Russian, Ukrainian & FSU Information & Manosphere Discussion Forums
Information & Chat => Visas, Legal Paperwork and Other Documentation => Topic started by: Steamer on September 01, 2014, 10:38:56 PM
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Is anyone else dealing with this?
Apparently a law was passed in Russia that requires Russian citizens with dual citizenship to register with the Rus. consulate before Oct. 4. Reliable details about this are hard to come by. Embassy website gives contradictory info about what to do and has me totally confused.
Any input would be appreciated.
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Wifey is just doing this at the moment
Will update when i know anything more
But the process so far is she has been to OVIR was given the forms, and will now get her UK passport translated then have to take it to the UFMS office
All i know at the moment.
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Is anyone else dealing with this?
Apparently a law was passed in Russia that requires Russian citizens with dual citizenship to register with the Rus. consulate before Oct. 4. Reliable details about this are hard to come by. Embassy website gives contradictory info about what to do and has me totally confused.
Any input would be appreciated.
Any Russian citizen must have registration.
It can be any place in Russia.
For example, I live in the USA.
I still have my house in Russia. I am registered at my house.
When I sell it, I will have to be registered at Russian consulate in Seattle.
I do not know why you think it’s new. It’s an old rule.
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Is anyone else dealing with this?
Apparently a law was passed in Russia that requires Russian citizens with dual citizenship to register with the Rus. consulate before Oct. 4. Reliable details about this are hard to come by. Embassy website gives contradictory info about what to do and has me totally confused.
Any input would be appreciated.
Any Russian citizen must have registration.
It can be any place in Russia.
For example, I live in the USA.
I still have my house in Russia. I am registered at my house.
When I sell it, I will have to be registered at Russian consulate in Seattle.
I do not know why you think it’s new. It’s an old rule.
Orchid, you have missed the post meaning.
What the new rule is as follows
If you have Russian citizenship, but also have say American or British or another country citizenship I>E the passport from that country, you have to inform the UFMS of your second citzenship or passport you hold
Hope that helps
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Sparky, your wife need not do her UK passport translation, copy will be enough.
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Please correct me if I am wrong, but I had the impression that this only applied to Russians who are actually resident in Russia and not those resident in other countries.
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That was my understanding also Trevor.
An exception is made for those permanently resident abroad
http://en.itar-tass.com/opinions/1798
Although this article from June states that it hadn't then been made clear whether or not it affected expatriates.
http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-expatriates-dual-citizenship-law/25432010.html
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Hi,
This one is puzzling me completely now.
Originally we were thinking that the registration was not necessary for us. To make sure we have contacted the Russian embassy in The Netherlands about this registration. We were being told that, if applicable, the registration also needs to be done by Russians living in The Netherlands. What is puzzling me is that we were being told that this registration could only be done in Russia. If Russians living outside The Russian federation have to do it as well, why do they first have to travel (within a few months) to Russia?
Were we being fed a line?
Am I understanding correctly that in other countries this is not the case?
Are there any cloggies who have solved this issue?
Thanks for any clarification, Jan
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Article Six of the Russian Federation Constitution allows for dual citizenship. The new law, at least for now, doesn't ban it outright, but allows officials to levy fines to those who fail to register. The fine is 200,000 rubles and/or 400 hours of community service upon conviction.
The Federal Migration Service estimates that some 30 million Russians live outside the country.
The facts from MFA:
- The deadline for registration is 4 October, for those who live in Russia.
- Those who fail to register will eventually be filed for criminal charges, including being labeled as a "foreign agent."
- Embassies and Consulates abroad can not facilitate the registration--it must be done in a Russia MFA office.
The good news for those living outside Russia:
- You do not have to make a special trip to Russia to register.
- However you absolutely must register upon your next visit to Russia. You will then have 60 days while inside Russia to get it done. You may not however, leave without registering.
- The FMA has stressed that any entry into Russia, no matter how short that visit may be, you must register prior to leaving Russia. (That may impact those planning holiday travel when many state offices are closed for extended periods of time.)
If you still have questions:
[attachimg=1]
Call centre hours, Moscow time, is between 10am and 5pm. Calls are not answered during tea/lunch time: 1-2pm.
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Mendeleyev,
Thank you so much for that!! That is very clear :party0031:
Highly appreciated.
Jan
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Thanks Mendy.
- The FMA has stressed that any entry into Russia, no matter how short that visit may be, you must register prior to leaving Russia. (That may impact those planning holiday travel when many state offices are closed for extended periods of time.)
That may indeed cause problems.
Probably a question for Sparky:-
Do you have any idea how long the process takes? Is it just a question of getting the forms from OVIR, completing them and visiting FMS? In short, could it be done in a single day?
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Putin is building a New North Korea, perhaps his name will become Poo Tin when he achieves this...
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Is anyone else dealing with this?
Apparently a law was passed in Russia that requires Russian citizens with dual citizenship to register with the Rus. consulate before Oct. 4. Reliable details about this are hard to come by. Embassy website gives contradictory info about what to do and has me totally confused.
Any input would be appreciated.
Any Russian citizen must have registration.
It can be any place in Russia.
For example, I live in the USA.
I still have my house in Russia. I am registered at my house.
When I sell it, I will have to be registered at Russian consulate in Seattle.
I do not know why you think it’s new. It’s an old rule.
Orchid, it's a new law. It's being actively discussed on Russian expat forums. They are threatening with fines and even with criminal prosecution, so everyone who travels to Russia to see family, friends or for other reasons must comply. You can watch this video, there is a little more here on the procedure. Now, how accurately they describe it at the press conference is not clear. For example, they say in this video that if you are no longer registered in Russia, you don't have to do it, which apparently is wrong. You have to mail the paperwork anyway.
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Thanks Mendy.
- The FMA has stressed that any entry into Russia, no matter how short that visit may be, you must register prior to leaving Russia. (That may impact those planning holiday travel when many state offices are closed for extended periods of time.)
That may indeed cause problems.
Probably a question for Sparky:-
Do you have any idea how long the process takes? Is it just a question of getting the forms from OVIR, completing them and visiting FMS? In short, could it be done in a single day?
You download the form, fill it out, attach copies of ID's/passports, mail them, and (important!) keep the stamped confirmation slip. I guess it depends on how close the post office is. Watch the video in my previous post for more (in Russian)
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I suppose it employs a few more babushkas to abuse people through a window.....
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Thanks Mendy.
- The FMA has stressed that any entry into Russia, no matter how short that visit may be, you must register prior to leaving Russia. (That may impact those planning holiday travel when many state offices are closed for extended periods of time.)
That may indeed cause problems.
Probably a question for Sparky:-
Do you have any idea how long the process takes? Is it just a question of getting the forms from OVIR, completing them and visiting FMS? In short, could it be done in a single day?
You download the form, fill it out, attach copies of ID's/passports, mail them, and (important!) keep the stamped confirmation slip. I guess it depends on how close the post office is. Watch the video in my previous post for more (in Russian)
What form? do you have a link to it?
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Thanks Mendy.
- The FMA has stressed that any entry into Russia, no matter how short that visit may be, you must register prior to leaving Russia. (That may impact those planning holiday travel when many state offices are closed for extended periods of time.)
That may indeed cause problems.
Probably a question for Sparky:-
Do you have any idea how long the process takes? Is it just a question of getting the forms from OVIR, completing them and visiting FMS? In short, could it be done in a single day?
You download the form, fill it out, attach copies of ID's/passports, mail them, and (important!) keep the stamped confirmation slip. I guess it depends on how close the post office is. Watch the video in my previous post for more (in Russian)
What form? do you have a link to it?
From FMS site
http://www.fms.gov.ru/russian_national/inoe_grazhdanstvo/
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I suppose it employs a few more babushkas to abuse people through a window.....
In that case they would be babki :chuckle:
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I suppose it employs a few more babushkas to abuse people through a window.....
In that case they would be babki :chuckle:
Goni babki!!
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Orchid, you have missed the post meaning.
Orchid, it's a new law.
WOW! Thank you.
What a news! But...... nothing new about Russia.
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Putin is building a New North Korea, perhaps his name will become Poo Tin when he achieves this...
I agree.
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Article Six of the Russian Federation Constitution allows for dual citizenship. The new law, at least for now, doesn't ban it outright, but allows officials to levy fines to those who fail to register. The fine is 200,000 rubles and/or 400 hours of community service upon conviction.
The Federal Migration Service estimates that some 30 million Russians live outside the country.
The facts from MFA:
- The deadline for registration is 4 October, for those who live in Russia.
- Those who fail to register will eventually be filed for criminal charges, including being labeled as a "foreign agent."
- Embassies and Consulates abroad can not facilitate the registration--it must be done in a Russia MFA office.
The good news for those living outside Russia:
- You do not have to make a special trip to Russia to register.
- However you absolutely must register upon your next visit to Russia. You will then have 60 days while inside Russia to get it done. You may not however, leave without registering.
- The FMA has stressed that any entry into Russia, no matter how short that visit may be, you must register prior to leaving Russia. (That may impact those planning holiday travel when many state offices are closed for extended periods of time.)
If you still have questions:
(Attachment Link)
Call centre hours, Moscow time, is between 10am and 5pm. Calls are not answered during tea/lunch time: 1-2pm.
The Mendy's post is the most informative as usually :) May I just add something substantial.
I have heard (this needs to be re-checked, though!) that the new law obliges to self-report not only those who hold a citizenship but also a permanent residence of a state other than Russia. Please re-check this.
As Mendy wrote, only those need to self-report who ''lives'' in Russia. meaning those who is registered as a resident in any Russian location. That means, if your internal Russian passport still has this permanent resident registration stamp showing your address, you have to self-report your dual citizenship. In case a migrant cancelled your registration, you are deemed to be ''not living'' in Russia, therefore you don't have to self-report to the Russian authorities. One of my Canadian acquaintances is going to Russia soon in order to cancel her permanent registration, so that she does not have to self-report.
Regarding the postal way of a self-reporting. A person who ''lives'' in Russia has to self-report at the office where he or she is ''living''. Upon the self-reporting, the person will be given a detachable coupon that serves as a proof of the self-reporting as well as of the date of it. This coupon, if carried with the international passport, serves as a proof that the self-reporting duty is fulfilled in time. Each time the Russian border services will take the international passport in their hands for checking / stamping, they will notice the coupon or the absence of it. In the latter case, they may start asking questions that may lead to the point where they may want to arrange a protocoll of an alleged infringement of this law. This protocoll arrangement may take time, which can be crucial in the airports especially if the passenger has to change planes or is pressed for time anyway. Thus, the person may find himself/herself involved in a lawsuit right on the border. That would be a risk of non-having the detachable coupon with you.
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I have heard (this needs to be re-checked, though!) that the new law obliges to self-report not only those who hold a citizenship but also a permanent residence of a state other than Russia. Please re-check this.
So if someone has only Russian citizenship but their permanent residence is outside Russia then they also need to register? Can anyone confirm if this is the case please?
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I have heard (this needs to be re-checked, though!) that the new law obliges to self-report not only those who hold a citizenship but also a permanent residence of a state other than Russia. Please re-check this.
As Mendy wrote, only those need to self-report who ''lives'' in Russia. meaning those who is registered as a resident in any Russian location. That means, if your internal Russian passport still has this permanent resident registration stamp showing your address, you have to self-report your dual citizenship. In case a migrant cancelled your registration, you are deemed to be ''not living'' in Russia, therefore you don't have to self-report to the Russian authorities. One of my Canadian acquaintances is going to Russia soon in order to cancel her permanent registration, so that she does not have to self-report.
So if someone has only Russian citizenship but their permanent residence is outside Russia then they also need to register? Can anyone confirm if this is the case please?
Well, the oficial sources are quite clear about it (e.g. see my link to FMS - or read the actual law).
1. Настоящий Порядок устанавливает последовательность действий при подаче уведомлений о наличии у гражданина Российской Федерации иного гражданства либо вида на жительство или иного действительного документа, подтверждающего право на его постоянное проживание в иностранном государстве1.
Which means permanent residency counts.
Regarding the registration. I am still confused about it. The press-conference says you don't have to do it if you are not registered (прописан) in Russia. However, the letter of the law doesn't say anything of the sort, and actual physical presence in Russia seems to suffice. Some Russian lawyers (or at least people who say they are) insist that it doesn't matter, if you are a Russian citizen with a foreign citizenship/permanent residency, you must report it upon arrival to Russia using your actual place of visit as a place of "registration". I am going to do it anyway, don't wanna get in trouble with Russian authorities >:(
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The Mendy's post is the most informative as usually :)
Yes. Thank you, our precious Mendy!
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Admins - perhaps this thread should be moved to the Visa, Legal Paperwork and Other Documentation section and made sticky?
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Mrs. Fashionista,
I am so glad that you came to this forum.
It is so good to have you here!
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I plan to go to Russian because of this new law in the end of September. Plus, there are other things for me to arrange there.
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Mrs. Fashionista,
I am so glad that you came to this forum.
It is so good to have you here!
Thank you :nod:
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Thanks everyone for the help! I guess the US isn't the only gov. with confusing regulations and red tape.
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Sparky, your wife need not do her UK passport translation, copy will be enough.
This is where the old saying of you mileage may vary
we need to have it translated and notorised and stamped by the local police chief in our Region :(
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Thanks Mendy.
- The FMA has stressed that any entry into Russia, no matter how short that visit may be, you must register prior to leaving Russia. (That may impact those planning holiday travel when many state offices are closed for extended periods of time.)
That may indeed cause problems.
Probably a question for Sparky:-
Do you have any idea how long the process takes? Is it just a question of getting the forms from OVIR, completing them and visiting FMS? In short, could it be done in a single day?
So far we are at 3 days and counting Trevor
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I plan to go to Russian because of this new law in the end of September. Plus, there are other things for me to arrange there.
This is why my wife has stayed on this time to sort this out
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Admins - perhaps this thread should be moved to the Visa, Legal Paperwork and Other Documentation section and made sticky?
I agree. Done.
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we need to have it translated and notorised and stamped by the local police chief in our Region :(
Getting important documents translated and notarised in Russia is a standard procedure i've found. Good luck Sparky!
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Thanks to both Belle and Fashionista, for those additions and further clarifications. tiphat
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So It has been Done :party0011:
We have now informed the Russian Gov that Mrs Sparky has Dual nationality
Why or what they will use it for who knows but we have complied with the Russian law and time will tell what hoops we will jump through in the future.
So here we go timeline
Go to UFMS collect form
Get Passport translated photocopied and notorised
Go back to UFMS and get it accepted and stamped
Go to local police office and register the stamped copy from UFMS (we think this is a special requirement because of close proximity to the troubles in the Donbass area) no real reason given just at this moment in time you need to wifey was told.
Total time taken spread over 3 days about 6 hours most of which was spent in busy UFMS office and various offices not being open and appointment for Notary.
Cost 1200 roubles
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Go to UFMS collect form
Get Passport translated photocopied and notorised
Go back to UFMS and get it accepted and stamped
Go to local police office and register the stamped copy from UFMS (we think this is a special requirement because of close proximity to the troubles in the Donbass area) no real reason given just at this moment in time you need to wifey was told.
Total time taken spread over 3 days about 6 hours most of which was spent in busy UFMS office and various offices not being open and appointment for Notary.
Cost 1200 roubles
Thanks for your detailed information! If I understand you correctly, you have done it by the postal way while still staying outside of Russia? Why do you say that you WENT to the UFMS to get your documents accepted?
I did not quite understand why do you need to get her passport translated? If she has a Russian passport, why to translate it?
Is there a particular form on the UFMS site to fill out and to print?
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So It has been Done :party0011:
We have now informed the Russian Gov that Mrs Sparky has Dual nationality
Why or what they will use it for who knows but we have complied with the Russian law and time will tell what hoops we will jump through in the future.
So here we go timeline
Go to UFMS collect form
Get Passport translated photocopied and notorised
Go back to UFMS and get it accepted and stamped
Go to local police office and register the stamped copy from UFMS (we think this is a special requirement because of close proximity to the troubles in the Donbass area) no real reason given just at this moment in time you need to wifey was told.
Total time taken spread over 3 days about 6 hours most of which was spent in busy UFMS office and various offices not being open and appointment for Notary.
Cost 1200 roubles
So that's about 62p at the current Rouble rate?
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Go to UFMS collect form
Get Passport translated photocopied and notorised
Go back to UFMS and get it accepted and stamped
Go to local police office and register the stamped copy from UFMS (we think this is a special requirement because of close proximity to the troubles in the Donbass area) no real reason given just at this moment in time you need to wifey was told.
Total time taken spread over 3 days about 6 hours most of which was spent in busy UFMS office and various offices not being open and appointment for Notary.
Cost 1200 roubles
Thanks for your detailed information! If I understand you correctly, you have done it by the postal way while still staying outside of Russia? Why do you say that you WENT to the UFMS to get your documents accepted?
I did not quite understand why do you need to get her passport translated? If she has a Russian passport, why to translate it?
Is there a particular form on the UFMS site to fill out and to print?
Hi Belle
No My wife has done this whilst in the country, it a hell of a lot easier this way as i understand
It was her British passport she had to photocopy and have translated and the translation of this notorised
All document had to be taken to her local UFMS office to be verified and stamped after this, the police part is i think just because we are very close to the border with Donetsk region of Ukraine
As for the web site we did not use as we were in Country
Hope that helps
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So It has been Done :party0011:
We have now informed the Russian Gov that Mrs Sparky has Dual nationality
Why or what they will use it for who knows but we have complied with the Russian law and time will tell what hoops we will jump through in the future.
So here we go timeline
Go to UFMS collect form
Get Passport translated photocopied and notorised
Go back to UFMS and get it accepted and stamped
Go to local police office and register the stamped copy from UFMS (we think this is a special requirement because of close proximity to the troubles in the Donbass area) no real reason given just at this moment in time you need to wifey was told.
Total time taken spread over 3 days about 6 hours most of which was spent in busy UFMS office and various offices not being open and appointment for Notary.
Cost 1200 roubles
So that's about 62p at the current Rouble rate?
Ohh i wish, but maybe soon if it keeps going like this :chuckle:
As a sideline great time to invest in some roubles for anyone thinking of travelling soon tiphat
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Sparky114,
Did they put a stamp in Russian passport?
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That's what I think.
They create a database for now.
Then they will decide what to do with all of us or with each of us. :rolleye0009:
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That's what I think.
They create a database for now.
Then they will decide what to do with all of us or with each of us. :rolleye0009:
Of course a paranoid, conspiracy theorist type of person might think the Russians are creating a database so their security services could create foreign IDs for their spies. Then again that's not really so far fetched, the Israelis did and probably still do something like that for their Mossad/security service agents. :hidechair: :hidechair:
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Sparky114,
Did they put a stamp in Russian passport?
Not sure, i will ask :)
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Total time taken spread over 3 days about 6 hours most of which was spent in busy UFMS office and various offices not being open and appointment for Notary.
So if we download and complete the forms and get a notarised copy of wifey's UK passport, we should be able to do it in a single day, or at most two, which we could manage on a St Petersburg (where wifey is registered) stopover on our way to Crimea next Summer, much as we did this year.
Thanks to everyone for their input.
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Go to UFMS collect form
Get Passport translated photocopied and notorised
Go back to UFMS and get it accepted and stamped
Go to local police office and register the stamped copy from UFMS (we think this is a special requirement because of close proximity to the troubles in the Donbass area) no real reason given just at this moment in time you need to wifey was told.
Total time taken spread over 3 days about 6 hours most of which was spent in busy UFMS office and various offices not being open and appointment for Notary.
Cost 1200 roubles
Thanks for your detailed information! If I understand you correctly, you have done it by the postal way while still staying outside of Russia? Why do you say that you WENT to the UFMS to get your documents accepted?
I did not quite understand why do you need to get her passport translated? If she has a Russian passport, why to translate it?
Is there a particular form on the UFMS site to fill out and to print?
Hi Belle
No My wife has done this whilst in the country, it a hell of a lot easier this way as i understand
It was her British passport she had to photocopy and have translated and the translation of this notorised
All document had to be taken to her local UFMS office to be verified and stamped after this, the police part is i think just because we are very close to the border with Donetsk region of Ukraine
As for the web site we did not use as we were in Country
Hope that helps
Thank you! So she did this in person.
I srill don't understand why did you have to translate and notarize her British passport? I went by the link provided by you, and the rule says that
Из норм Федерального закона от 31 мая 2002 г. № 62-ФЗ «О гражданстве Российской Федерации» в редакции Федерального закона от 4 июня 2014 г. № 142-ФЗ «О внесении изменений в статьи 6 и 30 Федерального закона «О гражданстве Российской Федерации» и отдельные законодательные акты Российской Федерации» следует, что достаточно предоставления обычных копий документов без перевода на русский язык.
Meaning that the photocopies of the documents, without a translations into Russian, are sufficient.
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About 43,000 Russian citizens have been punished for not declaring a second passport or foreign residency permit since a deadline for reporting dual citizenship expired two months ago, a news report said Friday.
Those found to be in violation of the law were fined between 500 rubles ($9) and 1,000 rubles ($18), though no criminal cases have so far been brought, the Kommersant business daily reported, citing an unnamed parliamentary source.
State agencies that oversee the hunt for those holding dual citizenship, including the Federal Migration Service, have yet to comment on the report.
Under a law passed in June, Russians with a second passport or foreign residency permit were obliged to report themselves to authorities by Oct. 4.
Failure to do so could lead to an administrative or criminal case being brought, with the latter carrying penalties of up to 400 hours of community service or a fine of 200,000 rubles ($3,700).
The rules may be softened by the year's end, the State Duma source was cited as saying.
Under a new bill, Russians who missed the deadline because they were living abroad will be exempt from liability, but will be required to inform the authorities about their extra passports or foreign residency permits within 30 days of setting foot on Russian soil.
About 600,000 Russians disclosed second citizenship or foreign residency permit by the deadline, according to official figures.
But according to estimates by the think tank Migration XXI Century in Moscow, the total number of Russians holding multiple passports and/or residing abroad is estimated by experts at up to 10 million, the RBC Daily news site reported earlier.
Russia does not explicitly prohibit holding a second passport, but limits the rights of dual citizens, who have been banned from serving as state officials since 2004.
Migration experts said at the time of the law's passing that it would help them in their hunt for members of Russia's "fifth column," fueled by the Kremlin's souring relations with the West.
Source: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/43-000-russians-fined-over-multiple-citizenship-report-says/512634.html
The original Kommersant article is here (http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2625937?isSearch=True). I also found this one which may be of interest to some: http://kommersantuk.com/?p=3773
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Can anyone help me with this one :'(.
My wife, from Novokuibyshevsk (near Samara) arrived in Samara on Sunday. Today she tried to register her double nationality at two offices of the federal immigration UFMC. Nobody seems to know where she can hand in her documents. At the first office she was directed to the second office (after a long wait), then at the second office she was directed back to the first office again (after a long wait again). Now the day has gone by and she is back at square one.
Does anybody have any experience in the Samara region where she should go to hand in her documents?
Is there another way to arrange it?
Any help will be highly appreciated.
Jan
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Just forget it! It is no longer necessary. The law was repealed.
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Just forget it! It is no longer necessary. The law was repealed.
I see you are a new member. Welcome to the forum! ;D :thumbsup:
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I see you are a new member. Welcome to the forum! ;D :thumbsup:
Thank you :) :innocent:
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I see you are a new member. Welcome to the forum! ;D :thumbsup:
Thank you :) :innocent:
I looked at your website and it says you do interpreting in Russia, but your profile here says you are in Montenegro. Do you travel to Russia for that? That does not seem like it would be cost effective.
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Just forget it! It is no longer necessary. The law was repealed.
Wow! I have missed that news. Thanks a lot.
That would save a lot of :'(