The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation

[Manny]

This was prompted by a comment Bruce Lee made on another topic:

I do agree, this stage is the most difficult, my wife has been living in England for a few months now, and it is without doubt the most challenging part of the relationship! And takes a lot of patience from either side!

Nothing could be more correct! I remember our adaptation period well.

This is the period when the more unprepared amongst us are slapping ourselves on the back for a job well done; mission accomplished, etc. The object of your affection is now installed. It's downhill all the way now isn't it?

Then the reality bolt of adaptation hits, followed by her homesickness a few months later. The combination of both intertwined with an unprepared husband can sometimes kill a fledgling marriage.

Adaptation is a two way street. There is more to yours than being faced with a few oddball superstitions (most of which do fade away in time). You basically have to teach her how your society works from the beginning. Sounds easy doesn't it? I agree with Bruce, its the hardest part.

I wonder if a few of those who have done this, or especially those who are mid period like Bruce, might share some of their experiences in order that those approaching this period might be better prepared?

[markje]

I also had to deal with a big case of home-sickness.

I didn't slack off though, kept pushing effort and good humor in our relationship, therefore my GF is still with me.

She admitted it was much harder than she originally thought, emigrating to another country. Not seeing her family, friends, culture, basicly all what she loved.

The short time (2 weeks) we spent in Crimea for our summer vacation only made the situation worse, she longs to go back home... Therefore, we have agreed she will go home for a full month in May 2010. She will have this time to plan for our wedding in Crimea, see her friends and basicly try and quell the homesickness.

Why not more early, I heard people ask.. there are a few good reasons.

1) It could kill our relationship. My GF sees this as her biggest horror.
2) It would seriously impede her acclimatisation to the Dutch society.
3) It is good to have something to look forward to, so she does not slip into depression.
4) A Long time in Netherlands, feels different than a vacation. She must feel this difference.

Of course, buying a ticket for me is trivial, but I can't take vacation easily so she would have to go alone for any longer (2+ weeks) period of time.

Mark

[Bruce Lee]

This was prompted by a comment Bruce Lee made on another topic:

I do agree, this stage is the most difficult, my wife has been living in England for a few months now, and it is without doubt the most challenging part of the relationship! And takes a lot of patience from either side!

Nothing could be more correct! I remember our adaptation period well.

This is the period when the more unprepared amongst us are slapping ourselves on the back for a job well done; mission accomplished, etc. The object of your affection is now installed. It's downhill all the way now isn't it?

Then the reality bolt of adaptation hits, followed by her homesickness a few months later. The combination of both intertwined with an unprepared husband can sometimes kill a fledgling marriage.

Adaptation is a two way street. There is more to yours than being faced with a few oddball superstitions (most of which do fade away in time). You basically have to teach her how your society works from the beginning. Sounds easy doesn't it? I agree with Bruce, its the hardest part.

I wonder if a few of those who have done this, or especially those who are mid period like Bruce, might share some of their experiences in order that those approaching this period might be better prepared?

Hi, so far we have learned that the hardest part is adapting both our lives to meet the compromise. The things that I used to do when single have all but gone (of course, this is normal in any marriage)

As I have mentioned in a previous post, I come from a small town on the east coast of England my wife is from Vladivostok (I think you will agree, considerably bigger venue) she has already dubbed this "slug town" read my other post for explanation.

She dislikes, British food + supermarkets, public transport, the town, overweight people here, the fashion sense of British people, Doctors + Hospitals, my Gas cooker and most of all the heating in the house, it is never warm enough for her! These are just a few examples, I could write plenty more but I am at work.

[froid]

Mila is almost 9 months here in Canada now...

Small things that you take for granted, will be different to her, difficult for her, and even seem strange.  Small things that YOU cannot think of can be the cause of much grief and stress for her. 

For example buses and public transit!...Mila did not know that bus drivers here do NOT give change.  Simple enough problem but when you are trying to get somewhere, only have a $5 bill, and have a bus load of people staring at you while the bus driver lectures you it can become a much bigger issue.  To get the bus to stop at a stop you ring the bell...Did I think to TELL Mila that directly...no, she had to learn it.  Another issue.  To take a couple buses or a combination of bus and subway is done with one payment...just remember to get a transfer...Mila had to have this explained to her.  These little issues of managing to get somewhere on the bus, while at the same time trying not to get lost in a strange new place can make any simple trip by public transit much much more difficult and stressful. 

Now extrapolate these small difficulties to every single interaction in her new world and you can see how much more stress and difficulty she can have. 

 

[froid]

Another thing...Dependancy...

Mila is doing very well here.  Making friends both inside and out of work.  Going all over the city by public transit for interviews.  We have found many places to buy Russian goods.  She is not homesick.  Communicates with her family via skype video chat almost every week.   Doesn't miss being there though.  Is enrolled in a course at a local college to learn more about the Canadian ways of doing things in business.  Will be taking her driving test shortly. 

Despite all this...she needs me.  I am not complaining of course.  But you have to realize that she needs me more than someone who is local would.  I am her connection to Canada and I help in her life more than I know.  If I get sent away on business or I take a trip to a football game for a whole Sunday, she is suddenly limited.  She has fewer friends than a local would have here.  She cannot get around as easily by transit than she can with me driving.  If she wants to figure out something to do she doesn't have the knowledge of the city that I could provide.  And even if she does find something on the net or in the paper she wants to go see or do, she cannot just do it easily like she can when I am around. 

When I bring up the fact that I have 4 weeks of vacation and she only has 2 and I would like to use 1 week to visit my relatives in Finland she is not happy.  I have used every bit of vacation in Russia over the last few years so now that she is here I want to use some of it to visit my relatives in Finland who are asking when I will visit again.  She is less reluctant to see me go on a trip like this not because she worries about me being on my own, she worries about being alone for a week herself.  Our comprimise consists of me extending part of my trip to Russia in June with a sidetrip to Finland.  Maybe not for a week, only for a few days even. 

[Bruce Lee]

Another thing...Dependancy...

Mila is doing very well here.  Making friends both inside and out of work.  Going all over the city by public transit for interviews.  We have found many places to buy Russian goods.  She is not homesick.  Communicates with her family via skype video chat almost every week.   Doesn't miss being there though.  Is enrolled in a course at a local college to learn more about the Canadian ways of doing things in business.  Will be taking her driving test shortly. 

Despite all this...she needs me.  I am not complaining of course.  But you have to realize that she needs me more than someone who is local would.  I am her connection to Canada and I help in her life more than I know.  If I get sent away on business or I take a trip to a football game for a whole Sunday, she is suddenly limited.  She has fewer friends than a local would have here.  She cannot get around as easily by transit than she can with me driving.  If she wants to figure out something to do she doesn't have the knowledge of the city that I could provide.  And even if she does find something on the net or in the paper she wants to go see or do, she cannot just do it easily like she can when I am around. 

When I bring up the fact that I have 4 weeks of vacation and she only has 2 and I would like to use 1 week to visit my relatives in Finland she is not happy.  I have used every bit of vacation in Russia over the last few years so now that she is here I want to use some of it to visit my relatives in Finland who are asking when I will visit again.  She is less reluctant to see me go on a trip like this not because she worries about me being on my own, she worries about being alone for a week herself.  Our comprimise consists of me extending part of my trip to Russia in June with a sidetrip to Finland.  Maybe not for a week, only for a few days even. 

Dependency is a very good point, every spare moment we have is spent together, the only time that we do something independent is when I am at work.

She finds getting around the town very simple and has only got lost once, luckily we live in the age of mobile phones so if there are any problems I get a phone call straight away! I have a small advantage because the town is pretty small so she is able to find her way around town, while I am working! Her English is high standard so communication is fine with shops etc.

[mendeleyev]

For example buses and public transit!...Mila did not know that bus drivers here do NOT give change.  Simple enough problem but when you are trying to get somewhere, only have a $5 bill, and have a bus load of people staring at you while the bus driver lectures you it can become a much bigger issue.  To get the bus to stop at a stop you ring the bell...Did I think to TELL Mila that directly...no, she had to learn it.  Another issue.  To take a couple buses or a combination of bus and subway is done with one payment...just remember to get a transfer...Mila had to have this explained to her.  These little issues of managing to get somewhere on the bus, while at the same time trying not to get lost in a strange new place can make any simple trip by public transit much much more difficult and stressful.

Froid, both of your posts are filled with good information!

Most USA city buses don't give change either, however it's my experience that to ask for change (from a driver) in Russia is to be either ignored altogether or to be yelled at and then ignored.

Of course in Russia, until the large cities installed the front turnstiles, one could enter a bus at from or back and often a cashier rode the busier routes walking up and down the isles to collect tickets or sell tickets. That happens still on routes with older buses and of course in smaller cities.

The Phoenx trains are on an "honour" system as you buy a ticket at an automated machine kiosk, activate it, but for the sake of speed there is no ticket collection when entering the train. Transit police frequently patrol and then check for tickets. With fines starting over $100 and $500 on a repeat offense, its just smarter to buy a ticket. Mrs Mendeleyeva is astounded at this system and is convinced that 99.9% of all riders are cheating.

The amount of vacation time I have each year is also so much different from her system of summers off to spend at the dacha and long New Year holidays, all paid of course.

[skiingandrunning]

This is a good thread as it's something I have thought about as I have dated a few FSUW. 

I would be curious about what those of have traveled the path before me would say worked best in their experience?  In the back of my mind I have thought that it would be best to get the person integrated into local society as quickly as possible but has this been counter-productive for some?

[froid]

Things to help adjust...

One thing that is a godsend for movies and tv....SUBTITLES!!!

I wont get or rent a DVD unless it has english subtitles now.  Not because she needs it, but because it just helps her and Kirill.  It just makes it easier to watch for them and they learn as they watch instead of missing bits. 

I am now used to sometimes feeling like I am back in Russia...

Whether it is a trip to Yummy Market to buy Russian goods and chocolate, or a visit to one of Mila's Russian friends, there are times when everything around me is Russian.  Russian food, drink, language, customs, etc.  I treat it like a mini-vacation...I even bring my lonely planet phrasebook with me for fun and use it. 

Embrace your culture, Russian culture, and OTHER ones too...

We first started off watching some Russian movies or cartoons sometimes to give Mila and Kirill a break from ALL English all the time.  Now we watch movies and shows in any and every language.  So far mostly French and one Spanish film.  That way "I" have to watch the subtitles TOO.  Makes it more fair.  Tomorrow night is Finnish Comedy Movie night.  Mila is already making jokes about "Finnish humour".  I will be making a Finnish dinner to go with it.   

[skiingandrunning]

It is VERY hard for FSUW to find a commensurate job - both in satisfaction and relative pay..  Many ladies feel frustrated by this.

This is something Moby wrote in another thread, but I thought it was a good question for this one as I have often been asked by FSUW, I was communicating with, what the job prospects might be here.  I have also heard a group of FSUW complain about this once at a party I attended here in my city as they were saying it's due to discrimination.  

When I asked a similar question on RUA, several of the people who responded said no this is not true.  But, I get the general sense that it might be true, not because of any kind of discrimination, as I feel potential deficiencies in language and local HR people not recognizing the ladies credentials play a bigger part.  So I'm curious what others think about this and how big a part do you think this plays in the potential dissatisfaction of FSUW once they move to the west (granted, we're talking about a lady who had a really good job previously and wants to continue her career)?

A second question is, what's the best way to overcome this problem as I have thought of volunteering to get experience similar to what Mrs. Moby is doing (when I have mentioned this to FSUW they have usually respond with something similar to "you mean work and not get paid"), going back to school to obtain a degree in your host county, or is there something more obvious that I'm overlooking?

[froid]

Good questions Ski.

It is more difficult for new immigrants to get employed and to get employed at the same level, that is for sure.  I posted this article in the Canadian chat but it fits here very well now...

Two-thirds of university-educated recent immigrants to Canada are underemployed in jobs requiring at most a college education or apprenticeship, according to a Statistics Canada report released Monday.

Looking at Canada's immigrant labour market in 2008, the report found that immigrant wages were lower while part-time work and temporary employment were more common than among Canadian-born workers. However, after 10 years in Canada, immigrant employment looks similar to that of their Canadian-born counterparts.

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2256280

There are probably many factors that come into play in this...discrimination, language, local experience, local HR personel not knowing how to evaluate someone from Russia and their experience and credentials. 

Does it add to dissatisfaction with Mila and the other immigrants I know...yes for sure.  Mila would be considered underemployed right now, but is working towards correcting that.  Another couple we know have given up their original careers and he started his own company and she helps part time for that and is a stay at home mom the rest of the time.  Another guy is back in school to change careers.  Another guy is still running a business out of country until he can setup one here and sell that one he flies out of country often. 

Of course we also know a few that are working in their field and doing very well. 

The number one thing for successful employment here is probably language.  Just like I wouldn't be very likely to find similar employment in Russia with no Russian, someone from abroad should make their first priority language.  Either get tested to be able to put a value on what language skills they have, or begin courses right away. 

After that there are two things to work on...local experience and local appraisal of their credentials. 

Volunteer for local charities, especially ones that HELP other immigrants.  This gives you local experience, local references, and also since they are in the business to help immigrants you learn how to help yourself at the same time.  This was key for Mila. 

If you are in a profession that has any sort of "certification" begin the path to certification in your new homeland.  Even if it is just taking the first course or test out of many for certification you start to show that you are learning the "local" rules or knowledge needed for your profession.

School is always good.  But if she has a degree that can be assessed as equilalent to something here, maybe she doesn't need ANOTHER degree.  A quicker way may be to take continuing education courses in her field here, to learn the differences between what she knows from before and what she needs to know now...without 4 years of University.  These can be done at night often and allows her to also work.

Mila told me a story of some girl that came here, had no English at first and no work to start.  She started as a farm worker and now has a degree here and is learning French as well as English and is very successful after a few years. 

[Rasputin]

There are probably many factors that come into play in this...discrimination, language, local experience, local HR personel not knowing how to evaluate someone from Russia and their experience and credentials. 

I would add not getting decent advice on how to properly market oneself when looking for a job or relying on shoddy advice (usually fellow immigrants)  The problem is that immigrants often go to "job counselors" whose only real experience is being a job counselor. They write mediocre resumés and then don't really give good advice IMHO as to how to effectively look for a job and prepare oneself for the interview. I have helped more than my fair share of immigrants and the ones who actually were willing to take advice got jobs. 

[WestCoast]

Froid's comments about immigrants having trouble finding work are true.  There is a website that is critical of Canada's immigration system, http://www.notcanada.com/ , especially with regard to skilled immigrants like doctors.  I think that the video is an exaggeration is certain areas but I also believe that skilled immigrants should be aware that they will not likely have the same type of job they had in their native countries nor enjoy the same status in Canada that they had in their home countries.

Another big problem immigrants from non English speaking countries have is their level of English.  Many come to Canada thinking that they speak, read and comprehend English at a level acceptable for employment.  Almost all are disappointed that their level of English is not nearly as good as they originally thought.

[ldelo]

There are probably many factors that come into play in this...discrimination, language, local experience, local HR personel not knowing how to evaluate someone from Russia and their experience and credentials.

I would add not getting decent advice on how to properly market oneself when looking for a job or relying on shoddy advice (usually fellow immigrants)  The problem is that immigrants often go to "job counselors" whose only real experience is being a job counselor. They write mediocre resumés and then don't really give good advice IMHO as to how to effectively look for a job and prepare oneself for the interview. I have helped more than my fair share of immigrants and the ones who actually were willing to take advice got jobs. 

I'll second the notion of the immigrants taking advice from other immigrants issue, that was one of those "Honey, do these pants make me look fat?" issues with M.

For although M would ask Americans' advice (inlcuding mine), in the end she'd consult her Russian pals, they'd decide the Americans' advice was collectively worth a few kopecks, and then she'd set of to do what the Russians had decided.

For the most part things did not work as she/they had planned, at which point she'd come to me all frustrated and spitting nails because her plans had not worked, we'd talk things out, I'd advise her how I'd proceed...

After which she'd huddle up with her Russian friends...

Rinse/repeat.

[Boris]

I promised Tanya that she would be able to go home at least once a year and stay as long as she saw fit. She has a son who is a student at the Maritime Academy in Odessa. Great kid. Very respectful. I get a lot of vacation time but I also have family responsibilities here so my trips would probably be limited to two weeks at a time like Markje.