Buying Gold to hedge against inflation

[Maxx]

Update:  Actually their was a time where a 100% fiat currency did work this was in the Colonies (before the American revolution). Its name was "Colonial script".  Infact the sole reason for the American civil war (according to Thomas Jefferson letters) was the fact that King George  demanded the use of Gold and Silver as legal tender outlawing the use of this fiat Colonial currency. And because the liquidity was not sufficient for the Colonies it resulted in immediate economic stagnation.


A gold backed currency is the only way to prevent government to create inflationary sinkholes (realestate prices out of control) which absorb this fake wealth.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying and some of Andrew's

Here's a link to the history of the fiat Colonial currency and how it's failure led to a silver and gold backed currency as spelled out in the constitution.

http://www.founderspatriots.org/articles/continental.htm

[JeanClaude]

Here's a link to the history of the fiat Colonial currency and how it's failure led to a silver and gold backed currency as spelled out in the constitution.

Hi Maxx, i could not give an entire discourse in economics so i had to scim the surface to make a point, but indeed eventually all fiat currencies will fail because there is to great of a moral hazard for government to run the printing press. Just look at the first German central bank right after WWII its started out with an extremely strict monetary policy, but that eventually waned a bit.

I believe the tally system (the tally stick) is the only "fiat currency" that was successfully applied for 400 years approx

@Maxx

And because the liquidity was not sufficient for the Colonies it resulted in immediate economic stagnation.

I like to correct my sentence a little to make the intent more clear

And because the liquidity of gold and silver was not sufficient for the Colonies it resulted in immediate economic stagnation.

[shakespear]

Just look at the first German central bank right after WWII its started out with an extremely strict monetary policy, but that eventually waned a bit. 

 

I believe you mean WW I right?

Saddled with the war debt of the victorious nations, turning on the printing press was the only option available to the Weimar Government. 

[JeanClaude]

I believe you mean WW I right?

I mean WWII,  the precursor to the Deutsche Bank (now deceased we have the European Central Bank). Germany was outproducing England in 1953 (just 8 years after the war) because people did not had their wealth stolen by inflation.

[Maxx]

Andrew is right that when there is white noise everywhere about something, it is about to fall. I noted above that one newsletter I (and Chris and Cufflinks) read was touting gold several years ago. They have a short/medium view. As a long term holding, dripping into gold over time as Shakey suggests is not a bad move. The benefit of dripping into something is that your average buy-in is buffered by differing values over time thus reducing risk of dumping all your chips buying in a speculative bubble.

The economist Robert Beckman said "Cash is king in the downwave" - I think he was right. Collect cash and wait for opportunities. Buy right and sail into the upwave.

The white noise is a combination of salesmen for gold and those in the economic prediction community. They have been accurate in the past predicting the times we are now living in. It is likely IMO that they will be accurate in their assessment of where we are going. However the traditional economists who work for governments and financial institutions that are vested in the fiat system have been dramatically wrong.

Please take the time and watch to two clips below of Peter Schiff and Ben Bernanke.

Who was accurate in their predictions of where our economy was heading? Then ask yourself which one recommends gold and getting out of the dollar.

[WestCoast]

Jean, as before it is worth knowing a little history before making posts.

I see you have an economics degree from the central bank of Zimbabwe, Mine is from the "Universities of Aix-Marseille" Masters in mathematics with a postdoc in economics. I work at ING bank calculating the convenience yield for oil and other (non degradable assets) and commodities in the city of Nice.

Its funny how you think I am the layman but maybe you could pickup a good freshmen course on the history of banking and Money. But i know people would rather be lazy and shout their mouth off instead of reading a 875+ page scientific work describing past and present FACTUAL banking laws ( and their subversion, aka the  subsequent removal of checks and balances that led to this crisis.) But i will give you my old course name anyway:

Money-Bank-Credit-and-Economic-Cycles
pdf alert-> http://mises.org/store/Money-Bank-Credit-and-Economic-Cycles-P290.aspx
Jesús Huerta de Soto, professor of economics at the Universidad Rey Juan Carlos, Madrid, has made history with this mammoth and exciting treatise that it has and can again, without inflation, without business cycles, and without the economic instability that has characterized the age of government control

So we all did have an economy without manufactured "pump" and "dump" cycles? Well well, ( No andrew that was not in the middle ages, but early 20Th century.

1) estimates suggest that the total weight of all gold ever produced is around 158,000 tons. This is equivalent to an allotment of just under 24g of gold per person on the planet, assuming no gold is used for any purpose other than as a carrier of value. Clearly such a small amount of gold is impractical for use as currency.

Nonsense, Not a rational statement but an emotional one,   what would be enough?  1 KG per person?, 500gr?, 1.5gr? And why do you 'feel' 24gr is not enough? or  any arbitrary number?  You big toe twinkled?

An old 1920's US dollar states "Redeemable in Gold" how much grams of gold would that have bought back then? hardly  24grams. The current dollar states "Legal tender". If the thugs of government would NOT demand payment in taxes (Note: this is not an argument against taxes perse, but your brain will delete this sentence anyway) , the fiat currency would be worthless.

The SOLE reason why fiat money has worth, is because goverment demands the payment in taxes in said currency-> http://en.wiped.org/wiki/Fiat_money

Silver has massive liquidity, so has  copper, etc. and both of them was used for pennies and single dollars coins.

Gold was OK as a carrier/store of value in former times because there were very few people who actually used money and our economies were much smaller. Gold's rarity was then a benefit.

How is making stuff up, even rational? Maybe it sounds right emotionally to you, but is it the same as being factual? Where is the discipline of being rational? What are "former" times anyway? Nixon left the last remnants of the gold standard in the 1970's. (There was price - fixing of gold, but still limited the abuse of the currency by government). Since leaving the gold standard  then there has been a hockystick like inflation of the USD.

Gold is NOT typically used in barter.

Ah, so you also work in the financial sector? What bank is that may i ask? Gold is THE MOST bartered asset used in financial transactions (although it changes ownership, it hardly ever leaves the vault), just like silver, other rare earth metals.  Oil, Iron (metric tons), copper (metric tons) are also used but that is different, these have a  convenience yield.

Guess this is the first time you hear the word "convenience yield" (dont lie) so here->http://en.wiped.org/wiki/Convenience_yield

There ARE benefits to having a currency backed by gold but you should not make the mistake of thinking that this is the same as carrying around gold.

Could you not read my post at 500km/h,.., you are missing some words i wrote! I hate repeating myself.  Gold IS the value, because the free market has determined this to be so!!!

End of story

Please do some proper reading about fractional reserve banking.

Mugabenomi cs is wrong; because its stealing. Free market is good, because it is based on the free choice of humans, instead of state coercion.

But here are some chapters you to upgrade your knowledge.

Money-Bank-Credit-and-Economic-Cycles

Basics:
Chapter 1: The Legal Nature of the Monetary Irregular-Deposit Contract
Chapter 2: Historical Violations of the Legal Principles-> Legal Principles Governing the Monetary Irregular-Deposit Contract

The scam:
Chapter 3: Attempts to Legally Justify Fractional-Reserve Banking
..§2Why it is Impossible to Equate the Irregular Deposit with the Loan or Mutuum Contract
..§3The Roots of the Confusion
..§4The Mistaken Doctrine of Common Law

effects of stealing, via inflation
Chapter 5: Bank Credit Expansion and Its Effects on the Economic System

JeanClaude you basically seem to be saying that we should listen to you because you're a real smart, highly educated guy who works in international banking doing financial calculations that most people don't understand? Aren't those the type of bankers that brought about the current global recession?  The current recession that has caused major downsizing at ING?

[JeanClaude]

JeanClaude you basically seem to be saying that we should listen to you because you're a real smart, highly educated guy

I wrote: ....But i know people would rather be lazy and shout their mouth off instead of reading a 875+ page scientific work describing past and present FACTUAL banking laws....

I don't see people as "smart" or "stupid", I see them as "lazy" or "hardworking". I believe everybody has a goodworking engine between the ears, but if you do not fill it up with fuel. The engine is not going to do you much good.

Being ignorant is not cool and ignorance/lying is not a form of "opinion" either.

Liberalism (in all it forms) caters to lazy egos, these egos want an easy "backdoor" it to intellectual standing, just like liberalism caters to people who want an easy backdoor to the middle class . Buying houses and cars they cant afford.

you're a real smart, highly educated guy who works in international banking doing financial calculations that most people don't understand?

You need mathematical proof that stealing (by inflation) is wrong ?

Aren't those the type of bankers that brought about the current global recession?

Governments and central banks cause pump and dump cycles, please read the chapters I outlined in the book (you can download it as pdf). Bankers do what they have to do to survive this thievery. They position themselves on the right side of the fence for them (and it is not on the side you are standing).

The current recession that has caused major downsizing at ING?

Management used it as an excuse to cut away a lot of pork fat tissue (which would have happened anyway if the employees weren't protected by social labor laws).

[Maxx]

JeanClaude you basically seem to be saying that we should listen to you because you're a real smart, highly educated guy who works in international banking doing financial calculations that most people don't understand? Aren't those the type of bankers that brought about the current global recession? The current recession that has caused major downsizing at ING?

For the part in bold, you are confusing who was who.

The bankers, noteable the central bankers operate off of the Keynesian economic model. They are Keynesians. Governments love Keynesian economics. It allows them the power of issuance of fiat currency and all the spending that comes with it. Those that predicted all that had happened are of the Austrian school of economics. They believe in limited government and a commodity backed currency. It was Austrians like Peter Schiff, Tom Woods and Ron Paul (a medical doctor and a PHD economist) who predicted accurately years earlier the real estate crash, the flattening of the financial sector and the sudden rise in gold. NONE of these men have been asked by the administrations for their advice and what should be done about the economy. Instead the very people who didn't see it coming and who where running things when the crash occurred are now in charge.

JeanClaude is of the Austrian school I believe. I doubt if Andrew will admit to being on either side but he is a Keynesian. He said he likes the Federal Reserve and what they do.



Maxx

[JeanClaude]

I doubt if Andrew will admit to being on either side but he is a Keynesian.

Andrew is a lot of things, but he is not Keynesian.

Although Keynesians support the utility of a central bank, they never (i repeat never!!!) supported a fractional reserve banking system, sure they give goverment (via the central bank) the power to expand and shrink the money supply, but only (in their point of view) to facilitate the growth (or shrinkage) of the economy. This is not the same as outright rampant printing!
--

The bankers, noteable the central bankers operate off of the Keynesian economic model. They are Keynesians.

Central bankers are not ignorant:

Greenspan chairman of the federal reserve system:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Greenspan
 
Although Greenspan was once recognized as a proponent of laissez-faire capitalism, some Objectivists find his support for a gold standard somewhat incongruous or dubious, given the Federal Reserve's role in America's fiat money system and endogenous inflation. He has come under criticism from Harry Binswanger, who believes his actions while at work for the Federal Reserve and his publicly expressed opinions on other issues show abandonment of Objectivist and free market principles.

Wait a sec, so before Mr Greeny  joined the fed , he was NOT a Keynesian and was fighting the thievery of wealth from the citizenry...hmmm.....but lets continue

.. However, when questioned in relation to this, he has said that in a democratic society individuals have to make compromises with each other over conflicting ideas of how money should be handled.

Yeah right, .."compromises".., ...  
Power corrupts and absolute power.....

[JeanClaude]

@Maxx,

Clarification: Even under the fiat money system one  had (up till 1934 in mainland Europe) the 100% reserve requirement for the "Irregular-Deposit Contract".

So a fiat money system does not automaticly imply a fractional reserve system, although today we have both.

[WestCoast]

JeanClaude you basically seem to be saying that we should listen to you because you're a real smart, highly educated guy

I wrote: ....But i know people would rather be lazy and shout their mouth off instead of reading a 875+ page scientific work describing past and present FACTUAL banking laws....

I don't see people as "smart" or "stupid", I see them as "lazy" or "hardworking". I believe everybody has a goodworking engine between the ears, but if you do not fill it up with fuel. The engine is not going to do you much good.

Being ignorant is not cool and ignorance/lying is not a form of "opinion" either.

Liberalism (in all it forms) caters to lazy egos, these egos want an easy "backdoor" it to intellectual standing, just like liberalism caters to people who want an easy backdoor to the middle class . Buying houses and cars they cant afford.

you're a real smart, highly educated guy who works in international banking doing financial calculations that most people don't understand?

You need mathematical proof that stealing (by inflation) is wrong ?

Aren't those the type of bankers that brought about the current global recession?

Governments and central banks cause pump and dump cycles, please read the chapters I outlined in the book (you can download it as pdf). Bankers do what they have to do to survive this thievery. They position themselves on the right side of the fence for them (and it is not on the side you are standing).

The current recession that has caused major downsizing at ING?

Management used it as an excuse to cut away a lot of pork fat tissue (which would have happened anyway if the employees weren't protected by social labor laws).

JeanClaude I too have a degree in economics and spent 20+ years in banking.  The Austrian School is one of the smaller and less popular schools of thought in economics. Laissez-faire capitalism sounds like a good idea in theory but as we've seen though out the 20th century and earlier money tends to corrupt. 

The savings and loan scandal of the 1980's in the US, the current global recession and subprime mortgages, Enron, Bernard Madoff and many others are simply examples of what happens when government oversight either isn't in place or is not functioning as it should.  I'm know that government bears some responsibility for these and other economic problems but I don't think that giving banks, financial institutions and others an even freer hand in the economy is the answer.  Mater Amschel Rothschild the founder of the Rothschild family international banking dynasty said it best "Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes it’s laws".

Your point about the layoffs at ING is interesting.  You are all for freer free market capitalism but when it comes to layoffs at the company that you work for you are happy that the government social labour laws were there to prevent layoffs until it was ultimately necessary to secure government bail out money.

[JeanClaude]

JeanClaude I too have a degree in economics and spent 20+ years in banking.

   desk-clerc?

(jest)..OK, So you are totally OK with government mandated theft, by changing the legal ownership of the  Monetary Irregular-Deposit Contract?  (at the heart of the matter)

The Austrian School is one of the smaller and less popular schools of thought in economics.

Of course!! most people (a majority) like Obama,  because he promises them a free ride at the expense of others, and guess what,.., most economics/bankers tend to be just normal people too.

..Laissez-faire capitalism sounds like a good idea, [but]...

I think Laissez-faire is  a good idea, because I think that stealing is wrong. I am funny that way.

as we've seen though out the 20th century and earlier money tends to corrupt.

Keeping more of my own hard earned wealth is corrupting me?   I don't think so!

I'm know that government bears some responsibility

Your economics professor would be OK with a trillion dollar deficit a year and writing blank checks to cover toxic assets funded by the tax paying "Joe the plumber".  

for these and other economic problems but I don't think that giving banks, financial institutions and others an even freer hand in the economy is the answer.

Rockefeller quote: "..competition is a sin...".

The people hating  Laissez-faire the most are: bankers and established corporations. Your claim that bankers want more freedom is rubbish. Bankers (well not all of them) want more freedom at the expense of others,
We have a name for that , we call it socialism, not  Laissez-faire capitalism.

You are all for freer free market capitalism but when it comes to layoffs at the company that you work for you are happy that the government social labour laws were there to prevent layoffs

Reread! I was actually in favour of the layoffs. Less pork means the corporation will have more money for people who add value to their business.

[WestCoast]

JeanClaude I did a search on Money, Bank Credit, and Economic Cycles  and Jesus Huerta de Soto and found that he has a number of admirers for his work in economics and his book.  I've read several of his interviews and it's plain that he has admirers even in the USA.  

His solutions for this crisis and any future crisis (chapter 9 in his book) is in my opinion impossible to do and no nation on Earth, let alone all nations, will follow his advice.  From an interview he gave to the blog for JohnsonForAmerica.com (link below):

Josiah Schmidt: Does the Federal Reserve deserve thanks for anything it has done over the past few years?

Jesus Huerta de Soto: No. Central banks are the only institutions responsible for the financial crisis and the economic recession.

de Soto seems to be saying that the business world merely took advantage of what the Central bankers were offering and had no obligations for responsible money management on their own.  If this is true why would the same business world be any more responsible with laissez-faire capitalism? Same business world fewer rules, less oversight why wouldn't the same economic crisis happen?  De Soto doesn't say why the business world would be more willing to follow the rules in his world.  

Josiah Schmidt: What should the Fed do, at this point, to help bring this recession to an end?

Jesus Huerta de Soto: Central banks should mimic as close as possible the working of a purely private monetary system based on a 100 per cent reserve pure gold standard: A stable monetary supply (growing no more than 2 per cent per year); non-involvement with interest rates and strong separation of short term commercial banking from investment banking (i.e. reintroduction of a kind of Glass-Steagall act).

A world wide purely private monetary system is never, ever in the wildest dreams of any economist going to happen.  No nation on Earth would ever give up control of it's monetary system to the business world. How would we revert to a 100% reserve pure gold standard now?  The world economy is far, far larger than the current available supply of gold?  

Josiah Schmidt: What would, realistically, happen if we woke up tomorrow morning and the Federal Reserve’s charter had been revoked and the doors of the central bank were closed up?

Jesus Huerta de Soto: The transition to a sound monetary system is explained in detail in Chapter 9 of my book on Money, Bank Credit and Economic Cycles.

Complete chaos and undoubtedly a situation that would make Zimbabwe look like an economic paradise.  In chapter 9 De Soto quotes Laureano Figuerola y Ballester (1869) "it is necessary to leave “the choice of banking forms to each individual, who will know how to choose the best ones, according to particular circumstances of time and place".  In 1869 this might have been possible but in 2010 most people can't tell which cell phone plan is best for themselves, how would they ever be able to judge which bank is best when the information would undoubtedly be in legal form incomprehensible to anyone other than a lawyer?

Another quote from de Soto in chapter 9 "THE OBLIGATION OF ALL AGENTS IN A FREE-BANKING SYSTEM TO OBSERVE TRADITIONAL LEGAL RULES AND PRINCIPLES, PARTICULARLY A 100-PERCENT RESERVE REQUIREMENT ON DEMAND DEPOSITS".  This didn't work in the past when the economy was based on a gold standard why would it work in de Soto's version?  De Soto doesn't state why in his economic world all agents would abide by "a 100% reserve requirement on demand deposits.

http://garyjohnson2012.wordpress.com/2010/03/22/important-voices-johnsonforamerica-com-interviews-jesus-huerta-de-soto-author-of-money-bank-credit-and-economic-cycles/

[Maxx]

Jesus Huerta de Soto: Central banks should mimic as close as possible the working of a purely private monetary system based on a 100 per cent reserve pure gold standard: A stable monetary supply (growing no more than 2 per cent per year); non-involvement with interest rates and strong separation of short term commercial banking from investment banking (i.e. reintroduction of a kind of Glass-Steagall act).

A world wide purely private monetary system is never, ever in the wildest dreams of any economist going to happen.  No nation on Earth would ever give up control of it's monetary system to the business world. How would we revert to a 100% reserve pure gold standard now?  The world economy is far, far larger than the current available supply of gold?  

Two things. One, the growth of gold supply per year from mining is 2%. Two, the price of the metal would have to be far higher. It is been calculated to cover just the US currency in circulation and in the banks it would have to be $17,000 per ounce. Then there is silver. I haven't got any numbers off the top of my head on that. Figure in other commodities and perhaps land and we might get to something workable.

Complete chaos and undoubtedly a situation that would make Zimbabwe look like an economic paradise.

I believe this is going to happen. When it does a commodity based currency might be able to be sold to the public. However IMO a tightly controlled economic dictatorship is more likely to happen.

[Eduard]

what's an economic dictatorship?

[WestCoast]

Jesus Huerta de Soto: Central banks should mimic as close as possible the working of a purely private monetary system based on a 100 per cent reserve pure gold standard: A stable monetary supply (growing no more than 2 per cent per year); non-involvement with interest rates and strong separation of short term commercial banking from investment banking (i.e. reintroduction of a kind of Glass-Steagall act).

A world wide purely private monetary system is never, ever in the wildest dreams of any economist going to happen.  No nation on Earth would ever give up control of it's monetary system to the business world. How would we revert to a 100% reserve pure gold standard now?  The world economy is far, far larger than the current available supply of gold?  

Two things. One, the growth of gold supply per year from mining is 2%. Two, the price of the metal would have to be far higher. It is been calculated to cover just the US currency in circulation and in the banks it would have to be $17,000 per ounce. Then there is silver. I haven't got any numbers off the top of my head on that. Figure in other commodities and perhaps land and we might get to something workable.

Complete chaos and undoubtedly a situation that would make Zimbabwe look like an economic paradise.

I believe this is going to happen. When it does a commodity based currency might be able to be sold to the public. However IMO a tightly controlled economic dictatorship is more likely to happen.

At $17,000/ounce gold for just the US economy and figuring the US economy is about 25% of the world economy that means the price of gold would have to be at least $68,000/ounce.  That would be impractical.  Then what would replace gold for use in industry?

[JeanClaude]

A world wide purely private monetary system is never, ever in the wildest dreams of any economist going to happen.  

WestCoast: "Freedom for common subjects?, bullocks; never going to happen". I guess you would be  the one fighting on the side of King George III during the civil war.

I am not a liberal, I believe in individual freedom, and I am not talking about the "fake" freedom of the neo-cons, who were "first" to expand the money supply like a hockey stick (Bush 2004) or abolish the Gold standard (Nixon 1973).

No nation on Earth would ever give up control of it's monetary system to the business world.

Most countries on Earth are liberal/socialist or outright tyrannical (Islam,communism)! So what else is new? The reason why people love to move to the US is because its different from the rest.  But the rampant raping of the economy by Keynesian's is changing that.

 Freedom is baaaahd (Berkley "sheople" sound).  If I buy services (from "Ed" for example) who are you to mandate by lethal force (police-glock) how we should NOT trade. A gold backed security or any other currency we freely agree upon.

And yes,...the  economy would revert to the common people (Joe the plumber) where it was and has been before government took it away.

How would we revert to a 100% reserve pure gold standard now?  The world economy is far, far larger than the current available supply of gold?

You studied 4 years for an economics degree and you just said above sentence? You must be either joking or lying.  Even Keynesian's understand how a gold standard works, although they might not agree with it.

For the layman reading along:

At any time you can fix the USD against an ARBITRARY amount of gold in your national vault, of course a single USD wouldn't buy much gold. Just like a single USD didn't buy much gold when it was still on the gold standard.
But that is not the issue, the issue is that government cannot steal your existing savings through inflation (printing more money). For government to issue more currency they would have to acquire the equivalent value in gold in their vaults. A gold standard serves no other purpose then preventing government to steal your savings through debasing of the currency (rampant printing).

That is the SOLE reason why a gold standard is MANDATED in the US constitution. Preventing government abuse!

Another quote from de Soto in chapter 9 "THE OBLIGATION OF ALL AGENTS IN A FREE-BANKING SYSTEM TO OBSERVE TRADITIONAL LEGAL RULES AND PRINCIPLES,

Well you obviously disagree, that much is clear,

 I think that  bankers should not steal (aka OBSERVE TRADITIONAL LEGAL RULES AND PRINCIPLES) or risk going to jail.....  I kind of miss the old days!

PARTICULARLY A 100-PERCENT RESERVE REQUIREMENT ON DEMAND DEPOSITS".

100% reserve requirement, Yeah , if I had a oil storage company and I issued oil-certificates to clients (and charged them for storage) but secretly sold their oil. That would be considered fraud.  

If bankers do the same today,  it is legal!

in 2010 most people can't tell which cell phone plan is best for themselves, how would they ever be able to judge which bank is best

Absolutely agree, the supermarkets in the USSR had only one brand of soap, one kind of bread, one color of clothing, one type of sneakers.

giving people more choices is bad,( like choosing your own wife). Better let government make the choices for us.

PS, Say hi to Micheal More next time he visits!

[Eduard]

I grow dill, parsley and basil in my yard...am I in trouble? 

[JeanClaude]

I grow dill, parsley and basil in my yard...am I in trouble?  

I am not Joking Ed, some people got their backyard tomato planting destroyed by government because it violated interstate commerce laws.

They were unfairly competing with tomatoplanters in other states!

http://naissucks.com/wordpress/?tag=840-tags

If you grow tomatoes, you won’t be buying them, so if you don’t buy them, and since the store bought tomatoes likely cross state lines in their movement, you are affecting interstate commerce by growing tomatoes….This is precedent, and it is a very, very dangerous precedent.

[Boris]

I grow dill, parsley and basil in my yard...am I in trouble? 

Don't worry, Ed. Your little garden will be OK. I don't think I would be relying on Doreen for advice on the Interstate Commerce Act and gardening.  I really like the dialog between Claude and Moby. Is this how the Guerre de Cent Ans started?

I have been reading some of Gorky Guy's old posts. Is it possible that Andrew was/is Gorky Guy?  Is it possible that Moby has Multiple Personality Disorder? Are Jean Claude and Moby the same person engaged in a never ending argument involving multiple page bending quotes? My English friends tell me that there isn't much difference between a "Paddy" and a "Frog" anyway so I guess it is possible. 

Moby, I apologize to you in advance if you and Jean Claude are, in fact, two different personages. 

[cufflinks]

News from Peter Schiff's video blog today (April 2nd) - our socialist Marxist government just slipped in a currency control rider in the new "Jobs" bill - seems they want Euro and Swiss banks to deduct and forward 33% of each USA account holders funds on any withdrawals overseas???

Can't make this up:

http://www.europac.net/videoblog.asp?a=watch

[WestCoast]

News from Peter Schiff's video blog today (April 2nd) - our socialist Marxist government just slipped in a currency control rider in the new "Jobs" bill - seems they want Euro and Swiss banks to deduct and forward 33% of each USA account holders funds on any withdrawals overseas???

Can't make this up:

http://www.europac.net/videoblog.asp?a=watch

Unfortunately Peter Schiff misread the bill.  What the bill says is:
     These new reporting obligations for financial institutions will be enforced
        through the imposition of a 30-percent U.S. withholding tax on a wide
        range of U.S. payments to foreign financial institutions that do not satisfy
        the reporting obligations.

This means that the foreign financial institutions must report on US companies and persons who have investments in their institution or the US government will withhold 30% of US government payments to the foreign financial institution.  This is being done for tax compliance by US citizens.  After all Cuffy better the rich US citizens pay their taxes then you have to pay a little extra tax.

Cuffy if someone opens an account in Switzerland, the bank will not withhold any of the funds that they withdraw and send the funds to the US government, but they will report all the activity of the account to the US government.     

http://business.cch.com/briefings/jobsbill.pdf  on 1st page

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/business/28gret.html

[JeanClaude]

WestCoast:

After all Cuffy better the rich US citizens pay their taxes

Grace Commision Report:

100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government.

Mr "economist",  your taxes aren't paying for shit,

Ron Paul said it best
   "The Chinese are our masters now"




 

[JeanClaude]

I grow dill, parsley and basil in my yard...am I in trouble? 

Don't worry, Ed. Your little garden will be OK. I don't think I would be relying on Doreen for advice on the Interstate Commerce Act and gardening.  I really like the dialog between Claude and Moby. Is this how the Guerre de Cent Ans started?

I have been reading some of Gorky Guy's old posts. Is it possible that Andrew was/is Gorky Guy?  Is it possible that Moby has Multiple Personality Disorder? Are Jean Claude and Moby the same person engaged in a never ending argument involving multiple page bending quotes? My English friends tell me that there isn't much difference between a "Paddy" and a "Frog" anyway so I guess it is possible. 

Moby, I apologize to you in advance if you and Jean Claude are, in fact, two different personages. 

Eeeh, Moby only posted once in this thread (somewhere in the beginning), i think you are a bit lost.

[Maxx]

Under the program, foreign financial institutions
voluntarily report income earned and taxes withheld on
U.S.-source income, providing some assurance that taxes on
U.S.-source income sent offshore are properly withheld and
that income is properly reported. Foreign financial institutions
that are part of the QI program assume responsibility
for ensuring the proper imposition of the U.S. withholding
tax with respect to the foreign persons that hold accounts
with those institutions. This means that the foreign
financial institution agrees to collect identifying documentation
from its customers, withhold U.S tax based on that
documentation, and deposit the withheld tax with the IRS.
It also agrees to submit to periodic audits performed by
external auditors supervised by IRS examiners.

And with this American's living abroad will become the pariahs of the world's banks and financial institutions. Who will want to go through this hassle? Who will want their business?