Russian, Ukrainian & FSU Information & Manosphere Discussion Forums

Information & Chat => Visas, Legal Paperwork and Other Documentation => Topic started by: Steveboy on November 13, 2015, 04:25:45 AM

Title: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Steveboy on November 13, 2015, 04:25:45 AM
The Russian government are thinking of bringing in a new plan where by if you are a Russian citizen and wish to travel outside Russia you will need to apply for an "Exit" visa.

http://news.rambler.ru/politics/31921068/


They say it will be for safety reasons, for example you plan to travel to paris the weekend, you must sign a declaration "I realise I may get blown up in Paris and I accept responsibility" ???

But it maybe just to keep more Russians in Russia and build the tourism up in Crimea  :)

Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Maxx on November 13, 2015, 04:42:44 AM
The bureaucracy of the Russian government stands in the way of progress, Crimea should be treated apart from the usual rules namely no visa required to enter and unlimited stays for those that qualify. But Russians adore authority even though they do their best to dodge it.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: msmoby on November 13, 2015, 05:55:59 AM
..and even if you DO make it to the airport - the tv news has been reminding you that if you have any outstanding fines - you can't leave ! :chuckle:


Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: GuppyCaptain on November 13, 2015, 06:36:49 AM
One step closer to their communist dictatorship past. This is starting to read like a predictable book.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: yankee on November 13, 2015, 06:50:40 AM
One step closer to their communist dictatorship past. This is starting to read like a predictable book.

When I was young and did a lot of traveling the only thing I needed was a ticket.  I could even use that ticket on another airine.  If I wanted to I could give my ticket to another person (no name was on the ticket).

there was no screening also.  To leave the US and go to Canada and mexico I did not need a passport.  In the past 30 years or so we have lost many of our freedoms. 

So which country is going in the wrong direction??
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: WestCoast on November 13, 2015, 07:11:26 AM
Perhaps Russia will start requiring visas for foreigners to exit Russia?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: GuppyCaptain on November 13, 2015, 07:12:36 AM
I make no argument that the US is definitely going in the wrong direction. None. This is a little different. You can leave the US without a passport. You just can't reenter.

In this case, you need permission from your government to even LEAVE the country. That's a drastic difference and one that can easily be exploited and abused by Putin and his clan or whomever his successor is.

It's another way to control the public just like state owned TV propaganda. Really, it doesn't take a genious to figure out where this has the potential to lead.

I ask, what honest and benevolent purpose does this serve for the Russian government. Do some of you actually have your heads that far up your rear ends to defend all the actions of a government that is blantantly and increasingly headed right down the pike to the decades of totalitarian dictatorship that preceded the early 90s'. Tell me you're not that blind, or maybe you haven't had the "privelage" of living under such a society to recognize the warning signs and gradual progression towards it (there's plenty of them here in the US as well).

Puleeez people.  (:)
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: yankee on November 13, 2015, 07:16:07 AM
I make no argument that the US is definitely going in the wrong direction. None. This is a little different. You can leave the US without a passport. You just can't reenter.

And which port of exit can you do that?
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: GuppyCaptain on November 13, 2015, 07:32:17 AM
Any. You can leave but you can't come back.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Steveboy on November 13, 2015, 07:37:04 AM
Perhaps Russia will start requiring visas for foreigners to exit Russia?  :laugh:

They do some times if you over stay your visa. It happened to me once and cost me a $400 fine, on top of the cost to make an exit visa.  ;D
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: andrewfi on November 13, 2015, 08:18:00 AM
Here you are all getting your knickers in a twist over a possible proposal where the form and nature of the beast has not yet been disclosed.

No wonder some of you all get so easily confused.

Here's the deal: CLICK HERE! (http://govoritmoskva.ru/news/58933/)

In essence there is a call, arising from the recent air disaster, for a way to provide detailed information to Russians before they travel abroad. The speaker on the radio program, a Duma member, Vadim Solovyov, said that there were various ways on the table to communicate information to travelers before they travel. It was made clear that there was no intention, if such a scheme was introduced, to restrict travel, just to ensure that travelers know of specific, notified risks and that they accept the consequences arising from their choice.

As a traveler, I know to look at the UK.gov sites for specific destinations, but most travelers do not and thus travel completely uninformed. Some form of concrete notification seems to make sense to me - especially in the context, for Russia, of heightened risks to travelers. Unlike, for example, the US where the government simply bans people from traveling to certain destinations, Solovyov made it clear that this was not on the cards - people go where they want, but they go having made an informed choice.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: msmoby on November 13, 2015, 09:08:55 AM
Andrewfi

As you know Russians cannot go where they want
Anywhere the natiin has an extradition treaty with the yanks...if you work for the govt....you can't go.

Just keeping you 'honest'...




.

Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Manny on November 13, 2015, 09:27:35 AM
As you know Russians cannot go where they want

By this, I assume you are saying they are banned from some places like Americans are with Cuba? Enlighten us, where cant Russians go?

..and even if you DO make it to the airport - the tv news has been reminding you that if you have any outstanding fines - you can't leave ! :chuckle:

The UK stop you now if you owe big tax, VAT or child support on exit. They try not to howl it from the rooftops, but the system is in place. How well it actually works I am not sure. That would be a reasonable rule though Cant pay your fines/bills? Cant travel.

Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: andrewfi on November 13, 2015, 09:40:09 AM
Moby, as so often happens, you are showing signs of confusion. Whether the confusion is an honest one due to an information deficit, or a less honest pretence due to your boredom and innate characteristics I don't know.

So, yes, some Russians working in certain areas of government work are restricted in terms of travel. That is hardly a big surprise given work related security constraints. Now that your information deficit is corrected you can, I am sure, honestly agree that this is a rather different and limited case as compared to overall restrictions upon travel destinations imposed by certain other places; or even, as Manny notes, restrictions upon exit for various choices of several well known countries.

To reiterate, the possible proposal, one of several possibilities being considered, is an information transfer system from government to citizens and does not envisage a restriction of travel upon individuals.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Ste on November 13, 2015, 09:46:48 AM
As you know Russians cannot go where they want

By this, I assume you are saying they are banned from some places like Americans are with Cuba? Enlighten us, where cant Russians go?

..and even if you DO make it to the airport - the tv news has been reminding you that if you have any outstanding fines - you can't leave ! :chuckle:

The UK stop you now if you owe big tax, VAT or child support on exit. They try not to howl it from the rooftops, but the system is in place. How well it actually works I am not sure. That would be a reasonable rule though Cant pay your fines/bills? Cant travel.

UKVI have a link to HMRC and no doubt by now, CSA or whatever it's called now.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: andrewfi on November 13, 2015, 10:05:20 AM
Lest we forget, in the UK, the government routinely withdrawn foreign travel rights from various groups of people at the discretion of said government. Famously this has been applied to football fans.

Quote
Under previous guidelines, a variety of reasons could already give rise to the withdrawal of a passport or the rejection of an application.

Mrs May said people facing an arrest warrant, court orders, bail restrictions, international orders from the European Union or United Nations could all have their passports reviewed.

Football hooligans could face travel bans under the new system, Mrs May said.

A Home Office spokesman added: “The criteria for applying the Royal Prerogative have been updated to reflect the current range of powers that can be used to place travel or passport restrictions on an individual, such as football banning orders.”
Daily Mirror (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/theresa-take-passports-wannabe-jihadists-1853654)
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Markje on November 13, 2015, 10:31:34 AM
In this case, you need permission from your government to even LEAVE the country. That's a drastic difference and one that can easily be exploited and abused by Putin and his clan or whomever his successor is.
No, this is simply red tape for profitable exploitation, if the government wants to keep you in the country they can simply deny to issue your passport and revoke the one you have.

Mark
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: WestCoast on November 13, 2015, 10:37:33 AM
Lest we forget, in the UK, the government routinely withdrawn foreign travel rights from various groups of people at the discretion of said government. Famously this has been applied to football fans.

Quote
Under previous guidelines, a variety of reasons could already give rise to the withdrawal of a passport or the rejection of an application.

Mrs May said people facing an arrest warrant, court orders, bail restrictions, international orders from the European Union or United Nations could all have their passports reviewed.

Football hooligans could face travel bans under the new system, Mrs May said.

A Home Office spokesman added: “The criteria for applying the Royal Prerogative have been updated to reflect the current range of powers that can be used to place travel or passport restrictions on an individual, such as football banning orders.”
Daily Mirror (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/theresa-take-passports-wannabe-jihadists-1853654)

You're comparing UK citizens who are accused of some type of crime or otherwise been placed under court/government supervision and football hooligans (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hooligan) to the average Russian citizen? You seem to have a rather low opinion of Russian citizens. 

Note I supplied the definition of football hooligan for you since for some inexplicable reason you seem to think it means 'football fan'.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: andrewfi on November 13, 2015, 11:20:43 AM
Westcoast, you are getting confused ...again.

As you can see from the linked article and quoted words this is not just about people convicted of crimes, indeed, most people would not have been found guilty of any crime.

As you'd have seen, if you'd done the reading before blundering in with your chubby fingers, football fans can have their passports withdrawn simply based upon where they were standing. I don't know about you but to describe a football fan who is not convicted of any crime of being a football hooligan seems a tad, inaccurate.

As I was not making a comparison with any Russians I think that, again, you were being confused by, something.

Here's a small suggestion for you. Why not check that you have read and understood a post before pecking away at a reply. Indeed, it may be worthwhile to remember the maxim:
Quote
It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it.
Maurice Switzer
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: yankee on November 13, 2015, 02:58:20 PM
Any. You can leave but you can't come back.

If you don't have proper id they wont let you pass.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: WestCoast on November 13, 2015, 03:46:55 PM
Westcoast, you are getting confused ...again.

Not at all.

As you can see from the linked article and quoted words this is not just about people convicted of crimes, indeed, most people would not have been found guilty of any crime.

I was only referencing the types of people you quoted in your post however by all means let's look at the entire article from the Mirror. In addition to the individuals you quoted the Mirror article also mentions 'wannabe jihadists'. Are you seriously defending the rights of 'wannabe jihadists' to have passports? Had a few too many pints at the local pub and the ability to travel to the ME for training with the likes of ISIS?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/theresa-take-passports-wannabe-jihadists-1853654

As you'd have seen, if you'd done the reading before blundering in with your chubby fingers
bolding above mine

Before you start calling anyone 'chubby' take a look at your avatar, look at the photos you use all over the Internet. What are you 50 or 70 pounds overweight? More? Best you start talking to your doctor about a long term plan for diet and exercise. 


football fans

Nowhere in the article is the phrase 'football fan' used. Reread the article. The phrase used is 'Football hooligans'.

As I was not making a comparison with any Russians I think that, again, you were being confused by, something.


So in the middle of a thread to do with Russians needing exit visas to leave Russia you decided to post something about UK criminals, UK jihadists and UK football hooligans that has absolutely nothing to do with Russians needing exit visas to leave Russia?

Definitely time to cut back on your drinking Andrew.

Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Millaa on November 13, 2015, 11:22:10 PM
Any. You can leave but you can't come back.

If you don't have proper id they wont let you pass.

I remember we didn't take boat trip in Portland because I had no ID.
Btw, why does GuppyCaptain keep silence about violation citizen's rights in Israel or Cambodia? You should pay money for exit there.  ;D
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: andrewfi on November 14, 2015, 12:56:56 AM
Westy, it may have escaped your notice over the seven decades of your life on earth but rarely/never does a person's physique have an impact upon any other person's appearance. My appearance has no bearing upon your corpulence,  you are no more or less slender as a result of my body weight. What a strange view of the world you have.

In our world,  but maybe not yours, a discussion sometimes takes a slight tangent however I am sure that even in your world you'd think that being addressed as a rapist,  for example,  without ever having been convicted,  or even tried for such a crime would be incorrect,  the wrong thing to do. Thus,  in my world a football fan who has not been tried or convicted of any crime associated with hooliganism is not a hooligan,  but a football fan? Do you not get that? By the same token a person who has not been tried or convicted of any crime related to 'jihadism' whatever that might mean is not a 'jihadist' just a person. That's the ethical weakness of these travel bans. It is why the issue is worth noting when people like you are choosing to make disparaging comparisons based upon a concerted effort to not learn,  to not understand and to not think.

To remind you this thread is about the possibility of a proposal to aid the Russian state in informing it's citizens about the risks associated with travel to certain foreign destinations. Specifically,  the possible proposal is not,  about restrictions upon travel as has been assumed by those here who chose to not apprise themselves of the known facts of the matter in favour of fantasies based upon prejudice.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: msmoby on November 14, 2015, 01:23:44 AM

As you know Russians cannot go where they want

By this, I assume you are saying they are banned from some places like Americans are with Cuba? Enlighten us, where cant Russians go?

This should help..

http://barentsobserver.com/en/security/2014/05/russia-bans-police-emergency-and-military-employees-traveling-abroad-13-05 (http://barentsobserver.com/en/security/2014/05/russia-bans-police-emergency-and-military-employees-traveling-abroad-13-05)


A British policemen - I checked - is free to go where he likes - having checked the Foreign and Commonwealth advisory info... a Russian DPS guy who might direct traffic is NOT allowed to travel  to many nations.

Here's a list of nations that signed extraditions treaties - it's a long one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties)

I'm guessing Cuba and Venezuela's aren't being enforced  - but if US /Cuba relations continue improving ...



On top of this it is now policy to 'suggest' that if you work for other  govt. departments - NOT - to take holidays abroad - in nations with these extradition agreements.


https://www.rt.com/politics/161992-russian-judges-extradition-vacation/ (https://www.rt.com/politics/161992-russian-judges-extradition-vacation/)

This even extended to a municipal planning office - Someone we know had to cancel her plans to holiday in Turkey .

I hope you are suitably enlightened.

BTW. I think stopping people at the airport for non payment of taxes, child support and cancelling of driving licences / permits is a great idea ...
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Manny on November 14, 2015, 01:38:18 AM
Your RT link is a sensible precaution that some people must take due to the legal system in the US.

Moby, you said:

Quote
As you know Russians cannot go where they want

This is untrue.

What you later submitted as proof is that people in certain jobs are unable to travel abroad. If they are unhappy with this, one assumes they can get a different job with a different security risk.

You may have been correct to say: "As you know, some Russians cannot go where they want due to occupational security restrictions".
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: msmoby on November 14, 2015, 01:47:02 AM
Moby, you said:

Quote
As you know Russians cannot go where they want

This is untrue.

What you later submitted as proof is that people in certain jobs are unable to travel abroad. If they are unhappy with this, one assumes they can get a different job with a different security risk.

You may have been correct to say: "As you know, some Russians cannot go where they want due to occupational security restrictions".

Sighs, yes... I should have been more clear....We both know that Russia being top heavy on the Public sector front means this excludes a lot - probably the majority of Russian families. Many US citizens travel to Cuba as Tourists via third nations

Your attempt to make the US seem the sole 'controlling' state - esp as US citizens can visit family in Cuba and there's no restrictions on usage of US bank cars whilst there means you simply highlighted that the Russian govt is more controlling
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Manny on November 14, 2015, 09:44:19 AM
You may have been correct to say: "As you know, some Russians cannot go where they want due to occupational security restrictions".

yes... I should have been more clear....

There you go.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: yankee on November 14, 2015, 09:58:46 AM

You may have been correct to say: "As you know, some Russians cannot go where they want due to occupational security restrictions".

This can also be said of the USA.  My mother's very close friend was not allowed to leave the USA.  If he was granted permission to leave he required body guards and could not fly over certain countries.

There are many restrictions for thoes that have (or had) various clearances.

Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Steveboy on November 14, 2015, 01:08:39 PM

As you know Russians cannot go where they want

By this, I assume you are saying they are banned from some places like Americans are with Cuba? Enlighten us, where cant Russians go?

This should help..

http://barentsobserver.com/en/security/2014/05/russia-bans-police-emergency-and-military-employees-traveling-abroad-13-05 (http://barentsobserver.com/en/security/2014/05/russia-bans-police-emergency-and-military-employees-traveling-abroad-13-05)


A British policemen - I checked - is free to go where he likes - having checked the Foreign and Commonwealth advisory info... a Russian DPS guy who might direct traffic is NOT allowed to travel  to many nations.

Here's a list of nations that signed extraditions treaties - it's a long one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties)

I'm guessing Cuba and Venezuela's aren't being enforced  - but if US /Cuba relations continue improving ...



On top of this it is now policy to 'suggest' that if you work for other  govt. departments - NOT - to take holidays abroad - in nations with these extradition agreements.


https://www.rt.com/politics/161992-russian-judges-extradition-vacation/ (https://www.rt.com/politics/161992-russian-judges-extradition-vacation/)

This even extended to a municipal planning office - Someone we know had to cancel her plans to holiday in Turkey .

I hope you are suitably enlightened.

BTW. I think stopping people at the airport for non payment of taxes, child support and cancelling of driving licences / permits is a great idea ...

If you spent as much time on looking into your visa application for your other half as you do on here along with all the detailed investigations you make, maybe she would have a visa now?
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: andrewfi on November 14, 2015, 01:23:06 PM
So, we understand then the 'visa' thing is bunkum and that moby is the most bored little man in the world.

I bet socialising with him must be the mooooost tedious thing in the world, well ahead of watching grass grow. And notice, again, how he absolutely can not ever be wrong about anything - it is always somebody else, or some detail that renders him 'correct' and the rest of us just intellectual insects compared to his 'mobyness'.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: GuppyCaptain on November 14, 2015, 06:42:07 PM

You may have been correct to say: "As you know, some Russians cannot go where they want due to occupational security restrictions".

This can also be said of the USA.  My mother's very close friend was not allowed to leave the USA.  If he was granted permission to leave he required body guards and could not fly over certain countries.

There are many restrictions for thoes that have (or had) various clearances.

Your mother's very close friend is obviously not the average Joe Schmoe or Vlad or Yuritchka. I don't think her example can be used to represent the travel liberties or lack thereof of 'Mericans and Russians.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: GuppyCaptain on November 14, 2015, 07:02:16 PM
In this case, you need permission from your government to even LEAVE the country. That's a drastic difference and one that can easily be exploited and abused by Putin and his clan or whomever his successor is.
No, this is simply red tape for profitable exploitation, if the government wants to keep you in the country they can simply deny to issue your passport and revoke the one you have.

Mark

Oh for crying out loud. It's another step/measure that can be abused for less that benevolent reasons.

http://commongoodvt.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/03/horse-blinders1.jpg
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: cdnexpat on November 15, 2015, 10:28:47 AM
Any. You can leave but you can't come back.

If you don't have proper id they wont let you pass.

It may happen.
When we left Toronto for Moscow last month, our passports were never checked. The e-ticket was a return flight, so they did not bother at registration to check for valid visa where we were going. No stamps in the passport either, when you leave Canada. My wife was truly amazed. In Tashkent, you must show your passport 7 times when leaving the country.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: cdnexpat on November 15, 2015, 10:45:14 AM
I worked with diplomats from a few countries, who had travel restrictions. First, the family had to stay behind, and then, they had to request specific clearances for visits.

I think the exit visa are a relic from soviet times. They still use them in the stans. Here, residents can get two types. One is for FSU countries, and the other, for all the countries in the world. This is another bureaucratic nonsense administered by OVIR.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: yankee on November 15, 2015, 10:47:45 AM
I worked with diplomats from a few countries, who had travel restrictions. First, the family had to stay behind, and then, they had to request specific clearances for visits.

I think the exit visa are a relic from soviet times. They still use them in the stans. Here, residents can get two types. One is for FSU countries, and the other, for all the countries in the world. This is another bureaucratic nonsense administered by OVIR.

If you have a work visa in Indonesia one needed an exit visa,  back in the 1980s it cost about $200.

Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: GuppyCaptain on November 15, 2015, 12:25:29 PM
Any. You can leave but you can't come back.

If you don't have proper id they wont let you pass.

ID or passport? They are two different things. You can leave the US without a passport. Re-entry is a different matter.

Case in point.......As airline flight crew, I ALWAYS depart for an international layover without having my passport checked and ALWAYS have it checked upon re-entry.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: yankee on November 15, 2015, 12:29:28 PM
Any. You can leave but you can't come back.

If you don't have proper id they wont let you pass.

ID or passport? They are two different things. You can leave the US without a passport. Re-entry is a different matter.

Case in point.......As airline flight crew, I ALWAYS depart for an international layover without having my passport checked and ALWAYS have it checked upon re-entry.

Looks like they treat air crew differently.  Hope you never foreget to take your passport with you
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Manny on November 15, 2015, 02:03:59 PM
When we left Toronto for Moscow last month, our passports were never checked. The e-ticket was a return flight, so they did not bother at registration to check for valid visa where we were going. No stamps in the passport either, when you leave Canada. My wife was truly amazed.

Same last time we left the US.

I was really surprised. One thinks of the US as a place where security is really stringent. It should be on UK/EU bound fights especially. But we drifted out with not even a passport check. At first, I thought I had wandered down the wrong aisle in error........
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: andrewfi on November 15, 2015, 03:15:10 PM
I worked with diplomats from a few countries, who had travel restrictions. First, the family had to stay behind, and then, they had to request specific clearances for visits.

I think the exit visa are a relic from soviet times. They still use them in the stans. Here, residents can get two types. One is for FSU countries, and the other, for all the countries in the world. This is another bureaucratic nonsense administered by OVIR.

There is no exit visa.
There was a proposal for a possible document, among several options, the purpose being to have a way to inform travelers about specif risks incurred by traveling to certain places. Specifically excluded from the possible proposal was any option to stop people from traveling. In truth 'exit visa' would seem to have been a less than optimal choice of name for a document that is no more than a way for the state to be sure that the citizen knows the risks of traveling to certain destinations.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Markje on November 15, 2015, 03:15:47 PM
Any. You can leave but you can't come back.

If you don't have proper id they wont let you pass.

ID or passport? They are two different things. You can leave the US without a passport. Re-entry is a different matter.

Case in point.......As airline flight crew, I ALWAYS depart for an international layover without having my passport checked and ALWAYS have it checked upon re-entry.
In most of Europe, your passport is checked upon leaving the country, aircrew included. I noticed that Aircrew lost some privileges last summer, they were waiting in line with the passangers.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Markje on November 15, 2015, 03:17:13 PM
No, this is simply red tape for profitable exploitation, if the government wants to keep you in the country they can simply deny to issue your passport and revoke the one you have.

Mark

Oh for crying out loud. It's another step/measure that can be abused for less that benevolent reasons.
How? If your passport is revoked , you can't leave shengen, I was surprised to learn you can actually exit the USA without passport.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: AvHdB on November 15, 2015, 05:59:32 PM
No, this is simply red tape for profitable exploitation, if the government wants to keep you in the country they can simply deny to issue your passport and revoke the one you have.

Mark

Oh for crying out loud. It's another step/measure that can be abused for less that benevolent reasons.
How? If your passport is revoked , you can't leave shengen, I was surprised to learn you can actually exit the USA without passport.

Only partially true, you need an document that allows you to board an airplane that is either flying to Mexico or Canada. Elsewhere only a blue booklet will work for boarding an international flight.

Bear in mind the airline is responsible for any return costs should they allow you to fly without documents.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: GuppyCaptain on November 15, 2015, 08:11:56 PM
Any. You can leave but you can't come back.

If you don't have proper id they wont let you pass.

ID or passport? They are two different things. You can leave the US without a passport. Re-entry is a different matter.

Case in point.......As airline flight crew, I ALWAYS depart for an international layover without having my passport checked and ALWAYS have it checked upon re-entry.

Looks like they treat air crew differently.  Hope you never foreget to take your passport with you

They'd still let me back in (as they would a regular passenger as well). It would just be a pain in the ass. If you have a smartphone always have a screenshot of your passport or a photocopy if you don't. It's a starting point if you lose it.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: msmoby on November 16, 2015, 04:12:55 AM

How? If your passport is revoked , you can't leave shengen, I was surprised to learn you can actually exit the USA without passport.

Many Schengen nations have id cards - I could fly with CY id - no passport necessary to the UK/Ireland
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Annushka on November 18, 2015, 07:12:07 PM
Boys, you are not tired to discuss the fakes from the Internet? ;D
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Markje on November 19, 2015, 12:46:15 AM

How? If your passport is revoked , you can't leave shengen, I was surprised to learn you can actually exit the USA without passport.

Many Schengen nations have id cards - I could fly with CY id - no passport necessary to the UK/Ireland
Whats your point? you still can't leave shengen without a passport.

Many refugees travel freely within shengen with 0 identification, including the UK.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: msmoby on November 19, 2015, 02:21:24 AM
I could enter and leave Schengen nations with an ID card..that is my point...no passport

.

Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Manny on November 19, 2015, 04:31:12 PM
Many refugees travel freely within shengen with 0 identification, including the UK.

Can you clarify that please, Mark?
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Markje on November 20, 2015, 12:51:31 AM
Many refugees travel freely within shengen with 0 identification, including the UK.

Can you clarify that please, Mark?

Sure, why else would tons of refugees be piling up at Calais, its the most clear proof we have.

1) How did they get there?
Because no border controls are active between shengen states. Once they are in, they can travel freely to Calais.
2) Why do they still go there?
Because Britains are not sending them back, if they saw people getting back as fast as they risk their lives going to the UK, they would not still be there, trying to get in.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: msmoby on November 20, 2015, 01:30:39 AM
Markje,

You'll note I asked Manny for the ratio of successful UK Political Asylum applications v Refusals - I did not see a response - yet.

So, where do you get this idea that the British do not repatriate  ?

As you may know non possession of ID makes it hard to repatriate - if already in the UK -  and it also makes it hard to prove one's nationality / case for P.A - if entering - which is difficult at places like Calais

It's pretty hard to board a plane / ship to the UK without a passport / visa / id as appropriate - so - as the numbers getting through the tunnel are not that great - surely the case is moot  ?

Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: Markje on November 20, 2015, 02:27:47 AM
Markje,

You'll note I asked Manny for the ratio of successful UK Political Asylum applications v Refusals - I did not see a response - yet.

So, where do you get this idea that the British do not repatriate  ?
Because it isn't advertised if they are, which is the point i'm making. If I can't see them turning back, neither can hopeful refugees waiting at calais for their chance to enter GB.

As you may know non possession of ID makes it hard to repatriate - if already in the UK -  and it also makes it hard to prove one's nationality / case for P.A - if entering - which is difficult at places like Calais
Really? You know exactly whence they came, from calais. Simply send them back if they have no valid Passport to enter UK. How hard can that be with proper border controls that they claim to have. Why do you need to know their country of origin: They cannot enter: They are sent back the same road: To calais. This simple logic worked for ages before Shengen, why does it not work now.

Answer: There are no border controls that function normally @ dover.

It's pretty hard to board a plane / ship to the UK without a passport / visa / id as appropriate - so - as the numbers getting through the tunnel are not that great - surely the case is moot  ?
The ones getting through aren't turned back ,they claim asylum the second they land in Dover and GB isnt telling them turn around because procedure of shengen says you must apply from the first country you entered the EU, which is clearly not GB.

Mark.
Title: Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
Post by: andrewfi on November 20, 2015, 02:49:47 AM
Markje, most illegal immigrants/asylum seekers/undocumented migrants/whatever ARE turned back. The UK in 2014 had 32K asylum applications of which just 10K were granted.

Of course some folks disappear from the system, maybe too many, but the fact is that most illegals are turned away. Generally not immediately, but back they go. Perhaps because they are not simply put on a truck and sent back to France when picked up in Dover or the surrounding area the perception is that they get to stay, but it ain't so.

The problem is that these folks arrive because the French allow them to do so. Each person in the camps at Calais should either be processed by France, or returned from whence they came. That does not happen.

Incidentally, during the same year, the French accepted a mere 20% of asylum applications compared to the relatively generous UK with 20%. Germany accepted about 40%. Most applications, as I recall, to the UK come not from folks trotting through tunnels but from people able to get on an aircraft and clamber off at Heathrow.

Worth a read for those interested in some of the objective points of this discussion (OK, that means the link will probably go unclicked ;) ) CLICK HERE! (http://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/commentary/calais-and-clandestine-migration-uk-concerns-and-context)