Ukraine Real Estate

[AkMike]

Sorry Don, my expierience is in Ukraine.. That might be different than Russia.

[Manny]

You are allowed to bring into the US LEGALLY $10,000 per trip per person w/o declaring it. If you bring more declare it and I  assume pay taxes.
 IF and when I bring mine back I'm just going to do a bank to bank wire transfer to my US bank just like it left here.

Yeah I know about the 10K not having to be declared but anything over will be reported and will need to be explained. My main concern is about wiring the money out and if the Russian Gov is gonna wanna take a chuck. Does anyone know?

DonAz

Travellers cheques would also work, in so much as you can get them, however my recollection of US law and reportable currency transactions refers to 'any monetary instrument' which includes counter cheques, cashiers cheques and travellers cheques of course.

As I am here now and I can see the Sberbank from the window, I guess I will go and ask on Monday - Or Olya will actually 

The hypothetical question shall be ''$200k from a property deal out of Sberbank in Russia to the US by wire transfer, what do we need to know first?''

If it were me personally, it would be high value notes, tightly packed and concealed. You can move quite a lot with well packed $100 bills. A wire into the US from RF is likely to trigger an IRS investigation I would suspect from what I have read.

You will know the current wire rules in any event on Monday.

[tbelknap]

If it were me personally, it would be high value notes, tightly packed and concealed. You can move quite a lot with well packed $100 bills. A wire into the US from RF is likely to trigger an IRS investigation I would suspect from what I have read.

More than likely.  I suspect that the US bank would have to report that transfer due to money laundering laws.  Maybe you should transfer it to Mexico, Don.  You seem to spend more time there and it may be more readily available.

As I am sure you know, once you take it out you are required to pay taxes on it.   



Thomas

[DonA]

US taxes aren't the problem and I will not in any way try to smuggle large sums opf money. If you do and you get caught you face prison time and the cash is gone. I'm more concerned with the possibleity of the Russian Gov taking a percentage of the wire.

Does anyone have an answer for that

Thanks,

DonAz

[Rasputin]

US taxes aren't the problem and I will not in any way try to smuggle large sums opf money. If you do and you get caught you face prison time and the cash is gone. I'm more concerned with the possibleity of the Russian Gov taking a percentage of the wire.

Does anyone have an answer for that

Thanks,

DonAz

When I sold my wife's apartment, I wired the money back to her in Canada. It was not a huge sum (1 million roubles), but I was able to send it via Sberbank at a reasonable cost (roughly $35) and she received all her money the next morning.

[DonA]

THAT WAS THE ANSWER I WAS HOPING FOR muchas Gracias

DonAz

[Manny]

You will know the current wire rules in any event on Monday.

As advertised. 

We asked in the Sberbank today, being adventurous with a hypothetical $2 million. They confirmed there are no witholding taxes that are applied by the bank on a wire transfer to the USA, no restrictions on exporting that amount of money. The girl did add 'of course, we cant say what the US tax people might think about it' 

So there it is, straight from the horses mouth.

[AkMike]

You will know the current wire rules in any event on Monday.

So there it is, straight from the horses mouth.

 Cool! Next question..

 Was she a cute filly?

[Raspberry]

I am considering, sometime down the line, getting some property over there. Besides the fact that I like the FSU, I need an alternative to stocks. In the old days, the executives of companies were accountable to the shareholders....but nowadays, all the CEOs think of is what kind of golden parachute they will be getting.....and really don't care about what kind of job they do running the company.........as a result, stock certificates are generally worthless pieces of paper these days.

As bad as some of you say property is over there, it is still better than stock here.

[andrewfi]

Get a credit card from the country in which you liquidated your assets and use the card for purchases wherever you are in the world.

This will, from previous enquiries, enable the discreet access to your funds. If you should find that this method casues you problems it is likley that you are already under investigation, in a serious way, by the relevant authorities and thus this wil be the least of your worries.

This strategy is the basis of the MO of many anonymous banking services because although tax authorities CAN get to Visa and Mastercard records it is bloody hard to do so if they do not already have the relevant info and so is a lst resort applied only when a target is already under suspicion of being a fish worth expending major resources to catch - hardly likley to be the case for a vloke flogging an apartment in Ukraine.

----------------
Mike, the signs are making themselves clear, clouds are gathering. Having made money in the past, when it was dead easy, was easy, all it took was a willingness to take a risk and benefit from the risk premium. Suggesting that somebody can do the same now as 3-5 years ago is less than good advice. Kinda like betting on the fall of the dice when you know that the dice are now loaded against you. Also, whilst those with diversified portfolios will have diversified their risk a bloke buying a single apartment, or even a couple, is not diversified and thus his risk is increased even as the market is, without his contribution, becoming more risky.

I am sure that some people will continue to make money, just as here in Tallinn - smart operators who know the market very well and can afford a long term view. Anyone asking advice on the matter in THIS forum would, by definition, not fall into the category of knowledgable investor - if they were, they'd not need to ask for advice here.

[MBS01]

Back to the main question:
From what I recently heard prices for Real Estate during the past say 6 years in Ukraine's major centres have gone up 300% based on a comment my wife made about property prices in Dneproptrovsk, Ukraine.

So I think this is something to consider too.  Is there a bubble?  Will it busrt one day like int eh USA?  Who knows, something to consider especially in a mostly all cash Real estate environment.

Thus the flats we looked at about 4 years ago for $10,000 to $20,000 are now likely at least $30,000 to $60,000 not taking into consideration all the issues previously discussed in owning real estate in a FSU country.

[Catman]

I read an article in a paper last year about some agriculture ministers from Ukraine coming to Manitoba, Canada and telling people here to buy farm land in Western Ukraine. They say the climate, soil and landscape in Western Ukraine is very similiar to the province of Manitoba and the land for sale was $10 an acre. I imagine that you would have to know what you are doing and have some knowledge of agriculture. I know of some Europeans who come to Canada and bought land in the winter hoping to start farming. When the snow melted they found thenselves sitting on some very expensive rocks

[khersongirls]

Buying land is still difficult. You basically have to buy a old building and then get the land extended around it.  In kherson a buildable lot is going on the river that was $15k 3 years ago is now 30k and there is a demand for them.  I've bought 3 apartments back in 2000 for 8k each.  Did around 15-20k plus furniture on each apartment in the center and today I could easily get 80-90k for them.   A lot of guys made some money during the early days. 

Today however It is more difficult. You can find some deals out of the center of towns..  But it a matter of knowing the right person. The banks seem to know all of the right people as they are building on park lands and taking control of most of the older buildings.

Where a deal is too be made is water front property outside of the cities. You can still find it in Ukraine and buy it..   Take a local person to assist you. I would suggest outside of Kiev or any major city.   

[kievstar]

You can wire the money back to the USA but you have the chance of being audited and being questioned how you made the money in Russia.  You could probably pay a small amount of money to get fake documents in Russia showing the purchase price being higher than what you actually paid to reduce the tax amount to be paid for nothing.  For 50,000 usd it is very small chance anyone would consider auditing you let alone making you pay taxes on it.  There are bigger fish to go after. 

If someone wants to make big bucks would be to buy around 25,000 acres of farming land but I believe you would need a local Ukraine partner to do that plus several millionaire investors.  Than lease it out to the foreign farming companies which are invading Ukraine right now. 

Hotel business still is an option as Ukraine is short of hotels.

Problem with the hotel and land lease idea your talking more than 20 million investment.  Reason the rich get richer.  They have the money to invest.

But the buying the apartment and renting boom is over.  What is going to happen when Ukraine defaults on the IMF loan money?  Also, if Russia gets their puppet elected President in Ukraine and they take over the gas transit and steel companies.  Do not laugh Russia wants Ukraine back.  May not be a bad thing for the majority of the people in Ukraine.

[tfcrew]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I would just revive this one.

My wife wishes to sell her flat in central Odessa.
I would appreciate any leads on buyers/investors etc.
If she has to return to do the paperwork...we want it to [understandably] be a sure thing.

We live in the Dallas area.   
Some of you guys might have seen my posts on VJ & RWD.

Karl