Australian visa issues

[mexican]

Hi mexican,

As i said before the Fiance Visa is the same process as the spouse visa you have to prove that your relationship is genuine and ongoing, that you have a shared life together, emotionally, finacially and that you both contiribute to that shared life together.
Fiance visa means that you both are totally commited to marry. They will ask her about your mother and father, brothers and sisters, how old they are where they work, do they have children, there names, birthdays etc, they will ask her about your house, your job, your finacial position how you contribute to a share life together whether you were married before and if you were what was your old wifes name and do you still have contact with her.
If you do not do this right you will end up in Migration Review Tribunal where you and your fiance will have to prove all the above i know as i have been there and it is heartbreaking to have to go through this process as it adds another two years ontop of the normal waiting times.

A fiancee visa for a russian girl usually means she has never lived with her Australian male correct? Nor has she ever met my parents or my sisters. Nor has she ever seen my house or seen where I currently live. Now my sister and parents will not be very enthusiastic about me bringing over a girl from Russia and intending to marry her. WHY because they have never met her for starters. To tell them this is the way I am doing it and I want your full support is really asking a dodgy car salesman for a bargain. IN fact I dont want them to be involved until such time as she has arrived in the country . After a few months they might warm to the idea. Anyway why do I need parents support for this as it really has nothing to do with them.


I can plug my girl with facts  if that what it takes.
I dont like the idea of bringing someone over for 6 month to a year as a tourist and just see how it all goes. That isnt a relationship but an arrangement IMHO. If you are serious about trying to have some real relationship then make it real.
If you want a mail order bride then order a tourist from Thailand.

[bobjf]

g/day mexican
a fiance visa is just that,it doesn't matter what happened in the past or if she has met any of your family or friends.
my wife was asked about her parents & my parents thoughts at her interview,she stated straight out i am marrying the man i want to spend my life with,what they think is there business but means nothing in regards to my intentsions,i marry him not them.
mate i told my parents & Friends it was my choice & they could like it or lump it.
 decisions like marrying have to be about you & the lady & not what others feel or want from you or her end of story.
inform them you can either accept my choice or mind your own business, after all it is your life not theres.
mark ( schastlivy) is correct in what he is telling you & like mark i had to contend with mrt as did w/o it is not an experience you want believe us,oz immigration can be the absolute pits so rather than get your back up,try picking the minds of those who have already done it .
mark or i will be the last blokes to tell your doing the wrong thing,both of us believe there is no right or wrong way to secede in this journey,we & i suspect a lot of the silent majority here proved you can beat the odds,relationships never run on stats',only the couple in question can make the deal  work
as mark says she will need to know  about you & yours,your work/friends etc or your going to get to find out all about MRT if your  totally  serious about going forward & forming a family unit.

[Wild Orchid]

A fiancee visa for a russian girl usually means she has never lived with her Australian male correct? Nor has she ever met my parents or my sisters. Nor has she ever seen my house or seen where I currently live. Now my sister and parents will not be very enthusiastic about me bringing over a girl from Russia and intending to marry her. WHY because they have never met her for starters. To tell them this is the way I am doing it and I want your full support is really asking a dodgy car salesman for a bargain. IN fact I dont want them to be involved until such time as she has arrived in the country . After a few months they might warm to the idea. Anyway why do I need parents support for this as it really has nothing to do with them.


I can plug my girl with facts  if that what it takes.
I dont like the idea of bringing someone over for 6 month to a year as a tourist and just see how it all goes. That isnt a relationship but an arrangement IMHO. If you are serious about trying to have some real relationship then make it real.
If you want a mail order bride then order a tourist from Thailand.

As I said, it is issues of you and your family.  I know one girl who want to apply for her fiancée visa. She already met her boyfriend's parents and sister.  He took her specifically on one trip juts to meet them, they don't live in Australia. Then she came here on 3 months tourist visa and lived with him.  And I have to say that is exactly what majority of people do if they can. You DON'T want to. You want your girlfriend to come here and be able to work straight away. So why do you bring up all this "parents won't approve"? You are 40 yo man for goodness sake!

 I've met my daughter in law 2 days before my son's wedding and I'm fine with that. All I care about is my son's happiness and he seems to be very happy at the moment


There is another option for you - go and live with her for 12 months in Russia and you'd be able to apply for de facto visa

The rules are the rules, you can follow them or not, but you definitely can't bend them to your needs

[Davydushka]

HI Mark,
Things are going reasonable. Lots of ups and downs at the moment on the marriage rollercoaster.

Regarding this quote

Hi mexican,
As i said before the Fiance Visa is the same process as the spouse visa you have to prove that your relationship is genuine and ongoing, that you have a shared life together, emotionally, finacially and that you both contiribute to that shared life together.

Disagree here. There is a lot less requirement to show the relationship is genuine. If you read the spouse visa requirements one of the requirements which they dont really seem to reinforce as stringently as they should is the living together for 12 months and having 2 people who can testify you have lived together as a couple. Doing this is extremely hard to do as not many can afford to uproot themselves overseas for 12 months. Again I stress it is loosely enforced but this is in the official requirements.

Downside is the extra cost which is around $1,300 for the fiancee visa but the upside is a lot less aggravation getting the lady to Australia and the 9 month period you have from when the visa is granted to when you have to marry which I would fully recommend anyone using most of to determine how well your lady will adjust to Australian life.

 

[Schastlivyj]

With the Fiance Visa you need to prove all of this


Evidence thatyour relationship is genuine

When you apply for a Spouse or Interdependency visa, you must provide evidence that
supports your claims of a genuine and continuing relationship with your partner.
Historyofyour relationship
You and your partner must each provide a statement regarding the history of your
relationship, including:
•how, when and where you first met;
•how your relationship developed;
•when you decided to marry or commence a de facto, spouse or interdependent
relationship;
•your domestic arrangements – how you support each other financially, physically and
emotionally and when this level of commitment began;
•any periods of separation – when and why the separation occurred, for how long and
how you maintained your relationship during the period of separation; and
•your future plans.
The statements written by you and your partner can be on ordinary writing paper or a
statutory declaration form may be used. Each statement or statutory declaration must
be signed and dated by the author. For details on who can witness statutory
declarations, see page 23.

Evidence ofyour relationship

There are 4 broad categories of evidence that you need to provide:
•financial aspects;
•the nature of the household;
•social context of the relationship; and
•the nature of your commitment to each other.
All relationships are different, so you should provide as much evidence as you can that
you believe will support your claims.
The lists below are only a guide and are neither all inclusive or exclusive.
You may be asked to provide additional information during processing of your
application.
Financialaspects
Evidence will be required that you and your partner share financial commitments and
responsibilities, including:
•evidence of any joint ownership of real estate or other major assets (for example, cars,
appliances) and any joint liabilities (for example, loans, insurance);
•sharing of finances;
•legal commitments that you and your partner have undertaken as a couple;
•evidence that you and your partner have operated joint bank accounts for a
reasonable period of time; or
•sharing of household bills and expenses.
The nature ofthe household
You will be asked to provide evidence that you and your partner share responsibilities
within your household, including:
•your living arrangements;
•a statement outlining the basis on which responsibility for housework is distributed;
•joint ownership or joint rental of the residence in which you live;
•joint utilities accounts (electricity, gas, telephone);
•joint responsibility for bills for day-to-day living expenses;
•joint responsibility for children; or
•correspondence addressed to both you and your partner at the same address.
Socialcontextofthe relationship
How your relationship with your partner is seen by your friends and family will be
considered including:
•evidence that you and your partner are generally accepted as a couple socially (for
example, joint invitations, going out together, friends and acquaintances in common);
•the assessment of your friends and acquaintances about the nature of your
relationship (see ‘Statutory declarations’ at page 23);
•evidence that you and your partner have declared your relationship to government
bodies, commercial/public institutions or authorities;
•statutory declarations made by your or your partner’s parents, family members,
relatives and other friends;
•joint membership of organisations or groups;
•evidence of joint participation in sporting, cultural or social activities; or
•joint travel.
Note:Providing only statutory declarations from your and your partner’s parents, family
members, relatives and other friends is not normally sufficient to evidence your
relationship.
The nature ofyour commitment to each other
Factors that could assist in evidencing mutual commitment between you and your
partner include:
•knowledge of each other’s personal circumstances (for example, background and
family situation, which could be established at interview);
•intention that your relationship will be long-term (for example, the extent to which
you have combined your affairs);
•the terms of your wills; or
correspondence and itemised phone accounts to show that contact was maintained
during any period of separation.

It is the same evidence that you need to provide as if she was your wife they look at her already being your wife not Fiance.

[Davydushka]

A fiancee visa for a russian girl usually means she has never lived with her Australian male correct? Nor has she ever met my parents or my sisters. Nor has she ever seen my house or seen where I currently live.

No, you may well have lived with her in Russia. I assume you have visited her in Russia? As for the fiancée visa she could have visited Australia on a tourist visa beforehand and met you and then applied for a fiancee visa. A fiancée visa is a visa you get if you intend to marry her. You don’t need to marry her, just have the intention to marry her. However if you do not marry on the fiancée isa at the end of the 9 month period she will have to leave Australia.

Now my sister and parents will not be very enthusiastic about me bringing over a girl from Russia and intending to marry her. WHY because they have never met her for starters.

How enthusiastic do you think they will be if you marry in Russia and try get her over here on a spouse visa. I think most people go through what you go through. Family, friends etc are all a little cautious and apprehensive. However you will find most will warm to your lady after a few meetings. My family was a little apprehensive at first but once they met my wife they really warmed to her and treated her like a daughter.

To tell them this is the way I am doing it and I want your full support is really asking a dodgy car salesman for a bargain. IN fact I dont want them to be involved until such time as she has arrived in the country .

Very bad move. Tell them now. Tell them you met someone on the internet, have been chatting regularly, went to visit her and think she could be the one for you. Tell them you plan to invite her to Australia and if things go well you might marry. If someone asks about why you had to get a fiancée visa tell them this is the process you must go through with the government, irrespective of if you marry or not. If you spring it on them with no warning you run the risk of getting a very adverse reaction. She shouldn’t be a secret. You should be proud to tell your friends and family about her.
 

After a few months they might warm to the idea. Anyway why do I need parents support for this as it really has nothing to do with them.

On the last question precisely. You are 40 years old.

[Schastlivyj]

HI Mark,
Things are going reasonable. Lots of ups and downs at the moment on the marriage rollercoaster.

Regarding this quote

Hi mexican,
As i said before the Fiance Visa is the same process as the spouse visa you have to prove that your relationship is genuine and ongoing, that you have a shared life together, emotionally, finacially and that you both contiribute to that shared life together.

Disagree here. There is a lot less requirement to show the relationship is genuine. If you read the spouse visa requirements one of the requirements which they dont really seem to reinforce as stringently as they should is the living together for 12 months and having 2 people who can testify you have lived together as a couple. Doing this is extremely hard to do as not many can afford to uproot themselves overseas for 12 months. Again I stress it is loosely enforced but this is in the official requirements.

Downside is the extra cost which is around $1,300 for the fiancee visa but the upside is a lot less aggravation getting the lady to Australia and the 9 month period you have from when the visa is granted to when you have to marry which I would fully recommend anyone using most of to determine how well your lady will adjust to Australian life.

 

Good to hear from you mate hang in there we are going through turbulent times at the moment.

When i went to MRT the living together for 12 months was brought up as well we also had to provide two statements from Nats Family that the 5 times i was in her country that we were living together as well.
The lady that did the tribunal said that the requirements for Fiance visa are the same as spouse visa which is wrong but she said they are the immigration rules at present.

[Davydushka]

With the Fiance Visa you need to prove all of this

Looks like they have tried to generalize the two together. Fiancee visa I doubt they will ever ask for joint ownership, joint bank accounts, joint utility bills etc given most do not live together as a couple to form those sort of things in a fiancée visa stage. However at spouse visa stage they do expect joint utility bills, joint bank accounts, joint rental agreements etc. They did from us.

Quite a few items in that list you would not expect from a couple applying for a fiancée visa while the same cant be said for the spouse visa where most would be expected. From my experience I had to provide a fair bit more paperwork wise for the spouse than the fiancée visa. I had to provide essentially everything I did with the fiancée and quite a few new requirements for the spouse visa.

Fiancee visa you can get away with a dozen or so photos together and the stories of how you met in yours and her words and how you believe the relationship is genuine. That’s all we essentially did plus filling out the mandatory forms. Spouse you need affidavits from friends the relationship is genuine, proof of living together, joint commitments etc. The basic requirements needed are significantly more IME.

[Wild Orchid]

With the Fiance Visa you need to prove all of this

hardly any of this, I'd say. I'm spending a lot of time on forum for RW waiting for fiancée visa, hardly any of them could provide those evidence, it is more relevant for the next visa, and it is called spouse for a reason.

Fiancée doesn't have to live with her other half, she doesn't have to have joint accounts with him, to share household responsibilities etc. That is why she is called fiancée and not a wife or de facto partner 

[Schastlivyj]

Dave & WO I know its not right but they can enforce what they like on their interpretation

All of the above criteria were applied to us at MRT and we had to prove it all. As some of you know i studied the immigration act for months and under the section Prospective marriage/Spouse visa it says that you must meet all the evidence of relationship requirements as laid out in this act then it refers to all of the above.

In the Partner migration booklet document 1127 page 28 evidence of your relationship it says refer to page 38 which is all the requirements of the spouse visa these requirements also apply to the Prospective marriage visa.

Unfortunately it is all up to the interpretation of the immigration officer handling the case but if they want to play hardball they can apply every single one of those requirements as outlined on page 38 of the Partner migration booklet i found this out the hard way.

Our case was up on the MRT website for quite awhile not sure if it is still there but MRT's reccomendations to the minister of immigration was that the requirements be changed as it is almost impossible for prospective partners to prove some of these requirements.

MRT is littered with Prospective marriage visa applications being refused from all countries due to there silly requirements in proving relationships.

[Schastlivyj]

With the Fiance Visa you need to prove all of this

Looks like they have tried to generalize the two together. Fiancee visa I doubt they will ever ask for joint ownership, joint bank accounts, joint utility bills etc given most do not live together as a couple to form those sort of things in a fiancée visa stage. However at spouse visa stage they do expect joint utility bills, joint bank accounts, joint rental agreements etc. They did from us.

Quite a few items in that list you would not expect from a couple applying for a fiancée visa while the same cant be said for the spouse visa where most would be expected. From my experience I had to provide a fair bit more paperwork wise for the spouse than the fiancée visa. I had to provide essentially everything I did with the fiancée and quite a few new requirements for the spouse visa.

Fiancee visa you can get away with a dozen or so photos together and the stories of how you met in yours and her words and how you believe the relationship is genuine. That’s all we essentially did plus filling out the mandatory forms. Spouse you need affidavits from friends the relationship is genuine, proof of living together, joint commitments etc. The basic requirements needed are significantly more IME.

Immigration are a weird bunch at MRT We were asked to prove the following (joint ownership of any Property or assetts) This was impossible to prove so i produced my last will and testament which leaves everything to Nat & Dana MRT were happy with this as this proved ownership in the advent of death.
This was asked for (any joint utility bills) This also was impossible but i had a receipts that Nat gave me showing the payment of her electricity & Gas bills translated into English they were happy with this. Living together was proved by stat decs from family and friends over there saying that each time i was in Ukraine were living together and that Nat, Dana and myself attended many family outings together there were 12 stat decs in total, 1000 photos and 12 videos were also presented to them. This was a big one MRT wanted to know about (share household responsibilities) We had a three way conversation with myself sitting at MRT with the person doing the tribunal, an interpreter and Nat on the phone in Ukraine she was asked have i ever helped her with the household duties Nat said of course, he cooks, irons and does dishes when he is here, goes shopping, he also takes our daughter to school and gets her ready each day when they are together.
One of DISA's biggest beefs with our relationship was at the interview she was asked if i am Australian and She is Ukrainian how do we communicate Nat told them in Russian of course this is where they wanted to prove that she was lying and that we were not a genuine couple. MRT got me to speak to Nat for 30 mins with an interpreter listening in recording and translating everything that was said but we proved them wrong mind you at the end of 30 mins i was starting to struggle with the language but we stuck it to them. The tribunal Judge then said thats it i have heard enough she said you both have suffered enough I am overturning Disa's decision so that Nat recieves a visa.

And remember guys this was all on a Fiance Visa not a spouse visa

[Schastlivyj]

Also guys the joint accounts thing we overcame this as i had given Nat an Australian CBA debit card that she was using in Ukraine and we produced 12 months of statements to the Tribunal showing the withdrawals everynow and again at Ukrainian Bankomats at times when i was not in Ukraine.

[bobjf]

i totaly agree with mark, most of there requirements are bs & impossible to comply with but if you strike an obnoxious interviewer you better be up to speed.
those of us who have run afoul of them know from bitter experiance  that which is impossible matters not to them.
easy for those who got any easy ride to scoff but fair warning, MRT  is just around the corner for those who slip up.
a win there is not necassarily a given either,beleive me it is an experiance you do not want to deal with ever.

[dbneeley]

Now, be careful--"mexican" may not want to hear any of that and his Mommy and Daddy may not approve of the way he is being treated!

David

[Wild Orchid]

Dave & WO I know its not right but they can enforce what they like on their interpretation

All of the above criteria were applied to us at MRT and we had to prove it all.

we had to go thorough MRT as well and because I was still in Russia we simply were not able to prove any of that and in fact nobody asked us to. Those requirements for spouses not for fiancées