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Information & Chat About the Former Soviet Union => The Expatriate Life: Living in the Former Soviet Union => Topic started by: andrewfi on March 07, 2019, 11:53:07 AM

Title: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: andrewfi on March 07, 2019, 11:53:07 AM
Hello, welcome back! How are you?
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on March 07, 2019, 02:26:43 PM
The 8th of March is tomorrow. You still have time. Contact me if your lady is in Ukraine; I can arrange flowers/gifts delivery on short notice anywhere in Ukraine for $60! Flowers (not included) are about $15.

Welcome back man, how are you?
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Stirlitz on March 07, 2019, 02:56:35 PM
Thank you. Not so good as five/ten years ago. The Crimea is lost and a lot of business with it too as well as my life style and some property there. But it’s life. I guess I am still luckier than certain Syrians. No bombing and gas attacks from Russian planes so far. One thing is for certain, I spend more time with my wife now that I no longer shuttle between Odessa and the Crimea. And I’m a different person. I am tougher and more determined now. I was in the army and got my own AKM at home now. I don’t give up.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: AvHdB on March 07, 2019, 03:03:55 PM
Greetings to my favorite spy!
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on March 07, 2019, 07:09:36 PM
Thank you. Not so good as five/ten years ago. The Crimea is lost and a lot of business with it too as well as my life style and some property there. But it’s life. I guess I am still luckier than certain Syrians. No bombing and gas attacks from Russian planes so far. One thing is for certain, I spend more time with my wife now that I no longer shuttle between Odessa and the Crimea. And I’m a different person. I am tougher and more determined now. I was in the army and got my own AKM at home now. I don’t give up.

Very interesting. Were you just recently in the Ukrainian Army? Can you tell us more, for example where you were stationed? Being from Odessa don’t you speak Russian as your first language?
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on March 07, 2019, 07:13:11 PM
Greetings to my favorite spy!


I wouldn’t joke about that. The mere implication could cause serious problems should Russia try to get their land bridge.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: AvHdB on March 07, 2019, 07:19:07 PM
Greetings to my favorite spy!


I wouldn’t joke about that. The mere implication could cause serious problems should Russia try to get their land bridge.

Relax, Stirlitz is a famous character from a TV series in the Soviet Union time. He was a spy who is/was part of folklore. Sort of James Bond & Austin Powers in a single character.

NB: Edit after Confederate Post.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on March 07, 2019, 07:21:14 PM
Greetings to my favorite spy!


I wouldn’t joke about that. The mere implication could cause serious problems should Russia try to get their land bridge.

Relax, Stirlitz is a famous character from a TV series in the Soviet Union time. He was a bumbling spy.


TPTB are just absurd enough to ignore that and consider it to be a cover.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Stirlitz on March 08, 2019, 01:33:22 PM
Very interesting. Were you just recently in the Ukrainian Army? Can you tell us more, for example where you were stationed? Being from Odessa don’t you speak Russian as your first language?
I was there in 2015. I was stationed in Odessa. In fact, at Odessa Airport as a border guard.

(http://i.piccy.info/i9/39ee96c5941a4d9c861afb49e3b7fb67/1552077876/380225/1238771/2015_08_27_0051.jpg)

I speak Odessan as my native language as I was born in Odessa. I am told that those hordes in the north speak the same language but it sounds different although they indeed use a lot of similar words.

Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on March 08, 2019, 02:17:24 PM
Very interesting. Were you just recently in the Ukrainian Army? Can you tell us more, for example where you were stationed? Being from Odessa don’t you speak Russian as your first language?
I was there in 2015. I was stationed in Odessa. In fact, at Odessa Airport as a border guard.

(http://i.piccy.info/i9/39ee96c5941a4d9c861afb49e3b7fb67/1552077876/380225/1238771/2015_08_27_0051.jpg)

I speak Odessan as my native language as I was born in Odessa. I am told that those hordes in the north speak the same language but it sounds different although they indeed use a lot of similar words.


Well congratulations on being patriotic. I’m glad you feel it toughened you up. It’s a very serious situation for Ukraine. I’ve heard that the number of Ukrainian males serving is quite small which puts a lot of pressure on the frontline combat troops.

I went into the service right after High School, it was a patriotic thing to do being from a small city originally. Thankfully never saw combat. Now that I know more about it I wouldn’t go again unless the continental USA was being invaded.

PS. That’s an excellent photo of you BTW, thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Manny on March 09, 2019, 05:01:16 PM
Welcome back, Igor. It’s been a long time. 8 years actually.

Crimea is lost

You don’t think Crimea returned home by democratic vote?
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: andrewfi on March 09, 2019, 05:02:16 PM
Welcome back, Igor. It’s been a long time. 8 years actually.

Crimea is lost

You don’t think Crimea returned home by democratic vote?
Crimea has been lost to Ukraine. It does not matter about a vote.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Manny on March 09, 2019, 05:04:18 PM
Welcome back, Igor. It’s been a long time. 8 years actually.

Crimea is lost

You don’t think Crimea returned home by democratic vote?
Crimea has been lost to Ukraine. It does not matter about a vote.

Nice to see Igor back all the same.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on March 10, 2019, 02:15:11 AM
 I will happily recommend igor & his services to anyone who asks
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: NS1 on March 10, 2019, 08:34:18 AM
Welcome back, Igor. It’s been a long time. 8 years actually.

Crimea is lost

You don’t think Crimea returned home by democratic vote?

There was a vote, I doubt it was very democratic LOL.
As said above the how and why have little consolation now.
It is what it is. Likely the sad part is two very close countries
are not so close anymore.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: AvHdB on March 10, 2019, 09:55:58 AM
I will happily recommend igor & his services to anyone who asks

I second the recommendedation.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Stirlitz on April 23, 2019, 01:26:49 PM
You don’t think Crimea returned home by democratic vote?
Not sure what to say unless you are kidding. OK, I DO NOT THINK SO. Of course, not. The Crimea was occupied using military force, that is a clear fact. Any 'vote' that you refer to was slapstick for domestic users. It was about 30% of the locals who went there.

And it did not return home. What is its 'home'? It was Greek for a thousand years. It was Turkish for 300 years.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA..
Post by: msmoby on April 23, 2019, 01:49:52 PM
Poor Stirlitz,

Perhaps he didn't realise RUA stands for Revisionists Unite Against ( facts), now

Thou shalt not question the mantra ...

How could anyone suggest the 'little green men' were not GRU physically seizing Parliament, the hosts military installations, TV / radio / comms masts ..by pointing guns were not acting militarily ?

How could anyone question the 'referendum' result or the need to become Russian ?..








Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on April 23, 2019, 02:06:03 PM
You don’t think Crimea returned home by democratic vote?
Not sure what to say unless you are kidding. OK, I DO NOT THINK SO. Of course, not. The Crimea was occupied using military force, that is a clear fact. Any 'vote' that you refer to was slapstick for domestic users. It was about 30% of the locals who went there.

And it did not return home. What is its 'home'? It was Greek for a thousand years. It was Turkish for 300 years.

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: dcguyusa on April 23, 2019, 04:37:43 PM
The inhabitants of this planet (descended from who knows where or maybe conjured up from dirt) appear to have this notion that they "own" certain regions of the planet.  When the next major asteroid or comet makes a bee line straight to the center of the planet, I don't think their pronouncements of ownership will be able to be backed up.   :GRAVE:  :o (:)
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: BillyB on April 23, 2019, 09:58:05 PM

Article 73 of the Ukrainian constitution says any change of borders is to be voted in a referendum of all Ukrainian people. In other words if an Oblast wants to leave, it has to be by vote of all Ukrainian people. The vote in Crimea wasn't legal.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: msmoby on April 24, 2019, 01:01:21 AM
BillyB

You are in the wrong place to  put that point..

Manny and andrewfi - will both contend who had the bigger army was 'correct' when it comes to Ukraine


...and anyway - according to the Communist Party of Ukraine ( SSR) - Ukraine never left the USSR and it never - legally broke up ;)



Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 24, 2019, 08:30:02 AM

Article 73 of the Ukrainian constitution says any change of borders is to be voted in a referendum of all Ukrainian people. In other words if an Oblast wants to leave, it has to be by vote of all Ukrainian people. The vote in Crimea wasn't legal.

Yet Crimea wasn't Fully Ukrainian to begin with, its full name being "The autonomous republic of Crimea" , so not all of Ukrainian law applied on Crimea. They certainly had their own right to vote and they did just that.

Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 24, 2019, 08:32:43 AM
You don’t think Crimea returned home by democratic vote?
Not sure what to say unless you are kidding. OK, I DO NOT THINK SO. Of course, not. The Crimea was occupied using military force, that is a clear fact. Any 'vote' that you refer to was slapstick for domestic users. It was about 30% of the locals who went there.

And it did not return home. What is its 'home'? It was Greek for a thousand years. It was Turkish for 300 years.

Home is where the heart is. Most of my inlaws living in Crimea feel "Crimean", and only after that Russian or Ukrainian.

During the vote, I saw a huge skype-time with my mother inlaw in Evpatoria and that was basicly a huge streetparty. There certainly weren' any guns involved and everyone already knew the outcome before the voting ended.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: cufflinks on April 24, 2019, 02:36:53 PM
Stirlitz iirc your mother lived in a small Crimean village surrounded by peach orchards - hope she is well despite the politics of the UA/RU situation - congrats on your choice to serve in the Armed Forces accelerates a mans maturity and focus.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: BillyB on April 24, 2019, 11:48:10 PM

Article 73 of the Ukrainian constitution says any change of borders is to be voted in a referendum of all Ukrainian people. In other words if an Oblast wants to leave, it has to be by vote of all Ukrainian people. The vote in Crimea wasn't legal.

Yet Crimea wasn't Fully Ukrainian to begin with, its full name being "The autonomous republic of Crimea" , so not all of Ukrainian law applied on Crimea. They certainly had their own right to vote and they did just that.

The Autonomous Republic and Crimea Constitution in the link below. It conforms with the Ukrainian Constitution.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140312144006/http://www.rada.crimea.ua/en/bases-of-activity/konstituciya-ARK

For Crimeans to want to change the border of Ukraine, an all Ukrainian referendum must take place according to Article 73. All Ukrainians must be allowed to vote or the vote is illegal.

States in the USA are given the freedom to make their own laws to a certain extent too. My State legalized marijuana. The federal government says it's illegal. A person in my state gets pulled over with the drug by the State or city cops will not get arrested. If a federal law enforcement officer pulls over someone in my state with the drug, they can get arrested.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 25, 2019, 04:54:54 AM

Article 73 of the Ukrainian constitution says any change of borders is to be voted in a referendum of all Ukrainian people. In other words if an Oblast wants to leave, it has to be by vote of all Ukrainian people. The vote in Crimea wasn't legal.

Yet Crimea wasn't Fully Ukrainian to begin with, its full name being "The autonomous republic of Crimea" , so not all of Ukrainian law applied on Crimea. They certainly had their own right to vote and they did just that.

The Autonomous Republic and Crimea Constitution in the link below. It conforms with the Ukrainian Constitution.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140312144006/http://www.rada.crimea.ua/en/bases-of-activity/konstituciya-ARK

For Crimeans to want to change the border of Ukraine, an all Ukrainian referendum must take place according to Article 73. All Ukrainians must be allowed to vote or the vote is illegal.

States in the USA are given the freedom to make their own laws to a certain extent too. My State legalized marijuana. The federal government says it's illegal. A person in my state gets pulled over with the drug by the State or city cops will not get arrested. If a federal law enforcement officer pulls over someone in my state with the drug, they can get arrested.

Im sorry, I tend to believe a Ukrainian lawyer any day over some URL with rada.ua in the name.

Plus, if you ask the same webpage from somewhere BEFORE the vote (say 2012) , article 48 is the last. So no, sorry, I don' believe the link.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: andrewfi on April 25, 2019, 05:26:12 AM
Somebody, not Mark, missing the point, again. At the instant of the coup, the state of Ukraine as it existed under the legitimate head of state Yanukovych ended. A new state was formed and, eventually, a new president and head of state was chosen and a new constitution created.

There have been many versions of constitutions in Ukraine but given the actions in 2014 they were rendered moot. That said, if one wishes to rely upon a constitution, Mark's missus is right. :)
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA..
Post by: 2tallbill on April 25, 2019, 11:49:42 AM
Poor Stirlitz,

Perhaps he didn't realise RUA stands for Revisionists Unite Against ( facts), now

How could anyone question the 'referendum' result or the need to become Russian ?..

It stands for the Removing of Unapproved Activities or posts that
the forum owner would prefer not to see.

Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: BillyB on April 25, 2019, 09:35:18 PM
Im sorry, I tend to believe a Ukrainian lawyer any day over some URL with rada.ua in the name.


I've never seen two lawyers agree on everything. They have flaws.

Plus, if you ask the same webpage from somewhere BEFORE the vote (say 2012) , article 48 is the last. So no, sorry, I don' believe the link.

If you have a better link to their Constitution, I will read it. Article 1 is the only thing anyone needs to read to see Crimea's Constitution is tied to Ukraine's

At the instant of the coup, the state of Ukraine as it existed under the legitimate head of state Yanukovych ended. A new state was formed and, eventually, a new president and head of state was chosen and a new constitution created.

There have been many versions of constitutions in Ukraine but given the actions in 2014 they were rendered moot. That said, if one wishes to rely upon a constitution, Mark's missus is right. :)

Usually when a coup happens, the guy who initiated the coup deletes the protection/Constitution of the people. When the people oust a president, they don't delete their protection/Constitution. If you can cite a law pertaining to that issue, I'd like to see it. If you can't cite a law, you are giving us your opinion of what goes down in a coup by the people. Ukraine's Constitution was never a failure. Their politicians were/are a failure.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 26, 2019, 04:27:40 AM
Im sorry, I tend to believe a Ukrainian lawyer any day over some URL with rada.ua in the name.


I've never seen two lawyers agree on everything. They have flaws.

Plus, if you ask the same webpage from somewhere BEFORE the vote (say 2012) , article 48 is the last. So no, sorry, I don' believe the link.

If you have a better link to their Constitution, I will read it. Article 1 is the only thing anyone needs to read to see Crimea's Constitution is tied to Ukraine's

At the instant of the coup, the state of Ukraine as it existed under the legitimate head of state Yanukovych ended. A new state was formed and, eventually, a new president and head of state was chosen and a new constitution created.

There have been many versions of constitutions in Ukraine but given the actions in 2014 they were rendered moot. That said, if one wishes to rely upon a constitution, Mark's missus is right. :)

Usually when a coup happens, the guy who initiated the coup deletes the protection/Constitution of the people. When the people oust a president, they don't delete their protection/Constitution. If you can cite a law pertaining to that issue, I'd like to see it. If you can't cite a law, you are giving us your opinion of what goes down in a coup by the people. Ukraine's Constitution was never a failure. Their politicians were/are a failure.

The impeachment procedures of Ukraine were not followed when Yanukovich was outted. Therefore any government between Yanus leave and Poros election was invalid. Impeachment of a sitting president was a very clear and strict provision in Ukraines laws. It even named a direct successor should this event come to pass, but the person named was also outted with Yanukovich. This alone means it was a full coup and nothing else.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: andrewfi on April 26, 2019, 04:30:37 AM
Billy, making stuff up to suit your 'argument' will not help you when dealing with people who think on a different level. Some people know the difference between bullshit and knowledge and prefer knowledge as a more useful tool.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: msmoby on April 26, 2019, 12:08:08 PM
Billy, making stuff up to suit your 'argument' will not help you when dealing with people who think on a different level. Some people know the difference between bullshit and knowledge and prefer knowledge as a more useful tool.

Looking forward to seeing evidence of factual knowledge from your goodself..
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: BillyB on April 26, 2019, 09:58:37 PM
The impeachment procedures of Ukraine were not followed when Yanukovich was outted. Therefore any government between Yanus leave and Poros election was invalid. Impeachment of a sitting president was a very clear and strict provision in Ukraines laws. It even named a direct successor should this event come to pass, but the person named was also outted with Yanukovich. This alone means it was a full coup and nothing else.

Who ousted Yanukovych? Nobody physically removed him from power. He left Ukraine on his own free will.

Did you read the Ukrainian Constitution? Don't rely on lawyers. It's easy to understand. Impeachment due to crimes committed isn't the only way a president can be relieved of his duties. A president can die or has the inability to exercise his/her powers and be relieved of his/her duties. In Yanukovych's case, the Rada removed him on grounds that he was unable to fulfill his duties. Anybody that doesn't show up for work gets fired....including the president.  Yanukovych was free to come back and defend himself from impeachment but he chose to stay in Russia and buy a 52 million dollar house.

Billy, making stuff up to suit your 'argument' will not help you when dealing with people who think on a different level. Some people know the difference between bullshit and knowledge and prefer knowledge as a more useful tool.

If you like intelligent debate, say something intelligent.  If you want to discuss what was legal and illegal, use the Constitution. Point out an article in the Constitution that backs your position. Your opinion doesn't matter to me.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 27, 2019, 06:13:07 AM

Who ousted Yanukovych? Nobody physically removed him from power. He left Ukraine on his own free will.
You mean, he left Ukraine at gunpoint fearing for his life.
Thats not free will, its a life-or-death decision.

Quote
Did you read the Ukrainian Constitution? Don't rely on lawyers. It's easy to understand. Impeachment due to crimes committed isn't the only way a president can be relieved of his duties. A president can die or has the inability to exercise his/her powers and be relieved of his/her duties. In Yanukovych's case, the Rada removed him on grounds that he was unable to fulfill his duties. Anybody that doesn't show up for work gets fired....including the president.  Yanukovych was free to come back and defend himself from impeachment but he chose to stay in Russia and buy a 52 million dollar house.
I did, there are exactly 3 reasons for impeachment. unable to fill his duties is not one. And its a finite non-amendable list as well.

1. President is sick and/or terminally ill and is unable to fullfill his duties (context!!!!)
2. President committed heinous crimes like mass-murder ala hitler style (forgot the exact wording).
3. President commits treason against the state of Ukraine.

Non-amendable list, only these 3 points count. Yanukovich is not sick or terminally ill, they failed to make a case for treason or heinous crimes.

So. Illegal impeachment.

Also the constitution states directly that if a president is impeached, the prime minister (at that time also of yanukovich's party) takes the presidency and will work towards swift elections to allow the people to choose a new president.

All of that didnt happen either, the prime minister was also denied and there were no swift elections, they dragged their feet for months on end and when it was finally there, 3 major oblasts (Crimea, Donetsk and Lughansk) were not allowed to vote.

Billy, making stuff up to suit your 'argument' will not help you when dealing with people who think on a different level. Some people know the difference between bullshit and knowledge and prefer knowledge as a more useful tool.

Quote
If you like intelligent debate, say something intelligent.  If you want to discuss what was legal and illegal, use the Constitution. Point out an article in the Constitution that backs your position. Your opinion doesn't matter to me.
Articles 109/111 of the ukraine constitution, the wording of which is exacter than my quotes above. Do search for the pre-2014 version as it has since been amended with new articles.

Also , to even be allowed to vote for impeachment, another safety-provision in Ukraine's law wasn't followed. a 3/4 majority of all of the highest circle of judges must agree to the vote and find yanukovich guilty BEFORE a vote. (also didnt happen). Article 108 of the const.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: msmoby on April 27, 2019, 06:26:47 AM
Markje,

Yankovych fled Ukrainian justice ( willingly) aided by Russian GRU personnel

You KNOW this and the shame portrayed by the Party of Regions at his family dynasty looting Ukraine!s coffers.

A bit like your 'no military action' in Crimea... you have an interesting (selective) version of factual events..

Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on April 27, 2019, 07:42:33 AM
I see the usual pro-Russian apologists (Andy and Mark) have gone into hyper-drive trying to defend that bloated thug thief Yanucrookich. As BillyB just wrote upthread he could have easily gone back to Kiev and defended himself against impeachment, he didn’t do it because he was facing life in prison for his crimes against the Ukrainian people.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on April 27, 2019, 07:44:22 AM
The impeachment procedures of Ukraine were not followed when Yanukovich was outted. Therefore any government between Yanus leave and Poros election was invalid. Impeachment of a sitting president was a very clear and strict provision in Ukraines laws. It even named a direct successor should this event come to pass, but the person named was also outted with Yanukovich. This alone means it was a full coup and nothing else.

Who ousted Yanukovych? Nobody physically removed him from power. He left Ukraine on his own free will.

Did you read the Ukrainian Constitution? Don't rely on lawyers. It's easy to understand. Impeachment due to crimes committed isn't the only way a president can be relieved of his duties. A president can die or has the inability to exercise his/her powers and be relieved of his/her duties. In Yanukovych's case, the Rada removed him on grounds that he was unable to fulfill his duties. Anybody that doesn't show up for work gets fired....including the president.  Yanukovych was free to come back and defend himself from impeachment but he chose to stay in Russia and buy a 52 million dollar house.

Billy, making stuff up to suit your 'argument' will not help you when dealing with people who think on a different level. Some people know the difference between bullshit and knowledge and prefer knowledge as a more useful tool.

If you like intelligent debate, say something intelligent.  If you want to discuss what was legal and illegal, use the Constitution. Point out an article in the Constitution that backs your position. Your opinion doesn't matter to me.

 :chuckle:  tiphat
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: BillyB on April 27, 2019, 09:57:10 AM
So. Illegal impeachment.


There was no illegal impeachment because there was NO IMPEACHMENT. Impeachment isn't the only way a president can get relieved of his or her duties.

Also the constitution states directly that if a president is impeached, the prime minister (at that time also of yanukovich's party) takes the presidency and will work towards swift elections to allow the people to choose a new president.


Yanyukovych's party can't take the presidency because there was NO IMPEACHMENT.

3 major oblasts (Crimea, Donetsk and Lughansk) were not allowed to vote.


Citizens there could go to voting stations outside a war zone. Government can't set up voting stations in a war zone and guarantee safety. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know if voting stations were set up, some would get bombed.

Also , to even be allowed to vote for impeachment, another safety-provision in Ukraine's law wasn't followed. a 3/4 majority of all of the highest circle of judges must agree to the vote and find yanukovich guilty BEFORE a vote. (also didnt happen). Article 108 of the const.

There was NO VOTE TO IMPEACH so 3/4 majority not necessary. Why apply the rules for impeachment when impeachment didn't happen? Yanukovych abandoned his job The day before he left, he called for early elections on his presidential website. Ukraine had early elections. Nothing wrong with that.

You mean, he left Ukraine at gunpoint fearing for his life.
Thats not free will, its a life-or-death decision.


Are you sure the guns were pointed at him? hundreds of civilians died. Thousands were injured. How many politicians do you know got hurt or died? The parliament issued a warrant for his arrest, accusing him of "mass killing of civilians." Later he was sentenced in absentia to thirteen years' imprisonment for high treason by a Ukrainian court. I'm sure you know he's one if the richest men in the world with his worth estimated to be over 20 billion dollars. Hopefully Yanukovych comes back to Ukraine someday to prove his innocence.


Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 27, 2019, 10:56:14 AM
I see the usual pro-Russian apologists (Andy and Mark) have gone into hyper-drive trying to defend that bloated thug thief Yanucrookich. As BillyB just wrote upthread he could have easily gone back to Kiev and defended himself against impeachment, he didn’t do it because he was facing life in prison for his crimes against the Ukrainian people.
What does Russia have to do with what happened within Ukraine? thats a whole different country.

Its like saying I am pro-canadian because we are talking about the Impeachment of Clinton.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 27, 2019, 11:05:24 AM

There was no illegal impeachment because there was NO IMPEACHMENT. Impeachment isn't the only way a president can get relieved of his or her duties.

Yanyukovych's party can't take the presidency because there was NO IMPEACHMENT.

There was NO VOTE TO IMPEACH so 3/4 majority not necessary. Why apply the rules for impeachment when impeachment didn't happen? Yanukovych abandoned his job The day before he left, he called for early elections on his presidential website. Ukraine had early elections. Nothing wrong with that.

I am sorry, I thought Impeachment was the proper american-english word to describe all the legal removal of presidents from power. If there is another more common word to cover all legal cases, please educate this non-native english writer. Still stands complete with the correct articles in the Ukrainian constitution that those are the only legal ways to remove a president from power.


3 major oblasts (Crimea, Donetsk and Lughansk) were not allowed to vote.


Citizens there could go to voting stations outside a war zone. Government can't set up voting stations in a war zone and guarantee safety. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know if voting stations were set up, some would get bombed.
The logistics didn't matter. If you turned up with a Passport of Ukraine issued in said 3 oblasts you were denied the vote. Thats what I meant with "not allowed to vote". (Personal experience also, from my Crimean inlaws whom did try to vote but werent allowed to. Source: Myself.).



You mean, he left Ukraine at gunpoint fearing for his life.
Thats not free will, its a life-or-death decision.


Are you sure the guns were pointed at him? hundreds of civilians died. Thousands were injured. How many politicians do you know got hurt or died? The parliament issued a warrant for his arrest, accusing him of "mass killing of civilians." Later he was sentenced in absentia to thirteen years' imprisonment for high treason by a Ukrainian court. I'm sure you know he's one if the richest men in the world with his worth estimated to be over 20 billion dollars. Hopefully Yanukovych comes back to Ukraine someday to prove his innocence.

I truly hope so too. It shouldn't matter where the guns were pointed, he had enough loyal guards to provide him with safety.

Leaving his post could be treason, although Ukrainian law at that time did not stipulate a president must be physically close to Ukraine/kyiv. Another thing that was fixed later.

The arrest warrent with "mass murder" of civilians is a big joke, if you compare it to what Poroshenko did  :censored: Thank god he is gone. Will see what happens with Zelensky.

Mark.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on April 27, 2019, 01:23:45 PM
I see the usual pro-Russian apologists (Andy and Mark) have gone into hyper-drive trying to defend that bloated thug thief Yanucrookich. As BillyB just wrote upthread he could have easily gone back to Kiev and defended himself against impeachment, he didn’t do it because he was facing life in prison for his crimes against the Ukrainian people.
What does Russia have to do with what happened within Ukraine? thats a whole different country.


If Russia had nothing to do with it then why did the weasel run there for shelter?

If Russia is innocent of harboring a convicted felon and fugitive from justice when

will Russia be sending him back to face justice in Ukraine where he has been

convicted of treason and other crimes against the Ukrainian people?

Don’t try your sneaky word games with me, Mark.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 27, 2019, 02:15:43 PM

If Russia had nothing to do with it then why did the weasel run there for shelter?
Dunno, why did snowden? why did 1 million ukrainians whom no longer felt safe in their own country?

Perhaps because its a world-power and stable country? A country that can offer shelter from Ukraine if it needs to?


If Russia is innocent of harboring a convicted felon and fugitive from justice when
He is guilty of a crime then? that hasn't been determined yet.

will Russia be sending him back to face justice in Ukraine where he has been

convicted of treason and other crimes against the Ukrainian people?

Don’t try your sneaky word games with me, Mark.
He hasn't been convicted a.f.a.i.k but I must confess i don't really follow the news.

As to extradition: Did Ukraine send a request yet? (or do they think its useless and didnt bother, which gives Russia no grounds to give him up)

Also, Interpol did for a short time list Yanukovich as a wanted criminal, but took it down listing "political prosecutions are not welcome".
So why did interpol decide it was not a real prosecution but rather someone whom was politically hunted with the law.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: NS1 on April 27, 2019, 02:39:42 PM
As per normal here, the subject has gone off track.
How it happened, regardless of your position of the law.
I suspect not much happened as it should, maybe from either side.

It has happened, it has created a big divided in 2 nations.
Which will likely never be repaired.
We have even lost friends here over it.
My wife lost her land in Krym.
funny how it belongs to a Russian now.

So argue all you want, you will find a multitude
of people on both sides who will never agree.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on April 27, 2019, 02:45:14 PM
As per normal here, the subject has gone off track.
How it happened, regardless of your position of the law.
I suspect not much happened as it should, maybe from either side.

It has happened, it has created a big divided in 2 nations.
Which will likely never be repaired.
We have even lost friends here over it.
My wife lost her land in Krym.
funny how it belongs to a Russian now.

So argue all you want, you will find a multitude
of people on both sides who will never agree.

You’re off base. The truth is the truth and it will come out in the end.

And unlike Putin’s Russia motto might doesn’t make right.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: NS1 on April 27, 2019, 02:57:44 PM
what am i off base on?
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: AvHdB on April 27, 2019, 04:23:02 PM
We are far removed from matters regarding Stirlitz.

But anyways the first woman I dated from Russia her family owned a small hotel and some other rental properties on the Krym. They lost all of it when the Krym 'joined' Russia. Notwithstanding they were Russian. As well as Orthodox (Christian's) and Tartars.

So much for the rule of law in Putin's Russia.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: B.B. on April 27, 2019, 04:34:43 PM
So I am checking in to welcome Stirlitz back.

I saw him in Odessa when he was working as border guard at the airport.  I had already passed security and was in the business lounge.  As he can (or could at that time) go wherever he wished at the airport, he came to see me.

So we greeted each other as friends, and after the other patrons in the business lounge looked at me, quizzically, clearly thinking, "Who is this guy that border guards, who always look so stern and NEVER smile, are so friendly with?"

 :ROFL:

B/B
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 27, 2019, 05:17:08 PM
We are far removed from matters regarding Stirlitz.

But anyways the first woman I dated from Russia her family owned a small hotel and some other rental properties on the Krym. They lost all of it when the Krym 'joined' Russia. Notwithstanding they were Russian. As well as Orthodox (Christian's) and Tartars.

So much for the rule of law in Putin's Russia.


Ah right, and you knew what went wrong and therefore its a Lawless country and Russias fault.

NS1 had a similar story and that amounted to 'forgetting' to register your properties with Russia after it joined Crimea.

Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 27, 2019, 05:18:16 PM
So I am checking in to welcome Stirlitz back.

I saw him in Odessa when he was working as border guard at the airport.  I had already passed security and was in the business lounge.  As he can (or could at that time) go wherever he wished at the airport, he came to see me.

So we greeted each other as friends, and after the other patrons in the business lounge looked at me, quizzically, clearly thinking, "Who is this guy that border guards, who always look so stern and NEVER smile, are so friendly with?"

 :ROFL:

B/B

How things have changed, he certainly smiled alot when we drove from Odessa->Evp. together. Must've enjoyed the ride as much as I did in that old classic volga.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: NS1 on April 27, 2019, 11:15:52 PM
We are far removed from matters regarding Stirlitz.

But anyways the first woman I dated from Russia her family owned a small hotel and some other rental properties on the Krym. They lost all of it when the Krym 'joined' Russia. Notwithstanding they were Russian. As well as Orthodox (Christian's) and Tartars.

So much for the rule of law in Putin's Russia.


Ah right, and you knew what went wrong and therefore its a Lawless country and Russias fault.

NS1 had a similar story and that amounted to 'forgetting' to register your properties with Russia after it joined Crimea.

You should not presume, what you don't know.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on April 28, 2019, 10:32:50 AM
So I am checking in to welcome Stirlitz back.

I saw him in Odessa when he was working as border guard at the airport.  I had already passed security and was in the business lounge.  As he can (or could at that time) go wherever he wished at the airport, he came to see me.

So we greeted each other as friends, and after the other patrons in the business lounge looked at me, quizzically, clearly thinking, "Who is this guy that border guards, who always look so stern and NEVER smile, are so friendly with?"

 :ROFL:

B/B


Bond, Boston Bond.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on April 28, 2019, 10:35:32 AM
We are far removed from matters regarding Stirlitz.

But anyways the first woman I dated from Russia her family owned a small hotel and some other rental properties on the Krym. They lost all of it when the Krym 'joined' Russia. Notwithstanding they were Russian. As well as Orthodox (Christian's) and Tartars.

So much for the rule of law in Putin's Russia.


Ah right, and you knew what went wrong and therefore its a Lawless country and Russias fault.

NS1 had a similar story and that amounted to 'forgetting' to register your properties with Russia after it joined Crimea.


Russia is the ultimate lawful country.

Well connected carpetbaggers are rewarded lawfully.  :-*

Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: BillyB on April 28, 2019, 12:57:41 PM
I am sorry, I thought Impeachment was the proper american-english word to describe all the legal removal of presidents from power. If there is another more common word to cover all legal cases, please educate this non-native english writer. Still stands complete with the correct articles in the Ukrainian constitution that those are the only legal ways to remove a president from power.


Your English is good enough to understand there are more reasons than impeachment to terminate the Ukrainian president's job before the term is up. Read Article 108 again and if you can't comprehend it, then there is not much more I can do to help.

Now no Constitution covers everything by getting specific. Let's say aliens abduct a president, do sexual experimentations on him, inject him with drugs and he becomes a vegetable. Basically the president is incapacitated. If a president leaves the country forever, he is also incapacitated - unable to act, respond, or the like. The people of a nation deserves to have laws passed and a functioning government. Life goes on with or without that president. You may not like it but that is the way it is. If a Constitution doesn't cover all bases, which they never do, parliament, people's representatives, can step up and make decisions.

The logistics didn't matter. If you turned up with a Passport of Ukraine issued in said 3 oblasts you were denied the vote. Thats what I meant with "not allowed to vote". (Personal experience also, from my Crimean inlaws whom did try to vote but werent allowed to. Source: Myself.).


Your one experiences with your inlaws doesn't mean that is the experience with everybody in those oblasts. The OSCE and UN said some, but not all were able to vote due to the threat of death to the voters.

https://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/ukraine/119078?download=true

https://www.un.org/press/en/2014/sc11417.doc.htm

He is guilty of a crime then? that hasn't been determined yet.


A high Ukrainian court sentenced Yanukovych to 13 years in prison for high treason. After Yanu fled to Russia, he wrote a letter to Putin inviting Russian troops and police into Ukraine to restore order. Of course we know the rest of the story and know that Yana wanted Russia to restore him as Supreme leader of Ukraine. Yanu should remember the oath he took to become president promising to protect Ukraine's independence and sovereignty.

Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: AvHdB on April 28, 2019, 04:56:10 PM
We are far removed from matters regarding Stirlitz.

But anyways the first woman I dated from Russia her family owned a small hotel and some other rental properties on the Krym. They lost all of it when the Krym 'joined' Russia. Notwithstanding they were Russian. As well as Orthodox (Christian's) and Tartars.

So much for the rule of law in Putin's Russia.


Ah right, and you knew what went wrong and therefore its a Lawless country and Russias fault.

NS1 had a similar story and that amounted to 'forgetting' to register your properties with Russia after it joined Crimea.


Russia is the ultimate lawful country.

Well connected carpetbaggers are rewarded lawfully.  :-*

Since the family were builders going back to the Soviet period I believe they understood the ins and outs of the system. Further the uncle was present on the Krym before, during the Anschluss and after when the holdings were stripped from the family. I doubt it had little to do with paper work that was not filed correctly.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 28, 2019, 06:27:19 PM
Your English is good enough to understand there are more reasons than impeachment to terminate the Ukrainian president's job before the term is up. Read Article 108 again and if you can't comprehend it, then there is not much more I can do to help.

Now no Constitution covers everything by getting specific. Let's say aliens abduct a president, do sexual experimentations on him, inject him with drugs and he becomes a vegetable. Basically the president is incapacitated. If a president leaves the country forever, he is also incapacitated - unable to act, respond, or the like. The people of a nation deserves to have laws passed and a functioning government. Life goes on with or without that president. You may not like it but that is the way it is. If a Constitution doesn't cover all bases, which they never do, parliament, people's representatives, can step up and make decisions.
Thats why having a finite list is such a bad idea, but that doesn't make your statement true at the time of 2013/2014 though. Since then, this has been fixed.
Quote
Your one experiences with your inlaws doesn't mean that is the experience with everybody in those oblasts. The OSCE and UN said some, but not all were able to vote due to the threat of death to the voters.

https://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/ukraine/119078?download=true

https://www.un.org/press/en/2014/sc11417.doc.htm
Some in my book means less then half, otherwise you would say "half" or "most" but not "some". In the grand scheme of things, this means I am correct and you were not allowed to vote. BTW, there was no fear of death from Crimea->Mainland ukraine, yet you still could not vote.

Quote
He is guilty of a crime then? that hasn't been determined yet.


A high Ukrainian court sentenced Yanukovych to 13 years in prison for high treason. After Yanu fled to Russia, he wrote a letter to Putin inviting Russian troops and police into Ukraine to restore order. Of course we know the rest of the story and know that Yana wanted Russia to restore him as Supreme leader of Ukraine. Yanu should remember the oath he took to become president promising to protect Ukraine's independence and sovereignty.
Pulling a moby on me? Moving the goalposts here. We were talking about crimes which could lead to his legal removal from the presidency, not things committed later.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: BillyB on April 28, 2019, 08:21:49 PM
Thats why having a finite list is such a bad idea, but that doesn't make your statement true at the time of 2013/2014 though. Since then, this has been fixed.


If you think the Constitution I linked wasn't valid in 2013/2014, show me one that was valid.

Some in my book means less then half, otherwise you would say "half" or "most" but not "some". In the grand scheme of things, this means I am correct and you were not allowed to vote. BTW, there was no fear of death from Crimea->Mainland ukraine, yet you still could not vote.


A whole nation isn't going to stop functioning because a few people can't vote.

Pulling a moby on me? Moving the goalposts here. We were talking about crimes which could lead to his legal removal from the presidency, not things committed later.


Yanukovych committed the crime inviting Russian troops and police into Ukraine days after he fled Ukraine. Why are we still talking crimes that can be used for impeachment? The Rada didn't remove Yanukovych with impeachment. They removed Yanukovych with early elections that Yanukovych signed onto the day before he fled Ukraine.

https://www.theverge.com/2014/2/21/5433322/ukraine-president-opposition-sign-pact-for-reform
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 29, 2019, 01:22:34 AM
i think yanukovich signed early elections back in nov. 2013 before maidan got out of control. i will check the news from that time
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on April 29, 2019, 07:58:03 AM
We are far removed from matters regarding Stirlitz.

But anyways the first woman I dated from Russia her family owned a small hotel and some other rental properties on the Krym. They lost all of it when the Krym 'joined' Russia. Notwithstanding they were Russian. As well as Orthodox (Christian's) and Tartars.

So much for the rule of law in Putin's Russia.


Ah right, and you knew what went wrong and therefore its a Lawless country and Russias fault.

NS1 had a similar story and that amounted to 'forgetting' to register your properties with Russia after it joined Crimea.


Russia is the ultimate lawful country.

Well connected carpetbaggers are rewarded lawfully.  :-*

Since the family were builders going back to the Soviet period I believe they understood the ins and outs of the system. Further the uncle was present on the Krym before, during the Anschluss and after when the holdings were stripped from the family. I doubt it had little to do with paper work that was not filed correctly.

Whose family are you referring to? Are you writing on behalf of NS1?

Perhaps we should wait and let NS1 write for himself.

Up thread Stirlitz also lost some property, I’m sure Mark has a good excuse for that as well.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 29, 2019, 09:14:27 AM
Up thread Stirlitz also lost some property, I’m sure Mark has a good excuse for that as well.

I have no idea what happened to Stirlitz's properties. You can mock me all you what meanwhile but it doesn't change that new ownership of crimea means new rules and new administration. Failure to register said properties is a sure-fire way to loose them.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: msmoby on April 29, 2019, 09:53:04 AM



I have no idea what happened to Stirlitz's properties. You can mock me all you what meanwhile but it doesn't change that new ownership of crimea means new rules and new administration. Failure to register said properties is a sure-fire way to loose them.

I am nearly 100  perent certain that that 'new govt' of Crimea told everyone that Ikrainian owndership docs would suffice as proof of ownership and that Markje posted to that effect...

Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Manny on April 29, 2019, 12:58:31 PM
I have no idea what happened to Stirlitz's properties.

Indeed, and since his return, he hasn't been awfully communicative on the topic here............
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on April 29, 2019, 02:05:16 PM
Up thread Stirlitz also lost some property, I’m sure Mark has a good excuse for that as well.

I have no idea what happened to Stirlitz's properties. You can mock me all you what meanwhile but it doesn't change that new ownership of crimea means new rules and new administration. Failure to register said properties is a sure-fire way to loose them.


Save your blood-stained lies and propaganda for someone gullible enough to believe them or for your handlers back in Crimea.

The only “laws” that matter for Mr. Putin and cronies is who they believe should be rewarded for towing the party line.

Meanwhile 10,000 people and counting have lost their lives in Donbas and nearly 2 Million displaced persons due to the immoral Russian invasion of their neighbor.

Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 29, 2019, 02:41:49 PM
Up thread Stirlitz also lost some property, I’m sure Mark has a good excuse for that as well.

I have no idea what happened to Stirlitz's properties. You can mock me all you what meanwhile but it doesn't change that new ownership of crimea means new rules and new administration. Failure to register said properties is a sure-fire way to loose them.


Save your blood-stained lies and propaganda for someone gullible enough to believe them or for your handlers back in Crimea.

The only “laws” that matter for Mr. Putin and cronies is who they believe should be rewarded for towing the party line.

Meanwhile 10,000 people and counting have lost their lives in Donbas and nearly 2 Million displaced persons due to the immoral Russian invasion of their neighbor.

Yes, strange that, that the brunt of those 2 million chose to flee to Russia.

As to my so-called Handlers in Crimea  :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: you sure are funny.

Point in fact: None of my in-laws or people I am connected with in Crimea lost their properties, including a cripple who owns a very nice plot of land right at the black-sea in the middle of Evpatoria.

Now I am sure that the 20-30 oddball people in Crimea can't speak for the masses, but for me it shows that honest & willing administration was possible for many.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 29, 2019, 02:43:06 PM



I have no idea what happened to Stirlitz's properties. You can mock me all you what meanwhile but it doesn't change that new ownership of crimea means new rules and new administration. Failure to register said properties is a sure-fire way to loose them.

I am nearly 100  perent certain that that 'new govt' of Crimea told everyone that Ikrainian owndership docs would suffice as proof of ownership and that Markje posted to that effect...
Yes, I believed so too, as we were discussing some other claim of land lost.....

I thought that was NS1, but I could have been misstaken as he was rather prickly about that
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: andrewfi on April 30, 2019, 07:09:52 AM
I recall that, at the time, there were quite a few people who had property that they had never registered because they didn't actually have any right to it.

Under the previous regime that seemed to not be an issue for the authorities but the new government wanted to end the 'informal' property arrangements. Of course, it is easily understandable that people who had built homes or businesses on land to which they had no ownership rights were rather miffed when they found they could not rectify matters and that they'd blame anyone other than themselves for their self-inflicted predicament - this is normal human stuff.

Similar stuff used to happen in Spain and, quite often the current owners were, themselves, victims of people they'd bought real estate from. Of course, one can reasonably ask why the buyers did not check the legal situation at the time of purchase. In my opinion, these 'innocent victims' were complicit by dint of their choice to not look too closely at the gift horse they took possession of.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: msmoby on April 30, 2019, 10:13:44 AM
Andrewfi

When were you last on the peninsula?

Where do you get your 'info'?









Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on April 30, 2019, 11:48:42 AM
Andrew proving yet again that he’s never been to Ukraine, nor is he truly knowledgeable about Crimea.

I’ll take the word of a native Crimean over puffers Andy and Mark.

quote:
“Locals largely focus on different complaints. They invariably denigrate the new bureaucrats as carpetbaggers, using the word “varyagi” in Russian, an old word for Viking outsiders, especially when it comes to land confiscation.

The city of Sevastopol claims that it must repossess at least 10,000 plots to help create a rational development plan. The owners howl that the “mass land grab” will benefit crooked developers and senior officials who covet what when stitched together amounts to sprawling tracts of choice seaside property.

“Nobody thought it would be as bad, with issues emerging suddenly like the land plots,” said Roman Kiyashko, the burly Communist Party candidate for governor whose campaign slogan, “Your man from Sevastopol,” emphasized his native roots. “Russian officials act like an elephant in a china shop. They just implement their policies with no feedback.”


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/09/30/world/europe/crimea-annexation-russia-ukraine.amp.html
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 30, 2019, 01:00:18 PM
Andrew proving yet again that he’s never been to Ukraine, nor is he truly knowledgeable about Crimea.

I’ll take the word of a native Crimean over puffers Andy and Mark.

quote:
“Locals largely focus on different complaints. They invariably denigrate the new bureaucrats as carpetbaggers, using the word “varyagi” in Russian, an old word for Viking outsiders, especially when it comes to land confiscation.

The city of Sevastopol claims that it must repossess at least 10,000 plots to help create a rational development plan. The owners howl that the “mass land grab” will benefit crooked developers and senior officials who covet what when stitched together amounts to sprawling tracts of choice seaside property.

“Nobody thought it would be as bad, with issues emerging suddenly like the land plots,” said Roman Kiyashko, the burly Communist Party candidate for governor whose campaign slogan, “Your man from Sevastopol,” emphasized his native roots. “Russian officials act like an elephant in a china shop. They just implement their policies with no feedback.”


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/09/30/world/europe/crimea-annexation-russia-ukraine.amp.html

you do realise that i speak native crimeans weekly and my wife daily.

an article in pro western newspapers is just not believable.

i am in crimea july this year. boots in the mud etc.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on April 30, 2019, 01:19:55 PM
Andrew proving yet again that he’s never been to Ukraine, nor is he truly knowledgeable about Crimea.

I’ll take the word of a native Crimean over puffers Andy and Mark.

quote:
“Locals largely focus on different complaints. They invariably denigrate the new bureaucrats as carpetbaggers, using the word “varyagi” in Russian, an old word for Viking outsiders, especially when it comes to land confiscation.

The city of Sevastopol claims that it must repossess at least 10,000 plots to help create a rational development plan. The owners howl that the “mass land grab” will benefit crooked developers and senior officials who covet what when stitched together amounts to sprawling tracts of choice seaside property.

“Nobody thought it would be as bad, with issues emerging suddenly like the land plots,” said Roman Kiyashko, the burly Communist Party candidate for governor whose campaign slogan, “Your man from Sevastopol,” emphasized his native roots. “Russian officials act like an elephant in a china shop. They just implement their policies with no feedback.”


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/09/30/world/europe/crimea-annexation-russia-ukraine.amp.html

you do realise that i speak native crimeans weekly and my wife daily.

an article in pro western newspapers is just not believable.

i am in crimea july this year. boots in the mud etc.


So says you, the puffer.

How many people in Crimea would like to speak out but don’t for fear of being labeled an “enemy of the state” and unlawfully detained for life?

Human rights abuses of activists, isolation, unlawful movement and detainment.

http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1554002531
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: andrewfi on April 30, 2019, 01:43:06 PM
"detained for life"
Are you channeling moby these days?

Why are you just making stuff up?

You will never convince anyone by telling lies, it just doesn't work - whoops, sorry, I was wrong. You might convince people who know nothing and have no interest in knowing anything. Real people, nope, lies don't work on people who can think and learn. So, why do it here?
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on April 30, 2019, 02:11:31 PM
So says you, the puffer.

How many people in Crimea would like to speak out but don’t for fear of being labeled an “enemy of the state” and unlawfully detained for life?

Human rights abuses of activists, isolation, unlawful movement and detainment.

http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1554002531

Nobody is fearing anything, if you had been to russia, you'd know that.
Crimea is a whole different case, all people there have been living in Heaven for 5 years now, so nobody there would like to speak against Russia.

Where Crimea was the worst-performing state of Ukraine (economicly speaking) and investments were none, this has all changed.
People feel it in their wallet every day, so you can bet your ass off that everybody is in good report with Russia.
Every year I go there, I keep being amazed at the sheer amount of Russia flags, putin baubles and other pro-russian stuff.
You just can't make that stuff with surpressing the local people.

Mark.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: msmoby on April 30, 2019, 02:29:51 PM


Nobody is fearing anything, if you had been to russia, you'd know that.


I am sat with 4 of 'em and you are kidding yourself ....  I spend a LOT of time in the region that ajoins Crimea

A LOT of Russians question corruption from the top down....it is THE main issue in every Ivanov index survey of the Sberbank


Russian is seen by many as been run by an elite for the elite's benefit

Now you are being more than a mite disingenuous..



Crimea is a whole different case, all people there have been living in Heaven for 5 years now, so nobody there would like to speak against Russia.

'All'? 

I can name you people who lost their jobs, homes and had to pack up and live the peninsula for speaking out about injustice..


Where Crimea was the worst-performing state of Ukraine (economicly speaking) and investments were none, this has all changed.
People feel it in their wallet every day, so you can bet your ass off that everybody is in good report with Russia.
Every year I go there, I keep being amazed at the sheer amount of Russia flags, putin baubles and other pro-russian stuff.
You just can't make that stuff with surpressing the local people.

Mark.

Many businesses that closed have not reopened and despite your assurances, tourism is not anywhere near back to when Ukrainians flocked

Newsflash...many Russians do not trust Crimean's ..it has long had a reputation as being corrupt

Then there's the matter of Tatar land claims...that date back to Soviet times...

You are speaking on behalf of Eth. Russians..not the indigenous people or those that made their lives there while 60 years being undisputed part of Ukraine

Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on April 30, 2019, 05:34:35 PM
"detained for life"
Are you channeling moby these days?

Why are you just making stuff up?

You will never convince anyone by telling lies, it just doesn't work - whoops, sorry, I was wrong. You might convince people who know nothing and have no interest in knowing anything. Real people, nope, lies don't work on people who can think and learn. So, why do it here?

Mirror, mirror on the wall...
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: B.B. on May 01, 2019, 01:58:40 AM
I have no idea what happened to Stirlitz's properties.

Indeed, and since his return, he hasn't been awfully communicative on the topic here............

Probably because this has become a "Oh, but Russia totes didn't invade Crimea" gaslighting thread?  Yes, more of the usual.  :coffeeread:

B/B
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: andrewfi on May 01, 2019, 02:05:48 AM
Confederate, you are posting stuff that you made up as fact. That's dishonest, that's you, that's not me.

If you dislike the characterisation then stop lying. Simples!
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on May 01, 2019, 05:14:27 AM


Nobody is fearing anything, if you had been to russia, you'd know that.


I am sat with 4 of 'em and you are kidding yourself ....  I spend a LOT of time in the region that ajoins Crimea

A LOT of Russians question corruption from the top down....it is THE main issue in every Ivanov index survey of the Sberbank
Question is not the same as fear, i thought you were an english native speaker?

Quote
Crimea is a whole different case, all people there have been living in Heaven for 5 years now, so nobody there would like to speak against Russia.

'All'? 

I can name you people who lost their jobs, homes and had to pack up and live the peninsula for speaking out about injustice..
Let me explain the language used: , all people [currently living] there.

Note the 2 inserted words.
Quote

Where Crimea was the worst-performing state of Ukraine (economicly speaking) and investments were none, this has all changed.
People feel it in their wallet every day, so you can bet your ass off that everybody is in good report with Russia.
Every year I go there, I keep being amazed at the sheer amount of Russia flags, putin baubles and other pro-russian stuff.
You just can't make that stuff with surpressing the local people.

Mark.

Many businesses that closed have not reopened and despite your assurances, tourism is not anywhere near back to when Ukrainians flocked

You might want to check the numbers, last year was a record-breaking year for crimea, including times under ukrainian rule. This year will be even busier is the general expectation. All cheap/middle class hotels are booked solid and even the more luxurious ones are starting to sell out.

https://primechaniya.ru/home/news/aprel-2019/dorogo-no-otboya-net-krymu-prorochat-horoshij-kurortnyj-sezon/?fbclid=IwAR19aoeUkhiJ7Umb6-J1jDv5W98KUVTunUqolBpPOzOF9XQiu0pmUgctgoE

Quote
Newsflash...many Russians do not trust Crimean's ..it has long had a reputation as being corrupt
And who was adjudicator during that long time? and you speak of "had" as in past-tense, could it be that this slowly changed after 2014?

Quote
Then there's the matter of Tatar land claims...that date back to Soviet times...

You are speaking on behalf of Eth. Russians..not the indigenous people or those that made their lives there while 60 years being undisputed part of Ukraine
I speak for all people currently living in Crimea, including the Tatars. They are quite happy that they can now talk to the government in their native tongue instead of having to resort to Ukrainian. And there are more of such changes you fail to pick up every time Crimea is brought up. You are either someone suffering from Dementia or you simply do not want to hear how things changed for the better and cling to an abusive failed state that used to rule Crimea.

And since the change in 2014, Ukraine went further down the crapper, whose fault that is i will not expand on here in this topic.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on May 01, 2019, 08:02:17 AM


Nobody is fearing anything, if you had been to russia, you'd know that.


I am sat with 4 of 'em and you are kidding yourself ....  I spend a LOT of time in the region that ajoins Crimea

A LOT of Russians question corruption from the top down....it is THE main issue in every Ivanov index survey of the Sberbank
Question is not the same as fear, i thought you were an english native speaker?

Quote
Crimea is a whole different case, all people there have been living in Heaven for 5 years now, so nobody there would like to speak against Russia.

'All'? 

I can name you people who lost their jobs, homes and had to pack up and live the peninsula for speaking out about injustice..
Let me explain the language used: , all people [currently living] there.

Note the 2 inserted words.
Quote

Where Crimea was the worst-performing state of Ukraine (economicly speaking) and investments were none, this has all changed.
People feel it in their wallet every day, so you can bet your ass off that everybody is in good report with Russia.
Every year I go there, I keep being amazed at the sheer amount of Russia flags, putin baubles and other pro-russian stuff.
You just can't make that stuff with surpressing the local people.

Mark.

Many businesses that closed have not reopened and despite your assurances, tourism is not anywhere near back to when Ukrainians flocked

You might want to check the numbers, last year was a record-breaking year for crimea, including times under ukrainian rule. This year will be even busier is the general expectation. All cheap/middle class hotels are booked solid and even the more luxurious ones are starting to sell out.

https://primechaniya.ru/home/news/aprel-2019/dorogo-no-otboya-net-krymu-prorochat-horoshij-kurortnyj-sezon/?fbclid=IwAR19aoeUkhiJ7Umb6-J1jDv5W98KUVTunUqolBpPOzOF9XQiu0pmUgctgoE

Quote
Newsflash...many Russians do not trust Crimean's ..it has long had a reputation as being corrupt
And who was adjudicator during that long time? and you speak of "had" as in past-tense, could it be that this slowly changed after 2014?

Quote
Then there's the matter of Tatar land claims...that date back to Soviet times...

You are speaking on behalf of Eth. Russians..not the indigenous people or those that made their lives there while 60 years being undisputed part of Ukraine
I speak for all people currently living in Crimea, including the Tatars. They are quite happy that they can now talk to the government in their native tongue instead of having to resort to Ukrainian. And there are more of such changes you fail to pick up every time Crimea is brought up. You are either someone suffering from Dementia or you simply do not want to hear how things changed for the better and cling to an abusive failed state that used to rule Crimea.

And since the change in 2014, Ukraine went further down the crapper, whose fault that is i will not expand on here in this topic.

More bold faced lies from puffer Mark.

Tatar’s are decidedly NOT happy with the Russian occupation.

The main reason they arrested him is that he is a Crimean Tatar,” Bekirova says of her father, who is not allowed visits or calls from relatives. “It’s possible that his arrest had something to do with my mother being a member of the Mejlis [the Crimean Tatar assembly] or because I work for the Crimean Tatar television station ATR, which tells people what’s going on in Crimea.

“But above all I think Russia wants to use him as an example to scare the entire Crimean Tatar people – to show that even someone who has had a leg amputated and has diabetes and serious heart problems can be arrested and held in such conditions
.”


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/crimean-tatars-stand-firm-against-russian-occupation-of-homeland-1.3811335%3fmode=amp
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: AvHdB on May 01, 2019, 08:20:45 AM
While the link below is over a year old it defines many of the issues that are at play on the Krim.



https://jamestown.org/program/ukraines-everest-estate-llc-v-russia-about-more-than-money/
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on May 01, 2019, 09:02:43 AM

More bold faced lies from puffer Mark.

Tatar’s are decidedly NOT happy with the Russian occupation.

The main reason they arrested him is that he is a Crimean Tatar,” Bekirova says of her father, who is not allowed visits or calls from relatives. “It’s possible that his arrest had something to do with my mother being a member of the Mejlis [the Crimean Tatar assembly] or because I work for the Crimean Tatar television station ATR, which tells people what’s going on in Crimea.

“But above all I think Russia wants to use him as an example to scare the entire Crimean Tatar people – to show that even someone who has had a leg amputated and has diabetes and serious heart problems can be arrested and held in such conditions
.”


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/crimean-tatars-stand-firm-against-russian-occupation-of-homeland-1.3811335%3fmode=amp
You do realise that he is not only a Tatar, but also a terrorist, right?

Terrorists are a whole different ballgame from normal people.

No, I do not speak for terrorists, who are also currently not living inside Crimea. (And quite frankly, I couldn' care less about terrorists rights ).
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on May 01, 2019, 09:20:27 AM

More bold faced lies from puffer Mark.

Tatar’s are decidedly NOT happy with the Russian occupation.

The main reason they arrested him is that he is a Crimean Tatar,” Bekirova says of her father, who is not allowed visits or calls from relatives. “It’s possible that his arrest had something to do with my mother being a member of the Mejlis [the Crimean Tatar assembly] or because I work for the Crimean Tatar television station ATR, which tells people what’s going on in Crimea.

“But above all I think Russia wants to use him as an example to scare the entire Crimean Tatar people – to show that even someone who has had a leg amputated and has diabetes and serious heart problems can be arrested and held in such conditions
.”


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/crimean-tatars-stand-firm-against-russian-occupation-of-homeland-1.3811335%3fmode=amp
You do realise that he is not only a Tatar, but also a terrorist, right?

Terrorists are a whole different ballgame from normal people.

No, I do not speak for terrorists, who are also currently not living inside Crimea. (And quite frankly, I couldn' care less about terrorists rights ).


He’s not even remotely a terrorist, this was an obvious setup and frame job by Putin’s FSB to terrorize the Crimean Tatar’s into total submission.

Stop telling bold-faced lies Mark. The Russian authorities will stop at nothing to silence dissenters, but the Tatar’s and others can see the obvious truths.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on May 01, 2019, 11:29:48 AM

More bold faced lies from puffer Mark.

Tatar’s are decidedly NOT happy with the Russian occupation.

The main reason they arrested him is that he is a Crimean Tatar,” Bekirova says of her father, who is not allowed visits or calls from relatives. “It’s possible that his arrest had something to do with my mother being a member of the Mejlis [the Crimean Tatar assembly] or because I work for the Crimean Tatar television station ATR, which tells people what’s going on in Crimea.

“But above all I think Russia wants to use him as an example to scare the entire Crimean Tatar people – to show that even someone who has had a leg amputated and has diabetes and serious heart problems can be arrested and held in such conditions
.”


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/crimean-tatars-stand-firm-against-russian-occupation-of-homeland-1.3811335%3fmode=amp
You do realise that he is not only a Tatar, but also a terrorist, right?

Terrorists are a whole different ballgame from normal people.

No, I do not speak for terrorists, who are also currently not living inside Crimea. (And quite frankly, I couldn' care less about terrorists rights ).


He’s not even remotely a terrorist, this was an obvious setup and frame job by Putin’s FSB to terrorize the Crimean Tatar’s into total submission.

Stop telling bold-faced lies Mark. The Russian authorities will stop at nothing to silence dissenters, but the Tatar’s and others can see the obvious truths.

if you believe that i will not continue this discussion. its pointless
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: cufflinks on May 01, 2019, 12:25:50 PM
Incredible that Igor after 8 years and a full tour of military duty comes back as a much more serious and mature man looking to see if there is any consulting potential here at RUA, for example, translations, discreet background inquiries of potential UA Brides or just a savvy local friend to make visits more accommodative - and - his last post on this thread was on page two and the rest a bunch of egoists who could give a damn about Igor and how he is doing posting typical RU versus UA bollox.  Next you will accuse each other of drinking your bloody Orange Juice.

The Area 51 members will know of what OJ I am speaking.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on May 01, 2019, 01:34:34 PM

More bold faced lies from puffer Mark.

Tatar’s are decidedly NOT happy with the Russian occupation.

The main reason they arrested him is that he is a Crimean Tatar,” Bekirova says of her father, who is not allowed visits or calls from relatives. “It’s possible that his arrest had something to do with my mother being a member of the Mejlis [the Crimean Tatar assembly] or because I work for the Crimean Tatar television station ATR, which tells people what’s going on in Crimea.

“But above all I think Russia wants to use him as an example to scare the entire Crimean Tatar people – to show that even someone who has had a leg amputated and has diabetes and serious heart problems can be arrested and held in such conditions
.”


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/crimean-tatars-stand-firm-against-russian-occupation-of-homeland-1.3811335%3fmode=amp
You do realise that he is not only a Tatar, but also a terrorist, right?

Terrorists are a whole different ballgame from normal people.

No, I do not speak for terrorists, who are also currently not living inside Crimea. (And quite frankly, I couldn' care less about terrorists rights ).


He’s not even remotely a terrorist, this was an obvious setup and frame job by Putin’s FSB to terrorize the Crimean Tatar’s into total submission.

Stop telling bold-faced lies Mark. The Russian authorities will stop at nothing to silence dissenters, but the Tatar’s and others can see the obvious truths.

if you believe that i will not continue this discussion. its pointless

Pointless for you because you live in an alternate reality Universe.

It’s not pointless for astute readers. I suggest they also read the link AvHdB posted just upthread.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on May 01, 2019, 01:35:50 PM
Incredible that Igor after 8 years and a full tour of military duty comes back as a much more serious and mature man looking to see if there is any consulting potential here at RUA, for example, translations, discreet background inquiries of potential UA Brides or just a savvy local friend to make visits more accommodative - and - his last post on this thread was on page two and the rest a bunch of egoists who could give a damn about Igor and how he is doing posting typical RU versus UA bollox.  Next you will accuse each other of drinking your bloody Orange Juice.

The Area 51 members will know of what OJ I am speaking.


Let Stirlitz speak for himself, or better yet repost his entire post.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: NS1 on May 01, 2019, 01:53:05 PM
What happened here, happens on 95% of most threads.
People arguing. Whats funny is the same cast of characters
every time. A smart fellow would realize this and stop.

Most argue until tired, then wait for next thread and start over.
Same shit different topic. But if you wait, the topics gets repeated.
Kyrm was argued to point of nausea, Died off and here we are again
Same people  arguing the same  thing. I believe there is an expression
for this sort of thing.

Definition of insanity. :)
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on May 01, 2019, 03:41:15 PM
What happened here, happens on 95% of most threads.
People arguing. Whats funny is the same cast of characters
every time. A smart fellow would realize this and stop.

Most argue until tired, then wait for next thread and start over.
Same shit different topic. But if you wait, the topics gets repeated.
Kyrm was argued to point of nausea, Died off and here we are again
Same people  arguing the same  thing. I believe there is an expression
for this sort of thing.

Definition of insanity. :)

So then why don’t you stay out of the thread. You obviously don’t have the moral fiber and stamina to fight verbally or in writing for those who’ve had their lands stolen and are in prison suffering human rights abuses.

Be like 2tall and start a bikini models thread. Stay out of threads requiring a moral backbone.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on May 01, 2019, 03:46:25 PM
The reality of Tatar’s opinion and resistance to RF occupation of their historic homeland:

“Ukraine lists Bekirov as one of more than 70 of its citizens who are political prisoners in Russian-run jails.

About half are members of a Crimean Tatar community that fiercely opposes Russia’s annexation of their homeland, which began five years ago when “little green men” seized state buildings and strategic sites across the Black Sea peninsula..

These Russian soldiers without insignia established de facto Kremlin control over Crimea, and prepared it for a referendum on March 16th, 2014, which Moscow claims legitimised its occupation of a region twice the size of Northern Ireland.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/crimean-tatars-stand-firm-against-russian-occupation-of-homeland-1.3811335%3fmode=amp
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on May 01, 2019, 06:50:19 PM
On the theft of the property of ordinary citizens as well as others.

“In Yalta, one land confiscation ended in tragedy after the longtime owner of a beachfront cafe discovered that it had been demolished and the cafe contract awarded to a different, anonymous developer. He committed suicide by setting himself on fire in a city park last September.

Oligarchs and other wealthy businessmen, mostly Ukrainian, lost billions of dollars in properties expropriated after annexation. But the land fight in Sevastopol seems to affect mostly ordinary people like retired teachers and navy veterans.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/09/30/world/europe/crimea-annexation-russia-ukraine.amp.html
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: cufflinks on May 01, 2019, 09:45:53 PM
Incredible that Igor after 8 years and a full tour of military duty comes back as a much more serious and mature man looking to see if there is any consulting potential here at RUA, for example, translations, discreet background inquiries of potential UA Brides or just a savvy local friend to make visits more accommodative - and - his last post on this thread was on page two and the rest a bunch of egoists who could give a damn about Igor and how he is doing posting typical RU versus UA bollox.  Next you will accuse each other of drinking your bloody Orange Juice.

The Area 51 members will know of what OJ I am speaking.


Let Stirlitz speak for himself, or better yet repost his entire post.

I consider Igor a friend and you all are deliberately shiteing all over his re-intro thread - show some bloody class. Plenty of other threads for RU vs UA bull bollux... you savvy kee moe sabie?  5 Pages of horse manure since Igor's last post in this topic was completely uncalled for.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on May 01, 2019, 11:40:15 PM
Thank you. Not so good as five/ten years ago. The Crimea is lost and a lot of business with it too as well as my life style and some property there. But it’s life. I guess I am still luckier than certain Syrians. No bombing and gas attacks from Russian planes so far. One thing is for certain, I spend more time with my wife now that I no longer shuttle between Odessa and the Crimea. And I’m a different person. I am tougher and more determined now. I was in the army and got my own AKM at home now. I don’t give up.

No bombing and gas attacks from Russian planes so far.


That’s a pretty revealing statement from a young man who knows that a large part of his country was stolen by military force and another part is still under occupation as the bully from the East attempts to Balkanize his country.
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on May 03, 2019, 08:00:59 AM
Russia boycotts International Tribune on Ukrainian sailors, what a surprise! Not.

Ukraine has turned to the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) over Russia’s seizure of three Ukrainian naval vessels and their crew.  Critical hearings are due on 10-11 May into Ukraine’s application for provisional measures to get the 24 men released.  Russia has a long track record of flouting international rulings and has just announced that it will not attend the open hearings on 10 May.  This ruling will, however, matter and Moscow is currently endeavouring to ‘prove’ that ITLOS does not have jurisdiction over the case.  Russia could  checkmate itself since one of the reasons why the Tribunal would decide it does not have jurisdiction is if it was proven that this was part of military conflict, which Russia has every reason to deny.


http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1556452166
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Confederate on May 03, 2019, 09:00:03 AM
The Crimean economy is heavy militarized and dominated by a elite group criminals according to this article.


https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_crimea_russias_newest_potemkin_village
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: Markje on May 03, 2019, 11:26:07 AM
The Crimean economy is heavy militarized and dominated by a elite group criminals according to this article.


https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_crimea_russias_newest_potemkin_village

the crimean economy is tourism front and center. anyone with a brain couldve foreseen that
Title: Re: Stirlitz Returns to RUA
Post by: cufflinks on May 15, 2019, 01:42:20 PM
Bumping and sharing this info in various Ukraine Centric Threads:

   U.S. Embassy is looking for new Wardens:

Dear Friends:

The American Citizen Services unit is in the process of rebuilding our network of Wardens to ensure that we are able to communicate as effectively as possible with U.S. citizens in the event of an emergency. We are looking for volunteers to serve as Wardens in various regions of Ukraine. If you think you or someone you know may be interested, or you just want to learn more - let us know!

Wardens are private citizens who help the Embassy help U.S. citizens in need.  They assist travelers in distress, help us track down missing U.S. citizens, and, in the event of a natural disaster or other emergency, help us locate other American citizens so we can help get them to safety.  Most often, however, Wardens are called on to be our ‘eyes and ears’ in the community, providing valuable feedback on what life is like for ordinary U.S. citizens in every corner of Ukraine. Wardens are usually American citizens who are longer-term residents of Ukraine and, ideally, speak some Ukrainian or Russian. Please note that this is a voluntary position that does not imply financial reimbursement.

We need wardens in major cities like Chernivtsi, Dnipropetrovsk, Ivano-Frankivsk, Cherkasy, Kherson, Khmelnytsky, Lviv, Kropyvnytskyi, Mykolaiv, Poltava, Rivne, Sumy, Ternopil, Uzhgorod, Vinnytsya, Zaporizhzhya, Zhytomyr, Volyn, and Odesa. Wardens in smaller cities and rural areas are also uniquely important because those can be the hardest places for us to reach in an emergency.

If you would like to be our Warden, please provide us with your full name, DOB, passport number and your contact details via email at  KyivACS@.... Once you notify us of your interest, we’ll get back to you with further instructions.

Best regards,

American Citizen Services | Consular Section

U.S. Embassy | 4 Igor Sikorsky St., Kyiv 04112, Ukraine

Tel (380-44) 521 – 5566 | Fax (380-44) 521 – 5544