Freaked out with a long way to go.

[Still_Water]

The marriage is doomed as much and for as many reasons as those of the original posters dysfunctions; than those the poster alleges his 'wife' has.

Ive not listed any dysfunctions.
Ive merrily stated that by all appearances ive married someone who met me and realized her mistake and tried to make the best of it the first 2 or 3 weeks.

or, ive married someone who is unable to produce very much human romantic normalcy and cant even understand my point of view as she thinks that no touching, no kissing, no hugging , no "hello and good morning", and desiring to stay in her room with the cat vs come into our room and just talk and be together, = normal.

or ive married someone who is having the best time finding out just how much destruction she can bring to an American's life by bringing him here just to toy with his mind and with his emotions as some sort of twisted game.

or, ive married a nut.

or, its just a cultural glitch that im misread as something "wrong".

or, i just have no clue

[MBS01]

Still Water:
I just took time to read most of this thread today, soon I have been spending time with my in-laws who are visiting from the FSU and not reading here much these last few days.

To me it is not what you wrote, but what is missing from your writing.  Many here say you should not fall in love with a photo, yet if I understand it the two of you fell in love with 5 years of emails and photos, etc.  Why if you both were looking for love did it take 5 years for one or both of you to even get on a plane and visit?   Were you both broke and unable to even pay for airfare or what?  Did either of you have any thoughts or plans for a future married life and not just a sex life?  Where would you live?  How would you earn a living and create a welcoming and cosy homelife?  Sharing a room in a flat might work for a couple 20 somethings still attending college, but the two of you are much older so how exactly did both or either of you expect to support yourselves and a future family?

Seems after 5 years of so called communications you did not even know each other when you finally agreed to meet and then quickly rushed into marriage.

As to being in a strange country and not being out on your own I do not understand this at all.  During my early adventures in both Russia and Ukraine I was out and about on my own at various times and never got lost and managed to find my way back too.  Again the writing and language in the FSU is entirely different from that in the west yet I expect I was not alone in managing to navigate strange cities and places on my own, something you say you were unable to do.  Why?

Again from what I have read for a couple in their 30's and 40's is seems that neither of you are ready for married life and should quickly move towards divorce if you are unable to discuss and find a way out of what seems to indicate a very poor relationship and sub normal lifestyle for a couple. 

Also if you were online for 5 years and she had a very close boyfriend for 2 of those years on what you state is a very intimate level, why on earth did you fly to meet her and get married knowing this?  That seems very strange indeed.

So good luck as both of you likely need it!

[Boris]

You have still not aswered the question as to your location. Your incoherent ramblings do not allow any solid advice to be given. But from what you have told us two possibilities for her behavior come to mind. First, she is not attracted to you. Second, she does not respect you. Time to go home if you are in fact in Isreal. As Manny advised do not import her to the US. Your problems will multiply tenfold.

[TomT]

I can't imagine voluntarily delaying a first meeting for five years. Even more, I can't imagine thinking that you know someone based on virtual togetherness. You don't have a clue that everything that you thought that you know about your wife was disconnected with reality. Now, reality is kicking you in the ass and you are wondering why your wife doesn't match your construct of her. You are wondering what is wrong with Russian women in general and your wife in particular but your relationship problems are mostly about your stubborn delusions, with some contribution by your wife's cool nature.


Ruby from "Cold Mountain":

"Every piece of this is a man's bullshit. They call this a war a cloud over the land, but they made the weather.
Then they stand in the rain and say: 'shit! It's raining!' "

[TomT]

Also if you were online for 5 years and she had a very close boyfriend for 2 of those years on what you state is a very intimate level, why on earth did you fly to meet her and get married knowing this?  That seems very strange indeed.

The very intimate relationship with the former boyfriend suggests that she is capable it.

[mendeleyev]

Up-thread it seems that she is a Russian/Jewish girl who lives in a room of the flat belonging to her parents.

So, since then, i became really sensitized to this reality., and last weekend we were in church. About 4 rows in front, there is a tall brown headed boy, who is really enjoying the worship music. He is sort of dancing in his own way, and i see that my wife is fixated. So, naturally, i get offended, and later, i asked her about this, and she admitted she was "fascinated" by his dancing...."but not in the way you think".....So, i pointed out that starting at any male, >staring<, while with her husband, or BF, is very offensive. Her response is that........."everybody looks".......and that "she does not care if i look".

(bold added)

I look at your rambling above and wonder if:

- you're lying and have accidentally constructed a scene that simply couldn't fit the story. Russian Jews immigrated to Israel in order to enjoy freedom and practice their faith. So really, a Jewish girl going to church?

- or, the girl is giving the marriage more effort than you are willing to admit, attending church with you in spite of being Jewish?

Strange that you'd write about her refusing to go with you to the beach but admit that she is willing to go along with you to church.

Well, before you become too self righteous, just realize that this is a blind public forum..ive named no names, ive given no address, ive posted no pics.
im am simply a voice without a face who is listing undiscoverable events.
so, its no harm and no foul. Its perfectly acceptable to discuss what im discussing, the way im discussing it. Its incognito, and its harmless, and probably its the most entertainment value, in a strange way, that has come to this forum in a while.

(bold added)

First off, no it is not okay. Again, not something a MAN does. What happens in the bedroom stays in the bedroom.

Secondly, are you a "long time reader, first time writer" or as many suspect, a troll?

[Halo]

Up-thread it seems that she is a Russian/Jewish girl who lives in a room of the flat belonging to her parents.

So, since then, i became really sensitized to this reality., and last weekend we were in church. About 4 rows in front, there is a tall brown headed boy, who is really enjoying the worship music. He is sort of dancing in his own way, and i see that my wife is fixated. So, naturally, i get offended, and later, i asked her about this, and she admitted she was "fascinated" by his dancing...."but not in the way you think".....So, i pointed out that starting at any male, >staring<, while with her husband, or BF, is very offensive. Her response is that........."everybody looks".......and that "she does not care if i look".

(bold added)

I look at your rambling above and wonder if:

- you're lying and have accidentally constructed a scene that simply couldn't fit the story. Russian Jews immigrated to Israel in order to enjoy freedom and practice their faith. So really, a Jewish girl going to church?

- or, the girl is giving the marriage more effort than you are willing to admit, attending church with you in spite of being Jewish?

Strange that you'd write about her refusing to go with you to the beach but admit that she is willing to go along with you to church.

There actually is a sizable non Jewish Russian speaking community in Israel.  One Jew in the family, and the whole family emigrates.  There have been a lot of reports on how their insistence on eating pork and salo (pig fat) has driven rabbis to distraction. 

Not to discount your observation, but in my experience, some individuals do not really distinguish, in description, between a church or a synagogue/temple.  Most Jews I know would say they went to temple, not to "the synagogue".

I recommend deleting the entire thread.  Quite sure this guy is a troll.

No good comes from deleting threads/comments by such a subjective determination.

[rosco]

I've taken time to read this thread and being a forum member for around 4 months, its quite frankly the most bizarre discussion I've come across yet. I'm unsure whether your wife is crazy, your crazy or the whole thing is a wind up. However, assuming your in Israel suffering this ordeal, I'll give you my thoughts. I'll also give you the benefit of the doubt regarding your posts, but your ramblings about sex in graphic detail feature unnaturally too often...I'm no prude and this isn't normal regardless of the circumstances.

In short, tie up the loose ends, get an amicable divorce asap and go home to rebuild your life. Suffer the heart ache and head  no more and get on with your life before you regret dragging your heels. Not easy I'm sure if your emotionally attached, but from the unattached point of view, the situation appears irrecoverable. If all is how you describe, your wife either has issues/problems she won't share with you, which doesn't bode well for a healthy marriage or she simply doesn't love you and doesn't know how to handle the situation she's found herself in.

I'm assuming your in a bad place and emotionally fragile, but look around you, look at the bare facts and look at the quality of your life - grasp the nettle and do what you have to do. In my limited experience, I can't comment on marriage or how relationships change after the vows, but I've found FSU girls to be like any other. Yes, there will be some subtle differences in values here and there but her actions as you describe can't be stereotyped.

You may find this harsh but I'm sure the other guys will agree, sort out the mess, go home and get on with your life.

[Steamer]

Everything that she does for me, .the feeling is........."lets get this over with".

I don't know you but I feel the same way.

[2tallbill]

Bill,

thx for the response.
i appreciate the fact that you took the time to be thoughtful.

i wish i could say that talking will help.
i wish i could say that i have not tried to talk this issue into submission.
however, she does not want to talk about it, as she feels that talking about an issue that is causing friction is "arguing", and so, she will not talk to me about it.
that is why im talking so much here.

and calming down is difficult at this point, as im isolated in this room which feels now like a prison in the middle of Mars.

You are going through major culture shock. Buy eggs, bread and have
a normal breakfast. You can eat the garbanzo beans, olive oil and
experimental stuff for the other meals.

Ok, here are the options as I see it.

1. Calm down and INSIST that she talk to you about everything. Be calm, be firm.
2. Divorce her and leave.

[Paul]

Still_water, may I ask you, are you in Israel now? Or must you use a proxy for some reason?

This hasn't been answered.

Still_Waiting

[Bruce Lee]

Still_water, may I ask you, are you in Israel now? Or must you use a proxy for some reason?

The simplest and most obvious reason being he's a troll and has seen just how easy it is to generate lengths of pages on this forum with a good old juicy train wreak story either that or he's writing a soft-core porn novel and fishing for ideas. Anyway, I'm surprised its only 5 pages so far

In the outside chance this is actually a true story I apologize ahead of time!

[leslied]

Walks like a duck?  Quacks like a duck??  Is a duck!

[ChrisE]

Wonder why JC hasn't commented yet? Because I would bet it is JC who probably wrote this! I think it was the troll comment made this observation come to mind.

[Still_Water]

we met online in the summer of 2006.
we decided to meet eventually, but we wanted to take it slow, build a friendship/love online.
so, we did this for 5 years.
starting in 2009 we became serious about meeting, and planned it, but didnt meet till 2011.

There is taking it slow and then there is dead stop, why did it take so long (5 years) before you actually flew out to Israel to meet this lady. No matter how I try and see your point of view here, I cannot fathom out how anyone would wait 5 years to meet a lady of their affections in person 

it was a 2-fold situation..
one, i was recovering from an auto-immune disorder.
by about the end of 2009 i was much better, but i was waiting to make sure i was well before i left the country.
i had to be sure i was going into this relationship with good health, as i knew that it would be such a change for me to invest my life into marrying a culturally different person, as well as leaving my country to live in hers.
So, i knew that this.......^^^^^^^^^ would be some incredible stress the first few months, and unfortunately my health issue tends to flair when im under extreme stress..
So, i was making sure all my systems were "go" before i went..

and also,
she is a nurse.
so, she understood the waiting, and so, was very patient.

and also,
was trying to sell a house.
this is not the best last few years to be trying to do it...

so, all of the above caused at least 2 years delay.
i regret this, but, i had to deal with these 2 issues before i could leave and feel that all my loose ends were tied together.

[Still_Water]

I fail to see how two people can talk to each other as much as you say you two have, and for so long, and not be able to figure out that you don't actually like each other.

Its not a question of like.
It is a question of lifestyle that was not understood until i met this girl.

I think that most american men are use to women who are affectionate.
Dont you agree that this is a fact?
We are use to women that LIKE to kiss and hug, ...and who LIKE to come home to their man and give him a sweet greeting..
Just simple things like this..............American males are use to it..
We are use to a woman making a bit of a fuss over us....
"can i get yo u some tea".
"how was your day".
"did you sleep well".

just simple affection.

and this girl does not have a clue.
not....................a .........................clue.

she seems to only understand being pushed unto her back and undressed.
But simple things like holding hands, or just touching,.........she is clueless.

And so, its taken me a while to try to believe that anyone, any girl, could not understand what romance and affection is all about., and when i was not getting any, i began to think that she just didnt want to be with me,........that there is just no spark.
However, im not sure about this, even till today,.........and the reason i came here, is because i felt that there were some Men here who were married to Russian women, who would say........."well, yeah, Russian girls are a bit different then US girls, in that they are not very touchy feely, and dont tend to really compliment the man, or even seem to need any affection other then just "here i am when you want sex".

This girl has no idea how to even say ...."thank you".
I'll give you an example.
We were in Tel Aviv in the mall and i took her to a few shops and bought her some very pretty earrings.
spent some change.
Did she say thank you?
nope.
So, later, i pointed this out, and of course she became offended.
But that is backwards, as im the one that bought the jewelry and was not even given a kiss or a thank you.
And last night.
I took her shopping for shoes.
Actually we went for me, but i could not find any, and she saw some that she liked and i bought them of course.
So, we leave, and do i get a thank you?
hahahahahah.
so, i stopped her in the street, and finally said.........."you need to say THANK YOU".
So she did.
But that is not how it should be.
So, this girl just has no idea how to behave.........she has no clue.
And she is so smart, so intelligent, , but regarding manners, she cant find her way out of the dark.

So, after i became offended at the fact that i was getting no affection, just sort of bored sex and then not much else, i thought that i had made a mistake.
I guess the fact that i had the idea, based on how this girl talked about her last relationship........that she and the fella were very close, and spent all their free time together.
And based on this, and how she gave clues regarding their sex life.............i began to compare what i knew to what i was getting, and from there the serious arguments started.
And because she is a Russian, ...........apparently she has a real issue with talking about the really personal stuff in her past, and even resents or becomes frustrated with a man that would seek to find out details that could at least set my mind at ease.


For example.

She absolutely didnt want to sleep with me at night in the same room or in the same bed.
This started the 4th day i was here.
And i had no idea she would feel this way, and so the night she just looked at me with no emotion and said........."ok, im going into the small room to sleep"..
And im like........"WHAT"?
So, it was not only that she was going to go to another room at night, it was that she didnt even try to discuss it with me, or explain it....it was just a cut and dried decision that she made and sprung on me.
And THAT is one of the issues i have with this girl, in that she makes a decision that affects our relationship, and instead of taking a few mins to explain her reason or reasoning, she just informs me of the plan.
And THAT does not work for me.
I have to know WHY someone just decides out of the blue that we can no longer be in the same room at night.
And what man would not react the same?

So, as she began doing these things...........not sleeping in the room, or, suddenly needing to have a lot of alone time.........i started simply saying that if she didnt do it to her last BF, she was not going to treat me this way, especially after i married her, and he didnt, and i flew 5000 miles and left my country to be with her.
So, these 2 issues became a shouting match for about 4 weeks, which led to the rest of the issues., of which this dead sex act she has been giving me, is another of my issues.
Coz i know she was not doing this with her last BF.

Now, im not trying to get her to tell me what she was doing with the last BF.
All i was trying to get her to SEE, and to UNDERSTAND, was that i was being treated with less love, treated to less sex, and in general being left isolated, in a way she never did this with him, and im not going to have it.
And has there been a war since i told her this?
You cant imagine.
But, i mean what i say.
I didnt come her to be treated as if im some damn roommate.
Im her husband, and i have rights, and most especially im not going to be left knowing that im getting less of her in all ways then that last BF had access to....
So, she can ither love me, and treat me with respect and affection,....in the same regard that she gave the last BF, or she can find one of you here to ignore., coz i wont be ignored and i wont be left stuck in a situation that is easily resolved if she will just take the time and effort to make me feel loved.
I do it for her, and she is going to do it for me.
If not, ...."ciao".

There are a lot of nice women in this world who would love to have a man who is kind, attentive, cooks, cleans, cares, and gives great lovemaking.
I am very good at relationships, and im faithful...
So, if this girl wants to end up with some lying, 2-timing, binge drinking, money chasing tool, who thinks that women are good for nothing but slavery, then she is going to realize way too late exactly what she married, mistreated, and lost.

[Still_Water]

 

[Vinnvinny]

There are a lot of nice women in this world who would love to have a man who is kind, attentive, cooks, cleans, cares, and gives great lovemaking.

Agreed. So run at past us again, why did you marry this one? 

[Still_Water]

Also if you were online for 5 years and she had a very close boyfriend for 2 of those years on what you state is a very intimate level, why on earth did you fly to meet her and get married knowing this?  That seems very strange indeed.

The very intimate relationship with the former boyfriend suggests that she is capable it.

I think she was capable of a lot of things with the last BF.
He was sort of her idea of a knight in shining armor.
And whats more, ....i think that what has happened to this girl, is that she is just sort of sexually worn out.
I think this last BF mounted her so much, and required so much satisfaction, that at some point in their 2 years of sex frenzy, she just burned out a clutch, and became just a sort of servant.
And that is why with me, her sex is exactly like a girl who is worn beyond her ability to ever treat sex as fresh or new or magical.
For her, as she was so ridden and used, ..that even at 27, she was sort of turned into nothing but a girl that now only has sex as a chore.
Even after 5 years of no sex......and even with a man who is brand new to her and has taken so much time with her trying to give her a LOT of satisfaction.
Im a good lover, and i know how to please a woman, and this girl, .........u just cant please her, as no matter what you do, she has been there and done that so many times, that its all just sort of dull.
That is what i found., and that is what i have tried to comprehend.., and it been a real Mind  to deal with it, and not take it very personally.
She absolutely does not have sex as a girl that likes it a lot............but rather as a ......"well, its time to take care of him, coz here he is again".
So, i think that last BF, who was about 18, absolutely rode this girl into a worn out place where she now just has no joy in sex with anyone she loves or loves her.
And so, i was taking this personally, but in fact, she is just used up..............this can happen.
And this is why she gave me the lecture recently about........"so how do you like MARRIAGE SEX".
Its because to her, ...after having to service this last BF in such a continual and continuous regard, she is now unable to have any type of freshness to her lovemaking, as she was worn into a place by him, that sex became sort of a chore and a burden.

This is sad, as she is only 33, and im only her 4th BF.

That last BF must have been one continual erection.
Apparently.

[ECR844]

Have you ever considered the possibility that your woman requires other elements of the realtionship to be more fulfilling, satisfying, and stable in order to enjoy having an intimate relationship with you?

[Vinnvinny]

So, i think that last BF, who was about 18, absolutely rode this girl into a worn out place where she now just has no joy in sex with anyone she loves or loves her.

"? That would explain a lot.

[Still_Water]

Still Water:
I just took time to read most of this thread today, soon I have been spending time with my in-laws who are visiting from the FSU and not reading here much these last few days.

To me it is not what you wrote, but what is missing from your writing.  Many here say you should not fall in love with a photo, yet if I understand it the two of you fell in love with 5 years of emails and photos, etc.  Why if you both were looking for love did it take 5 years for one or both of you to even get on a plane and visit?   Were you both broke and unable to even pay for airfare or what?  Did either of you have any thoughts or plans for a future married life and not just a sex life?  Where would you live?  How would you earn a living and create a welcoming and cosy homelife?  Sharing a room in a flat might work for a couple 20 somethings still attending college, but the two of you are much older so how exactly did both or either of you expect to support yourselves and a future family?

Seems after 5 years of so called communications you did not even know each other when you finally agreed to meet and then quickly rushed into marriage.

As to being in a strange country and not being out on your own I do not understand this at all.  During my early adventures in both Russia and Ukraine I was out and about on my own at various times and never got lost and managed to find my way back too.  Again the writing and language in the FSU is entirely different from that in the west yet I expect I was not alone in managing to navigate strange cities and places on my own, something you say you were unable to do.  Why?

Again from what I have read for a couple in their 30's and 40's is seems that neither of you are ready for married life and should quickly move towards divorce if you are unable to discuss and find a way out of what seems to indicate a very poor relationship and sub normal lifestyle for a couple. 

Also if you were online for 5 years and she had a very close boyfriend for 2 of those years on what you state is a very intimate level, why on earth did you fly to meet her and get married knowing this?  That seems very strange indeed.

So good luck as both of you likely need it!

Hi,

thanx.

actually, everything about the relationship regarding where we will live, and how we will survive, was solved years ago.
Money has been saved to buy a home, and both of us are skilled professionals.
Once she is allowed to come to the USA legally, the easy part will begin.
What is difficult is trying to understand how a person could be so unlike how they described themselves..
She is nothing at all as she said.

and i can promise  you that i am exactly as she imagined.
i told her exactly what i would expect, what i would require, and how i am.
And i have performed my role exactly as i said, and she would agree.

But for her part.
The one thing that she always told me was that in life she was very affectionate..
But, she's not.
She is sort of in her own world, and sometimes she can focus on me, but mostly that is if im pointing out that she isnt.

Of course reading about my issue on a forum is very 2D.
Its impossible for me to write enough details so that any reader can fully fathom what is going on here.

I'll tell you something that is just nutz.
I was so starved for affection by the 5th week i was here, that one night i opened the door to find her grabbing her cat and hugging him as if he is the husband.
I was just staring at this girl holding and hugging this cat,........and this is the same girl who tells me........"well, i dont really know how to be affectionate".
So, i pointed out that she can love a cat in the exact way she cant love her husband.
But its a fact.
This girl has exactly the right approach to affection, as long as its the cat.

Bizarre..

Bizarre and of course, frustrating.
Frustrating to find that my wife can cuddle with a damn cat, but has no clue how or why to do this with her husband.
GeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeZ

[Paul]

Still_Water, if you and your wife are for real  ... your wife probably doesn't want to be affectionate with you because she knows that you will tell the whole god damned world about it. You're lucky I do not own this message board, you would have been gone after your first post.

[Still_Water]

You have still not aswered the question as to your location. Your incoherent ramblings do not allow any solid advice to be given. But from what you have told us two possibilities for her behavior come to mind. First, she is not attracted to you. Second, she does not respect you. Time to go home if you are in fact in Isreal. As Manny advised do not import her to the US. Your problems will multiply tenfold.

Hi,
im in Israel, as i posted.

2nd, nothing about my posts are incoherent, nor do they ramble.

Ive stated, simply, that this girl has no normal affection, and ive tried to understand it, and deal.
however, i dont want to deal, i want to have a normal love life.
And for some reason, "normal" to this girl means, separate beds, separate rooms, ...lots of time alone, never sharing a meal, ...
in other words, ...........im married to a roommate, and this seems to be her idea of love.
Its not mine.

My idea of love is very simple.
She becomes my world, and i become hers.
We are one with no place for a "single" mindset.

[rosco]

Also if you were online for 5 years and she had a very close boyfriend for 2 of those years on what you state is a very intimate level, why on earth did you fly to meet her and get married knowing this?  That seems very strange indeed.

The very intimate relationship with the former boyfriend suggests that she is capable it.

I think she was capable of a lot of things with the last BF.
He was sort of her idea of a knight in shining armor.
And whats more, ....i think that what has happened to this girl, is that she is just sort of sexually worn out.
I think this last BF mounted her so much, and required so much satisfaction, that at some point in their 2 years of sex frenzy, she just burned out a clutch, and became just a sort of servant.
And that is why with me, her sex is exactly like a girl who is worn beyond her ability to ever treat sex as fresh or new or magical.
For her, as she was so ridden and used, ..that even at 27, she was sort of turned into nothing but a girl that now only has sex as a chore.
Even after 5 years of no sex......and even with a man who is brand new to her and has taken so much time with her trying to give her a LOT of satisfaction.
Im a good lover, and i know how to please a woman, and this girl, .........u just cant please her, as no matter what you do, she has been there and done that so many times, that its all just sort of dull.
That is what i found., and that is what i have tried to comprehend.., and it been a real Mind  to deal with it, and not take it very personally.
She absolutely does not have sex as a girl that likes it a lot............but rather as a ......"well, its time to take care of him, coz here he is again".
So, i think that last BF, who was about 18, absolutely rode this girl into a worn out place where she now just has no joy in sex with anyone she loves or loves her.
And so, i was taking this personally, but in fact, she is just used up..............this can happen.
And this is why she gave me the lecture recently about........"so how do you like MARRIAGE SEX".
Its because to her, ...after having to service this last BF in such a continual and continuous regard, she is now unable to have any type of freshness to her lovemaking, as she was worn into a place by him, that sex became sort of a chore and a burden.

This is sad, as she is only 33, and im only her 4th BF.

That last BF must have been one continual erection.
Apparently.

Nice rant. 

That's a fairly unhealthy view you've taken on your beloved wife and there's every chance she would call it different given a chance. Guys love to go on the ego trip and claim penis size, previous boyfriends, sexual satisfaction etc but it seldom ever is with most women. Sounds like she may have other problems or as has already been suggested, she's simply made a mistake and not into you. Don't be stubborn, accept it, see if you can talk it through rationally with our accusing her of anything on a sexual level and if all fails, walk away and start over. Life's short so don't waste it here and go find a woman who will make you happy.

Sounds like its game over to me, we're not talking about disagreements over who's side of the bed it is?!