The World's #1 Russian, Ukrainian & Eastern European Discussion & Information Forum - RUA!

This Is the Premier Discussion Forum on the Net for Information and Discussion about Russia, Ukraine, Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union. Discuss Culture, Politics, Travelling, Language, International Relationships and More. Chat with Travellers, Locals, Residents and Expats. Ask and Answer Questions about Travel, Culture, Relationships, Applying for Visas, Translators, Interpreters, and More. Give Advice, Read Trip Reports, Share Experiences and Make Friends.

Author Topic: Obtaining Russian Citizenship for a child of a Russian woman once divorce final.  (Read 3153 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pushkinlov

  • Member
  • Posts: 12
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Hello members. I must state some facts first.

There is a divorce process going which will be final very soon.
Two children from marriage.  One has already Russian citizenship, the other does not.  Both children were born in USA.
Father will retain legal and physical custody due to mother mental illness.  Mother mentally unable to care for children.
Questions:
1. Is it possible to obtain Russian Citizenship for  second child?
2. Is there any possibility to take children to Russian and retain the sole legal and physical custody once in Russia?
3. What are the pitfalls of this circumstances?
Thanks for comments/ feedback.

Offline Confederate

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7356
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Dating
  • Trips: 1-5
Hello members. I must state some facts first.

There is a divorce process going which will be final very soon.
Two children from marriage.  One has already Russian citizenship, the other does not.  Both children were born in USA.
Father will retain legal and physical custody due to mother mental illness.  Mother mentally unable to care for children.
Questions:
1. Is it possible to obtain Russian Citizenship for  second child?
2. Is there any possibility to take children to Russian and retain the sole legal and physical custody once in Russia?
3. What are the pitfalls of this circumstances?
Thanks for comments/ feedback.

Hello Pushkinlov, I just would like to say welcome to the forum.

The ones who might be able to answer your questions will be along soon.
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. P. J. O'Rourke

Offline Pushkinlov

  • Member
  • Posts: 12
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Thanks Confederate. This requires some knowledge of Russian Law or at least practice with other members' experiences.  :thumbsup:


Online andrewfi

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17787
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Articles About Almost Anything!
Find a lawyer dealing with this stuff. Pay the lawyer and work with her.

Free advice is usually worth every penny that you pay for it.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Online Steveboy

  • Commercial Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3893
  • Country: ru
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: In The Business
  • Trips: Resident
None of that really makes sense ...

Mother has a mental problem and cannot look after them as she is mentally unstable??

Are you Russian ? What nationality is the wife..if she's American I can understand about the mental problem she may have..bit of a strange story..
I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

Offline Gipsy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2343
  • Country: 00
Find a lawyer dealing with this stuff. Pay the lawyer and work with her.

Free advice is usually worth every penny that you pay for it.

Good advice, take heed...

In answer to your questions..
1, Yes..
2, Yes..
3, That depends on several things..

I have some questions of you, which will make the situation a little clearer..
Is the mother or the father a Russian national, or both??
Is the mother prepared to allow both children to leave the US??
Have doctors certified that the mother is incapable of looking after either or both of the children, and has this been certified by the courts??

Best wishes whatever you decide to tell us..
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16577
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
1. Is it possible to obtain Russian Citizenship for  second child?

Any child with one or two Russian parents can get Russian citizenship.

2. Is there any possibility to take children to Russian and retain the sole legal and physical custody once in Russia?

In Russia, Russian law applies. Especially to Russian citizens. They'll not be too concerned what a court in the US once said about a citizenship they don't care about.

3. What are the pitfalls of this circumstances?

For whom?

I think we need more info.

Offline Pushkinlov

  • Member
  • Posts: 12
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Thanks Manny. Mother (a Russian Citizen) does not wish to to return to Russia and decided to go her own way.  In the US she is not allowed to be with children due to safety concerns for children (due to her violent behavior).  So she is out of the picture.  I guess the question is if mother is not in the picture, the child who still does not have Russian Citizenship can obtain it (I have all child's legal documents about US birth certificate, Russian tourist visa because child visited Russia 18 months ago).

I guess the follow up question is if I still could maintain sole custody if I go with children to Russia, so children can study there.

Thanks for comments, at this point I seek insightful comments.

Online andrewfi

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17787
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Articles About Almost Anything!
If one of the kids is a boy then be ready for him to be drafted. The draft is being reduced in favour of a volunteer army but he might get a lucky number.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Fashionista

  • Member
  • Posts: 116
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Female
My experience in Russia and Canada, when dealing with government, you hardly ever need a lawyer. I guess it's different in the US. I believe it's the Russian embassy/consulate that deal with born abroad children to parents of which at least one is Russian. The simplest thing is to ask the Russian consulate/embassy what has to be done, and they will give a 100% accurate answer for free because they are they ones who are doing it. I am afraid if the wife is considered unable to take care of children, but that was determined by any other court than Russian, that may not work for Russian authorities. However, who knows, ask them.

Offline Pushkinlov

  • Member
  • Posts: 12
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Thanks Andrewfi and Fashionista.  I am not very concern about the military draft, I want both children to study in Russia and skip US education which is really bad and somehow detrimental to the brain.

Fashionista, the Russian Embassy has been somehow silent about my questions, perhaps because the mother is the Russian side of the equation.  I will ask a couple attorneys from Russia who I know.  I need to have certainty that I will keep the custody of the children if we are in Russia, and that I can get the children in and out for travel in holidays.  I have hospital reports (three) about mother's mental illness, and I am not sure if she had some precedent in Russian hospitals. The alternative would be to go to another country and just wait until they become adults, and then the boy can obtain the Russian citizenship on his own.

I will insist with the Russian Embassy and get facts from them.

Offline Gipsy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2343
  • Country: 00
Thanks Andrewfi and Fashionista.  I am not very concern about the military draft, I want both children to study in Russia and skip US education which is really bad and somehow detrimental to the brain.

Fashionista, the Russian Embassy has been somehow silent about my questions, perhaps because the mother is the Russian side of the equation.  I will ask a couple attorneys from Russia who I know.  I need to have certainty that I will keep the custody of the children if we are in Russia, and that I can get the children in and out for travel in holidays.  I have hospital reports (three) about mother's mental illness, and I am not sure if she had some precedent in Russian hospitals. The alternative would be to go to another country and just wait until they become adults, and then the boy can obtain the Russian citizenship on his own.

I will insist with the Russian Embassy and get facts from them.

To get the child Russia citizenship, BOTH parents have to attend the consulate, the Russian citizen makes the application on behalf of the child, and the foreign citizen have to sign to his/her agreement to the application.

To retain "Parental" control of the children whilst in Russia, you would need court orders from wherever (read USA) stating that you have custody of the children, AND that the other parent has given up their "parental rights" (Very Important), along with other doc's namely doctors/hospital/psychiatric reports. (which btw, along with the birth certificates, divorce doc's would probably need to carry an Apostille).

For Russia, being a foreigner, you would need the relevant visa for any prolonged stay.

As with all things Russian involving the courts, should your ex decide to return to Russia whilst you are in the country and challenge your Parental rights, who knows what the judges would decide.

In all seriousness, it may be better for you all to seek a different country to live..

Good Luck..
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Offline Pushkinlov

  • Member
  • Posts: 12
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Thanks Gipsy, and that is precisely my fear.  If there is no warranties for me to have control on the children in Russia, I will wait until they become adults so they make a decision on returning and having opportunities.  What I want to do is to buy an apartment for each of them so they don't have to worry about where to stay.

I have legal and physical custody of both children from the US, but this means nothing to the Russian government unless there is a loophole based on mother's mental illness (and I have three hospital reports plus Court records attesting to that). What I will do is to try to find answers about this particular matter.  I have already in place plan B and C regarding other countries.  I have been to Russia and spent time there, and Russia is an excellent place to raise children with family values and excellent education, and with minimum push from anybody to expose them to homosexual proclivity such as now happens in the US.  Even though I don't care or pay attention to homosexuals, I want to minimize exposure to them.

Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16577
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
To get the child Russia citizenship, BOTH parents have to attend the consulate, the Russian citizen makes the application on behalf of the child, and the foreign citizen have to sign to his/her agreement to the application.

When we did this, my participation was vague and not really required. It wasn't essential I was there, she just had to "get it signed" IIRC. From what I made out, if a Russian citizen applies for citizenship for their kid, it'll happen with or without the *actual* involvement of the other parent if foreign. Different consulates may vary of course.

Online AvHdB

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11425
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Ukraine, Kiev
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
I have l I have been to Russia and spent time there, and Russia is an excellent place to raise children with family values and excellent education, and with minimum push from anybody to expose them to homosexual proclivity such as now happens in the US.

Welcome to RUA.

Curious how well do you know the education system of both where you live and that of Russia?

As children move through the Russian/Ukraine education systems you might realize that the American system is superior in the 'high school' years.

I would suspect that you can find a private (public) school that can meet your needs. There is/was such a school I believe in Grand Rapids with a strong Slavic background.

“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Confederate

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7356
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Dating
  • Trips: 1-5
Thanks Gipsy, and that is precisely my fear.  If there is no warranties for me to have control on the children in Russia, I will wait until they become adults so they make a decision on returning and having opportunities.  What I want to do is to buy an apartment for each of them so they don't have to worry about where to stay.

I have legal and physical custody of both children from the US, but this means nothing to the Russian government unless there is a loophole based on mother's mental illness (and I have three hospital reports plus Court records attesting to that). What I will do is to try to find answers about this particular matter.  I have already in place plan B and C regarding other countries.  I have been to Russia and spent time there, and Russia is an excellent place to raise children with family values and excellent education, and with minimum push from anybody to expose them to homosexual proclivity such as now happens in the US.  Even though I don't care or pay attention to homosexuals, I want to minimize exposure to them.

You could avoid the nonsense you mentioned at the end by sending your kids to a private Christian school, however and very unfortunately those pushing this agenda will continue their efforts to infiltrate and weaken Christian values and Christian parents authority over their own children.
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. P. J. O'Rourke

Offline Pushkinlov

  • Member
  • Posts: 12
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Manny, I read your reply to Gipsy.  If that is true, then the maternal grandmother may sign or send a power of attorney letter to the embassy signing the application for citizenship.  Grandmother is aware of mother's mental illness.  So I have to explore this route.  Yet I want to keep control of the children, and if grandmother wants to come and live with us, that would be great.

AvHdB I will explore the Grand Rapids area, although I know in Cancun there is a Russian Speaking community and I just need to explore for educational opportunities.  I am skeptical about staying in the US. My children were taken by Children Services due to mother's violent behavior so they are in the system now here.  I have seen how children become objects of trade by the legal system (many people want my children so they can make money from them).  So I want to get the out of this country. 

A friend from Donetsk offered to educate my children, but I am not sure about this option. 

Online andrewfi

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17787
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Articles About Almost Anything!
Are you a target of child stealers for some reason? How come you and they are exposed to circumstances where that might be the case?
Are these kids your natural kids or some other father's?

...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Online AvHdB

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11425
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Ukraine, Kiev
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Pushkiniov,

Thank you for your reply. I would not worry about the educational system in Russia or Ukraine.

You need a lawyer, I would make a priority of gaining "control" of your children. You will need a couple things 1.) A job (you indicate you have the means to do this independently ) 2.) Stable housing.

You will need to be able to convince the court of these facts.

Worry about future education in 4 to 6 months.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Pushkinlov

  • Member
  • Posts: 12
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
 andrewfi, they are my natural kids, still very small.  Once a child goes through the system (children services) here they become coveted objects for profit and they will be taken away for any reason (I am speaking about government people). They are half Russian children which make them more of a target.  I recovered them against many people's wishes because they tried to keep them.  I don't want to expose them. 

AvHdB, I have enough means to support them.  I want to buy a flat in Russia, Moscow or Peter, but I am looking also at other cities with safety ratings such as Krasnodar or Sochi.  The cost of living in Russia is less than in the US.

Online AvHdB

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11425
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Ukraine, Kiev
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
So the children are with you now, correct?

Than move to another state once you have your affairs in order. It will force the Social (Child) Services to move files and case workers.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Pushkinlov

  • Member
  • Posts: 12
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
I hope everything will be in order in three months.  Yes, the children are with me. Once I deal with the legal issues in the Russian Embassy then I will know where to go.  Yet, I must look for the future for them, and Russia will be in the equation.  Once they become adults, they will have choices. 

Online Dogsoldier

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3573
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Україна
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Something missing in this narrative.
All I know is that Moby knows nothing - Plato.
Wiz loves talking out of his A******e - Me.

Online BillyB

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 717
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Pushkinlov, If you have 100% custody, you can take your kids anywhere you want. If the ex has any rights, you can't move very far without her permission.

If you move to Russia and your ex goes there and fights for custody, she may win custody of the kids. Money talks in Russia and can influence decisions. Russian doctors may not rule her as crazy as American doctors may have done.

Don't know where you live in America but there's plenty of good public and private schools in America that are good. Your kids have the best chance to survive and thrive here than anywhere else in the world. Less chance they will struggle here than in Russia.


Online msmoby

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8978
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Committed
  • Trips: 20+
This is not amateur hour

The OP should seek legal advice... as without ALL the facts he will get crappier advice than he is already receiving