Russian, Ukrainian & FSU Information & Manosphere Discussion Forums
Information & Chat => News & Political Discussion => Topic started by: GriffinCO on February 22, 2015, 08:39:13 AM
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I thought this should probably go in the jokes thread. :chuckle:
But it's believable enough he'd say something like this, so I put it here instead. :)
http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/02/putin-russia-military-power/ (http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/02/putin-russia-military-power/)
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That isn't what he said. Read the source and you wouldn't make these gaffes. As usual, we see media distortion, and a quote taken out of context before it is twisted.
What he actually said, during a speech to veterans for Defender of the Fatherland Day was:
Comrades, we all know well what great responsibility our armed forces and all of our security and law enforcement services bear today. They are responsible for our country’s peace, security and stable development.
No one should harbour any illusions about it being possible to achieve military supremacy over Russia or to use pressure against us in any way or form. Russia will always have an adequate response to any such reckless actions.
«We all know well what great responsibility our armed forces and all of our security and law enforcement services bear today. They are responsible for our country’s peace, security and stable development.»
Our soldiers and officers have shown that they are ready to act decisively, with coordinated precision, professionalism and courage to carry out even the most difficult and novel missions, as befits a well-trained and experienced modern army that preserves its traditions and military spirit and is constantly improving and setting the highest modern standards as its benchmark.
We have done much over these last years to make our military command system more efficient and build up groups of troops in the areas of greatest strategic importance. We are successfully carrying out an ambitious programme to modernise the army and navy, including active modernisation of our air and space defences and nuclear forces. This is the guarantee of global parity.
We will continue to do everything needed to ensure that the armed forces continue to build up their capability. I want to stress that we will carry out our military development plans no matter what the circumstances, and there should be no doubt about this.
Read it all in context for yourself from the horses mouth: http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/23632
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I thought this should probably go in the jokes thread. :chuckle:
But it's believable enough he'd say something like this, so I put it here instead. :)
http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/02/putin-russia-military-power/ (http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/02/putin-russia-military-power/)
It might be believable, but only to you, sweetie... Here is the speech in original (the transcript)
http://kremlin.ru/transcripts/47720
"За последние годы многое сделано для повышения эффективности системы военного управления, для формирования группировок войск на важнейших стратегических направлениях. Успешно реализуется масштабная программа перевооружения армии и флота, в том числе активно совершенствуется система воздушно-космической обороны и ядерные силы. Это гарантия глобального паритета.
Будем и впредь делать всё необходимое, чтобы Вооружённые Силы уверенно наращивали свой потенциал. Подчеркну: при любых обстоятельствах планы военного строительства будут выполнены, в этом нет никакого сомнения."
ETA Manny, you and i cross-posted. This:
We have done much over these last years to make our military command system more efficient and build up groups of troops in the areas of greatest strategic importance. We are successfully carrying out an ambitious programme to modernise the army and navy, including active modernisation of our air and space defences and nuclear forces. This is the guarantee of global parity.
We will continue to do everything needed to ensure that the armed forces continue to build up their capability. I want to stress that we will carry out our military development plans no matter what the circumstances, and there should be no doubt about this.
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That isn't what he said. Read the source and you wouldn't make these gaffes. As usual, we see media distortion, and a quote taken out of context before it is twisted.
What he actually said, during a speech to veterans for Defender of the Fatherland Day was:
Comrades, we all know well what great responsibility our armed forces and all of our security and law enforcement services bear today. They are responsible for our country’s peace, security and stable development.
No one should harbour any illusions about it being possible to achieve military supremacy over Russia or to use pressure against us in any way or form. Russia will always have an adequate response to any such reckless actions.
«We all know well what great responsibility our armed forces and all of our security and law enforcement services bear today. They are responsible for our country’s peace, security and stable development.»
Our soldiers and officers have shown that they are ready to act decisively, with coordinated precision, professionalism and courage to carry out even the most difficult and novel missions, as befits a well-trained and experienced modern army that preserves its traditions and military spirit and is constantly improving and setting the highest modern standards as its benchmark.
We have done much over these last years to make our military command system more efficient and build up groups of troops in the areas of greatest strategic importance. We are successfully carrying out an ambitious programme to modernise the army and navy, including active modernisation of our air and space defences and nuclear forces. This is the guarantee of global parity.
We will continue to do everything needed to ensure that the armed forces continue to build up their capability. I want to stress that we will carry out our military development plans no matter what the circumstances, and there should be no doubt about this.
Read it all in context for yourself from the horses mouth: http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/23632
The horse's mouth in question has lost all credibility in a large percentage of the world. (:)
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Doesn't alter the facts Gupster, that isn't what he said. I know facts can sometimes be inconvenient over the pond as they distort your view of reality.
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:thumbsup:
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I thought it was probably taken out of context but the headline was too funny to pass up. After all Putin did just say how embarrassing it must be to lose to farmers and coal miners. Then have reports come out of Russian media about Russian involvement in that battle.
America may not want to tangle with Russia, but the thought that it was superior to the US military gave me a chuckle.
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but the thought that it was superior to the US military gave me a chuckle.
I suppose it might depend on how you define superiority. Despite a large military, you lot seem to not do awfully well with the many wars that you start; usually against blokes riding camels. Have you ever taken on a military comparable to Russia? I don't recall you have. It wouldn't be like dropping bombs on Muslims in the desert with a few drones. That I think is the message that was meant to go out there. That and the fact they heard your war drums already and wont roll over.
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but the thought that it was superior to the US military gave me a chuckle.
I suppose it might depend on how you define superiority. Despite a large military, you lot seem to not do awfully well with the many wars that you start; usually against blokes riding camels. Have you ever taken on a military comparable to Russia? I don't recall you have. It wouldn't be like dropping bombs on Muslims in the desert with a few drones. That I think is the message that was meant to go out there. That and the fact they heard your war drums already and wont roll over.
I'm glad you bring that up, Manny. Actually I do know the differences brewery the two conventional forces. Russia is still playing catch up and is about 15 years away from being able to match America's current capability.
Their Navy is in shambles (only one half way working aircraft carrier) and their Air Force isn't much better.
There were never any real war drums from the US. Russia knows it cannot hope to match the US in a conventional engagement, thus all the nuclear saber rattling for the last 6-12 months.
So be proud of Putin and the Russian military's success against an army that was virtually non-existent before this conflict started. But I'll advise you not to get delusions of adequacy against the United States military.
Take a queue from Putin, as you typically do, and understand Russia's distant second position as the world's most powerful combat nation.
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Take a queue from Putin, as you typically do, and understand Russia's distant second position as the world's most powerful combat nation.
Isn't China militarily more capable placing Russia lower than second? That's more your subject than mine.
I don't think its really a question of who is "number one", rather who would be a pushover. And Russia simply wouldn't be.
Your lot are stretched around the world in your current wars, no doubt Venezuela is on the hit list as well as haven't you just failed with a regime change there? And your ISIS mess will take some fixing en route to a Syria invasion. I know there are a lot of you, but can you simultaneously spread democracy invade everywhere at once? It seems doubtful doesn't it?
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isn't it national forgiveness day in Russia, today..I so miss Mendy
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Your lot are stretched around the world in your current wars, no doubt Venezuela is on the hit list as well as haven't you just failed with a regime change there? And your ISIS mess will take some fixing en route to a Syria invasion. I know there are a lot of you, but can you simultaneously spread democracy invade everywhere at once? It seems doubtful doesn't it?
Well there's always your lot to give them a hand like they usually do. ;D
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Your lot are stretched around the world in your current wars, no doubt Venezuela is on the hit list as well as haven't you just failed with a regime change there? And your ISIS mess will take some fixing en route to a Syria invasion. I know there are a lot of you, but can you simultaneously spread democracy invade everywhere at once? It seems doubtful doesn't it?
Like Putin's Russia hasn't tried regime change, undermining western leaning leaderships in it's immediate neighbors, Manny
IS came about because of a power vacuum - helped along by Russia and China ensuring Assad could remain in power and oppress calls for democracy.
The US has been supplanted as the nation most likely to cause wars.
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IS came about because of a power vacuum - helped along by Russia and China ensuring Assad could remain in power and oppress calls for democracy.
IS came about because the US funded and trained them to do some dirty work. Really Moby, do some reading: http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/08/22/realize-u-s-funded-trained-isis-right/
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Take a queue from Putin, as you typically do, and understand Russia's distant second position as the world's most powerful combat nation.
Isn't China militarily more capable placing Russia lower than second? That's more your subject than mine.
I don't think its really a question of who is "number one", rather who would be a pushover. And Russia simply wouldn't be.
Your lot are stretched around the world in your current wars, no doubt Venezuela is on the hit list as well as haven't you just failed with a regime change there? And your ISIS mess will take some fixing en route to a Syria invasion. I know there are a lot of you, but can you simultaneously spread democracy invade everywhere at once? It seems doubtful doesn't it?
Russia is definitely more powerful than China...China does not even have strategic bombers or a blue water capable fleet. And Russia is no pushover, I agree there.
As for the other countries, we're winding down our invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. Venezuela is small peanuts and imploding. And Obama doesn't like to invade anyone anymore...downright un-American of him. While that sounds like it's good news, we're consolidating our forces and are likely to have a Republican for our next president who won't be as shy about using them.
As for me, I personally think we should stay out of as many military conflicts as possible. Let the entire middle east implode, we can be self-sufficient with oil now. Russia is pretty well cornered between the expansion of NATO, China and the Pacific. Continue to pull the strings to undermine Russian and Chinese interests. Project power on occasion as a reminder to the world we're there.
Really, when I think about it we're an unpredictable bunch. Managing the U.S. as a foreign power has got to be hair-pulling for everyone else.
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USA is listed #1
Russia # 2
China # 3,
But go and read, list of equipment,
Russia has massive amount of tanks
and some out dated armour trucks.
But with Planes and modern equipment, it is not even close.
Manny in manny of those little side wars, the US only sent a small amount of gear.
If they sent half their ships and planes, it would not be long Putin
would push that big red button, to try and win.
I think he is crazy enough to do it too :D
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but the thought that it was superior to the US military gave me a chuckle.
I suppose it might depend on how you define superiority. Despite a large military, you lot seem to not do awfully well with the many wars that you start; usually against blokes riding camels. Have you ever taken on a military comparable to Russia? I don't recall you have. It wouldn't be like dropping bombs on Muslims in the desert with a few drones. That I think is the message that was meant to go out there. That and the fact they heard your war drums already and wont roll over.
Iraq had the fourth largest army in the world before the first Gulf war. As Griffin says, we are many years ahead of the others in regards to our military strength. Our newest weapons come out of science fiction movies. Our failures lie with occupying and stabilizing a region afterwards.
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but the thought that it was superior to the US military gave me a chuckle.
I suppose it might depend on how you define superiority. Despite a large military, you lot seem to not do awfully well with the many wars that you start; usually against blokes riding camels. Have you ever taken on a military comparable to Russia? I don't recall you have. It wouldn't be like dropping bombs on Muslims in the desert with a few drones. That I think is the message that was meant to go out there. That and the fact they heard your war drums already and wont roll over.
Iraq had the fourth largest army in the world before the first Gulf war. As Griffin says, we are many years ahead of the others in regards to our military strength. Our newest weapons come out of science fiction movies. Our failures lie with occupying and stabilizing a region afterwards.
WTF Manny are you smoking wet hasish or is it just too much vodka - OBL DEAD, Saddam Hussein DEAD, Qadaffy DEAD - One Quarter Million Al Qaeda Jihadis DEAD, 1 Million+ ISIS Members give or take 200,000+/- active fighters from Iraq to Libya, Mali and Morocco ( They are already targets) - our Military is breathtakingly dedicated and professional and capable, a 100+ on a scale of one to ten. Our incompetent politicians however are a -100.
The war we (UK, NATO & USA) are fighting with Radical Islam is multi-generational with people who want to behead and immolate you and all those you love. We are stopping them where they live before they spread to your homes and shopping centers along with your home grown ISIS Training Mosques all across the UK.
Fortunately there are a lot of young loyal UK blokes who both train and fight along side of us and are the hope for the future of your Politically Correct Social Justice Warrior confused empire.
Even though you are incredibly anti allies and ungrateful you are never the less welcome.
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Take a queue from Putin, as you typically do, and understand Russia's distant second position as the world's most powerful combat nation.
Isn't China militarily more capable placing Russia lower than second? That's more your subject than mine.
I don't think its really a question of who is "number one", rather who would be a pushover. And Russia simply wouldn't be.
Your lot are stretched around the world in your current wars, no doubt Venezuela is on the hit list as well as haven't you just failed with a regime change there? And your ISIS mess will take some fixing en route to a Syria invasion. I know there are a lot of you, but can you simultaneously spread democracy invade everywhere at once? It seems doubtful doesn't it?
Russia is definitely more powerful than China...China does not even have strategic bombers or a blue water capable fleet. And Russia is no pushover, I agree there.
As for the other countries, we're winding down our invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. Venezuela is small peanuts and imploding. And Obama doesn't like to invade anyone anymore...downright un-American of him. While that sounds like it's good news, we're consolidating our forces and are likely to have a Republican for our next president who won't be as shy about using them.
As for me, I personally think we should stay out of as many military conflicts as possible. Let the entire middle east implode, we can be self-sufficient with oil now. Russia is pretty well cornered between the expansion of NATO, China and the Pacific. Continue to pull the strings to undermine Russian and Chinese interests. Project power on occasion as a reminder to the world we're there.
Really, when I think about it we're an unpredictable bunch. Managing the U.S. as a foreign power has got to be hair-pulling for everyone else.
Griff for prez. I'd agree with much of your politics.
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Even though you are incredibly anti allies and ungrateful you are never the less welcome.
cufflinks ,
until the real totality of the evil out there in the world hits home to manny he will take the neville chamberlin road of action
its not on his doorstep , se he can still look at it through his rose coloured glasses while watching RT in the sunroom
SX
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Even though you are incredibly anti allies and ungrateful you are never the less welcome.
cufflinks ,
until the real totality of the evil out there in the world hits home to manny he will take the neville chamberlin road of action
its not on his doorstep , so he can still look at it through his rose coloured glasses while watching RT in the sunroom
SX
There are a lot of young OZ blokes fighting along with us as solid allies - thank them and buy them a beer for me too when you see them.
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To all the true believers:
I am really glad that so many individuals on this Site are so Pro-Russian that any rational discussion about Russian strength or aggression are dismissed. I have found that when individuals can't accept the facts or have their minds made up they will immediately go into their default arguments of "well it is you that are being influenced by Western media...Oh no my media gives me nothing but the facts". These True Believers are so vested with their views that they are blinded by them. This is actually a good thing.
As an ex-military man with black ops. experience, the biggest advantage any military force can have, is an adversary that truly does believe it is Superior. Most countries with weak Armed Forces can do one thing...That is beat their chest and Bloviate...sound familiar??? This behavior is all factored into the mix. The US does not get all concerned when Russian fighters violate our air space in Alaska or the Gulf of Mexico. No we actually scramble some old fighters from our National Guard units and shoo them away. These intruders never see the super fast technical advanced fighters with lazer mounted weapons....those are in hangers far away.
As I have mentioned in this forum before. It is really quite simple. A Socialistic or Communistic government/country will NEVER be able to out think or out produce a free market democracy. It is in the human genes....people will work 10 times as hard to come up with inventions or solutions if they believe they will have a vested interest (monetarily or otherwise) in the outcome. That means new materials, faster electronics, lazar guidance systems, smarter operating personnel...cutting edge technologies. Why do you think we are the #1 producer of Natural Gas and Oil.....you guessed it - Our Technology. We don't have to go steal it from some other country, we create it here. BTW the old spy trick is to actually let your adversaries steal some of your technology giving them the false sense of Superiority, all the while the 3rd. and 4th. generation advances are already being incorporated into your weapons systems.
So you see, True Believers and Useful Idiots are very important in maintaining the advantage once the real "Shit Hits The Fan". Once they realize they made a hugh mistake it will be all over. One last note - Believers will always default to things like "But Russia has so many Nuclear Weapons it could destroy the world". I hate to break it to all you Believers, but Nuclear Weapons (although formatable) are so outdated. Technological advancements can render every one launched as useless as most of these discussion.
Keep on sniffing the glue and drinking the vodka...tear your shirt open and beat on your chest....we need you just the way you are!!!!
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Even though you are incredibly anti allies and ungrateful you are never the less welcome.
cufflinks ,
until the real totality of the evil out there in the world hits home to manny he will take the neville chamberlin road of action
its not on his doorstep , so he can still look at it through his rose coloured glasses while watching RT in the sunroom
SX
There are a lot of young OZ blokes fighting along with us as solid allies - thank them and buy them a beer for me too when you see them.
Cuffy you'll appreciate this man,
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/12/02/former-canadian-soldier-says-first-battle-against-isis-was-greatest-day-of-his-life/
Given the choice he would still be in the battle, killing those ISIS fighters.
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Even though you are incredibly anti allies and ungrateful you are never the less welcome.
cufflinks ,
until the real totality of the evil out there in the world hits home to manny he will take the neville chamberlin road of action
its not on his doorstep , so he can still look at it through his rose coloured glasses while watching RT in the sunroom
SX
There are a lot of young OZ blokes fighting along with us as solid allies - thank them and buy them a beer for me too when you see them.
Cuffy you'll appreciate this man,
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/12/02/former-canadian-soldier-says-first-battle-against-isis-was-greatest-day-of-his-life/
Given the choice he would still be in the battle, killing those ISIS fighters.
For those who might be interested in following his lead. Dillon Hillier joined the 1st North American Expeditionary Force, a private organization that is providing aid to anyone who wants to help the Kurds in their fight against the Islamic State of Iraq and Al-Sham.
They have their own website and Facebook page.
http://www.1naef.com/
https://www.facebook.com/1stNorthAmericanExpeditionaryForce
However the Canadian government is discouraging people from joining. Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird said the government had “virtually no capacity” to assist Canadians in the region. “Look at joining the Canadian Forces, look at humanitarian work,” he advised. Somehow I doubt ISIS would be allowing consular visits if they captured a Canadian fighter helping the Kurds.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/12/01/canadians-warned-not-to-join-fight-against-isis-as-interest-grows-among-veterans/
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this guy might know a thing or two about aviation tactics ?
andrew in advance please dont bother with any of your rubbish responses , :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
SX
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/russian-war-planes-rehearsing-attacks-uk-airspace-british-military-chief-1489022
Russian war planes skirting British airspace are rehearsing military missions, a top defence chief has warned.
Air Chief Marshall Lord Stirrup said cases of Russian aircraft flying in international airspace near to Britain raise the risk of an air disaster involving civilian flights.
Lord Stirrup spoke up following two incidents in which Russian bombers were spotted perilously close to UK airspace in Hampshire and Cornwall. In the first incident, British Typhoon fighters were forced to escort two giant Russian bombers deep back in to international airspace
In the first incident, British Typhoon fighters were forced to escort two giant Russian bombers deep back into international airspace
Lord Stirrup said the incidents showed Russia was becoming more "aggressive" and that the missions were intended to test Britain's defences.
He raised the terrifying prospect of a Russian military bringing down a civilian jumbo jet in a mid-air collision.
"They are becoming more aggressive. These aircraft – Russian Bears for example – are not going on these very flights simply as joy rides. They are mission rehearsals," he told Sky News.
Russian bombers intercepted over English Channel were reportedly 'carrying nuclear missile'(Shamil Zhumatov/Reuters file photo)
"They are testing us, they are testing our defences, they are testing our reactions and they are engaging to a degree in a game of chicken and that's very dangerous.
"So we are seeing the possibility of mid-air collision, not between RAF and Russia aircraft, but between Russian aircraft and civilian aircraft, increasing."
Lord Stirrup called by boosted defence spending in order to protect Britain from increasing Russian hostility.
Ukraine is bearing the brunt of Russian aggression with Russian-backed rebels – aided by regular army units in disguise - invading eastern Ukraine for territory.
Stirrup said western countries such as Britain could place themselves in "dangerous" position by failing to maintain a credible military force
"Nato over the years, in the eyes of Putin at least, has become weak. Putin views the West as weak all round and that is a very, very dangerous position for us to be in,' he said.
"My concern is that Nato is not spending enough resource on defence. If Nato is weak or is perceived to be weak by Putin then the risk of miscalculation is much greater and our security is much lowered as a result."
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Southern, I'll go out on the limb and say that this Stirrup fellow in the article (or the journalist themself) is simply fear-mongering. While I have no doubt that Russia is increasingly "poking" the West's airspace, quite frankly it's really not much to worry about. This game of cat & mouse has played out for decades; well into the Cold War.
As far as a mid-air with a civilian airliner? Not impossible but highly unlikely.
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GUPPY CAPTAIN
yes its been going on for yonks , however it was interesting to see such views expressed coming out of mannys home base ,from his country ex military officers
such type of article he usually refers to as war mongering being typically driven out of the US
been a few voices of concern out of the uk recently about their military spending or lack thereoff etc
this english guy in the story is probably lying though , ;D
lord stirrup has a reasonable track record in this area
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_Stirrup,_Baron_Stirrup
SX
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Even though you are incredibly anti allies and ungrateful you are never the less welcome.
cufflinks ,
until the real totality of the evil out there in the world hits home to manny he will take the neville chamberlin road of action
its not on his doorstep , so he can still look at it through his rose coloured glasses while watching RT in the sunroom
SX
There are a lot of young OZ blokes fighting along with us as solid allies - thank them and buy them a beer for me too when you see them.
Cuffy you'll appreciate this man,
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/12/02/former-canadian-soldier-says-first-battle-against-isis-was-greatest-day-of-his-life/
Given the choice he would still be in the battle, killing those ISIS fighters.
Fortunately he is back in North America where he can help spear head defense against native ISIS/ISIL/IS sympaticos and demented deviant degenerate despicable PC Social Justice Warriors demanding that Canada a member of the UK Commonwealth take in islamo radicals as a breeding ground of future ISIS recruits with passport access to North America (Same as USA SJWs).
Need to build up NRA membership in Canada and USA as well and vote in real pro self defense laws and lawmakers.
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Need to build up NRA membership in Canada
:o
Fuk no! We don't need those whackos up here promoting a gun culture. It's as stupid as Ted Nugent grabbing a mic and telling Ontario Canucks to drop the spring bear hunt. My advice to Teddy is go back to Michigan and lobby you own fuking politicians, you're a guest in my country and don't fukin forget it. Fuk
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That isn't what he said. Read the source and you wouldn't make these gaffes. As usual, we see media distortion, and a quote taken out of context before it is twisted.
What he actually said, during a speech to veterans for Defender of the Fatherland Day was:
Comrades, we all know well what great responsibility our armed forces and all of our security and law enforcement services bear today. They are responsible for our country’s peace, security and stable development.
No one should harbour any illusions about it being possible to achieve military supremacy over Russia or to use pressure against us in any way or form. Russia will always have an adequate response to any such reckless actions.
«We all know well what great responsibility our armed forces and all of our security and law enforcement services bear today. They are responsible for our country’s peace, security and stable development.»
Our soldiers and officers have shown that they are ready to act decisively, with coordinated precision, professionalism and courage to carry out even the most difficult and novel missions, as befits a well-trained and experienced modern army that preserves its traditions and military spirit and is constantly improving and setting the highest modern standards as its benchmark.
We have done much over these last years to make our military command system more efficient and build up groups of troops in the areas of greatest strategic importance. We are successfully carrying out an ambitious programme to modernise the army and navy, including active modernisation of our air and space defences and nuclear forces. This is the guarantee of global parity.
We will continue to do everything needed to ensure that the armed forces continue to build up their capability. I want to stress that we will carry out our military development plans no matter what the circumstances, and there should be no doubt about this.
Read it all in context for yourself from the horses mouth: http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/23632
Reads normal to me (especially considering past Russian military history) but what was he referring to with this?
"Our soldiers and officers have shown that they are ready to act decisively, with coordinated precision, professionalism and courage to carry out even the most difficult and novel missions, as befits a well-trained and experienced modern army that preserves its traditions and military spirit and is constantly improving and setting the highest modern standards as its benchmark."
Afghanistan, Chechnya(x2), Georgia or Ukraine? Or is he referring to the several drills performed over the past year or so? I am only wondering because I am not sure what exactly they have "shown". Just looking for clarification.
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but the thought that it was superior to the US military gave me a chuckle.
I suppose it might depend on how you define superiority. Despite a large military, you lot seem to not do awfully well with the many wars that you start; usually against blokes riding camels. Have you ever taken on a military comparable to Russia? I don't recall you have. It wouldn't be like dropping bombs on Muslims in the desert with a few drones. That I think is the message that was meant to go out there. That and the fact they heard your war drums already and wont roll over.
Since 1945, has anyone? Manny, with all due respect, the US only brings what it needs to the party. If it's camels (as you so fondly reference) then we bring what is necessary to take out a camel. If it is a nation as big as Russia, we would bring what is necessary to engage the force they have (which is what we have prepared for and developed the technology for for decades). All the technology we have was developed in order to stay well ahead of Russia and has been tested in some small form in the past 20 years or so.
We have been ready for Russia for years and if it ever came down to it (and I certainly hope to God it wouldn't), we are more than prepared and more than capable of handling any threat they could muster. They rattle the nuclear saber because they know they can't defeat us in a conventional manner and if that were to ever happen, no one would be defeated..the world would cease to exist as we know it. I doubt, and pray, they are not stupid enough to do something like that.
Hopefully we can all be friends again soon.
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http://rt.com/news/244317-usa-poland-thunderbolt-drills/
NATO continues to push Putin's button to :coffeeread:
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http://rt.com/news/244317-usa-poland-thunderbolt-drills/
NATO continues to push Putin's button to :coffeeread:
In most respects the interests of NATO and the US can be considered as being synonymous given that over 75% of NATO funding is from the US. In addition NATO's leadership is seeking a justification for its existence following the end of its purpose with the dissolution of the Soviet Union. The current silliness is the justification of a whole heap of careers for generals who have only ever commanded a desk and blotter. They will not give up this opportunity to give meaning to their entire career.
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IS came about because of a power vacuum - helped along by Russia and China ensuring Assad could remain in power and oppress calls for democracy.
IS came about because the US funded and trained them to do some dirty work. Really Moby, do some reading: http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/08/22/realize-u-s-funded-trained-isis-right/
Now I can respond and you can be sure I read far more selectively than you - hence arrive at more sensible/ pragmatic conclusions
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The current silliness is the justification of a whole heap of careers for generals who have only ever commanded a desk and blotter. They will not give up this opportunity to give meaning to their entire career.
Somewhere else on this forum today you criticise a member for 'comprehension issues' - again- and yet here you are - conveniently forgetting - which nation has been physically and militarily involved in undermining neighbouring states and had to use vetoes to block overwhelming resolutions for them to desist.
Remind us how many US Tanks were present in Europe just over a year and a half ago...
As someone who would have been very happy to see NATO expenditure cut back - prior to the Kremlin redrawing frontiers - I have to wonder if your grey matter is suffering some sort of selective short circuit re appraising the situation...
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http://rt.com/news/244317-usa-poland-thunderbolt-drills/
NATO continues to push Putin's button to :coffeeread:
In most respects the interests of NATO and the US can be considered as being synonymous given that over 75% of NATO funding is from the US. In addition NATO's leadership is seeking a justification for its existence following the end of its purpose with the dissolution of the Soviet Union. The current silliness is the justification of a whole heap of careers for generals who have only ever commanded a desk and blotter. They will not give up this opportunity to give meaning to their entire career.
Seriously - WTF why we are paying over 75% of the costs of defending you EURO SLACKERS?????
And you lot have 500 Million first world wealth engines and can not support and protect yourselves - No wonder Chairman Putin of Russia OAO snears at your Chamberlainesque sanctions.
No wonder we have to pay small business (LLC etc) taxes at an effective Obamanation rate of 90% and growing - Gawd how I love the Nomad Capitalist.
Everything I do now is dedicated to overcoming you EURO slackers as well as our own home grown Obamzimbawe welfare slackers
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http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russian-fighter-jet-nearly-collides-with-u-s-spy-jet-over-europe/
This happened over International airspace, but had the U.S. not been peeking over the fence, then this incident wouldn't have happened.
Sooner or later, there will be an escalated incident that could involve retaliatory action.
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http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russian-fighter-jet-nearly-collides-with-u-s-spy-jet-over-europe/
This happened over International airspace, but had the U.S. not been peeking over the fence, then this incident wouldn't have happened.
Sooner or later, there will be an escalated incident that could involve retaliatory action.
Those flights and flights like them have occurred in various forms for more than 30 years by both sides. More recently, say the last decade plus; they were covered as 'acceptable' by the open skies and other treaties signed by both the RF, US, and others..
Oh and in case they left this part out in your spoon fed 2 minute sound byte this am...The Russian are doing the same damn thing and more worldwide...
Now we'll let you get back to your regularly scheduled ignorance infused cool aid break...
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3067609/Putin-unveils-new-Russian-tank-1993-powerful-gun-huge-arsenal-sophisticated-military-hardware.html
Here's a look at one of Putin's new tanks
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3067609/Putin-unveils-new-Russian-tank-1993-powerful-gun-huge-arsenal-sophisticated-military-hardware.html
Here's a look at one of Putin's new tanks
Very nice. Manned by soldiers that have to beg for money off foreigners last the last time I was in Moscow....
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3067609/Putin-unveils-new-Russian-tank-1993-powerful-gun-huge-arsenal-sophisticated-military-hardware.html
Here's a look at one of Putin's new tanks
Very nice. Manned by soldiers that have to beg for money off foreigners last the last time I was in Moscow....
1989?
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2005 lol! Bet nowts changed, I'll find out next month...
.
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If the tank works as promised the Russians might try building an aircraft carrier. Not just any aircraft carrier but the largest aircraft carrier in the world, dwarfing anything the US has. The new super carrier would be able to carry 100 planes, have cutting-edge electronics and missile systems and a sleek hull that drag — the resistance created when a ship moves through the water — has been reduced by as much as 20 percent.
The irony is that Russia has no history of building aircraft carriers. The carriers the Soviet Union built were all built in Ukraine according to Dmitry Gorenburg, an expert in the Russian navy at the Virginia-based CNA Corporation. Even if this project gets the green light, for various reasons it is decades away from completion according to the article. With such a time frame to completion it's unlikely Putin will still be in power if this super carrier ever goes to sea.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-wants-an-aircraft-supercarrier-but-can-it-build-one/517990.html
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If the tank works as promised the Russians might try building an aircraft carrier. Not just any aircraft carrier but the largest aircraft carrier in the world, dwarfing anything the US has. The new super carrier would be able to carry 100 planes, have cutting-edge electronics and missile systems and a sleek hull that drag — the resistance created when a ship moves through the water — has been reduced by as much as 20 percent.
The irony is that Russia has no history of building aircraft carriers. The carriers the Soviet Union built were all built in Ukraine according to Dmitry Gorenburg, an expert in the Russian navy at the Virginia-based CNA Corporation. Even if this project gets the green light, for various reasons it is decades away from completion according to the article. With such a time frame to completion it's unlikely Putin will still be in power if this super carrier ever goes to sea.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-wants-an-aircraft-supercarrier-but-can-it-build-one/517990.html
Being a former Nuclear High Speed Hunter Killer Fast Attack Submariner (No Kidding) we have a term for Giant Aircraft Carriers = "TARGETS" - damn things can be tracked by low res weather Sats anywhere in the world - new Magnetic Anomaly detection satellites are so sensitive they can track them any any other steel hulled ship above or below water at all times anywhere on the planet. Sometimes the Rooskie Bigger and biggest of all mentality is not necessarily better. :smokin:
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Sometimes the Rooskie Bigger and biggest of all mentality is not necessarily better. :smokin:
You mean that it is good for the USN but not anyone else?
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Being a former Nuclear High Speed Hunter Killer Fast Attack Submariner (No Kidding) we have a term for Giant Aircraft Carriers = "TARGETS" - damn things can be tracked by low res weather Sats anywhere in the world - new Magnetic Anomaly detection satellites are so sensitive they can track them any any other steel hulled ship above or below water at all times anywhere on the planet. Sometimes the Rooskie Bigger and biggest of all mentality is not necessarily better. :smokin:
That's what I have thought as well. Today they can spot it from space and launch a missle from half way around the planet to take it out. Or am I totally off on this one?
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Being a former Nuclear High Speed Hunter Killer Fast Attack Submariner (No Kidding) we have a term for Giant Aircraft Carriers = "TARGETS" - damn things can be tracked by low res weather Sats anywhere in the world - new Magnetic Anomaly detection satellites are so sensitive they can track them any any other steel hulled ship above or below water at all times anywhere on the planet. Sometimes the Rooskie Bigger and biggest of all mentality is not necessarily better. :smokin:
That's what I have thought as well. Today they can spot it from space and launch a missle from half way around the planet to take it out. Or am I totally off on this one?
As Cuffy should know well the Americans surround their aircraft carriers with a flotilla of naval combat vessels when an aircraft carrier is at sea. If the Russians are going to copy the US model not only would the Russians need to build a super carrier but they would also need to build the other combat vessels that make up the a carrier's escort fleet.
Even more costs for the Russian government in a time of an economic downturn. In other words it's not too likely that Putin is going to be building a super carrier anytime soon. Maybe a couple of nuclear powered coast guard ice breakers to keep their northern sea routes open and some much smaller naval combat vessels built in partnership with India and China. Both of whom are having teething problems building their own military forces.
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One nuclear tipped subrock gets through and its bye bye task force and everything else in a 60 mile radius - one of the reasons we stopped using them - suicide weapons.
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Being a former Nuclear High Speed Hunter Killer Fast Attack Submariner (No Kidding) we have a term for Giant Aircraft Carriers = "TARGETS" - damn things can be tracked by low res weather Sats anywhere in the world - new Magnetic Anomaly detection satellites are so sensitive they can track them any any other steel hulled ship above or below water at all times anywhere on the planet. Sometimes the Rooskie Bigger and biggest of all mentality is not necessarily better. :smokin:
That's what I have thought as well. Today they can spot it from space and launch a missle from half way around the planet to take it out. Or am I totally off on this one?
USA, Russia and China have agreed not to weaponize space - now that our brilliant Obama sanctions have given Russia license to call off all treaties its pretty much anything goes ... yes the Crazy Ivans are capable of detecting and eliminating threats with their mega subrocks ... remember water does not compress like air so a nuclear subrock that descends to 100 feet or so then explodes sends off a compressive omni-directional shock wave in the water that acts like a direct hit even many miles away. Literally crushes hulls.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/11586021/How-Putins-military-firepower-compares-to-the-West.html
Putin has improved the military, but it still is not as modern as the west.
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https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/hidden-challenges-modernizing-russias-military
Russia might have made it difficult to modernize their military, as some of the key components were manufactured in Ukraine.
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Russia's state of the art tank they say is so much more advanced than any American tank stopped during the final Victory Day rehearsal. After an attempt to tow it failed, the T-14 rolled away under its own steam about 15 minutes later. Hope Putin wasn't in attendance. :laugh:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/05/07/russia-state-art-tank-stops-during-parade-rehearsal/
(http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/U.S./876/493/0507%20russian%20tank.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
May 7, 2015: Russian army officers discuss a situation with a crew member of the new Russian T-14 Armata tank at the Red Square. (AP)
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but the thought that it was superior to the US military gave me a chuckle.
I suppose it might depend on how you define superiority. Despite a large military, you lot seem to not do awfully well with the many wars that you start; usually against blokes riding camels. Have you ever taken on a military comparable to Russia? I don't recall you have. It wouldn't be like dropping bombs on Muslims in the desert with a few drones. That I think is the message that was meant to go out there. That and the fact they heard your war drums already and wont roll over.
I'm glad you bring that up, Manny. Actually I do know the differences brewery the two conventional forces. Russia is still playing catch up and is about 15 years away from being able to match America's current capability.
Their Navy is in shambles (only one half way working aircraft carrier) and their Air Force isn't much better.
There were never any real war drums from the US. Russia knows it cannot hope to match the US in a conventional engagement, thus all the nuclear saber rattling for the last 6-12 months.
So be proud of Putin and the Russian military's success against an army that was virtually non-existent before this conflict started. But I'll advise you not to get delusions of adequacy against the United States military.
Take a queue from Putin, as you typically do, and understand Russia's distant second position as the world's most powerful combat nation.
I know this is an old post, and I don't really have modern insight into the powers of either army. But I do know this. In WWII, the Russians would attack entrenched forces protected by mine fields as though the mines were not there and the entrenched guns were of no importance. I realize today's Russians may not be 1940's Russians, but they are for sure not 2010's Americans who have gotten used to such an easy life.
Our troops are great men, but they are limited by voters and politicians back home who refuse to accept casualties as an inevitable part of war. I don't think Putin would be facing the media and voter battle our leaders here do, and would also have a nation steeped in pride resulting from a heritage of unmatched ferocity during WWII.
Most Americans wrongly assume we somehow brought the Nazis down ourselves or possibly slightly assisted by England. They need to study history and see exactly how significant the Russian participation was in the European Theater. In school in the 60's I was taught the Germans were just stupid and gave away the war in Russia through inept strategy and poor planning. Not the case at all. They just met more committed troops willing to pay a much higher price.
Now I don't know all the specifics concerning who's hardware works better, who has more bombs or missiles or sheer numbers of troops. But I do have a pretty good idea who would tire of the price of war first.
Just so everyone knows. I am a proud US military veteran from the 70's, love my country, and am in total support of our troops. But I am also believer in history and a realist. Lobbing some drones and missiles at insurgents is not the same as going to war with a superpower. Commitment to winning is every bit as important as equipment, and probably more so. I believe Russia would have a significant advantage on the USA in an all out war.
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Slightly assisted? Just remember WW2 started in 1939 not 1941 and the Nazi's first bloody nose was The Battle of Britain in 1940.....
There are possibly hundreds of 'turning points' in WW2 in my opinion I'd say the cracking of the Enigma codes was possibly the greatest victory, (Turing/Polish version not U-571 version).
All IMHO!
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Slightly assisted? Just remember WW2 started in 1939 not 1941 and the Nazi's first bloody nose was The Battle of Britain in 1940.....
There are possibly hundreds of 'turning points' in WW2 in my opinion I'd say the cracking of the Enigma codes was possibly the greatest victory, (Turing/Polish version not U-571 version).
All IMHO!
Hi Ste, let's give credit to those in the east who were used like cannon fodder by Stalin for stopping Hitler from getting to the oilfields of Azerbaijan.
While we're at it, we need to thank the Serbs for distracting Hitler in the Balkans as this bloody nose also delayed Operation Barbarossa and meant Hilter's blitzkrieg strategy literally bogged down west of Moscow - giving the Soviets time to regroup and reorganise production east of the Urals... and make lots of tanks in your other half's city...
YUP ..knowing the Nazi's plans sure helped
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Most Americans wrongly assume we somehow brought the Nazis down ourselves or possibly slightly assisted by England. They need to study history and see exactly how significant the Russian participation was in the European Theater. In school in the 60's I was taught the Germans were just stupid and gave away the war in Russia through inept strategy and poor planning. Not the case at all. They just met more committed troops willing to pay a much higher price.
Slightly assisted? Just remember WW2 started in 1939 not 1941 and the Nazi's first bloody nose was The Battle of Britain in 1940.....
There are possibly hundreds of 'turning points' in WW2 in my opinion I'd say the cracking of the Enigma codes was possibly the greatest victory, (Turing/Polish version not U-571 version).
All IMHO!
It has astounded me how little most students learn here, even at university level. In my first year in law school I often hung out with two of my classmates. We had all studied history fairly extensively in undergrad. During one of our conversations one of them asserted that the French suffered more casualties than any other Western country in the two world wars. The other two of us looked at each other in shock because we knew that this was just not true, in fact not even close to being true.
We walked down the street to the main university library that afternoon (this was during pre-internet days). The casualty figures were easily found. As I recall, France wasn't even in the top four, because it surrendered so early in the second world war. The question was total casualties in both world wars combined. It was quite some time ago but my memory was that the countries ranked something like this:
Russia (or, USSR in the second world war)
Germany
Britain
Austria (the total for which I assume included casualties of the Austro-Hungarian Empire in the first world war)
then possibly France, although I think there might have been one other country ahead of France.
The total for Russian casualties was far more than that for French casualties. And this girl had been a history major at Vanderbilt University, a good university.
Regarding the next points, I suppose the major turning point in the war in Europe was either Stalingrad or Kursk. I've seen good arguments made for each of these. But Kursk was such a devastating defeat for Nazi Germany that it was never again able to launch a major offensive against the Soviets.
Some might argue that the turning point was even earlier, in the December 1941 counterattack after the Nazi advance had stalled out just miles from Moscow.
Britain's cracking of the Enigma code was the greatest signals intelligence coup of the war in Europe.
The USSR had the best human intelligence of the war. The Red Orchestra and the Lucy Ring produced a great deal of good intelligence. And the Sorge ring in Tokyo was probably the most important espionage effort in history. Sorge himself had thoroughly penetrated the Germany embassy. One of his men was placed in the highest levels of Japan's government, as a top aide to Prince Konoye if I remember correctly.
Sorge reported to Moscow that the Nazis were going to invade the USSR, and approximately when. Stalin didn't believe him. Six months later he reported to Moscow that the Japanese were going to attack South, into British and US colonies, rather than farther North, into Soviet territory. This time Stalin believed Sorge. He had kept substantial troops in the Far East in order to protect against a Japanese attack. Indeed there had already been one or two Japanese incursions into Soviet territory.
As a result of Sorge's intelligence Stalin ordered a great many troops, tanks, and planes from the Far East to Moscow and they were instrumental in the Soviet counterattack.
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Putin spends £5m on making sure it doesn't rain on his V-Day Parade: Jets to spike clouds with chemical cocktail (but it means villages 40 miles away will get deluged)
Putin really is trying to be God. :chuckle:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3071598/Putin-spends-5m-cloud-dispersing-chemicals-sprayed-jets-ensure-good-weather-V-Day-Parade.html
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Putin spends £5m on making sure it doesn't rain on his V-Day Parade: Jets to spike clouds with chemical cocktail (but it means villages 40 miles away will get deluged)
Putin really is trying to be God. :chuckle:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3071598/Putin-spends-5m-cloud-dispersing-chemicals-sprayed-jets-ensure-good-weather-V-Day-Parade.html
Cloud seeding is not new in Russia.
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Putin spends £5m on making sure it doesn't rain on his V-Day Parade: Jets to spike clouds with chemical cocktail (but it means villages 40 miles away will get deluged)
Putin really is trying to be God. :chuckle:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3071598/Putin-spends-5m-cloud-dispersing-chemicals-sprayed-jets-ensure-good-weather-V-Day-Parade.html
Cloud seeding is not new in Russia.
Couple times there was stuff falling from the sky while I was in Moscow, I figured they were at that time seeding the clouds trying to make it rain. That was late July and August of 2010
Didn't seem to do anything the fires kept burning for a few weeks.
I think it's a hit or miss.
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:offtopic:
Here's a video showing the United states air force new future fighter jets.and other weapons
I think Russia would have their hands full with these planes taking out their defences.
On the ground Russia may have an advantage. But in the air and by sea, Russia is not in the same league..
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Measuring Russia vs the US is so counterproductive for human civilization when you consider all the problems that could be solved by Russia-US cooperation. There's too much war already.
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Measuring Russia vs the US is so counterproductive for human civilization when you consider all the problems that could be solved by Russia-US cooperation. There's too much war already.
+1
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:offtopic:
Here's a video showing the United states air force new future fighter jets.and other weapons
I think Russia would have their hands full with these planes taking out their defences.
On the ground Russia may have an advantage. But in the air and by sea, Russia is not in the same league..
On the sea , all Russia has to do is fly 1 jet over a boat with Aegis and its dead in the water. Just close with a sub and its like a duck-shoot.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html
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Measuring Russia vs the US is so counterproductive for human civilization when you consider all the problems that could be solved by Russia-US cooperation. There's too much war already.
That is certainly true. The problem is that for the major global power disruption and non-cooperation is a viable and proven success strategy. That is not likely to change for the better because, well, the strategy works.
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http://www.businessinsider.com/putin-just-dismissed-nearly-20-generals-2015-5
As Putin modernization of the military takes place, several of the top Generals have been dismissed.
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:offtopic:
Here's a video showing the United states air force new future fighter jets.and other weapons
I think Russia would have their hands full with these planes taking out their defences.
On the ground Russia may have an advantage. But in the air and by sea, Russia is not in the same league..
On the sea , all Russia has to do is fly 1 jet over a boat with Aegis and its dead in the water. Just close with a sub and its like a duck-shoot.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html
I call complete BULL SHITE on this entire pro RT Voltairenet article - It would be one thing to Jam comms links at altitude - the premise being the further away from the jamming target the weaker their signals the easier to jam - I was cross trained in Electronic Counter Measures and am not disclosing anything but publicly available info... NEWS FLASH the way Jamming Works is you have to emit broadcast and send Signals on the same wavelengths that are much more powerful than the source - at high altitude you might be able to emit a jamming signal that creates noise - we used to measure these signals before we surfaced so we could tell what type, pattern and strength of electromagnetic energy (Radar Waves) was being pointed at or near us... We knew every type EE known to mankind and what it meant I assure you.
To shut down an Ageis radar system the Plane would need to generate a much greater amount of Energy than the ship can - not very likely unless the Rooskies had spies at area 51 and have new alien technology in their last generation SU-24 jets...
Unless the Rooskie Crazy Ivans were willing to NUKE themselves in mid air creating an EMP or electromagnetic pulse powerful enough to temporarily blind the ageis or sink it - otherwise unlikely any aircraft can otherwise generate enough power at buzz fly by altitudes.
"a Russian electronic warfare device called Khibiny." 1977 Technology - really???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khibiny_%28electronic_countermeasures_system%29
And jamming only works when you emit a very strong signal that effs with the radar receiver - we have missiles that passively lock on to those electromagnetic signal emissions and ooops - NO MORE JAMMERs
If the crew went into port it was to avoid crazy ivans that might pull an Red Chinese crash kamikaze style into their ships - enough vodka and the Ivans get Really Crazy with their supersonic toys almost as crazy as the Red Freaking Chinese.
Going into liberty port in Romania was likely on the ships schedule - the propagandist that wrote this article was smoking some strong spice while chasing it with copious amounts of Vodka because no way the Russians perfected any PFM Jamming Systems. PFM meaning PURE FOOKING MAGIC. Yes that is a military term of art PFM. It would be PFM to do what this fantasy article claims. Our guys were likely under orders not to shoot down the Crazy Ivans which would have been an act of war... and sent them into real hysterics with nukes even.
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So its coincidence that this warship was dead in the water around the same time that the plane past, and repeated 12x to make sure it wasn't coincidence. And you can call bullshit all you want, the US-Navy confirmed that the ship was in fact , shutdown successfully.
You are also counting only 1 type of attack, you can also try to hack into the ships computers and shut them down. With careless wifi this will not be difficult, especially with pre-arranged attacks on known wifi-passwords.
Perhaps the rooskies got some vital computers to reboot which caused the shutdown during the flyby.
All things considered, I believe the evidence
1) Confirmed shutdown during passing of plane (12x , confirmed by us-navy).
Mark.
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So its coincidence that this warship was dead in the water around the same time that the plane past, and repeated 12x to make sure it wasn't coincidence. And you can call bullshit all you want, the US-Navy confirmed that the ship was in fact , shutdown successfully.
You are also counting only 1 type of attack, you can also try to hack into the ships computers and shut them down. With careless wifi this will not be difficult, especially with pre-arranged attacks on known wifi-passwords.
Perhaps the rooskies got some vital computers to reboot which caused the shutdown during the flyby.
All things considered, I believe the evidence
1) Confirmed shutdown during passing of plane (12x , confirmed by us-navy).
Mark.
Again total BULL SHITE if an Aegis Missile Cruiser was shutdown during flybys it was because the Crew shut it down so the Rooskie jet could not measure its electronic defensive capabilities up close - If you want to believe in PFM, little elves, Unicorns and Alien abductions by all means you are free to do so...
Truth is if the Aegis missile radars were turned on full power the Rooskie Pilot would have been microwaved - cooked and done during his low altitude buzzed bys - so the power was likely dialed way down to keep Rooskie Crazy Ivan from committing suicide by microwave immolation. Worse case was US DoD disinformation to keep the Crazy Ivans guessing.....
The Russians have been flying recklessly all over Europe, The Pacific and the Atlantic not to mention the Black Sea - sabre rattling with last generation ancient technology and an old jet impressive NOT...
The generally accepted purpose of these fly-bys is to "test US and Allies reaction times" sometimes best to keep them scratching their heads.
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Again total BULL SHITE if an Aegis Missile Cruiser was shutdown during flybys it was because the Crew shut it down so the Rooskie jet could not measure its electronic defensive capabilities up close - If you want to believe in PFM, little elves, Unicorns and Alien abductions by all means you are free to do so...
So you're sending a boat to impress the rooskies, but then shut it down when its time to impress..
No, that makes sense. :innocent:
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:offtopic:
Here's a video showing the United states air force new future fighter jets.and other weapons
I think Russia would have their hands full with these planes taking out their defences.
On the ground Russia may have an advantage. But in the air and by sea, Russia is not in the same league..
On the sea , all Russia has to do is fly 1 jet over a boat with Aegis and its dead in the water. Just close with a sub and its like a duck-shoot.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html
Markje, how would reporters for voltairenet know if the Russian electronic warfare device, Khibiny, on the Russian Su-24 fighter jet incapacitated the USS Donald Cook's Aegis Combat System? Because the Russian government said so? The article offers no proof the Khibiny did anything to the Aegis System.
If the Khibiny is like most of Russia's new military hardware it's simply a pile of scrap metal.
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:offtopic:
Here's a video showing the United states air force new future fighter jets.and other weapons
I think Russia would have their hands full with these planes taking out their defences.
On the ground Russia may have an advantage. But in the air and by sea, Russia is not in the same league..
On the sea , all Russia has to do is fly 1 jet over a boat with Aegis and its dead in the water. Just close with a sub and its like a duck-shoot.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html
Markje, how would reporters for voltairenet know if the Russian electronic warfare device, Khibiny, on the Russian Su-24 fighter jet incapacitated the USS Donald Cook's Aegis Combat System? Because the Russian government said so? The article offers no proof the Khibiny did anything to the Aegis System.
America never denied it.
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:offtopic:
Here's a video showing the United states air force new future fighter jets.and other weapons
I think Russia would have their hands full with these planes taking out their defences.
On the ground Russia may have an advantage. But in the air and by sea, Russia is not in the same league..
On the sea , all Russia has to do is fly 1 jet over a boat with Aegis and its dead in the water. Just close with a sub and its like a duck-shoot.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html
Markje, how would reporters for voltairenet know if the Russian electronic warfare device, Khibiny, on the Russian Su-24 fighter jet incapacitated the USS Donald Cook's Aegis Combat System? Because the Russian government said so? The article offers no proof the Khibiny did anything to the Aegis System.
America never denied it.
This is ancient military wisdom - even in the face of extreme provocation you never tip your hat and you never let your adversaries know what you are thinking or planning and you never divulge your true intentions - it is called psyops and disinformation for a reason. I double dang damn guarantee you if the US Navy wanted too shoot down that flying SU antique all they had to do was break out a couple shoulder fired stingers - why give away the true combat capability of the Aegis if not absolutely necessary - 12 supersonic flybys by a lunatic Crazy Ivan without even friend or foe identification is justification for self defense by the crew - who in retrospect showed great restraint.
But go on believing in your cherished ANTI AMERICAN propaganda all you want - the Machiavelli & Sun Tsu move here would be to install advanced anti Aircraft Batteries and Anti ballistic batteries (Passive Heat Seeking and EE Lockon as well as active radar on missiles that rocket at about 16,000+ miles per hour and are nearly 100% effective) Some of these systems can cover most of the Black Sea with over the horizon hunt and lock on capability and train our Romanian and Bulgarian EU Allies in their effective use - then add Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia along with the Nordic countries to the mix.
And then give all said parties independent control so the Rooskies never know who will feel threatened enough to defend themselves, their Airspace and their territorial integrity - just like the Rooskies do. Then the USA is not in direct acts of war with loose nuked Crazy Ivans - but has force multiplied to a point where the Rooskies Reckless Aggressive Aerobatic Adventures violating everyone else's airspace in the EU could come to an ignominious end on random and completely unknown instances. Best way to fight fire is with fire - best way to fight unpredictable Crazy Ivans is with MORE unpredictable Crazy Ivans.
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:offtopic:
Here's a video showing the United states air force new future fighter jets.and other weapons
I think Russia would have their hands full with these planes taking out their defences.
On the ground Russia may have an advantage. But in the air and by sea, Russia is not in the same league..
On the sea , all Russia has to do is fly 1 jet over a boat with Aegis and its dead in the water. Just close with a sub and its like a duck-shoot.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html
Markje, how would reporters for voltairenet know if the Russian electronic warfare device, Khibiny, on the Russian Su-24 fighter jet incapacitated the USS Donald Cook's Aegis Combat System? Because the Russian government said so? The article offers no proof the Khibiny did anything to the Aegis System.
America never denied it.
As Cuffy says why would the US say anything? If the US gives up any info that only strengthens the Russians' hand. Smarter to say nothing and let the Russians believe what they want.
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Slightly assisted? Just remember WW2 started in 1939 not 1941 and the Nazi's first bloody nose was The Battle of Britain in 1940.....
There are possibly hundreds of 'turning points' in WW2 in my opinion I'd say the cracking of the Enigma codes was possibly the greatest victory, (Turing/Polish version not U-571 version).
All IMHO!
I think you missed my point. I agree, the USA had massive support from all the allies. I was saying the average American here is taught we were the almighty power that did it all. When I was schooled in the early sixties, we were taught the American GI carried the world on their back. Only later when I started to study history as recorded by veterans of both the US and allies, did I learn how important the other nations were. Including the very brave country of England that withstood so many rocket and bombing attacks, but refused to cower.
I was in no way disparaging your country's contributions, but was rather trying to say all of the allies were great contributors to what the American history writers quickly claimed as their own.
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On the sea , all Russia has to do is fly 1 jet over a boat with Aegis and its dead in the water. Just close with a sub and its like a duck-shoot.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html
Markje
I'd be grateful if you can find where the US State dept. ''acknowledged that the crew of the destroyer USS Donald Cook has been gravely demoralized ever since their vessel was flown over in the Black Sea by a Russian Sukhoi-24 (Su-24) fighter jet which carried neither bombs nor missiles but only an electronic warfare device.'' as this article 'claims'.
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America never denied it.
Well, in the article Markje quotes the US State Dept. 'acknowledged' ... :chuckle:
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On the sea , all Russia has to do is fly 1 jet over a boat with Aegis and its dead in the water. Just close with a sub and its like a duck-shoot.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html
Markje
I'd be grateful if you can find where the US State dept. ''acknowledged that the crew of the destroyer USS Donald Cook has been gravely demoralized ever since their vessel was flown over in the Black Sea by a Russian Sukhoi-24 (Su-24) fighter jet which carried neither bombs nor missiles but only an electronic warfare device.'' as this article 'claims'.
I didn't find the confirmation yet, but I did find on the veterans board, that 27 crewmembers of the cook, refuse to board a ship with aegis or simply went AWOL completely.
So something DID happen!
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/13/aegis-fail-in-black-sea-ruskies-burn-down-uss-donald-duck/
Mark.
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I didn't find the confirmation yet, but I did find on the veterans board, that 27 crewmembers of the cook, refuse to board a ship with aegis or simply went AWOL completely.
So something DID happen!
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/13/aegis-fail-in-black-sea-ruskies-burn-down-uss-donald-duck/
Mark.
Markje,
The first line is a clue - the rest is quoting stories in the media:
''Editorial note: We are told the story is a month old. If any of this is true, then this is a huge issue, not just the lack of follow up but the lack of follow up itself.''
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On the sea , all Russia has to do is fly 1 jet over a boat with Aegis and its dead in the water. Just close with a sub and its like a duck-shoot.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html
Markje
I'd be grateful if you can find where the US State dept. ''acknowledged that the crew of the destroyer USS Donald Cook has been gravely demoralized ever since their vessel was flown over in the Black Sea by a Russian Sukhoi-24 (Su-24) fighter jet which carried neither bombs nor missiles but only an electronic warfare device.'' as this article 'claims'.
I didn't find the confirmation yet, but I did find on the veterans board, that 27 crewmembers of the cook, refuse to board a ship with aegis or simply went AWOL completely.
So something DID happen!
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/13/aegis-fail-in-black-sea-ruskies-burn-down-uss-donald-duck/
Mark.
Mark where is there any evidence in this article that something happened on the USS Donald Cook that was caused by the latest Russian electronic warfare complex? The article shows no links to any media. It used a photo of an unidentified jet fighter with the photo attributed to RIA Novosti, a Russian government media outlet.
The article talks about other people investigating "Jim Hanke along with Mike Harris, has been investigating" yet links to no evidence provided by these investigators.
Near the end of the article it says "After the incident, the foreign media reported", where is the link to the reports of the foreign media? If the reporter of this article is even marginally competent he knows that there should be at least one link to confirm this point. Later in the same sentence it says "that “Donald Cook” was rushed into a port in Romania. There all the 27 members of the crew filed a letter of resignation." All 27 members of the crew filed a letter of resignation? According to this Wikipedia article there are 33 Officers, 38 Chief Petty Officers and 210 Enlisted Personnel for a total of 281 crew on the USS Donald Cook. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Donald_Cook) I'm sure the crew totals vary over time but I don't see how there could only have been 27 crew members on this particular voyage of the USS Donald Cook.
Mark, once again you have posted an article that has zero evidence for its assertion.
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Westy - 27 relates to the number of crew members who 'asked to leave' following the alleged incident
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On the sea , all Russia has to do is fly 1 jet over a boat with Aegis and its dead in the water. Just close with a sub and its like a duck-shoot.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html
Markje
I'd be grateful if you can find where the US State dept. ''acknowledged that the crew of the destroyer USS Donald Cook has been gravely demoralized ever since their vessel was flown over in the Black Sea by a Russian Sukhoi-24 (Su-24) fighter jet which carried neither bombs nor missiles but only an electronic warfare device.'' as this article 'claims'.
I didn't find the confirmation yet, but I did find on the veterans board, that 27 crewmembers of the cook, refuse to board a ship with aegis or simply went AWOL completely.
So something DID happen!
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/13/aegis-fail-in-black-sea-ruskies-burn-down-uss-donald-duck/
Mark.
Mark where is there any evidence in this article that something happened on the USS Donald Cook that was caused by the latest Russian electronic warfare complex? The article shows no links to any media. It used a photo of an unidentified jet fighter with the photo attributed to RIA Novosti, a Russian government media outlet.
The article talks about other people investigating "Jim Hanke along with Mike Harris, has been investigating" yet links to no evidence provided by these investigators.
Near the end of the article it says "After the incident, the foreign media reported", where is the link to the reports of the foreign media? If the reporter of this article is even marginally competent he knows that there should be at least one link to confirm this point. Later in the same sentence it says "that “Donald Cook” was rushed into a port in Romania. There all the 27 members of the crew filed a letter of resignation." All 27 members of the crew filed a letter of resignation? According to this Wikipedia article there are 33 Officers, 38 Chief Petty Officers and 210 Enlisted Personnel for a total of 281 crew on the USS Donald Cook. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Donald_Cook) I'm sure the crew totals vary over time but I don't see how there could only have been 27 crew members on this particular voyage of the USS Donald Cook.
Mark, once again you have posted an article that has zero evidence for its assertion.
All 27 of the people who had problems resigned afterward. Not the full ship's crew, just the ones that were spooked by the flyby.
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All 27 of the people who had problems resigned afterward. Not the full ship's crew, just the ones that were spooked by the flyby.
Markje
I await any proof of these 'requests to be reassigned' ... You 'evidence' is still only a Kremlin controlled news agency
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What a load of garbage designed for the conspiracy theory loving tin foil hat crowd.
The USS Donald Cook was in the Black Sea as part of Atlantic Resolve. The Destroyers homeport is Rota and it was op ord'd/seconded to Op Atlantic Resolve as a show of support and for some other missions. That occured as she waits for the other Aegis vessels which will combine force to become part of the European Phased Adaptive Approach (EPAA) BMD initiative. The vessels will be to permanently deployed to Rota to join her as part of that mission.
Here's some basic starting points and reading for those who think their superiority at the game 'Battleship' lends them to be something more than mere internet enabled chairborne warriors.
http://news.usni.org/2014/12/29/u-s-destroyer-donald-cook-returns-black-sea
http://aviationweek.com/blog/navweek-jammed
http://news.usni.org/2015/05/01/bmd-equipped-destroyer-uss-porter-arrives-in-rota-spain
Nothing to see here folks....move along
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Markje
I await any proof of these 'requests to be reassigned' ... You 'evidence' is still only a Kremlin controlled news agency
And how do you suppose that official military documents of personell assignments make it out on the internet ? :chuckle:
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Westy - 27 relates to the number of crew members who 'asked to leave' following the alleged incident
Mark, that's not what the article says. The article says:
There all the 27 members of the crew filed a letter of resignation.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/13/aegis-fail-in-black-sea-ruskies-burn-down-uss-donald-duck/
In English, this is saying that the entire crew of the USS Donald Cook was 27 and they filed letters of resignation. The writer of the article may have meant to say something else but as it is he said the crew size was 27 and all signed letters of resignation.
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News Flash... Only fully commissioned officers are able "resign" under very specific circumstances as in they fulfilled their mandatory service commitments after a government provided education.
Enlisted men/women including non-commissioned officers sign enlistment and reenlistment contracts and can not resign EVER. They must fulfill the term of their enlistment contracts and then either reenlist or muster out with preferably an Honorable Discharge.
I signed an enlistment contract, and an extension to 6 yrs in order to receive advanced training in order to serve on Nuclear Submarines in advanced combat electronics. Then after 6 years of faithful and honorable service my enlistment contract was up and I received an Honorable Discharge with an RER1 reenlistment code which I opted not to exercise since I preferred female companionship on a nightly basis versus hot bunking on a nuke boat 6 to 12 months at a time.
So the Crew can not "resign" cannot go AWOL (UA in the Navy) UA meaning Unauthorized Absence and to do so would be marked as cowards for the rest of their careers among their peers.
The fantasist propagandist reporter clearly made up this article (which I read in entirety) out of thin Air!
If the crew were truly threatened they would have manned the rails with Stingers (S.O.P. heat seekers shoulder fired that cannot be jammed)) and shot this RU-SU Crazy Ivan out of the air which they did not do showing great restraint or there was NO threat imminent.
However buzzing any combat surface ship multiple times that is armed with some of the world's most advanced anti aircraft systems is extremely ill advised...
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Consider some of the reporting in the Russian press soon after the incident, which said the Cook’s crew was “demoralized” and 27 U.S. sailors “resigned” because they were “terrified.”
First of all, the U.S. Navy is not WalMart – sailors simply cannot quit because they have to go to work in an unsafe neighborhood.
And anyone who has ever spent ANY time with U.S. sailors at sea on a destroyer – or any other ship for that matter – cannot imagine those men and women being “demoralized” by anything of this sort. Ticked off? You bet. Resolved to never let it happen again? Indeed. And that’s IF the scenario played out as it was reported.
To be honest, the only folks who REALLY know what happened are those who were aboard the Cook or in the Russian aircraft. Perhaps the Cook’s crew was simply playing possum, to collect their own intel at the time.
For, as Nasenkov explains, it’s always a cat-and-mouse game on the open seas in these electronic warfare battles, with both sides taking turns playing the different roles.
For those who believe this cockamaime story I would like to hear your response to the following question. This is one that sticks out at least to me.
Why would Russia demonstrate to the US on a single destroyer they have an EW system capable of completely jamming the sensors on a USN destroyer?
There's a difference between sending a message and demonstrating a strategically critical change in ELINT/SIGINT capability. The former doesn't (by a long shot) make the latter worthwhile.
Additionally the USS Donald Cook went back and just left the black sea about early Feb, before that USS Ross was there in Sept, and USS Cole was there in October. So if it did happen, they don't seem to be shying away from sending "helpless ships" into harms way. Additionally why choose just the Cook to practice on...Are you really presuming there was merely one operational test of the platform and that is all takes to 'prove' it's combat effectiveness?
Chew on that Captain Crunch
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And how do you suppose that official military documents of personell assignments make it out on the internet ? :chuckle:
source to discuss, please tiphat
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I'm throwing out this question. Does anyone think there is any country willing to cross Russia's borders, and actually start a war with Russia?
Putin wants to spend billions on his military, but a huge part of Russia could use some updates on infrastructure.
The Russian people sure do give up a lot to support Putin.
NEWS
Putin vows to further strengthen Russian military
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2015/06/25/putin-vows-to-further-strengthen-russian-military/29267547/
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I'm throwing out this question. Does anyone think there is any country willing to cross Russia's borders, and actually start a war with Russia?
I believe America would like to, but first - as with elsewhere - they must fabricate something to justify it to the world. Deposing Putin and breaking up Russia is the Neocon wet dream. This way they could get NATO missiles to the border of China as they are now doing with Russia.
The Biden family running Gazprom? More of Kerrys relatives installed in Moscow as they now are in Kiev? All that oil and gas? Its is the Klondike for the Neocon.
Soon we may hear once again a phrase like 'weapons of mass destruction' being bandied about. That will be the point to worry.
Putin isn't stupid. He knows this. Hence the military spending and de-dollarisation in progress. And why China is suddenly such a close ally of Russia. The decline of American hegemony via economics needs to be managed carefully to avoid a large war. Thankfully, a bankrupt America doesn't have the capability to do so, or we would have seen it already.
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I'm throwing out this question. Does anyone think there is any country willing to cross Russia's borders, and actually start a war with Russia?
I believe America would like to, but first - as with elsewhere - they must fabricate something to justify it to the world. Deposing Putin and breaking up Russia is the Neocon wet dream. This way they could get NATO missiles to the border of China as they are now doing with Russia.
The Biden family running Gazprom? More of Kerrys relatives installed in Moscow as they now are in Kiev? All that oil and gas? Its is the Klondike for the Neocon.
Soon we may hear once again a phrase like 'weapons of mass destruction' being bandied about. That will be the point to worry.
Putin isn't stupid. He knows this. Hence the military spending and de-dollarisation in progress. And why China is suddenly such a close ally of Russia. The decline of American hegemony via economics needs to be managed carefully to avoid a large war. Thankfully, a bankrupt America doesn't have the capability to do so, or we would have seen it already.
With a few thousand nukes to back them up, Russia has little to worry about.
Had Ukraine not given up their arsenal, more than likely we would not have a conflict in Ukraine
But Russia does have a stock pile of weapons of mass destruction, so this time it would be legit, if the folks in Washington were to echo those notorious words.
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But Russia does have a stock pile of weapons of mass destruction, so this time it would be legit, if the folks in Washington were to echo those notorious words.
So does America, and America has been way more irresponsible in the world than has Russia. Lets not forget that Russia is not invading and killing innocents, deposing leaders and effecting regime changes across the world like a row of dominoes falling. America is.
Sooner or later, the world - or some of it that isn't NATO - will have to group together to stop America's continual world terrorism. The peaceful way to do this is to de-dollarise - which is full steam ahead already. Send the dollars back to America as is happening now, you explode the economy, and remove the power. Its a better option than bombs.
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But Russia does have a stock pile of weapons of mass destruction, so this time it would be legit, if the folks in Washington were to echo those notorious words.
So does America, and America has been way more irresponsible in the world than has Russia. Lets not forget that Russia is not invading and killing innocents, deposing leaders and effecting regime changes across the world like a row of dominoes falling. America is.
Sooner or later, the world - or some of it that isn't NATO - will have to group together to stop America's continual world terrorism. The peaceful way to do this is to de-dollarise - which is full steam ahead already. Send the dollars back to America as is happening now, you explode the economy, and remove the power. Its a better option than bombs.
I wonder how different this scenario would play out, if Russia had remained a super power?
With Putin in control, I think Russia would be even worse war monger than the U.S..
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But Russia does have a stock pile of weapons of mass destruction, so this time it would be legit, if the folks in Washington were to echo those notorious words.
So does America, and America has been way more irresponsible in the world than has Russia. Lets not forget that Russia is not invading and killing innocents, deposing leaders and effecting regime changes across the world like a row of dominoes falling. America is.
Sooner or later, the world - or some of it that isn't NATO - will have to group together to stop America's continual world terrorism. The peaceful way to do this is to de-dollarise - which is full steam ahead already. Send the dollars back to America as is happening now, you explode the economy, and remove the power. Its a better option than bombs.
I wonder how different this scenario would play out, if Russia had remained a super power?
With Putin in control, I think Russia would be even worse war monger than the U.S..
I don't think so. Russia has never really exhibited any expansionist plans has it? They are quite happy to be left alone to develop the Rodina. Poke them with a stick and they will respond of course. Leave them alone and they will leave you alone.
Russia in its current form is quite a new entity. It has made great strides under Putin towards becoming a pretty regular place to be. Standards of living have greatly increased. Russia has no desire to seek out war. It is not an aggressive nation by nature.
However, start planting missiles at its border, undermine its interests, infiltrate and subordinate its neighbours, ignore its opinion and give it no say in the near abroad, and what else can it do than seek to protect itself, react to provocation and prepare for hostility it didn't ask for?
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But Russia does have a stock pile of weapons of mass destruction, so this time it would be legit, if the folks in Washington were to echo those notorious words.
So does America, and America has been way more irresponsible in the world than has Russia. Lets not forget that Russia is not invading and killing innocents, deposing leaders and effecting regime changes across the world like a row of dominoes falling. America is.
Sooner or later, the world - or some of it that isn't NATO - will have to group together to stop America's continual world terrorism. The peaceful way to do this is to de-dollarise - which is full steam ahead already. Send the dollars back to America as is happening now, you explode the economy, and remove the power. Its a better option than bombs.
Just insert the word Russia for the words America and NATO and your post will have some truth to it.
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But Russia does have a stock pile of weapons of mass destruction, so this time it would be legit, if the folks in Washington were to echo those notorious words.
So does America, and America has been way more irresponsible in the world than has Russia. Lets not forget that Russia is not invading and killing innocents, deposing leaders and effecting regime changes across the world like a row of dominoes falling. America is.
Sooner or later, the world - or some of it that isn't NATO - will have to group together to stop America's continual world terrorism. The peaceful way to do this is to de-dollarise - which is full steam ahead already. Send the dollars back to America as is happening now, you explode the economy, and remove the power. Its a better option than bombs.
Just insert the word Russia for the words America and NATO and your post will have some truth to it.
Fine. List for the good people the 50 countries Russia has bombed since WW2 as America has. Tough call? Try ten instead.............
Don't be an idiot. See your country for the bankrupt, hostile, warmongering, terrorist state it is. How can you possibly justify thousands of dead children and civilians - year after year - at the hands of your bombs and groups you armed?
Every single day your government is bombing innocent people - women and children included - abroad. Are you proud of that? Does it give you a warm and fuzzy feeling on 'Veterans Day'? :sick0012:
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But Russia does have a stock pile of weapons of mass destruction, so this time it would be legit, if the folks in Washington were to echo those notorious words.
So does America, and America has been way more irresponsible in the world than has Russia. Lets not forget that Russia is not invading and killing innocents, deposing leaders and effecting regime changes across the world like a row of dominoes falling. America is.
Sooner or later, the world - or some of it that isn't NATO - will have to group together to stop America's continual world terrorism. The peaceful way to do this is to de-dollarise - which is full steam ahead already. Send the dollars back to America as is happening now, you explode the economy, and remove the power. Its a better option than bombs.
I wonder how different this scenario would play out, if Russia had remained a super power?
With Putin in control, I think Russia would be even worse war monger than the U.S..
I don't think so. Russia has never really exhibited any expansionist plans has it? They are quite happy to be left alone to develop the Rodina. Poke them with a stick and they will respond of course. Leave them alone and they will leave you alone.
Russia in its current form is quite a new entity. It has made great strides under Putin towards becoming a pretty regular place to be. Standards of living have greatly increased. Russia has no desire to seek out war. It is not an aggressive nation by nature.
However, start planting missiles at its border, undermine its interests, infiltrate and subordinate its neighbours, ignore its opinion and give it no say in the near abroad, and what else can it do than seek to protect itself, react to provocation and prepare for hostility it didn't ask for?
For the last 20+ years, Russia has not been in a financial situation that allowed them to be more militarily active. The moment they were able to become more aggressive they did.
Georgia and the Crimea were only a couple years apart
As Russia becomes financially able to take their place in reclaiming the other countries they feel should be under their control, you'll see more countries in the same boat as Ukraine.
One needs to keep in mind, the west showed Russia that they are not willing to use military force to stop Russia. The west gave Putin the greenlight to continue his land bridge,as well as taking a few other countries of his choosing.
As long as Russia can financially with stand western isolation, they can reclaim the FSU.
Russia can look to Asia for trade, and the west will have nothing to deter Putin.
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But Russia does have a stock pile of weapons of mass destruction, so this time it would be legit, if the folks in Washington were to echo those notorious words.
So does America, and America has been way more irresponsible in the world than has Russia. Lets not forget that Russia is not invading and killing innocents, deposing leaders and effecting regime changes across the world like a row of dominoes falling. America is.
Sooner or later, the world - or some of it that isn't NATO - will have to group together to stop America's continual world terrorism. The peaceful way to do this is to de-dollarise - which is full steam ahead already. Send the dollars back to America as is happening now, you explode the economy, and remove the power. Its a better option than bombs.
Just insert the word Russia for the words America and NATO and your post will have some truth to it.
Does it give you a warm and fuzzy feeling on 'Veterans Day'?
What is going to give me a warm and fuzzy feeling on Veterans Day is a few years from now when the USA kicks some Russian ass on Ukrainian territory and kicks it all the way back to Russia where it belongs. :laugh:
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What is going to give me a warm and fuzzy feeling on Veterans Day is a few years from now when the USA kicks some Russian ass on Ukrainian territory and kicks it all the way back to Russia where it belongs. :laugh:
The USA political establishment has no problem in fighting foreign wars. USA voters don't much care what happens "over there" When the missiles land on the lower 49 see what happens...
That is why the USA is unable to take on China or Russia.
On Ukraine - Europe will never allow USA to wage a proxy in Europe. Way to dangerous as the conflict would escalate.
There are real limits on the USA when it comes to using military power. Putin is well aware of them.
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What is going to give me a warm and fuzzy feeling on Veterans Day is a few years from now when the USA kicks some Russian ass on Ukrainian territory and kicks it all the way back to Russia where it belongs. :laugh:
The USA political establishment has no problem in fighting foreign wars. USA voters don't much care what happens "over there" When the missiles land on the lower 49 see what happens...
That is why the USA is unable to take on China or Russia.
On Ukraine - Europe will never allow USA to wage a proxy in Europe. Way to dangerous as the conflict would escalate.
There are real limits on the USA when it comes to using military power. Putin is well aware of them.
Maybe. Or maybe Putin has taken advantage of the historic weakness of the Obama administration. Not a good move for his economy nor for the long term security of Russia. It's Putin's Russia which has been the clear aggressor in this mess and it's his actions which have brought about a Ukraine united against Russia. The USA has almost zero to do with this yet the propaganda agents of Russia keep pushing the "America bad" narrative.
There will not be peace in Ukraine until Putin pulls his troops and heavy weaponry out of E. Ukraine but you've stated that he will not do that and I agree. Personally I actually hope the USA stays far away, I was just yanking Manny's chain because he always goes into his rant against America and it's rather tiresome by now.
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The USA has almost zero to do with this
[attachimg=1]
You know who the harridan in the blue coat is, right?
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The USA has almost zero to do with this
(Attachment Link)
You know who the harridan in the blue coat is, right?
Yes, she is honoring a historic Ukrainian custom, and passing out bread. Now just imagine if Moscow had been that clever, how differently things might have gone for them! :chuckle:
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The USA has almost zero to do with this
(Attachment Link)
You know who the harridan in the blue coat is, right?
Yes, she is honoring a historic Ukrainian custom, and passing out bread. Now just imagine if Moscow had been that clever, how differently things might have gone for them! :chuckle:
They did, they sent loads of aid-trucks, but they were still accused of sending weapons and/or empty trucks :innocent:
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The USA has almost zero to do with this
(Attachment Link)
You know who the harridan in the blue coat is, right?
Yes, she is honoring a historic Ukrainian custom, and passing out bread. Now just imagine if Moscow had been that clever, how differently things might have gone for them! :chuckle:
They did, they sent loads of aid-trucks, but they were still accused of sending weapons and/or empty trucks :innocent:
Do you honestly believe the crazy propaganda that you write? They were accused of sending weapons because that is precisely what they did.
Just refer to Putin's denials of sending Russian troops and weaponry to Crimea before the annexation, and then his acknowledgement of doing precisely that after the annexation.
Any questions? :'(
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Do you honestly believe the crazy propaganda that you write? They were accused of sending weapons because that is precisely what they did.
Strange how none of that could be proven. The trucks opened contained just what they claimed it contained. Aid for the needy although they werent loaded fully.
Just refer to Putin's denials of sending Russian troops and weaponry to Crimea before the annexation, and then his acknowledgement of doing precisely that after the annexation.
Any questions? :'(
Putin didn't need to send weapons to Crimea, he just used the ones in Sevastopol army base. Seeing as to how peaceful the transition went, it was just precautionary.
If mexico suddenly declared to want arizona new mexico and texas, don't you think the americans themselves would also fight back and not let the army do all the work alone?
You're so anti-russian you can't see the truth when it bites you. Crimea wanted this, honestly did. Thats why there wasn't a shot fired by the russians. The 1 dead ukrainian army officer, someone hoped to be a flash-point. But guess who had a cool head and no war was started.
Mark.
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Do you honestly believe the crazy propaganda that you write? They were accused of sending weapons because that is precisely what they did.
Strange how none of that could be proven. The trucks opened contained just what they claimed it contained. Aid for the needy although they werent loaded fully.
Just refer to Putin's denials of sending Russian troops and weaponry to Crimea before the annexation, and then his acknowledgement of doing precisely that after the annexation.
Any questions? :'(
Putin didn't need to send weapons to Crimea, he just used the ones in Sevastopol army base. Seeing as to how peaceful the transition went, it was just precautionary.
If mexico suddenly declared to want arizona new mexico and texas, don't you think the americans themselves would also fight back and not let the army do all the work alone?
You're so anti-russian you can't see the truth when it bites you. Crimea wanted this, honestly did. Thats why there wasn't a shot fired by the russians. The 1 dead ukrainian army officer, someone hoped to be a flash-point. But guess who had a cool head and no war was started.
You have your opinions and I have mine. My opinions are in-line with how history judges what is right and wrong.
In my opinion it is you who is anti-Russian, because you support the actions of a despotic tyrant who has total country of his media and feeds his own people a bunch of lies. Goebel is one of Putin's heroes. Did you know that?
Let's see how history judges Putin in 20 or 30 years when he is long gone.
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Do you honestly believe the crazy propaganda that you write? They were accused of sending weapons because that is precisely what they did.
Strange how none of that could be proven. The trucks opened contained just what they claimed it contained. Aid for the needy although they werent loaded fully.
Just refer to Putin's denials of sending Russian troops and weaponry to Crimea before the annexation, and then his acknowledgement of doing precisely that after the annexation.
Any questions? :'(
Putin didn't need to send weapons to Crimea, he just used the ones in Sevastopol army base. Seeing as to how peaceful the transition went, it was just precautionary.
If mexico suddenly declared to want arizona new mexico and texas, don't you think the americans themselves would also fight back and not let the army do all the work alone?
You're so anti-russian you can't see the truth when it bites you. Crimea wanted this, honestly did. Thats why there wasn't a shot fired by the russians. The 1 dead ukrainian army officer, someone hoped to be a flash-point. But guess who had a cool head and no war was started.
You have your opinions and I have mine. My opinions are in-line with how history judges what is right and wrong.
In my opinion it is you who is anti-Russian, because you support the actions of a despotic tyrant who has total country of his media and feeds his own people a bunch of lies. Goebel is one of Putin's heroes. Did you know that?
Let's see how history judges Putin in 20 or 30 years when he is long gone.
Well, lets agree to disagree then.. You're only talking about Putin which I never mentioned in any of the above. He's absolutely no factor other than enabling what happened to Crimea was more peaceful than what had happened had he not aided the good citizens. I have eyes inside Crimea every evening for 2 hours, I know a lot more about this than what you can read in the news. Let history judge, thats a good one, and if it judges in Favor of what happened to Crimea, will you then agree with me?
Mark.
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You are dreaming because history will never judge the theft of Crimea from Ukraine in a favorable way, it will always be judged in the same way as the annexation by Hitler of the Sudentenland. However I will say there would have been peace if Putin had stopped there, but he's not as clever as some think he is.
What history will say if other countries use what Russia did as an example was that it was Russia who upset the balance in the World and opened the Pandora's box of taking territory from neighbors.
No doubt eventually it is going to happen to Russia's detriment, especially because they are so poor at maximizing their natural resources and must find others to do it.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/700a9450-1b26-11e5-8201-cbdb03d71480.html#axzz3e9nwh73r
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So much for the importance of faulty approval ratings...
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Manny, if we are to believe that Putin said the break up of the Soviet Union was a bad thing...remembering it occupied Poland and many other nations for nearly 50 years.. and it has expanded into Georgia and now Ukraine 'reclaiming territory'..
Where does that leave your 'non-expanionist' theory ?!
sent from mobile..pls excuse the spooling mistooks
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Manny, if we are to believe that Putin said the break up of the Soviet Union was a bad thing...remembering it occupied Poland and many other nations for nearly 50 years
You are being dishonest again. Go read what he actually said in context.
.. and it has expanded into Georgia and now Ukraine 'reclaiming territory'..
Both very specific things. These are not random expansions. Both necessary and reactive responses to a specific situation.
Where does that leave your 'non-expanionist' theory ?!
Exactly where I said.
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'Dishonest' is a word you and andrewfi throw around whilst either being totally inept about the political realities of the world or pushing your bizarre ' Putin is a hero' agenda...
Under the current format has the RF expanded or contracted?
Has it prevented people leaving an entity they never agreed to be part of whilst encouraging others by using its troops ...whether stationed as paying guests or as 'peace-keepers' to aid regime change?...
YES...
Where you are is a place you need to wake up and smell the coffee !
sent from mobile..pls excuse the spooling mistooks
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Well,
Looks like the first-post was right!!!!
The western army is about to loose air-superiority ... :ROFL:
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/15/06/30/1732254/test-pilot-the-f-35-cant-dogfight
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moby, strangely enough the word 'honesty' or its antonym are words used very often in the context of the stuff you say/write.
I wonder why.
For sure, above, if you had read the words uttered by Putin then you'd not have been able to honestly post as you did. SO, that makes you either, significantly less knowledgeable than you claim or dishonest. Given that the point has previously been made on this very forum that you read and post on incessantly, it is hard to give you credit for lack of knowledge leaving us with, once again, dishonesty.
Why do you do it?
Are you trying to show off to somebody? :happygirl1:
Do you live in some fantasy world where you are the brightest person in the room?
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moby, strangely enough the word 'honesty' or its antonym are words used very often in the context of the stuff you say/write.
For sure, above, if you had read the words uttered by Putin then you'd not have been able to honestly post as you did. SO, that makes you either, significantly less knowledgeable than you claim or dishonest. Given that the point has previously been made on this very forum that you read and post on incessantly, it is hard to give you credit for lack of knowledge leaving us with, once again, dishonesty.
Yours and Manny's 'protestations' as to my 'misinterpreting' what Putin said regarding the USSR...bearing in mind that at least one of you cannot converse in Russian, made me laugh...
Why do you do it?
Are you trying to show off to somebody? :happygirl1:
Do you live in some fantasy world where you are the brightest person in the room?
:chuckle:
Unlike you, I never try to 'judge' folk until I meet them.
Just to burst your bubble - I don't have a Masters, Doctorate, PhD or a 'first' at degree level ...I was too lazy and having a good time...
I don't feel the need to 'show off'
I wonder if you have read anything about Putin's past - and what drives him, now....it's seems not - judging by your ignorance.
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It appears that Putin's #1 in the entire world Military Strength has in fact gone to his crotch head and he has dicktated a review of the Baltics independence:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-reviewing-legality-baltic-states-200136322.html
Hope you lot in the Balties have your bug out stash bags packed and able to sell your Tallinn properties before the bottom falls out of the real estate markets there...
There were many here who stearnly opined that he would never invade a sister slavic country that largely shares their identical faith - well - blood is thicker than water and money is thicker than blood.
LOL Latvia, Liths and Esties have 3 tanks and 16 planes between them whereas Mother Rossiya has 15,500 Tanks and 3,082 planes many advanced migs with stealth capabilities - this will be like a Russia voracious forest wolf devouring yapping yeuro purse puppies - can you say "Yelp!"
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Of course you missed the words that invalidated the proposition of your post - don't worry, you often do so.
The review is an administrative process and it has already been made clear, even as the review starts, that there will be no legal consequences arising from the outcome of the review.
Do people like you do as you do from ignorance and an inability to understand what you read or to try to elicit some kind of response?
The source stated that the investigation was launched following requests from two parliamentary deputies, adding that there would be no legal consequences if the recognition of the three Baltic states was to be found illegal.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-reviewing-legality-baltic-states-200136322.html
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Of course you missed the words that invalidated the proposition of your post - don't worry, you often do so.
The review is an administrative process and it has already been made clear, even as the review starts, that there will be no legal consequences arising from the outcome of the review.
Do people like you do as you do from ignorance and an inability to understand what you read or to try to elicit some kind of response?
The source stated that the investigation was launched following requests from two parliamentary deputies, adding that there would be no legal consequences if the recognition of the three Baltic states was to be found illegal.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-reviewing-legality-baltic-states-200136322.html
Many of them only skim headlines. Why so much stuff is made up.
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Of course you missed the words that invalidated the proposition of your post - don't worry, you often do so.
The review is an administrative process and it has already been made clear, even as the review starts, that there will be no legal consequences arising from the outcome of the review.
Do people like you do as you do from ignorance and an inability to understand what you read or to try to elicit some kind of response?
The source stated that the investigation was launched following requests from two parliamentary deputies, adding that there would be no legal consequences if the recognition of the three Baltic states was to be found illegal.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-reviewing-legality-baltic-states-200136322.html
Many of them only skim headlines. Why so much stuff is made up.
Typical British Arrogance and Hubris from the same folks who never thought Russia and Crimea would be at war with such violence it has killed more combatants in 2 years than the allies losses over 13 years fighting Al Qaeda and ISIS... Of course you lot having tremendous military expertise are are experts in classic military strategy (Deception being the highest form of Generalship by preserving your armies intact and treasury reserves for when you might really need to defend yourselves)... Oh but that's right Uncle Sam actually keeps his promises and has defended you lot against your own passive Chamberlainesque naivete for more than a century now. Go figure so you can afford to be unilateral disarmists when you have such a powerful uncle on speed dial.
The part that astounds me is the Balties (yapping yorkie purse puppies picture here) only have 3 tanks and 16 planes and are sitting ducks on the Russian border to be devoured at a moments notice - did they really think that NATO and the rest of the Eurowhiners would come to their defense and risk Nuclear War with the last Neomasculine leader in all of the White Caucasian world? Ask the Krymians how that has worked out for them.
LOL Latvia, Liths and Esties have 3 tanks and 16 planes between them whereas Mother Rossiya has 15,500 Tanks and 3,082 planes many advanced migs with stealth capabilities - this will be like a Russia voracious forest wolf devouring yapping yeuro purse puppies - can you say "Yelp!"
Downt vorry dahlinks tell me pleece vhat pahrt of "there would be no legal consequences" did dyou noht unterstant?
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Cufflinks,
You're wrong to think that the USA and NATO would not come to the aid of the Baltics should Putin be so foolish as to invade those countries. Obama as weak as he is, has made it clear that the USA would indeed defend those countries, and the fact that we've moved more material into that area confirms his intentions.
http://news.yahoo.com/u-s--sends-600-troops-to-poland--baltics-in-message-to-russia-over-ukraine-175716068.html
and
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/world/europe/us-poised-to-put-heavy-weaponry-in-east-europe.html?_r=0
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Cufflinks,
You're wrong to think that the USA and NATO would not come to the aid of the Baltics should Putin be so foolish as to invade those countries. Obama as weak as he is, has made it clear that the USA would indeed defend those countries, and the fact that we've moved more material into that area confirms his intentions.
http://news.yahoo.com/u-s--sends-600-troops-to-poland--baltics-in-message-to-russia-over-ukraine-175716068.html
and
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/world/europe/us-poised-to-put-heavy-weaponry-in-east-europe.html?_r=0
600 Troops LOL The New Hampshire National Guard sent 10 times more men than that to fight al qaeda and now ISIS/ISIL - 600 is a very small token force designed more to keep the Poles from doing something rash and calm then down and not so big as to be a real threat to Chairman Putin - yes Uncle Obama is here to protect you er ah um USA Corporate interests and market share in Poland and the EU - about enough troops to destroy the top secret Strategic Missile Defense installations should Russia decide to invade - not even a credible speed bump - more like a bit more sand on the beach or worse a skid mark on the Warsaw to Berlin highway.
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Officials: US jets scramble to intercept Russian bombers off California, Alaska coasts on July 4
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/06/officials-us-jets-scramble-to-intercept-russian-bombers-off-california-alaska/
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Cufflinks,
You're wrong to think that the USA and NATO would not come to the aid of the Baltics should Putin be so foolish as to invade those countries. Obama as weak as he is, has made it clear that the USA would indeed defend those countries, and the fact that we've moved more material into that area confirms his intentions.
http://news.yahoo.com/u-s--sends-600-troops-to-poland--baltics-in-message-to-russia-over-ukraine-175716068.html
and
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/world/europe/us-poised-to-put-heavy-weaponry-in-east-europe.html?_r=0
600 Troops LOL The New Hampshire National Guard sent 10 times more men than that to fight al qaeda and now ISIS/ISIL - 600 is a very small token force designed more to keep the Poles from doing something rash and calm then down and not so big as to be a real threat to Chairman Putin - yes Uncle Obama is here to protect you er ah um USA Corporate interests and market share in Poland and the EU - about enough troops to destroy the top secret Strategic Missile Defense installations should Russia decide to invade - not even a credible speed bump - more like a bit more sand on the beach or worse a skid mark on the Warsaw to Berlin highway.
The military exercise that took place, should not be taken at face value. Yes, 5000 or so troops, covering 5 or 6 countries, I lost count, have not been dispatched to scare Putin. This is the CNN version of facts. It was not the intention of Washington to send troops to Poland and the Baltics, to protect them. If anyone saw it this way, then I must admit that he could not see the big, the real picture.
The real reason these troops were dispatched, and made a nice show along the way, was to warn these countries, not to fiddle with the west.
Yes, it was a way for the US, to say you guys will not interact with Russia, you are ours.
You can look at any country that has US troops stationed on their territory, and wonder if they have any freedom. real freedom. Japan, Korea, the Philippines, Germany, the UK, Romania, Kosovo, and many others, are just vassals to the US. France, and Canada, we kicked them out a long time ago. We have decided to act ourselves in our defense.
Now, the Baltics, and Poland, have become servile vassals. That was the aim of the game.
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Yes, it was a way for the US, to say you guys will not interact with Russia, you are ours.
You can look at any country that has US troops stationed on their territory, and wonder if they have any freedom. real freedom. Japan, Korea, the Philippines, Germany, the UK, Romania, Kosovo, and many others, are just vassals to the US. France, and Canada, we kicked them out a long time ago. We have decided to act ourselves in our defense.
Now, the Baltics, and Poland, have become servile vassals. That was the aim of the game.
What an 'interesting' perspective.... I will personally file it in the round file. :chuckle:
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Another show of Russia's superior military strength. :chuckle:
BY WEIRD RUSSIAN EVENTS, MILITARY,VIDEOSJULY 27, 2015
FAILED MISSILE LAUNCH SPOILED RUSSIAN NAVY DAY CELEBRATIONS
http://weirdrussia.com/2015/07/27/failed-missile-launch-spoiled-russian-navy-day-celebrations/
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Another show of Russia's superior military strength. :chuckle:
BY WEIRD RUSSIAN EVENTS, MILITARY,VIDEOSJULY 27, 2015
FAILED MISSILE LAUNCH SPOILED RUSSIAN NAVY DAY CELEBRATIONS
http://weirdrussia.com/2015/07/27/failed-missile-launch-spoiled-russian-navy-day-celebrations/
The US Navy had a failed missile launch in July also.
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-a-failed-missile-launch-from-a-us-navy-ship-looks-like-2015-7 (http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-a-failed-missile-launch-from-a-us-navy-ship-looks-like-2015-7)
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Another show of Russia's superior military strength. :chuckle:
BY WEIRD RUSSIAN EVENTS, MILITARY,VIDEOSJULY 27, 2015
FAILED MISSILE LAUNCH SPOILED RUSSIAN NAVY DAY CELEBRATIONS
http://weirdrussia.com/2015/07/27/failed-missile-launch-spoiled-russian-navy-day-celebrations/
The US Navy had a failed missile launch in July also.
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-a-failed-missile-launch-from-a-us-navy-ship-looks-like-2015-7 (http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-a-failed-missile-launch-from-a-us-navy-ship-looks-like-2015-7)
Maybe Russia and the United states get their missile parts from China? :chuckle:
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In dutch news today: NL army has run out of bullets. Several training missions are cancelled :sick0012:
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In dutch news today: NL army has run out of bullets. Several training missions are cancelled :sick0012:
WTF - Jesus Mary and Joseph - Keyriste sakes - next despot that decides to roll across Europa will have a field day literally - must be because the Euro Greens did not like all that hot lead being fired and leave trace elements pollution in the air.
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- next despot that decides to roll across Europa will have a field day literally -
You already did your victory tour in mainland Europe following years of occupation: http://www.rt.com/news/242953-us-military-parade-europe/
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You already did your victory tour in mainland Europe following years of occupation
'occupation'...
I didn't spot you amongst the Greenham Common protesters, nor refraining from buying US 'muscle cars'.... :chuckle:
When will you be organising 'protests' about the US 'occupying' bases in the UK ? :chuckle:
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nor refraining from buying US 'muscle cars'.... :chuckle:
I seldom buy American products any more. As it goes, not too many of their products are on this side of the pond anyway, so its not a difficult choice to make.
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nor refraining from buying US 'muscle cars'.... :chuckle:
I seldom buy American products any more. As it goes, not too many of their products are on this side of the pond anyway, so its not a difficult choice to make.
Remember the line from 'Moscow on the Hudson' where the Soviet Defector played by Robin Williams phoned his family in Moscow from New York?
"Today I bought my first pair of American shoes. They were made in Italy...."
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nor refraining from buying US 'muscle cars'.... :chuckle:
I seldom buy American products any more. As it goes, not too many of their products are on this side of the pond anyway, so its not a difficult choice to make.
Just 'godaddy' Ford, GM, Pespsi, McDs, Coke, Visa, Mastercard, Levis, Nike and about 100 other brands that you are 'boycotting'))
.
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nor refraining from buying US 'muscle cars'.... :chuckle:
I seldom buy American products any more. As it goes, not too many of their products are on this side of the pond anyway, so its not a difficult choice to make.
I can not wait until I can vote for and elect Donald Trump for US President and he implements MUTUAL BILATERAL TRADE and not allow all of our so called trading "partners" (Imagine Putin's tone and intent when he refers to you lot as european "partners") - who have been DUMPING their products in the USA with no tarriffs and lopsided "free trade" agreements and yet put 100% tariffs with insultingly low quotas on US exports.
I do not have the time right know to research it but i am sure that If we were to list all major world auto manufacturers the numbers of units allowed into the USA versus the insultingly low number of USA auto and truck units allowed into their countries of origin at the original competitive USA prices based upon actual costs would be laughable if it were not so damaging to our manufacturing industries.
Step one limit imports to the USA to the same numbers of units allowed to by imported into our "trading partner" countries. Of course the factories located in their countries and our country would be exempt due to domestic content and labor.
Imagine how many Range Rovers would sell in the USA when mutual tarriff rates are enforced - Range Rovers would start at $200K and con not compete with Toyota Quality... many Toyota models are manufactured in advanced robotic USA plants - go figure...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automotive_assembly_plants_in_the_United_States
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World’s fastest interceptors perform unique nonstop night flight across Russia
http://www.rt.com/news/311450-mig-record-night-flight/
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World’s fastest interceptors perform unique nonstop night flight across Russia
http://www.rt.com/news/311450-mig-record-night-flight/
ANOTHER RT howler
the photo of the refuelling planes are NOT MIG-31's they do not have canards like the SU-34's depicted ... :chuckle:
They are so quick to - rightly - mock CNN / Fox for their howlers - wonder if they will change the photo and pretend it never happened
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k634/Svietik/mig%2031%20is%20su%2034_zpsazfu9xf6.jpg)
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Russia's New Armata Battle Tank Dramatically Cheaper Than Expected
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/russias-new-armata-battle-tank-dramatically-cheaper-expected/ri9887
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Tom Cat, to be fair a large part of the reason for the unexpectedly low cost is the current exchange rate against the dollar; so, in dollar terms, it looks much less expensive than it did a few months ago when the cost was first being bruited about.
That said, even at the price in early 2014 dollar terms the thing would still have been very good value in comparison to anything else even close in terms of specification.
========================================
moby you do know that the picture was a syndicated one and was not claimed to be of the actual planes in the story?
The clue is in the caption. Would a normal sub-editor know the minutiae of the appearance of two fairly similar planes? No, she wouldn't and nobody would reasonably expect her to.
There's a big difference between using an image wrongly captioned at source and making a story up?
As the forum expert in dishonesty you know about these things, yes?
So, why, as an expert on the topic do you, again, choose to try to mislead readers?
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Andrew, Is reading a challenge? The caption clearly indicates the fighters being fueled mid flight are in fact MIG 31's.
Please do not try to deflect the caption on the foto, it makes you look more stupid than you are. We are so there is no doubt not speaking about the veracity of Moby but the caption in an article posted.
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moby you do know that the picture was a syndicated one and was not claimed to be of the actual planes in the story?
The clue is in the caption. Would a normal sub-editor know the minutiae of the appearance of two fairly similar planes? No, she wouldn't and nobody would reasonably expect her to.
There's a big difference between using an image wrongly captioned at source and making a story up?
As the forum expert in dishonesty you know about these things, yes?
So, why, as an expert on the topic do you, again, choose to try to mislead readers?
Andrewfi, AvhdB has managed to neatly cover my response to your latest fail .. Suggest you re-check your dictionary for the definition of dishonest - read it out loud in front of the mirror :chuckle:
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This is an impressive fighter jet.
RT EXCLUSIVE: Close up of GEN 4++ fighter jet SU-30SM in Syria (VIDEO)
https://www.rt.com/news/318721-syria-exclusive-su30sm-jet/
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If only Arnold Schwarzenegger was eligible to become president.
No Joke: Russian Company Now Building 'Skynet'
The groundbreaking AI software can be installed on any robotic systemMakes robots capable of organizing and making decisions on their ownBrings future of independent artificial intellegence closerCompares in concept to Skynet from 'Terminator' franchise
http://russia-insider.com/en/russian-skynet-lead-military-robots-battlefield/ri10733
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If only Arnold Schwarzenegger was eligible to become president.
No Joke: Russian Company Now Building 'Skynet'
The groundbreaking AI software can be installed on any robotic systemMakes robots capable of organizing and making decisions on their ownBrings future of independent artificial intellegence closerCompares in concept to Skynet from 'Terminator' franchise
http://russia-insider.com/en/russian-skynet-lead-military-robots-battlefield/ri10733
Basically you're saying Putin is going to be responsible for the end of humanity via a robotic apocalypse. :laugh:
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If only Arnold Schwarzenegger was eligible to become president.
No Joke: Russian Company Now Building 'Skynet'
The groundbreaking AI software can be installed on any robotic systemMakes robots capable of organizing and making decisions on their ownBrings future of independent artificial intellegence closerCompares in concept to Skynet from 'Terminator' franchise
http://russia-insider.com/en/russian-skynet-lead-military-robots-battlefield/ri10733
Basically you're saying Putin is going to be responsible for the end of humanity via a robotic apocalypse. :laugh:
There is the new headline for the western media.
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As I wrote a few minutes ago:
This seems to be a very cool thing.
Rather than building a set of robots (of whatever kind) these guys have developed a platform that can be incorporated into 'any' robotic tool. This makes developing those robots much easier as the manufacturers can use the 'operating system' provided by OPK in their own manufactures without having to develop their own system for control.
This is something like the development of the operating system, going back to C/PM, MSDOS, Windows and others that made the development of computers much easier, faster and above all cheaper and served to both increase the variety of products available whilst at the same time commoditising them.
I'd guess that this would also enable systems to be somewhat interoperable, that is one might add an element from system A into system B very easily, rather than having to customise everything.
CLICK HERE! (https://disqus.com/home/discussion/russiainsider/russian_skynet_to_lead_military_robots_on_the_battlefield/#comment-2337731116)
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This is one weapon the world could do without.
The oceans get enough contamination already.
Russia reveals giant nuclear torpedo in state TV 'leak'
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34797252
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But is this just a wind up ?
In Sochi, today - there was a meeting of high ranking military officials and Pres. Putin.
Pervy Kanal news showed a general studying a diagram of a "devastating" torpedo system.
Launched by a submarine, it would create "wide areas of radioactive contamination", the document says.
"It's true some secret data got into the shot, therefore it was subsequently deleted," said Mr Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov. "In future we will undoubtedly take preventive measures so this does not happen again."
Could this be a Kremlin maskirovka - a deception - a deliberate leak - in the way the yanks had the soviets in a spin over star Wars ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34797252
Discussion here is Russian :
http://www.rg.ru/2015/11/12/bomb-site.html
One of the effects of the use of such a weapon would be a tsunami up to 500m high, that could reach nearly 1000 miles into the USA - so I guess much of Canada, Cuba and other Caribbean islands / or Mexico would be wiped out too ...
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Russia was just letting the United states know that a missile defense system in Europe would have little effect on Russia's ability to retaliate if needed.
Did Russia Just 'Gently' Threaten the US?
http://russia-insider.com/en/did-russia-just-gently-threaten-us/ri11128
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Russia was just letting the United states know that a missile defense system in Europe would have little effect on Russia's ability to retaliate if needed.
Did Russia Just 'Gently' Threaten the US?
http://russia-insider.com/en/did-russia-just-gently-threaten-us/ri11128
Moby was getting confused ...again.
While he was correct to note that there was an (intentional?) disclosure of a possible new weapon system that (possible?) system is not the same as the system designed to create tsunamis. That's an earlier and almost certainly real system. The new weapon is interesting because it would be based upon currently existing platforms and, if produced, would be both easy and inexpensive to manufacture and rapid to deploy.
It is not though a system to stop current, or proposed, US weapons systems but rather to render them pointless from a strategic perspective in that the Russians would not need to rely upon Russian based ballistic missiles to attain a very effective second strike capability against US coastal regions. By removing the point of having Europe based ABMs the Russians would hope for a continuation, or restoration, of the MAD paradigm which Europe based ABMs disturbs by making possible an effective US first strike capability without an overwhelming Russian retaliation.
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Moby was getting confused ...again.
andrewfi, proviing how well he's knows his 'opponent' :sick0012:
While he was correct to note that there was an (intentional?) disclosure of a possible new weapon system
Ah, so you are [ now ] party to the Kremlin's policy ? :chuckle:
that (possible?) system is not the same as the system designed to create tsunamis. That's an earlier and almost certainly real system. The new weapon is interesting because it would be based upon currently existing platforms and, if produced, would be both easy and inexpensive to manufacture and rapid to deploy.
It is not though a system to stop current, or proposed, US weapons systems but rather to render them pointless from a strategic perspective in that the Russians would not need to rely upon Russian based ballistic missiles to attain a very effective second strike capability against US coastal regions. By removing the point of having Europe based ABMs the Russians would hope for a continuation, or restoration, of the MAD paradigm which Europe based ABMs disturbs by making possible an effective US first strike capability without an overwhelming Russian retaliation.
Andrewfi's recent knowledge of weapons capability has oft be demonstrated to be woeful - examples being the Russian made drone that wasn't a Russian design that crashed in Turkey - that was Russian designed..
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Look Inside Putin's Massive Triple-Deck War Room
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/look-inside-putins-massive-triple-deck-military-command-and-control-center/ri11349
I'm beginning to think that Putin has been spending far more on the Russian military, than what was budgeted.
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Moby, when making a claim that I am wrong you might at least trouble yourself to help your readers understand you by backing up your claims with the demonstration that I was wrong.
I mean, think for a moment, do you REALLY think that 'just by accident' a page that showed very clearly a weapon system just happened by accident to be visible to cameras in a context where what those cameras picked up was under close supervision?
Oh, the drone, go on, show us how you know the design was not as I said it was. Maybe the manufacturers in China got their information wrong and it wasn't a development of a US design, made in China?
Maybe the same design had not shown up in a completely different context in Turkey many months ago?
Right now you just look like you are making stuff up again - which is, of course, the case. ;)
Moby, why do you have to be dishonest all the bloody time? Understand this: you are NOT the smartest man in the room, it is likely that you very rarely ever are, you fool very few people. Your mum might make allowances for her 'darling boy', but we don't have to. Stop being lazy, tell the truth.
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Oh, the drone, go on, show us how you know the design was not as I said it was.
andrewfi, when you crib stuff from comments on Kremlin media - folks telling us it isn't a Russian drone - you left yourself WIDE open.
To remind you.. Turkey promised to reveal the origin of the drone and here's the result.
''A drone shot down by Turkish warplanes in Turkish air space near Syria on Friday was Russian-made, but Moscow has told Ankara the unmanned aircraft did not belong to Russia, Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said on Monday. [ 19th October ]'' - source Reuters
tiphat
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Oh, the drone, go on, show us how you know the design was not as I said it was.
andrewfi, when you crib stuff from comments on Kremlin media - folks telling us it isn't a Russian drone - you left yourself WIDE open.
To remind you.. Turkey promised to reveal the origin of the drone and here's the result.
''A drone shot down by Turkish warplanes in Turkish air space near Syria on Friday was Russian-made, but Moscow has told Ankara the unmanned aircraft did not belong to Russia, Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said on Monday. [ 19th October ]'' - source Reuters
tiphat
If you are going to use unfounded reports from those with an interest in a particular version of reality then at least support it with some evidence.
As you forgot, I shared the bloody advertisement for the aircraft from the Chinese manufacturer. It isn't Russian no matter what you might want to make up or what others imagine.
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Sabre-rattling Russia reveals it is planning 4,000 military exercises in 2016
RUSSIA'S army will carry out a record 4,000 military drills next year as part of a £190billion rearmament project to make it one of the most heavily resourced military powers on the planet.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/626094/Russia-military-drills-Moscow-plans-4000-exercises-2016
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An interesting comparison between the USSR navy and the Russian navy. According to this article Russia has a small fraction of the ships the USSR had. In some categories Russia has no ships at all.
In 1990, just before the fall of the Soviet Union, the Red Fleet was big, made up of over 600 ships spread out over dozens of different classes. But here in 2015, 25 years later, the Russian Navy is a fraction of its forebear's size with under 200 ships.
If the USSR couldn't compete against the US when the USSR had a significantly larger navy how does Russia expect to compete against the US with a significantly smaller navy.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a18668/soviet-navy-vs-modern-day-russia-infographic/
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An interesting comparison between the USSR navy and the Russian navy. According to this article Russia has a small fraction of the ships the USSR had. In some categories Russia has no ships at all.
In 1990, just before the fall of the Soviet Union, the Red Fleet was big, made up of over 600 ships spread out over dozens of different classes. But here in 2015, 25 years later, the Russian Navy is a fraction of its forebear's size with under 200 ships.
If the USSR couldn't compete against the US when the USSR had a significantly larger navy how does Russia expect to compete against the US with a significantly smaller navy.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a18668/soviet-navy-vs-modern-day-russia-infographic/
Westy, if you are worried that Russia does not have the ability to defend itself, they seem to be in good shape and ready if needed.
Russia Is Absolutely Ready to Defend Itself (Video)
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/russia-absolutely-ready-defend-itself-video/ri11981
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An interesting comparison between the USSR navy and the Russian navy. According to this article Russia has a small fraction of the ships the USSR had. In some categories Russia has no ships at all.
In 1990, just before the fall of the Soviet Union, the Red Fleet was big, made up of over 600 ships spread out over dozens of different classes. But here in 2015, 25 years later, the Russian Navy is a fraction of its forebear's size with under 200 ships.
If the USSR couldn't compete against the US when the USSR had a significantly larger navy how does Russia expect to compete against the US with a significantly smaller navy.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a18668/soviet-navy-vs-modern-day-russia-infographic/
Westy, if you are worried that Russia does not have the ability to defend itself, they seem to be in good shape and ready if needed.
Russia Is Absolutely Ready to Defend Itself (Video)
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/russia-absolutely-ready-defend-itself-video/ri11981
How is Putin going to pay for all his new toys with $30/barrel oil?
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An interesting comparison between the USSR navy and the Russian navy. According to this article Russia has a small fraction of the ships the USSR had. In some categories Russia has no ships at all.
In 1990, just before the fall of the Soviet Union, the Red Fleet was big, made up of over 600 ships spread out over dozens of different classes. But here in 2015, 25 years later, the Russian Navy is a fraction of its forebear's size with under 200 ships.
If the USSR couldn't compete against the US when the USSR had a significantly larger navy how does Russia expect to compete against the US with a significantly smaller navy.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a18668/soviet-navy-vs-modern-day-russia-infographic/
Westy, if you are worried that Russia does not have the ability to defend itself, they seem to be in good shape and ready if needed.
Russia Is Absolutely Ready to Defend Itself (Video)
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/russia-absolutely-ready-defend-itself-video/ri11981
How is Putin going to pay for all his new toys with $30/barrel oil?
The Secret Money Behind Vladimir Putin's War Machine
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-02/putin-s-secret-budget-hides-shift-toward-war-economy
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An interesting comparison between the USSR navy and the Russian navy. According to this article Russia has a small fraction of the ships the USSR had. In some categories Russia has no ships at all.
In 1990, just before the fall of the Soviet Union, the Red Fleet was big, made up of over 600 ships spread out over dozens of different classes. But here in 2015, 25 years later, the Russian Navy is a fraction of its forebear's size with under 200 ships.
If the USSR couldn't compete against the US when the USSR had a significantly larger navy how does Russia expect to compete against the US with a significantly smaller navy.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a18668/soviet-navy-vs-modern-day-russia-infographic/
Westy, if you are worried that Russia does not have the ability to defend itself, they seem to be in good shape and ready if needed.
Russia Is Absolutely Ready to Defend Itself (Video)
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/russia-absolutely-ready-defend-itself-video/ri11981
How is Putin going to pay for all his new toys with $30/barrel oil?
The Secret Money Behind Vladimir Putin's War Machine
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-02/putin-s-secret-budget-hides-shift-toward-war-economy
Tom Cat that article is from June 2015, at the time oil was at about $65/barrel, oil is now at about $37/barrel and probably going lower. That's a big problem for a country like Russia that relies on oil and natural gas for so much of its foreign revenue.
IOW, whatever was said about military spending 6 months ago is probably not possible now because the foreign revenue isn't likely to be available.
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An interesting comparison between the USSR navy and the Russian navy. According to this article Russia has a small fraction of the ships the USSR had. In some categories Russia has no ships at all.
In 1990, just before the fall of the Soviet Union, the Red Fleet was big, made up of over 600 ships spread out over dozens of different classes. But here in 2015, 25 years later, the Russian Navy is a fraction of its forebear's size with under 200 ships.
If the USSR couldn't compete against the US when the USSR had a significantly larger navy how does Russia expect to compete against the US with a significantly smaller navy.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a18668/soviet-navy-vs-modern-day-russia-infographic/
Westy, if you are worried that Russia does not have the ability to defend itself, they seem to be in good shape and ready if needed.
Russia Is Absolutely Ready to Defend Itself (Video)
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/russia-absolutely-ready-defend-itself-video/ri11981
How is Putin going to pay for all his new toys with $30/barrel oil?
The Secret Money Behind Vladimir Putin's War Machine
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-02/putin-s-secret-budget-hides-shift-toward-war-economy
Tom Cat that article is from June 2015, at the time oil was at about $65/barrel, oil is now at about $37/barrel and probably going lower. That's a big problem for a country like Russia that relies on oil and natural gas for so much of its foreign revenue.
IOW, whatever was said about military spending 6 months ago is probably not possible now because the foreign revenue isn't likely to be available.
The way Russia is getting military contracts I would think the Russian military is semi self funding.
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If you are going to use unfounded reports from those with an interest in a particular version of reality then at least support it with some evidence.
You don't see any irony in the above scribe ? :chuckle:
As you forgot, I shared the bloody advertisement for the aircraft from the Chinese manufacturer. It isn't Russian no matter what you might want to make up or what others imagine.
Indulge me and report the link.. i quite prepared to concede and admit my error - if wrong,,,
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An interesting comparison between the USSR navy and the Russian navy. According to this article Russia has a small fraction of the ships the USSR had. In some categories Russia has no ships at all.
In 1990, just before the fall of the Soviet Union, the Red Fleet was big, made up of over 600 ships spread out over dozens of different classes. But here in 2015, 25 years later, the Russian Navy is a fraction of its forebear's size with under 200 ships.
If the USSR couldn't compete against the US when the USSR had a significantly larger navy how does Russia expect to compete against the US with a significantly smaller navy.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a18668/soviet-navy-vs-modern-day-russia-infographic/
Westy, if you are worried that Russia does not have the ability to defend itself, they seem to be in good shape and ready if needed.
Russia Is Absolutely Ready to Defend Itself (Video)
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/russia-absolutely-ready-defend-itself-video/ri11981
How is Putin going to pay for all his new toys with $30/barrel oil?
The Secret Money Behind Vladimir Putin's War Machine
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-02/putin-s-secret-budget-hides-shift-toward-war-economy
Tom Cat that article is from June 2015, at the time oil was at about $65/barrel, oil is now at about $37/barrel and probably going lower. That's a big problem for a country like Russia that relies on oil and natural gas for so much of its foreign revenue.
IOW, whatever was said about military spending 6 months ago is probably not possible now because the foreign revenue isn't likely to be available.
The way Russia is getting military contracts I would think the Russian military is semi self funding.
Not even close Tom Cat. We all know that Russia is the #2 arms exporter but the total sales are only about $6 billion annually. A lot of money to you and me but not to a country like Russia which is in need of tens of billions of dollars to replace lost oil and gas revenue.
However, I'm sure Putin is doing his best to deliver all of the available Russian arms to Syria to show off to potential buyers but still it seems unlikely that sales will all of a sudden double or triple to compensate for lost oil and gas revenue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry
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It's a tad bit more.
Russia’s largest arms exporter quadruples sales in 15yrs
https://www.rt.com/business/319831-russia-arms-sales-increase/
India-Russia Weapons Deal? $7B For S-400 Missile Defense, Submarines, Frigates From Moscow Could Be Agreed On Soon
http://www.ibtimes.com/india-russia-weapons-deal-7b-s-400-missile-defense-submarines-frigates-moscow-could-2234580
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It's a tad bit more.
Russia’s largest arms exporter quadruples sales in 15yrs
https://www.rt.com/business/319831-russia-arms-sales-increase/
India-Russia Weapons Deal? $7B For S-400 Missile Defense, Submarines, Frigates From Moscow Could Be Agreed On Soon
http://www.ibtimes.com/india-russia-weapons-deal-7b-s-400-missile-defense-submarines-frigates-moscow-could-2234580
Those sales to India are multi year so income from those sales will be spread over several years if all sales go through. Also look up how much Russia has lost in oil and gas revenue. It's well over $100 billion. Not going to make that up by selling a few extra fighter jets and missile systems.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2015/04/06/russias-oil-revenue-shrinking-fast/
(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/markadomanis/files/2015/04/Oil-Earnings.png)
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Putin seems to be more than willing to show off the Russian military's achievements.
Mighty missiles: Russian Tor-M2U SAM fires from moving launcher (RARE VIDEO)
https://www.rt.com/news/327140-tor-missile-move-launch/
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After reading this it seems there is only a balance of power when NATO is militarily stronger than Russia. At least it seems to be western train of thought
General in Cash-Strapped NATO Complains About Russian Military Superiority
http://m.sputniknews.com/world/20160101/1032584484/nato-general-russia-better-army.html
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Of course, in most significant respects NATO/US forces should be considered already stronger than those of the RF.
We might consider the effectiveness of their use to leave the advantage to the Russian Federation and their leaders.
If the latter is true then it is likely that even if NATO /US forces were augmented the advantage would still lie with the RF.
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Putin sure has a lot of new toys. Kinda makes one wonder how many shiny new nukes he has?
Sea Ghost: New Russian Submarine is Stealthier Than a 'Black HoleRead more:
http://m.sputniknews.com/russia/20160102/1032604320/russia-submarine-stealth.html
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The Russians already have more serviceable nuclear weapons and delivery systems than the US. Their average age is significantly lower (part of the reason for the increased level of service readiness) and the military is in the process of updating and renewing significant parts of their nuclear defensive capability.
Given the 'surprises' that have already been revealed it seems likely that there are others. Team Bear has been very clear in its signalling to the White House and State Department in particular.
It is worth remembering that each 'unintentional disclosure', every press release and weapons disposition is a signal in the clear to those who would seek to upset Russia and seek harm for Russians and the Russian nation. Kinda similar to the way that many Shakespear plays were written on several levels, each appealing to a segment of the total audience and often unnoticed by those for whom each level was not intended.
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The Russians already have more serviceable nuclear weapons and delivery systems than the US. Their average age is significantly lower (part of the reason for the increased level of service readiness) and the military is in the process of updating and renewing significant parts of their nuclear defensive capability.
Given the 'surprises' that have already been revealed it seems likely that there are others. Team Bear has been very clear in its signalling to the White House and State Department in particular.
It is worth remembering that each 'unintentional disclosure', every press release and weapons disposition is a signal in the clear to those who would seek to upset Russia and seek harm for Russians and the Russian nation. Kinda similar to the way that many Shakespear plays were written on several levels, each appealing to a segment of the total audience and often unnoticed by those for whom each level was not intended.
Basically what you're saying is Putin is willing to bring about Armageddon if he doesn't get his way.
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This is what happens when you have a strong Russia loving CiC modernizing his military capabilities versus and Anti American pro Islamist pro Globalist unilateral Nuclear disarmament anti second amendment CiC determined to force his radical SJW Marxist Feminist pro LGBTQ agenda down the US Military's deep throats.
A solid reason why Trump will be next CiC.
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Westcoast, get your carers to explain what I wrote will you?
It is clear that you are not up to the reading thing all by yourself.
If I had wanted to write the words you invented for me then you, and your care staff, can be assured that I would have written them myself.
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Putin sure has a lot of new toys. Kinda makes one wonder how many shiny new nukes he has?
Sea Ghost: New Russian Submarine is Stealthier Than a 'Black Hole':
Some comments and than the numbers.
An acquaintance of mine retired for about five years from the NUWC in Newport. He is rather tight lipped but he has at times shared some insights and let me study his Janes. He is a snowbird and I will not see him for a couple months. The source of news from Sputnik is at best a PR announcement at worst a high school football coach with a 0 - 12 record saying he has a secret weapon and his team is ready to turn a corner.
The hull design of the Lada class will create cavitations and turbulence. Not exactly a quiet design. Further the surface looks like it was used in a demolition derby earlier. Simply fugly and slow. Compare to the American Virginia and even a layperson can see a slippery smooth hull shape. The use of 'tiles' is nothing new, the German navy used them extensively in the 2nd World War.
OK the numbers.
The submerged hull speed of the Lada is 21 knots and on the surface 10 knots. I strongly doubt this and suspect the Russians are sandbagging. I would add another 20%. The American version reports a speed submerged of 35 knots and 28 on the surface. Again I think the actual numbers are higher. I watched a Virginia class sub traverse on the surface Block Island Sound it was pushing 35 knots. (But I was doing DR.) What was odd the bow wave was small, indicating an efficient hull design.
The Lada weighs 2,360 tons ~ The Virginia is three times heavier. The horsepower is 2,700 for the Lada (sounds like they copied the car) The Virginia has over 40,000 horsepower. Further even though the Virginia class is 115 meters long and 10 meters beam the Lada comes in at an overall length 72 meters and 7 meters. Both vessels have a similar draft of about 7 meters. (This is one number that I do not trust on the American side.) The Virginia by virtue of its nuclear power plant has an unlimited range. The Lada can operate for less than two months at sea.
The weapons payload of the Russian might sink a few ships but the American has an extensive weapon array by a factor of five.
The United States navy has operational 12 vessels and another 5 in various stages of build. The first Lada was rejected and the new vessel is undergoing testing that is depicted.
In the for what it is worth department the Russian Submarine fleet as with civilian airlines has a long and not very admirable record of serious incidents and accidents.
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Vladimir Putin unleashes his new secret weapon in the fight against ISIS - an army of super smelling RATS
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3383827/Vladimir-Putin-unleashes-new-secret-weapon-fight-against-ISIS-army-super-smelling-RATS-three-months-train-live-year.html
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Funny thing, the Russians are noted as the leaders in silent submarine technology.
Some folks with a boat might be getting confused here by comparing apples and oranges. A few words to assist the confused: A small sub has a different task and mission profile to a large one. Comparing them in terms of their time at sea makes little sense.
Another point to aid the confused: a non-nuclear sub is quieter, when it is being quiet, than a nuclear sub can ever be. If one does some reading one'll probably find that there's a still major power that is returning to non-nuclear subs for this reason. That power will be building boats that emulate the Russian ones.
So, when making comparisons from the deck of one's dinghy try to compare like with like. It'll help one's analysis. ;)
However, yes, the press release IS designed as a signal. There will have been other signals not aimed at wine loving hobby sailors that will have been, for that reason, unnoticed by them.
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Funny thing, the Russians are noted as the leaders in silent submarine technology.
Some folks with a boat might be getting confused here by comparing apples and oranges. A few words to assist the confused: A small sub has a different task and mission profile to a large one. Comparing them in terms of their time at sea makes little sense.
Odd thing the Russians are noted in disasters littering the ocean floor with nuclear reactors and dead subbies. I suspect you have been replaying a bit too much of The Hunt for the Red October. Really Andrew try to stay in the real world and not in your fantasy land. Inherently a diesel submarine is going to be more noisy, couple that with an out dated hull design that is rough will not help the cause
Both vessels are designed for the same tasks you might be comparing a Granny Smith's to a Cortland's apple but I doubt you would be able to tell the difference of one or the other if it fell on your noggin.
The numbers and records speak for them selves.
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Funny thing, the Russians are noted as the leaders in silent submarine technology.
Some folks with a boat might be getting confused here by comparing apples and oranges. A few words to assist the confused: A small sub has a different task and mission profile to a large one. Comparing them in terms of their time at sea makes little sense.
Another point to aid the confused: a non-nuclear sub is quieter, when it is being quiet, than a nuclear sub can ever be. If one does some reading one'll probably find that there's a still major power that is returning to non-nuclear subs for this reason. That power will be building boats that emulate the Russian ones.
So, when making comparisons from the deck of one's dinghy try to compare like with like. It'll help one's analysis. ;)
However, yes, the press release IS designed as a signal. There will have been other signals not aimed at wine loving hobby sailors that will have been, for that reason, unnoticed by them.
As usual completely UNINFORMED balderdash and Horse Puckies from the omniscient Lord Afi of Fo Fum ... and that is all I have to say on the topic...
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Funny thing, the Russians are noted as the leaders in silent submarine technology.
Creditable source, please ?
Some folks with a boat might be getting confused here by comparing apples and oranges. A few words to assist the confused: A small sub has a different task and mission profile to a large one. Comparing them in terms of their time at sea makes little sense.
Best not to compare reliability, then ... :'(
Another point to aid the confused: a non-nuclear sub is quieter, when it is being quiet, than a nuclear sub can ever be. If one does some reading one'll probably find that there's a still major power that is returning to non-nuclear subs for this reason. That power will be building boats that emulate the Russian ones.
Yes, but their endurance is limited - as they need a diesel engine to charge the batteries :chuckle:
However, yes, the press release IS designed as a signal. There will have been other signals not aimed at wine loving hobby sailors that will have been, for that reason, unnoticed by them.
Most hobby sailors clearly know more about subs than you do [ slaps forehead]
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Funny thing, the Russians are noted as the leaders in silent submarine technology.
Creditable source, please ?
From those that I have spoken with there are differing views regarding this. Submariners are one weapon system where there is allot of speculation and hard numbers are difficult to confirm. But lets see what 'proof' Andrew can come up with?
The funny thing might dig himself a deeper hole.
Another point to aid the confused: a non-nuclear sub is quieter, when it is being quiet, than a nuclear sub can ever be. If one does some reading one'll probably find that there's a still major power that is returning to non-nuclear subs for this reason. That power will be building boats that emulate the Russian ones.
Yes, but their endurance is limited - as they need a diesel engine to charge the batteries :chuckle:
Depending on perspective Andrew is half right and I am half wrong, or the other way.
A diesel sub is 'noisier' than a nuclear one but both systems can use there batteries substantially reducing the sonar trail or signature. This is again a technology that was introduced by the German's in the 2nd World War, but might even go back further. The American's copied and adapted it. All fleets use this technology currently. A diesel powered submarine needs air, so they come up to mast/periscope height on occasion. This makes the sub far more vulnerable for surface detection and attack by an adversary.
The term 'Run Silent, Run Deep' comes from a sub in this mode.
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Funny thing, the Russians are noted as the leaders in silent submarine technology.
Creditable source, please ?
From those that I have spoken with there are differing views regarding this. Submariners are one weapon system where there is allot of speculation and hard numbers are difficult to confirm. But lets see what 'proof' Andrew can come up with?
The funny thing might dig himself a deeper hole.
Another point to aid the confused: a non-nuclear sub is quieter, when it is being quiet, than a nuclear sub can ever be. If one does some reading one'll probably find that there's a still major power that is returning to non-nuclear subs for this reason. That power will be building boats that emulate the Russian ones.
Yes, but their endurance is limited - as they need a diesel engine to charge the batteries :chuckle:
Depending on perspective Andrew is half right and I am half wrong, or the other way.
A diesel sub is 'noisier' than a nuclear one but both systems can use there batteries substantially reducing the sonar trail or signature. This is again a technology that was introduced by the German's in the 2nd World War, but might even go back further. The American's copied and adapted it. All fleets use this technology currently. A diesel powered submarine needs air, so they come up to mast/periscope height on occasion. This makes the sub far more vulnerable for surface detection and attack by an adversary.
The term 'Run Silent, Run Deep' comes from a sub in this mode.
AvHdB what you and Andy may be thinking of is something like this Swedish sub. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotland-class_submarine)
There has been a number of write ups about the Gotland Class diesel-electric submarines over the last few years. A diesel electric submarine that some pundits are saying is quieter than a nuke boat (sorry Cuffy :laugh:) yet can stay submerged for weeks at a time.
The tech on this class of sub is so good that even the US Navy is interested in it.
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As you well know Avhdb, itvis absolutely normal for me to know what I am talking about.
For that reason I encourage you to do some learning yourself. I have nothing to prove to you, but you are lacking in knowledge. You could use terms in my previous post as a jumping off point for Internet searches but 'real' books such as those you can find at a library will be of use to you.
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:saint:
As you well know Avhdb, itvis absolutely normal for me to know what I am talking about.
For that reason I encourage you to do some learning yourself. I have nothing to prove to you, but you are lacking in knowledge. You could use terms in my previous post as a jumping off point for Internet searches but 'real' books such as those you can find at a library will be of use to you.
Andrew, So you can not supply any credible sources for your nonsense postings? Fine go back and read Andrew in Wonderland or perhaps play with your plastic navy in the bathtub.
For the latter as a suggestion try not to spill to much water.
You are not doing well these days on the Andy BS front.
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This is an very informative article on Russian subs.
The U.S. Navy's Worst Nightmare: Super Advanced Russian Submarines
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-us-navys-worst-nightmare-super-advanced-russian-14203
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Avhdb, it is not for me to re-research things that I already know.
If you are too lazy to learn then, as usual, you can hire me to do that work. Or, as you did before, pay somebody else to discover that I know exactly what I am talking about.
Do not blame me for your laziness or lack of knowledge. I am not your teacher or researcher!
There is a thing called the Internet, there are things called books, learn to use them. :'(
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Russia's Futuristic Infantry Equipment Will Blow Your Mind (Video)
http://russia-insider.com/en/russias-futuristic-infantry-equipment-will-blow-your-mind-video/ri12296
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Russia's 'Rustbucket' Military Is Giving a Hi-Tech Shock to the West
http://russia-insider.com/en/russias-rustbucket-military-giving-hi-tech-shock-west/ri12588
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Russia's 'Rustbucket' Military Is Giving a Hi-Tech Shock to the West
http://russia-insider.com/en/russias-rustbucket-military-giving-hi-tech-shock-west/ri12588
I wonder why Russia Insider doesn't reference the quotes they give for American military personnel and politicians? As a media organisation they must know it's good etiquette to reference any quotes you use.
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Russia's 'Rustbucket' Military Is Giving a Hi-Tech Shock to the West
http://russia-insider.com/en/russias-rustbucket-military-giving-hi-tech-shock-west/ri12588
I wonder why Russia Insider doesn't reference the quotes they give for American military personnel and politicians? As a media organisation they must know it's good etiquette to reference any quotes you use.
The article you referenced is taken from UK media, who reference seldom. They scraped that; hence no sources that were not present in the original.
As a contributor to Russia Insider, I can tell you that their editorial policy is they ask that you reference any sources or quotes with embedded links. If you don't, it is unlikely to pass editorial checking.
Content from mainstream media bypasses that check. The assumption being it is fact checked by an editor already.
Sorry to disappoint you. tiphat
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Russia's 'Rustbucket' Military Is Giving a Hi-Tech Shock to the West
http://russia-insider.com/en/russias-rustbucket-military-giving-hi-tech-shock-west/ri12588
I wonder why Russia Insider doesn't reference the quotes they give for American military personnel and politicians? As a media organisation they must know it's good etiquette to reference any quotes you use.
The article you referenced is taken from UK media, who reference seldom. They scraped that; hence no sources that were not present in the original.
As a contributor to Russia Insider, I can tell you that their editorial policy is they ask that you reference any sources or quotes with embedded links. If you don't, it is unlikely to pass editorial checking.
Content from mainstream media bypasses that check. The assumption being is is fact checked by an editor already.
Sorry to disappoint you. tiphat
The mainstream media that article in Russia Insider from taken from was the UK The Independent which I'm sure you know is owned and operated by a Russian oligarch.
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The mainstream media that article in Russia Insider from taken from was the UK The Independent which I'm sure you know is owned and operated by a Russian oligarch.
Folk like you imagine he is checking personally every word in it before publication to make sure it agrees with his worldview. Same as you imagine Putin is personally micro managing Russia. Here is news for you: these people use something we call delegation.
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Alexander Lebedev (for Westcoast - the co-owner with his son of the Independent) has made it clear that the editorial viewpoint of the publications he owns is not under his control or direction.
Additionally he is no supporter of the Russian government and his Russian based Novaya Gazeta operation most definitely maintains an anti government profile.
As is so often the case, the world is not as Westcoast imagines it to be from the confines and comfort of his La-Z-Boy
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Not all of Putin's new military is high tech.
Russia’s Arctic Brigade training on reindeer sleds in the Far North
http://weirdrussia.com/2016/02/01/russias-arctic-brigade-training-on-reindeer-sleds-in-the-far-north/
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Alexander Lebedev (for Westcoast - the co-owner with his son of the Independent) has made it clear that the editorial viewpoint of the publications he owns is not under his control or direction.
How well do you think his newspapers would sell if he said he has full editorial control. A Russian oligarch exercising editorial control of several UK papers means those papers are not going to be a good sell. If he says he lets his editors run the paper then the impression is that Englishmen and women are running the papers. A much better sell.
Despite what Rupert Murdoch said during the scandal at his papers a few years ago that he didn't know what was happening at the papers in question, it's well known that he exercises editorial control and runs his papers his way.
Additionally he is no supporter of the Russian government and his Russian based Novaya Gazeta operation most definitely maintains an anti government profile.
As is so often the case, the world is not as Westcoast imagines it to be from the confines and comfort of his La-Z-Boy
Don't know how authoritative it is but Wikipedia says the staff of Novaya Gazeta own 51% of the paper. The remaining 49% belong to Mikhail Gorbachev and Alexander Lebedev. Lebedev is a minority shareholder at best.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novaya_Gazeta
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Not all of Putin's new military is high tech.
Russia’s Arctic Brigade training on reindeer sleds in the Far North
http://weirdrussia.com/2016/02/01/russias-arctic-brigade-training-on-reindeer-sleds-in-the-far-north/
I think its very high-tech. Just like Dutch police training Falcons/Eagles to take out drones that disobey the rules.
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Not all of Putin's new military is high tech.
Russia’s Arctic Brigade training on reindeer sleds in the Far North
http://weirdrussia.com/2016/02/01/russias-arctic-brigade-training-on-reindeer-sleds-in-the-far-north/
I think its very high-tech. Just like Dutch police training Falcons/Eagles to take out drones that disobey the rules.
Its much better than trying to cross the country on ski's.
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Its much better than trying to cross the country on ski's.
And also much better than trying to use any kind of petrol-powered vehicle.
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Its much better than trying to cross the country on ski's.
And also much better than trying to use any kind of petrol-powered vehicle.
They can be heard up to 50km away in the wilderness, and they leave one hell of a signature behind them...
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Its much better than trying to cross the country on ski's.
And also much better than trying to use any kind of petrol-powered vehicle.
They can be heard up to 50km away in the wilderness, and they leave one hell of a signature behind them...
And the cost of the additives to keep Diesel liquid at -30C :)
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How Deadly Is the New Russian Uran-9 Drone Tank?
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/how-deadly-new-russian-uran-9-drone-tank/ri12925
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How Deadly Is the New Russian Uran-9 Drone Tank?
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/how-deadly-new-russian-uran-9-drone-tank/ri12925
I wonder how resistant to hacking their software is? The US has lost a couple of UAVs to hacking in the ME. There's been rumours, unconfirmed, that a UAV or 2 has been hacked while on US soil.
Who's to say that Russian drone tanks won't be hacked? Or for that matter any drone tanks that Russia sells to foreign buyers won't include a back door allowing Russia to take control of the drone tank remotely? Russia is home to many very good hackers, I'm sure some of them are state sponsored.
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Russia's Monster Battlecruisers Are Getting Hypersonic Anti-Ship Missiles
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/russias-monster-battlecruisers-are-getting-hypersonic-anti-ship-missiles/ri13002
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The Russian T-90 tank looks impressive in its ability to withstand a direct hit ,by a tow missile.
TOW missile v T-90: Syrian rebel video shows dramatic hit
https://www.rt.com/news/333729-tow-t90-hit-video/
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The Russian T-90 tank looks impressive in its ability to withstand a direct hit ,by a tow missile.
TOW missile v T-90: Syrian rebel video shows dramatic hit
https://www.rt.com/news/333729-tow-t90-hit-video/
Phew, bet the crew had headaches after that.... :chuckle:
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How the Russian Army Will Get Hundreds of New Mean Tanks at Just $240,000 a Pop
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/how-russian-army-will-get-hundreds-new-mean-tanks-just-230000-pop/ri13394
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I was fortunate enough to see the Russian knights preform, I will say they were impressive.
The Russian Knights Celebrate Their 25th Anniversary (Video)
What will they be able to do with thrust vectoring?
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russian-knights-celebrate-their-25th-anniversary-video/ri13911
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Russia's Master Plan for Its Next Class of Deadly Submarines Laid Out
http://russia-insider.com/en/russias-master-plan-its-next-class-deadly-submarines-laid-out/ri13913
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US can't keep pace with Russian submarine deployments - top Navy official
https://www.rt.com/news/339806-us-navy-russian-submarines/
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The US Army Doesn't Seem Real Sure It Could Stop a Russian Invasion of Europe
It's losing its edge in many areas and besides, Russia holds the home team advantage. Luckily for the US Russia has no intention of invading Europe
http://russia-insider.com/en/us-army-doesnt-seem-real-sure-it-could-stop-russian-invasion-europe/ri13944
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The US Army Doesn't Seem Real Sure It Could Stop a Russian Invasion of Europe
It's losing its edge in many areas and besides, Russia holds the home team advantage. Luckily for the US Russia has no intention of invading Europe
http://russia-insider.com/en/us-army-doesnt-seem-real-sure-it-could-stop-russian-invasion-europe/ri13944
What you admitting is Russia is a real threat to Europe. All Putin would have to do is have a bad day and change his mind and invade. Even more likely what would happen if Putin lost control of Russia. There is no reason to think that the new government would be more friendly to the west. This clearly shows Russian army is not for defense of country but an offence design to intimate other countries to do what ever Russia wants or get invaded like Ukraine. Now maybe Europe will understand they are very behind and have a lot of catching up to do.
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The US Army Doesn't Seem Real Sure It Could Stop a Russian Invasion of Europe
It's losing its edge in many areas and besides, Russia holds the home team advantage. Luckily for the US Russia has no intention of invading Europe
http://russia-insider.com/en/us-army-doesnt-seem-real-sure-it-could-stop-russian-invasion-europe/ri13944
What you admitting is Russia is a real threat to Europe. All Putin would have to do is have a bad day and change his mind and invade. Even more likely what would happen if Putin lost control of Russia. There is no reason to think that the new government would be more friendly to the west. This clearly shows Russian army is not for defense of country but an offence design to intimate other countries to do what ever Russia wants or get invaded like Ukraine. Now maybe Europe will understand they are very behind and have a lot of catching up to do.
Ukraine would never had to go through a wake up call, had the United states left well enough alone.
Russia has no reason at the moment to do anything more than protect its borders and interests.
If NATO, and the United states continue to poke the bear with a stick sooner or later they could get bitten.
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Note you said at this time has no plan to attack Europe. What about next week?? Or maybe tomorrow morning??
Russia interest seem to include other people countries and Russia want to decide their way of life. Nothing Russian did in Ukraine was to protect their borders it was destroy Ukraine and the hope of its people. The USA did not do anything in Ukraine that Russia does not do all over Europe and that is support groups that favor it. Why is OK for you guys that Russia does it but if the US or anybody else then it become evil. So now Russia will have to deal with a European government that will be expanding the military budgets of NATO. No problem it keeps Putin into Power and all you guys just love him. Their would of never been a Maiden if Russia was not meddling in Ukraine get them to pull out of agreements in Europe. But all you PP's ( Putin Puppets ) only see one side of the story and of course you all see it exactly the same way.
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The USA did not do anything in Ukraine that Russia does not do all over Europe and that is support groups that favor it.
Please compare the number of regime changes that the United States and Russia have presided over since WWII.
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This is very little to do with the USA this has everything to do with the destruction of the Ukraine and the lives of ethnic Russians that live there. It not about a change in government where the people was able to vote for who they wanted in a few months but a big stick policy where the living standards of Russian in Russia was decreased to destroy the lives of the people of the Ukraine in a war under the pretense to be saving Ethnic Russian when it was really with the intent to destroy their lives.
To do this Putin has now started an arms race which in the past Russia has lost. Going forward as the world replaces oil with renewable it is likely to have the same outcome.
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^ Do you have any idea what a regime change is?
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The USA did not do anything in Ukraine that Russia does not do all over Europe and that is support groups that favor it.
Please compare the number of regime changes that the United States and Russia have presided over since WWII.
A moot point and a way to deflect by using a logical fallacy.
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A moot point and a way to deflect by using a logical fallacy.
Like this?
A light went on and I'm assuming how he meant it is that Michelle Fields is like the boy who cried wolf.
So you think that Manny implied that Fields is "the girl who cried battery," eh?
What I think is that you truly should seek medical attention from a highly qualified Psychologist. :laugh:
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^ Do you have any idea what a regime change is?
Do You??? This is just you failing to address the real issue as you continue with your one liners.
In Ukraine only the President was replaced keeping the Parliament and supreme court to follow constitutional president replacement order. Not normal what is called a regime change which is when the whole government is replaced. President not replaced by USA but by a public reaction to Russia's medaling and stopping campaign promises made by president when he was elected. Russia medaling before maiden is something you pro Russian guys seem to miss. The real cause of maiden.
None of this had anything to do with Russia's invasion in the eastern of Ukraine nor did this threaten Russian border. Just an excuse to destroy Ukraine in order to keep it from becoming part of the EU one day in the future. If it was not going to be controlled by Russia, then it was going to be destroyed. This is why Russia is now considered dangerous in the west. This is why there will be a new arms race that in the future will cost the people of Russia dearly.
Do not worry this new Arms race will be the reason Russians will want to keep Putin as president as we slow return to cold war status. The PP's ( Putin's Puppets) will never catch on to why the West does not like them.
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^ Do you have any idea what a regime change is?
Do You??? This is just you failing to address the real issue as you continue with your one liners.
In Ukraine only the President was replaced keeping the Parliament and supreme court to follow constitutional president replacement order. Not normal what is called a regime change which is when the whole government is replaced. President not replaced by USA but by a public reaction to Russia's medaling and stopping campaign promises made by president when he was elected. Russia medaling before maiden is something you pro Russian guys seem to miss. The real cause of maiden.
None of this had anything to do with Russia's invasion in the eastern of Ukraine nor did this threaten Russian border. Just an excuse to destroy Ukraine in order to keep it from becoming part of the EU one day in the future. If it was not going to be controlled by Russia, then it was going to be destroyed. This is why Russia is now considered dangerous in the west. This is why there will be a new arms race that in the future will cost the people of Russia dearly.
Do not worry this new Arms race will be the reason Russians will want to keep Putin as president as we slow return to cold war status. The PP's ( Putin's Puppets) will never catch on to why the West does not like them.
Normally you write some pretty interesting stuff, but this time you have exceeded yourself, where in heavens name do you get your information from??
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The US Army Doesn't Seem Real Sure It Could Stop a Russian Invasion of Europe
It's losing its edge in many areas and besides, Russia holds the home team advantage. Luckily for the US Russia has no intention of invading Europe
http://russia-insider.com/en/us-army-doesnt-seem-real-sure-it-could-stop-russian-invasion-europe/ri13944
What you admitting is Russia is a real threat to Europe. All Putin would have to do is have a bad day and change his mind and invade. Even more likely what would happen if Putin lost control of Russia. There is no reason to think that the new government would be more friendly to the west. This clearly shows Russian army is not for defense of country but an offence design to intimate other countries to do what ever Russia wants or get invaded like Ukraine. Now maybe Europe will understand they are very behind and have a lot of catching up to do.
More of the same miss-information.
Russian military is hardly big enough for the defence of Russia, let alone offense..
The ONLY country in the world with a military large enough for Offense is the US, and recent history has proven..
Some people here really do need a reality check..
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Tex makes a valid point, if Russia had not meddled in Ukraine such as attempting to assassinate one candidate who was pro West and bought another them most likely Maidan would not have happened.
Also if Russia decided it had enough with Crimea by now the sanctions would have been largely lifted. But Russia was greedy and has its fingers caught in the proverbial cookie jar. Unfortunately Russia is in a box, because of Putin's action with little possible escape. This is for the greater world ~ not a good thing.
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The US Army Doesn't Seem Real Sure It Could Stop a Russian Invasion of Europe
It's losing its edge in many areas and besides, Russia holds the home team advantage. Luckily for the US Russia has no intention of invading Europe
http://russia-insider.com/en/us-army-doesnt-seem-real-sure-it-could-stop-russian-invasion-europe/ri13944
What you admitting is Russia is a real threat to Europe. All Putin would have to do is have a bad day and change his mind and invade. Even more likely what would happen if Putin lost control of Russia. There is no reason to think that the new government would be more friendly to the west. This clearly shows Russian army is not for defense of country but an offence design to intimate other countries to do what ever Russia wants or get invaded like Ukraine. Now maybe Europe will understand they are very behind and have a lot of catching up to do.
More of the same miss-information.
Russian military is hardly big enough for the defence of Russia, let alone offense..
The ONLY country in the world with a military large enough for Offense is the US, and recent history has proven..
Some people here really do need a reality check..
What was Syria, some footsie exercise?
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In Ukraine only the President was replaced keeping the Parliament and supreme court to follow constitutional president replacement order.
No they weren't they replaced the legitimate democraticly elected president who already said they would start a new election process.
Then they disobeyed the Ukrainian constitution, which cites exactly 3 reasons to impeach a bad prezident (the constitution also states it is a finite list) and none of those 3 were followed.
So what ever else happens, Russia is right to call the current Government Junta.
Not normal what is called a regime change which is when the whole government is replaced. President not replaced by USA but by a public reaction to Russia's medaling and stopping campaign promises made by president when he was elected.
More like: Western (I am looking at both Europe/USA) funded NGO using the public as a tool to get what they want. Or didn't you recognise both Juncker and van Baalen dancing on Maidan square "We have won". They surely didn't mean that Ukraine won. No Europe won in their eyes. A more western-friendly government.
Russia medaling before maiden is something you pro Russian guys seem to miss. The real cause of maiden.
I am sure that had mr' Yanukovich explained the public better why he made those choices, they would have supported him. Now they are tasting the bitter fruit of their labour, as Ukraine has gone to hell. But like all politicans, he didn't want to inform the public about his Failure. (with capital F).
None of this had anything to do with Russia's invasion in the eastern of Ukraine nor did this threaten Russian border. Just an excuse to destroy Ukraine in order to keep it from becoming part of the EU one day in the future. If it was not going to be controlled by Russia, then it was going to be destroyed. This is why Russia is now considered dangerous in the west. This is why there will be a new arms race that in the future will cost the people of Russia dearly.
Strange views you have here. Russia responded to a cry from many oblasts that were "mildly stated" not happy with the ousting of Yanukovich. Crimea immediatly wanted out of Ukraine, so did Donbass. Everyone here makes the same misstake of thinking Ukraine as 1 country, because it has 1 border with 1 administration. In reality it is a country torn between 2 factions. East and West, with the river Dnepr as its border. Everything east of Dnepr really didn't want Yanukovich to leave. Kharkov may also secede from Ukraine and join donbass if Ukraine isn't careful. Thats part of why Yatsenyuk was given the boot.
Do not worry this new Arms race will be the reason Russians will want to keep Putin as president as we slow return to cold war status. The PP's ( Putin's Puppets) will never catch on to why the West does not like them.
Putin made it clear he is open to relations with the western world and does not want a new cold war. It is only the west pushing this agenda.
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We interrupt your normal programming for our daily blast of American propaganda:
^ Do you have any idea what a regime change is?
Do You??? This is just you failing to address the real issue as you continue with your one liners.
In Ukraine only the President was replaced keeping the Parliament and supreme court to follow constitutional president replacement order. Not normal what is called a regime change which is when the whole government is replaced. President not replaced by USA but by a public reaction to Russia's medaling and stopping campaign promises made by president when he was elected. Russia medaling before maiden is something you pro Russian guys seem to miss. The real cause of maiden.
None of this had anything to do with Russia's invasion in the eastern of Ukraine nor did this threaten Russian border. Just an excuse to destroy Ukraine in order to keep it from becoming part of the EU one day in the future. If it was not going to be controlled by Russia, then it was going to be destroyed. This is why Russia is now considered dangerous in the west. This is why there will be a new arms race that in the future will cost the people of Russia dearly.
Do not worry this new Arms race will be the reason Russians will want to keep Putin as president as we slow return to cold war status. The PP's ( Putin's Puppets) will never catch on to why the West does not like them.
Tex makes a valid point, if Russia had not meddled in Ukraine such as attempting to assassinate one candidate who was pro West and bought another them most likely Maidan would not have happened.
Also if Russia decided it had enough with Crimea by now the sanctions would have been largely lifted. But Russia was greedy and has its fingers caught in the proverbial cookie jar. Unfortunately Russia is in a box, because of Putin's action with little possible escape. This is for the greater world ~ not a good thing.
This method of unthinking is created by the media in the US which largely promotes viewpoints such as this:
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Also if Russia decided it had enough with Crimea by now the sanctions would have been largely lifted. But Russia was greedy and has its fingers caught in the proverbial cookie jar. Unfortunately Russia is in a box, because of Putin's action with little possible escape. This is for the greater world ~ not a good thing.
I have been to Russia, Ukraine and Crimea.
Crimea is and always has been Russia. They just made it official in March 2014 themselves.
I wasn't surprised at all with the vote turnout. I had thought myself once that if a vote came (this was just shortly after I met Lena) and the turnout would be 100% , 80%+ would vote pro-Russia.
Crimea is happy, Crimea is where it belongs, the sooner the world realises that, the better.
Mark.
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Tex makes a valid point, if Russia had not meddled in Ukraine such as attempting to assassinate one candidate who was pro West and bought another them most likely Maidan would not have happened.
Also if Russia decided it had enough with Crimea by now the sanctions would have been largely lifted. But Russia was greedy and has its fingers caught in the proverbial cookie jar. Unfortunately Russia is in a box, because of Putin's action with little possible escape. This is for the greater world ~ not a good thing.
There is no irrefutable proof to support you statement.
And to be fair, Russia did not start the fighting in the East, The Chocolate president did, probably acting upon orders from his US/EU bosses.
I would strongly suggest that IF the US/EU had stayed out of Ukraine completely, we would not have the situation which we now have..
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The US Army Doesn't Seem Real Sure It Could Stop a Russian Invasion of Europe
It's losing its edge in many areas and besides, Russia holds the home team advantage. Luckily for the US Russia has no intention of invading Europe
http://russia-insider.com/en/us-army-doesnt-seem-real-sure-it-could-stop-russian-invasion-europe/ri13944
What you admitting is Russia is a real threat to Europe. All Putin would have to do is have a bad day and change his mind and invade. Even more likely what would happen if Putin lost control of Russia. There is no reason to think that the new government would be more friendly to the west. This clearly shows Russian army is not for defense of country but an offence design to intimate other countries to do what ever Russia wants or get invaded like Ukraine. Now maybe Europe will understand they are very behind and have a lot of catching up to do.
More of the same miss-information.
Russian military is hardly big enough for the defence of Russia, let alone offense..
The ONLY country in the world with a military large enough for Offense is the US, and recent history has proven..
Some people here really do need a reality check..
What was Syria, some footsie exercise?
An exercise which has resulted in a reasonably well kept ceasefire, after less than 6 months..
An exercise in showing the world that it cannot be allowed to change a legitimate government just because that government does not agree with foreign views.
An exercise showing that the refusal of a government refusing to allow a gas pipeline to run through their country as desired by other countries should be accepted. (because this is the real reason for the Syrian war).
An exercise to demonstrate to the US, that they cannot continue to impress their will on others..
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And to be fair, Russia did not start the fighting in the East,
The GRU did .. plenty of video to show fatigue dressed guys using Leningradsky words for pavement - not used in Donbass - smashing into Ukraine Police amouries - but it will be years before - if ever - the Kremlin release such admissions
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Tex makes a valid point, if Russia had not meddled in Ukraine such as attempting to assassinate one candidate who was pro West and bought another them most likely Maidan would not have happened.
Also if Russia decided it had enough with Crimea by now the sanctions would have been largely lifted. But Russia was greedy and has its fingers caught in the proverbial cookie jar. Unfortunately Russia is in a box, because of Putin's action with little possible escape. This is for the greater world ~ not a good thing.
There is no irrefutable proof to support you statement.
And to be fair, Russia did not start the fighting in the East, The Chocolate president did, probably acting upon orders from his US/EU bosses.
I would strongly suggest that IF the US/EU had stayed out of Ukraine completely, we would not have the situation which we now have..
Usually one attempts to rewrite history when the facts are little more distant in time.
Russia was either greedy or stupid in the East of Ukraine and is now in an uncomfortable situation, most likely it will not be become an Afghanistan but rather a simmering bitches brew.
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Also if Russia decided it had enough with Crimea by now the sanctions would have been largely lifted. But Russia was greedy and has its fingers caught in the proverbial cookie jar. Unfortunately Russia is in a box, because of Putin's action with little possible escape. This is for the greater world ~ not a good thing.
I have been to Russia, Ukraine and Crimea.
Crimea is and always has been Russia. They just made it official in March 2014 themselves.
I wasn't surprised at all with the vote turnout. I had thought myself once that if a vote came (this was just shortly after I met Lena) and the turnout would be 100% , 80%+ would vote pro-Russia.
Crimea is happy, Crimea is where it belongs, the sooner the world realises that, the better.
Mark.
Share those sentiments with the Tartars, who have seen there civil liberties disappear, there land confiscated and some simply disapearing.
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Share those sentiments with the Tartars, who have seen there civil liberties disappear, there land confiscated and some simply disapearing.
You mean civil liberties expanded, not dissapear.
Did you know that Under ukraine, Tatar was not even officially a language? Now it is recognised as a state-language and all Tatars can do business with the Government in their own Tatar language.
There are many more such examples of how things improved for Tatar instead of the lies the western press would have you believe.
The biggest concern of Tatars (as with Russians/Ukrainians) is the reduction in Tourism. However this cannot be attributed to Russia, but is Ukraine that is in tatters and people have no money for vacationing.
Ukrainian news source
http://qha.com.ua/en/politics/turkey-says-russia-ready-to-improve-rights-of-crimean-tatars/132719/
But then again, my inlaws live there , what do I know.
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Share those sentiments with the Tartars, who have seen there civil liberties disappear, there land confiscated and some simply disapearing.
You mean civil liberties expanded, not dissapear.
Did you know that Under ukraine, Tatar was not even officially a language? Now it is recognised as a state-language and all Tatars can do business with the Government in their own Tatar language.
There are many more such examples of how things improved for Tatar instead of the lies the western press would have you believe.
But then again, my inlaws live there , what do I know.
The informal parliament where Kiev considered the wishes of the Tartar's is now banned. The two local Tartar speaking media outlets on the Krim have been closed by the Kremlin.
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The informal parliament which Kiev considered the wishes of the Tartar's is now banned. The two local Tartar speaking media outlets on the Krim have been closed by the Kremlin.
The Tatars that were banned were only interested in creating strife and dissention. They lived permanently in Kiev and not Crimea.
http://www.therussophile.org/tatar-congress-in-simferopol-says-mejlis-does-not-speak-for-crimean-tatar-people.html/
Even the Tatars living in Crimea said they no longer represented the Tatar population whom have chosen new leaders fairly shortly after the annexation. I do not know why the west keeps listening to them, as they obviously no longer represent the Tatars or Tatars well-being. They deliberately created problems for their own people (bombing the electric net AND blocking its repair, causing many Tatars to die in Crimea before Russian help arrived). The west blames this all on Russia of course, which was ear-cringing to hear for me. I was really ashamed of Europe and its news that day.
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151024/1029059143/russia-crimea-mejlis-tatar-ban.html
And the Tatars media outlets are very much alive, I (unfortunately have to) listen to them every time I visit in Summer as most Tatar tourism-business have tuned in to them.
This one is fairly blah, but listenable.
http://tatarradio.ru/
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Also if Russia decided it had enough with Crimea by now the sanctions would have been largely lifted. But Russia was greedy and has its fingers caught in the proverbial cookie jar. Unfortunately Russia is in a box, because of Putin's action with little possible escape. This is for the greater world ~ not a good thing.
I have been to Russia, Ukraine and Crimea.
Crimea is and always has been Russia. They just made it official in March 2014 themselves.
I wasn't surprised at all with the vote turnout. I had thought myself once that if a vote came (this was just shortly after I met Lena) and the turnout would be 100% , 80%+ would vote pro-Russia.
Crimea is happy, Crimea is where it belongs, the sooner the world realises that, the better.
Mark.
Share those sentiments with the Tartars, who have seen there civil liberties disappear, there land confiscated and some simply disapearing.
It is correct that some Ukrainian businesses/oligarchs, along with some Ukrainian Tatars had their company's/property/land confiscated, especially those Ukrainian Tatars who "self imposed themselves" as the community leaders, an avenue which I wholeheartedly disagree with.
One must remember, that the people in the Crimea government, were mostly Russian/Ukrainians, along with many Tartars who were happy to "Return to the motherland", with only some very senior figures losing their positions.
It is also fact, that those Ukrainians Tatars in senior positions were extremely corrupt, staeling millions form the mouths of their own kind.
Crimean Russian/Tatars have on several occasions repudiated claims from their Ukrainian/Tatars counterparts reference to who their leaders are, even to the point of lodging complaints to the US consulate about these un-elected leaders being recognised as the Crimean Tatar community leaders..
One should go and talk with these Crimean Tatars before trying to claim that their civil liberties have been eroded, they will tell you a much different story. (my experience)
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The informal parliament which Kiev considered the wishes of the Tartar's is now banned. The two local Tartar speaking media outlets on the Krim have been closed by the Kremlin.
The Tatars that were banned were only interested in creating strife and dissention. They lived permanently in Kiev and not Crimea.
http://www.therussophile.org/tatar-congress-in-simferopol-says-mejlis-does-not-speak-for-crimean-tatar-people.html/
Even the Tatars living in Crimea said they no longer represented the Tatar population whom have chosen new leaders fairly shortly after the annexation. I do not know why the west keeps listening to them, as they obviously no longer represent the Tatars or Tatars well-being. They deliberately created problems for their own people (bombing the electric net AND blocking its repair, causing many Tatars to die in Crimea before Russian help arrived). The west blames this all on Russia of course, which was ear-cringing to hear for me. I was really ashamed of Europe and its news that day.
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151024/1029059143/russia-crimea-mejlis-tatar-ban.html
And the Tatars media outlets are very much alive, I (unfortunately have to) listen to them every time I visit in Summer as most Tatar tourism-business have tuned in to them.
This one is fairly blah, but listenable.
http://tatarradio.ru/
What I hear from a Tartar family from near Kazan and owned two apartment buildings for summer guests on the Krim is VERY different. It was taken over by 'interests' from Moscow. Oddly enough they were not Muslim but for decennia Orthodox, having served church, imperial Russia and the Soviet Union with distinction.
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Share those sentiments with the Tartars, who have seen there civil liberties disappear, there land confiscated and some simply disapearing.
You mean civil liberties expanded, not dissapear.
Did you know that Under ukraine, Tatar was not even officially a language? Now it is recognised as a state-language and all Tatars can do business with the Government in their own Tatar language.
There are many more such examples of how things improved for Tatar instead of the lies the western press would have you believe.
But then again, my inlaws live there , what do I know.
The informal parliament where Kiev considered the wishes of the Tartar's is now banned. The two local Tartar speaking media outlets on the Krim have been closed by the Kremlin.
It never existed.
Ukraine used/abused the Crimea Tatars..
Wherever you get your information from is inaccurate, better go and see for your self
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The informal parliament which Kiev considered the wishes of the Tartar's is now banned. The two local Tartar speaking media outlets on the Krim have been closed by the Kremlin.
The Tatars that were banned were only interested in creating strife and dissention. They lived permanently in Kiev and not Crimea.
http://www.therussophile.org/tatar-congress-in-simferopol-says-mejlis-does-not-speak-for-crimean-tatar-people.html/
Even the Tatars living in Crimea said they no longer represented the Tatar population whom have chosen new leaders fairly shortly after the annexation. I do not know why the west keeps listening to them, as they obviously no longer represent the Tatars or Tatars well-being. They deliberately created problems for their own people (bombing the electric net AND blocking its repair, causing many Tatars to die in Crimea before Russian help arrived). The west blames this all on Russia of course, which was ear-cringing to hear for me. I was really ashamed of Europe and its news that day.
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151024/1029059143/russia-crimea-mejlis-tatar-ban.html
And the Tatars media outlets are very much alive, I (unfortunately have to) listen to them every time I visit in Summer as most Tatar tourism-business have tuned in to them.
This one is fairly blah, but listenable.
http://tatarradio.ru/
What I hear from a Tartar family from near Kazan and owned two apartment buildings for summer guests on the Krim is VERY different. It was taken over by 'interests' from Moscow. Oddly enough they were not Muslim but for decennia Orthodox, having served church, imperial Russia and the Soviet Union with distinction.
Legally, this can be successfully challenged, if it is correct. (Which I doubt).
I also know Tatars in Kazan who own properties in Crimea, and surprise, surprise, their properties are still owned by them, I stayed in one last year, and hope to again very soon, right in the middle of a Tatar community.
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^ Do you have any idea what a regime change is?
Do You??? This is just you failing to address the real issue as you continue with your one liners.
I try to keep my point simple for readers who can't deal with more than one line.
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We interrupt your normal programming for our daily blast of American propaganda:
^ Do you have any idea what a regime change is?
Do You??? This is just you failing to address the real issue as you continue with your one liners.
In Ukraine only the President was replaced keeping the Parliament and supreme court to follow constitutional president replacement order. Not normal what is called a regime change which is when the whole government is replaced. President not replaced by USA but by a public reaction to Russia's medaling and stopping campaign promises made by president when he was elected. Russia medaling before maiden is something you pro Russian guys seem to miss. The real cause of maiden.
None of this had anything to do with Russia's invasion in the eastern of Ukraine nor did this threaten Russian border. Just an excuse to destroy Ukraine in order to keep it from becoming part of the EU one day in the future. If it was not going to be controlled by Russia, then it was going to be destroyed. This is why Russia is now considered dangerous in the west. This is why there will be a new arms race that in the future will cost the people of Russia dearly.
Do not worry this new Arms race will be the reason Russians will want to keep Putin as president as we slow return to cold war status. The PP's ( Putin's Puppets) will never catch on to why the West does not like them.
Tex makes a valid point, if Russia had not meddled in Ukraine such as attempting to assassinate one candidate who was pro West and bought another them most likely Maidan would not have happened.
Also if Russia decided it had enough with Crimea by now the sanctions would have been largely lifted. But Russia was greedy and has its fingers caught in the proverbial cookie jar. Unfortunately Russia is in a box, because of Putin's action with little possible escape. This is for the greater world ~ not a good thing.
This method of unthinking is created by the media in the US which largely promotes viewpoints such as this:
Not a valid youtube URL
Oh dear, it seems the Moby Swerve is infectious.
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Tex makes a valid point, if Russia had not meddled in Ukraine such as attempting to assassinate one candidate who was pro West and bought another them most likely Maidan would not have happened.
Also if Russia decided it had enough with Crimea by now the sanctions would have been largely lifted. But Russia was greedy and has its fingers caught in the proverbial cookie jar. Unfortunately Russia is in a box, because of Putin's action with little possible escape. This is for the greater world ~ not a good thing.
There is no irrefutable proof to support you statement.
And to be fair, Russia did not start the fighting in the East, The Chocolate president did, probably acting upon orders from his US/EU bosses.
I would strongly suggest that IF the US/EU had stayed out of Ukraine completely, we would not have the situation which we now have..
Usually one attempts to rewrite history when the facts are little more distant in time.
Russia was either greedy or stupid in the East of Ukraine and is now in an uncomfortable situation, most likely it will not be become an Afghanistan but rather a simmering bitches brew.
Exactly, just as it has been for many years before the more recent sh1t started. :thumbsup:
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The US Army Doesn't Seem Real Sure It Could Stop a Russian Invasion of Europe
It's losing its edge in many areas and besides, Russia holds the home team advantage. Luckily for the US Russia has no intention of invading Europe
http://russia-insider.com/en/us-army-doesnt-seem-real-sure-it-could-stop-russian-invasion-europe/ri13944
What you admitting is Russia is a real threat to Europe. All Putin would have to do is have a bad day and change his mind and invade. Even more likely what would happen if Putin lost control of Russia. There is no reason to think that the new government would be more friendly to the west. This clearly shows Russian army is not for defense of country but an offence design to intimate other countries to do what ever Russia wants or get invaded like Ukraine. Now maybe Europe will understand they are very behind and have a lot of catching up to do.
More of the same miss-information.
Russian military is hardly big enough for the defence of Russia, let alone offense..
The ONLY country in the world with a military large enough for Offense is the US, and recent history has proven..
Some people here really do need a reality check..
What was Syria, some footsie exercise?
An exercise which has resulted in a reasonably well kept ceasefire, after less than 6 months..
An exercise in showing the world that it cannot be allowed to change a legitimate government just because that government does not agree with foreign views.
An exercise showing that the refusal of a government refusing to allow a gas pipeline to run through their country as desired by other countries should be accepted. (because this is the real reason for the Syrian war).
An exercise to demonstrate to the US, that they cannot continue to impress their will on others..
Here here! :thumbsup:
p.s. And well done Markje for clearing up more nonsense, usually absorbed & regurgitated by sheep looking to justify their governments obvious anti Russian bias.
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More correctly, Russia is preparing for NATO aggression.
Polish minister says Russia preparing aggression against NATO: report
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0XG0UB
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The war in the Ukraine east started when Russia sent people to organize groups it has been funding there to start to taking over buildings.
The war in Syria was started by Sunis who were being depressed and killed buy their government for demanded and more say in that government. Their peaceful protest was meet with guns tanks and chemical weapons. The US stayed out of the war for years as the Turks supported the rebels. To listen to you guys it was a war that the US started. Note Russia is usually friends with countries on it's boarder that it can intimidate or oppressive shite terrorists government. Note yes there is more peace now but the Sunis who want political freedom are not getting it neither.
This is part of a larger war that is brewing between Saudi Arabia and Iran. It is shaping up to be a Suni and shite war. Some how I am sure you guys will all blame the USA for this war also. It is very possible over a time not to long from now this war could go nuclear on both sides. Russia supporting Iran getting nuclear weapons will likely have grave consequences as these weapons will likely get used.
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More correctly, Russia is preparing for NATO aggression.
Polish minister says Russia preparing aggression against NATO: report
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0XG0UB
Those poles really are scaremongers', they will do anything possibly to get NATO and the US to invest into their failing economy...
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The war in the Ukraine east started when Russia sent people to organize groups it has been funding there to start to taking over buildings.
The war in Syria was started by Sunis who were being depressed and killed buy their government for demanded and more say in that government. Their peaceful protest was meet with guns tanks and chemical weapons. The US stayed out of the war for years as the Turks supported the rebels. To listen to you guys it was a war that the US started. Note Russia is usually friends with countries on it's boarder that it can intimidate or oppressive shite terrorists government. Note yes there is more peace now but the Sunis who want political freedom are not getting it neither.
This is part of a larger war that is brewing between Saudi Arabia and Iran. It is shaping up to be a Suni and shite war. Some how I am sure you guys will all blame the USA for this war also. It is very possible over a time not to long from now this war could go nuclear on both sides. Russia supporting Iran getting nuclear weapons will likely have grave consequences as these weapons will likely get used.
They did...Well spotted...
In east Ukraine there was anarchy and anti government rebellion, similar to the Maiden, which could have been resolved in a more peaceful manner, but NO, choccy pressie, under orders from his paymasters in the west, ordered his troops to open fire, thereby starting the war..
To solve the problems there, Minsk 1&2 were agreed, but again, choccy pressie makes agreements and promises which he does not carry out... and why??, because he has no intention to, and wishes the west to continue sanctions against Russia..
As far as the rest of your post goes, you really do need a reality check, KSA could NOT beat Iran in a boxing match let alone anything else..
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SA just borrowed 10 billion dollars to prop up their failing economy as the oil-prices fall.
Banks say its just a test and small change for this country, but I don't think so.
Mark.
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With regard to non-performance of their Minsk obligations by the Kievan administration. It is almost certainly true to suggest that there are two overriding reasons why the accord is not being implemented.
1) By not implementing the accord Kiev gets to blame all the bad stuff in the country upon Russia - the big bad bogey man. If the accord is implemented then the 'problem' of Donbas goes away but the shit remains - with no external target for hate.
2) Poroshenko does not have the power to implement the accord. When the constitution was wound back to the 2004(?) version the powers of the president to implement legislation were removed and placed in the hands of people who have no interest in seeing the accord implemented. Under the constitution version implemented under Yanukovych it would have been perfectly possible to get the Minks accord implemented.
We can suggest, and it may be true, that the US is in the driving seat here, but I believe that, given his druthers, Poroshenko would probably have implemented under Minsk 1 and certainly under Minsk 2. The Russian government and state seem to think so and have treated Poroshenko as the 'least bad' option within Ukraine. Personally, I can see nobody within, or close to, the Kievan administration who is more likely to implement than Poroshenko and who might expect to have the power to do so. I am still betting that, at some point, Zakarchenko will end up as either president or prime minister of a more united Ukraine.
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A moot point and a way to deflect by using a logical fallacy.
Like this?
A light went on and I'm assuming how he meant it is that Michelle Fields is like the boy who cried wolf.
So you think that Manny implied that Fields is "the girl who cried battery," eh?
What I think is that you truly should seek medical attention from a highly qualified Psychologist. :laugh:
No. However why am I not surprised? You would compare your unhealthy obsession and belief that hussy Michelle Fields was allegedly assaulted, versus the illegal occupation of Ukraine by the invader Russia?
As I stated, a moot point.
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Tex makes a valid point, if Russia had not meddled in Ukraine such as attempting to assassinate one candidate who was pro West and bought another them most likely Maidan would not have happened.
Also if Russia decided it had enough with Crimea by now the sanctions would have been largely lifted. But Russia was greedy and has its fingers caught in the proverbial cookie jar. Unfortunately Russia is in a box, because of Putin's action with little possible escape. This is for the greater world ~ not a good thing.
There is no irrefutable proof to support you statement.
And to be fair, Russia did not start the fighting in the East, The Chocolate president did, probably acting upon orders from his US/EU bosses.
I would strongly suggest that IF the US/EU had stayed out of Ukraine completely, we would not have the situation which we now have..
The preponderance of evidence clearly points towards Russian involvement and direction of the assination attempt.
Since unless you have some special conduit to the Kremlin you can not prove one jot of what you are mumbling about the Russian invasion and fighting in Eastern Ukraine. The various images paint a very clear picture of Russian involvement.
Historically Russia has meddled for centuries in the Borderlands and continues to do so. The 'involvement' from the EU/US is recent and has been that of a sort of benign uncle. Ukraine as a nation (it's people) has yearned for generations to closer ties to what it sees as a better partner in the west than the oppression and second string fiddle that Moscow offers.
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Russia's New Black Sea Frigates Are Light, Fast, and Lethal (Video)
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/russias-new-black-sea-frigates-are-light-fast-and-lethal/ri14070
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The USA has just sent it's most advanced aircraft to Romania. Why? Obviously because of Putin's saber rattling and his invasion of Ukraine.
Our allies in Eastern Europe want to know that we will honor our obligations under NATO.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-sends-f-22-fighters-to-reassure-nato-allies-facing-russia/ar-BBsdZuq?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp
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The USA has just sent it's most advanced aircraft to Romania. Why? Obviously because of Putin's saber rattling and his invasion of Ukraine.
Our allies in Eastern Europe want to know that we will honor our obligations under NATO.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-sends-f-22-fighters-to-reassure-nato-allies-facing-russia/ar-BBsdZuq?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp
usa aggression. I cant find any othef reason.
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U.S. ARMY HUMVEE DROP FAIL: VIDEO SHOWING THREE VEHICLES PLUMMETING FROM THE SKY GOES VIRAL [VIDEO
http://www.inquisitr.com/3022124/u-s-army-humvee-drop-fail-video-showing-three-vehicles-plummeting-from-the-sky-goes-viral-video/
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The USA has just sent it's most advanced aircraft to Romania. Why? Obviously because of Putin's saber rattling and his invasion of Ukraine.
Our allies in Eastern Europe want to know that we will honor our obligations under NATO.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-sends-f-22-fighters-to-reassure-nato-allies-facing-russia/ar-BBsdZuq?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp
usa aggression. I cant find any othef reason.
Sure. Russia invaded and took Crimea and has invaded Eastern Ukraine. Putin bragged he could take Kiev in 72 hours. I realize Russia and Ukraine historically had a long relationship so let's ignore that one.
Historically Russia has a history of bullying other neighbors in Eastern Europe. Just look at what Russia did to Poland, Romania and all the Baltic nations during and after WWII. Look at what Russia did to Hungary in 1956. All of these nations have a reason to want to be able to defend themselves.
Russia buzzed a US Destroyer on lawful exercises with Poland. Russia wrongly thinks that they should be able to control what other nations do on their own volition in International waters and airspace.
Any and all US & NATO activities are defensive in nature. NATO is there to prevent Russian aggression, not the other way around.
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Putin bragged he could take Kiev in 72 hours.
No he didn't. That was taken out of context. You might want to look it up. The actual text is on kremlin.ru
I realize Russia and Ukraine historically had a long relationship so let's ignore that one.
Yes, lets ignore inconvenient facts. :-\
Historically Russia has a history of bullying other neighbors in Eastern Europe. Just look at what Russia did to Poland, Romania and all the Baltic nations during and after WWII. Look at what Russia did to Hungary in 1956. All of these nations have a reason to want to be able to defend themselves.
Look at what the US has done in the last few decades and how many countries it has invaded and changed the regime in. Russia has a reason to want to be able to defend themselves.
Russia buzzed a US Destroyer on lawful exercises with Poland. Russia wrongly thinks that they should be able to control what other nations do on their own volition in International waters and airspace.
Russia buzzed a warship from an aggressive nation near to its coast. Normal I think.
Any and all US & NATO activities are defensive in nature. NATO is there to prevent Russian aggression, not the other way around.
:ROFL:
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Any and all US & NATO activities are defensive in nature. NATO is there to prevent Russian aggression, not the other way around.
You try telling that to Kadaffi.
OH you can't he's dead.
Saddam Hussein then.
OH you can't he's dead.
Emm, emm. I know, lets ask Assad.
He's not dead.... Oh he too thinks NATO is the aggressor here and he's thankful Russia came to his aid when he asked, because Syrian airspace is violated daily by NATO allies who have no jurisdiction there and are unwelcome. In fact, they are battling the legitimate Syrian state because they think Assad should go. Can you imagine that if USA would fall into civil war and Suddenly Russia invaded your airspace and started bombing the white house because the white house prez should go? Please try to think from the other side and not just the crap the USA feeds you.
I can go on, but the point is clear, Russia has a definitive reason to be worried about NATO, whose charter states it is against Russia. No other reason to exist but to antagonise Russia.
Mark.
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Russia The USA wrongly thinks that they should be able to control what other nations do on their own volition in International waters and airspace.
Fixed it for you.
I just love the mentality of folks like Anteros. The US sends hardware designed for lethal combat into a neighbouring country of Russia, and they all start whooping, high fiving, chanting USA and genuinely believe that the US is a welcome addition to yet another area around the globe. :'(
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I can go on, but the point is clear, Russia has a definitive reason to be worried about NATO, whose charter states it is against Russia. No other reason to exist but to antagonise Russia.
I think when a Russian leader in the Soviet period comes to America and in front of an international audience tells that his country is going to 'bury' America one can be a tad concerned. That mentality has not changed much.
If NATO did not exist I suspect the civil liberties of Europeans citizens would be fewer and the Russian language skills would be better.
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I can go on, but the point is clear, Russia has a definitive reason to be worried about NATO, whose charter states it is against Russia. No other reason to exist but to antagonise Russia.
I think when a Russian leader in the Soviet period comes to America and in front of an international audience tells that his country is going to 'bury' America one can be a tad concerned. That mentality has not changed much.
If NATO did not exist I suspect the civil liberties of Europeans citizens would be fewer and the Russian language skills would be better.
Exactly! These guys conveniently forget what Russia did during the Soviet Union. I say Russia because Russia was always the dominant leader of the Soviet Union, and they haven't changed their aggressive and egotistical attitudes at all.
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Russia wrongly thinks that they should be able to control what other nations do on their own volition in International waters and airspace.
Fixed it for you.
I just love the mentality of folks like Anteros. The US sends hardware designed for lethal combat into a neighbouring country of Russia, and they all start whooping, high fiving, chanting USA and genuinely believe that the US is a welcome addition to yet another area around the globe. :'(
If Russia had an real allies in Europe they could conduct war drills in International waters off the coast of Kaliningrad or somewhere else, but they don't now do they? Please tell our audience why that is? :ROFL:
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Any and all US & NATO activities are defensive in nature. NATO is there to prevent Russian aggression, not the other way around.
You try telling that to Kadaffi.
OH you can't he's dead.
Saddam Hussein then.
OH you can't he's dead.
Emm, emm. I know, lets ask Assad.
He's not dead.... Oh he too thinks NATO is the aggressor here and he's thankful Russia came to his aid when he asked, because Syrian airspace is violated daily by NATO allies who have no jurisdiction there and are unwelcome. In fact, they are battling the legitimate Syrian state because they think Assad should go. Can you imagine that if USA would fall into civil war and Suddenly Russia invaded your airspace and started bombing the white house because the white house prez should go? Please try to think from the other side and not just the crap the USA feeds you.
I can go on, but the point is clear, Russia has a definitive reason to be worried about NATO, whose charter states it is against Russia. No other reason to exist but to antagonise Russia.
Mark.
Hitler is dead also, a regime change enacted by the Soviet Union, let by Russia. Since I really don't see a lot of difference between Hussein and Kadaffi and Hitler, just what is your point?
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Putin bragged he could take Kiev in 72 hours.
No he didn't. That was taken out of context. You might want to look it up. The actual text is on kremlin.ru
He also said;
No Russian forces involved in the [ military] take-over of Crimea ....
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Really, Ant and Moby, kremlin.ru allows one to read what was actually said, not western media biased interpretation of selected quotes. Then one can make ones own mind up. You should try a less blinkered approach and seek out facts instead of swerving and spreading propaganda as you do. You don't have to be silly; its something you choose to do.
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Putin bragged he could take Kiev in 72 hours.
No he didn't. That was taken out of context. You might want to look it up. The actual text is on kremlin.ru
He also said;
No Russian forces involved in the [ military] take-over of Crimea ....
From the resident clairvoyant.
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Really, Anteros and Moby, kremlin.ru allows one to read what was actually said, not western media biased interpretation of selected quotes. Then one can make ones own mind up. You should try a less blinkered approach and seek out facts instead of swerving and spreading propaganda as you do. You don't have to be silly; its something you choose to do.
I can see with my own eyes what happened. When I visited Crimea it was an autonomous and peaceful portion of the nation of Ukraine.
Since then Russian special forces showed up and Ukrainian language schools were shut, Tatars were murdered and discriminated against. business's were stolen from Ukrainians and given to Russian elites.
Then we saw the attempts to carry out the same scenario's in Kharkov and in Odessa. We saw tanks roll into Eastern Ukraine and we saw artillery fired from Russia into Ukraine during the siege and encirclement of Debaltsevo. We've seen 6,000 persons perish and over a Million displaced, to appease the greed and arrogance of the Putin regime. We saw a civilian aircraft blown out of the sky and many souls murdered in a heinous act by the 53rd Brigade out of Kursk.
And you want me to read some nightmarish Orwellian double-speak on the Kremlin website? No thanks. I trust the Kremlin less than I trust the Obama administration, which is less than zero. Have a nice day. tiphat
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Really, Anteros and Moby, kremlin.ru allows one to read what was actually said, not western media biased interpretation of selected quotes. Then one can make ones own mind up. You should try a less blinkered approach and seek out facts instead of swerving and spreading propaganda as you do. You don't have to be silly; its something you choose to do.
I can see with my own eyes what happened. When I visited Crimea it was an autonomous and peaceful portion of the nation of Ukraine.
Since then Russian special forces showed up and Ukrainian language schools were shut, Tatars were murdered and discriminated against. business's were stolen from Ukrainians and given to Russian elites.
Then we saw the attempts to carry out the same scenario's in Kharkov and in Odessa. We saw tanks roll into Eastern Ukraine and we saw artillery fired from Russia into Ukraine during the siege and encirclement of Debaltsevo. We've seen 6,000 persons perish and over a Million displaced, to appease the greed and arrogance of the Putin regime. We saw a civilian aircraft blown out of the sky and many souls murdered in a heinous act by the 53rd Brigade out of Kursk.
And you want me to read some nightmarish Orwellian double-speak on the Kremlin website? No thanks. I trust the Kremlin less than I trust the Obama administration, which is less than zero. Have a nice day. tiphat
So you are now telling us that you were actually there, in all of these different places, and saw with your own eyes, a first hand account, WOW..
Btw, just how many times have you actually visited Crimea, and Ukraine, and what dates were these visits??
Or did you only see these things from the comport of your armchair at home??
:coffeeread:
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Really, Anteros and Moby, kremlin.ru allows one to read what was actually said, not western media biased interpretation of selected quotes. Then one can make ones own mind up. You should try a less blinkered approach and seek out facts instead of swerving and spreading propaganda as you do. You don't have to be silly; its something you choose to do.
I can see with my own eyes what happened. When I visited Crimea it was an autonomous and peaceful portion of the nation of Ukraine.
Since then Russian special forces showed up and Ukrainian language schools were shut, Tatars were murdered and discriminated against. business's were stolen from Ukrainians and given to Russian elites.
Then we saw the attempts to carry out the same scenario's in Kharkov and in Odessa. We saw tanks roll into Eastern Ukraine and we saw artillery fired from Russia into Ukraine during the siege and encirclement of Debaltsevo. We've seen 6,000 persons perish and over a Million displaced, to appease the greed and arrogance of the Putin regime. We saw a civilian aircraft blown out of the sky and many souls murdered in a heinous act by the 53rd Brigade out of Kursk.
And you want me to read some nightmarish Orwellian double-speak on the Kremlin website? No thanks. I trust the Kremlin less than I trust the Obama administration, which is less than zero. Have a nice day. tiphat
So you are now telling us that you were actually there, in all of these different places, and saw with your own eyes, a first hand account, WOW..
Btw, just how many times have you actually visited Crimea, and Ukraine, and what dates were these visits??
Or did you only see these things from the comport of your armchair at home??
:coffeeread:
What, you think I'm going to post a screenshot of my 5 different passports with 5 different alias's to make you happy? :ROFL:
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I can see with my own eyes what happened. When I visited Crimea it was an autonomous and peaceful portion of the nation of Ukraine.
Since then Russian special forces showed up and Ukrainian language schools were shut, Tatars were murdered and discriminated against. business's were stolen from Ukrainians and given to Russian elites.
Clearly you have never visitted Crimea, or you're lying on purpose with above text. Either way, you're lying.
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Really, Anteros and Moby, kremlin.ru allows one to read what was actually said, not western media biased interpretation of selected quotes. Then one can make ones own mind up. You should try a less blinkered approach and seek out facts instead of swerving and spreading propaganda as you do. You don't have to be silly; its something you choose to do.
I can see with my own eyes what happened. When I visited Crimea it was an autonomous and peaceful portion of the nation of Ukraine.
Since then Russian special forces showed up and Ukrainian language schools were shut, Tatars were murdered and discriminated against. business's were stolen from Ukrainians and given to Russian elites.
Then we saw the attempts to carry out the same scenario's in Kharkov and in Odessa. We saw tanks roll into Eastern Ukraine and we saw artillery fired from Russia into Ukraine during the siege and encirclement of Debaltsevo. We've seen 6,000 persons perish and over a Million displaced, to appease the greed and arrogance of the Putin regime. We saw a civilian aircraft blown out of the sky and many souls murdered in a heinous act by the 53rd Brigade out of Kursk.
And you want me to read some nightmarish Orwellian double-speak on the Kremlin website? No thanks. I trust the Kremlin less than I trust the Obama administration, which is less than zero. Have a nice day. tiphat
So you are now telling us that you were actually there, in all of these different places, and saw with your own eyes, a first hand account, WOW..
Btw, just how many times have you actually visited Crimea, and Ukraine, and what dates were these visits??
Or did you only see these things from the comport of your armchair at home??
:coffeeread:
What, you think I'm going to post a screenshot of my 5 different passports with 5 different alias's to make you happy? :ROFL:
No, just tell the truth, and stop posting BS..
Nothing more, nothing less.
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Really, Anteros and Moby, kremlin.ru allows one to read what was actually said, not western media biased interpretation of selected quotes. Then one can make ones own mind up. You should try a less blinkered approach and seek out facts instead of swerving and spreading propaganda as you do. You don't have to be silly; its something you choose to do.
I can see with my own eyes what happened. When I visited Crimea it was an autonomous and peaceful portion of the nation of Ukraine.
Since then Russian special forces showed up and Ukrainian language schools were shut, Tatars were murdered and discriminated against. business's were stolen from Ukrainians and given to Russian elites.
Then we saw the attempts to carry out the same scenario's in Kharkov and in Odessa. We saw tanks roll into Eastern Ukraine and we saw artillery fired from Russia into Ukraine during the siege and encirclement of Debaltsevo. We've seen 6,000 persons perish and over a Million displaced, to appease the greed and arrogance of the Putin regime. We saw a civilian aircraft blown out of the sky and many souls murdered in a heinous act by the 53rd Brigade out of Kursk.
And you want me to read some nightmarish Orwellian double-speak on the Kremlin website? No thanks. I trust the Kremlin less than I trust the Obama administration, which is less than zero. Have a nice day. tiphat
So you are now telling us that you were actually there, in all of these different places, and saw with your own eyes, a first hand account, WOW..
Btw, just how many times have you actually visited Crimea, and Ukraine, and what dates were these visits??
Or did you only see these things from the comport of your armchair at home??
:coffeeread:
What, you think I'm going to post a screenshot of my 5 different passports with 5 different alias's to make you happy? :ROFL:
No, just tell the truth, and stop posting BS..
Nothing more, nothing less.
I've already posted the truth. I have been to Ukraine. That's all you need to know.
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Really, Anteros and Moby, kremlin.ru allows one to read what was actually said, not western media biased interpretation of selected quotes. Then one can make ones own mind up. You should try a less blinkered approach and seek out facts instead of swerving and spreading propaganda as you do. You don't have to be silly; its something you choose to do.
I can see with my own eyes what happened. When I visited Crimea it was an autonomous and peaceful portion of the nation of Ukraine.
Since then Russian special forces showed up and Ukrainian language schools were shut, Tatars were murdered and discriminated against. business's were stolen from Ukrainians and given to Russian elites.
Then we saw the attempts to carry out the same scenario's in Kharkov and in Odessa. We saw tanks roll into Eastern Ukraine and we saw artillery fired from Russia into Ukraine during the siege and encirclement of Debaltsevo. We've seen 6,000 persons perish and over a Million displaced, to appease the greed and arrogance of the Putin regime. We saw a civilian aircraft blown out of the sky and many souls murdered in a heinous act by the 53rd Brigade out of Kursk.
And you want me to read some nightmarish Orwellian double-speak on the Kremlin website? No thanks. I trust the Kremlin less than I trust the Obama administration, which is less than zero. Have a nice day. tiphat
I'd get back to your Fox News if I were you. You might be missing some babbling about Russian aggression. Or the breaking news that Putin is poised in invade Idaho or something. Better yet, why not give Moby a call? You can make stuff up together and form a nifty trans-Atlantic propaganda tag team.
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I've already posted the truth. I have been to Ukraine. That's all you need to know.
Once, but missed the fireworks which you claim to have seen..
You are all talk my friend, nothing more..
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I've already posted the truth. I have been to Ukraine. That's all you need to know.
Once, but missed the fireworks which you claim to have seen..
You are all talk my friend, nothing more..
Most Americans are ALL Talk ;D Of course Im not saying all ;D
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Really, Anteros and Moby, kremlin.ru allows one to read what was actually said, not western media biased interpretation of selected quotes. Then one can make ones own mind up. You should try a less blinkered approach and seek out facts instead of swerving and spreading propaganda as you do. You don't have to be silly; its something you choose to do.
I can see with my own eyes what happened. When I visited Crimea it was an autonomous and peaceful portion of the nation of Ukraine.
Since then Russian special forces showed up and Ukrainian language schools were shut, Tatars were murdered and discriminated against. business's were stolen from Ukrainians and given to Russian elites.
Then we saw the attempts to carry out the same scenario's in Kharkov and in Odessa. We saw tanks roll into Eastern Ukraine and we saw artillery fired from Russia into Ukraine during the siege and encirclement of Debaltsevo. We've seen 6,000 persons perish and over a Million displaced, to appease the greed and arrogance of the Putin regime. We saw a civilian aircraft blown out of the sky and many souls murdered in a heinous act by the 53rd Brigade out of Kursk.
And you want me to read some nightmarish Orwellian double-speak on the Kremlin website? No thanks. I trust the Kremlin less than I trust the Obama administration, which is less than zero. Have a nice day. tiphat
I'd get back to your Fox News if I were you. You might be missing some babbling about Russian aggression. Or the breaking news that Putin is poised in invade Idaho or something. Better yet, why not give Moby a call? You can make stuff up together and form a nifty trans-Atlantic propaganda tag team.
You mean to counter the Kremlin paid propaganda tag team of you Andy and Gypsy? Then there's also Rosco who suddenly went against the West rather suddenly. :coffeeread:
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I've already posted the truth. I have been to Ukraine. That's all you need to know.
Once, but missed the fireworks which you claim to have seen..
You are all talk my friend, nothing more..
The evidence is overwhelming, just from Bellingcat alone. There's so much more. There's the history of Putin lying about Crimea and then joking about it. Exactly who is it that you think you are fooling with this nonsense?
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Russia's Edge in Electronic Warfare Could 'Ground' US Air Force
http://russia-insider.com/en/how-russias-edge-electronic-warfare-could-ground-us-air-force/ri14085
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Russia's Edge in Electronic Warfare Could 'Ground' US Air Force
http://russia-insider.com/en/how-russias-edge-electronic-warfare-could-ground-us-air-force/ri14085
Keep dreaming. :-*
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The evidence is overwhelming, just from Bellingcat alone. There's so much more. There's the history of Putin lying about Crimea and then joking about it. Exactly who is it that you think you are fooling with this nonsense?
The Dutch secret service said bellincat is lying. Its also interesting to note that Bellincat was created just a few days before the MH17 shootdown and its leaders are on some 'interesting' payrolls.
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I'd get back to your Fox News if I were you. You might be missing some babbling about Russian aggression. Or the breaking news that Putin is poised in invade Idaho or something. Better yet, why not give Moby a call? You can make stuff up together and form a nifty trans-Atlantic propaganda tag team.
You mean to counter the Kremlin paid propaganda tag team of you Andy and Gypsy? Then there's also Rosco who suddenly went against the West rather suddenly. :coffeeread:
Did you notice a common denominator [common sense] in your list weaving through it like a golden strand?
Or perhaps Rosco is now on the pay list of the Kremlin along with everyone else who corrects you? :Zzzzsleep:
Some of you Septics over the pond are so consumed by the 24/7 government propaganda your channels pump out (between the commercials for dentists and lawyers) that you look very foolish when you try to interact with normal people in an international venue such as this. Pull out your gun and shoot something to calm down (not a living something). Go nod along manically with the TV while Trump talks about the mythical wall, take your mind off your angst.
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The evidence is overwhelming, just from Bellingcat alone. There's so much more. There's the history of Putin lying about Crimea and then joking about it. Exactly who is it that you think you are fooling with this nonsense?
The Dutch secret service said bellincat is lying. Its also interesting to note that Bellincat was created just a few days before the MH17 shootdown and its leaders are on some 'interesting' payrolls.
bellingcat.com domain was regged 26-01-2014, seven months prior to MH17.
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You mean to counter the Kremlin paid propaganda tag team of you Andy and Gypsy? Then there's also Rosco who suddenly went against the West rather suddenly. :coffeeread:
I've been watching events rather closely and keep an open mind, rather than being told what to think. It's not about going against the west, its about the truth. I don't like voting in a western government on the basis of promise, only to get dragged into bloody wars we have no right to be a part of and get told its a peace mission. A few years down the line it all comes out in the wash...usually money or regime change - so we're back to money lining the pockets of the crooks, at our expense!
Some of the stuff happening out there is horrendous and to just sit by, assume we're the good guys and say nothing is wrong. We've all got the right to feel patriotic but not at the expense of being another sheep, getting used & abused by the government.
Putin's no saint either but he speaks a lot of sense. Try to be abstract for once in your life and put yourselves in the shoes of a Russian, a Syrian or an Afghan and look at the way the West behaves through their eyes. I don't particularly love our asian cousins but I can sympathise why they hate the West....or the US to be more specific.
Next time the US navy gets buzzed by a couple of Migs, 70 miles away from their naval base or when the US points hardware through the Federations letter box; try not to get all moist, patriotic and rabid at the thought of your adopted enemy and maybe consider if the US had a provocative role in it? There's no shame in questioning those in control and its not like the UK or the US, hasn't got form for this kinda stuff.
It doesn't mean we'll meet eye to eye on current affairs but we'll at least be discussing the truth.
-
You mean to counter the Kremlin paid propaganda tag team of you Andy and Gypsy? Then there's also Rosco who suddenly went against the West rather suddenly. :coffeeread:
I've been watching events rather closely and keep an open mind, rather than being told what to think. It's not about going against the west, its about the truth. I don't like voting in a western government on the basis of promise, only to get dragged into bloody wars we have no right to be a part of and get told its a peace mission. A few years down the line it all comes out in the wash...usually money or regime change - so we're back to money lining the pockets of the crooks, at our expense!
Some of the stuff happening out there is horrendous and to just sit by, assume we're the good guys and say nothing is wrong. We've all got the right to feel patriotic but not at the expense of being another sheep, getting used & abused by the government.
Putin's no saint either but he speaks a lot of sense. Try to be abstract for once in your life and put yourselves in the shoes of a Russian, a Syrian or an Afghan and look at the way the West behaves through their eyes. I don't particularly love our asian cousins but I can sympathise why they hate the West....or the US to be more specific.
Next time the US navy gets buzzed by a couple of Migs, 70 miles away from their naval base or when the US points hardware through the Federations letter box; try not to get all moist, patriotic and rabid at the thought of your adopted enemy and maybe consider if the US had a provocative role in it? There's no shame in questioning those in control and its not like the UK or the US, hasn't got form for this kinda stuff.
It doesn't mean we'll meet eye to eye on current affairs but we'll at least be discussing the truth.
Exactly.. tiphat
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Putin's no saint either but he speaks a lot of sense. Try to be abstract for once in your life and put yourselves in the shoes of a Russian, a Syrian or an Afghan and look at the way the West behaves through their eyes. I don't particularly love our asian cousins but I can sympathise why they hate the West....or the US to be more specific.
It's also a lot of sense in these words. :thumbsup: Vladimir Putin reacts as a leader of Russia, it would be strange to expect him upholding USA political interests.
From my point of view there exists pure logic in everything he does( it does not mean he is always right or doing good). Well, no doubt he is 100 % russian, and to understand russian way of thinking it is recommended to have (let me say) russian mind.
All these things that happened in Ukraine were considered to be a kind of awful betrayal, Maidan was the beginning of emotional war with Russia, they were standing and saying that russians must die, it was said in awfully derogatory words. We are all have our intelligence, I do not like when somebody begin manipulating with a very clear purpose. Two countries were friends too long, there were much in common. Suddenly something has turned upside down. (N.B. It's well known that there are western-minded people in Russia, but it's another story)
Psychologically...what a russian man or woman does with a betrayer (please read russian classical literature)...exactly the same ...A betrayer has no excuse, first. Second--one must does everything to protect oneself from unexpected behaviour of the betrayer.
As far as USA is concerned nobody in Russia I'm sure think really that USA is an enemy, absolutely not.
Politicians play their games, that is all. People are tired of that. A normal human being wants peace and stable planet.
IMHO.
-
You mean to counter the Kremlin paid propaganda tag team of you Andy and Gypsy? Then there's also Rosco who suddenly went against the West rather suddenly. :coffeeread:
I've been watching events rather closely and keep an open mind, rather than being told what to think. It's not about going against the west, its about the truth. I don't like voting in a western government on the basis of promise, only to get dragged into bloody wars we have no right to be a part of and get told its a peace mission. A few years down the line it all comes out in the wash...usually money or regime change - so we're back to money lining the pockets of the crooks, at our expense!
Some of the stuff happening out there is horrendous and to just sit by, assume we're the good guys and say nothing is wrong. We've all got the right to feel patriotic but not at the expense of being another sheep, getting used & abused by the government.
Putin's no saint either but he speaks a lot of sense. Try to be abstract for once in your life and put yourselves in the shoes of a Russian, a Syrian or an Afghan and look at the way the West behaves through their eyes. I don't particularly love our asian cousins but I can sympathise why they hate the West....or the US to be more specific.
Next time the US navy gets buzzed by a couple of Migs, 70 miles away from their naval base or when the US points hardware through the Federations letter box; try not to get all moist, patriotic and rabid at the thought of your adopted enemy and maybe consider if the US had a provocative role in it? There's no shame in questioning those in control and its not like the UK or the US, hasn't got form for this kinda stuff.
It doesn't mean we'll meet eye to eye on current affairs but we'll at least be discussing the truth.
A decent post but you're missing making any comments about what Putin did to Ukraine and what you wrote is a very artful dodge. Essentially what you've done here is attempt to give moral equivalence when it's not possible. The USA and our allies declared war against Iraq and it was no big secret.
Putin and company lying to the World about what they did in Crimea and then later smirking and joking about it; classic. His hybrid war against E. Ukraine has essentially bankrupted the entire nation of Ukraine, and that's what he wanted, since he could not force the Ukrainian people to embrace his latest offer. Yet he and the Russian government continue to deny the very obvious, and the usual suspects here repeat the Russian propaganda which is unrelenting.
It's no secret that myself and many other Americans with 20/20 hindsight were very disappointed in George Bush Jr. and his war in Iraq. Because Americans really do have a free press, contrary to the usual propaganda emanating from the usual suspect, Americans can actively criticize their government and not lose high-paying jobs.
Journalists in the USA and the West in general can question the status quo, without fear of being beaten up, put in a coma, or just killed gangland style. Contrast that with Putin's Russia where he controls 99.99% of the media, and everybody knows if the push too hard on sensitive subjects, they're in for big trouble.
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I'd get back to your Fox News if I were you. You might be missing some babbling about Russian aggression. Or the breaking news that Putin is poised in invade Idaho or something. Better yet, why not give Moby a call? You can make stuff up together and form a nifty trans-Atlantic propaganda tag team.
You mean to counter the Kremlin paid propaganda tag team of you Andy and Gypsy? Then there's also Rosco who suddenly went against the West rather suddenly. :coffeeread:
Fake inserted quote removed.
FTFY and I agree. :laugh:
Your attempt to declare US broadcasting as 24/7 propaganda is hilarious, considering that our Journalists are free to do their jobs without being beaten-up, put in a coma, or killed gangland style.
More importantly we actually do have very different takes on the same subjects from channel to channel, as well as many independent sources. Sure there is a left-wing PC slant to much of it, that much we know. We also know we can change the channel or find other sources without too much trouble.
Mr. Putin controls 99.99% of the media in Russia and every journalist with a modicum of common sense knows that they better tow the official line, or suffer very serious consequences.
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The evidence is overwhelming, just from Bellingcat alone. There's so much more. There's the history of Putin lying about Crimea and then joking about it. Exactly who is it that you think you are fooling with this nonsense?
The Dutch secret service said bellincat is lying. Its also interesting to note that Bellincat was created just a few days before the MH17 shootdown and its leaders are on some 'interesting' payrolls.
bellingcat.com domain was regged 26-01-2014, seven months prior to MH17.
Facts are so inconvenient when they don't suit a twisted convoluted World view. :)
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As far as USA is concerned nobody in Russia I'm sure think really that USA is an enemy, absolutely not.
Politicians play their games, that is all. People are tired of that. A normal human being wants peace and stable planet.
IMHO.
:thumbsup:
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Putin's no saint either but he speaks a lot of sense. Try to be abstract for once in your life and put yourselves in the shoes of a Russian, a Syrian or an Afghan and look at the way the West behaves through their eyes. I don't particularly love our asian cousins but I can sympathise why they hate the West....or the US to be more specific.
It's also a lot of sense in these words. :thumbsup: Vladimir Putin reacts as a leader of Russia, it would be strange to expect him upholding USA political interests.
From my point of view there exists pure logic in everything he does( it does not mean he is always right or doing good). Well, no doubt he is 100 % russian, and to understand russian way of thinking it is recommended to have (let me say) russian mind.
All these things that happened in Ukraine were considered to be a kind of awful betrayal, Maidan was the beginning of emotional war with Russia, they were standing and saying that russians must die, it was said in awfully derogatory words. We are all have our intelligence, I do not like when somebody begin manipulating with a very clear purpose. Two countries were friends too long, there were much in common. Suddenly something has turned upside down. (N.B. It's well known that there are western-minded people in Russia, but it's another story)
Psychologically...what a russian man or woman does with a betrayer (please read russian classical literature)...exactly the same ...A betrayer has no excuse, first. Second--one must does everything to protect oneself from unexpected behaviour of the betrayer.
As far as USA is concerned nobody in Russia I'm sure think really that USA is an enemy, absolutely not.
Politicians play their games, that is all. People are tired of that. A normal human being wants peace and stable planet.
IMHO.
Good post. :thumbsup:
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You mean to counter the Kremlin paid propaganda tag team of you Andy and Gypsy? Then there's also Rosco who suddenly went against the West rather suddenly. :coffeeread:
I've been watching events rather closely and keep an open mind, rather than being told what to think. It's not about going against the west, its about the truth. I don't like voting in a western government on the basis of promise, only to get dragged into bloody wars we have no right to be a part of and get told its a peace mission. A few years down the line it all comes out in the wash...usually money or regime change - so we're back to money lining the pockets of the crooks, at our expense!
Some of the stuff happening out there is horrendous and to just sit by, assume we're the good guys and say nothing is wrong. We've all got the right to feel patriotic but not at the expense of being another sheep, getting used & abused by the government.
Putin's no saint either but he speaks a lot of sense. Try to be abstract for once in your life and put yourselves in the shoes of a Russian, a Syrian or an Afghan and look at the way the West behaves through their eyes. I don't particularly love our asian cousins but I can sympathise why they hate the West....or the US to be more specific.
Next time the US navy gets buzzed by a couple of Migs, 70 miles away from their naval base or when the US points hardware through the Federations letter box; try not to get all moist, patriotic and rabid at the thought of your adopted enemy and maybe consider if the US had a provocative role in it? There's no shame in questioning those in control and its not like the UK or the US, hasn't got form for this kinda stuff.
It doesn't mean we'll meet eye to eye on current affairs but we'll at least be discussing the truth.
A decent post but you're missing making any comments about what Putin did to Ukraine and what you wrote is a very artful dodge. Essentially what you've done here is attempt to give moral equivalence when it's not possible. The USA and our allies declared war against Iraq and it was no big secret.
Putin and company lying to the World about what they did in Crimea and then later smirking and joking about it; classic. His hybrid war against E. Ukraine has essentially bankrupted the entire nation of Ukraine, and that's what he wanted, since he could not force the Ukrainian people to embrace his latest offer. Yet he and the Russian government continue to deny the very obvious, and the usual suspects here repeat the Russian propaganda which is unrelenting.
It's no secret that myself and many other Americans with 20/20 hindsight were very disappointed in George Bush Jr. and his war in Iraq. Because Americans really do have a free press, contrary to the usual propaganda emanating from the usual suspect, Americans can actively criticize their government and not lose high-paying jobs.
Journalists in the USA and the West in general can question the status quo, without fear of being beaten up, put in a coma, or just killed gangland style. Contrast that with Putin's Russia where he controls 99.99% of the media, and everybody knows if the push too hard on sensitive subjects, they're in for big trouble.
I hope you see the irony here Ant, when you chastise Putin for everything? If you had been born Russian, Putin is exactly the man you would want to lead your country. In fact, he's exactly the type of man you would want to run the US. As Czenny said before, when a country is portrayed by the west as the villain and attempts to shut them down at every turn, would you want a strong leader who will do what's necessary for your nation or someone who rolls over and lets Obama stroke his belly? This is a serious question btw and I suspect Americans don't like him because he wont dance to your beat.
IMO, the US should reach out to Russia and put their petty differences aside. The world would be a better place for it.......until the West decides to attack another middle eastern oil rich country....I suspect. This is where we come round full circle and see that whilst Putin is not innocent, the Wests/US tentacles can't help reaching out to change the world for its benefit.....much to Vlads annoyance.
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I'd get back to your Fox News if I were you. You might be missing some babbling about Russian aggression. Or the breaking news that Putin is poised in invade Idaho or something. Better yet, why not give Moby a call? You can make stuff up together and form a nifty trans-Atlantic propaganda tag team.
You mean to counter the Kremlin paid propaganda tag team of you Andy and Gypsy? Then there's also Rosco who suddenly went against the West rather suddenly. :coffeeread:
Fake inserted quote removed.
FTFY and I agree. :laugh:
Your attempt to declare US broadcasting as 24/7 propaganda is hilarious, considering that our Journalists are free to do their jobs without being beaten-up, put in a coma, or killed gangland style.
More importantly we actually do have very different takes on the same subjects from channel to channel, as well as many independent sources. Sure there is a left-wing PC slant to much of it, that much we know. We also know we can change the channel or find other sources without too much trouble.
Mr. Putin controls 99.99% of the media in Russia and every journalist with a modicum of common sense knows that they better tow the official line, or suffer very serious consequences.
That's a very naive, western stereotypical view towards Russian media Ant. Yes its not quite as free as our media appears to be but its not about goons walking round bashing folks heads in because they didn't write the government memo. It's happened but it aint the norm.
I'll see if I can find a link but I saw a video clip a few weeks ago where Putin at dinner was speaking to the man who heads a radio station in Moscow. Putin said that he was aware of the station from his KGB days and that it was a government funded station who appears to be talking ill of the country. He then goes on to publicly embarrass the guy and suggests he's talking rubbish and that he listens to what he has to say etc.
The moral of the story was, the guy didn't end up at the bottom of the Moskva river for having an alternative view point. The KGB knew all about this bloke years ago and it would have been stopped if what you wrote was true.
It's time to be abstract again and open that mind......
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Rosco, the reality is that there is more openness in Russian media than in, for example, the British media.
Debate is more open, at all levels and there's no shortage of platforms upon which those who object to government or state can make themselves heard.
Just as a point - can you imagine seeing our Prime Minister addressing senior media owners and managers as Putin did? Can you imagine them daring to do so? The relationship is just too incestuous for any senior politician to speak up.
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You mean to counter the Kremlin paid propaganda tag team of you Andy and Gypsy? Then there's also Rosco who suddenly went against the West rather suddenly. :coffeeread:
I've been watching events rather closely and keep an open mind, rather than being told what to think. It's not about going against the west, its about the truth. I don't like voting in a western government on the basis of promise, only to get dragged into bloody wars we have no right to be a part of and get told its a peace mission. A few years down the line it all comes out in the wash...usually money or regime change - so we're back to money lining the pockets of the crooks, at our expense!
Some of the stuff happening out there is horrendous and to just sit by, assume we're the good guys and say nothing is wrong. We've all got the right to feel patriotic but not at the expense of being another sheep, getting used & abused by the government.
Putin's no saint either but he speaks a lot of sense. Try to be abstract for once in your life and put yourselves in the shoes of a Russian, a Syrian or an Afghan and look at the way the West behaves through their eyes. I don't particularly love our asian cousins but I can sympathise why they hate the West....or the US to be more specific.
Next time the US navy gets buzzed by a couple of Migs, 70 miles away from their naval base or when the US points hardware through the Federations letter box; try not to get all moist, patriotic and rabid at the thought of your adopted enemy and maybe consider if the US had a provocative role in it? There's no shame in questioning those in control and its not like the UK or the US, hasn't got form for this kinda stuff.
It doesn't mean we'll meet eye to eye on current affairs but we'll at least be discussing the truth.
A decent post but you're missing making any comments about what Putin did to Ukraine and what you wrote is a very artful dodge. Essentially what you've done here is attempt to give moral equivalence when it's not possible. The USA and our allies declared war against Iraq and it was no big secret.
Putin and company lying to the World about what they did in Crimea and then later smirking and joking about it; classic. His hybrid war against E. Ukraine has essentially bankrupted the entire nation of Ukraine, and that's what he wanted, since he could not force the Ukrainian people to embrace his latest offer. Yet he and the Russian government continue to deny the very obvious, and the usual suspects here repeat the Russian propaganda which is unrelenting.
It's no secret that myself and many other Americans with 20/20 hindsight were very disappointed in George Bush Jr. and his war in Iraq. Because Americans really do have a free press, contrary to the usual propaganda emanating from the usual suspect, Americans can actively criticize their government and not lose high-paying jobs.
Journalists in the USA and the West in general can question the status quo, without fear of being beaten up, put in a coma, or just killed gangland style. Contrast that with Putin's Russia where he controls 99.99% of the media, and everybody knows if the push too hard on sensitive subjects, they're in for big trouble.
I hope you see the irony here Ant, when you chastise Putin for everything? If you had been born Russian, Putin is exactly the man you would want to lead your country. In fact, he's exactly the type of man you would want to run the US. As Czenny said before, when a country is portrayed by the west as the villain and attempts to shut them down at every turn, would you want a strong leader who will do what's necessary for your nation or someone who rolls over and lets Obama stroke his belly? This is a serious question btw and I suspect Americans don't like him because he wont dance to your beat.
IMO, the US should reach out to Russia and put their petty differences aside. The world would be a better place for it.......until the West decides to attack another middle eastern oil rich country....I suspect. This is where we come round full circle and see that whilst Putin is not innocent, the Wests/US tentacles can't help reaching out to change the world for its benefit.....much to Vlads annoyance.
There's no irony. I don't fault Putin for being strong, I fault him for greed. He could have taken Crimea and left it at that, but he got greedy. Furthermore I fault him and Russia for their extremely dishonest and immoral "hybrid" war in Eastern Ukraine.
More importantly (at least to the Russian people) is that Putin has been bankrupting his own country and reversing all the progress which had been previously made.
Sure Russians are patriotic and it's correct if I had been born Russian I would likely be patriotic. If I ever woke up and crawled out of the cave, I would be very shocked at the reality of how the World really is.
https://philosophyzer.wordpress.com/2012/09/21/the-allegory-of-the-cave-by-plato-summary-and-meaning/
I'm not making these observations as a pro-American, they are neutral observations. I have made the same observations about Bush Jr. He wasted a Trillion dollars on a war in Iraq which should have been spent on building a wall between the USA and Mexico and building up our infrastructure.
You can say the USA has been in ME wars all day long. I would not dispute that. It's not the point, because I offer little justification for the actions of Bush Jr., Cheney and Rumsfeld.
I don't agree with your assessments of the media in Russia. Putin took his country in the wrong direction and Russia is going to pay the price for it. Winter is coming for the Russian economy.
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Rosco, the reality is that there is more openness in Russian media than in, for example, the British media.
Debate is more open, at all levels and there's no shortage of platforms upon which those who object to government or state can make themselves heard.
Just as a point - can you imagine seeing our Prime Minister addressing senior media owners and managers as Putin did? Can you imagine them daring to do so? The relationship is just too incestuous for any senior politician to speak up.
I listened to a speech of Putin three or so years ago on TV in zhytomyr, Special K was translating in it he chastised and other wise threatened various media, TV, and especially on line sources for reporting on Russia. Is this what you are speaking about Andrew?
If one looks for a number of independent media sources in Russia that are not under control of the Kremlin that report on social issues, political matters, or international matters you can not point to a single one. They are fully under control of the the gang of Putin. So what has changed from 40 years ago in this regard?
Please do not assume that I have a very high regard for Western journalists, there motives are rarely the truth and more often than not how to generate a story that will sell; $ or € or £ perhaps even ¥ being dandy.
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Rosco, the reality is that there is more openness in Russian media than in, for example, the British media.
Debate is more open, at all levels and there's no shortage of platforms upon which those who object to government or state can make themselves heard.
Just as a point - can you imagine seeing our Prime Minister addressing senior media owners and managers as Putin did? Can you imagine them daring to do so? The relationship is just too incestuous for any senior politician to speak up.
Could you imagine Russian media printing/posting a picture of Putin with his dick in a dead pig's gob and getting away with it, shopped or not?
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AvHdB, I think that you don't understand how the media works in either your country or in Russia.
If you go and look (ask a Russian speaker) you will find that there is plenty of criticism and negative comment about matters Russian from top to bottom.
The 'control' as you put it is not as you think it is, again, go ask a Russian person for assistance here because you are likely going on about matters that you simply can not see because you are illiterate in the language you need in order to be knowledgeable - all that you know is what you are told to know, it is very often, as you know, not the truth, not even close to it. This is a learning opportunity for you. Then go look at your media in the US and learn about concentration of ownership. Then take a look at access and how control of access controls the story that you hear, or maybe, read. Again a nice learning opportunity for you.
When you do the learning you will find that there is extensive discussion and criticism of political, social and economic matters in Russia. What you will likely NOT see, is much criticism of the head of state, that's hardly surprising given the esteem in which the incumbent is held.
By the way AvHdB, to help you along your way: what is the normal maximum ownership level for foreign broadcasters in the United States? (it is possible to have exceptions to this rule, for bonus points, how many times has that exception ever been made?)
In which country, Russia, or the United States has it recently been made legal for the government to broadcast propaganda?
In which country is 90% of ALL media controlled by just 6 companies? (More accurately that is now 5 companies)
Ste, one can not comment upon that which has not happened - however, given the esteem in which the Russian head of state is held, it is very unlikely that such a thing would happen.
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Rosco, the reality is that there is more openness in Russian media than in, for example, the British media.
Debate is more open, at all levels and there's no shortage of platforms upon which those who object to government or state can make themselves heard.
Just as a point - can you imagine seeing our Prime Minister addressing senior media owners and managers as Putin did? Can you imagine them daring to do so? The relationship is just too incestuous for any senior politician to speak up.
Could you imagine Russian media printing/posting a picture of Putin with his dick in a dead pig's gob and getting away with it, shopped or not?
While doing a search, I did come across this one!
(http://mtdata.ru/u23/photoE771/20128214063-0/big.jpeg)
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Rosco, the reality is that there is more openness in Russian media than in, for example, the British media.
Debate is more open, at all levels and there's no shortage of platforms upon which those who object to government or state can make themselves heard.
Just as a point - can you imagine seeing our Prime Minister addressing senior media owners and managers as Putin did? Can you imagine them daring to do so? The relationship is just too incestuous for any senior politician to speak up.
Could you imagine Russian media printing/posting a picture of Putin with his dick in a dead pig's gob and getting away with it, shopped or not?
Ste, you should understand after all these years that Russian humour/satire or whatever has nothing to do with genitals, nor does its criticism.
Putin as a mad scientist/chickensuited however, I did find on russki media:
http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/9/126/657/126657008_2285933_df6b9511dacd65aeb710f.jpg
Or perhaps putin shopped to look like hitler:
https://v1.std3.ru/67/5e/1417690954-675e6d4da39d78a4f19e14b6216e653c.jpeg
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Rosco, the reality is that there is more openness in Russian media than in, for example, the British media.
Debate is more open, at all levels and there's no shortage of platforms upon which those who object to government or state can make themselves heard.
Just as a point - can you imagine seeing our Prime Minister addressing senior media owners and managers as Putin did? Can you imagine them daring to do so? The relationship is just too incestuous for any senior politician to speak up.
Could you imagine Russian media printing/posting a picture of Putin with his dick in a dead pig's gob and getting away with it, shopped or not?
Ste, you should understand after all these years that Russian humour/satire or whatever has nothing to do with genitals, nor does its criticism.
Putin as a mad scientist/chickensuited however, I did find on russki media:
http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/9/126/657/126657008_2285933_df6b9511dacd65aeb710f.jpg
Or perhaps putin shopped to look like hitler:
https://v1.std3.ru/67/5e/1417690954-675e6d4da39d78a4f19e14b6216e653c.jpeg
Isn't one of Putin's popular nicknames 'Dickhead'?
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New Su-25: Russia's 'Flying Tank' Set for a Lethal Upgrade
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/here-comes-new-su-25-russias-flying-tank-set-lethal-upgrade/ri14108
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It is hard to compete with that european failure!
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-f-35s-software-is-so-buggy-it-might-ground-the-whole-fleet
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US losing military edge to Russia, China: American experts
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/05/01/463464/Russia-China-US-military-DFZF-ICBM/
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It's kinda amazing how many advances the Russian military has made in the last few years.
On the other hand, Russia was not war mongering makes it difficult to know actually how many years they were achieving technology and military advancement.
I think uncle Sam and NATO, underestimated their nemesis.
World’s 1st para-drop air defense complex to protect Russian forces
https://www.rt.com/news/342072-fowler-airborne-air-defense/
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It's kinda amazing how many advances the Russian military has made in the last few years.
On the other hand, Russia was not war mongering makes it difficult to know actually how many years they were achieving technology and military advancement.
I think there's at least a couple of factors to consider here:
1) Much of the stuff we are now seeing sprang from Soviet times but was benched due to budget cuts. Now, as the are needed and Russia has the resources, these older projects are getting greenlit.
2) Russia understands that military development can drive consumer and business product development as well. For example, they have significant expertise in gas turbine engineering and the material science to back up the manufacture. CLICK HERE! (http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/50091) By developing, at state cost, turbine engines for military use the development costs for other, civilian, projects is subsidised and Russia has big plans in this area.
3) Russian military procurement works from a different paradigm to that of the US. The US, in general terms, works by producer led development. That's to say a producer, whether a directly commercial entity such as Lockheed, or a quasi commercial entity such as DARPA will say 'we can make this lovely toy'. They encourage (pay for) buy in from stakeholders including the military and production goes ahead. Procurement is seen as being a way to garner employment within states and thus research, design and production become political tools where military utility is not the top priority.
In Russia, in general terms, the driver of development is operational requirement 'we need something that does this, who can make it'. To a much lesser degree is research and production a pork barrel project and is thus more efficient and remains closer to the operational needs that drove the development in the first place.
Tomcat's link HERE! (https://www.rt.com/news/342072-fowler-airborne-air-defense/) is a good example of operations led development. A real need, in the field, drove technical development which, it turns out, is an adaptation of an existing platform, for mobile, parachute deployed, use. Thus, at low cost, and very rapidly the army got a system that, as far as I am aware, is unique in the world.
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I think there's at least a couple of factors to consider here:
1) Much of the stuff we are now seeing sprang from Soviet times but was benched due to budget cuts. Now, as the are needed and Russia has the resources, these older projects are getting greenlit.
'needed' ? For what - more away games ..or the 'threat' from NATO ..?
2) Russia understands that military development can drive consumer and business product development
That is true of any economy - but it doesn't take a crystal ball to figure out that [unpleasant ] history is repeating itself here..
3) Russian military procurement works from a different paradigm to that of the US. The US, in general terms, works by producer led development. That's to say a producer, whether a directly commercial entity such as Lockheed, or a quasi commercial entity such as DARPA will say 'we can make this lovely toy'. They encourage (pay for) buy in from stakeholders including the military and production goes ahead. Procurement is seen as being a way to garner employment within states and thus research, design and production become political tools where military utility is not the top priority.
In Russia, in general terms, the driver of development is operational requirement 'we need something that does this, who can make it'. To a much lesser degree is research and production a pork barrel project and is thus more efficient and remains closer to the operational needs that drove the development in the first place.
Andrewfi - your simplistic 'argument' forgets that the 'lovely toys' get funding based on decisions by career military. Now, while I'm sure you might point out the massive lobbying industry .. you don't seem to give much credit to the fact that the USA [also French / UK ] economies 'benefit ' from arms production ...
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If you over look the western propaganda, the article does tell of Russia's efforts to safety for their military personnel.
MOSCOW VICTORY DAY PARADE TIPS PUTIN'S MILITARY STRATEGY
http://www.newsweek.com/moscow-victory-day-parade-tips-putin-military-strategy-457077
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Moby, if you were brighter, and more credible you might reasonably be given the appellation 'captain Obvious' of course other economies benefit from arms sales. Did you really think we might not have noticed? Captain Daft!
The point clearly for those who bother to read, is that Russia had NOT been synergising commercial and military development. That was the point of the discussion between Shoigu and Putin.
I take it that your new job doesn't involve teaching English comprehension.
The rest of your comments are not even worth wasting more time on. You've had your 30 seconds for today.
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Vladimir Putin's all-female 'miniskirt army' display their strength in sexist military parade
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/vladimir-putins-female-miniskirt-army-7930070
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Vladimir Putin's all-female 'miniskirt army' display their strength in sexist military parade
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/vladimir-putins-female-miniskirt-army-7930070
It's not sexist but it is sexy. Good for Russia! Sadly the West will likely someday soon feature some cross-dressing weirdo's pretending to be soldiers, in future parades. :sick0012:
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I notice that the Mirror is happy to insult its readers (and Ant, as we see) by incorrectly describing the dress of these soldiers whilst publishing an image that shows the dishonesty of the 'reporter'.
Well done Daily Mirror, good to see that you are still lowering the bar for truth in journalism!
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The comments below are hilarious.
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Moby, if you were brighter, and more credible you might reasonably be given the appellation 'captain Obvious' of course other economies benefit from arms sales. Did you really think we might not have noticed? Captain Daft!
The point clearly for those who bother to read, is that Russia had NOT been synergising commercial and military development. That was the point of the discussion between Shoigu and Putin.
I take it that your new job doesn't involve teaching English comprehension.
The rest of your comments are not even worth wasting more time on. You've had your 30 seconds for today.
What 'job' ? Are you still working ?
So, having dealt with who is 'smarter'...
As for your lecture on how things get 'procured' here... I think you'll find that any method you might try and suggest happens is probably far removed from reality.
Funny how all these guys on here with tertiary educations have 'reading difficulties' ...yet they know what a bint means...
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The comments below are hilarious.
Absolutely and its nice to see the comments rising above the article.
Western media likes to portray this as sexist yet fails to acknowledge that slavic ladies enjoy wearing heels and skirts. Who's more ignorant?
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I loved the comment: The author needs to get outside more , best.
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"Russia's Military Strength Has No Match In The World". :ROFL: What World is that? Only in North Korea?
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-putin-autos-idUSKCN0Y328W
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"Russia's Military Strength Has No Match In The World". :ROFL: What World is that? Only in North Korea?
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-putin-autos-idUSKCN0Y328W
Sharp journalism there at Reuters. Delivering to the public the important news of the day. :coffeeread:
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"Russia's Military Strength Has No Match In The World". :ROFL: What World is that? Only in North Korea?
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-putin-autos-idUSKCN0Y328W
Ah so the door handle fell off. They both laughed and went on with their business.
Wow, such news. Its not like America has never had this happen, for instance Bill Gates showing all the press his new windows operating system, Or Europe, like Volvo displaying automatic-brakes when cars detect dangers... Or .... nah, you can find more examples on your own.
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"Russia's Military Strength Has No Match In The World". :ROFL: What World is that? Only in North Korea?
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-putin-autos-idUSKCN0Y328W
Ah so the door handle fell off. They both laughed and went on with their business.
Wow, such news. Its not like America has never had this happen, for instance Bill Gates showing all the press his new windows operating system, Or Europe, like Volvo displaying automatic-brakes when cars detect dangers... Or .... nah, you can find more examples on your own.
Although you've got a good point the article also mentioned the historically bad QC of Russian cars. Apparently Mr. Putin once tried to start a Lada at an auto show and it would not start after 5 tries, nor would the hood open.
So I agree they both laughed but ultimately it would be a more serious concern, if I were a Russian soldier.
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Russia Makes Sure War Will Be Hell for Its Enemies (Video)
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russia-makes-sure-war-will-be-hell-its-enemies-video/ri14375
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Hasn't been proven Russia had military in donbass, but yep Russia does have some military might.
Pentagon Is Spooked From What It Has Seen From Russia in Donbass
http://russia-insider.com/en/how-pentagon-preparing-tank-war-russia/ri14464
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"Russia's Military Strength Has No Match In The World". :ROFL: What World is that? Only in North Korea?
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-putin-autos-idUSKCN0Y328W
Ant, a door handle is trivial, compared to the neglect our air force is experiencing. Trump even mentioned this during his NRA speech.
OUTRAGEOUSEXCLUSIVE: Air Force Losing Pilots and Planes to Cuts, Scrounging for Spare Parts
http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/05/13/jennifer-griffin-reports-shocking-wear-and-tear-us-air-force-bases-share-email
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Putin deploys terrifying ‘all-seeing’ SUPER PLANE to dominate skies of future air warfare
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/putin-deploys-terrifying-all-seeing-8030655
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Putin deploys terrifying ‘all-seeing’ SUPER PLANE to dominate skies of future air warfare
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/putin-deploys-terrifying-all-seeing-8030655
This article is probably aimed at frightening the UK public into voting for staying in the EU.
The info contained in the article is not only "Very old hat", but factually incorrect..
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Putin deploys terrifying ‘all-seeing’ SUPER PLANE to dominate skies of future air warfare
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/putin-deploys-terrifying-all-seeing-8030655
This article is probably aimed at frightening the UK public into voting for staying in the EU.
The info contained in the article is not only "Very old hat", but factually incorrect..
That's what you get with western media.
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I'm not sure why anyone falls for the media spin from either side.
The current situation owes more to an engineered conflict that is affable to both sides to distract the peasants from the domestic economic turmoil. Creating political theatre and 'threats' allows governments to run loose economic policy and pour money into defence without taking a beating on the markets. The ISIS/AQ threat is better persecuted by special forces. To be able to dump billions into new defence projects and soak up blue collared workers into a standing military you need a credible threat. China doesn't work so re-igniting the cold-war provides a convenient dog and pony show to distract everyone from our politicians inability to extract us from the economic quagmire they put us in.
There isn't a single military expert who believes any conflict between NATO/Russia can ever be won by either side, regardless of the military technology employed since as soon as either side crosses a certain side then it would escalate to tactical nuclear options, followed by wholesale destruction from the ICBM arsenal. Putin knows exactly how much rope he has to play with, NATO isn't going to risk anything over places like Georgua or Ukraine, it is fairly doubtful they would do much over the Baltics. Putin would have to launch an invasion of Finland or Poland before you'd see any kind of response.
Really this is the stuff of Tom Clancy. Any war between major superpowers would plunge the entire global financial system into a collapse, global trade is too interwoven for anything over than skirmishes over non-relevant world economic players. It's well known that the UK could no longer even repeat the task force needed to defend the Falklands, but Argentina doesn't gain anything from trying to take them by force again.
Putin is never going to invade Ukraine, he has the capability and stated he could be in Kiev in 2 days if he wanted (which he could). But occupying another sovereign country would bankrupt Russia and likely lead to his own regime falling. He is a smart guy and knows real wars are now fought with media. Market manipulation and information warfare not armour and foot mobiles.
The military talk up a threat to get bigger budgets and new kit, the media toe the line because fear sells more print than Kim kardashians ass, and Putin gets to hold his political control by playing the archetype Russian bear. Behind the scenes they all discuss what their plans are and laugh at us little people.
Whatever is said publicly the west want to keep Putin in power. He is predictable and capable of holding the country together in a manageable state. They would rather have Putin than some irrational unknown hardliners trying to be a Putin without the smarts of knowing where the line is drawn. The west don't care about Russian domestic policy. What they care about is stability of regimes not spooking the markets and causing economic collapse. No doubt Putin told the us exactly what he was doing in Crimea - he's not so stupid as to antagonise a nuclear superpower. And no doubt the American administration agreed that the strategic importance of Sevastopol was sufficient grounds for them to protect their interests without interference knowing the potential instability Ukraine was facing.
Anyone who thinks what politicians say and do, or what the media report is in any way representative of what goes on behind closed doors at this level of geopolitics has clearly fallen for the body of lies entirely woven for their benefit.
Remember. War is good business. Most of our enemie like bin laden and saddam were created to serve economic purposes. Suddenly Putin is the bogeyman and Iran is our new BFF. When they want to give China an economic haircut they'll be next.
don"t fall for the rhetoric from either side.
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Mr. Black, there is a fair bit of truth in what you write. Welcome to RUA
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I'm not sure why anyone falls for the media spin from either side.
The current situation owes more to an engineered conflict that is affable to both sides to distract the peasants from the domestic economic turmoil. Creating political theatre and 'threats' allows governments to run loose economic policy and pour money into defence without taking a beating on the markets. The ISIS/AQ threat is better persecuted by special forces. To be able to dump billions into new defence projects and soak up blue collared workers into a standing military you need a credible threat. China doesn't work so re-igniting the cold-war provides a convenient dog and pony show to distract everyone from our politicians inability to extract us from the economic quagmire they put us in.
There isn't a single military expert who believes any conflict between NATO/Russia can ever be won by either side, regardless of the military technology employed since as soon as either side crosses a certain side then it would escalate to tactical nuclear options, followed by wholesale destruction from the ICBM arsenal. Putin knows exactly how much rope he has to play with, NATO isn't going to risk anything over places like Georgua or Ukraine, it is fairly doubtful they would do much over the Baltics. Putin would have to launch an invasion of Finland or Poland before you'd see any kind of response.
Really this is the stuff of Tom Clancy. Any war between major superpowers would plunge the entire global financial system into a collapse, global trade is too interwoven for anything over than skirmishes over non-relevant world economic players. It's well known that the UK could no longer even repeat the task force needed to defend the Falklands, but Argentina doesn't gain anything from trying to take them by force again.
Putin is never going to invade Ukraine, he has the capability and stated he could be in Kiev in 2 days if he wanted (which he could). But occupying another sovereign country would bankrupt Russia and likely lead to his own regime falling. He is a smart guy and knows real wars are now fought with media. Market manipulation and information warfare not armour and foot mobiles.
The military talk up a threat to get bigger budgets and new kit, the media toe the line because fear sells more print than Kim kardashians ass, and Putin gets to hold his political control by playing the archetype Russian bear. Behind the scenes they all discuss what their plans are and laugh at us little people.
Whatever is said publicly the west want to keep Putin in power. He is predictable and capable of holding the country together in a manageable state. They would rather have Putin than some irrational unknown hardliners trying to be a Putin without the smarts of knowing where the line is drawn. The west don't care about Russian domestic policy. What they care about is stability of regimes not spooking the markets and causing economic collapse. No doubt Putin told the us exactly what he was doing in Crimea - he's not so stupid as to antagonise a nuclear superpower. And no doubt the American administration agreed that the strategic importance of Sevastopol was sufficient grounds for them to protect their interests without interference knowing the potential instability Ukraine was facing.
Anyone who thinks what politicians say and do, or what the media report is in any way representative of what goes on behind closed doors at this level of geopolitics has clearly fallen for the body of lies entirely woven for their benefit.
Remember. War is good business. Most of our enemie like bin laden and saddam were created to serve economic purposes. Suddenly Putin is the bogeyman and Iran is our new BFF. When they want to give China an economic haircut they'll be next.
don"t fall for the rhetoric from either side.
Fancy a pint?
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Putin is never going to invade Ukraine
He already did - but many on here - you included - believe otherwise..
This statement 'ruins' what is otherwise an intriguing viewpoint.
Welcome to the forum
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Putin is never going to invade Ukraine
He already did - but many on here - you included - believe otherwise..
As you well know, if Russia had "invaded" Ukraine, within a short time span they would have been in Kiev and occupied it.
Unsubstantiated alleged support for separatists in the east, accepting 1m refugees from the US/EU driven regime change that occurred in Ukraine, providing 50 odd aid convoys and allowing Crimea to peacefully reunify with Russia according to the wishes of the people is not an invasion.
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As you well know, if Russia had "invaded" Ukraine, within a short time span they would have been in Kiev and occupied it.
First came Crimea - which was and is still part of Ukraine - de jure. Personnel going off base to surround and neutralise the host control IS an invasion.
Then came the 'away games' in E.Ukraine... Plenty of video evidence of non-locals..GRU from Leningradski Oblast in April'14
..Followed by the new front opened up in August '14 ..
No ne doubts Russia's military ability if it chose to fully invade - rather than pretend it is little green men or Russian 'volunteers' who borrow rocket launchers...
Spin on
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Putin is never going to invade Ukraine
He already did - but many on here - you included - believe otherwise..
As you well know, if Russia had "invaded" Ukraine, within a short time span they would have been in Kiev and occupied it.
Unsubstantiated alleged support for separatists in the east, accepting 1m refugees from the US/EU driven regime change that occurred in Ukraine, providing 50 odd aid convoys and allowing Crimea to peacefully reunify with Russia according to the wishes of the people is not an invasion.
Russia only denies that they invaded Eastern Ukraine because they botched it up so badly. They admitted that they invaded Crimea because it was a success. Russian pride at work again.
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Mr. Black, there is a fair bit of truth in what you write. Welcome to RUA
Yeah, welcome to the forum. Tell us again what you would do if forced to date UK women again? :ROFL:
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First came Crimea - which was and is still part of Ukraine
:ROFL:
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Putin is never going to invade Ukraine
He already did - but many on here - you included - believe otherwise..
As you well know, if Russia had "invaded" Ukraine, within a short time span they would have been in Kiev and occupied it.
Unsubstantiated alleged support for separatists in the east, accepting 1m refugees from the US/EU driven regime change that occurred in Ukraine, providing 50 odd aid convoys and allowing Crimea to peacefully reunify with Russia according to the wishes of the people is not an invasion.
Russia only denies that they invaded Eastern Ukraine because they botched it up so badly. They admitted that they invaded Crimea because it was a success. Russian pride at work again.
You and Moby are like a double act. You could be on stage. You could call yourselves The Propaganda Brothers.
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First came Crimea - which was and is still part of Ukraine
:ROFL:
At this point it would be less ridiculous to say that Crimea is still part of the Ottoman Empire. :laugh:
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Putin is never going to invade Ukraine
He already did - but many on here - you included - believe otherwise..
As you well know, if Russia had "invaded" Ukraine, within a short time span they would have been in Kiev and occupied it.
Unsubstantiated alleged support for separatists in the east, accepting 1m refugees from the US/EU driven regime change that occurred in Ukraine, providing 50 odd aid convoys and allowing Crimea to peacefully reunify with Russia according to the wishes of the people is not an invasion.
Russia only denies that they invaded Eastern Ukraine because they botched it up so badly. They admitted that they invaded Crimea because it was a success. Russian pride at work again.
You and Moby are like a double act. You could be on stage. You could call yourselves The Propaganda Brothers.
And you and Andrew could call yourselves "[derogatory term removed]". Oh wait, somebody already did. :chuckle:
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
My chill pill is I agree that Crimea is now part of Russia and it's not going back any time soon if ever. I see that as an olive branch but there is no reciprocation in regards to Eastern Ukraine, now is there?
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
My chill pill is I agree that Crimea is now part of Russia and it's not going back any time soon if ever. I see that as an olive branch but there is no reciprocation in regards to Eastern Ukraine, now is there?
Putin himself said multiple times , that this insurrection should end and Donbass would not be allowed to join russia.
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
My chill pill is I agree that Crimea is now part of Russia and it's not going back any time soon if ever. I see that as an olive branch but there is no reciprocation in regards to Eastern Ukraine, now is there?
Putin himself said multiple times , that this insurrection should end and Donbass would not be allowed to join russia.
He also claimed that he wasn't going to accept Crimea into Russia. Famous last words and all...the World wisely does not trust Mr. Putin and Russian citizens are paying the price.
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
My chill pill is I agree that Crimea is now part of Russia and it's not going back any time soon if ever. I see that as an olive branch but there is no reciprocation in regards to Eastern Ukraine, now is there?
When are you lot giving North America back to the natives? :coffeeread:
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
My chill pill is I agree that Crimea is now part of Russia and it's not going back any time soon if ever. I see that as an olive branch but there is no reciprocation in regards to Eastern Ukraine, now is there?
When are you lot giving North America back to the natives? :coffeeread:
There's a far better chance that Russia will be giving much of the Far East back to China. :coffeeread:
After all they are the ones who opened the Pandora's box of disputed territory.
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
My chill pill is I agree that Crimea is now part of Russia and it's not going back any time soon if ever. I see that as an olive branch but there is no reciprocation in regards to Eastern Ukraine, now is there?
When are you lot giving North America back to the natives? :coffeeread:
Or California/New Mexico/ 1/2 of Texas back to Mexico,
Or even Cuba back to the Cubans..
AND Ant gobs off about Crimea...
He's just a joke...
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He also claimed that he wasn't going to accept Crimea into Russia. Famous last words and all...the World wisely does not trust Mr. Putin and Russian citizens are paying the price.
So post the proof to that.....
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
My chill pill is I agree that Crimea is now part of Russia and it's not going back any time soon if ever. I see that as an olive branch but there is no reciprocation in regards to Eastern Ukraine, now is there?
When are you lot giving North America back to the natives? :coffeeread:
There's a far better chance that Russia will be giving much of the Far East back to China. :coffeeread:
After all they are the ones who opened the Pandora's box of disputed territory.
What part of the far east are you gobbing off about now...??
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
My chill pill is I agree that Crimea is now part of Russia and it's not going back any time soon if ever. I see that as an olive branch but there is no reciprocation in regards to Eastern Ukraine, now is there?
When are you lot giving North America back to the natives? :coffeeread:
There's a far better chance that Russia will be giving much of the Far East back to China. :coffeeread:
After all they are the ones who opened the Pandora's box of disputed territory.
Maybe you also wish to consider giving Alaska back to Russia...
Now that would be something, S400's right on your doorstep...
Doesn't that remind you of another situation??
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Maybe you also wish to consider giving Alaska back to Russia...
Now that would be something, S400's right on your doorstep...
Doesn't that remind you of another situation??
Or New York back to the Netherlands .... :innocent:
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
My chill pill is I agree that Crimea is now part of Russia and it's not going back any time soon if ever. I see that as an olive branch but there is no reciprocation in regards to Eastern Ukraine, now is there?
When are you lot giving North America back to the natives? :coffeeread:
Or California/New Mexico/ 1/2 of Texas back to Mexico,
Or even Cuba back to the Cubans..
AND Anteros gobs off about Crimea...
Gypo writes words straight out of the Russian propaganda playbook...talk about a joke.
You, trying to compare the 19th Century World to the World today -- classic and foolish. WWII was fought and blood was spilled, so that no nation could re-write borders again, in the 20th Century or later.
But nice try, bud. Considering that your patrons are those who got bit in the Arse with their attempt to make a deal with Hitler all those years ago...ah ha. >:(
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
My chill pill is I agree that Crimea is now part of Russia and it's not going back any time soon if ever. I see that as an olive branch but there is no reciprocation in regards to Eastern Ukraine, now is there?
When are you lot giving North America back to the natives? :coffeeread:
There's a far better chance that Russia will be giving much of the Far East back to China. :coffeeread:
After all they are the ones who opened the Pandora's box of disputed territory.
Maybe you also wish to consider giving Alaska back to Russia...
Now that would be something, S400's right on your doorstep...
Doesn't that remind you of another situation??
Maybe your "dear leader" Putin should try to take it back? Good luck with that.
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Maybe you also wish to consider giving Alaska back to Russia...
Now that would be something, S400's right on your doorstep...
Doesn't that remind you of another situation??
Or New York back to the Netherlands .... :innocent:
The whole thing about this is, that the Americans never actually ha their own land, they stole someone else's, and then they sit back and criticize everyone who does anything legally/illegally similar..
There is a name for people like that,.... but cannot remember it..... yes I can, its thieves...
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
My chill pill is I agree that Crimea is now part of Russia and it's not going back any time soon if ever. I see that as an olive branch but there is no reciprocation in regards to Eastern Ukraine, now is there?
When are you lot giving North America back to the natives? :coffeeread:
There's a far better chance that Russia will be giving much of the Far East back to China. :coffeeread:
After all they are the ones who opened the Pandora's box of disputed territory.
Maybe you also wish to consider giving Alaska back to Russia...
Now that would be something, S400's right on your doorstep...
Doesn't that remind you of another situation??
Maybe your "dear leader" Putin should try to take it back? Good luck with that.
If it was the desired course of action, then It would be done.....
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You, trying to compare the 19th Century World to the World today -- classic and foolish. WWII was fought and blood was spilled, so that no nation could re-write borders again, in the 20th Century or later.
But what if that nations leadership fails so badly, more than 80% of a region wants 'out' of that country.
I think that provision was not foreseen back then.
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
My chill pill is I agree that Crimea is now part of Russia and it's not going back any time soon if ever. I see that as an olive branch but there is no reciprocation in regards to Eastern Ukraine, now is there?
When are you lot giving North America back to the natives? :coffeeread:
There's a far better chance that Russia will be giving much of the Far East back to China. :coffeeread:
After all they are the ones who opened the Pandora's box of disputed territory.
Maybe you also wish to consider giving Alaska back to Russia...
Now that would be something, S400's right on your doorstep...
Doesn't that remind you of another situation??
Maybe your "dear leader" Putin should try to take it back? Good luck with that.
If it was the desired course of action, then It would be done.....
Wow! You truly are D E L U D E D if you believe it was even remotely possible. :ROFL:
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You, trying to compare the 19th Century World to the World today -- classic and foolish. WWII was fought and blood was spilled, so that no nation could re-write borders again, in the 20th Century or later.
But what if that nations leadership fails so badly, more than 80% of a region wants 'out' of that country.
I think that provision was not foreseen back then.
Because the situation was/is so complicated, because the World desires peace, and because those who are left there want to be Russian, the World offered an olive branch. Nobody accepted....
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
My chill pill is I agree that Crimea is now part of Russia and it's not going back any time soon if ever. I see that as an olive branch but there is no reciprocation in regards to Eastern Ukraine, now is there?
When are you lot giving North America back to the natives? :coffeeread:
Or California/New Mexico/ 1/2 of Texas back to Mexico,
Or even Cuba back to the Cubans..
AND Anteros gobs off about Crimea...
Gypo writes words straight out of the Russian propaganda playbook...talk about a joke.
You, trying to compare the 19th Century World to the World today -- classic and foolish. WWII was fought and blood was spilled, so that no nation could re-write borders again, in the 20th Century or later.
But nice try, bud. Considering that your patrons are those who got bit in the Arse with their attempt to make a deal with Hitler all those years ago...ah ha. >:(
No Ant, you are not correct, this is and always has been my view..
I can compare what the US has done over many years in the past, in many countries in the world, its been the biggest bully ever known, its caused more wars and killed more people than any other nation, and today, they just sit back and smile and state that what has happened in the past remains in the past, and because we are the US of :censored: ing A, we can do what we want to anyone.... NO SHIT...
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You, trying to compare the 19th Century World to the World today -- classic and foolish. WWII was fought and blood was spilled, so that no nation could re-write borders again, in the 20th Century or later.
But what if that nations leadership fails so badly, more than 80% of a region wants 'out' of that country.
I think that provision was not foreseen back then.
Because the situation was/is so complicated, because the World desires peace, and because those who are left there want to be Russian, the World offered an olive branch. Nobody accepted....
Ha ha ha, you are so smooth man...
The world want peace, but the uS wants to be the aggressor unless other nations bow to them...
Well pal, I don't bow to anyone....specially not to a yank..
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
My chill pill is I agree that Crimea is now part of Russia and it's not going back any time soon if ever. I see that as an olive branch but there is no reciprocation in regards to Eastern Ukraine, now is there?
When are you lot giving North America back to the natives? :coffeeread:
There's a far better chance that Russia will be giving much of the Far East back to China. :coffeeread:
After all they are the ones who opened the Pandora's box of disputed territory.
Maybe you also wish to consider giving Alaska back to Russia...
Now that would be something, S400's right on your doorstep...
Doesn't that remind you of another situation??
Maybe your "dear leader" Putin should try to take it back? Good luck with that.
If it was the desired course of action, then It would be done.....
Wow! You truly are D E L U D E D if you believe it was even remotely possible. :ROFL:
Who would stop them??
YOU... :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
My chill pill is I agree that Crimea is now part of Russia and it's not going back any time soon if ever. I see that as an olive branch but there is no reciprocation in regards to Eastern Ukraine, now is there?
When are you lot giving North America back to the natives? :coffeeread:
There's a far better chance that Russia will be giving much of the Far East back to China. :coffeeread:
After all they are the ones who opened the Pandora's box of disputed territory.
Maybe you also wish to consider giving Alaska back to Russia...
Now that would be something, S400's right on your doorstep...
Doesn't that remind you of another situation??
Seawards Folly as it was know back than was a sale from Russia to America to fund there war with England over the Krim as I recall. In fact the border between Russia and America is some 3 kilometers ~ the America side is a bunch of Inuit fisherman and the Russian side a military base.
Back in the Reagan days a woman swam the distance, arrested by the Russians but on arrival in Moscow she was feted by Gorbachov.
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Ant leading his army of handstanding skateboarders?
A new dimension to 'you and who's army'?
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Lets take a chill pill this is not going anywhere productive.
My chill pill is I agree that Crimea is now part of Russia and it's not going back any time soon if ever. I see that as an olive branch but there is no reciprocation in regards to Eastern Ukraine, now is there?
When are you lot giving North America back to the natives? :coffeeread:
There's a far better chance that Russia will be giving much of the Far East back to China. :coffeeread:
After all they are the ones who opened the Pandora's box of disputed territory.
Maybe you also wish to consider giving Alaska back to Russia...
Now that would be something, S400's right on your doorstep...
Doesn't that remind you of another situation??
Seawards Folly as it was know back than was a sale from Russia to America to fund there war with England over the Krim as I recall. In fact the border between Russia and America is some 3 kilometers ~ the America side is a bunch of Inuit fisherman and the Russian side a military base.
Back in the Reagan days a woman swam the distance, arrested by the Russians but on arrival in Moscow she was feted by Gorbachov.
Yup.
The Crimea has certainly seen a lot of "Action"
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the World desires peace, and because those who are left there want to be Russian, the World offered an olive branch. Nobody accepted....
You mean the world pissed on Russia and have been since the USSR fell in 1991.
I hardly call that an Olive branch.
Putin now is forcing a changing view of Russia. By force, not because the world wants to, thats why he is such an 'evil' man to the rest of the world.
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Some surprising information on the most powerful country on the planet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839
Ant - are you still laughing at Russia?
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Some surprising information on the most powerful country on the planet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839
Ant - are you still laughing at Russia?
Are these weapon systems broke?
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Some surprising information on the most powerful country on the planet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839
Ant - are you still laughing at Russia?
Are these weapon systems broke?
Considering that floppy disks aren't manufactored anymore, they will break down quite unexpectedly without repair sometime in the future.
Each that that passes, this is a ticking time bomb.
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Some surprising information on the most powerful country on the planet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839
Ant - are you still laughing at Russia?
Are these weapon systems broke?
Considering that floppy disks aren't manufactored anymore, they will break down quite unexpectedly without repair sometime in the future.
Each that that passes, this is a ticking time bomb.
Most military systems are out of date before entering service.
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Some surprising information on the most powerful country on the planet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839
Ant - are you still laughing at Russia?
Are these weapon systems broke?
Considering that floppy disks aren't manufactored anymore, they will break down quite unexpectedly without repair sometime in the future.
Each that that passes, this is a ticking time bomb.
Most military systems are out of date before entering service.
Outdated ok, but there is only 1 site still selling floppies, but only 3,5" and 5.25" , the 8" version the military uses are already gone.
But once this site runs dry, there will be no new ones, as manufactorers have stopped already.
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My point is, you don't expect this from a country using ufo technology and planes capable of flying 3600mph undetected with bombs strong enough to blow up Mars.
I thought only tin pot countries like Russia would be doing this stuff.
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My point is, you don't expect this from a country using ufo technology and planes capable of flying 3600mph undetected with bombs strong enough to blow up Mars.
I thought only tin pot countries like Russia would be doing this stuff.
Oddly enough, Russian technology is likely to be more advanced than the US for simple economic reasons. ;)
Because the Russians had fallen behind due to the near dissolution of the RF 16 years ago all their tech was frozen at the kind of level that the US had at the time (including 8" floppies). Now that they have money and are modernising they will tend to skip generations. We see the same thing with other forms of technology elsewhere. The US mobile networks, for example, are, well, not the most advanced in the world. That's because they had a huge investment in landline phone tech and infrastructure. Now, other places who develop do not bother with landline technology at all. They go straight to mobile and more than that, straight to the most advanced tech available.
You'll not be likely to see stuff like 8" floppies in Russian mil tech, not will you see 3.5" floppies either. The generations will have skipped. Same goes for metallurgy (which is why the US has problems making big rockets and buys them from Russia - the technology to make them does not exist in the US. BUT in turn the US may skip past Russia with their latest systems. (The lack of metallurgy skills will still remain though, that's now an infrastructure thing that US designers will have to work around when specifying components)
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Some surprising information on the most powerful country on the planet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839
Ant - are you still laughing at Russia?
Are these weapon systems broke?
Considering that floppy disks aren't manufactored anymore, they will break down quite unexpectedly without repair sometime in the future.
Each that that passes, this is a ticking time bomb.
Most military systems are out of date before entering service.
Outdated ok, but there is only 1 site still selling floppies, but only 3,5" and 5.25" , the 8" version the military uses are already gone.
But once this site runs dry, there will be no new ones, as manufactorers have stopped already.
when a supply of parts is destined to stop usually a life time supply is purchased. if that occurs a replacement solution is searched for. An excellent example is the B-52. Buildt in the 1950s and still in service.
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when a supply of parts is destined to stop usually a life time supply is purchased. if that occurs a replacement solution is searched for. An excellent example is the B-52. Buildt in the 1950s and still in service.
Maybe that works for complex machinery.
Floppies however, store information on Magnetic disks, those discs degrade over time. So even if you buy a zillion floppies today, they will become worthless over time , all at the same time.
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when a supply of parts is destined to stop usually a life time supply is purchased. if that occurs a replacement solution is searched for. An excellent example is the B-52. Buildt in the 1950s and still in service.
Maybe that works for complex machinery.
Floppies however, store information on Magnetic disks, those discs degrade over time. So even if you buy a zillion floppies today, they will become worthless over time , all at the same time.
I might also add that the minute man missiles used drum memory at least into the 1980s.
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Other side of the coin, when I worked on UK Nuclear sites in the 90's - never saw a floppy. All DEC, US company, even then DEC stuff could boot from a remote network CD drive, we had VMS clusters with nodes 70 miles apart, mixed architecture (VAX and ALPHA), even embedded solid state VMS (VAXELN), lovely stuff...
Sure the Russians didn't have that, in fact a Russian friend of mine (now a millionaire in UK - via SEO...) showed me a Soviet computer system, can't remember sod all about it - might tap him up for a look again...
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Other side of the coin, when I worked on UK Nuclear sites in the 90's - never saw a floppy. All DEC, US company, even then DEC stuff could boot from a remote network CD drive, we had VMS clusters with nodes 70 miles apart, mixed architecture (VAX and ALPHA), even embedded solid state VMS (VAXELN), lovely stuff...
Sure the Russians didn't have that, in fact a Russian friend of mine (now a millionaire in UK - via SEO...) showed me a Soviet computer system, can't remember sod all about it - might tap him up for a look again...
The Soviets actively copied the earliest Apples computers and managed some interesting upgrades.
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Russian Top Secret Hypersonic Glider Can Penetrate Any Missile
Defense.
http://m.sputniknews.com/politics/20160611/1041185729/russia-hypersonic-glider.html
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There were all sorts of computers. Not just Apple copies. At that time, in the west, there were also many Apple 'clones' at the time, presaging the PC revolution a couple of years later. In Estonia there was quite a computer revolution fuelled by little computers made locally and in Moldova. (Moldova was a centre of manufacture for advanced electronics)
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Russia's Yak-130 - NATO's 'Tiny Terror' (Video)
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russias-yak-130-natos-tiny-terror/ri15052
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There were all sorts of computers. Not just Apple copies. At that time, in the west, there were also many Apple 'clones' at the time, presaging the PC revolution a couple of years later. In Estonia there was quite a computer revolution fuelled by little computers made locally and in Moldova. (Moldova was a centre of manufacture for advanced electronics)
? ? ?
Not entirely sure what you are saying. Since I have used Apple products almost exclusively for some 30 plus years I have a wee bit of knowledge of the copies and 'clones' that were available of Apple products over this time period.
In what was West Germany there was one Apple liscensed copy for about 5 years. This was in the time period of 1985 to 1990. There were the Soviet copies of the Apple OS that in fact date to the earliest Apple computers to about 15 years ago. I remember using a generation ago and as I recall it was something called a Tasar ? Not 100% certain of the name though.
One most look back to how computers and there use has changed in 40 years. While I recognize there are many Apple detractors the company has managed to by design to change how we approach the use of computers in one generation.
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One most look back to how computers and there use has changed in 40 years. While I recognize there are many Apple detractors the company has managed to by design to change how we approach the use of computers in one generation.
If Apple hadn't come alone, we'd all still be using DOS or worse, Windows 95 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1L28nn-Rrg).
Point-and-Click really brought computing to the masses. At this point, though, Apple isn't a company any more; it's a religion.
B/B
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One most look back to how computers and there use has changed in 40 years. While I recognize there are many Apple detractors the company has managed to by design to change how we approach the use of computers in one generation.
If Apple hadn't come alone, we'd all still be using DOS or worse, Windows 95 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1L28nn-Rrg).
Point-and-Click really brought computing to the masses. At this point, though, Apple isn't a company any more; it's a religion.
B/B
The strength of Apple is/was how to use new technology and make it easy. The mouse, point and click were in fact creations of different companies that Apple used and adapted. The iPad/iPhone and the other items owes its creation to something called a Newton, way back when ties were to wide.
As for a religion, Scientology is based in California, what is one more?
As for 95 :dh:
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One most look back to how computers and there use has changed in 40 years. While I recognize there are many Apple detractors the company has managed to by design to change how we approach the use of computers in one generation.
If Apple hadn't come alone, we'd all still be using DOS or worse, Windows 95 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1L28nn-Rrg).
Point-and-Click really brought computing to the masses. At this point, though, Apple isn't a company any more; it's a religion.
B/B
The strength of Apple is/was how to use new technology and make it easy. The mouse, point and click were in fact creations of different companies that Apple used and adapted. The iPad/iPhone and the other items owes its creation to something called a Newton, way back when ties were to wide.
As for a religion, Scientology is based in California, what is one more?
As for 95 :dh:
Apple was an Innovator, with Jobs gone it seems that is gone with it.
The first mac-interface was bought from the Xerox Company, together with Commodore who used it in their computer "Amiga".
Microsoft stole it from Xerox, without paying royalties.
As for 95, it was a huge leap forward from Windows 3.11 and I liked it. Even more when they fixed some bad bugs and added desperate newly needed features (such as tcp/ip) in 98. 98 turned out to be shit though, and 98 Second edition fixed that and was cool again.
Windows XP was the first version though, that finally sent my Amiga to the attic, because it was workable for me.
I didn't love the PC until then. Still don't love windows, luckily I am a Unix guru :8)
Nowadays, we really really need to ditch BIOS and go for EFI. But companies and technies alike are holding it back because of its draconian DRM chipset in the first versions. Now those are optional and can be turned on/off by the owner.
Mark.
PS: I had a 17" macbook pro for a year or 5. My only apple product so far, and I didn't buy a new one when I got the call from my accountant I was in for an upgrade. I now run Centos Linux on my main laptop, that I use for daily work.
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AvHdB, I am a user of electricity, but I would not use that to make a claim of knowledge about how power stations work.
I'd counsel similar caution in respect of the knowledge that you think you have as a result of being a keyboard pecker for a few years. ;)
For example, you shared that you know nothing about the Apple clones, apart from these you got from the first result of your Google search. Here's some new knowledge for you: CLICK HERE! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_clone)
CLICK HERE! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apple_II_clones)
Far from exhaustive but you can add to your knowledge and use the links as a springboard.
And no, the iPad/iPhone do not have roots in the Newton, although recent, but I think not current, iterations of MacOs do (go ask an expert about that heritage!).
The iPhone and iPad are derived from the iPod which was a music player which owed much more to kit like the Creative MP3 players. The iPod owed nothing to the Newton which was a completely different technology set and use case. I still have my Newton but I don't use it these days; apart from occasionally to play a neat word game on it.
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Odd I saw one of the Apple clones being used a couple years ago in Ukraine. It was a standalone machine maintaining a database and was not connected to the internet. It surprised because it is so old and yet the actual machine was not 'bad' looking. Doing some research the machine was called an Agat and I think it also ran an earlier version of Prompt. The text being imported by a so-called floppy disk.
Here is a rather harsh review of the machine in English. Credit to the machine that it still runs and accomplishes what it is being used for.
http://archive.org/stream/byte-magazine-1984-11/1984_11_BYTE_09-12_New_Chips#page/n135/mode/2up
As for the other copy it was called a Lasar and was from China (Hong Kong).
As for the Newton I would not get rid of the machine. And in one sense Andrew is correct the more recent iPod's are closer to the iPad & iPhone but both hand writing and voice technology (very few were produced with this option) were incorporated in the Newton. The concept and how the Newton worked are related to how the current machines worked. The Newton was created at a time when Apple was moving from one business model to another.
Regarding Windows 95 I understand there are some who consider the Trabant wonderful.
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Regarding Windows 95 I understand there are some who consider the Trabant wonderful.
If all you have are horse-and-carriage, then a trabant would be wonderful progress indeed.
Back when 95 was released, what were the alternatives. (Go back to 1995, consider the OS's on the market).
Think about it.
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95 and shortly after 98 was what saw me move from the Macintosh I had been using since I had been selling them in 1984. It was, whatever zealots might say, a more useful tool, by that time than the concurrent iterations of the Macintosh system.
What some folks tend to do is compare their imperfect recollections of something they never used with their more perfect recollections of stuff they use today. By the time 95 came out, for most purposes, Windows was a more utile environment.
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Getting a little off topic?
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Getting a little off topic?
Yup, busy shaving eggs!
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Regarding Windows 95 I understand there are some who consider the Trabant wonderful.
If all you have are horse-and-carriage, then a trabant would be wonderful progress indeed.
Back when 95 was released, what were the alternatives. (Go back to 1995, consider the OS's on the market).
Think about it.
We indeed have moved far away from the central point of this thread, but lazy rivers flow in odd ways. I seem to remember a dedicated Apple thread on RUA.
Mark I am curious though I doubt it, but do you or any relatives only wear black socks?
As an aside I have a 'new' 17 inch lap top. There are those who will take the frame and rebuild the 17 inchers to more or less current standards. On my lap top I do not have the Retina display, unfortunately. :(
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US, Russia Clash Over Accounts of Near Collision at Sea
http://russia-insider.com/en/us-russia-clash-over-accounts-near-collision-sea/ri15276
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US, Russia Clash Over Accounts of Near Collision at Sea
http://russia-insider.com/en/us-russia-clash-over-accounts-near-collision-sea/ri15276
Important information lacking makes it impossible to ascertain the reality.
A shipping passing (over taking) is the burdened vessel. If you come from the starboard (right) you have right of way.
If this report is accurate than the American vessel was in fact burdened.
The incident involved the USS Gravely and the Russian Navy frigate Yaroslav Mudry, the Russian Defence Ministry said in a statement. The Gravely approached the Russian vessel at a distance of 60-70 meters (65-75 yards) from the port side and crossed in front of it, it said.
For what it is worth the distances indicated are mega. I suspect allot of tugs operate closer to one another.
My opinion tempest in a tea pot (OK) the Med. We are getting closer to the dog days.
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The incident involved the USS Gravely and the Russian Navy frigate Yaroslav Mudry, the Russian Defence Ministry said in a statement. The Gravely approached the Russian vessel at a distance of 60-70 meters (65-75 yards) from the port side and crossed in front of it, it said.
For what it is worth the distances indicated are mega. I suspect allot of tugs operate closer to one another.
I don't know, whats the stopping distance of these boats?
I think its counted even in minutes and not meters because they are redicolously long.
I once read an article about a mega-container ship that on full reverse took 45 minutes to stop.
Mark.
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US, Russia Clash Over Accounts of Near Collision at Sea
http://russia-insider.com/en/us-russia-clash-over-accounts-near-collision-sea/ri15276
Important information lacking makes it impossible to ascertain the reality.
A shipping passing (over taking) is the burdened vessel. If you come from the starboard (right) you have right of way.
If this report is accurate than the American vessel was in fact burdened.
The incident involved the USS Gravely and the Russian Navy frigate Yaroslav Mudry, the Russian Defence Ministry said in a statement. The Gravely approached the Russian vessel at a distance of 60-70 meters (65-75 yards) from the port side and crossed in front of it, it said.
For what it is worth the distances indicated are mega. I suspect allot of tugs operate closer to one another.
My opinion tempest in a tea pot (OK) the Med. We are getting closer to the dog days.
USS Gravely is an Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer is on the PORT side of the Russian frigate Yaroslav Mudry.
And therefore in the wrong..
Tugs are a completely different kettle of fish...
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US, Russia Clash Over Accounts of Near Collision at Sea
http://russia-insider.com/en/us-russia-clash-over-accounts-near-collision-sea/ri15276
Important information lacking makes it impossible to ascertain the reality.
A shipping passing (over taking) is the burdened vessel. If you come from the starboard (right) you have right of way.
If this report is accurate than the American vessel was in fact burdened.
The incident involved the USS Gravely and the Russian Navy frigate Yaroslav Mudry, the Russian Defence Ministry said in a statement. The Gravely approached the Russian vessel at a distance of 60-70 meters (65-75 yards) from the port side and crossed in front of it, it said.
For what it is worth the distances indicated are mega. I suspect allot of tugs operate closer to one another.
My opinion tempest in a tea pot (OK) the Med. We are getting closer to the dog days.
USS Gravely is an Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer is on the PORT side of the Russian frigate Yaroslav Mudry.
And therefore in the wrong..
Tugs are a completely different kettle of fish...
Hopefully we will not have a crossing situation at sea, you are the proverbial loose cannon.
You are correct about the Russian frigate being to port the simplified COLREGS is "if to starboard red appear, 'tis your duty to keep clear" The problem that burdens (places the blame) on the Russian vessel it is approaching from abaft of midship (meaning from behind) this vessel looses all rights.
I learned a very simple rules of the road manual, the most famous rule is red right returning. Having noted this the COLREGS change somewhere in the Med, perhaps Wiz or Moby know where, but I doubt it will change the rules that apply here.
For what it is worth it appears at about 20 or seconds the American vessel observes the actions and increases speed to avoid the potential of a collision, which is prudent. Watch the wake which is quite straight.
NB: If one is not used too marine terms some of the words will be foreign, sorry for this confusion.
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You are correct about the Russian frigate being to port the simplified COLREGS is "if to starboard red appear, 'tis your duty to keep clear" The problem that burdens (places the blame) on the Russian vessel it is approaching from abaft of midship (meaning from behind) this vessel looses all rights.
:thumbsup:
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I learned a very simple rules of the road manual, the most famous rule is red right returning. Having noted this the COLREGS change somewhere in the Med, perhaps Wiz or Moby know where, but I doubt it will change the rules that apply here.
Studied for my Yacht Masters - SOLAS V and COLREGS - I am unaware of such a deviation.
I can say that FSU yachties are much slacker when it comes to safety - wearing of harness/ buoyancy aids...
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Yep, another incident.
U.S. accuses Russian warship of aggressive maneuvers near U.S. navy ship
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0ZH64S
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AvHdB, I urge you to get your seeing eye dog on the case. Note the ship that is travelling at higher speed and note the one that changes course. That'll be the same vessel - guess which it is - and no, it is not filled with Russian speakers.
And you tell us that you are some kind of sailor - what's your vessel the MSY Gin Palace?
Look, we know that you know better than this, why try to bullshit us?
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Not necessarily built for military, but none the less an impressive ship.
Russia's Latest Nuclear-Powered Icebreaker Extends Arctic Dominance
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-s-latest-nuclear-powered-icebreaker-extends-arctic-dominance-n602381
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Not entirely sure why part of this thread is now on the Ukraine thread.
I don't know, whats the stopping distance of these boats?
I think its counted even in minutes and not meters because they are redicolously long.
I once read an article about a mega-container ship that on full reverse took 45 minutes to stop.
Mark.
Mark, A loaded container ship will indeed take a looooooooong time to stop if at full speed. Allot of mass or inertia.
Naval ships can stop faster a couple boat lengths if operating at a low speed. At flank speed trying to stop is more difficult, the propellers cavitate.
Important information lacking makes it impossible to ascertain the reality.
A shipping passing (over taking) is the burdened vessel. If you come from the starboard (right) you have right of way.
If this report is accurate than the American vessel was in fact burdened.
The incident involved the USS Gravely and the Russian Navy frigate Yaroslav Mudry, the Russian Defence Ministry said in a statement. The Gravely approached the Russian vessel at a distance of 60-70 meters (65-75 yards) from the port side and crossed in front of it, it said.
My opinion tempest in a tea pot (OK) the Med. We are getting closer to the dog days.
Note the ship that is travelling at higher speed and note the one that changes course. That'll be the same vessel - guess which it is - and no, it is not filled with Russian speakers.
Andrew it is reassuring to know your navy is in your bath tub.
What is amusing is to listen to the Russian babel, I hope this is not the bridge.
For what it is worth each of these vessels knew of the others presence from at least two different onboard systems, perhaps as much as 100 NM away. Most likely the skippers/captains were in communication with one another.
I think everyone is agreeing on the sides each vessel are on. Port and Starboard are not the issue here. To explain it in a different light the American ship is on the Port side of the Russian. The Russian ship is on the Starboard side of the American ship.
It is simple who is passing who.
The facts are it appears the Russian vessel is initially faster and heads toward the American vessel. The angle changes (increases). The American vessel than increases speeds and leaves her it in its wake. The American vessel has from the vantage point (film) a straight wake. Without seeing the courses from kilometers away (a so-called birds eye view) no one can say who is at fault. But it is clear the American vessel felt the situation was dangerous and increased speed from a slower speed.
I showed the video to a commercial captain with numerous tickets and he concurred, there is not enough information. My guess as was his the distances between the vessels were more like 200 meters, still close. Also we both realized there were no ensign's flying on the America ship (Bad Form). For the good order naval ships no longer communicate with each other using signal flags, though they still carry them. Looks good in harbour.
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Russian New Leader-Class Destroyer Will Be a Floating Fortress
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russian-new-leader-class-destroyer-boost-power-projection-capability/ri15416
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So, AvHdB, what we have is that you made a claim that you now admit, was not based in fact.
The opinion of your 'expert' was that, at worst, it was hard for him to tell.
On the other hand the people who were there were able to tell what was going on.
The obvious fact that they were aware of each other at great distance is not the point is it? You simply chucked that in to muddy the waters a little.
I do not use a bath, but I can read, I have eyes and, once again you have shown yourself to be making unsupported claims, this time you even admit it, thanks, that's in an improvement at least. Why do you do it?
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I do not use a bath
Keep up the weight reversal Mr Fi and I'm sure you'll be there soon enough :thumbsup:
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I do not use a bath
Keep up the weight reversal Mr Fi and I'm sure you'll be there soon enough :thumbsup:
Whhhhaaaattt?
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So, AvHdB, what we have is that you made a claim that you now admit, was not based in fact.
The opinion of your 'expert' was that, at worst, it was hard for him to tell.
On the other hand the people who were there were able to tell what was going on.
The obvious fact that they were aware of each other at great distance is not the point is it? You simply chucked that in to muddy the waters a little.
I do not use a bath, but I can read, I have eyes and, once again you have shown yourself to be making unsupported claims, this time you even admit it, thanks, that's in an improvement at least. Why do you do it?
STUPID STUPID & STUPID
Really Andrew you have no clue. I showed the video to other who supported what I see (without prompting) It is black and white and you are dumber than an one year old used zinc.
Please wash up, take out your crayons and have some fun.
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NATO, is gonna have to upgrade the size of it's troops, if they ever have to actually try to defend against Russia.
But if you look at the numbers, Russia has only increased its man power by a few hundred. If they were looking for confrontation, one would think they would have added more men.
Putin increases Russian Armed Forces’ organic strength to 1.885 million.
http://tass.ru/en/defense/887144
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New Russian Bomber to Be Able to Launch Nuclear Attacks From
Outer Space.
http://m.sputniknews.com/military/20160713/1042888473/russia-space-bomber-engine.html
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I think the answer can be found in the new clip Alexander Marshal "I - Russian." ;D :)
Я - русский.
Автор стихотворения Владимир Кобец.
Александр Маршал написал на этот стих песню.
https://www.stihi.ru/2015/09/13/887 (https://www.stihi.ru/2015/09/13/887)
Я - русский. Я тот самый "колорад".
Совдеповский отстой, рашист и вата.
Я тот, кто любит водку и Парад,
Я - отпрыск победившего солдата.
Я самый натуральнейший москаль,
Воспитанный на "мама мыла раму".
Я тот, кому детей донецких жаль,
Кто презирает Штаты и Обаму.
Не радуйтесь. Мы - не перевелись.
Нас много - не привыкших жрать от пуза.
Нам человечность прививала жизнь
В палатах умиравшего Союза.
Мы выжили, конечно же, не все.
Но выжившие - стали крепче стали.
Мы - русские - трёхкратно обрусев,
Из праха вашей совести восстали...
Для нас святое - Родина и мать,
Нас мир боится, потому, что знает:
Кому "умом Россию не понять",
Тому она привычно объясняет,
Что есть на свете, окромя жратвы,
порядочность, достоинство, и совесть.
И наше, русское "иду на вы" -
для вас, тупых, увы, плохая новость.
Не трогайте Россию, господа.
Запомните: нас бьют, а мы - мужаем.
Услышьте нас. А если нет, тогда
Нагрянет смерть за новым урожаем...
На вшивость нас не стОит проверять,
Американец, ты не есть мессия.
Подумай, брат: не Сирия, РОССИЯ!
Подумай, и не трогай нашу мать!!!
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Russian military ‘serious adversary’ after making ‘impressive’ progress – top NATO commander
https://www.rt.com/news/353933-nato-commander-russian-military/
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Russia eyes military icebreaker force to protect Arctic borders - report
https://www.rt.com/news/353899-russia-military-icebreakers-arctic/
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Looks like Russian subs will do more than cut communication cables.
‘NATO HAS NO CHANCE’ Russia’s secret super submarine fleet could be unstoppable in World War III scenario, expert warns
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1523368/russias-secret-super-submarine-fleet-could-be-unstoppable-in-world-war-iii-scenario-expert-warns-nato-vladimir-putin-uk-waters-moscow/
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Kalashnikov Has Upgraded the AK-74 to Be Even More Badass (Video)
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/kalashnikov-novelties-new-epoch-russian-weaponry/ri15960
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Kalashnikov Has Upgraded the AK-74 to Be Even More Badass (Video)
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/kalashnikov-novelties-new-epoch-russian-weaponry/ri15960
Actually the updates to the AK-74 have long been available on the customizing market. There are no basic changes to the rifle or it's operating mechanism. Indeed it is likely to be less accurate than the old version in burst mode because it is much lighter.
The AK-15 is not available yet. The balanced recoil system is based on the older AK-107/8. I have used a civilian (Saiga) version of the AK-108. There is virtually no recoil or barrel jump. The main problem with the the AK-107 was complexity and reliability. It was also expensive. This was why it was never widely adopted by the armed services, except for special operations. It remains to be seen whether the new AK-15 will meet these shortcomings.
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A bigger bang: Russian next gen air bombs to enter mass production, says developer
https://www.rt.com/news/355215-russian-next-gen-bomb/
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Maybe Russia has already perfected this technology, and is why it's so difficult to prove Russian military in Ukraine. :)
Russian military’s invisible ‘cloak’ to hide weapons & hardware from enemy radar
https://www.rt.com/news/355618-russia-military-invisible-cloak/
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The article most likely stated an incorrect date, that the expo ends August 11. September 11 I presume was the intended date.
Would seem Russia has turned military hardware into an economic windfall.
State-of-the-art weaponry presented at int’l military expo in Russia
https://www.rt.com/news/358455-russia-army2016-expo-weapons/
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Here's a Preview of Russia’s 5 Most Lethal Weapons in 2030
http://russia-insider.com/en/russias-5-most-lethal-weapons-war-2030/ri16420
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Here's a Preview of Russia’s 5 Most Lethal Weapons in 2030
http://russia-insider.com/en/russias-5-most-lethal-weapons-war-2030/ri16420
Some decade away concepts.
But I am confident both Russia and The United States have weapons (unfortunately) that are more than just lethal today.
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Quiz: What do you know about Russian military equipment?
http://rbth.com/defence/2016/10/04/quiz-what-do-you-know-about-russian-military-equipment_635603
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Quiz: What do you know about Russian military equipment?
http://rbth.com/defence/2016/10/04/quiz-what-do-you-know-about-russian-military-equipment_635603
100% me! tiphat tiphat
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Quiz: What do you know about Russian military equipment?
http://rbth.com/defence/2016/10/04/quiz-what-do-you-know-about-russian-military-equipment_635603
100% me! tiphat tiphat
Ditto... ;D
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This is pretty cool. A Russian Army truck that can be driven by remote control.
http://nesnfuel.com/2016/08/31/russias-latest-army-attack-vehicle-can-shoot-drive-via-remote-control/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=im
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Putin's new revolutionary 'super tank' leaves West totally outgunned
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/putins-new-revolutionary-super-tank-9207155
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Russia's version of a Terminator.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/killer-russian-robot-can-detect-9239940#ICID=sharebar_twitter
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Even if Russia spent less than a few other countries, you have to admit Russia seems to have spent wisely.
Russia drops out of world’s top 5 defense spenders for 1st time in 30 years
http://rbth.com/defence/2016/12/14/russia-drops-out-of-worlds-top-5-defense-spenders-for-1st-time-in-30-years_657428
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New photos reveal Russian advanced T-50 fighter plane test-flying.
https://www.rt.com/news/370694-t50-jet-flight-pictures/
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Even if Russia spent less than a few other countries, you have to admit Russia seems to have spent wisely.
Russia drops out of world’s top 5 defense spenders for 1st time in 30 years
http://rbth.com/defence/2016/12/14/russia-drops-out-of-worlds-top-5-defense-spenders-for-1st-time-in-30-years_657428
And we wonder which countries are the aggressors and which countries cause problems for the world community?
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Actually, 'we' wonder at folks believing Janes data being used to convey an inaccurate message...
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Actually, 'we' wonder at folks believing Janes data being used to convey an inaccurate message...
As much as those who wonder why an argumentative, politically naive man would chase tail from a country they loath. :nod:
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Putin: Russia's military is stronger than 'any potential aggressor'
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/12/22/putin-russias-military-is-stronger-than-any-potential-aggressor.html
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Video: 'Maple leaf' and other aerial stunts with the new Su-35S
http://rbth.com/defence/2017/02/16/video-maple-leaf-su-35s-703521
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http://abcnews.go.com/International/russian-spy-ship-30-miles-us-navy-base/story?id=45507034
It would not surprise me if this vessel were rammed in its present location.
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http://abcnews.go.com/International/russian-spy-ship-30-miles-us-navy-base/story?id=45507034
It would not surprise me if this vessel were rammed in its present location.
From the article:
Courtney labeled the presence of the Russian ship as an "unacceptable, aggressive action" and said it "underscores that the threats posed by a resurgent Russia are real.”
But when USA did it to the chinese, it was :
The Chinese warship had been shadowing the USNS Bowditch in the South China Sea.
“The UUV was lawfully conducting a military survey in the waters of the South China Sea,” a U.S. official told Reuters. “It’s a sovereign immune vessel, clearly marked in English not to be removed from the water – that it was U.S. property.”
Bunch of hypocrites.
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http://abcnews.go.com/International/russian-spy-ship-30-miles-us-navy-base/story?id=45507034
It would not surprise me if this vessel were rammed in its present location.
From the article:
Courtney labeled the presence of the Russian ship as an "unacceptable, aggressive action" and said it "underscores that the threats posed by a resurgent Russia are real.”
But when USA did it to the chinese, it was :
The Chinese warship had been shadowing the USNS Bowditch in the South China Sea.
“The UUV was lawfully conducting a military survey in the waters of the South China Sea,” a U.S. official told Reuters. “It’s a sovereign immune vessel, clearly marked in English not to be removed from the water – that it was U.S. property.”
Bunch of hypocrites.
+1
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http://abcnews.go.com/International/russian-spy-ship-30-miles-us-navy-base/story?id=45507034
It would not surprise me if this vessel were rammed in its present location.
From the article:
Courtney labeled the presence of the Russian ship as an "unacceptable, aggressive action" and said it "underscores that the threats posed by a resurgent Russia are real.”
But when USA did it to the chinese, it was :
The Chinese warship had been shadowing the USNS Bowditch in the South China Sea.
“The UUV was lawfully conducting a military survey in the waters of the South China Sea,” a U.S. official told Reuters. “It’s a sovereign immune vessel, clearly marked in English not to be removed from the water – that it was U.S. property.”
Bunch of hypocrites.
+1
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
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The Viktor Leonov just showed up on AIS (a vessel tracking system).
I think being in one of the busiest shipping channels or passages it might want to be 'seen' so to speak.
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http://abcnews.go.com/International/russian-spy-ship-30-miles-us-navy-base/story?id=45507034
It would not surprise me if this vessel were rammed in its present location.
From the article:
Courtney labeled the presence of the Russian ship as an "unacceptable, aggressive action" and said it "underscores that the threats posed by a resurgent Russia are real.”
But when USA did it to the chinese, it was :
The Chinese warship had been shadowing the USNS Bowditch in the South China Sea.
“The UUV was lawfully conducting a military survey in the waters of the South China Sea,” a U.S. official told Reuters. “It’s a sovereign immune vessel, clearly marked in English not to be removed from the water – that it was U.S. property.”
Bunch of hypocrites.
+1
+2
Av you just got sucked into more MSM propaganda. You should know better by now!
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http://abcnews.go.com/International/russian-spy-ship-30-miles-us-navy-base/story?id=45507034
It would not surprise me if this vessel were rammed in its present location.
From the article:
Courtney labeled the presence of the Russian ship as an "unacceptable, aggressive action" and said it "underscores that the threats posed by a resurgent Russia are real.”
But when USA did it to the chinese, it was :
The Chinese warship had been shadowing the USNS Bowditch in the South China Sea.
“The UUV was lawfully conducting a military survey in the waters of the South China Sea,” a U.S. official told Reuters. “It’s a sovereign immune vessel, clearly marked in English not to be removed from the water – that it was U.S. property.”
Bunch of hypocrites.
+1
+2
Av you just got sucked into more MSM propaganda. You should know better by now!
The Viktor Leonov is again off the 'radar' so to speak. I am confused about propaganda, American, China, Russia and even North Korea attempet to assemble and collect intelligence about each other. This is business as usual, not a problem for me
The only comment that I have the Russians are operating in a very busy shipping lane, and that is the reason for the potential of a collision at sea. Not using the AIS system is increasing the risk. Everyone knows they the Russians) are there so why increase the risk?
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We are having a serious problem in the US right now. This is fake news to make Trump look bad is all over the place. In news conference Trump did not have a problem with Russian ship. So who else in the government matters?
The vessel that China captured your writing about was not spying like the Russian ship. It was doing survey and was no where near China. It was even outside of the new claimed water nearly all of the South China sea which extends thousands of miles from China. Nothing similar about the two in instances.
Notice! No one is flying aircraft and buzzing the Russian ship like they are doing to our ships. Only a bunch of new media people complaining with made up stories. Most likely the official who thought it was acceptable was pushing a broom. The major news media creditability in the US is less than our congress. No body but you even reads this stuff any more.
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We are having a serious problem in the US right now. This is fake news to make Trump look bad is all over the place. In news conference Trump did not have a problem with Russian ship. So who else in the government matters?
The vessel that China captured your writing about was not spying like the Russian ship. It was doing survey and was no where near China. It was even outside of the new claimed water nearly all of the South China sea which extends thousands of miles from China. Nothing similar about the two in instances.
Notice! No one is flying aircraft and buzzing the Russian ship like they are doing to our ships. Only a bunch of new media people complaining with made up stories. Most likely the official who thought it was acceptable was pushing a broom. The major news media creditability in the US is less than our congress. No body but you even reads this stuff any more.
They were spying, thats another word for Surveying .... gathering intel/information.
As to where the south-china-sea is : https://www.google.nl/maps/@12.2747509,112.362474,3.75z
I can't take you seriously if you make those glaring errors.
-
We are having a serious problem in the US right now. This is fake news to make Trump look bad is all over the place. In news conference Trump did not have a problem with Russian ship. So who else in the government matters?
The vessel that China captured your writing about was not spying like the Russian ship. It was doing survey and was no where near China. It was even outside of the new claimed water nearly all of the South China sea which extends thousands of miles from China. Nothing similar about the two in instances.
Notice! No one is flying aircraft and buzzing the Russian ship like they are doing to our ships. Only a bunch of new media people complaining with made up stories. Most likely the official who thought it was acceptable was pushing a broom. The major news media creditability in the US is less than our congress. No body but you even reads this stuff any more.
They were spying, thats another word for Surveying .... gathering intel/information.
As to where the south-china-sea is : https://www.google.nl/maps/@12.2747509,112.362474,3.75z
I can't take you seriously if you make those glaring errors.
Where the ship is of little interest to most military officers and intelligence officials. The Russians and the Americans are going to gather information about each other. The ship A. Leonov is/was just outside the 12 mile exclusion zone and close to a torpedo firing range off of Newport, RI. Big deal. I sail through this range frequently.
So called fly by's at close range or buzzing are a different matter. The American navy knows the airplanes are unarmed but why taunt some one? If they were armed they would be scrap metal.
-
We are having a serious problem in the US right now. This is fake news to make Trump look bad is all over the place. In news conference Trump did not have a problem with Russian ship. So who else in the government matters?
The vessel that China captured your writing about was not spying like the Russian ship. It was doing survey and was no where near China. It was even outside of the new claimed water nearly all of the South China sea which extends thousands of miles from China. Nothing similar about the two in instances.
Notice! No one is flying aircraft and buzzing the Russian ship like they are doing to our ships. Only a bunch of new media people complaining with made up stories. Most likely the official who thought it was acceptable was pushing a broom. The major news media creditability in the US is less than our congress. No body but you even reads this stuff any more.
They were spying, thats another word for Surveying .... gathering intel/information.
As to where the south-china-sea is : https://www.google.nl/maps/@12.2747509,112.362474,3.75z
I can't take you seriously if you make those glaring errors.
They were measuring the water temperature and salt level so they could determining weather patters in the area of Japan. I guess if you want to call that spying you can.
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Texan77, what they were doing was mapping out underwater conditions to enable U.S military planners to better insert underwater craft and weaponry into China's coastal regions. Surface weather surveying is done from satellites, not from underwater vessels.
:'(
Some people are naturally credulous. I bet that you can be easily hypnotised. :)
-
We are having a serious problem in the US right now. This is fake news to make Trump look bad is all over the place. In news conference Trump did not have a problem with Russian ship. So who else in the government matters?
The vessel that China captured your writing about was not spying like the Russian ship. It was doing survey and was no where near China. It was even outside of the new claimed water nearly all of the South China sea which extends thousands of miles from China. Nothing similar about the two in instances.
Notice! No one is flying aircraft and buzzing the Russian ship like they are doing to our ships. Only a bunch of new media people complaining with made up stories. Most likely the official who thought it was acceptable was pushing a broom. The major news media creditability in the US is less than our congress. No body but you even reads this stuff any more.
They were spying, thats another word for Surveying .... gathering intel/information.
As to where the south-china-sea is : https://www.google.nl/maps/@12.2747509,112.362474,3.75z
I can't take you seriously if you make those glaring errors.
They were measuring the water temperature and salt level so they could determining weather patters in the area of Japan. I guess if you want to call that spying you can.
Japan..... right. Talk about countries that arent close to the South China sea
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Texan77, what they were doing was mapping out underwater conditions to enable U.S military planners to better insert underwater craft and weaponry into China's coastal regions. Surface weather surveying is done from satellites, not from underwater vessels.
:'(
Some people are naturally credulous. I bet that you can be easily hypnotised. :)
They were no where near the China coast. China returned the vessel and apologized for the seizure.
Have you heard of El Nino and la Nina. This is where satt and deep water temptress effect currents. Deep water rises and effect weather patterns. These changes is water currents effect weather for months to come. These are two of the largest effects but they are all around the world. This is just to long term predict long term weather by predicting future water currents. If you want to make that military you can.
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News story has map of just where this UUV was taken. Notice the only land in the map is the Philippians no where near China coast.
http://maritimeawarenessproject.org/2016/12/21/the-implications-of-chinas-seizure-of-a-u-s-navy-drone/
Deep water measurements of salt and temperatures determine where deep water currents will flow which has an effect on long term weather conditions. Like Usual Andrew is wrong again.
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the Philippians no where near China coast.
If you mean the Philippines, and are claiming it is "nowhere near" the Chinese coast, I suggest you look at a map. They are about 800 miles apart across open water and the Philippines is in the South China Sea. The Spratly Islands, also Chinese, are way closer at about 400 miles. In nautical terms, across open water, this is on the doorstep.
Whichever way you look at it, the US has no business there. The US is 7000 miles away. Anything they have there should be removed/escorted away/seized/shot down/whatever as any presence is hostile and uninvited. You people need to understand that your stuff can do what it wants near your coast, not China's. You saw the result - and lost said drone - when you forgot that.
The days of the US trampling over China and Russia are long gone. Your trespassing days elsewhere are likely numbered too. Much of this Neocon silliness will vanish under Trump.
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the Philippians no where near China coast.
If you mean the Philippines, and are claiming it is "nowhere near" the Chinese coast, I suggest you look at a map. They are about 800 miles apart across open water and the Philippines is in the South China Sea. The Spratly Islands, also Chinese, are way closer at about 400 miles. In nautical terms, across open water, this is on the doorstep.
Whichever way you look at it, the US has no business there. The US is 7000 miles away. Anything they have there should be removed/escorted away/seized/shot down/whatever as any presence is hostile and uninvited. You people need to understand that your stuff can do what it wants near your coast, not China's. You saw the result - and lost said drone - when you forgot that.
The days of the US trampling over China and Russia are long gone. Your trespassing days elsewhere are likely numbered too. Much of this Neocon silliness will vanish under Trump.
What about Russian ship 30 miles off our coast??? And then you say we are 800 miles from China. The Spratly Islands islands are nothing more than an airstrip 400 miles away that neighboring countries are also claiming. Maybe the US needs top claim 800 miles and shoot that Russian vessel out of the water that is 30 miles off our coast. Now that is close. What is the Russian vessel doing there?? Hint it is a spy vessel! Maybe we should do what China is doing with the Hawaiian islands and claim all the water between them and our coast. The water temperature and salt vessel is not spying. I am sure we have some spy vessels also but that is not one of them. If it was spying that should be ok in that location.
Manny whether you know it or not but Spying help prevent wars. This way there is not a miss understanding where some one troops and equipment is and someone over react. For many decades Russia have an agreement to let the other countries spy. WE have known spies in Moscow that Russia knows about and they have know spies in our country. We fly our spy planes over Russia and they fly there planes over us. This has been true all over NATO. They get permission to fly and it is usually granted. That problem lately they have flights that are not spy plane but war planes and some time move just close to our countries and other time actually fly into our air space without premission. It is much rarer that the US or Nato flies war planes into Russian space with out permission.
In About ten years Russia will be economic history if Putin does not get serious about something besides war. The silent revelation is happening all over the world not just the US. Even Ukraine is planning a massive solar farm.
Below is copied there is not a link for me to send or I would.
A "silent revolution" in the U.S. electricity market continues to go unnoticed. A new study shows that 39% of new electricity generated in the U.S. in 2016 came from solar panels.
Not only did that beat the 26% that came from wind and the 29% from natural gas...
But in absolute terms, the 14.6 gigawatts of electricity-producing solar panels installed in America last year was 95% higher than the same number in 2015.
14.6 gigawatts, by the way, is roughly the equivalent of 14 nuclear reactors.
So it's no wonder that the solar industry now employs more than a quarter of a million people, and accounts for 2% of all new jobs in the country.
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Oh Tex, you know the Russians are just measuring salt levels off the coast - what's all the fuss about?
In one post you tied yourself in knots. So according to you, if the Russians are spying then that's a good thing because it's helping to stop war - yea?
When the US behaves the way it does around the globe, you've got to accept that other sovereign countries will do what they must to keep you in check as best they can. The sad bit here is that poor you still believes that the US is always the good guy and everyone else the villian.
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Rosco, there's a difference. The Russian ship, in international waters, is clearly an intelligence gathering unit. They make no bones about it, no pretence of surveying for maritime purposes. Of course, they may not be doing much real intel work; I'd lay odds that a significant part of the mission is to troll the US government, military and sheeple.
The Americans pretend to be otherwise and moan when treated as that which they obviously are.
In one case there is no damage to credibility (in fact, just the opposite) and in the other case credibility is damaged such that the world laughs.
The Russian government and state have become masters of a new form of trolling, moving it away from the Internet and into diplomacy and global politics. One finds oneself saying stuff like 'good stroke', 'well played' and tipping an imaginary cap to the activities of the Russian diplomatic corps and, increasingly, the military.
I bet that Sergei Lavrov is a bugger on the Internet forums upon which he posts. :) Maria Zakharova is a hoot on her Facebook page.
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Oh Tex, you know the Russians are just measuring salt levels off the coast - what's all the fuss about?
In one post you tied yourself in knots. So according to you, if the Russians are spying then that's a good thing because it's helping to stop war - yea?
When the US behaves the way it does around the globe, you've got to accept that other sovereign countries will do what they must to keep you in check as best they can. The sad bit here is that poor you still believes that the US is always the good guy and everyone else the villian.
Rosco, there's a difference. The Russian ship, in international waters, is clearly an intelligence gathering unit. They make no bones about it, no pretence of surveying for maritime purposes. Of course, they may not be doing much real intel work; I'd lay odds that a significant part of the mission is to troll the US government, military and sheeple.
The Americans pretend to be otherwise and moan when treated as that which they obviously are.
In one case there is no damage to credibility (in fact, just the opposite) and in the other case credibility is damaged such that the world laughs.
The Russian government and state have become masters of a new form of trolling, moving it away from the Internet and into diplomacy and global politics. One finds oneself saying stuff like 'good stroke', 'well played' and tipping an imaginary cap to the activities of the Russian diplomatic corps and, increasingly, the military.
I bet that Sergei Lavrov is a bugger on the Internet forums upon which he posts. :) Maria Zakharova is a hoot on her Facebook page.
Tex,
Just my two cents both Andrew and Rosco are largely correct in there opinions. And yes Russia has moved to a far more sophisticated form of trolling. tiphat
As I noted up thread what is good for the goose is good for the gander ~ or in other words pay backs are bitches.
Long ago when Russia because of a combination of circumstances was flat on there back, America kicked them and now that Russia has both pride and some military power they are using this for the max gain that they can.
I still believe V. Putin is a top player and and he is intelligent enough to know his own limitations in the global chess board. I wish I could say the same about D. Trump
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Rosco, there's a difference. The Russian ship, in international waters, is clearly an intelligence gathering unit. They make no bones about it, no pretence of surveying for maritime purposes. Of course, they may not be doing much real intel work; I'd lay odds that a significant part of the mission is to troll the US government, military and sheeple.
The Americans pretend to be otherwise and moan when treated as that which they obviously are.
In one case there is no damage to credibility (in fact, just the opposite) and in the other case credibility is damaged such that the world laughs.
The Russian government and state have become masters of a new form of trolling, moving it away from the Internet and into diplomacy and global politics. One finds oneself saying stuff like 'good stroke', 'well played' and tipping an imaginary cap to the activities of the Russian diplomatic corps and, increasingly, the military.
I bet that Sergei Lavrov is a bugger on the Internet forums upon which he posts. :) Maria Zakharova is a hoot on her Facebook page.
It is very much trolling or tit for tat. If I were leading a nation and US warships routinely sailed in "international waters" just a few miles from my coastline, then I'd be well within my rights to do exactly the same to the US. Partly because you can but mainly to make a very obvious political point. There's a bit of psychological warfare going on and if the US flexes its military muscle as regularly as it does, it probably needs a bit of reminding that danger lies closer to home if they get too brave.
As it happens, we can see this playing out in front of us now but I'd expect the only people getting fired up about the Russian ship off the US coast, is the US media and Tex-like citizens. The US armed forces will no doubt be pretty relaxed about the situation, knowing full well they do the same to other nations all over the globe.
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Dudes!!! FIRST I do not care the Russian ship is there. The POINT is why does everyone else think it is ok for the Russians to do it not OK for the USA. Yes, we spy on Russia, They spy on us. This help a better understanding of what is going on in the other country. It helps to relieve the possibility of a nuclear mistake by the fact one could think the other is about to attack when in fact they are not.
They are making a big deal of this Russian spy ship because Trump is president. Before that the same ship has made this same trip for three years in a roll now and nobody said anything on the other two. I do not support us buzzing it or doing anything else to it. It is legal so it should be left alone. Now why is it so hard to see that Russia should have the same respect for us as we do for them.
This Russian ship is just off the New Port News which is our largest navel yard. This is home base to all eleven America aircraft carriers plus many other ships. Can you imagine if we were thirty mile off the Crimea. This ship most likely has very advance secrete electronics intelligent gathering equipment on board. That is what spy ships have and do. The Russians did not likely spend tens of millions of dollars building this ship to have it being a bobbling cork.
Andrew seems to think a Russian Spy Ship does not do anything but an USA spy ship is going to destroy the country is it spying on. Andrew, wake up!!! They are very much the same thing and they are doing very close to the same job. Do You really believe that the Russians are so technically backwards that they have less gear on their spy ships then we have on ours?
Trump is playing the same game Putin does. Remember when Putin said to a bunch of school children that they better not mess with a nuclear Russia. That was taken in the west as a threat of Nuclear war. Now Trump is saying, I will not say what I will do. Why is OK when Putin does it but not when the USA does it. The crap cuts both ways. No, I do not have any faith that Putin will not fire Nuclear weapons first. Now Russia has to not have any faith that the USA will not fire the first nuclear weapon. This is because this is where you can start to negotiate. If Russia wants assurances we will not fire first they need to give some.
I am so glade you Europeans think Russia is not a threat. If a nuclear war were to break out you in the UK would get likely get hit in under five minutes. Russia has moved nuclear weapons to that little strip of land near Poland. I bet you are the first target. Sleep well.
Trump has said he will forge out a better relationship with Russia if it is possible. Congress and the press keep accusing Trump of being a Russian puppet. It is making the process hard because these globalist do not give up easily. Still Trump seem to be determine to see what can be done.
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Tex you're a moron.
If our country plays it how the people want it to be played, we won't be the ones getting nuked. Feel free to act like Billy Big Bollocks all you want but I'll have nothing to do with your silly games. Understand that bit & you're already smarter now than you were 10 seconds ago.
We don't hate you boys, we just see the world for what it is. We share a common language but clearly not the same ideology - Putin ain't the bad guy as far as I'm concerned and your foreign affairs have been nothing short of disgusting. Why would I want to align myself with a war mongering nation like the US?
You sound like the trouble making arsehole in the pub who thinks we're on the same team! Sleep well Uncle Sam ya'll.
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Tex you're a moron.
If our country plays it how the people want it to be played, we won't be the ones getting nuked. Feel free to act like Billy Big Bollocks all you want but I'll have nothing to do with your silly games. Understand that bit & you're already smarter now than you were 10 seconds ago.
We don't hate you boys, we just see the world for what it is. We share a common language but clearly not the same ideology - Putin ain't the bad guy as far as I'm concerned and your foreign affairs have been nothing short of disgusting. Why would I want to align myself with a war mongering nation like the US?
You sound like the trouble making arsehole in the pub who thinks we're on the same team! Sleep well Uncle Sam ya'll.
Rosco, Tex is American centric, not really a bad thing but understand his perspective and his posts make sense. You can find the same in the UK or Russia that exhibit the same mentality. And in fact many are Trump, Putin or has the best rhetoric supporters. To see this in an earlier stadium look at Benito M. or Adolf H and than came along Silvio B.
The trick is to filter through the BS and see the reality, not only on a local or personal level but on a world wide level.
I do not doubt that both Donald and Vladimir have advisors saying test your 'opponent'. We are seeing this played out in the media and spun by the media to support there standpoint, which in fact may not be the personal opinion of either leaders.
NB: If the US gets nuked so does the UK :sick0012:
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One listens to the standard news media or many politicians we learn that Russia is the enemy of the United States. What has Russia done that puts them in this position? Is it because Russians have hacked the US? If that is the reason then we should be enemies with S Korea, France, Israel, and China.
What are the reasons?
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The US military industrial complex needs to keep business booming and framing Russia as the enemy has been very profitable over many many decades. That's it in a nutshell, if you ask me.
.
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The US military industrial complex needs to keep business booming and framing Russia as the enemy has been very profitable over many many decades. That's it in a nutshell, if you ask me.
.
That and the only country besides China, Russia could someday become a contender for world hegemony. The Anglo-American world power wants to keep hegemony to itself. For that Russia needs to be kept down. It has been suggested that the reason the bankers in the US and Britain funded the communist revolution was to suppress Russian economic development.
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One listens to the standard news media or many politicians we learn that Russia is the enemy of the United States. What has Russia done that puts them in this position? Is it because Russians have hacked the US? If that is the reason then we should be enemies with S Korea, France, Israel, and China.
What are the reasons?
The reason Russia is at odds with the USA is over Europe. The Russian military machine is very excited about this build up just like ours. You guys seem to feel everything cuts just one way. I posted an article some time ago about this. How come Russia does not enjoy the same relationship with the US as Germany or the UK?
There is never one reason but rather many.
Stuff I am reading says India will be the worlds largest economy by 2050. Notice India does not have an adversary relationship with any body. Maybe something to be learned here.
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One listens to the standard news media or many politicians we learn that Russia is the enemy of the United States. What has Russia done that puts them in this position? Is it because Russians have hacked the US? If that is the reason then we should be enemies with S Korea, France, Israel, and China.
What are the reasons?
The reason Russia is at odds with the USA is over Europe. The Russian military machine is very excited about this build up just like ours. You guys seem to feel everything cuts just one way. I posted an article some time ago about this. How come Russia does not enjoy the same relationship with the US as Germany or the UK?
There is never one reason but rather many.
Stuff I am reading says India will be the worlds largest economy by 2050. Notice India does not have an adversary relationship with any body. Maybe something to be learned here.
1, Russia is NOT building up their troops on Europe's borders, the US is, that's provocation.
2, Russian military is on its own homeland, the US troops are a few miles away from their homeland. ( :censored: off home)
3, Russia has never attempted to rule the world and force their will onto other countries, the US does it all the time.
4, When the US annexes another country, nobody says a word, when Russia does it, there's hell to pay.
5, India has built up its military on both its border with Pakistan, and China, where there are quiet often very serious flare-ups.
Think that you should either go back to school or STFU about stuff which you seem to have little to no knowledge about..
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The US military industrial complex needs to keep business booming and framing Russia as the enemy has been very profitable over many many decades. That's it in a nutshell, if you ask me.
.
Absolutely spot on... :bow:
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The US military industrial complex needs to keep business booming and framing Russia as the enemy has been very profitable over many many decades. That's it in a nutshell, if you ask me.
This is largely true.
1, Russia is NOT building up their troops on Europe's borders, the US is, that's provocation.
2, Russian military is on its own homeland, the US troops are a few miles away from their homeland. ( :censored: off home)
3, Russia has never attempted to rule the world and force their will onto other countries, the US does it all the time.
4, When the US annexes another country, nobody says a word, when Russia does it, there's hell to pay.
5, India has built up its military on both its border with Pakistan, and China, where there are quiet often very serious flare-ups.
Think that you should either go back to school or STFU about stuff which you seem to have little to no knowledge about..
On the first four points either you are blind or very ignorant.
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The US military industrial complex needs to keep business booming and framing Russia as the enemy has been very profitable over many many decades. That's it in a nutshell, if you ask me.
This is largely true.
1, Russia is NOT building up their troops on Europe's borders, the US is, that's provocation.
2, Russian military is on its own homeland, the US troops are a few miles away from their homeland. ( :censored: off home)
3, Russia has never attempted to rule the world and force their will onto other countries, the US does it all the time.
4, When the US annexes another country, nobody says a word, when Russia does it, there's hell to pay.
5, India has built up its military on both its border with Pakistan, and China, where there are quiet often very serious flare-ups.
Think that you should either go back to school or STFU about stuff which you seem to have little to no knowledge about..
On the first four points either you are blind or very ignorant.
That is the type of response that I would expect from an ignoramus like you..
What level of US brainwashing are you now at??
Just explain why you disagree rather than label anyone as blind or ignorant.
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Notice India does not have an adversary relationship with any body. Maybe something to be learned here.
You don't notice India AND Pakistan have Nukes and can't agree about Kashmir and MUCH more ? ..
IF they ever get their act together they should climb the rankings - economically - but number 1 ? I don't think so ...
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1, Russia is NOT building up their troops on Europe's borders, the US is, that's provocation.
Ex-USSR nations have joined NATO - hardly surprising - as they were occupied - after 'liberation' from one authoritarian regime - to be replaced by another ... NATO had been withdrawing troops / kit... Until the Kremlin stepped up it's involvement in UA. Remind us HOW many tanks the US had in Europe in 2013 ?
2, Russian military is on its own homeland, the US troops are a few miles away from their homeland. ( :censored: off home)
The problem is that Russians are on UA ( and Georgian - based on 'non-recognition' of 'Abkhazia' ) soil
3, Russia has never attempted to rule the world and force their will onto other countries, the US does it all the time.
Moscow HAS attempted to impose her will - just as the USA did - in S.America, Africa, Asia and Europe...in Imperial and Soviet guises and the leader has gone on record referring to respecting the 'will of the people of "novorossiya" ' whilst overseeing making separtist talk in the media a bigger crime...
4, When the US annexes another country, nobody says a word, when Russia does it, there's hell to pay.
Some history for you ..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_territorial_acquisitions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_territorial_acquisitions)
5, India has built up its military on both its border with Pakistan, and China, where there are quiet often very serious flare-ups.
WHEN was the last one, Gypo ? ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_border_dispute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_border_dispute)
This is more a hangover from British rule and reading the above piece hardly suggests it is going to start a war..
Think that you should either go back to school or STFU about stuff which you seem to have little to no knowledge about..
Or perhaps some of us see things from only one side ?
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The reason Russia is at odds with the USA is over Europe. The Russian military machine is very excited about this build up just like ours.
1) What business does the US have interfering with Europe? If Europe is threatened by Russia then there are many countries with a combined armed forces budget bigger than Russia. This isn't an excuse for the US to fill news threads with lies about Russia.
2) Russia is so excited by the provocation and build up of foreign armed forces along its border, its decided to station defensive units in response - a very standard response by any sovereign nation.
Again Tex - you're a plonker!
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1, Russia is NOT building up their troops on Europe's borders, the US is, that's provocation.
Ex-USSR nations have joined NATO - hardly surprising - as they were occupied - after 'liberation' from one authoritarian regime - to be replaced by another ... NATO had been withdrawing troops / kit... Until the Kremlin stepped up it's involvement in UA. Remind us HOW many tanks the US had in Europe in 2013 ?
2, Russian military is on its own homeland, the US troops are a few miles away from their homeland. ( :censored: off home)
The problem is that Russians are on UA ( and Georgian - based on 'non-recognition' of 'Abkhazia' ) soil
3, Russia has never attempted to rule the world and force their will onto other countries, the US does it all the time.
Moscow HAS attempted to impose her will - just as the USA did - in S.America, Africa, Asia and Europe...in Imperial and Soviet guises and the leader has gone on record referring to respecting the 'will of the people of "novorossiya" ' whilst overseeing making separtist talk in the media a bigger crime...
4, When the US annexes another country, nobody says a word, when Russia does it, there's hell to pay.
Some history for you ..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_territorial_acquisitions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_territorial_acquisitions)
5, India has built up its military on both its border with Pakistan, and China, where there are quiet often very serious flare-ups.
WHEN was the last one, Gypo ? ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_border_dispute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_border_dispute)
This is more a hangover from British rule and reading the above piece hardly suggests it is going to start a war..
Think that you should either go back to school or STFU about stuff which you seem to have little to no knowledge about..
Or perhaps some of us see things from only one side ?
And perhaps those that post such crap have another agenda..... :dh:
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Tex you're a moron.
If our country plays it how the people want it to be played, we won't be the ones getting nuked. Feel free to act like Billy Big Bollocks all you want but I'll have nothing to do with your silly games. Understand that bit & you're already smarter now than you were 10 seconds ago.
We don't hate you boys, we just see the world for what it is. We share a common language but clearly not the same ideology - Putin ain't the bad guy as far as I'm concerned and your foreign affairs have been nothing short of disgusting. Why would I want to align myself with a war mongering nation like the US?
You sound like the trouble making arsehole in the pub who thinks we're on the same team! Sleep well Uncle Sam ya'll.
IF nukes fly, the queen pushed the buttons ....
OR, do you not know who the Queen is? 2 BILLION people serve her. I have never figured out WHY we, the US, still need to follow her in her crazy wars. Or, WHY we have sacrificed so many lives to keep her family on the throne.
Wayne
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The reason Russia is at odds with the USA is over Europe. The Russian military machine is very excited about this build up just like ours.
1) What business does the US have interfering with Europe? If Europe is threatened by Russia then there are many countries with a combined armed forces budget bigger than Russia. This isn't an excuse for the US to fill news threads with lies about Russia.
2) Russia is so excited by the provocation and build up of foreign armed forces along its border, its decided to station defensive units in response - a very standard response by any sovereign nation.
Again Tex - you're a plonker!
Tex, he might make a great politician and get a lot of boys slaughtered, but he has no idea about the use of offensive force vs defensive force and fighting in depth.
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The US military industrial complex needs to keep business booming and framing Russia as the enemy has been very profitable over many many decades. That's it in a nutshell, if you ask me.
This is largely true.
1, Russia is NOT building up their troops on Europe's borders, the US is, that's provocation.
2, Russian military is on its own homeland, the US troops are a few miles away from their homeland. ( :censored: off home)
3, Russia has never attempted to rule the world and force their will onto other countries, the US does it all the time.
4, When the US annexes another country, nobody says a word, when Russia does it, there's hell to pay.
5, India has built up its military on both its border with Pakistan, and China, where there are quiet often very serious flare-ups.
Think that you should either go back to school or STFU about stuff which you seem to have little to no knowledge about..
On the first four points either you are blind or very ignorant.
BINGO.
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The US military industrial complex needs to keep business booming and framing Russia as the enemy has been very profitable over many many decades. That's it in a nutshell, if you ask me.
This is largely true.
1, Russia is NOT building up their troops on Europe's borders, the US is, that's provocation.
2, Russian military is on its own homeland, the US troops are a few miles away from their homeland. ( :censored: off home)
3, Russia has never attempted to rule the world and force their will onto other countries, the US does it all the time.
4, When the US annexes another country, nobody says a word, when Russia does it, there's hell to pay.
5, India has built up its military on both its border with Pakistan, and China, where there are quiet often very serious flare-ups.
Think that you should either go back to school or STFU about stuff which you seem to have little to no knowledge about..
On the first four points either you are blind or very ignorant.
That is the type of response that I would expect from an ignoramus like you..
What level of US brainwashing are you now at??
Just explain why you disagree rather than label anyone as blind or ignorant.
I forget to add the quality of naive.
The troops of the member states of NATO are around the country with a few limited American bases primarily in Germany and the UK. Russia has massive numbers of troops on the borders of Ukraine, Georgia and Poland. Last time I looked these were European countries. Yes I am well aware that Russia has also fought defensive wars.
There are battalions (between 400 and 700 troops of NATO) and a limited number of American advisors in countries such as Montenegro, Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Poland. The best guess these soldiers number less than 1000 in total.
You seem to forget that Russia has fought more wars of expansion than any other country since 1800. Thewre was also the rather telling incident at a meeting with Wewstern diplomats of N. Khrushchev
Tell that to the majority of the citizens in TransDniester, Chechyna, and a number of other countries.
Tell me which country The United States annexed? Oh Alaska, well there American can thank the English that it is was purchased from Russia. At best one could point to Hawaii circa 1893.
It is sort of pointless to have a discussion with some one such as you. But when you post such nonsense you will see a response.
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Tex you're a moron.
If our country plays it how the people want it to be played, we won't be the ones getting nuked. Feel free to act like Billy Big Bollocks all you want but I'll have nothing to do with your silly games. Understand that bit & you're already smarter now than you were 10 seconds ago.
We don't hate you boys, we just see the world for what it is. We share a common language but clearly not the same ideology - Putin ain't the bad guy as far as I'm concerned and your foreign affairs have been nothing short of disgusting. Why would I want to align myself with a war mongering nation like the US?
You sound like the trouble making arsehole in the pub who thinks we're on the same team! Sleep well Uncle Sam ya'll.
IF nukes fly, the queen pushed the buttons ....
OR, do you not know who the Queen is? 2 BILLION people serve her. I have never figured out WHY we, the US, still need to follow her in her crazy wars. Or, WHY we have sacrificed so many lives to keep her family on the throne.
Wayne
The UK cannot fire its nukes WITHOUT permission from the US, or didn't you know that??
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The reason Russia is at odds with the USA is over Europe. The Russian military machine is very excited about this build up just like ours.
1) What business does the US have interfering with Europe? If Europe is threatened by Russia then there are many countries with a combined armed forces budget bigger than Russia. This isn't an excuse for the US to fill news threads with lies about Russia.
2) Russia is so excited by the provocation and build up of foreign armed forces along its border, its decided to station defensive units in response - a very standard response by any sovereign nation.
Again Tex - you're a plonker!
Tex, he might make a great politician and get a lot of boys slaughtered, but he has no idea about the use of offensive force vs defensive force and fighting in depth.
Just like you guys did in Nam... :whist11:
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We are having a serious problem in the US right now. This is fake news to make Trump look bad is all over the place. In news conference Trump did not have a problem with Russian ship. So who else in the government matters?
The vessel that China captured your writing about was not spying like the Russian ship. It was doing survey and was no where near China. It was even outside of the new claimed water nearly all of the South China sea which extends thousands of miles from China. Nothing similar about the two in instances.
Notice! No one is flying aircraft and buzzing the Russian ship like they are doing to our ships. Only a bunch of new media people complaining with made up stories. Most likely the official who thought it was acceptable was pushing a broom. The major news media creditability in the US is less than our congress. No body but you even reads this stuff any more.
They were spying, thats another word for Surveying .... gathering intel/information.
As to where the south-china-sea is : https://www.google.nl/maps/@12.2747509,112.362474,3.75z
I can't take you seriously if you make those glaring errors.
Did you mean surveilling? Surveilling is fancy spying; whereas Surveying is marking points on the Earth to place on a map.
Or, maybe you were confused by the use of subterfuge?
Wayne
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The reason Russia is at odds with the USA is over Europe. The Russian military machine is very excited about this build up just like ours.
1) What business does the US have interfering with Europe? If Europe is threatened by Russia then there are many countries with a combined armed forces budget bigger than Russia. This isn't an excuse for the US to fill news threads with lies about Russia.
2) Russia is so excited by the provocation and build up of foreign armed forces along its border, its decided to station defensive units in response - a very standard response by any sovereign nation.
Again Tex - you're a plonker!
Tex, he might make a great politician and get a lot of boys slaughtered, but he has no idea about the use of offensive force vs defensive force and fighting in depth.
Just like you guys did in Nam... :whist11:
It was YOUR guys (the Democrats) following the will of the Queen in SE Asia. She was still hurting from losing so many Brits during '45-'46. I never have understood WHY the Democrat Party gets US in so many wars for the Queen (and previous Kings).
Remember Ike had already turned down the Queen's request to go into Vietnam.
Wayne
-
The US military industrial complex needs to keep business booming and framing Russia as the enemy has been very profitable over many many decades. That's it in a nutshell, if you ask me.
This is largely true.
1, Russia is NOT building up their troops on Europe's borders, the US is, that's provocation.
2, Russian military is on its own homeland, the US troops are a few miles away from their homeland. ( :censored: off home)
3, Russia has never attempted to rule the world and force their will onto other countries, the US does it all the time.
4, When the US annexes another country, nobody says a word, when Russia does it, there's hell to pay.
5, India has built up its military on both its border with Pakistan, and China, where there are quiet often very serious flare-ups.
Think that you should either go back to school or STFU about stuff which you seem to have little to no knowledge about..
On the first four points either you are blind or very ignorant.
That is the type of response that I would expect from an ignoramus like you..
What level of US brainwashing are you now at??
Just explain why you disagree rather than label anyone as blind or ignorant.
I forget to add the quality of naive.
The troops of the member states of NATO are around the country with a few limited American bases primarily in Germany and the UK. Russia has massive numbers of troops on the borders of Ukraine, Georgia and Poland. Last time I looked these were European countries. Yes I am well aware that Russia has also fought defensive wars.
There are battalions (between 400 and 700 troops of NATO) and a limited number of American advisors in countries such as Montenegro, Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Poland. The best guess these soldiers number less than 1000 in total.
You seem to forget that Russia has fought more wars of expansion than any other country since 1800. Thewre was also the rather telling incident at a meeting with Wewstern diplomats of N. Khrushchev
Tell that to the majority of the citizens in TransDniester, Chechyna, and a number of other countries.
Tell me which country The United States annexed? Oh Alaska, well there American can thank the English that it is was purchased from Russia. At best one could point to Hawaii circa 1893.
It is sort of pointless to have a discussion with some one such as you. But when you post such nonsense you will see a response.
How many US troops are in Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Romania, Ukraine, Georgia, Bulgaria??
The big thing to remember, is that Russia is not afraid of the US military, they showed just how good they are in many countries..
You should again look at how many countries the US has really annexed, it may surprise you..
Also look at the countries that the US has tried to force its ideology upon, which failed, then invaded..
Time to wake up to reality man...
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The reason Russia is at odds with the USA is over Europe. The Russian military machine is very excited about this build up just like ours.
1) What business does the US have interfering with Europe? If Europe is threatened by Russia then there are many countries with a combined armed forces budget bigger than Russia. This isn't an excuse for the US to fill news threads with lies about Russia.
2) Russia is so excited by the provocation and build up of foreign armed forces along its border, its decided to station defensive units in response - a very standard response by any sovereign nation.
Again Tex - you're a plonker!
Tex, he might make a great politician and get a lot of boys slaughtered, but he has no idea about the use of offensive force vs defensive force and fighting in depth.
Just like you guys did in Nam... :whist11:
It was YOUR guys (the Democrats) following the will of the Queen in SE Asia. She was still hurting from losing so many Brits during '45-'46. I never have understood WHY the Democrat Party gets US in so many wars for the Queen (and previous Kings).
Remember Ike had already turned down the Queen's request to go into Vietnam.
Wayne
Wayne, go back to school ....
Our losses up to 45 would have been much less had the US stepped up to the mark, and kept their promises.
What you are saying is utter bollox, the Queen of England had no say in the US invasion of Vietnam..
AND they lost... :ROFL:
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If you look of GDP Growth projections Russia, who used to be first among the Bric countries, will come dead last. Not my a little bit but by a lot. Why are all the other countries able to grow and Russia is only able to complain about the west? Russia has all the natural resources and should be first but it is severely missed managed by a cold war left over who think the world is just two sided while he looses pace with his real competition.
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The Russian Navy unleashes its most powerful and expensive attack sub
http://rbth.com/defence/2017/04/03/the-russian-navy-unleashes-its-most-powerful-and-expensive-attack-sub_733357
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Why is Russia creating the biggest aircraft carrier in the world?
http://rbth.com/defence/2017/04/13/why-is-russia-creating-the-biggest-aircraft-carrier-in-the-world_741689
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I think that this supercarrier idea is maskirovka. It will be set up to distract the United States and allies.
Even though there will be only one such vessel and even if not built it will impel the USA to surpass it in both size and quantity. The goal being to dilute US resources and distract from 'real' issues.
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Russia to upgrade ballistic missile system within 10 years
http://rbth.com/defence/2017/04/14/russia-to-upgrade-ballistic-missile-system-within-10-years_742537
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Mom or dad: Russia has a more powerful bomb than the U.S.
http://rbth.com/defence/2017/04/14/mom-or-dad-russia-has-a-more-powerful-bomb-than-the-us_743101
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Mom or dad: Russia has a more powerful bomb than the U.S.
http://rbth.com/defence/2017/04/14/mom-or-dad-russia-has-a-more-powerful-bomb-than-the-us_743101
I doubt you want to be within a kilometer or ten of either weapon when it makes impact at or near its target.
But the article is mostly more Russian BS. From the article "Russia's answer to the GBU-13 is known as a Thermobaric Air Bomb (TAB). Its destructive power is comparable to that of a nuclear warhead." The America bomb had the equivalent power of 10 tons of TNT the Russian's version has 4 times that amount. The nuclear weapons dropped on the Japanese were over 100 kilo tons of TNT. Too compare the weapons would be like comparing an air BB gun to an AK 47. Current nuclear weapons have even greater yields.
Also the Russian bomb and what the American's used are designed for different purposes. I believe the Americans have a similiar type of weapon with a greater equivalent of TNT, but like the Russians have not deployed it.
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3D tour of secret Russia Arctic military base
http://rbth.com/defence/2017/04/17/3d-tour-secret-russia-arctic-military-base-744753
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Mom or dad: Russia has a more powerful bomb than the U.S.
http://rbth.com/defence/2017/04/14/mom-or-dad-russia-has-a-more-powerful-bomb-than-the-us_743101
I doubt you want to be within a kilometer or ten of either weapon when it makes impact at or near its target.
But the article is mostly more Russian BS. From the article "Russia's answer to the GBU-13 is known as a Thermobaric Air Bomb (TAB). Its destructive power is comparable to that of a nuclear warhead." The America bomb had the equivalent power of 10 tons of TNT the Russian's version has 4 times that amount. The nuclear weapons dropped on the Japanese were over 100 kilo tons of TNT. Too compare the weapons would be like comparing an air BB gun to an AK 47. Current nuclear weapons have even greater yields.
Also the Russian bomb and what the American's used are designed for different purposes. I believe the Americans have a similiar type of weapon with a greater equivalent of TNT, but like the Russians have not deployed it.
why would you say the article is bullshit? Only because of the ton/kiloton denominator?
I am surprised how much horsepower/acceleration people now push out of a 3-cylinder 1-litre engine , it can run circles on a '50ts V8. Because of advancements in Turbo-technology.
I imagine the same happened to regular bombs v.s. the first nuclear ones in destructive power. It needs less kilotons to get more destructive power.
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While I dislike copy and paste. The article below is worth reading. Some I am confident will read it one way other will view it in a different light.
http://russia-insider.com/en/secstate-tillersons-chief-staff-margaret-peterlin-has-been-managing-us-cyber-warfare-operations
It is interesting to see the source and understand the background, both in the context of today and yesterday.
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Russia claims they can disable the entire US Navy with one electronic bomb.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/0f41f0c0-582c-36d6-9555-4a337617c10a/ss_russia-claims-it-can-wipe-out.html
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Russia was to cut back on military spending, so it's doubtful they'll hold the position for long.
Russia Third Largest Military Spender Globally After US, China
https://sputniknews.com/military/201704241052946797-russia-3rd-military-spender/
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Russian super weapons! As a military weapons buff I must say this gear is very impressive.
http://www.historyinorbit.com/russias-new-generation-of-super-weapons-is-stunning/?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=CRAIG_HistoryInOrbit.com-Desktop-US-Russia-8&utm_term=msn-msn-home&utm_content=https%3A%2F%2Fconsole.brax-cdn.com%2Fcreatives%2F4807de2e-a8f3-43b5-8d44-a63073961018%2FT14_CNET_0534c58a23e9a74964fa85ea84c0bab1.600x500.png&utm_campaign=Russia%27s+new+%22supertank%22+is+a+deadly+high-tech+marvel.
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Quick analysis of the Armata T-14 tank.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-armata-t-14-tank-could-be-super-dangerous-the-18330
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Putin's Arms Bazaar Is in a Serious Sales Slump
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-04-25/putin-s-arms-bazaar-is-in-a-serious-sales-slump
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Russian spy ship Liman sinks off Turkey after collision with freighter
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39734998
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New, Blue-Water Frigates to Become Main Surface Vessels of the Russian Navy
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/new-blue-water-frigates-become-main-surface-vessels-russian-navy/ri19838
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New, Blue-Water Frigates to Become Main Surface Vessels of the Russian Navy
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/new-blue-water-frigates-become-main-surface-vessels-russian-navy/ri19838
Only in a wet dream*
From the article . "Only one of the eight Soviet-built Kirov-class battlecruisers can be put out to sea now (RIA Novosti, November 16, 2016). The Russian aircraft-carrying cruiser, Admiral Kuznetsov, needs repairs after its recent campaign in Syria (VPK-news.ru, April 26). Three Russian Slava-class missile cruisers have limited capabilities, according to modern naval standards.
Moreover, the Russian Navy urgently needs to replace its Sovremenny-class destroyers and Udaloy-class frigates because their service life is ending (Vz.ru, April 21). . . . Nonetheless, not everything appears to be going smoothly with the production of the new Russian frigates. The Admiral Gorshkov has been in construction for more than a decade.
Realizing that the mass construction of new frigates will not take place in the near future due to financial and other problems, the Navy leadership has decided to extend the service life of some of its older blue-water-capable ships by intensifying their repairs and modernization. The Marshal Ustinov, a Slava-class cruiser, completed its five-year repairs in 2016 (Vesti.ru, December 26, 2016).
The geopolitical ambitions of modern Russia on the one hand, and the limited financing and shipbuilding capacities on the other, are forcing the Russian leadership to look for alternative options to achieve balanced naval asset developments.
* pun intended
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'Black Hole': The Russian Stealth Submarine No Nation Wants to Fight
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/black-hole-russian-stealth-submarine-no-nation-wants-fight/ri19855
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New, Blue-Water Frigates to Become Main Surface Vessels of the Russian Navy
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/new-blue-water-frigates-become-main-surface-vessels-russian-navy/ri19838
Not sure why Russia would think Frigates are 'not' blue water, but: Having said that. It takes more than one frigate to equal a destroyer, and most Missile Boats are a MUCH better choice, as are most Corvettes. The Sa'ar 6 is difficult to beat, and cheaper.
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What the fifth generation fighter will inherit from the Su-35
https://www.rbth.com/defence/2017/06/05/what-the-fifth-generation-fighter-will-inherit-from-the-su-35_777045
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What the fifth generation fighter will inherit from the Su-35
https://www.rbth.com/defence/2017/06/05/what-the-fifth-generation-fighter-will-inherit-from-the-su-35_777045
I enjoyed the article, but no respectable Aviation Engineer would say anything close to this:
Just recently in the West it was considered Russia's answer to America's F-22 Raptor fifth generation fighter. From your article: https://www.rbth.com/defence/2017/06/05/what-the-fifth-generation-fighter-will-inherit-from-the-su-35_777045
While the SU-35 might be an answer to the F-16's and F-18's, and possible the F-15's. The F-22 IS a true 5th Gen fighter. Some say it will exceed the F-35 for quite a few years.
But, it is nice to get a differing point of view.
Thanks.
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Russia Ready to Showcase the MiG-35
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russia-ready-showcase-mig-35/ri20208
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UK sailed one it's new super-carriers today despite having no aircraft that can use it.
Huge waste of taxpayers money....
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UK sailed one it's new super-carriers today despite having no aircraft that can use it.
Huge waste of taxpayers money....
It'll take years for the ship to be fully signed off by which time there should be aircraft available. I saw it yesterday just getting ready to leave when I was crossing the bridge.
I'm confident this country will need an aircraft carrier in some capacity over the coming 50 years or so. We could argue that the money could be better spent but then we don't just waste piles of cash on boats either.
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UK sailed one it's new super-carriers today despite having no aircraft that can use it.
Incorrect: It is not due to be commissioned for service until 2020 - the USA VTOL aircraft will begin training in next year
Huge waste of taxpayers money....
May be building a big target isn't wise in this day and age.
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New Russian naval missile system shown off to the world
https://www.rbth.com/defence/2017/06/28/new-russian-naval-missile-system-shown-off-to-the-world_791685
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UK sailed one it's new super-carriers today despite having no aircraft that can use it.
Incorrect: It is not due to be commissioned for service until 2020 - the USA VTOL aircraft will begin training in next year
Huge waste of taxpayers money....
May be building a big target isn't wise in this day and age.
Russia says new UK aircraft carrier 'a convenient target'
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40442058
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UK sailed one it's new super-carriers today despite having no aircraft that can use it.
Incorrect: It is not due to be commissioned for service until 2020 - the USA VTOL aircraft will begin training in next year
Huge waste of taxpayers money....
May be building a big target isn't wise in this day and age.
Russia says new UK aircraft carrier 'a convenient target'
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40442058
Anything that big is no longer a target.
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UK sailed one it's new super-carriers today despite having no aircraft that can use it.
Huge waste of taxpayers money....
Not near as big of a waste of taxpayers money as welfare, or a war you are not ready for.
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Russia having the opportunity to showcase their military hardware has an economic upside.
Russia Exported Hundreds of T-90 Tanks in 2016
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/russia-exported-hundreds-t-90-tanks-2016/ri20279
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Vladimir Putin shows off his war fleet in MASSIVE parade of Russia's military might
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/633646/Russia-Warships-Submarines-Navy-Day-Vladimir-Putin-Parade-St-Petersburg-Missiles-Soldiers
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The Contest for Real Men: at least that's how Russians are calling the International Army Games.
This little guy is practicing up. No doubt when the time comes, he'll be ready for it. :chuckle:
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/08/06/16/4303230A00000578-4765646-image-m-79_1502032557082.jpg)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4765646/Russia-shows-International-Army-Games-tanks.html
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Mass Brawl on Military Base Highlights a New Problem in the Russian Army
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/mass-brawl-military-base-highlights-new-problem-russian-army/ri20608
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Mass Brawl on Military Base Highlights a New Problem in the Russian Army
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/mass-brawl-military-base-highlights-new-problem-russian-army/ri20608
Interesting read, not entirely sure what this means long term.
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Russian Military to Get Scores of New Aircraft, Air Defense Systems by End 2017
https://sputniknews.com/russia/201708111056365919-russian-military-air-defense/
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Russian Military to Get Scores of New Aircraft, Air Defense Systems by End 2017
https://sputniknews.com/russia/201708111056365919-russian-military-air-defense/
No they might get a few reconditioned aircraft. A 'new aircraft' is still far away.
Please understand Sputnik has another article titled "Bracing for Chaos: August Solar Eclipse Could Bring Disaster Nightmare to US"
We are in the Dog Days ~ I would not be surprised if I read an article in SputniK "Confederate is now patsy with Moby".
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360 photo tour of Russian Navy parade in St Pete available online
https://www.rt.com/news/399715-navy-parade-360-tour/
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Russian Military to Get Scores of New Aircraft, Air Defense Systems by End 2017
https://sputniknews.com/russia/201708111056365919-russian-military-air-defense/
No they might get a few reconditioned aircraft. A 'new aircraft' is still far away.
Please understand Sputnik has another article titled "Bracing for Chaos: August Solar Eclipse Could Bring Disaster Nightmare to US"
We are in the Dog Days ~ I would not be surprised if I read an article in SputniK "Confederate is now patsy with Moby".
Av is patsy with Wiz sounds better.
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Horsemen of the Apocalypse: Russia’s 4 most dreaded military inventions
https://www.rbth.com/defence/2017/08/17/horsemen-of-the-apocalypse-russias-4-most-dread-military-inventions_824042
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Russian Military to Get Scores of New Aircraft, Air Defense Systems by End 2017
https://sputniknews.com/russia/201708111056365919-russian-military-air-defense/
No they might get a few reconditioned aircraft. A 'new aircraft' is still far away.
Please understand Sputnik has another article titled "Bracing for Chaos: August Solar Eclipse Could Bring Disaster Nightmare to US"
We are in the Dog Days ~ I would not be surprised if I read an article in SputniK "Confederate is now patsy with Moby".
Russia plans to scale back military spending - but not rearmament
https://www.rbth.com/defence/2017/08/18/russia-plans-to-scale-back-military-spending-but-not-rearmament_824682
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Let's see just how good those Russian tanks hold up against US javelins.
http://www.businessinsider.com/a-scene-from-putins-worst-nightmare-just-unfolded-in-ukraine-2017-8 (http://www.businessinsider.com/a-scene-from-putins-worst-nightmare-just-unfolded-in-ukraine-2017-8)
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Inside a war machine: Take a ride in Russia's T-90 main battle tank (VIDEO)
https://www.rt.com/news/402612-inside-t90-battle-tank/
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Peacekeeper?
Sarmat, Russia’s new ‘peacekeeper,’ can hit targets anywhere on the planet
https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/326165-sarmat-russias-new-peacekeeper-can
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/world/europe/russia-zapad-helicopter.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-3&action=click&contentCollection=Europe®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article
Yes the ability to hit 'targets' seems to be a Russian skill.
Perhaps this should be added to the Baltic thread but it indicates in a broad sense the accuracy of Russia on a multitude of fronts.
Keep it up Hulio!
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/world/europe/russia-zapad-helicopter.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-3&action=click&contentCollection=Europe®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article
Yes the ability to hit 'targets' seems to be a Russian skill.
Perhaps this should be added to the Baltic thread but it indicates in a broad sense the accuracy of Russia on a multitude of fronts.
Keep it up Hulio!
Yup, because Americans seem to hit British ones don’t they?
. Pro
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Putin Decrees Foreigners In Russian Army Can Fight In Wars Abroad
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-foreigners-army-fight-abroad/28782155.html
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Queens of the sky: The girls taking Russia’s Air Force by storm
https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/326321-queens-of-sky-girls
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Futuristic Russian Military Suit Gets Nuclear-Proof Upgrade
https://www.livescience.com/60675-russian-supersuit-nuclear-proof-watch.html
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Futuristic Russian Military Suit Gets Nuclear-Proof Upgrade
https://www.livescience.com/60675-russian-supersuit-nuclear-proof-watch.html
Your article at the end uses a position from NBC that Trump want to increase our nuclear arsenal 10X. When called on it, NBC was not able to give any possible source where they got that. It is not in any budget request or budget plans and none of Trump's inter circle advisors will admit to ever hearing him say anything like that. Most of our nuclear arsenal is 60 years old and there are plans to modernize it but these plans actually call for a reduction in the number of nuclear missiles.
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4 of Russia’s most dangerous military weapons
https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/326406-4-of-russias-most-dangerous
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Futuristic Russian Military Suit Gets Nuclear-Proof Upgrade
https://www.livescience.com/60675-russian-supersuit-nuclear-proof-watch.html
Your article at the end uses a position from NBC that Trump want to increase our nuclear arsenal 10X. When called on it, NBC was not able to give any possible source where they got that. It is not in any budget request or budget plans and none of Trump's inter circle advisors will admit to ever hearing him say anything like that. Most of our nuclear arsenal is 60 years old and there are plans to modernize it but these plans actually call for a reduction in the number of nuclear missiles.
Texan, NBC, news is western mainstream media, did you expect them to be truthful with news involving Trump?
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Russia showcases Su-30SM fighter jet in breathtaking action VIDEO
https://www.rt.com/news/408183-su-30sm-jet-video/
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Futuristic Russian Military Suit Gets Nuclear-Proof Upgrade
https://www.livescience.com/60675-russian-supersuit-nuclear-proof-watch.html
Your article at the end uses a position from NBC that Trump want to increase our nuclear arsenal 10X. When called on it, NBC was not able to give any possible source where they got that. It is not in any budget request or budget plans and none of Trump's inter circle advisors will admit to ever hearing him say anything like that. Most of our nuclear arsenal is 60 years old and there are plans to modernize it but these plans actually call for a reduction in the number of nuclear missiles.
Texan, NBC, news is western mainstream media, did you expect them to be truthful with news involving Trump?
No I did not understand why you would use an article to prove a point when is was already proven fake. NBC is part of the global news network and like RT news has an agenda. Sometime news and sometimes agenda. Most people in the USA know this.
Tom you must be a paid troll for Russia. Why else would you carry out the Russian agenda to discredit western news. RT news as well as the rest of the Putin news network and their many thousand tolls are just as fake if not more so.
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Futuristic Russian Military Suit Gets Nuclear-Proof Upgrade
https://www.livescience.com/60675-russian-supersuit-nuclear-proof-watch.html
Your article at the end uses a position from NBC that Trump want to increase our nuclear arsenal 10X. When called on it, NBC was not able to give any possible source where they got that. It is not in any budget request or budget plans and none of Trump's inter circle advisors will admit to ever hearing him say anything like that. Most of our nuclear arsenal is 60 years old and there are plans to modernize it but these plans actually call for a reduction in the number of nuclear missiles.
Texan, NBC, news is western mainstream media, did you expect them to be truthful with news involving Trump?
No I did not understand why you would use an article to prove a point when is was already proven fake. NBC is part of the global news network and like RT news has an agenda. Sometime news and sometimes agenda. Most people in the USA know this.
Tom you must be a paid troll for Russia. Why else would you carry out the Russian agenda to discredit western news. RT news as well as the rest of the Putin news network and their many thousand tolls are just as fake if not more so.
Tolls?
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Futuristic Russian Military Suit Gets Nuclear-Proof Upgrade
https://www.livescience.com/60675-russian-supersuit-nuclear-proof-watch.html
Your article at the end uses a position from NBC that Trump want to increase our nuclear arsenal 10X. When called on it, NBC was not able to give any possible source where they got that. It is not in any budget request or budget plans and none of Trump's inter circle advisors will admit to ever hearing him say anything like that. Most of our nuclear arsenal is 60 years old and there are plans to modernize it but these plans actually call for a reduction in the number of nuclear missiles.
Texan, NBC, news is western mainstream media, did you expect them to be truthful with news involving Trump?
No I did not understand why you would use an article to prove a point when is was already proven fake. NBC is part of the global news network and like RT news has an agenda. Sometime news and sometimes agenda. Most people in the USA know this.
Tom you must be a paid troll for Russia. Why else would you carry out the Russian agenda to discredit western news. RT news as well as the rest of the Putin news network and their many thousand tolls are just as fake if not more so.
Texan, i post articles from many different news sources, often when I may not agree with what is written.
I post articles from western media and I'm anti Russian to some.
I post articles from RT, and you say I'm a paid Troll for Russia.
I keep an open mind and can read all sources to form a more rounded opinion.
I have been to Russia several times and enjoy the country very much.
You should try spending some time in Russia and maybe you might have a different opinion about the good people that live there.
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I think any suggestion that Tom Cat is a paid troll (or toll) by Russia, tells us more about poor old Texan.
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TC, Looks at a variety of sources for his postings. It is far easier to post from a Russian standpoint as the Russian media is largely controlled by the Kremlin and centralized. The few 'independent' sources largely lack the means to effectively present there message. The other source are media sources such as the Sun and Encquirer which one can have a laugh with or at.
The western media mostly follows an anti-Russian viewpoint of presenting the facts that is promoted by those in power in DC and other capitals that fits there agenda.
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Was the hit order from the Kremlin?
Russian media reported at the time that the plotters were planning to plant mines on Kutuzovsky Avenue in Moscow, used by Mr Putin on a daily basis
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-41811969
https://www.yahoo.com/news/wife-chechen-accused-putin-assassination-plot-shot-dead-005455558.html
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Futuristic Russian Military Suit Gets Nuclear-Proof Upgrade
https://www.livescience.com/60675-russian-supersuit-nuclear-proof-watch.html
Your article at the end uses a position from NBC that Trump want to increase our nuclear arsenal 10X. When called on it, NBC was not able to give any possible source where they got that. It is not in any budget request or budget plans and none of Trump's inter circle advisors will admit to ever hearing him say anything like that. Most of our nuclear arsenal is 60 years old and there are plans to modernize it but these plans actually call for a reduction in the number of nuclear missiles.
Texan, NBC, news is western mainstream media, did you expect them to be truthful with news involving Trump?
No I did not understand why you would use an article to prove a point when is was already proven fake. NBC is part of the global news network and like RT news has an agenda. Sometime news and sometimes agenda. Most people in the USA know this.
Tom you must be a paid troll for Russia. Why else would you carry out the Russian agenda to discredit western news. RT news as well as the rest of the Putin news network and their many thousand tolls are just as fake if not more so.
Texan, i post articles from many different news sources, often when I may not agree with what is written.
I post articles from western media and I'm anti Russian to some.
I post articles from RT, and you say I'm a paid Troll for Russia.
I keep an open mind and can read all sources to form a more rounded opinion.
I have been to Russia several times and enjoy the country very much.
You should try spending some time in Russia and maybe you might have a different opinion about the good people that live there.
Tom you often write stories about western media and what they did not report. You have never wrote any stories about RT news and what they do not report. Notice very few stories in western media attacking Russian media. I know many people from Russia. They are indeed nice people they just have a government who has restarted the cold war. RT news is part of their arsenals in that war. The attack on the western media is for the purpose to get more people to believe the Russian propaganda and discount the western side of the story. Day after day you help with this attacked even when it has nothing to do with anything anybody is saying. Just out of the blue you go off on the western media said this when the Russian media said that so the western media is lying again. You do this when you have no insight into anything that happened other than reading the article and no way to know which side is not telling the truth. Why do your comments go on and on about how the western media is lying beyond posting the articles? Why do you not post articles about stories instead Russian propaganda against the western media? You obviously have a campaign going against the western media. The only reason I talk about the Putin's news network is all the negative press western news gets here. Western News has many problems and many news originations have an agenda why can you guys not see that in the Putin news network?
Example you posted a story about a march in Kiev that the point of the Russian story was how the western media did not cover it so it is a western media cover up. The facts about the march were mainly missing because most of the story was blasting the western media. Why wouldn't you just post a story about the march in Kiev that maybe would have a few facts about the march? Untilled Trumped got elected there is not much coverage when a couple thousand Nazis march in the USA so why would they run one when they march in Kiev? The title of the article should be "Russia media continues attack on Western counter part."
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TC, Looks at a variety of sources for his postings. It is far easier to post from a Russian standpoint as the Russian media is largely controlled by the Kremlin and centralized. The few 'independent' sources largely lack the means to effectively present there message. The other source are media sources such as the Sun and Encquirer which one can have a laugh with or at.
The western media mostly follows an anti-Russian viewpoint of presenting the facts that is promoted by those in power in DC and other capitals that fits there agenda.
You have to understand that Putin is an Anti globalist. So of course, Globalist news network will not write as many stories that are friendly toward Russia because of this. But understand the power people do not have much influence about this neither. Let me give you an example. Before any war the western media will mostly say we need to go to war in the news coverage. Then a few weeks into the war the news changes to where we get all the dead bodies and how we should of never done this and how everyone who voted for this war should be voted out of office. Then of course the Putin news network is right in there also with the same complaints. So according to western news it is Ok to go to war but no one is suppose to get hurt. If it wasn't so serious it would be funny.
There are large corporations around the world that own many news out lets in many countries. They are not governments but they own these outlets because they have an agenda. Then there is state own/controlled news organizations which also have an agenda.
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Futuristic Russian Military Suit Gets Nuclear-Proof Upgrade
https://www.livescience.com/60675-russian-supersuit-nuclear-proof-watch.html
Your article at the end uses a position from NBC that Trump want to increase our nuclear arsenal 10X. When called on it, NBC was not able to give any possible source where they got that. It is not in any budget request or budget plans and none of Trump's inter circle advisors will admit to ever hearing him say anything like that. Most of our nuclear arsenal is 60 years old and there are plans to modernize it but these plans actually call for a reduction in the number of nuclear missiles.
Texan, NBC, news is western mainstream media, did you expect them to be truthful with news involving Trump?
No I did not understand why you would use an article to prove a point when is was already proven fake. NBC is part of the global news network and like RT news has an agenda. Sometime news and sometimes agenda. Most people in the USA know this.
Tom you must be a paid troll for Russia. Why else would you carry out the Russian agenda to discredit western news. RT news as well as the rest of the Putin news network and their many thousand tolls are just as fake if not more so.
Texan, i post articles from many different news sources, often when I may not agree with what is written.
I post articles from western media and I'm anti Russian to some.
I post articles from RT, and you say I'm a paid Troll for Russia.
I keep an open mind and can read all sources to form a more rounded opinion.
I have been to Russia several times and enjoy the country very much.
You should try spending some time in Russia and maybe you might have a different opinion about the good people that live there.
Tom you often write stories about western media and what they did not report. You have never wrote any stories about RT news and what they do not report. Notice very few stories in western media attacking Russian media. I know many people from Russia. They are indeed nice people they just have a government who has restarted the cold war. RT news is part of their arsenals in that war. The attack on the western media is for the purpose to get more people to believe the Russian propaganda and discount the western side of the story. Day after day you help with this attacked even when it has nothing to do with anything anybody is saying. Just out of the blue you go off on the western media said this when the Russian media said that so the western media is lying again. You do this when you have no insight into anything that happened other than reading the article and no way to know which side is not telling the truth. Why do your comments go on and on about how the western media is lying beyond posting the articles? Why do you not post articles about stories instead Russian propaganda against the western media? You obviously have a campaign going against the western media. The only reason I talk about the Putin's news network is all the negative press western news gets here. Western News has many problems and many news originations have an agenda why can you guys not see that in the Putin news network?
Example you posted a story about a march in Kiev that the point of the Russian story was how the western media did not cover it so it is a western media cover up. The facts about the march were mainly missing because most of the story was blasting the western media. Why wouldn't you just post a story about the march in Kiev that maybe would have a few facts about the march? Untilled Trumped got elected there is not much coverage when a couple thousand Nazis march in the USA so why would they run one when they march in Kiev? The title of the article should be "Russia media continues attack on Western counter part."
Texan, honestly I have a very difficult time with the main stream media, and their constant fake news about President Trump.
Given their dishonest coverage and liberal bias with most all news stories makes for poor journalism.
If you only wish to read MSM, articles watch national TV news I can understand why your mind is not open to alternate points of view.
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Texan we discussed this before but read this now that the war games are finished you can see the west portrays Putin and Russia in a way that just ain't true!
And too, pay attention to the 100,000 into that country meaning Belarus.
If I recall you asked where I got the large number?
US Special-Operations Forces Have Quietly Moved Onto the Russian Border
https://www.thenation.com/article/us-special-operations-forces-have-quietly-moved-onto-the-russian-border/
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5 facts about ‘Kretchet’: The beast that may soon bolster Russia’s border forces
https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/326580-5-facts-about-kretchet
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TC, Looks at a variety of sources for his postings. It is far easier to post from a Russian standpoint as the Russian media is largely controlled by the Kremlin and centralized. The few 'independent' sources largely lack the means to effectively present there message. The other source are media sources such as the Sun and Encquirer which one can have a laugh with or at.
The western media mostly follows an anti-Russian viewpoint of presenting the facts that is promoted by those in power in DC and other capitals that fits there agenda.
You have to understand that Putin is an Anti globalist. So of course, Globalist news network will not write as many stories that are friendly toward Russia because of this. But understand the power people do not have much influence about this neither. Let me give you an example. Before any war the western media will mostly say we need to go to war in the news coverage. Then a few weeks into the war the news changes to where we get all the dead bodies and how we should of never done this and how everyone who voted for this war should be voted out of office. Then of course the Putin news network is right in there also with the same complaints. So according to western news it is Ok to go to war but no one is suppose to get hurt. If it wasn't so serious it would be funny.
There are large corporations around the world that own many news out lets in many countries. They are not governments but they own these outlets because they have an agenda. Then there is state own/controlled news organizations which also have an agenda.
Just be mindful that this is a tactic used by parts of the media all over.
For instance, the media will focus on a football manager in the U.K. who’s going through a difficult spell. They ramp up the pressure, post leading headlines and set in the rot.
After a while he gets sacked & the same media turns on the club for not supporting its manager.
Welcome to the real world Tex.
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TC, Looks at a variety of sources for his postings. It is far easier to post from a Russian standpoint as the Russian media is largely controlled by the Kremlin and centralized. The few 'independent' sources largely lack the means to effectively present there message. The other source are media sources such as the Sun and Encquirer which one can have a laugh with or at.
The western media mostly follows an anti-Russian viewpoint of presenting the facts that is promoted by those in power in DC and other capitals that fits there agenda.
You have to understand that Putin is an Anti globalist. So of course, Globalist news network will not write as many stories that are friendly toward Russia because of this.
Over time I have heard many descriptions of Putin, some of which if they were repeated on RUA would cause some consternation for the moderators. But Anti-Globalist is a new one, congratulations. As I see it Putin would much more prefer to be a partner in the world economy. But he will not sacrifice Russia's population for some bankers or a pat on the back from A. Merkel.
As for your second statement there is truth in this fact. But one should look at who is steering this course.
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I can see why she is getting so much attention.
Russian MoD appoints 26yo spokeswoman - and she’s already a social media sensation (PHOTOS)
https://www.rt.com/news/410212-russian-mod-appoints-26yo-spokeswoman/
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Can do the Ruskies do this?
https://twitter.com/i/moments/931618117876436994
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Why Russian Marines are the best
https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/326844-why-russian-marines-are-best
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Russia’s new, stealthy rocket ships will soon be wreaking havoc at sea
https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/326887-russias-new-stealthy-rocket-ships
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Russia to unleash new UNDETECTABLE stealth bomb designed to GLIDE across enemy airspace
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/901928/russia-army-bomb-putin-stealth-drel-moscow-techmash/amp
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Drone warfare: How Russia’s military takes out unmanned flying machines
https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/327225-drone-warfare-how-russias-military-fights
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Ever have a bad day at work? A Russian soldier back in May of last year, had a day that he won't forget anytime soon.
Hot mess: Russian soldier accidentally torches $500,000 army vehicle while cooking
https://www.rbth.com/lifestyle/327246-russian-soldier-accidently-torches-armored-vehicle
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Why Russian Marines are the best
https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/326844-why-russian-marines-are-best
So, bearing in mind the title of this thread, are you suggesting your article claims they are the best - in comparison with other parts of the RU military or in the world .... ? Given they have had FAR less real action than - say US / US operatives ( being they haven't been in Ukraine - right ) ..I wonder ..
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Russia is now the world's most dangerous nation..
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-43239331
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Russia is now the world's most dangerous nation..
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-43239331
I suspect the debt of America is more dangerous.
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I suspect the debt of America is more dangerous.
I am pretty damned sure that you are right.
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Russia’s new, stealthy rocket ships will soon be wreaking havoc at sea
https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/326887-russias-new-stealthy-rocket-ships
TC, anything has to be more stealthy than the Admiral Smith - the smokey aircraft carrier - than can be spotted by the black smoke she belches ...
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Possible short term advantage.
https://www.npr.org/2018/12/27/680467756/russia-will-deploy-new-hypersonic-missile-systems-in-2019-putin-says
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Define 'short term'. Until there is an effective defence then advantage shifts from defender to the attacker. Until the opponent has similar offensive capability then advantage remains with the first mover.
Changing that position is likely to take quite a while.
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Define 'short term'. Until there is an effective defence then advantage shifts from defender to the attacker. Until the opponent has similar offensive capability then advantage remains with the first mover.
Changing that position is likely to take quite a while.
Being Russia has little to gain by becoming the aggressor, and the United States will be sporting comparable technology within a couple years I would consider it as short term.
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Given the number of tactical and strategic nuclear weapons each country has , what is the difference? Whether total destruction is half an hour more or less?