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Author Topic: Has anyone here actually married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?  (Read 106755 times)

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Offline Manny

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I think this is one of those topics that is ignored or the meat hidden away on page 10 of other unrelated topics. Call it the elephant in the room if you like.........

I was talking to a guy on the telephone today, who as may seem to do, was fixated on the idea of travelling to Odessa and/or Kiev to meet a multitude of women - none of which he even had a number for, all of whom claimed to be seeking improbable age gaps - you get the idea.  (:)

Odessa and Kiev are amongst those places we hear many stories from: scammers, pro-daters etc.

Many men seem to correspond with women from these cities and many agencies (many of dubious repute as well) reside in these cities. Tours and socials are operated from these cities too. So, in the normal run of things, we would expect a brace of guys married to women from Kiev and Odessa. There are so many agencies there, and so many men go there.

Yet, its not a place I tend to notice many mens wives are actually from. When I think of the guys/couples I personally know and/or have met, and those [amongst the successful] who my wife has worked with, and guys who talk about where their wives are from on the board etc. I am not noticing Odessa and Kiev crop up like one would imagine it might with the foot traffic it gets.

Of course, its easy to write these places off as heaving with pro-daters and other types of disingenuous women who have no intention of relocating abroad with one of the huge influx of foreigners who land there. Most people assert these places are over-fished and/or are the hunting ground for sex tourists. Is all that true and the reputation deserved, or do these places get undeserved bad press? Lets find out in this topic.

In my opinion, despite any flames I may receive for saying it, of late, almost all the dodgy stuff seems to come from Odessa, and secondly Kiev. These places are the new Lugansk since Lugansk lost the crown.

Read all the "I sent money" tales, most of the train wrecks, all the women who have three cell phones but answer none of them, Yuri the boyfriend taxi driver, women on paid cameras at 3am, $300 sushi restaurant bills, apartment rip-off's, $1000 shopping sprees to "prove" affection -- almost all of it. Odessa (with Kiev in a close second place) has become the likely common denominator in so many of these things.

I see so much of this from the side of the fence that is Olga's work, that it becomes so predictable.

Everyone is obsessed with going there, yet few are married to women from there IMO. It is one of a handful of places where foreign men are a stand-alone industry.

When did you last read tales of scams from Moscow, St Pete, Samara, Vladivostok, Vilnius, Riga, Minsk, Kaliningrad or from a Ukrainian town far from Odessa, Kiev and the like? You will likely be counting in years I bet.

So the question is this: Is anyone here actually married to a woman from Odessa or Kiev?   (That has to be the fairest litmus test.)

Obviously that doesn't include Russian/Ukrainian guys who still live there or guys that shipped women in from elsewhere in the FSU and simply met them there.

If there are very few or none - then we must begin to actually ask why not and solicit the views of the residents and those who have spent a lot of time there as to why not. This will then become an educational topic we can direct neophytes to who are considering going there.
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Offline Vinnvinny

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2010, 02:39:18 PM »
Good question Manny. I have thought for a long time that there are very few WM who have, I know I've never met any. Are you including ladies born and bred in those cities or ones who moved there prior to seeking a foreign partner?

Offline Manny

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2010, 02:46:10 PM »
Are you including ladies born and bred in those cities or ones who moved there prior to seeking a foreign partner?

Good point. I guess that must be judged on mentality. Ask a woman where she is from and see what answer she gives? I can see that someone who is living there might be classed as being "from there", but then how long were they living there? How long would you need to live in London (assuming you did) to say you were from London?

I knew someone would find a hole in the question.  :chuckle:

When someone asks my wife where she is from, she tends to say "Manchester" for fun because it makes them do this.  :drunk:  But so many people ask her this she just agrees with their guess now to avoid unnecessary conversation with strangers. Recently she has been French and Swedish but is mostly Polish.  :chuckle:  She has lived here since 2006 and has a British passport, but is she from England? I would say not. She says she only "lives here" and is from Togliatti and will remain forever Russian in her heart. Certainly, she has few traits I consider "local".

Lets go with born and bred Odessa and Kiev............
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Offline Donhollio

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2010, 03:01:33 PM »


Of course, its easy to write these places off as heaving with pro-daters and other types of disingenuous women who have no intention of relocating abroad with one of the huge influx of foreigners who land there. Most people assert these places are over-fished and/or are the hunting ground for sex tourists. Is all that true and the reputation deserved, or do these places get undeserved bad press? Lets find out in this topic.

So the question is this: Is anyone here actually married to a woman from Odessa or Kiev?

 Without a doubt it's reputation exceeds the reality. Remember it only takes a few to spoil a good thing.  Thomas was married to his Odessa wife. I believe BCARTR found his wife there as well, and through A-web !  :o

Quote from: Manny
If there are very few or none - then we must begin to actually ask why not and solicit the views of the residents and those who have spent a lot of time there as to why not. This will then become an educational topic we can direct neophytes to who are considering going there.

 If forum chatter is to be followed, no neophyte would dare make Odessa a part of his plans. I however have spent a considerable amount of time in Odessa, and I have see many genuine western men / UA woman relationships.  One also needs to keep in mind that a very small percentage of western men take the time to find a forum such as this. Less than 1% I'd wager.
 I feel the stories of deception arise from the socially inept western man deciding this pursuit is for him. But he couldn't fathom travelling to any city unless its well advertised. Odessa and Kiev rise to the top when one looks at Ukraine. Tourism in Odessa is very advanced in comparison to some similar cities in population in the FSU. So the social outcast goes where its easy, seeks out a Kova that is putting out signals any normal man would pick up on, and gets a pro dater who runs his wallet dry.



Offline Manny

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2010, 03:03:55 PM »
I however have spent a considerable amount of time in Odessa, and I have see many genuine western men / UA woman relationships. 

Remind us where your "committed to" lady is from and how many times you went to Kiev/Odessa prior?
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Offline divad

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2010, 03:53:24 PM »
I agree with Donhollio that Kiev and Odessa are major destinations for socially inept western men who are easy targets for pro-daters and scammers.

Speaking of socially inept western men...

My first trip was to Odessa and I became good friends with my interpreter. She is now married to a professor in Steven Point, WI.  I just talked to her a few months ago and she wants to set my up with one of her cousins.

She was an interpreter for some of the big agencies in Odessa for about 5 years. She did say Odessa has its share of pro-daters and scammers. She said the bigger problem is young girls who are not serious and just playing games. But she also said there are many nice, serious, and marriage-minded girls in Odessa too.


Offline Donhollio

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2010, 03:53:52 PM »
 Manny since you have never been to Ukraine, you seem to think that if one spends time there he should have his girl. You have always displayed a bias towards UA, based on hearsay. Why not visit Odessa this summer on a mini vacation.  The amount of girls I met in Odessa for dating purposes, is less then a dozen. If you like I can take a few minutes to give you a exact number. Also keep in mind that I returned to RE visit 3 girls, and one guy  :innocent:
 
  I have told you this before Manny, you seem to think that the UA girl is flawed somehow.At least that is the impression you leave with me time and time again. Go there and experience it for yourself, Odessa girls are not flawed! As for my current GF being from Uzbekistan so what? I searched all of the FSU, Russian girls I talked to on the phone all had attitude issues I wasn't going to tolerate. Girls in Belarus didn't pan out.

Offline Manny

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2010, 04:04:45 PM »
  As for my current GF being from Uzbekistan so what?

The question was about success. As you are now "committed" to a girl from Uzbekistan after many trips to Ukraine, that speaks for itself really. Ukraine didn't work for you. Wrap it up how you like but that remains the eventual outcome.

I am not against Ukraine as you suggest - hence this topic.
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Offline Vinnvinny

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2010, 04:15:21 PM »
It’s the forum league table hierarchy Don, I see it a lot. If you’re married to a Russian lady you’re part of the alleged elite league. Guys married to UA girls are bottom of that table and maintaining their top billing by their fingertips.

Guys like you and me who have repeatedly returned to UA but are still single are Sunday amateurs and of little relevance except when sex tourism advice is sought.   ;D

..... you don’t read about too many guys here who are married to girls from Moscow or St Pete’s either.

Offline Stirlitz

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I have
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2010, 04:50:54 PM »
I am actually!
Igor Kalinin
Russian Translator/Interpreter/Guide/Agent for Odessa, the Crimea and the rest of Ukraine
www.odessaguide.net

Offline Manny

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Re: I have
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2010, 04:52:34 PM »
I am actually!

Ahh but you are a local.  :)
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Offline skiingandrunning

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2010, 05:14:26 PM »
Two women I have communicated with from Kiev and kept up as friends have passed the marriage threshold.  Both were MD's working with big Pharma and either would have been a good catch for the right man (they had listed themselves on EM). 

Offline RG

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2010, 05:55:39 PM »
  As for my current GF being from Uzbekistan so what?

The question was about success. As you are now "committed" to a girl from Uzbekistan after many trips to Ukraine, that speaks for itself really. Ukraine didn't work for you. Wrap it up how you like but that remains the eventual outcome.

I am not against Ukraine as you suggest - hence this topic.

Manny, that's a misleading statement, IMO.  I have no horse in this race, but I certainly don't recall Don saying, "Oh, Russian women are all so much nicer than the girls I've met in Ukraine!" or anything similar.  Things are rarely black and white, although percentages might certainly go up or down in some locations.  I'd love to hear Dons take on that one, myself (if he noticed any significant "differences").

FWIW, I never excluded any location at all.  The people that I wound up communicating with longer than others - none were from Ukraine, nor were they from Moscow, either.  Several even admitted to a strong dislike of Moscow.  It's possible that as I was not looking for a "big city nightlife" kind of girl, that I simply felt a mismatch in their personality and my own, and moved on. 

Offline dbneeley

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2010, 11:49:44 PM »
The lack of either science or common sense in many of these threads is often rather breathtaking. For example:

Quote

The question was about success. As you are now "committed" to a girl from Uzbekistan after many trips to Ukraine, that speaks for itself really. Ukraine didn't work for you. Wrap it up how you like but that remains the eventual outcome.


Now, why would that "speak for itself really?"

Considering that this pursuit is not exactly "rocket science" and that many men spend many years traveling back and forth without "success" before settling on one lady (if, indeed, they ever do)--what in the world would this one example indicate about Ukraine?

It is true that Russian people in general tend to consider themselves superior to people from other FSU countries, and that among Russians the denizens of St. Petersburg and Moscow consider themselves superior to other Russians. Fortunately, there are exceptions to this rule--but often it can also be very subtle.

I have observed, too, that Western men married to FSUW may tend to find their own outlook is colored by the attitude of their wives on such subjects, often without their realizing it.

When you get right down to it, in any objective sense there is little real difference between ladies from one FSU country to another.

With regard to Odessa and Kiev, I think it may be that the agencies in those cities are heavily laden with non-serious women. However, if a naive man buys into the hype and the idea that the agencies are loaded with twenty-somethings hankering after much older men--they are very likely to wind up with a scammer or a pro dater wherever they might be looking--although the selection of these, too, is larger in the bigger cities with more exposure to Western tourists. After all, Kiev and Odessa are the largest cities which are primary points of entry into Ukraine. The other major cities are only secondary destinations, at least for initial entry.

For the "newbies"--in both cities, there are many very sincere ladies seeking for their "other half"--but obviously they must be separated out from the crowd of those whose motives are far less pure. Whether that winnowing process is something that appeals to you is something you must determine for yourself.

David

Offline Donhollio

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2010, 12:24:36 AM »
 As for my current GF being from Uzbekistan so what?

The question was about success. As you are now "committed" to a girl from Uzbekistan after many trips to Ukraine, that speaks for itself really. Ukraine didn't work for you. Wrap it up how you like but that remains the eventual outcome.

I am not against Ukraine as you suggest - hence this topic.

 You sure your not anti Ukraine Manny?  Really sure?  You have avoided that country like it was a disease, always giving scathing tales like you'd be embarrassed if someone should even happen to see a UA stamp in your passport. Go search your past posts for UA related comments, if you find one that doesn't include content that the women are all whores, pro daters ,sluts, dishonest or opportunistic in nature, I'd really be happy to read them. BTW I have been committed before to a Odessa girl in 2006.

It's the forum league table hierarchy Don, I see it a lot. If you're married to a Russian lady you're part of the alleged elite league. Guys married to UA girls are bottom of that table and maintaining their top billing by their fingertips.

Guys like you and me who have repeatedly returned to UA but are still single are Sunday amateurs and of little relevance except when sex tourism advice is sought.   ;D

..... you don't read about too many guys here who are married to girls from Moscow or St Pete's either.


   Vinny once again sums it up better than I ever could. tiphat  I remember after I announced that I would be going to Russia, I started to hear from a few how Russia will be so much better. I can only imagine landing a Russian from Uzbekistan ranks even lower then one from Ukraine. If you have yet to pick up on what Vinny says, you may wish to look deeper. At one point you were calling him a sex tourist, and yet had never met the man. You base this on him going to UA many times. Ukraine can be a very fun place to be, one doesn't need to be on a bride mission each day he is there. Go tag along with Vinny, then write about Ukraine.

Manny, that's a misleading statement, IMO.  I have no horse in this race, but I certainly don't recall Don saying, "Oh, Russian women are all so much nicer than the girls I've met in Ukraine!" or anything similar. Things are rarely black and white, although percentages might certainly go up or down in some locations. I'd love to hear Dons take on that one, myself (if he noticed any significant "differences").

 I did, they were negligible. I'm saving that info for my trip report installment.
 

Offline el_guero

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Re: I have
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2010, 12:37:44 AM »
I am actually!

And I thought of you right away!

Offline Manny

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2010, 01:01:06 AM »
The lack of either science or common sense in many of these threads is often rather breathtaking. For example:

Quote

The question was about success. As you are now "committed" to a girl from Uzbekistan after many trips to Ukraine, that speaks for itself really. Ukraine didn't work for you. Wrap it up how you like but that remains the eventual outcome.


Now, why would that "speak for itself really?"


It speaks for itself only regards the bolded bit in the quote: Ukraine didnt work out for Don if commitment looking toward marriage was the desired outcome. Nothing more -- nothing less.

Go search your past posts for UA related comments, if you find one that doesn't include content that the women are all whores, pro daters ,sluts, dishonest or opportunistic in nature, I'd really be happy to read them.

I'd be surprised if you found one that suggested anything of the kind.
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Offline Chris

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2010, 01:11:57 AM »
I know two guys away from the boards that are married to ladies from Odessa and possibly one from Kiev, I say possibly because he was supposed to get married not long ago but I have not heard if it happened. The two ladies married to the two Brits are good women, one from Odessa married to a Brit I actually met in Kiev a few years ago when she was visiting the city so have known her a few years now.

If I was searching again, would I go to Odessa and Kiev, well probably no chance of Odessa, Kiev, it depends, Odessa is known as a good place to visit, but to meet a wife there are far better places IMHO. Having said that, I very much doubt I would go to Moscow again, or St Petes either to meet a women for marriage, I have met women from some of the bigger cities and yes of course there are good ones and bad ones everywhere, but I still stick to my mantra that there are better women to be found in the smaller less travelled cities of the FSU, whether that be Ukraine, Belarus, Russia it depends, I found mine in a small Western Ukrainian city, so I am biased a little, just like most guys on here are also biased a little towards their wife's home cities, whether they admit it or not, it is a fact, you can see it in the way they write about these cities.

I have been to Russia and Ukraine and my better experiences have all been in Ukraine, that is why I chose to concentrate on that part of the FSU, but if pushed and had the time I bet you can also find good women in the cities that are the title of this thread, although personally I very much doubt I would search in these places first.

Слава Україні

Offline sparky114

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2010, 01:28:12 AM »
We just spent Saturday in Stratford upon Avon with a Guy and his Ukrainian Wife from Odessa!!

So that's one exported from what I know, they have been married 5+ years and have a daughter :)

PS no she does not miss home!!! only been home 2 times in 5 years :o

Her Comment:- If Mom wants to see us it is better she comes here, and why would I want to go there when there is so many better places in the world I would like to see! :bow:
Today is only one day in a life of happiness

Mark

Offline dazzer

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2010, 04:53:12 PM »
Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?

Yes me!, and i have just returned from there again, met loads of Oksana's friends, all very nice to talk to and of course absolutely gorgeous,   :-X Vinnvinny and Don are right....Manny does often display a bias towards RW, i don't know perhaps It's something he's red somewhere    tiphat
« on: January 14, 2010, 02:18:43 AM »
Would she be offended to get a text without telling her ahead of time?

Offline RG

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2010, 05:56:22 PM »
Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?

Yes me!, and i have just returned from there again, met loads of Oksana's friends, all very nice to talk to and of course absolutely gorgeous,   :-X Vinnvinny and Don are right....Manny does often display a bias towards RW, i don't know perhaps It's something he's red somewhere    tiphat

You made it back! :)  How did the train go?

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2010, 10:08:20 PM »
At least two couples in our church fit the Western man/Kiev lady description. Of the two I'm thinking of, both couples have been married over well a decade, but they may not fit exactly the descriptions for which Manny is searching.

Couple #1 met while the AM was stationed with the US Consolate in Ukraine before an Embassy was established in January 1992. Some older travelers may remember when most American diplomatic matters in Ukraine were handled either at the US Embassy in Warsaw or in Moscow, depending on the issue. This gentleman and his Ukrainian wife met as both worked in USA affairs, he as a military attache and she as a secretary. He is in his late 50's now and she in her late 40's. They have grown children from the marriage.

Couple #2 is somewhat older than couple #1 but they've not been married as long. I don't know the exact details of how they met other than he is a retired businessman, quite well off, and likes to travel. He speaks French and German in addition to English. His wife was from Kiev and she also speaks French in addition to English, Russian and Ukrainian.

Although he is perhaps 70, she is an attractive and in-shape mid 50'ish, both are retired, they get along well together and have been married over a decade at the very least. They have children, but not from this marriage.

Both ladies, as have both men, maintained themselves and are much more attractive than the average person of their age groups.

Offline Wild Orchid

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2010, 10:44:09 PM »
I know one lady from Kiev, she was 50+ when she married her Au husband. I don't know if you are counting such couples.

Offline Vinnvinny

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2010, 12:27:44 AM »
Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?

Yes me!, and i have just returned from there again, met loads of Oksana's friends, all very nice to talk to and of course absolutely gorgeous,   :-X Vinnvinny and Don are right....Manny does often display a bias towards RW, i don't know perhaps It's something he's red somewhere    tiphat

Welcome back dazzer! Haven't you mentioned on a number of occasions that your good lady lives some way from Odessa, 100km IIRC?

Offline dazzer

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Re: Has anyone here married a woman from Odessa or Kiev?
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2010, 01:07:02 PM »
You made it back! :)  How did the train go?
Very well thanks Raleigh, TR coming soon tiphat
Welcome back dazzer! Haven't you mentioned on a number of occasions that your good lady lives some way from Odessa, 100km IIRC?
Now you come to mention it  :innocent:...

I keep thinking of where we met ( Odessa ), and that both her sisters now live there, the fact is she was born and raised 160+KM outside Odessa, and at 18 went to live/work/marry in Izmail, this being around 300KM from Odessa, so perhaps best to count me out on this one then tiphat
« on: January 14, 2010, 02:18:43 AM »
Would she be offended to get a text without telling her ahead of time?


 

 

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