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Author Topic: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation  (Read 7720 times)

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Offline Manny

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The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« on: November 25, 2009, 02:46:36 AM »
This was prompted by a comment Bruce Lee made on another topic:

I do agree, this stage is the most difficult, my wife has been living in England for a few months now, and it is without doubt the most challenging part of the relationship! And takes a lot of patience from either side!

Nothing could be more correct! I remember our adaptation period well.

This is the period when the more unprepared amongst us are slapping ourselves on the back for a job well done; mission accomplished, etc. The object of your affection is now installed. It's downhill all the way now isn't it?

Then the reality bolt of adaptation hits, followed by her homesickness a few months later. The combination of both intertwined with an unprepared husband can sometimes kill a fledgling marriage.

Adaptation is a two way street. There is more to yours than being faced with a few oddball superstitions (most of which do fade away in time). You basically have to teach her how your society works from the beginning. Sounds easy doesn't it? I agree with Bruce, its the hardest part.

I wonder if a few of those who have done this, or especially those who are mid period like Bruce, might share some of their experiences in order that those approaching this period might be better prepared?

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2009, 03:21:45 AM »
I also had to deal with a big case of home-sickness.

I didn't slack off though, kept pushing effort and good humor in our relationship, therefore my GF is still with me.

She admitted it was much harder than she originally thought, emigrating to another country. Not seeing her family, friends, culture, basicly all what she loved.

The short time (2 weeks) we spent in Crimea for our summer vacation only made the situation worse, she longs to go back home... Therefore, we have agreed she will go home for a full month in May 2010. She will have this time to plan for our wedding in Crimea, see her friends and basicly try and quell the homesickness.

Why not more early, I heard people ask.. there are a few good reasons.

1) It could kill our relationship. My GF sees this as her biggest horror.
2) It would seriously impede her acclimatisation to the Dutch society.
3) It is good to have something to look forward to, so she does not slip into depression.
4) A Long time in Netherlands, feels different than a vacation. She must feel this difference.

Of course, buying a ticket for me is trivial, but I can't take vacation easily so she would have to go alone for any longer (2+ weeks) period of time.

Mark

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Offline Bruce Lee

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2009, 03:59:38 AM »
This was prompted by a comment Bruce Lee made on another topic:

I do agree, this stage is the most difficult, my wife has been living in England for a few months now, and it is without doubt the most challenging part of the relationship! And takes a lot of patience from either side!

Nothing could be more correct! I remember our adaptation period well.

This is the period when the more unprepared amongst us are slapping ourselves on the back for a job well done; mission accomplished, etc. The object of your affection is now installed. It's downhill all the way now isn't it?

Then the reality bolt of adaptation hits, followed by her homesickness a few months later. The combination of both intertwined with an unprepared husband can sometimes kill a fledgling marriage.

Adaptation is a two way street. There is more to yours than being faced with a few oddball superstitions (most of which do fade away in time). You basically have to teach her how your society works from the beginning. Sounds easy doesn't it? I agree with Bruce, its the hardest part.

I wonder if a few of those who have done this, or especially those who are mid period like Bruce, might share some of their experiences in order that those approaching this period might be better prepared?



Hi, so far we have learned that the hardest part is adapting both our lives to meet the compromise. The things that I used to do when single have all but gone (of course, this is normal in any marriage)

As I have mentioned in a previous post, I come from a small town on the east coast of England my wife is from Vladivostok (I think you will agree, considerably bigger venue) she has already dubbed this "slug town" read my other post for explanation.

She dislikes, British food + supermarkets, public transport, the town, overweight people here, the fashion sense of British people, Doctors + Hospitals, my Gas cooker and most of all the heating in the house, it is never warm enough for her! These are just a few examples, I could write plenty more but I am at work.
If you get a minute check out Bruce's TR - Its not quite finished, however its still a pretty good read IMHO.

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Offline froid

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2009, 07:39:47 AM »
Mila is almost 9 months here in Canada now...

Small things that you take for granted, will be different to her, difficult for her, and even seem strange.  Small things that YOU cannot think of can be the cause of much grief and stress for her. 

For example buses and public transit!...Mila did not know that bus drivers here do NOT give change.  Simple enough problem but when you are trying to get somewhere, only have a $5 bill, and have a bus load of people staring at you while the bus driver lectures you it can become a much bigger issue.  To get the bus to stop at a stop you ring the bell...Did I think to TELL Mila that directly...no, she had to learn it.  Another issue.  To take a couple buses or a combination of bus and subway is done with one payment...just remember to get a transfer...Mila had to have this explained to her.  These little issues of managing to get somewhere on the bus, while at the same time trying not to get lost in a strange new place can make any simple trip by public transit much much more difficult and stressful. 

Now extrapolate these small difficulties to every single interaction in her new world and you can see how much more stress and difficulty she can have. 

 
Look, we're gonna spend half the night driving around the Hills looking for this one party and you're going to say it sucks and we're all gonna leave and then we're gonna go look for this other party. But all the parties and all the bars, they all suck. <-Same goes for forums!

Offline froid

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2009, 08:03:23 AM »
Another thing...Dependancy...

Mila is doing very well here.  Making friends both inside and out of work.  Going all over the city by public transit for interviews.  We have found many places to buy Russian goods.  She is not homesick.  Communicates with her family via skype video chat almost every week.   Doesn't miss being there though.  Is enrolled in a course at a local college to learn more about the Canadian ways of doing things in business.  Will be taking her driving test shortly. 

Despite all this...she needs me.  I am not complaining of course.  But you have to realize that she needs me more than someone who is local would.  I am her connection to Canada and I help in her life more than I know.  If I get sent away on business or I take a trip to a football game for a whole Sunday, she is suddenly limited.  She has fewer friends than a local would have here.  She cannot get around as easily by transit than she can with me driving.  If she wants to figure out something to do she doesn't have the knowledge of the city that I could provide.  And even if she does find something on the net or in the paper she wants to go see or do, she cannot just do it easily like she can when I am around. 

When I bring up the fact that I have 4 weeks of vacation and she only has 2 and I would like to use 1 week to visit my relatives in Finland she is not happy.  I have used every bit of vacation in Russia over the last few years so now that she is here I want to use some of it to visit my relatives in Finland who are asking when I will visit again.  She is less reluctant to see me go on a trip like this not because she worries about me being on my own, she worries about being alone for a week herself.  Our comprimise consists of me extending part of my trip to Russia in June with a sidetrip to Finland.  Maybe not for a week, only for a few days even. 

Look, we're gonna spend half the night driving around the Hills looking for this one party and you're going to say it sucks and we're all gonna leave and then we're gonna go look for this other party. But all the parties and all the bars, they all suck. <-Same goes for forums!

Offline Bruce Lee

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2009, 08:13:05 AM »
Another thing...Dependancy...

Mila is doing very well here.  Making friends both inside and out of work.  Going all over the city by public transit for interviews.  We have found many places to buy Russian goods.  She is not homesick.  Communicates with her family via skype video chat almost every week.   Doesn't miss being there though.  Is enrolled in a course at a local college to learn more about the Canadian ways of doing things in business.  Will be taking her driving test shortly. 

Despite all this...she needs me.  I am not complaining of course.  But you have to realize that she needs me more than someone who is local would.  I am her connection to Canada and I help in her life more than I know.  If I get sent away on business or I take a trip to a football game for a whole Sunday, she is suddenly limited.  She has fewer friends than a local would have here.  She cannot get around as easily by transit than she can with me driving.  If she wants to figure out something to do she doesn't have the knowledge of the city that I could provide.  And even if she does find something on the net or in the paper she wants to go see or do, she cannot just do it easily like she can when I am around. 

When I bring up the fact that I have 4 weeks of vacation and she only has 2 and I would like to use 1 week to visit my relatives in Finland she is not happy.  I have used every bit of vacation in Russia over the last few years so now that she is here I want to use some of it to visit my relatives in Finland who are asking when I will visit again.  She is less reluctant to see me go on a trip like this not because she worries about me being on my own, she worries about being alone for a week herself.  Our comprimise consists of me extending part of my trip to Russia in June with a sidetrip to Finland.  Maybe not for a week, only for a few days even. 



Dependency is a very good point, every spare moment we have is spent together, the only time that we do something independent is when I am at work.

She finds getting around the town very simple and has only got lost once, luckily we live in the age of mobile phones so if there are any problems I get a phone call straight away! I have a small advantage because the town is pretty small so she is able to find her way around town, while I am working! Her English is high standard so communication is fine with shops etc.
If you get a minute check out Bruce's TR - Its not quite finished, however its still a pretty good read IMHO.

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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2009, 08:18:27 AM »
Quote
For example buses and public transit!...Mila did not know that bus drivers here do NOT give change.  Simple enough problem but when you are trying to get somewhere, only have a $5 bill, and have a bus load of people staring at you while the bus driver lectures you it can become a much bigger issue.  To get the bus to stop at a stop you ring the bell...Did I think to TELL Mila that directly...no, she had to learn it.  Another issue.  To take a couple buses or a combination of bus and subway is done with one payment...just remember to get a transfer...Mila had to have this explained to her.  These little issues of managing to get somewhere on the bus, while at the same time trying not to get lost in a strange new place can make any simple trip by public transit much much more difficult and stressful.

Froid, both of your posts are filled with good information!

Most USA city buses don't give change either, however it's my experience that to ask for change (from a driver) in Russia is to be either ignored altogether or to be yelled at and then ignored.

Of course in Russia, until the large cities installed the front turnstiles, one could enter a bus at from or back and often a cashier rode the busier routes walking up and down the isles to collect tickets or sell tickets. That happens still on routes with older buses and of course in smaller cities.

The Phoenx trains are on an "honour" system as you buy a ticket at an automated machine kiosk, activate it, but for the sake of speed there is no ticket collection when entering the train. Transit police frequently patrol and then check for tickets. With fines starting over $100 and $500 on a repeat offense, its just smarter to buy a ticket. Mrs Mendeleyeva is astounded at this system and is convinced that 99.9% of all riders are cheating.

The amount of vacation time I have each year is also so much different from her system of summers off to spend at the dacha and long New Year holidays, all paid of course.

Offline skiingandrunning

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2009, 08:36:14 AM »
This is a good thread as it's something I have thought about as I have dated a few FSUW. 

I would be curious about what those of have traveled the path before me would say worked best in their experience?  In the back of my mind I have thought that it would be best to get the person integrated into local society as quickly as possible but has this been counter-productive for some?

Offline froid

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2009, 08:47:04 AM »
Things to help adjust...

One thing that is a godsend for movies and tv....SUBTITLES!!!

I wont get or rent a DVD unless it has english subtitles now.  Not because she needs it, but because it just helps her and Kirill.  It just makes it easier to watch for them and they learn as they watch instead of missing bits. 

I am now used to sometimes feeling like I am back in Russia...

Whether it is a trip to Yummy Market to buy Russian goods and chocolate, or a visit to one of Mila's Russian friends, there are times when everything around me is Russian.  Russian food, drink, language, customs, etc.  I treat it like a mini-vacation...I even bring my lonely planet phrasebook with me for fun and use it. 

Embrace your culture, Russian culture, and OTHER ones too...

We first started off watching some Russian movies or cartoons sometimes to give Mila and Kirill a break from ALL English all the time.  Now we watch movies and shows in any and every language.  So far mostly French and one Spanish film.  That way "I" have to watch the subtitles TOO.  Makes it more fair.  Tomorrow night is Finnish Comedy Movie night.  Mila is already making jokes about "Finnish humour".  I will be making a Finnish dinner to go with it.   
Look, we're gonna spend half the night driving around the Hills looking for this one party and you're going to say it sucks and we're all gonna leave and then we're gonna go look for this other party. But all the parties and all the bars, they all suck. <-Same goes for forums!

Offline skiingandrunning

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2009, 12:56:02 PM »
Quote
It is VERY hard for FSUW to find a commensurate job - both in satisfaction and relative pay..  Many ladies feel frustrated by this.

This is something Moby wrote in another thread, but I thought it was a good question for this one as I have often been asked by FSUW, I was communicating with, what the job prospects might be here.  I have also heard a group of FSUW complain about this once at a party I attended here in my city as they were saying it's due to discrimination.  

When I asked a similar question on RUA, several of the people who responded said no this is not true.  But, I get the general sense that it might be true, not because of any kind of discrimination, as I feel potential deficiencies in language and local HR people not recognizing the ladies credentials play a bigger part.  So I'm curious what others think about this and how big a part do you think this plays in the potential dissatisfaction of FSUW once they move to the west (granted, we're talking about a lady who had a really good job previously and wants to continue her career)?

A second question is, what's the best way to overcome this problem as I have thought of volunteering to get experience similar to what Mrs. Moby is doing (when I have mentioned this to FSUW they have usually respond with something similar to "you mean work and not get paid"), going back to school to obtain a degree in your host county, or is there something more obvious that I'm overlooking?

Offline froid

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2009, 01:27:17 PM »
Good questions Ski.

It is more difficult for new immigrants to get employed and to get employed at the same level, that is for sure.  I posted this article in the Canadian chat but it fits here very well now...

Quote
Two-thirds of university-educated recent immigrants to Canada are underemployed in jobs requiring at most a college education or apprenticeship, according to a Statistics Canada report released Monday.

Looking at Canada's immigrant labour market in 2008, the report found that immigrant wages were lower while part-time work and temporary employment were more common than among Canadian-born workers. However, after 10 years in Canada, immigrant employment looks similar to that of their Canadian-born counterparts.

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2256280

There are probably many factors that come into play in this...discrimination, language, local experience, local HR personel not knowing how to evaluate someone from Russia and their experience and credentials. 

Does it add to dissatisfaction with Mila and the other immigrants I know...yes for sure.  Mila would be considered underemployed right now, but is working towards correcting that.  Another couple we know have given up their original careers and he started his own company and she helps part time for that and is a stay at home mom the rest of the time.  Another guy is back in school to change careers.  Another guy is still running a business out of country until he can setup one here and sell that one he flies out of country often. 

Of course we also know a few that are working in their field and doing very well. 

The number one thing for successful employment here is probably language.  Just like I wouldn't be very likely to find similar employment in Russia with no Russian, someone from abroad should make their first priority language.  Either get tested to be able to put a value on what language skills they have, or begin courses right away. 

After that there are two things to work on...local experience and local appraisal of their credentials. 

Volunteer for local charities, especially ones that HELP other immigrants.  This gives you local experience, local references, and also since they are in the business to help immigrants you learn how to help yourself at the same time.  This was key for Mila. 

If you are in a profession that has any sort of "certification" begin the path to certification in your new homeland.  Even if it is just taking the first course or test out of many for certification you start to show that you are learning the "local" rules or knowledge needed for your profession.

School is always good.  But if she has a degree that can be assessed as equilalent to something here, maybe she doesn't need ANOTHER degree.  A quicker way may be to take continuing education courses in her field here, to learn the differences between what she knows from before and what she needs to know now...without 4 years of University.  These can be done at night often and allows her to also work.

Mila told me a story of some girl that came here, had no English at first and no work to start.  She started as a farm worker and now has a degree here and is learning French as well as English and is very successful after a few years. 
Look, we're gonna spend half the night driving around the Hills looking for this one party and you're going to say it sucks and we're all gonna leave and then we're gonna go look for this other party. But all the parties and all the bars, they all suck. <-Same goes for forums!

Offline Rasputin

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2009, 02:04:26 PM »
There are probably many factors that come into play in this...discrimination, language, local experience, local HR personel not knowing how to evaluate someone from Russia and their experience and credentials. 

I would add not getting decent advice on how to properly market oneself when looking for a job or relying on shoddy advice (usually fellow immigrants)  :popcorn: The problem is that immigrants often go to "job counselors" whose only real experience is being a job counselor. They write mediocre resumés and then don't really give good advice IMHO as to how to effectively look for a job and prepare oneself for the interview. I have helped more than my fair share of immigrants and the ones who actually were willing to take advice got jobs. 

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Offline WestCoast

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2009, 02:59:17 PM »
Froid's comments about immigrants having trouble finding work are true.  There is a website that is critical of Canada's immigration system, http://www.notcanada.com/ , especially with regard to skilled immigrants like doctors.  I think that the video is an exaggeration is certain areas but I also believe that skilled immigrants should be aware that they will not likely have the same type of job they had in their native countries nor enjoy the same status in Canada that they had in their home countries.

Another big problem immigrants from non English speaking countries have is their level of English.  Many come to Canada thinking that they speak, read and comprehend English at a level acceptable for employment.  Almost all are disappointed that their level of English is not nearly as good as they originally thought.
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Offline ldelo

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2009, 04:23:13 PM »
There are probably many factors that come into play in this...discrimination, language, local experience, local HR personel not knowing how to evaluate someone from Russia and their experience and credentials.

I would add not getting decent advice on how to properly market oneself when looking for a job or relying on shoddy advice (usually fellow immigrants)  :popcorn: The problem is that immigrants often go to "job counselors" whose only real experience is being a job counselor. They write mediocre resumés and then don't really give good advice IMHO as to how to effectively look for a job and prepare oneself for the interview. I have helped more than my fair share of immigrants and the ones who actually were willing to take advice got jobs. 


I'll second the notion of the immigrants taking advice from other immigrants issue, that was one of those "Honey, do these pants make me look fat?" issues with M.

For although M would ask Americans' advice (inlcuding mine), in the end she'd consult her Russian pals, they'd decide the Americans' advice was collectively worth a few kopecks, and then she'd set of to do what the Russians had decided.

For the most part things did not work as she/they had planned, at which point she'd come to me all frustrated and spitting nails because her plans had not worked, we'd talk things out, I'd advise her how I'd proceed...

After which she'd huddle up with her Russian friends...

Rinse/repeat.


Offline Boris

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2009, 06:30:18 PM »
I promised Tanya that she would be able to go home at least once a year and stay as long as she saw fit. She has a son who is a student at the Maritime Academy in Odessa. Great kid. Very respectful. I get a lot of vacation time but I also have family responsibilities here so my trips would probably be limited to two weeks at a time like Markje.

Offline skiingandrunning

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2009, 08:16:38 PM »
Quote
For the most part things did not work as she/they had planned, at which point she'd come to me all frustrated and spitting nails because her plans had not worked, we'd talk things out, I'd advise her how I'd proceed...

After which she'd huddle up with her Russian friends...

Rinse/repeat.

Idelo, you must have been a patient person as I'm sure that would drive most people crazy.  Your comment takes me back to an earlier thought, is it better to try and integrate your new wife with mostly people of your own country (assuming she speaks good English) or is that for the most part impossible as I realize it might be in the DNA for people to seek out other people of their culture (in my discussions I have had with FSUW, I always say that I think it's better to have more American friends here as it'll help them integrate faster, but look at me as I'm 10 trips into the adventure and still looking  :( )?

Offline workedforme

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2009, 09:19:21 PM »
Quote
For the most part things did not work as she/they had planned, at which point she'd come to me all frustrated and spitting nails because her plans had not worked, we'd talk things out, I'd advise her how I'd proceed...

After which she'd huddle up with her Russian friends...

Rinse/repeat.

Idelo, you must have been a patient person as I'm sure that would drive most people crazy.  Your comment takes me back to an earlier thought, is it better to try and integrate your new wife with mostly people of your own country (assuming she speaks good English) or is that for the most part impossible as I realize it might be in the DNA for people to seek out other people of their culture (in my discussions I have had with FSUW, I always say that I think it's better to have more American friends here as it'll help them integrate faster, but look at me as I'm 10 trips into the adventure and still looking  :( )?

You bring up a good point! Before my wife came to the US our interpreter friend sternly warned me! Don't buy Russian TV because she will never learn English if you do and KEEP HER AWAY FROM OTHER FSUW!

I must say our 1st 2 years together the only times we progressed problem wise from a shower to a major storm was after interacting with other FSUW! I got so tired of most of the women we met! I drilled my wife about not flaunting anything(financially) we might have. She was a good girl and didn't but had to endure the nose in the air attitude of quite a few. The otherside of the fence would be when she would push me to keep up with the FSU B*tches! I have never been one to keep up with the Jones! The funniest part was a couple I really thought we would become really good friends with. Did alot together and had good times. BUT! The I have to be better than you always showed a bit with my wife's friend. Well...Communication stopped after we had them over for dinner,etc. Yeap...we had a nicer home,cars,etc. Didn't matter to us but it did to them. :(

Offline Yoshik

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2009, 12:44:00 AM »
Just maybe my wife and I are fortunate as we spend roughly 6 months in St Petersburg and 6 months in the South of England.

We alternate Christmas and New Year.

This arrangement works for both of us as my work as a professor allows me the freedom to research wherever I like, whilst my wife work as a TV presenter/journalist benefits her employer by being in both countries. She is a fluent English speaker, but until she met me 3 years ago was at no more than a basic level. English language growth depends on how you encourage your lady to learn. We go to UK and NO Russian. She immerses herself in the culture and has developed swiftly.

There are parts of the British culture which she adopted immediately. Pubs she sees as vital to social life and enjoys the drink and food. I read on here about the dislike of English food, but all she complains about is the obsession with potatoes. However traditional Sunday lunch is a must, even in summer.

Whilst remaining an Orthodox Christian, her great great uncle having been a Metropolitan, she has readily accepted the High Church Anglican approach and never fails to attend on a Sunday with me.

Her concept is simple. I married an Englishman from choice, thus I have no right to reject his culture. Correspondingly I try not to reject hers. Her advice is "jump in at the deep end". If he loves you he will be your lifebelt. If not then think where you should be.

Yes this Christmas will be in UK with my adult sons, and one grandchild, together with my wife's 18 year old daughter. Then we will all go to Paris for New Year. Uniting as a family and not as two families has worked for us.

Maybe I am lucky, but I do trust that people will understand that family life is vital to making your new relationship work in whatever country you are in. Yes I do talk to my in-laws :laugh:

Online Markje

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2009, 01:30:58 AM »
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For the most part things did not work as she/they had planned, at which point she'd come to me all frustrated and spitting nails because her plans had not worked, we'd talk things out, I'd advise her how I'd proceed...

After which she'd huddle up with her Russian friends...

Rinse/repeat.

Idelo, you must have been a patient person as I'm sure that would drive most people crazy.  Your comment takes me back to an earlier thought, is it better to try and integrate your new wife with mostly people of your own country (assuming she speaks good English) or is that for the most part impossible as I realize it might be in the DNA for people to seek out other people of their culture (in my discussions I have had with FSUW, I always say that I think it's better to have more American friends here as it'll help them integrate faster, but look at me as I'm 10 trips into the adventure and still looking  :( )?

Interesting question. My approach is to let her sort it out herself. She seeks out both Russian friends and Dutch friends. So far she managed to make exactly 1 friend, my best friend :) :)

The Russian one was a huge dissapointment to her, she had "Entitlement" (see other thread) written all over her forehead and that clashed so much with her ideas about a family that she gave up on her.

Other Dutch friends are difficult, because she is not yet fluent enough in Dutch and the ones who want to take effort to speak English to her are limited to my friends mostly. She picked 1 of those as her own friend though, which is good.
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline msmoby

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2009, 03:18:32 AM »
I've lived abroad for six years, so I know what it's like.. I just try and remember what it was like ..



1/ Homesickness

Remedy: Russian TV, unlimited call options to her home nation - try at least one evening where you TRY to sit through Russian TV ;)  


2/ Dependency - a toughly..

I thought the soln would be car:  Veta wants to drive but says she'll never get used to our windy roads and hills - she HATES roundabouts ;)

She actually prefers public transport..





3/ BOREDOM: When she first came to Cyprus, Veta wasn't allowed to work - even for me - now that meant she had plenty of time to lie on the beach and sun-bathe - even THAT get's boring ..

Remedy: studying for the future.. be it language, art , computing


4/ Work : Veta wants to work - preferably not having to rely on me..  but she arrived in the UK as we the recession and foreigners - even with 'rights / qualifications  are at the bottom of the tree.  This is VERY damaging to one's ego

Reemedy : study, again !


5/ Speaking one's own language:

There are days when Veta doesn't want to HEAR / Use English  - normally when she wants to understand something and can't . I've tried to encourage her to meet Russian speakers and we go to RU ethnic cultural events .. I enjoy them, too

It helps that Veta's son is here - they can converse in Russian


6/ Going home:

This probably should have gone under home-sickness.. I reckon one needs to go home at LEAST one a year - I know I needed to go home more often than that .


7/ Bureaucracy:

could go under Dependency.. SHE depends on you - as you are the 'entitled' one ..

remedy: take her with you - keep her involved


8/ Reduced self-esteem

If you are treated like a second class citizen, you may well FEEL like one... this is related to Jobs, Dependency, etc.,

remedy : you have to make her the most important person in your life - NEVER forget to think how you might cope if the roles were reversed.. how useless you might feel .


Lest I might sound 'perfect'.. I sometimes take it for granted that Veta is settled here... THAT is a mistake..








 

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Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline WestCoast

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2009, 03:44:47 AM »
I've lived abroad for six years, so I know what it's like.. I just try and remember what it was like ..



1/ Homesickness

Remedy: Russian TV, unlimited call options to her home nation - try at least one evening where you TRY to sit through Russian TV ;)  


2/ Dependency - a toughly..

I thought the soln would be car:  Veta wants to drive but says she'll never get used to our windy roads and hills - she HATES roundabouts ;)

She actually prefers public transport..





3/ BOREDOM: When she first came to Cyprus, Veta wasn't allowed to work - even for me - now that meant she had plenty of time to lie on the beach and sun-bathe - even THAT get's boring ..

Remedy: studying for the future.. be it language, art , computing


4/ Work : Veta wants to work - preferably not having to rely on me..  but she arrived in the UK as we the recession and foreigners - even with 'rights / qualifications  are at the bottom of the tree.  This is VERY damaging to one's ego

Reemedy : study, again !


5/ Speaking one's own language:

There are days when Veta doesn't want to HEAR / Use English  - normally when she wants to understand something and can't . I've tried to encourage her to meet Russian speakers and we go to RU ethnic cultural events .. I enjoy them, too

It helps that Veta's son is here - they can converse in Russian


6/ Going home:

This probably should have gone under home-sickness.. I reckon one needs to go home at LEAST one a year - I know I needed to go home more often than that .


7/ Bureaucracy:

could go under Dependency.. SHE depends on you - as you are the 'entitled' one ..

remedy: take her with you - keep her involved


8/ Reduced self-esteem

If you are treated like a second class citizen, you may well FEEL like one... this is related to Jobs, Dependency, etc.,

remedy : you have to make her the most important person in your life - NEVER forget to think how you might cope if the roles were reversed.. how useless you might feel .


Lest I might sound 'perfect'.. I sometimes take it for granted that Veta is settled here... THAT is a mistake..


Moby a question in response to #5.  When your wife doesn't want to hear/speak English and wants to speak Russian, why can't she speak Russian with you?  I don't mean you giving a simple Yes or No answer in Russian.  I mean carrying on an extended conversation in Russian about the things you just posted.  I've asked this question before of the husbands of FSUW and have never really received a satisfactory answer, why haven't the husbands learned their wife's language sufficiently well to carry on conversation so that the wife doesn't have to continually speak their husband's language?

Your accent and pronunciation don't have to be perfect, you can make mistakes.  Don't you really think that you should be able to speak Russian after a certain number of years together?   She made the effort to learn your language.

Rasputin and Mendy both learned Russian I quite sure neither of them have extremely high IQs.  Moby you seem to be at least as intelligent as any of the other forum members and judging by the extent of some of your postings you certainly have the ability to do the research and study to learn a language.  Perhaps one of the new members to the forum can answer the question , why haven't you learned your wife's language? ??? ??? ???
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline msmoby

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2009, 04:16:31 AM »

Moby a question in response to #5.  When your wife doesn't want to hear/speak English and wants to speak Russian, why can't she speak Russian with you?  I don't mean you giving a simple Yes or No answer in Russian.  I mean carrying on an extended conversation in Russian about the things you just posted.  I've asked this question before of the husbands of FSUW and have never really received a satisfactory answer, why haven't the husbands learned their wife's language sufficiently well to carry on conversation so that the wife doesn't have to continually speak their husband's language?

Your accent and pronunciation don't have to be perfect, you can make mistakes.  Don't you really think that you should be able to speak Russian after a certain number of years together?   She made the effort to learn your language.

Rasputin and Mendy both learned Russian I quite sure neither of them have extremely high IQs.  Moby you seem to be at least as intelligent as any of the other forum members and judging by the extent of some of your postings you certainly have the ability to do the research and study to learn a language.  Perhaps one of the new members to the forum can answer the question , why haven't you learned your wife's language? ??? ??? ???

Good question W.C...

When I mean speak Russian I mean converse freely-  to talk about Pushkin as written in Russian... I can ask my way around a town and choose food, etc.

But I'm an old git and my brain isn't what it used to be.. I've been able to speak French fluently, German well enough to go on a stand and answer tech Qs and take prospects details, Greek,  AND a fair bit of Turkish and now Russian... I've taken lessons and watch RU TV every day, but I can't discuss politics / art / religion without boring everyone .. from slowness..;)

Try discussing something you are passionate about with someone grabbing for the verb that eludes them..


From Veta's point of view... sometimes she has days where she can't understand what I, or someone on the TV is saying..  and she just wishes she could...

IF I stay in Russia for a week or two it always improves.. I learn a language best when I'm immersed in it...  I'm in MY home country, now..



I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline WestCoast

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2009, 05:55:56 AM »

Moby a question in response to #5.  When your wife doesn't want to hear/speak English and wants to speak Russian, why can't she speak Russian with you?  I don't mean you giving a simple Yes or No answer in Russian.  I mean carrying on an extended conversation in Russian about the things you just posted.  I've asked this question before of the husbands of FSUW and have never really received a satisfactory answer, why haven't the husbands learned their wife's language sufficiently well to carry on conversation so that the wife doesn't have to continually speak their husband's language?

Your accent and pronunciation don't have to be perfect, you can make mistakes.  Don't you really think that you should be able to speak Russian after a certain number of years together?   She made the effort to learn your language.

Rasputin and Mendy both learned Russian I quite sure neither of them have extremely high IQs.  Moby you seem to be at least as intelligent as any of the other forum members and judging by the extent of some of your postings you certainly have the ability to do the research and study to learn a language.  Perhaps one of the new members to the forum can answer the question , why haven't you learned your wife's language? ??? ??? ???

Good question W.C...

When I mean speak Russian I mean converse freely-  to talk about Pushkin as written in Russian... I can ask my way around a town and choose food, etc.

But I'm an old git and my brain isn't what it used to be.. I've been able to speak French fluently, German well enough to go on a stand and answer tech Qs and take prospects details, Greek,  AND a fair bit of Turkish and now Russian... I've taken lessons and watch RU TV every day, but I can't discuss politics / art / religion without boring everyone .. from slowness..;)

Try discussing something you are passionate about with someone grabbing for the verb that eludes them..


From Veta's point of view... sometimes she has days where she can't understand what I, or someone on the TV is saying..  and she just wishes she could...

IF I stay in Russia for a week or two it always improves.. I learn a language best when I'm immersed in it...  I'm in MY home country, now..


Moby, my next birthday is my 55th I doubt you're much older.  When my ex and I lived together we spoke  English and Mandarin, her English is fluent so we undoubtedly spoke more English but even she said there were times when she just had to express herself in her native language. 

Living with her is what got me to the point where I felt comfortable speaking Mandarin with people for extended periods of time. True some days I thought my head was going to explode from all the foreign words running through my mind (probably the your wife feels some days) because I had just spent the day speaking and hearing a totally foreign language with little or no English. That feeling has passed and now I have few problems speaking Mandarin for the day. 

If the husband can speak his wife's language well enough to carry on a conversation her adaptation to her new country is bound to be easier.

 

andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2009, 07:13:21 AM »
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I would add not getting decent advice on how to properly market oneself when looking for a job or relying on shoddy advice (usually fellow immigrants)   The problem is that immigrants often go to "job counselors" whose only real experience is being a job counselor. They write mediocre resumés and then don't really give good advice IMHO as to how to effectively look for a job and prepare oneself for the interview. I have helped more than my fair share of immigrants and the ones who actually were willing to take advice got jobs.

When Mila comes to me with a new idea for her resume, or asks about some change she wants to make in her "plan" I always ask where the idea is coming from.  A few times I have caught her considering advice from people at work, or other immigrants at a job agency that I was a little leery of.  Asking her if the person giving the advice was successful doing the same thing usually got her to consider the idea more closely and the bad ideas got weeded out.  I have told her straight out, don't rely on the Russians here to learn about Canada, rely on the Canadians as they are much more knowledgable. 
Look, we're gonna spend half the night driving around the Hills looking for this one party and you're going to say it sucks and we're all gonna leave and then we're gonna go look for this other party. But all the parties and all the bars, they all suck. <-Same goes for forums!

Offline froid

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Re: The Challenges of Post Marital Adaptation
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2009, 07:26:26 AM »
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If the husband can speak his wife's language well enough to carry on a conversation her adaptation to her new country is bound to be easier.

Well her adaptation at home might be easier.  This could set her back in public life however.

It comes back to the stages of Cultureshock that you are trying to navigate.  They say that 60% of expats turn out to be rejectors and do not assimilate at all.  Only speaking Russian at home could be an indication or enabler of rejection of the new culture and never allow them to move past this stage. 

Reading up on Cultureshock would probably be helpful for many people in a new land.  I personally believe people should aim to take the good from their new culture, merge it with the good of their old one, and become a hypenated Canadian...ie:Russian-Canadian...as the most positive outcome.
Look, we're gonna spend half the night driving around the Hills looking for this one party and you're going to say it sucks and we're all gonna leave and then we're gonna go look for this other party. But all the parties and all the bars, they all suck. <-Same goes for forums!


 

 

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