VAWA adds "U" Visas to make it E-Z for your FSU fiancee to ditch U & stay in USA

[missAmeno]

The FACT is that I have previously asserted that she has BPD, NOT Bipolar Disorder. 

If I start to take everyone's assertion as a FACT then perhaps I should start to believe world is flat and balanced on the backs of four elephants that stand on the back of a giant turtle.

Can you differentiate between FACTS and your EMOTIONS about a particular area? 

Thats a question that you should be asking yourself.

This is a big part of why VAWA is such a mess... attempting to substitute emotions and snap judgments for actual facts. Emotionally, you seem to want to take the woman's side, based on snap judgments that the man must be evil and the woman must be pure and sweet and virtuous.

And such conclusion based on what? My comment "There are no facts, just your side of story"

If we make "passing oneself off as a a crime victim" a rewarded behavior, we will get more of it.  Just like we've gotten more of all the false DV allegations, both male and female, in pursuit of the "reward" offered by the VAWA I-360 self-petition process.

Any chance for any kind self concious and responsibility that you have been the one who brought her over to USA? Or consideration of what you did wrong?

[BC]

Phil,

I see you still insist on wagging fingers instead of seeking serenity.

It's an issue that has been nagging at you going on 6 months now.

Maybe you should discuss it with a mental health professional.

[Ade]

...
I stand by my opinion that she displays pervasive behaviors of Borderline Personality Disorder.
....
Can you at least try to get *basic* facts correct next time you attack me?

There are no facts, just your side of story ... story that happened in the summer 2011 ... and you still can not let go ...
Its NOT a fact that she has BPD, its your opinion

If your intentions was to discuss a law there was no reason to bring up your story again, link to your first thread here and on visajourney.com would have been more then ehough.

The FACT is that I have previously asserted that she has BPD, NOT Bipolar Disorder.  Whether you or anyone agrees, the fact is that I assert BPD, NOT Bipolar.  Can you understand that what I have asserted she has, is a FACT, and that saying I asserted she has bipolar is simply incorrect, and a basic misrepresentation of facts?  Also implying that I was going to attempt to personally "treat" her is a ludicrous interpretation. The FACTS show that I asked her to participate in a BPD assessment conducted by qualified professionals.

Can you differentiate between FACTS and your EMOTIONS about a particular area?  This is a big part of why VAWA is such a mess... attempting to substitute emotions and snap judgments for actual facts.  Emotionally, you seem to want to take the woman's side, based on snap judgments that the man must be evil and the woman must be pure and sweet and virtuous.
If we make "passing oneself off as a a crime victim" a rewarded behavior, we will get more of it.  Just like we've gotten more of all the false DV allegations, both male and female, in pursuit of the "reward" offered by the VAWA I-360 self-petition process.

Dude, what is clearly a fact is that you're a little bit of a nut yourself and are obviously a wee bit obsessed. Why not just log off and go get yourself some therapy with a qualified mental health professional and make everyone happy?

[Chemist]

The K-1 visa doesn't give you an option to marry or not, it's not a trial visa, you are supposed plan your marriage and marry in the time provide in the terms of the visa.

As  K-1 sponsor you have 90 days to marry your fiancee.  There IS an option.  So not really sure what you are trying to say here...
Sounds like just a criticism of me for realizing what I was dealing with, and pulling the plug. 

Phil, you need to be set straight on something.

Technically you are correct about the K1 visa.  You don't have to marry her.  But, the visa wasn't designed for that purpose.  It's a Petition for Alien fiance.  It's somebody you intend to marry.

The fact is that you got involved in a situation that you had no knowledge of and you rapidlly found yourself in over your head.  You barely qualified to sponsor anybody considering that you let more than a year go by between visits.  But you sponsored her anyways and the authorities approved it.  What's bugging some people is that you haven't taken ownership of your role in this situation.  I see no evidence of introspection in your posts.

Clearly you have no idea what BPD is, and how it affects intimate relationships, just like I had no idea when this mess started...  You might read this:
http://bpd.about.com/od/understandingbpd/a/whatisbpd.htm
Also read Shakespear's story in Train Wreck area.

You're missing the point.  You aren't the first person that was in a relationship that ended badly and you won't be the last.  Everybody accuses the other of being crazy and nobody here sees your situation any differently.  Drama is the domain of women.  A man should simply desire peace.  Why you aren't doing everything possible to facilitate her departure from your life is beyond me.

Even if you are correct and she really has a psychological disorder, the fact remains that you still chose her, made plans to marry her and sponsor her immigration to the USA.  I would be disturbed that I was such a poor judge of character if I was in your shoes.

Do we want more of this type of person in the USA? 

In fact, no.  Depending on the circumstances she would become a public charge of the USA and as an American tax payer I would object to that.

I'd rather you be financially liable for her until she gets back on her feet.  At least if there was any sense of fairness and justice in this world.

Should false claims of DV jump to the front of the line, ahead of the honest people?

You sponsored her, phil.  YOU.  You made that decision for her when you sponsored her and didn't marry her. 

What did you expect?  That if things didn't work out you get to ship her back to the FSU?  That would be an abuse of your sponsorship in my opinion and legally, it could qualify as emotional duress.


If I were you, I would be happy to finally have her out of your life.  It could have ended much worse for you.

[andrewfi]

While some folks upthread have made some sensible points about Phil and what happened there are several who are making assumptions that are not reasonable - particularly in this regard:

BPD is a difficult malady to identify, it is difficult for trained professionals. It is most unlikely that Phil would have had any way to know she was ill before she was with him for an extended period. This is made more complex by the following: BPD has been defined by some authorities as an inappropriate response to stress factors. From my experience I can see exactly what they mean. BPD indisputably is a stress related illness.

Thing is, that until the woman arrived in the US she was likely not under great stress, she had a functioning life, one that she had designed, almost certainly subconsciously, to suit her needs. Uprooting to a new country is a very stressful thing to do and may well have triggered behaviours that had not been noted previously.

Moving past such episodes in one's life is hard, particularly when the breakup does not come from a position of hate or dislike. Antipathy enables closure. I'd be willing bet bet large amount of imaginary money that Phil has an almost constant stream of thoughts along the lines of 'if only she were not ill I'd have her back'. Try getting closure from a relationship where there is no anitpathy, indeed probably the opposite, it is not easy!Getting help in dealing with these issues - possibly helpful.

[2tallbill]

While some folks upthread have made some sensible points about Phil and what happened there are several who are making assumptions that are not reasonable - particularly in this regard:

BPD is a difficult malady to identify, it is difficult for trained professionals. It is most unlikely that Phil would have had any way to know she was ill before she was with him for an extended period. This is made more complex by the following: BPD has been defined by some authorities as an inappropriate response to stress factors. From my experience I can see exactly what they mean. BPD indisputably is a stress related illness.

Andrew, the problem with Phil here is that he takes no ownership of his own ineptitude.

He ignored every red flag and sponsored a woman that he clearly didn't know figuring
the red flags (which were abundant) would resolve themselves. Now he wants us to see
him as a victim.

If he would have prefaced this whole thing in the beginning or someplace along the line
by saying,

"Hi, my name is Phil, I am telling my story so others can avoid the mistakes I made.
I married a woman I didn't know and ignored all the red flags along the way."  But
he didn't do any of that, this is not of it's his fault. He has no blame in this, he is
totally innocent.

Ok, I will say it as tenderly as possible..............

Poor Phil, I am sorry that these bad things happened to you.
Now move on and quit being a such a sniveling JACKASS !!!

[Chemist]

BPD is a difficult malady to identify, it is difficult for trained professionals. It is most unlikely that Phil would have had any way to know she was ill before she was with him for an extended period. This is made more complex by the following: BPD has been defined by some authorities as an inappropriate response to stress factors. From my experience I can see exactly what they mean. BPD indisputably is a stress related illness.

Phil's feelings have been hurt in a bad break-up.  That's all the digression into his exfiance's state of mind  is about, really.  How many times have we heard that someone else was crazy when discussing a breakup?  It's hyperbole.

To our knowledge, she hasn't been evaluated by a professional. So any accusations from Phil about her state of mind is handwaving.

Thing is, that until the woman arrived in the US she was likely not under great stress, she had a functioning life, one that she had designed, almost certainly subconsciously, to suit her needs. Uprooting to a new country is a very stressful thing to do and may well have triggered behaviours that had not been noted previously.

I'll agree with you on this point.  But even normal people might not respond very well to this type of stress.

That's why several frequent visits would be necessary to get to know a person well enough to see how she might handle herself.  Phil did not do this.

Moving past such episodes in one's life is hard, particularly when the breakup does not come from a position of hate or dislike. Antipathy enables closure. I'd be willing bet bet large amount of imaginary money that Phil has an almost constant stream of thoughts along the lines of 'if only she were not ill I'd have her back'. Try getting closure from a relationship where there is no anitpathy, indeed probably the opposite, it is not easy!Getting help in dealing with these issues - possibly helpful.

I don't think it's antipathy.  Phil seems genuinely angry that his ex is allowed to stay in the country despite the fact that they didn't marry.  He is trying to cast her in a dispicable light so that he would be justified into trying to punish her by sending her back to the FSU. 

I'm not buying it.

[missAmeno]

Moving past such episodes in one's life is hard, particularly when the breakup does not come from a position of hate or dislike. Antipathy enables closure. I'd be willing bet bet large amount of imaginary money that Phil has an almost constant stream of thoughts along the lines of 'if only she were not ill I'd have her back'. Try getting closure from a relationship where there is no anitpathy, indeed probably the opposite, it is not easy!Getting help in dealing with these issues - possibly helpful.

The most disturbing for me is that OP status is engaged when he still didnot find closure to previous relationship or even attempted to understand what when wrong in it. Self pity isnt the best baggage to carry.

[Philnatseaman]

Wow.  The outrageous assumptions and crap people invent.
This woman is a criminal.
Expanding VAWA and U visas to make our immigration system system encourage criminal behavior (false allegations) is the point here.
My ex-fiancee is the poster child for what we'll get.
Nobody seems to notice or care that she tried to kill me and her child with the steering-wheel-grab-and-yank at 60mph.  So many of you can't make excuses for her fast enough.
Attempting to extend VAWA in this way is simply another attack on males by the same people that made family court such a male-friendly (NOT!!) place.
I could share a lot more that I've found out about this woman since I had her removed.  She and her daughter told (the man I refer to as) Scout, the man who took her in, a lot of very dark stuff about her past.  Maybe I'll do that in another thread.
Her daughter wants nothing more than to run way.
I'm just glad I came to my senses and halted the train-wreck-in-progress a lot sooner than some other poor bastards did.  It feels much better to tell the story from a position of not having the train go all the way off the tracks, and not having my life turned into total hamburger the way this kind of woman has done to other people. (Read Shakespear's train wreck story.  I should post my friend Bryan's train wreck story here too. His story saved me from making the same mistake...)

MEN, if we don't speak up about things like VAWA and the horror of false allegations, and insist on reasonably scrutiny, we are going to continue to get more of this.  It's about stopping the expansion of the DV-Industrial Complex that is based on phony science and lies, and fosters millions of false allegations every year, mostly by women who are coached to take cynical advantage of rules and processes that are incredibly biased against men.  All in the name of "protecting women and children". 
In this case, the false allegations were RAPE.  I believe that false allegations need to be criminalized to a similar extent that the false charge is, e.g., if the penalty is 5 years in prison for the charge, the penalty should be 5 years in prison for a false allegation.

For what it's worth, her life in her country was CRAP. She was not employed, not happy, no real friends (having alienated them over the years as a result of her BPD behaviors) and coming here was an escape.  So many of you are ready to invent your own facts and idealize her.  This woman is a con artist and criminal and not deserving of the pedestal some of you want to put her on without knowing a thing about her.   She has been thrown out of the next two houses of people who took her in after me, as a result of her behavior.  These were people who initially took her side and thought I was a monster, and later came back to me and apologized and told me horror stories about her.  Now they get it.  She is not an "innocent victim", she is a foiled con artist, who is always trying to run a different scam on a different set of people.  And by rewarding this in laws like VAWA, and expanding the highly questionable U visa program, we are guaranteed to get more.

[Philnatseaman]

The FACT is that I have previously asserted that she has BPD, NOT Bipolar Disorder. 

If I start to take everyone's assertion as a FACT then perhaps I should start to believe world is flat and balanced on the backs of four elephants that stand on the back of a giant turtle.

Can you differentiate between FACTS and your EMOTIONS about a particular area? 

Thats a question that you should be asking yourself.

Can you seriously not separate the FACT of what my assertion was about (that she has BPD) from the separate question of whether or not she actually has it?  The first is a clearly observable fact, and the second, whether or not she has BPD, is not currently able to be either 100% proven or disproven.

If you and others (2TallBill) are going to *invent* your own facts about what I supposedly said or did, I ask you to at least pay close enough attention to use ACCURATE facts about readily discernable things.
I NEVER said she was Bipolar, and my only assertion involved that she has BPD.  She displays pervasive BPD behaviors, and acts in ways that are 100% consistent with BPD, therefore in all probability there is a very good chance she has this.

Wow, I had no idea the world is flat and balanced on the backs of four elephants.  Are you really sure about this? Thats not what they taught us in school.  I guess if you say so... that's about as plausible as some of the stuff people have made up about me.

And thanks for pointing out my status was still showing "engaged".  I have corrected that, as it is clearly not the case any longer.

[Philnatseaman]

While some folks upthread have made some sensible points about Phil and what happened there are several who are making assumptions that are not reasonable - particularly in this regard:

BPD is a difficult malady to identify, it is difficult for trained professionals. It is most unlikely that Phil would have had any way to know she was ill before she was with him for an extended period. This is made more complex by the following: BPD has been defined by some authorities as an inappropriate response to stress factors. From my experience I can see exactly what they mean. BPD indisputably is a stress related illness.

Andrew, the problem with Phil here is that he takes no ownership of his own ineptitude.

He ignored every red flag and sponsored a woman that he clearly didn't know figuring
the red flags (which were abundant) would resolve themselves. Now he wants us to see
him as a victim.

If he would have prefaced this whole thing in the beginning or someplace along the line
by saying,

"Hi, my name is Phil, I am telling my story so others can avoid the mistakes I made.
I married a woman I didn't know and ignored all the red flags along the way."  But
he didn't do any of that, this is not of it's his fault. He has no blame in this, he is
totally innocent.

Ok, I will say it as tenderly as possible..............

Poor Phil, I am sorry that these bad things happened to you.
Now move on and quit being a such a sniveling JACKASS !!!

A very nice ad hominem attack, Mr. Bill.  Is that how you are, if you can't make a point with reason and facts, you try to distract with name-calling?

[Chemist]

Phil,
We've all heard of how the laws can be abused in regards to immigration.  It's been discussed many times in this forum.

This simply means that we need to be more responsible and exercise better judgement in regards to who we sponsor as a fiance and wife.  The only way to do this is by frequent, regular visits with your lady to get all the information possible.

Not only did you NOT do this, but you ignored warning signs when they presented themselves.

The government has figured that allowing immigrants to self-petition for residency and be on the public charge instead of them enduring abusive relationships and treated like chattle for a few years is the lesser of two evils.  So the law isn't likely to change.  There's a broad range of legal precedent that extends protections to people considered to be vulnerable populations.

Basically, unless she committed a felony, she can stay in this country if she wants to.  If you attempt to prevent that, she can make life miserable for you.

My question is:  "How dumb are you going to be?"

[2tallbill]

If you and others (2TallBill) are going to *invent* your own facts about what I supposedly said or did, I ask you to at least pay close enough attention to use ACCURATE facts about readily discernable things.
I NEVER said she was Bipolar, and my only assertion involved that she has BPD.  She displays pervasive BPD behaviors, and acts in ways that are 100% consistent with BPD, therefore in all probability there is a very good chance she has this.

I invented facts? let's review what I said.
Quote "he has no medical training but is able to diagnose her as bipolar
(if I remember the diagnosis correctly)" UnQuote

I admit that my memory was wrong, but I didn't invent anything so in my 
case of memory of the medical diagnosis you are right and I am wrong.

Now you need to admit that you became engaged to a woman you didn't know well
enough and that you ignored red flags

[2tallbill]

A very nice ad hominem attack, Mr. Bill.  Is that how you are, if you can't make a point with reason and facts, you try to distract with name-calling?

You ignored everything I said except the sniveling jackass part.

[BC]

Wow.  The outrageous assumptions and crap people invent.
This woman is a criminal.
Expanding VAWA and U visas to make our immigration system system encourage criminal behavior (false allegations) is the point here.
My ex-fiancee is the poster child for what we'll get.
Nobody seems to notice or care that she tried to kill me and her child with the steering-wheel-grab-and-yank at 60mph.  So many of you can't make excuses for her fast enough.
Attempting to extend VAWA in this way is simply another attack on males by the same people that made family court such a male-friendly (NOT!!) place.
I could share a lot more that I've found out about this woman since I had her removed.  She and her daughter told (the man I refer to as) Scout, the man who took her in, a lot of very dark stuff about her past.  Maybe I'll do that in another thread.
Her daughter wants nothing more than to run way.
I'm just glad I came to my senses and halted the train-wreck-in-progress a lot sooner than some other poor bastards did.  It feels much better to tell the story from a position of not having the train go all the way off the tracks, and not having my life turned into total hamburger the way this kind of woman has done to other people. (Read Shakespear's train wreck story.  I should post my friend Bryan's train wreck story here too. His story saved me from making the same mistake...)

MEN, if we don't speak up about things like VAWA and the horror of false allegations, and insist on reasonably scrutiny, we are going to continue to get more of this. It's about stopping the expansion of the DV-Industrial Complex that is based on phony science and lies, and fosters millions of false allegations every year, mostly by women who are coached to take cynical advantage of rules and processes that are incredibly biased against men.  All in the name of "protecting women and children". 
In this case, the false allegations were RAPE.  I believe that false allegations need to be criminalized to a similar extent that the false charge is, e.g., if the penalty is 5 years in prison for the charge, the penalty should be 5 years in prison for a false allegation.

For what it's worth, her life in her country was CRAP. She was not employed, not happy, no real friends (having alienated them over the years as a result of her BPD behaviors) and coming here was an escape.  So many of you are ready to invent your own facts and idealize her.  This woman is a con artist and criminal and not deserving of the pedestal some of you want to put her on without knowing a thing about her.   She has been thrown out of the next two houses of people who took her in after me, as a result of her behavior.  These were people who initially took her side and thought I was a monster, and later came back to me and apologized and told me horror stories about her.  Now they get it.  She is not an "innocent victim", she is a foiled con artist, who is always trying to run a different scam on a different set of people.  And by rewarding this in laws like VAWA, and expanding the highly questionable U visa program, we are guaranteed to get more.

Stick to the bold parts.

This woman is a criminal.
If she is a criminal or not is a point the courts will decide.  Did you file a complaint?

Nobody seems to notice or care
I think Maxx has a forum that might commiserate with you.

MEN, if we don't speak up about things like VAWA and the horror of false allegations, and insist on reasonably scrutiny, we are going to continue to get more of this.
Prevention is the best cure.  IMHO IMBRA (based on VAWA) should be a 'heads up' for all parties involved.  I think they should expand it to include mandatory counseling and psychological evaluations for both parties.

For what it's worth, her life in her country was CRAP.
Oh... so she should be happy with any knight in shining armor that comes trotting by?

Really Phil, I could go on and on.... but bottom line is that you chose to sponsor this woman.  Be happy things turned out as they did and don't blame the US Government for your choice.  They are not responsible for scammers or bad choices and have given the benefit of doubt both to you and your ex fiancee.

Learn to live with it.