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Information & Chat About the Former Soviet Union => The Expatriate Life: Living in the Former Soviet Union => Topic started by: MND on August 15, 2010, 09:56:22 AM

Title: Cost of living in Ukraine
Post by: MND on August 15, 2010, 09:56:22 AM
Has the cost of living in Ukraine gotten out of control.

Nat has been there for 6 weeks now and she says the cost of everything has now gotten ridiculous bread, milk, potatoes, bus fares, taxis, electricity, gas etc is up by at least 200% if not more compared to this time last year.
She says many people in her town just can not afford to pay the un-stopable price hikes on everything that are currently going on overthere especially on basic food items she says familys that live in the cities and dont grow there own food are really struggling at the moment.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Manny on August 15, 2010, 12:03:14 PM
gas etc is up by at least 200% if not more compared to this time last year.

Isn't that because Ukraine was stealing gas from Russia's pipelines last year and now it is paying it back via a price increase?
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Voyager on August 15, 2010, 01:42:16 PM
gas etc is up by at least 200% if not more compared to this time last year.

Isn't that because Ukraine was stealing gas from Russia's pipelines last year and now it is paying it back via a price increase?

No, I think it was because they were getting a cut-rate deal from Russia before, but gas & oil are now moving up to market prices.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Manny on August 15, 2010, 01:45:05 PM
gas etc is up by at least 200% if not more compared to this time last year.

Isn't that because Ukraine was stealing gas from Russia's pipelines last year and now it is paying it back via a price increase?

No, I think it was because they were getting a cut-rate deal from Russia before, but gas & oil are now moving up to market prices.

Oh, is that the official line?  :chuckle:

Quote
"The Ukrainian side openly admits it is stealing gas and is not ashamed of this," Gazprom spokesman Sergei Kupriyanov said.

Quote
Alexei Miller, CEO of Gazprom, said on Thursday he wanted Ukraine to pay $418 per 1,000 cubic metres (tcm) of gas, compared with the $179.5 Kiev paid in 2008. Ukraine says the most it can afford to pay is $235.

Source (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-accuses-ukraine-of-stealing-gas-1222272.html)
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ecocks on August 15, 2010, 01:59:11 PM
gas etc is up by at least 200% if not more compared to this time last year.

Isn't that because Ukraine was stealing gas from Russia's pipelines last year and now it is paying it back via a price increase?

No, I think it was because they were getting a cut-rate deal from Russia before, but gas & oil are now moving up to market prices.

Oh, is that the official line?  :chuckle:

Quote
"The Ukrainian side openly admits it is stealing gas and is not ashamed of this," Gazprom spokesman Sergei Kupriyanov said.

Quote
Alexei Miller, CEO of Gazprom, said on Thursday he wanted Ukraine to pay $418 per 1,000 cubic metres (tcm) of gas, compared with the $179.5 Kiev paid in 2008. Ukraine says the most it can afford to pay is $235.

Source (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-accuses-ukraine-of-stealing-gas-1222272.html)

Well that was Gazprom's official line at least. Ukraine's official version was that they were holding a reserve for leakage and interruptions. Still it's not like any of that was being stolen and used by the average citizen. Just as so many of the Russian firefighting planes were leased out to other countries when they were needed, some oligarch was probably profiteering by selling off the reserves. It happens.

My understanding in Ukraine is that prices on groceries are up but have been stable for the last few months and housing is still at a 5-7 year low. Utility prices are rising rapidly as the IMF requirements for reduced subsidies on utilities are implemented. Gasoline prices are rising as well.

Not too surprising given their government and the fatalistic stoicism of the population. It's easy to see why the Holodomar happened since they apparently just intend to follow, herd-like, in whatever direction the government tells them. Starvation, inflation, unemployment, forzen pensions, uncontrolled heating, no hot water for weeks at a time, if the government tells them it MUST be done then so be it.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: JeanClaude on August 15, 2010, 05:43:57 PM
Quote
Not too surprising given their government and the fatalistic stoicism of the population. It's easy to see why the Holodomar happened since they apparently just intend to follow, herd-like, in whatever direction the government tells them.

Other then peacefull protest, i dont see much difference in any other country in the West
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: andrewfi on August 16, 2010, 01:23:29 AM
Quote
Not too surprising given their government and the fatalistic stoicism of the population. It's easy to see why the Holodomar happened since they apparently just intend to follow, herd-like, in whatever direction the government tells them.

Other then peacefull protest, i dont see much difference in any other country in the West

Is true.

But yes, I think we can safely discount the observations of our 'on the ground observer' if that observer is noting 200% increases in prices of food.
Ukraine consumer price inflation in 2009 was, as I recall, about 16% and is budgeted to be around 9% for 2010. So, prices will have gone up noticeably and some people's incomes will have fallen but there is no hyperinflation in Ukraine (often suggested to be cumulative 100% over 3 years).
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: TrevorM on August 16, 2010, 03:14:36 AM
During this year's annual sojourn to the Crimea to visit wifey's parents, it seemed to use that food prices were pretty similar to the UK, petrol half the price (but that's down to our thieving government and the amount of tax they put on it) and wifey bought a winter coat for £140, which again would be similar to the UK for the same quality.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: MND on August 16, 2010, 04:48:59 AM
Nat says that in her town south west of Ukraine everything has gone up between 2 to 4 times the price it was this time last year property is cheap but food, clothing, postage and many other things have skyrocketed.
So dont believe everything you read that Ukraines inflation is aroun 9-16% as she is there now and can see the difference its alot more than that.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: andrewfi on August 16, 2010, 09:36:27 AM
OK, here's a simple sanity check for you. ;)

How much, and in what direction, has the Ukraine/Euro exchange rate shifted in the past 12 months?

If the Hryvna is now worth about 25% of what it was a year ago then your on the ground observer might be right. if less then she is not. This is simple. Exchange rates are about the relative price of money. If Ukraine has had 200% inflation (hyperinflation) then the exchange rate will have plummeted against the Eurozone where inflation is pretty low.

This is because if it takes 4 hryvnia to buy what cost 1 hryvnia one year ago then the value of the currency to investors and banks using, for example, the Euro will have fallen by the same kind of amount and so the exchange rate will have tumbled, assuming all else is equal.

Simples.

Here, to save me looking further is a piece from Wikipedia about Hryvnia/US Dollar. Not such a good comparison as the US DOES have inflation and the dollar is pretty volatile at the moment but you can see that in the period in question the ratio was actually pretty firm. Thus we can know that inflation is NOT at the levels suggested by our on the ground observer.

Quote
In the period from 21 April 2005 through 21 October 2008 the official exchange rate remained stable at around UAH 5/USD 1. Since then, the hryvnia abruptly lost one-third of its value, dropping to around UAH 7.5/USD 1 by mid-December 2008.[3] The hryvnia remained relatively stable through most of the first half of 2009, being valued at roughly 7.5-8 UAH/USD 1 over this period.[7] However, the hryvnia began a gradual depreciation in the 3rd quarter of 2009 to reach just under 9 UAH/USD by September, although this was followed by a quick appreciation to around 8.25 UAH/USD by the start of October.[7] Through the 4th quarter of 2009 and the start of 2010, the value of the hryvnia has held relatively steady at approximately 8.0-8.25 UAH/USD.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_hryvnia#Exchange_rates
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: MND on August 16, 2010, 10:39:12 AM
It does not matter what the stats say on the internet my wifes family has been saying it for months now how everything has skyrocketed and Nat has been there now for 6 weeks and she confirmed it.
Be interesting to see what Chris says as i think he is over there at moment or not far away from travelling over, his wifes town is about 80KM 's away from Nats town.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: WestCoast on August 16, 2010, 11:26:09 AM
Andrew's explanation for price increases is a good generic explanation of of why costs rise but there can be other reasons that have little or nothing to do with exchange rates.  For example if the town that Schastlivyj's wife lives in is small and/or off the main transportation links costs will be higher and fluctuate more than costs in the main cities.  Any disruption in the transportation is going to be felt more intensely and sooner because of the limited access to the area.  If the town has unexpected increases in population or excessive demands for goods prices are going to increase dramatically.  

Lets also not forget about corruption in Ukraine.  Ukraine is not just corrupt it is the most corrupt country in its region (43/43) and one of the most corrupt countries in the world (162/179).  To give some reference as to how corrupt the 2010 Heritage Foundation - Wall Street Journal Index views corruption in Ukraine, it ranks Ukraine as "repressed" its most severe rating.  This rating is so bad that it is reserved for countries such as Libya, Burma, Liberia, Iran and North Korea and others.  All in all if the price increases can't be explained by normal economic indicators it's probably a good chance that corruption is to blame, which means that there is little the citizens in the area can do to lower prices.    

http://www.heritage.org/index/Ranking.aspx
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: bagalia on August 16, 2010, 12:07:57 PM
OK, I am not especially bright on the economics side but this question has bothered me for a couple of years now and I think I am finally seeing the answer.

I agree with all the info on the rise and fall of the griven. When the rate went from 5 to around 9 we got hit hard by Target as our business rental contract specified the equivalent of dollars. Our rent shot up almost double. The rates they talk about in wiki are correct (of course).

At the same time it is also true that most all prices in Kharkiv have gone up. Grammy is upset that her favorite candy went from 4 to 6 griven. The cost of everything seems to have gone up like that.

So I was always wondering why the dollar was jumping around in other places but staying level more or less in Ukraine. My Laura said it was corruption with the banks and others at that level. I also remember that some time ago there was a bank scandal with price fixing but I do not think the solution really fixed anything. I always thought the currency rates were pegged from an international level.

So I guess the answer is that there is a mix of currency manipulation by the banks along with a general upward trend in the market prices probably based on a downturn on profits due to the bad economy and maybe a bit of corruption also.

Scott
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Jinx on August 18, 2010, 06:41:59 PM
 Nataly has told me the same thing, the cost of almost everything has gone up dramatically. She's been there over a month now and can't even see how people can survive on what they make compared to what things cost. The price of meat and fruit is especially ridiculous, she says it's 3-4 times higher than in California but I don't know how accurate that is.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: MND on August 19, 2010, 12:25:10 AM
Nataly has told me the same thing, the cost of almost everything has gone up dramatically. She's been there over a month now and can't even see how people can survive on what they make compared to what things cost. The price of meat and fruit is especially ridiculous, she says it's 3-4 times higher than in California but I don't know how accurate that is.

No She is right Nat says the same 3-4 x more dearer than Aus as well
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: erudite on August 24, 2010, 10:55:07 AM
My fiancee lives in Kharkiv and she tells me on SKYPE today that I would not imagine how things are in Ukraine now.  I was there June and will return in September/October. She is very concerned about the country and the future. She is very glad to be coming to America but of course she will always love Ukraine as any native would. She said crime is rampant and increasing. Her apartment building has been robbed four times in the past month, prices are up on everything there enough to concern her, especially with food items.  But on the other hand like any typical Ukraine woman, she bought some new shoes for my visit.

All of the Ukraine people I have met on my trips there have had a common negative but stoic attitude about thier country. They love it and hate it at the same time. I think it is much the same in America but at least we do not live in a dog eat dog economy, struggling from day to day.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Muzh_1 on August 24, 2010, 11:41:25 AM
Something's gotta give and I believe it's going to be soon.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ECR844 on August 24, 2010, 12:23:19 PM
My fiancee lives in Kharkiv and she tells me on SKYPE today that I would not imagine how things are in Ukraine now.  I was there June and will return in September/October. She is very concerned about the country and the future. She is very glad to be coming to America but of course she will always love Ukraine as any native would. She said crime is rampant and increasing. Her apartment building has been robbed four times in the past month, prices are up on everything there enough to concern her, especially with food items.  But on the other hand like any typical Ukraine woman, she bought some new shoes for my visit.

All of the Ukraine people I have met on my trips there have had a common negative but stoic attitude about thier country. They love it and hate it at the same time. I think it is much the same in America but at least we do not live in a dog eat dog economy, struggling from day to day.
:offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic:
Congrats "erudite" to you and your lucky lady on your engagement!!

 :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic:
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ptgarner1 on August 24, 2010, 12:32:21 PM
First it is silly to compare the grivna to the Euro. The Euro has plummeted with the sovereign debt crisis of Greece/Pigs.
   I was in Yalta in July and did grocery shop several times. While exact items are difficult to find, I thought the price of food was comparable to Little Rock Arkansas. Which  of course
means that due to the lower earnings..it is a dire situation. To eat off of $100 a month (US) per person would be dreary.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ecocks on August 24, 2010, 02:25:27 PM
My fiancee lives in Kharkiv and she tells me on SKYPE today that I would not imagine how things are in Ukraine now.  I was there June and will return in September/October. She is very concerned about the country and the future. She is very glad to be coming to America but of course she will always love Ukraine as any native would. She said crime is rampant and increasing. Her apartment building has been robbed four times in the past month, prices are up on everything there enough to concern her, especially with food items.  But on the other hand like any typical Ukraine woman, she bought some new shoes for my visit.

All of the Ukraine people I have met on my trips there have had a common negative but stoic attitude about their country. They love it and hate it at the same time. I think it is much the same in America but at least we do not live in a dog eat dog economy, struggling from day to day.

A very real concern is that there will be a return to the home invasion incidents of the 90's. Those apartment doors are built that way (multiple locks and steel cores) for a reason. At least they almost always open outward which is good for security but awful for being trapped inside.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: JeanClaude on August 24, 2010, 03:34:33 PM
My fiancee lives in Kharkiv and she tells me on SKYPE today that I would not imagine how things are in Ukraine now.  I was there June and will return in September/October. She is very concerned about the country and the future. She is very glad to be coming to America but of course she will always love Ukraine as any native would. She said crime is rampant and increasing. Her apartment building has been robbed four times in the past month, prices are up on everything there enough to concern her, especially with food items.  But on the other hand like any typical Ukraine woman, she bought some new shoes for my visit.

All of the Ukraine people I have met on my trips there have had a common negative but stoic attitude about their country. They love it and hate it at the same time. I think it is much the same in America but at least we do not live in a dog eat dog economy, struggling from day to day.

A very real concern is that there will be a return to the home invasion incidents of the 90's. Those apartment doors are built that way (multiple locks and steel cores) for a reason. At least they almost always open outward which is good for security but awful for being trapped inside.

Hey, that actually happened to my appartment, (Nikolayev),  The doorframe was completely destroyed, I didnt miss anything though everything important I had with me.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: JeanClaude on August 24, 2010, 03:42:03 PM
Something's gotta give and I believe it's going to be soon.

Jim Rogers was right again, buy farming stocks!!!!
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ecocks on August 24, 2010, 04:07:42 PM
Something's gotta give and I believe it's going to be soon.

Jim Rogers was right again, buy farming stocks!!!!

Ammo, water purification tablets, bicycles and dried foods.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: WestCoast on August 24, 2010, 04:28:08 PM
Something's gotta give and I believe it's going to be soon.

Jim Rogers was right again, buy farming stocks!!!!

Ammo, water purification tablets, bicycles and dried foods.

Also vegetable seed and a few chickens, goats, cows etc on a farm in the more rural mountains of Idaho? Or BC there are some nice places in the interior of BC, someplace where the nuclear radiation isn't likely to reach but still has high speed Internet. 


                                  (http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7jDWR5MFIalpxWK5oPssYLlIK-zBTdoFdw4KqMg-4Z6tmeGY&t=1&usg=__MPjKTrsvnCQj53PR9X0N194L-Zc=)
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ecocks on August 24, 2010, 05:31:25 PM
Something's gotta give and I believe it's going to be soon.

Jim Rogers was right again, buy farming stocks!!!!

Ammo, water purification tablets, bicycles and dried foods.

Also vegetable seed and a few chickens, goats, cows etc on a farm in the more rural mountains of Idaho? Or BC there are some nice places in the interior of BC, someplace where the nuclear radiation isn't likely to reach but still has high speed Internet. 


                                  (http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7jDWR5MFIalpxWK5oPssYLlIK-zBTdoFdw4KqMg-4Z6tmeGY&t=1&usg=__MPjKTrsvnCQj53PR9X0N194L-Zc=)

MORE(?) rural mountains of Idaho?

How rural you want them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawtooth_Range_(Idaho)
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: WestCoast on August 24, 2010, 05:50:22 PM
Something's gotta give and I believe it's going to be soon.

Jim Rogers was right again, buy farming stocks!!!!

Ammo, water purification tablets, bicycles and dried foods.

Also vegetable seed and a few chickens, goats, cows etc on a farm in the more rural mountains of Idaho? Or BC there are some nice places in the interior of BC, someplace where the nuclear radiation isn't likely to reach but still has high speed Internet. 


                                  (http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7jDWR5MFIalpxWK5oPssYLlIK-zBTdoFdw4KqMg-4Z6tmeGY&t=1&usg=__MPjKTrsvnCQj53PR9X0N194L-Zc=)

MORE(?) rural mountains of Idaho?

How rural you want them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawtooth_Range_(Idaho)

Very similar to their Rocky Mountain counterparts in BC. 
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: dazzer on August 25, 2010, 12:17:05 PM
A very real concern is that there will be a return to the home invasion incidents of the 90's. Those apartment doors are built that way (multiple locks and steel cores) for a reason. At least they almost always open outward which is good for security but awful for being trapped inside.

I have wondered as to why every apartment i have rented had huge front steel doors fitted, can you explain what was "the home invasion incidents of the 90's"?
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ecocks on August 25, 2010, 12:50:54 PM
A very real concern is that there will be a return to the home invasion incidents of the 90's. Those apartment doors are built that way (multiple locks and steel cores) for a reason. At least they almost always open outward which is good for security but awful for being trapped inside.

I have wondered as to why every apartment i have rented had huge front steel doors fitted, can you explain what was "the home invasion incidents of the 90's"?

Yeah, guys were busting in doors and ransacking apartments during the chaos of the post-perestroika period. As bad as anything experienced in American cities reporting problems although without the guns it is mostly beatings rather than shootings if it happened when you were home.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: dazzer on August 25, 2010, 01:04:24 PM
Yeah, guys were busting in doors and ransacking apartments during the chaos of the post-perestroika period. As bad as anything experienced in American cities reporting problems although without the guns it is mostly beatings rather than shootings if it happened when you were home.

Why were guys ransacking apartments ecocks?
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: JeanClaude on August 25, 2010, 01:31:27 PM
Yeah, guys were busting in doors and ransacking apartments during the chaos of the post-perestroika period. As bad as anything experienced in American cities reporting problems although without the guns it is mostly beatings rather than shootings if it happened when you were home.

Why were guys ransacking apartments ecocks?

Collecting taxes, but not necessarily for the government))
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ecocks on August 25, 2010, 02:18:37 PM
Yeah, guys were busting in doors and ransacking apartments during the chaos of the post-perestroika period. As bad as anything experienced in American cities reporting problems although without the guns it is mostly beatings rather than shootings if it happened when you were home.

Why were guys ransacking apartments ecocks?

Theft? You couldn't figure that out?
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ecocks on August 25, 2010, 02:19:20 PM
Yeah, guys were busting in doors and ransacking apartments during the chaos of the post-perestroika period. As bad as anything experienced in American cities reporting problems although without the guns it is mostly beatings rather than shootings if it happened when you were home.

Why were guys ransacking apartments ecocks?

Collecting taxes, but not necessarily for the government))


Sometimes you are useful, like when we need a chuckle.....
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: JeanClaude on August 25, 2010, 02:32:50 PM
Just called a good friend of mine and talked about the cost of living,  prices have gone up a bit, sure, but certainly not "out of control"
==
Now your fiancee might be painting a worse then reality picture as reading your posting, I get the feeling she is very willing to come to the US.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: JeanClaude on August 25, 2010, 02:34:23 PM
Yeah, guys were busting in doors and ransacking apartments during the chaos of the post-perestroika period. As bad as anything experienced in American cities reporting problems although without the guns it is mostly beatings rather than shootings if it happened when you were home.

Why were guys ransacking apartments ecocks?

Collecting taxes, but not necessarily for the government))


Sometimes you are useful, like when we need a chuckle.....

Yeah, I love statism too  :D
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: dazzer on August 25, 2010, 02:52:52 PM
Why were guys ransacking apartments ecocks?

Theft? You couldn't figure that out?

The term "ransacking" in England doesn't equal "theft" the correct term being robbed ( theft ) ransacking ( made a mess ), hence my question :nod:
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ecocks on August 25, 2010, 02:54:52 PM
So not merely vandalizing, tearing it up looking for things of value then.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: erudite on August 25, 2010, 05:40:30 PM
Just called a good friend of mine and talked about the cost of living,  prices have gone up a bit, sure, but certainly not "out of control"
==
Now your fiancee might be painting a worse then reality picture as reading your posting, I get the feeling she is very willing to come to the US.

Yes, I suppose if I made $300 US or less each month, lived in a small apartment with my mother, sister, niece and daughter, had no car or realistic chance to make my life better in Ukraine, I would be ready for a change too.  I live in America and I am ready for a change in America or a change out of America if it becomes realistic at some point. But for now for me being an American seems better than living in Ukraine as a Ukraine citizen. 

The people I know in Ukraine are intelligent, honest, hard working, have a good sense of moral right and wrong. They do not indulge in self pity, quite the contrary. But each has told me at some point in our friendship that they are ashamed of so much in their country because of the corruption and dysfunctional government not solving the problems. Also none of them voted for the current President Viktor Yanukovych in the last election.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: JeanClaude on August 25, 2010, 05:54:21 PM
@erudite,

My point is people are not "starving" (other then they usually do). If I look at Ukraine architecture, I get the feeling this was once a wealthy nation, the nice (but old) neoclassical houses are being broken down to make place for glass, steel and concrete. Progress.... ???

Governments don't make countries great, they can only stop people from unleashing their creative potential with restrictive laws or laws that give special privileges for their friends in existing (big) industry.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ecocks on August 25, 2010, 09:02:54 PM
Just called a good friend of mine and talked about the cost of living,  prices have gone up a bit, sure, but certainly not "out of control"
==
Now your fiancee might be painting a worse then reality picture as reading your posting, I get the feeling she is very willing to come to the US.

Yes, I suppose if I made $300 US or less each month, lived in a small apartment with my mother, sister, niece and daughter, had no car or realistic chance to make my life better in Ukraine, I would be ready for a change too.  I live in America and I am ready for a change in America or a change out of America if it becomes realistic at some point. But for now for me being an American seems better than living in Ukraine as a Ukraine citizen. 

The people I know in Ukraine are intelligent, honest, hard working, have a good sense of moral right and wrong. They do not indulge in self pity, quite the contrary. But each has told me at some point in our friendship that they are ashamed of so much in their country because of the corruption and dysfunctional government not solving the problems. Also none of them voted for the current President Viktor Yanukovych in the last election.

I also met many who eventually confided their "embarrassment" and frustration with hoping for a better government to bring about changes. However, I have a couple of friends who admit they saw no choice but to vote for the perceived "strongman" candidate, Viktor Yankurkovich.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: MND on August 25, 2010, 11:38:59 PM
Just called a good friend of mine and talked about the cost of living,  prices have gone up a bit, sure, but certainly not "out of control"
==
Now your fiancee might be painting a worse then reality picture as reading your posting, I get the feeling she is very willing to come to the US.

My wife has just returned from being overthere for 8 weeks and she says that the prices on everything have risen dramatically compared to this time last year.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Chris on August 26, 2010, 05:28:48 AM
Just called a good friend of mine and talked about the cost of living,  prices have gone up a bit, sure, but certainly not "out of control"


I'm in Ukraine at the moment, I will let you know what my experience is with prices compared to end of last year after I have been here a bit longer.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: JeanClaude on August 26, 2010, 08:18:19 AM
@Chris,

Let us know, maybe you can state some actual prices, example, milk, meat, bread, different kind of vegetables))
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: andrewfi on August 26, 2010, 09:13:14 AM
Hmmmm...

It is REALLY hard to fudge inflation figures for most countries because of the exchange rate. (the US is a very notable exception as the US exports msot of its inflation by printing dollars that are usedt o make foreign purchases and to be used by other countries for trade in dollar denominated commodities (Oil being the easiest example)

So, if there is a general rise in prices (definition of inflation) then the currency buys less than it would have done before and thus it is worth less than it was before and so the exchange rate will fall.

That means that if you are seeing increases in the prices of some goods then there must be a countervailing price trend in other classes of goods that brings the overall figure to that published by the Ukraine government.
Of course, just as in other places, the 'shopping basket' might be distorted on purpose to give a lower headline figure for public consumption but the exchange rates (and interest rates) will, in the end tell the story.

So, if we give credence to tales of 40% increases in the price of a candy bar etc. then we must also understand that something else in the shopping basket has gone down in price to enable the official figures to be credible and thus support the currency exchange rates which are derived from market pressures.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ecocks on August 26, 2010, 10:05:23 AM
Again, it's a matter of degree.

My wife and I talk every day about prices and conditions there plus I have a half dozen or so who are still living on the ground in Kyiv and around the country, although none in small villages.

The story is the same from all. Prices are up but nothing like the numbers or severity being tossed around in chat. A couple of forum members are upset that I "just don't get" that it takes $300 a month minimum to feed someone. Well, wife, babushka and 23 year old son are not spending even half of $900 a month to eat so I have no clue where all this information is originating, resulting in these opinions.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Rasputin on August 26, 2010, 10:43:09 AM
My point is people are not "starving" (other then they usually do).

Fortunately, the main staple, buckwheat, is quite nutritious (http://www.buzzle.com/articles/buckwheat-nutrition-facts.html). The fact is that most people will have a fairly nutritious diet, but it will be quite limited. They will eschew meat, fruit and expensive produce. They will then rely on a a handful of products that are relatively affordable (potatoes and buckwheat and a few varieties of porridge). They will also store what they can from the summer to feed themselves over the winter (they will pickle tomatoes and cucumbers, store potatoes and salted cabbage on the balcony, make "compote" out of berries, dry mushrooms, etc....). This way, they can keep their food costs to a minimum, while not risking starvation  tiphat
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Chris on August 26, 2010, 11:28:48 AM
My point is people are not "starving" (other then they usually do).

Fortunately, the main staple, buckwheat, is quite nutritious (http://www.buzzle.com/articles/buckwheat-nutrition-facts.html). The fact is that most people will have a fairly nutritious diet, but it will be quite limited. They will eschew meat, fruit and expensive produce. They will then rely on a a handful of products that are relatively affordable (potatoes and buckwheat and a few varieties of porridge). They will also store what they can from the summer to feed themselves over the winter (they will pickle tomatoes and cucumbers, store potatoes and salted cabbage on the balcony, make "compote" out of berries, dry mushrooms, etc....). This way, they can keep their food costs to a minimum, while not risking starvation  tiphat

You are spot on Rasputin, thats what my wifes family are doing right now, the meal we just had was along those lines, not too bad really either.  But they do eats lots of meats also of varying varieties. They are drinking lots of Silver Birch juice at the moment too, rather than alcoholic beverages.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Rasputin on August 26, 2010, 11:33:34 AM
But they do eats lots of meats also of varying varieties.

My MIL is more frugal. The meat tends to be in the form of "kotlety" or a bit of meat in soups. When she splurges, she tends to buy fish. You will have of course, some kolbasa and cheese, but these are usually eaten in moderation with babushka (i.e. my MIL) making sure her grandkids (SIL's children) eat the more prized foods in moderation  :-X
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Stirlitz on August 26, 2010, 11:38:20 AM
Rasputin, what's the English for the kotlety? I am not quite sure things like this are eaten in the West. Chops?
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Rasputin on August 26, 2010, 11:45:24 AM
Rasputin, what's the English for the kotlety? I am not quite sure things like this are eaten in the West. Chops?

Cutlets.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: JeanClaude on August 26, 2010, 11:57:25 AM
Rasputin, what's the English for the kotlety? I am not quite sure things like this are eaten in the West. Chops?

Porkchops?
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Rasputin on August 26, 2010, 12:12:29 PM
Rasputin, what's the English for the kotlety? I am not quite sure things like this are eaten in the West. Chops?

Porkchops?

No, pork chops are slices of meat. The cutlets are a combination of ground meat (though there are vegetarian cutlets) and other ingredients.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Muzh_1 on August 26, 2010, 12:14:19 PM
Rasputin, what's the English for the kotlety? I am not quite sure things like this are eaten in the West. Chops?

Porkchops?

Nyet. They are grounded meat (beef, chicken, pork or any combination) and made to look like a big meatball.

My outlaws have chickens and geese, not to mention that their approx 1 hectare of land is cultivated to the hilt. During the summer they barter some their crops and fowl for other essentials. They are set for the winter.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ecocks on August 26, 2010, 12:34:01 PM
So much for the claim that the "average" person is eating $300 a month in food.

The actual claimed figure from 2 people (1 in Russia the other in San Francisco) was that the average is $400 but they eventually backed off to the $300 mark.

My wife serves fish 2-3 times a week although when I do the shopping it's more like 4-5 times to add protein. Pork steaks, sausage, chicken and kolbasa when we could find decent quality. Eggs, kasha, pirogi, vareniks, potatoes, black bread and American style pancakes whenever they can.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Rasputin on August 26, 2010, 12:48:40 PM
So much for the claim that the "average" person is eating $300 a month in food.

My wife and I together spend less than $300 a month on food for the two of us, and this includes lots of fruit, meat, cheese, etc... We spend on average $150-$160 dining out per month  :popcorn:
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ecocks on August 26, 2010, 12:53:42 PM
So much for the claim that the "average" person is eating $300 a month in food.

My wife and I together spend less than $300 a month on food for the two of us, and this includes lots of fruit, meat, cheese, etc... We spend on average $150-$160 dining out per month  :popcorn:

Exactly what my wife says.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Stirlitz on August 29, 2010, 02:09:27 AM
Cutlets.
The thing is I have never (or hardly ever) heard or seen this word used by native speakers. Are cutlets actually cooked in the West? It looks like even if they are they are not popular.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: MND on August 29, 2010, 03:42:40 AM
Cutlets.
The thing is I have never (or hardly ever) heard or seen this word used by native speakers. Are cutlets actually cooked in the West? It looks like even if they are they are not popular.

They are eaten alot in Australia we call them patties or rissoles cutlets to us are what we would call chops (small cuts of meat still with some bone left Pork or Lamb) .
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: kievstar on August 29, 2010, 08:44:19 AM
I just spent two weeks in Ukraine and overall prices a lot less this year than last and some things like buying apartments back to 1990's levels. 

Food, clothing apartments, taxis were all cheaper than 2009.  You can find some things higher like bread (but that is drought related maybe) but overall dirt cheap.

I was surprised on how cheap everything was and wifey and I loaded up on clothes and started the process of buying a couple of houses with land for 90% less than 2009 prices.  People are hungry in Ukraine and the economy is a mess.  Top 5% making all the money does not work in Ukraine.  People and stores selling everything they have at huge discounts right now.

Crime is way up in Ukraine and many people are killing / stealing from each other.  Several taxi cab drivers were killed recently for their car and cash.  Smaller branches of banks are closing so if you send moneygram or western union make sure the person picks it up within 24 hours.  Several big car dealerships went bankrupt during August. 

I did see that the number of men looking for women was way up.  I also noticed the women they were with were a lot older.  Seems men are getting a little smarter and serious and going for women more mature.  Good thing to see. 

A lot of construction going on for 2012 Euro cup.  I was in each of the Euro 2012 cities and construction on target.  Many new hotels.  Look to see hotel room rates decrease right after Euro 2012 and no longer have to do the dreaded apartment rental for the men who like the 4 star hotels with free breakfast for $80 usd a night plus free high speed internet.  But hotel prices will not drop until after Euro 2012. 

Was a great trip over all. 

For the people who want to have a business in Ukraine now is the time to do it.  The opportunities of the 1990's are back. 

Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: mendeleyev on August 29, 2010, 02:23:52 PM
MIL probably makes the best cutlets ever, but wife, aunts and cousins do also. MIL does especially well with pork and wife with chicken.

Beef cutlets have been around for awhile but according to legend, chicken cutlets were first created when Tsar Nicholas I stopped at Pozharsky's tavern in Torzhok (once a popular stopover for travelers journeying between Moscow and St. Petersburg) to enjoy Pozharsky's famous veal cutlets. The tavern owner had run out of veal so he used chicken instead. The legend goes that the Tsar enjoyed them so much that chicken cutlets were eventually included in the Royal menu.

To lend credence to the story, Alexandar Pushkin is said to have penned a letter to his friend Sobolevski which included the line:

“Take a break for lunch
At Pozharky’s in Torzhok.
Try fried cutlets
And enjoy your day.”


Usually made of chopped meat I've heard them described as отбивная котлета and some chicken cutlets are described as котлета по-киевски (Chicken Kiev).


RUA Russian/Ukrainian cutlets recipes: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,3495.msg119827.html#msg119827
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Voyager on August 29, 2010, 02:47:32 PM
Cutlets.
The thing is I have never (or hardly ever) heard or seen this word used by native speakers. Are cutlets actually cooked in the West? It looks like even if they are they are not popular.

Do you mean native Russian or native English?
I think the word might be used more by the English than by the Americans?
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: mendeleyev on August 29, 2010, 03:05:12 PM
If he means Americans then he is absolutely correct. As popular as it would seem that say, Chicken Kiev, is around the world, since it's not served at McDonalds many Americans under the age of 45 may have seldom heard the term or experienced the delight.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ecocks on August 29, 2010, 11:10:55 PM
I've heard the word before growing up in the states. It's just a bit old-fashioned in that no one here uses it much anymore.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: WestCoast on August 30, 2010, 12:50:33 AM
Cutlets.
The thing is I have never (or hardly ever) heard or seen this word used by native speakers. Are cutlets actually cooked in the West? It looks like even if they are they are not popular.

Cutlets are popular as chicken cutlets or breaded or unbreaded veal cutlets.  They are available in the meat department in western Canada.  I've also seen them in the meat departments in Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Honolulu and several other cities in the western US states.  They're popular because they're easy to cook.  You can simply bake them in the oven, don't forget to turn them over about half way through the baking.  They can also be pan fried on the stove.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Chris on August 30, 2010, 01:55:34 AM
Ok here's some actual prices, as of yesterday for general food items in Western Ukraine, compared to 2 years ago. They are compared to 2 years ago as it is easier for us to relate to that periiod when my wife was buying the same/similar items every day, so I know they are pretty accurate.

Prices are all in Grivnah  UAH

Product               Price Today    Price 2 years ago
1 litre juice           9.80                   5.70
Yoghurts               6.90                  5.00
Loaf of bread        3.09                  1.35
Cherry liquers
(157gms)              22.25                12.00
Mayonnaise          4.15                   1.90
Cheese spread     19.60                10.00
Litre water            3.70                  1.20

Others

Petrol / litre           7.80                  5.40 ish
Orbit chewing
gum                      3.40                  1.20
Georgian wine
per bottle             70.00                45 - 50UAH

Meal for 4 with
beer                     700.00               280.00
(this is actual, this meal we had at the same restaurant (Carpathian Mountains) this time with beer, last time with wine which is dearer)

Overall prices for general food products have increased significantly, whilst wages are actually dropping. This compounds the problem.

We visited my wife's last employer Chernivtsi TV and Radio a couple of days ago and although the business is doing reasonably well, the owner has stopped paying all bonuses and extra hours, so in effect the main staff are earning a lot less now than they were even a year ago. So general food stuffs rising and wages dropping is compounding the problem for the average man/women/family.

I will check on  clothing etc` if and when I get time.


Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Chris on August 30, 2010, 07:14:02 AM
OK clothes then, whilst out shopping today  :sick0012: with Ira I noticed nearly every clothes shop we entered had a 20% - 70% discount offer, but interestingly, NO shoe shops had any offers at all  ???

It amazes me how whenevr she tries on a 6 (European 36) over here it fits her well, whilst back in the UK a UK 6 very rarely fits (or only fits where it touches  :chuckle: ) and an 8 usually swamps her. They are just a different better shape over in the FSU  :-X
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: dazzer on August 30, 2010, 09:53:32 AM
Ok here's some actual prices, as of yesterday for general food items in Western Ukraine, compared to 2 years ago. They are compared to 2 years ago as it is easier for us to relate to that periiod when my wife was buying the same/similar items every day, so I know they are pretty accurate.

Prices are all in Grivnah  UAH

Product               Price Today    Price 2 years ago
1 litre juice           9.80                   5.70
Yoghurts               6.90                  5.00
Loaf of bread        3.09                  1.35
Cherry liquers
(157gms)              22.25                12.00
Mayonnaise          4.15                   1.90
Cheese spread     19.60                10.00
Litre water            3.70                  1.20

Others

Petrol / litre           7.80                  5.40 ish
Orbit chewing
gum                      3.40                  1.20
Georgian wine
per bottle             70.00                45 - 50UAH

Meal for 4 with
beer                     700.00               280.00
(this is actual, this meal we had at the same restaurant (Carpathian Mountains) this time with beer, last time with wine which is dearer)

Overall prices for general food products have increased significantly, whilst wages are actually dropping. This compounds the problem.

Chris, given the amount the cost of food has gone up in Ukraine I'm seriously thinking of taking my own butty's next time i go tiphat
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: JeanClaude on August 30, 2010, 03:27:21 PM
Not good!

If the government is crazy enough to enact pricecontrol you can expect big shortages and a huge black market!
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: MND on August 30, 2010, 10:09:06 PM
OK clothes then, whilst out shopping today  :sick0012: with Ira I noticed nearly every clothes shop we entered had a 20% - 70% discount offer, but interestingly, NO shoe shops had any offers at all  ???

It amazes me how whenevr she tries on a 6 (European 36) over here it fits her well, whilst back in the UK a UK 6 very rarely fits (or only fits where it touches  :chuckle: ) and an 8 usually swamps her. They are just a different better shape over in the FSU  :-X

Hey mate check the price per kilo of the meat as well Nat says that has also gone up quite a bit.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: WestCoast on August 30, 2010, 10:56:49 PM
OK clothes then, whilst out shopping today  :sick0012: with Ira I noticed nearly every clothes shop we entered had a 20% - 70% discount offer, but interestingly, NO shoe shops had any offers at all  ???

It amazes me how whenevr she tries on a 6 (European 36) over here it fits her well, whilst back in the UK a UK 6 very rarely fits (or only fits where it touches  :chuckle: ) and an 8 usually swamps her. They are just a different better shape over in the FSU  :-X

Chris it does make sense if you think about it.  She was born and raised in Ukraine so it's only natural that Ukrainian clothes would fit her best.  I'm sure if you took a woman born and raised in the UK to Ukraine she would have the same problem.  Ukrainian clothes would be a poor fit and UK clothes would fit her perfectly.   :)
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: JeanClaude on August 31, 2010, 02:45:23 PM
Well, we all know what you get if you just print money

Price of 3 eggs

(http://www.nationalpost.com/672501.bin)
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: kievstar on August 31, 2010, 04:03:24 PM
Chris, do you have the prices from 2009 as 2008 the crisis caused everything to be very cheap in 2008.  Might be better to compare to 2006. 
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Chris on September 01, 2010, 01:03:40 AM
Ok here's some actual prices, as of yesterday for general food items in Western Ukraine, compared to 2 years ago. They are compared to 2 years ago as it is easier for us to relate to that periiod when my wife was buying the same/similar items every day, so I know they are pretty accurate.

Prices are all in Grivnah  UAH

Product               Price Today    Price 2 years ago
1 litre juice           9.80                   5.70
Yoghurts               6.90                  5.00
Loaf of bread        3.09                  1.35
Cherry liquers
(157gms)              22.25                12.00
Mayonnaise          4.15                   1.90
Cheese spread     19.60                10.00
Litre water            3.70                  1.20

Others

Petrol / litre           7.80                  5.40 ish
Orbit chewing
gum                      3.40                  1.20
Georgian wine
per bottle             70.00                45 - 50UAH

Meal for 4 with
beer                     700.00               280.00
(this is actual, this meal we had at the same restaurant (Carpathian Mountains) this time with beer, last time with wine which is dearer)

Overall prices for general food products have increased significantly, whilst wages are actually dropping. This compounds the problem.

Chris, given the amount the cost of food has gone up in Ukraine I'm seriously thinking of taking my own butty's next time i go tiphat

Start preparing now Dazzer  :chuckle:
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Chris on September 01, 2010, 01:05:03 AM
OK clothes then, whilst out shopping today  :sick0012: with Ira I noticed nearly every clothes shop we entered had a 20% - 70% discount offer, but interestingly, NO shoe shops had any offers at all  ???

It amazes me how whenevr she tries on a 6 (European 36) over here it fits her well, whilst back in the UK a UK 6 very rarely fits (or only fits where it touches  :chuckle: ) and an 8 usually swamps her. They are just a different better shape over in the FSU  :-X

Hey mate check the price per kilo of the meat as well Nat says that has also gone up quite a bit.

I would Mark, but I'm done with shopping now, hate it at best, but if I get dragged in another store I will see what I can find  :) But yes, most foods have gone up as far as I can see.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Chris on September 01, 2010, 01:06:04 AM
OK clothes then, whilst out shopping today  :sick0012: with Ira I noticed nearly every clothes shop we entered had a 20% - 70% discount offer, but interestingly, NO shoe shops had any offers at all  ???

It amazes me how whenevr she tries on a 6 (European 36) over here it fits her well, whilst back in the UK a UK 6 very rarely fits (or only fits where it touches  :chuckle: ) and an 8 usually swamps her. They are just a different better shape over in the FSU  :-X

Chris it does make sense if you think about it.  She was born and raised in Ukraine so it's only natural that Ukrainian clothes would fit her best.  I'm sure if you took a woman born and raised in the UK to Ukraine she would have the same problem.  Ukrainian clothes would be a poor fit and UK clothes would fit her perfectly.   :)

Yes agreed Westy, you are probably right, although I know which way around I like it  :-X
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Chris on September 01, 2010, 01:08:14 AM
Chris, do you have the prices from 2009 as 2008 the crisis caused everything to be very cheap in 2008.  Might be better to compare to 2006. 

I could probably route some out, but its not as easy to remember what we were paying in 2009 as we weren't living here.

BTW I notice property prices are down quite a bit, its a buyers market over here, I am considering buying again, I put it off 2 years ago, but the timing might be right about now.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Chris on September 01, 2010, 01:17:54 AM
Quote from: Kievstar
For the people who want to have a business in Ukraine now is the time to do it.  The opportunities of the 1990's are back. 

It is if you can find the right people to do business with. This trip I had arranged 4 or 5 business meetings for which I was giving presentations, but even knowing the score over here and having a lot of contacts, only one went ahead, despite them all being confirmed and qualified pre-trip. Doing business with other business people over here is like walking a tightrope, they mess you about with a capital 'P' and don't seem to care.

One of the business owners who was supposed to show yesterday never even bothered to call to apologise, then some 4 or 5 hours later he called and made a lame excuse and asked if we could re-schedule, I told him he only gets one chance, and I don't get messed around twice, if he wants to meet now it will be on my terms. You cannot let these numpties call the shots, they will have you wasting so much time and money and they just couldn't give a toss about it. If you don't know the ropes you can come a cropper quite easily, so don't go into any new ventures without doing a lot of DD (more so than you would do at home) and having the right contacts in place who know what is what.

But! if you can pull it off, there is good money to be earned.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: MND on September 01, 2010, 05:16:13 AM
Chris, do you have the prices from 2009 as 2008 the crisis caused everything to be very cheap in 2008.  Might be better to compare to 2006. 

I could probably route some out, but its not as easy to remember what we were paying in 2009 as we weren't living here.

BTW I notice property prices are down quite a bit, its a buyers market over here, I am considering buying again, I put it off 2 years ago, but the timing might be right about now.

Nat says it is really cheap we grabbed a block of land while Nat was overthere, when we wanted it two years ago they wanted $20k now they settled for $6k
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Chris on September 01, 2010, 05:18:25 AM
Chris, do you have the prices from 2009 as 2008 the crisis caused everything to be very cheap in 2008.  Might be better to compare to 2006. 

I could probably route some out, but its not as easy to remember what we were paying in 2009 as we weren't living here.

BTW I notice property prices are down quite a bit, its a buyers market over here, I am considering buying again, I put it off 2 years ago, but the timing might be right about now.



Nat says it is really cheap we grabbed a block of land while Nat was overthere, when we wanted it two years ago they wanted $20k now they settled for $6k

Yes mark, there are some desperate people around, wanting to get cash out of their assets or just cannot afford to keep up the repayments.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: MND on September 01, 2010, 05:36:27 AM
Chris, do you have the prices from 2009 as 2008 the crisis caused everything to be very cheap in 2008.  Might be better to compare to 2006. 

I could probably route some out, but its not as easy to remember what we were paying in 2009 as we weren't living here.

BTW I notice property prices are down quite a bit, its a buyers market over here, I am considering buying again, I put it off 2 years ago, but the timing might be right about now.



Nat says it is really cheap we grabbed a block of land while Nat was overthere, when we wanted it two years ago they wanted $20k now they settled for $6k

Yes mark, there are some desperate people around, wanting to get cash out of their assets or just cannot afford to keep up the repayments.

We had forgotten about the land but Nat bumped into the lady while she was overthere and she asked Nat if she was still interested Nat said no then the lady asked Nat if she was still interested she could have it for 6K.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ecocks on September 01, 2010, 06:23:38 AM
Quote from: Kievstar
For the people who want to have a business in Ukraine now is the time to do it.  The opportunities of the 1990's are back. 

It is if you can find the right people to do business with. This trip I had arranged 4 or 5 business meetings for which I was giving presentations, but even knowing the score over here and having a lot of contacts, only one went ahead, despite them all being confirmed and qualified pre-trip. Doing business with other business people over here is like walking a tightrope, they mess you about with a capital 'P' and don't seem to care.

One of the business owners who was supposed to show yesterday never even bothered to call to apologise, then some 4 or 5 hours later he called and made a lame excuse and asked if we could re-schedule, I told him he only gets one chance, and I don't get messed around twice, if he wants to meet now it will be on my terms. You cannot let these numpties call the shots, they will have you wasting so much time and money and they just couldn't give a toss about it. If you don't know the ropes you can come a cropper quite easily, so don't go into any new ventures without doing a lot of DD (more so than you would do at home) and having the right contacts in place who know what is what.

But! if you can pull it off, there is good money to be earned.

I agree it is coming on to the optimum time to look at getting in over in Ukraine for small and medium sized-businesses. If you understand the concept of business cycles, have capital AND can solve the problem of finding a trustworthy partner over there then start thinking about riding the cycle up.

Business people ARE maturing over there. They are getting to where they understand the concepts of and issues faced in global markets, accommodating foreign expectations and practices, paying taxes, ethics, taking care of employees (at least with regard to basic motivation) and win-win style partnership arrangements. If you can find a partner who thinks ahead and is in this for the long game, there are possibilities.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Chris on September 01, 2010, 08:57:33 AM
If you can find a partner who thinks ahead and is in this for the long game, there are possibilities.

Thinks ahead and is in it for the long game is an oxymoron over here, but yes, if you can find that one, then its the way to go.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Chris on September 01, 2010, 09:00:17 AM

We had forgotten about the land but Nat bumped into the lady while she was overthere and she asked Nat if she was still interested Nat said no then the lady asked Nat if she was still interested she could have it for 6K.

Great news Mark, but now comes the hard part, getting all the necessary permits, paying the bribes and what not to allow you to build on it  :)
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: ecocks on September 01, 2010, 10:47:10 AM
If you can find a partner who thinks ahead and is in this for the long game, there are possibilities.

Thinks ahead and is in it for the long game is an oxymoron over here, but yes, if you can find that one, then its the way to go.

Yes, unfortunately too many still translate "thinking ahead" as "stealing everything I can as quickly as possible".
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: JeanClaude on September 01, 2010, 02:49:01 PM
Chris, do you have the prices from 2009 as 2008 the crisis caused everything to be very cheap in 2008.  Might be better to compare to 2006. 

I could probably route some out, but its not as easy to remember what we were paying in 2009 as we weren't living here.

BTW I notice property prices are down quite a bit, its a buyers market over here, I am considering buying again, I put it off 2 years ago, but the timing might be right about now.

Nat says it is really cheap we grabbed a block of land while Nat was overthere, when we wanted it two years ago they wanted $20k now they settled for $6k

could you tell me in which region did you pick up that land?
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: MND on September 01, 2010, 10:10:43 PM
Khmelnytskyi Oblast
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: MND on September 01, 2010, 10:12:45 PM

We had forgotten about the land but Nat bumped into the lady while she was overthere and she asked Nat if she was still interested Nat said no then the lady asked Nat if she was still interested she could have it for 6K.

Great news Mark, but now comes the hard part, getting all the necessary permits, paying the bribes and what not to allow you to build on it  :)

Ahh but thats the good part as you know you can get want you want if you have the right green folding stuff
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Chris on September 02, 2010, 01:09:32 AM
If you can find a partner who thinks ahead and is in this for the long game, there are possibilities.

Thinks ahead and is in it for the long game is an oxymoron over here, but yes, if you can find that one, then its the way to go.

Yes, unfortunately too many still translate "thinking ahead" as "stealing everything I can as quickly as possible".

So true!
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Chris on September 02, 2010, 01:11:41 AM

We had forgotten about the land but Nat bumped into the lady while she was overthere and she asked Nat if she was still interested Nat said no then the lady asked Nat if she was still interested she could have it for 6K.

Great news Mark, but now comes the hard part, getting all the necessary permits, paying the bribes and what not to allow you to build on it  :)

Ahh but thats the good part as you know you can get want you want if you have the right green folding stuff


Yes mostly you can, although the backhander values seem to be rising from what you used to be able to get away with. People are getting wise, especially if they know a foreignor is involved.

Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Chris on September 02, 2010, 05:38:40 AM
OK clothes then, whilst out shopping today  :sick0012: with Ira I noticed nearly every clothes shop we entered had a 20% - 70% discount offer, but interestingly, NO shoe shops had any offers at all  ???


For some unknown reason  :sick0012: I managed to get dragged in a few more shoe shops yesterday by the wifey, and I was pleasantly surprised that a pair of good quality shoes we had bought in the UK for my father in law were in one of these shops, exact same shoes, same manufacturer etc and they were nearly double the price we paid in the UK for them,  :o   ...........it made my day  ;D

Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: JeanClaude on September 02, 2010, 05:48:38 AM
Khmelnytskyi Oblast

On another note, as i was looking for real estate in Ukraine, I read up on some laws, It is forbidden for foreigners to own farmland, so I am guessing your wife bought this in her name?
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: Chris on September 02, 2010, 06:22:30 AM
Khmelnytskyi Oblast

On another note, as i was looking for real estate in Ukraine, I read up on some laws, It is forbidden for foreigners to own farmland, so I am guessing your wife bought this in her name?

Its about the only way JC, its possible to maybe buy it as a foreignor, but things change all the time so you have to be on the ball.
Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: MND on September 03, 2010, 05:47:01 AM
Khmelnytskyi Oblast

On another note, as i was looking for real estate in Ukraine, I read up on some laws, It is forbidden for foreigners to own farmland, so I am guessing your wife bought this in her name?

Hers mine and our daughters name
Title: Cost of living in Ukraine
Post by: Vinnvinny on July 04, 2012, 07:17:52 PM
http://8monthsinukraine.blogspot.co.uk/p/about.html

An interesting read I thought.
Title: Re: Blog - An American female living in Kharkov
Post by: vendelo on July 04, 2012, 10:17:41 PM
Interesting indeed, thanks.

Title: Re: Blog - An American female living in Kharkov
Post by: Mudryst on December 18, 2012, 11:25:27 PM
Really cool read. Thank you very much. I never would have found this blog or this girl's page on FB. http://www.facebook.com/8MonthsInUkraine/

Very cool. Interesting for those of us that have been living in Ukraine for a while to see another point of view. Also, hearing from a girl is rather refreshing too.

Hope you are all having a wonderful holiday season.
Title: Re: Blog - An American female living in Kharkov
Post by: Barbossa on December 19, 2012, 12:52:33 AM
Looks Like Home.  Wait.  It is home.  Duh!

I'll look this gal and 'D' up and exchange stories.  Thanks for the tip.

Finding Americans in this town is always difficult.  My latest fad is meeting people through the animal shelters where I occasionally volunteer.  Gal helps out, but has her own life too.  We get along.
Title: Cost of living in Ukraine
Post by: Texan77 on July 11, 2013, 01:33:23 AM
I am trying to use pay pal to send money? Just a small amount like 150 dollars. I really do not like the western Union prices and the bank draft is not so cool neither. I was wondering if anyone has better ways to send small amounts of money. Does anyone have experance with paypal in sending money. I could not get the girl to fill out the info to recieve the money because everyone she talk to do not know how to get the money after she did.  ???
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: patagonie on July 11, 2013, 01:46:33 AM
Have you met this lady ?
Do you know what is 150 $ in Ukraine or Bielorussia ?
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: andrewfi on July 11, 2013, 01:58:47 AM
Texan77, you can not send money to a person in Ukraine. The PayPal service there is only available for sending payments from Ukrainians to people outside Ukraine. She can pay for stuff, but not receive payments.

You might be able to fudge it but you'd also risk losing the money for ever, or if lucky just a few months.

Have you met this person?
Are you being asked to pay for a life saving operation for some dear, aged relative?

For one-off low dollar amounts Western Union is costly but effective. My guess is that the woman(?) already was able to help you with the sending process using WU - indeed, maybe very familiar with it. ;)
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: ashbyclarke on July 11, 2013, 02:19:41 AM
There are competitors to western union that are miles cheaper, take a look online. I have sent money before and paid about £10 to send a grand.

Gotta ask what it's for? It is the land of scammers, so be careful, $150 is a lot over there.
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: mcs on July 13, 2013, 12:56:07 PM
Hey Texan!!
I noticed that your status is just looking. Personally, until you have reached the committed stage, I would not send any cash. You could send money other ways other than WU but it is far easier for her to pick the money up at a Western Union outlet. There are other means, but if you must send some money,  I would bite the bullet with WU and spend the extra $5.

Smitty
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: TomT on July 13, 2013, 04:06:25 PM
MoneyGram is much less expensive than Western Union.
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: JL on August 22, 2013, 09:02:02 AM
yes......what they said. :)

I usually just bite the bullet and use western union. You can do it online, stick it on a credit card and I only have to take 4 steps to my computer which is easier than driving 6 blocks to the grocery store that has a WU service. Moneygram is probably online alsoBut don't send money to someone you haven't met in person and even then you should know them well. I have also used a service called liqpay.com   I think they have to have an account with them though.....of course it is nothing to set one up....similar to paypal but you can click a but you can click a button and change it to Russian, English and a couple of others if she has problems with English.
You have to learn to say no to people who you really don't know well. I recently was ask by a really pretty blonde who wrote me almost every day for a couple of months and sent me lots of pictures if I could wire her some money to pay her internet bill or it would be shut off. I told her I'm sorry but one of my rules is to never wire money to someone I haven't met in person and know pretty well. Never heard from her again
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: andrewfi on August 22, 2013, 11:36:36 AM
PayPal will be fully operational in Russia very shortly. Yes, not Ukraine, but I am sure somebody, somewhere wants to send money to Russia. PayPal is about the cheapest, safest way to do the job.

In Ukraine you can use Paypal by sending your interlocutor a PayPal debit card and she can withdraw from the card and you can top the card up when you want to. Very cheap to do.
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: Mikeav8r on August 22, 2013, 12:36:33 PM
PayPal will be fully operational in Russia very shortly. Yes, not Ukraine, but I am sure somebody, somewhere wants to send money to Russia. PayPal is about the cheapest, safest way to do the job.

In Ukraine you can use Paypal by sending your interlocutor a PayPal debit card and she can withdraw from the card and you can top the card up when you want to. Very cheap to do.

That will be handy for those that send money....and those that receive
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: andrewfi on August 22, 2013, 12:40:19 PM
PayPal will be fully operational in Russia very shortly. Yes, not Ukraine, but I am sure somebody, somewhere wants to send money to Russia. PayPal is about the cheapest, safest way to do the job.

In Ukraine you can use Paypal by sending your interlocutor a PayPal debit card and she can withdraw from the card and you can top the card up when you want to. Very cheap to do.

That will be handy for those that send money....and those that receive

I make no comment as to whether sending money in any particular case is a good idea or not, just that this is a way to do it.

Where PayPal is available I can think of no easier or better 'casual' way to make transfers.
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: Mikeav8r on August 22, 2013, 12:45:57 PM
PayPal will be fully operational in Russia very shortly. Yes, not Ukraine, but I am sure somebody, somewhere wants to send money to Russia. PayPal is about the cheapest, safest way to do the job.

In Ukraine you can use Paypal by sending your interlocutor a PayPal debit card and she can withdraw from the card and you can top the card up when you want to. Very cheap to do.

That will be handy for those that send money....and those that receive

I make no comment as to whether sending money in any particular case is a good idea or not, just that this is a way to do it.

Where PayPal is available I can think of no easier or better 'casual' way to make transfers.

Agree.  I use it often....not for the above stated reason, but often in other ways.  Very handy.
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: AJ on August 22, 2013, 12:52:38 PM
For whats its worth ,if its the same girl, pretty sure he has met her prior , in Ukraine,
and discussed it here about acquiring a US  tourist visa.




Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: JL on August 22, 2013, 01:00:18 PM
yes it is handy. I have purchased some fairly expensive things with Paypal......up to $5000. I always put that I am sending to family or friend in that section where it asks that. It avoids being charged the fee which on a $5000 purchase would be quite a bit.  :)

"The devil made me do it the first time, the second time I done it on my own"
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: andrewfi on August 22, 2013, 01:05:14 PM
yes it is handy. I have purchased some fairly expensive things with Paypal......up to $5000. I always put that I am sending to family or friend in that section where it asks that. It avoids being charged the fee which on a $5000 purchase would be quite a bit.  :)

"The devil made me do it the first time, the second time I done it on my own"

That's great, as long as you know that you're not going to be able to enlist PayPal's assistance if you ever have any disputes over anything you buy through PayPal. Vendors will tell you that they are often unhappy with PayPal's willingness to side with buyers. :)
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: CC3 on August 22, 2013, 01:20:08 PM
yes......what they said. :)

I usually just bite the bullet and use western union. You can do it online, stick it on a credit card and I only have to take 4 steps to my computer which is easier than driving 6 blocks to the grocery store that has a WU service. Moneygram is probably online alsoBut don't send money to someone you haven't met in person and even then you should know them well. I have also used a service called liqpay.com   I think they have to have an account with them though.....of course it is nothing to set one up....similar to paypal but you can click a but you can click a button and change it to Russian, English and a couple of others if she has problems with English.
You have to learn to say no to people who you really don't know well. I recently was ask by a really pretty blonde who wrote me almost every day for a couple of months and sent me lots of pictures if I could wire her some money to pay her internet bill or it would be shut off. I told her I'm sorry but one of my rules is to never wire money to someone I haven't met in person and know pretty well. Never heard from her again

I've sent money, online, by Western Union and by Moneygram. The latter is extremely convenient and more security oriented than WU. It is also much less expensive. I recommend it. Moneygram reception points are numerous throughout Ukraine.
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: JL on August 22, 2013, 02:05:27 PM
yes it is handy. I have purchased some fairly expensive things with Paypal......up to $5000. I always put that I am sending to family or friend in that section where it asks that. It avoids being charged the fee which on a $5000 purchase would be quite a bit.  :)

"The devil made me do it the first time, the second time I done it on my own"

That's great, as long as you know that you're not going to be able to enlist PayPal's assistance if you ever have any disputes over anything you buy through PayPal. Vendors will tell you that they are often unhappy with PayPal's willingness to side with buyers. :)

Yes......I was very skeptical of doing that at first but talked to so many people that do I did it 6 or 8 times. I actually try not to use paypal much anymore......I have heard some bad things about them and of some people having money just disappear. I wish I owned Paypal though :)   when I think of all the money people just leave sitting in their paypal account and how much interest Paypal makes off of it.....Christ......I removed every dime from my account out of sheer jealousy.
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: Realpainterguy on November 02, 2013, 05:13:26 PM
hi,
I have used Western Union many times... I always send money in wife's name and we go to the bank to pick it up. I just don't like carrying a lot of cash on me..
I only paid like almost nothing..i used the Western Union bank transfer function worked great..
it takes like 2 to 3 days but cost almost nothing...
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: Luftmeister on November 03, 2013, 09:50:38 AM
I agree with what everything people have suggested. Unless you need it immediately, don't use Western Union.
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: andrewfi on November 03, 2013, 12:15:16 PM
To which banks in Ukraine can one send money through Western Union? I just hit up my WU online account to take a look see how it worked because it would be handy for paying contractors but whatever I tried would not let me make a transfer.

Perhaps the sending location is an issue?
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: Chris on November 03, 2013, 01:17:54 PM
I'm pretty sure you can do it through Raiffeisen Bank Aval in Ukraine
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: Realpainterguy on November 03, 2013, 07:47:55 PM
when, walking in downtown kiev...
almost all banks take western union...
but Privat bank is who I use..

Keep in mind you send the money to a persons name..but they must show their passport to get the money...and also must know the special transaction number you give them..
very safe and reliable...not any problem at all...
Ukrainians..very into paper work...
 Hell, watch the girl when go to the bank to exchange money..my god lots of paper work she must do..
Oh, if bringing cash from another country to exchange make sure the bills are new ..no creases, folds or wear on them..must look like new..
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: andrewfi on November 04, 2013, 06:07:45 AM
Ah, so you are just using the local bank in the same way as a normal WU agent in a shop or post office then?
Is that cheaper than using their other agents?

And yes, it seems that in Ukraine several banks are WU agents.

Is there some confusion maybe. something I missed? When I went online, in my WU account I saw that I could transfer money to a bank account directly, rather than the receiver having to collect the cash. Problem was that when I tried to access this to send money to a Ukraine bank I was told the service was not available to that location.

That is a shame for me as PayPal is pretty much unusable in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: AvHdB on November 04, 2013, 06:17:49 AM
As Andrew has indicated PayPal is not very functional or usable in Ukraine (and I understand the same for Russia).

Another option with lower fees for the sender is MoneyGram. Also popular in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: andrewfi on November 04, 2013, 06:20:03 AM
As Andrew has indicated PayPal is not very functional or usable in Ukraine (and I understand the same for Russia).

Another option with lower fees for the sender is MoneyGram. Also popular in Ukraine.

Paypal have upgraded their service in Russia. I don't recall if withdrawals must be made to a credit card (as in Estonia) or to a Russian bank account but in Russia one can now send and receive money. Ukraine is send only.
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: AvHdB on November 04, 2013, 06:28:10 AM
As Andrew has indicated PayPal is not very functional or usable in Ukraine (and I understand the same for Russia).

Another option with lower fees for the sender is MoneyGram. Also popular in Ukraine.

Paypal have upgraded their service in Russia. I don't recall if withdrawals must be made to a credit card (as in Estonia) or to a Russian bank account but in Russia one can now send and receive money. Ukraine is send only.

Yes I have read the same regarding PayPal - but the reality seems to be different (at least according to one acquaintance)
Title: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: Haventhrow on November 22, 2013, 02:06:46 AM
I know this has been touched on before, but the most recent post on it I could find was from 2011. I am a pharmacist, and considering taking a 90 day trip to see what life is like in the Ukraine. I could work online for a mail order pharmacy, but I would have to have a reliable internet connection (as in no dropping offline) to do so. Anyone have up to date info on this, and if so...what cities would you suggest...Odesa looks really nice! At least from pictures.

I appreciate any info...thanks.
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: Herrie on November 22, 2013, 03:53:07 AM
You should be OK in the big cities. As a fixed connection DSL, Cable and/or WAN should be available and quite reliable (at least according to my experience in Russia & Belarus). I don't expect it to be much different in Ukraine to be honest. As a backup you can always go for a 3G/4G dongle for your laptop/PC :) Data is cheap there :) Last year in Russia I paid like EUR 20,- or so for 17GB of data :)
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: andrewfi on November 22, 2013, 04:10:42 AM
Herrie is correct. Mobile data as backup is the way to go. I can't speak for Ukraine but here one could easily use mobile data as one's primary connection and many people do just that. I understand though that mobile data is not ideal for all purposes which is why I don't use it in that way.

If you are there for some time you might be well served to buy one of the routers that, as well as handling a normal cable/phone connection have a USB socket for a 3/4g dongle, the router providing automatic rollover to the dongle if the normal connection dies. In Estonia these things cost about €30 and are no bigger than a paperback book.
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: Haventhrow on November 22, 2013, 04:33:00 AM
Thanks for the info.

BTW... Is the internet from cable and dsl unlimited (Same as U.S.)?...Basically I will be online constantly for an 8 hour shift...watching pill bottles going down a conveyor line. Not even sure I am allowed to do this outside the country...but figured I better make sure about the internet before I ask.
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: Luftmeister on November 22, 2013, 07:07:54 AM
I'm in Knarkov right now in a rented apartment. 20 down 20 up.
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: NS1 on November 22, 2013, 12:20:14 PM
I never had issues with internet there. Direct cable is the most reliable.
but much slower than you will be used to. I did buy a wireless gig at computer shop.
Worked everywhere train, car etc. Weather can affect things at times.
But Skype with good set up works well, so if you don't need rocket speeds,
you should be fine.
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: Ladine on November 22, 2013, 12:38:27 PM
Herrie is correct. Mobile data as backup is the way to go. I can't speak for Ukraine but here one could easily use mobile data as one's primary connection and many people do just that. I understand though that mobile data is not ideal for all purposes which is why I don't use it in that way.

If you are there for some time you might be well served to buy one of the routers that, as well as handling a normal cable/phone connection have a USB socket for a 3/4g dongle, the router providing automatic rollover to the dongle if the normal connection dies. In Estonia these things cost about €30 and are no bigger than a paperback book.

In Ukraine, I sometimes use mobile communication. but it is very slow internet. can only be used for correspondence and Skype Connect. MTS (unlimited) now share gives it the first 3 months for $ 4. The following is a connection $ 3 a month. very convenient for communication. But no more. Internet is very fast, only the first 100 MB. then it drops to 32 MB \ s. But in this regard, a more than sufficient. In Ukraine, we have enough choice for internet packages.
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: andrewfi on November 22, 2013, 12:52:39 PM
Do you not get 3G mobile data where you are?

Here it is a viable replacement for a cable connection but I don't use it that way because of how mobile data works  - and also because I have a triple package of tv, phone and internet at a good price.
We also have 4G across most of the population now but the cost is too high for normal use with unlimited data. 3G unlimited data is just €12 per month.

Those dual function routers are very useful though!
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: NS1 on November 22, 2013, 01:31:03 PM
3g, depends where you are, In kiev, I could even use my I phone and google maps, to find things.
But at times disconnected. only 100% reliable I had, was when plugged in.
SOme restaurants had good wifi, could do all there, including videos.
I would suspect, much will have to do, with where you are.
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: Ladine on November 22, 2013, 01:48:07 PM
3G is used by many people. Planshet IPhone,android, mobile, I have not learned now my mobile Internet. 3G is not very expensive for us already. There is WiFi but not always free because people encode wifi for personal use. But there are places where you can find it for free. 4G I rarely meet.
my LAN (unlimited) internet is 13-15 dollars a month. it is more expensive than mobile Internet.

mobile Internet even support Chinese (copy) phones. only need to enter data manually. (It's my job now)

Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: ashbyclarke on November 22, 2013, 02:10:49 PM
You'll be fine in Odessa, most apartments have internet speeds that will be plenty good enough, those close to the main centre that advertise WIFI included would be the way to go.

Additionally all of the main high street in Odessa has free WIFI available with good connection speeds, I was able to use Skype for both video and voice calls whilst having a bite to eat.

Same goes for Kiev, not sure about other cities.

As an aside, I wouldn't suggest Odessa in winter months, my experience is Kiev is much better during this period, then Odessa has an edge on summer.

Enjoy!
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: Slumba on November 22, 2013, 03:10:39 PM
I am very happy to hear this information, and I did find the 3G sticks useful when I was in Russia, though they weren't perfect.  To have reasonably reliable DSL or cable connections would be excellent.
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: ashbyclarke on November 22, 2013, 03:18:27 PM
I am very happy to hear this information, and I did find the 3G sticks useful when I was in Russia, though they weren't perfect.  To have reasonably reliable DSL or cable connections would be excellent.

Slumba, if you are considering a visit to Ukraine I can safely say it's a dam sight cheaper than a night out in Russia!! And it's a dam sight better, IMO of course.

Free wifi pretty much everywhere is just an added bonus.

But I'm dating a lady from Russia, go figure!!
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: CC3 on November 22, 2013, 05:51:09 PM
I know this has been touched on before, but the most recent post on it I could find was from 2011. I am a pharmacist, and considering taking a 90 day trip to see what life is like in the Ukraine. I could work online for a mail order pharmacy, but I would have to have a reliable internet connection (as in no dropping offline) to do so. Anyone have up to date info on this, and if so...what cities would you suggest...Odesa looks really nice! At least from pictures.

I appreciate any info...thanks.

L'viv has the most European history, culture (great coffee houses!), architecture, and attitude of any city in Ukraine. The populace has a very independent, but pro-western, attitude. Odesa is a WM trap, especially for the inexperienced newbies to Ukraine. The cities most experienced with fleecing naive WM's are the large cities which receive the greatest amount of WM attention, i.e., Kyiv, Kharkiv, and Odesa (Ukrainian names for those cities). The two large cities that receive less WM attention, that I have spent time in, are L'viv and Donets'k. In them, you would be less likely to encounter the scammers and prodaters. L'viv is European and a wonderful place to visit; Donets'k is Russo-soviet yearning, but still a fairly pleasant city in which to spend time.

To indicate the geographic dimensions of Ukraine, Europe's largest self-contained country, disregarding the Euro-Asiatic Russia's size, L'viv is only an hour and a half flight time from my usual connection city, Munchen (Munich); Donetsk, all the way across the breadth of Ukraine from L'viv, is three hours flight time from MUC. 
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: el_guero on November 22, 2013, 11:01:15 PM
I know this has been touched on before, but the most recent post on it I could find was from 2011. I am a pharmacist, and considering taking a 90 day trip to see what life is like in the Ukraine. I could work online for a mail order pharmacy, but I would have to have a reliable internet connection (as in no dropping offline) to do so. Anyone have up to date info on this, and if so...what cities would you suggest...Odesa looks really nice! At least from pictures.

I appreciate any info...thanks.

You better have REALLY good security .....

Microsoft computers can be hacked fast in Ukraine ....

Internet is cheap, but you will have occasional outages.
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: AvHdB on November 23, 2013, 03:20:24 AM
. . . I am a pharmacist, and considering taking a 90 day trip to see what life is like in the Ukraine. I could work online for a mail order pharmacy, but I would have to have a reliable internet connection (as in no dropping offline) to do so. Anyone have up to date info on this, and if so...what cities would you suggest...Odesa looks really nice!

Odessa is like the old screen saver from MicroSoft looks good until you get to know the OS.

If you are planning on spending in the next couple months in Odessa you are in for something of a surprise, those bottles on the conveyors will look interesting after a few days/nights in Odessa. Simply said winter in Odessa is grim. If you are in Odessa during the summer it is another matter.

As has been suggested L'viv is a better option in the winter. Kivy is an amusing city but for an expat things will be more expensieve generally. There are some cities further south from L'viv that are interesting according to some. I would find any city with at least a population of 500,000 and most likely you will be fine.

As for the question regarding internet connections I have only rarely had a problem and I tend to down load a lot of stuff viewing/trolling auction sites. Though once in a while I will get a notice that I can not view a certain firms site from Ukraine, quite odd really.
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: Ladine on November 23, 2013, 04:06:15 AM
As for the question regarding internet connections I have only rarely had a problem and I tend to down load a lot of stuff viewing/trolling auction sites. Though once in a while I will get a notice that I can not view a certain firms site from Ukraine, quite odd really.

because some sites  FSU do not have mobile version of the site. (If viewing comes via mobile internet)
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: RichyRich on November 23, 2013, 04:48:52 AM
Slumba, if you are considering a visit to Ukraine I can safely say it's a dam sight cheaper than a night out in Russia!! And it's a dam sight better, IMO of course.
Ukraine is not better than Russia, it's just easier to get into, fiscally :censored: so it's too cheap, yeah Odessa is nice but I wouldn't run back there in a hurry, sooner go to Jūrmala in Latvia than anywhere in Ukraine :P
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: Haventhrow on November 23, 2013, 08:48:20 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions and advice.

 I will have to look into these other cities you guys (and girls) recommended. I have been using Elanas Models, since most people say it is the only reputable site out there. There don't seem to be many women posting from the cities you guys mentioned....I was hoping to acheive contact through the website with a few women and then pick two or three to meet when I get there. Are there  other websites more geared towards these cities....or is this a topic best started in a new thread.
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: CC3 on November 23, 2013, 09:46:37 AM

You better have REALLY good security .....

Microsoft computers can be hacked fast in Ukraine ....

Internet is cheap, but you will have occasional outages.

I always use a VPN in Ukraine, actually, anywhere in the world on public wifi; currently I use Hide My Ass...funny name, but one of the best VPN providers in the world. Very inexpensive compared to extant security threats.
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: el_guero on November 23, 2013, 02:41:18 PM
a VPN might help .... but you are still connected to your wire.

I saw routine hack attempt while in Ukraine.  More than on US cable.

And yes, HMA is rated as one of the best.
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: AvHdB on November 23, 2013, 07:39:44 PM
I will have to look into these other cities you guys (and girls) recommended. I have been using Elanas Models, since most people say it is the only reputable site out there. There don't seem to be many women posting from the cities you guys mentioned....I was hoping to acheive contact through the website with a few women and then pick two or three to meet when I get there. Are there  other websites more geared towards these cities....or is this a topic best started in a new thread.

Welcome to RUA - you can find good women and bad women in your own city. Or a state/province just over an hours drive away. You can spend six plus hours as well and find a good woman.

I would suggest starting a new thread in introductions and listen to the widely differing opinions and thoughts. Some will be negative, others will espouse that there way is the best way. Anyways before you invest time and money listen to the opinions and move forward from there.
Title: Re: How good are internet connections in Ukraine?
Post by: sashathecat on December 04, 2013, 04:28:00 PM
An update on inet pricing in Ukraine as we just ran fiber to my FIL's house on the outskirts of Odessa (by the airport). The run including labor and material was $150 and the monthly fee is around 8-10 bucks for what they tout as a 50 meg line. The speeds as tested are moreso in the 3.5 meg range, but not bad considering and the skype quality is quite good.
Title: Cost of living in Ukraine
Post by: CC3 on December 05, 2013, 07:06:34 PM



Oh, and don't compare Moscow to Bugtussle, Ukraine. Of course it's more expensive in Moscow, just like it's more expensive to live in New York as opposed to Des Moines, Iowa.
 

Tremendously more expensive than Ukraine!
The average salary in Kiev is about $600usd and about $250 nationwide in Ukraine, in Moscow it's about $1800, and just under $1000 nationwide. While it is less expensive to live in Ukraine, let's try to keep things in perspective.

How many times have you been to Russia, how long were you here, and when was the last time you were here? It's just 3 simple questions that require simple answers so that we can verify the credibility of your statements. Yes, I'll ask anyone making posts in this thread these questions, so no hissy fits please.

You slay me, Danchik. Your loyalty to the Russian Empire is unquestionable! One of the reasons Ukraine appeals to me is that the people, at least the western Ukrainians, are not mindless automatons, used to kowtowing to authoritarian leaders since the invasion of the Mongols followed by the rise of the Duchy of Muscovy, morphing into the centuries long fascistic-style rule of Tsars and soviet commissars and Putin.

 I never claimed to have ever been to RF. I was simply commenting on cost of living numbers provided by another forum member. I can understand high living costs in desirable locales, such as Zurich, Hong Kong, Singapore, Aspen, San Francisco Bay area, NYC, London, Paris (all of which I have been to or lived in)...but Moscow? Give me a break. When energy BTU prices take their inevitable plunge the Russian economy will collapse like the house of cards that it is.
Title: Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
Post by: Net_Lenka on December 05, 2013, 10:20:03 PM
One of the reasons Ukraine appeals to me is that the people, at least the western Ukrainians, are not mindless automatons, used to kowtowing to authoritarian leaders since the invasion of the Mongols followed by the rise of the Duchy of Muscovy, morphing into the centuries long fascistic-style rule of Tsars and soviet commissars and Putin.
How funny ! In other thread there is now  lot of posts about history of western Ukraina wich shows those "not mindless automatons" never managed to keep own independence and always were somebodies  lackeys
 And present days proov the same - they are going to sign anything just to get a new master who would feed them and solve their problems

PS Pardone for off topic I just can't pass alone such funny defenition of western Ukrainians

As for expensive life in Moscow then the main issue is the cost of rent. Other day-after-day things could be find by low prices ( of course if visits to restaurants - boo-tics and museums are not included in your everydays needs )
Title: Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
Post by: el_guero on December 05, 2013, 11:44:26 PM
One of the reasons Ukraine appeals to me is that the people, at least the western Ukrainians, are not mindless automatons, used to kowtowing to authoritarian leaders since the invasion of the Mongols followed by the rise of the Duchy of Muscovy, morphing into the centuries long fascistic-style rule of Tsars and soviet commissars and Putin.

Bravo, CC3. Insulting the population of the whole country?  Good job! :thumbsup: Almost made me speechless.


A speechless Russian?

After being insulted?

 :ROFL:

Molly, you are TOO nice ....
Title: Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
Post by: el_guero on December 06, 2013, 12:03:40 AM

....

Is it a practice in the FSU to charge foreigners more for certain things? I did not notice this while in Ukraine, but was only there for brief periods. For example in Latin America they have the gringo tax at certain eateries where the prices are not advertised and locals pay one price while gringos pay 30% more.


G@$#@-tax is different over there. 

It is expected you pay extra for some government services, since 'you do not pay taxes here.'  My visit to the hospital was an extra $20.

Some businessmen charge the 'extra' foreigner fee.  But, only two have over charged me. Turks? or at least turkish looking.  Maybe Chechen?  Not Iranian looking .... The third who tried was also Turkish looking, and at the airport.  And all three were taxi drivers in Odesa.

Surprisingly, I saw none of that in Kiev .... there as a tourist, and knew nothing of the city.

BUT, I can say, there are HUGE local benefits, and foreigner TAXES .... But, that is across the board.  There is a favoritism scheme, I do not quite understand it, yet.  You have a 'preferred' rate from businesses because ....

And this is what I DO NOT get yet, because you have their 'special' phone line - taxis are HUGE on this, especially in Kiev, but also in the smaller cities.  Some Ukrainians seem to understand this, some do not.

Stores have 'discount' cards.  Usually 5%, but several times, I got much larger discounts, 'because,' I was becoming a preferred customer ....

Sometimes that was 'because' I was 'with' a native speaker .... sometimes it was because they recognized me.  Sometimes it was because I tried to speak Russian.  Sometimes, I was a friend of a friend.

Even in Lviv .... where I had terrible service and great service - I expect great service almost everywhere in Ukraine.

So, it is very different (but, similar in strange ways) to the G@#$%#-tax .....

I guess the short answer is let the SO deal with the cultural tax issues .... ?

Wayne
Title: Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
Post by: Millaa on December 06, 2013, 08:03:37 AM
One of the reasons Ukraine appeals to me is that the people, at least the western Ukrainians, are not mindless automatons, used to kowtowing to authoritarian leaders since the invasion of the Mongols followed by the rise of the Duchy of Muscovy, morphing into the centuries long fascistic-style rule of Tsars and soviet commissars and Putin.

Just curious what is the reason of RUA russophobia splash in the last few days?  :smokin:
I want to remind that as independant state Ukraine arose not in so distant past, and who knows how long it will be able to exist. According to recent events - not for a long.
Title: Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
Post by: Anteros on December 07, 2013, 05:35:25 PM
One of the reasons Ukraine appeals to me is that the people, at least the western Ukrainians, are not mindless automatons, used to kowtowing to authoritarian leaders since the invasion of the Mongols followed by the rise of the Duchy of Muscovy, morphing into the centuries long fascistic-style rule of Tsars and soviet commissars and Putin.

Just curious what is the reason of RUA russophobia splash in the last few days?  :smokin:
I want to remind that as independant state Ukraine arose not in so distant past, and who knows how long it will be able to exist. According to recent events - not for a long.

Don't worry about Ukraine remaining independent, worry about what's going to happen in Siberia and farther East when 100 million or more Chinese invade!   :nod:
Title: Re: Cost of living in Moscow
Post by: el_guero on February 23, 2014, 10:08:40 PM
Since Kiev is cheaper than Moscow, I am paying too much ....

:(

But, not for too long.

Wayne
Title: Re: Cost of living in Moscow
Post by: el_guero on March 18, 2014, 01:55:42 AM
I went to a mega, I think in Odessa, but it might have been Kiev.  My usual store is TavriaB (V).

Nice video, wish I had that before my first trip.

I have a market across the street from me.  Robin Bobin.  Somehow they have markets and restaurants, not sure if they are the same chain or not.

Wayne
Title: Re: Cost of living in Moscow
Post by: TomT on March 18, 2014, 08:27:32 AM
How's the wife, Wayne?
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: Herry on March 26, 2014, 10:24:09 AM
And anybody find the way to send money to Ukrain, which is cheaper and safe?
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: Vinnvinny on March 26, 2014, 10:44:03 AM
And anybody find the way to send money to Ukrain, which is cheaper and safe?

One possibility is MoneyGram (www.moneygram.com). Easy and safe for both parties and cheaper than WU.
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: Mikeav8r on March 26, 2014, 11:44:29 AM
And anybody find the way to send money to Ukrain, which is cheaper and safe?

One possibility is MoneyGram (www.moneygram.com). Easy and safe for both parties and cheaper than WU.

That's what I use.  It is to Russia but I can't imagine much difference.  There are countless locations to pick up the money as well and it can be there in a few minutes for pickup.
Title: Re: Best way to send money to Ukraine
Post by: Herrie on March 26, 2014, 11:45:58 AM
And anybody find the way to send money to Ukrain, which is cheaper and safe?
There are various ways with different logistics and costs. If you can tell how often you need to transfer and what kind of amounts we might be able to give you proper suggestions :-) My way costed me EUR 2,25 each time but it really depends on the specific situation :-)
Title: Re: Cost of living in Ukraine
Post by: mendeleyev on April 15, 2014, 11:45:23 AM
I've merged many posts and split others to put them into the proper category. When writing about the cost of living in Ukraine this is the correct thread.

If you are writing about the cost of living in Russia or Moscow, this is not the right thread.  :)
Title: Re: Cost of living in Ukraine
Post by: Art on June 04, 2014, 01:26:38 PM
MoneyGram charges about 2% fee, which is always cheaper than Western Union. If you are sending a large amount of money, a wire transfer might have a fixed fee and be cheaper.

MoneyGram and Western Union are not currently working in Crimea.
Title: Re: Cost of living in Ukraine
Post by: pycut on July 13, 2016, 05:41:23 AM
I used to send with MG because it was cheaper, but two months ago I sent money with WU, since it was cheaper than MG.
Title: Re: Cost of living in Ukraine
Post by: Steveboy on July 13, 2016, 06:25:37 AM
I used to send with MG because it was cheaper, but two months ago I sent money with WU, since it was cheaper than MG.

Its even cheaper NOT to send any.. :chuckle:

Title: Re: The Cost Of Living In Ukraine 2010
Post by: el_guero on June 24, 2017, 08:11:36 PM
gas etc is up by at least 200% if not more compared to this time last year.

Isn't that because Ukraine was stealing gas from Russia's pipelines last year and now it is paying it back via a price increase?

No, I think it was because they were getting a cut-rate deal from Russia before, but gas & oil are now moving up to market prices.

Ukraine ALWAYS paid more for gas than did Germany, even though that same gas travelled through Ukraine.
Title: Re: Cost of living in Ukraine
Post by: el_guero on June 24, 2017, 08:15:16 PM
Has the cost of living in Ukraine gotten out of control.

Nat has been there for 6 weeks now and she says the cost of everything has now gotten ridiculous bread, milk, potatoes, bus fares, taxis, electricity, gas etc is up by at least 200% if not more compared to this time last year.
She says many people in her town just can not afford to pay the un-stopable price hikes on everything that are currently going on overthere especially on basic food items she says familys that live in the cities and dont grow there own food are really struggling at the moment.

I think the perspective from locals will be that prices have gotten out of control. Now, I haven't been back in almost 18 months.

But, at current exchange rates, I found prices reasonable.

In Grivnia, I found a 25% to 50% increase over 3 years. Even though the exchange rate went up 300%.

Unlike Russian, Ukraine paid dearly after the LGM vacationing in Ukraine.

I'll try to post some items this next trip over. I won't remember what they used to be.