Why do you make it so hard on ourself?

[TomT]

I would not presume to speak for the others...

Edit to write: I have to run. (Literally.)

[KenC]

Uh...because we are so hard, ourselves? 

Seriously, as was mentioned earlier, being with a woman without English skills is a huge competitive advantage since the majority of WM will want nothing to do with her (other than sex, of course).

Another oft-overlooked advantage is that the patience and effort required to establish communication speaks volumes about the character of both partners. It bodes well for the long-term future of the relationship.

Besides, the process of dealing with English-challenged girls becomes progressively easier with practice and it is a good learning tool for the men, also. To be certain that key words are understood, it is a good idea to confirm the meaning by saying them in Russian, as well as in English. After a while, one becomes quite familiar with spoken Russian and the issue of a girl's English becomes a moot point.

Tom,
Please keep in mind that I am trying to wordsmith my questions not to be insulting, OK?

Why do you need to seek such advantages in finding a woman?  Is it that you are so insecure in what it is you have to offer a woman?  that you need every advantage possible?

I agree that there most certainly are tons of great women in Russia with no English skills.  But you have to invest tons of time and energy just in order to find out if they are the least bit compatable with you.  I can only imagine walking down a lot of "dead ends" in such a search.  Unless of course, you are willing to roll the dice and hope for the best as some guys have done.  It just doesn't seem to be the most expeditious way to do things unless you need those additional advantages as mentioned above.
KenC

[TomT]

Since you mention it, I lean a bit in the direction of low self-esteem. Even so, my search is not limited to English-challenged girls.

[KenC]

Since you mention it, I lean a bit in the direction of low self-esteem. Even so, my search is not limited to English-challenged girls.

Tom,
I am truly sorry to hear that because RW can "smell" low self confidence from a mile away and are usually turned off by it.  The best preparation for this process may be a self help program to boost your self confidence like an Anthony Robbins or similar program.  Seriously, most RW want a "take charge" type of man.
KenC

[TomT]

Not to worry, even my psychotherapist says that I have done an excellent job of learning to compensate. 

[Turboguy]

Yep, that is totally true.   They want a take charge man and then they want to take charge of him 8)

[TomT]

I have observed that phenomenon, myself. Unfortunately (for them), I can smell manipulation even better than RW can smell low self-confidence. It is amusing to see them try, though.

[KenC]

Yep, that is totally true.   They want a take charge man and then they want to take charge of him 8)

Well, Turbo, That is a whole other issue too!!  But not far off from the truth!!  Maybe they just like the challenge, like taming a wild animal of sorts.   It is a paradox though, isn't it?  To be attracted to a confident "take charge" man and then spend the rest of the time trying to wrestle for the control!
KenC

[KenC]

I have observed that phenomenon, myself. Unfortunately (for them), I can smell manipulation even better than RW can smell low self-confidence. It is amusing to see them try, though.

Tom,
That is a very important trait to have for sure!  Good luck to you.
KenC

[DonA]

I have to say I agree that it is harder, but not impossible. I think your points should be etched in the minds of those in the beginning of this adventure.

OK now the flip side. I am one of those unbelievably lucky guys who met, engaged and married a lady who did not speak more then 20 words of English when we first met.

The first couple of days we would have a translator for a few hours and then we ditched her ( she was  witch anyway-different story for a different time-but let me say I did bring that dog to heal ).

We decided to go it alone more for the  most part. When things got a little jammed up We would get a translator on the cell phone. Yulia will tell you, as will i the best time we spent together was when we were alone. You will be amazed at the things that can be conveyed by facial expression and gestures. Of course you can't get technical like how to fix a transmission  , but you can get somethings across.


OK so that is us but please be aware that we,as a couple, are probably one of the most usual for many reasons. I do not want anyone to think that we way I went about this whole adventure is the way they should go. I could very well have been scammed and maybe ruined if Yulia was not the Lady that she is. The whole thing may have just as easily blown up in my face. I honestly believe with all my heart I experience a miracle with my Yulia. That is the only way I can describe it because it is the only way I can believe it.

But Marine makes some valid point that should be heeded.

Thanks,

DonAz

[Bobalouie]

I have to say I agree that it is harder, but not impossible. I think your points should be etched in the minds of those in the beginning of this adventure.

OK now the flip side. I am one of those unbelievably lucky guys who met, engaged and married a lady who did not speak more then 20 words of English when we first met.

The first couple of days we would have a translator for a few hours and then we ditched her ( she was  witch anyway-different story for a different time-but let me say I did bring that dog to heal ).

We decided to go it alone more for the  most part. When things got a little jammed up We would get a translator on the cell phone. Yulia will tell you, as will i the best time we spent together was when we were alone. You will be amazed at the things that can be conveyed by facial expression and gestures. Of course you can't get technical like how to fix a transmission  , but you can get somethings across.


OK so that is us but please be aware that we,as a couple, are probably one of the most usual for many reasons. I do not want anyone to think that we way I went about this whole adventure is the way they should go. I could very well have been scammed and maybe ruined if Yulia was not the Lady that she is. The whole thing may have just as easily blown up in my face. I honestly believe with all my heart I experience a miracle with my Yulia. That is the only way I can describe it because it is the only way I can believe it.

But Marine makes some valid point that should be heeded.

Thanks,

DonAz

I did the same exact thing, and it worked for me as well. My lady spoke more than 20 words, more like 50-100 but it still worked out, and I personally felt more at ease when the translator was not there, then when she was.  I dont know why, becasue Ira is a great translator, but I felt it was much easier without her.  Like Don however, if it had not been for my lady, it could have been a disaster.

[Corp]

One might ask; "why make it so hard on ourselves by even going all the way to the FSU in the first place" because certainly there are "some" nice, attractive woman where ever you live?

The simple reason is when a guy heads to the FSU, he will increase his odds of finding a good wife or getting scammed, many fold.

Q: What percentage of eligible RW are even listed on dating sites or even interested in meeting a foreign guy?
A: Fairly small, I would guess.

What percentage of those "Looking" speak enough English to satisfy Marines demand of English knowledge?

Of those how many have a computer?

It seems to me the pool of ladies to search from is getting pretty small and with each level of demand while the number of guys knocking on her door increases significantly!

I agree with Tom when I think he was saying; the more Russian you can speak, the less critical it is that she speak English from the start.

I believe there are two prevailing LAWS which increase or decrease a mans chance for success.
A. it's a numbers game.
B. The harder you are to please, the more difficult to find a match.
(Both A and B apply to the woman also)

[kyivtrip]

Hi everybody,
It is difficult, but very few things in Life are as important as your partner and I believe the extra effort is worth it.

My personal experience - please don't jump on me as if I am saying that my experience is the best way to do anything or that my experience is, somehow, "the book" on this issue.

My first trip, I had corresponded only through agencies.  I met 6 nice women with varying English skills and one that spoke German - which is my best second language.  I can say, unequivocally, that the quality of the woman did not necessarily relate to her level of English.  I tolerated interpreters only at the first meeting with a couple of the women, then we were on our own and I must say that it worked, generally.  I used my phrase book and my few words of Russian and they used their few words of English.  Only one spoke good English and she was a lot of fun, but was looking for a wealthy man.  She was from a wealthy family and had a nice car and a computer at home.
Often, I spoke to them in English and they spoke to me in Russian.  No problem doing a little sightseeing or going shopping, buying things and heading back to the apartment to cook dinner.  We were both motivated !!!

I saw the obvious problems of the language barrier that first trip.  My second trip I got contact info and only met women that I had a phone number for.  The phone conversations were, sometimes, difficult, but if we stuck with it, we managed.  We arranged meetings - which was the point, in the end.  We did not attempt transmission repairs !!!  I also used a couple of independent people to make calls for me, when necessary.  I did not meet the women who would not at least try to communicate.       

It is important to me that the woman demonstrate some motivation ... some willingness to make the effort.  After all, I am flying to see them and I am not interested in a woman who expects Prince Charming just to show up on her doorstep and do all the heavy lifting as well.

On my second trip, 3rd woman, everything "clicked".  We met in Yalta, to spend a week together.  She spoke virtually no English, but we made it work.  We went to an Internet cafe a couple of times and used the online translator to discuss some details.   
Tragically, this woman had a stroke on February 1 and has still not recovered, so our plans have been terminated.  But ... it was a very good experience to see that, no matter the language barrier, if two people are patient, things can work out.  We both learned a lot of each other's
language during our time together.
David

[ForgeMaster]

One might ask; "there are "some" nice, attractive woman....

......his odds of finding a good wife or getting scammed, many fold.

....percentage of eligible RW are ...listed on dating sites or even interested in meeting a foreign guy?
A: Fairly small, I would guess.
...percentage of those "Looking" speak enough English to satisfy ....

Of those how many have a computer?

...pool of ladies to search from is getting pretty small ....

I believe there are two prevailing LAWS which increase or decrease a mans chance for success.
A. it's a numbers game.
B. The harder you are to please, the more difficult to find a match.

Guys,
  I am a simple guy with a simple mind.  That is why I have been a math teacher and succeeded at it.  There are many formulas and many solutions suggested here, but the answer is always the same:  ONE. 
  You can talk all the percentages, numbers, odds, pool, chances, ad nauseum.  However, you are only looking for ONE.  I admit that if there is only one fish in the pond and three guys fishing, 2-3 will go home disappointed.  However, we are talking about the difference between a pool of millions here, or tens of thousands there.  Hell, there are so many ducks flying overhead that you don't even have to aim to bag ONE.  It is very easy to be overwhelmed by trying to find a bigger pool, to increase the odds, to work the percentages.....
  The answer is ONE.  Jump in the pool, but make sure that before you jump in the deep end, you know how to swim.  That is what this forum is all about.  It often sounds like we make it harder on her than we are on ourselves.  There is a lot of talk about HER learning English as a requirement, but for US, it is an option.  Isn't it a luxury to be lazy and demanding?  Would we not be able to increase our CHANCES, if we were as hard on ourselves so that the search and then the adaptation would be easier on HER.  We need to get past the awe and fear of looking at the ocean and more determined to develop the skills needed to survive when we work up the guts to jump in the water. 
  We KNOW we can get wet.  What we do not know is whether we have the skills to float and maneuver when we get there.  We will be learning to swim with ONE woman.  It seems that there are 5 steps to get past the numbers game:
1.  Start to develop your language and searching skills as you develop the courage to get in the pool.  (Learn from this forum.  It has a wealth of information and willing advice.)
2.  Choose the kind of woman you want who is compatible with your values and motivations, including language learning.
3.  Narrow down the pool from many to ONE.
4.  Practice your skills on each other.
5.  Have fun.

  I am sorry, but I was never intimidated by numbers.  They don't scare me.  It is the ONE that looks me in the eyes who scares the hell out of me sometimes and that happens when I realize that I lack some skill to cope with the current problem, translation, concept or cultural quirk.  I think we make it hard on ourselves when we don't have the skills needed to narrow the number of women from thousands or millions, down to ONE who we can live with.  Some of us, perhaps, just got lucky there. 

  Corps, I was not trying to pick on you for this post.  It was a GREAT post, but you used so many number nouns that it stimulated me to write about ONE.  Sorry! 

[kleeb]

     I somehow missed this thread earlier, but I will put in my two cents now. In the search for my wife in Russia I only wrote to 3 women. Two of them were English teachers. The other (my now wife) didn't speak any English. I had trouble communicating with the two who spoke English. (I had the same trouble with my first wife and she was American and spoke English) One of them said things that didn't make sense. I dropped her quickly. The other wrote infrequently. When she did all I got was a list of questions. I suddenly realized that I was actually communicating quite good with Sveta though we had to use the online translator. It was difficult to sometimes know what she was saying, but for the most part we were communicating very well. She didn't have a computer at home but that didn't stop her from answering my emails within 2 days. She also lived way out in Siberia. Another obstacle.
     Fastforward to the present. We have been married for three years. She has been in ESL classes most of this time. She still has difficulty with English. Communication is still a problem. I think I will dump her. She's too much trouble. Yea right, when you pry her from my cold dead fingers. She is the best thing I have ever had in my life.
     What I am saying is, whatever works for you. I consider what I have been through an adventure, and the adventure continues. If you want the easy route, good luck. I have taken it most of my life. But this time I took a chance and was very well rewarded.  Lee

[Voyager]

It's all a part of the equation.

Ladies who are the most in demand have the most suiters, which decreases your odds with that lady. Good English is an obvious characteristic that makes a lady more in demand.

Learn Russian.

That's what I did... 

   The funny thing is, I thought my RW had limited English, but she is improving so fast, it will probably be "good" by the time she gets here! 

[MBS01]

A lot of good advice here.  I especially enjoyed reading about getting the number down to "ONE".  I tended to enjoy writting and did a lot of it during the first year before our marriage and the second year before her arrival in Canada as my wife.

So to add or perhaps continue from where the "ONE" topic sort of ended.  Once you are at this stage you can do  lot to help and support your now "ONE" future partner in her quest to learn English.  My wife took private lessons twice a week when we were apart.  During these first 2 years I also spent 6 months with her in Ukraine over 6 visits of around a month each thus providing a lot of local face time together.  During this time also we looked a computers and then she bought one on installment payments which I also helped pay for.  Thus her degree of English incresed as our relationship continued. 

Once Lora had her own computer at home we were able to exchange messages almost every day.  This was with her using an online translator as well.  Thus far from perfect translations, but part of the joy of this is indeed taking time to work through the language issues as they come up.

Fast forward to 6 years after beginning to correspond and Lora has attained a  level 5 ESL rating here.  Besides which her former acedemic level has been equated to being that of a 2 year College Dipolma plus a 4 year Bachlor's Degree by Canada's leading University.  Thus she is well positioned to continue her education and/or work here now. 

So in the end if she is going to relocate to your country she will take the time to study and learn your language.  Again once you are at the "ONE" stage you can do a lot to help by assisting with her language training before she comes to you and by making the communication easier with her having home computer access.

This is what worked for us and the same can work for others if they put their minds to making it happen.  Good Luck.

[WestCoast]

As new member to this forum and the RW/UW search I have to add a comment.  I posted a rather humourous reply (another thread) to Voyager's statement that he communicates with RW that speak little or no English (no offence Voyager). I have been using several different online translators on the conversation in the Russian speaking section of this forum. I think at best I understood 50% of what was being said in some conversations, other conversations virtually nothing.

Yes, I plan on learning at least a little Russian, but I think I have to agree with Marine53 if you don't speak Russian/Ukrainian look for women who speaks a language you are fluent in.  It must make communication easier, saves both of you time and heartache if you're wrong for each other and if you're right for each other it will make your dating process smoother and less complicated.

How do I account for the couples with no common language in the beginning?  Don't know, maybe they were just meant to be, maybe they just wanted it more than others do.

[Voyager]

As new member to this forum and the RW/UW search I have to add a comment.  I posted a rather humourous reply (another thread) to Voyager's statement that he communicates with RW that speak little or no English (no offence Voyager). I have been using several different online translators on the conversation, at best I understood 50% of what was being said in some conversations, other conversations virtually nothing.

Yes, I plan on learning at least a little Russian, but I think I have to agree with Marine53 if you don't speak Russian/Ukrainian look for women who speaks a language you are fluent in. 

How do I account for the couples with no common language in the beginning?  Don't know, maybe they were just meant to be, maybe they just wanted it more than others do.

Yes I would agree with you West. I can actually speak Russian quite well, I only need the translator for written. {Learned Russian from a 4 yr relationship with UW living in the US} It was my choice not to try to be the 4th or 5th guy to write to a RW with fluent English, I wanted to be #1 with a girl who had all of the right qualities except for language. {but smart enough to learn it}

I would say that if she has "little or no" English it would be difficult, but "basic" English is probably enough. After a few letters, go and visit, a girl with "basic" skills can understand you well enough, with the aid of a dictionary.

Just my opinion...

Of course if you are very rich & handsome you can have your pick of beautiful, fluent RW. {possibly GTG's!}

[WestCoast]

Voyager

Now comes the big question what is little English or basic English or as I've seen on some sites poor English or the really confusing one average English.  Average for whom, me, you, who? I speak what I consider basic French, I watch French TV, the news is best because they don't use slang and their accents are fairly standardized.  However, when I've been to France I can sit on a bus and hear French spoken and understand 10% or less, whereas at home listening to the French news broadcast I understand 50%+, couldn't carry on a conversation at that level of course.

So for me I must have someone that has a good working knowledge of English, remember you now speak Russian, even if your written Russian is limited.

  Just slightly off topic.  I read about the Mamba site in another thread and looked it up.  All in Russian of course, but I have the online translators bookmarked so I took a look. You're right lots of local Russian women from Канада, Vancouver.  Why is the country in Russian and the cities are listed in English?  I mean if everything else is in Russian and all the profiles I looked at (15 or 20) were in Russian, why are the cities in English?

 

[Voyager]

So for me I must have someone that has a good working knowledge of English, remember you now speak Russian, even if your written Russian is limited.

Reasonable enough. If you have a girl with "average" English, a 5 minute phone call will tell you if you can understand well enough. FYI I buy phone cards "Next Call" or "Next One", I get about 35 minutes for $5. {~$.15/min} If you call and she can't understand you - move on.


 

Just slightly off topic.  I read about the Mamba site in another thread and looked it up.  All in Russian of course, but I have the online translators bookmarked so I took a look. You're right lots of local Russian women from Канада, Vancouver.  Why is the country in Russian and the cities are listed in English?  I mean if everything else is in Russian and all the profiles I looked at (15 or 20) were in Russian, why are the cities in English?

I don't know that one. Perhaps because there are variations on spelling in Russian, so if the city is written in English it might be harder to look up.

[2tallbill]

Bump? Old topic is it worthy of a conversation?

[Bodine]

Likely not anymore, Bill.

While I never recommended it before, these days there are iPhone translating apps and many are even free.

[Manny]

That's true, we were operating with nothing like the technology we have today in terms of communication and translation.

I remember debating the benefits (or not) of Google Translate over Babelfish when Google wasn't as developed as now.

[2tallbill]

Likely not anymore, Bill.

While I never recommended it before, these days there are iPhone translating apps and many are even free.

Translating apps have gotten a thousand times better for sure. The original
topic was about seeking women who spoke zero English. 

Nearly every educated woman speaks some English although she might be
too shy and rusty to claim that she speaks much/or some. If you actually
seek out and find a zero level girl. It could mean that she is either
uneducated or not bright.

Angel Eyes studied it as a school girl, but was very, very shy about her English.
After a few lessons she picked it up enough to be semi conversational. Smiley
girl learned even faster. I had hour(s) long conversations with Angel Eyes
nearly every day. Smiley girl learned so fast because she had a teenage girl
sponge brain  that soaked it up.

I am fluent in Rushglish: the English spoken by a Russian girl who mixes the
words together in semi random order with no articles and an accent.