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Information & Chat => Adventure Stories & Travel Reports => Topic started by: justadude on January 06, 2018, 04:57:47 AM

Title: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 06, 2018, 04:57:47 AM
All my bags are packed
I'm ready to go
I hate to wake you up to say goodbye
But the dawn is breakin'
It's early morn
The taxi's waitin'
He's blowin' his horn

So kiss me and smile for me
Tell me that you'll wait for me
Hold me like you'll never let me go
'Cause I'm leavin' on a jet plane
Don't know when I'll be back again
Oh babe, I hate to go

Ev'ry place I go, I'll think of you
Ev'ry song I sing, I'll sing for you
When I come back, I'll bring your wedding ring
So kiss me and smile for me
Tell me that you'll wait for me
Hold me like you'll never let me go
'Cause I'm leavin' on a jet plane
Don't know when I'll be back again
Oh babe, I hate to go
Now the time has come to leave you
One more time
Let me kiss you
Then close your eyes
I'll be on my way
Dream about the days to come
When I won't have to leave alone

Selected lyrics from John Denver's "Leaving on a Jet Plane"

I am waiting at the gate for the first flight of my journey back to Western USA. We listened to this song this morning in our flat in Eastern Ukraine. Then we had breakfast and got in the taxi to the airport. We spent 8 days in Lvov and another 2 in her city.

This narrative isn't very chronological, and, I must admit, it's a little reminiscent of a post I wrote a year ago, regarding a different girl. I think I was a little wiser this time around, but there is a long way to go before that distinction can be made.

I met this Ukrainian angel back in July. We spent 4 days together. When we parted back then, she cried, I was sad. Although we planned to keep in touch, I thought I would never see her again. But as we continued to communicate, my feelings for her only increased.

She applied for a tourist visa to visit me and was turned down. In October, I bought the ticket to see her, for the trip that is just ending. I found the long distance relationship to be extremely stressful. I decided that I would return from this trip either engaged or broken up. I just didn't think I could go through another 2-6 months before seeing her again. And, the travel is arduous. My total travel time getting there was 52 hours. I'm looking at 40 hours to get home.

I brought a 0.6 carat solitaire engagement ring with me. Starting on about day 2 of the trip, thanks to inspirational advice I read on this forum, I started asking a lot of questions. I also told her a lot about me. I told her that I didn't want a GF on the other side of the world. For clarification, she stated/asked "You are a serious man?" I replied that I am serious about her.

She had made our travel plans, including buying our train tickets. We did the things that lovers do, and it was passionate and amazing. I am tempted to say more about it but I'm going to be a gentleman. Our flat in Lvov was tiny but very clean and cute.

Around day 6 or 7, I had made up my mind.  I was nervous and often she would ask me what I was thinking, as I stared off into space contemplating when/how I would propose. The top of the Town Hall Tower in Lvov might have been nice. But not knowing cultural etiquette, I decided on a private proposal.

As it turned out, I waited until our last night together. We had dinner after she got off work. I bought a nice bottle of wine. After we got back to our room, and we were talking and embracing, she cried a little because she knew it was our last night together.

That was my cue. I went to my coat pocket and got the ring. I showed it to her and proposed. All along I had estimated the most likely answer I would hear is that she needed time to think about it, which is what happened. We talked for the next two hours about what life would be like for her.

All along I tried to make sure she knew about the good and the bad that she might encounter if she married me. I gave her reasons why she should say yes, and we openly discussed the risks for her. She has a 7 year career where she makes $1200 US per month. She would be giving up a lot.

It's time for me to board the plane. Maybe I'll add some more when I get to Warsaw.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on January 06, 2018, 07:28:03 AM
Great !

Now the big test starts for both of you ))
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 06, 2018, 08:27:32 AM
I am in Warsaw now. I just wrote about 500 words that I lost when my connection was interrupted. Now I don't have the motivation to rewrite it. Maybe later.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on January 06, 2018, 09:42:58 AM
Good luck with the answer. With that kind of income in her career she’d be giving up a lot. May I ask why it took you 52 hours to get there? I traveled from the west coast and made the journey in just under 24 hours.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 07, 2018, 05:59:23 AM
Good luck with the answer. With that kind of income in her career she’d be giving up a lot. May I ask why it took you 52 hours to get there? I traveled from the west coast and made the journey in just under 24 hours.
Very true about her income.

That's a good question. I'm probably not very skilled at buying tickets. I searched for a couple days and this was the best I could find for what I wanted. I like to fly premium economy for the longest leg of the journey. I paid $1700 round trip. I think it was too much but the next best option was $5K and it wasn't much better in terms of travel time. My trips always take 3 hops. How about you?

As it turned out, I got stuck in Warsaw for 4 days because of the crazy weather in New York. So I'm going to go back to visit her for one more day and then continue on my way back home.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on January 07, 2018, 06:06:54 AM
Good luck with the answer. With that kind of income in her career she’d be giving up a lot. May I ask why it took you 52 hours to get there? I traveled from the west coast and made the journey in just under 24 hours.
Very true about her income.

That's a good question. I'm probably not very skilled at buying tickets. I searched for a couple days and this was the best I could find for what I wanted. I like to fly premium economy for the longest leg of the journey. I paid $1700 round trip. I think it was too much but the next best option was $5K and it wasn't much better in terms of travel time. My trips always take 3 hops. How about you?

As it turned out, I got stuck in Warsaw for 4 days because of the crazy weather in New York. So I'm going to go back to visit her for one more day and then continue on my way back home.

It’s been many years however I flew Air France direct to CDG in Paris, switched planes and then direct to Kiev, switched again and on to my final destination in Ukraine. I paid more to avoid the long layovers.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: MBS01 on January 07, 2018, 09:39:06 AM
Just a thought not sure where in the east of Ukraine you needed to reach, but there are direct daily flights from Vienna to Dnepropetrovsk.  So we can do it in 2 flights over and 2 back with some time in Vienna on the return due to flight times.  This saves about a 6 hour layover in Kiev each way so much better for us.

Not sure if this helps, but pass it along for anyone interested in this route.

All the best with you and your lady.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Markje on January 07, 2018, 10:24:43 AM
I used to be able to fly direct from Frankfurt -> Simferopol, no layovers.

Now its Amsterdam->Moscow->Simferopol Talk about going the wrong way first.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 07, 2018, 11:47:47 AM
I used to be able to fly direct from Frankfurt -> Simferopol, no layovers.

Now its Amsterdam->Moscow->Simferopol Talk about going the wrong way first.
I have heard about direct flights from California to Moscow. Then back to Ukraine. I will look into this next time. Although I hope there won't be a next time.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 07, 2018, 11:48:38 AM
Just a thought not sure where in the east of Ukraine you needed to reach, but there are direct daily flights from Vienna to Dnepropetrovsk.  So we can do it in 2 flights over and 2 back with some time in Vienna on the return due to flight times.  This saves about a 6 hour layover in Kiev each way so much better for us.

Not sure if this helps, but pass it along for anyone interested in this route.

All the best with you and your lady.

Thanks for the info and the well wishes!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on January 07, 2018, 12:03:55 PM
Suggest you try using several search engines in order to find the best combination of short flight time and low price. But don’t waste time; they can quickly disappear.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Tripleg on January 07, 2018, 03:53:37 PM
Just curious, how did the two of you meet? Did you know Russian?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 09, 2018, 07:59:22 AM
We met via Tinder when I was in Ukraine last summer. I can count to 10 in Russian. Since I'm proud of that you can tell I don't really speak it! She is learning English. She makes considerable progress when we are together and relaxed. She gets nervous when I speak too fast. I told her this morning that I think she could survive just fine in an American city with how much she knows.

Speaking of this morning, I saw her again because I got caught up in the JFK flight cancellation disaster. LOT airlines put me up in a nice hotel in Warsaw for 4 days while I wait for another flight home. I can't say enough good about them. I will miss the first two days of teaching my HS students this semester.

Since I was stuck, I flew back across Ukraine to spend one more night with her. Meanwhile she had talked to her parents and a friend about my proposal. They were all on the positive side, essentially telling her to go live her dream.

She made me two more meals, dinner and breakfast. She observed that her cat likes me. And yes, I mean "cat" literally

While in Warsaw I made friends with an English guy who was also stranded. We hung out a few times and went to downtown Warsaw. That's a beautiful place! My abnb host in Warsaw on my layover coming in said Warsaw is a new city, unlike Paris, because the Poles didn't give up when invaded by the nazis during WW2. Since the city was more or less levelled, it's all new since 1945. I didn't mention I have German ancestry.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Poldark on January 09, 2018, 09:27:43 AM
I didn't mention I have German ancestry.
Typical American, I'm 10% English, 12% Irish, 68% Korean and 10% German therefore, I feel the need to mention it in some stupid way. You're an American, that's like me saying I'm Scottish despite the fact the last Scot born was 4-5 generations ago, all born in London since.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on January 09, 2018, 09:42:03 AM
I didn't mention I have German ancestry.
Typical American, I'm 10% English, 12% Irish, 68% Korean and 10% German therefore, I feel the need to mention it in some stupid way. You're an American, that's like me saying I'm Scottish despite the fact the last Scot born was 4-5 generations ago, all born in London since.

I have Neanderthal ancestors , I don't mention it to anyone! :-X
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Ste on January 09, 2018, 10:19:14 AM
I didn't mention I have German ancestry.
Typical American, I'm 10% English, 12% Irish, 68% Korean and 10% German therefore, I feel the need to mention it in some stupid way. You're an American, that's like me saying I'm Scottish despite the fact the last Scot born was 4-5 generations ago, all born in London since.


I’m British through and through but always felt different than the other boys at Hogwarts, 56 Green Lane, Bolton. Hard to pin it down so I said to my dad one day...

“Ling Chow?,.......”


.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: yankee on January 09, 2018, 10:41:29 AM
When I was being interviewed by ZAGS one of the questions they asked was what nationality I was.  I stated that I was American.  No No No they did not like this answer.  After some lengthy discussion I then told them that my father was 50% Irish and 50% Scottish and my mother was almost 100% English. I then told then that both families have been in the US for several generations.  Then I added that there was a rumor that there was some French Canadian on my mother’s side.  After several minutes of discussion they decided to leave the Nationality blank.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on January 09, 2018, 10:45:20 AM
I didn't mention I have German ancestry.
Typical American, I'm 10% English, 12% Irish, 68% Korean and 10% German therefore, I feel the need to mention it in some stupid way. You're an American, that's like me saying I'm Scottish despite the fact the last Scot born was 4-5 generations ago, all born in London since.


I’m British through and through but always felt different than the other boys at Hogwarts, 56 Green Lane, Bolton. Hard to pin it down so I said to my dad one day...

“Ling Chow?,.......”


.

That's normal today!! How different did you feel, did you ever feel like wearing a skirt and high heels? having a sex change or wasn't sure if you was a male ? That is also normal today.. :chuckle:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Ste on January 09, 2018, 10:51:26 AM
I didn't mention I have German ancestry.
Typical American, I'm 10% English, 12% Irish, 68% Korean and 10% German therefore, I feel the need to mention it in some stupid way. You're an American, that's like me saying I'm Scottish despite the fact the last Scot born was 4-5 generations ago, all born in London since.


I’m British through and through but always felt different than the other boys at Hogwarts, 56 Green Lane, Bolton. Hard to pin it down so I said to my dad one day...

“Ling Chow?,.......”


.

That's normal today!! How different did you feel, did you ever feel like wearing a skirt and high heels? having a sex change or wasn't sure if you was a male ? That is also normal today.. :chuckle:

Well a clit is vestigial dick and why do men have nipples?

One chromosome different!


.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on January 09, 2018, 11:01:55 AM
We met via Tinder when I was in Ukraine last summer. I can count to 10 in Russian. Since I'm proud of that you can tell I don't really speak it! She is learning English. She makes considerable progress when we are together and relaxed. She gets nervous when I speak too fast. I told her this morning that I think she could survive just fine in an American city with how much she knows.

Speaking of this morning, I saw her again because I got caught up in the JFK flight cancellation disaster. LOT airlines put me up in a nice hotel in Warsaw for 4 days while I wait for another flight home. I can't say enough good about them. I will miss the first two days of teaching my HS students this semester.

Since I was stuck, I flew back across Ukraine to spend one more night with her. Meanwhile she had talked to her parents and a friend about my proposal. They were all on the positive side, essentially telling her to go live her dream.

She made me two more meals, dinner and breakfast. She observed that her cat likes me. And yes, I mean "cat" literally

While in Warsaw I made friends with an English guy who was also stranded. We hung out a few times and went to downtown Warsaw. That's a beautiful place! My abnb host in Warsaw on my layover coming in said Warsaw is a new city, unlike Paris, because the Poles didn't give up when invaded by the nazis during WW2. Since the city was more or less levelled, it's all new since 1945. I didn't mention I have German ancestry.

We’re rooting for you! Sounds good she is serious.  :party0011: :party0031:

Ignore the jealous Europeans who wish they were American but also in touch with their ancestry.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Poldark on January 09, 2018, 01:53:31 PM
After some lengthy discussion I then told them that my father was 50% Irish and 50% Scottish and my mother was almost 100% English. I then told then that both families have been in the US for several generations.
Both families had been in the US for several generations you say? Then your parents are American not almost 100% English, American.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on January 09, 2018, 02:59:45 PM
After some lengthy discussion I then told them that my father was 50% Irish and 50% Scottish and my mother was almost 100% English. I then told then that both families have been in the US for several generations.
Both families had been in the US for several generations you say? Then your parents are American not almost 100% English, American.

Many Americans like to think they're Irish or Scottish. Its a Yank thing (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,18040.msg292386.html#msg292386). Even Trump does it.  :coffeeread:

Anyway, this is a TR...........

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Jerash on January 09, 2018, 03:41:29 PM
I used to be able to fly direct from Frankfurt -> Simferopol, no layovers.

Now its Amsterdam->Moscow->Simferopol Talk about going the wrong way first.
I have heard about direct flights from California to Moscow. Then back to Ukraine. I will look into this next time. Although I hope there won't be a next time.

There's an LA-Moscow direct!  Hope there will be a next time!  If you're lady is lovely and all goes well, hope you would be planning travels back there to see her family with her...
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Jerash on January 09, 2018, 03:49:26 PM
I didn't mention I have German ancestry.
Typical American, I'm 10% English, 12% Irish, 68% Korean and 10% German therefore, I feel the need to mention it in some stupid way. You're an American, that's like me saying I'm Scottish despite the fact the last Scot born was 4-5 generations ago, all born in London since.


I’m British through and through but always felt different than the other boys at Hogwarts, 56 Green Lane, Bolton. Hard to pin it down so I said to my dad one day...

“Ling Chow?,.......”


.

That's normal today!! How different did you feel, did you ever feel like wearing a skirt and high heels? having a sex change or wasn't sure if you was a male ? That is also normal today.. :chuckle:

Well a clit is vestigial dick and why do men have nipples?

One chromosome different!


.

What a big difference it is!  Don't attempt to diminish it!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: yankee on January 09, 2018, 04:37:58 PM
After some lengthy discussion I then told them that my father was 50% Irish and 50% Aat both families have been in the US for several generations.
Both families had been in the US for several generations you say? Then your parents are American not almost 100% English, American.

I appreciate what you are saying but the Russian government workers would disagree with you.




Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 10, 2018, 02:46:30 PM

There's an LA-Moscow direct!  Hope there will be a next time!  If you're lady is lovely and all goes well, hope you would be planning travels back there to see her family with her...

I'm not cut out for this travel. I'm at JFK right now. I missed my flight from Borispyl to Frankfurt because I was asleep at the switch, so I had to travel across town to Zhulainy for a 6am flight. I missed what would have been a good night's sleep in my hotel in Warsaw and it cost me $250 to boot.

I have some relatively minor lower back trouble and sitting in the Economy seats isn't good for it. I fly premium economy for the longer legs of the journey. It takes me a minimum of 24 hrs of travel one way and it has been as much as 52 hrs. I told her that if she marries me she will be making the trips back to see her folks solo.

When I was her age I didn't mind as much as I do now. Then again, I didn't really travel that much back then. I think I need to get rich and buy a private jet with a bed if I want to keep this up.

One cool thing is that she is interested in RV'ing around America. I have had many RV's and have fantasized about going semi full time for years. The idea would be to sell my main house and keep my cabin. Then maybe rent it out Abnb while we are on the road (which I'm doing now anyway), although I wouldn't really need to do that.

She thinks it is a good idea for some of the same reasons as me. You aren't always schlepping your luggage around and you always sleep in your own bed. If you get bored, drive somewhere else. The Pacific Northwest is a particularly appealing place to RV in my opinion. Then there's Canada and also the option of heading south for the winter.

It's just a dream for now. But it's fun to dream sometimes.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Poldark on January 10, 2018, 03:57:24 PM
I have some relatively minor lower back trouble and sitting in the Economy seats isn't good for it. I fly premium economy for the longer legs of the journey. It takes me a minimum of 24 hrs of travel one way and it has been as much as 52 hrs. I told her that if she marries me she will be making the trips back to see her folks solo.
Or instead of her going solo, you can stop being so cheap and take decent flights? I flew business to Russia and Ukraine, screw economy and I'm only 4 hours away!

I don't know where your based but it sounds like you can't organise a basic flight, properly and come in at decent money. I once did LHR > DXB > SYD > PER > HKG > DXB > LHR for £5k, standard pricing had it been book different, £15k and this is in business class. Only a fool pays more than he needs, likewise only a fool makes ridiculous connections increasing time in the airport.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on January 11, 2018, 09:56:41 AM
I told her that if she marries me she will be making the trips back to see her folks solo.

Thats's a very cold, if not heartless thing to say to your would be wife. I'd be surprised if that sits with her well.

You've pretty much said to her, ok i've travelled and spent enough and now I've snared you, I'm not going back to your home country again. There are all sorts in this world but don't be surprised if you've gone down in her estimation as a result.

Even if you marry her, the family wont respect you for it and I guarantee the first rough patch you hit (and it will happen) this will be brought up  I don't know you but what the hell are you thinking? You marry a woman from the FSU, you marry into an FSU family. Sounds to me like you've been shopping for a trophy.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on January 11, 2018, 11:20:03 AM
I told her that if she marries me she will be making the trips back to see her folks solo.

Thats's a very cold, if not heartless thing to say to your would be wife. I'd be surprised if that sits with her well.

You've pretty much said to her, ok i've travelled and spent enough and now I've snared you, I'm not going back to your home country again. There are all sorts in this world but don't be surprised if you've gone down in her estimation as a result.

Even if you marry her, the family wont respect you for it and I guarantee the first rough patch you hit (and it will happen) this will be brought up  I don't know you but what the hell are you thinking? You marry a woman from the FSU, you marry into an FSU family. Sounds to me like you've been shopping for a trophy.

Ouch! I’ve been rooting for JaD however this response of his surprised me. She definitely is not going to like this if she’s a normal lass.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: yankee on January 11, 2018, 12:55:05 PM
After some lengthy discussion I then told them that my father was 50% Irish and 50% Scottish and my mother was almost 100% English. I then told then that both families have been in the US for several generations.
Both families had been in the US for several generations you say? Then your parents are American not almost 100% English, American.

I guess you didn't read or comprehend much.  I said I was American
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on January 11, 2018, 01:44:47 PM
Congratulations!

Bit confused (easy enough to do) but elsewhere you indicated earlier that you were going to L'viv.

In any event now the more challenging 'work' comes.

Keep on asking questions and weigh what makes the most sense for your situation.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Poldark on January 11, 2018, 03:40:33 PM
Sounds to me like you've been shopping for a trophy.
If you read through his posts, you can tell that's what he wanted from the get go so I'm not surprised in the slightest. I wouldn't be surprised if she turned him down now.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on January 11, 2018, 07:52:10 PM
Sounds to me like you've been shopping for a trophy.
If you read through his posts, you can tell that's what he wanted from the get go so I'm not surprised in the slightest. I wouldn't be surprised if she turned him down now.

I didn’t get that. How did you come to such a stark conclusion?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 12, 2018, 07:22:38 PM
I told her that if she marries me she will be making the trips back to see her folks solo.
Sounds to me like you've been shopping for a trophy.
You say trophy like it's a bad thing))
I didn't start out on this because I wanted a woman who's not as hot as the women I meet in the US. I agree it doesn't sound good, but in context maybe it wasn't so bad. Her ex was controlling and jealous of all other relationships. He didn't like her traveling without him. Yes, it's a bit selfish on my part, but I also wanted her to know that I'm cool with her doing stuff on her own. OTOH, I would be cool with moving her parents to the US, and even living with us for a while, although we didn't discuss that. Her Dad wrenches on cars like me. I do want to meet him. At any rate, she didn't seem the least bit concerned about it.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 12, 2018, 07:33:26 PM
On the other, other hand, I am fully bought Into supporting her and helping her adjust to American life. I realise that I will be everything to her and want to make her feel very cared for and never neglected. That appeals to me and sounds fun, knowing that stage can't/won't last forever.  I have some Ukrainian and Russian neighbors that I have told her about. I plan to spend all the time with her that I can and that she wants, while also connecting her with a support network that is familiar to her.

One member privately suggested that I try to keep her away from other FSU women, because she can get ideas about how to take advantage of me and leave me. I can't see myself doing that. If you love me, you love me. If you want to leave, leave.

I had control issues in my marriage but I've learned a lot since then and wasn't that way at all in successive relationships.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on January 13, 2018, 04:08:27 AM
I had control issues in my marriage but I've learned a lot since then and wasn't that way at all in successive relationships.

One member privately suggested that I try to keep her away from other FSU women, because she can get ideas about how to take advantage of me and leave me. I can't see myself doing that. If you love me, you love me. If you want to leave, leave.


Good Chap,

ANY member suggesting that you 'keep her away' is not doing your relationship any favours ...   

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Wiz on January 13, 2018, 06:15:54 AM
I told her that if she marries me she will be making the trips back to see her folks solo.

Thats's a very cold, if not heartless thing to say to your would be wife. I'd be surprised if that sits with her well.

You've pretty much said to her, ok i've travelled and spent enough and now I've snared you, I'm not going back to your home country again. There are all sorts in this world but don't be surprised if you've gone down in her estimation as a result.

Even if you marry her, the family wont respect you for it and I guarantee the first rough patch you hit (and it will happen) this will be brought up  I don't know you but what the hell are you thinking? You marry a woman from the FSU, you marry into an FSU family. Sounds to me like you've been shopping for a trophy.

 :thumbsup: (http://www.yannis.ip3.uk/PHOTOS/E/Emotikons_RUA/clap.gif)
I think he has to be very carefull with the family connection.!

Any how have you tried KAYAK?

Look this flight!


Ukraine Intl Air
00:30 JFK non-stop 16:20 KBP  ..................... 8h 50m Ukraine

Ukraine Intl Air 11:35 KBP non-stop 14:20 JFK ..9h 45m

Price £ 491.....
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on January 13, 2018, 10:23:49 AM
I told her that if she marries me she will be making the trips back to see her folks solo.

Thats's a very cold, if not heartless thing to say to your would be wife. I'd be surprised if that sits with her well.

You've pretty much said to her, ok i've travelled and spent enough and now I've snared you, I'm not going back to your home country again. There are all sorts in this world but don't be surprised if you've gone down in her estimation as a result.

Even if you marry her, the family wont respect you for it and I guarantee the first rough patch you hit (and it will happen) this will be brought up  I don't know you but what the hell are you thinking? You marry a woman from the FSU, you marry into an FSU family. Sounds to me like you've been shopping for a trophy.

 :thumbsup: (http://www.yannis.ip3.uk/PHOTOS/E/Emotikons_RUA/clap.gif)
I think he has to be very carefull with the family connection.!

Any how have you tried KAYAK?

Look this flight!


Ukraine Intl Air
00:30 JFK non-stop 16:20 KBP  ..................... 8h 50m Ukraine

Ukraine Intl Air 11:35 KBP non-stop 14:20 JFK ..9h 45m

Price £ 491.....

I don’t think he’s learned how to break up the flight properly when he searches.

He should use a different search engine for the initial phase from CA to NYC (JFK), book it, then book the flights you showed to Kiev. From Kiev he still needs to travel to Dnipro.

Check if it’s less and faster booking separately, using various search engines. Check it combined. Book it immediately upon learning the lowest price because the search engines are programmed to raise the price once they learn what you’re trying to do.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 13, 2018, 11:20:28 AM


Look this flight!


Ukraine Intl Air
00:30 JFK non-stop 16:20 KBP  ..................... 8h 50m Ukraine

Ukraine Intl Air 11:35 KBP non-stop 14:20 JFK ..9h 45m

Price £ 491.....

I don’t think he’s learned how to break up the flight properly when he searches.

He should use a different search engine for the initial phase from CA to NYC (JFK), book it, then book the flights you showed to Kiev. From Kiev he still needs to travel to Dnipro.

Check if it’s less and faster booking separately, using various search engines. Check it combined. Book it immediately upon learning the lowest price because the search engines are programmed to raise the price once they learn what you’re trying to do.
[/quote]

That is true, it did not occur to me to use that technique for booking flights.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Markje on January 13, 2018, 01:42:35 PM
One member privately suggested that I try to keep her away from other FSU women, because she can get ideas about how to take advantage of me and leave me. I can't see myself doing that. If you love me, you love me. If you want to leave, leave.

My wife was never encouraged or discouraged from trying to meet Russian/Ukrainian women by me.

After meeting a few (5-8) she said: I don't plan on meeting any more or any again. Never said why.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Jerash on January 13, 2018, 04:42:18 PM
Hi JustAdude! I wrote 3/4 of a post and it has disappeared now so excuse me if my post seems short and impatient.

There no reason to fly 40-50 hours from the US to Russia.

I also have back issues, already one surgery. I know how long I can sit, or at least how long I can’t sit, and I don’t book flights that would be beyond that threshold. I also try to take the aisle seat whenever possible so I can stretch out into the aisle when it’s safe to do so and also to get up and walk around, stretch whenever I need to.

Flying is the worst possible way to spend your time, I can’t think of many things worse. But you can make it considerably more comfortable than you are at the moment.

You can also make it considerably more comfortable in business class. On a long haul flight, you’ll have a bed to sleep horizontally in. But flying is already expensive and business class is typically triple the cost of economy. It’s up to you whether it’s worth it.

I like the idea of travelling by motor home, especially if your adventurous enough to leave the North American continent.

Dear God,though, if you find an FSUW wife don’t make her travel 40-50 hours one way to get back home to see her family!  And once you figure out how o make that trip lore humane, you might consider the positive effect of going back together with her to her home may have on your relationship put the shoe on the other foot for a moment.


.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Wiz on January 13, 2018, 04:55:43 PM
One member privately suggested that I try to keep her away from other FSU women, because she can get ideas about how to take advantage of me and leave me. I can't see myself doing that. If you love me, you love me. If you want to leave, leave.

My wife was never encouraged or discouraged from trying to meet Russian/Ukrainian women by me.

After meeting a few (5-8) she said: I don't plan on meeting any more or any again. Never said why.

The same happened with my wife too. After meeting a bunch of Russian women in a pub and restaurant for 2-3 times..... she decided not to continue.

My advise to my wife, since her arrival was: Learn and speak English to become Fluent because it will help you to adjust and achieve alot in your life. Soon she discovered that it was not good for her to watch American programs.... and prefers ONLY English.

 ;D

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Jerash on January 13, 2018, 05:01:50 PM
One more comment I wanted to make. I don’t know where the phrase “trophy wife” came up on this thread and I don’t know what’s been contextually meant by it. But for me, this term denotes, at a minimum, stunning beauty (you might have not meant it that way).

The girls are gorgeous here in Moscow.   When I went home for Christmas holidays, I noticed it right away when I got on the Frankfurt flight to Canada. Where did all the pretty girls disappear to?

If we wanted to be so base as to rate girls’ beauty, many many girls here rate 7-10, whereas, I now see that most of the most beautiful girls available in Canada were generally 5-6. The occasional 8.

Going back to the “trophy wife” idea, if your girl is a 9-10 by any standard, I’d be cautious. It is often fake beauty learned from the beauty culture and these girls have very high expectations, especially with money. On a personal level, they tend to be fairly vacuous.

I tend to only approach girls who are naturally beautiful and who I would place at 7 on the Moscow beauty scale - there seems like the best chance of an ideal convergence of beauty and intelligence.

I’ve often noticed the local guys with girls whom I would consider pretty average or less. And I often notice the beauties alone. I wonder if the Russian guys know something the rest of us don’t.


.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Poldark on January 14, 2018, 06:53:51 AM
Going back to the “trophy wife” idea, if your girl is a 9-10 by any standard, I’d be cautious. It is often fake beauty learned from the beauty culture and these girls have very high expectations, especially with money. On a personal level, they tend to be fairly vacuous.
I take it you've been burned?

I also understand why some people are cautious but at the end of the day, you only live once and you can weed out the money grabbers pretty easily. I met countless in Kiev as they didn't even attempt to hide it, either they're terrible at what they do or they just don't care as so many schmucks head to Kiev now that they have ripe pickings from the idiots?

I'm actually heading out to Moscow on Tuesday, I bet I'll meet similar but then I've also got a habit of surrounding myself with genuinely rich people anyway so it's not an issue for me (one girl I was seeing, now friends with, her dad is a billionaire in steel industry, I know this as I visited their house and wowza!!!! :o :o :o) so I'll never understand why guys can't figure out the fakes from the real, it's easy to mingle with the ultra wealthy too as a foriegner, it's the FSU not Monaco (which is boring, Nice is 100 times better!).
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on January 14, 2018, 08:18:54 AM
One more comment I wanted to make. I don’t know where the phrase “trophy wife” came up on this thread....

I brought it up and I was suggesting that now he's snared his target, he doesn't need to go back and do anymore dirty work. At least one could read into that. If that's so, then I think its lazy, disrespectful and doesn't bode well for a future marriage.

A healthy marriage includes a decent relationship with the inlaws, ideally. If its a personality clash for example, there could be good reason to stay apart. If its because you can't be arsed then thats totally different. If I were the father, i'd suggest she meet a man willing to make an effort. I don't go back to BY quite as much these days but weddings, key birthdays and a visit to avoid a prolonged absence is always welcomed.

With regards to grading women 1-10 (however demeaning that is to some), I think guys looking for a partner gets this all back to front. It's not about being a fat, lazy bum and snaring a 10. It's about a person finding their 10. Most men subconsciously or actively want to associate themselves with a beautiful, well dressed woman but the key but is knowing your own worth.

We might see a man with a 6/7 but this man may still be punching above his weight. This woman is his 10 and he should treat her so.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Maxx on January 14, 2018, 09:20:14 AM
One member privately suggested that I try to keep her away from other FSU women, because she can get ideas about how to take advantage of me and leave me. I can't see myself doing that. If you love me, you love me. If you want to leave, leave.

My wife was never encouraged or discouraged from trying to meet Russian/Ukrainian women by me.

After meeting a few (5-8) she said: I don't plan on meeting any more or any again. Never said why.

Probably because they like to bitch and complain.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Jerash on January 14, 2018, 11:48:36 AM
Going back to the “trophy wife” idea, if your girl is a 9-10 by any standard, I’d be cautious. It is often fake beauty learned from the beauty culture and these girls have very high expectations, especially with money. On a personal level, they tend to be fairly vacuous.
I take it you've been burned?

I also understand why some people are cautious but at the end of the day, you only live once and you can weed out the money grabbers pretty easily. I met countless in Kiev as they didn't even attempt to hide it, either they're terrible at what they do or they just don't care as so many schmucks head to Kiev now that they have ripe pickings from the idiots?

I'm actually heading out to Moscow on Tuesday, I bet I'll meet similar but then I've also got a habit of surrounding myself with genuinely rich people anyway so it's not an issue for me (one girl I was seeing, now friends with, her dad is a billionaire in steel industry, I know this as I visited their house and wowza!!!! :o :o :o) so I'll never understand why guys can't figure out the fakes from the real, it's easy to mingle with the ultra wealthy too as a foriegner, it's the FSU not Monaco (which is boring, Nice is 100 times better!).

No, not burned.  This is just my impression that I've got from some of the dating sites and the girls I've seen or communicated with there.  Also, its not uncommon to see very beautiful women where everything about them screams that materialism is a very important component of their life.

Of course, what I said are generalizations and won't be true in every case.

And I wasn't talking about scammers or gold-diggers.  In my experience there are very few of those here in Moscow.  Usually when girls have expectations of finding a man that will fund an expensive lifestyle, they are quite open about it.  If someone is able and wants to fund that, then by all means and perhaps it will be a very happy relationship.  It's not for me and I'm also realistic about what I can afford, so I don't bother with the girls who's expectations I will not be able to meet.

Have fun in Moscow!  It's a lovely city!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Jerash on January 14, 2018, 11:53:01 AM
One more comment I wanted to make. I don’t know where the phrase “trophy wife” came up on this thread....

I brought it up and I was suggesting that now he's snared his target, he doesn't need to go back and do anymore dirty work. At least one could read into that. If that's so, then I think its lazy, disrespectful and doesn't bode well for a future marriage.

A healthy marriage includes a decent relationship with the inlaws, ideally. If its a personality clash for example, there could be good reason to stay apart. If its because you can't be arsed then thats totally different. If I were the father, i'd suggest she meet a man willing to make an effort. I don't go back to BY quite as much these days but weddings, key birthdays and a visit to avoid a prolonged absence is always welcomed.

With regards to grading women 1-10 (however demeaning that is to some), I think guys looking for a partner gets this all back to front. It's not about being a fat, lazy bum and snaring a 10. It's about a person finding their 10. Most men subconsciously or actively want to associate themselves with a beautiful, well dressed woman but the key but is knowing your own worth.

We might see a man with a 6/7 but this man may still be punching above his weight. This woman is his 10 and he should treat her so.

Rosco, you've said it better than I possibly could!

Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and everyone is going to have a different idea of what they would call a "7" or a "10" in beauty.  Personally, I prefer natural beauty over what Johnny Lee Hooker referred to as the "Drugstore woman".

But the bottom-line is if a man decides to be with a woman, she will be a "10" for him in every respect and treat her and behave accordingly.  I couldn't agree more!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on January 14, 2018, 12:00:07 PM

Rosco, you've said it better than I possibly could!


But the bottom-line is if a man decides to be with a woman, she will be a "10" for him in every respect and treat her and behave accordingly.  I couldn't agree more!

I confess I missed Rosco's golden comment

Credit were it's due
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Poldark on January 14, 2018, 07:14:56 PM
No, not burned.  This is just my impression that I've got from some of the dating sites and the girls I've seen or communicated with there.  Also, its not uncommon to see very beautiful women where everything about them screams that materialism is a very important component of their life.

Of course, what I said are generalizations and won't be true in every case.

And I wasn't talking about scammers or gold-diggers.  In my experience there are very few of those here in Moscow.  Usually when girls have expectations of finding a man that will fund an expensive lifestyle, they are quite open about it.  If someone is able and wants to fund that, then by all means and perhaps it will be a very happy relationship.  It's not for me and I'm also realistic about what I can afford, so I don't bother with the girls who's expectations I will not be able to meet.

Have fun in Moscow!  It's a lovely city!
Materialism is very important to many people, I'm a capitalist pig who'll buy the latest iPhone and Samsung mobile, I'll drop £1k on clothes at a moments notice and I spend a lot of money on restaurants, hotels and bars. I earned very good money and I spend it well, I can understand that some women have the 'sugar daddy' mindset to put it politely and that can be offputting to many and rightly so as who wants to support someone who won't work?

I fully understand where you come from re: expectations, I expect a lot in terms of financial equality, I've found that girls my age who come from rich families are easily accessible in Russia and Ukraine, too easily I'd say but meh. So that's what I look for, I'm actually seeing a girl in Moscow who's currently vacationing in the Alps, her parents own a chalet out there and they've been there for nearly 5 weeks now celebrating Christmas. We match on what is an important level for me, so we shall see what else we match on (it's quite a bit more but dating LD vs. IP are different kettles of fish).

I will enjoy Moscow, it's actually my last trip before I head to Paris for the weekend and then move to Dubai as I've been offered a job out there, I'll probably kick in this little exercise as I won't need to leave Dubai to meet many beautiful women from all over the world!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on January 14, 2018, 07:32:07 PM

Rosco, you've said it better than I possibly could!


But the bottom-line is if a man decides to be with a woman, she will be a "10" for him in every respect and treat her and behave accordingly.  I couldn't agree more!

I confess I missed Rosco's golden comment

Credit were it's due

+1

I've never understood the 1-10 scale; beauty is so subjective. Beyond that, there's no empirical evidence / standards to assign each number of the scale (for the sake of consistency). As an example, my body isn't perfect, but my teeth actually are (I really lucked out because both of my parents wore braces as children), so between my future wife's body and my teeth, we'll be set.  :laugh:

But seriously, I want to be together when we're old and grey... with such goals, that number scale business goes out the window real quick (not that I don't want an attractive mate, but you get my point).   
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on January 14, 2018, 07:36:34 PM
I didn't mention I have German ancestry.
Typical American, I'm 10% English, 12% Irish, 68% Korean and 10% German therefore, I feel the need to mention it in some stupid way. You're an American, that's like me saying I'm Scottish despite the fact the last Scot born was 4-5 generations ago, all born in London since.

I have Neanderthal ancestors , I don't mention it to anyone! :-X

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on January 14, 2018, 08:18:05 PM

There's an LA-Moscow direct!  Hope there will be a next time!  If you're lady is lovely and all goes well, hope you would be planning travels back there to see her family with her...

I'm not cut out for this travel. I'm at JFK right now. I missed my flight from Borispyl to Frankfurt because I was asleep at the switch, so I had to travel across town to Zhulainy for a 6am flight. I missed what would have been a good night's sleep in my hotel in Warsaw and it cost me $250 to boot.

I have some relatively minor lower back trouble and sitting in the Economy seats isn't good for it. I fly premium economy for the longer legs of the journey. It takes me a minimum of 24 hrs of travel one way and it has been as much as 52 hrs. I told her that if she marries me she will be making the trips back to see her folks solo.

When I was her age I didn't mind as much as I do now. Then again, I didn't really travel that much back then. I think I need to get rich and buy a private jet with a bed if I want to keep this up.

One cool thing is that she is interested in RV'ing around America. I have had many RV's and have fantasized about going semi full time for years. The idea would be to sell my main house and keep my cabin. Then maybe rent it out Abnb while we are on the road (which I'm doing now anyway), although I wouldn't really need to do that.

She thinks it is a good idea for some of the same reasons as me. You aren't always schlepping your luggage around and you always sleep in your own bed. If you get bored, drive somewhere else. The Pacific Northwest is a particularly appealing place to RV in my opinion. Then there's Canada and also the option of heading south for the winter.

It's just a dream for now. But it's fun to dream sometimes.

Just a dude, thanks for taking the time to keep us apprised of your recent trip / travels. It sounds to me like everything carried out well, all things considered (and excepting the rough travel arrangements and delays). I'm going to share a few of my thoughts, but bear in mind that I am even less experienced than you, so take my words with little weight.

It seems to me like you're really rushing things. Why did you feel it necessary to propose so soon (especially considering that you already suspected she would respond with a less than sure answer)? I also find it strange that you want to travel the States in a motor coach but you're uncomfortable spending a day or two traveling to the FSU by air. If you're going to realize those cross-country aspirations, better read your back the riot act. My untrained, inexperienced opinion is that if you really want this relationship to materialize in the long run, you're going to be doing a lot more flying to the FSU. As other members have suggested, thoughtful travel planning will result in more comfortable passages.

Hope you're auto project is coming together nicely. Speaking of cross-country dreams, when I finish up the sculling wherry I'm on right now, I'm gonna start building a kit plane. I want to fly across the States, Canada and eventually Alaska. My dad turns 60 this year (who knows how much longer he'll be with me) and building an airplane is something I've always wanted to do with him. We're thinking strongly of the Zenair 801-Super Duty STOL (already have the rudder for it). As much as they say they'll travel with us, maybe our wives can hang out together while we live out our dreams, eh?

By the way, did she keep the ring or did you bring it back with you? ~ Doug 

 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on January 14, 2018, 08:42:30 PM
No, not burned.  This is just my impression that I've got from some of the dating sites and the girls I've seen or communicated with there.  Also, its not uncommon to see very beautiful women where everything about them screams that materialism is a very important component of their life.

Of course, what I said are generalizations and won't be true in every case.

And I wasn't talking about scammers or gold-diggers.  In my experience there are very few of those here in Moscow.  Usually when girls have expectations of finding a man that will fund an expensive lifestyle, they are quite open about it.  If someone is able and wants to fund that, then by all means and perhaps it will be a very happy relationship.  It's not for me and I'm also realistic about what I can afford, so I don't bother with the girls who's expectations I will not be able to meet.

Have fun in Moscow!  It's a lovely city!
Materialism is very important to many people, I'm a capitalist pig who'll buy the latest iPhone and Samsung mobile, I'll drop £1k on clothes at a moments notice and I spend a lot of money on restaurants, hotels and bars. I earned very good money and I spend it well, I can understand that some women have the 'sugar daddy' mindset to put it politely and that can be offputting to many and rightly so as who wants to support someone who won't work?

I fully understand where you come from re: expectations, I expect a lot in terms of financial equality, I've found that girls my age who come from rich families are easily accessible in Russia and Ukraine, too easily I'd say but meh. So that's what I look for, I'm actually seeing a girl in Moscow who's currently vacationing in the Alps, her parents own a chalet out there and they've been there for nearly 5 weeks now celebrating Christmas. We match on what is an important level for me, so we shall see what else we match on (it's quite a bit more but dating LD vs. IP are different kettles of fish).

I will enjoy Moscow, it's actually my last trip before I head to Paris for the weekend and then move to Dubai as I've been offered a job out there, I'll probably kick in this little exercise as I won't need to leave Dubai to meet many beautiful women from all over the world!

So Poldark, you appear to know the rich veins fairly well. I will hire you to mine me three beautiful, wealthy Russian women, collect on delivery. 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Crusader on January 14, 2018, 10:07:30 PM
I told her that if she marries me she will be making the trips back to see her folks solo.
Sounds to me like you've been shopping for a trophy.
You say trophy like it's a bad thing))
I didn't start out on this because I wanted a woman who's not as hot as the women I meet in the US. I agree it doesn't sound good, but in context maybe it wasn't so bad. Her ex was controlling and jealous of all other relationships. He didn't like her traveling without him. Yes, it's a bit selfish on my part, but I also wanted her to know that I'm cool with her doing stuff on her own. OTOH, I would be cool with moving her parents to the US, and even living with us for a while, although we didn't discuss that. Her Dad wrenches on cars like me. I do want to meet him. At any rate, she didn't seem the least bit concerned about it.
Good for you. They are just jealous because they can't pull a Hott chick. But they can look on the bright side; Prince Harry is in the same bout as them and he is a "Prince"  :chuckle:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Crusader on January 14, 2018, 10:11:20 PM
Please tell us that you visited Kryjivka cafe and shot Stalin in the face 40s style.
And don't give any cucks the password.  ;D
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Crusader on January 14, 2018, 10:18:24 PM
No, not burned.  This is just my impression that I've got from some of the dating sites and the girls I've seen or communicated with there.  Also, its not uncommon to see very beautiful women where everything about them screams that materialism is a very important component of their life.

Of course, what I said are generalizations and won't be true in every case.

And I wasn't talking about scammers or gold-diggers.  In my experience there are very few of those here in Moscow.  Usually when girls have expectations of finding a man that will fund an expensive lifestyle, they are quite open about it.  If someone is able and wants to fund that, then by all means and perhaps it will be a very happy relationship.  It's not for me and I'm also realistic about what I can afford, so I don't bother with the girls who's expectations I will not be able to meet.

Have fun in Moscow!  It's a lovely city!
Materialism is very important to many people, I'm a capitalist pig who'll buy the latest iPhone and Samsung mobile, I'll drop £1k on clothes at a moments notice and I spend a lot of money on restaurants, hotels and bars. I earned very good money and I spend it well, I can understand that some women have the 'sugar daddy' mindset to put it politely and that can be offputting to many and rightly so as who wants to support someone who won't work?

I fully understand where you come from re: expectations, I expect a lot in terms of financial equality, I've found that girls my age who come from rich families are easily accessible in Russia and Ukraine, too easily I'd say but meh. So that's what I look for, I'm actually seeing a girl in Moscow who's currently vacationing in the Alps, her parents own a chalet out there and they've been there for nearly 5 weeks now celebrating Christmas. We match on what is an important level for me, so we shall see what else we match on (it's quite a bit more but dating LD vs. IP are different kettles of fish).

I will enjoy Moscow, it's actually my last trip before I head to Paris for the weekend and then move to Dubai as I've been offered a job out there, I'll probably kick in this little exercise as I won't need to leave Dubai to meet many beautiful women from all over the world!

So Poldark, you appear to know the rich veins fairly well. I will hire you to mine me three beautiful, wealthy Russian women, collect on delivery.
For some reason I have Poldark pictured in my mind as Gopher on the Love Boat.  :ROFL:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on January 15, 2018, 05:12:33 AM
But seriously, I want to be together when we're old and grey... with such goals, that number scale business goes out the window real quick (not that I don't want an attractive mate, but you get my point).

Everyone does, or at least most people do. The secret is knowing your own worth because I see a few out of shape, relatively poor blokes looking for something way out of their reach and in the end they get frustrated and shout scammer. Some guys think just because they're in Russia or Ukraine, model types will automatically accept the guys flaws because he's western.

Similarly, they'll ignore women who are probably good matches for them and most would suggest the blokes still punching above his weight. That bloke is looking for a miracle, not a partner.

Still, us guys generally prefer beautiful slim, well turned out ladies and it just so happens that part of the world has more of them available. We wouldn't go through all the hassle just to settle with a chubby feminist but its about being realistic and knowing your worth.

I've just gone 5 1/2 years married, my wife's 26 and of course I enjoy being out with her when she gets extra attention because of her looks. At New Year another beautiful lady came up to her and said I saw you as my competition as soon as I arrived. My wife enjoyed the attention and of course I love her to bits.

But what's more important at this stage is how we live together and how we make each other feel. There's that old saying - With every stunning girl, there's some poor bloke putting up with all her shit!  tiphat
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Poldark on January 15, 2018, 06:58:13 AM
So Poldark, you appear to know the rich veins fairly well. I will hire you to mine me three beautiful, wealthy Russian women, collect on delivery.
Only becuase I worked with insanely rich people before my current job, I'm going back to working with insanely rich people for the new job in Dubai. Once you know how they dress, their attitudes, how to act etc. it's easy to fit in and it's easy to pick them out only Russia and Ukraine have obviously rich people whereas in the UK, it's more muted and harder to figure out.
For some reason I have Poldark pictured in my mind as Gopher on the Love Boat.  :ROFL:
I had to Google that, no thanks! Not me :D
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on January 16, 2018, 05:46:16 PM
I’ve often noticed the local guys with girls whom I would consider pretty average or less. And I often notice the beauties alone. I wonder if the Russian guys know something the rest of us don’t.

It proves that character is more important than looks.  Beauty is only skin deep, but ugliness lasts forever.   :chuckle:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 16, 2018, 09:16:33 PM
I’ll be the first to admit I’ve got issues and that I may seem inconsistent.

RV traveling is obviously different than airline traveling. I can decide for myself when to stop and I can install any kind of seat I want, with the needed amount of backrest angle. I also don’t have to sit next to John Candys character from Planes, Trains and Automobiles.  I’m a bit of a germophobe (my gf mocks me for it, and the inconsistency of getting all greasy in the garage and the junkyard) and I know when the bedding has been washed last in the RV.
 I place too much importance on looks also.

Speaking of looks and lookers, I sent her a few videos to show her things within walking distance around my Home. She was thankful and a bit relieved. I also asked her what she would do while I’m at work. She said learn English and go to the gym( which is good news to me as fitness is a priority). So I showed her where there is a nearby gym and found some local ESL classes for her.

I think she has been very close to throwing caution to the wind and saying yes a couple of times. I’m trying to maintain a balance of making sure she knows I want her and not being pushy.

Once in a while she’ll throw in a comment about how she’d like to implement some rules. For example, no shoes or greasy clothes in the house. But she also said she’d still kiss me if I’m car dirty.

Maybe some of you guys think I don’t deserve a girl like this. I probably don’t.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 16, 2018, 09:23:07 PM
Some progress on the beetle. I made a height adjustable Cart to position the engine for trial fitting.

LOTD the kit plane sounds awesome. What engine do you think you’ll use? BTW, John Denver, who wrote the opening song of this thread, bought the farm in a kit plane, right? But I hope trust you’ll be more careful!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on January 16, 2018, 10:15:12 PM
I’ll be the first to admit I’ve got issues and that I may seem inconsistent.

RV traveling is obviously different than airline traveling. I can decide for myself when to stop and I can install any kind of seat I want, with the needed amount of backrest angle. I also don’t have to sit next to John Candys character from Planes, Trains and Automobiles.  I’m a bit of a germophobe (my gf mocks me for it, and the inconsistency of getting all greasy in the garage and the junkyard) and I know when the bedding has been washed last in the RV.
 I place too much importance on looks also.

Speaking of looks and lookers, I sent her a few videos to show her things within walking distance around my Home. She was thankful and a bit relieved. I also asked her what she would do while I’m at work. She said learn English and go to the gym( which is good news to me as fitness is a priority). So I showed her where there is a nearby gym and found some local ESL classes for her.

I think she has been very close to throwing caution to the wind and saying yes a couple of times. I’m trying to maintain a balance of making sure she knows I want her and not being pushy.

Once in a while she’ll throw in a comment about how she’d like to implement some rules. For example, no shoes or greasy clothes in the house. But she also said she’d still kiss me if I’m car dirty.

Maybe some of you guys think I don’t deserve a girl like this. I probably don’t.

A woman like her is going to want to have a career and work.

If you really want her you MUST go back and meet her parents, IMO.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on January 17, 2018, 12:07:22 AM
But what's more important at this stage is how we live together and how we make each other feel. There's that old saying - With every stunning girl, there's some poor bloke putting up with all her shit!  tiphat

Yep, that's the tradeoff I hear.  :laugh:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on January 17, 2018, 12:39:40 AM
I’ll be the first to admit I’ve got issues and that I may seem inconsistent.

RV traveling is obviously different than airline traveling. I can decide for myself when to stop and I can install any kind of seat I want, with the needed amount of backrest angle. I also don’t have to sit next to John Candys character from Planes, Trains and Automobiles.  I’m a bit of a germophobe (my gf mocks me for it, and the inconsistency of getting all greasy in the garage and the junkyard) and I know when the bedding has been washed last in the RV.
 I place too much importance on looks also.

Speaking of looks and lookers, I sent her a few videos to show her things within walking distance around my Home. She was thankful and a bit relieved. I also asked her what she would do while I’m at work. She said learn English and go to the gym( which is good news to me as fitness is a priority). So I showed her where there is a nearby gym and found some local ESL classes for her.

I think she has been very close to throwing caution to the wind and saying yes a couple of times. I’m trying to maintain a balance of making sure she knows I want her and not being pushy.

Once in a while she’ll throw in a comment about how she’d like to implement some rules. For example, no shoes or greasy clothes in the house. But she also said she’d still kiss me if I’m car dirty.

Maybe some of you guys think I don’t deserve a girl like this. I probably don’t.

It is my opinion that most of us desire nice things and relationships with people who we probably don't deserve, but that's part of life. If we wanted to make life fair, we'd have to make ourselves blind, deaf and dumb to equal the lowest common denominator. Better to recognize that life isn't fair, it's definitely short and we should appreciate our position in life and 'reach for the stars' as much as possible.

I think producing a short video of your home-life / surroundings is a good one, especially in a situation like yours (since you already know her fairly well). When I mentioned this idea to my parents, they thought it was akin to boasting of nice things as if you're dangling bait, but of course not when you are dealing with a person you've already met and know is serious about a future together. I can see how content like a video tour would reassure / relieve the woman (eliminating some of that 'fear of the unknown' stuff).

I can also understand your point about airline travel... I remember when I was a kid (certainly after the 'golden years' of commercial aviation) flying was still kind of fun. Not so anymore; today flying can be anything from alright to absolutely miserable. That said, a willingness to spend some additional money on upgraded seating as well as careful planning will usually net decent travel experiences. You're right that you can't help if you get stuck next to an undesirable travel-mate. Once I had to sit next to a very large man with a body odor problem... I would've taken John Candy any day (this guy was bad!).

Mom hates to fly and has been pushing to buy a big motor coach for some time but dad ain't budging. We actually rented one a few summers ago for a week-long trip. This machine was a fair-sized caravan with a huge 'rent me!' advertisement on the side, complete with graphics of a happy family; quite the contrast to the real family inside, ready to kill each other after about the third day. I'm sure it would be a different experience with your own, customized vehicle and just your wife, making whoopee at every other stop.   
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on January 17, 2018, 01:04:38 AM
Some progress on the beetle. I made a height adjustable Cart to position the engine for trial fitting.

LOTD the kit plane sounds awesome. What engine do you think you’ll use? BTW, John Denver, who wrote the opening song of this thread, bought the farm in a kit plane, right? But I hope trust you’ll be more careful!

Glad to hear the Beetle is moving along (well, maybe not literally yet, but you get what I'm saying). You know you're invested in the project when you're building equipment to move / position the engine!

Yeah, musician John Denver bought it in a Burt Rutan-designed kit plane (called a Long-EZ if I'm not mistaken). As with many of Rutan's designs, it's an odd-looking, canard aircraft. IIRC, J. Denver purchased the kit airplane already assembled from the original builder, who had elected to place a fuel selector switch in an odd location in the cockpit (kind of hidden behind the seat or something?). He departed with less than full fuel and exhausted one of his tanks, then couldn't find the selector switch to start on another, starved the engine of fuel and went down in the ocean. Too bad... Love 'Rocky Mountain High.'

The Zenair 801-SD will take a number of good powerplants, I'm looking primarily at the Lycoming O-360. Though I must admit that I'm also entertaining the thought of trying to install a small turbine engine, making the aircraft more like a miniature Cessna 208. If I would go this route, I will definitely employ a firm to install it for me (it will require numerous airframe / mount / cowl mods). Be super cool though and would get me away from costly avgas and into cheaper, readily available Jet-A (important for remote tundra flying). Burn rate on a turbine is higher per shaft horsepower than a piston, but the 801 can carry double fuel reserves. It'll be an experimental category either way, so on the one hand, why not go all-out? On the other hand, tried and true will get you through.

I'll be careful, but you know we all die eventually anyway. 

'Rocky Mountain high'

 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on January 17, 2018, 01:16:39 AM
A woman like her is going to want to have a career and work.

If you really want her you MUST go back and meet her parents, IMO.

Definitely agree about meeting her parents. Seems like the gal's father could be a cool cat if he's interested in working on cars too.

Speaking of career and work, Just a dude's first post on this thread mentions that the woman is making about $1200 a month in her current means of employment. Is $14.5K / year considered a decent salary in the FSU?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Markje on January 17, 2018, 01:30:18 AM
A woman like her is going to want to have a career and work.

If you really want her you MUST go back and meet her parents, IMO.

Definitely agree about meeting her parents. Seems like the gal's father could be a cool cat if he's interested in working on cars too.

Speaking of career and work, Just a dude's first post on this thread mentions that the woman is making about $1200 a month in her current means of employment. Is $14.5K / year considered a decent salary in the FSU?
Average wages for Ukraine is $200/month... so $1200/month would seem more than decent, more like well-off salary.

Also:

FSU-women tend to be more traditional in family values. I.E. If her dad says no, she will say no to the dude.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on January 17, 2018, 01:52:51 AM
A woman like her is going to want to have a career and work.

If you really want her you MUST go back and meet her parents, IMO.

Definitely agree about meeting her parents. Seems like the gal's father could be a cool cat if he's interested in working on cars too.

Speaking of career and work, Just a dude's first post on this thread mentions that the woman is making about $1200 a month in her current means of employment. Is $14.5K / year considered a decent salary in the FSU?

Average wages for Ukraine is $200/month... so $1200/month would seem more than decent, more like well-off salary.

Thanks Markje, didn't realize that.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on January 17, 2018, 04:04:23 AM
Also:

FSU-women tend to be more traditional in family values. I.E. If her dad says no, she will say no to the dude.

Unless they have daddy issues. They were my favourite kind back in my dating days!!  ;D
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on January 17, 2018, 07:50:58 AM
A woman like her is going to want to have a career and work.

If you really want her you MUST go back and meet her parents, IMO.

Definitely agree about meeting her parents. Seems like the gal's father could be a cool cat if he's interested in working on cars too.

Speaking of career and work, Just a dude's first post on this thread mentions that the woman is making about $1200 a month in her current means of employment. Is $14.5K / year considered a decent salary in the FSU?

Average wages for Ukraine is $200/month... so $1200/month would seem more than decent, more like well-off salary.

Thanks Markje, didn't realize that.

She’s doing very well in Ukraine and her friends and family are right there.   :coffeeread:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 18, 2018, 07:15:39 AM
She said YES yesterday. I/we are working on the visa application.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on January 18, 2018, 09:24:51 AM
She said YES yesterday. I/we are working on the visa application.

Congratulations!  tiphat

Do I see a surprise visit in your near future?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on January 18, 2018, 12:28:38 PM
A woman like her is going to want to have a career and work.

If you really want her you MUST go back and meet her parents, IMO.

Definitely agree about meeting her parents. Seems like the gal's father could be a cool cat if he's interested in working on cars too.

Speaking of career and work, Just a dude's first post on this thread mentions that the woman is making about $1200 a month in her current means of employment. Is $14.5K / year considered a decent salary in the FSU?
Average wages for Ukraine is $200/month... so $1200/month would seem more than decent, more like well-off salary.

Also:

FSU-women tend to be more traditional in family values. I.E. If her dad says no, she will say no to the dude.



Average wages for Ukraine is $200/month

So if you send some women over there a second hand i phone 4 you are GOD ?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Markje on January 18, 2018, 01:06:54 PM

So if you send some women over there a second hand i phone 4 you are GOD ?

Not if her other lover just sent her a new Iphone-6s
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on January 18, 2018, 01:07:41 PM

So if you send some women over there a second hand i phone 4 you are GOD ?

Not if her other lover just sent her a new Iphone-6s

 :laugh: tiphat
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 18, 2018, 10:58:38 PM
She said YES yesterday. I/we are working on the visa application.

Congratulations!  tiphat

Do I see a surprise visit in your near future?
Thanks! I would say that's not out of the question if the visa drags on past 6 months, which is likely.

VisaJourney predicts 255 days start to finish at this time.

I hope to get the application in the mail by Monday. She is working on her part of the form, I am working on mine and we are gathering evidence of the relationship together.

I continue to be impressed with how even keel she is.

The way she told me "yes" was really cute. 

I wonder if it hurt when she fell from heaven))

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: TomT on January 19, 2018, 12:00:00 AM
If you are wise, you will visit her again post haste.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on January 19, 2018, 02:44:56 AM
If you are wise, you will visit her again post haste.

It appears that all the guys who have been in this position, are giving him the same advice. I hope he takes note.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Markje on January 19, 2018, 03:28:39 AM
If you are wise, you will visit her again post haste.

It appears that all the guys who have been in this position, are giving him the same advice. I hope he takes note.
It seems kind of sad, that this is even advice that needs to be given. If you are in love, wouldn't you want to spend as much time together as soon as is humanly possible?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on January 19, 2018, 03:46:29 AM
If you are wise, you will visit her again post haste.

It appears that all the guys who have been in this position, are giving him the same advice. I hope he takes note.
It seems kind of sad, that this is even advice that needs to be given. If you are in love, wouldn't you want to spend as much time together as soon as is humanly possible?

Not if you're shopping for a mail order bride. You've selected your product so why go back to the shop?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Gipsy on January 19, 2018, 04:07:47 AM
If you are wise, you will visit her again post haste.

It appears that all the guys who have been in this position, are giving him the same advice. I hope he takes note.
It seems kind of sad, that this is even advice that needs to be given. If you are in love, wouldn't you want to spend as much time together as soon as is humanly possible?

Not if you're shopping for a mail order bride. You've selected your product so why go back to the shop?

To make sure it fits of course!!!  :party0011: :ROFL:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on January 19, 2018, 03:05:52 PM
She said YES yesterday. I/we are working on the visa application.

Congratulations!  tiphat

Do I see a surprise visit in your near future?
Thanks! I would say that's not out of the question if the visa drags on past 6 months, which is likely.

VisaJourney predicts 255 days start to finish at this time.

I hope to get the application in the mail by Monday. She is working on her part of the form, I am working on mine and we are gathering evidence of the relationship together.

I continue to be impressed with how even keel she is.

The way she told me "yes" was really cute. 

I wonder if it hurt when she fell from heaven))

How did she tell you yes? Congratulations!

I agree with the others about a return visit.

Use a travel agency if need be to get shorter transit times. Their fees are actually very low and they can get this done for you much better than what you reported!  Bon Voyage.  :plane:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 19, 2018, 11:57:28 PM
We video talk live only on weekends because that’s when our schedules sync. I messaged her in my morning and asked her how her day was. She said something about waking up alone. I said “I like the mornings when we wake up together”
She said “me too, that is why I say “YES””
 I clarified the meaning and started working on the visa application))

I’m probably about 6 hours into it so far. Over 150 pages of text conversation, pictures, airline tickets, hotel receipts, gift receipts, the app itself.

I’m hoping to get it in the mail Monday.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Jerash on January 21, 2018, 06:19:44 AM
If you are wise, you will visit her again post haste.

It appears that all the guys who have been in this position, are giving him the same advice. I hope he takes note.
It seems kind of sad, that this is even advice that needs to be given. If you are in love, wouldn't you want to spend as much time together as soon as is humanly possible?

Not if you're shopping for a mail order bride. You've selected your product so why go back to the shop?

The shop is the dating site, not the country to visit her and meet the family.


.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Jerash on January 21, 2018, 06:21:09 AM
She said YES yesterday. I/we are working on the visa application.

Congratulations!  tiphat

Do I see a surprise visit in your near future?
Thanks! I would say that's not out of the question if the visa drags on past 6 months, which is likely.

VisaJourney predicts 255 days start to finish at this time.

I hope to get the application in the mail by Monday. She is working on her part of the form, I am working on mine and we are gathering evidence of the relationship together.

I continue to be impressed with how even keel she is.

The way she told me "yes" was really cute. 

I wonder if it hurt when she fell from heaven))

How did she tell you yes? Congratulations!

I agree with the others about a return visit.

Use a travel agency if need be to get shorter transit times. Their fees are actually very low and they can get this done for you much better than what you reported!  Bon Voyage.  :plane:

Or ask us here, we can definitely help you get a flight that is well below 40-50 hours!


.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Jerash on January 21, 2018, 06:23:01 AM
We video talk live only on weekends because that’s when our schedules sync. I messaged her in my morning and asked her how her day was. She said something about waking up alone. I said “I like the mornings when we wake up together”
She said “me too, that is why I say “YES””
 I clarified the meaning and started working on the visa application))

I’m probably about 6 hours into it so far. Over 150 pages of text conversation, pictures, airline tickets, hotel receipts, gift receipts, the app itself.

I’m hoping to get it in the mail Monday.
Good luck!  Put more work into the girl than in the application (I.e., fly to her soon!). Don’t let her lose faith.


.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on January 21, 2018, 07:29:35 AM
We video talk live only on weekends because that’s when our schedules sync. I messaged her in my morning and asked her how her day was. She said something about waking up alone. I said “I like the mornings when we wake up together”
She said “me too, that is why I say “YES””
 I clarified the meaning and started working on the visa application))

I’m probably about 6 hours into it so far. Over 150 pages of text conversation, pictures, airline tickets, hotel receipts, gift receipts, the app itself.

I’m hoping to get it in the mail Monday.
Good luck!  Put more work into the girl than in the application (I.e., fly to her soon!). Don’t let her lose faith.


 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 21, 2018, 09:39:58 PM
Good luck!  Put more work into the girl than in the application (I.e., fly to her soon!). Don’t let her lose faith.

Quote
:thumbsup:
What if I just send her some flowers every month? Will that make you guys happy? :dh: :) :)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on January 29, 2018, 08:01:38 PM
It seems some have a hard time understanding reality, if a member has a job that allows or prevents him from visiting his partner for extended periods than that is something the parties need to accept and work out. We can offer suggestions or opinions but the reality might be different than what we would prefer or advise.

On the other side justadude has shown both dedication in his endeavour and an amazing aptitude of picking the worst flight schedules possible. I am sure he is quite good at (re)building vehicles but as a navigator he might be able to find flights from Reno to Denver via Mexico City.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on January 29, 2018, 08:21:29 PM
Good luck!  Put more work into the girl than in the application (I.e., fly to her soon!). Don’t let her lose faith.

Quote
:thumbsup:

What if I just send her some flowers every month? Will that make you guys happy? :dh: :) :)

You made a mistake somehow with your quote above. You quoted Jerash but gave credit to me. Please be careful when quoting.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 29, 2018, 09:32:58 PM
Will do. Sorry
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 29, 2018, 09:36:29 PM
as a navigator he might be able to find flights from Reno to Denver via Mexico City.
:laugh:
I gladly accept that from an experienced yachtsman such as yourself!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on January 30, 2018, 08:45:35 AM
It seems some have a hard time understanding reality, if a member has a job that allows or prevents him from visiting his partner for extended periods than that is something the parties need to accept and work out. We can offer suggestions or opinions but the reality might be different than what we would prefer or advise.

You're talking bull shit Av. For what its worth and it doesn't really matter other than hammering home an important point, to anyone who does this, but he said and I quote;

I told her that if she marries me she will be making the trips back to see her folks solo.

When I was her age I didn't mind as much as I do now. Then again, I didn't really travel that much back then. I think I need to get rich and buy a private jet with a bed if I want to keep this up.

Now he's found her, he can't be arsed going back because its a hassle. Supporting his new wife who's just given up her life to be with him is a hassle. His new Ukrainian extended family are a hassle. She can go back alone because the hunting trip is over for him.

It's up to him but don't paint a different picture for the readers Av. We've already found out on this very forum that back slapping only causes problems further down the road.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on January 30, 2018, 08:48:44 AM
Double post.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on January 30, 2018, 09:10:19 AM
Will do. Sorry

No worries. The words were from Jaresh and the thumbs up was from me. I didn’t write them but did agree with them.

Any change of heart about a return visit to her and her family?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on January 30, 2018, 06:41:09 PM
Good luck!  Put more work into the girl than in the application (I.e., fly to her soon!). Don’t let her lose faith.

Quote
:thumbsup:

What if I just send her some flowers every month? Will that make you guys happy? :dh: :) :)

You made a mistake somehow with your quote above. You quoted Jerash but gave credit to me. Please be careful when quoting.

This is an easy mistake when you start to parse out the "/ quote" levels and then edit out internal ones that don't connect with the correct avatar.  Your intention is to shorten the overall quote material, but you take out the wrong "/ quote" connected to the removed items.  Try doing it with a 100 level quote and just removing the ones at level 15, 40, 78, 88, and 95.    :ROFL:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on January 30, 2018, 06:48:39 PM
Or as an alternative, you can take out the avatar reference entirely as below.

Quote
I am sure he is quite good at (re)building vehicles but as a navigator he might be able to find flights from Reno to Denver via Mexico City.

I recall a recent news item about 2 passengers on a plane (strangers) who got really close to each other on a flight from TN to MI.  I think they were arrested when they deplaned in MI, but one of the passengers eventual destination was Miami.  So that person was flying up north before flying south.  Perhaps to earn more travel miles (and to experience the mile high club?).   (:)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on January 31, 2018, 07:57:37 PM
Or as an alternative, you can take out the avatar reference entirely as below.

Quote
I am sure he is quite good at (re)building vehicles but as a navigator he might be able to find flights from Reno to Denver via Mexico City.

I recall a recent news item about 2 passengers on a plane (strangers) who got really close to each other on a flight from TN to MI.  I think they were arrested when they deplaned in MI, but one of the passengers eventual destination was Miami.  So that person was flying up north before flying south.  Perhaps to earn more travel miles (and to experience the mile high club?).   (:)

I imagine if one flies those distances or say from the west coast of the United States to Ukraine one might have the opportunity to join the mile high club more than once.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on March 09, 2018, 09:14:36 PM
Here’s a little update. I have been able to relax a little more and our communication has gotten easier. I video call out of the blue sometimes if she’s having a bad day or just for no reason. She answers when she can, but work keeps her pretty busy. the main schedule is a few texts in the morning between my classes, which is afternoon for her, then I wish her goodnight before I teach my last class. Then at least one 30 min video call on the weekends.

I sent her V day flowers. She put on different outfits???? and took pictures for me. I sent her flowers yesterday for woman’s Day, too. She really appreciates that. She hangs out a lot with her brothers family and with GFs from work and elsewhere, including weekend trips.

A couple weeks ago I took a trip to a coastal town near here where I’d like to live in a couple years. She is onboard with that and liked the pictures. I’m sure to her it’s all the same because she hasn’t seen any of it anyway. But I realize a couple pitfalls are that it would be two major moves for her in two years and I won’t know anyone there either. Also, there are hardly any FSU peeps there for her to get to know.

I have spent some time on VisaJourney. My best guess is that we will get our second notice in May to July, at which point her interview should occur within a month of that. She plans to wait until nearly the last moment before leaving (2 weeks or so)  her job, which I think is prudent. We talked about what she’ll do with her apartment. She wants to sell it but I suggested she keep it, rent it out and let her brother manage it and send the income to her parents.

I raised the idea of visiting her in a couple weeks, knowing it wasn’t a good time because she works 50hrs a week and is gone for 65+ and now is taking classes for work 6 more hours per week. She said she’d rather I come for her interview, which I’m contemplating. I met her Mom on a video call a month ago but she hasn’t met any of my family. She is very self conscious about her English.

That's all I can think of at the moment
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on March 10, 2018, 06:45:22 AM
Good news.

I suspect if your schedule allows you to make a trip over, in particular for the interview, it would be a good sign and move.

If possible perhaps a meeting in Western Europe sooner is also an option. She gets to see a favourite city and you can most likely have a direct flight.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on March 10, 2018, 07:21:59 PM
Thanks for keeping us apprised of your situation JAD; happy to hear things are moving right along. In your opinion, does she have reason to be self-conscious about her English or is she easy to understand?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on March 10, 2018, 08:13:26 PM
Yes I would say she does. Of course I find it endearing but I realize that the language barrier is a real thing and that it presents challenges. When we were together round the clock for several days straight we had some minor conflicts (mostly my snoring kept her awake) and the difficulty of communicating made that worse I would say. I don’t anticipate complete marital bliss but I think we are headed in the right direction now as we get to know each other better.

I have been unable to convince her that my family will be very gracious about her lack of fluency and very welcoming and non judgmental (with a possible  exception for a sibling or two)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on March 10, 2018, 09:14:54 PM
Yes I would say she does. Of course I find it endearing but I realize that the language barrier is a real thing and that it presents challenges. When we were together round the clock for several days straight we had some minor conflicts (mostly my snoring kept her awake) and the difficulty of communicating made that worse I would say. I don’t anticipate complete marital bliss but I think we are headed in the right direction now as we get to know each other better.

I have been unable to convince her that my family will be very gracious about her lack of fluency and very welcoming and non judgmental (with a possible  exception for a sibling or two)

Perhaps her apprehension does hold some merit, but I'd bet you're making sure to speak slowly and clearly with her just the same... she'll get it. I'm becoming eager to start some conversations of my own.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on March 24, 2018, 05:27:32 PM
Yes I would say she does. Of course I find it endearing but I realize that the language barrier is a real thing and that it presents challenges. When we were together round the clock for several days straight we had some minor conflicts (mostly my snoring kept her awake) and the difficulty of communicating made that worse I would say. I don’t anticipate complete marital bliss but I think we are headed in the right direction now as we get to know each other better.

I have been unable to convince her that my family will be very gracious about her lack of fluency and very welcoming and non judgmental (with a possible  exception for a sibling or two)

Perhaps her apprehension does hold some merit, but I'd bet you're making sure to speak slowly and clearly with her just the same... she'll get it. I'm becoming eager to start some conversations of my own.
There’s no time like the present!

Well, that’s not true. For me at least. There are plenty of times like the present. One day seems like the last as I wait for my Ukrainian princess????‍♀️ to arrive????
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on March 24, 2018, 09:26:10 PM

There’s no time like the present!

Well, that’s not true. For me at least. There are plenty of times like the present. One day seems like the last as I wait for my Ukrainian princess????‍♀️ to arrive????

Ha! I can almost feel your anticipation! Keep up the good work JAD, I feel strongly that it'll pay off for you.

Truth be told, I recently got a healthy reality check from another member here kind enough to chat with me. I'm not prepared for my adventure just yet. I need to harden myself through discipline and education (far more than I currently possess). With patience and hard work I'll acquire the stamina and knowledge necessary to find my FSU love.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on May 19, 2018, 10:34:16 AM

There’s no time like the present!

Well, that’s not true. For me at least. There are plenty of times like the present. One day seems like the last as I wait for my Ukrainian princess????‍♀️ to arrive????

Ha! I can almost feel your anticipation! Keep up the good work JAD, I feel strongly that it'll pay off for you.

Truth be told, I recently got a healthy reality check from another member here kind enough to chat with me. I'm not prepared for my adventure just yet. I need to harden myself through discipline and education (far more than I currently possess). With patience and hard work I'll acquire the stamina and knowledge necessary to find my FSU love.

Well, good luck to you! This morning we had a video call. She has been in her apartment all day cleaning and reading and stuff with her cat. It occurred to me that she is like Rapunzel, from Tangled, albeit with shorter hair, and her cat is like Pascal. So I guess that makes me Flyn Rider:)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on May 19, 2018, 12:44:17 PM
Well, good luck to you! This morning we had a video call. She has been in her apartment all day cleaning and reading and stuff with her cat. It occurred to me that she is like Rapunzel, from Tangled, albeit with shorter hair, and her cat is like Pascal. So I guess that makes me Flyn Rider:)

Thanks for the wish of good luck, JAD. It's good to hear from you once again; glad things are carrying on well for you and your lady. Interesting comparison to the movie 'Tangled.' That's the one with all the flying lanterns in the finale, isn't it? I caught it in 2014 when a local summer festival had us screening the movie outdoors. After the viewing, all the kids got wish lanterns and I had to go around (with about 20 other people) helping the kiddos to light 'em up and get them off the ground (easier said than done).

Hey, go make yourself the best Flyn Rider you can be!  tiphat
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on May 20, 2018, 03:21:10 PM

There’s no time like the present!

Well, that’s not true. For me at least. There are plenty of times like the present. One day seems like the last as I wait for my Ukrainian princess????‍♀️ to arrive????

Ha! I can almost feel your anticipation! Keep up the good work JAD, I feel strongly that it'll pay off for you.

Truth be told, I recently got a healthy reality check from another member here kind enough to chat with me. I'm not prepared for my adventure just yet. I need to harden myself through discipline and education (far more than I currently possess). With patience and hard work I'll acquire the stamina and knowledge necessary to find my FSU love.

Well, good luck to you! This morning we had a video call. She has been in her apartment all day cleaning and reading and stuff with her cat. It occurred to me that she is like Rapunzel, from Tangled, albeit with shorter hair, and her cat is like Pascal. So I guess that makes me Flyn Rider:)

Welcome back bud, stay around and keep us informed.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on May 21, 2018, 07:23:18 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on May 24, 2018, 05:53:42 PM
Today we had a text discussion about something important. I have been planning to sell my suburban home and move to a cabin I have in the mountains. I think the Western Real Estate market is a little overheated. What do you think?

Recently I accelerated that time line, planning to make that move in the next 2 months. I've already met with RE agents and the ball is rolling so I thought it was about time I told her. She had been aware of this plan being on the horizon. When I told her I tried to make her feel like I was being considerate of her needs.

This town has a chain grocery store, restaurants, gas stations, a gym, hair salon, etc. In fact, those are all walking distance from the cabin. Her first questions were about taking English classes and getting a job, which I thought was a great reaction.

She also explained that she has never seen the suburb where I live, so what's the difference to her?

The conversation went well. At this point I have no plans to visit again until she goes for her interview. This is her desire as well, although it might be primarily because she wants to make sure I am there for the interview, and she doesn't want another trip to somehow interfere with that.

She is doing well it seems, going to work every day and hanging out with friends and family in the evening and weekends. This weekend she is going on a trip with 8 female friends, a venture which I fully support, both in this case, and in general.

I still haven't sent her any money, and she hasn't asked. I send flowers every month or two.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on August 26, 2018, 08:10:20 PM
Time for a little update. I/we received our NOA2, notice of action two, which means our visa has been approved at the USCIS level. Our case arrived at the National Visa Center last week. The next step is that the Kiev embassy, which will interview her for final approval, will take over the case. My fiance now needs to go get a police report to prove she's not a criminal (other than being a love bandit, haha) and get a medical exam done. I think she will have her  interview some time in the next 2-3 weeks. She got her cat all taken care of and ready to travel, but apparently she must wait 30 days after some shots that were done yesterday for a blood test for the cat. So I'm thinking she will be here in about 5 weeks. It has been just over a year since we first met. We are both scared to death and super excited at the same time!

I have moved to my mountain home and that is where we will live. My suburban home is up for sale. We realize this location will be a challenge for her as there are likely fewer opportunities for her to learn English and work here.

We have discussed some things lately, including compatibility issues, like our different diets (I'm a vegetarian) and different views on shoes in the house (I'll bet you can guess which one of us wants no shoes in the house). We haven't found any deal breakers yet. There are no sure things and there is no reward without risk. We'll see how it goes! It's a fun ride right now.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on August 26, 2018, 08:14:21 PM
These matters take time ~ but your news is positive.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on August 26, 2018, 08:39:33 PM
Time for a little update. I/we received our NOA2, notice of action two, which means our visa has been approved at the USCIS level. Our case arrived at the National Visa Center last week. The next step is that the Kiev embassy, which will interview her for final approval, will take over the case. My fiance now needs to go get a police report to prove she's not a criminal (other than being a love bandit, haha) and get a medical exam done. I think she will have her  interview some time in the next 2-3 weeks. She got her cat all taken care of and ready to travel, but apparently she must wait 30 days after some shots that were done yesterday for a blood test for the cat. So I'm thinking she will be here in about 5 weeks. It has been just over a year since we first met. We are both scared to death and super excited at the same time!

I have moved to my mountain home and that is where we will live. My suburban home is up for sale. We realize this location will be a challenge for her as there are likely fewer opportunities for her to learn English and work here.

We have discussed some things lately, including compatibility issues, like our different diets (I'm a vegetarian) and different views on shoes in the house (I'll bet you can guess which one of us wants no shoes in the house). We haven't found any deal breakers yet. There are no sure things and there is no reward without risk. We'll see how it goes! It's a fun ride right now.

Congratulations! I would suggest making some concessions, such as agreeing to leave shoes in the storage area inside the door like she did back in Ukraine.

Remember that she’s left family, friends, language, culture and her job to move across an ocean to be with you.

Good luck!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Markje on August 27, 2018, 12:06:14 AM
Congrats. But why not live in your suburban home?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on August 27, 2018, 02:32:34 AM
When you mention a 'cabin' in the mountains are we talking the whole Grizzly Adams 'there's a bear in my tin bath' sort of place or a proper home with plastered walls, polished floors, and all the conveniences that a modern woman will want?

Some folks spend part of the summer in their dacha which might be somewhat comparable, but probably closer to civilization, but that's a vacation, not a lifetime.

If you are living the bearded mountain idyll be prepared for some kickback, no matter what she tells you right now! The opportunity to learn English, or lack thereof, will be just one of the smaller issues that she, and in turn, you, will have to face. For a person accustomed to living in an apartment in an urban environment, living full time in the back end of beyond might be a torment akin to solitary confinement in prison.

I'd hold off selling the house if I were you!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on August 27, 2018, 04:47:06 AM
If I may, here’s a word of warning from someone who knows.

Your girl will suffer some kind of homesickness and depression at some point. My wife did and there’s no quick fix. She needs access to English language classes, the ability to head out on her own to local amenities and a group to be part of. Possibly even a job but above all a life and some independence.

If you put her not only in physical isolation but total isolation then I can guarantee she’ll be heading for home before you can blink. I recall you mentioned that you won’t be heading back to Ukraine to visit your new family either?

You really need to think this one through because it’s got trouble written all over it. Wait for your first proper argument and whilst you’re stewing in your home environment, she’ll be all alone and ready to leave.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on August 27, 2018, 12:35:28 PM
I recall you mentioned that you won’t be heading back to Ukraine to visit your new family either?

Really?? Maybe you could explain why?? Very strange statement....
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Wiz on August 27, 2018, 03:08:43 PM
Unreasonable expectations

In an effort to try and be helpful to the OP, I searched my notes and found a post I made in November 2008, few months after I got married to my wife and hope these comments may help the OP in his pursuit for happiness. Bear in mind that circumstances today have change quite a lot, than those old good years.

Unreasonable expectations of life together in a new culture can lead to some interesting and possibly devastating consequences. The ability to prepare an FSU lady for changes in lifestyle hinges on the man's honest portrayal of his true situation in life. Yet, even with full disclosure there is a good chance that some unreasonable expectations will linger in the mind of an FSU lady until she has experienced the new culture first hand. More than likely, your lady will not be the only person with unreasonable expectations. Western men usually hold some unrealistic opinions as well.

America and the western world are not really similar to what is portrayed in most movies and television programs. Unfortunately, the media is where most FSU women get their opinions about life in the west. It's unavoidable, but true. We know the real score, and we take it for granted. We realize that the vast majority of Americans are not industrial magnates and that they don't own vineyards in Napa Valley or hobnob with celebrities. However, there is a perception among most FSU people that all westerners, especially Americans, are wealthy. America has money trees, and the streets are paved with gold.

Maybe I'm exaggerating a little, but this is not far from the truth based on comments I've heard while living in Russia in Ufa. Instant wealth is the most common misperception. Other strongly held beliefs that may cause problems during adjustment include: Life in America is a constant vacation, people don't have to work to make a living, everyone travels extensively and the people are friendly because they don't have any problems.

It becomes easy to understand why problems might arise given the disparity between reality and expectations. This is no more true than the unreasonable expectations held by many western men regarding FSU women. The most common misperception of Russian women is that they are docile wallflowers. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Russian women have assumed the preponderance of responsibility for the family and social order in Russia. On top of this, most are reliable workers, earn degrees from universities, and to a greater or lesser extent, are opinionated.

Don't make the mistake that because Russian women are sophisticated and intelligent, that they are somehow cold and independent. Expect civility, nor servility. Expect feminine, not feminist. With all their strength, they are still women who want a strong man to lead and protect them. But, they want that leadership in the form of compassion and example, not an iron fist.

May I suggest that you read this article too as you will find it very interesting, despite that is very old. You will find most comments very helpful, as it was written by a Russian woman.

Cultural Differences In Marriage (http://www.russianwomenmagazine.com/about/differences.htm)

Good luck anyway

 tiphat
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on August 27, 2018, 03:16:51 PM
The post of Wiz has allot of wisdom in it.

Will your bride enjoy cars also how will she adapt to your being a professor. The life style of California is very different to Western Ukraine.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Wiz on August 27, 2018, 03:25:19 PM
The post of Wiz has allot of wisdom in it.

Will your bride enjoy cars also how will she adapt to your being a professor. The life style of California is very different to Western Ukraine.


Read again the last part of my post as I have added an old but interesting article too.

 ;D
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on August 27, 2018, 05:50:43 PM

Western men usually hold some unrealistic opinions as well.

Everyone probably has their own attitude and ideas regarding other people and their cultures.  I spent over a month in an isolated village area many years ago and I could see why so many of the local village people wanted some way to get away from that kind of lifestyle.  When outsiders would come to visit, their first question would be can you help me to get out of here?  Doing farm work and growing your own food gets monotonous  (I read somewhere that suicide was higher for farmers).  There was no variety in the foods that you ate there (due to limitations to what you grew).  I also developed hives after staying there after a few weeks.  It only stopped after I left for "civilized" areas.  Putting myself in the other person's shoes, I know that adjusting to living overseas will be a challenge for me. Living in isolation would only work as long as I had other local natives providing any help for me.  But unless there was something to keep me busy, life can become a monotonous routine.  Probably someone who lives such a lifestyle before would be fine to relocating to the same lifestyle somewhere else.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on August 27, 2018, 07:40:26 PM
Although this is a 4000' elevation mountain town, it is not very isolated. The cabin is 1 minute off of a freeway. A major chain supermarket is 7 minutes walking, the Ukrainian mail order bride trifecta, haha, a hair salon, gym and nail salon, are all right next door to the market.

Also, there is a much bigger town 10 minutes driving, with a Walmart and a Home Depot and even an In n' Out.

The "dacha" in which we will be living is a 2 bedroom with new granite counter tops, new stainless appliances, new floors, sheetrock walls (because someone asked), an outdoor 2 person jacuzzi, lots of natural, finished wood, 2 TVs, wifi, etc.

However, I lived in this town for 10 years, ending 6 years ago, and there can be as much as 3 feet of snow on the ground for a few days. We don't get below 28F, and the snow doesn't stay powdery or drift. Nevertheless, there is shoveling to be done from time to time.

I do indeed plan to go along with the no shoes policy in the house. I am trying to get used to it now.

I am trying to sell the suburban house now because I think the housing market has reached a bit of a plateau, if not a peak in my area. Also, I love living in this area.

4 years ago I met my Belarussian GF in this town.  When she moved to my home in the suburbs, she decided she really liked that lifestyle as compared to the mountains. Since I want to live in an area like this, I thought it would be better to do the move before my fiance arrives. Also, asking her to move twice in a year or less didn't seem like a good idea. I think this is a good move for our financial future, but I'll admit it may ultimately be selfish.

Eventually I'd like us to move to the coast. She is aware of this and all the other things, but, as you say, she will not know what things are really like until she gets here. When I told her about the move, she said "What is that to me, I don't know the difference between the suburban area and the mountain area".
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on August 27, 2018, 07:47:32 PM
If I may, here’s a word of warning from someone who knows.

Your girl will suffer some kind of homesickness and depression at some point. My wife did and there’s no quick fix.

she’ll be heading for home before you can blink. I recall you mentioned that you won’t be heading back to Ukraine to visit your new family either?

You really need to think this one through because it’s got trouble written all over it. Wait for your first proper argument and whilst you’re stewing in your home environment, she’ll be all alone and ready to leave.
Some good points. You seem experienced and genuinely concerned. I assume you think I shouldn't go through with this? I take your words seriously, although I should say that I don't think you have raised any issues of which I was not aware. Believe me, I have had my share of doubts about this. I'm sure she has also.

How does one make a decision like this? I think I have done my due diligence (although some obviously would disagree) and  don't think I could know any more about the risks until I actually move forward. Based on everything I know , I want to move forward and so does she, with everything she knows. Despite my analytical tendencies, I am also trying to enjoy the butterflies moments.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on August 27, 2018, 09:23:33 PM
I built her a walk in closet in our bedroom, and a couple more closets in the kitchen. One thing I've wanted is to make sure everything is an upgrade for her. Bigger house vs. her flat, nicer weather, prettier place (45 minutes from Tahoe), bigger closets, kitchen  with a dishwasher, a car vs. public transport, etc.
(https://image.ibb.co/k5fik9/IMG_0950.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/ePO3k9/IMG_0949.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/mObdJU/IMG_0948.jpg)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Omega1982 on August 27, 2018, 10:32:33 PM
Maladetz! 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Wiz on August 28, 2018, 03:03:23 AM
I have visited Lvov several times at differents times of the year, including Christmas holidays and also summer.

Your lady in Lvov had her own flat and a well paid job for the Ukrainian standards. The centre of the down is very modern and most buildings were designed to the Vienna style . Lvov is the capital of western Ukraine, it's a cosmopolitan city and very westernised.

Did you take time to read what I have posted in my old travel site, if not, I suggest you read now. Bear in mind that the information there is since 2005 and I expect by now Lvov has improved a lot more. (Click the link below.)

Welcome to Lvov (http://www.ukraine.ukme.com/Lvov/index.html)

(http://www.ukraine.ukme.com/Lvov/photogallery/p2291.JPG)

Shevchenko Avenue

I just wonder what is the future awaiting your girl in the place you intend to live.

According to your description it appears that it's a tiny community, up in the mountains and not much else, in social tems is going on.

After the honeymoon period and learning the language what else you woman will have to look forward?

Is she planning to work or will stay home? I expect is the latter.

Sorry I am asking such questions but I feel you should take into consideration the fact the your girl left Lvov, her country, family, work, friends and a place she knew well for what reason? Only to be with you?

Have you thought about the cultural shock which lasts for years?

I hope and wish I am wrong but been through the same adventure.....bring these subjects to your attention as you don't want to have  :trainwreck:

Good luck

 tiphat



Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on August 28, 2018, 03:28:19 AM
It is good that our hero is not quite totally isolated, however, for context. Within a 10 minute drive of my home in an Eastern European city, I can, off the top of my head think of four large shopping malls each with a large supermarket. Then there are at least 6 more standalone supermarkets with some attached smaller retailers - analogous to a U.S strip mall. Most of those locations will have hair/beauty salons, there's a load of gyms and fitness clubs (a big change because a decade ago they were rare). The point here is not that you have a single example of some of the things your fiancee will want/need within commuting distance - every prison has one of those things - the point is that to her, your mountainous idyll is a social and cultural desert and if you are going to live there together you will need to be able to help her. Telling her that she can walk to the hairdresser through the snow in not more than 30 minutes will win you only the opportunity to buy her a plane ticket back to her real home.

There's a whole mindset. If you try to get her to accept this paucity of resources as being normal or even good, then the chances of succeeding at building a lifelong partnership are small. After all, you are just going to be starting to get to know each other. You need to come to her from the perspective that you understand that the place you want to live is, to her, a barren wasteland, devoid of the appurtenances of civilization. Help her to get to grips with it, or, even better, give her the choice to live in civilization. I can tell you this, not maximizing your bank balance is a lot less painful than not maximizing your happiness.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Fashionista on August 28, 2018, 06:11:01 AM
Although this is a 4000' elevation mountain town, it is not very isolated. The cabin is 1 minute off of a freeway. A major chain supermarket is 7 minutes walking, the Ukrainian mail order bride trifecta, haha, a hair salon, gym and nail salon, are all right next door to the market.

Also, there is a much bigger town 10 minutes driving, with a Walmart and a Home Depot and even an In n' Out.



Do you know what she is going to do there? Everyone is different, but I'd go insane from boredom. Does she drive or do you have to take her everywhere?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Wiz on August 28, 2018, 07:58:39 AM
justadude

I just posted an article regarding "Cultural Shock" which you may find useful.

Enjoy reading .... as it's long one: :)

 Cultural Shock (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,27458.msg483631/topicseen.html#msg483631)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on August 28, 2018, 11:52:31 AM
she said "What is that to me, I don't know the difference between the suburban area and the mountain area".

If you are able to delay the sale, my advice would be let her have some time in your suburban house and some time in your mountain house and have her choose.

I'm inclined to think she will think the mountain house a "village" home and that has connotations in her culture.

4 years ago I met my Belarusian GF in this town.  When she moved to my home in the suburbs, she decided she really liked that lifestyle as compared to the mountains.

Again, mountains often equal "village" in their culture. Even if you paint it as a nice dacha, nobody wants to live in the dacha 365. It's a place you go to have a barbecue and chill with pals and family at weekends in the summer. 

We all know that mountain/village living in the west can be great. She may grow to love it as you do. But give her the choice because you dont want her hating the living location, on top of the mountain you will have to climb [pun intended] that is her several year adaptation period.

By all means sell her the mountain deal, have her choose, then sell the suburban house if she chooses mountain. You've leverage against future sulking then as she made the choice to be there.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Omega1982 on August 28, 2018, 05:16:59 PM
First of all congratulations.  I wish you and her much happiness and success in this big move. 

I would like to make a suggestion from one fiscal conservative to another.  I do hope you have some sort of paperwork in place to protect these two homes, and or other assets in the unfortunate event things were to go south. 

I've read in the past that this should be translated so that she can fully comprehend the tenets thereof. 

I don't want to be negative or for you to get offended.  It's just a layer of protection and it does not take away from love or the great moments of marriage. 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on August 28, 2018, 10:45:56 PM
The hairdresser is a 7 minute walk without snow. In the snow for a battle hardened Ukrainian girl born 3 years before the Berlin wall came down, probably 8 minutes.

She is from Eastern Ukraine. We went to Lvov on vacation last winter.

Other than those two corrections, everything else you guys say is correct, so I should probably just give up now. I think that is the only thing that will make you guys happy))

Seriously, though, I don't see this as any kind of slam dunk. Then again, I don't believe in the Disneyland happily ever after prince and princess thing. I hope this lasts forever, but I realize that it may not. Furthermore, I don't necessarily buying into the Disney dream, in and of itself, improves your chances of succeeding. In fact, maybe it hurts them.

Based on what I know so far, I am moving forward. Omega, you make good points. I haven't mentioned a pre-nup. Maybe I should. On the other hand, I think community property laws are pretty clear here in CA. Whatever assets you bring into a marriage remain yours should the marriage end. However, if things become co-mingled then it can get sticky. 

No, I didn't read the stuff about culture shock for her. It will be hell I'm sure! I have dated a few immigrants, and known and taught many more. And, I lived in Ukraine for 7 weeks myself. That was very tough and I got homesick like a little baby. I estimate that this girl is tougher than me in this way.

As for her viewing this area as a village, including all it's negative connotations, I think there is a real possibility of that occurring. She will get to make that judgement for herself. The place where I live is a bit of a vacation destination. It is beautiful here. I have tried to tell her as much as I can about it. This is where I live. I hope she likes it as much as I do. If not, she can decide what are her best options are, as she is an adult.

I am constantly analyzing the situation and there other important things I consider, on both sides of the ledger, that I am not willing to post on an open forum.

Once again, though, thanks for the help!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on August 28, 2018, 10:52:15 PM
Oh yah, I’m a little hurt that I didn’t score any RUA brownie points with the walk in closet((
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on August 28, 2018, 10:53:52 PM
Maladetz!
Then again, I don’t know what this means!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on August 28, 2018, 11:04:41 PM
Oh yah, I’m a little hurt that I didn’t score any RUA brownie points with the walk in closet((

Don't feel too bad, I am quite pleased to learn of the great progress in your relationship and for what it's worth, I think your renovations look great! I can only imagine what some of the members here might say when they see the embattled castle I'm going to build.

I second Manny's opinion that if you can swing it, you should keep both houses. 

I only wish you would check in more often JAD. ~ Doug   
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Omega1982 on August 28, 2018, 11:43:36 PM
It means well done in Russian. 

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on August 29, 2018, 01:36:16 AM
Oh yah, I’m a little hurt that I didn’t score any RUA brownie points with the walk in closet((

I’m late to comment however you seem to be an amazing carpenter! Looked like it was built by a professional to me. There are your brownie points!  :)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on August 29, 2018, 07:52:24 PM
It means well done in Russian.
Thanks for the compliment and the new word!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on August 29, 2018, 07:54:14 PM
Oh yah, I’m a little hurt that I didn’t score any RUA brownie points with the walk in closet((

I’m late to comment however you seem to be an amazing carpenter! Looked like it was built by a professional to me. There are your brownie points!  :)

Thanks!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on August 29, 2018, 08:09:51 PM
We had a good video call today. I had an offer on the house. It was 10K below asking price. I told her about the decision I needed to make, which seems large to me. She was pragmatic and non judgmental, and waded into the discussion without being pushy or dismissive.

On a much smaller dollar scale, I am sending her a few hundred dollars to pay for her visa application and medical exam. She didn't ask, but after I volunteered she seemed relieved that I wanted to help. She has already invested money into getting her cat ready to travel and some other things.

The cat is another concern. I really don't like litter boxes, especially in the kitchen. I don't have hard floors in any other room except the bathroom, which is the dog's domain because her doggie door exits through there.

Maybe I'll put a laminate floor in the spare bedroom.

I also hope the dog/cat thing works well. I will assume she doesn't like dogs walking in and out of the house tracking in germs and dirt. Maybe I can get my dog to take off her shoes when she comes in through the doggie door. Then there is figuring out sleeping with the dog and cat...
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on August 29, 2018, 08:14:32 PM
We had a good video call today. I had an offer on the house. It was 10K below asking price. I told her about the decision I needed to make, which seems large to me. She was pragmatic and non judgmental, and waded into the discussion without being pushy or dismissive.

On a much smaller dollar scale, I am sending her a few hundred dollars to pay for her visa application and medical exam. She didn't ask, but after I volunteered she seemed relieved that I wanted to help. She has already invested money into getting her cat ready to travel and some other things.

The cat is another concern. I really don't like litter boxes, especially in the kitchen. I don't have hard floors in any other room except the bathroom, which is the dog's domain because her doggie door exits through there.

Maybe I'll put a laminate floor in the spare bedroom.

I also hope the dog/cat thing works well. I will assume she doesn't like dogs walking in and out of the house tracking in germs and dirt. Maybe I can get my dog to take off her shoes when she comes in through the doggie door. Then there is figuring out sleeping with the dog and cat...

Life is filled with challenges.

On a separate matter any suggestions to deal with poison ivy/oak infections?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on August 30, 2018, 06:28:11 AM
If I may, here’s a word of warning from someone who knows.

Your girl will suffer some kind of homesickness and depression at some point. My wife did and there’s no quick fix.

she’ll be heading for home before you can blink. I recall you mentioned that you won’t be heading back to Ukraine to visit your new family either?

You really need to think this one through because it’s got trouble written all over it. Wait for your first proper argument and whilst you’re stewing in your home environment, she’ll be all alone and ready to leave.
Some good points. You seem experienced and genuinely concerned. I assume you think I shouldn't go through with this? I take your words seriously, although I should say that I don't think you have raised any issues of which I was not aware. Believe me, I have had my share of doubts about this. I'm sure she has also.

How does one make a decision like this? I think I have done my due diligence (although some obviously would disagree) and  don't think I could know any more about the risks until I actually move forward. Based on everything I know , I want to move forward and so does she, with everything she knows. Despite my analytical tendencies, I am also trying to enjoy the butterflies moments.

I never said that you shouldn't go through with it, assuming you mean the relationship. I am concerned though with a number of your choices, based on my own personal experience. I can only comment on the bits I read here and I do genuinely wish you guys all the very best with your new beginnings.

All i'm saying is;

Don't underestimate how much she'll need access to amenities so she can do her stuff and grow her roots. It's a new life half way around the world. Everyones different but during the dark days, my wife didn't appreciate the natural beauty because that wasn't important to her then. She needed the energy of a city, the lifestyle options that brings and access to a life independent of me. Now she loves the mountains and the sea because she's in a different place and can access the city whenever she wants. Given the choice now, I'd bet Mrs Rosco would take a more peaceful home, but if I'd lived in a cabin in the hills 6 years ago, my wife would have left for home when the culture shock was at its worst.

Don't under estimate how important family is. I've said all I'll say on your plans but you'll need to either re-think that one or expect problems. It's not normal and her family will feel the same.

Don't under estimate homesickness. It cant be cured over night and a degree of depression will set in. I recall chatting with Manny about it back in the day and he named it the great depression. You cant talk it out of anyone and times the only medicine. That said, isolation to a person who's already isolated and questioning their life choices, is a doomsday scenario. You better hope that cats got good banter.

Anyway, don't think I'm giving you a hard time for the sake of it or wanting you to bin your plans because it'll make me feel better. I'm only pointing out the obvious given what we went through.

Good luck.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on August 30, 2018, 06:40:34 AM
Look at the problem from her perspective:
1) For whatever reason, she has chosen to settle down with a relative stranger from another country. You will probably never know the truth of the reasoning for the choice, but it is never an easy one to make.

2) She will already know that finding a moderately well socialized American bloke is not an easy thing to do, there's not many of you and there will have been, in her mind at least, some competition for you. Women have a tendency to imagine that any bloke they are interested in is attractive to other women - that validates their choices.

3) Because you are a rare beast and that she thinks (correctly or not) that she was in a competition for your favors she will imagine that she needs to go along with pretty much anything you suggest at this point. Like most women, she will imagine (almost always wrongly) that she can change you when you are together.

The upshot of this is that she is pretty unlikely to reject any suggestions you make to her before she arrives in the Land of the Free. In addition, she almost certainly understands much, much, less of your conversations than you think she does. The same will be true the other way round as well.

For that reason, you need to hold off on any choices that reduce options for the both of you later on. If you are correct and the property market has plateaued in your area then holding off on a sale costs you nothing but it will have an impact upon the potential for success of your, hopefully, lifetime relationship.

Don't try to make the perfect palace for her. A home is something that is created together, over time. Presenting her with a ready-made paradise (at least as you see it) is simply to create a pretty prison and she will understand that as soon as she walks through the front door to her new cell.

So, try to see her situation from her perspective, practice your empathy muscles, you'll need them, whatever happens. As I have often said to other people, don't try to make choices for her. Let her have at least a strong, well-informed, input into them.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on August 30, 2018, 11:07:02 PM


On a separate matter any suggestions to deal with poison ivy/oak infections?

Calamine lotion?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on August 30, 2018, 11:12:08 PM

All i'm saying is;

Don't underestimate how much she'll need access to amenities so she can do her stuff and grow her roots. It's a new life half way around the world. Everyones different but during the dark days, my wife didn't appreciate the natural beauty because that wasn't important to her then. She needed the energy of a city, the lifestyle options that brings and access to a life independent of me. Now she loves the mountains and the sea because she's in a different place and can access the city whenever she wants. Given the choice now, I'd bet Mrs Rosco would take a more peaceful home, but if I'd lived in a cabin in the hills 6 years ago, my wife would have left for home when the culture shock was at its worst.

Don't under estimate how important family is. I've said all I'll say on your plans but you'll need to either re-think that one or expect problems. It's not normal and her family will feel the same.

Don't under estimate homesickness. It cant be cured over night and a degree of depression will set in. I recall chatting with Manny about it back in the day and he named it the great depression. You cant talk it out of anyone and times the only medicine. That said, isolation to a person who's already isolated and questioning their life choices, is a doomsday scenario. You better hope that cats got good banter.

Anyway, don't think I'm giving you a hard time for the sake of it or wanting you to bin your plans because it'll make me feel better. I'm only pointing out the obvious given what we went through.

Good luck.

Thanks but if you're not suggesting I give up then I guess I'm not really sure I understand what or if you're suggesting I do. Worry more? Be more scared? I'm willing to do some things but not anything to make this relationship work. Moving back to the suburbs isn't on the list. I don't necessarily think that makes me unfit to continue this relationship.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on August 30, 2018, 11:20:04 PM
So, try to see her situation from her perspective, practice your empathy muscles, you'll need them, whatever happens. As I have often said to other people, don't try to make choices for her. Let her have at least a strong, well-informed, input into them.

As usual you make some good points, not the least of which is that empathy is helpful in almost all situations! As stated above, there are things I am not willing to do. If that makes me evil, then so be it.

She is a big girl (well, not that big, haha). Based on the information she has access to so far, and her assessment of how complete and accurate that information is, she has decided to move forward. She will continue to gather more information as things progress and this process will obviously accelerate rapidly after I pick her up at the airport (or maybe I'll just send an uber driver to pick up my mail order bride))). Kidding!

And she will always have the option of deciding to stay in or bail out, as will I.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on August 31, 2018, 12:53:50 AM
She will already know that finding a moderately well socialized American bloke is not an easy thing to do,

I so often doubt the accuracy of any conclusion andrewfi makes and this 'generalisation' is no exception ..



Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on August 31, 2018, 04:45:27 AM
Lines in the sand (snow) already, before you even know each other.

Hmmm.

I can't speak for every relationship of every person, but in my limited experience, in a relationship between equals there's a whole heap of flexibility that goes into the success of the endeavour.

Of course, if the relationship is not between equals then the master can command whatever he wishes until such time as the crew deserts.

That's why empathy is important. I might be wrong about my points outlined above, but I would bet a heap of imaginary Internet Bitcoins that I am not far off the mark. Yes, she is an adult but all she knows about her future is what you have told her. She is investing a whole heap of trust in your honesty. Problem is that you won't have been honest, she will not have understood everything you told her because, apart from the language issues, she has no context in which to examine what you tell her.

What this means is that, unless you put yourself in a mental place where you are willing to be more flexible with other people than you are accustomed to, you will be master and commander of a ship carrying just one person.

Unless careful, you might find yourself at the mercy of a woman whose preservation instincts have been turned up to 11 and who is supported by a legal system that cares nothing for your lines in the sand.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on August 31, 2018, 05:45:51 AM
A couple points, 20 years ago I spent a fair amount of time from San Francisco to Los Angeles, but mostly in the hinterland. Carmel was amusing though. I saw some amazing things.

But a cabin can be many different things. Two bedrooms with a view to say that one has both the sunrise /sunset, WOW. A kitchen from Poggenpohl and a swimming pool with endless views from Berndorff in Stainless Steel. Or it can be primitive and very basic (THINK OUTHOUSE), with a couple and kid in nappy's growing marijuana to supplement there poverty. And it can be everything in-between.

Just a Dude is versatile and has indicated he is tenured University Professor and can build a quirky/funky car in his garage. I suspect a relationship with the give and take that it requires is something that he can master. Numerous posts during his time in Ukraine have shown empathy and concern about the fact that some one is abandoning there life abroad to be with him. He has not promised riches or an easy life.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on August 31, 2018, 08:13:28 AM
I am sure that his home in the wilderness is very fine. And I am sure that he put a lot of effort into it.

That's not really the issue. Life, living and lifestyle are not just about the roof we sleep under at night - although for a newly landed migrant with no job, no connections, nothing to do and, at least to start with, very dependent upon the good offices of the stranger with whom she is now living, the house becomes pretty dammed important.

But think of it this way: how does a newly arrived person build the necessities of life in a place as isolated as our hero has described? I have moved country, I did so from, in my opinion, a stronger basis than this woman will have. I can say with some certainty that trying to integrate into a new world when the opportunity for contact with that world is limited would be very tough.

All that our hero needs to do in order to make life much easier, and thus more likely to succeed is this: don't sell the bloody house right now! He has told us that he will not lose out in money terms by waiting. He wants to sell in order to set up the perfect prison for his recently imported bride. He has 90 days after importing her to get married. Take her up into the mountains as he proposes and I bet that she won't last long enough for nuptials to take place.

If he gives her the chance to assimilate to some degree, lets her make an informed choice about her future life,then they have a better chance of each getting what they want from the new situation they find themselves in. There's no loss to our hero from this. If it doesn't work out she goes home and he sells the house. If it works out then they will live together in the place that they choose together.

I do not see how any rational person could reasonably argue against waiting to sell his house.

As a person though, I'd be concerned about setting up home with somebody with the attitudes being displayed here. Perhaps the woman will accept any deal on the table because anything is better than what she is leaving - but that's hardly the best basis for a life together is it?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on August 31, 2018, 09:20:38 AM
Andrew,

You could be entirely correct. On the other side it could be California suburbia with clean air.

Personally I sort of doubt it is some isolated cabin with Grizzly Adams. It is not like we are talking about Carrol marrying Will.* Our hero is an University prof in California.

I sort of doubt that the 'cabin' is a prison, but rather a more relaxed and laid back life style to say LA or San Francisco. The challenge and does not matter where the location is, is to get Just a Dude's bride to assimilate into an foreign life style. It is akin to getting some one who has never before seen an ocean to becoming a competent sailor. A challenge yes ~ impossible no.

Av

* I am speaking of the author S. Lewis and the novel Main Street.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on August 31, 2018, 10:28:57 AM
It would be worth noting that Confederate who it seems is a native could better explain the cultural differences between 'living' in LA and in a 'cabin' in I assume Idllywild or nearby community.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: siberia on August 31, 2018, 02:17:02 PM
I just want to say that my husband was from NSK with a population of 1.5 million and when he moved to my city of 110,000 (suburb of Seattle) he never stopped calling it a village. L'viv has a population of 728,000 and I have never been there but I am sure it has a culture of people walking in the streets even at night, whereas my city does not have that, we drive everywhere. He never could get used to that. It was not just the driving it was the isolation of being in separate houses, not all together in concrete apartment buildings.

Also, just an example, when it was time to buy a new house I was searching and found what I though was a fabulous house! It even had a sauna!! Who loves a banya more than a Russian man? And it was on a lake!!  Yes, great! I showed it to him and  NOPE, "this is a retirement house, not a house for us". What was I thinking? Well, I was thinking it was perfect but not for someone who thought this would be moving to the dacha!! Even further from the city!!

I just offer this as a point of view for you to consider. You look at this thru the eyes of your experience, your cultural viewpoint. We all do. However, this does not translate!  I thought, well, my husband lived in a 2 room apartment with his parents, his grandma and his sister, this will be heaven, he will have room, land, etc! but NO, that is not what matters. The FSU person thinks of the lifestyle not the actual building.

I am not by any means telling you not to do what you are planning. I am seeing that you have a choice right now with where to live and I agree with others who say you should let her experience life here and input her ideas into your choice.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on August 31, 2018, 03:34:30 PM

I just offer this as a point of view for you to consider. You look at this thru the eyes of your experience, your cultural viewpoint. We all do. However, this does not translate!  I thought, well, my husband lived in a 2 room apartment with his parents, his grandma and his sister, this will be heaven, he will have room, land, etc! but NO, that is not what matters. The FSU person thinks of the lifestyle not the actual building.



Good point!

In fact all of us are looking through our own "cultural viewpoint". There is only one poster who sort of understands the needs and wishes of his partner. And he has met her.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on August 31, 2018, 03:34:40 PM
Andrew, Rosco and Siberia all make excellent points however I believe it’s crystal clear that justadude’s mind is made up. If these two really love each other they’ll make it work.

I can’t help but thinking though that as JAD reads these comments there’s a song playing in the background and here it is... :chuckle:


Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 01, 2018, 12:28:42 AM
Andrew, Rosco and Siberia all make excellent points however I believe it’s crystal clear that justadude’s mind is made up. If these two really love each other they’ll make it work.

I can’t help but thinking though that as JAD reads these comments there’s a song playing in the background and here it is... :chuckle:

Billy Joel looks so young! Was he married to Christie Brinkley then? That's a great song, but maybe not quite what I'm looking for.

Thank you siberia for your story. I suppose there is an even chance my dream girl will feel the same way. I think one of the undercurrents here is the notion that one must be certain that a marriage will last forever before one takes the plunge. Most marriages don't last forever, though, do they?

I think selling the house now is a wise move. I think the market has peaked in my area. Having no mortgage payment (I own the "cabin" outright and it has a second granny flat on the property that is a vacation rental) fits into my early retirement/career change plans.

I don't think my previous marriage of 16 years was a failure even though it didn't last forever. I wouldn't give up a day of the memories of my relationship with the Belarussian girl. That's not to say that there hasn't been pain. Then again, the first Ukrainian fiance that ended up institutionalized as a result of being engaged to me, I regret that one. My point is. Ah hell, I don't have a point.

I understand the comment that being honest is not really being honest when one doesn't have the ability to fully comprehend the information being shared.

I guess I'm just doing what I want to do. Do I have it all figured out? Nope! Will it last forever? I don't know. But what I'm doing seems like my best course of action.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 01, 2018, 12:32:40 AM
On a slightly lighter note, there is something I've been wanting to share about her that I think is really cute. When she names a list of things her voice does this tone change that is quite compelling. I don't think I can describe it. I don't know if it is a slavic thing, but I am going to try to encourage her to describe more lists because I like it so much.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 01, 2018, 12:36:00 AM
Also, I was recently having a conversation with God. I said, "God, why did you make her so sweet?" God said, "So you would love her"

I said, "God, why did you make her so pretty?" God said, "So you would love her"

I said, "God, why did you make her so sexy? God said, "So you would love her"

I said, "But God, why did you make her so illogical?" God said, "So she would love you!"
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on September 01, 2018, 03:07:33 AM
On the subject of Culture shock..

When I left the Uk for Transnistria it was a huge Culture shock!! I was ready for a new life in a totally different country, it was like being on another planet.. :ROFL:

The beer was 30p a pint

Bus into town 20p

Night out at a club for 2 $20.00

Gas bill each month $1

Electricity bill per month $0.50c

Christ!! It was such a shock..it nearly killed me :laugh:

BUT I LOVED IT..
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 01, 2018, 08:19:59 PM
Perhaps the naysayers are right. Maybe this won't work. There were tears during our video chat today. She had a positive blood test for a condition that I think is fairly common and minor. She said she slept all day because she was fatigued by this condition and that she has been lethargic lately because of this as well.

I think part of the problem is the stress of this visa/moving situation. My previous FSU fiance, as I have mentioned in the past, was institutionalized due to conditions induced (in my mind) by the stress of the situation. However, another common factor, me, cannot be overlooked as likely playing a role.

One of the problems in my marriage was my perception of the differences in effort put into the family's survival. She didn't work. I earned the money and fixed the cars and the house and shoveled the snow.

She was an amazing cook and super cute (and tiny) and a very loving mother but I felt like I put in 80% of the physical effort to make the family go.

You can say what you want about a man having no idea how much work it takes to run a household but I got up at 5 and she got up at 9. We went to bed at the same time. 2-3 nights a week I'd come home to a cold house and she would be at her sister's house hanging out with our daughter. I'd start a fire, go out and work on the cars, and make my own dinner later. Also, I saw how much she did when I was home during the summer.

One time she said, "I can't do as much as you". That hit home and made sense. I know I have standards for myself that would be unrealistic for others. For example. I run or bicycle in the rain or the snow, whether I'm sick or not. In fact, I think proceeding with my normal workout routine helps me get well sooner.

When I have a long day at work I can still go home and fix something or build something. I don't need to veg out. I show up at my night classes every time. I do the work. I get my papers done a week before they are due. I realize that this is a disorder and not all positive. In fact, I have tried and succeeded in reigning this in quite a bit. I'm writing this sitting in the jacuzzi (with the life of my $200 Chromebook hanging in the balance).

Even knowing that this isn't all good about me, I have trouble being sympathetic to others who can't maintain a pace that is at least in the ball park with me.

I'm just an ass. Maybe I'm unfit for a relationship and that's why I had to go half way around the world to find a girl.

In my defense, though, I never felt that way about the Belarussian girl. We were together for 18 months and lived together for 6 months. Although that may not have been long enough for these problems to have come up, I don't remember ever feeling that disparity I mentioned about my marriage. She worked full time and cooked and cleaned. And sewed clothes for her dogs.

If you read all that, thanks, you're a saint.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on September 01, 2018, 08:31:24 PM
Perhaps the naysayers are right. Maybe this won't work. There were tears during our video chat today. She had a positive blood test for a condition that I think is fairly common and minor. She said she slept all day because she was fatigued by this condition and that she has been lethargic lately because of this as well.

I think part of the problem is the stress of this visa/moving situation. My previous FSU fiance, as I have mentioned in the past, was institutionalized due to conditions induced (in my mind) by the stress of the situation. However, another common factor, me, cannot be overlooked as likely playing a role.

One of the problems in my marriage was my perception of the differences in effort put into the family's survival. She didn't work. I earned the money and fixed the cars and the house and shoveled the snow.

She was an amazing cook and super cute (and tiny) and a very loving mother but I felt like I put in 80% of the physical effort to make the family go.

You can say what you want about a man having no idea how much work it takes to run a household but I got up at 5 and she got up at 9. We went to bed at the same time. 2-3 nights a week I'd come home to a cold house and she would be at her sister's house hanging out with our daughter. I'd start a fire, go out and work on the cars, and make my own dinner later. Also, I saw how much she did when I was home during the summer.

One time she said, "I can't do as much as you". That hit home and made sense. I know I have standards for myself that would be unrealistic for others. For example. I run or bicycle in the rain or the snow, whether I'm sick or not. In fact, I think proceeding with my normal workout routine helps me get well sooner.

When I have a long day at work I can still go home and fix something or build something. I don't need to veg out. I show up at my night classes every time. I do the work. I get my papers done a week before they are due. I realize that this is a disorder and not all positive. In fact, I have tried and succeeded in reigning this in quite a bit. I'm writing this sitting in the jacuzzi (with the life of my $200 Chromebook hanging in the balance).

Even knowing that this isn't all good about me, I have trouble being sympathetic to others who can't maintain a pace that is at least in the ball park with me.

I'm just an ass. Maybe I'm unfit for a relationship and that's why I had to go half way around the world to find a girl.

In my defense, though, I never felt that way about the Belarussian girl. We were together for 18 months and lived together for 6 months. Although that may not have been long enough for these problems to have come up, I don't remember ever feeling that disparity I mentioned about my marriage. She worked full time and cooked and cleaned. And sewed clothes for her dogs.

If you read all that, thanks, you're a saint.


I'm not a saint however I think you're right that you have more energy and drive than most people. As I recall you were able to build a car from the ground up or something like that?  No I'm probably not going to go back and look for it, but I do recall you being a far better mechanic than most. I've saved thousands doing basic repairs and maintenance on my car but all basic like changing the spark plugs, distributor cap and spark plug wires.

You also built a really good looking closet which most could not do. I would need to hire someone and most would.

Your marriage doesn't sound fair but I suspect she was doing her best, it just didn't match up to your efforts.  And if she could cook that's better than the average AW today who can barely make a sandwich.

Don't worry take your time, it'll all work out however it's meant to. If you both put in a genuine effort I suspect it'll last a good long time.   :BEER:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on September 01, 2018, 08:41:01 PM
If your bride thinks she has found the perfect man, sorry you will disappoint her. On the other side if you think this is your perfect woman you are in for a surprise.

The reality to make a relationship 'work', and I assume, that is what you wish; than compromise and understandings the others needs and fear will be essential for success. Each person has there own personal rhythm, explaining your needs and desires is a requirement for a balanced relationship. But also understanding the other persons needs and desires is a prerequisite.

I would not beat your self up for water that has flowed over the dam, but I would learn from the mistakes.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: ?ManyQuestions? on September 01, 2018, 10:10:10 PM

My previous FSU fiance, as I have mentioned in the past, was institutionalized due to conditions induced (in my mind) by the stress of the situation. However, another common factor, me, cannot be overlooked as likely playing a role.



Sorry to hear that.  :(  Hopefully she is not in the kind of institution with forced psychiatry.

http://psychrights.org/force_of_law.htm (http://psychrights.org/force_of_law.htm)

https://www.madinamerica.com/2015/04/forced-psychiatry-torture/ (https://www.madinamerica.com/2015/04/forced-psychiatry-torture/)

If she has to take medication. There might be a different approach that does not require medication. 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/03/existential-therapy-shows-success-assisting-patients-withdrawing-psychiatric-drugs/ (https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/03/existential-therapy-shows-success-assisting-patients-withdrawing-psychiatric-drugs/)

^
The researchers also highlight that a person making an individual choice to participate in the program, and having ownership and agency in the process, is crucial to successful treatment.

 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on September 02, 2018, 04:44:45 AM
You said you were doing what you want to do. That's great, for you. Perhaps I am wrong but it seems to me that in a marriage it is more about what *we* want to do.

I now understand that this isn't about the cabin in the mountains but much more about rationalising the general direction of your life and relationship.

Don't be selfish. Whatever her reasons for leaving her home she is giving up much more than you. Indeed, from what you have told us, it is your intention to give up nothing in the expectation of a risk free reward. The economist in me knows that this won't work. Risk and reward tend to be balanced. Put nothing in - get nothing out.

From what I have read here, I believe that you would be well served by a careful examination of your attitude and motivation in this situation.  I'd be giving long thought to your compatibility with this woman given your admitted shortcomings.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on September 02, 2018, 06:31:50 AM
I know I have standards for myself that would be unrealistic for others. For example. I run or bicycle in the rain or the snow, whether I'm sick or not. In fact, I think proceeding with my normal workout routine helps me get well sooner.

When I have a long day at work I can still go home and fix something or build something. I don't need to veg out. I show up at my night classes every time. I do the work. I get my papers done a week before they are due. I realize that this is a disorder and not all positive. In fact, I have tried and succeeded in reigning this in quite a bit. I'm writing this sitting in the jacuzzi (with the life of my $200 Chromebook hanging in the balance).

Even knowing that this isn't all good about me, I have trouble being sympathetic to others who can't maintain a pace that is at least in the ball park with me.

I can relate to some of that and I dont see them as a negative traits. You simply need a woman who is similarly inclined and can keep up.

She had a positive blood test for a condition that I think is fairly common and minor. She said she slept all day because she was fatigued by this condition and that she has been lethargic lately because of this as well.

If it's something like Hepatitis, its rife in those countries but easily cured. But I've always found "sleepy girl syndrome" allegedly caused by ailments (real or perceived) tends to be a thing. Russian medicine is obsessed with blood tests and anything to do with blood often leads to dramatic declarations. Their medicine is intertwined with quackery, superstition and aged belief systems (cold drinks make you sick, etc.). It takes years for that stuff to fade away and be replaced by fact-based science and common sense.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on September 02, 2018, 08:29:25 AM
Manny is right. Within the realm of normal personality there's nothing to 'wrong' but in seeking a good relationship one seeks compatibility.

If this woman is of a non-compatible personality type then things will not go well (or at best easily)

Do you think that this woman is compatible with you, with the traits that you have, with the overlaid habits built over a lifetime?

Think of it this way, in a simplistic manner, if the behaviour patterns of this woman vex you now, as they seem to do, just how will you feel after a few months living together? Don't forget that whatever you feel, she feels the same; of course she also has fear, insecurity, doubt, on top of her normal personality.

So, ask yourself, given the givens about your personality and chosen lifestyle, are you the right man for this woman?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 03, 2018, 12:14:30 AM
I know I have standards for myself that would be unrealistic for others. For example. I run or bicycle in the rain or the snow, whether I'm sick or not. In fact, I think proceeding with my normal workout routine helps me get well sooner.

When I have a long day at work I can still go home and fix something or build something. I don't need to veg out. I show up at my night classes every time. I do the work. I get my papers done a week before they are due. I realize that this is a disorder and not all positive. In fact, I have tried and succeeded in reigning this in quite a bit. I'm writing this sitting in the jacuzzi (with the life of my $200 Chromebook hanging in the balance).

Even knowing that this isn't all good about me, I have trouble being sympathetic to others who can't maintain a pace that is at least in the ball park with me.

I can relate to some of that and I dont see them as a negative traits. You simply need a woman who is similarly inclined and can keep up.

She had a positive blood test for a condition that I think is fairly common and minor. She said she slept all day because she was fatigued by this condition and that she has been lethargic lately because of this as well.

If it's something like Hepatitis, its rife in those countries but easily cured. But I've always found "sleepy girl syndrome" allegedly caused by ailments (real or perceived) tends to be a thing. Russian medicine is obsessed with blood tests and anything to do with blood often leads to dramatic declarations. Their medicine is intertwined with quackery, superstition and aged belief systems (cold drinks make you sick, etc.). It takes years for that stuff to fade away and be replaced by fact-based science and common sense.

Thanks for the helpful input. That makes sense within what I've seen. She does have some beliefs in holistic medical ideas but I don't think it's too unusual and she is a big believer in simple healthy living. She likes to get exercise, primarily by walking. She says she goes to the gym but I think her commitment to that activity is affected by how she's feeling. i.e., I think she misses a few days per month at least. I think it must be tough to deal with that monthly cycle, and I think most women do skip their workouts around that time.

She eats healthy too. She doesn't smoke and drinks just a little. She is a good cook, but the vegetarian thing still looms of course. She cooked vegetarian for me while I was there, but who knows how that will play out long term.

Manny is right. Within the realm of normal personality there's nothing to 'wrong' but in seeking a good relationship one seeks compatibility.

If this woman is of a non-compatible personality type then things will not go well (or at best easily)

Do you think that this woman is compatible with you, with the traits that you have, with the overlaid habits built over a lifetime?

Think of it this way, in a simplistic manner, if the behaviour patterns of this woman vex you now, as they seem to do, just how will you feel after a few months living together? Don't forget that whatever you feel, she feels the same; of course she also has fear, insecurity, doubt, on top of her normal personality.

So, ask yourself, given the givens about your personality and chosen lifestyle, are you the right man for this woman?

Those are good questions and admittedly I'm too easily affected by the latest event. We video chatted today and she was much more put together which put me at ease a bit. After the call where she was crying I wrote her an encouraging email with some info I dug up. I think that helped a little but she does her own research and I didn't tell her anything she didn't already know. This girl owns her own apartment and has been on the same, professional job for 8 years.

Compared to K1 visa girl number one, she really has her act together. She has only told one or two close friends, and her immediate family about her plans with me. This may sound negative, but I see it as pragmatic. KVG1 burned through her $2500 savings as soon as we got engaged. This girl is maintaining her savings, her real estate holding, and her life. She is telling people about her crazy plan to marry an American on a need to know basis. I assume a big part of this is so that word doesn't get back to her employer. If so, I think this is quite responsible. Certainly part of that is probably because she isn't 100% sure it will happen. But how could she be?

When we've talked about her life here I tried to make it clear that I expect her to work. I didn't communicate very effectively though, as she thought I was saying I want her to work on day 2 of her arrival. I told her I think she could have a job within a year but she thinks it will take longer. I think, though, that she will be working within a month or two of when she legally can. I just think that's the most likely thing she'll do.

However, our geographical location, as mentioned by Andrew and others, poses real challenges to that. Then again, I think she wouldn't mind taking a retail or restaurant job, which there are plenty of within 7 minutes walking. She was fascinated with the wages my daughter, who works in a coffee shop for minimum wage, earns. I think she might enjoy doing a relatively low stress job for a while, until she gets a driver's license, as compared to the high stress professional career she has now.

Right now I can easily support us if she never works. But my plans include early retirement and a career change to something in which I might earn quite a bit less. Owning a house outright of course helps, but she might need to contribute a little to her own support.

Also, being the good guy and supporting my young wife 20 years ago didn't help me very much when the marriage ended and I had to pay half my income to alimony and child support. I don't want to make that mistake again.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: SL0413 on September 07, 2018, 12:47:02 PM
Hi JAD,

I have been catching up to your thread, reading what you and others wrote.

Regardless of living in the mountains or in the suburb, or about selling your house, the one thing that stood out for me is your talk of your plans, of living in the cabin, of retiring early, changing careers, etc.

It sounds like your soon to be wife is just a part of your plan, rather than someone who should be a part of shaping those plans...
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 08, 2018, 12:21:11 AM
Hi JAD,
It sounds like your soon to be wife is just a part of your plan, rather than someone who should be a part of shaping those plans...
Yes I think you are right. In fact, I think that has been more or less concluded by other RUA'ers and I don't think I've really been able to reason against that conclusion.

Over the last few days I thought we had met our undoing. She never really answered me if she could live without meat in our fridge, a question I had raised a couple weeks back. So I wrote her an email asking her about her thoughts. We had an email discussion over a couple of days and a video call today. She decided she could live without meat in the house.

One of the issues that came up was her feeling that I am controlling. I mentioned that my ex wife thought I was, and that I fear I still have a tendency to be that way and I don't like that about myself.

BTW, I don't get angry at/with women. I think if one does, it's because he's a victim. I'm not a victim of women, or people for that matter. At least that's the way I like to view myself. 

She has a big folder of documents ready to go to her visa interview. If what I hear from my texting buddy who is also processing a K1 visa for UA princess bride, that could happen as soon as next week, even though the official communication says it could be 2 months.

 I know a few of you think I'm totally wrong for this, or we are wrong for each other or I'm just wrong, all of which might be true. But there's an update anyway. Thanks for tuning in.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on September 08, 2018, 01:10:38 AM
Over the last few days I thought we had met our undoing. She never really answered me if she could live without meat in our fridge, a question I had raised a couple weeks back. So I wrote her an email asking her about her thoughts. We had an email discussion over a couple of days and a video call today. She decided she could live without meat in the house.

One of the issues that came up was her feeling that I am controlling. I mentioned that my ex wife thought I was, and that I fear I still have a tendency to be that way and I don't like that about myself.

I beg your pardon if I am over-simplifying or misunderstanding this situation, but I am currently under the impression that you are vegetarian and she is not, correct? Why can’t she have meat in the house for herself? If she desires to be vegetarian too, that’s great but it comes across here as though you are forcing her to abstain from eating meat. Either I am missing part of the equation or you are being too controlling.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on September 08, 2018, 03:06:46 AM
Over the last few days I thought we had met our undoing. She never really answered me if she could live without meat in our fridge, a question I had raised a couple weeks back. So I wrote her an email asking her about her thoughts. We had an email discussion over a couple of days and a video call today. She decided she could live without meat in the house.

One of the issues that came up was her feeling that I am controlling. I mentioned that my ex wife thought I was, and that I fear I still have a tendency to be that way and I don't like that about myself.

I beg your pardon if I am over-simplifying or misunderstanding this situation, but I am currently under the impression that you are vegetarian and she is not, correct? Why can’t she have meat in the house for herself? If she desires to be vegetarian too, that’s great but it comes across here as though you are forcing her to abstain from eating meat. Either I am missing part of the equation or you are being too controlling.

I think he’s forcing her to be vegetarian which isn’t normal for the average woman from over there.

I can see this poor woman eager for him to be at work so she can go get some meat at a sandwich shop and eat in secret while forming resentment at jad. Dealbreaker for her!?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on September 08, 2018, 03:55:34 AM
Remember what I wrote about creating a prison?

I bet some of you thought I was out of line or at least exaggerating?

How about now, today?

Still hold the same opinion?

Look mate, if she is already putting up with all this crap then there's only a few reasons why that might be:
1) She is desperate to escape from something and will agree to anything in order to escape an even worse predicament.

2) She is lying to you in order to attain a goal that does not include a lifetime in your handmade prison.

3) She thinks, mistakenly, that she change change you and thus the terms of her incarceration.

4) Perhaps she is also mentally ill and you have a talent for setting yourself up with such women.

I really do not see a more positive rationale.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on September 08, 2018, 05:22:52 AM
I like that justadude is being totally honest with himself and if I were he I'd not be paying too much attention to guys who are perennially single and have never taken a FSU W to live in the west ...





 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on September 08, 2018, 11:09:07 AM
Over the last few days I thought we had met our undoing. She never really answered me if she could live without meat in our fridge, a question I had raised a couple weeks back. So I wrote her an email asking her about her thoughts. We had an email discussion over a couple of days and a video call today. She decided she could live without meat in the house.

One of the issues that came up was her feeling that I am controlling. I mentioned that my ex wife thought I was, and that I fear I still have a tendency to be that way and I don't like that about myself.

I beg your pardon if I am over-simplifying or misunderstanding this situation, but I am currently under the impression that you are vegetarian and she is not, correct? Why can’t she have meat in the house for herself? If she desires to be vegetarian too, that’s great but it comes across here as though you are forcing her to abstain from eating meat. Either I am missing part of the equation or you are being too controlling.

I think he’s forcing her to be vegetarian which isn’t normal for the average woman from over there.

I can see this poor woman eager for him to be at work so she can go get some meat at a sandwich shop and eat in secret while forming resentment at jad. Dealbreaker for her!?

I have to agree with both Lord & Confed here. Why would anyone want to leave her relatively comfortable life and move across the globe and start over, to be a tiny part of a control freaks life?

Forcing someone to share your briefs is just wrong. I think you’re looking for a tick in the box rather than a life partner.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on September 08, 2018, 12:50:21 PM
While I have no idea of the motivation or character of Just a Dude's fiancée. I suspect that he is not forcing her to accept any beliefs or conditions. He seems to be level headed and logical, perhaps a bit too much.

Thinking back I wonder how JustMD is doing? There were far more 'warning' signs there and not hearing him crow makes me think things have gone south.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on September 08, 2018, 01:52:48 PM
Forcing someone to share your briefs is just wrong.

I'm with Rosco, Lord and the other chaps on this. It's fine to be a vegetablist yourself but you can't impose that on a non-vegetablist. More so if it's vegan or whoever those folks are that dont even eat fish or eggs or anything with animal products in. And if that is born of the whole animal rights thing, where do you stand on fur or leather shoes? Because she'll have a fur and will want to wear it, and she'll not welcome the idea of plastic shoes either. If you are a "fur is murder" guy, this may be quite an imposition for her.

And aren't these the kind of things one discusses early on? Don't we all run our "non negotiables" up the flagpole way before getting into fiancee visas? I'd like to think living meat-free in the forest would be something I'd mention I wanted to do early on in case it didn't wash. More so if it involved plastic shoes, no eggs and no fur for a Russian bint in winter.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 08, 2018, 04:33:34 PM
An interesting question might be, “What is the point of this discussion?”. If it is to prove who is the smartest, it’s defiantly not me!

I think primarily it should be for me to share my experiences. Then later others with similar interests can read about what I did and see how it turned out.

I don’t consider myself to be a militant vegetarian. And I realize I’m the weird one. I have found my diet to be more of a detriment in interacting with members of the opposite sex. I tried to eat some fish 4 years ago but I couldn’t do it. I really don’t like being around it. If I say more,I think I’ll start to sound militant. I suggested that she eat meat when we go out and that she keep meat in the fridge if our vacation rental which is 30 feet away on our property. I’ll also admit that I’m a hypocrite. I wear leather belts, shoes and leather gloves when I weld. I like to think that I’m not responsible for animals dying, because they kill cows for meat and leather is a byproduct. Am I correct in this? But I can’t justify my position entirely. If you want to find holes in my logic you won’t have to work too hard.  But I know I don’t like seeing raw meat and I don’t want it in my house.

As to mentioning this deal breaker earlier, I could have done better. I mentioned it 3 times over the last year, dating back at least 10 months. She avoided the issue but I finally got it out in the open. As far as living with Sasquatch, I could have done better. I knew I wanted to live in a smaller town by the coast eventually. We talked about that a few months ago.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: SL0413 on September 08, 2018, 05:13:40 PM
I have a female friend who became vegetarian when she moved in with her fiance.  To her it wasn't too much a change because she didn't eat meat that often to begin with, and he did all of the cooking.

But she chose the town they were going to live in (he was in the process of selling his condo and buying a house) with the related school district she wanted for her son, picked the interior furnishings and decorations, and other things.

I don't think the location of the cabin, being vegetarian, or other details are of major concern compared to the equality of the decision making process:


Country choice - JAD
Town choice - JAD
House choice - JAD
Diet choice - JAD
Career choice - JAD
Future plans (early retirement, career change) - JAD
Policy of no shoes in the house - Wife

I don't see much of a balance here...
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 08, 2018, 05:29:23 PM


Country choice - JAD
Town choice - JAD
House choice - JAD
Diet choice - JAD
Career choice - JAD
Future plans (early retirement, career change) - JAD
Policy of no shoes in the house - Wife

I don't see much of a balance here...

Are you of the opinion that the husband and wife should  shared decision-making equally? If so, how did you reach that conclusion? I don’t think women are attracted to a man who doesn’t make most of the decisions.  I mean, shared decision-making sounds good on paper. But I don’t think it’s necessarily natural or the best for a male-female relationship. That doesn’t mean she shouldn’t make any, nor does it mean we are anywhere close on the ideal balance.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 08, 2018, 06:09:44 PM
1) She is desperate to escape from something and will agree to anything in order to escape an even worse predicament.

2) She is lying to you in order to attain a goal that does not include a lifetime in your handmade prison.

3) She thinks, mistakenly, that she change change you and thus the terms of her incarceration.

4) Perhaps she is also mentally ill and you have a talent for setting yourself up with such women.

Interesting. I don’t think any of those come very close to summarizing her perspective. Then again, #4 is somewhat compelling, given that it implies a woman of sound mind wouldn’t be attracted to me)

In fact, given the differences in the way men and women think, I doubt her feelings/understanding of the situation/views on the merits of this venture, would be quantifiable. She’s very female and alluring and sweet and smart.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on September 08, 2018, 07:58:51 PM
As to mentioning this deal breaker earlier, I could have done better. I mentioned it 3 times over the last year, dating back at least 10 months. She avoided the issue but I finally got it out in the open.


You mentioned it 3 times but admit you could've done better? Did you hold back on something?

When communicating with women, it's important a guy discloses certain beliefs he holds dear which could pertain to being on the right or left of politics, religion, abortion and other hot topic issues. If a woman discloses her beliefs and it's a deal breaker, a guy shouldn't visit her.

You knew most the women you communicated with eat meat and you knew you do not want meat in the house. This should be disclosed before you visit any woman.

We must consume life to live. To me a cucumber is as important as a cow. They both are life and I must consume life to live. Consuming life isn't evil. It's about survival and survival is a good thing.

Maybe you value a cow more than a cucumber? But your fiancée doesn't share that belief. Your fiancée should've said goodbye to you after you mentioned she can't have meat in the house. Doesn't mean you're a bad guy but it's an extreme she will not like. It will affect your marriage and increase the chances of it's demise. I've had women wanting to marry me but I wouldn't marry them if I see a huge difference between us. Even though they say they can handle it. I know better. Best to find someone like myself than change a person. Breaking up is best for the both of us.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 08, 2018, 09:53:24 PM
I’m convinced. Stopping at McDonald’s to get a hamburger ???? now????
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 08, 2018, 10:02:47 PM
What If you met a pretty Ukrainian girl at the end of a seven weeks stay in Ukraine, and went out with her a few times just for fun, thinking you’d  probably never see her again? But then later you couldn’t stop thinking about her and decided you might see if it could work out between the two of you, what would you do?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 08, 2018, 10:03:46 PM
 Probably not what I did. ☹️
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on September 09, 2018, 02:59:45 AM
Ok so all the chat has been going on for long enough surely now?

So exactly what date does she arrive in the US?

Then everyone can just wait 90 days to see what happens..easy really..
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on September 09, 2018, 09:54:39 AM
I think that somebody has been reading too many mail order bride propaganda pieces. Like many other guys 'of a certain type' he has found those pieces to suit his fantasies. Of course that's why those propaganda pieces were written - to inveigle people into spending money on a fantasy.

To look sensibly at the proposition that Ukrainian women are dependent and happy to have their lives decided by others it is worth considering the type of person willing, for whatever reason, to cut themselves away from family, friends, work, culture - everything. Is such a person likely to have a personality profile that demonstrates the traits that Justadude seeks?

I have to say that I think he is wrong. For sure there are people happy to be dependent on others and to have their choices made for them. I know some of them.
I don't know any of that sort of person who has chosen to emigrate, permanently, to an unknown environment.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on September 09, 2018, 10:53:41 AM
I think that somebody has been reading too many mail order bride propaganda pieces. Like many other guys 'of a certain type' he has found those pieces to suit his fantasies. Of course that's why those propaganda pieces were written - to inveigle people into spending money on a fantasy.

To look sensibly at the proposition that Ukrainian women are dependent and happy to have their lives decided by others it is worth considering the type of person willing, for whatever reason, to cut themselves away from family, friends, work, culture - everything. Is such a person likely to have a personality profile that demonstrates the traits that Justadude seeks?

I have to say that I think he is wrong. For sure there are people happy to be dependent on others and to have their choices made for them. I know some of them.
I don't know any of that sort of person who has chosen to emigrate, permanently, to an unknown environment.

All three of the interests of Just a Dude were met outside of 'traditional' mail order brides sites.

There are numerous folk who escape or 'emigrate' to an unknown environment to find what they hope and expect is a better life.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on September 09, 2018, 11:24:21 AM
I think that somebody has been reading too many mail order bride propaganda pieces. Like many other guys 'of a certain type' he has found those pieces to suit his fantasies. Of course that's why those propaganda pieces were written - to inveigle people into spending money on a fantasy.

To look sensibly at the proposition that Ukrainian women are dependent and happy to have their lives decided by others it is worth considering the type of person willing, for whatever reason, to cut themselves away from family, friends, work, culture - everything. Is such a person likely to have a personality profile that demonstrates the traits that Justadude seeks?

I have to say that I think he is wrong. For sure there are people happy to be dependent on others and to have their choices made for them. I know some of them.
I don't know any of that sort of person who has chosen to emigrate, permanently, to an unknown environment.

All three of the interests of Just a Dude were met outside of 'traditional' mail order brides sites.

There are numerous folk who escape or 'emigrate' to an unknown environment to find what they hope and expect is a better life.


Only a few find a better life.. you don't hear all the stories of women returning home after being disappointed ..I hear and see many. and the situation is worse now..

20 years ago most guys wanting a FSU women needed at least some cash and home to live in..there was no internet sites and trips/tours and communication was not so
cheap..
Today any "Tome dick or harry" can go online and find (Or try to find) a washer up/cleaner , cheap flights! AND don't forget Ukraine is visa free for all the tight wads who don't want the extra expense of a visa to Russia..

Just check out the guy from the UK who invited his Russian bride .. I think she nearly died when she saw his home.. :laugh:


My wife spots every thing.. take a close look at the second Uk guy when he's on his laptop .. have a good look at the KEY PAD...yuck!! :sick0012:

You think a women wants to live with a filthy guy like that...


Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Mr strange on September 09, 2018, 12:59:48 PM
To be fair with that UK guy she was already hoping to flunk the interview ( she admidts that)for the visa prior to go to UK and another man was also supporting her. So no surprice 2 days is enough when she is just testing the waters and a few main points makes the decision.

Still filthy house no were to go and the pints at pub is hardly a great thing for any girl. Plus lack of proper English and going somwhere in life.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on September 09, 2018, 05:10:47 PM
It doesn't matter how he met the woman. The point is that our hero is looking fir a woman willing to delegate decision making to him and thus give up her independence.

Does any rational person honestly think that this is this type of woman is likely to be independent enough, enough of a decision taker, to be likely to want to move countries to live with a stranger?

The picture the guy sketches of 'Ukraine women' is a good match for clichéd propaganda about these women aimed at guys like this one.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 09, 2018, 06:46:49 PM
 I Think I can count on one finger the number of times I’ve agreed with Steve))
 But I don’t think the conversation is really moving along much at this point.
I do think I need to apologize to some of the other members though. It must be frustrating when you’re trying to help somebody and they can’t understand what you’re trying to say or are being obstinate
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on September 09, 2018, 11:41:23 PM
Just..

My partner is 'mostly' a Vegan .. if that's possible... she will occasionally - flip and devour Lamb I've grilled as if she hasn't eaten for weeks - think it much be a hormonal or menopausal thing .... BIZARRE ..

She doesn't give a ... what I put in the fridge ... she might just move it to a different place IN the fridge..

The only time we have awkward moments is at restaurants,  as rarely - nothing on the menu suits and after a while we go to the ones that allow her to bring her own food - raw cabbage, carrots, etc., ( no cooking / oils, please  - it 'kills' the vitamins ' )

Living with a Vegan - even if not constant - takes some getting used to - and I adore her for not trying to change my eating habits




Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on September 10, 2018, 04:21:49 AM
What date does she arrive in the USA?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on September 10, 2018, 11:54:06 AM
The only time we have awkward moments is at restaurants,  as rarely - nothing on the menu suits and after a while we go to the ones that allow her to bring her own food - raw cabbage, carrots, etc., ( no cooking / oils, please  - it 'kills' the vitamins ' )

Living with a Vegan - even if not constant - takes some getting used to - and I adore her for not trying to change my eating habits

Why would you go to a restaurant and ask to bring your own food? Why not just stay at home and nibble the leaves?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on September 10, 2018, 11:58:31 AM
But I don’t think the conversation is really moving along much at this point.

Some of this stuff might have been better discussed earlier on, but as it is, you are throwing the dice and trying. Many never get on the plane even.

I do think I need to apologize to some of the other members though. It must be frustrating when you’re trying to help somebody and they can’t understand what you’re trying to say or are being obstinate

Nothing to apologise for.

our hero is looking for a woman willing to delegate decision making to him and thus give up her independence.

Does any rational person honestly think that this is this type of woman is likely to be independent enough, enough of a decision taker, to be likely to want to move countries to live with a stranger?

I have actually known several women who have arrived here and have chosen to become essentially a blank page waiting to be written on. I've seen that in action more than once.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on September 10, 2018, 12:16:12 PM

Why would you go to a restaurant and ask to bring your own food? Why not just stay at home and nibble the leaves?

Because *I* want to eat 'normal' food and some restaurants are happy to have the biz ? ..
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on September 10, 2018, 12:25:09 PM
Manny, let us hope for the happiness of Justadude and his inamorata that she is willing and happy to be a tabula rasa upon which Justadude can set his mark.

I am fully aware that every case has exceptions, but there's a reason why they are exceptions rather than the rule.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on September 10, 2018, 06:24:26 PM
I think that somebody has been reading too many mail order bride propaganda pieces. Like many other guys 'of a certain type' he has found those pieces to suit his fantasies. Of course that's why those propaganda pieces were written - to inveigle people into spending money on a fantasy.

To look sensibly at the proposition that Ukrainian women are dependent and happy to have their lives decided by others it is worth considering the type of person willing, for whatever reason, to cut themselves away from family, friends, work, culture - everything. Is such a person likely to have a personality profile that demonstrates the traits that Justadude seeks?

I have to say that I think he is wrong. For sure there are people happy to be dependent on others and to have their choices made for them. I know some of them.
I don't know any of that sort of person who has chosen to emigrate, permanently, to an unknown environment.

All three of the interests of Just a Dude were met outside of 'traditional' mail order brides sites.

There are numerous folk who escape or 'emigrate' to an unknown environment to find what they hope and expect is a better life.


I met a foreign lady who married a guy living in the USA and she appeared "withdrawn" during my visit.  I don't think she knew hardly any English and was mostly a housekeeper and mother of the children.  She would appear to be totally dependent on the husband and his relatives.

I have a coworker who married a guy who is a vegetarian.  She has to cook meat dishes for her kids and herself and other dishes for her husband.  Her boys are in their 20s, so the marriage has lasted for over 20 years.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 11, 2018, 12:03:50 AM
What date does she arrive in the USA?
I haven’t bought a plane ticket yet, but her consulate interview will likely occur sometime around September 27 so I’m thinking first week of October
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 11, 2018, 12:05:22 AM
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 12, 2018, 09:44:04 PM
I am worried that maybe I am making a mistake. I have been waiting for almost a year and now that I can see the finish line I just don’t know. Maybe I don’t have what it takes. How can I take such a risk with all this uncertainty?

Also, I was thinking about something I wrote before. I think a woman wants a man to make decisions if she trusts that he is considering her needs when so doing. I don’t exhibit that all the time
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on September 12, 2018, 10:19:02 PM
I am worried that maybe I am making a mistake. I have been waiting for almost a year and now that I can see the finish line I just don’t know. Maybe I don’t have what it takes. How can I take such a risk with all this uncertainty?


One of the biggest decisions in life is marriage and you have doubts if you should do this after a year. This is not good for you or her. Now she's got a k-1 interview coming in a few weeks. Now you're proceeding towards marriage which should be a good thing but it sounds like the hole you're digging is getting bigger.

Also, I was thinking about something I wrote before. I think a woman wants a man to make decisions if she trusts that he is considering her needs when so doing. I don’t exhibit that all the time

Women tend to marry older, more mature men since they tend to know what they are doing and make good decisions. If you get involved with an FSU woman and she finds out you don't know what you're doing, she'll take over and you could be in for a rough ride. When I dated women, I prefer to be respected over being liked. With respect a woman can begin to love. Does your fiancée respect you?

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on September 13, 2018, 03:41:16 AM
Some women might want some men to make their decisions for them as long as they trust the guy.

That you think there is some kind of valid generalisation that you can draw and rely upon should tell you, a knowledge worker who might be expected to be capable of a modicum of objective analysis, that something is very wrong with your thinking and thus planning.

I'd not say that you shouldn't proceed but I would say that you need to reevaluate your own situation, your expectations, and your plans to reach some kind of better understanding of your path.

That might require a delay in importing this woman and a lot more time together so that you can reach an understanding of how this woman works rather than relying upon a mental model that you have created of her; a model that I think you are now starting to understand is woefully inadequate.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 13, 2018, 10:52:12 AM
I guess I’m not really worried about not knowing her well enough. Maybe I don’t, but that thought doesn’t occupy much of my energy. I’m more worried about how well I DO know myself.

I actually started to think about how I was going to word/deliver the Dear Natasha letter.

Then I think maybe it’s just plain old cold feet. I had cold feet in 1993 and came really close to bailing a couple weeks before the wedding. But that lasted 16 years, most of them good, and there was a wonderful daughter that resulted from that Union.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on September 13, 2018, 11:08:38 AM
I am worried that maybe I am making a mistake. I have been waiting for almost a year and now that I can see the finish line I just don’t know. Maybe I don’t have what it takes. How can I take such a risk with all this uncertainty?


One of the biggest decisions in life is marriage and you have doubts if you should do this after a year. This is not good for you or her. Now she's got a k-1 interview coming in a few weeks. Now you're proceeding towards marriage which should be a good thing but it sounds like the hole you're digging is getting bigger.

Also, I was thinking about something I wrote before. I think a woman wants a man to make decisions if she trusts that he is considering her needs when so doing. I don’t exhibit that all the time

Women tend to marry older, more mature men since they tend to know what they are doing and make good decisions. If you get involved with an FSU woman and she finds out you don't know what you're doing, she'll take over and you could be in for a rough ride. When I dated women, I prefer to be respected over being liked. With respect a woman can begin to love. Does your fiancée respect you?

Women tend to marry older, more mature men since they tend to know what they are doing and make good decisions. If you get involved with an FSU woman and she finds out you don't know what you're doing, she'll take over and you could be in for a rough ride. When I dated women, I prefer to be respected over being liked. With respect a woman can begin to love. Does your fiancée respect you?

What do you mean they "Tend to marry older men" How old is that then can you give a few examples? And are you talking about 20 years ago or the present time?

"respect" What do you mean respect you ? That sound more like "worship you" If I was a women and any guy made it clear like you are he that he expects to be "Respected" I would run a mile..
Expecting to be respected is something you don't even need to bring into any conversation .. the guy who would usually say he expects to be "Respected" to me it means this guy is the type who will say "Leave your keys and cards on the table on your way out"




Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on September 13, 2018, 12:01:20 PM
I am worried that maybe I am making a mistake. I have been waiting for almost a year and now that I can see the finish line I just don’t know. Maybe I don’t have what it takes. How can I take such a risk with all this uncertainty?


One of the biggest decisions in life is marriage and you have doubts if you should do this after a year. This is not good for you or her. Now she's got a k-1 interview coming in a few weeks. Now you're proceeding towards marriage which should be a good thing but it sounds like the hole you're digging is getting bigger.

Also, I was thinking about something I wrote before. I think a woman wants a man to make decisions if she trusts that he is considering her needs when so doing. I don’t exhibit that all the time

Women tend to marry older, more mature men since they tend to know what they are doing and make good decisions. If you get involved with an FSU woman and she finds out you don't know what you're doing, she'll take over and you could be in for a rough ride. When I dated women, I prefer to be respected over being liked. With respect a woman can begin to love. Does your fiancée respect you?

Women tend to marry older, more mature men since they tend to know what they are doing and make good decisions. If you get involved with an FSU woman and she finds out you don't know what you're doing, she'll take over and you could be in for a rough ride. When I dated women, I prefer to be respected over being liked. With respect a woman can begin to love. Does your fiancée respect you?

What do you mean they "Tend to marry older men" How old is that then can you give a few examples? And are you talking about 20 years ago or the present time?

"respect" What do you mean respect you ? That sound more like "worship you" If I was a women and any guy made it clear like you are he that he expects to be "Respected" I would run a mile..
Expecting to be respected is something you don't even need to bring into any conversation .. the guy who would usually say he expects to be "Respected" to me it means this guy is the type who will say "Leave your keys and cards on the table on your way out"

I took some liberty n read the other site, billy bob got hisself a real young’n trophy 

:ROFL:     :ROFL:       :ROFL:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on September 13, 2018, 12:15:05 PM
You probably know yourself quite well. You have been pretty forthcoming on the topic. You need to be thinking about the target of your attentions and how she will interface with you, your needs and the constraints that she will face if she is to, successfully, become part of your scheme.

If you like the woman, based upon what you know, then the next step is to get to know each other better. Given the purpose of the K1 visa, that opportunity does not present itself after she arrives in the USA but should be done prior to that event.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on September 13, 2018, 12:34:04 PM
Given the purpose of the K1 visa, that opportunity does not present itself after she arrives in the USA but should be done prior to that event.

Don't they have 12 months to marry on a K1? He can suck it and see.

If not, she'll go home. For 6-9 months they'll play happy vegetablist family in the woods and see if a future is looking likely. If so, she'll be happily eating her curds and whey by then. If not she'll go home to have a steak and wear her fur.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on September 13, 2018, 12:39:37 PM
Manny, that's not correct. They have 90 days in which to get married. The purpose of the visa is to enable a foreigner to enter the country for the purpose of marriage. It is not a trial period. That's why I wrote as I did.

I remember that in the days when this process was more common on this forum the idea that it was a period to get to know each other was a very common misconception.

The purpose means that the woman (in this instance, is expected to have made arrangements for a life in the USA, not an extended vacation.

Returning to the home country is obviously not so easy, particularly when the country is in dire economic straits. Not so easy to just drop back and pick up life after several months away.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: yankee on September 13, 2018, 12:46:20 PM
Manny, that's not correct. They have 90 days in which to get married. The purpose of the visa is to enable a foreigner to enter the country for the purpose of marriage. It is not a trial period. That's why I wrote as I did.

I remember that in the days when this process was more common on this forum the idea that it was a period to get to know each other was a very common misconception.

The purpose means that the woman (in this instance, is expected to have made arrangements for a life in the USA, not an extended vacation.

Returning to the home country is obviously not so easy, particularly when the country is in dire economic straits. Not so easy to just drop back and pick up life after several months away.

Before Irina and I got married we dated for a little over 3 years.  The summer before we got married she got a tourist visa and spent the whole summer with me in the US to see if she would like it or not.  She also returned for the following Christmas.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on September 13, 2018, 01:27:15 PM
Yankee, perhaps Justadude and his lady friend would be well served by following the model that you and your wife followed.

It'd enable both of them to know how well they were a match for each other in practical and emotional terms.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on September 13, 2018, 01:31:37 PM
Manny, that's not correct. They have 90 days in which to get married.

My bad, I should have checked.

As you note, in years gone by the Septics all used them as suck it and see visas. Despite that not being their purpose.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on September 13, 2018, 01:35:13 PM
I am worried that maybe I am making a mistake. I have been waiting for almost a year and now that I can see the finish line I just don’t know. Maybe I don’t have what it takes. How can I take such a risk with all this uncertainty?


One of the biggest decisions in life is marriage and you have doubts if you should do this after a year. This is not good for you or her. Now she's got a k-1 interview coming in a few weeks. Now you're proceeding towards marriage which should be a good thing but it sounds like the hole you're digging is getting bigger.

Also, I was thinking about something I wrote before. I think a woman wants a man to make decisions if she trusts that he is considering her needs when so doing. I don’t exhibit that all the time

Women tend to marry older, more mature men since they tend to know what they are doing and make good decisions. If you get involved with an FSU woman and she finds out you don't know what you're doing, she'll take over and you could be in for a rough ride. When I dated women, I prefer to be respected over being liked. With respect a woman can begin to love. Does your fiancée respect you?

Women tend to marry older, more mature men since they tend to know what they are doing and make good decisions. If you get involved with an FSU woman and she finds out you don't know what you're doing, she'll take over and you could be in for a rough ride. When I dated women, I prefer to be respected over being liked. With respect a woman can begin to love. Does your fiancée respect you?

What do you mean they "Tend to marry older men" How old is that then can you give a few examples? And are you talking about 20 years ago or the present time?

"respect" What do you mean respect you ? That sound more like "worship you" If I was a women and any guy made it clear like you are he that he expects to be "Respected" I would run a mile..
Expecting to be respected is something you don't even need to bring into any conversation .. the guy who would usually say he expects to be "Respected" to me it means this guy is the type who will say "Leave your keys and cards on the table on your way out"

I took some liberty n read the other site, billy bob got hisself a real young’n trophy 

:ROFL:     :ROFL:       :ROFL:


Poor girl...
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on September 13, 2018, 03:29:44 PM
Some used the K1 in that way, particularly the one week wonders who hoped to shortcut the whole getting to know each other thing. I don't recall it being very successful in the longer term.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on September 13, 2018, 05:10:03 PM
I am worried that maybe I am making a mistake. I have been waiting for almost a year and now that I can see the finish line I just don’t know. Maybe I don’t have what it takes. How can I take such a risk with all this uncertainty?

Also, I was thinking about something I wrote before. I think a woman wants a man to make decisions if she trusts that he is considering her needs when so doing. I don’t exhibit that all the time

Uncertainty is usually not a good thing when trying to go through with the commitment.  When you don't feel confident about the relationship, it may not turn out well.  For dating someone locally, if it turns out bad, the couple can go their separate ways more easier than for when one person in the marriage is not native to the locale.  Hopefully, you can avoid ending up with having to read a book like this.

http://www.nolotech.com/divorce-books/how-to-do-your-own-divorce-in-california/
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on September 13, 2018, 05:15:10 PM
Manny, that's not correct. They have 90 days in which to get married. The purpose of the visa is to enable a foreigner to enter the country for the purpose of marriage. It is not a trial period. That's why I wrote as I did.

I remember that in the days when this process was more common on this forum the idea that it was a period to get to know each other was a very common misconception.

The purpose means that the woman (in this instance, is expected to have made arrangements for a life in the USA, not an extended vacation.

Returning to the home country is obviously not so easy, particularly when the country is in dire economic straits. Not so easy to just drop back and pick up life after several months away.

Before Irina and I got married we dated for a little over 3 years.  The summer before we got married she got a tourist visa and spent the whole summer with me in the US to see if she would like it or not.  She also returned for the following Christmas.

I think this option is limited to those foreigners who have an extensive foreign travel history, wealthy, or are involved in the travel industry.  For the mundane majority who live in an economically depressed region, getting a tourist visa is not that easy.  Another alternative is to move to another country whose residents do not require a visa to the US.

Note that the K-1 visa requires that the couple met with each other.  It implies that they are engaged ("will you marry me?") when the petition is filed.  You are given a 90 day period to decide to go through with the marriage or not.  One of the major problems with this provision is that the petition beneficiary may be away from the native country for up to 3 months.  Most employers will not approve such a long term of absence and will terminate your employment should you decide to go on your "vacation".
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on September 13, 2018, 06:18:00 PM
Poor girl...


If I wasn't married, the insult would be I couldn't catch a woman. Maybe if I were a conspiracy theorist, you'd like me better but I prefer guys like you not to like me. Trying to start a fight in someone's trip report thread. Classy move.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Omega1982 on September 13, 2018, 07:05:08 PM
What does she plan to do with the flat in Ukraine if she comes to the USA? 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 13, 2018, 10:44:01 PM
What does she plan to do with the flat in Ukraine if she comes to the USA?
I think we talked about it along time ago but she never really said what she plans to do with it. I think she will hang onto it and let her brother manage it and maybe give the  rent money to her parents.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 13, 2018, 10:47:23 PM
 I’m not really in the mindset where I would wait any longer. It’s either now or never the way I see it.

 I’m thinking I should probably pull the plug on this thing.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 13, 2018, 10:53:13 PM
 I suppose I could still give her the option of coming over and treating it like a tourist visa. I mean we put this much effort into it, if she still wanted to do it, why wouldn’t I let her ?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 13, 2018, 11:02:55 PM
She’s probably invested a month’s salary in this so I guess I’d send her that much
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on September 13, 2018, 11:08:08 PM
I suppose I could still give her the option of coming over and treating it like a tourist visa. I mean we put this much effort into it, if she still wanted to do it, why wouldn’t I let her ?

Do you trust her? If she files a domestic violence report on you even if you're not married and on day one, she gets a green card and you get a DV record for life.

Chances are it won't happen but even if she's a good girl at first, once she learns you were never sure about marriage, she may get really pissed.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Bruce Lee on September 14, 2018, 12:17:44 AM
She’s probably invested a month’s salary in this so I guess I’d send her that much
Wow :o
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on September 14, 2018, 01:47:42 AM
Billy has a point. Here's a thing to know. For many women the object of the exercise is emigration. The vehicle is marriage. That's not to say that marriages formed in this manner are no good, they can be as long as both parties enable it to be so.

The problem comes when the guy starts to burble to his migrant fiancée or wife that it is time she went back home to her mud city in Ukraine. At that point the serious migrant will look at alternative ways to stay in the Land of the Free. A 30 second search on Yandex will tell her where to self administer the black eye and who to tell about it.

Good luck with that! At least one forum poster here knows something about how the 'alternate' ways to stay in the US plays out.

Honesty with your counterpart.
Knowledge about each other.
Confidence in the process.
-Those are your best shields against future problems. But, of course, that's true of any relationship involving marriage.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on September 14, 2018, 06:36:13 AM
I believe with the first woman he meet in Ukraine he informed her that he discussed things on a forum. I sort of think the same is true in this case. In no way has he identified her as others have done on this forum.

JustaDude has shown self doubt before and I suspect we are seeing this again. There is nothing wrong with this. I would say proceed. But a relationship is both leadership with the goals and flexibility with the means.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on September 14, 2018, 06:55:53 AM
I am worried that maybe I am making a mistake. I have been waiting for almost a year and now that I can see the finish line I just don’t know. Maybe I don’t have what it takes. How can I take such a risk with all this uncertainty?

Also, I was thinking about something I wrote before. I think a woman wants a man to make decisions if she trusts that he is considering her needs when so doing. I don’t exhibit that all the time

To be fair, many women admire thoughtful, decisive, proactive and confident men. This doesn’t mean they want you to make every decision for them and if you’re a control freak, it’ll be a major turn off.

There’s a big difference here and any life partner would appreciate being included in large joint decisions. This isn’t the same as her saying I don’t know what cafe to go to, and you saying ok we’ll go here.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 14, 2018, 08:17:55 AM
That happened to an RUA member as I recall? I suppose anything is possible but  I dont entertain thoughts like that. I think it’s because I don’t have a victim mentality. I wouldn’t use the 0.01% chance of  that happening as part of my decision making process.  I don’t think I’ve ever been with a woman I don’t trust.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: yankee on September 14, 2018, 08:30:46 AM
Manny, that's not correct. They have 90 days in which to get married. The purpose of the visa is to enable a foreigner to enter the country for the purpose of marriage. It is not a trial period. That's why I wrote as I did.

I remember that in the days when this process was more common on this forum the idea that it was a period to get to know each other was a very common misconception.

The purpose means that the woman (in this instance, is expected to have made arrangements for a life in the USA, not an extended vacation.

Returning to the home country is obviously not so easy, particularly when the country is in dire economic straits. Not so easy to just drop back and pick up life after several months away.

Before Irina and I got married we dated for a little over 3 years.  The summer before we got married she got a tourist visa and spent the whole summer with me in the US to see if she would like it or not.  She also returned for the following Christmas.

I think this option is limited to those foreigners who have an extensive foreign travel history, wealthy, or are involved in the travel industry.  For the mundane majority who live in an economically depressed region, getting a tourist visa is not that easy.  Another alternative is to move to another country whose residents do not require a visa to the US.

Note that the K-1 visa requires that the couple met with each other.  It implies that they are engaged ("will you marry me?") when the petition is filed.  You are given a 90 day period to decide to go through with the marriage or not.  One of the major problems with this provision is that the petition beneficiary may be away from the native country for up to 3 months.  Most employers will not approve such a long term of absence and will terminate your employment should you decide to go on your "vacation".

For the record I am not wealthy.  I worked in the defense industry.  I have done a lot of foreign travel but that is it.  My wife was an educator and had her summers off so she was able to take the time to spend 3 months in the USA.  When she did this I only took a total of three weeks vacation.  So most of the time I went to work every day.  When we got married she was 50 and I was 60.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on September 14, 2018, 05:17:11 PM
Manny, that's not correct. They have 90 days in which to get married. The purpose of the visa is to enable a foreigner to enter the country for the purpose of marriage. It is not a trial period. That's why I wrote as I did.

I remember that in the days when this process was more common on this forum the idea that it was a period to get to know each other was a very common misconception.

The purpose means that the woman (in this instance, is expected to have made arrangements for a life in the USA, not an extended vacation.

Returning to the home country is obviously not so easy, particularly when the country is in dire economic straits. Not so easy to just drop back and pick up life after several months away.

Before Irina and I got married we dated for a little over 3 years.  The summer before we got married she got a tourist visa and spent the whole summer with me in the US to see if she would like it or not.  She also returned for the following Christmas.

I think this option is limited to those foreigners who have an extensive foreign travel history, wealthy, or are involved in the travel industry.  For the mundane majority who live in an economically depressed region, getting a tourist visa is not that easy.  Another alternative is to move to another country whose residents do not require a visa to the US.

Note that the K-1 visa requires that the couple met with each other.  It implies that they are engaged ("will you marry me?") when the petition is filed.  You are given a 90 day period to decide to go through with the marriage or not.  One of the major problems with this provision is that the petition beneficiary may be away from the native country for up to 3 months.  Most employers will not approve such a long term of absence and will terminate your employment should you decide to go on your "vacation".

For the record I am not wealthy.  I worked in the defense industry.  I have done a lot of foreign travel but that is it.  My wife was an educator and had her summers off so she was able to take the time to spend 3 months in the USA.  When she did this I only took a total of three weeks vacation.  So most of the time I went to work every day.  When we got married she was 50 and I was 60.

Thanks for the relationship detail.  Your wife has an automatic "3 month vacation" privilege because she is an educator.  Most "grunge" workers cannot take off for several months without the possibility that the job will still be there for you if you returned.  In my case, the most time off that I can ask for is six weeks (excluding serious medical problem reasons) for the year.  In this case, to better improve your time schedule opportunities for dating, it is best to date a self employed, educator, travel industry worker, or anyone who has the money and time to take off for several months (or someone who is chronically unemployed).
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on September 14, 2018, 05:21:13 PM
To be honest I don't understand anyone who want to make a public thread about a women he's planning to meet or marry, its like degrading to the women as though she's just some pet..

Does your women know you are writing on a public domain all about her and discussing this women with all and any ????

I think that itself would be enough for any intelligent women to dump the guy..

I will make a note that when I meet my PPL/PPC lady, that I will not discuss my experiences with her regardless of the situation (even if it turns out to be hairy Boris).   :chuckle:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on September 14, 2018, 05:33:38 PM
A 30 second search on Yandex will tell her where to self administer the black eye and who to tell about it.


In many parts of America the definition of domestic violence has expanded to include mental abuse. Physical evidence is not necessary.

A woman can claim her man locks her in the house and doesn't allow her to have friends. A woman can claim her man doesn't let her eat any food she likes such as meat products. She can claim her man controls everything she likes to control her.

It's easy for cops and a judge to believe foreign women because television educated Americans that the men in this endeavor are losers who can't catch a real woman at home.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on September 14, 2018, 05:38:10 PM
Unless I am mistaken Just a Dude is also a professor.

DC guy I am sure you can create a rocketing trip report if you meet Miss Hairy Boris. I suspect a fair number of partners of posters know that there other half participate here.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 14, 2018, 05:59:46 PM
I’m just a lowly public high school teacher. I taught as an adjunct  Community college professor and I taught a class at the University a couple of semesters.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 14, 2018, 06:02:05 PM
Steve makes a good point, though. I do think I went a little too far in some of  what I shared. I never did write her name, although you can probably narrow down to 1 of 10, since FSU women seem to only have about 10 names total amongst them.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 14, 2018, 10:42:14 PM
A 30 second search on Yandex will tell her where to self administer the black eye and who to tell about it.


In many parts of America the definition of domestic violence has expanded to include mental abuse. Physical evidence is not necessary.

A woman can claim her man locks her in the house and doesn't allow her to have friends. A woman can claim her man doesn't let her eat any food she likes such as meat products. She can claim her man controls everything she likes to control her.

It's easy for cops and a judge to believe foreign women because television educated Americans that the men in this endeavor are losers who can't catch a real woman at home.

OK
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 14, 2018, 11:01:18 PM
Sometimes I write like I think I'm so smart. I'm not very smart. Or wise.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.

 And I know that no one can do this for me.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on September 14, 2018, 11:28:39 PM
Sometimes I write like I think I'm so smart. I'm not very smart. Or wise.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.

 And I know that no one can do this for me.

It's important you know all possible scenarios. The good, the bad, and the ugly. If she's a good woman, you don't have to worry about the ugly happening. If you chose a woman you're not compatible with, you will experience the bad in the form of a divorce. If you chose a good woman, you're a good man, and you're both compatible, you will experience good things. Two good people make good things happen. You know her and yourself better than we do.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on September 15, 2018, 03:52:34 AM
If you plan on importing a woman to marry you get some idea about what to do.

Take some time, overcome your travel phobia, get on the big silver bird and go spend some time learning about the woman you were planning to spend your life with.

If, when you do the learning about each other thing, you don't end up together that's not a bad thing. The bad thing is being in the wrong relationship and having to deal with the consequences of the choices that led there.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on September 16, 2018, 03:58:44 PM
Good advice by all the participants have been offered. Not sure where the animosity is coming from. Only Just a Dude and his finance know each other and have spent time together. Our hero will have to figure out what fits and what is rubbish. If he is wrong he will have to wear the shirt.

I have mentioned it before when I first joined RUA, I quickly became involved in a dispute with another poster, the issue was fairly black and white. In the end another, at that time senior member, told me by PM judge the post and not the poster. It would behove all of us to bear this in mind.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on September 17, 2018, 06:36:38 AM
Ok so she will be arriving kind of end of this month?

So we can start the countdown to get the answer on October 1st I guess.. It will be T-90 days...

(https://scontent.fhel3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41948677_1756792021086361_1430548748966035456_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=71e97b5f50bad0fcf79d52fa3cdddac7&oe=5C2F577E)

I will be in charge of the 90 day countdown "Will she stay or will she go". I will see if we can run it along with some SpaceX countdown..
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: SL0413 on September 17, 2018, 08:50:36 AM
How can you recognise a problem if there isn't one?


Falling out of love within a marriage is a problem. Leads to divorce almost every time. It doesn't happen for no reason. You say the couple is intelligent and have good jobs but it doesn't make either of them marriage material. How about their physical appearance? If one lets their body go, it may not light the fire anymore for the other spouse. Maybe they began to love their work more than each other? Maybe they began to lust for another person? You weren't there during their 23 years of marriage but you talk as if you're an expert witness. You can convince me one of the two was a good spouse who tried to solve why the love within the marriage was diminishing over time but as a unit, they couldn't keep it together and make good things happen.

Idiotic.


JAD, did I miss the part of her passing her medical?   Good luck to you both, or to you four (cat and dog, if I remember correctly)?  If she loves nature she would love the Lake Tahoe area, it's one of my favorite places.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on September 17, 2018, 10:39:26 AM
The exchange between Rosco and BillyB has been split off into its own topic: Two good people make good things happen. (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=27508.0)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 17, 2018, 10:10:52 PM
How can you recognise a problem if there isn't one?


Falling out of love within a marriage is a problem. Leads to divorce almost every time. It doesn't happen for no reason. You say the couple is intelligent and have good jobs but it doesn't make either of them marriage material. How about their physical appearance? If one lets their body go, it may not light the fire anymore for the other spouse. Maybe they began to love their work more than each other? Maybe they began to lust for another person? You weren't there during their 23 years of marriage but you talk as if you're an expert witness. You can convince me one of the two was a good spouse who tried to solve why the love within the marriage was diminishing over time but as a unit, they couldn't keep it together and make good things happen.

Idiotic.


JAD, did I miss the part of her passing her medical?   Good luck to you both, or to you four (cat and dog, if I remember correctly)?  If she loves nature she would love the Lake Tahoe area, it's one of my favorite places.
Her medical is scheduled for a week from today. I think the best estimate of buying a ticket will be for something like October 10 at this point.

 She likes nature, but I think she likes the city better, honestly. She goes on a lot a weekend trip said usually it’s to some sort of what they call nature area over there.  We are an hour from Tahoe, but at the 4000 foot elevation with the beautiful forest and it is really pretty here. Have you ever gone to Mammoth Lakes California? I think that’s even prettier than Tahoe.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on September 18, 2018, 06:00:10 AM
How can you recognise a problem if there isn't one?


Falling out of love within a marriage is a problem. Leads to divorce almost every time. It doesn't happen for no reason. You say the couple is intelligent and have good jobs but it doesn't make either of them marriage material. How about their physical appearance? If one lets their body go, it may not light the fire anymore for the other spouse. Maybe they began to love their work more than each other? Maybe they began to lust for another person? You weren't there during their 23 years of marriage but you talk as if you're an expert witness. You can convince me one of the two was a good spouse who tried to solve why the love within the marriage was diminishing over time but as a unit, they couldn't keep it together and make good things happen.

Idiotic.


JAD, did I miss the part of her passing her medical?   Good luck to you both, or to you four (cat and dog, if I remember correctly)?  If she loves nature she would love the Lake Tahoe area, it's one of my favorite places.
Her medical is scheduled for a week from today. I think the best estimate of buying a ticket will be for something like October 10 at this point.

 She likes nature, but I think she likes the city better, honestly. She goes on a lot a weekend trip said usually it’s to some sort of what they call nature area over there.  We are an hour from Tahoe, but at the 4000 foot elevation with the beautiful forest and it is really pretty here. Have you ever gone to Mammoth Lakes California? I think that’s even prettier than Tahoe.

There's no doubt about it, the rural location can be a stunning place to live when you're ready to embrace it.

What I will say and this is from experience, more than likely your lady will appreciate rural beauty so long as she has easy access to the city. That means lots of amenities and available when she needs to go, not when you can take her.

If you cant offer that, it's likely to be tough.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 19, 2018, 09:27:50 PM

There's no doubt about it, the rural location can be a stunning place to live when you're ready to embrace it.

What I will say and this is from experience, more than likely your lady will appreciate rural beauty so long as she has easy access to the city. That means lots of amenities and available when she needs to go, not when you can take her.

If you cant offer that, it's likely to be tough.

That's probably been said one way or another a dozen times+ in this thread, but it's so important it probably bears repeating a few more times.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 26, 2018, 10:38:37 PM
Here’s a little update. She successfully completed her medical and visa interview. I was thinking I’d be buying her a ticket for early October but she informed me she wants to wait until her friend’s baby is born in 6 weeks or so. I wasn’t thrilled about that news but I kept my cool.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on September 26, 2018, 10:59:05 PM
 :party0011:
Here’s a little update. She successfully completed her medical and visa interview. I was thinking I’d be buying her a ticket for early October but she informed me she wants to wait until her friend’s baby is born in 6 weeks or so. I wasn’t thrilled about that news but I kept my cool.

This is your chance to prove you love her — get on a plane and go see her for a weekend.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on September 27, 2018, 03:13:40 AM

There's no doubt about it, the rural location can be a stunning place to live when you're ready to embrace it.

What I will say and this is from experience, more than likely your lady will appreciate rural beauty so long as she has easy access to the city. That means lots of amenities and available when she needs to go, not when you can take her.

If you cant offer that, it's likely to be tough.

Gold... coming from Rosco  'shock' ;)

Rare is the city apartment dwelling FSU W who adapts easily to rural living ..


My ex point plank refused to move with me to the wilds of Northumberland and the Scots borders... and even found Gloucestershire  towns of 100k plus  'villages' .... trying out London - before  realising where I had  originally brought her was the place she loved best ...

Even my current lass has suddenly announced that Cyprus can be boring - having returned  to Sochi  for the annual Formula 1 fun ....  sometimes these ladies like to walk in a crowd - be part of a mass and 'disappear' ...



Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 27, 2018, 07:46:45 AM
Or maybe I’m a Visa Mule after all?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on September 27, 2018, 08:26:12 AM
Or maybe I’m a Visa Mule after all?

What makes you think that?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on September 27, 2018, 10:26:59 AM
:party0011:
Here’s a little update. She successfully completed her medical and visa interview. I was thinking I’d be buying her a ticket for early October but she informed me she wants to wait until her friend’s baby is born in 6 weeks or so. I wasn’t thrilled about that news but I kept my cool.

This is your chance to prove you love her — get on a plane and go see her for a weekend.

Yus, go do that! Inoculate yourself against your fear of travel and change and show that you care about her and want to be with her.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 27, 2018, 12:11:07 PM
Or maybe I’m a Visa Mule after all?

What makes you think that?
We had tossed around a date of October 10. she didn’t mention that she wanted to stay for the baby until after the interview. I knew about the baby months ago and considered suggesting she stay for it. But we never discussed it until yesterday. I reacted with my poker face (poker texts) intact.

I guess it seems like she would come now no matter what. But I won’t try to persuade her. It may just be a very pragmatic decision on her part. She also needs to put her work and real estate affairs in order.

No I won’t go visit. I dont think I’m afraid of flying, but I do know I don’t enjoy it. Tinnitus, lower back, lines...
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on September 27, 2018, 12:17:37 PM
Here’s a little update. She successfully completed her medical and visa interview. I was thinking I’d be buying her a ticket for early October but she informed me she wants to wait until her friend’s baby is born in 6 weeks or so. I wasn’t thrilled about that news but I kept my cool.

Don't treat as unimportant her life in her country, her friends, stuff that is important to her. It ain't all about you and what you want.

If its a close pal, she'll probably end up godmother. These women find that a big deal.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on September 27, 2018, 01:42:37 PM
Or maybe I’m a Visa Mule after all?

What makes you think that?
We had tossed around a date of October 10. she didn’t mention that she wanted to stay for the baby until after the interview. I knew about the baby months ago and considered suggesting she stay for it. But we never discussed it until yesterday. I reacted with my poker face (poker texts) intact.

I guess it seems like she would come now no matter what. But I won’t try to persuade her. It may just be a very pragmatic decision on her part. She also needs to put her work and real estate affairs in order.

No I won’t go visit. I dont think I’m afraid of flying, but I do know I don’t enjoy it. Tinnitus, lower back, lines...

Have you considered it from her viewpoint?

As Manny says, she’s maybe getting her own affairs in order first. More likely she knows she can’t fly back and forth so if it’s a close friend, it’ll be important she meets the baby before moving her whole world to you.

It’s normal to feel insecure given the situation but whatever you do, don’t become a needy, selfish bloke. She’s gonna need the opposite type of guy over the coming months & years.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on September 27, 2018, 02:00:37 PM
You're possibly being tested. She already knows that you are inflexible and don't like change. If we know it, so does she.

What she wants to know is that you care about her enough. Just accepting the changed situation might not be enough. You need, I think, to make some kind of demonstration that you are unhappy about her changed plans. Not that you will try to stop her, because this event will probably be quite important to her. It's a good reason to pop over and say hello before the baby arrives. Show that she is important to you. The last thing she probably wants is to be with a bloke who seems indifferent to her.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on September 27, 2018, 02:37:14 PM
You're possibly being tested. She already knows that you are inflexible and don't like change. If we know it, so does she.

What she wants to know is that you care about her enough. Just accepting the changed situation might not be enough. You need, I think, to make some kind of demonstration that you are unhappy about her changed plans. Not that you will try to stop her, because this event will probably be quite important to her. It's a good reason to pop over and say hello before the baby arrives. Show that she is important to you. The last thing she probably wants is to be with a bloke who seems indifferent to her.

Or to be with a bloke who just wants a mail order bride.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on September 27, 2018, 03:39:37 PM
Rosco, that's a choice she already made, I think. It's pretty much in the name!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: SL0413 on September 27, 2018, 05:18:20 PM
My 2 cents (you used to be able to buy bubble gum with that...):

I think there may be a couple of reasons.  The friend's baby thing could have been on her mind but initially not crucial.  Before the interview there was nothing definite - factors out of her control could have prevented her from immigrating (or is it emigrating?)  Now everything is done and her visa is at hand.  It's all real: she's moving to a new country, leaving friends and family, and will need to face and adjust to a new culture.  With her friend about to give birth, she can use the time to support her friend and process the new reality.

Second, she will be stuck in the US for the next 6 months or so, if all goes well.  Her visa only allows one entry to the US - if she leaves before getting married she can't return.  After marriage she still cannot leave the US until her Adjustment of Status is approved - if she does the AOS will be considered abandoned and she would need to apply for another visa to return, and I am not sure what type (possibly the foreign spouse visa I-130)?  There is something called an Advanced Parole that can be applied for, but that requires the AOS to be assigned a case number and in processing, and I have heard the Advanced Parole itself can take months to be approved.  She could probably use the extra six weeks to see friends and family and inhale her home culture and language before the trip/move.

Mid November is not the worst time for the two you to be together.  It will be at the start of the holidays, with colder days and longer nights.  There are worse places to be than in the snowy mountains in a warm and cozy house with the person you love, and with internet...  ;D  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on September 27, 2018, 08:26:32 PM

I think there may be a couple of reasons.  The friend's baby thing could have been on her mind but initially not crucial.  Before the interview there was nothing definite - factors out of her control could have prevented her from immigrating (or is it emigrating?)  Now everything is done and her visa is at hand.  It's all real: she's moving to a new country, leaving friends and family, and will need to face and adjust to a new culture.  With her friend about to give birth, she can use the time to support her friend and process the new reality.

Second, she will be stuck in the US for the next 6 months or so, if all goes well.  Her visa only allows one entry to the US - if she leaves before getting married she can't return.  After marriage she still cannot leave the US until her Adjustment of Status is approved - if she does the AOS will be considered abandoned and she would need to apply for another visa to return, and I am not sure what type (possibly the foreign spouse visa I-130)?  There is something called an Advanced Parole that can be applied for, but that requires the AOS to be assigned a case number and in processing, and I have heard the Advanced Parole itself can take months to be approved.  She could probably use the extra six weeks to see friends and family and inhale her home culture and language before the trip/move.

Mid November is not the worst time for the two you to be together.  It will be at the start of the holidays, with colder days and longer nights.  There are worse places to be than in the snowy mountains in a warm and cozy house with the person you love, and with internet...  ;D  :thumbsup:

Those are all good points. Especially the snowy mountains/cozy thing.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on September 28, 2018, 02:20:00 AM
I think there may be a couple of reasons.  The friend's baby thing could have been on her mind but initially not crucial.  Before the interview there was nothing definite - factors out of her control could have prevented her from immigrating (or is it emigrating?)  Now everything is done and her visa is at hand.

This is actually a really good point.

Everyone is different in their approach and mindset but my wife used to have the attitude that she wasn't granted anything until it was given. We'd complete forms that I'd view as a formality, knowing we met every single criteria and the only problem in my mind would be a hold up due to insufficient documentation or a human error on an application.

Mrs Rosco on the other hand would expect the worst and celebrate the best. It's possible justadudes girl also didn't want to put herself in a situation where she'd be mortally let down upon rejection and wasn't sitting in her front room with bags packed in expectation. She now needs to do her stuff.

If so......this is another reminder not to get needy and selfish and remember that she's coming to you.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on October 04, 2018, 04:38:24 PM
She received her visa package in the mail today. Apparently it weighs about 3 pounds. She is having health issues right now, fatigue type things. I attribute it to the stress of the situation, and the fact that I don't come across as all in. To help fill up the time from the delay, I have been acquiring stuff. I bought a 40 year old tractor (Kubota diesel 4x4 if you care) to clear the snow, a $1000 designer dog, and yesterday I got an older diesel pickup that I want to put a slide in camper on. I hope I don't slip back into the pack rat tendencies I was in a couple years ago, when I got rid of a bunch of stuff on this property. The first MOB's imminent arrival inspired me to do that. I have sent current girl pictures of all of this so she knows what's up. I have a 1/2 acre and a place for everything, so I hope I will keep it  all looking nice now and in the future.

She asked me to meet her in New York on her trip over. I sort of blew it off but I should give her a firm answer, which will be no. I'm sure that bothers some of you.

So I suppose some time within the next 2 weeks  I'll get the tracking information (when I buy a plane ticket) for my mail order bride. I made an MOB joke recently, which she found humorous.

There's an update.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on October 04, 2018, 05:24:59 PM
Quote
She asked me to meet her in New York on her trip over,

Where in NY?  NYC or Niagara Falls?  Most international flights connect through JFK from Europe.  There is a Ukrainian community living near the airport and other parts of the city.  Niagara Falls is an international destination (especially for honeymooners).
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: SL0413 on October 04, 2018, 05:30:49 PM
Wow.  Just, wow.   This really is a purchase.  40 year old tractor, old diesel pickup, ukrainian woman...I wonder which will require the most maintenance...
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on October 04, 2018, 06:52:54 PM
Wow.  Just, wow.   This really is a purchase.  40 year old tractor, old diesel pickup, ukrainian woman...I wonder which will require the most maintenance...

 :ROFL:

Bear in mind JustaDude rebuilds car and engines as a hobby, I suspect he is half posting in jest to get a rise from some more cynical members.

While JustaDude I understand you dislike air travel meeting your bride in NYC (or perhaps Amsterdam/Paris) would be a decent thing to do. I assume she is not traveling directly from KBP to JFK.  :THDN:

If you travelled to Paris or Amsterdam she would come to America with her spouse/partner at her arm.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Lord of the Dance on October 04, 2018, 09:51:33 PM
I bought a 40 year old tractor (Kubota diesel 4x4 if you care)

I've never been disappointed with anything from Kubota.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: yankee on October 05, 2018, 05:23:45 AM
Wow.  Just, wow.   This really is a purchase.  40 year old tractor, old diesel pickup, ukrainian woman...I wonder which will require the most maintenance...

 :ROFL:

Bear in mind JustaDude rebuilds car and engines as a hobby, I suspect he is half posting in jest to get a rise from some more cynical members.

While JustaDude I understand you dislike air travel meeting your bride in NYC (or perhaps Amsterdam/Paris) would be a decent thing to do. I assume she is not traveling directly from KBP to JFK.  :THDN:

If you travelled to Paris or Amsterdam she would come to America with her spouse/partner at her arm.



What a waist of money.  She should be old enough to deal with a lay-over or does she need adult supervision?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on October 05, 2018, 09:09:03 AM
Wow.  Just, wow.   This really is a purchase.  40 year old tractor, old diesel pickup, ukrainian woman...I wonder which will require the most maintenance...

 :ROFL:

Bear in mind JustaDude rebuilds car and engines as a hobby, I suspect he is half posting in jest to get a rise from some more cynical members.

While JustaDude I understand you dislike air travel meeting your bride in NYC (or perhaps Amsterdam/Paris) would be a decent thing to do. I assume she is not traveling directly from KBP to JFK.  :THDN:

If you travelled to Paris or Amsterdam she would come to America with her spouse/partner at her arm.



What a waist of money.  She should be old enough to deal with a lay-over or does she need adult supervision?

Boom!  :chuckle:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on October 08, 2018, 04:35:39 PM
Things almost ended yesterday. She inquired about why I  am not communicating like I have in the past. I almost told her that it was not gonna work out. I doubt that this thing is going to go through the way I see it now. Sometimes I feel like I know I have to tell her but I haven’t had the guts to do it yet. If we do have that conversation I think I’ll tell her that she can use the visa as a travel visa she wants.

With my uncertainty about this thing and other red flags that rua member have pointed out, I think it’s foolish to do this. I think of the things I have to risk, my retirement and assets, etc.

Arie, Thanks for defending me, but it looks like I’m just an a** that’s about to mess up another girl’s life.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 08, 2018, 10:58:56 PM
justadude, can you give me the cliffs notes.

How long have you spent time with this girl in Ukraine and how quickly did you propose?

Knowing someone online and in real life are two totally different things. Only when you live with them and see them all the time do you get a real sense of who they are.

Well if your gut says no then better to end it now then getting married first and knowing it wasn't the right move.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on October 09, 2018, 12:00:43 AM
justadude, can you give me the cliffs notes.

Why not start >here< (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,27069.msg475050.html#msg475050).
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 09, 2018, 12:37:34 AM
I read the OP's 1st post on the thread.  From what I gather, he met her once for 4 days then again for 10 days and proposed.  That was in Jan 2018. Didn't want to skim through the entire thread.  Did he meet up with her again?

Just seems like a long time to wait for her to get over to the States.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 09, 2018, 04:25:51 AM
About that vegetarian thing..probably not gonna work out if you are gonna be strict about it.  You gotta let her eat what she wants. I know many girls who don't like to eat meat but much for a guy it's less common.  Especially if they are active or play sports.

That's gonna be a huge issue depending on who does the cooking.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 09, 2018, 04:45:49 AM
Maladetz!
Then again, I don’t know what this means!

what's your Russian level JDude? I'm surprised you wouldn't even know this word if you had 2 previous relationships with Russian speaking women.

You gotta learn some Russian to communicate.  Depending on their level of English and how much slang they know, even my Russian lady friends who speak fluent English say it's draining to talk in their non-native language all day.  She'll want to speak some Russian at some point, if not to you then to her friends/family back home.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on October 09, 2018, 07:42:14 AM
Brian,

The question you need to answer is how much you are willing to accommodate and be flexible with your bride.

If you feel you only can get a tractor and build a closet for her it is time to push the eject button. She will dump you fairly quickly after she arrives. Not because you can not provide for her, but because you see her as object and not a partner.

Women and it does not matter where they come from want both nurturing and guidance. If you intend to be an amused bystander, there will be problems in the future that you have fostered.

Av
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on October 09, 2018, 09:14:09 AM
Things almost ended yesterday. She inquired about why I  am not communicating like I have in the past. I almost told her that it was not gonna work out. I doubt that this thing is going to go through the way I see it now. Sometimes I feel like I know I have to tell her but I haven’t had the guts to do it yet. If we do have that conversation I think I’ll tell her that she can use the visa as a travel visa she wants.

With my uncertainty about this thing and other red flags that rua member have pointed out, I think it’s foolish to do this. I think of the things I have to risk, my retirement and assets, etc.

Arie, Thanks for defending me, but it looks like I’m just an a** that’s about to mess up another girl’s life.


I suggest you ignore any negative comments here and focus on the time you spent together with your fiancé and why you fell in love with her.

I suspect some of your comments here were deliberate trolling comments against your detractors.

Your goal was to have her with you so you guys could build a life together. You’re close to achieving that goal. Take an optimistic attitude, tell her you love her and cannot wait for her to arrive.

That’s a choice only you can make: to be 100% positive and all in; or...
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Wiz on October 09, 2018, 09:18:46 AM
About that vegetarian thing..probably not gonna work out if you are gonna be strict about it.  You gotta let her eat what she wants. I know many girls who don't like to eat meat.... but much for a guy it's less common.  Especially if they are active or play sports.

That's gonna be a huge issue depending on who does the cooking.

....  only when it is hard and throbbing?

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on October 09, 2018, 10:01:00 AM
About that vegetarian thing..probably not gonna work out if you are gonna be strict about it.  You gotta let her eat what she wants. I know many girls who don't like to eat meat.... but much for a guy it's less common.  Especially if they are active or play sports.

That's gonna be a huge issue depending on who does the cooking.

....  only when it is hard and throbbing?

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 :ROFL:   :ROFL: 

Please bear in mind that it is possible young people read this forum.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Wiz on October 09, 2018, 10:15:04 AM
About that vegetarian thing..probably not gonna work out if you are gonna be strict about it.  You gotta let her eat what she wants. I know many girls who don't like to eat meat.... but much for a guy it's less common.  Especially if they are active or play sports.

That's gonna be a huge issue depending on who does the cooking.

....  only when it is hard and throbbing?

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 :ROFL:   :ROFL: 

Please bear in mind that it is possible young people read this forum.


It was a very young woman who teach me this expression........when she made the statement that she has become Vigan......... and I asked the question.... you don't eat meat any more......?

BTW I was her boss! ....  First time I was left with my mouth open and no sound coming out!

 :ROFL:

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Dogsoldier on October 09, 2018, 01:29:12 PM
About that vegetarian thing..probably not gonna work out if you are gonna be strict about it.  You gotta let her eat what she wants. I know many girls who don't like to eat meat.... but much for a guy it's less common.  Especially if they are active or play sports.

That's gonna be a huge issue depending on who does the cooking.

....  only when it is hard and throbbing?

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 :ROFL:   :ROFL: 

Please bear in mind that it is possible young people read this forum.


It was a very young woman who teach me this expression........when she made the statement that she has become Vigan......... and I asked the question.... you don't eat meat any more......?

BTW I was her boss! ....  First time I was left with my mouth open and no sound coming out!

 :ROFL:
Why? Did you have a mouthful of meat?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on October 09, 2018, 03:04:12 PM
About that vegetarian thing..probably not gonna work out if you are gonna be strict about it.  You gotta let her eat what she wants. I know many girls who don't like to eat meat.... but much for a guy it's less common.  Especially if they are active or play sports.

That's gonna be a huge issue depending on who does the cooking.

....  only when it is hard and throbbing?

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 :ROFL:   :ROFL: 

Please bear in mind that it is possible young people read this forum.


It was a very young woman who teach me this expression........when she made the statement that she has become Vigan......... and I asked the question.... you don't eat meat any more......?

BTW I was her boss! ....  First time I was left with my mouth open and no sound coming out!

 :ROFL:
Why? Did you have a mouthful of meat?

 :ROFL:   tiphat
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 09, 2018, 03:08:45 PM
well this thread sure got derailed lol...back to the OP if he's not willing to be flexible with the vegetarian thing I don't see a happy ending. 

The other thing he doesn't mention is what is the girl's English abilities?  She'll be moving to the States and will need to make friends and be part of a community.  He hasn't made an effort to learn Russian so I don't know how well they communicate, if there's alot of misunderstandings due to language.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on October 09, 2018, 03:16:27 PM
well this thread sure got derailed lol...back to the OP if he's not willing to be flexible with the vegetarian thing I don't see a happy ending. 

The other thing he doesn't mention is what is the girl's English abilities?  She'll be moving to the States and will need to make friends and be part of a community.  He hasn't made an effort to learn Russian so I don't know how well they communicate, if there's alot of misunderstandings due to language.

Her English as I understand is quite good I suspect our hero is not black and white about meat.

There is an issue that I suspect is being overlooked, a future child. The fiancee of Brian is delaying her departure till the birth of her best friends first baby. This need to procreate will only grow and the fact that our hero does not desire babies is a serious potential issue in the long term.

Reminds me of the story of a girl coming home after a sex ed class and telling her mother there is no way she was going to have a baby, something the size of a watermelon come out of her.

Her mothers drool comment was than make sure you do not put something the size of a cucumber in there.


Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 09, 2018, 04:43:22 PM
Well even apart from the English fluency there seems to be bigger issues.  Namely that JDude sees this more as a financial transaction. from what I gather he's stingy with his money and thinking of the repercussions of a divorce if that were to happen.   

He wants her to work which is understandable, but given that she'll be moving to a completely new country it would take at least 4-6 months to get her settled. 

He seems pretty adamant about the meat thing.  And not willing to compromise, which is a bad sign.

My thought is to take a step back and hold off on marriage for now. Spend some more time with her in real life .
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Wiz on October 09, 2018, 11:14:54 PM
Well even apart from the English fluency there seems to be bigger issues.  Namely that JDude sees this more as a financial transaction. from what I gather he's stingy with his money and thinking of the repercussions of a divorce if that were to happen.   

He wants her to work which is understandable, but given that she'll be moving to a completely new country it would take at least 4-6 months to get her settled. 

He seems pretty adamant about the meat thing.  And not willing to compromise, which is a bad sign.

My thought is to take a step back and hold off on marriage for now. Spend some more time with her in real life .

It takes around 3 years to settle and adjust to a mew place, for a woman amd if the Jdude is not flexible....... all I can see is....  :trainwreck:

Actually some of us have pointed out to him, from the start many pitfalls......but it appears he has his own views. Now he has doubts.......and wait to see when she arrives........if she will like living up in the mountains, after living in a very cosmopolitan city like Lvov.

 :'(
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 09, 2018, 11:29:40 PM
Well I wouldn't say 3 years to adjust, that's quite a long time. I've lived in several different countries including Russia for periods of time.  Usually after a few weeks of knowing the city I can get around ok.  It's the language and culture and take longer.  But I have always known it is temporary and I would return home.  This girl is making a permanent move.

Yeah, she's a city girl and he's a country guy.  It's gonna be hard for her to get used to it.  That and the meat/vegan issue. 

One thing I notice is that he hasn't said much about helping her acclimate to the USA.  He said he couldn't last 7 weeks in the Ukraine which shows you how hard it can be. 

Best option now is to slow down and think things through.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 10, 2018, 03:05:07 PM
regarding Justadude, I'm just trying to help him out. he seems like a nice guy but probably hasn't thought out everything in terms of bringing a gal over. 

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on October 11, 2018, 04:28:15 AM
Things almost ended yesterday. She inquired about why I  am not communicating like I have in the past. I almost told her that it was not gonna work out. I doubt that this thing is going to go through the way I see it now. Sometimes I feel like I know I have to tell her but I haven’t had the guts to do it yet. If we do have that conversation I think I’ll tell her that she can use the visa as a travel visa she wants.

With my uncertainty about this thing and other red flags that rua member have pointed out, I think it’s foolish to do this. I think of the things I have to risk, my retirement and assets, etc.

Arie, Thanks for defending me, but it looks like I’m just an a** that’s about to mess up another girl’s life.

I’m unsure if you’ve been trolling or joking about the tractor and NY stuff because I know very little about you, but let’s assume you’re being genuine in your latest posts.

If this is all true, I think you’re a very selfish and cowardly individual, guising as a good guy who’s a tad insecure. Some call it inflexible but that’s being too nice.

There’s nothing wrong with having a change of heart, sadly it happens. It’s how you deal with it that counts. You’ve made this woman jump through hoops, learn English and give up her entire life for a new journey across the globe where she’ll need a strong man to take care of her.

In the meantime, you’ve been dicking about in the woods playing with tractors and tools whilst telling us your fears. What you should have been doing is telling this to HER, face to face in Ukraine. This isn’t a game and she’s not a toy.

I just hope she hasn’t turned her back on everything she has before you drop her like a tonne of shit. Rejection isn’t nice and I can only imagine the pain it’ll cause. This should have been done months ago if you weren’t prepared to make one last visit to confirm, one way or another.

The offer of allowing her to use the visa for a holiday is pathetic. I called this out ages ago btw, further back in the thread. Grow some balls and take responsibility before you wreck someone else’s life.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Chris on October 11, 2018, 07:42:42 AM
Things almost ended yesterday. She inquired about why I  am not communicating like I have in the past. I almost told her that it was not gonna work out. I doubt that this thing is going to go through the way I see it now. Sometimes I feel like I know I have to tell her but I haven’t had the guts to do it yet. If we do have that conversation I think I’ll tell her that she can use the visa as a travel visa she wants.

With my uncertainty about this thing and other red flags that rua member have pointed out, I think it’s foolish to do this. I think of the things I have to risk, my retirement and assets, etc.

Arie, Thanks for defending me, but it looks like I’m just an a** that’s about to mess up another girl’s life.

I’m unsure if you’ve been trolling or joking about the tractor and NY stuff because I know very little about you, but let’s assume you’re being genuine in your latest posts.

If this is all true, I think you’re a very selfish and cowardly individual, guising as a good guy who’s a tad insecure. Some call it inflexible but that’s being too nice.

There’s nothing wrong with having a change of heart, sadly it happens. It’s how you deal with it that counts. You’ve made this woman jump through hoops, learn English and give up her entire life for a new journey across the globe where she’ll need a strong man to take care of her.

In the meantime, you’ve been dicking about in the woods playing with tractors and tools whilst telling us your fears. What you should have been doing is telling this to HER, face to face in Ukraine. This isn’t a game and she’s not a toy.

I just hope she hasn’t turned her back on everything she has before you drop her like a tonne of shit. Rejection isn’t nice and I can only imagine the pain it’ll cause. This should have been done months ago if you weren’t prepared to make one last visit to confirm, one way or another.

The offer of allowing her to use the visa for a holiday is pathetic. I called this out ages ago btw, further back in the thread. Grow some balls and take responsibility before you wreck someone else’s life.

+ 1   Rosco just nailed it here, I feel very sorry for this lady TBH.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Bruce Lee on October 11, 2018, 08:37:17 AM
Things almost ended yesterday. She inquired about why I  am not communicating like I have in the past. I almost told her that it was not gonna work out. I doubt that this thing is going to go through the way I see it now. Sometimes I feel like I know I have to tell her but I haven’t had the guts to do it yet. If we do have that conversation I think I’ll tell her that she can use the visa as a travel visa she wants.

With my uncertainty about this thing and other red flags that rua member have pointed out, I think it’s foolish to do this. I think of the things I have to risk, my retirement and assets, etc.

Arie, Thanks for defending me, but it looks like I’m just an a** that’s about to mess up another girl’s life.

I’m unsure if you’ve been trolling or joking about the tractor and NY stuff because I know very little about you, but let’s assume you’re being genuine in your latest posts.

If this is all true, I think you’re a very selfish and cowardly individual, guising as a good guy who’s a tad insecure. Some call it inflexible but that’s being too nice.

There’s nothing wrong with having a change of heart, sadly it happens. It’s how you deal with it that counts. You’ve made this woman jump through hoops, learn English and give up her entire life for a new journey across the globe where she’ll need a strong man to take care of her.

In the meantime, you’ve been dicking about in the woods playing with tractors and tools whilst telling us your fears. What you should have been doing is telling this to HER, face to face in Ukraine. This isn’t a game and she’s not a toy.

I just hope she hasn’t turned her back on everything she has before you drop her like a tonne of shit. Rejection isn’t nice and I can only imagine the pain it’ll cause. This should have been done months ago if you weren’t prepared to make one last visit to confirm, one way or another.

The offer of allowing her to use the visa for a holiday is pathetic. I called this out ages ago btw, further back in the thread. Grow some balls and take responsibility before you wreck someone else’s life.

+ 1   Rosco just nailed it here, I feel very sorry for this lady TBH.
Agreed 100 percent, sometimes I fear we encourage folks who should have no business anywhere near this endeavour, if the lady had access to this site and had read some of this crap she would already be running to the hills. And I’m not referring to the hills he’s planning on living in.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 11, 2018, 07:54:25 PM
My previous FSU fiance, as I have mentioned in the past, was institutionalized due to conditions induced (in my mind) by the stress of the situation. However, another common factor, me, cannot be overlooked as likely playing a role.

I'm just an ass. Maybe I'm unfit for a relationship and that's why I had to go half way around the world to find a girl.



This sounds like Jdude is repeating the same mistake.  He got engaged after 10 days with that girl and same with this one. Then the wheels fall apart.

Well at least he knows he's an ass but what he's putting these girls through is worse.  Playing with their lives and giving them false hope.

Hope that 1st girl is out of the institution and back to normal. 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on October 12, 2018, 12:57:58 AM
Rare are the times any Rosco post meets with my approval - but this is one - sorry

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on October 12, 2018, 04:25:50 AM
My previous FSU fiance, as I have mentioned in the past, was institutionalized due to conditions induced (in my mind) by the stress of the situation. However, another common factor, me, cannot be overlooked as likely playing a role.

I'm just an ass. Maybe I'm unfit for a relationship and that's why I had to go half way around the world to find a girl.



This sounds like Jdude is repeating the same mistake.  He got engaged after 10 days with that girl and same with this one. Then the wheels fall apart.

Well at least he knows he's an ass but what he's putting these girls through is worse.  Playing with their lives and giving them false hope.

Hope that 1st girl is out of the institution and back to normal.

I know first hand, the drama and stress these ladies go through taking such a massive step. I vividly remember the worry on Mrs Rosco's parents face when we told them the news. It was like they were losing their daughter and placing so much trust in me to take care of her. I felt duty bound to visit regularly and still do when we can. At least my wife knew I was there for her......

Imagine telling all your friends and family that your're moving across the world to be with a bloke she barely knows. She'll fear being ridiculed and she'll be praying her faith in this guy pays off. Then there's all the trips to the Visa centres, the tidying up of the loose ends and the mental preparation of the move. Meanwhile he's only thinking of himself and delaying the pain for his own good.

The blokes unfit for this and the pain he caused the first time round should have taught him something. If people could be struck off, then he's on that list. He needs to grow a set and call it now or be honest with her and try to make it work. This isn't the time for building cupboards and playing with tractors.

I'm actually angry at the way he's behaved.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 12, 2018, 05:28:56 AM
From the posts he's written he clearly isn't being flexible to her needs.  No meat in the house, he wants her to work, his house is in some remote place far from the city.

No mention of him learning Russian or making sure she will be comfortable in her new country.

And I really don't like him using the word "importing", he's said it several times when talking about girls.  As if he's doing them a favour.

He wouldn't even meet this girl in New York on her trip over.  Sure it's a pain but this is supposed to be your girl.

He talks about being in Ukraine for 7 weeks and getting homesick! That's not even half a semester.  Try living through a Russian winter and then talk.

What's the age difference between them?  She wants a child probably and he doesn't.  Well there goes the neighbourhood.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Chris on October 12, 2018, 10:26:23 AM
My previous FSU fiance, as I have mentioned in the past, was institutionalized due to conditions induced (in my mind) by the stress of the situation. However, another common factor, me, cannot be overlooked as likely playing a role.

I'm just an ass. Maybe I'm unfit for a relationship and that's why I had to go half way around the world to find a girl.



This sounds like Jdude is repeating the same mistake.  He got engaged after 10 days with that girl and same with this one. Then the wheels fall apart.

Well at least he knows he's an ass but what he's putting these girls through is worse.  Playing with their lives and giving them false hope.

Hope that 1st girl is out of the institution and back to normal.

I know first hand, the drama and stress these ladies go through taking such a massive step. I vividly remember the worry on Mrs Rosco's parents face when we told them the news. It was like they were losing their daughter and placing so much trust in me to take care of her. I felt duty bound to visit regularly and still do when we can. At least my wife knew I was there for her......

Imagine telling all your friends and family that your're moving across the world to be with a bloke she barely knows. She'll fear being ridiculed and she'll be praying her faith in this guy pays off. Then there's all the trips to the Visa centres, the tidying up of the loose ends and the mental preparation of the move. Meanwhile he's only thinking of himself and delaying the pain for his own good.

The blokes unfit for this and the pain he caused the first time round should have taught him something. If people could be struck off, then he's on that list. He needs to grow a set and call it now or be honest with her and try to make it work. This isn't the time for building cupboards and playing with tractors.

I'm actually angry at the way he's behaved.

Ain't that the truth, I remember similar, at our wedding my FiL stood up and gave a speach (in Ukrainian) and at the end, asked me personally to make sure that I take care of his grandaughter who was 7 years old at the time, of course he was worried about his daughter too, but his grandaughter was far more of a worry for the in laws, especially bearing in mind that they had never visited the UK, certainly puts things into perspective and makes you aware of what these ladies are risking when moving abroad.

Nearly 11 years later that young 7 year old is now at University in the UK and doing very well, sadly, both in laws passed away 3 and 5 years ago so didn't live long enough to see her achieving so much, they would be so proud now, I feel sorry for any ladies who give up their lives in the FSU for anyone who treats them more like a possession, a purchase and with so little respect.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on October 12, 2018, 10:47:12 AM
My previous FSU fiance, as I have mentioned in the past, was institutionalized due to conditions induced (in my mind) by the stress of the situation. However, another common factor, me, cannot be overlooked as likely playing a role.

I'm just an ass. Maybe I'm unfit for a relationship and that's why I had to go half way around the world to find a girl.



This sounds like Jdude is repeating the same mistake.  He got engaged after 10 days with that girl and same with this one. Then the wheels fall apart.

Well at least he knows he's an ass but what he's putting these girls through is worse.  Playing with their lives and giving them false hope.

Hope that 1st girl is out of the institution and back to normal.

I know first hand, the drama and stress these ladies go through taking such a massive step. I vividly remember the worry on Mrs Rosco's parents face when we told them the news. It was like they were losing their daughter and placing so much trust in me to take care of her. I felt duty bound to visit regularly and still do when we can. At least my wife knew I was there for her......

Imagine telling all your friends and family that your're moving across the world to be with a bloke she barely knows. She'll fear being ridiculed and she'll be praying her faith in this guy pays off. Then there's all the trips to the Visa centres, the tidying up of the loose ends and the mental preparation of the move. Meanwhile he's only thinking of himself and delaying the pain for his own good.

The blokes unfit for this and the pain he caused the first time round should have taught him something. If people could be struck off, then he's on that list. He needs to grow a set and call it now or be honest with her and try to make it work. This isn't the time for building cupboards and playing with tractors.

I'm actually angry at the way he's behaved.

Ain't that the truth, I remember similar, at our wedding my FiL stood up and gave a speach (in Ukrainian) and at the end, asked me personally to make sure that I take care of his grandaughter who was 7 years old at the time, of course he was worried about his daughter too, but his grandaughter was far more of a worry for the in laws, especially bearing in mind that they had never visited the UK, certainly puts things into perspective and makes you aware of what these ladies are risking when moving abroad.

Nearly 11 years later that young 7 year old is now at University in the UK and doing very well, sadly, both in laws passed away 3 and 5 years ago so didn't live long enough to see her achieving so much, they would be so proud now, I feel sorry for any ladies who give up their lives in the FSU for anyone who treats them more like a possession, a purchase and with so little respect.

The problem with this guy is that he refuses to go back.....ever. He said so much. He can't even be arsed flying to meet her in his own country!

A mature man with good intentions wouldn't need told but that speech would certainly focus what it is you have to do. Accept responsibility and do what you need to do to take care of loved ones. At the end of the day we're the ones who've probably instigated the meeting, turned up, spent intimate time with the lady and ended up proposing. The hard work starts at this point

Sadly not every relationship works out but this guys a day late and a dollar short. Again, I'm not sure how much he jests with the language or perhaps provokes but its extremely disrespectful when discussing a real person who's taking it seriously. It's like he thinks he's actually buying a mail order bride.

The lesson here though is that the story you've shared with us Chris, comes from guys who make it work. Most of us have something similar to tell. Flip the coin and you get the bloke in this thread and it'll never work.

I'm glad this is here for others to learn from.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Chris on October 12, 2018, 11:14:37 AM
My previous FSU fiance, as I have mentioned in the past, was institutionalized due to conditions induced (in my mind) by the stress of the situation. However, another common factor, me, cannot be overlooked as likely playing a role.

I'm just an ass. Maybe I'm unfit for a relationship and that's why I had to go half way around the world to find a girl.



This sounds like Jdude is repeating the same mistake.  He got engaged after 10 days with that girl and same with this one. Then the wheels fall apart.

Well at least he knows he's an ass but what he's putting these girls through is worse.  Playing with their lives and giving them false hope.

Hope that 1st girl is out of the institution and back to normal.

I know first hand, the drama and stress these ladies go through taking such a massive step. I vividly remember the worry on Mrs Rosco's parents face when we told them the news. It was like they were losing their daughter and placing so much trust in me to take care of her. I felt duty bound to visit regularly and still do when we can. At least my wife knew I was there for her......

Imagine telling all your friends and family that your're moving across the world to be with a bloke she barely knows. She'll fear being ridiculed and she'll be praying her faith in this guy pays off. Then there's all the trips to the Visa centres, the tidying up of the loose ends and the mental preparation of the move. Meanwhile he's only thinking of himself and delaying the pain for his own good.

The blokes unfit for this and the pain he caused the first time round should have taught him something. If people could be struck off, then he's on that list. He needs to grow a set and call it now or be honest with her and try to make it work. This isn't the time for building cupboards and playing with tractors.

I'm actually angry at the way he's behaved.

Ain't that the truth, I remember similar, at our wedding my FiL stood up and gave a speach (in Ukrainian) and at the end, asked me personally to make sure that I take care of his grandaughter who was 7 years old at the time, of course he was worried about his daughter too, but his grandaughter was far more of a worry for the in laws, especially bearing in mind that they had never visited the UK, certainly puts things into perspective and makes you aware of what these ladies are risking when moving abroad.

Nearly 11 years later that young 7 year old is now at University in the UK and doing very well, sadly, both in laws passed away 3 and 5 years ago so didn't live long enough to see her achieving so much, they would be so proud now, I feel sorry for any ladies who give up their lives in the FSU for anyone who treats them more like a possession, a purchase and with so little respect.

The problem with this guy is that he refuses to go back.....ever. He said so much. He can't even be arsed flying to meet her in his own country!

A mature man with good intentions wouldn't need told but that speech would certainly focus what it is you have to do. Accept responsibility and do what you need to do to take care of loved ones. At the end of the day we're the ones who've probably instigated the meeting, turned up, spent intimate time with the lady and ended up proposing. The hard work starts at this point

Sadly not every relationship works out but this guys a day late and a dollar short. Again, I'm not sure how much he jests with the language or perhaps provokes but its extremely disrespectful when discussing a real person who's taking it seriously. It's like he thinks he's actually buying a mail order bride.

The lesson here though is that the story you've shared with us Chris, comes from guys who make it work. Most of us have something similar to tell. Flip the coin and you get the bloke in this thread and it'll never work.

I'm glad this is here for others to learn from.

Spot on Rosco, and well said as usual  tiphat
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Dogsoldier on October 12, 2018, 11:54:44 AM
All of us who’ve been down this path know and understand what a unique relationship it is, being married to a FSUW. Make no mistake, though, there are testing times ahead for anyone who embark on this journey, for all involved. Those foundations had better be strong right from the beginning. If they’re not , well, the grounds going to shift underfoot pretty rapidly.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Markje on October 12, 2018, 11:57:43 AM
My wife wanted to move back to crimea for 3 years. Our relationship kept her here. Now her life is busy but she still longs for crimea and has to visit at least 2ce a year
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on October 12, 2018, 12:39:35 PM
So, what should be doing? Calling it off and retreating to his fortress of solitude on the basis of better now than later?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 12, 2018, 02:34:46 PM
He's already exhibited so much indecision, notice he himself said he should have cut ties waaaayy earlier but didn't have the courage to do so.

If you read his posts, I don't even get the sense he loves her let alone likes her.  He's more concerned with how she'll disrupt his life here, how he doesn't want another mistake like his divorce with the ex-wife. 

I'd say he should call it off now.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on October 13, 2018, 07:24:51 AM
So, what should be doing? Calling it off and retreating to his fortress of solitude on the basis of better now than later?

I’d expect him to be honest with both himself and his lady. If he’s not going to go through with it, say so now. If he’s unsure but has genuine feelings for her, then make a go of it.

And that means being accommodating, open minded and willing to compromise. And meet her in NY FFS.

My wife flew into London a few times at the beginning and asked me to meet here there - not a problem. After a while she was comfortable with it and declined future offers of such trips. It’s just normal stuff partners do for each other IMO.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 13, 2018, 02:43:27 PM
It's been close to a year since he proposed.  If he were to break it off he should have done so way earlier.

Also, the 2nd option people have suggested is for her to visit as a tourist and they can live together a bit.  But he's already started the fiancee visa application.  I don't know if she can get a tourist visa now.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on October 17, 2018, 10:48:19 PM
I don’t have a defense for my behavior. But I’ll answer a couple questions and give an update. The first UA girl is out of the hospital and doing ok last time I heard from her.  Current girl is 22 years younger than me. She was denied a tourist visa fall 2017. I didn’t pull the plug yet.  I told her I wouldn’t meet her in NY but that I would try to find someone to help her. I found a translator on CL who said she would meet her. She wasn’t happy about it. Not angry, just a little sad.

The tractor is not a joke. In fact, I bought a second one today with a loader. Now I need to sell the other one. Our power company shut off our electricity for a day due to fire danger. So I bought a generator too. I’m keeping her apprised of all of this. I’m trying to give her a lot of the facts. But I’m leaving out the most important one, that I’m an ass as stated before. many of you know it and you’re correct about most of your negative comments about me.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on October 18, 2018, 03:21:00 AM
JD

the peanut gallery will be speechless. 

Hope you find what you want and  be as honest with her  as you have been with us
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 18, 2018, 03:25:43 AM
justadude, seriously man. you come off as super selfish. you won't even spend the money to meet her halfway in NY but will spend on 2 tractors and a generator?! what the hell man.  :GRRRR: :GRRRR:

She's flying halfway around the world. Her English probably isn't that great. If this is her first time in the USA she'll be scared undoubtedly.

She's gonna be very resentful of how you are behaving if/when she makes it to your city. Plus all your restrictions on meat ain't gonna go well, that's for sure.

Why she hasn't even left you already I don't know. Maybe you offered some fantasy. Man up dawg and do the right thing!



Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on October 18, 2018, 04:15:33 AM
So, you are putting her in the care of some random dude in a strange place. That is probably worse than her going on her own.

What you are setting up looks, from the outside, like setting her up to be kidnapped for white slavery.

Why on earth are you so inflexible and selfish that you can't take a few hours to meet her, take care and reassure her?

Not signals of being a good life partner.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: SL0413 on October 18, 2018, 09:03:02 AM
"10 days in Lvov with an angel"...

If this works out the title should be changed to "10 days in Lvov with a Saint - an awesome fantastic supercalifragilisticexpialidocious saint"

Angels, on the other hand, can be vengeful.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on October 18, 2018, 10:01:19 AM
I don’t have a defense for my behavior. But I’ll answer a couple questions and give an update. The first UA girl is out of the hospital and doing ok last time I heard from her.  Current girl is 22 years younger than me. She was denied a tourist visa fall 2017. I didn’t pull the plug yet.  I told her I wouldn’t meet her in NY but that I would try to find someone to help her. I found a translator on CL who said she would meet her. She wasn’t happy about it. Not angry, just a little sad.

The tractor is not a joke. In fact, I bought a second one today with a loader. Now I need to sell the other one. Our power company shut off our electricity for a day due to fire danger. So I bought a generator too. I’m keeping her apprised of all of this. I’m trying to give her a lot of the facts. But I’m leaving out the most important one, that I’m an ass as stated before. many of you know it and you’re correct about most of your negative comments about me.

Do you have time to reconsider meeting her in NYC?  Sounds like a very good idea to me, why not start things off more positive?

The translator you found for her is a female, yes? IOW ignore Andrew's hyperbole.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on October 18, 2018, 11:35:11 AM
Hyperbole, no. I will bet my customary large amounts of imaginary Internet money that this is just what any of her friends and family who have heard of Justadude's scheme will be saying.

If your kid, adult or not, told you that she was traveling to a strange country and that her port of entry she would be met by a stranger who would 'take care of her' then you'd be rightly concerned. The gender of the person meeting her is irrelevant, except in so far as a sensible person planning malfeasance would use a woman because he'd hope that it might reassure the victim and make the process easier.

While I am sure that Justadude does not intend harm to this woman he is behaving terribly. He is doing nothing that provides reassurance, is being selfish and unthinking. There's no excuse for this stuff.

While I was not among those suggesting he should not continue with this venture, just that he should be more thoughtful, less selfish, at this moment my opinion, for what it is worth, is that he should save his victim a great deal of stress and heartbreak and end things now.

Nothing good is going to come of this selfish folly except in the case that the woman has plans that do not include Justadude.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Wiz on October 18, 2018, 11:43:00 AM
"10 days in Lvov with an angel"...

If this works out the title should be changed to "10 days in Lvov with a Saint - an awesome fantastic supercalifragilisticexpialidocious saint"

Angels, on the other hand, can be vengeful.

Not a bloody chance.......this is definitely a .. :trainwreck: and people should think better before encouraging him to destroy the life of this young woman. He already sent another woman in the Hospital because of his selfish and controlling behaviour and we only have to take his own words about himself! 

"My previous FSU fiance, as I have mentioned in the past, was institutionalized due to conditions induced (in my mind) by the stress of the situation. However, another common factor, me, cannot be overlooked as likely playing a role.

I'm just an ass. Maybe I'm unfit for a relationship and that's why I had to go half way around the world to find a girl."


The above words are not mine but his own.

Forgot sake grow up and tell the girl the truth and cancel her trip. You don't need to send a second woman in hospital ! 

Confed...

Be a good chap and stop trying to find excuses. The life of this new girl is at stake and a "mad professor" is going to destroy it, "because he is an Ass." (his words.)

:evilgrin0002:

Andrew:

Totally agree with your comments which you posted while I was typing mine.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on October 18, 2018, 05:16:46 PM
"10 days in Lvov with an angel"...

If this works out the title should be changed to "10 days in Lvov with a Saint - an awesome fantastic supercalifragilisticexpialidocious saint"

Angels, on the other hand, can be vengeful.

Not a bloody chance.......this is definitely a .. :trainwreck: and people should think better before encouraging him to destroy the life of this young woman. He already sent another woman in the Hospital because of his selfish and controlling behaviour and we only have to take his own words about himself! 

"My previous FSU fiance, as I have mentioned in the past, was institutionalized due to conditions induced (in my mind) by the stress of the situation. However, another common factor, me, cannot be overlooked as likely playing a role.

I'm just an ass. Maybe I'm unfit for a relationship and that's why I had to go half way around the world to find a girl."


The above words are not mine but his own.

Forgot sake grow up and tell the girl the truth and cancel her trip. You don't need to send a second woman in hospital ! 

Confed...

Be a good chap and stop trying to find excuses. The life of this new girl is at stake and a "mad professor" is going to destroy it, "because he is an Ass." (his words.)

:evilgrin0002:

Andrew:

Totally agree with your comments which you posted while I was typing mine.   :thumbsup:

If you read my post again you’ll see that I’m trying to encourage him to meet her in NYC.

We don’t know for sure whether he’s trolling us but if he’s serious he should change his mind, show her some respect and meet her at the port of entry.

Otherwise his detractors are likely correct about his selfishness.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 18, 2018, 05:49:34 PM
I can't figure out why he doesn't want to go to NY. Is it the money or is he just too lazy.  It's less than 5 hours and a few hundred bucks.

If my fiancee was flying halfway around the world to meet me I should as heck would do everything to ensure her safe passage.  Hiring some stranger as  translator is laughable to be honest.

I don't think he's trolling.  He just seems stubborn and very inflexible.

Didn't he break off another relationship with a girl and she wanted to get back together, but he refused. on what grounds I don't know.

My advice is to break it off now.  I don't see this ending well.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on October 18, 2018, 05:54:30 PM
I can't figure out why he doesn't want to go to NY. Is it the money or is he just too lazy.  It's less than 5 hours and a few hundred bucks.

If my fiancee was flying halfway around the world to meet me I should as heck would do everything to ensure her safe passage.  Hiring some stranger as  translator is laughable to be honest.


I noted this reality before and as as others have echoed it is the correct thing to do, you are not flying to Kiev. It will be plus minus 5 hours of air travel for you as compared to the 15 to 25 perhaps plus hours she is spending to come to America.

Another option is spend a few days in Manhattan after arrival and than fly west, young man.

You can go up to Woodbury Commons and go discount factory store shopping, even by bus for the day. Take a Circle Line around Manhattan and see a Broadway Show.

As for breaking it off, it she has built her dreams on this 'foundation'.


While JustaDude I understand you dislike air travel meeting your bride in NYC (or perhaps Amsterdam/Paris) would be a decent thing to do. I assume she is not traveling directly from KBP to JFK.  :THDN:

If you travelled to Paris or Amsterdam she would come to America with her spouse/partner at her arm.[/font][/size]
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 18, 2018, 08:02:47 PM
yeah that's another option, just spend a few days in NY and make a trip out of it.  What's troubling to me is that Justadude doesn't seem fully commited to making sure his fiancee's transition to the USA is as smooth as possible.

It's almost a year with the visa process so he probably doesn't want to quit now, seeing has he has invested time and alot emotionally into it.
But the flip side is, if she is not happy living with him and his conditions she'll want out eventually.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on October 24, 2018, 09:01:55 PM
There is a piece of the puzzle that I won't share here on RUA. Without that, this update is probably going to be even less useful than are my usual prose.

I read some or your pragmatic comments about the translator/guide idea, things I hadn't thought of. Which is probably because I'm not as well traveled nor as smart as many of you. Nevertheless, Natasha (not her real name) liked the idea. If that plan comes to fruition, Inessa (not her real name either) will talk to this female translator herself before she comes. Furthermore, I'll caution Tatsiana (still not her real name) to keep her wits about her and not to leave the airport with this person.

I shared some more information with Katerina (nope). We are talking some things over.  Sorry I don't have any more information for you right now, but hopefully that gives some of the detractors a little more ammo to use against me :)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 24, 2018, 10:59:02 PM
justadude, I got lost...are all those aliases about your girl or you got 3 in rotation?!  :laugh: 

No one's a detractor here, we all want the guys to succeed and have long lasting relationships.  Just the way you are going about things seems counterintuitive to your end goal.

The translator thing seems real odd.  There's a few guys on this board or the other who are from NY and have Russian wives.  It could have been better to use them, rather than a complete stranger you found on craigslist.

So it seems things are in limbo and she is not confirmed to come over?  how long does her fiancee visa last?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on October 25, 2018, 01:28:47 AM
OK, so now you have entered a new stage. Invented people.

Is any of this real?
You getting bored with trolling?
Difficult to keep all the narrative balls in the air?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on October 25, 2018, 01:49:21 AM

No one's a detractor here, we all want the guys to succeed and have long lasting relationships. 

When it comes to relationships - starting or ending - we have lots of 'detractors' who aren't in a relationship, never been married or had kids ..  the trick is to ignore them ...

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on October 25, 2018, 02:29:56 AM
Of course, most, possibly even all posters here have relevant insights and to claim otherwise is either stupid or intentionally dishonest.

Moby, just try to be honest, or less stupid. You and the OP probably share enough in common that even you have relevant insights. For convenience you could possibly precede honest, truthful, posts with the hash tag #notlying?

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 25, 2018, 02:46:27 AM

No one's a detractor here, we all want the guys to succeed and have long lasting relationships. 

When it comes to relationships - starting or ending - we have lots of 'detractors' who aren't in a relationship, never been married or had kids ..  the trick is to ignore them ...

Hmm, 2 ex wifes and now a current "mistress"...lost custody of the kids and didn't pay child support.  60 year old with no roots and keeps jumping between Cyprus and the UK and "road trips" in Russia.  You sure are the poster boy for a great relationship! :laugh: :laugh:

Notice how nobody listens to you or asks for your advice.  Think why that is.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on October 25, 2018, 04:09:49 AM


Hmm, 2 ex wifes and now a current "mistress"...lost custody of the kids and didn't pay child support.  60 year old with no roots and keeps jumping between Cyprus and the UK and "road trips" in Russia.  You sure are the poster boy for a great relationship! :laugh: :laugh:

Notice how nobody listens to you or asks for your advice.  Think why that is.

Wow, someone knew the cap was theirs, that it fitted  and bit ... followed by more patent lies

1/ Why do you feel the constant need to add to my years ?

2/ IF I owed child support - I'd be easy to find  - as you point out - I'm 'all over the net'  :chuckle: - you aren't the sharpest tool in the box re posting stuff with no basis in fact ..

3/ I never contested my kids RESIDENCY - I worked full time and the Mum of our kids was a house-wife ...  you may be confused with HER breaking contact orders ?

4/ I have roots, thanks and financial institutions have my address, same contact phone number of c. two decades and same email addy of 15 years

EVERY post of yours proves your infatuation and inability to handle a valid point

Yes, I've been in two very long  LTRs that didn't work out - one I left and one where I was dumped and boy have a I made mistakes ....  hence my pointing out and you so obligingly biting - that you have zip experience and my suggesting why your posts are somewhat dodgy  - from relationships to places you have been


5/ How is using the term 'current mistress' appropriate given we will v.soon be in our sixth year of a relationship ? t implies some sort of 'seediness' and former RU wife and my fiancee get along just fine.

Carry on - you are really funny






Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on October 25, 2018, 04:18:22 AM
Of course, most, possibly even all posters here have relevant insights and to claim otherwise is either stupid or intentionally dishonest.

Moby, just try to be honest, or less stupid. You and the OP probably share enough in common that even you have relevant insights. For convenience you could possibly precede honest, truthful, posts with the hash tag #notlying?

..and along came the other poster I was referring to ...  and your 'relevant insight' to marriage and raising the fruits of one's loins   ...

Discussing honesty with THE poster who has posted the most suggestions of 'dishonesty' on my part 

Now, you might be lucky and another of my ripostes to your utter bollox re my affairs will disappear ... 

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on October 25, 2018, 04:51:54 AM

No one's a detractor here, we all want the guys to succeed and have long lasting relationships. 

When it comes to relationships - starting or ending - we have lots of 'detractors' who aren't in a relationship, never been married or had kids ..  the trick is to ignore them ...

So based on your theory, you’d be an excellent candidate to provide balanced, thoughtful, rational and truthful advice?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on October 25, 2018, 05:14:39 AM

So based on your theory, you’d be an excellent candidate to provide balanced, thoughtful, rational and truthful advice?

Both a few of us have had more than one LTR involving kids that didn't work out...

So, YES ..  those of us wearing the t-shirt can certainly offer how to do ( and not to do ) it rather than trolling the TRs of others.



JD has fessed up to to his errors and the peanut gallery ..particularly those who are perenially single or 'have many friends who are ladies' had it's say...

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 25, 2018, 05:20:23 AM

So based on your theory, you’d be an excellent candidate to provide balanced, thoughtful, rational and truthful advice?

sorry Rosco at first I thought you were asking me that question but it seems you are asking Moby.

I've lived/worked in Russia, speak Russian, dated/had relationships with several ladies.  Can't speak for anyone else but I can only offer my experiences.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on October 25, 2018, 07:14:44 AM
OK, so now you have entered a new stage. Invented people.

Is any of this real?
You getting bored with trolling?
Difficult to keep all the narrative balls in the air?

Our hero has renamed his cast of players. In fact I understand this choice. The narrative has neither changed or is he trolling. He is a rather private person and I can respect his choice. We are missing part of the puzzle and that makes it hard to make any judgement.

I suspect in due course we will see how this all plays out.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on October 25, 2018, 07:35:15 AM

So based on your theory, you’d be an excellent candidate to provide balanced, thoughtful, rational and truthful advice?

sorry Rosco at first I thought you were asking me that question but it seems you are asking Moby.

I've lived/worked in Russia, speak Russian, dated/had relationships with several ladies.  Can't speak for anyone else but I can only offer my experiences.

No it was definitely aimed at Moby.

I can’t agree that those in a relationship or who have children, can only offer credible advice. My point being, an imaginary dishonest fellow with a string of broken relationships in the broadest sense, can’t be considered more valuable than a young, single intelligent bloke with good intentions....for example.

But back to Justadude.......what more can really be said.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 25, 2018, 08:35:29 AM
Moby hasn't even given any good advice to Jdude.  He's more concerned with telling us he's the "expert" here rather than actually helping.  he couldn't care 2 bits about the OP.

When's the last time he went on a date with a 20 or 30 something Russian girl?  Probably never!  His 2 Russian partners were older ladies at a different stage in their lives.


This girl that Jdude is bringing to the USA is a mid 20's girl who has never left Ukraine and can barely speak English. 
I don't know what this "piece of the puzzle" he's referring to is.  I hope Jdude has an ace up his sleeve and the girl will be convinced he's the one.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 25, 2018, 08:47:09 AM
Moby for the record if you aren't over 60 how old are you?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on October 25, 2018, 09:52:44 AM
Perhaps the Guile versus Moby stuff could be moved to another thread, than the those two have there own sand box.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on October 25, 2018, 10:03:25 AM
Moby for the record if you aren't over 60 how old are you?

59 years and 10 months.  :laugh:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Bruce Lee on October 25, 2018, 10:21:57 AM
Perhaps the Guile versus Moby stuff could be moved to another thread, than the those two have there own sand box.
It had place, that was locked in the optimistic hope it would bring and end to it.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on October 25, 2018, 10:46:53 AM
Moby for the record if you aren't over 60 how old are you?

59 years and 10 months.  :laugh:

59 years, 10 months and 29 days?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: yankee on October 25, 2018, 10:53:46 AM
Perhaps the Guile versus Moby stuff could be moved to another thread, than the those two have there own sand box.


I suggest another forum.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on October 25, 2018, 03:14:33 PM
Perhaps the Guile versus Moby stuff could be moved to another thread, than the those two have there own sand box.

I suggest another forum.

Looney Tunes?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on October 25, 2018, 07:30:09 PM
guys let's wrap it up and get back on topic...I'm more interested in what Jdude's gonna do.

he hasn't made much effort to meet his girl nor get her acclimated here.  if she decides to eat meat in the house sparks gonna fly!

The way it's going down I don't give it good odds but he might be able to pull a rabbit outta the hat.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on October 30, 2018, 07:04:33 PM
Today I bought her plane ticket. She will arrive toward the end of November. I guess that's really the only news for now.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on October 30, 2018, 07:44:24 PM
Today I bought her plane ticket. She will arrive toward the end of November. I guess that's really the only news for now.

Congratulations, I think...
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on November 02, 2018, 05:17:55 PM
I guess Visa waiver program is not reciprocal between US and Ukraine.   :-\
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on November 02, 2018, 05:36:36 PM
I guess Visa waiver program is not reciprocal between US and Ukraine.   :-\

Mos likely not for cats on four feet.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 06, 2018, 08:46:47 AM
so you're gonna go through with this?  yet still won't pony up a few hundred bucks to meet her in NY.  most guys who have their fiancee coming over would be jumping for joy.  when I read your posts it sounds like this is a huge burden for you. ???
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on November 06, 2018, 08:48:02 AM
Welcome back, that was a fast week!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 06, 2018, 08:53:02 AM
Welcome back, that was a fast week!

haha thanks Andrew...i see our resident "natural English speaker" is still up to his usual antics.  :laugh: :chuckle:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on November 09, 2018, 04:59:26 PM
Another update. Inspired by Shakespear I contacted a couple attorneys about a prenup. Based on the info I gained I contacted my fiancé and told her that I want one. I wrote an 11 point list to her. She agreed with 9 of the 11. So we will work out the remaining 2. The rules are that she must have her own bilingual California attorney to help her understand it.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on November 09, 2018, 05:15:31 PM
Another update. Inspired by Shakespear I contacted a couple attorneys about a prenup. Based on the info I gained I contacted my fiancé and told her that I want one. I wrote an 11 point list to her. She agreed with 9 of the 11. So we will work out the remaining 2. The rules are that she must have her own bilingual California attorney to help her understand it.


This sounds like progress as well as a very good idea.

Congratulations that you’re slowly making progress.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 09, 2018, 05:18:14 PM
Well at least he's protectinng his back.  I just hope he's doing the same with the relationship.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on November 10, 2018, 04:22:56 AM
What does she get out of the deal if a wheel falls off and/or she decides she doesn't want to live in the woods and carry firewood each day? Poor bint gets to buy her own return ticket for her and her cat and go back to no job or money?

Could she overturn the prenup if it was presented to her as a condition after the fiancee visa was granted (as it was) and so therefore was signed (bilingually or not) under duress? Maybe she could get crowdfunding for that..............

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 10, 2018, 05:11:31 AM
the problem is that justadude admits he's a selfish guy looking after his own interests.  hence the prenup, the tractors, not flying to NY to meet her, not buying tickets.

I don't see any steps he's done to try and strengthen his relationship.  If I were that girl I'd be outta there first thing. as they say in Top Gun "crash and burn, Mav"
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on November 10, 2018, 05:19:11 AM
JustaDude, How are you doing regarding the wild fires?

This is the most stressful time for this type of relationship it seems. To increase that by organizing a prenuptial from abroad, that seems premature. Perhaps a discussion in broad terms, but see if she enjoys California living.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on November 15, 2018, 10:53:23 PM


Could she overturn the prenup if it was presented to her as a condition after the fiancee visa was granted (as it was) and so therefore was signed (bilingually or not) under duress? Maybe she could get crowdfunding for that..............
It's a good point and one that concerns me. I discussed it with one attorney and he said this is a concern but that there is not way around it. It should help that I've documented that she has seen the basics of the agreement before she quit her job and came here.

I need to choose an attorney and get on with it. I have been busy with other things. I'll make it a goal for my week off next week.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on November 15, 2018, 10:57:27 PM
JustaDude, How are you doing regarding the wild fires?

This is the most stressful time for this type of relationship it seems. To increase that by organizing a prenuptial from abroad, that seems premature. Perhaps a discussion in broad terms, but see if she enjoys California living.


Yes I think that is what will transpire. She has a lot on her plate over the next couple of weeks. She has already gotten a detailed heads up about it. I guess I can wait until she arrives to formalize it and hire attorneys for both of us. I think this will cost me some where around $1000 to $2500.

Thanks for asking about the fires. I live 2 hours from the town of Paradise which was wiped off the map with thousands of homes burned. Thge whole town is gone. Smoke in the valley caused my school to be closed tomorrow. It is pretty amazing what is happening here.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on November 16, 2018, 03:21:09 AM
JustaDude, How are you doing regarding the wild fires?

This is the most stressful time for this type of relationship it seems. To increase that by organizing a prenuptial from abroad, that seems premature. Perhaps a discussion in broad terms, but see if she enjoys California living.


Yes I think that is what will transpire. She has a lot on her plate over the next couple of weeks. She has already gotten a detailed heads up about it. I guess I can wait until she arrives to formalize it and hire attorneys for both of us. I think this will cost me some where around $1000 to $2500.

Thanks for asking about the fires. I live 2 hours from the town of Paradise which was wiped off the map with thousands of homes burned. Thge whole town is gone. Smoke in the valley caused my school to be closed tomorrow. It is pretty amazing what is happening here.

If I was some women arriving in the US and within a couple of weeks the guy was arranging me to meet his attorney and talking about this sort of stuff firstly I would think "Have you got some kind of mental problem!!"  Secondly I would be on the next flight home!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on November 16, 2018, 04:58:37 AM
Question, now that you are running with the idea put in your head by Shakespear, what is your intention if your fiancée doesn't agree the terms you intend to impose upon her?

I recall another poster here who suggested that for 'normal men' of normal means a fair prenup offered no benefit to the man. I doubt that as a teacher you'd be anything other than normal in terms of your wealth. What did your lawyer suggest in terms of the agreement you have already outlined to your fiancée?

Is the prenup plan a way to put the decision to end your relationship upon the woman who has given up everything for you?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on November 16, 2018, 05:36:59 AM
Bear in mind our hero lives in California, which is especially unfair in divorce/alimony settlements towards the weaker party. Whether ANY 'pre-nup' will hold up in court is an important question.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on November 16, 2018, 07:18:51 AM
I feel sorry for the poor women!! All this details being discussed online for the whole world to see... (:)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on November 16, 2018, 09:34:03 AM
We've proven that I'm not that smart but that I'm also cheap. In my perception I do have something worth protecting. If you google California teacher salaries for a 24 year veteran with a master's degree it might be a little different than you imagined. Also, I got pretty lucky in real estate when I bought a couple properties at the bottom of the market in 2012. My first wife got half of my retirement and $2000/month in alimony and child support in the divorce because she didn't work. I don't want a repeat.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 16, 2018, 09:42:18 AM
justadude we get that you want to protect your assets and not get burned again.

Your 1 wife gets half your pension? damn brah.  Hope the alimony isn't for life either.

Joe Rogan did a podcast on women who got rich from divorce settelements.  Nasty stuff.


They are basically stealing.  So you better get that pre-nup solid. but how's she feeling about everything, is she excited to be coming over?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on November 16, 2018, 09:46:41 AM
You know what they say about alimony, It is the screwing you get for the screwing you had.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on November 16, 2018, 11:38:29 AM
This topic American Grammar has been moved to General Chat  (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?board=14.0).

http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=27625.0 (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=27625.0)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 16, 2018, 11:38:34 AM
so justadude, is your fiancee excited about coming over and did you get the translator? 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on November 16, 2018, 11:43:11 AM
We've proven that I'm not that smart but that I'm also cheap. In my perception I do have something worth protecting. If you google California teacher salaries for a 24 year veteran with a master's degree it might be a little different than you imagined. Also, I got pretty lucky in real estate when I bought a couple properties at the bottom of the market in 2012. My first wife got half of my retirement and $2000/month in alimony and child support in the divorce because she didn't work. I don't want a repeat.

Is it just in the US the wife gets half your pension? never heard of it in the UK .. and what if the wife has her own pension also? she gets half yours and her own?

Its better to shoot her! Say you lost the lost, in the Uk you will get just 7/8 years if you have some lefty judge and it will probably be an open prison so home on the weekends ..

If it happened to me for absolute sure I would get rid of the wife.. life is way to short for all of that shit, you may live till your 95.. or older..
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 16, 2018, 01:48:05 PM
Steveboy don't know if you are being serious about shooting her or killing people you don't like.  Seems like a rather "morbid" solution.  :chuckle:

Now if you like jails for the rest of your life go right ahead.   ???
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on November 16, 2018, 02:19:05 PM
Steveboy don't know if you are being serious about shooting her or killing people you don't like.  Seems like a rather "morbid" solution.  :chuckle:

Now if you like jails for the rest of your life go right ahead.   ???

 
No Im not morbid!! For me in life all is black and white , everyones problems are their own problems , you make your bed in life so sleep in it..dont waste your breath complaining about it.

And if you need to fix a problem Sometimes extreme measures need to be taken, yes its not good and there are always casualties but thats life..

Just like when the US invaded Iraq  :laugh:

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on November 16, 2018, 09:35:19 PM
justadude we get that you want to protect your assets and not get burned again.

Your 1 wife gets half your pension? damn brah.  Hope the alimony isn't for life either.

Joe Rogan did a podcast on women who got rich from divorce settelements.  Nasty stuff.


They are basically stealing.  So you better get that pre-nup solid. but how's she feeling about everything, is she excited to be coming over?

My ex got half of the pension for the 14 years I had that job while we were married. She got alimony for 5 years until she remarried. I paid child support until 2 years ago when my daughter turned 18. But now I pay the same amount directly to her to get her through college.

After a little more searching I'm back to being pretty scared and thinking of pulling the plug again. It seems that it's impossible for a prenup to set aside the obligation you make to support an immigrant through I-864, the affidavit you sign before adjustment of status can happen. You're on the hook for 10 years to support the immigrant at 125% of the poverty level. I think this law is pretty stupid but I had access to this information before I did any of this so it's my fault for not fully considering it.

Yes, she is very excited and she gave notice at her 8 year career job! I'm back to sweating bullets.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on November 17, 2018, 08:43:34 AM
It seems that it's impossible for a prenup to set aside the obligation you make to support an immigrant through I-864, the affidavit you sign before adjustment of status can happen. You're on the hook for 10 years to support the immigrant at 125% of the poverty level. I think this law is pretty stupid but I had access to this information before I did any of this so it's my fault for not fully considering it.

Do you not think it reasonable that you bear some responsibility if you import someone and the wheels fall off? Should the American taxpayer have to foot the bill for your lifestyle choices? I'd say not.

she gave notice at her 8 year career job!

I'm back to being pretty scared and thinking of pulling the plug again.

If you pull that stunt on her at this stage you are not a man. Grow a pair, stop procrastinating and make it work. You made the decision, stick to it and follow through. You are playing with this woman's life here.


Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 17, 2018, 10:31:50 AM



I'm back to being pretty scared and thinking of pulling the plug again.



geeezus justadude you are worse than a teenager who can't decide if he wants vanilla or chocolate ice cream.  just pull the damn plug. it's obvious your mind is on your money and losing everything.  Once bitten twice shy we get it.

This ain't some local girl who you can break up with.  You started the K1 visa, you bought the tickets, you had a YEAR to plan it out.

That you got pre-nup info from a forum at the last minute shows you aren't prepared for anything.  You're more worried about buying tractors and playing with your toys.  Can't be half arsed to evenn meet her half way, your supposed "wife".


You better start planning a contingency if she does leave you. 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on November 17, 2018, 11:27:11 AM



I'm back to being pretty scared and thinking of pulling the plug again.



geeezus justadude you are worse than a teenager who can't decide if he wants vanilla or chocolate ice cream.  just pull the damn plug. it's obvious your mind is on your money and losing everything.  Once bitten twice shy we get it.

This ain't some local girl who you can break up with.  You started the K1 visa, you bought the tickets, you had a YEAR to plan it out.

That you got pre-nup info from a forum at the last minute shows you aren't prepared for anything.  You're more worried about buying tractors and playing with your toys.  Can't be half arsed to evenn meet her half way, your supposed "wife".


You better start planning a contingency if she does leave you.

You're right about all of this
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 17, 2018, 12:27:04 PM
well then cancel the whole thing and take a breather.  Go to Ukraine for a few months if you really want to be with her.  But you don't like to fly so that's out.  I don't know what else to say.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on November 17, 2018, 12:32:00 PM
It seems that it's impossible for a prenup to set aside the obligation you make to support an immigrant through I-864, the affidavit you sign before adjustment of status can happen. You're on the hook for 10 years to support the immigrant at 125% of the poverty level. I think this law is pretty stupid but I had access to this information before I did any of this so it's my fault for not fully considering it.

Do you not think it reasonable that you bear some responsibility if you import someone and the wheels fall off? Should the American taxpayer have to foot the bill for your lifestyle choices? I'd say not.

she gave notice at her 8 year career job!

I'm back to being pretty scared and thinking of pulling the plug again.

If you pull that stunt on her at this stage you are not a man. Grow a pair, stop procrastinating and make it work. You made the decision, stick to it and follow through. You are playing with this woman's life here.

Well I agree with Manny 100%!  :thumbsup:

Hey Just A Dude I've tried to be consistent and root for you but you do make it difficult. I even played along as I figured you were trolling your audience here.

But now it's time to put on the big boy pants and make this work!  She obviously must be a really great gal, she made the ticket thing work for her cat situation when some other drama queens would have been screaming at you.

She's been really damn patient and committed to you, isn't it time you returned with the same level or better commitment?

You're not in Junior High School here, this isn't a game.  You'll always regret it also if you flake out now.  Just be the man you need to be.  IOW Just A Man should be your new moniker but for real.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on November 17, 2018, 12:37:53 PM
It seems that it's impossible for a prenup to set aside the obligation you make to support an immigrant through I-864, the affidavit you sign before adjustment of status can happen. You're on the hook for 10 years to support the immigrant at 125% of the poverty level. I think this law is pretty stupid but I had access to this information before I did any of this so it's my fault for not fully considering it.

Do you not think it reasonable that you bear some responsibility if you import someone and the wheels fall off? Should the American taxpayer have to foot the bill for your lifestyle choices? I'd say not.

she gave notice at her 8 year career job!

I'm back to being pretty scared and thinking of pulling the plug again.

If you pull that stunt on her at this stage you are not a man. Grow a pair, stop procrastinating and make it work. You made the decision, stick to it and follow through. You are playing with this woman's life here.

Well I agree with Manny 100%!  :thumbsup:

Hey Just A Dude I've tried to be consistent and root for you but you do make it difficult. I even played along as I figured you were trolling your audience here.

But now it's time to put on the big boy pants and make this work!  She obviously must be a really great gal, she made the ticket thing work for her cat situation when some other drama queens would have been screaming at you.

She's been really damn patient and committed to you, isn't it time you returned with the same level or better commitment?

You're not in Junior High School here, this isn't a game.  You'll always regret it also if you flake out now.  Just be the man you need to be.  IOW Just A Man should be your new moniker but for real.

Well said Confederate.  :thumbsup:

JustaDude, you are not being a dude, you are being a wishy washy quiche eater!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 17, 2018, 12:41:47 PM
The problem is no amount of exhorting will make him change.  It's like he doesn't even know if he wants a girlfriend let alone a wife.

People told him to meet her halfway, he wouldn't.  He won't compromise on eating meat in the house issue.  that will cause more friction.
Has he even lived with this girl before?   Her English is poor enough that she needs a translator at the airport. 

And say she does want out of the marriage after a short time, then what?  She'll have quit her job and flew to the states for nothing.

He's a cheapskate selfish dude and that's the truth.  But hey, it's his life.   :biggrin:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Halo on November 17, 2018, 12:54:19 PM
After a little more searching I'm back to being pretty scared and thinking of pulling the plug again. It seems that it's impossible for a prenup to set aside the obligation you make to support an immigrant through I-864, the affidavit you sign before adjustment of status can happen. You're on the hook for 10 years to support the immigrant at 125% of the poverty level. I think this law is pretty stupid but I had access to this information before I did any of this so it's my fault for not fully considering it.

Yes, she is very excited and she gave notice at her 8 year career job! I'm back to sweating bullets.

It's not stupid.  If you are importing someone into the country, you should have to reimburse the state if they end up costing taxpayers money.  Having said that, the likelihood of an FSUW ending up on welfare is pretty remote.  They typically work harder than locals.  If you really want to ensure that your pension is protected, fund her schooling.  If she's an accountant, that's a fairly transferable skill, with some upgrading to ensure she knows GAAP standards.  If you want the gold standard, look into her becoming a CPA.

I really think on this front, you are worrying about nothing.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Halo on November 17, 2018, 01:09:30 PM
Halo

Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
« Reply #373 on: Today at 12:54:19 PM »
QuoteAdd Multi Quote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

Halo is back. get da donk outta here no one wants to talk to you. sicko.

Mr. Incel weighs in.

Billy's facts were wrong.  Someone gave me the information and I passed it on to GQ in a PM.  But you are one to pass judgment.  You bragged about stalking moby offline. You even knew where he was at given times. 

But, I digress.  Another thing - have her bring her school transcripts.  If you still have time, go to a school and look into what she will need to get any credit.  I know that in some professions, university educations will transfer, at least partially.  Who knows?  If you do that and things go south, she may end up paying you.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on November 17, 2018, 01:20:45 PM

Another thing - have her bring her school transcripts.  If you still have time, go to a school and look into what she will need to get any credit.  I know that it some professions, university educations will transfer, at least partially.  Who knows?  If you do that and things go south, she may end up paying you.

Very good post.  :thumbsup:

(and FTFY both)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Halo on November 17, 2018, 01:28:56 PM
I would also say that the prenup is a good idea.  I know a lot of Ukrainians, mostly through church.  There is a trend here for UW to marry a man, stay a few years, and then leave him, suing for property.  I know a fair number of UW who have ended up with homes, the man's cars, his money, and my province is nowhere near as liberal as California in distribution of matrimonial property.  A lot of the women go back, because for $50,000, they can live like royalty in Ukraine.  Those getting more in divorce settlements buy apartments in Bulgaria on the Black Sea.  There are regions where they can buy apartments for very little.

Were I advising justadude, I would have that prenup drafted, translated, and sent to her while she is still in Ukraine.  Were I fighting the prenup, I would argue it was signed under duress - she was alone in the country, with only 90 days to make a decision, she had no supports here - no family, no friends, didn't know the country, etc.

I see things a little differently than you, Confed, on the cat front. 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 17, 2018, 01:29:45 PM
Confed this girl can barely speak any English.  She'll need a translator just at NY airport!

Doubt she will be able to understand a lecture in English let alone a simple conversation.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on November 17, 2018, 01:32:11 PM
Confed this girl can barely speak any English.  She'll need a translator just at NY airport!

Doubt she will be able to understand a lecture in English let alone a simple conversation.

Those women are really dedicated, once she's there I bet she does just fine!  :plane:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 17, 2018, 01:41:53 PM

Those women are really dedicated, once she's there I bet she does just fine!  :plane:

Perhaps, if she's self motivated.  But have you seen all the immigrants in SoCal who barely speak English?  That's cause they have the infrastructure in place for their mother tongue.  Especially the Asians.  And if you are rich you don't need it.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 17, 2018, 01:47:56 PM
justadude you better be giving this girl flowers, candy, chocolates and a whole lot more when she arrives. don't fuk it up dude.

She left her entire life for you and you better man up. I don't care how much money you lost to alimony and how screwed you felt.

I'd surprise her in NY and show up.  Do something good for once. if you need a translator hell I'll even translate for you seeing as most people here don't speak good Russian.



Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on November 17, 2018, 03:08:57 PM
  Another thing - have her bring her school transcripts.  If you still have time, go to a school and look into what she will need to get any credit.  I know that in some professions, university educations will transfer, at least partially.  Who knows?  If you do that and things go south, she may end up paying you.

Good point. I'll  ask her about that. The thing is, she does not want to be an accountant any more. She wants to try something new, but she doesn't know what. Although I understand this, I would feel better if she wanted to do what you say and stay in accounting.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on November 17, 2018, 04:05:56 PM
Cancel the thing, send her money to tide her over while she finds a new job. You're not in a place to get married, you're not committed to marriage or her, you have not prepared for her arrival in any real sense.

If you can write here, now about ending things with her at this stage then you're not up to the job of being her man - or any woman's man. Don't destroy her life any more than you have.

At this point I'd expect you to be fighting for her, to be actively working to make things better for her, to have been discussing and planning how she will make her life with you.

You shouldn't need to be told about transcripts of qualifications at this stage; that should have been sorted out months ago. Given your background qualifications stuff should be a given.

If you haven't thought about that then what else remains unthought of and undone?

Have you arranged for her health care?
Have you researched her language study options?
Have you sorted out her driving license transfer?

What kind of a game are you playing here?

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on November 17, 2018, 10:05:40 PM
After a little more searching I'm back to being pretty scared and thinking of pulling the plug again. It seems that it's impossible for a prenup to set aside the obligation you make to support an immigrant through I-864, the affidavit you sign before adjustment of status can happen. You're on the hook for 10 years to support the immigrant at 125% of the poverty level. I think this law is pretty stupid but I had access to this information before I did any of this so it's my fault for not fully considering it.

Yes, she is very excited and she gave notice at her 8 year career job! I'm back to sweating bullets.

She's going to live with you and eventually learn your heart isn't in the right place and when she learns that, it's not a question of if she will leave you but a question of when.


Billy's facts were wrong.  Someone gave me the information and I passed it on to GQ in a PM. 

My facts aren't wrong. You passed full names and contact info of members and their family's social media pages. Are you going to lie and deny it? I seen it all. You claim you have a supplier of this info that you passed around but it's still you that passed it around. How many people on this forum you know intimate details about? You also tell people my wife doesn't like sex with me. Other people's sex lives are your business now? I bet you like all the fake news you read about Trump since fake news is your specialty. Based on your behavior, you've earned a reputation. Enjoy.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: B.B. on November 18, 2018, 12:48:13 AM
It seems that it's impossible for a prenup to set aside the obligation you make to support an immigrant through I-864, the affidavit you sign before adjustment of status can happen. You're on the hook for 10 years to support the immigrant at 125% of the poverty level. I think this law is pretty stupid but I had access to this information before I did any of this so it's my fault for not fully considering it.

Do you not think it reasonable that you bear some responsibility if you import someone and the wheels fall off? Should the American taxpayer have to foot the bill for your lifestyle choices? I'd say not.

she gave notice at her 8 year career job!

I'm back to being pretty scared and thinking of pulling the plug again.

If you pull that stunt on her at this stage you are not a man. Grow a pair, stop procrastinating and make it work. You made the decision, stick to it and follow through. You are playing with this woman's life here.

What Manny said.

It's time to nut up, my friend.

B/B
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: B.B. on November 18, 2018, 12:58:03 AM
It seems that it's impossible for a prenup to set aside the obligation you make to support an immigrant through I-864, the affidavit you sign before adjustment of status can happen. You're on the hook for 10 years to support the immigrant at 125% of the poverty level. I think this law is pretty stupid but I had access to this information before I did any of this so it's my fault for not fully considering it.

Yes, she is very excited and she gave notice at her 8 year career job! I'm back to sweating bullets.

So set the pre-nup equal to 125% of the poverty level, or $15512.50.  On the whole, you'd be getting off light.  Also, it would be a defensible benchmark - "Hey, if it's good enough fo the government..." - with the strong caveat that the enforceability of pre-nups is dependent on state law.

Anyway, this is all stuff you should have thought through before.  Now's she's quit her job.  How much of an ass are you to let her do that and then get cold feet?

B/B

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on November 18, 2018, 02:59:19 AM
Almost certainly better that he does the right thing and pulls out now rather than to have her come to the United States.

The 'proper' man recognises his situation and deals with it.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on November 18, 2018, 04:43:09 AM
What about turning Gay?? Find yourself a man instead.. ok I know its probably not what you planned in life.. but what the heck everyone is doing it now :laugh:

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Halo on November 18, 2018, 10:10:33 AM


Cancel the thing, send her money to tide her over while she finds a new job. You're not in a place to get married, you're not committed to marriage or her, you have not prepared for her arrival in any real sense.

If you can write here, now about ending things with her at this stage then you're not up to the job of being her man - or any woman's man. Don't destroy her life any more than you have.

At this point I'd expect you to be fighting for her, to be actively working to make things better for her, to have been discussing and planning how she will make her life with you.

You shouldn't need to be told about transcripts of qualifications at this stage; that should have been sorted out months ago. Given your background qualifications stuff should be a given.

If you haven't thought about that then what else remains unthought of and undone?

Have you arranged for her health care?
Have you researched her language study options?
Have you sorted out her driving license transfer?

What kind of a game are you playing here?

I view his posts as more "cold feet" than anything else.  The reality is, most every AM who marries an FSUW does so as a leap of faith, because he has not spent time with her, he doesn't know her, really.  Moreover, a couple is always strangers until they live together.

In his shoes, I would go ahead with her arriving, and set a wedding date late in the 90 days (between days 85 and 88).  By 60 days in, he will know if he wants this.

justadude, listen to your intuition.  Fears are normal, but if your gut is telling you this is not right, then it isn't.  If you do decide not to marry her, give her $5600, which amounts to a year's salary at the average wage in Ukraine, to get through what she will have to.  If you're a gentleman, you may want to up it to $10,000.

As for education, if she doesn't want to be an accountant, you should not force your will on her.  In your shoes, I would tell her it is a stable job that she can do from home, get qualified, dip her feet, and then decide what else she may be interested in.  I think it is more the stability I'd be selling.  The first thing, though, is intense ESL classes.

From the posts you have made, TBH, you sound like somewhat of a control freak - she will do this.  I want this, so she will do that.   If this perception is accurate, your marriage will fail.  It's inevitable.  The only issue is whether it takes her 2 years or 20 to get tired of your attitudes.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on November 18, 2018, 12:01:03 PM
The topic "BillyB and Halo Chatting" has been moved to Off Topic & Heated Discussion as it had **no place** on this chaps trip report.

http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=27641.0 (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=27641.0)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on November 18, 2018, 12:17:43 PM
What about turning Gay?? Find yourself a man instead.. ok I know its probably not what you planned in life.. but what the heck everyone is doing it now :laugh:

I take it your matchmaking site for gay Russians is coming along?  :laugh:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Wiz on November 18, 2018, 12:52:10 PM

From the posts you have made, TBH, you sound like somewhat of a control freak - she will do this.  I want this, so she will do that.   If this perception is accurate, your marriage will fail.  It's inevitable. The only issue is whether it takes her 2 years or 20 to get tired of your attitudes.

Early in this post, I indicated, together with other members, my view that this relationship is a :trainwreck: in the making ...... and he should change direction.

I will not describe my opinion about his behaviour but I am sure he is not the kind of character to make an international relationship to work. I just feel sorry for the poor woman from Lvov, who trusted such a heartless and selfish character......... because that is how he is coming through, every time he posts something new development. :sick0012:

 :coffeeread:


Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on November 18, 2018, 01:12:08 PM


Cancel the thing, send her money to tide her over while she finds a new job. You're not in a place to get married, you're not committed to marriage or her, you have not prepared for her arrival in any real sense.

If you can write here, now about ending things with her at this stage then you're not up to the job of being her man - or any woman's man. Don't destroy her life any more than you have.

At this point I'd expect you to be fighting for her, to be actively working to make things better for her, to have been discussing and planning how she will make her life with you.

You shouldn't need to be told about transcripts of qualifications at this stage; that should have been sorted out months ago. Given your background qualifications stuff should be a given.

If you haven't thought about that then what else remains unthought of and undone?

Have you arranged for her health care?
Have you researched her language study options?
Have you sorted out her driving license transfer?

What kind of a game are you playing here?

I view his posts as more "cold feet" than anything else.

I disagree.

From his posts, he displays an obvious lack of respect, understanding and empathy for his bride to be. He expects her to be delivered to his door, at a time suitable for him and she must conform to a lifestyle he sets.

Now he’s looking to get a legal document drawn up, so when it comes to disposing of his toy, he’ll be protected as best he can whilst she’s dumped like trash. From what he’s written in this thread alone, it’s not right and he shouldn’t be getting any support.

If he imports her, uses her, gets bored and dumps her, I hope she takes him to the cleaners. This lady has given up her life to move to him and he’s already trying to work out how to dump her on the cheap.

Horrible.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Bruce Lee on November 18, 2018, 01:51:45 PM


Cancel the thing, send her money to tide her over while she finds a new job. You're not in a place to get married, you're not committed to marriage or her, you have not prepared for her arrival in any real sense.

If you can write here, now about ending things with her at this stage then you're not up to the job of being her man - or any woman's man. Don't destroy her life any more than you have.

At this point I'd expect you to be fighting for her, to be actively working to make things better for her, to have been discussing and planning how she will make her life with you.

You shouldn't need to be told about transcripts of qualifications at this stage; that should have been sorted out months ago. Given your background qualifications stuff should be a given.

If you haven't thought about that then what else remains unthought of and undone?

Have you arranged for her health care?
Have you researched her language study options?
Have you sorted out her driving license transfer?

What kind of a game are you playing here?

I view his posts as more "cold feet" than anything else.

I disagree.

From his posts, he displays an obvious lack of respect, understanding and empathy for his bride to be. He expects her to be delivered to his door, at a time suitable for him and she must conform to a lifestyle he sets.

Now he’s looking to get a legal document drawn up, so when it comes to disposing of his toy, he’ll be protected as best he can whilst she’s dumped like trash. From what he’s written in this thread alone, it’s not right and he shouldn’t be getting any support.

If he imports her, uses her, gets bored and dumps her, I hope she takes him to the cleaners. This lady has given up her life to move to him and he’s already trying to work out how to dump her on the cheap.

Horrible.
Exactly how I read it as well, folks should hold sympathy and support for the poor woman that had the misfortune to meet this bloke.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on November 18, 2018, 01:59:19 PM
It does help if the Dude does not start multiple threads. From another thread.


I think you should take a novel approach and stop thinking of negative “what if’s” and start thinking of positive what if’s.

Take some time and read about 2TallBill’s life since he got married and how he and his wife have made a life together. Sort of reminds me of the movie “It’s a wonderful life” but better because it’s real.

Then again 2Tall is totally dedicated to his wife, we haven’t seen that attitude of love and devotion out of you.


JustaDude, For a while now you have spoken only about the risks, but never the rewards. Maybe an attitude adjustment is needed?

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 18, 2018, 03:16:55 PM
pull the plug, this ain't gonna work.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on November 18, 2018, 05:40:48 PM
pull the plug, this ain't gonna work.

How do you really feel about this situation?   :ROFL:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on November 18, 2018, 07:01:29 PM


Cancel the thing, send her money to tide her over while she finds a new job. You're not in a place to get married, you're not committed to marriage or her, you have not prepared for her arrival in any real sense.

If you can write here, now about ending things with her at this stage then you're not up to the job of being her man - or any woman's man. Don't destroy her life any more than you have.

At this point I'd expect you to be fighting for her, to be actively working to make things better for her, to have been discussing and planning how she will make her life with you.

You shouldn't need to be told about transcripts of qualifications at this stage; that should have been sorted out months ago. Given your background qualifications stuff should be a given.

If you haven't thought about that then what else remains unthought of and undone?

Have you arranged for her health care?
Have you researched her language study options?
Have you sorted out her driving license transfer?

What kind of a game are you playing here?

I view his posts as more "cold feet" than anything else.  The reality is, most every AM who marries an FSUW does so as a leap of faith, because he has not spent time with her, he doesn't know her, really.  Moreover, a couple is always strangers until they live together.

In his shoes, I would go ahead with her arriving, and set a wedding date late in the 90 days (between days 85 and 88).  By 60 days in, he will know if he wants this.

justadude, listen to your intuition.  Fears are normal, but if your gut is telling you this is not right, then it isn't.  If you do decide not to marry her, give her $5600, which amounts to a year's salary at the average wage in Ukraine, to get through what she will have to.  If you're a gentleman, you may want to up it to $10,000.

As for education, if she doesn't want to be an accountant, you should not force your will on her.  In your shoes, I would tell her it is a stable job that she can do from home, get qualified, dip her feet, and then decide what else she may be interested in.  I think it is more the stability I'd be selling.  The first thing, though, is intense ESL classes.

From the posts you have made, TBH, you sound like somewhat of a control freak - she will do this.  I want this, so she will do that.   If this perception is accurate, your marriage will fail.  It's inevitable.  The only issue is whether it takes her 2 years or 20 to get tired of your attitudes.

Good points and some practical advice.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 18, 2018, 07:42:22 PM

How do you really feel about this situation?   :ROFL:

Lost cause man. this guy won't even put the effort to make the transition as smooth as possible for his girl. now he's worried about losing all his money to someone he could marry. not once have I heard how he loves this girl and will do anything for her. 

That he's asking strangers on a forum to help him out shows how ill prepared he is.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Omega1982 on November 18, 2018, 09:24:23 PM
I understand the woman is making sacrifices but she can always rent her flat in Ukraine and come back home to it.  She will still have her state sponsored health insurance, her pension, etc. 

However, for the man, he can lose one of his houses.  And in the US we need to think about retirement.  Real estate in California is expensive, so the op has a valid point.  We're easily talking 500k usd for an average house in California. 

So rather than criticizxe so much I think we should provide valid experience from either people that have experienced this or people in the field such as realtors, accountants, lawyers.  If you're over 40 you need to think about your nest egg and why take lightly the risk of derailing your life savings and assetts. 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on November 19, 2018, 02:24:16 AM
I understand the woman is making sacrifices but she can always rent her flat in Ukraine and come back home to it.  She will still have her state sponsored health insurance, her pension, etc. 

However, for the man, he can lose one of his houses.  And in the US we need to think about retirement.  Real estate in California is expensive, so the op has a valid point.  We're easily talking 500k usd for an average house in California. 

So rather than criticizxe so much I think we should provide valid experience from either people that have experienced this or people in the field such as realtors, accountants, lawyers.  If you're over 40 you need to think about your nest egg and why take lightly the risk of derailing your life savings and assetts.

If he’s so concerned then maybe he should be thinking equally hard about his relationship and what it really is.

I don’t have anything against someone going through the check list as a matter of course but this guys got nothing positive to say about his future wife, and he’s already planning for the split. It’s rediculous.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Halo on November 19, 2018, 07:51:27 AM
I disagree.

From his posts, he displays an obvious lack of respect, understanding and empathy for his bride to be. He expects her to be delivered to his door, at a time suitable for him and she must conform to a lifestyle he sets.

Now he’s looking to get a legal document drawn up, so when it comes to disposing of his toy, he’ll be protected as best he can whilst she’s dumped like trash. From what he’s written in this thread alone, it’s not right and he shouldn’t be getting any support.

If he imports her, uses her, gets bored and dumps her, I hope she takes him to the cleaners. This lady has given up her life to move to him and he’s already trying to work out how to dump her on the cheap.

Horrible.

You guys are never happy.  I remember you attacking me and telling me I portray my life as "perfect" because I don't complain about my husband.  So make up your mind.:laugh:

I take dude's posts as just one facet of what he is thinking, and it's the facet that concerns him if the worst case "what if's" come true.  That's why he is posting about it.  It's the one where he either needs reassurance, or to bounce ideas off others.  He doesn't need help in considering her good qualities (which, given the large age difference, we can guess :P).
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on November 19, 2018, 08:20:51 AM
I disagree.

From his posts, he displays an obvious lack of respect, understanding and empathy for his bride to be. He expects her to be delivered to his door, at a time suitable for him and she must conform to a lifestyle he sets.

Now he’s looking to get a legal document drawn up, so when it comes to disposing of his toy, he’ll be protected as best he can whilst she’s dumped like trash. From what he’s written in this thread alone, it’s not right and he shouldn’t be getting any support.

If he imports her, uses her, gets bored and dumps her, I hope she takes him to the cleaners. This lady has given up her life to move to him and he’s already trying to work out how to dump her on the cheap.

Horrible.

You guys are never happy.  I remember you attacking me and telling me I portray my life as "perfect" because I don't complain about my husband.  So make up your mind.:laugh:

I take dude's posts as just one facet of what he is thinking, and it's the facet that concerns him if the worst case "what if's" come true.  That's why he is posting about it.  It's the one where he either needs reassurance, or to bounce ideas off others.  He doesn't need help in considering her good qualities (which, given the large age difference, we can guess :P).

Halo, I hold no resentment towards you and have zero scarring from our previous disagreements, and a few we have had. I simply disagree with you here, whether you like it or not.

I'm neither happy or unhappy about what other people do with their lives but I think justadude is wrong in the way he's behaving. This is my opinion (which is largely shared with the more respected members) and its a shame you had to dig up the past.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Halo on November 19, 2018, 09:13:38 AM
I am not offended, nor like or dislike a disagreement on views. If I were offended or disliked anytime anyone disagreed with me, I’d never get laid.

My point was not to dig up the past but rather, to show that perceptions are formed by what is posted.

I can’t know what your thoughts are, you can’t know mine, and neither of us can know the OP’s. That was my point, nothing more.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on November 19, 2018, 09:19:38 AM
While we can not climb inside Justadude's head we can read what he writes. What he writes does not paint a picture of a caring man with the empathy and willingness to compromise that are likely to support the stresses of a cross cultural marriage in a communication compromised environment. The actions that he has told us he has taken, or intends to take support the negative impression that I noted above.

That's why I, for one, have suggested that it might be better for him to cancel his plans until such time as he is mentally prepared for a relationship of the type he has told us he wants and that the woman delivering herself to him seems to want.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on November 19, 2018, 09:26:58 AM
While we can not climb inside Justadude's head...

This doesn't normally preclude you from hilariously inaccurate conclusions with other posters
 :coffeeread:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Halo on November 19, 2018, 09:27:44 AM
From some of the comments on this thread, his intended knows he’s a control freak lacking empathy. These are not generally women who can have the wool pulled over their eyes. 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on November 19, 2018, 09:52:29 AM
Halo, that is possible, however, I am sure that you are aware of the difficulties faced in comprehension when there is little or no shared language. All their communication seems to me via some form of translation.

At the same time we are all unaware of the motivations of this woman.

Given that we have been told by Justadude about his negative impact upon at least one other woman in a similar situation can you honestly say that you'd counsel this woman to continue her plans to come to this guy?

Would you advise a woman (or man) to place herself into a situation where her mental health, at least, was potentially under threat based upon what you had been told by the person to whom he (or she) was being delivered to?

Basically, even if the woman knows there is the possibility of some risk, given the poor quality of their communication, how likely do you honestly think it is that she knows as much as we do about the situation in which she is about to find herself?

Even if driven by desperation, for some unknown reason, would you advise her to continue?

I think that you have likely taken a position that you know is not tenable but prefer to try to justify that position rather than learn, grow, and change your mind. That's OK, that's you and, fortunately you are not in a position to influence this woman.

The only lever available is upon Justadude. It is Justadude who is in a position to take the sensible step of recognising his own, admitted, shortcomings, and taking action to prevent harm by stopping this process before it is too late.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on November 19, 2018, 10:17:01 AM
While we can not climb inside Justadude's head we can read what he writes. What he writes does not paint a picture of a caring man with the empathy and willingness to compromise that are likely to support the stresses of a cross cultural marriage in a communication compromised environment. The actions that he has told us he has taken, or intends to take support the negative impression that I noted above.

That's why I, for one, have suggested that it might be better for him to cancel his plans until such time as he is mentally prepared for a relationship of the type he has told us he wants and that the woman delivering herself to him seems to want.

I agree with Andrews thoughts as to how jad presents himself here.

Even though on the other thread he admits to some trolling his overall attitude is not that of a caring and committed partner.

He’s either going to need to compromise, let’s say on her diet and possibly where they live, or this will not end well.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Halo on November 19, 2018, 10:30:26 AM
She is probably thinking that no matter what happens, she will have a better future in the U.S. than in Ukraine.  That, objectively, is probably true.  If she's pushing 30, her prospects of marriage there are diminished - not impossible, but greatly diminished. 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 19, 2018, 03:54:37 PM
justadude have you looked into offshore accounts and trusts.  Where money can be safely kept even in the case of divorce or alimony.

Look into it and find a good financial advisor.  Not from the big banks. Learn how to layer your money and make things liquid.

Sell all your "toys" and assets.  If the house has a big mortgage still I would consider selling it too and renting.

I worked in London at one of the big banks, think "Premier League".. wealthy clients always find a way to keep their money.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 19, 2018, 03:56:10 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/30/magazine/how-to-hide-400-million.html?_r=0
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on November 19, 2018, 07:11:32 PM
Quote
She is probably thinking that no matter what happens, she will have a better future in the U.S. than in Ukraine. 

Many foreigners (especially those in economic depressed areas) have this impression.  I, myself, who is not native born here thinks that too, but maybe now not so sure.   :chuckle:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 19, 2018, 09:11:33 PM
There are ghettos in the USA too, not everyone is rich.  but at least in Cali the homeless can sleep on Santa Monica beach.  Just don't hit the Greyhound station at night. rough area.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on November 22, 2018, 03:36:21 AM
If she is going through with this because she thinks that even the worst in the US is better than her expectations in Ukraine, is this what a man really looks for in a wife?

Yes, I will marry you, not because you like or respect me but because being with me is better than being beaten every day by your pimp. Hyperbole, yes, but the mechanism is clear. I am sure that even Justadude does not want to marry a woman who will be planning to use him as a stepping stone because that's the outcome of the mechanism Halo suggests she may well be following.

Truth is, I have already said the same as Halo is now saying. But how many guys, normally socialized and mentally healthy, would be willing to accept this paradigm? OK, so the reality is that Justadude has set himself up for this kind of relationship. I'd expect any woman exporting herself to a bloke who behaves as this one says he does to be making extremely self-interested plans, if for no other reason than to protect herself.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Omega1982 on November 22, 2018, 07:37:30 PM
justadude have you looked into offshore accounts and trusts.  Where money can be safely kept even in the case of divorce or alimony.

Look into it and find a good financial advisor.  Not from the big banks. Learn how to layer your money and make things liquid.

Sell all your "toys" and assets.  If the house has a big mortgage still I would consider selling it too and renting.

I worked in London at one of the big banks, think "Premier League".. wealthy clients always find a way to keep their money.

Americans cannot open an account in another country unless uncle Sam is made aware.  And many foreign banks even turn down American clients because of some regulation where the foreign bank is obligated to advise the US government if one of its citizens opens an account. 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on November 22, 2018, 10:02:20 PM
justadude have you looked into offshore accounts and trusts.  Where money can be safely kept even in the case of divorce or alimony.

Look into it and find a good financial advisor.  Not from the big banks. Learn how to layer your money and make things liquid.

Sell all your "toys" and assets.  If the house has a big mortgage still I would consider selling it too and renting.

I worked in London at one of the big banks, think "Premier League".. wealthy clients always find a way to keep their money.

Americans cannot open an account in another country unless uncle Sam is made aware.  And many foreign banks even turn down American clients because of some regulation where the foreign bank is obligated to advise the US government if one of its citizens opens an account.

I bet that rule doesn't apply to the Claytons .. whops sorry I mean the cintons and the bushes ...they don't have that rule in the UK YET..
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 23, 2018, 01:31:46 AM

Americans cannot open an account in another country unless uncle Sam is made aware.  And many foreign banks even turn down American clients because of some regulation where the foreign bank is obligated to advise the US government if one of its citizens opens an account.

There's always ways around uncle Sam   ;D  If you are rich enough banks won't turn you down.  Have you heard of the Cayman Islands?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 23, 2018, 01:35:50 AM
If she is going through with this because she thinks that even the worst in the US is better than her expectations in Ukraine, is this what a man really looks for in a wife?

Truth is, I have already said the same as Halo is now saying. But how many guys, normally socialized and mentally healthy, would be willing to accept this paradigm? OK, so the reality is that Justadude has set himself up for this kind of relationship. I'd expect any woman exporting herself to a bloke who behaves as this one says he does to be making extremely self-interested plans, if for no other reason than to protect herself.

well, justadude has said before he was with some other FSU women and it didn't work out. so he doesn't seem like a total dork.  i'm curious about that one girl who was hospitalized...was that primarily due to his behaviour or something else.

but yeah he isn't making it seem like he really cares about marrying her. if that's the case there are tons of Russian girls already in Cali.  But they probably won't give him the time of day.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on November 23, 2018, 01:50:25 AM
Here comes the silliness: our hero is a teacher. He has a second home. There's no money here, no wealth to hide away. Talk of offshore accounts is just fantasy blah blah blah. This is why others have pointed out before, a pre nuptial agreement is, for most people, pointless. There's nothing to protect, nothing to hide.

And yes, FATCA legislation makes even opening overseas accounts difficult and pointless - even if the aspiring money hider meets the minimum wealth requirements for holding the type of accounts he seeks.

Problem is that, as a result of being poked with a scary stick, our nervous and poorly prepared hero has ended up putting even more pressure upon his, soon to be, wife, making that fraught process even harder.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Omega1982 on November 23, 2018, 03:34:10 AM
You're incorrect Andrew.  Anyone here knows real estate in California is worth top dollar and on top of that we are currently in a housing bubble.  If said marriage were to end before the bubble bursts it will represent a lot of money. 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on November 23, 2018, 04:32:07 AM
Real estate in California can vary wildly in value depending on the region.

Coastal California being the most pricey. With most properties in the multi million dollar range. Though there are some planned communities that the prices are lower. Inland the property values are all over the place, in the mountains about 2.5 hours from LA there is Idyllwild just above Palm Springs. Prices there are from above 1 million to somewhere in the mid 300,000 for something simple. Elsewhere in the mountains the prices can be above half million, with the occasional outlier to the under 50,000.

Having noted this our hero needs a foreign bank account as much as he needs a lobotomy. His net worth does not warrant it.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on November 23, 2018, 06:06:58 AM
You're incorrect Andrew.  Anyone here knows real estate in California is worth top dollar and on top of that we are currently in a housing bubble.  If said marriage were to end before the bubble bursts it will represent a lot of money.

The cost of one's home is not relevant. Ones home is not wealth, having a home is something we all have. It can't be hidden away offshore. Any divorce settlement will account for the need of both parties to have a home. A prenuptial agreement can not therefore stop its sale if required to complete an equitable settlement.

If a point is reached where simply having a home makes one unusual or wealthy then there's other issues than getting married to deal with.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on November 23, 2018, 07:41:31 AM
You're incorrect Andrew.  Anyone here knows real estate in California is worth top dollar and on top of that we are currently in a housing bubble.  If said marriage were to end before the bubble bursts it will represent a lot of money.

The cost of one's home is not relevant. Ones home is not wealth, having a home is something we all have. It can't be hidden away offshore. Any divorce settlement will account for the need of both parties to have a home. A prenuptial agreement can not therefore stop its sale if required to complete an equitable settlement.

If a point is reached where simply having a home makes one unusual or wealthy then there's other issues than getting married to deal with.

An equally important factor is how much equity does JustaDude have in his home. In other words is there a mortgage on the property.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on November 23, 2018, 07:58:02 PM
I don't have much of a factual update. But I'll say I am pretty excited. Just a few days to go until she gets here. Communication has been pleasant and anticipatory. I tried to give her all of the information with which to make her decision to come or not, including some important things I haven't shared with anyone (not RUA either) other than her and close friends.

We have both made our decision so at this point I think there is little to be gained by anything other than making her arrival as fun for her and me as possible. I worked on the house a little today, fixing a couple things I think she'll appreciate. I'm thinking about taking my dogs to a kennel for a couple days to give us some alone time. I have made final arrangements with her translator in NY and she has made email contact with her as well, opting not to make a phone call ahead of time, which I advised. She is making her final arrangements. I'd say wish me the best, but I'm not that delusional))

I'll meet her at the airport with roses. I wonder if I should go with the FSU odd number or go with the American dozen, since she will be receiving them on US soil.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on November 23, 2018, 07:59:34 PM
You're incorrect Andrew.  Anyone here knows real estate in California is worth top dollar and on top of that we are currently in a housing bubble.  If said marriage were to end before the bubble bursts it will represent a lot of money.

Thanks, Omega. If this were a popularity contest you'd certainly be in the minority, but I appreciate the understanding.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 23, 2018, 08:37:29 PM
well good luck jdude... why did you advise her not to talk to the translator before though? 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Wiz on November 23, 2018, 10:47:20 PM
For an FSU woman.... you must give her Odd number.... no matter where on the world!

Which ever number she will appreciate them but the odd number will show you are attentive to her country's customs.

 tiphat
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on November 23, 2018, 11:56:30 PM
An odd number of roses. You can take a Slavic woman out of her country, but you can not take the Slavic out of the woman.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on November 24, 2018, 04:10:58 AM
I don't have much of a factual update. But I'll say I am pretty excited. Just a few days to go until she gets here. Communication has been pleasant and anticipatory. I tried to give her all of the information with which to make her decision to come or not, including some important things I haven't shared with anyone (not RUA either) other than her and close friends.

We have both made our decision so at this point I think there is little to be gained by anything other than making her arrival as fun for her and me as possible. I worked on the house a little today, fixing a couple things I think she'll appreciate. I'm thinking about taking my dogs to a kennel for a couple days to give us some alone time. I have made final arrangements with her translator in NY and she has made email contact with her as well, opting not to make a phone call ahead of time, which I advised. She is making her final arrangements. I'd say wish me the best, but I'm not that delusional))

I'll meet her at the airport with roses. I wonder if I should go with the FSU odd number or go with the American dozen, since she will be receiving them on US soil.

Good luck to you Just a Dude, congratulations!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on November 24, 2018, 11:21:16 AM
I don't have much of a factual update. But I'll say I am pretty excited. Just a few days to go until she gets here. Communication has been pleasant and anticipatory. I tried to give her all of the information with which to make her decision to come or not, including some important things I haven't shared with anyone (not RUA either) other than her and close friends.

We have both made our decision so at this point I think there is little to be gained by anything other than making her arrival as fun for her and me as possible. I worked on the house a little today, fixing a couple things I think she'll appreciate. I'm thinking about taking my dogs to a kennel for a couple days to give us some alone time. I have made final arrangements with her translator in NY and she has made email contact with her as well, opting not to make a phone call ahead of time, which I advised. She is making her final arrangements. I'd say wish me the best, but I'm not that delusional))

I'll meet her at the airport with roses. I wonder if I should go with the FSU odd number or go with the American dozen, since she will be receiving them on US soil.

Good luck.  tiphat

Odd number of roses.  :nod:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Omega1982 on November 24, 2018, 06:38:01 PM
Real estate in California can vary wildly in value depending on the region.

Coastal California being the most pricey. With most properties in the multi million dollar range. Though there are some planned communities that the prices are lower. Inland the property values are all over the place, in the mountains about 2.5 hours from LA there is Idyllwild just above Palm Springs. Prices there are from above 1 million to somewhere in the mid 300,000 for something simple. Elsewhere in the mountains the prices can be above half million, with the occasional outlier to the under 50,000.

Having noted this our hero needs a foreign bank account as much as he needs a lobotomy. His net worth does not warrant it.



You guys sound like the old fogies in Titanic.  So arrogant and out of touch with reality.  If anyone here loses $25 its nothing to us but to someone that makes $100 per month they just lost one week's work.  Justadude isn't rich.  Nobody said that, so why assume that.  All I am saying is that we are educated and intelligent adults should know how the finances work in the USA.  Pensions are gone, and the average social security payment is $1300 per month.  That's why there are many Americans aged 80 that were middle class and are now working at Wal Mart.  A second home is a luxury and in retirement it translates into rental income.  That's what makes the difference between the 80 year old still working at Wal Mart and the 80 year old enjoying a life of retirement with his family.  The US isn't what it used to be and I doubt it will bounce back.  Most Americans have a lot of debt, healthcare costs are skyrocketing.  Let's assume Dude is 45 years, old, he's looking to make the best possible decisions now so that in 20 years he can retire.  If he makes bad decisions it will derail his retirement.  For someone trying to save for retirement in America, life has gotten harder after the 2001 attacks, and then the 2008 financial crash.  Property values, the cost of gas, healthcare costs, food, all have skyrocketed.  Meanwhile for the past ten years banks have paid close to 0% on a savings account.  The stock market just had a bad week.  Gold and silver which were much more affordable around 12 years ago has also skyrocketed. 

All this guy wants is to safeguard what's his.  If the marriage works, I'm sure he will leave everything to her upon his passing.  He's just trying to protect his castle. 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on November 24, 2018, 08:06:37 PM
I'll meet her at the airport with roses. I wonder if I should go with the FSU odd number or go with the American dozen, since she will be receiving them on US soil.

Agree with the other guys here. Stick with odd for now. If you don't give flowers sunlight and water, they will slowly die. If you don't give what your lady needs, she will slowly die. Do you best to take care of her and you'll greatly increase your chances things will turn out alright.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on November 24, 2018, 08:24:13 PM
well good luck jdude... why did you advise her not to talk to the translator before though?
Thanks. I advised her to talk to the translator, but she has chosen not to so far. Maybe because millennials, even Ukrainian ones, don't like to talk on the phone?

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on November 24, 2018, 08:25:10 PM
I'll meet her at the airport with roses. I wonder if I should go with the FSU odd number or go with the American dozen, since she will be receiving them on US soil.

Agree with the other guys here. Stick with odd for now.
OK, odd it is!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on November 24, 2018, 08:26:14 PM
An odd number of roses. You can take a Slavic woman out of her country, but you can not take the Slavic out of the woman.
haha!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on November 24, 2018, 08:37:22 PM
BTW, I sold the extra tractor and a bunch of other extra stuff left over from my RV project. I have one extra truck right now that I need to sell. A part is coming for it in a couple days then I'll put it up for sale. I have a day scheduled for cleaning before she arrives. I made a special place in the house for her cat to voluntarily have some privacy, in case the cat doesn't take to the dogs right away. 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on November 25, 2018, 09:29:40 AM
BTW, I sold the extra tractor and a bunch of other extra stuff left over from my RV project. I have one extra truck right now that I need to sell. A part is coming for it in a couple days then I'll put it up for sale.


Selling your toys is a big move you're making. A few women have told me they want a man who'll love them more than his car. Your fiancée will need a lot of attention as she comes into a new culture and will depend on you. Spending 4 hrs a day under a hood is not a good thing. Get rid of all time consuming projects.

I have a day scheduled for cleaning before she arrives.
 

I spent more that a day cleaning my place before my wife arrived and I still failed to get it clean. My wife easily showed me where I missed spots. She could tell I wasn't a pro at cleaning.

I made a special place in the house for her cat to voluntarily have some privacy, in case the cat doesn't take to the dogs right away. 

Does her cat and your dogs get to eat meat? I remember you saying there's not meat in the house earlier.



Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Markje on November 25, 2018, 12:07:17 PM
BTW, I sold the extra tractor and a bunch of other extra stuff left over from my RV project. I have one extra truck right now that I need to sell. A part is coming for it in a couple days then I'll put it up for sale.


Selling your toys is a big move you're making. A few women have told me they want a man who'll love them more than his car. Your fiancée will need a lot of attention as she comes into a new culture and will depend on you. Spending 4 hrs a day under a hood is not a good thing. Get rid of all time consuming projects.

I have a day scheduled for cleaning before she arrives.
 

I spent more that a day cleaning my place before my wife arrived and I still failed to get it clean. My wife easily showed me where I missed spots. She could tell I wasn't a pro at cleaning.

I made a special place in the house for her cat to voluntarily have some privacy, in case the cat doesn't take to the dogs right away. 

Does her cat and your dogs get to eat meat? I remember you saying there's not meat in the house earlier.

Cats must eat meat or they die.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on November 25, 2018, 12:15:02 PM
BTW, I sold the extra tractor and a bunch of other extra stuff left over from my RV project. I have one extra truck right now that I need to sell. A part is coming for it in a couple days then I'll put it up for sale.


Selling your toys is a big move you're making. A few women have told me they want a man who'll love them more than his car. Your fiancée will need a lot of attention as she comes into a new culture and will depend on you. Spending 4 hrs a day under a hood is not a good thing. Get rid of all time consuming projects.

I have a day scheduled for cleaning before she arrives.
 

I spent more that a day cleaning my place before my wife arrived and I still failed to get it clean. My wife easily showed me where I missed spots. She could tell I wasn't a pro at cleaning.

I made a special place in the house for her cat to voluntarily have some privacy, in case the cat doesn't take to the dogs right away. 

Does her cat and your dogs get to eat meat? I remember you saying there's not meat in the house earlier.

Cats must eat meat or they die.

True, but guess what the latest idea is by liberals? Vegetarian cat and dog food.  :sick0012:

In regards to JAD maybe he feeds the animals outside on the porch or something.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on November 25, 2018, 02:00:27 PM
BTW, I sold the extra tractor and a bunch of other extra stuff left over from my RV project. I have one extra truck right now that I need to sell. A part is coming for it in a couple days then I'll put it up for sale.


Selling your toys is a big move you're making. A few women have told me they want a man who'll love them more than his car. Your fiancée will need a lot of attention as she comes into a new culture and will depend on you. Spending 4 hrs a day under a hood is not a good thing. Get rid of all time consuming projects.

I have a day scheduled for cleaning before she arrives.
 

I spent more that a day cleaning my place before my wife arrived and I still failed to get it clean. My wife easily showed me where I missed spots. She could tell I wasn't a pro at cleaning.

I made a special place in the house for her cat to voluntarily have some privacy, in case the cat doesn't take to the dogs right away. 

Does her cat and your dogs get to eat meat? I remember you saying there's not meat in the house earlier.

Cats must eat meat or they die.

True, but guess what the latest idea is by liberals? Vegetarian cat and dog food.  :sick0012:

In regards to JAD maybe he feeds the animals outside on the porch or something.

A liberal cat..

(https://scontent.fhel3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46524011_1844988508933378_7991764704160645120_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel3-1.fna&oh=337f7279a496a82f57ad5990e2ddaceb&oe=5C718733)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 25, 2018, 02:42:10 PM
yeah better not give that cat a veggie diet, it is criminal and cats are carnivores.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on November 26, 2018, 10:52:11 AM
I don't have much of a factual update. But I'll say I am pretty excited. Just a few days to go until she gets here. Communication has been pleasant and anticipatory. I tried to give her all of the information with which to make her decision to come or not, including some important things I haven't shared with anyone (not RUA either) other than her and close friends.

We have both made our decision so at this point I think there is little to be gained by anything other than making her arrival as fun for her and me as possible. I worked on the house a little today, fixing a couple things I think she'll appreciate. I'm thinking about taking my dogs to a kennel for a couple days to give us some alone time. I have made final arrangements with her translator in NY and she has made email contact with her as well, opting not to make a phone call ahead of time, which I advised. She is making her final arrangements. I'd say wish me the best, but I'm not that delusional))

I'll meet her at the airport with roses. I wonder if I should go with the FSU odd number or go with the American dozen, since she will be receiving them on US soil.

This is the first time I've read this thread and you're starting to sound a bit more organised, pro active and thoughtful. Well done and more of the same!  tiphat
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on November 26, 2018, 12:24:32 PM
JustaDude,

Hope your fiancé has a safe flight with her feline companion.

Want to commend you for sticking with your thread or TR. RUA is littered with half written TR's where one never hears from the poster again. It would be great to update the happenings, funny, good and bad as they happen on the ground.

Av
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on November 29, 2018, 01:35:05 AM
So did she arrive in 1 piece Jdude?!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on December 07, 2018, 05:36:57 AM
No news is good news so the saying goes...hope all is well.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on December 08, 2018, 04:48:41 PM
She's been here for almost 2 weeks. Things almost disintegrated on day 2, proving once again that I'm an ass. Predictably, meat was involved in the disagreement. The cat is the only one who eats meat in the house. I have generally believed that cats are carnivores and vicious killers, but Steve's post is inspirational. My dogs have eaten vegetarian dog food for 20+ years. One lived to 14 on that food. I'm sure they resent me for it. 

She connected with some local Russian speaking friends via a FB group. She was even offered a job right away. All positive from my perspective.

Living in a dacha hasn't been too bad so far. She realizes the beauty of this area and why I like it enough to shun civilization.  I wouldn't say this to her, but the Sierras, which reach as high as 14000 feet, have some much prettier areas than the Carpathians. Then again, I've barely visited the Carps, so what do I know? She is quite happy with the walking distance shops and cafes, which in some cases are a step up from the shops near her place in U.

We are planning to go to an empty parking lot in a few minutes to let her drive the truck (it's the one in the fleet with an automatic).

I don't want to share many other details right now, but I'll say things are a bit tenuous.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on December 08, 2018, 05:17:32 PM
She's been here for almost 2 weeks. Things almost disintegrated on day 2, proving once again that I'm an ass. Predictably, meat was involved in the disagreement. The cat is the only one who eats meat in the house. I have generally believed that cats are carnivores and vicious killers, but Steve's post is inspirational. My dogs have eaten vegetarian dog food for 20+ years. One lived to 14 on that food. I'm sure they resent me for it. 

She connected with some local Russian speaking friends via a FB group. She was even offered a job right away. All positive from my perspective.

Living in a dacha hasn't been too bad so far. She realizes the beauty of this area and why I like it enough to shun civilization.  I wouldn't say this to her, but the Sierras, which reach as high as 14000 feet, have some much prettier areas than the Carpathians. Then again, I've barely visited the Carps, so what do I know? She is quite happy with the walking distance shops and cafes, which in some cases are a step up from the shops near her place in U.

We are planning to go to an empty parking lot in a few minutes to let her drive the truck (it's the one in the fleet with an automatic).

I don't want to share many other details right now, but I'll say things are a bit tenuous.

Stop behaving like a fanatic and let the poor lady eat meat.

You didn’t feed your dogs any meat? You’re damn right they resent you.

Your Karma is that in your next life you’ll be a hungry dog stuck with some veggie lunatic.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on December 08, 2018, 06:21:56 PM
Humans get to choose what we eat. The animals that we take care of do not have that luxury. Seems cruel to me to deny animals the foods they need in order to satisfy our own ideas.

Judge a man by the way he treats his horse and his servants.

I hope that things between you and your new companion work out for the best.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on December 09, 2018, 01:51:40 AM
justdude why the hell are you so adamant about the meat thing. Most people aren't vegetarians and want meat.  Understand that most people NEED animal protein.  If you want tofu and soy go ahead but don't impose it on her.

You know you are stubborn. it's your girl so choose between her and having meat in the house.

Another thing, your cat WILL die if you don't feed it meat.
https://www.whyanimalsdothething.com/why-a-vegan-diet-will-kill-your-cat-and-sicken-your-dog/
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on December 09, 2018, 01:56:49 AM
If things are tenuous is that your fault or hers?  Lighten up and let her choose what she wants.  Then later figure out what is important to compromise on and what isn't.

I mean if it took all of 2 days to have conflict it's not a good sign.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on December 09, 2018, 02:21:36 AM
She connected with some local Russian speaking friends via a FB group. She was even offered a job right away. All positive from my perspective.

I'm not sure that bit would fill me with glee.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on December 09, 2018, 02:37:18 AM
If a girlfriend of mine enforced a no-meat regime on me then I know that I would be bad tempered. I'd also be looking for a new girlfriend.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on December 09, 2018, 06:06:30 AM
If a girlfriend of mine enforced a no-meat regime on me then I know that I would be bad tempered. I'd also be looking for a new girlfriend.

Yep.   :thumbsup:

BTW eating too much tofu causes low testosterone, JAD.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on December 09, 2018, 06:08:05 AM
She connected with some local Russian speaking friends via a FB group. She was even offered a job right away. All positive from my perspective.

I'm not sure that bit would fill me with glee.

 :-X  :laugh:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on December 09, 2018, 06:38:15 AM
She connected with some local Russian speaking friends via a FB group. She was even offered a job right away. All positive from my perspective.

I'm not sure that bit would fill me with glee.

As Manny indicates, this could be a future problem. I have met enough Russian/Ukraine females in America, divorced or single looking to hook new meat. They are gossipy and mostly very entitled.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Dogsoldier on December 09, 2018, 07:22:32 AM
She connected with some local Russian speaking friends via a FB group. She was even offered a job right away. All positive from my perspective.

I'm not sure that bit would fill me with glee.
Yeah, sounds as if she’s setting up her options and they won’t include JAD.
Seriously, Dude, you need to choose your battles. Is meat eating or not such a big deal worth ending your relationship over? Let it go, you have to compromise on lots of issues. Better they are fairly inconsequential ones now so you can stand your ground on the biggies later of which there will be a few, without doubt.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on December 09, 2018, 08:56:37 AM
She connected with some local Russian speaking friends via a FB group. She was even offered a job right away. All positive from my perspective.

I'm not sure that bit would fill me with glee.
Yeah, sounds as if she’s setting up her options and they won’t include JAD.
Seriously, Dude, you need to choose your battles. Is meat eating or not such a big deal worth ending your relationship over? Let it go, you have to compromise on lots of issues. Better they are fairly inconsequential ones now so you can stand your ground on the biggies later of which there will be a few, without doubt.

Very well said Dogsoldier, you should post more often!   tiphat
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on December 09, 2018, 03:41:23 PM
Maybe it is different for blokes who are married, but I doubt it, but it has always seemed to me that, on the whole, it is better to give other people what they want when doing so costs me nothing.

Yes, that's about picking your battles, but I think that it works because by fighting for the things that are important and letting the unimportant stuff go, we can be seen as having integrity and strength. One can be seen as supportive, helpful, and even generous. One also finds that one's interlocutors tend to treat one in the same way.

Or one can fight over everything and just be thought of as a c**t.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on December 10, 2018, 01:46:17 AM
sometimes people need to learn their lesson the hard way. if this girl can't tolerate it any more she'll leave and try to milk him for everything.

why do you think he's so worried he'll be taken to the cleaners again. for a guy who lost half he sure doesn't seem to be interested in making sure it doesn't happen again.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Halo on December 10, 2018, 02:02:00 PM
She's been here for almost 2 weeks. Things almost disintegrated on day 2, proving once again that I'm an ass. Predictably, meat was involved in the disagreement. The cat is the only one who eats meat in the house.

So she wants you to eat meat, or you are forcing her to adopt your lifestyle?

My better half is a vegetarian, he eats no animal products other than milk/cheese, and has been vegetarian for 35 years.  He would never impose that on me, nor on our children.  He cooked meat for them, and if I ask him to barbecue bacon (no bacon smell permeating the house), he has no issue doing so.  He prepares great salmon, also barbecued.

My husband ran into an old work colleague this year in Kiev.  The colleague was furious, because his daughter had become a vegetarian.  He said "I'd be happier if she were a prostitute." That is the common attitude toward vegetarians in Ukraine. 

If you are this controlling, your marriage will fail.  So either change yourself or remain single.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on December 10, 2018, 03:33:33 PM
People do not change. By the time we are adults, we have formed our personality.
Justadude cannot change who he is. All he can do is learn to change how he behaves. At this point, it is clear that he does not want to change how he behaves, not once in this entire tale has he done anything because the woman who has agreed to marry him has asked him.

Worse yet, he thinks that he has been generous because he has done lots of things for her, all things that he did becasue he wanted to, not because she wanted them. Remember how, waaaaay up thread, I talked about how he was making a pretty prison for her? Well, that's how this is playing out.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on December 10, 2018, 04:13:03 PM
Humans get to choose what we eat. The animals that we take care of do not have that luxury. Seems cruel to me to deny animals the foods they need in order to satisfy our own ideas.

Judge a man by the way he treats his horse and his servants.

I hope that things between you and your new companion work out for the best.

I agree with this. I suppose in a way she's slightly above a servant for JAD.

The dogs cannot leave. Not giving a dog meat, is a form of neglect or even abuse. It's cruel.

The dogs cannot leave, but if JAD isn't willing to be respectful to the young lady and compromise, she will likely be leaving.

Sad that after all this time and effort one of the parties is not willing to be respectful of the other.


http://thewholedog.org/artcarnivores.html

"Dogs have the internal anatomy and physiology of a carnivore"
(Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 260.).
They have a highly elastic stomach designed to hold large quantities of meat, bone, organs, and hide. Their stomachs are simple, with an undeveloped caecum
(Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 260.)."



TBH I'm entirely speechless that I would encounter a human being who doesn't understand or care that a dog is a dog, which specifically means that someone who loves and cares for their pets would respect the physiology of a dog being so close to a wolf. It seems this is a rather strange case of a human imposing fanatical beliefs on both dogs and other humans.  :'(


Our dogs do not have the kinds of friendly bacteria that break down cellulose and starch for them. As a result, most of the nutrients contained in plant matter?even pre-processed plant matter are unavailable to dogs. This is why dog food manufacturers have to add such high amounts of synthetic vitamins and minerals (the fact that cooking destroys all the vitamins and minerals and thus creates the need for supplementation aside) to their dog foods. o compensate for this, the manufacturer must add a higher concentration of vitamins and minerals than the dog actually needs. The result of feeding dogs a highly processed, grain-based food is a suppressed immune system and the under-production of the enzymes necessary to thoroughly digest raw meaty bones
(Lonsdale, T. 2001. Raw Meaty Bones).

Dogs are so much like wolves physiologically that they are frequently used in wolf studies as a physiological model for wolf body processes
(Mech, L.D. 2003. Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation).
Additionally, dogs and wolves share 99.8% of their mitochondrial DNA (
Wayne, R.K. Molecular Evolution of the Dog Family). br>This next quote is from Robert K. Wayne, Ph.D., and his discussion on canine genetics (taken from www.fiu.edu/~milesk/Genetics.html). "The domestic dog is an extremely close relative of the gray wolf, differing from it by at most 0.2% of mDNA sequence..."



BTW dry kibble doesn't have the smell of wet meat, so what is the problem?

This is one of my dogs favorite foods. Fromm is a gourmet small-batch manufacturer out of Wisconsin and they are the inventor of the dry kibble. Notice that the protein content is 30%.

https://www.frommfamily.com/products/dog/four-star/dry/
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Halo on December 10, 2018, 07:04:31 PM
People can change, if they want to. 

My grandparents had a dog on the farm who lived to about 23. He lived outside and ate meat, milk, and scraps of buttered bread.  He also caught birds and mice on his own, which I assume supplemented his diet. Or, perhaps he just killed them for fun.  When the dog got old (about 15), in winter he'd come into the house at night, but always preferred being outdoors. 

The dog often walked in the woods with my father.  On one such occasion, the dog ran off.  My father called him, given the dog's advanced age, and looked for him for about an hour, but couldn't find him.  We knew then that he'd gone off to die in peace.  By that time, my grandfather had passed, and my grandmother died soon thereafter.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on December 10, 2018, 07:15:02 PM
Nope, they don't. To repeat, people can learn to change behavior but the personality does not change - at least not in a significant way. There may be short term changes, for example during military service or after a bereavement, but those are short term. As we get older we might get more self confident, or more conscientious, but a person who lacks self confidence will not become a visibly self confident person, the careless person will not become highly conscientious.

However, in the case under discussion, the guy is not even changing the way he behaves.

Problem is that masking, the simulation of a different personality that is reflected in changes in behaviour, is stressful. The bigger the required change the greater the stress. Most people are unable to maintain a significant degree of masking for that reason. Our hero may well be making a choice that is, for him, optimal. By not changing anything he keeps his stress levels low and, of course, the person who might need him to change his behaviour will either put up with it or leave.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Wiz on December 12, 2018, 06:11:48 AM
Nope, they don't. To repeat, people can learn to change behavior but the personality does not change - at least not in a significant way. There may be short term changes, for example during military service or after a bereavement, but those are short term. As we get older we might get more self confident, or more conscientious, but a person who lacks self confidence will not become a visibly self confident person, the careless person will not become highly conscientious.

However, in the case under discussion, the guy is not even changing the way he behaves.

Problem is that masking, the simulation of a different personality that is reflected in changes in behaviour, is stressful. The bigger the required change the greater the stress. Most people are unable to maintain a significant degree of masking for that reason. Our hero may well be making a choice that is, for him, optimal. By not changing anything he keeps his stress levels low and, of course, the person who might need him to change his behaviour will either put up with it or leave.

By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
- Socrates

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on December 15, 2018, 10:59:10 PM
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/f472cf23a3034adbd95860531f91066d/tumblr_oqdky0isxM1s8zgwvo1_500.png)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on December 16, 2018, 10:25:34 AM
(https://img.memecdn.com/vegan-life_o_5228521.webp)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on December 16, 2018, 01:08:20 PM
Come on chap, give us the update.  :eeekk:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on December 16, 2018, 04:14:48 PM
vegans were always odd to me..who doesnt like a good BBQ!!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on December 18, 2018, 01:46:09 AM
vegans were always odd to me..who doesnt like a good BBQ!!

 :ROFL:

Used to agree ...now I live with one ..and occasionally she grabs the Shashlik out of my hand and devours it ....?

Now that IS odd ...
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on December 18, 2018, 01:43:43 PM
occasionally she grabs the Shashlik out of my hand and devours it ....?

Is Shashlik a euphemism here?  :chuckle:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on December 18, 2018, 01:50:30 PM
What isn't a vegan who eats meat?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Wiz on December 18, 2018, 10:01:48 PM
What isn't a vegan who eats meat?

A raw meat when it's hard and throbbing!  :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on December 18, 2018, 11:06:10 PM


Is Shashlik a euphemism here?  :chuckle:

Are you reading too many Wiz' posts ? ;)



Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on December 20, 2018, 07:41:42 AM
I forgot to ask Justadude..  ;D

Winter is on the way I would presume being a vegetarian you will not be wearing LEATHER boots this winter??  :laugh:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: yankee on December 20, 2018, 07:50:27 AM
I forgot to ask Justadude..  ;D

Winter is on the way I would presume being a vegetarian you will not be wearing LEATHER boots this winter??  :laugh:

So, every time your wife buys a fur coat you eat the animals that contributed to it?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on December 20, 2018, 07:56:26 AM
I forgot to ask Justadude..  ;D

Winter is on the way I would presume being a vegetarian you will not be wearing LEATHER boots this winter??  :laugh:

So, every time your wife buys a fur coat you eat the animals that contributed to it?

?? Im not sure what you mean? Im not a vegetarian and happy to eat meat.. and no problem skinning a few animals either to make a coat.. In fact I would probably have no problem eating humans if it came to it.. (Though I hope it would be some smelly slob)  :laugh:

I just wondered about the veggie thing as most veggies are FAKE veggies OR "veggies of convenience " Which are a lot worse than the real ones.. :laugh:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on December 20, 2018, 10:55:58 AM
What isn't a vegan who eats meat?

Good one! Bi~consumable or dual fuel?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on December 20, 2018, 12:08:34 PM
What isn't a vegan who eats meat?

Good one! Bi~consumable or dual fuel?


Whilst there's many things she could be, vegan isn't one of them. :)
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on December 21, 2018, 04:54:41 AM
Do you think she has tied Justadude to a tree and is force-feeding him shashlik?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Dogsoldier on December 21, 2018, 09:43:58 AM
Do you think she has tied Justadude to a tree and is force-feeding him shashlik?
Nothing like meat on the bone, I guess.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on December 21, 2018, 07:22:38 PM
No essential updates at this time.Things are relatively status quo as of now.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Halo on December 22, 2018, 12:22:09 PM
I forgot to ask Justadude..  ;D

Winter is on the way I would presume being a vegetarian you will not be wearing LEATHER boots this winter??  :laugh:

That would depend on why a person chose vegetarianism.  Some people do so for health reasons, especially after heart attacks. 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on December 25, 2018, 04:46:24 PM
Merry Christmas.

This update should give the haters (justifiably so) plenty of new ammo to describe how I'm lower than dirt.

Information I've never shared here is that I started seeing  a local girl in May. I met her in a coffee shop in the town where I lived before moving to the cabin. A cute, young, woman that is super fun. The relationship was on again, off again. She would break things off every 3-5 weeks. Then I'd go to her work or  send her a card and things would start up again. So I lived a double life for about 5 months. I told the FSU girl about this a month before we bought her ticket. She still wanted to come. The local relationship ended once again a month before arrival but then I've seen her a few times since. In fact, I'm meeting her for coffee right now.

I gave the FSU girl 4 solid red flags, anyone of which, I thought, would have been enough to end things, with the coup de gras being the other woman. But I didn't have the nads to end it myself and I let her come. Why did I do that? She wanted it so badly. I thought I'd give it/her a chance. It seems both impossible that it happened and also not surprising to me at all, given that I know myself like I do.

I believe I have what is called an "avoidant attachment style" and FSU girl has an anxious attachment style. I think these two styles tend to exacerbate each other, at least in our case.

This won't end well. To try to mitigate the damage, I will give her at least $5K. There have been two break ups and the amount went up substantially from one to the other. It will probably go up again the next time.

As I've pondered in the past, "what value does this information bring to anyone on RUA?". I must be getting something out of it, but I'm not sure what. I don't think anyone will make the same mistakes as me. I mean, who could possibly be so stupid? Therefore the story really has no value. I obviously don't listen or take advice well, so sharing all of this probably didn't benefit me either. Maybe I shouldn't update any more. If you don't hear from me again, assume it ended. It shouldn't take a very smart person to avoid my mistakes. You'd have to try really hard to make a series of choices that could lead to a train wreck of this size.

I was like a moth to a candle, except I brought a girl from half way around the world to get burned in the flame with me.


I may have irreparably damaged someone's life, the loss of her career job being the biggest tangible thing.

I'm a POS.

That's all for now.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: siberia on December 25, 2018, 05:38:25 PM
You are a true piece of shite.  Your ego has just destroyed someone's present life.  You have no idea how difficult it will be for this young woman to go back and try to reconstruct her life.  I hope no one here gives you any sort of absolution. You don't deserve it. 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Wiz on December 25, 2018, 10:17:52 PM
"10 days in Lvov with an angel"...

If this works out the title should be changed to "10 days in Lvov with a Saint - an awesome fantastic supercalifragilisticexpialidocious saint"

Angels, on the other hand, can be vengeful.

Not a bloody chance.......this is definitely a .. :trainwreck: and people should think better before encouraging him to destroy the life of this young woman. He already sent another woman in the Hospital because of his selfish and controlling behaviour and we only have to take his own words about himself! 

"My previous FSU fiance, as I have mentioned in the past, was institutionalized due to conditions induced (in my mind) by the stress of the situation. However, another common factor, me, cannot be overlooked as likely playing a role.

I'm just an ass. Maybe I'm unfit for a relationship and that's why I had to go half way around the world to find a girl."


The above words are not mine but his own.

Forgot sake grow up and tell the girl the truth and cancel her trip. You don't need to send a second woman in hospital ! 

Confed...

Be a good chap and stop trying to find excuses. The life of this new girl is at stake and a "mad professor" is going to destroy it, "because he is an Ass." (his words.)

:evilgrin0002:

Andrew:

Totally agree with your comments which you posted while I was typing mine.   :thumbsup:

I made this post back in october and by then, having read all your posts it became clear to me that your adventure in Lvov it was a :trainwreck: waiting to happen and I told you. I also made a couple more posts........on the same line.... but you went ahead.

All I have to say is; I hope this woman, is clever enough to find a solicitor and take you to the cleaners............

You are just a sick personality.......and nothing more than a veg.........too many people here wasted their time to give you good advice but you ignored all of them.

You deserve what ever happens to you!  :sick0012:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Halo on December 26, 2018, 01:28:31 AM
You are a true piece of shite.  Your ego has just destroyed someone's present life.  You have no idea how difficult it will be for this young woman to go back and try to reconstruct her life.  I hope no one here gives you any sort of absolution. You don't deserve it.

I am going to disagree with you a bit.  She knew he was seeing someone else before she arrived.  Yet she still chose to come.  I get the sense it is not because she is head over heels in love with him, that she was so anxious to come to the US.

To OP, exactly how are you going to give her this money?  The best way would be to open a bank account in her name, rather than have her carry cash.  Or,  wire it into a Ukrainian bank account for, say, her mother.  In many places in Ukraine, with cash, she will be a target, even if she doesn't realize that. 

You definitely were wrong to go ahead with a K-1 visa when your were dating a woman locally.  It means you were never completely committed to this woman, and you played with the economic disparity, and, more importantly, her life and her hopes for a better life, for your own advantage.  You didn't think about her, only your own selfish desires.  That is wrong, but it's not an unusual story in this endeavour.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on December 26, 2018, 01:59:02 AM
What a turd. Manipulative, dishonest, abusive, turd.

And now he thinks that he can buy off this inconvenient woman with less than a month's wages.

If I were she, I would be rolling up to the nearest women's refuge with huge black eye and a story to tell.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on December 26, 2018, 03:09:08 AM

If I were she, I would be rolling up to the nearest women's refuge with huge black eye and a story to tell.

Not at manipulative / dishonest - 'smart move' ..





Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on December 26, 2018, 06:15:29 AM
You are a true piece of shite.  Your ego has just destroyed someone's present life.  You have no idea how difficult it will be for this young woman to go back and try to reconstruct her life.  I hope no one here gives you any sort of absolution. You don't deserve it.

Agreed.

He also abused the system that gives real couples the opportunity, to be together. It’s exactly this reason why the journey is so, stressful and expensive for the genuine ones.

The guy lives a shambolic life and to this day, I don’t think he really takes full responsibility. Halo talks about the girl knowing about his cheating a month in advance, and suggests she’s partly responsible.

For all we know, her life at home was tied up and perhaps she made the journey through embarrassment, hope or nesessity? Whatever it was she has still been shafted by a bollockless waste of skin.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on December 26, 2018, 06:48:37 AM
You are a true piece of shite.  Your ego has just destroyed someone's present life.  You have no idea how difficult it will be for this young woman to go back and try to reconstruct her life.  I hope no one here gives you any sort of absolution. You don't deserve it.

I am going to disagree with you a bit.  She knew he was seeing someone else before she arrived.  Yet she still chose to come.  I get the sense it is not because she is head over heels in love with him, that she was so anxious to come to the US.

I agree with this. She had enough red flags and still chose to come. She is either dumb as a post or quite calculating and pragmatic. I'd suggest the latter.

To try to mitigate the damage, I will give her at least $5K.

If you have it about you, I'd suggest a bit more. Making a new life on $5k in either Ukraine or the US (and I suspect it'll be the US) won't be that easy.

As I've pondered in the past, "what value does this information bring to anyone on RUA?". I must be getting something out of it, but I'm not sure what. I don't think anyone will make the same mistakes as me. I mean, who could possibly be so stupid? Therefore the story really has no value.

I think it has great value actually. Certainly such tales help guys who may identify with some of what has happened. If it goes tits up as you predict, there is much the neophyte can learn from your tale.

Maybe I shouldn't update any more. If you don't hear from me again, assume it ended.

I hate cliffhangers. Stick around man, we want to know how this pans out.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on December 26, 2018, 06:56:24 AM
You have no idea how difficult it will be for this young woman to go back and try to reconstruct her life.

You think she'll go back? I don't.

If I understand correctly, the US is an oddity in the way that if you get in there by whatever means, it's quite easy to function while being under the radar (getting a driving licence or a job, etc). And not terribly hard to legalise yourself (by marrying someone else, dropping a kid and applying to stay for example). The hard bit is getting in in the first place.

She started building her Russian speaking network in advance IIRC. If she looks OK (and we'll assume she does), is quite bright (and we'll assume she is), it won't take her long to have some kind of job and a place to stay, and then meet a bloke. From there the only way is up. I can't see her going back to Mud City.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: yankee on December 26, 2018, 07:06:45 AM
You have no idea how difficult it will be for this young woman to go back and try to reconstruct her life.

You think she'll go back? I don't.

If I understand correctly, the US is an oddity in the way that if you get in there by whatever means, it's quite easy to function while being under the radar (getting a driving licence or a job, etc). And not terribly hard to legalise yourself (by marrying someone else, dropping a kid and applying to stay for example). The hard bit is getting in in the first place.

She started building her Russian speaking network in advance IIRC. If she looks OK (and we'll assume she does), is quite bright (and we'll assume she is), it won't take her long to have some kind of job and a place to stay, and then meet a bloke. From there the only way is up. I can't see her going back to Mud City.

I have seen several cases where this is true.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: d672 on December 26, 2018, 12:24:08 PM
Doesn't she have to go back? She's still working on those 90 days you need with the K1, and they aren't married. Or am I missing something?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on December 26, 2018, 12:48:09 PM
Most women in this situation if she is in the US will return.. If she had a reasonable job and is educated she would have no reason to stay..

It takes a lot for any women from any country to leave her home country , family, job and friends to live with a near total stranger she knows nothing about! For a women in her situation (If she is in the US) to stay on with little money and no friends , she would need to be extremely desperate to get to the US and probably would have to be some dumb ass from the village who knows nothing better.. Life in the US is not so bright on a small salary , but when your on no salary or working illegally under the radar life really is shit! Not the sort of thing an older women is want to go through, working illegally just to stay in the US..

Usually its the sort of thing young women do early twenties and so on , who don't mind taking risks as it is a big risk! Or are two dumb to know better.. just like you may take drugs when your younger, life is about some risks and adventure, it is the same sort of thing. About 14 years ago I knew two girls who went to the US on a sort of summer exchange program, they decided to stay and break their visa , that meant working illegally in all sort of shit holes for nothing, promises of payment but nothing.. I landed up contacting the local sheriff for these two as they got in to a situation which wasn't nice .. they decided to to search for a guy to marry..but when you are not legal things are not so easy..

Has anyone here ever tried living in a country illegally ? try it..

Of course every women is different , but I think she will return to Ukraine.. that is if she is in the US..
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on December 26, 2018, 01:03:11 PM
Doesn't she have to go back? She's still working on those 90 days you need with the K1, and they aren't married. Or am I missing something?

Hence the women's shelter and black eye point I made up thread. If she has been building a network of contacts then I'd be surprised if she did not already have the information she needs.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on December 26, 2018, 01:09:15 PM
Of course, all we know is what Justaturd has told us. For example, he told us that he had told this woman that he was in a relationship with another woman before her arrival in the USA. Is that true? Imagine the situation if he lied to us about this in order to, in his mind, lessen the evil of his actions.

We know that the guy is a dishonest, abusive and manipulative, man. Why choose to believe a thing that makes him seem slightly less bad. I don't believe him in this regard, it does not fit with other aspects of his narrative.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on December 26, 2018, 01:58:16 PM


Has anyone here ever tried living in a country illegally ? try it..

That old 'chestnut', again ... When I picked you up on this, before - you told us - you'd 'overstayed' due to a late flight  :chuckle:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: d672 on December 26, 2018, 02:05:15 PM
Doesn't she have to go back? She's still working on those 90 days you need with the K1, and they aren't married. Or am I missing something?

Hence the women's shelter and black eye point I made up thread. If she has been building a network of contacts then I'd be surprised if she did not already have the information she needs.

 I could be wrong, but from what I read she still wouldn't be able to stay after claiming spousal abuse during the 90 days... unless she did it illegally.

file:///C:/Users/hpuser/Downloads/Giving%20Battered%20Immigrant%20Fiancees%20a%20Way%20Out%20of%20Abusive%20Relations%20(2).pdf

VAWA’s self-petition provision does not permit abused women who travel to the United States on fiancée visas to file self-petitions unless they have married their intended spouses, since marriage is the basis for adjustment of status.12 Instead, their options are limited: (1) return to their home countries;13 (2) remain in the United States illegally; (3)proceed with the marriage to an abusive partner; or (4) seek some other less desirable and more arduous avenue to legal immigration status, such as a U Visa or T Visa.14 If the K Visa holder does not marry her abusive fiancé during the K Visa’s ninety-day window—and instead leaves him to escape the abuse—a devastating cascade of events will ensue: her visa will expire, she will no longer possess legal immigration status, and she will be precluded from self-petitioning under VAWA.15 Worst of all, she will be subject to removal from the United States
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on December 26, 2018, 05:17:46 PM
Quote
I may have irreparably damaged someone's life, the loss of her career job being the biggest tangible thing.

From past experiences, I can also say that things did not turn out well for myself and other family members.  But, unfortunately, there is not a time machine for you to redo past events.

K-1 Visa recipients are supposed to return back to their native country after 90 days and no marriage (subject to deportation).  If you did get married, then another petition is filed for the married spouse for permanent residency (and to get a SSN).  After five years of residing in the country (and still married), the immigrant spouse can apply for naturalization.  Note that denaturalization investigations are becoming more prevalent now due to fraudulent petitions.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: siberia on December 26, 2018, 06:28:20 PM
Quote
I am going to disagree with you a bit.  She knew he was seeing someone else before she arrived.  Yet she still chose to come.  I get the sense it is not because she is head over heels in love with him, that she was so anxious to come to the US.

Yes, I understand your point.  I spoke emotionally as soon as I read his post.  She is an adult, she heard what he was doing (IF we believe that he truly told her) and she still chose to come over.  No matter what, she is in for a very rough time soon.  I think it would be very difficult for her to stay in the USA, definitely not legally.  If she goes back home, she has to re-create her life which I know will be difficult.  I just feel very sorry for her.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on December 26, 2018, 08:16:56 PM
Quote
To OP, exactly how are you going to give her this money?  The best way would be to open a bank account in her name, rather than have her carry cash.  Or,  wire it into a Ukrainian bank account for, say, her mother.  In many places in Ukraine, with cash, she will be a target, even if she doesn't realize that. 

We began to look into those options a week ago. I wanted to open an American bank account for her, but then she wondered about her extracting all the money after she returns. I tried sending some money to her Ukrainian bank with a moneygram type transfer service, as a test, but it didn't go through. I think it can be accomplished with a direct wire transfer from my bank to her Ukrainian bank. I was thinking I'd give her $1000 in cash and the rest through a wire transfer. I want there to be a record of the transaction. Once again, I plan to give her the money and let her buy the plane ticket. I screwed it up once and I don't want the responsibility of that again.

Some good questions and speculation about why she went through with it have been kicked around. Although I am not well respected, my perspective does hold an advantage in that I am the closest person to this tale. I, of course, might be wrong, but I think I can honestly say that I hope she is taking me for some sort of a ride. I wish I were somehow being taken advantage of, but I don't think that's the case. The guilt I feel is pretty intense. Apparently her last relationship didn't go well and she wanted to try something different, i.e, a Westerner. Also, I think I can assert that she was at least partly motivate by a change of jobs/careers, so maybe that is some evidence that I'm at least 10% stooge. I wish I was all stooge.

She has never yelled at me, in all of this mess, nor am I the type to raise my voice. She has cried a lot. I think she really is a sweet girl. However, I must admit, that she is very broken down by the circumstances and has lost most of her agency, the ability to stand up for herself. I appear to hold all the cards, every last one, and I hate this feeling. That is one reason why I think I need to move toward resolution. 

We are playing house now, but there is constant tension.  This isn't fair to her. The first two times we discussed her going home I walked it back within 36 hours. I felt so terrible. Seeing her when I came home and trying to have some semblance of normalcy was excruciating. She wanted me to hug her all the time, which I did, and this led to intimacy that wasn't helpful.

So, in another DB move, my latest plan is to leave her a note and a pile of cash/wire transfer and go stay in my RV for a week or so with the dogs. Let her have the house to herself and take a taxi to the airport when she's ready. She knows where the shops are and can do just fine until she needs to leave. She has successfully ridden the bus already as well.

I fear that if/when I tell her again that I want to end it, if I have to live with her in the wake of that, that I'll give in again.

It is quite possible that I don't have a chance with the other girl once this is over. But I don't deserve anything in all of this, so I suppose that's ok. I'm trying not to let the status/prospects with the other girl influence my decision making.

Of this I am still convinced. The cold, calculated, green card seeking foreign bride, is a statistical anomaly. Leaving your entire life to move to another country and take advantage of some idiot is really putting all your chips on black 13. After you arrive you have to convince the guy to marry you and commit to lifetime support before your status can be adjusted. And there are still plenty of wild cards after that. Does it happen, yes I'm sure it does. But I think the vast majority of women engaged in this sort of thing have good intentions. Obviously I did not.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on December 26, 2018, 10:22:22 PM
JD,

try using paysend.com - if the lass has a Ukraine based Visa card - the money will be there in seconds

FAR better than WU / MG



Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on December 27, 2018, 11:49:26 AM
well this ended up quite predictably...did you even love this girl? my hunch from way back was no, as you wouldnt even meet her in NY. for someone who was gonna be your wife.

the other sign was you never expresed love like a normal guy would, gushing about her when she came to USA.   well the meat issue wont be one after she is gone.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: SL0413 on December 27, 2018, 02:26:19 PM
So,

You have an on-again/off-again thing with a local gal, a type of western relationship I assume you didn't want because you wanted a sincere, loving, traditional relationship with a good woman.

You spent over a year searching for a partner in the FSU, someone who is sincere, family oriented and would be a good wife.  You found her - your Angel from Lvov.  And you wrecked it. 

It seems to me you are the stereotypical WW - flaky, unreliable, unsure, self absorbed, and consumed with thoughts of how bad thing might get.

I do fault her a bit for not spotting the wet noodle.  Maybe you hide it well in person.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on December 27, 2018, 02:53:40 PM
what i dont get is justdude spent all this time and money in the ukraine just to hook up with a local woman! now he wants to pay off the ukraine girl to get rid if her..geez
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on December 27, 2018, 02:59:57 PM
i gotta say this is one of the oddest stories i have read on the forums, and how it played out. was this girl so naive and Justdude lacking any sort of backbone to end it way earlier. when you had the feeling that it wouldnt work out.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Markje on December 27, 2018, 04:37:03 PM
Ok. I dont think this is real anymore. I will de-follow this thread
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on December 27, 2018, 05:12:21 PM
Quote
After you arrive you have to convince the guy to marry you and commit to lifetime support before your status can be adjusted.

The K-1 visa petition assumes that both parties have become engaged to each other (already have intentions to marry beforehand).  It is NOT to be used as a "dating" or "getting to know the other person better" type of visa petition.  If you just THINK you need more time to think things over before you ask for the other person to marry you, you should not have filed the petition in the first place.  Going on multiple dates with the other party does not qualify you to file the petition.  And neither does having coitus with the other party.  The 90 day period gives you some slack time to call off the engagement, but if you were not close to 100% sure about the marriage when you filed the petition, you are wasting both parties time and money, but the USCIS thanks you for ponying up the processing fees.

Just as a side note that does not have any similarities to your situation, a few years ago, a local guy was recruiting local men to go overseas to become engaged to foreign women and to visit them and then file the K-1 visa to allow them to enter this country.  When they came here, they went on their own way and did not marry the sponsor.  The intention to marry was fake from the beginning.  It was used as a way to get into the country.  The sponsors got paid for doing the fake marriage scenario.  The guy who ran the whole plan got caught because he got stopped for some violation and the police noticed all of fake visa documents and passports inside his car.  Of course, during his hearing, he pleaded that all was legit and that the plans to marry just fell apart after the ladies came into the country.   (:)


This is a quote from the first post.

Quote
I brought a 0.6 carat solitaire engagement ring with me

This is the biggest issue with long distance dating.  You have limited time and finances to get to know the other person really well, so you have to make "rash judgments" based on the limited time that you spend with the other person.  I don't include letters or phone calls/video chat because you can spend decades doing that and end up nowhere.  If you dated someone local, you would not be carrying a ring after a few dates.  Some people date local people for years and are still at square one.  So with international dating, there is this implied urgency factor involved which sometimes makes things progress too fast.   :duh:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on December 28, 2018, 07:54:16 PM
Good points DCguy.

We broke up yesterday and even transacted the funds. But then today I had a change of heart again, thinking about all the good she brings to my life(and the sad stories about things from her past).

I told her I'd like to try again, but at the same time warned her that another breakup (which would be the 4th one) might happen. I also told her that isn't my intention but that there is compelling statistical evidence to make such a case. She said that she knows the risks but still wants to try. So we had a great day today.

She's going to hang out with a Russian speaking friend in a couple of days. Is Sasha a female name or male name? Kidding (I'm sure an RUA'r will run with that!).

We made plans to go out of town for a couple days soon.

I'm sure you can think of multiple ways she might scam me. Go ahead, think and post away. It's not part of my reality, but I know it's a topic of interest on RUA. Then again, Sasquatch is not part of my reality either, and I'll admit I think there's a 5% chance such a creature exists.

Once again, I'm not trying to justify my actions, nor trying to prove I'm smarter than anyone else. I'm just relaying what's going on.

So there's the latest.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on December 28, 2018, 11:48:11 PM

She's going to hang out with a Russian speaking friend in a couple of days. Is Sasha a female name or male name? Kidding (I'm sure an RUA'r will run with that!).

Just in case someone doesn't 'get' it ... It could be either

Such terms of endearment come from knowing  that person ....as a rule
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on December 29, 2018, 04:18:20 AM
3 breakups in the month or so she's been here? geez..like high school kids who cant decide. not your so called fiancee who came halfway around the world.

so i take it the local fling is out or are you keeping her on the backburner if this flames out again..pun intended
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on December 29, 2018, 05:06:53 AM

She's going to hang out with a Russian speaking friend in a couple of days. Is Sasha a female name or male name? Kidding (I'm sure an RUA'r will run with that!).

Just in case someone doesn't 'get' it ... It could be either

Such terms of endearment come from knowing  that person ....as a rule

That’s true but for what it’s worth, I’ve met more male Sasha’s than female.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on December 29, 2018, 06:53:01 AM
Hi,

Reluctant to reply for personal reasons. Sascha translates to Alexandra (female) or Alexander (male) in Slavic. You need to know the spelling of the last name.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Halo on December 29, 2018, 12:23:51 PM
We broke up yesterday and even transacted the funds. But then today I had a change of heart again, thinking about all the good she brings to my life(and the sad stories about things from her past).

Don't make a decision based on her tragic past experiences.  Unless the past is one of sexual abuse, 90% of Ukrainians probably have as tragic a past.  "White knight" marriages rarely last.

Quote
I'm sure you can think of multiple ways she might scam me. Go ahead, think and post away. It's not part of my reality, but I know it's a topic of interest on RUA. Then again, Sasquatch is not part of my reality either, and I'll admit I think there's a 5% chance such a creature exists.

No one is suggesting she is scamming you.  Suggesting her motives are not solely to be with her "one true great love", which obviously is not the case if your posts are true, is not a default suggesting scamming.  Think about it logically.  With all the red flags you presented, including you were seeing another woman not only at the same time you were preparing a K-1 visa for her, but also while she is with you, suggests something else is also motivating her.  No normal woman would put up with the crap you've put her through.  Having posted this, none of it means she won't be a good wife.  But, IMHO, it does mean unless she learns to love you deeply, she won't put up with your bad behaviour indefinitely.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on December 29, 2018, 03:21:28 PM
justdude, if this girl is even half pretty set her up with one of your buddies. if you are gonna break it off anyways give her a chance to stay in the states.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on December 29, 2018, 07:53:25 PM
JAD if you were a true Gentleman you would have done a firm breakup long ago.

You’re just using this young woman for your ego. You’re a player and you’ll keep having affairs on the side.

Sooner or later she’s gonna wise up, hopefully you’re already fixed.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on December 30, 2018, 04:27:41 PM
i didnt know high school teachers in plaid shirts could be playas  :laugh:

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on December 30, 2018, 10:00:25 PM
We broke up yesterday and even transacted the funds. But then today I had a change of heart again, thinking about all the good she brings to my life(and the sad stories about things from her past).

I told her I'd like to try again, but at the same time warned her that another breakup (which would be the 4th one) might happen. I also told her that isn't my intention but that there is compelling statistical evidence to make such a case. She said that she knows the risks but still wants to try. So we had a great day today.


Be honest with yourself. You don't love her. You're not thrilled to be with her. You were even dating another woman looking for better options to marry while your fiancée's visa was getting processed. You were looking for better options because you knew she wasn't the right one for you.

Although your fiancée had signs from you that you're not 100% into her, she decided to believe in the fantasy that things will be alright....but you should've done the right thing and cancelled her visa before she came.

Will this end up in marriage? Will there be another breakup and she go home? Or will she engage the backup plan, stay with her friend in America and violate her visa?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on December 31, 2018, 06:29:03 AM
We broke up yesterday and even transacted the funds. But then today I had a change of heart again, thinking about all the good she brings to my life(and the sad stories about things from her past).

I told her I'd like to try again, but at the same time warned her that another breakup (which would be the 4th one) might happen. I also told her that isn't my intention but that there is compelling statistical evidence to make such a case. She said that she knows the risks but still wants to try. So we had a great day today.


Be honest with yourself. You don't love her. You're not thrilled to be with her. You were even dating another woman looking for better options to marry while your fiancée's visa was getting processed. You were looking for better options because you knew she wasn't the right one for you.

Although your fiancée had signs from you that you're not 100% into her, she decided to believe in the fantasy that things will be alright....but you should've done the right thing and cancelled her visa before she came.

Will this end up in marriage? Will there be another breakup and she go home? Or will she engage the backup plan, stay with her friend in America and violate her visa?

If it was me and I was the Ukrainian women who gave up her job and was told a pile of Bullshit and I had wasted my time flying to the US like a piece of shit I would of done this:

1. Found myself a few Ukrainian friends and explained the situation..

2. I would find a nice big Ukrainian man and hire him to give my fake husband to be, who wasted my time to give him a good slap..I would agree the time and place as I would know where he lived..

3. As soon as I was on the plane returning back to Ukraine my hit man would be free to visit my fake husband to be.. He would give him a very big slap! And hope that would be a lesson for him about messing with peoples lives..

4. I would report this man for rape as soon as I was back home to the police and make sure 100% he never ever sets foot in my country again..

5. His conscience money.. I wouldn't even of accepted it!







Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on December 31, 2018, 09:27:21 AM
Be honest with yourself. You don't love her. You're not thrilled to be with her. You were even dating another woman looking for better options to marry while your fiancée's visa was getting processed. You were looking for better options because you knew she wasn't the right one for you.

Although your fiancée had signs from you that you're not 100% into her, she decided to believe in the fantasy that things will be alright....but you should've done the right thing and cancelled her visa before she came.

Billy is very good at getting right to the heart of the matter.

We broke up yesterday and even transacted the funds. But then today I had a change of heart again, thinking about all the good she brings to my life

Tell me you didn't ask for a refund.  :'(

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on December 31, 2018, 05:38:23 PM
justdude, if this girl is even half pretty set her up with one of your buddies. if you are gonna break it off anyways give her a chance to stay in the states.

Well, I just received my FL-190 from the CA court, so I guess I am available now.   :chuckle:   :whist11:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on January 01, 2019, 05:01:22 AM
justdude so did you break up or not? maybe let another RUA member have a go with her!  billyb was right, you dont love this girl.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 05, 2019, 06:34:27 PM
We had dinner with a buddy of mine and his gf on January 1 and  took a little trip a couple days after that. Other than that, nothing drastically new to report.

JAD if you were a true Gentleman you would have done a firm breakup long ago.

True


You’re just using this young woman for your ego. You’re a player and you’ll keep having affairs on the side.

I don't see it that way, but maybe you're right. Maybe.


Sooner or later she’s gonna wise up, hopefully you’re already fixed.

You would think so!

Quote
i didn't know high school teachers in plaid shirts could be playas

Good rhetorical point!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on January 06, 2019, 11:15:58 AM
justdude at least you still got a sense of humor!

is her English improving btw or still language communication issues?

yeah what is puzzling is this girl is putting up with all of this. most woulda bailed. and if she is attractive she will have options. maybe you put a spell on her haha
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on January 07, 2019, 05:49:56 PM
Quote
yeah what is puzzling is this girl is putting up with all of this. most woulda bailed.

Being a newcomer into this country, I don't think most foreigners will "fly the coop" that quickly.  As long as you don't have to pay the vacation costs during your stay here, no need to return back just yet.  You can get better acclimated to the surroundings should you return back in the future.  Of course, if you had another local contact that you had intended to run away with when you got here, then that is another story.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on January 08, 2019, 01:52:13 AM
Yes, the winning strategy in this sad case is to not walk out. Stay until the 'right time' which, for whatever reason, provides the greatest benefit to the abusee.

That, of course, assumes that the victim has not been so demoralised that she is unable to fend for herself.

Given what Justadude has told us of his past, and his effect upon his victims, this latter case should not be discounted as a possibility.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 11, 2019, 10:14:18 PM
justdude at least you still got a sense of humor!

is her English improving btw or still language communication issues?


Thanks I guess!

I don't think it is improving that much, but maybe that's because I'm living with her and I can't see the change.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on January 11, 2019, 10:16:35 PM

That, of course, assumes that the victim has not been so demoralized that she is unable to fend for herself.


Although this is not something I would do intentionally, it is a concern of mine.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on January 12, 2019, 03:53:02 PM
so what's the situation with her now?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on January 13, 2019, 01:13:04 PM
How many hours a day does she sleep? How much weight has she lost?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on January 13, 2019, 01:58:34 PM
If the image in Dude's avatar is his interest from Ukraine, there is little to loose weight wise on her side. Further few of us can resolve relationships in hours. Some posters only post weekly or monthly updates, this is not a NFL championship game.

Curious Dude, you are a teacher, how do you relate to your students? And more important how do your students relate to you as a teacher and perhaps mentor?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on January 14, 2019, 07:18:13 AM
i dont think his profession as a teacher correlates to his relationship.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on January 26, 2019, 03:00:35 PM
i fear the worst. justdude give us an update please.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on February 02, 2019, 02:10:45 PM
I'm crying in the jacuzzi right now by myself. She is upstairs sleeping. She had a somewhat routine yet not insignificant sickness. We went to an urgent care doctor, had some tests and got a prescription. This obviously didn't help her overall, but I think she is on the mend now. I think she has lost about 5-10 pounds since she arrived. She is down to about 110lbs now at 5'7". She needs to gain some weight and her and I both work on that. An obvious idea might be to eat some meat, but I don't think she would at this point even if I strongly encouraged it.

A week ago we went to see a bilingual Russian speaking couple's therapist. Notwithstanding any direct benefit to our relationship, I wanted her to be fully heard in her own language, and for her to hear my story translated by a neutral party. The guy was fantastic. I don't think he could have done any better. We discussed my apparent inability to attach and how difficult this thing has been for her. I think she felt more validated than what I could provide with through the language barrier.

Meanwhile, last night we talked seriously again. The end of the visa is looming, we have less than 25 days to go. She raised the question of whether or not we will be getting married or if she should be shopping for her plane tickets. God, I feel so terrible. I knew this question was coming. I thought I would delay it as much as possible. Let her be in control of how long she stays.

Although I knew the answer would be no marriage, over the weeks I would capture glimmers of hope as I wrestled with my own demons regarding my avoidant attachment style. I would daily ask myself if I could go through with this. Just do it, JAD, commit to this. Make her happy and in so doing make yourself happy. But the ever present cloud hanging over these rays of light was the high likely-hood that I would try to find a way to get out later, after I'm married and have signed the affidavit of support.

So here I am unable to choose what is by many indications something good for me. I look at her or at her picture and think "I could have that (this relationship with this woman). It is right here for the taking. All I have to do is reach out and take it." But I can't. I won't let myself.

Yet another reason to despise myself is that I unintentionally took away almost all of her ability to negotiate. She had no leg to stand on, that she could use to put her foot down. Things were so lopsided in terms of how much I wanted it vs. her from the get go, that she didn't even get the chance to be the best partner could be:(   How can you be a good partner if you have little to no agency?

Nevertheless, we/she did do some things. Drives, an overnight trip, a wood project with which she helped, she cooked a lot and I loved every bit (almost), dinner with a couple of my friends, a couple of trips to the cinema, my daughter coming to visit, bicycle rides in this beautiful mountain area, she rearranged some things in the house,  which she really liked but didn't do as much as I had hoped. She even had the job of cleaning the rental unit in between guest stays for pay.

She made her own decisions. She came and went as she pleased, staying gone for 3 days at a time on c couple of occasions (which she later confirmed was because she needed to get away:(

When we would discuss ending the relationship she would say I don't like her and that I don't care for her. It's not true and last night maybe she started to believe it. I do care for her. I do like her. But as far as I can figure myself out, I just can't make this commitment. And, apparently, I cannot make a commitment like this to anyone, no matter who. I think my future likely involves a few relationships punctuating a lonely existence that ends with my death alone.

On a lighter note, the cat thing has gone well. The cat is very well behaved. I have made several accommodations for the koichka and believe that I have respected that part of her life. I think I have done some other things well also. But not enough to be significant in light of the hurt I've caused.   

 
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on February 02, 2019, 02:15:15 PM
Curious Dude, you are a teacher, how do you relate to your students? And more important how do your students relate to you as a teacher and perhaps mentor?[/font][/size]

Oddly, I am gregarious and well liked. I try to do a good job for the teenagers with whom I work. I have received several student driven awards for things like most inspirational teacher (And a random "Cheesiest Jokes"). I have seen many of my former students get into schools like MIT, CalTech, Berkeley and Stanford. Seven of my former math students have gone on to become high school math teachers themselves.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on February 02, 2019, 02:24:06 PM
Marriage is, in my opinion, something one does because one is sure that one wants to do it. Nervous jitters aside, if one is not certain then there should be no marriage. Having a relationship with another woman whilst engaging to marry another is a pretty sure sign that one is not ready for the commitment of marriage.

That goes for the both of you. That means the date of the ceremony is immaterial. In my opinion, again, if you can not say 'yes' in response to the question 'are you ready to marry this woman tomorrow?' then 25 days or 25 months is not the issue. Marriage is the issue or, more accurately, your readiness and ability to marry this woman for the right reasons.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Mr strange on February 02, 2019, 03:13:53 PM
Something is holding you back and that is your paradigm which keeps you from change and in check. That is most likely both of you.

The paradigm makes you come up with excuses why you can't do it as well.

You are both very scared and afraid to make the marriage happen. Fear is always false and you will have to cross through to the other side. Its a growth process.

The solution is to get very emotional into it and take it slowly until you overide the fear.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on February 02, 2019, 03:46:40 PM

Justadude, if you're crying now, you'll be crying a whole lot more when you do something you don't want such as marrying your fiancee. Cut her loose. Send her back home. If you have a change of heart, you could always try it again with her. You've dragged this on too long and it's bad for both of you. Plenty of women out there. Get yourself to a happy place.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on February 09, 2019, 12:27:29 PM
Something is holding you back and that is your paradigm which keeps you from change and in check. That is most likely both of you.

The paradigm makes you come up with excuses why you can't do it as well.

You are both very scared and afraid to make the marriage happen. Fear is always false and you will have to cross through to the other side. Its a growth process.

The solution is to get very emotional into it and take it slowly until you overide the fear.

I think this is so true. I think human attraction and love is much simpler than I make it.

I believe being with me has made her physically ill, as have become other women in the past. What do I do with that? I'm a horrible person.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on February 09, 2019, 12:39:39 PM

Justadude, if you're crying now, you'll be crying a whole lot more when you do something you don't want such as marrying your fiancee. Cut her loose. Send her back home. If you have a change of heart, you could always try it again with her. You've dragged this on too long and it's bad for both of you. Plenty of women out there. Get yourself to a happy place.

She's gone. Oh God, it hurts. The last couple of days were excruciating. We spent time together, we talked about things we should have talked about before.

The day of, I felt like I was taking my dog to the veterinarian to have it put to sleep. Why not give it one more day? One more week? Why does it have to be today? Why not tomorrow? Why not spend some more time together? Maybe we'll pull though? I don't want to diminish the importance of this. She is a human woman, not a dog. But going through that process with a dog in the past has been overwhelming. This feels similar.

We spent the morning together and went out on our last date, for pizza. Silently I counted the time between our first date in the summer of 2017 and the last date. I cried off and on. She cried too, but not as much. The actual goodbye, with the luggage and stuff, was predictably painful. How long can I make the final hug last? Is there to be a last kiss? (there was). Watching her walk away until she's out of sight...

Then getting in the car and waling tears of sorrow, guilt, regret and self loathing.

She's still in the country right now, waiting for her connection. I want so bad to call her and say, "Come back. Let's get married. I'll make you happy. I promise." If only I knew I would/could keep that promise.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on February 09, 2019, 01:57:21 PM

When you find a woman that's right for you and you right for her, you're going to forget about this episode in your life. Don't spend any more time and emotion on this episode.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on February 09, 2019, 02:14:13 PM
What kind of connection? Did you drop her off at the airport and watch her go through to airside?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Mr strange on February 11, 2019, 03:01:40 PM
Something is holding you back and that is your paradigm which keeps you from change and in check. That is most likely both of you.

The paradigm makes you come up with excuses why you can't do it as well.

You are both very scared and afraid to make the marriage happen. Fear is always false and you will have to cross through to the other side. Its a growth process.

The solution is to get very emotional into it and take it slowly until you overide the fear.

I think this is so true. I think human attraction and love is much simpler than I make it.

I believe being with me has made her physically ill, as have become other women in the past. What do I do with that? I'm a horrible person.

This is how to deal with it:

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on February 11, 2019, 04:54:09 PM
well a predictable ending...justdude needs to figure himself out before finding a Russian girl. if this were a local he'd just dump her or move on.

but he committed so much with the visa, flight etc. so he probably felt more pressure to try and make it work. good luck dude
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on February 11, 2019, 05:00:37 PM
Bob Proctor is an MLM scam like the Secret and Oprah...all new age quackers
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on February 12, 2019, 08:57:34 AM
Has this woman actually returned to Ukraine?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on February 12, 2019, 03:16:13 PM
It’s a sorry tale if ever I’ve read one. I do have a degree of sympathy for JAD with him seemingly coming to terms with what he’s done but at the end of the day, it was a fcuk up from the start but he carried on anyway!

You don’t mess with other people’s feelings and he’s learned the hard way.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Dogsoldier on February 13, 2019, 05:20:18 AM
It’s a sorry tale if ever I’ve read one. I do have a degree of sympathy for JAD with him seemingly coming to terms with what he’s done but at the end of the day, it was a fcuk up from the start but he carried on anyway!

You don’t mess with other people’s feelings and he’s learned the hard way.
I would say it’s more that the woman has learned the hard way. JAD has known for a very long time that he was ambivalent about his intention to have a future with her yet he still persisted in his attempt at exorcising his demons, all at her expense.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on February 13, 2019, 10:35:38 AM
...justdude needs to figure himself out before finding a Russian girl.

This is the reality. If JustaDude repeatedly rejects love than I would suggest some therapy and deep soul searching.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on February 13, 2019, 01:45:12 PM
i think he's just gotta start eating meat again and get his testo up!  grill up a nice steak.  he didn't even respect this girl enough to be committed. he was dating someone else on the side...put her through the ringer knowing he couldn't back it up.

saying that you want to "marry her" and change it around won't solve a damn thing.  she already knows how you act and are wishywashy.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: yankee on February 13, 2019, 05:20:07 PM
I actually think that he just trolled the bunch of you.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on February 13, 2019, 06:10:17 PM
I actually think that he just trolled the bunch of you.

If he did then the act of doing so diminished him and not I. I lost no humanity by posting as I did; he on the other hand did - whether he was trolling or not.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: yankee on February 13, 2019, 06:37:34 PM
I actually think that he just trolled the bunch of you.

If he did then the act of doing so diminished him and not I. I lost no humanity by posting as I did; he on the other hand did - whether he was trolling or not.

Don't get me wrong.  I agree with  you.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on February 13, 2019, 07:27:46 PM
I don't think Just Dude is a troll...just a lost soul figuring out love..
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on February 14, 2019, 12:05:59 PM

I'm sure people have come to forum and tell a story not true but it doesn't bother me. Usually people end up giving good advice to whatever story is written and somebody else can benefit from it if not the storyteller.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on February 14, 2019, 01:29:01 PM
I actually think that he just trolled the bunch of you.

Myself and other members have in fact met JAD in Kiev. He is indeed real.

The issues sadly never were obvious when we spoke.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on February 14, 2019, 05:01:10 PM
Quote
The issues sadly never were obvious when we spoke.

Most people do not confide in personal feelings with others, even close friends.  Also, with the 90 day visitation limit, personal issues and differences tend to force you to make hasty decisions.  When it becomes a "go or no go" decision and you are still undecided, you ultimately have to decide and not listen to other people's advice (like I did).   :( :duh:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on February 16, 2019, 02:30:16 PM
In the couple of days leading up to her departure she intentionally backed off on communication. She didn't see much point in dragging things out at that point. Foolishly I still thought I could somehow make it better by being nice. I hid a letter in her bag with a final apology and an attempt to describe what happened from my perspective. As of now I have not heard whether she read it. I think almost all women are wiser than me in relationships, and she was right that tapering down and cutting off communication was best.

She booked her own tickets. She took the bus several hours to a west coast airport in another city. Then she flew to Western Europe without the final leg of the journey home booked. Of course I wanted to take her to the bus station but she asked me instead to take her to a UA girlfriend she had made to spend her final hours in California.

Nevertheless I was still worried about her. I was able to get a few trip updates from her. Last I heard was a few days ago and she had indeed made it to Western Europe. I texted her 30 hours ago asking if she had made it to Ukraine. I have not heard a reply. Although I still worry, I think the odds are good that she made it home.

If anyone is interested in numbers, the whole disaster cost me around $11K, including our trip to Lvov in early 18, the trip here, the $5500 in guilt money, the stuff I bought her, the engagement ring, etc.

Mercifully, the weather where I live (4000' elevation near Tahoe) turned Revenant like. Over the last 2 weeks we have had over 4 feet of snow. A sizable tree fell on my vacation rental, a frozen/broken pipe, cutting down more trees, trying to get the 4WD tractor to be an effective snow removal tool (we generally have relatively warm, heavy and wet snow), lots of shoveling, dealing with tourist traffic through town, having the highway shut down and getting to work (I've missed 2 days from snow problems) have kept me pretty busy. I really am thankful for the distraction. Many of the residents have been in survival mode here. This looks like at least a 20 year winter so far.

Of course I've been lonely. I visited the ex GF at work a few days ago. We got together last night. She knows the whole story now. I don't deserve anyone right now, but it's nice to have someone to hang with. She's pretty cool and she's local.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on February 17, 2019, 12:24:10 AM

If anyone is interested in numbers, the whole disaster cost me around $11K, including our trip to Lvov in early 18, the trip here, the $5500 in guilt money, the stuff I bought her, the engagement ring, etc.


$5500 in guilt money? Is that the gift you gave her after the breakup so she can get her life back in order when she gets back to Ukraine?

There's a cost in dating and having relationships with women. Most of the time it doesn't end up in marriage. Cutting a woman loose earlier can save you money and allow you to move onto the next girl faster.

Over the last 2 weeks we have had over 4 feet of snow. A sizable tree fell on my vacation rental, a frozen/broken pipe, cutting down more trees, trying to get the 4WD tractor to be an effective snow removal tool (we generally have relatively warm, heavy and wet snow), lots of shoveling, dealing with tourist traffic through town, having the highway shut down and getting to work (I've missed 2 days from snow problems) have kept me pretty busy. I really am thankful for the distraction. Many of the residents have been in survival mode here. This looks like at least a 20 year winter so far.


Seattle had the most snow in February for the last 70 years and February is only half over. I rent my wheeled loader, backhoes, and skid steer loader for $150 an hour. Phones ringing off the hook to plow snow. Worked at schools, neighborhoods, hotels, car rental lots businesses. When you lose days at work due to snow, put your tractor with a blade or bucket to work. Work as many hours as you want. Get $2000 a day if you want.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: yankee on February 17, 2019, 06:49:45 AM
My grandchildren, in Lake Sammamish, tell me they have missed several days of school because of snow.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on February 17, 2019, 12:28:25 PM
My grandchildren, in Lake Sammamish, tell me they have missed several days of school because of snow.

I sent a crew Thursday and Friday to Sammamish to clear the parking lots and sidewalks of snow at Discovery elementary and Skyline High School. Also helped build the Sammamish Aquatic and community center a few years ago.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on February 17, 2019, 12:31:15 PM
I always get Snohomish and Sammamish mixed up lol...
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on February 17, 2019, 04:17:19 PM
Guilt money?
You dishonestly inveigled her into giving up her life to be with you and then when she was with you, you were shagging at least one other woman, you made it impossible for her to be with you and retain any shred of self-respect - the money that she left with is a bare minimum to enable her to restart her life back in Ukraine.

Call it compensation and consider yourself lucky to have gotten off so lightly.

Have you yet arranged your first therapy session?
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on February 18, 2019, 02:54:23 AM
Guilt money?
You dishonestly inveigled her into giving up her life to be with you and then when she was with you, you were shagging at least one other woman, you made it impossible for her to be with you and retain any shred of self-respect - the money that she left with is a bare minimum to enable her to restart her life back in Ukraine.

Call it compensation and consider yourself lucky to have gotten off so lightly.

Have you yet arranged your first therapy session?


Have you yet arranged your first therapy session?

Of course he needs therapy .. I cannot understand who would want to read or show any interest in such a ridicules story..

Probably had a spoilt childhood and it mixed him up mentally. How can it even possibly be a lesson to any others ??

Most people know what they are doing when they do something.. If you go to the shop and buy 3 kilos of bananas when you get home you will eat them yes? :laugh: 
When you go to a bar for a few pints your going to order a beer , right? When you go to a restaurant and order a rump steak , your going to eat it? Its not normal to order a steak take a few bits then say to the waiter with tears in your eyes "You know what I don't want it any more "  :laugh:

Who in their right mind plans to go to Ukraine spend time with a women, tell's the whole world about it , ask's her to marry him, ask's her back to the US on a fiancee visa then say "You know what I don't want to get married"

Only one type of person does this a complete nutter!!




Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on February 18, 2019, 03:35:40 AM
The outcome was, in the end, what some of us expected many weeks ago. The only way that she was going to stay was if he made her, literally, his prisoner - and I bet that very thought crossed his mind!

Yes, he needs therapy. I'd be surprised if the poor woman does not also need professional help after the time spent with this guy. Her self esteem will have taken a huge hit. Can you imagine doing as she did and then finding out that the man who had imported her to marry was fvcking some local tart? Imagine how trapped she must've felt at that point. Where to go, how to escape, could she change the guy - what to do?

Now, I believe his story about having driven a previous victim insane.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on February 18, 2019, 01:02:49 PM
Justdude never should have followed through with bringing that girl over.  He had so many hesitations and from his tone you could tell he didn't have strong feelings for her. it was supposed to be his wife, yet he wouldn't acquiesce and meet her in NY.

well, on to the next girl
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on February 25, 2019, 07:59:30 PM
I've been in therapy off and on for 20 years.

The $5500 was what I gave her to buy her ticket home and have enough to pay for a few month's wages while she finds a new job. I hope she finds a job better than the one she had.

I got reasonable confirmation that she made it home safely. We were never friends on FB, but I looked her up today. She changed her profile picture last week to a picture I took of her when we traveled together in California. Her mother "liked" the picture.

So I guess that's the end of it. She's home and hopefully she can pick up the pieces and start to rebuild.

I feel terrible and I miss her, but there is nothing I can do about it now.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on February 25, 2019, 08:29:04 PM
yeah Justdude you probably got your own issues to deal with and dragged these women into it. Get them resolved first, no use going back to Ukraine for a new girl. It'll be the same story again.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on February 25, 2019, 10:48:48 PM
The $5500 was what I gave her to buy her ticket home and have enough to pay for a few month's wages while she finds a new job. I hope she finds a job better than the one she had.


You deserve praise for doing that.

I've been in therapy off and on for 20 years.


I never felt a need to get help. If there is a problem, I fix it or get rid of the problem. You are in control of your own happiness. Don't expect anybody but yourself to get to a happy place.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on February 26, 2019, 04:02:32 PM
Quote
Don't expect anybody but yourself to get to a happy place.

From an overall standpoint, I agree with this statement.  However (there is always a but), your personal circumstances or environment may prevent you from being happy and satisfied.  No matter how hard you try, you can never "get out of your rut".  Some then look for an escape, sometimes taking desperate measures.   :snivel:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on February 26, 2019, 06:38:10 PM
I've been in therapy off and on for 20 years.

20 years?

To some degree I share BillyB's thinking. Like automotive mechanics you will find those who are very good and others with a degree who will not know how to screw in a spark plug.

I went for five years to one form of therapy or the other, yes I learned and am more careful not to continue prior patterns that can be unhealthy. But no one here is 'whole or 100% healthy'.

Let me make a suggestion skip the therapy and go back 25 years. Find a copy of 'The Road Less Travelled' by Peck. Read It! You can skip the Christian perspective chapters and study the motivation and fears of those who reject love, they are fairly universal.

You would have been a poster child in the book.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on February 26, 2019, 06:48:28 PM
I've been in therapy off and on for 20 years.



So you had no business going to a foreign country and playing games with a good woman.

Play your games at home with your hookup friend.

Usually when there’s a story like this being told it’s a western woman playing these games with a decent man.

Very disappointing to read of a man, who knows he’s got commitment “issues”, involving an FSU woman.

Stay home.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on February 27, 2019, 03:03:14 AM
I found therapy very helpful for me a while back. It informs a fair bit of my understanding of myself and some of what I write.

IMHO, if therapy didn't work then either one's attitude is wrong or the therapist is the wrong therapist. There's plenty of evidence that therapy, as a treatment for many personal issues, does work, is effective. 20 years suggests that there's a fair bit of one, or both of the foregoing happening, more likely the attitude thing otherwise it would not go on for so long.

But, yes, you are the person who controls your own happiness. That's not to say that one should expect to be happy all the time - that's insane (in more ways than one!). You can't expect another person to make you happy. Likewise, you can't make another person happy. However, that's not a get out for everyone to use to absolve themselves from bad or unhappy relationships! What we can, and should, do is to work on creating an environment in which our partners can find their own happiness and where we can find our own. And yes you can find your happiness through association with another person but that's not the same as them 'making you happy' - you still do it for yourself.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on February 27, 2019, 03:09:58 AM
I think if you just started eating meat again and let her eat meat all would be well...nuthin' a good steak can't cure!!

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Wiz on February 27, 2019, 05:43:21 AM
I've been in therapy off and on for 20 years.

I never felt a need to get help. If there is a problem, I fix it or get rid of the problem. You are in control of your own happiness. Don't expect anybody but yourself to get to a happy place.

You obviously mean any kind of the therapist, psychologist etc.

You and I, were born and grew up in very different environments and we had to grow up and learn how to survive under very difficult circumstances. Under these conditions you need to have a very strong character to survive and NOT to fall away by the side of the life road....... not an easy task.

Here my latest life trial.....

Last September, I managed to escape the knock on my door (he only knocks once!) by the “Grim Reaper” but I made a deal with him.

Having escape from his clutches, I promised never to smoke again and 7 months, I  think I have kept my deal and achieved that without any help from doctors or therapists or any patches. I simply stopped smoking, and use sugar free chewy gums and of course chamomile tea and only 1-2 coffees a day. BTW “Manny” all systems are back to normal now and I enjoy the sunshine… we have here. :party0011:

Of course I have gained a little bit of weight but following my Mediterranean diet, from my cookery book, I hope soon or later my weight it will start going back to normal.

My benefits are clear. No ugly coughing and my Russian wife stopped moaning about the smelling house, and of course I have better chance to see my grandchildren growing up, before “Harros” start knocking my door, again.

Finally I remember somebody said, it the past, a man who cannot get a woman in his country should not go abroad to find one. Here in the UK we have an expression for these people……. SEX TOURISTS.

 tiphat
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on February 27, 2019, 07:07:50 AM

You deserve praise for doing that.

Agreed

I've been in therapy off and on for 20 years.


I never felt a need to get help. If there is a problem, I fix it or get rid of the problem. You are in control of your own happiness. Don't expect anybody but yourself to get to a happy place.

Sorry, but that is NONSENSE ....  I am in agreement ( shock, horror ) with andrewfi  - who readily admits to having sought therapy - no negative implied

You - as in 'we' -  can ( might ) be the problem  ...

I have sought therapy re my  first marriage ( Marriage Guidance Counselling - I wanted my first wife to 'get' that I didn't want to try to save the marriage )  and had a Family Court order to visit a 'Schrink' re contact with my daughters - when their Ma was using them as a tool of revenge - which is EXACTLY what the Court appointed 'Schrinks' concluded both times ...




Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: msmoby on February 27, 2019, 07:09:57 AM


Last September, I managed to escape the knock on my door (he only knocks once!) by the “Grim Reaper” but I made a deal with him.

Having escape from his clutches, I promised never to smoke again and 7 months, I  think I have kept my deal and achieved that without any help from doctors or therapists or any patches. I simply stopped smoking, and use sugar free chewy gums and of course chamomile tea and only 1-2 coffees a day. BTW “Manny” all systems are back to normal now and I enjoy the sunshine… we have here. :party0011:


Wiz, you are a veritable PiA - but I'm glad to hear that you'll be around longer to post ( mostly ) shyte !
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on March 10, 2019, 04:07:02 PM
I heard from her a few days ago. She is devastated and depressed. She has been unable to leave her apartment and is not taking care of herself. Naturally I feel terrible. I do have some hope, however, that she has hit her bottom and will begin the slow process of getting better. I sent her back a message wishing her well. I tried not to be dismissive, but rather to be supportive in an appropriate way that is not misleading. It takes time to heal.

I hope somehow my words can help a little but they probably can't. It seems that she has cut off herself off from relationships. She says she doesn't want to lie to people and tell them things are OK.

 I assume she has friends, who, like most people, don't have the patience to sit with someone when they are hurting. Perhaps they expect her to bounce back right away rather than being willing to help her process her thoughts. Those last couple of sentences are speculation.


Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Guile on March 10, 2019, 07:15:56 PM
Dude wtf man...you strung this woman along all the time knowing full well you didn't want to bring her over on a fiancee visa. then forced her to abide by your rules. this was doomed from the start and you knew it.

You should never had told her to come, it was a big waste of time man. Now you messed up another girl's life. DAMN.

I told you to let her stay in the States and try to find another man.

Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: AvHdB on March 11, 2019, 12:28:49 AM
 This might sound harsh, but I think there are two damaged people in this thread.

Yes Just a Dude was not a honest player, but his Angel came with so much baggage, in the form of hopes and dreams that this entire episode was doomed.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on March 11, 2019, 02:10:59 AM
I could never in a million years see my self sat with any therapist it simply would never happen ever..

But if for any reason it did, like maybe I was in some mental institution and they put me in a straight jacket and sat me with a therapist Im very sure after a few sessions it would be the therapist who would be leaving the room wondering if he/she had a problem after I finished **** their mind up.. :laugh:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on March 11, 2019, 09:58:05 AM
This might sound harsh, but I think there are two damaged people in this thread.

Yes Just a Dude was not a honest player, but his Angel came with so much baggage, in the form of hopes and dreams that this entire episode was doomed.


Hopes and dreams is baggage? I’ll have to disagree on that one! An entirely normal woman.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Bruce Lee on March 11, 2019, 12:39:11 PM
Is it me or is this story complete bullshit ???
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Steveboy on March 11, 2019, 12:55:56 PM
Is it me or is this story complete bullshit ???

Defo got a funny smell about it!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on March 11, 2019, 04:24:30 PM
Is it me or is this story complete bullshit ???

Whether this story is true or not, I can assure you that there are many people in poverty stricken circumstances in the world who want to get to a better future.  Notice the migration wave on the southern US border and into Europe from Syria and Libya.  There are many people who enter this country dreaming of a better life, but end up a victim of human trafficking.   :( :scared0005:

https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle/26-women-rescued-during-seattle-human-trafficking-prostitution-bust/281-e23f7c3e-89c7-499c-b763-b9b55d42e184
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on March 18, 2019, 07:47:44 PM
I heard from her again. She has lost more weight, but she is getting some help now. She has seen a psychologist and is getting some help from her friend.

Perhaps I'll continue to update this from time to time. Is there any value in that? Hopefully there will be a semi positive end to the story after she starts to get back on her feet.

I'm choosing the words I write to her carefully. Trying to be validating and supportive and not dismissive or hurry up and get better. On the other hand, it might be selfish of me to continue to communicate. Perhaps now that she has reconnected with her friend (whom she had told me about many times before) I should stop emailing her.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: andrewfi on March 19, 2019, 12:30:41 AM
Obviously, I do not know your relationship but I can't help but think that maintaining contact is not a good thing, particularly if it is you initiating it.

If I were you I'd be inclined to say goodbye and to not contact her again. If she chooses to contact you then that's her choice, and yours as to how to respond. The only exception to this is if you are sending her money to tide her over until she gets back on her feet, in which case transferring money to her bank account might be OK.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: rosco on March 19, 2019, 04:38:59 AM
I agree with Andrew.

You continually contacting her is more about easing your guilt and making you feel better. If she contacts you then thats another matter. If she hasn't been contacting you, then let her be and make sure you don't do this to anybody else.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Manny on March 19, 2019, 10:36:17 AM
Perhaps I'll continue to update this from time to time. Is there any value in that?

I'd say so.  :nod:

Why not participate in a few other topics? Your experience far exceeds many here now. Experience has value even if it didn't end in a bed of roses.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: dcguyusa on March 19, 2019, 04:21:23 PM
 People just love bad endings.  :trainwreck:   :coffeeread:
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: BillyB on March 19, 2019, 09:39:11 PM

Perhaps I'll continue to update this from time to time. Is there any value in that?


I'd like to hear updates but the best thing you can do for her now is cut her loose and never contact her again. For her to move on, she needs to know it's over. By contacting her, you're giving her hope you may be part of her life. Most FSU women would never speak to you again after what happen. I suspect she still likes you.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on March 27, 2019, 06:33:06 PM
I agree with Andrew.

You continually contacting her is more about easing your guilt and making you feel better. If she contacts you then thats another matter. If she hasn't been contacting you, then let her be and make sure you don't do this to anybody else.

Yes I think you're right. The last email I sent was over a week ago and has gone unanswered. I think that will be my last attempt. If she initiates contact with me I will be polite, but I doubt she will.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on March 27, 2019, 06:39:33 PM
Perhaps I'll continue to update this from time to time. Is there any value in that?

I'd say so.  :nod:

Why not participate in a few other topics?


Maybe because I obviously suck so bad at this that I have nothing of value to offer!

Your experience far exceeds many here now. Experience has value even if it didn't end in a bed of roses.

I suppose you're right. I am not a fan of giving or receiving internet advice. And, I'm not really a fan of giving advice in other circumstances either. I really don't like to come any closer to advice than offering a different perspective (I'm not saying that I've never stepped over the line, either). But, in truth, all I do have to offer is my experience. And, I guess you are right in saying that I do have some of that.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on March 27, 2019, 07:14:08 PM
Perhaps I'll continue to update this from time to time. Is there any value in that?

I'd say so.  :nod:

Why not participate in a few other topics?


Maybe because I obviously suck so bad at this that I have nothing of value to offer!

Your experience far exceeds many here now. Experience has value even if it didn't end in a bed of roses.

I suppose you're right. I am not a fan of giving or receiving internet advice. And, I'm not really a fan of giving advice in other circumstances either. I really don't like to come any closer to advice than offering a different perspective (I'm not saying that I've never stepped over the line, either). But, in truth, all I do have to offer is my experience. And, I guess you are right in saying that I do have some of that.

Cheer up. Get back to rebuilding a car or any other hobbies you really like and you’ll be fine.

I certainly do agree with Rosco, Andrew and any others that it’s best to cease any and all contact with her.

That’s clearly best for both of you. Find a new gal close to you and enjoy!
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: justadude on March 28, 2019, 06:04:50 PM
Cheer up. Get back to rebuilding a car or any other hobbies you really like and you’ll be fine.


Thanks. I got back together with the local girl for a month. Predictably, she broke it off again. She said she couldn't tolerate my indifference to her. She's absolutely right. Although I wanted to do so, I felt unable to give any more than I was giving.

Right now I'm trying to get the RV ready for a week trip South of the border.
Title: Re: 10 days in Lvov with an angel
Post by: Contrarian on March 28, 2019, 07:08:56 PM
Cheer up. Get back to rebuilding a car or any other hobbies you really like and you’ll be fine.


Thanks. I got back together with the local girl for a month. Predictably, she broke it off again. She said she couldn't tolerate my indifference to her. She's absolutely right. Although I wanted to do so, I felt unable to give any more than I was giving.

Right now I'm trying to get the RV ready for a week trip South of the border.

Stop at Adalita’s in Tijuana. A good time is guaranteed.  :chuckle:

However do be very careful. Everything has changed since 20 years ago.

Considering the current political climate it’s probably best to avoid TJ and just head down to Cabo. Hope you have a great time.  tiphat
Title: "mostly" vegetarian
Post by: Olga_Mouse on April 15, 2019, 02:24:51 PM
My partner is 'mostly' a Vegan... if that's possible... she will occasionally - flip and devour Lamb I've grilled as if she hasn't eaten for weeks - think it much be a hormonal or menopausal thing...

Hormonal, I'd say. I've noticed I can absolutely easily survive without meat \ fish \ chicken 3 weeks in a month, but a couple of days before and during period I am just DREAMING about medium rare steaks...  :-\