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Information & Chat About the Former Soviet Union => Russian, Ukrainian & FSU Culture and Customs => Topic started by: Romantic Reg on November 13, 2017, 10:17:31 AM

Title: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Romantic Reg on November 13, 2017, 10:17:31 AM
My Russian girlfriend has been having a terrible time in Russia over the last 3 months. Her father was ill and taken into hospital where they discovered he has Parkinson's. He can only be fed through tubes in his nose, he can hardly talk, he can hardly move. They discharged him from hospital actually in a worse state than went he went in for my girlfriend to care for him is his apartment without medication or any plan for his care !!! How on earth she is supposed to do this i don't know, he needs constant attention 24 hours a day and she has hurt her back lifting him.
Is this the normal way of dealing with very ill people in Russia ? He should be in a specialist hospital or care home receiving specialist care, basically they have just dumped him as if he were garbage !!
I am absolutely amazed, i just can't believe what has been going on over there, it is a total disgrace !! I never realised just how bad things appear to be in Russia right now, worse than a third world country.
Obviously as a result of this my girlfriend is in despair, she does not what to do.
Has anyone else had a similar experience or know of any solutions?
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Steveboy on November 13, 2017, 11:26:16 AM
My Russian girlfriend has been having a terrible time in Russia over the last 3 months. Her father was ill and taken into hospital where they discovered he has Parkinson's. He can only be fed through tubes in his nose, he can hardly talk, he can hardly move. They discharged him from hospital actually in a worse state than went he went in for my girlfriend to care for him is his apartment without medication or any plan for his care !!! How on earth she is supposed to do this i don't know, he needs constant attention 24 hours a day and she has hurt her back lifting him.
Is this the normal way of dealing with very ill people in Russia ? He should be in a specialist hospital or care home receiving specialist care, basically they have just dumped him as if he were garbage !!
I am absolutely amazed, i just can't believe what has been going on over there, it is a total disgrace !! I never realised just how bad things appear to be in Russia right now, worse than a third world country.
Obviously as a result of this my girlfriend is in despair, she does not what to do.
Has anyone else had a similar experience or know of any solutions?

Does she need you to send her any $$$$$$ ?
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Steveboy on November 13, 2017, 11:29:30 AM
Lots depends on what part of the country you live... I wouldn't get to stressed over it though. The main thing to remember is it is NOT the UK...not that medical care will be much better there by the time greedy Richard has taken it over..
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Romantic Reg on November 13, 2017, 03:16:40 PM
No she does not need any money, she has a decent job here in the UK. The way they have dealt with him is an absolute shambles, they seem to have no idea of what to do with him, how to improve his situation, how on earth can you discharge someone from hospital who can only be spoon fed through tubes in his nose, can't walk or even stand up ?
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: el_guero on November 14, 2017, 11:00:31 PM
My Russian girlfriend has been having a terrible time in Russia over the last 3 months. Her father was ill and taken into hospital where they discovered he has Parkinson's. He can only be fed through tubes in his nose, he can hardly talk, he can hardly move. They discharged him from hospital actually in a worse state than went he went in for my girlfriend to care for him is his apartment without medication or any plan for his care !!! How on earth she is supposed to do this i don't know, he needs constant attention 24 hours a day and she has hurt her back lifting him.
Is this the normal way of dealing with very ill people in Russia ? He should be in a specialist hospital or care home receiving specialist care, basically they have just dumped him as if he were garbage !!
I am absolutely amazed, i just can't believe what has been going on over there, it is a total disgrace !! I never realised just how bad things appear to be in Russia right now, worse than a third world country.
Obviously as a result of this my girlfriend is in despair, she does not what to do.
Has anyone else had a similar experience or know of any solutions?

You might read up on Parkinson's a little ...

As far as FSU doctors go, they are often well trained. You have good ones and bad ones. BUT, very few have access to to 'modern' diagnostic equipment. 
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: andrewfi on November 15, 2017, 03:01:36 AM
I can understand what el Guero is saying.

Parkinsonism is a slow onset disease. It is very hard to believe that he'd only just have been diagnosed with parkinsonism AND that his condition was already so severe that he needed nasogastric feeding.

That's something that might be expected at the end of the process, a process that would have been ongoing for many years.

Given what you have shared with us, I suspect that you are the intended victim of a money scam.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Ste on November 15, 2017, 05:52:15 AM
I know someone quite badly afflicted by Parkinson’s - he’s adopted a strong Barnsley accent and keeps interviewing people...

Better get me coat...


.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Romantic Reg on November 15, 2017, 06:42:51 AM
My girlfriends father was first diagnosed about 18 months ago but we believe that since then he has not had the correct care and medication. I am fully aware of how Parkinson's can affect people differently, the initial basic symptoms are common but then there can be many other symptoms that can affect all individuals differently and the condition runs with time.

I know many people here in the UK that with the correct medication, physiotherapy, diet and monitoring live to a reasonable standard with the disease, but of course with time things can go downhill.

The simple fact of my post is that my girfriend's father has been dumped out of hospital into his apartment, he can't walk, eat or even speak properly and they expect her to care for him on her own, she is even struggling to assist him to stand and he needs constant attention for around 20 hours a day. There is no way anyone in this condition should be in this situation.

My girlfriend has taken temporary leave from her job here in the UK and gone to Russia to help him because he has no other relatives of any use. He should be in hospital or care home being looked after by professionals.

Money is not an issue in this case and there is no money scam, as i said my girlfriend has a good job here and has her own money. The only scam going on is with how the Russian health authorities have dealt with this case !!

A brief search on the internet reveals just how bad Russian healthcare is and it appears to be getting worse, i just never realised that it was already so bad.







Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: yankee on November 15, 2017, 07:01:25 AM
How old is her father?  What were his symptoms that led to the diagnosis 1.5 years ago?  They didn't offer to put him on medication at that time? 
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Romantic Reg on November 15, 2017, 09:55:58 AM
He is 78 years old. He was on medication but suddenly about 3 months ago he found that he could not eat / swallow, lost a lot of weight as a result and was taken to hospital on deaths door looking like a skeleton and that is when my girlfriend went to Russia because she thought he was going to die,

In her city they have two hospitals, he spent 3 weeks in the lower grade one where he was stabilised. then they sent him home for two weeks because there was no space in the main hospital, then he finally got into the main hospital, was there for two weeks, then sent home in a terrible state, a lot worse than when he went in ! During this time they stopped all of the medication that he had been taking.

His doctor visited him today and said he does not need any medication ? Which i find very difficult to understand.
Right now he can't move at all, he is trapped on a sofa and too heavy for my girlfriend to lift so she has had to go and buy nappies to stop him soiling ! The only word he can speak is her name, nothing else and that is with a struggle.

Maybe they have decided that he is terminal and have just give up on him ? She is now battling to get him back into hospital or maybe a care home but they seem to be very reluctant to do this.

She is in total despair. I can only imagine how she feels, her last blood relative whom she adores in this state trapped on a sofa, can't speak, can't eat, can't move, it is really beyond belief in 2017 !!
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Ste on November 15, 2017, 10:43:57 AM
Try for an Adult Dependent Relative visa for UK. Expensive and little chance of success but better than nothing.


.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Ste on November 15, 2017, 10:49:16 AM
Another thing is I found Russian health care ok, not fantastic but does the job. Suppose it varies from area to area.

At least it’s free at point of use, can you believe there are some countries where you have to pay, I saw one item in a bill for a hospital birth for $45 for transferring baby from birth hole to mother’s breast.

How backward is that?


.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Confederate on November 15, 2017, 12:30:59 PM
Another thing is I found Russian health care ok, not fantastic but does the job. Suppose it varies from area to area.

At least it’s free at point of use, can you believe there are some countries where you have to pay, I saw one item in a bill for a hospital birth for $45 for transferring baby from birth hole to mother’s breast.

How backward is that?


Sounds like the USA. Healthcare costs are insane here.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Confederate on November 15, 2017, 12:34:20 PM
He is 78 years old. He was on medication but suddenly about 3 months ago he found that he could not eat / swallow, lost a lot of weight as a result and was taken to hospital on deaths door looking like a skeleton and that is when my girlfriend went to Russia because she thought he was going to die,

In her city they have two hospitals, he spent 3 weeks in the lower grade one where he was stabilised. then they sent him home for two weeks because there was no space in the main hospital, then he finally got into the main hospital, was there for two weeks, then sent home in a terrible state, a lot worse than when he went in ! During this time they stopped all of the medication that he had been taking.

His doctor visited him today and said he does not need any medication ? Which i find very difficult to understand.
Right now he can't move at all, he is trapped on a sofa and too heavy for my girlfriend to lift so she has had to go and buy nappies to stop him soiling ! The only word he can speak is her name, nothing else and that is with a struggle.

Maybe they have decided that he is terminal and have just give up on him ? She is now battling to get him back into hospital or maybe a care home but they seem to be very reluctant to do this.

She is in total despair. I can only imagine how she feels, her last blood relative whom she adores in this state trapped on a sofa, can't speak, can't eat, can't move, it is really beyond belief in 2017 !!

I think it’s fairly obvious that these hospitals decided he was terminal. Clearly they should have informed.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: yankee on November 15, 2017, 12:57:16 PM
My wife spent 6 weeks this summer in Russia to get medical care that was just too expensive to get done in the US.  She believes the American medical system sucks. 
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: andrewfi on November 15, 2017, 02:51:47 PM
If money is not an issue then he can go into residential care, have a private nurse, or a private hospital.

But, of course, money IS an issue.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Confederate on November 15, 2017, 03:37:06 PM
If money is not an issue then he can go into residential care, have a private nurse, or a private hospital.

But, of course, money IS an issue.

Residential care is the least expensive and best choice, IMO.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Romantic Reg on November 16, 2017, 03:16:16 AM
He does not want to leave Russia, we asked him about this last year. Yes residential care is looking like the best option but not easy to arrange, hopefully will get something sorted within the next week or so.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Steveboy on November 16, 2017, 03:43:41 AM
Yes but surely if your living in the UK and so is your wife, she has a good job as you say, you would of taken some kind medical  of cover out for him?

If I lived in the UK with my wife and we had a good income I would of done it years ago especially if he was in his 70's ..

Not very considerate.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Manny on November 16, 2017, 03:00:21 PM
Yes but surely if your living in the UK and so is your wife, she has a good job as you say, you would of taken some kind medical  of cover out for him?

If I lived in the UK with my wife and we had a good income I would of done it years ago especially if he was in his 70's ..

Not very considerate.

I dont agree. My wifes folks are knocking on a bit now and they have the odd health issue as older folks do. She tips up a few bob now and again as and when if they need something as any of us would do with our parents.

We knew an old lady in Russia who needed long term care. The method seems to be they sign their flat over to the carer (often a relative, neighbour or friend of a friend) and they look after them till they drop off the twig. Of course, one must choose carefully as it can happen that the "carer" does not do much caring and wants to hasten the dropping off the twig or eviction of the old person.

This happened with the old lady we knew in Russia. Thankfully, as Olga was close to the old dear, word duly arrived at the "carer" that Olga's "rich foreign husband" tiphat who had met the old lady in question and was favourably disposed towards her, was happy to cough up for a Moscow lawyer to relieve said "carer" of the flat in question via the courts if she didn't pull her finger out and do the needful ongoing.

Said "carer" then became remarkably more diligent..........
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Romantic Reg on November 17, 2017, 03:56:21 PM
Why should we have to take out medical cover for him? He is a Russian citizen who has worked all of his life in his country, in his hour of need they should take care of him if he needs it ! I we had of taken out cover he would have received the same poor quality of care, it would have been a total waste of time and money !!
If all he needed was care at home we could sort that easily without signing apartments over to anyone and of course we would help if there is a viable solution to the current situation.
The fact is that he has ended up as he now is because of late diagnosis of his illness, been given the wrong medication for a long period and has not been monitored. From the information my girlfriend has gathered it seems the medical people that have dealt with him have little or no understanding of his condition and how he should have been treated and now they have just abandoned him.




Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Lord of the Dance on November 17, 2017, 04:15:36 PM
I'm afraid my ignorance of Russian culture is showing, but what does in-home care have to do with signing over an apartment to the caretaker? As payment? That sounds an awful lot like a scam in the making. Hospice care is covered by insurance or out-of-pocket. If no funds are available there is usually some form of assistance program to provide basic care services (here in the US anyway).   
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Manny on November 18, 2017, 06:16:11 AM
I'm afraid my ignorance of Russian culture is showing, but what does in-home care have to do with signing over an apartment to the caretaker? As payment? That sounds an awful lot like a scam in the making.   

If you are an old person with no family, and you need care and you have a flat, why not use it to pay your carer? Not ideal for the carer if you live 20 years and the flat is only worth £15k though.

In that circumstance in the UK the government swipes your house to fund your care. No difference really.

It's quite commonplace in Russia. Its often a family member but in the absence of family it can be anyone you trust.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Manny on November 18, 2017, 06:23:57 AM
Why should we have to take out medical cover for him?

Because he is now your relative. If this man is your wife's father, the problem is yours to solve if there are no sons.

He is a Russian citizen who has worked all of his life in his country, in his hour of need they should take care of him if he needs it !

Like our government takes care of all our old people faultlessly?

The Russian health system is far from perfect, but it mostly works in its own way. That way is often bribery. £200-£500 to the right person would get him into a decent government care home probably. As a citizen, your wife knows this.

However, Russia is a country where families tend solve their own problems and look after their old without expecting to lean on the government for everything. He looked after your wife for the first 20+ years of her life; now it's her turn. Which means you.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Wiz on November 18, 2017, 10:13:19 AM
Why should we have to take out medical cover for him?

Because he is now your relative. If this man is your wife's father, the problem is yours to solve if there are no sons.

Absolutely Agree.....

He is a Russian citizen who has worked all of his life in his country, in his hour of need they should take care of him if he needs it !

Like our government takes care of all our old people faultlessly?

The Russian health system is far from perfect, but it mostly works in its own way. That way is often bribery. £200-£500 to the right person would get him into a decent government care home probably. As a citizen, your wife knows this.

However, Russia is a country where families tend solve their own problems and look after their old without expecting to lean on the government for everything. He looked after your wife for the first 20+ years of her life; now it's her turn. Which means you.

Sounds very familiar and similar to the Greek family customs.

My own mother died many years before I married my Russian wife. When I married my wife, I deprived her mother from her daughter, the only support and company, naturally we had to take responsibility for her and we have been doing it for the past 10 years.

Thank God babushka, nearly 80 is still able to look after herself..... and prefers to live in my wife's flat but....I expect soon other arrangements has to be made. Luckily there is a divorced sister who will take her into her large house and of course we will continue the financial support until her departure. Sister is a qualified nurse working for many years at the local hospital and know what to do.

In my view for us living here, money is not the biggest problem but personal care is the important one, as you said too.

Well some people have to learn that different countries have different ways to care about their old parents.

 ;D


 

Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Manny on November 18, 2017, 10:36:52 AM
Well some people have to learn that different countries have different ways to care about their old parents.

My wife when she first came here was amazed that families "dump" (her word) older relatives in care homes quite routinely and eschew responsibility. Russians by not doing so are similar to many Asian countries, and as Wiz says in Greece.

I guess this is a bit of a wake up call for Reg. Might be a bigger one if he doesn't step up to the plate with a plan. In the absence of any sons (and if deadbeats they dont count), he will be expected to make decisions of this nature that impact the family.

It's very definitely a cultural thing. As parents get older, you become the decision making man of the family (or consultant at least). It's a responsibility you take on and perform with solemnity. It's a role that also gets you much respect in the family. We have all heard the phrase "the serious man" haven't we?
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Confederate on November 18, 2017, 01:16:14 PM
Why should we have to take out medical cover for him?

Because he is now your relative. If this man is your wife's father, the problem is yours to solve if there are no sons.

Absolutely Agree.....

He is a Russian citizen who has worked all of his life in his country, in his hour of need they should take care of him if he needs it !

Like our government takes care of all our old people faultlessly?

The Russian health system is far from perfect, but it mostly works in its own way. That way is often bribery. £200-£500 to the right person would get him into a decent government care home probably. As a citizen, your wife knows this.

However, Russia is a country where families tend solve their own problems and look after their old without expecting to lean on the government for everything. He looked after your wife for the first 20+ years of her life; now it's her turn. Which means you.

Sounds very familiar and similar to the Greek family customs.

My own mother died many years before I married my Russian wife. When I married my wife, I deprived her mother from her daughter, the only support and company, naturally we had to take responsibility for her and we have been doing it for the past 10 years.

Thank God babushka, nearly 80 is still able to look after herself..... and prefers to live in my wife's flat but....I expect soon other arrangements has to be made. Luckily there is a divorced sister who will take her into her large house and of course we will continue the financial support until her departure. Sister is a qualified nurse working for many years at the local hospital and know what to do.

In my view for us living here, money is not the biggest problem but personal care is the important one, as you said too.

Well some people have to learn that different countries have different ways to care about their old parents.

 ;D

Great post Wiz, glad to see you back.  tiphat
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Romantic Reg on November 18, 2017, 01:24:44 PM
We are engaged and not married, but really that does not make any difference to me with this issue.

Anyway i believe the UK government looks after old people fairly well, in particular if they are ill, they would never cast you away like garbage that is for sure ! My next door neighbour is 87 years old and last week she had a knee replacement op through the NHS, they brought her home in an ambulance and nurses have been coming twice a day to keep an eye on her. I went in to see her and she told me that they had looked after her as if she was the Queen, and she lives with her daughter and grandson !!

To be honest i do not understand fully how things work in Russia other than that bribery is common place, however my girlfriend has not informed me of any " bribery" plans that could benefit her father, i will ask her about this. I know as from today at last he has gone into care of some kind but i have not spoken with her yet about the details.

I do not think that old people should be " dumped " anywhere, they should stay with their families for sure, but in our case this is just impossible because of the seriousness of his illness. The main issue here is poor Medical care and not general care, if it where only general care we would have sorted it a long time ago ! If you have hospital's their role in society is to treat and care for people who are ill, that is their purpose and responsibility whether you are young or old wherever you are in the world, including Russia. There is no issue of anyone " leaning "on government resources, if they are there they should provide a service end of story !

Hopefully now he will get the care he deserves in the right place, but i honestly would not be surprised if at some point for some reason he gets "dumped" somewhere else !



Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Millaa on November 18, 2017, 07:32:45 PM
I do not think that old people should be " dumped " anywhere, they should stay with their families for sure, but in our case this is just impossible because of the seriousness of his illness. The main issue here is poor Medical care and not general care, if it where only general care we would have sorted it a long time ago ! If you have hospital's their role in society is to treat and care for people who are ill, that is their purpose and responsibility whether you are young or old wherever you are in the world, including Russia. There is no issue of anyone " leaning "on government resources, if they are there they should provide a service end of story !
Hopefully now he will get the care he deserves in the right place, but i honestly would not be surprised if at some point for some reason he gets "dumped" somewhere else !

I see the goal of your post is not to solve the problem, it's just another screaming about how bad country Russia is. In my opinion it's your girlfriend who "dumped" her father without help moving to the UK. If she has enough evidence about wrong treatment, she could write to prosecutor's office (they should respond to everybody). They don't treat patients with Parkinson in hospitals, it's for emergencies. In Russia, as Manny wrote, relatives take care of old people. Perhaps I would sympathize to your girlfriend, but not after such title and posts.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Millaa on November 18, 2017, 07:38:09 PM
My wife spent 6 weeks this summer in Russia to get medical care that was just too expensive to get done in the US.  She believes the American medical system sucks.

What? Is she going to the third world country to get medical care???  :chuckle:
 :innocent: Me too (and not because it's expensive), I'm really disappointed in doctors' qualification here.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Confederate on November 18, 2017, 08:26:59 PM
I do not think that old people should be " dumped " anywhere, they should stay with their families for sure, but in our case this is just impossible because of the seriousness of his illness. The main issue here is poor Medical care and not general care, if it where only general care we would have sorted it a long time ago ! If you have hospital's their role in society is to treat and care for people who are ill, that is their purpose and responsibility whether you are young or old wherever you are in the world, including Russia. There is no issue of anyone " leaning "on government resources, if they are there they should provide a service end of story !
Hopefully now he will get the care he deserves in the right place, but i honestly would not be surprised if at some point for some reason he gets "dumped" somewhere else !

I see the goal of your post is not to solve the problem, it's just another screaming about how bad country Russia is. In my opinion it's your girlfriend who "dumped" her father without help moving to the UK. If she has enough evidence about wrong treatment, she could write to prosecutor's office (they should respond to everybody). They don't treat patients with Parkinson in hospitals, it's for emergencies. In Russia, as Manny wrote, relatives take care of old people. Perhaps I would sympathize to your girlfriend, but not after such title and posts.

 tiphat :thumbsup:

He also doesn’t want to acknowledge that if he marries her he should also help out.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Wiz on November 18, 2017, 10:01:52 PM

Great post Wiz, glad to see you back.  tiphat

Thanks confederate ..... but I have a big problem with my PC, which crashed sometime a go and nearly lost all my data, despite I had a slave drive + external one.......have to wait for a specialist to recover the old drive.... and he takes his time. I now post with my old laptop with windows XP.......and it's bloody slow. :smokin:

We are engaged and not married, but really that does not make any difference to me with this issue.

Anyway i believe the UK government looks after old people fairly well, in particular if they are ill, they would never cast you away like garbage that is for sure ! My next door neighbour is 87 years old and last week she had a knee replacement op through the NHS, they brought her home in an ambulance and nurses have been coming twice a day to keep an eye on her. I went in to see her and she told me that they had looked after her as if she was the Queen, and she lives with her daughter and grandson !!

To be honest i do not understand fully how things work in Russia other than that bribery is common place, however my girlfriend has not informed me of any " bribery" plans that could benefit her father, i will ask her about this. I know as from today at last he has gone into care of some kind but i have not spoken with her yet about the details.

I do not think that old people should be " dumped " anywhere, they should stay with their families for sure, but in our case this is just impossible because of the seriousness of his illness. The main issue here is poor Medical care and not general care, if it where only general care we would have sorted it a long time ago ! If you have hospital's their role in society is to treat and care for people who are ill, that is their purpose and responsibility whether you are young or old wherever you are in the world, including Russia. There is no issue of anyone " leaning "on government resources, if they are there they should provide a service end of story !

Hopefully now he will get the care he deserves in the right place, but i honestly would not be surprised if at some point for some reason he gets "dumped" somewhere else !

Sorry but which part of the UK you are living?

I am sorry the UK Government does not look after well, as Manny told you, our old people. The care homes, mostly, are in private hands..... and soon our NHS will be privatised, if you have not noticed.

I have a computer problem otherwise I would give some examples which would make you cringe!

Just an example.... An old lady I know, with a house valued at 2.5 millions (money no object) is gone to a Luxury private care home with dementia  and was dumped in an NHS hospital, as her only daughter is not around at present.......to take care of her. Got a call the other day, wife visiting mama in Russia, went to see myself... and...not a lot I could do! That in a space of 3 months.....last time I met her, just before going to "Luxury private care" she was very lively but now.... just a sack of potatoes.

Manny gave you good advise.....do listen to him and please understand that when you marry a woman you also take extra responsibilities on your shoulder..... like it or not

 tiphat
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Romantic Reg on November 19, 2017, 02:55:55 PM
I think many people are adding to this post without reading it !!

My girfriend's father has no desire at all to move away from Russia, he was asked many times and would never be tempted at any cost so please do not moan about my girlfriend for not making this happen.

Secondly we are not married, but even so i still have taken responsibility for both my girlfriend and her father.

My girlfriend has many Russian friends here in the UK, Germany and France who have all have commented to me just how bad medical care is in Russia, these are Russians complaining so there must be truth in it !

I agree fully that old people should be cared for by their families, but when they can't move, can't eat, have to be fed through a tube and can't talk - you must be joking !! I think one of the previous posts quoted " they don't treat Parkinsons in hospitals in Russia" well i think that statement says it all , the whole point of my post !! So i would like to know exactly where they do treat it in Russia? - this is not just old old age, this is a very serious illness and by the sound of it someone in Russia who is critically ill is not considered to be an emergency ????? I do not think i need to comment any further on this issue, all has now been revealed !













Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: yankee on November 19, 2017, 03:18:40 PM

I think one of the previous posts quoted " they don't treat Parkinsons in hospitals in Russia" well i think that statement says it all , the whole point of my post !!

I suggest you read up on Parkinson's.  The Michael J. Fox Foundation should be a good starting point. 
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Confederate on November 19, 2017, 05:07:02 PM
I think many people are adding to this post without reading it’s t !!

My girfriend's father has no desire at all to move away from Russia, he was asked many times and would never be tempted at any cost so please do not moan about my girlfriend for not making this happen.

Secondly we are not married, but even so i still have taken responsibility for both my girlfriend and her father.

My girlfriend has many Russian friends here in the UK, Germany and France who have all have commented to me just how bad medical care is in Russia, these are Russians complaining so there must be truth in it !

I agree fully that old people should be cared for by their families, but when they can't move, can't eat, have to be fed through a tube and can't talk - you must be joking !! I think one of the previous posts quoted " they don't treat Parkinsons in hospitals in Russia" well i think that statement says it all , the whole point of my post !! So i would like to know exactly where they do treat it in Russia? - this is not just old old age, this is a very serious illness and by the sound of it someone in Russia who is critically ill is not considered to be an emergency ????? I do not think i need to comment any further on this issue, all has now been revealed !

1. No one said your GF’s father should move to the UK.

2. It was said that your GF abondoned her father and I agree. She of all people should know Russian culture and norms.

3. You didn’t really come here wanting constructive advice. Although Manny offered you excellent advice your head is buried in the sand so you’re not open to it.

4. I don’t believe you’re open to it because you just want to vent that the NHS is so superior.

Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Millaa on November 20, 2017, 05:10:26 AM
I agree fully that old people should be cared for by their families, but when they can't move, can't eat, have to be fed through a tube and can't talk - you must be joking !! I think one of the previous posts quoted " they don't treat Parkinsons in hospitals in Russia" well i think that statement says it all , the whole point of my post !! So i would like to know exactly where they do treat it in Russia? - this is not just old old age, this is a very serious illness and by the sound of it someone in Russia who is critically ill is not considered to be an emergency ????? I do not think i need to comment any further on this issue, all has now been revealed !
SO many !!!! and ???? in your posts.  :laugh: In our days if you pay you'll get an excellent care in Russia. Your girlfriend should think about the problem long ago and make a decision to stay and take care herself or organize it. Usually responsible people act this way and don't blame medical system or Putin personally  ;D. I'm not going to state that we have a perfect medical care in Russia, everything is relative.
Please, give an example when the Parkinson's was healed. If the patient has pneumonia, or surgery is required, he'll be in hospital. Parkinson's are different.
I had to postpone my marriage because of my mother. She had an Alzheimer and not in hospital. Our physician visited her every two weeks (for free!), I did injections myself or paid the nurse. Cooking, cleaning, feeding, everything was on me also, as well as full-time job and earning money. It's life. Sorry, you faced such a harsh truth, thousands of Russian families take care about their loved ones and don't complain at foreign forums. My colleague was in such situation for 13 years till her mother passed away.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: dcguyusa on November 20, 2017, 05:57:38 PM
Quote
Please, give an example when the Parkinson's was healed.

There is no cure for Parkinson's.  Jesse Jackson recently revealed that he has the disease.  You can try some treatment to minimize the symptoms, but it will not reverse itself for you to recover.  Try providing almost around the clock care to a quadriplegic.  Sort of like a patient in the early stages of Alzheimer's.  However, you have to use special respiratory equipment, keep checking for blockages, watch electrolyte levels, perform medical procedures as necessary, lift out of bed using a Hoyer lift, etc.  Most people either have to take on the responsibility themselves or "farm it out" to an institution.  In the news recently, an elderly war veteran was in an institution when he had a problem breathing and called out for help.  Cameras recorded the nurses not responding for hours and when they did, they were laughing when they were giving emergency treatment in his room (he died and did not recover).
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Gipsy on November 20, 2017, 09:06:16 PM
My Russian girlfriend has been having a terrible time in Russia over the last 3 months. Her father was ill and taken into hospital where they discovered he has Parkinson's. He can only be fed through tubes in his nose, he can hardly talk, he can hardly move. They discharged him from hospital actually in a worse state than went he went in for my girlfriend to care for him is his apartment without medication or any plan for his care !!! How on earth she is supposed to do this i don't know, he needs constant attention 24 hours a day and she has hurt her back lifting him.
Is this the normal way of dealing with very ill people in Russia ? He should be in a specialist hospital or care home receiving specialist care, basically they have just dumped him as if he were garbage !!
I am absolutely amazed, i just can't believe what has been going on over there, it is a total disgrace !! I never realised just how bad things appear to be in Russia right now, worse than a third world country.
Obviously as a result of this my girlfriend is in despair, she does not what to do.
Has anyone else had a similar experience or know of any solutions?

Please don't tar all of Russian medical care with the same brush, state which area of the country this is taking place..
Parkinson's, as many have stated is in-treatable, and kills eventually.
Many here have also correctly advised you about caring for aged parents is in the hands of family members rather than hospitals, hospices, care homes.
Admittedly, there are fewer specialist doctors in this field in Russia.
I have also experienced Parkinson's in family members, both in the UK and more recently in Russia.
I have also personally experienced medical care in Russia more than once, and am alive and well today due to Russian medical care, something which the NHS failed badly with.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Wiz on November 20, 2017, 09:56:32 PM
My Russian girlfriend has been having a terrible time in Russia over the last 3 months. Her father was ill and taken into hospital where they discovered he has Parkinson's. He can only be fed through tubes in his nose, he can hardly talk, he can hardly move. They discharged him from hospital actually in a worse state than went he went in for my girlfriend to care for him is his apartment without medication or any plan for his care !!! How on earth she is supposed to do this i don't know, he needs constant attention 24 hours a day and she has hurt her back lifting him.
Is this the normal way of dealing with very ill people in Russia ? He should be in a specialist hospital or care home receiving specialist care, basically they have just dumped him as if he were garbage !!
I am absolutely amazed, i just can't believe what has been going on over there, it is a total disgrace !! I never realised just how bad things appear to be in Russia right now, worse than a third world country.
Obviously as a result of this my girlfriend is in despair, she does not what to do.
Has anyone else had a similar experience or know of any solutions?

Please don't tar all of Russian medical care with the same brush, state which area of the country this is taking place..
Parkinson's, as many have stated is in-treatable, and kills eventually.
Many here have also correctly advised you about caring for aged parents is in the hands of family members rather than hospitals, hospices, care homes.
Admittedly, there are fewer specialist doctors in this field in Russia.
I have also experienced Parkinson's in family members, both in the UK and more recently in Russia.

I have also personally experienced medical care in Russia more than once, and am alive and well today due to Russian medical care, something which the NHS failed badly with.

Glad to see you back Gipsy........ and to hear that you are still alive and well ........   :nod: :thumbsup:

I have missed your inside knowledge....... :biggrin:

My personal experience was, while in Russia, visited a specialist doctor, in 2007, who got rid of my chronic bronchitis ...... while our GP and others......in our NHS could not!

Actually the same Doctor warned me that I have gal stones ... and must have an operation, which I did back in 2009, after eating an Ice cream and going to hospital after a 999 call!

 tiphat

PS: Up since 2 am ..... finally managed to sort out my internet connection to my very very old spare XP pc.... while waiting for my main PC to be repaired.  ;D
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: andrewfi on November 21, 2017, 01:49:02 AM
The picture is becoming more clear.

OK. So we know Parkinsonism takes years. We know that the bloke's daughter buggered off to the UK earlier in the process.

Now the bloke is in the later stages of the illness.

The woman is now in Russia doing that which she should have been doing years ago, or have made arrangements for others to do.

Parkinsonism management is not a hospital thing. Hospital treatment is for emergency treatment and short term care. Blaming the hospital for the guy's condition and lack of treatment is simply RomanticReg swallowing the story given to him by his heartless woman.

There's nothing to blame the hospital for here. He has probably been in receipt of better care than he'd have had in the USA or even the UK. However, if he was genuinely alone in the UK then social services would likely have put him into residential care with his home used to finance the care. Similar could have been done in Russia but was likely not done due to the 'interest' of the daughter in the home.

The money claim is going to be that RomanticReg is going to be expected to pay for 'treatment' and 'care' or he will not be able to see his love bunny again.

Perhaps I am over harsh in my assessment but I think that time will likely show me to be close to the mark.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Romantic Reg on November 21, 2017, 03:20:38 AM
I made my post asking for assistance and information because i will admit i do not have enough knowledge of the Russian health system.

There have been some useful replies but many have been complete rubbish, people speculating, blaming,
some inventing their own story, and some that are so naive it is unbelievable!!

The first thing i did when the diagnosis was made was check our NHS guide ( and it is very comprehensive ) regarding Parkinson's so i understand fully what treatment could be given and the long term prognosis. There is no cure for this disease and the symptoms can be extremely varied. However with the correct care, medication and physiotherapy the quality of life can be improved. however we are not talking about the UK NHS, we are talking about Russia, the whole point of my post !

My girfriend's father had a late diagnosis of this illness about 18 -20 months ago and his symptoms were quite mild, he could carry on with normal life fairly well - so he was not abandoned by my girlfriend, she has a life and job in the UK so why should she not carry on with this ? Obviously she called her father every day to make sure he was ok and her best friend went in to see him on a regular basis.

About 9 weeks ago we were informed that he had taken a very dramatic downturn and was rushed to a very basic hospital. Over a fairly short period of time he could not eat and drink properly and had lost a lot of weight and was dehydrated. I have a feeling he did not reveal the seriousness of this to my girlfriend immediately because he did not want to worry her, but nevertheless his condition did deteriorate quite rapidly, i do not know why? My girlfriend went to Russia the next day to be with him.

So now we have a very very ill old person needing immediate medical help, not care on his sofa at home ! If the symptoms of Parkinson's are mild people can be taken care of at home.

He was discharged from the hospital and sent home in a very very poor condition and my girlfriend really had a tough time caring for him in this condition, even with help from friends. He was then admitted to another hospital for a short time but discharged in worse condition that when he was admitted, certainly in no condition to be treated at home by anyone for sure.

Finally after many weeks of battling we have managed to get him into care but i am not sure at this time if he is actually being taken care of well, which should have happened in the first place.

It has become very clear that the medical people in his city in Russia have a very limited understanding of Parkinson's and how to treat people that have it ( which someone has confirmed in a post )  Maybe in Moscow or SP for example they may be better,  this is disappointing but has to be accepted because that is just how it is !

We both know that this illness will be terminal at some point but for now he is still living and needs caring for medically and with palliative care to a decent standard, which we have found so difficult to find or organise, even with payment !!


I will be grateful for any constructive advice or information, but speculation, blaming or moaning is of no use to us at all so you are wasting your time doing it and it is very sad ! Also the previous post seems to have some kind of obsession with Russian women trying to extract money, maybe he has had problems in the past with this ? But for me this is not the case, as i have said in earlier post if you had read it, my girlfriend has a very good job, has money and has not asked me for any and does not need my help. Of course if needed at a later date i would help, this go's without saying.







Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: rosco on November 21, 2017, 03:43:05 AM
Simply put, you or your girlfriend needs to pay for his care, if you want to improve his terminal situation.

It’s already been suggested on this very thread, that it’s almost identical to how it would unfold in the U.K. insurance or personal savings would help but if not, his property would be used to fund the assistance.

Blaming Russian health care might make you feel better for a while, after all some Brits rather enjoy pretending everything foreign is inferior.

However, it’s quite clear what needs to be done and expecting someone else to pay for his treatment is rather leftish and idealistic. My grandfather passed away a few years back after a long term, terminal illness. His entire estate was wiped out whilst the chap in the room next to him, who never had a pot to piss in received the same treatment.

It seemed unfair at the time but I did learn something from it.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Romantic Reg on November 21, 2017, 04:20:46 AM
We are prepared to pay for his Palliative care, but critical medical treatment can only be given by the medical profession and this was the problem. His doctor said that he could live for 18 -24 months Palliative, but any more serious medical issues that occur along the way must be dealt with correctly by the medical profession.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: rosco on November 21, 2017, 04:30:08 AM
We are prepared to pay for his Palliative care, but critical medical treatment can only be given by the medical profession and this was the problem. His doctor said that he could live for 18 -24 months Palliative, but must receive the correct medical care as required along the way.

Sadly some people need to move to receive the treatment they require. My grandfather lived in a fairly rural part of the country and spent his final months in the city, to get the care he needed.

I don’t blame the rural hospitals or care facilities, it comes down to practicalities. I hope you can see why some feel you’ve unfairly attacked the RU health system but I hope you manage to find a solution, for the old mans sake?
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Romantic Reg on November 21, 2017, 04:37:46 AM
He not in a rural enviroment but a decent sized city, i could fully understand it if that was the case.  Also sadly he is not really in any condition to be moved anywhere.

I read an article in the Moscow times titled " Russian healthcare is dying a slow death"

Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Gipsy on November 21, 2017, 06:01:47 AM
He not in a rural enviroment but a decent sized city, i could fully understand it if that was the case.  Also sadly he is not really in any condition to be moved anywhere.

I read an article in the Moscow times titled " Russian healthcare is dying a slow death"

Where, which city?

Don't believe all which you may read in the MT...
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Wiz on November 21, 2017, 09:19:12 PM
He not in a rural enviroment but a decent sized city, i could fully understand it if that was the case.  Also sadly he is not really in any condition to be moved anywhere.

I read an article in the Moscow times titled " Russian healthcare is dying a slow death"

Where, which city?

Don't believe all which you may read in the MT...

He was asked before but avoid to mention it!


PS: Have you noticed this post for you?

http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,26733.msg473454/topicseen.html#msg473454
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Gipsy on November 21, 2017, 10:14:45 PM
He should have the balls to name and shame the city concerned rather than tar the whole country with the same brush.. IMHO.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: msmoby on November 22, 2017, 07:13:11 AM


Don't believe all which you may read in the MT...

Here we go....  it was more believable  that many Kremlin controlled / mates of Kremlin run media

Depending on where you live healthcare in Russia varies widely - from brilliant to nigh on impossible - given the distances involved

 
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Confederate on November 22, 2017, 01:49:46 PM
Quote
Please, give an example when the Parkinson's was healed.

There is no cure for Parkinson's.  Jesse Jackson recently revealed that he has the disease.  You can try some treatment to minimize the symptoms, but it will not reverse itself for you to recover.  Try providing almost around the clock care to a quadriplegic.  Sort of like a patient in the early stages of Alzheimer's.  However, you have to use special respiratory equipment, keep checking for blockages, watch electrolyte levels, perform medical procedures as necessary, lift out of bed using a Hoyer lift, etc.  Most people either have to take on the responsibility themselves or "farm it out" to an institution.  In the news recently, an elderly war veteran was in an institution when he had a problem breathing and called out for help.  Cameras recorded the nurses not responding for hours and when they did, they were laughing when they were giving emergency treatment in his room (he died and did not recover).

You failed to mention this was likely a hate crime. These worthless POS nurses were black and the man who died was a white WWII veteran.

Imagine losing many friends and putting your life on the line to perish at the end while “nurses” laughed in your face.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Confederate on November 23, 2017, 11:30:33 AM
He should have the balls to name and shame the city concerned rather than tar the whole country with the same brush.. IMHO.

 :thumbsup:

Agree 100%.

As Rosco mentioned medical care in the UK can vary drastically from rural to city.

It’s the same here in the USA. Where I’m at is hit or miss but mostly mediocre. About two and a half hours away is world class if you’ve got the $$. I can go about two hours to a Veterans hospital which some aspects are excellent like ER for heart but surgeries could be hit or miss again.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Jerash on November 23, 2017, 11:39:57 AM
With money, anything is possible in Moscow. Depending on where her father is, I think good private care is also available in Novosibirsk. That Russian healthcare is dying a slow death, seems an overly negative and pessimistic assessment, but pretty typical for the Moscow Times from what I’ve seen. That being said, the public system in Russia isn’t probably able to meet the expectations of care you have for your girlfriend’s father. For this, you’ll need to find good private care, which isn’t necessarily available in the city he’s located. In my experience, any Russian who can afford it has private insurance, or ponies up the cost needed to get access to the private system which is on par with anything available in Europe. I wish you well and hope you can find a satisfactory solution to your situation!


.
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Gipsy on November 24, 2017, 01:52:07 AM
With money, anything is possible in Moscow. Depending on where her father is, I think good private care is also available in Novosibirsk. That Russian healthcare is dying a slow death, seems an overly negative and pessimistic assessment, but pretty typical for the Moscow Times from what I’ve seen. That being said, the public system in Russia isn’t probably able to meet the expectations of care you have for your girlfriend’s father. For this, you’ll need to find good private care, which isn’t necessarily available in the city he’s located. In my experience, any Russian who can afford it has private insurance, or ponies up the cost needed to get access to the private system which is on par with anything available in Europe. I wish you well and hope you can find a satisfactory solution to your situation!


.

Along with the local medical care as provided by the govt to everyone in other cities all over RU.

Medical care in Russia is slowly but surely improving throughout the country..
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: Tom Cat on November 28, 2017, 04:22:22 PM
4 rules for choosing medical care in Russia

https://www.rbth.com/lifestyle/326864-how-choosing-medical-care
Title: Re: Medical care in Russia - third world standards ?
Post by: andrewfi on November 29, 2017, 05:46:50 AM
That article summarised in a few words: this article was written for a company called Medicina who recommend that you use only Medicina for all your health needs.

Not editorial. Hardly even advertorial. Marketing in Russia still has some way to go. I bet that most targeted readers of that piece who are seriously interested in arranging health care will have reacted negatively to the presentation. ;)