Back to The Ukraine

[Chris]

Av, this might sound a bit trite, but, if it wasn't meant to be, it wasn't meant to be. When you're ready, get out there and try again. 

Sorry to hear that AV, like DS says, there is one for you out there somewhere. I had a long term a relationship with a UL and even brought her over to the UK for extended periods of time a couple of times, but it wasn't to be, and there was only a 3 year age gap between us. But if that had worked out I would never have met my now wife.

[Vinnvinny]

In the end she was afraid of the age difference in 10 years time.

I normally tell them that typically my marriages don't last that long so don't worry about it.

[AvHdB]

In the end she was afraid of the age difference in 10 years time.

I normally tell them that typically my marriages don't last that long so don't worry about it.

Thanks V man, from the disappointed, down, depressed, dreamer, dippy, dyslexic, dubious, dysfunctional, dumb Dutchman. A

[rosco]

In the end she was afraid of the age difference in 10 years time.

I normally tell them that typically my marriages don't last that long so don't worry about it.

   I heard you like an 18 month cycle before a trade in?!

[Vinnvinny]

In the end she was afraid of the age difference in 10 years time.

I normally tell them that typically my marriages don't last that long so don't worry about it.

   I heard you like an 18 month cycle before a trade in?!

Whoever told you that was talking BS. I don't even have a bike!!! 

[vendelo]

In the end she was afraid of the age difference in 10 years time.

Please excuse my curiosity, can you disclose the age difference?

You both seemed age-compatible in the photos (unless I had mistaken the photos were with another woman).

[AvHdB]

In the end she was afraid of the age difference in 10 years time.

Please excuse my curiosity, can you disclose the age difference?

You both seemed age-compatible in the photos (unless I had mistaken the photos were with another woman).

Depending on the day 18 years and two days difference max. From her best friend and a couple others, the local translator and a friend in Zhytomyr as well as my friends everyone thought we looked good together.

Bare in mind she is looking into the future. Time will tell,

[missAmeno]

Av, the last thing I want is to rub salt in the wound, but I read your letter (the one special K replied) and I cant get rid of the thought its wasnt about age difference.
You said she will have to make choice one day, she felt its unfair on you her unclear position and she must make choice now ... but she is not ready to make choice due to her situation (daughter, family, ex - the things you brought up in your letter) and she have no idea who or where she should be in 5 -10 years. She simply can not make choice now (due to past baggage perhaps) that will determine who and where she should be or how she should/will feel in few years. Note that in her letter she said "И наша разница в возрасте это одна из причин".
And to top that up she genuinly cares for you, she knows you want relationship that would give stability and clear understanding of where things would be in 5-10 years and she knows/feels she cant give it to you. She put what you need above of what she wants.

[chelseaboy]

Av,

   Thanks for this thread.

Really sorry it didn't work out.

You look in good shape,seem a decent,smart guy,and you're clearly not short of a few bob,so if you still haven't found someone,it just shows how difficult this venture is.

I've noticed some of the other members are having more success outside of Ukraine.

I don't know if you've looked in other FSU countries,but if not,maybe that's an avenue to consider.Maybe the girls/women are less flaky elsewhere ?

All the best in whatever you decide to do next 

[AvHdB]

Oh well she was a red head and under the sign of Taurus so perhaps for the better.

That's some serious logic there 
[/quote]

Back in Kiev. The sun rises over the Dnieper and with the balcony I have a view from far in the North to to the East over to South South West. Pretty amazing.

I met A1 yesterday - told her to meet me at TGIF's.  Will be there between 3 and 3:30. After the earlier debacle I thought best to tell via SMS her that I am at a different apartment in Kiev and will come to her. Told her I am near St. Sophia’s so she goes there instead of staying at TGIF’s.

Anyways we did meet and talked for three hours she is sweet but in fact boring. Not at all active, likes to go to the park and feed the birds. Well interesting was her music knowledge, from Gregorian chants to New York Minimalism. Her favourite composer as mine is J. S. Bach ~ but that is not enough to build a relationship on.

[AvHdB]

Will write up the last 36 hours latter on. I am curious to have feed back and thoughts on the following.

For a long time (over a year) I have spoken via Skype with a woman aged 29 with a young son divorced from south of Moscow. Z car I will call her. Intelligent and most of the conversation was typing back and forth in English and on the weekends on occasion with video and voice. But her home computer was often a slow connection and we sacrificed one option voice or video. She comes across as intelligent, working as an accountant and raising her son.

At one point long ago she indicated that she was going back to see her family and the trip from I believe was after arriving in Almaty was a couple more hours. OK a Russian woman from the Stan's?

I was impressed with her warmth and sincerity. In fact she was a woman that initiated contact with me via Love Planet. Earlier this year I asked permission from both her and another poster here if they wanted to be in contact. They agreed but the ether friendship never developed for different reasons. But both were impressed with the other.

When things went south with Special K, I asked Z car if she would still be interested in meeting me? I suggested meeting on short notice in Kiev. She thought the idea was interesting and I offered to pay her trip costs here. She politely declined. But agreed to meet me this weekend in Kiev.

About two weeks ago she admitted that she was nervous - I told her the same and suggested that we should keep on breathing. But than the admission while she is studying English she in fact primarily uses Prompt and Google! While some here may disagree my English usage is all right and I think I would have seen the mistakes that a computer translation will generate. (I certainly see Andrew's)

OK some questions and a little yellow flag went up slowing the pursuit car of Z car.

But just before I left for Amsterdam came the following admission that her brothers, father and uncles will be seriously annoyed with her and murderously angry with me. I was surprised . . .

I thought about this and than asked how she felt about different ethnicities. She was very accommodating and open. I asked about religions, she explained she was agnostic or non-religious. I explained that I was a garden variety Protestant Christian. I believed the basic claims of Christ. I joked I often fell short of the Glory of God and told her I pray with out ceasing and sin boldly. Well I get half of that correct most of the time.

Z car told me she was raised a Muslim.

OK I must admit I have Muslim, Buddhist, and Hindu acquaintances some are even friends. Further I have an ex-brother in law who is Muslim but to marry my ex's sister in law converted to Christianity three daughters latter her divorced and reaffirmed his Muslim beliefs. I see even being raised in Washington D.C. the very strong Muslim influence in the daughters. More important I think the upbringing and greater milieu that some one was raised in influences there out look and approach.

While one acquaintance has said lock all my funds away I am concerned about other issues and nightmare scenarios. Am I seeing a monster when in fact this woman is like most of humanity looking for a partner and husband? Is Z car some one looking for love and a man to help raise her son as best as is possible? OK of more concern what would happen if she made false accusations. Yesterday and Wednesday after the red head I have worked with a translator friend of Yuliya and while cute I wonder if she is a good enough a read of people.

Part of me thinks damn the worries and part of me knows that there could be problems in The States should the entire picture come out. Both Yuliya and Lena who I had dinner with tonight were very worried.

So what are the opinions and advice of the readers? I have searched quickly on RUA but see no comparable travel reports but some senior members maybe able to point a thread that touches on this. Certainly we have posters (male) who come from a Muslim background and they might be able to add wisdom.

[Halo]

It depends on where she is from.  Some Muslim republics in former times were worse than others, and some are now more "Muslim" than others.  If you don't want to post it, PM me.

I'll ask hubby when he is home.   He travelled extensively through all Soviet republics, and served and worked with people from all Soviet republics.  We also know a fair number of people from various Muslim areas of the FSU.

[AvHdB]

It depends on where she is from.  Some Muslim republics in former times were worse than others, and some are now more "Muslim" than others.  If you don't want to post it, PM me.

I'll ask hubby when he is home.   He travelled extensively through all Soviet republics, and served and worked with people from all Soviet republics.  We also know a fair number of people from various Muslim areas of the FSU.

Good question, I am not 100 certain. I assumed Kazakhstan, but in that she had to travel southwards it could be Kyrgyzstan.

I assume in that she was raised as a Muslim she had less opportunities to those who were considered Russians in the former Soviet Union. Going back to my relationship with a woman who was Tatar she indicated that discrimination not with standing graduating at the top of her University in Moscow was alive and well in the Soviet Union. She and her family had been for generations Orthodox, but she was seen as Tartar and not Russian.

[Halo]

That makes a difference.

[AvHdB]

I am now more confused she is in fact from Dagestan.

[NS1]

AvHdb, I have to give you credit, you seem to find the challenges in your searches for the right lady.
Always and informative and learning read.

I have to admit, i am likely some levels of the same as you with religion.
Nut sure I could do the Muslim or Agnostic way of thinking!

Good luck with your trip

[Halo]

I am now more confused she is in fact from Dagestan.

Ah, not really one of the "stans".

OK, Dagestan is in the Caucasus, and is within the Russian Federation.

Dagestanis are clan oriented, and Dagistan is multi ethnic, with little intermarriage.  It is also where Sufi Islam took hold in the Caucasus.

Dagestan is patriarchal, and, in his highly non PC manner, the better half says "Are you crazy?  They still have blood feuds there.  It is easy to wind them up over nothing."

Dagestani men, yes, do hold female virtue, honour, and vengeance as important.  So, that's what she meant.  I suggest that if you meet her, and want to guarantee you leave Ukraine with all your parts intact, keep them off her.

[TomT]

It you don't mind dying for this girl, you can visit her hometown. Otherwise, your plan to meet in K'yiv has merit.

[Millaa]

Shes from Dagestan but living in Moscow? depends on family shes from... Not too many dagestan fathers let their daughters to marry stranger from other country-religion... not too many women will go across family decision...

[AvHdB]

Thanks for the opinions. 

OK to try to continue this story on Wednesday after the time with the red head who was a Taurus. I met with a friend and assistant to Yuliya. Valia (Valentine) was amusing and one could almost say anti-Ukraine. Comfortable blue jeans and a loose top and flat sandals. Her long brown hair was a mess and she wore no jewelry or make up. In fact she looked like the Tom boy next door, just not yet able to drive. *

She had an infectious smile and bright brown eyes.

We made pleasantries and I decided to find out what sort of child I was with. I was hungry and close to my hotel was Monaco. So there we ate. In fact her English was quite good and she seemed clever. I asked what sort of wine she liked and she replied, “good and please explain why it was so.”

I told her that Yuliya was one of my best friends but completely crazy but I valued her thoughts and opinions.

I ordered a Tavel and we talked about what I was trying to do. She was surprised and said “OK, now for something completely different” I asked about her English and she spent four months in England on a work school visa and another three months in the United States on the beach in the first state selling trinkets to tourists on the boardwalk. An interesting aside was her insights into the differences of American’s and the English, which sum up as follows:

The English never smile and she wondered if they ever thought. The American’s smile all the time but it is hard to know if they are thinking. **

I liked her ~ she was direct and honest so we agreed to meet up the next day, Thursday at 10 am. 

AvHdB

*    TomT, I am not speaking of you and I assume you are not offended.

**    I realize from my running notes this will be a trip of insights.

[Halo]

As Dagestan was recently mentioned, I thought I'd post a link on a bombing there today -

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2012/05/05/news/foreign/blasts-kill-14-in-caucasus-ahead-of-putin%E2%80%99s-kremlin-return/

[nicknick]

I am now more confused she is in fact from Dagestan.

As Dagestan was recently mentioned, I thought I'd post a link on a bombing there today -

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2012/05/05/news/foreign/blasts-kill-14-in-caucasus-ahead-of-putin%E2%80%99s-kremlin-return/

Mendy recently did an interesting thread on Dagestan and there was also a BBC Radio programme on how dangerous life is there:-

There was an interesting programme on Radio 4 last week about Dagestan in the series called ''Crossing Continents''

The programme is 30 mins long and it's available to download as a podcast from here:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/cc

Roubles and Radicals in Dagestan 24 Nov 11

Duration: 29 mins

Russian businessman Suleiman Kerimov has pumped a fortune into Dagestani football and is bankrolling projects across this restive republic. Can his roubles end the insurgency?

There is a direct link to the download here:-

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/cc/cc_20111124-1125a.mp3
(Right click and ''save target as/link as'')

[AvHdB]

Z car is having a shower - everything is OK - the confusion came from that her sister is living near Almaty and she went there recently.

Will write more when time allows we need sleep but want to talk more - we walked 15 odd kilometers in Kiev today.

[Donhollio]

Valia (Valentine) was amusing and one could almost say anti-Ukraine. Comfortable blue jeans and a loose top and flat sandals. Her long brown hair was a mess and she wore no jewelry or make up. In fact she looked like the Tom boy next door, just not yet able to drive.

   Maybe its just me, but it seems you may be a fan of Mr. Peterman from Seinfeld.

 As for the families hatred of you meeting the girl, I say go for it! The thrill of walking on the edge with some crazy double standard family members threatening violence, has me living vicariously through you!   It goes without saying if you have sex with her during your initial visit, ya gotta hit the homeland and.... 

[AvHdB]

As for the families hatred of you meeting the girl, I say go for it! The thrill of walking on the edge with some crazy double standard family members threatening violence, has me living vicariously through you!   It goes without saying if you have sex with her during your initial visit, ya gotta hit the homeland and.... 

Was thinking of that Warren Zevon song, Send Lawyers, Drugs and Money. But I did not plug in so all is quiet along the Dnieper as the sun rises.