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Author Topic: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW  (Read 35922 times)

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Online Steamer

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Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« on: September 01, 2014, 10:38:56 PM »
Is anyone else dealing with this?
Apparently a law was passed in Russia that requires Russian citizens with dual citizenship to register with the Rus. consulate before Oct. 4. Reliable details about this are hard to come by. Embassy website gives contradictory info about what to do and has me totally confused.

Any input would be appreciated.
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Offline sparky114

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2014, 11:37:49 PM »
Wifey is just doing this at the moment

Will update when i know anything more

But the process so far is she has been to OVIR was given the forms, and will now get her UK passport translated then have to take it to the UFMS office

All i know at the moment.
Today is only one day in a life of happiness

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Offline Orchid

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2014, 11:49:01 PM »
Is anyone else dealing with this?
Apparently a law was passed in Russia that requires Russian citizens with dual citizenship to register with the Rus. consulate before Oct. 4. Reliable details about this are hard to come by. Embassy website gives contradictory info about what to do and has me totally confused.

Any input would be appreciated.

Any Russian citizen must have registration.
It can be any place in Russia.
For example, I live in the USA.
I still have my house in Russia. I am registered at my house.
When I sell it, I will have to be registered at Russian consulate in Seattle.
I do not know why you think it’s new. It’s an old rule.


Offline sparky114

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2014, 12:25:57 AM »
Is anyone else dealing with this?
Apparently a law was passed in Russia that requires Russian citizens with dual citizenship to register with the Rus. consulate before Oct. 4. Reliable details about this are hard to come by. Embassy website gives contradictory info about what to do and has me totally confused.

Any input would be appreciated.

Any Russian citizen must have registration.
It can be any place in Russia.
For example, I live in the USA.
I still have my house in Russia. I am registered at my house.
When I sell it, I will have to be registered at Russian consulate in Seattle.
I do not know why you think it’s new. It’s an old rule.

Orchid, you have missed the post meaning.

What the new rule is as follows

If you have Russian citizenship, but also have say American or British or another country citizenship I>E the passport from that country, you have to inform the UFMS of your second citzenship or passport you hold

Hope that helps
Today is only one day in a life of happiness

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2014, 12:48:59 AM »
Sparky, your wife need not do her UK passport translation,  copy will be enough.
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Offline TrevorM

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2014, 03:46:20 AM »
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I had the impression that this only applied to Russians who are actually resident in Russia and not those resident in other countries.

Offline MrMann

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2014, 04:19:58 AM »
That was my understanding also Trevor.

Quote from: ITAR-TASS
An exception is made for those permanently resident abroad

http://en.itar-tass.com/opinions/1798

Although this article from June states that it hadn't then been made clear whether or not it affected expatriates.

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-expatriates-dual-citizenship-law/25432010.html

Offline heijdenj

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2014, 04:24:29 AM »
Hi,

This one is puzzling me completely now.

Originally we were thinking that the registration was not necessary for us. To make sure we have contacted the Russian embassy in The Netherlands about this registration. We were being told that, if applicable, the registration also needs to be done by Russians living in The Netherlands. What is puzzling me is that we were being told that this registration could only be done in Russia. If Russians living outside The Russian federation have to do it as well, why do they first have to travel (within a few months) to Russia?

Were we being fed a line?
Am I understanding correctly that in other countries this is not the case?
Are there any cloggies who have solved this issue?

Thanks for any clarification, Jan

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2014, 04:56:52 AM »
Article Six of the Russian Federation Constitution allows for dual citizenship. The new law, at least for now, doesn't ban it outright, but allows officials to levy fines to those who fail to register. The fine is 200,000 rubles and/or 400 hours of community service upon conviction.

The Federal Migration Service estimates that some 30 million Russians live outside the country.

The facts from MFA:

- The deadline for registration is 4 October, for those who live in Russia.

- Those who fail to register will eventually be filed for criminal charges, including being labeled as a "foreign agent."

- Embassies and Consulates abroad can not facilitate the registration--it must be done in a Russia MFA office.


The good news for those living outside Russia:

- You do not have to make a special trip to Russia to register.

- However you absolutely must register upon your next visit to Russia. You will then have 60 days while inside Russia to get it done. You may not however, leave without registering.

- The FMA has stressed that any entry into Russia, no matter how short that visit may be, you must register prior to leaving Russia. (That may impact those planning holiday travel when many state offices are closed for extended periods of time.)

If you still have questions:



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Offline heijdenj

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2014, 05:20:28 AM »
Mendeleyev,

Thank you so much for that!! That is very clear :party0031:
Highly appreciated.

Jan

Offline TrevorM

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2014, 05:40:41 AM »
Thanks Mendy.

- The FMA has stressed that any entry into Russia, no matter how short that visit may be, you must register prior to leaving Russia. (That may impact those planning holiday travel when many state offices are closed for extended periods of time.)

That may indeed cause problems.

Probably a question for Sparky:-

Do you have any idea how long the process takes? Is it just a question of getting the forms from OVIR, completing them and visiting FMS? In short, could it be done in a single day?

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2014, 05:45:19 AM »
Putin is building a New North Korea, perhaps his name will become Poo Tin when he achieves this...
O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.

Offline Fashionista

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2014, 05:53:28 AM »
Is anyone else dealing with this?
Apparently a law was passed in Russia that requires Russian citizens with dual citizenship to register with the Rus. consulate before Oct. 4. Reliable details about this are hard to come by. Embassy website gives contradictory info about what to do and has me totally confused.

Any input would be appreciated.

Any Russian citizen must have registration.
It can be any place in Russia.
For example, I live in the USA.
I still have my house in Russia. I am registered at my house.
When I sell it, I will have to be registered at Russian consulate in Seattle.
I do not know why you think it’s new. It’s an old rule.

Orchid, it's a new law. It's being actively discussed on Russian expat forums. They are threatening with fines and even with criminal prosecution,  so everyone who travels to Russia to see family, friends or for other reasons must comply. You can watch this video, there is a little more here on the procedure. Now, how accurately they describe it at the press conference is not clear. For example, they say in this video that if you are no longer registered in Russia, you don't have to do it, which apparently is wrong. You have to mail the paperwork anyway.



Offline Fashionista

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2014, 05:57:17 AM »
Thanks Mendy.

- The FMA has stressed that any entry into Russia, no matter how short that visit may be, you must register prior to leaving Russia. (That may impact those planning holiday travel when many state offices are closed for extended periods of time.)

That may indeed cause problems.

Probably a question for Sparky:-

Do you have any idea how long the process takes? Is it just a question of getting the forms from OVIR, completing them and visiting FMS? In short, could it be done in a single day?

You download the form, fill it out, attach copies of ID's/passports, mail them, and (important!) keep the stamped confirmation slip. I guess it depends on how close the post office is. Watch the video in my previous post for more (in Russian)

Offline Ste

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2014, 06:05:21 AM »
I suppose it employs a few more babushkas to abuse people through a window.....
O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2014, 06:05:58 AM »
Thanks Mendy.

- The FMA has stressed that any entry into Russia, no matter how short that visit may be, you must register prior to leaving Russia. (That may impact those planning holiday travel when many state offices are closed for extended periods of time.)

That may indeed cause problems.

Probably a question for Sparky:-

Do you have any idea how long the process takes? Is it just a question of getting the forms from OVIR, completing them and visiting FMS? In short, could it be done in a single day?

You download the form, fill it out, attach copies of ID's/passports, mail them, and (important!) keep the stamped confirmation slip. I guess it depends on how close the post office is. Watch the video in my previous post for more (in Russian)

What form?  do you have a link to it?
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

Offline Fashionista

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2014, 06:12:24 AM »
Thanks Mendy.

- The FMA has stressed that any entry into Russia, no matter how short that visit may be, you must register prior to leaving Russia. (That may impact those planning holiday travel when many state offices are closed for extended periods of time.)

That may indeed cause problems.

Probably a question for Sparky:-

Do you have any idea how long the process takes? Is it just a question of getting the forms from OVIR, completing them and visiting FMS? In short, could it be done in a single day?

You download the form, fill it out, attach copies of ID's/passports, mail them, and (important!) keep the stamped confirmation slip. I guess it depends on how close the post office is. Watch the video in my previous post for more (in Russian)

What form?  do you have a link to it?

From FMS site

http://www.fms.gov.ru/russian_national/inoe_grazhdanstvo/

Offline krassavchick

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2014, 06:13:24 AM »
I suppose it employs a few more babushkas to abuse people through a window.....

In that case they would be babki  :chuckle:

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2014, 06:15:30 AM »
I suppose it employs a few more babushkas to abuse people through a window.....

In that case they would be babki  :chuckle:

Goni babki!!
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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2014, 08:10:45 AM »
Orchid, you have missed the post meaning.

Orchid, it's a new law.

WOW! Thank you.
What a news!  But...... nothing new about Russia.

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2014, 08:12:44 AM »
Putin is building a New North Korea, perhaps his name will become Poo Tin when he achieves this...

I agree.

Offline BelleZeBoob

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2014, 08:23:50 AM »
Article Six of the Russian Federation Constitution allows for dual citizenship. The new law, at least for now, doesn't ban it outright, but allows officials to levy fines to those who fail to register. The fine is 200,000 rubles and/or 400 hours of community service upon conviction.

The Federal Migration Service estimates that some 30 million Russians live outside the country.

The facts from MFA:

- The deadline for registration is 4 October, for those who live in Russia.

- Those who fail to register will eventually be filed for criminal charges, including being labeled as a "foreign agent."

- Embassies and Consulates abroad can not facilitate the registration--it must be done in a Russia MFA office.


The good news for those living outside Russia:

- You do not have to make a special trip to Russia to register.

- However you absolutely must register upon your next visit to Russia. You will then have 60 days while inside Russia to get it done. You may not however, leave without registering.

- The FMA has stressed that any entry into Russia, no matter how short that visit may be, you must register prior to leaving Russia. (That may impact those planning holiday travel when many state offices are closed for extended periods of time.)

If you still have questions:

(Attachment Link)

Call centre hours, Moscow time, is between 10am and 5pm. Calls are not answered during tea/lunch time: 1-2pm.

The Mendy's post is the most informative as usually :) May I just add something substantial.

I have heard (this needs to be re-checked, though!) that the new law obliges to self-report not only those who hold a citizenship but also a permanent residence of a state other than Russia. Please re-check this.

As Mendy wrote, only those need to self-report who ''lives'' in Russia. meaning those who is registered as a resident in any Russian location. That means, if your internal Russian passport still has this permanent resident registration stamp showing your address, you have to self-report your dual citizenship. In case a migrant cancelled your registration, you are deemed to be ''not living'' in Russia, therefore you don't have to self-report to the Russian authorities. One of my Canadian acquaintances is going to Russia soon in order to cancel her permanent registration, so that she does not have to self-report.

Regarding the postal way of a self-reporting. A person who ''lives'' in Russia has to self-report at the office where he or she is ''living''. Upon the self-reporting, the person will be given a detachable coupon that serves as a proof of the self-reporting as well as of the date of it. This coupon, if carried with the international passport, serves as a proof that the self-reporting duty is fulfilled in time. Each time the Russian border services will take the international passport in their hands for checking / stamping, they will notice the coupon or the absence of it. In the latter case, they may start asking questions that may lead to the point where they may want to arrange a protocoll of an alleged infringement of this law. This protocoll arrangement may take time, which can be crucial in the airports especially if the passenger has to change planes or is pressed for time anyway. Thus, the person may find himself/herself involved in a lawsuit right on the border. That would be a risk of non-having the detachable coupon with you.
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Offline MrMann

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2014, 08:30:23 AM »
I have heard (this needs to be re-checked, though!) that the new law obliges to self-report not only those who hold a citizenship but also a permanent residence of a state other than Russia. Please re-check this.

So if someone has only Russian citizenship but their permanent residence is outside Russia then they also need to register? Can anyone confirm if this is the case please?

Offline Fashionista

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2014, 08:35:55 AM »


I have heard (this needs to be re-checked, though!) that the new law obliges to self-report not only those who hold a citizenship but also a permanent residence of a state other than Russia. Please re-check this.

As Mendy wrote, only those need to self-report who ''lives'' in Russia. meaning those who is registered as a resident in any Russian location. That means, if your internal Russian passport still has this permanent resident registration stamp showing your address, you have to self-report your dual citizenship. In case a migrant cancelled your registration, you are deemed to be ''not living'' in Russia, therefore you don't have to self-report to the Russian authorities. One of my Canadian acquaintances is going to Russia soon in order to cancel her permanent registration, so that she does not have to self-report.




So if someone has only Russian citizenship but their permanent residence is outside Russia then they also need to register? Can anyone confirm if this is the case please?

Well, the oficial sources are quite clear about it (e.g. see my link to FMS - or read the actual law).

1. Настоящий Порядок устанавливает последовательность действий при подаче уведомлений о наличии у гражданина Российской Федерации иного гражданства либо вида на жительство или иного действительного документа, подтверждающего право на его постоянное проживание в иностранном государстве1.

Which means permanent residency counts.

Regarding the registration. I am still confused about it. The press-conference says you don't have to do it if you are not registered (прописан) in Russia. However, the letter of the law doesn't say anything of the sort, and actual physical presence in Russia seems to suffice. Some Russian lawyers (or at least people who say they are) insist that it doesn't matter, if you are a Russian citizen with a foreign citizenship/permanent residency, you must report it upon arrival to Russia using your actual place of visit as a place of "registration". I am going to do it anyway, don't wanna get in trouble with Russian authorities  >:(

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Re: Dual Citizenship registration for FSUW
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2014, 08:42:09 AM »
The Mendy's post is the most informative as usually :)

Yes. Thank you, our precious Mendy!


 

 

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