Top Ten things you would tell a Newbie!

[skiingandrunning]

OK, after spending about 5 months lurking on this site I have come across several good nuggets of information, but often they are lost in threads where we are trying to explain to some lost soul the errors in his thinking.  So I thought why not list our top ten things we would tell a newbie to help avoid future train wrecks and make the experience as enjoyable as possible (I figured ten would provide much more variety as I would guess most people's top five might be somewhat similar).  So here are the top things that come to my mind:

1. Do not buy into the hype - Too many men (myself included) get started on this venture after reading the overly optimistic propaganda about marrying a FSUW.  The truth is, their is NO guarantees.

2. Use your common sense - I apply this in the context of meeting someone in your own league.  Granted we are often lured into this venture by hopes of upgrading our chances of meeting a women of our dreams and most might have more choices than they do back home, but don't reach too far outside of your league as it relates to age, appearance, and intellect.

3. Read the horror stories - I think there are enough of them on this forum and other sites like jimslist to make any normal person think "   what am I doing" and only go forward after that moment because then you are either too dumb (might be me) or too optimistic to fail.  A book I have read and recommended to others is called "Wedded Strangers: Challenges of Russian and American Marriages" as if does a good job of showing some of the difficulties that could be expected.

4. Read about the culture & countries - I would start with a book called "The Russian Way" as it goes through a lot of things that are typical in Russia but are foreign to many in the west like the propensity for Russians to tell the "white lie".  Also, the more you know about her country, the more she'll be impressed.  Manny's book goes into this as well so do not be afraid to spend a few dollars and do a little reading.

5. Make the list of who you will be looking for before starting the process (think of things you must have and could not stand and list everything).   Also, remember that appearance fades with time so do not put too much weight on finding a smokinghothova as you really should consider other things.  This will save you a lot of time chasing after the wrong person.

6. Know what your budget is before leaving.  Remember rule number two and in no way should you be financing this effort as the costs will only grow if you actually find someone and you can't count on that person to contribute to the family income anytime soon after arriving in your country.  

7. Know when to get out as this process is not for everyone.  If you feel after dropping a few to many thousands of dollars that maybe a FSUW wife is not for you, then quite NOW as the famous economics saying definitely applies here "sunk costs don't count".

8. When you plan your first trips, look at them as trips to see the country where you just happen to meet someone.  This way it really takes the pressure off as you have not traveled to another country just for the women, but to see the country as well.  If the meeting bombs (true on my first trip), you can still have a great time seeing the country (based on experience I have learned that this is a better backup option for me than trying to meet even more women).

9. Learn some Russian as English is not widely spoken there.  If you know no Russian and are traveling solo for the first time, then make some arrangements with a local travel company to maybe provide a guide/translator as local rates are not too expensive and in the big picture can be considered money well spent.

10. If you have thin skin or do not take setbacks well, then DON'T DO IT!!!  First, society will look at you differently and as they will think something is wrong with you because you need to look overseas (if you do not believe me, tell some western women who you might want to date that you once dated a Russian and you'll see a picture perfect expression on her face that say's "OMG you're a loser").  Second, if you post on a forum like this you are bound to receive some advice you might not want to hear or worse have some old man who had a little too much to drink take offense at what you wrote and go into complete melt-down mode.  Third, the success rate is not very great as it's like dating with a higher degree of difficult due to distance and cultural factors so you might make a trip and find out that the meeting was a bust or maybe you find the one, go through the long process of bringing her to your country to only join the 70% of FSUW & WM marriages that do not make it (edit - Source http://agencyscams.com/Divorce.html).

OK, right or wrong, these are the things that came to my mind, but I'm sure others who are wiser and more experienced than myself could add more .

[2tallbill]

Very nice list S&R

The original "Tablets of Stone" thread can be found here

<"http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=3588.0">

Here is a summary with a couple of my ideas sprinkled in at the end
Don't send money,
Don't fall in love with a photo,
Don't send money,

Plan a trip (don't write letters if you don't have a passport)
Don't send money,

Be honest about everything (demand the same)
Make sure the woman is real
Don't send money,

Get rid of any agency as soon as possible
DO NOT fall in love before you meet
Get her on the phone asap
100% of real RW HAVE cell phones. Even the girls that live in
mud huts without electricity and eat roots and bugs have
a cell phone by the time they are 16 !

Read the forum until your eyes bleed

There are more than one way to do things so do what works
for you

Know when to walk away (and know when to run)

Girls under 25 are too young (in Bill's opinion) so don't even
look at them and certainly don't write to them.

You do NOT look ten years younger than your real age.
I am 48 but only look 47 1/2 

Super hot RW do not write unsolicited letters to men.
Super hot RW do not write unsolicited letters to men.
Super hot RW do not write unsolicited letters to men.

If you get a letter from an RW who is super hot, and you
never met them or their family before then it's a dude
or an agency translator sending the letter.

Here is a link to my "How to"

<"http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=4390.0">

[ecocks]

1. Be realistic - if you don't date within your age and resource limits, you're doomed. If it's too good to be true, it almost assuredly is. Miss Ukraine is not going to be forever grateful at you riding in to rescue her from a life of boredom, drudgery and third world misery.

2. Get the Agency OUT OF THE LOOP - as soon as possible for meetings, expressions of interest, emails, translators, apartment arrangements, travel planning, gift-giving, etc.

3. Select a geographic region - Russia is the largest country on the planet, then there are all of the former client states and newly-autonomous countries. Decide where you'll search and look in that area for the woman who best fits your criteria and offers you an honest, loving relationship.

4. Resource Management - make sure you have adequate money and time for this. Vacation time, Internet chats for hours, lawyers, paperwork, all these take time and money so understand what you are getting into.

5. Manage yours and others, expectations - don't talk too much about when things are going to happen. The timeline is different for everyone and routine procedures go through multiple bureaucracies which are totally out of your control. Your family, friends and woman will be listening to your claims and not understanding this, save yourself some heartache.

6. Make your own travel arrangements - you may have to deal with on-the-spot corrections where unfamiliarity with your own plans and itinerary will cause a ton of grief.

7. Use technology - from the Internet get Skype, a good on-line interpreter, a webcam and be sure your email account is checked often.

8. Pay attention to the forums - don't be afraid to ask questions and sift through the wealth of experience out there. Of course, there are several idiots on them too, watch out and use common sense.

9. Practice some Russian - a little goes a long way. Learn basic phrases, including the standard please, thank-you, excuse me and necessities like numbers and directions.

10. Research - read up on the realities of the places you'll visit. Remember that amongst all the hype there are, in fact, small kernels of truth. Scammers exist, taxi drivers take advantage, apartments are often ripoffs and you don't need an armed bodyguard to babysit you.

[mendeleyev]

Nice lists!

[sparky114]

As Mendy says nice lists  i have only one to add.

Never EVER EVER EVER EVER promise something you cant honour without just cause, the girls have heard so many promises that the only actions speak louder than words.

[I/O]

the 70% of FSUW & WM marriages that do not make it.

Just curious, what is this number based on? Any reference points?

[mendeleyev]

You do NOT look ten years younger than your real age.
I am 48 but only look 47 1/2

Dang Beeeel, you're doing great! I'm only 50 something and don't look a day over 74! 

[jb]

Great lists, guys.  Isn't it interesting how much they parallel the Tablets of Stone published so long ago and so far away.

Just an observation on my part, however, in most of the train wrecks I've seen over the years the men seem to have rejected linear logic and engaged entirely in circular thinking.  IOWs, pursuit of wishful thinking and fantasy.  The moment a perfectly sane 50 y.o. man falls in love with the photograph of a 25 y.o. girl, the deck gets stacked.  It happens every day.

Regardless of how many times he is advised otherwise, the answer is always the same; "but,,, but,,, our case is different".   Oddly enough, it never is.

[chivo]

Good thread and nice lists. Never hurts to bring it back to the surface, even though there is a tablet of stone.

take your time, desperation kills
bad behavior is NOT a cultural difference
Don't treat these women exactly like AW, be strong, decisive and phuck feminism (think John Wayne mixed with David Niven  )
trust your gut

Don't send money,
Don't send money,
Don't send money,
Don't send money,

I don't understand, what are you trying to say? 

If I repeated anything from prior lists, please forgive me.

[skiingandrunning]

The original "Tablets of Stone" thread can be found here

Bill, thanks for sharing the link.

the 70% of FSUW & WM marriages that do not make it.
Just curious, what is this number based on? Any reference points?

I should have probably applied a direct quote on that one as there is a mention of it on jimslist.  Others on this forum disagree with the number, but my one the ground observations (VERY unscientific) tend to leave me believe that it might be close to that.  Plus, when you consider the fact that 50% of domestic marriages fail, then something close to 70% seems realistic when you take into consideration cultural differences and people rushing into these marriages without taking the proper vetting time.   If other numbers exist, I would be more than happy to be corrected.

[jb]

My "On The Ground" experience with about 25 local AM/RW marriages here is closer to a 10% failure rate.  We have seen 2 marriages go south in the past 6 years.  One was her fault, the other was his.  A third marriage was rocky for awhile because of his need to travel extensively for work, (she didn't like to be left alone), but that has since smoothed out.  OTOH, we have seen quite a few K-1 girls go home without a marriage.  That failure rate, I think, is higher than 70%.

[TwoBitBandit]

11.  Pull the friggin' plug as soon as you know it's not going to go anywhere.  Don't try to force a relationship.  (OK, I admit I have some personal experience with this one...  )

[froid]

The one thing I would I make sure to tell a newbie is that someone deciding to look abroad should first look at what hoops he will have to jump through for his own government if he is successful.  Before you even start you should have an idea of what happens if you find the one.  It might not be as important for the guys from countries that can get fiancee visas, but for Canadians the road to happiness involves a lot more paperwork and waiting and costs that some may not be prepared for.  

I bet there are guys who decided to look abroad, only to find out that some rules in the sponsorship process forbid them from sponsoring.  Say they have a criminal record, or recent bankruptcy or something along those lines that forbid them from applying.  Best to know the rules before you start the game.  

[Sauron]

1. Write and chat to many women, to separate real from fake and interest from politeness.
2. Get the phone number and call. If its hard use  chat afterwards, but know the voice of who you chat with.
3. Do not use culture as excuse for bad behaviour.
4. Do things your way, and do them your self as much as you can.
5. Learn Russian, or speak to those with a  common language.
6. Be ready to travel.
7. Do not make a trip to go on vacation. Make a trip to get to know a person (or more)
8. Stay close to your dating behaviour at home
9. Forget that your own country is the best in the world.
10. Offering money is not the answer unless you know how to offer it.

[jb]

I would also mention; do not be underfunded.  This endeavor is always going to cost more than you initially guessed-estimated.