Jim's Recommendation for Learning Russian

[agencyscams]

OK Guys, trust me, I know how to learn a language. I speak 5. Maybe that is why I get hassled about my grammar...it is now a moshpit of languages.

Here is a link to the best language book I have ever used. (It is an Amazon link. I am using it just so you see the book.)

http://www.amazon.com/New-Penguin-Russian-Course-Beginners/dp/0140120416

Because I speak French, the 6 person conjugating was not hard. If it is new to you. Study that first.

Here is how to study.

- Use the book. Don't move on to the next subject until you fully understand the current subject.

- Every day, write down 3 verbs and 3 other words that you consider to be good words to know. Throughout the day, find the translations of the words. At night write these words on a full sheet of paper. When that full sheet of paper is full, copy all the words and translations to a notebook where you have pages for verbs and other pages for words according to subject. (animals, food, adjectives, in the house, etc) YOU CANNOT LEARN ANYTHING FROM LISTENING, YOU NEED TO SEE IT AND READ IT!!!

Why only 6 words per day? Some people will tell you to memorize 20 words per day. Impossible. You might remember a few of those 20. But of my 6 per day, you will remember all 6. (6 X 365 = a lot of words in one year.)

Try to think in Russian in your head as much as you can. Throughout the day, when you daydream, do it in the Russian you know.

Beginners can translate in their heads. It is natural. But after a while, you need to stop translating and just speak in Russian. (without translating in your head.) Sounds impossible, but after a while, you'll be able to do it.

I final note. Your choice. In the book, they explain the 6 cases in Russian. The first time I read it, I thought my head was going to explode. If anyone has ever taken a Russian language test, you know that 70% of the questions are based on the 6 cases. The 1st time I studied the book, I skipped the 6 cases. After I had pretty much finished the book, I went back and studied the cases. I liked it this way. But, when you get the 2nd case, you'll undertsand what I am talking about and if you want to study it like the book teaches, or like I did it.

moi drug
c moem drugom
dlya moego druga...

no more no more...I'll have nightmares.

Last advice. Don't do it half-ass. You want to learn? Do it. One hour a day won't kill you.

[mendeleyev]

Jim, no trust me. Please tell me that you're joking...first about the Penguin book (a PAPERBACK primer) being the best. If that is the best, why bother?

I'm scratching my head on two additional statements:

1- Re: Memorization of words. Now mind you, I do like your comments regarding thinking in Russia, but please, Any language will require some memorization. Duh. But, Russian grammar, unless one wishes to end up sounding like a FOOL, cannot be memorized out of a paperback. Especially that one.

2- I also like your comments about an hour daily. Linguistic experts who uniformly say that Russian is about a 5-7 year process in coming to where one understands and thinks immediately without having to mentally translate difficult concepts, also advise at least an hour daily.

But without listening?!

Perhaps you're heard about the tourists who were wondering around Moscow looking for a "Pec tor ah?" They had taken your advice apparently and learned by reading, not listening (the concept you recommend is like chalk on a blackboard to the ears of linguistic experts around the world) and they were in search of this mysterious "Pec tor ah."

ресторан would have been much easier to learn as a RIST AH RAHN (restaurant) had they taken the time to LISTEN.

[agencyscams]

Jim, no trust me. Please tell me that you're joking...first about the Penguin book (a PAPERBACK primer) being the best. If that is the best, why bother?

Why bother with what? I don't understand.

One does not memorize grammar, one LEARNS grammar. Do you know this book? If you know one that is better, please tell everyone.

And I never said anything about not listening. A good book will tell you how to pronounce Russian, and there are many websites that have audio.

I guess I will have to clarify, this book will not teach you everything that you need to know about Russian. And you will be limited if you are outside of Russia, but you still need to start someplace.

If mendeleyev thinks that the book I recommended is not good, try his choice.  Name it, mendeleyev.

EDIT.....after I thought about it a little more...

mendeleyev, you need to read my psot again. I never said anything about memorizing. I said that you cannot memorize 20 words per day. That is too many words. You will end up forgetting many of them.

So, really, you simply don't like the book I mentioned. So, please tell us your pick. (Also, I said that it is the best book I (CAPITAL 'I') have ever used.  But, I guess that means nothing. Tell us YOUR pick.

[TwoBitBandit]

Jim, I think your advice isn't very good.

I study languages in my spare time and I speak Russian quite well.

The best book on the topic of learning languages is "How To Learn Any Language: Quickly, Easily, Inexpensively, Enjoyably and on Your Own" by Barry Farber.  It's $13 on Amazon.  My ability to learn languages increased significantly once I started following all of Mr. Farber's suggestions and techniques.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Learn-Any-Language-Inexpensively/dp/0806512717

It's available at "substantially below retail value" if you know how to use bittorrent.

I've gone through periods of learning 20 new words a day (and remembered them long-term) but it is serious work.  It's difficult but it can be done.

[mendeleyev]

Jim, sorry that you've not been here to absorb all of it, but we have more than you've apparently encountered. With that said, I owe you both an apology and a thank you. First the apology: It has been arranged but hadn't been updated for some time. Next the thank you: Until your response, updating the resources page was a "I'll get to it list" so truly, my sincere thanks for the inspiration!  

Many of the resources are either posted in, or taken from, other posts in the language section, many inside the Learn Russian by Reading the Signs, and from the Learn Russian by Music threads, etc. These have been updated in the Resources thread and it has been made a "sticky" to alway appear at the top of the section. Of course all RUA members can add resources to the list.


RUA Resource List: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,4177.msg52213.html#msg52213


RUA resources:
Learn Russian by reading Cyrillic Signs http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=2257.0
Word of the Day: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=3482.0
Anatomy for Big Dummies: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=6648.0
Russian Phrases: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=5809.0
Learn Russian by listening to Russian Music: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=4897.0
Questions about the Russian Language: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=7127.0
Learn to Count in Russian: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=7127.0
Reading a Menu in Russian: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=9476.0
Russian Cognates: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=6875.0
Russian for Travel-Finance-Food: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=5989.0
Russian Keyboard layouts: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=4084.0
Russian Fonts on the computer: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=3172.0



Helpful books and printed materials (Best quality textbooks that are easy for "normal people" to handle/understand):

- Learn Russian the Fast and Fun Way (Fast and Fun Way Series) by Thomas R. Beyer Jr. Ph.D. — Considered the most common text/workbook used in community colleges in the USA for beginning Russian classes. Excellent! You will learn to read, write, listen and speak with correct grammar. Note: If you find it on Ebay or Amazon make sure the cassettes or CDs come with it. It’s a textbook and workbook all in one large soft paperbound and is great especially as the listening and speaking practice is invaluable. With audio included with the work book you can do this at home.

- Golosa: A Basic Course in Russian, Book 1 (3rd Edition) by Richard M. Robin, Karen Evans-Romaine, Galina Shatalina, and Joanna M. Robin.

- Russian for Dummies (For Dummies (Language & Literature) by Andrew Kaufman — excellent book.

- The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Learning Russian, 2nd Edition (Complete Idiot’s Guide to) by Christopher Froehlich. Great for grammar in a way we idiots can understand it.

- Live From Moscow/Russian Stage One — probably one of the best at University level, yet with the ability to use it by yourself at home. Hardback textbook and large paperback workbook with 2 CD’s and one VHS. Combines visual, audio, video, and you’ll learn to read, speak and write as well as hear/see as you learn. However, it’s been discontinued from active printing and if you buy it on Ebay or Amazon, make certain that the VHS, CDs (or cassettes) are included with the text and workbook…otherwise the learning value diminishes quickly. Getting hard to find the complete package. There is a stage Two for advanced students.

- The Everything Russian Practice Book: Simple Techniques to Improve Your Speaking And Writing Skills (Everything: Language and Literature) – Paperback (Jan 2007) by Nina Wieda

- Colloquial Russian: The Complete Course for Beginners, by Svetlana Le Fleming & Susan E. Kay

- Colloquial Russian 2: The Next Step in Language Learning is next in the series. (Introduction to spoken and written Russian. Includes a course book containing dialogues, grammatical notes, exercises and cultural information, together with two cassettes with recordings of some of the dialogues and exercises. The Russian text is written in the Cyrillic alphabet throughout.)

- Teach Yourself Russian Language Life and Culture, by Stephen Webber and Tatyana Webber (Very interesting introduction to Russian society and culture. Covers a wide range of topics, including literature, music, language, art, architecture, cinema, theatre, science, the media, politics, education, health, work, leisure, transport, family and religion. It isn’t a language textbook, though each chapter does include a list of useful Russian words and phrases, and further examples of key vocabulary appear in the main text. This book also contains a guide to additional reading, useful websites and places of interest. If you’re learning Russian, or just interested in Russian, this book is essential reading.)

- Teach Yourself Russian, by Daphne West
(A good, clear introduction to spoken and written Russian. Includes a course book containing dialogues, grammatical notes, exercises and cultural information, together with two CDs with recordings of most of the dialogues and some of the exercises. Excellent for beginners.)

- Teach Yourself Beginner’s Russian Script by Daphne West – learn how to write cursive Russian since it’s very different from printed Russian lettering. Many of you know that Russians rarely print, they write everything from love letters to grocery lists in long-hand cursive. Cyrillic cursive is very different from printed letters. Very helpful book!

- How To Learn Any Language: Quickly, Easily, Inexpensively, Enjoyably and on Your Own by Barry Farber. From member TwoBit, a Russian speaker who recommends this as the best book on the topic of learning languages.

- The New Penguin Russian Course: A Complete Course for Beginners (Penguin Handbooks, Paperback) . Recommended by RUA member Jim of AgencyScams.



Free Video Courses
A great way to start learning Russian as a beginner is to watch the Russian lessons on YouTube by Victor Dmitrievitch Huliganov. (Those who understand Russian will understand the play on his last name.) His lessons are a combination of serious learning and humour, and most will find this a good combination to learn quickly. Each lesson is concluded with a joke or poem and then a song (yes, he does the singing!). On a serious note he is a highly regarded professor, but very eccentric and very, very funny with his accent and use of humour.

All the lessons of Series One and Series Two are now available on YouTube. You can search them by his name or by RL 101 and RL 102. The RL 101 series teaches the alphabet and the concepts behind it and the RL 102 series is for beginning grammar.

Start here with the introduction to learning Russian:

for the introduction. The first lesson is here:

Online courses - free study
http://www.russian-language-for-lovers.com/russian-lessons.html   A free online beginners course, features include sound and translation tool.
www.russianpodcast101.com
www.learningrussian.net/
http://study-russian.blogspot.com/
http://russianforeveryone.com
http://www.trymango.com
http://www.russianlessons.net
www.word2word.com
http://listen2russian.com
www.masterrussian.com
http://spoonfedrussian.com/
http://www.ilike2learn.com/ilike2learn/russian
http://learnrussian.elanguageschool.net
http://russian.speak7.com
http://www.privyet.org.uk
http://www.unbound.ru/2b/russian2.html
http://www.mylanguageexchange.com/Learn/Russian.asp
http://www.101languages.net/russian/basics.html
http://www.open-of-course.org
http://speakrussian.blogspot.com (Known as “A Spoonful of Russian” this popular series no longer provides updates, however the existing material is excellent.)
http://www.ielanguages.com/russian.html



Online courses - paid subscription
http://listen2russian.com   One of the best and highly recommended by the Mendeleyev Journal. Includes an online textbook, downloadable resources, and voice tools to listen and practice.

http://www.russianpod101.com/   This is a very complete yet simple course. The features are awesome and include a way to record and check your accent, grammar checker, pdf downloads of each lesson, and great sound resources. One of the best!  Pricing is FREE for a short beginners course, then $8 monthly for the next level and the premium service is just $25 per month and there are discounts for the longer you study.

Mango Languages: http://mangolanguages.com/   Mango is a well respected online language-learning system that teaches actual conversation skills.

Michel Thomas Method Russian course--recommended by RUA members Stubben and Herrie. http://www.michelthomas.co.uk/



CD's and associated resources:
Pimsleur (Google the Internet and select the best source for your needs.)

Rosetta Stone (Google the Internet and select the best source for your needs.)



Dictionaries (bound)
The Oxford Russian Dictionary: Russian-English English-Russian, by Della Thompson .Ediitor   (Excellent, up-to-date Russian-English, English-Russian dictionary containing over 45,000 words and phrases.)



Word of the Day
From Transparent Languages: http://www.transparent.com/wotd/today/russian.htm

Word of the Day, with explantions on grammar from a very capable professor of Russian at Arizona State University: http://shininghappypeople.net/rwotd/blog4.php



Keyboards
www.imtranslator.com   (Includes online keyboard, a dictionary and allows you to hear words spoken.)



Translators (online)
www.imtranslator.com   (Includes online keyboard, a dictionary and allows you to hear words spoken.)

Google Translate: http://translate.google.com/#en|ru|



Voice Pronunciation online
http://www.oddcast.com/home/demos/tts/tts_example.php   Paste words and listen to Russian speakers.

http://www.acapela-group.com/text-to-speech-interactive-demo.html    Paste words and listen to Russian speakers.


Grammar books/workbooks:
- A Comprehensive Russian Grammar, by Terence Wade
(Comprehensive, in-depth guide to the grammar of written and spoken Russian. Includes numerous example sentences taken from comtemporary literature and media sources illustrating the grammatical points. This book is suitable for intermediate to advanced level students of Russian.)

- 501 Russian Verbs: Fully Conjugated in All the Tenses Alphabetically Arranged, by Thomas R., Jr. Beyer
(Great little resource!)

- The Oxford Russian Grammar and Verbs, by Terence Wade
(Excellent, clear, concise guide to the grammar of written and spoken Russian. Covers all the essentials and also the exceptions. Includes numerous example sentences illustrating the grammatical points.)



Test and Quiz resources
www.practicerussian.com


Additional resources include:
http://www.declan-software.com/russian/wordfiles_russian.htm
http://babel.uoregon.edu/russian
http://www.uni.edu/becker/Russian2.html#photos
http://www.alphadictionary.com/rusgrammar/index.html
http://www.ilearnwords.com
http://www.russianclass.co.uk
http://tasteofrussian.com (Podcasts to listen to beginning lessons)
http://www.meighan.net/alexander/Chapter13.htm  Learn Ladies names



Suggested Lesson Plan for beginners:

1- Daily lessons from http://listen2russian.com or from http://www.russianpod101.com for consistent step by step instruction, with correct pronuncation by native speakers.

2- Practice projects, 1 day per week or weekends: Use above resources such as http://www.russianlessons.net or http://spoonfedrussian.com for supplementary homework or projects. Use the “homework” to learn to master the alphabet, how to use numbers/counting, pronounce names/titles of relatives, how to tell time, and some other basics. This supplemental homework will take you further in your ability to put sentences and phrases together.

3a- Weeks ONE and THREE: Watch YOUTUBE.com for RL101 and the other Russian lessons in both the RL 101 and the RL 102 series.

 Complete all the lessons, both series.

3b- Weeks TWO and FOUR: Listen to PIMSLEUR audio CDs, 1 lesson per week. Also both print and write the alphabet, two times daily until you can do it forward and backwards in your sleep, including cursive. Read the RUA language thread frequently.

4- Twice a week, read one chapter and make notes from "The Idiot's Guide to Learning Russian." Re-read the same chapter again later in the week.



Footnote: What is the meaning of the Red Star?
As in Soviet times, it denotes something special. From an RUA member doing exceptional Russian homework, resources added to our list by an RUA member, resources operated by RUA members,  resources which have made it to the Mendeleyev Journal's "Red Star" list, or resources which participate with RUA's commercial member banner exchange program.

No monetary or any other consideration is given or received for the Red Star designation.


RUA Resource List: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,4177.msg52213.html#msg52213 (Updated on 17 April 2010. Please report any broken or missing links to Moderator.)

[Brasscasing]

So, really, you simply don't like the book I mentioned. So, please tell us your pick....

Yep...you had to ask didn't you.

Mendy,

As usual, you've again outdone yourself. I looked in while you were putting this project (above) together in the workshop...I'm speechless, it's bloody brilliant...

Brass

[mendeleyev]

Thanks Brass, and I really do have to thank Jim of Scams for lighting the fire because this project had been sitting stale for a long time. Fortunately it was all there, just had to bring it all together and update it to the resources page.  

Now it means that the resource list at the Mendeleyev Journal is even more out of date so I'll spend some time tomorrow updating it as well.

[agencyscams]

mendeleyev,

Great list. That reply is heaps better than, "I don't like that book because it is paperback."

So, if a guy has time for all that, AWESOME. GO for it and good luck.

and for twobitbandit, if you want a debate (NOT HERE) in 5 different languages, let's do it. Please avoid telling me I don't know how to do something (following my own advice) if you have no idea. But hey, what works for you, do it. yeehaa.

Thanks again mendeleyev, great resources. (Guess I'll just keep my mouth shut. Maybe visiting Russia IS better than living there)

PS kerouac and especially mendeleyev, thanks for the input. I sincerely apologize for stepping out of the scam forums and giving opinions. It will NOT happen again.

[mendeleyev]

Guess I'll just keep my mouth shut. Maybe visiting Russia IS better than living there.

This I wouldn't know about...business interests, maintaining a home, dacha, and having a daughter attending Univ in Russia leaves me in the same position as you.

I sincerely apologize for stepping out of the scam forums and giving opinions. It will NOT happen again.

Why not? I'd love to have you contribute to some of the cities in the City feature threads, especially as you may have advice on local agencies, or even hotels and restaurants. Photos are also great. Would also value suggestions on cities that we've not yet featured.

[JL]

OK Guys, trust me, I know how to learn a language. I speak 5. Maybe that is why I get hassled about my grammar...it is now a moshpit of languages.

Here is a link to the best language book I have ever used. (It is an Amazon link. I am using it just so you see the book.)

http://www.amazon.com/New-Penguin-Russian-Course-Beginners/dp/0140120416

Because I speak French, the 6 person conjugating was not hard. If it is new to you. Study that first.

Here is how to study.

- Use the book. Don't move on to the next subject until you fully understand the current subject.

- Every day, write down 3 verbs and 3 other words that you consider to be good words to know. Throughout the day, find the translations of the words. At night write these words on a full sheet of paper. When that full sheet of paper is full, copy all the words and translations to a notebook where you have pages for verbs and other pages for words according to subject. (animals, food, adjectives, in the house, etc) YOU CANNOT LEARN ANYTHING FROM LISTENING, YOU NEED TO SEE IT AND READ IT!!!

Why only 6 words per day? Some people will tell you to memorize 20 words per day. Impossible. You might remember a few of those 20. But of my 6 per day, you will remember all 6. (6 X 365 = a lot of words in one year.)

Try to think in Russian in your head as much as you can. Throughout the day, when you daydream, do it in the Russian you know.

Beginners can translate in their heads. It is natural. But after a while, you need to stop translating and just speak in Russian. (without translating in your head.) Sounds impossible, but after a while, you'll be able to do it.

I final note. Your choice. In the book, they explain the 6 cases in Russian. The first time I read it, I thought my head was going to explode. If anyone has ever taken a Russian language test, you know that 70% of the questions are based on the 6 cases. The 1st time I studied the book, I skipped the 6 cases. After I had pretty much finished the book, I went back and studied the cases. I liked it this way. But, when you get the 2nd case, you'll undertsand what I am talking about and if you want to study it like the book teaches, or like I did it.

moi drug
c moem drugom
dlya moego druga...

no more no more...I'll have nightmares.

Last advice. Don't do it half-ass. You want to learn? Do it. One hour a day won't kill you.

Well Jim....regardless of the flack you caught that Penguin book probably get's recommended more than any I know...I have it as well as several others...along with Barry Farbers although if you have studied many languages you probably are familiar with most of his tricks. He's unreal though. They need to preserve his brain and study it.

[Danchik]

Memorization works best for short term cognition, such as an exam. It is not a good method of learning languages. After years of teaching and trying to learn Russian myself, there is not one way to learn. What is needed is a combination of grammar, syntax, vocabulary in context, speaking and listening repetition practice, and just plain hard work.

Speaking and listening to your target language in real life situations and working out your mistakes day in, day out, is by far the best single way to learn and keep (feel it automatically) a language. It's no coincidence that I speak my best Russian in situations I've been in many times over the years. This without any formal Russian lessons, but by merely listening to what was said, and repeating and using it in real life until I got it right. I don't agree with whoever said you can't learn by listening.

I also don't think children learn easier or faster than adults. If given the same parameters as a child, an adult would learn just as fast, if not faster.

I commend anyone who wants to learn another language. I can give many reasons why I think everyone should do it. But, if you're not using your new language daily in all its forms, especially speaking and listening in real life situations, you'll be simply spinning your wheels trying to figure out what's going on if you simply study one of the programs mentioned above. 

The best advice I give to my students is for them to put themselves in as many real life situations as possible and don't be afraid to make mistakes. Just understand your mistakes and learn from them, and in time you'll be speaking correctly. You know, just like a child.