Entitlement Attitude

[vwrw]

Recently, while I was reading theories of motivation, I learned that according to a study, the legacy of communism that people in Eastern Europe have to live with is the rampant entitlement attitude. That is, FSU people expect outcomes to be greater than their inputs. From your experiences, do you believe FSU women have the entitlement attitude?

If you think RW have or probably have the entitlement attitude, does it reflect only in their dealing with their government and employers or the attitude expands on to personal relationships too?  

People with the entitlement attitude typically take for granted what others do for them, and as a result, they often are perceived as ungrateful takers.  I think there are many people who would dislike to live with an ungrateful taker. Accordingly, many men (maybe even the majority of them) might come to the conclusion that FSU women are not good life partners after living with them for a while.

[1msmoby]

Well I voted no..  I'd love those who voted Yes/possibly yes to come forward ...and explain..

[mendeleyev]

VWRW, good topic and poll!

With Moby, I voted no also. Of course in any society you can run across those kind of folks. Heck, the USA is full of them now. Probably more than Russia!

Here is another spin on the subject: the years from 1988 to 2004 were very hard on the average person in the FSU. All vestiges of entitlement was swept away in a raging torrent. The very underpinnings of entitlement society were flushed down the economic toilet that had been the Soviet nightmare.

Making the transition to economic reality and responsibility taught citizens to be scrapy, street savvy and calculating. That is how they survived. Those who didn't -- didn't.

That was 2004 and this is almost 2010, only 6 short years ago. There are still some rough edges on some, but this might be a classic example of a condition being mislabeled. Perhaps some of what we label as "entitlement" might be a condition more closely atuned to assurance of survival.

One never knows how possessive we might be of our source of bread--until we've first had to experience going to bed hungry.

[2tallbill]

I was torn as how to vote as well, because I can definitely say that
SOME FSUW have an entitlement attitude, just as much as I can say
that many don't. I voted the middle option simply because some do
and some don't even though that was not the poll question.

If I were to have to answer it about all FSUW then I would vote no

There you go "clear as mud "

Bill

[Boris]

Natasha did. I always got the impression that she felt life had slighted her somehow. She was very cognizant of her stunning beauty and I think she was torn between the temptation of getting by on that and the somewhat conservative upbringing she received from her village-born parents.

Don't get me wrong. She worked long hours but you could tell she felt it was a little beneath her....

[Manny]

FSU people expect outcomes to be greater than their inputs. From your experiences, do you believe FSU women have the entitlement attitude?

If you think RW have or probably have the entitlement attitude, does it reflect only in their dealing with their government and employers or the attitude expands on to personal relationships too? 

I voted yes. I have encountered several facets of this.

Pre 2004, in Estonia, there was a great euphoria that Estonia was joining the EU. Many of the folks I know there developed this attitude of, "Yippee! We will be in the EU. We will be rich!"

When you asked them why this was, their response was usually, "Well, the EU will give us lots of money, build roads, we will be able to travel everywhere....." Ask them what they intended to give to the EU and they went blank.

After they joined, suddenly everyone thought they were entitled to what they perceived as an EU lifestyle. In practice, this meant everyone wanted to move out of the Soviet era apartments and into a new house in the suburbs. A black turbo diesel Audi A8 and a five bedroom house was their right wasn't it? They were EU now. They were just like Finns and Germans. 

The banks responded by lending every Tom, Dick and Harry oodles of cash to pursue these dreams. Two years later, the Hansabank was absorbed into the Bank of Sweden to stave off the bankruptcy caused by the defaults. The five bedroom houses stood empty and the black Audi A8's had all been trailered to Moscow and sold there. Reality hit quite hard.

I have spoken to Ukrainians who are similarly looking forward to the day when Ukraine is absorbed into the EU. They too expect to be "rich" overnight for no apparent reason other than because they deserve it. 

I have seen it too in some women who marry Western men. One woman I know of arrived and asked her husband what day the cleaner comes. His reply was, "She is already here; you are her". She was furious. To her, she had married a 25 years older guy, she was entitled to a life of servants and Prada. Scrubbing floors and Wal-Mart was not her idea of living in the west. She told my wife she was entitled to more.

A Russian guy I know in Estonia recently opened a wine website. He showed me his spiffy new website that was very expensive. I asked him who might pay these exorbitant prices. His reply was that they brought wines in from France. I asked him again the question and asked him to justify his prices. He looked at me like I was crazy and said, "Well I thought 200% profit was reasonable". I asked him how he intended to market his service and who his target clients were. His response was "We have a website". Last time I spoke to him he was drunk. I think he was testing the stock while still waiting for clients. 

In general, I have found that many Eastern Europeans and Russians do expect to do very little in return for very much. It is most evident in business, but also evident in many women [who marry foreigners] too. There are several websites and blogs warning people away from Russian women because of this entitlement attitude.

Most women can be brought down to earth with a reality check and an explanation as and when it crops up. It fades away after several years. It is part of the adaptation process of learning about your new society.

[1msmoby]

It is clear that this thread is 'provocative'...

After reading Manny's post  - I'm wondering did I answer the poll based on my Wife or RW in general..

I'm not too sure what entitlement RW got in communist times, and they certainly don't expect much 'fairness' when they get divorced .. ( esp. if the husband has money)

In my experience FSU RW often get the 'shi**y end of the stick' and are quite grateful for a partner that respects their wishes.. consults.. with them.

Perhaps they expect to get more from a WM in the form of 'respect' - but I think they are more than willing to put in to a relationship and not even measure what they get back...

MAYBE that ain't so true of Younger women - particularly ethnic RW from former soviet states.. I base my response on RW  .

Of the two Latvian RW I knew well, - if they were the only two RW I'd met, I might have voted YES !!  May be their IS a trend for 'Entitlement' if the westernisation process is 'abrupt' .. like in the Baltic States ?!

[workedforme]

I voted yes...not so much because all FSUW have this attitude, but I do believe the majority of FSUW who put themselves on the market for a foriegn husband do. I think the overall per capita entitlement attitude is worse in the states than the FSU!

My wife had a bit of it when we 1st met, took alot of discussions and a few storms but she got over it! 

[NAB]

I voted no as well.  Although I cannot speak for the rest of the FSU women, my wife is thankful for everything she has.
She even reminds me sometimes if I take something for granted.

[froid]

I put maybe.  Mostly because some do and some don't.  Some are spoiled and expect more than they put in.  Some are not spoiled and actually have a good work ethic.  This applies to FSU, Canadian, American Finnish or anywhere.  Just maybe the ratios are different.

[el_guero]

Great thread.

Unfortunately, I don't know any FSUW well enough to contribute.

[Ralph Kramden]

My wife has told me of a few ladies who will go to parties and compare notes to determine who has more in material posessions. I put maybe but am leaning toward yes. There are enough reasonable FSU woman to make me say maybe but there are enough unreasonable FSU woman to make me want to say yes. Why would any woman want to move to the US if her life will be unchanged? Most ladies want better but some want better than better.

[anjutka]

 
 
 
 
 
Of the two Latvian RW I knew well, - if they were the only two RW I'd met, I might have voted YES !!  May be their IS a trend for 'Entitlement' if the westernisation process is 'abrupt' .. like in the Baltic States ?!

guys.....dont mix russia with baltics)))....totally different people,behave,expectations ,etc etc etc....especially original latvians and estonias.....i know only few latvians who voted against to be in EU))))....most around me know dreaming to be under Sweden)))))(because most of banks are belong to Sweden)).....

baltic are always hope and KNOW that EU ll help them at any case)))))
russia knows that should be independent and nobody help us if we dont help us))))

from that comes bigggg   difference)))))

[anjutka]

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
In general, I have found that many Eastern Europeans and Russians do expect to do very little in return for very much. It is most evident in business, but also evident in many women [who marry foreigners] too. There are several websites and blogs warning people away from Russian women because of this entitlement attitude.

 

-about women who asked about cleaner))))we all know that such opinion were 15 years ago...but not now any more!!)))
-about wine website))...we try to make business with estonians))))- almost mission impossible)))....looks like they not belong to people who understand how to activate business

in general,russian knows what to expect)))))but of course if possible to give less and got a lot,why dont use it)))))))...with baltics its exists,with that i m agree))

[Manny]

FYI Anjutka, all the people I am acquainted with in Estonia are Russians. Estonians and Russians generally move in separate social circles.