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Author Topic: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW  (Read 39350 times)

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Offline longingforthesouth

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Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« on: September 30, 2014, 02:04:25 PM »
Hello everyone, I decided to begin this thread with some pictures. If you are an unregistered guest to this forum, I'm not sure whether you will be able to see them. Anyway, after the pictures, I will explain the whole point of this thread in detail. The pictures contain certain messages, which I translated for you from russian (I gave myself some liberty when I was translating them).

PICTURES



Bitches rule. An annoucement for a "bitchy" disco party in Russia.



Her Royal Highness The Bitch. For her, values, morals and humanism do not exist. She lives by the principle "It will be as I say!".



A tea / coffee cup with the sign: "Warning! Heartless bitch!"



Bitch: She is the one who rules the world!



It's good to be a woman anyway. "Bitch" sounds cuter than "A**hole".



I am what I am and I will not change. Why I love only myself? Because I deserved that love!



The book "School for Bitches"



Photo from the russian nightlife. She probably wants to make "cosy home" with you and she's a good "marriage material".



Bitch: Everything is in my hands. And if it's not in my hands, then it's under my feet.



Warning: A bitch!

Now will follow a next set of pictures before we arrive to the main point. Thank you for your patience.
Travelling to Russia and Ukraine since 2005.

Offline longingforthesouth

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2014, 02:07:32 PM »


I'm a bitch. I love myself, people respect me, they adore me, they envy me and I like that.



You are dumped, a**hole. Be happy!



The real bitch is not the one who brags about it loudly, but the one who will destroy your mind and ruin your life with an innocent smile.

ila_rendered

Bitch is the best girl in the world: She will make you drunk, she will f*** you over and she will send you to hell.



Our Katya never cries. She will dump her boyfriend before he could dump her. Cause our Katya is a bitch!



B.I.T.C.H.: Babe in Total Control of Herself.



I'm not a bitch nor a slut, don't blame me, it's just life.



The real bitch can be noticed from far away.



Vodka brand: "Bitch".



To be a bitch is cool, to be a bitch is classy, the bitch is everyone's dream etc...

Now will follow the main point.
Travelling to Russia and Ukraine since 2005.

Offline longingforthesouth

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2014, 02:10:14 PM »
INTRO

Yeah, maybe I'm writing too much, but sorry, I'm not a damn "Twitter dot com" to put all my inner feelings in 140 characters. A year or a two ago I noticed that there's a misunderstanding between the older and the younger gentlemen on this forum. Back then I tried to discuss these issues, but most of it fell on deaf ears, so I just left. Now I decided to come back (it's autumn, the weather is getting worse, so I spend more time by the PC).

Issue № 1: With all due respect to the older / experienced members, but they fail to understand that the times are changing and so is the dating scene. The FSU is not what it used to be 10,15 or 20 years ago. The tricks that they used with the FSU women back then are not working anymore.

Issue № 2: The dating industry spread fairy tales that the FSU women are waiting for Joe the Plumber to save them from loneliness, because "there are no quality men in Russia" and that they are just dying to cook for him, to make him babies and to build a "cosy home with him". Many WM travelled to the FSU only to find out that it's all a myth or maybe half-truth. Still, some gentlemen on this forum do not allow these myths to be deconstructed. Sure, there are many good FSU women. Good as gold! But I'd say that they are now becoming a minority.

BITCHINESS

We live in a time of globalisation. The young FSU women follow the same trends as their western counterparts. Many young FSU women are not family-oriented, they don't want to commit or to have kids or to cook. They don't read Pushkin or Chekhov and don't care about culture. Their profiles on the dating sites or social networks are full of photos from wild parties and vacations or selfies made with iphones on which they are showing gangsta rap / ghetto handgestures, middle fingers (like "f**k you") or simulation of cunnilingus (two fingers in front of the lips with a tongue between them). Girls just wanna have fun?

Bitchiness is now a global trend. You see it in music videos, movies, ads. Being called a "bitch" (in russian: стерва or сука) is no longer an offence. Now it's like a compliment:

"B.I.T.C.H.: Babe In Total Control of Herself".

In Russia now they have their own variations:

"С.Т.Е.Р.В.А.: Сногшибательная. Терпеливая. Единственная. Романтичная. Влюбчивая. Аккуратная".

"С.У.К.А.: Стерва. Умеющая. Казаться. Ангелом".

They are now trying to give the word "bitch" a positive connotation.

Many young russian women openly hate the US, they write about it, they post photos of themselves desecrating the american flag etc. On the other hand, they adopt the american "culture" and "values" (instead of picking the good things from the West, they adopt the worst). A vulgar Westernization and systematic "stupidization" is now going on in Russia and all over FSU. More and more young FSUW become quite stupid and superficial.

They are very arrogant, they don't want to commit, they have unrealistic demands and they are not serious. They sit on dating sites for ages just to kill time or to show off. Or to cheat (e.g. their boyfriends are serving in the army or they are on business trips). Many young FSUW that you meet on the dating sites are actually taken. You can check that on the russian social networks such as Vkontakte and Odnoklassniki. Don't be suprised to find photos of them kissing with their local boyfriends.

Even russian guys complain about their young women. For example, here's a popular site, where people share their opinion on various subjects in a typical russian way without any political correctness. It's a pitty that most of you don't understand russian, you will be shocked by what is written there about young RW. Concentrate on the red "hate" column: http://www.lovehate.ru/Russian-Girls/5

Please don't tell me about Elena's Models or such sites. They are created for western customers, so girls there write what you want to hear: "I good girl. I want make cosy home with you". If you want to experience the real thing, try russian sites: Loveplanet.ru, Mamba.ru, VK.ru etc. Find someone to translate for you and you'll be shocked by the negativity and vulgarity that can be found in some profiles. I speak russian almost fluently, I learned it by myself, so I know what I am talking about. Of course, not all of the women are bad. There are many decent young ladies!

I remember some western dating sites that used to spread some ridiculous myths like: "Russian girls grow up with 'The Red Riding Hood' and that's why they have stronger morality than the western women" or "Russian girls want to marry at a young age, because after 25 they will be considered OLD MAIDENS". Maybe russian бабушки (grannies) think that way, but not modern and urban FSUW. They want to be independent.

Some FSUW indeed marry at a young age, but lot of them choose wrong men and end as single mothers. Sad, but true. On dating sites I sometimes meet even 18, 19 or 20 year old single mothers. We just talk, single mothers are not my type.

One of them (18 y.o. from some god-forgotten mining town) told me that her ex-bf (the dad of her child) was beating her and cheating her and that she went online to find another guy. She quickly found one and they married in a ridiculously short time. But he was travelling a lot for studies or work and he was also cheating her and so on. Man, this is like a latinoamerican soap opera. This story sounded so ridiculous, I thought that some Yuriy or Boris is kidding me, however I found out that the girl is real. Many young FSUW are totally lost, shallow, irresponsible, everyone has an affair with everyone, they drink, smoke or even do recreational drugs (e.g. "spice"). Total decadence.

DOMESTIC VS. INTERNATIONAL DATING

Most of the young FSU women are no longer interested in finding a foreign partner. It does not matter whether you are from the US, Zimbabwe or Mars. Your country of origin will not always help you, no matter how prosperous it is. Actually, many young FSUW don't want ANY partner at all, even if he's russian or even if he's rich and handsome. Being single is no longer considered loneliness, but FREEDOM. Now it's cool to be "forever alone". I guess you heard that phrase. An attractive young FSUW can always find someone if she needs to have fun, nightlife, vacation or sex without commitments.

Dating foreigners was fashionable some years ago in the FSU, but now it's almost dead. Young FSU women preffer local guys. They hate non-Russians. Here I don't mean just Chechens and Dagestanis (лица кавказской национальности) or Turks or Arabs. I mean they hate FOREIGNERS IN GENERAL. Their profiles often say: Только русские (only ethnic Russians). Some profiles include restrictions such as: "Don't write me if you are a foreigner, be it caucasian, turk, american..." or some simply say: "No outside Moscow!". Some include ethnic slurs such as: чурки, хачи, пиндосы (Central Asians, Armenians, Americans). Some FSUW use message filters to stop foreigners in contacting them. Some sites (e.g. Loveplanet.ru) offer a pay "VIP status" that includes such filter. You can set it to block messages from people not from your city or country.

MOSCOW ÜBER ALLES

Muscovites can be especially elitistic. I find that Moscow-centrism totally stupid. Do all Americans dream to live in Washington D.C.? No. You can live quite well in NYC or L.A. or even on some ranch in Texas. Do all Canadians want to live in Ottawa? Do all Aussies want to live in Canberra? I don't think so. However, the whole FSU wants to live in Moscow, so the life there is unbearable. You know: traffic jams (пробки), illegal immigrants, crime, terrorism, racism, unreasonable prices, polution, police checks etc.

Of course, if you move to Moscow, that doesn't mean you will live on the Red Square, Arbat Street or in the elite suburb of Rublyovka. Most probably you will live in some depressing block of flats far from the center. With drunk gopniks (гопники) around you.You will have to travel for hours on a metro to get to work, surrounded by all kinds of smelly "characters". But anyway, getting a Moscow прописка (residency permit) is considered a "great achievement". How glamourous!

Strangely, I had successes with some trendy & snoby young women from Moscow, but they were exceptions, not the norm.

MISANDRY, FEMINISM & FSU MEN

I read various online discussions where young FSUW express themselves as troopers, sailors or coachmen (or how it is said in your culture?). Every second word coming from their mouths is х*й. Typical russian swearing (русский мат). Men are bashed and called names such as: козли, неудачники (losers, goats and stuff). Many young FSUW grew up without fathers, which is nothing to be ashamed of, however, some of them developed a pathological hatred for men. I have experienced it with some young FSUW. They want to "revenge" on men. Often their mothers influence them in a negative way.

It is a myth that FSU men are "privileged", because "they have plenty of beautiful women to choose from". Maybe this was the case after WWII when there was a gender disbalance, but not now. The disbalance problem was blown out of proportions by the dating industry. If you still believe that those beauties on the dating sites are "lonely", because they can't find "quality men", then you are very naive. An attractive young FSUW can always find a decent partner IF she wishes so.

In reality, there are many lonely FSU men! There are completely normal guys among them (middle class, decent appearance, educated). Check russian dating sites, they are full of them. Of course, there are also many idiots, alcohlics, maniacs and cheaters in Russia, but there are some decent men. I read how they often complain that the young FSUW became impossible to deal with (it's the same like in the West).

It's funny that there are still western men who buy the myth that "there is no feminism in Russia". Young FSUW are actually very independent, stubborn and demanding. Some of them can be really "Amazonian". Isn't that a sort of "feminism"? "Girl power"? It's not easy to win the affection of these young women, but even if you do, they can easily dump you for no special reason.

Typical for the young FSUW is the lack of self-criticism and no sence of forgivness, concensus or compromise. Their understanding of life is very black and white. They are always "right" and the guys are always "wrong". There is a sort of proverb circulating on the russian social networks:

"Everything depends on the man. If he's good, then the woman will mop the floor, but if he's bad, then she will ride that same mop as a witch".

Sounds reasonable? But you forget that it takes two for tango. You can be a great dancer like Travolta in "Saturday Night Fever", but your partner must cooperate!

Also, lot of them are very ungrateful. Once you are dumped, all your positive deeds will be forgotten. You travelled 1000's of miles to some "terra incognita" to meet her? You invested nerves, emotions and lots of money to be with her? You always treated her like a lady and satisfied all her needs? You respected her family, her nation and culture and you even learned her language? You fought against your local bureaucracy to bring her to your home? Who gives a f*** about your efforts. After you're dumped, she will easily find another idiot in no time. She will have full moral support from her friends and family, who will never bother to know your side of the story.

TRENDSETTERS

It is fashionable for many young FSUW to collect подписчики (subscribers, fans) in their VK or Instagram. Naive men subscribe to their pages hoping for something more and they click "likes" like crazy. These young FSUW have nothing else to offer this world except their looks. Some of them have 1000's of subscribers and are a sort of "celebrities". If they post some nonsence in their VK, every girl will copy that and spread it. Even unattractive or average young FSUW are trying to immitate those "celebrities", though they cannot afford such looks and lifestyles.

As a result, young women in smaller places also get contaminated by these stupid trends. Avoiding Moscow, Kiev or Odessa and searching in smaller towns will not necesarily help you to find a more modest girl. Every peasant girl now receives tons of messages and "likes" and thinks that she's Angelina Jolie and that she "deserves" special treatment. Why she deserves that, no one knows.

These stupid trends ruin the russian women not only spiritualy, but also physicaly. Maybe you noticed the latest fashion among them: they do something with their eyebrows, like shaving them off and then they paint them or something. Now they all look like caucasian brigands from epic folk songs with huge black eyebrows. It's absurd.

Thousands of FSUW are destroying their natural beauty just because some stylist / makeup artist decided that it is "trendy". I'm not a homophobe, but ussualy these stylists / makeup artists are gay and they don't know s**t about female beauty. What's next? They'll say that it is cool for girls to wear fake beards like that freak who won this year's Eurovision Song Contest?

TECHNOLOGY

Milions of young FSUW now own smartphones and though some of them are quite skilled in typing with their thumbs, it's impossible to make a decent correspondence that way. And the screens are not so big, you cannot see the picture of your interlocutor in it's full beauty (or ugliness). This among other factors contributes to the demise of online dating. People are getting dumber and dumber and they communicate in oneliners. The conversations are squeezed to: "привет как дела норм" (hi, whassup, cool).

Also, what's all the fuss about iPhones? I have an iphone and what? It's totally impractical. You must be a rocket scientist to use it. I want to delete a photo from one of my albums, but I can't, I must connect it to my PC and "sync" it to the folder from which I copied the photos, but it cannot be another PC  and blah - blah - blah.

By default, you cannot just drag and drop files like to a USB stick and you can't watch all video formats, unless you install some apps and so on. It's absurd. But anyway, iphones are considered sort of status symbol among the young FSUW and almost all of them upload selfies made with iphones in their WC's. Not only teenagers do this, but also women in their 20's and even early 30's.

CONCLUSION

Many of the older members of this forum are married and they are not up-to-date with the current trends. They are very biased and they always take it personally when someone dares to criticise the FSUW. Some guys here are directly involved in the dating industry (they own sites or agencies) and they do not allow any criticism. That renders a productive debate impossible.

There are some middle aged gentlemen here, who are still searching, but their target group are middle aged single mothers and they don't know what is happening among the younger FSUW. I'm in my 30's and my target group are young women in their 20's and early 30's.

I must admit that I too was biased. I had a 4 years of relationship with a russian girl. She was an embodiment of all positive values that we look in a russian women: smart and well-read, classy, sexy (but not slutty) and she was good in the kitchen, though she was very young when we started our relationship. She was a student in her late teens, but she had a very good upbringing. I was the first boyfriend in her life.

I had a false impression that the majority of young FSUW are like her, which proved not to be true. When our relationship ended, I decided to search in the FSU again and I found out that my ex- girlfriend was a rare exception and not the norm. Afterwards, I had several shorter relationships with russian or ukrainian girls and also some hmm... sexual adventures and as everyone else here, I also had some failed dates. Shortly speaking, I have experience in FSU dating, so I know very well what I'm talking about.

You say: the majority of FSUW are good, but there are always some rotten apples here and there. Right now, things are going more like: it's a sea of bad with some rare uncontaminated islands here and there.

I'm not some moralist, puritan or a taleban, this is a total decadence and moral degradation. I don't beleive in conspiracy theories, but it seems that some centers of power or corporations are intentionally spreading these stupid trends, maybe to make money out of it or to achieve some evil goals...
 
Of course, there are many good women in the FSU. But the best ones ussualy don't waste time on dating sites 24/7. Sadly we will never meet them. They do something useful in their lifes (work, study, sports, arts etc.). Many of them are in love with their local boyfriends or are happily married. Or they pursue careers or they take care of children (if they are single mothers).
Travelling to Russia and Ukraine since 2005.


Offline TomT

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2014, 03:05:41 PM »
Many of the older members of this forum are married and they are not up-to-date with the current trends. They are very biased and they always take it personally when someone dares to criticise the FSUW. Some guys here are directly involved in the dating industry (they own sites or agencies) and they do not allow any criticism. That renders a productive debate impossible.

The older married members know better than you that the FSU has produced the bitchiest, most insufferable girls that mankind has ever seen. Moreover, you don't know shit about whom we are likely to defend or to criticize. If a productive debate is impossible, it's because you presume to tell us what our attitude is.
"Get away from the keyboard little man. I know where you live." (Message left in my facebook mailbox by our resident psychopath.)

Offline AJ

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2014, 03:23:12 PM »
Quote
Of course, there are many good women in the FSU. But the best ones ussualy don't waste time on dating sites 24/7. Sadly we will never meet them. They do something useful in their lifes (work, study, sports, arts etc.). Many of them are in love with their local boyfriends or are happily married. Or they pursue careers or they take care of children (if they are single mothers).

Completely agree, and whats to be done?
 If men want to meet such women, its on them to find a way.
This is a place to discuss how.


To the rest of your post, you are basically saying  that most young girls are out having fun , perhaps partying and  not serious,  regardless where you find them in the world.
That seems pretty normal to me.

You also seem to be saying finding a true sweetheart is rare,. here ,there or anywhere. That also seems normal to me.

FWIW I've been in the FSU quite awhile ago and quite recently, regardless your take, the younger generation of FSU
women are not dramatically any different personality wise now , as they were then.

Regardless what culture a man looks in, if he is reasonably successful in life and dating, is  30,  and can't sort out a truly nice girl to date, the problem lies somewhere else, or in how he searches, or his expectations in attractiveness or other..
   Its not from some huge moral change recently that made the FSU a  culture of stervas..
 :hidechair:

There's some truth in your observations,
(mostly due to youth being youth in any culture- i know i sure wasn't ready to marry or be serious in my 20's)
and there was even a sterva school touring through major FSU cities..lol
However,  try and remember that the vast majority of images you posted where put up originally as jokes.
And a great many RW ,of any age, view them that way,as humorous,  not as some call to a way to live their life. :biggrin:
she had a hip with bad habits , and a shake that was a bit obscene

Offline Boris

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2014, 03:53:00 PM »
Many of the older members of this forum are married and they are not up-to-date with the current trends. They are very biased and they always take it personally when someone dares to criticise the FSUW. Some guys here are directly involved in the dating industry (they own sites or agencies) and they do not allow any criticism. That renders a productive debate impossible.



The older married members know better than you that the FSU has produced the bitchiest, most insufferable girls that mankind has ever seen. Moreover, you don't know shit about whom we are likely to defend or to criticize. If a productive debate is impossible, it's because you presume to tell us what our attitude is.

If I wasn't an atheist I'd say amen...


Offline Isthmus

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2014, 06:02:03 PM »
As a general rule of thumb I don't date women below 30 (I am early 40s). Experience has shown me that most women in their 20s are not ready to settle down and from their early 20s to mid 20s have a lot of attitude. This is not something unique to the FSU, it is a global condition and a function of the girls' ages. Quite simply, they are too young and not mature enough yet (generally speaking).

Recently when travelling abroad I breached my 'age 30+' rule and dated a lass who was 27, going on 28 because she was keen on meeting me and said she wasn't bothered about the age difference. Sweet, gentle, intelligent and well mannered lady. But there always are exceptions.

Then I contacted some mid 20s ladies as I was moving on to the FSU in my travels. Attitude and silly games, didn't even bother meeting with them and just focused on ladies in the 30-35 group and of course it was a much better experience.

So to the OP, it might just be a case of the demographic you are searching in rather than some tectonic shift in the mentality of women in the FSU?  :)

Offline longingforthesouth

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2014, 10:03:02 PM »
Many of the older members of this forum are married and they are not up-to-date with the current trends. They are very biased and they always take it personally when someone dares to criticise the FSUW. Some guys here are directly involved in the dating industry (they own sites or agencies) and they do not allow any criticism. That renders a productive debate impossible.

The older married members know better than you that the FSU has produced the bitchiest, most insufferable girls that mankind has ever seen. Moreover, you don't know shit about whom we are likely to defend or to criticize. If a productive debate is impossible, it's because you presume to tell us what our attitude is.

I always make correct predictions.

Don't be so angry TomT, just kidding.

To the rest of your post, you are basically saying  that most young girls are out having fun , perhaps partying and  not serious,  regardless where you find them in the world.
That seems pretty normal to me.

I don't have a problem if they have fun, I have a problem with:
- The dating industry, that misguided WM and made lots of $$$ by selling them myths or half-truths

- The timewasters on the dating sites. If they don't want anything serious, fine. They should get the f. off those sites. They can go to their local gopnik boyfriends and f. each other.

However,  try and remember that the vast majority of images you posted where put up originally as jokes.
And a great many RW ,of any age, view them that way,as humorous,  not as some call to a way to live their life.

What if I upload porn or nazi swastikas in my VK just for a "joke"? What would people think about me?

And you are underestimating the problem. Someone is investing good money in this "joke". There's a whole industry of music videos, movies and books that promote this bitch trend. Milions of young women want to immitate this. For example, do you know how many girls suffer from bulimia because of some stupid fashion trends? How can you underestimate the influence of the media? You are not that naive.

Perhaps in the US it also started as a "joke", but now there are milions of divorced men, who are looking for a bride overseas, because american bitches became immpossible to deal with. Maybe russian men will start do the same.

So to the OP, it might just be a case of the demographic you are searching in rather than some tectonic shift in the mentality of women in the FSU?  :)

Yes, I do believe that there is a shift in the mentality. And strangely, I had more success with much younger women than with those close to my age. Age means sh.., it's the soul, the heart and the upbringing that matters.

Now I'm not searching . I sit on some dating sites just to kill time and to troll. If the girls are not serious, then why should I bother?

If some girl wants to make 'cosy home' with me, then she can buy herself a flight ticket and visit me. And she must give me sexy time. And buy me things and iphones. I don't want to go to any Middle-of-nowhere-insk again. Been there many times, I'm sick of it.

I'd change my mind only if i find someone really really special, but I don't think it's worth it.
Travelling to Russia and Ukraine since 2005.

Offline TomT

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2014, 10:29:39 PM »
I always make correct predictions.

Sure you do. You probably predicted that I would take you to task for your use of the word, "never."
Your failure to mention it was merely an oversight, right?

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Offline welder

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2014, 02:46:16 AM »
And strangely, I had more success with much younger women than with those close to my age. Age means sh.., it's the soul, the heart and the upbringing that matters.

Now I'm not searching . I sit on some dating sites just to kill time and to troll. If the girls are not serious, then why should I bother?

If some girl wants to make 'cosy home' with me, then she can buy herself a flight ticket and visit me. And she must give me sexy time. And buy me things and iphones. I don't want to go to any Middle-of-nowhere-insk again. Been there many times, I'm sick of it.

I'd change my mind only if i find someone really really special, but I don't think it's worth it.

Longing you would be better served to be honest with, at the very least, yourself.  There is no crime in being attracted to younger women.  There is no crime in chasing younger women.  But younger people, when speaking of late teens early twenties, by definition are less experienced and in most cases,IMO, immature.  If you claim to be looking for a mature relationship than why focus in that age range.  You present yourself as an intelligent guy so this doesn't add up.  There is something amiss.

Three years ago you presented the same argument.  Three years on you have arrived at the same location.  Three years past you claimed the issue was not within.  The problem is not the ladies who inhabit the rest of the world.  Something you are doing, looking for, expecting or radiating is broken.

You say you had more success with younger ladies.   How do you define success?




Offline longingforthesouth

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2014, 10:50:57 AM »
So to the OP, it might just be a case of the demographic you are searching in rather than some tectonic shift in the mentality of women in the FSU?  :)

Yes, there are TECTONIC SHIFTS in the FSU. Mid class emerged, people own iphones, plasmas and decent cars, they spend holidays in Turkey, Egypt, UAE and some in the Seychelles, Goa and Thailand. Women become independent, westernized and career oriented. They have russian versions of "Cosmopolitan" and "Sex & the City". Even poor smalltown girls want to immitate this.

Years ago, most FSUW didn't have internet or used dial up, they had to scan photos, cause they didn't have digital cameras. We were writing long messages. Now its all smartphones and oneliners. All these changes are influencing the young FSUW in a negative way.


Longing you would be better served to be honest with, at the very least, yourself.  There is no crime in being attracted to younger women.  There is no crime in chasing younger women.  But younger people, when speaking of late teens early twenties, by definition are less experienced and in most cases,IMO, immature.  If you claim to be looking for a mature relationship than why focus in that age range.  You present yourself as an intelligent guy so this doesn't add up.  There is something amiss.

Three years ago you presented the same argument.  Three years on you have arrived at the same location.  Three years past you claimed the issue was not within.  The problem is not the ladies who inhabit the rest of the world.  Something you are doing, looking for, expecting or radiating is broken.

You say you had more success with younger ladies.   How do you define success?

Why you guys defocus from the subject and always blame the OP? It's like: all FSUW are saintesses and there must be "something wrong with the guy".

Let's be grown up: a huge percent of FSUW are not serious. They are not SO different than the WW, they are not all family oriented, they are not all SO sophisticated, they easily fall for stupid trends, they are not interested in foreigners, they have local choices, they cheat, they fart. It's not a blasphemy to admit this.

Sure there are exceptions! Girls who read Turgenev, who like museums and cinema classics such as "Ирония судьбы". I told you that I had a girl, who was in her late teens and who was like this.

But that does not mean that I necesaraly chase teenagers. You took that out of context. I do not choose by age. If I like the photo, I write. I like when the profile contains something inspirational.

But most of the profiles are empty, cause their owners don't give a sh. They are already taken anyway. VK.ru is your friend.

4 years of relationship (which nearly ended with a marriage) plus many shorter relationships with beautiful and smart young FSUW. Is that success or not? I guess it is something.
Travelling to Russia and Ukraine since 2005.

Online NS1

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2014, 11:10:21 AM »
So to the OP, it might just be a case of the demographic you are searching in rather than some tectonic shift in the mentality of women in the FSU?  :)

Yes, there are TECTONIC SHIFTS in the FSU. Mid class emerged, people own iphones, plasmas and decent cars, they spend holidays in Turkey, Egypt, UAE and some in the Seychelles, Goa and Thailand. Women become independent, westernized and career oriented. They have russian versions of "Cosmopolitan" and "Sex & the City". Even poor smalltown girls want to immitate this.

Years ago, most FSUW didn't have internet or used dial up, they had to scan photos, cause they didn't have digital cameras. We were writing long messages. Now its all smartphones and oneliners. All these changes are influencing the young FSUW in a negative way.


Longing you would be better served to be honest with, at the very least, yourself.  There is no crime in being attracted to younger women.  There is no crime in chasing younger women.  But younger people, when speaking of late teens early twenties, by definition are less experienced and in most cases,IMO, immature.  If you claim to be looking for a mature relationship than why focus in that age range.  You present yourself as an intelligent guy so this doesn't add up.  There is something amiss.

Three years ago you presented the same argument.  Three years on you have arrived at the same location.  Three years past you claimed the issue was not within.  The problem is not the ladies who inhabit the rest of the world.  Something you are doing, looking for, expecting or radiating is broken.

You say you had more success with younger ladies.   How do you define success?

Why you guys defocus from the subject and always blame the OP? It's like: all FSUW are saintesses and there must be "something wrong with the guy".

Let's be grown up: a huge percent of FSUW are not serious. They are not SO different than the WW, they are not all family oriented, they are not all SO sophisticated, they easily fall for stupid trends, they are not interested in foreigners, they have local choices, they cheat, they fart. It's not a blasphemy to admit this.

Sure there are exceptions! Girls who read Turgenev, who like museums and cinema classics such as "Ирония судьбы". I told you that I had a girl, who was in her late teens and who was like this.

But that does not mean that I necesaraly chase teenagers. You took that out of context. I do not choose by age. If I like the photo, I write. I like when the profile contains something inspirational.

But most of the profiles are empty, cause their owners don't give a sh. They are already taken anyway. VK.ru is your friend.

4 years of relationship (which nearly ended with a marriage) plus many shorter relationships with beautiful and smart young FSUW. Is that success or not? I guess it is something.

You realize the women in FSU are changing, this is likely true to some degree.
What you or anyone else really needs to know is simple, who you are and what you want.
Focus your search on that criteria and don't get involved in games and more important,
know when to say Next! Regardless if searching in FSU your hometown or any place else.
But odds are if chasing anyone under the age of 25 you will find more kids, not ready to settle down or to immature to make a lasting commitment. As always there are exceptions, some younger are ready and willing, some older are not ready either. Stating what your originally posted, could be said of most places. If you spend time searching for it, you will find it.
Regardless of what IT  is.
There is nothing permanent except change.

Offline AJ

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2014, 12:10:03 PM »
Quote from: longingforthesouth
I don't have a problem if they have fun, I have a problem with:
- The dating industry, that misguided WM and made lots of $$$ by selling them myths or half-truths

- The timewasters on the dating sites. If they don't want anything serious, fine. They should get the f. off those sites. They can go to their local gopnik boyfriends and f. each other.

......................
What if I upload porn or nazi swastikas in my VK just for a "joke"? What would people think about me?

And you are underestimating the problem. Someone is investing good money in this "joke". There's a whole industry of music videos, movies and books that promote this bitch trend. Milions of young women want to immitate this. For example, do you know how many girls suffer from bulimia because of some stupid fashion trends? How can you underestimate the influence of the media? You are not that naive.

Perhaps in the US it also started as a "joke", but now there are milions of divorced men, who are looking for a bride overseas, because american bitches became immpossible to deal with. Maybe russian men will start do the same.


Actually I'd say you are  overestimating the problem.

Sure, it is  a big issue on MOB sites,that likely cant be overstated..lol and while it exists in the general public at large, it is  often age, and maturity related,and not some epidemic of all FSU women.

Now its certainly possible you are 100%  correct, or perhaps I am, or the reality anywhere in between?
I'm open to all those ideas.. lol

The thing is, naive or not, I dint concentrate on the negatives, I searched for positive people and ignored all the white noise.

 You've been at it a few years.
At that very same time frame,  I faced the same mob Agency crapola you have, the same social  issues you seem to focus on.
Yet dint have that big of problem sorting through all the BS and finding a nice beautiful wife (28 when i met her,so within the age range your speak of) that is as  far from the stereotype you present,  as humanly possible.

I wish you luck, and understand you are trying to present the MOB agency route as completely jacked up.
They market to fantasy seekers and take their money.
If a guy is serious then he should recognize that is mostly fantasy,  and use them accordingly if he chooses. It is sham, not scam.
 You may find it amusing that i completely agree with you in that arena, and have harped on this same subject many many times. I do try to warn folks  that it is a poor way to search.. but i dint waste much of my time on that, until after i had found what i was looking for.
  I readily admit i used that method, as one of many means to meet interesting women, and ended up married through meeting someone in that way.
So it is possible,yet  it's a very poor method in general,as there is a lot of added white noise ,expense, and BS,
but it can be used successfully if you are realistic and keep your head on straight.

Get busy living.. or get busy dying..

You know the score ,so use that to your advantage, or winge about it.Your choice.

 :biggrin:
 



she had a hip with bad habits , and a shake that was a bit obscene

Offline longingforthesouth

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2014, 12:54:57 PM »
AJ, I have never used MOB agencies in my life. That's not for me. However I was reading their bullshit online. You know they have articles on their sites like: "why FSUW are superior to WW, they have the mysterious russian soul, they make borsch and babies".

And there are always fake testimonials, photos of blondes in bikinis, who "cannot find quality men". They post such crap to attract new customers, but I was never one of them. I have a well developed bullshit detector. I have never been scammed in my life.

What I used were honest dating sites. One was a pay site aimed at WM and the rest were all russian sites: Loveplanet, Mamba and social networks: VK, Odnoklassniki, Moy mir etc. I also met some FSU women without internet (e.g. on trains, planes, caffes etc.). I don't need wingmen, agencies or translators.
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Offline AKA Luke

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2014, 01:14:59 PM »
AJ, I have never used MOB agencies in my life. That's not for me. However I was reading their bullshit online. You know they have articles on their sites like: "why FSUW are superior to WW, they have the mysterious russian soul, they make borsch and babies".

And there are always fake testimonials, photos of blondes in bikinis, who "cannot find quality men". They post such crap to attract new customers, but I was never one of them. I have a well developed bullshit detector. I have never been scammed in my life.

What I used were honest dating sites. One was a pay site aimed at WM and the rest were all russian sites: Loveplanet, Mamba and social networks: VK, Odnoklassniki, Moy mir etc. I also met some FSU women without internet (e.g. on trains, planes, caffes etc.). I don't need wingmen, agencies or translators.


You need a reality check.
I know I am I'm sure I am I'm Rotherham til I die!

Offline longingforthesouth

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2014, 01:18:35 PM »
AJ, I have never used MOB agencies in my life. That's not for me. However I was reading their bullshit online. You know they have articles on their sites like: "why FSUW are superior to WW, they have the mysterious russian soul, they make borsch and babies".

And there are always fake testimonials, photos of blondes in bikinis, who "cannot find quality men". They post such crap to attract new customers, but I was never one of them. I have a well developed bullshit detector. I have never been scammed in my life.

What I used were honest dating sites. One was a pay site aimed at WM and the rest were all russian sites: Loveplanet, Mamba and social networks: VK, Odnoklassniki, Moy mir etc. I also met some FSU women without internet (e.g. on trains, planes, caffes etc.). I don't need wingmen, agencies or translators.


You need a reality check.

Why?
Travelling to Russia and Ukraine since 2005.

Offline AJ

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2014, 02:32:44 PM »
AJ, I have never used MOB agencies in my life. That's not for me. However I was reading their bullshit online. You know they have articles on their sites like: "why FSUW are superior to WW, they have the mysterious russian soul, they make borsch and babies".

And there are always fake testimonials, photos of blondes in bikinis, who "cannot find quality men". They post such crap to attract new customers, but I was never one of them. I have a well developed bullshit detector. I have never been scammed in my life.

What I used were honest dating sites. One was a pay site aimed at WM and the rest were all russian sites: Loveplanet, Mamba and social networks: VK, Odnoklassniki, Moy mir etc. I also met some FSU women without internet (e.g. on trains, planes, caffes etc.). I don't need wingmen, agencies or translators.

I met women through those means as well.my wife I met from her profile at an agency. I've lived in the FSU, met plenty of very nice RW here and there ,so i just can't completely  buy what you are selling.

 As far as the agencies, they tell the men they market to exactly what they want to hear.
Do you think your local new or used car dealer doesn't do the same? It may seem unethical,but its big business.

If you don't use them, I can't see why you'd be too concerned.

As far as meeting a boatload of stervas through more regular channels, then  labeling the society as utterly  flawed..

I find you're likely overstating, from my experience.
 I met women off mamba, most were quite well adjusted, nice and family oriented.
Could I find a lot of young party girls listed on mamba as well? sure.
The profiles normally give you a clue, any interaction after that certainly should. If they got past those filters, then a first date would let me know we weren't compatible.(but she would be with someone else)
nyet problem?

I certainly am not selling some fantasy that the FSU is absolutely chalk full of  young models who are family oriented and suzy homemakers?
 Yet I'm certainly well enough versed in both living in the FSU and dating/living with RW the last 2 decades to say it isn't filled with stervas either as a generality. (:)

 I know a dozen FSU women in the 25 to 32 age range off the top of my head that are very family oriented, beautiful and
nothing like your stereotype.Just fixed a guy up with one of them a few weeks ago, they seem to have hit it off and continue dating.

I'm not saying they are around every corner, but they certainly are not that hard to find,. You can hold on to your opinion dearly, but the average RW is married and has a family.She likely is reasonable and hardly a bitch.
More importantly, her unmarried friends are very much like her, and that constitutes the bulk of the female population, not what you portray.
Does the bitchy , entitled , party club  girl mentality exist ? Sure , absolutely. but no one needs to date them unless they want to,and its certainly not all you'd find in the FSU.
she had a hip with bad habits , and a shake that was a bit obscene

Offline JayH

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2014, 05:36:51 PM »
I think LFTS has got more right than wrong here.Generalisations are never 100% accurate but here is a fair attempt at outlining a lot of issues.Certainly   it does apply to at least some.As he has pointed out several times the "old" timers here are out of touch-- funny how are few jumped straight into thread !!

LFTS--your comments seem very like some conversations I had-- have you more recently been based in a city not in your signature?Maybe you had a small problem on exit?

Offline TomT

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2014, 06:43:29 PM »
AJ,

We've been debunking the myths about FSUW for nearly fifteen years now and the topic is getting very long of tooth. It's futile anyway because there so much variation between individuals that it's difficult to know where the average lies.
"Get away from the keyboard little man. I know where you live." (Message left in my facebook mailbox by our resident psychopath.)

Offline AJ

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2014, 06:57:13 PM »
Tom, true enough.

I'm hardly a defender of RW on a pedestal...
they are women ,and individuals, like any other nationality.

If folks think they have some cultural  monopoly on being bitchy, then those folks havn't dated in various cultures much.
she had a hip with bad habits , and a shake that was a bit obscene

Offline longingforthesouth

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2014, 07:16:02 PM »
Just fixed a guy up with one of them a few weeks ago, they seem to have hit it off and continue dating.

Meeting through mutual friends is great, but not all of us have that possibility like your lucky friend. I always had to "FIX" everything myself. Do you understand the difference?

the average RW is married and has a family.She likely is reasonable and hardly a bitch. More importantly, her unmarried friends are very much like her

OK, but we rarely see such good women on dating sites. They don't sit there 24/7. They work, study, workout, make handcrafts, dance kazachok, take care of babies (if they are single mums). Some of them may not be interested in foreigners and don't want to live abroad. Some hate  the dating industry and don't want to be in catalogues. Some don't believe in online dating, let alone international dating. Some may be shy. Some are already taken. Etc...

Do you think your local new or used car dealer doesn't do the same?

How can you compare cars and human beings? I've never been scammed by dishonest agencies, but still, what they do is intolerable. Misguided by their myths, many WM travel to the FSU and spend loads of $$$ only to find out that no one wants them there. The loss of money is not so important, but the emotional manipulation.

No offence, but you are married and maybe you are a little bit biased and you don't see the bad things so much.

Anyway, thank you for sharing your story, but I'm trying to understand it. Is it like you lived / worked in the FSU for a long time? You had friends there? Or you lived in the US and you travelled abroad to meet your lady? Details mean a lot.
Travelling to Russia and Ukraine since 2005.

Offline AJ

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2014, 08:00:10 PM »
Readers digest version- I lived and worked ,based out of a  FSU country a few years back in late the 90's. I moved back to the US in 99 but still worked part time over there  and married a UW soon thereafter.My job transitioned back to full time in the US ,we were married 7 years total, then parted ways amicably.
 I then dated both locally and internationally a couple years ,ultimately met a UW thru an agency in early 2010, we married in the fall of 2011.
Certainly doesn't make me an expert,yet i have plenty of family/friends and aquantences in the FSU that disprove ,at least to me, the *all sterva * theory.
You seem to be saying this is a difficult road for most western men to travel..i've never disagreed. Ive walked it a couple times and seen all the potholes you brought up.
You seem to feel the MOB agencies are in general suspect ,unethical. i dont disagree.


I have plenty of empathy,but feel you're approaching this with the wrong attitude.If your past experiences have you that jaded about it, then i'd move
simply on and forget the whole deal.
If you want to pursue it, I'd drop the *they are all bitches* mentality, and simply look for the right girl for you.. and recognize its not a cakewalk , in any country.
Life's not fair, seems rule number one .


she had a hip with bad habits , and a shake that was a bit obscene

Offline welder

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2014, 09:59:11 PM »

Why you guys defocus from the subject and always blame the OP? It's like: all FSUW are saintesses and there must be "something wrong with the guy".
Longing I focus on the OP because you are the one here posting. Not much I can do to assist nonexisting ladies whom seek advice/opinions on how they could be more successful in meeting men.  Of course I am attempting to make an effort to assist you.  I took the time and effort to read your previous posts before writing my response above.

Note that I didn't say there is something wrong with you, as in you are some freak.  Read my response above with this in mind.  You haven't reached your goal so something is not working.  What is it?  I don't know.  Only by asking questions can we expand our knowledge base and have an adult conversation.



Let's be grown up: a huge percent of FSUW are not serious. They are not SO different than the WW, they are not all family oriented, they are not all SO sophisticated, they easily fall for stupid trends, they are not interested in foreigners, they have local choices, they cheat, they fart. It's not a blasphemy to admit this.

Sure there are exceptions! Girls who read Turgenev, who like museums and cinema classics such as "Ирония судьбы". I told you that I had a girl, who was in her late teens and who was like this.

Of course, and who disagrees, you are singing to the choir.  The difference being that if these ladies are the same world over, then deal with it.  Stop worrying about the stuff you cannot control and move on to that which brings you closer to your end game.

But that does not mean that I necesaraly chase teenagers. You took that out of context. I do not choose by age. If I like the photo, I write. I like when the profile contains something inspirational.

But most of the profiles are empty, cause their owners don't give a sh. They are already taken anyway. VK.ru is your friend.

OK fair enough, but it was you who said that you had more success with younger ladies.  If that is the case then I was probing for why?  Is it because they are less jaded, more willing to listen to BS, intrigued by an older guy, have less self confidence, don't question as much, hard bodies, what?????

4 years of relationship (which nearly ended with a marriage) plus many shorter relationships with beautiful and smart young FSUW. Is that success or not? I guess it is something.
This is the same relationship where you said you blew it three years ago.  Are you still hung up on that girl?  Don't take that as a flame.  Obviously that was a special relationship for you but it's three years on mate.  Are you looking at each girl and speaking of this relationship?

Anyway longing, its up to you if you want to discuss your situation.  Yes that means having to have adult discussions where you may not like or want to hear other opinions. 

Maybe , just maybe, the older married guys do have something to offer you after all.  It isn't all luck, that's naive and dishonest.

Offline TomT

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2014, 10:29:02 PM »
If you state what you've learned since you posted in 2011, other than that FSU girls are bitches, it would save us all some time. Please be brief because some of our members have the attention span of fruit flies.
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Offline longingforthesouth

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Re: Sex, Lies and Videotape: Deconstructing the myths about FSUW
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2014, 11:39:19 PM »
Welder, I'm not searching anymore. I just shared my opinion. It's well founded on experience and I'll not change it. Now I'm on dating sites just to kill time. Also, we have pretty girls in my country. We make sexy time with no strings attached, cause they are "independent".

AJ, respect for your story! But you are not a typical online dater. You lived there since the 90's and you married a UW "before it was cool" as hipsters say.

While living there in the 90s, I assume you made friends, learned the mentality. You are an american and foreigners were "cool". It was the era of Yeltsin and Kuchma, the economy was bad. I assume that gave you an advantage.

Most of the WM could not have your experience. Their only "window" to the FSU is the monitor. They travel to the "lion's den" with no experience or local support. No friends to fix dates with trusted and quality women.

Not all of us can live in the FSU. If you live there dating is easier. Especialy 10-15-20 years ago.

TomT , y r u so angry? It's futile, yes. So what? We're just talking. I wanted to write a sort of "e-book". Not for the members,  of course, but for newbies and guests. If you think this all sux, close this thread. I dunno who's the mod.
Travelling to Russia and Ukraine since 2005.