finding out whom she really is...

[thought4mass]

My name is John and i currently live in "little russia" or i should say Brighton Beach Brooklyn, NY. Im writing this to talk about my 2 1/2 year relationship with a Ukrainian/Lithuanian lady. My story might be simular to some and may serve as advice for others. And as you read this you may see the red flags i should have seen early in the relationship. 2 years ago i met a lady online via facebook. we started by chatting via skype 2 or 3 times a week for 1 hour or so. When i first met her she told me her age was 26. I am 50. She told me she was married before and got divorced 3 years ago. She talked of husband hitting her and jealous and so on. She talked of her interest in yoga. She has been practincing it for 4 years, her beliefs are spiritual. So she does not practice in a faith. It took 2 weeks before she told me her real age "36" and that she had 2 children 11 and 14 years old. She said she did not want to tell her real age and about her children. I was reluctant to have a relationship with a woman with 2 children. Especially them being of that age. But i continued chatting and getting to know her. Finally we talked of meeting. It involved me going to lIthuania as she lived there, moving from Kiev when she married her husband. Ill continue the rest of this soon. Promise. Take care, John I've attached a photo so you can get an idea of her and i in happier times.

[thought4mass]

My name is John and i currently live in "little Russia" or i should say Brighton Beach Brooklyn, NY. I'm writing this to talk about my 2 1/2 year relationship with a Ukrainian/Lithuanian lady. My story might be similar to some and may serve as advice for others. And as you read this you may see the red flags i should have seen early in the relationship. 2 years ago i met a lady on line via facebook. we started by chatting via skype 2 or 3 times a week for 1 hour or so. When i first met her she told me her age was 26. I am 50. She told me she was married before and got divorced 3 years ago. She talked of husband hitting her and jealous and so on. She talked of her interest in yoga. She has been practicing it for 4 years, her beliefs are spiritual. So she does not practice in a faith. It took 2 weeks before she told me her real age "36" and that she had 2 children 11 and 14 years old. She said she did not want to tell her real age and about her children. I was reluctant to have a relationship with a woman with 2 children. Especially them being of that age. But i continued chatting and getting to know her. Finally we talked of meeting. It involved me going to Lithuania as she lived there, moving from Kiev when she married her husband. Ill continue the rest of this soon. Promise. Take care, John I've attached a photo so you can get an idea of her and i in happier times.

Part 2
She did not want to tell me her real age and of her children until she got to know me better. So after chatting somemore, we decided that i would come there. The month for my visit would be January, as she wanted to meet as soon as possible. Before arriving i checked on line to rent a flat in Vilnius. I found a good one for a very nice rate and reserved it. First week of January i took a flight out of JFK in New York bound for London. From there i took a flight to Vilnius. She had prepared for my visit by taking time off from her work. She worked as an administrator for the Lithuanian Transportanion secretary. She also made sure her children stayed with her ex-husband whom also lived in Vilnius. She made sure to go by the flat to ensure it was indeed like the photos i saw, and that she would like to stay there. She found all to be OK. I should point out some things at this time. I did chat with her children via Skype once or twice prior to my visit. She is able to speak English very well, but has a confidence problem believing she can speak it. I did mail her and her children small gifts from time to time and she mailed me a handmade scarf, personalized t shirt and assorted art work as she likes to draw. 

Part 3

So, I arrived in Vilnius about noon time. It was of course snowing and very cold. i came out of the arrival gate and was pleasantly surprised by the woman whom was waiting for me. She was attractive and way better in person than on skype! we smiled and hugged and kissed hello. The scent of her hair was nice and she was dressed in a business suit, as it was the last day of her work before her vacation to spend time with me. We took a taxi to the flat. There i met the landloard whom showed us around the flat. It had a flat screen tv, fully equiped kitchen and very nice sized bathroom. Wifi was also available in the flat. After showing us around the landloard left. We decided to go grocery shopping and went out to the mall to do this and just look around some. It had stopped snowing by then and people were about shopping and such. After shopping we came back to the flat and began talking. She told me about how her mother lives in Coney Island and had pettiononed her and her children to come to the U.S. It had been about 9 years waiting and she said her mother informed her that this pettion would be approved. ( In June of last year it was). We talked of past relationships and of her children. We cooked and watched movies and just became really comforatable with each other. BY the end of my visit we seemed to get along well and had no major difficulties. i met her children 3 days before i left. I asked them what did they think of their mother's and i relationship. The son said he didnt know and her daughter said she only wished for her mother to be happy. all seemd well. By June her mother had made arrangements for her to arrive in the U.S. Before this she had told her mother about us to which she wanted to meet me after they had arrived and settled down.

Part 4:
Now ill get to he part of this as to why i started the post. One day after being together for about 5 weeks in the U.S., she decides to become an HHA or home care attendant. She went to school for it, graduated and started working. But this income was not enough for her as the pay was small. She was not satisfied with our combined earnings. So one day she sat me down and told me one of her elderly clients told her she could make more money as a dancer and that she knew a club that hired russian ukranian women, and that she herself did it until she found other suitable work. She asked me if she could do this. Of course i told her no and what would her children, mother and brother think of this? So that week she agreed it would be a stupid thing to do. But after that week, her son told me she went out dressed up late at night while i was at work. When i talked to her about it she replied that she did indeed go and find out what it was like at the club and decided that she'd like to do it and that she would even if i disagreed. Keep in mind she's 36 with 2 children at home. So i agreed thinking that in time she would see the error in her way of thinking.   One day while we were on her computor, I found out through some photos that she had, that she also had an ongoing relationship via email and skype with 2 older men, both whom live in canada and are 60 years of age. One man gave her emotional, financial support and advice about "life" when she felt she needed it she stated. he thought it was ok and normal for her to be a dancer. In return for this she would send him videos of her dancing with clothes on and winking and blowing kisses to the camera. This man had sent her 1000.00 dollars in the past she told me later. He also knew about me but did not see it as a problem. The other man, whom she had started an email relationship recently she described as a friend. When pressing her on this she said its ok and not unusual for women to have men friends. and that i need not worry as she was with and loved me, and thats whats important.

[vendelo]

I am really sorry to read your story...

[thought4mass]

My name is John and i currently live in "little Russia" or i should say Brighton Beach Brooklyn, NY. I'm writing this to talk about my 2 1/2 year relationship with a Ukrainian/Lithuanian lady. My story might be similar to some and may serve as advice for others. And as you read this you may see the red flags i should have seen early in the relationship. 2 years ago i met a lady on line via facebook. we started by chatting via skype 2 or 3 times a week for 1 hour or so. When i first met her she told me her age was 26. I am 50. She told me she was married before and got divorced 3 years ago. She talked of husband hitting her and jealous and so on. She talked of her interest in yoga. She has been practicing it for 4 years, her beliefs are spiritual. So she does not practice in a faith. It took 2 weeks before she told me her real age "36" and that she had 2 children 11 and 14 years old. She said she did not want to tell her real age and about her children. I was reluctant to have a relationship with a woman with 2 children. Especially them being of that age. But i continued chatting and getting to know her. Finally we talked of meeting. It involved me going to Lithuania as she lived there, moving from Kiev when she married her husband. Ill continue the rest of this soon. Promise. Take care, John I've attached a photo so you can get an idea of her and i in happier times.

Part 2
She did not want to tell me her real age and of her children until she got to know me better. So after chatting somemore, we decided that i would come there. The month for my visit would be January, as she wanted to meet as soon as possible. Before arriving i checked on line to rent a flat in Vilnius. I found a good one for a very nice rate and reserved it. First week of January i took a flight out of JFK in New York bound for London. From there i took a flight to Vilnius. She had prepared for my visit by taking time off from her work. She worked as an administrator for the Lithuanian Transportanion secretary. She also made sure her children stayed with her ex-husband whom also lived in Vilnius. She made sure to go by the flat to ensure it was indeed like the photos i saw, and that she would like to stay there. She found all to be OK. I should point out some things at this time. I did chat with her children via Skype once or twice prior to my visit. She is able to speak English very well, but has a confidence problem believing she can speak it. I did mail her and her children small gifts from time to time and she mailed me a handmade scarf, personalized t shirt and assorted art work as she likes to draw. 

Part 3

So, I arrived in Vilnius about noon time. It was of course snowing and very cold. i came out of the arrival gate and was pleasantly surprised by the woman whom was waiting for me. She was attractive and way better in person than on skype! we smiled and hugged and kissed hello. The scent of her hair was nice and she was dressed in a business suit, as it was the last day of her work before her vacation to spend time with me. We took a taxi to the flat. There i met the landloard whom showed us around the flat. It had a flat screen tv, fully equiped kitchen and very nice sized bathroom. Wifi was also available in the flat. After showing us around the landloard left. We decided to go grocery shopping and went out to the mall to do this and just look around some. It had stopped snowing by then and people were about shopping and such. After shopping we came back to the flat and began talking. She told me about how her mother lives in Coney Island and had pettiononed her and her children to come to the U.S. It had been about 9 years waiting and she said her mother informed her that this pettion would be approved. ( In June of last year it was). We talked of past relationships and of her children. We cooked and watched movies and just became really comforatable with each other. BY the end of my visit we seemed to get along well and had no major difficulties. i met her children 3 days before i left. I asked them what did they think of their mother's and i relationship. The son said he didnt know and her daughter said she only wished for her mother to be happy. all seemd well. By June her mother had made arrangements for her to arrive in the U.S. Before this she had told her mother about us to which she wanted to meet me after they had arrived and settled down.

Part 4:
Now ill get to he part of this as to why i started the post. One day after being together for about 5 weeks in the U.S., she decides to become an HHA or home care attendant. She went to school for it, graduated and started working. But this income was not enough for her as the pay was small. She was not satisfied with our combined earnings. So one day she sat me down and told me one of her elderly clients told her she could make more money as a dancer and that she knew a club that hired russian ukranian women, and that she herself did it until she found other suitable work. She asked me if she could do this. Of course i told her no and what would her children, mother and brother think of this? So that week she agreed it would be a stupid thing to do. But after that week, her son told me she went out dressed up late at night while i was at work. When i talked to her about it she replied that she did indeed go and find out what it was like at the club and decided that she'd like to do it and that she would even if i disagreed. Keep in mind she's 36 with 2 children at home. So i agreed thinking that in time she would see the error in her way of thinking.   One day while we were on her computor, I found out through some photos that she had, that she also had an ongoing relationship via email and skype with 2 older men, both whom live in canada and are 60 years of age. One man gave her emotional, financial support and advice about "life" when she felt she needed it she stated. he thought it was ok and normal for her to be a dancer. In return for this she would send him videos of her dancing with clothes on and winking and blowing kisses to the camera. This man had sent her 1000.00 dollars in the past she told me later. He also knew about me but did not see it as a problem. The other man, whom she had started an email relationship recently she described as a friend. When pressing her on this she said its ok and not unusual for women to have men friends. and that i need not worry as she was with and loved me, and thats whats important.

Part 5
But our relationship did not survive and now i realized i never had a chance because of these factors:
She had the friendship, love and support of 2 60 year old men whom she never met in person but she valued greatly one's opinion, advice and quick help financially, and the others compliments on a daily basis of her beauty and such. I learned she in fact only needed me for the physical part of having a man and perhaps to help her in her first few months being here in the U.S. The longer she lived in the U.S. the more she tried to drive a wedge between me and her children. I tried very hard to get along and know them. And it was working until she decided my "time" with her in her life was up. Then she started bad mouthing me to her children, having conversations in front of them that should not have had. " In the first few months of our relationship this was very important that she made us abide by: not to have bad conversations in front of her children. Every thing i did or tried to do was and advice i gave was compared to the "old men's" advice she got before asking me. So in effect mine was worthless to her. Gifts i gave her for christmas and new years were treated as annoying if you can believe it. i could go on but i think by now whomever is reading this surely gets the picture. I was blinded by my love for her and was recieving none in return. Some strange signs i did not think about in the begining: She never ever carried any kind of photo of us together in her purse or wallet or had any on her desk or around the apartment. We took many photos and she used photo shop a lot on them though. She never let me call her any pet or loving names. Only Olga was how she wanted me to call her, anything else i called her, she would claim i did not like her name. Her children never wanted to go anywhere unless we or i were buying them something or would give them money. They pretty much stayed on their laptops all the time. I did many things and tried many things to fit into this family. But looking back on it the odds were stacked against me. So i think women are women and men are men.. Not all women are bad or mean to be bad, and ill let whomever reads this be the judge on what you think of this one. Just life happens and you learn from it and go on:) Ill answer any questions if any are put here.

[AvHdB]

Hi John,

Thanks for sharing. I have this foreboding sense that this story is going to go South in a big way. I admire your courage and hope we will hear your side to the end.

Kindly, AvHdB

As a note you can just write a new part of the puzzle with out quoting the old bits.

[welder]

Thought4mass,

It is refreshing to read that a guy is learning from his experience and moving on without being hyper critical of his other half.  Sorry to read it didn't work out this time around.

Did you discuss finances before she arrived?  Did she understand what would be left from your income after paying bills?  Did she express why she felt the family income was too low? By that I mean did she have some expectations that you as a couple hadn't previously considered.  Do you feel she wanted the higher income in anticipation of your break up?

[thought4mass]

We chatted many times over the months prior to her arriving. I was brutally honest about whom i am what im worth and such. I explained to her they might not accept her educational certs at first and that it would be awhile but with patience and my help she would make it. She said money is not important, she just wanted to get here and help me to help us have a family. Once arriving she was dissapointed that her education was not immediately recognized in this country. She worked as an HHA but the income was about 8.50 an hour and she felt it was not enough. Which it wasn't but i feel you have to start somewhere and i knew she had the ability. i believed in her and tried to show her outlets and things she could do to make the money she wished to make. i encouraged her to get more HHA certs not just the one so she could make more money, but she was not up to this. She has a batchelor deegree for law in her country. Also i was hindered by the relationship she had with one of the old men whom she totally trusted and followed all his advice blindly through our whole time together. Again she claimed they never met only have email and skype chat communication. Counting my advice and words as nonsense. Now i feel as if i failed and i hate this feeling. Worse yet, the last 3 months i developed a good communication with her children. But she noticed this and anticipating that she would break up with me stated bad mouthing, insulting and talking negative about me in fron of them or when i was not around. In time turning them against me also. As they wanted her to be happy and if she was not, all they could see was i was the cause of it. In the end she wanted to break up. She did not even wish me to live in new york as " She did not want to see me on the street passing by". We both live in Brooklyn. Now she continues to dance. She told me in the end, she likes how it makes her feel and the attention men give her. How they treat her and such. And she claims the money she makes gives her so much financial freedom and stability that she feels i could not give. Her children do not know what she does. Nor do her mother or brother whom also live here in new york. She made me promise earlier never to tell them. She only does it 3 nights a week but i admit she does make so much money doiing this. Again of course i dont agree with it. And she is real proud of herself that she can support herself and her children this way without help from me. Again i am surprised at all of this as i though ther being 36 years of age and with 2 children 11 and 14 i would not go thru this type of well, i dont really even know what to call it;( John

[vendelo]

John,

Who initiated the contact on Facebook?

[Chris]

John, any chance you could insert a few paragraphs where they are meant to be, bloody hard read mate otherwise

[welder]

Thanks for the reply thought4mass.  You obviously cared for this woman and her children.  Stick around and post some more.  Take some time to heal those fresh wounds.

[thought4mass]

We chatted many times over the months prior to her arriving. I was brutally honest about whom i am what im worth and such. I explained to her they might not accept her educational certs at first and that it would be awhile but with patience and my help she would make it. She said money is not important, she just wanted to get here and help me to help us have a family. Once arriving she was dissapointed that her education was not immediately recognized in this country. She worked as an HHA but the income was about 8.50 an hour and she felt it was not enough. Which it wasn't but i feel you have to start somewhere and i knew she had the ability. I believed in her and tried to show her outlets and things she could do to make the money she wished to make. i encouraged her to get more HHA certs not just the one so she could make more money, but she was not up to this. She has a batchelor deegree for law in her country. Also i was hindered by the relationship she had with one of the old men whom she totally trusted and followed all his advice blindly through our whole time together.

Again she claimed they never met only have email and skype chat communication. Counting my advice and words as nonsense. Now i feel as if i failed and i hate this feeling. Worse yet, the last 3 months i developed a good communication with her children. But she noticed this and anticipating that she would break up with me stated bad mouthing, insulting and talking negative about me in fron of them or when i was not around. In time turning them against me also. As they wanted her to be happy and if she was not, all they could see was i was the cause of it. In the end she wanted to break up. She did not even wish me to live in new york as " She did not want to see me on the street passing by". We both live in Brooklyn. Now she continues to dance. She told me in the end, she likes how it makes her feel and the attention men give her. How they treat her and such.

She claims the money she makes gives her so much financial freedom and stability that she feels i could not give. Her children do not know what she does. Nor do her mother or brother whom also live here in new york. She made me promise earlier never to tell them. She only does it 3 nights a week but i admit she does make so much money doiing this. Again of course i dont agree with it. And she is real proud of herself that she can support herself and her children this way without help from me. Again i am surprised at all of this as i though ther being 36 years of age and with 2 children 11 and 14 i would not go thru this type of well, i dont really even know what to call it;( John

[thought4mass]

To all whom read my experience, I'm really new here and trying to get the hang of the site. Also once i start going about what i went through i tend to just write and write..It just flows and i dont notice how long it has become. Sorry for any inconvience. As far as first contact goes, she wished me to add her as a friend and made a request after seeing my page and what i had on it at the time about travel and such. I've been to Italy, germany, England and France and wrote i wanted to travel to some countries of the FSU. And thats how it started. John

Some of the things i learned about her and her experiences the first 2 months here in the U.S.:

She always referred to herself as a beautiful woman whom should be treasured and valued. I agreed of course!;) She did not like me to wear any kind of scented deoderant or cologne.  Her mother left her in the Ukraine at the age of 9 choosing to immigrate to the U.S. and taking her son, (my ex girlfriends step brother) with her. Thus her and her mother have a very strained relationship. Her mother thought the 3 of them should be practically kissing her feet that she petitioned for them to come to the states and felt they never showed any gratitude. Her step brother saw it as a big hinderance and problem that the 3 of them were in the states and wanted no part of being responsible for them in any way shape or form. Even though they had grade transcripts, hospital and immunization records and her degrees all translated, this proved to be of no help at all. And was very dissapointing for them.

She wanted to experience getting health insurance for her and the children on her own without my help. She was surprised at the lack of enthusiasum of the american office worker. They never checked the forms and could not answer questions about the insurance. Thus it took 3 trips to the office before everything was correct. Her first ride on a new york city bus resulted in her seeing a vicious fight between to black female teens in the seats in front of her, which spilled onto the street. No one not even the driver tried to break it up or call the police. This left a big negative lasting impression on her to this day. Her daughter was very excited to start school here. But it took 3 weeks to get her registered then both children even with my help, and they had to take placement tests. Again gloom and doom dissapointment for them. To which the daughter could not understand why it took so long to get things done. Keep in mind her daughter is 15 and son 11 years old.  She was very happy that we were near brighton beach as anything and everything she ever had eaten, used or liked in her native country she could buy here, and all the help in the various stores of course spoke russian. Her children ALWAYS came first! Their wants and needs we tried to keep up with. She rarely bought anything for herself and to this day has not bought any new clothes for herself, except for the dance costumes. I admired her for this. Ill end it here for now. Again questions are welcomed. John

[vendelo]

John,

It's my understanding that she initiated contact by sending you a friend request on FB. Have you looked at her FB friends list to see if:

1. She has other male friends in your area?
2. She friended other American men at the same time period she friended you?
3. The two older men are FB friends?

....I can't imagine what its like to be a mother with 2 kids in a foreign country with no earning power.

[missAmeno]

Thought4mass, welcome to the forum and thank you for sharring your story 

1. She has other male friends in your area?
2. She friended other American men at the same time period she friended you?
3. The two older men are FB friends?

Vendelo, I dont think analyzing FB page or FB friends list solves anything or gives any insights here.

The most important factor here is this:

So one day she sat me down and told me one of her elderly clients told her she could make more money as a dancer and that she knew a club that hired russian ukranian women, and that she herself did it until she found other suitable work.

The girls who been there once will go back there when they feel shortage of money.

....I can't imagine what its like to be a mother with 2 kids in a foreign country with no earning power.

  ... been there few times, all sorts can come to mind, nevertheless options as dancer in a club (or other jobs in that direction) will be far from being on the top list. I understand women that unable to provide basics to her kids such as home and food considering/doing such jobs but cant agree of justifying such jobs with kids when basics available and just seeking easier/faster ways to improve financial situation.

[Brasscasing]

John,

Welcome to the forum.

Two observations:

I'm sorry mate but you may need to come to grips with the fact your lady may have been a dancer all along. 36 year old women just don't one day decide to become exotic dancers. It takes training and an understanding of the 'industry'. My guess would be she sussed the club/contacts out herself and new enough to get herself thru the door.

From what you've described here she was leading a double life. I doubt the relationship would have lasted regardless of what you did. In otherwords you never stood a chance so second guessing what you did wrong or could have done better is not relevant and counter productive. Recover, reload and try again armed with you new found experience and knowledge (if you're so inclined and after an appropriate break to let your emotions settle).

Brass

Edit: Oh, one more thing. If this girl ever shows up on your doorstep with some story about she's seen the light or really is in love with you or some such thing? Ignore it. Be friendly but firm and make it quite clear you have no intention of becoming involved with her again.