Politics and Religion: subjects to be avoided or embraced?

[solzhenitsynfan]

Okay I know touchy subject for everyone. 
My question for you lovely and intelligent ladies is this:

Should the subjects of Politics and Religion be avoided when we are initially meeting a Russian lady, or should we take this on a Case by Case basis?  Is there a cultural or social norm that we should be aware of?

I just started IM with a lady that I am VERY interested in.  In her profile she mentions that she is looking for a "Christian man" so this led me to believe that religion is an important subject for her.  I noticed however, that whenever our initial conversation began to become political or spiritual...she quickly changed the subject. 

I will be the first to admit that I am socially inept, so these principles may extend well beyond me and the ladies of the FSU.  I am one of those who has little tact, says exactly what comes to my mind, and am willing to go wherever a conversation leads regardless of how uncomfortable it may become.

I basically could use any personal or general advice that you can provide.  My 18 year old sister is my only current help in this department...LOL  

[Herrie]

FSU girls/woman often mention "Christian" not to get "Muslim" men to write them. Some are very outspoken and specifically mention that they don't want "Muslim" men. Others are a little more subtile with just mentioning "Christian".

I don't believe it tells much about her religious interest that much. She could still be practicing little or no religion 

[andrewfi]

Sorry, I ain't a woman.

However, if a profile of a person claiming to be a woman seeking a foreign man for marriage refers to religion in this way then you can have a fair stab at the real purpose being to say 'no muslims or blokes with other than fair skin need apply'.

Of course it does make sense early on to ascertain a potential partner's religious/superstitious beliefs and their strengths. Life can be difficult for a couple where one is a zealot for a particular brand of superstition and the other has chosen a different brand (or is not superstitious)

As to politics, well, in many respects this is likely a non-issue as allegiances do not travel too well. A thing to be sensitive of though is that one does not try, knowingly or otherwise, to impose a sense of national or cultural superiority. That usually goes down like a cold vomit cocktail whoever it is tries that little game!

[solzhenitsynfan]

Thanks fellas.  It is now clear to me that Christian means very different things for us.  I am no zealot but I am hoping that there are some Christian principles and thinking that have been transmitted through the Orthodox tradition.

Please excuse my political ignorance, but I have a couple more questions.

Our discussion turned slightly political before it was abruptly ended by her when I began to suggest that many of Obamas policies are essentially socialist.  She mentioned that she disagreed but did not care to elaborate.  I wonder if she may be concerned that she will offend me by her characterization of my president which is far from the truth.  Can someone please define "Socialist" from the FSU viewpoint or direct me to a good explanation?  Is this also a "leftist" in the FSU?  Also, is there a social stigma that exists among FSU citizens that causes them to be very cautious when discussing political ideology, especially concerning that which is not in line with the status quo or the current government?

Thanks.

[Manny]

  Is this also a "leftist" in the FSU? 

I would say so.

Personally I would leave politics till the second or third meeting. Many women's eyes tend to glaze over at the mere mention of it anyway.

[andrewfi]

Political concepts would not travel well. For example, in Europe to describe Democratic policies as socialist would cause most people's eyes to glaze over and the listener would feel pity for your lack of understanding of socialism. A reasonably aware Russian woman would simply be very unlikely to see political concepts in the same terms as you because her frame of reference would be different to yours.

I mean, as a reasonably aware person who DOES follow US politics I see Rep and Dem as being two sides of the same coin, not different coins. An AMerican would be quite likely surprised by the real conceptual differences between left and right in European politics as compared to the US.

So, yes, leave politics alone for a while as most of what she, if is bothered at all, believes will not count for much in her new environment - assuming she exports herself.

[froid]

Depends on if you want to learn about and experience a different worldview...or are you just discussing politics for arguements sake.

Since the Canadian and American versions of left and right differ and we are long time peaceful neighbors with many shared cultural experiences you can be assured that the viewpoint and worldview of an FSU woman is very very different indeed.  This could cause friction or even outright fights if not approached properly.

For instance my grandfather was Estonian...and the reason he came to Canada was to escape the communists.  First he ran to Finland, fought against the Russians, and then had to run to Sweden when the men in the black car showed up one night.  He did not think that was far enough and moved to Canada later.  Obviously my viewpoint on Estonians is a positive one.

When I asked Mila what she thought of Estonians...her answer was simply "They are fascists". 

Be prepared to hear a completely different point of view and you might survive the discussion.  

[Vinnvinny]

I basically could use any personal or general advice that you can provide. 

I think you should stop analysing everything from the other side of the world and go and buy a plane ticket.

[mirror]

To know religious preferences can be interesting and even ,maybe, fatally important.

I always talk about a religion and I say always that I am a Muslim. I think any man with whom I communicate should know about it, so no any secrets. We know that some people doesn't like Muslims,some-Christians, Asian,Afroamerican people.

Politics! Mmmm.... ask me and I will tell you everything what I think about Russian politics!  

PS: have a look how Muslim fiancee can look like.

  

[fireeater]

If you are interested in finding out more about how she feels about her religion, then you have the perfect timing to do it. Easter was just here, and Easter arrives on the 19th in the FSU. A very good way to explore and see how both feel about this subject. 

For politics, I would leave it alone, until some issue arises she would like to mention. And then keep a very open mind if it does.  Not a very thrilling subject for near the beginning of an relationship. 

 

[mendeleyev]

Sol, you are receiving some excellent comments! As someone who believes faith important in my life, my choices were directed toward someone who for the sake of compatability shared the same values. So in that case I would of course ask, but not to make a big deal of it at first. Once comfortable with her personality after a few dates, then it could be brought up more naturally if I wanted to pursue a relationship.

We also have a very helpful thread on understanding how Russian Orthodoxy might fit in her world here.

Politics is something to ease into over time, and you may never be on the same page. Even after being married a decade most of us will still need to practice some understanding and tolerate differences.

[solzhenitsynfan]

Well you guys are going to love this...here is the grand finale to the first real FSU lady that I met through the Elena's website.  She did not respond to my lengthy email but did show interest in IM...

Just a recap on my experience so far:

The first girl I met was a scammer.
The second girl I met was probably a scammer too though we haven't quite decided for sure.

The final email I received from the second girl was thus:

HI John,

Too proud women become wives of alcoholics here and waste their life.
I see that you are simply greedy person. Take care and  be yourself.

Olya

The third girl I met a few days ago was rather interesting.  Her profile included everything that I was looking for.  We immediately began instamessaging each other only to find out that her cat has an illness that is quite life-threatening.  I mentioned that I have a medical background so she immediately began grilling me about the cat's disease, possible treatments, and how to give a young kitten injections.  Last night I put together a laundry list of resources for her, emailed them to her, and received many kind words and thanks from her this morning.

We had polite banter for a while but the conversation did turn political and she began bashing Bush and Bush supporters.  Out of the clear blue she made the following statement:

" I think anyone who supports bush is an idiot and immoral person."

I did not respond at all to this but politely changed the subject.  I have no problem discussing politics as long as it is in a constructive manner.  I soon decided that there was no point in continuing the conversation any longer.  I said a few nice things and then bid her adieu thinking that was that, but apparently she wasn't finished with me yet.  After closing out the IM window I get the following pop and, like a dummy, I just had to respond... 

A: tea bagging me?
J: Do you even know what that means??? LOL
A: Teabagger/Teabagging Definition:
1. n. A man that dips his scrotum and testicles into the mouth of another person. (as if dipping a tea bag into hot water)
2. n. A conservative activist who is so ignorant that they protest against tax cuts (that benefit them) by throwing tea into a river.
J: Interesting 2nd definition.  I've never heard that one before.  What dictionary is that from?
A:  I have my sources.
J: This is not meant as an insult but you seem very different from the Christian lady portrayed by your profile
A: Really? Why
J: Teabagging?
A: Yes what about it?
J: Not only is it filthy but the second definition is a clear sleight against Americans and you are conversing with an American?
A: I didn't use it as first def. Second is not anti-american.
J: It is a reference to the Boston Tea Party.  Did you not catch that?
A: No. It is not. It is a reference to your conservative views vs my socialist views. It has nothing to do with BTP.
J: "protest against tax cuts (that benefit them) by throwing tea into a river."  That is a direct reference to the BTP.  How can you deny this?
A: gosh you live in the middle ages.
J: In addition you have indirectly called me ignorant, immoral, and an idiot...yet you have not even taken the time to get to know me.  This is very unfair...and the insults continue...without cause   
A: I did not call you that.
A: But heres a clue:
A: I do not give a  about America. You can put it back in your  . BECAUSE I JUST DON"T CARE. I hate Solzhenitzyn, he is a ing bore, I can't imagine someone reading it *for pleasure* and final clue NOBODY IN RUSSIA PLAYS balalayka, its  ing prehistoric.
J: Now the real Anna comes forth
J: very hateful
J: disrespectful
J: I would never say such things about your country
A: You as I see, also must have the only right to speak on behalf of God, like G Dumbya Bush (who is btw not all american people) goodbye.
J: I love Russia and the Russian people
J: I do care
A: Well. Learn to love real people, not your ideas of them. IDiot
[and she left]

All I can say is WOW!  What a lady!  I'm sure that not all Russian gals are like this, but I swear if you read her profile you would have never seen such an outburst coming...I'm sure some of you will think that somehow I brought this on myself...but I assure you I have been nothing but helpful open and courteous with this lady.  What the heck!!?  I guess it's better that this happened sooner rather than later though, don't you think? 

Well I am officially 0 for 3.  I'm really wondering if this is all really worth it..not quite sure what to do next...:'(

[Chris]

In the early days of my searching I had a similar one to that nutter, her emails were full of profanities, I told her I wasn't interested but she wouldn't go away, more or less cyber stalked me for a while until I got fed up and just stopped responding. She was from Kaluga BTW, this one isn't  is she? could be the same whacko 

Just move on and keep trying, a good one will turn up in due course, probably when you least expect it.

[ECR844]

Elena's in the past has had a decent if varied reputation. But it seems in the last year with their selling their clients emails to spammers, and what you've experienced that perhaps it might be time to consider a different agency which has less questions about it's integrity . Just my .02....

[andrewfi]

Why are looking for a woman from outside your community. Surely it is easier to find, with the same effort, somebody with whom you can communicate?