Russian, Ukrainian & FSU Information & Manosphere Discussion Forums
Dating & Marriage With Women From Russia, Ukraine, Belarus & FSU => Dating in the FSU and Other Countries => Topic started by: Jinx on November 09, 2008, 06:24:03 PM
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Mod note - Split from another topic
At another forum, they welcomed a black guy that joined and was interested in going to Russia.
Jinx, don't recall reading this post but I hope their were some that advised him that most Russian/Ukraine women will never consider him because he is black.
Jack,
Oddly enough I personally know two Russian women from the same city (Volzhsky) that are very much into black guys. Don't know about marriage, but they are definitely attracted to them.
You might be a little out of touch with the younger girls, they listen to all the same crap rap music as they do here and as women all over the world...they are attracted to the "bad boy" image ::)
I'm surprised you didn't know this as you seemed to have looked into my trip to Volzhky and my relationship with Olesya...our big fight in Moscow was directly related to this issue....she was mesmerized by 50 Cent on TV and began telling me she loves criminals :o
PS. Now that I think about it, I knew a girl from Lucky Lovers that was also attracted to "dark skinned men" I don't think it's as uncommon as some might think. I remember our friend Olya visiting us and seeing Ladanian Tomlinson in a TV commercial and her saying "he is so beautiful" and Olesya told me she is not prejudice or a racist. You can't genearlize about an entire country of women, I'm sure there is some room for black men there.
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Oddly enough I personally know two Russian women from the same city (Volzhsky) that are very much into black guys.
Two? Only two?
You might be a little out of touch with the younger girls, they listen to all the same crap rap music as they do here and as women all over the world...they are attracted to the "bad boy" image ::)
Oh I can assure you jinx I am quite in touch with the younger women. And I can say with no doubt that maybe, at the most, and on the high side, maybe 6 or 7 young women, and again I am sure this is on the high side, maybe 6 or 7 young women out of a hundred would have anything to do with a blackman.
The prejudice is quite high. I'm somewhat surprised you did not know this?
I'm surprised you didn't know this as you seemed to have looked into my trip to Volzhky and my relationship with Olesya...our big fight in Moscow was directly related to this issue....she was mesmerized by 50 Cent on TV and began telling me she loves criminals :o
No jinx, I did not know that she dumped you for a black man.
Guess that means you know three ladies from Volzhky who like black men. ;D
p.s. now that I think about it I knew a girl from Lucky Lovers that was also attracted to "dark skinned men"
Thousands and thousands of Russian ladies on LL, I can believe that.
I don't think it's as uncommon as some might think.
Well, as usual, we will agree to disagree. It is VERY uncommon.
You can't genearlize about an entire country of women, I'm sure there is some room for black men there.
jinx, when over 90% of a particular segment of a population feel a certain way, I think it's somewhat safe to generalize.
Of course their will be some Russian women who will have an interest in a black man. There are Russian women who have married black American men, it does and will happen. But their is no getting around the prejudice that Russian women, and men, have towards black people.
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Of course their will be some Russian women who will have an interest in a black man. There are Russian women who have married black American men, it does and will happen. But their is no getting around the prejudice that Russian women, and men, have towards black people.
I know there was a time in Moscow between 2001-2004 where it was considered quite "stylish" for women in the club scene in Moscow to experiment with dating black men. It went along with the "stylish" trend between 2002-2005 for women in the Moscow club scene to experiement with lesbian relationships.
In either case, I don't think this experimentation was meant to lead to permanent relationships.
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Jack,
The fact that I know three women that are attracted to black men is a pretty high number considering I don't know that many Russian women :biggrin:
Where did you get "she dumped you for a black guy" from Jack? I said we had an argument which was partly started by a 50 Cent music video. She didn't dump me for anyone, we just didn't click and had very bad communication (language barrier) She did eventually end up with an Armenian guy (dark skinned), not married but he knocked her up.
I agree with Brad though, it's probably just fashionable to be attracted to black men now in Russia, I don't think many women would consider marriage. I think younger people are much less prejudice though, same as here.
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Oddly enough I personally know two Russian women from the same city (Volzhsky) that are very much into black guys.
Two? Only two?
Jack, I know a FSU woman who likes Black men - she does not live in the FSU. She is an intelligent woman, and I think no matter how "in touch" you may THINK you are ( esp. with young women - if that is something to be "proud" of ) you may be mistaken, here.
Volzhsky has had instances of quite brutal racism, but does that mean there won't be women who feel differently.. who knows.. may be the attacks were because of jealousy?..
EDIT: I like this moving off topics to new places... you never know where your post will be... :)
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Where did you get "she dumped you for a black guy" from Jack?
From you jinx,
our big fight in Moscow was directly related to this issue....
She did eventually end up with an Armenian guy (dark skinned),
Yep, looks like she does prefer dark skinned men.
Jack, I know a FSU woman who likes Black men - she does not live in the FSU. She is an intelligent woman,
Cool! 8) You know one more such woman like this than I do.
Volzhsky has had instances of quite brutal racism, but does that mean there won't be women who feel differently.. who knows.. may be the attacks were because of jealousy?..
I don't think the racial attacks I have seen, read and heard about have anything to do with jealousy, at least not those attacks done by the many skinhead and various other groups.
I probably average getting a call a week from a black man who has interest in meeting a Russian woman. I tell this man of "my opinion" of the great amount of prejudice that still exist today. Sure, it is better today than 10 years ago, but still their is a great amount of prejudice and these men MUST be told this, no sugar coating this serious issue. The only women I see on websites who write of their interest to meet a black man I think are mostly scammers, as many of these same young beauties also write age difference is no problem. Sure! And if you believe that you'll believe Ed's eight single Russian women to every man bullschit.
What do I tell these black men? I tell them they are wasting their time buying addresses or going on socials. Their best chance is to run ads of themselves in newspapers, let the ladies see his photo and read about him. Their will be a very small percent of scammers responding to a black man through a newspaper. Their will be a much higher percentage of scammers replying to black men who run their ads on internet sites. How do I know this msmoby_ru? Because we run such ads for black men.
I think no matter how "in touch" you may THINK you are you may be mistaken, here.
msmoby_ru, if YOU THINK a good percentage of Russian women have marriage interest in a black man then it is YOU who are mistaken here. As with jinx, you and I will simply have to agree to disagree towards the great amount of prejudice that still exist with most Russian/Ukraine men and women.
esp. with young women - if that is something to be "proud" of
Why yes msmoby_ru, I am quite proud of my relationship with the many young women I know. Most of my staff, workers, and associates are ladies of 21, 22, 23, 24 years of age.
In addition to the actual time I am able to spend with many of these ladies, I am also in, if not daily, weekly contact with. I see and hear what these ladies say and think about black men. And it's not only ladies from Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, Lugansk, Kiev, Odessa, Nikolayev, Zaporozhye, these same feelings are expressed by most of the young Russian women I know from Volgograd, Tver, Moscow, St. Pete, Novosibisrk, Kazan, Ufa.
So although you can try to make it sound like something dirty, something it appears you are quite good at and often try to do on at least two Russian discussion boards, I am quite proud of my experience with the many young ladies, good young ladies, that I am blessed to work with.
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I know there was a time in Moscow between 2001-2004 where it was considered quite "stylish" for women in the club scene in Moscow to experiment with dating black men.
In either case, I don't think this experimentation was meant to lead to permanent relationships.
I know a... erm, can't say "girl" as she's one year older than me! so "young woman" then... here in Moscow who, in the time period mentionned above by Shakespear, was a big fan of black strip dancer called Dylan.
She was going to see his shows every week and said that thinking about him has helped her to have "best masturbations in her life".
However when her brother, tired of hearing her speaking constantly about that Dylan, offered her to rent him for a night (remember - he was a strip dancer... ::) ) as a birthday present to her, she declined that kind offer :-\
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Jack, I know a FSU woman who likes Black men - she does not live in the FSU. She is an intelligent woman,
Cool! 8) You know one more such woman like this than I do.
One of us is obviously, leading a "sheltered existence", or they're not opening up to you, Jack :))
Volzhsky has had instances of quite brutal racism, but does that mean there won't be women who feel differently.. who knows.. may be the attacks were because of jealousy?..
I don't think the racial attacks I have seen, read and heard about have anything to do with jealousy, at least not those attacks done by the many skinhead and various other groups.
Jack, when people die, it is a well known fact that the first place the people look is amongst folk they know and relatives!
I probably average getting a call a week from a black man who has interest in meeting a Russian woman. I tell this man of "my opinion" of the great amount of prejudice that still exist today. Sure, it is better today than 10 years ago, but still their is a great amount of prejudice and these men MUST be told this, no sugar coating this serious issue. The only women I see on websites who write of their interest to meet a black man I think are mostly scammers, as many of these same young beauties also write age difference is no problem. Sure! And if you believe that you'll believe Ed's eight single Russian women to every man bullschit.
Jack, I'm not claiming most or many FSUW are interested in Black guys, but I'm pleased to say ( may be more outside of their homeland) FSUW don't seem to be so prejudiced...
Don't set me off about Ed's "numbers" ..
What do I tell these black men? I tell them they are wasting their time buying addresses or going on socials. Their best chance is to run ads of themselves in newspapers, let the ladies see his photo and read about him. Their will be a very small percent of scammers responding to a black man through a newspaper. Their will be a much higher percentage of scammers replying to black men who run their ads on internet sites. How do I know this msmoby_ru? Because we run such ads for black men.
Would you not say this demonstrates that Black Men should be "avoiding" you altogether or you could offer to post their profiles on LL, Mamba, etc ?! Here is a niche biz opportunity , Jack
I think no matter how "in touch" you may THINK you are you may be mistaken, here.
msmoby_ru, if YOU THINK a good percentage of Russian women have marriage interest in a black man then it is YOU who are mistaken here. As with jinx, you and I will simply have to agree to disagree towards the great amount of prejudice that still exist with most Russian/Ukraine men and women.
OK. Leave the market open for the "Ed's of this world ;).. I'm surprised that *I*- not having met so many women as you - have met more ( any) FSU ladies that would consider a Black guy..
esp. with young women - if that is something to be "proud" of
Why yes msmoby_ru, I am quite proud of my relationship with the many young women I know. Most of my staff, workers, and associates are ladies of 21, 22, 23, 24 years of age.
Careful Jack... ! Many of the Russian speaking young folk I know are 17-19 years old.. they like Rap music, Street Basketball, 50 cents ( sorry Jinx) .. take a look at vkontakte.ru.. so I guess these "younger" folk are more tolerant than the "oldies" you mix with ;)) ?!
In addition to the actual time I am able to spend with many of these ladies, I am also in, if not daily, weekly contact with. I see and hear what these ladies say and think about black men. And it's not only ladies from Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, Lugansk, Kiev, Odessa, Nikolayev, Zaporozhye, these same feelings are expressed by most of the young Russian women I know from Volgograd, Tver, Moscow, St. Pete, Novosibisrk, Kazan, Ufa.
Jack, I used to read profiles and saw "white, Causcasian" - I repeat, I'm not saying a majority.. I *am* saying there's a sizeable minority.. !
So although you can try to make it sound like something dirty, something it appears you are quite good at and often try to do on at least two Russian discussion boards, I am quite proud of my experience with the many young ladies, good young ladies, that I am blessed to work with.
Jack, have you ever thought about why you advise Black guys to be realistic about their chances, then introduce White western men to women half their age... There is nothing wrong in employing young members of staff..
Most men with daughters in their late teens or early twenties think it is strange that they would be seriously interested in marriage to a guy the same age as them... Let's get "dirty " in perspective..
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I tell this man of "my opinion" of the great amount of prejudice that still exist today. Sure, it is better today than 10 years ago, but still their is a great amount of prejudice and these men MUST be told this, no sugar coating this serious issue. The only women I see on websites who write of their interest to meet a black man I think are mostly scammers, as many of these same young beauties also write age difference is no problem.
I am with Jack on this one mostly.
Asian guys seem to fare a little better, as do oriental looking guys. Anyone with any kind of colour that is minimal (ie, could you pass for an Italian or a Spaniard?) seem to do OK. Outside of big cities, guys of African black descent may well encounter some considerable difficulty as Jack suggests.
People who have encountered individual women who are OK with the idea must not assume this to be a general trait amongst RW. Some will be OK with it; many won't even consider the idea.
My wife has had several women who have refused point blank to correspond with black guys when approached. I don't think she has successfully facilitated such a communication yet in fact.
Interesting article on Racism in Russia: http://passportmagazine.ru/article/400/
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For what it is worth - to thrive in Obamanation - we all have to have a diverse team - a Nigerian business associate sought me out because of my veteran status and we are now a sub on a major GWAC - anyway I have seen him in action many times and you would be surprised how many highly educated German, Romanian, Russian and Ukrainian women he has taught "breathing lessons to so that they could negotiate the shock" - he pretty much avoids the ones under 5'8" and less than 150 pounds as he does not want to "commit murder" :evilgrin0002:
Lilly white young and not so young lovlies stare at him transfixed when he starts discussing anatomical issues ...
Beware the Snow Princess you bring to the land of any thing goes as you may be in for the Shock of your life!!!
Fortunately for me less than 5'8" and under 130 lbs is my sweet spot so it works out just fine...
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I know a... erm, can't say "girl" as she's one year older than me! so "young woman" then... here in Moscow who, in the time period mentioned above by Shakespear, was a big fan of black strip dancer called Dylan. She was going to see his shows every week and said that thinking about him has helped her to have "best masturbation's in her life".
At one time I knew Dylan and his crew of dancers personally. The were regulars on Friday and Sunday nights at The Hungry Duck. Your "friend" could have fullfilled her fantasy by simply going to the Duck on one of those nights and "volunteering" to participate in one of the shows. This would have required her to strip down at least topless and act in simulated sex acts on stage. Your 'friend" might have even had an orgasm.
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Ukraine:
There actually are black citizens of Ukraine, you know. One of my interpreters in Odessa was a black woman.
Aside from that, some Ukrainians I have dealt with, expressed to me that they feel a sort of afinity for African Americans and the culture. The Ukrainian world view and the way black Americans see things as a group, might have more in common than the what white, middle class Americans have in common with Ukrainians.
They love Rap. But, then there is racism and hatred as well.
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Ukraine:
There actually are black citizens of Ukraine, you know. One of my interpreters in Odessa was a black woman.
Aside from that, some Ukrainians I have dealt with, expressed to me that they feel a sort of afinity for African Americans and the culture. The Ukrainian world view and the way black Americans see things as a group, might have more in common than the what white, middle class Americans have in common with Ukrainians.
They love Rap. But, then there is racism and hatred as well.
My Nigerian Biz associate wants me to being him over on one of Nunya's Kiev parties - I keep telling him I think its too dangerous, not necessarily for him - but - for me and that I really don't want to set myself up as a target for any Neo-Nationalists :duh:
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;D I know two Russian girls both 18 and went off find two black pygmies both 48 they are madly in love
And want them return Russia help run marketing business! Russian women are just as trendy as rest
They can be better than western women!
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I have known a few RW who were attracted to black men. That is not the norm but it happens. If we are talking sexual attraction I would have to say probably more young RW would find some black men more sexually attractive( http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=54401565&albumID=450877&imageID=18807628
http://www.imdb.com/rg/action-box-name/headshot/media/rm3582696704/nm0425005
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Blair-Underwood/photo//081230/photos_eonline_en/bcda17f394901b4a33f30a2ff7d28065//s:/eonline/20081230/en_top_eo/76965;_ylt=Au7e4ZeYmotR41JPQNWJnbS_.nQA
then much older men or obese men. But that does not stop those types of men from men from traveling as the womans sexual preference is rarely on their thoughts. Women may not marry the black man but marry the much older or obese man. Not because they are a sexual preference. But the mucg older or obese man will be more accepting to family and society . Unlike men may marry the man who is more socially acceptable,forfeiting their sexual attraction for acceptance.
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Girls/women DO experiment - just like blokes do. But there is a big gap between that with which we experiment and that with whom/which we make life choices.
When I was a student in Finland we had many students from around the world. The guys did very well with local girls, there was a degree of cachet in shagging foreign blokes. I know of only one girl who actually married out - she married a Dutch guy even whiter than she - and that's saying somethng. ANother Spanish bloke had high hopes but I do not know the outcome.
Bottom line, from everything I see, the chances of a black (negro) bloke bagging a decent, non desperate woman with serious intent on marriage are pretty slim. If the same bloke has game, is sociable and good looking then chances are that he can score pretty good and fill his memory with many good recollections. The two things are quite different.
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Girls/women DO experiment - just like blokes do. But there is a big gap between that with which we experiment and that with whom/which we make life choices.
When I was a student in Finland we had many students from around the world. The guys did very well with local girls, there was a degree of cachet in shagging foreign blokes. I know of only one girl who actually married out - she married a Dutch guy even whiter than she - and that's saying somethng. ANother Spanish bloke had high hopes but I do not know the outcome.
Bottom line, from everything I see, the chances of a black (negro) bloke bagging a decent, non desperate woman with serious intent on marriage are pretty slim. If the same bloke has game, is sociable and good looking then chances are that he can score pretty good and fill his memory with many good recollections. The two things are quite different.
I agree with most of what you said. that's what puzzles me about women. The fact they will marry someone who is acceptable socially but will forego their sexuality. It used to be thought sex in marriage was a chore to women. I now understand why as it would be a chore to me also to be sexually involved with a person I had no attraction to in order to have security and a family. As though you are paying your dues.
It was also thought by therapist most wives were frigid. I wonder how many of those wives were not actually frigid, but just not sexually attracted to the husband. I think it's one of those awful secrets women will not admit. Because then they'll have to explain what prompted her to marry a man she has no sexual attraction for and it is difficult to look into ones self and admit "security" was the reason. Give those same frigid wives their dream guy and they may turn into a hot tamale.
I've heard guys say before the marriage the wife was hot to trot, but afterwards sex was not as good. That tells a lot about women too. They will do whatever it takes to trap the man. Once they have him all pretense is gone.
Sort of sad. In a way I wish women were more like men and would marry who fulfills their sexually desire and physical ones too. We may be shallow but we do not usually marry a woman we have no attraction for. Well, most of us don't. But now I see there is a new breed of men who marry old women who have money. I'm sure sex is a chore for them too. And oh, forgot. Same goes for the guys in Spain,Egypt,Dominican who marry women sex tourist old enough to be grandmothers. Seems many people do anything for security. Probably why some equate marriage to legal prostitution.
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Matt, your argument makes the mistake of believing that in these particular women only a black man can satisfy her sexually. Study after study validates that for a women the sexual experience is much more than fitting an object into her body. It is how she is accepted and treated outside the bedroom and not the size of a massive tool or the colour of the tool. You're trying to make a woman fit into the man's view of sexual satisfaction and we're just wired too differently to do that.
While it's true that a man of colour has many more challenges in being accepted in that part of the world, the good news is that if he can make a woman feel good about herself and about life outside the bedroom, then he increases his chances for success in the entire relationship no matter where he travels in the world.
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Lets add a few facts to the equation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_HIV/AIDS_adult_prevalence_rate
This is a list of countries and territories by people living with HIV/AIDS and the prevalence rate among adults, based on data from various sources, such as the The CIA World Factbook [1][2] The table makes clear Africa's unfortunate position in the worldwide HIV/AIDS epidemic, as the 19 countries worldwide with the highest prevalence of reported infections are all African countries with more than 24.5 million, and more than 60% of the AIDS-infected population. South Africa is reported to have the largest population living with the disease, at well over 5 million people infected.
On the more fortunate end of the spectrum, Samoa is reported as having the smallest infected population (reporting only 12 cases), with countries such as Bosnia and Herzegovina, Philippines, Japan, Iran, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and People's Republic of China among others being reported to have the lowest prevalence of the disease among reported nations, at approximately 0.01% of their populations, respectively.
As the majority of people infected with HIV, are unaware they have the virus, it is reasonable to expect that there may be significant cases of under-reporting and inaccuracies in certain listed statistics.
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I just hope no one shows my wife any naked pictures of those Samoa dudes,,, they are huge~! They make an American black man look like a pygmy.
My God~!... How funny.
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There was a young woman recently asking about male penis sizes, she learned they came in the following:
1.) Small
2.) Medium
3.) Large
and,,,, OMG~! Does that come in white?
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Matt, your argument makes the mistake of believing that in these particular women only a black man can satisfy her sexually. Study after study validates that for a women the sexual experience is much more than fitting an object into her body. It is how she is accepted and treated outside the bedroom and not the size of a massive tool or the colour of the tool. You're trying to make a woman fit into the man's view of sexual satisfaction and we're just wired too differently to do that.
While it's true that a man of colour has many more challenges in being accepted in that part of the world, the good news is that if he can make a woman feel good about herself and about life outside the bedroom, then he increases his chances for success in the entire relationship no matter where he travels in the world.
I'm not saying a black man is what they want. I'm saying many women forego sexual attraction for security. It's not uncommon for a woman to marry a much older man for security and then screw around with the poolboy, personal trainer,kids coach. Ironically, most of the guys they fool around with have 2 things in common. Youth and looks. They can say all they want about how a man makes them feel is what's important. But I'm sure some ugly old bloke would be so grateful he would make her feel like a queen outside the bedroom as he would worship her. But the visuals are also important. Women just hate to admit it because if they do, they can't accuse men of being the only ones who are shallow,
The day I see beautiful women married to young or old successful men having affairs with old ugly men who have nothing to offer them but nice words and making her feel "special" , then I will agree women are looking for someone who makes her feel
good and treats them like a queen and not youth and looks when they can get it.
They are simply more like men then we care to admit. As it is obvious even in hollyweird. Women with the money and power do not marry aging men. But most are marrying younger ones. Women who obtained money and power through rich husbands and are now divorced marry the young ones too. It becomes interesting as the young folks get married to old,leave old,then buy youth with the money the old ones(guys or gals) give them.
Ultimately I think both sexes value youth and verility. But will settle for much older if they are looking for financial security and cannot find a rich younger man to supply it. The women who can find a young rich man who will marry her is rare indeed as the man with youth and money is quite in demand and will have tons of choices. Older man needs much more money and will find less beautiful young women who are willing.
Truth is women are shallow. They are just more practical then men because they are the ones who will be left to raise a child alone if he leaves and have a more difficult time finding another man. So financial security becomes #1. They can always cheat and find their dreamguy on the side. Getting the "best of both worlds" is what many who marry large age gaps are looking for. A man who makes her feel special outside of the bedroom by spoiling her and being grateful for her. Another who fulfills her sexual fantasies.
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Matt, your argument makes the mistake of believing that in these particular women only a black man can satisfy her sexually. Study after study validates that for a women the sexual experience is much more than fitting an object into her body. It is how she is accepted and treated outside the bedroom and not the size of a massive tool or the colour of the tool. You're trying to make a woman fit into the man's view of sexual satisfaction and we're just wired too differently to do that.
While it's true that a man of colour has many more challenges in being accepted in that part of the world, the good news is that if he can make a woman feel good about herself and about life outside the bedroom, then he increases his chances for success in the entire relationship no matter where he travels in the world.
I'm not saying a black man is what they want. I'm saying many women forego sexual attraction for security. It's not uncommon for a woman to marry a much older man for security and then screw around with the poolboy, personal trainer,kids coach. Ironically, most of the guys they fool around with have 2 things in common. Youth and looks. They can say all they want about how a man makes them feel is what's important. But I'm sure some ugly old bloke would be so grateful he would make her feel like a queen outside the bedroom as he would worship her. But the visuals are also important. Women just hate to admit it because if they do, they can't accuse men of being the only ones who are shallow,
The day I see beautiful women married to young or old successful men having affairs with old ugly men who have nothing to offer them but nice words and making her feel "special" , then I will agree women are looking for someone who makes her feel
good and treats them like a queen and not youth and looks when they can get it.
They are simply more like men then we care to admit. As it is obvious even in hollyweird. Women with the money and power do not marry aging men. But most are marrying younger ones. Women who obtained money and power through rich husbands and are now divorced marry the young ones too. It becomes interesting as the young folks get married to old,leave old,then buy youth with the money the old ones(guys or gals) give them.
Ultimately I think both sexes value youth and verility. But will settle for much older if they are looking for financial security and cannot find a rich younger man to supply it. The women who can find a young rich man who will marry her is rare indeed as the man with youth and money is quite in demand and will have tons of choices. Older man needs much more money and will find less beautiful young women who are willing.
Truth is women are shallow. They are just more practical then men because they are the ones who will be left to raise a child alone if he leaves and have a more difficult time finding another man. So financial security becomes #1. They can always cheat and find their dreamguy on the side. Getting the "best of both worlds" is what many who marry large age gaps are looking for. A man who makes her feel special outside of the bedroom by spoiling her and being grateful for her. Another who fulfills her sexual fantasies.
I think you are bringing a strong media bias to this - many of the educated FSUW I have met in Metro Boston have mentioned that they seek a "powerful" man that can also protect them and their children. In my personal experience many FSUW gravitate towards Captains of Industry, Businessmen, Builder/Contractors, Developers, Investors, Legal Eagles who can "control" the law, and of course wise guy types. Typically the "Lions" among men who keep the wolves, jackals and hyenas at bay.
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Truth is women are shallow.
Don't think you've traveled much yet. Certainly haven't met my wife and she's typical RW in many ways. I know of other men's wives on this forum and elsewhere, and "shallow" is not even on the same planet with many of these ladies.
If you think that doing what is best for children, securing your financial future, etc is shallow then you're on very different track than most men. If a man works hard and provides a decent retirement for he and his wife, raises his children to be responsible and honest, and serves his community, do you think he's shallow because he didn't spend that time off chasing every skirt that came down the street?
I think that would be more along the definition of "shallow."
Same for a woman by the way.
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I think you are bringing a strong media bias to this - many of the educated FSUW I have met in Metro Boston have mentioned that they seek a "powerful" man that can also protect them and their children. In my personal experience many FSUW gravitate towards Captains of Industry, Businessmen, Builder/Contractors, Developers, Investors, Legal Eagles who can "control" the law, and of course wise guy types. Typically the "Lions" among men who keep the wolves, jackals and hyenas at bay.
No media bias here. In fact media and scientist will tell you otherwise.
Most women American and all over the world will choose men who are "Lions" for mates. basically because he provides well. Nothing more,nothing less. Now if that lion happens to be physically attractive and she is sexually turned on by him that is a plus. But the icing on the cake rarely comes with the Lion. You get what you get. Financially secure and physically attractive are a rare combination.Otherwise those same women with "lions" would not be laying down with men who are poolboys,trainers,teachers or simply boytoys when caught having an affair behind the "Lions" back. Why lay with dogs when you have a lion? Because the Lion looks more like a dog physically and the dog physically resembles the lion which is what she prefers sexually.
It is very much an insult to the "Lion" who believes his position in life makes him sexually attractive to much younger women not understanding it makes him "socially attractive" not sexually.
Such as Hugh Hefner who'se 3 girls all left for younger men, Larry King's wife affair with young coach,Paul McCartney's wife affair with 21 year old trainer. Women will give up sexual attraction for that "Lion". But human nature is such she will go grazing elsewhere and make sure he does not know it.
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http://www.medindia.com/news/Women-Prefers-Intelligent-and-Attractive-Men-as-Bedmates-42583-1.
htmhttp://hotair.com/archives/2007/07/09/bombshell-women-find-muscular-men-attractive/
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I'm saying many women forego sexual attraction for security. It's not uncommon for a woman to marry a much older man for security and then screw around with the poolboy, personal trainer,kids coach. Ironically, most of the guys they fool around with have 2 things in common. Youth and looks.
Those are women who "settled" and later became unhappy. Western women do that too. What has this to do with black men?
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I'm saying many women forego sexual attraction for security. It's not uncommon for a woman to marry a much older man for security and then screw around with the poolboy, personal trainer,kids coach. Ironically, most of the guys they fool around with have 2 things in common. Youth and looks.
Those are women who "settled" and later became unhappy. Western women do that too. What has this to do with black men?
jack stated RW would not marry black men because it is not socially acceptable. Some have said they will have sex with black men out of curiosity of sexual attraction, but nothing more.
I say there are a lot of people who should not be too happy RW will marry a man who is much older or not physically appealing to them as I think that is not a good marriage in the long run.
Given a choice I would rather be a black man who was thought as sexually exotic or appealing then a man who married a beautiful woman who has no sexual hunger for me. But rather for my wallet and the security I offer. For some people that works. As long as there is 1 person in the union who looks at sex as a pleasure. It matters not if the other sees it as her duty and a chore.
As with someone accusing me of not knowing women, that is not the case. I have dated many women foreign and otherwise and currently involved with a Czech girl in the U.S.
Women do want it all. Security a man who they find sexually appealing and one who is financially secure. The more beautiful she is, the higher her expectations.. Women want men other women want. As one women I know stated, A woman who wants a man other women do not find appealing either has low self esteem, or she cannot attract that kind of man. That is why O go to the gym. tiphat
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Truth is women are shallow.
Don't think you've traveled much yet. Certainly haven't met my wife and she's typical RW in many ways. I know of other men's wives on this forum and elsewhere, and "shallow" is not even on the same planet with many of these ladies.
If you think that doing what is best for children, securing your financial future, etc is shallow then you're on very different track than most men. If a man works hard and provides a decent retirement for he and his wife, raises his children to be responsible and honest, and serves his community, do you think he's shallow because he didn't spend that time off chasing every skirt that came down the street?
I think that would be more along the definition of "shallow."
Shallow to me also means marrying for financial security and putting your sexual preference on the side. A woman or man who has to make love to a husband or wife they find sexually not to their taste is pretty shallow.
If not what do you call men who are in Spain or Egypt or Mexico or whereever who marry women old enough to be their grandmothers for security. Should we not think those men are being shallow or greedy when they forego sexual chemistry for security.
Sexuality is a very human emotion. Both men and women need to have a strong sexual attraction to the person who they marry. Financial security should not be the only aim. You can get both.
Reminds me of the song
"Lying eyes" A rich old man,she won't have to worry"
Same for a woman by the way.
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Truth is women are shallow.
Don't think you've traveled much yet. Certainly haven't met my wife and she's typical RW in many ways. I know of other men's wives on this forum and elsewhere, and "shallow" is not even on the same planet with many of these ladies.
If you think that doing what is best for children, securing your financial future, etc is shallow then you're on very different track than most men. If a man works hard and provides a decent retirement for he and his wife, raises his children to be responsible and honest, and serves his community, do you think he's shallow because he didn't spend that time off chasing every skirt that came down the street?
I think that would be more along the definition of "shallow."
Shallow to me also means marrying for financial security and putting your sexual preference on the side. A woman or man who has to make love to a husband or wife they find sexually not to their taste is pretty shallow.
If not what do you call men who are in Spain or Egypt or Mexico or whereever who marry women old enough to be their grandmothers for security. Should we not think those men are being shallow or greedy when they forego sexual chemistry for security.
Sexuality is a very human emotion. Both men and women need to have a strong sexual attraction to the person who they marry. Financial security should not be the only aim. You can get both.
Reminds me of the song
"Lying eyes" A rich old man,she won't have to worry"
Same for a woman by the way.
Your argument is too shallow :D You put forth beauty vs. wealth and argue that women want both and should get both. If we lived in Lake Wobegon, perhaps. But we all make compromises and adults usually realize that those two criteria are not the end all to relationships.
Is money important? Yes! Is being attracted to your spouse important? Yes!
How about loyalty? Faithfulness? Commitment? Support? Traditional values? Believing in the institution of marriage?
Your world is a valueless one, where adults wander like spoiled children looking for perfection in their spouses. In the real world, people age and become less physically attractive. Should a man of wealth divorce his wife because she's no longer a hotty?
I do agree with the underlying current of your posts though, AW have ruined relationships in America. Where as you take a wealth-beauty trade off, I assume that has always existed. What's changed in the last two generations is not the wealth-beauty trade off but is instead a change of values. Our biology hasn't changed, our society has. Specifically, women have rejected the traditional family and destroyed the institution of marriage for the sake of 'Having it all'. They've followed your prescription...
Is it no wonder that the majority of men searching for women abroad say they're looking for a 'traditional woman'?
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iheartrw ~ Hmmm... let's see.
So, why is it that women in foreign facing marriage agancies are there?
After all, they can find 'love' anywhere, right?
Women and men are seeking a package, as much as they can get for as little as they can offer. The package contains many things, security, money, respect, freedom to grow, standard of living, sexual attraction and out of those things love might be expected to grow. Love does not exist in a vacuum, there are reasons why we love and some of those reasons are in my list.
The balance of the list may change from person to person and both men and women will compromise upon both the balance and value of the package. All the airyfairy feather up the arse words you used in your post flow from having the things in my list.
Of course women (and men) make bad choices, we think we will be happy with our choice and find afterward that we are not. Marriage is not like a shop, we can not take our new dress back and get a refund or exchange so we needs must find other solutions. When a man (or woman) indulges in an affair it is ALWAYS to replace something missing in the relationship. I do not think anyone has a covert affair for no reason at all.
Remember that among most of the women you meet in agencies, at least the ones actually planning to marry some relatively unknown foreign dude, you are the rich guy, even if you do not think you are. YOU are why they are in the agency, to make their lives better, more comfortable, more secure and if everything goes well she will come to love you.
Rich people fall in love faster than poor people because love is a self actualisation aspect of our personality. We rich folks already have the rest of the stuff: food, housing, education, satisfying work, leisure and the ability to use it. Poor folks do not, so they must be satisfied that these needs are met and then love can grow.
Anyway, as to black blokes, and white birds, all I can say is when you are in these parts, take a look. Take some time (whoops, sorry almost none of you have that resource!)
You will see a willingness on the part of some to experiment and an unwillingness to form long term bonds.
And most importantly we should remember that this is not a black/white thing. In truth msot women in any country are not really interested in marriage to a foreign bloke, especially if they must move country and the bloke speaks not their lingo.
We foreign blokes are attractive to a very small slice of our host community and black guys simply have a harder time of it. I'd suggest the same situation if one were in black Africa seeking a woman. Only a few women would want to be seen with a white foreigner and even fewer would marry one and I'll lay good money that only the poorest would actually export themselves in marriage.
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Of course women (and men) make bad choices, we think we will be happy with our choice and find afterward that we are not. Marriage is not like a shop, we can not take our new dress back and get a refund or exchange so we needs must find other solutions. When a man (or woman) indulges in an affair it is ALWAYS to replace something missing in the relationship. I do not think anyone has a covert affair for no reason at all.
I'm uncertain as to what your point is in the first few paragraphs. As I read it, we are in agreement. If you reread my previous post, it was about the fact that we, as adults, learn to compromise. For most people we don't "Have it all", and that this attitude is both childish and destructive. In addition, I introduced other factors for choosing a mate and pointed out that the spouse we choose is not only on a beauty or wealth criteria.
I am under no illusion that wealth is an important driver for women in their mate selection. I also think it is biological and agree with you in that men from the west do have an advantage in FSU marriage markets due to that wealth.
As to the quote, if one has large numbers of divorce, marriage is in fact like a shop. That has been and is the concern of many. One can not make a successful society from a serial monogamy mating culture. What point is there of marriage if either party can unilaterally end the contract for any reason? Why would either party invest into a 4 year marriage the same as what one would if they were in a 20 year marriage? Would they have children if they expected to divorce in 4 years? What would one expect in such an environment? Well we have had decreasing marriage trends and increasing cohabitation trends...
I would also point out that affairs are 'natural'. What is referred to as Extra Pair Coupling is common enough. But again, values come to play and affairs are nearly universally condemned. I do not know if a beauty mismatch between spouses would increase or decrease the probabilities of an affair. Ceteris paribus I would agree, but that would only be true if you had a mono factor mating criteria. Consider the large numbers of women who claim to have had an affair coupled with 1/10 children not being their fathers and one can see why societies try to minimize and shame those who 'cheat'. After all jealousy is a biological adaptation as well. Interesting enough, women cheat more and are attracted to higher 'beauty' men when they are ovulating.
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[/quote]
[/quote]
Your argument is too shallow :D You put forth beauty vs. wealth and argue that women want both and should get both. If we lived in Lake Wobegon, perhaps. But we all make compromises and adults usually realize that those two criteria are not the end all to relationships.
Is money important? Yes! Is being attracted to your spouse important? Yes!
How about loyalty? Faithfulness? Commitment? Support? Traditional values? Believing in the institution of marriage?
Your world is a valueless one, where adults wander like spoiled children looking for perfection in their spouses. In the real world, people age and become less physically attractive. Should a man of wealth divorce his wife because she's no longer a hotty?
I do agree with the underlying current of your posts though, AW have ruined relationships in America. Where as you take a wealth-beauty trade off, I assume that has always existed. What's changed in the last two generations is not the wealth-beauty trade off but is instead a change of values. Our biology hasn't changed, our society has. Specifically, women have rejected the traditional family and destroyed the institution of marriage for the sake of 'Having it all'. They've followed your prescription...
Is it no wonder that the majority of men searching for women abroad say they're looking for a 'traditional woman'?
[/quote]
My world is not a shallow one. It is realistic. Most men do not travel to get traditional women. Their reasons are shallow. The majority will go for beauty and youth. There are plenty of traditional women in the U.S.
Beauty and youth does attract us to foreign countries. But many men overstep their league and expect love.
I am saying 1st and foremost women fall in love with their ears. When there is no common language that makes it much more difficult. Beautiful young women also have expectations. I have spoken to many foreign women who are sick of agencies and the type of American men who write to them. many much older,obese or just plain players or nuts.
This endeavor would be very good if there was not so much shallowness involved. men who are delusional and want Barbies. Women who are delusional and want Donald Trump. Like goes to like.
I have traveled extensively and know many foreign women. I also have remained friends with a few. 2 here who married for "security" also.
A friend of mine came to visit over the Christmas Holidays. He married a girl from the Philippines who never had a bathroom before. Now 2 years later she is complaining they need to move out of their house because it only has 1 bathroom. SHOCKER! But her expectations are higher now and I see her head reeling. She never said "thank you" when I paid for our dinner even though I took them to a nice restaurant in Beverly Hills. All she couls say about Los Angeles was it was dirty and not as pretty as her neighborhood.
Women are women everywhere. Everyone wants the whole enchilada. The older she is, the more realistic she will be(that is unless you are some of the grandma's searching for young blood in foreign countries). Most men lose their ability to be realistic as they age. Their ego takes over and they believe their accomplishments will be a great substitute for sexual attraction. They then look at a women who can be their daughters age and think they can give her a great life. She may see that too. But like many young PEOPLE married to much older people sacrificing their sexual attraction for security gets old. I would say most will be apt to cheat after a few years as you cannot control attraction and it will be difficult for a beautiful young woman married to a much older man to resist a young man with a great smile and great body. Perfect example,Larry King's wife and Hugh Hefner's girls. The lure of money made them want to be involved with the older man. But the lure of sexuality with younger man was their downfall.
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Most men do not travel to get traditional women. Their reasons are shallow. The majority will go for beauty and youth.
Matt, something we agree on. Generally WM have no idea of what makes a "traditional" Russian woman and upon meeting one, if so lucky, quickly move on to a lady more liberal/Western. The courtship period would be too long for most Western men and the waiting for sex too long for most WM also.
But it sure sounds nice back in the West when explaining to friends and family why they traveled halfway around the world for a wife. :)
I don't always agree with our friend Andrew's dirty barrel theory, but will admit that most truly "traditional" RW don't sign up at marriage agencies either, so when agencies speak of coming to the FSU to get a traditional wife, they're selling something which is really not on the menu.
OTOH, I know lots of WM, including many here, who have found excellent wives and so neither does that discount the value of a Russian wife. If they find shared values, true love and compatability, who cares about how truly "traditional" they are?
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[/quote]
Your argument is too shallow :D You put forth beauty vs. wealth and argue that women want both and should get both. If we lived in Lake Wobegon, perhaps. But we all make compromises and adults usually realize that those two criteria are not the end all to relationships.
Is money important? Yes! Is being attracted to your spouse important? Yes!
How about loyalty? Faithfulness? Commitment? Support? Traditional values? Believing in the institution of marriage?
Your world is a valueless one, where adults wander like spoiled children looking for perfection in their spouses. In the real world, people age and become less physically attractive. Should a man of wealth divorce his wife because she's no longer a hotty?
I do agree with the underlying current of your posts though, AW have ruined relationships in America. Where as you take a wealth-beauty trade off, I assume that has always existed. What's changed in the last two generations is not the wealth-beauty trade off but is instead a change of values. Our biology hasn't changed, our society has. Specifically, women have rejected the traditional family and destroyed the institution of marriage for the sake of 'Having it all'. They've followed your prescription...
Is it no wonder that the majority of men searching for women abroad say they're looking for a 'traditional woman'?
[/quote]
My world is not a shallow one. It is realistic. Most men do not travel to get traditional women. Their reasons are shallow. The majority will go for beauty and youth. There are plenty of traditional women in the U.S.
Beauty and youth does attract us to foreign countries. But many men overstep their league and expect love.
I am saying 1st and foremost women fall in love with their ears. When there is no common language that makes it much more difficult. Beautiful young women also have expectations. I have spoken to many foreign women who are sick of agencies and the type of American men who write to them. many much older,obese or just plain players or nuts.
This endeavor would be very good if there was not so much shallowness involved. men who are delusional and want Barbies. Women who are delusional and want Donald Trump. Like goes to like.
I have traveled extensively and know many foreign women. I also have remained friends with a few. 2 here who married for "security" also.
A friend of mine came to visit over the Christmas Holidays. He married a girl from the Philippines who never had a bathroom before. Now 2 years later she is complaining they need to move out of their house because it only has 1 bathroom. SHOCKER! But her expectations are higher now and I see her head reeling. She never said "thank you" when I paid for our dinner even though I took them to a nice restaurant in Beverly Hills. All she couls say about Los Angeles was it was dirty and not as pretty as her neighborhood.
Women are women everywhere. Everyone wants the whole enchilada. The older she is, the more realistic she will be(that is unless you are some of the grandma's searching for young blood in foreign countries). Most men lose their ability to be realistic as they age. Their ego takes over and they believe their accomplishments will be a great substitute for sexual attraction. They then look at a women who can be their daughters age and think they can give her a great life. She may see that too. But like many young PEOPLE married to much older people sacrificing their sexual attraction for security gets old. I would say most will be apt to cheat after a few years as you cannot control attraction and it will be difficult for a beautiful young woman married to a much older man to resist a young man with a great smile and great body. Perfect example,Larry King's wife and Hugh Hefner's girls. The lure of money made them want to be involved with the older man. But the lure of sexuality with younger man was their downfall.
[/quote]
It doesn't have to be beauty vs. traditional, it can be both. Everything else being equal, I do believe that beauty is the initial primary interest. In the study I referenced before on speed dating, what people say is the most important things they are looking for are not necessarily how they actually behave.
But you need to take that with a grain of salt. Yes beauty is important for men, but it does not mean that other factors do not come to play outside of the few minutes given to speed date.
I think one can argue that there is a self selection bias in the men who even consider this. Whether we take into account the 'sales literature' from agencies or we look at the discussion forums, the men do appear to be from the right side of the political spectrum. For those who are not familiar with American politics, the right is associated with Republicans, Libertarians and Social Conservatives. The left is associated with Democrats, Socialists and Green movements. I think it would be safe to say that international marriage would be considered as human trafficking by the left and in fact one sees the most aggressive legislation on this subject by Democrats.
But who knows? I don't have any concrete evidence, only circumstantial. I don't see where one can argue though that the men seeking foreign brides are more liberal in their notions of family formation.
It does sound like there are a fair number of misfits but I don't know if this is just a stereo type or if it's true. Nor do I know if the rate of misfits is more than the general population.
I would point out that Elena's statistics showing that the men are better educated and in normal physical shape; unlike the the stereotype of the 'loser' that is engaged in this. Also, one hears about these huge age differences but i've seen different polls suggesting it's less than 10 years, which is completely normal. Other polls show the average income is much higher than the general population. Other polls indicate relatively similar divorce rates and some much lower. I think there is a lot of self selection bias in these polls but one thing I think is certain is that one can not catagorically say that this is a case of losers buying wives. In fact, if one goes by the success stories posted by agencies, I think one would be hard pressed to be able to spot those couples from the general population.
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IheartRW, I see you struggling with quote boxes. They work like this:
[quote=NAMEOFPOSTERHERE]
Text you want to quote here
[/quote]
Which would then look like this:
Text you want to quote here
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It does sound like there are a fair number of misfits but I don't know if this is just a stereo type or if it's true. Nor do I know if the rate of misfits is more than the general population.
I would point out that Elena's statistics showing that the men are better educated and in normal physical shape; unlike the the stereotype of the 'loser' that is engaged in this. Also, one hears about these huge age differences but i've seen different polls suggesting it's less than 10 years, which is completely normal. Other polls show the average income is much higher than the general population. Other polls indicate relatively similar divorce rates and some much lower. I think there is a lot of self selection bias in these polls but one thing I think is certain is that one can not catagorically say that this is a case of losers buying wives. In fact, if one goes by the success stories posted by agencies, I think one would be hard pressed to be able to spot those couples from the general population.
On paper the type of men you have said are Elena's statistics look great. But this is not the type I have encountered traveling. Better educated,maybe? Normal physical shape? compared to what? 10 years difference? i think a minority stay within that range. But majority goes beyond. Especially the older they are. Dunno.It would be interesting to ask the women who have been doing this and have met many AM if a majority the men really are "above average" as in Elena's models profile of AM.
This would be a great topic to bring up on a RW board and ask their opinion of AM they have met.
Belle,Mirror or any of the RW here. This is a challenge. Can you post this question on RW board and ask women what their opinion of AM who they have met are. Does it fit the Elena's models views? Are they above average?
Perhaps the women I speak with have too high expectations of American men. Therefore were let down by the qulaity of men who visited.
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This is going waaaay off topic but nevermind.
Ten years ago almost every man seeking a Russian bride would have been relatively wealthy in his own country, he had to be in order to manage the process as it stood then. He would therefore, in all likelihood have been older than the average man seeking to marry in his own country and certainly older than the women he was meeting.
This is because back then the market for foreign brides was different, the marriage agencies were small and often used snail mail to send out printed catalogues of their offerings. There was little or no support for travellers when they went on a wife hunt but there were many, many young women who, often with the support and connivance of their families sought a more secure and better life with the 'rich foreign man'.
Since then the market has opened up. The internet is more widely used and the mail order bride industry is accessible to more guys and thus the clients tend to move toward the mean in various aspects of their nature. They are likely to be younger now than a few years ago, likely to be less rich, but I'd suggest also less capabale of finding a wife in their own peer group. My recollection of the guys seeking a Russian bride when I first hit upon the community back in 1999 was that they were pretty well sorted, not all the kind of guy you'd want to have as best friend, but usually pretty strong and self starting blokes who would be expected to sort out their own relationships.
Now, well, just look around...
As the market is made easier to enter for the men and as the agencies seek to cast their net ever wider in search of fresh blood the results seem not to happy and that is without considering the women who are now, it seems getting as rare as hens teeth.
Losers buying wives?
No, not any more.
Now they never get that far, there are vastly fewer women willing to sell themselves and those that do want to sell themselves through an agency are much more aware of their market value. Just consider how rarely we see stories of green card scams? In almost every case now the scams are of the 'girl not present' variety - where a man might, with luck, actually get so far as to meet a woman but she finds some reason why the man will not be hers. More often the man never even travels to meet the object of his desire.
Nowadays, losers pay subscription fees to agencies to scan images of pretty girls and to 'communicate' with them. They get to indulge their fantasies without getting on a plane, some even end up on discussion forums with great stories of derring-do and their huge personalities, but for some reason, getting a passport is beyind them...
Today, I think the guys, by and large, who actually manage to get a woman to export herself to their home country are not 'losers' in personality terms. They may end up as losers when their relationship turns out to be not quite as advertised when mediated by an interpreter on a sales commission but that is another story.
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Andrew,
You and I have been around this patch for more years than most here can remember. We are, perhaps, as different as night and day, but let's think for a moment about some things not included in the "dirty barrel".
While I can agree that many men here will never get on a plane, (for whatever reason), we should not exempt those men who do have game. And many men that do make the trip will fall victim to scams and/or to women with agendas not conducive to a happy family. The internet dating scheme is an equal opportunity for dummies. We've both seem plenty of that.
Even so,,, there are still ample numbers of good FSU women who will seek to expand their dating pool to include foreigners. If a woman is bright enough to think outside the box, if she has enough to offer in the looks department, as well as the savvy, holds herself in high esteem, she can usually "sell" the deal to a pretty good guy. Men, regardless of their social status and wealth, are easy.
For a man with above average good looks, intelligence, education, and income, there is the above average possibility he can cash in on those attributes and win for himself a much better mate in the FSU than he could hope for amongst the local bovine beauties. It's been shown to happen more often than not if you disregard the obvious train wrecks. Here I am specifically referring to the educated, professional, divorced man over 35-40, with a bad AW marriage or two well behind him.
As we debate this, there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of beautiful FSU women already happily married to such westerners. They are raising families, enjoying careers, having Christmas parties, making friends, and are not at all concerned with forums of this nature, it probably never enters their mind to join such a group. They are (I think, mostly,,,) pretty happy with their decision to move abroad. They have improved their life possibilities immeasurably.
Predominantly, here we read of problems and trials, and/or, even some braggarts showing their ignorance, but not successes. Success stories don't breed long and hotly debated threads. Therefore, it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. There seems to be an enormous supply of chaff on these boards and very little real grain.
Just some randon thoughts.
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I just wanted to comment that the two posts above - despite being penned by two very different coves with differing life experiences - are right on the money and are definitely the "real grain" that jb refers to.
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Manny,
I was seeking to add a positive to Andrew's negative, you shouldn't make more of it than that.
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For a man with above average good looks, intelligence, education, and income, there is the above average possibility he can cash in on those attributes and win for himself a much better mate in the FSU than he could hope for amongst the local bovine beauties. It's been shown to happen more often than not if you disregard the obvious train wrecks. Here I am specifically referring to the educated, professional, divorced man over 35-40, with a bad AW marriage or two well behind him.
Such a man as you describe will always have an over abundance of women available in the U.S. I know men if that caliber who date RW,European women, latins, Brazilians. they don't need to go too far to find a foreign woman as foreign women living in the U.S. are pretty smart and maker a beeline to those types of men. The top 5% of men will attract the top 20% of women. That is just human nature. The amount of Eastern European lovelies and other foreign women is in endless supply for the man you have described. The only reason that sort of man would even be in a foreign country is for work or travel. Bride searching is rarely what the top 5% of men do. If it happens it happens but they aren't going halfway across the world to look for it.
Again, I would love to hear from RW about the caliber of AM they have encountered. Are they of higher caliber than they expected? As Elena's model profile says. Are they mostly above average in search of 10 year age difference? this should be posted on the women's forum as we men tend to think we know how women think and what they want. Would be interesting to see women's point of view.
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But, Matt,,,
Aren't we the top 5% you speak of???
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jb, sadly though as so often happens you don't read the posts.
Note I was specifically referring to the mail order bride industry, it was clear from the words I wrote - go back and check, this time with benefit of eyeglasses. Then tell me that any of what I wrote is factually incorrect and point out how and why, we can all learn. ;)
Getting a wife from a foreign facing mail order bride agency is NOT akin to dating. One does not 'expand one's dating pool' either as a man or a woman by using the services of such enterprises to mediate the business of getting a spouse.
Frankly, an above average man will be able to get an above average mate ANYWHERE and frankly, if one thinks otherwise, due to one's own personal experience, then one might just want to reconsider one's own self image.
However, even if a foreign man is 'above average' in a foreign land, finding a woman willing to meet and move country is NOT easy. Most women average or not simply have no interest in foreign men. Back when you snagged your bride Russia was on the brink of bankruptcy and even a noddle brain could see that one might do better abroad. Situations and attitudes are different now.
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I'm sorry, but this is laughable... :laugh:
There are plenty of traditional women in the U.S.
and Such a man as you describe will always have an over abundance of women available in the U.S.
Traditional huh? So tell me, why is it that more than 50% of divorces in America, and on top of that, 70-90% is initiated by the woman? To top it off, they have all the rights, and act like men, talk like men, and in many cases dress like men. Traditional has been thrown out the window when feminism took over this country and the Western world. I'm sure there are 'traditional women' (Foreign and Domestic) in the U.S; however, its like finding a tootsie roll in a sea of turd. Better yet, those women are most likely taken because they are the women most men seek out. I'd rather take my chances in an area where men are still men, and ladies are still ladies.
About abundance. Even if a guy in America has looks, money, etc, there is the, Nice Guy Syndrome. Only way he gets around that is if he becomes a player. But why would you want a woman for a long term relationship if she goes with a player? It just shows shes no good to begin with. :D
Besides, if there was an over abundance of women available in the U.S, why aren't there foreign men coming over here in droves looking for a wife? Maybe its because they know what most men on this forum already know...... :fighting0004:
I don't know what it is, but there has been a discouragement on going abroad, on an abroad forum. The line of thinking in this thread in particular sounds like your typical American Woman who hears that an American Man is going overseas to meet his girlfriend...
"Hmph, why is he going to ( insert country )! Those women over there are whores, and want only a green card! He can't handle independent women like me! What a loser! I bet he has a small penis as well! ::)"
But, Matt,,,
Aren't we the top 5% you speak of???
I would say we are! :party0031:
Why? It takes courage to go to the unknown, and only those who have ballz will go out and explore it. Heck, most men wouldn't even dare touch a "How to learn Russian" book because they feel its too hard. Well it is, but you know what, its worth it because I get to learn a new language! :party0031:
Predominantly, here we read of problems and trials, and/or, even some braggarts showing their ignorance, but not successes. Success stories don't breed long and hotly debated threads. Therefore, it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. There seems to be an enormous supply of chaff on these boards and very little real grain
:THUB:
As for black men with Russian/Ukrainian women, I guess there are some that would go with them, but the only problem is trying to win over the parents. As an Asian guy, I'm kinda worried about that as well once I get over there! :sick0002:
-
Men, regardless of their social status and wealth, are easy.
with a bad AW marriage or two well behind him.
I'm sorry, but this is laughable... :laugh:
There are plenty of traditional women in the U.S.
and Such a man as you describe will always have an over abundance of women available in the U.S.
Traditional huh? So tell me, why is it that more than 50% of divorces in America,
I agree with these sentiments.
* I've posted before that men are pretty 'easy'. As long as you don't have a third foot growing from your forehead and show the man a little interest, he's in the bag.
* A contributing factor for seeking outside of one's local population could be bad experiences with that local population; ie divorce. Rightly or wrongly, many men believe that women in the US are too hard to please. This affects divorce rates as well as the dating market.
* Our marriage market is broken. We have huge numbers of single women and a large number of them have effectively taken themselves out of the market.
Consider:
http://www.aarpmagazine.org/lifestyle/single_women.html
" of the 57 million American women 45 and up, nearly half—25 million—are unmarried "
"It finds that 31 percent of single women 40 through 69 are in an exclusive relationship, and another 32 percent are dating nonexclusively. But it also finds that a surprising number couldn't care less. About one in 10 have no desire to date at all, and another 14 percent say that while they'd date the right guy if he came along, they aren't going to knock themselves out trying to find him. (The remaining 13 percent are, indeed, looking.)"
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/16/us/16census.html
"In 2005, 51 percent of women said they were living without a spouse, up from 35 percent in 1950 and 49 percent in 2000."
"“Since women continue to outlive men, they have reached the nonmarital tipping point — more nonmarried than married,” Dr. Frey said. “This suggests that most girls growing up today can look forward to spending more of their lives outside of a traditional marriage.”"
More men would be married to a US woman if there were more traditional US women. Women are opting out of marriage effectively creating an imbalance between men and women in the US. DM is correct to point out that there is a scarcity of women and especially traditional women in the US.
On another issue others have touched on indirectly, I think that when looking at the international marriage phenomena, it would be helpful to look at it in comparison to local markets. Are there a lot of keyboard romeo's? I hear that there are but it's tough to quantify. If twenty men write to the same 100 women and each visited a different woman then it would appear from each of the ladies' view points that there were 19 or 20 keyboard romeos. In addition the cost associated with sites I would think would increase the odds of sincerety. I don't know if this lack of seriousness could be better or worse than in the US. Consider that one study estimated 30% of men on domestic sites like eharmony and match.com are married men :chuckle:
In regards to the Nice Guy Syndrom:
Here is a very funny satirical piece: http://www.ladderwiki.com/w/index.php/Are_You_Beta
The site is really funny because so much of it is true :laugh: The rest of the site is a lot cleaner and doesn't use so much profanity.
I don't think that FSUW are going to be all that much different but perhaps we can get more threads on this.
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I'm sorry, but this is laughable... :laugh:
There are plenty of traditional women in the U.S.
and Such a man as you describe will always have an over abundance of women available in the U.S.
YES THERE ARE. DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU LOOK. THERE ARE PLENTY OF WOMEN WHO WANT TO STAY HOME AND RAISE TRADITIONAL FAMILIES.
Traditional huh? So tell me, why is it that more than 50% of divorces in America, and on top of that, 70-90% is initiated by the woman? To top it off, they have all the rights, and act like men, talk like men, and in many cases dress like men. Traditional has been thrown out the window when feminism took over this country and the Western world. I'm sure there are 'traditional women' (Foreign and Domestic) in the U.S; however, its like finding a tootsie roll in a sea of turd. Better yet, those women are most likely taken because they are the women most men seek out. I'd rather take my chances in an area where men are still men, and ladies are still ladies.
RUSSIANS HAVE AN EVEN HIGHER DIVORCE RATE. LOOK IT UP. DIVORCE IS USUALLY INITIATED BECAUSE OF CHEATING OR FINANCIAL PROBLEMS. I"M SURE IF WE LOOKED AT THE DIVORCES BETWEEN AM?RW A MAJORITY OF WOMEN ARE THE INITIATORS TOO. SOME BECAUSE OF FINANCIAL REASONS OR CHEATING.
IF YOU THINK FINDING A TRADITIONAL FW IN THE U.S. IS LIKE FINDING TOOTSIE ROOL IN A SEA OF TURDS,WHAT DO U THINK YOUR SPOUSE WILL BE LIKE AFTER LIVING HERE A FEW YEARS? AFTER ALL AS U CLAIM HER FOREIGN SISTERS ARE NOW FEMINIST TOO.
About abundance. Even if a guy in America has looks, money, etc, there is the, Nice Guy Syndrome. Only way he gets around that is if he becomes a player. But why would you want a woman for a long term relationship if she goes with a player? It just shows shes no good to begin with. :D
I KMNOW GUYS WHO HAVE IT ALL AND BELIEVE ME,THEY HAVE PLENTY OF WOMEN CHASING THEM. DOES NOT MEAN HE'S A BAD GUY. JUST MEANS HE IS VERY MUCH WANTED. MOST ALL ABOVE AVERAGE WOMEN ARE SEARCHING FOR ABOVE AVERAGE GUY. THING IS HE'S A RARITY AND THERE ARE LOTS OF WOMEN COMPETING FOR HIM. THAT ALONE MAY GIVE HIM A "BAD BOY' image as we all know woman want men other women want.''
Besides, if there was an over abundance of women available in the U.S, why aren't there foreign men coming over here in droves looking for a wife? Maybe its because they know what most men on this forum already know...... :fighting0004:
OVERABUNDANCE OF WOMEN AVAILABLE TO TOP 5% OF MEN. ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE. LIKE IN RUSSIA OR ANYWHERE WHERE RICH GUY HAS 5 GIRLFRIENDS POOR GUY BARELY HAS 1. AS FOR WHY FM DON'T COME HERE. WE KNOW MOST WOMEN PREFER TO HAVE MEN WHO CAN FINANCIALLY TAKE CARE OF THEM. MOST FM ARE NOT IN THAT POSITION. BUT THEY DO WAIT FOR SOME GULLIBLE AW TO COME TO THEIR COUNTRY AND ROMANCE. A LARGE MAJORITY OF VISAS ARE FM/AW. THAT IS JUST NOT TALKED ABOUT. . COINCIDENTALLY WHEN WESTERN WOMEN TRAVEL THE GLOBE TO GO HUSBAND HUNTING HE IS USUALLY HALF THEIR AGE AND SO "MASCULINE,ROMANTIC AND TRADITIONAL". DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR? I'M SURE THERE ARE AW FORUMS JUST LIKE THIS ONE COMPLAINING ABOUT FAT,WIMPY AM. AND THE NEED TO GO TO X COUNTRY BECAUSE ALL MEN THERE ARE MAGICALLY PERFECT.
I don't know what it is, but there has been a discouragement on going abroad, on an abroad forum. The line of thinking in this thread in particular sounds like your typical American Woman who hears that an American Man is going overseas to meet his girlfriend...
"Hmph, why is he going to ( insert country )! Those women over there are whores, and want only a green card! He can't handle independent women like me! What a loser! I bet he has a small penis as well! ::)"
But, Matt,,,
Aren't we the top 5% you speak of???
I would say we are! :party0031:
Why? It takes courage to go to the unknown, and only those who have ballz will go out and explore it. Heck, most men wouldn't even dare touch a "How to learn Russian" book because they feel its too hard. Well it is, but you know what, its worth it because I get to learn a new language! :party0031:
I GUESS IT TAKES COURAGE FOR "STELLA TO GET HER GROOVE BACK" AND TRAVEL TO AFRICA,TURKEY,DOMINICAN REPUBLIC. ETC. IT DOES NOT TAKE COURAGE. IT TAKES A FANTASY OF GETTING YOUR DREAM GIRL OR GUY.
Predominantly, here we read of problems and trials, and/or, even some braggarts showing their ignorance, but not successes. Success stories don't breed long and hotly debated threads. Therefore, it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. There seems to be an enormous supply of chaff on these boards and very little real grain
TRUE SUCCESS STORIES ARE NOT TOLD. I KNOW 2 VERY HAPPY AM/RW COUPLES. BUT THEY ARE CLOSE IN AGE SO AND NOT THE NORM. SO THAT DOES NOT COUNT. THE OTHER GUYS I KNOW MARRIED TO FW ARE NOT SUCCESS STORIES. BUT MORE THE NORM.
:THUB:
As for black men with Russian/Ukrainian women, I guess there are some that would go with them, but the only problem is trying to win over the parents. As an Asian guy, I'm kinda worried about that as well once I get over there! :sick0002:
IF A WOMAN REALLY LOVES YOU HER PARENTS WILL NOT MATTER. I HAVE SEEN MANY RW INVOLVED WITH RUSSIAN AND AMERICAN MEN WHO ARE LESS THAN SPECTACULAR. I HIGHLY DOUBT THE PARENTS WERE THRILLED.
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Hmmm.......why the Caps?
Haha~~ :party0031:
YES THERE ARE. DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU LOOK. THERE ARE PLENTY OF WOMEN WHO WANT TO STAY HOME AND RAISE TRADITIONAL FAMILIES.
I guess you didn't read the paragraph correctly. Here let me paraphrase it:
"Not enough of those women. Men go look elsewhere." :fighting0004:
RUSSIANS HAVE AN EVEN HIGHER DIVORCE RATE. LOOK IT UP. DIVORCE IS USUALLY INITIATED BECAUSE OF CHEATING OR FINANCIAL PROBLEMS. I"M SURE IF WE LOOKED AT THE DIVORCES BETWEEN AM?RW A MAJORITY OF WOMEN ARE THE INITIATORS TOO. SOME BECAUSE OF FINANCIAL REASONS OR CHEATING.
Yes, I am quite aware of the high divorce rate in Russia. At the same time, one cannot say that both Russia and America have high divorce rates for the same reasons. Russia has abusive, alcoholic men, and its usually the men that initiate the divorce.
America on the other hand is usually initiated by the female because of ulterior motives.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Financial problems for divorce in America? I'm sorry, its a huge financial gain for a female in America if one gets a divorce, its called Alimony. On top of that, if there are children under 18, the woman 95% of the time will get the children, and get child support because the court system favors the female.
I'm sure there may be AM/RW divorces, but lets take a look, are they in America? If they are, I'm more inclined to believe that because once she enters the country, she now has all the rights.
IF YOU THINK FINDING A TRADITIONAL FW IN THE U.S. IS LIKE FINDING TOOTSIE ROOL IN A SEA OF TURDS,WHAT DO U THINK YOUR SPOUSE WILL BE LIKE AFTER LIVING HERE A FEW YEARS? AFTER ALL AS U CLAIM HER FOREIGN SISTERS ARE NOW FEMINIST TOO.
She will most likely become as bad as a typical American Female. :fighting0025:
Her foreign sisters are feminists? What, in the US? Back in her country? That last sentence really confused me.... :'(
OVERABUNDANCE OF WOMEN AVAILABLE TO TOP 5% OF MEN. ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE. LIKE IN RUSSIA OR ANYWHERE WHERE RICH GUY HAS 5 GIRLFRIENDS POOR GUY BARELY HAS 1. AS FOR WHY FM DON'T COME HERE. WE KNOW MOST WOMEN PREFER TO HAVE MEN WHO CAN FINANCIALLY TAKE CARE OF THEM. MOST FM ARE NOT IN THAT POSITION. BUT THEY DO WAIT FOR SOME GULLIBLE AW TO COME TO THEIR COUNTRY AND ROMANCE. A LARGE MAJORITY OF VISAS ARE FM/AW. THAT IS JUST NOT TALKED ABOUT. . COINCIDENTALLY WHEN WESTERN WOMEN TRAVEL THE GLOBE TO GO HUSBAND HUNTING HE IS USUALLY HALF THEIR AGE AND SO "MASCULINE,ROMANTIC AND TRADITIONAL". DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR? I'M SURE THERE ARE AW FORUMS JUST LIKE THIS ONE COMPLAINING ABOUT FAT,WIMPY AM. AND THE NEED TO GO TO X COUNTRY BECAUSE ALL MEN THERE ARE MAGICALLY PERFECT.
Yes, we know that only the top 5% are allowed to have access to great women, while everyone else gets crumbs... ::)
I do agree that many American Women are duped by Foreign men if those women go to their country. They should know better, however, little do they know almost all FM/AW relationships are mainly based on the man getting into America. The ratio of AM/FW to FM/AW are really small. Like I stated before, an American Female can land Alimony through divorce court, so why does she need to go elsewhere when she can dupe an AM to marry her, and then rape him in divorce court? Its like winning the lottery :-[
:laugh: :laugh: I know there are sites that complain about AM, its called the N.O.W :o.
I GUESS IT TAKES COURAGE FOR "STELLA TO GET HER GROOVE BACK" AND TRAVEL TO AFRICA,TURKEY,DOMINICAN REPUBLIC. ETC. IT DOES NOT TAKE COURAGE. IT TAKES A FANTASY OF GETTING YOUR DREAM GIRL OR GUY.
LOL Its takes fantasy? No it takes work, guts, and time. You act like he/she will fall in your lap. :laugh:
Haha~~ Most people don't like getting out of their comfort zones. Going to a place where you can't even read the street signs is pretty scary. Heck, a lot of people still stay in their home city.
TRUE SUCCESS STORIES ARE NOT TOLD. I KNOW 2 VERY HAPPY AM/RW COUPLES. BUT THEY ARE CLOSE IN AGE SO AND NOT THE NORM. SO THAT DOES NOT COUNT. THE OTHER GUYS I KNOW MARRIED TO FW ARE NOT SUCCESS STORIES. BUT MORE THE NORM.
If success stories aren't told, how are more and more people getting the idea that AM are happier somewhere else? Hmmm...BlackMajik maybe? :laugh:
I dunno what it is, it seems you're trying so hard to find faults within a WM/FSUW relationship, and if you do find one, (even if obscure) you jump up and down and yell, "See! See! I told you they were bad!!!" ::)
I also don't understand the shaming tactics used, such as "losers" because they aren't successful in their own area. That wordage and character resembles what American Women do to men. Maybe I am arguing with one.......
Exposed.. :laugh:
-
Hmmm.......why the Caps?
Haha~~ :party0031:
YES THERE ARE. DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU LOOK. THERE ARE PLENTY OF WOMEN WHO WANT TO STAY HOME AND RAISE TRADITIONAL FAMILIES.
I guess you didn't read the paragraph correctly. Here let me paraphrase it:
"Not enough of those women. Men go look elsewhere." :fighting0004:
RUSSIANS HAVE AN EVEN HIGHER DIVORCE RATE. LOOK IT UP. DIVORCE IS USUALLY INITIATED BECAUSE OF CHEATING OR FINANCIAL PROBLEMS. I"M SURE IF WE LOOKED AT THE DIVORCES BETWEEN AM?RW A MAJORITY OF WOMEN ARE THE INITIATORS TOO. SOME BECAUSE OF FINANCIAL REASONS OR CHEATING.
Yes, I am quite aware of the high divorce rate in Russia. At the same time, one cannot say that both Russia and America have high divorce rates for the same reasons. Russia has abusive, alcoholic men, and its usually the men that initiate the divorce.
America on the other hand is usually initiated by the female because of ulterior motives.
I'm sure there may be AM/RW divorces, but lets take a look, are they in America? If they are, I'm more inclined to believe that because once she enters the country, she now has all the rights.
MATT:
Many AM/RW do not have a high success rate either. Yes, most will live in America as that is where a majority of AM will take their bride. But women change especially when they have more options.That has nothing to do with being a feminist. Just human nature. A woman who may marry an American man she meets in her country who stood out as a great commodity and a "Rich American" to her friends and comes to the realization he is a "average guy" here may feel duped as she did not leave her country and familly to settle for "average". The younger she is, the more likely she will feel that way.
Her foreign sisters are feminists? What, in the US? Back in her country? That last sentence really confused me.... :'(
MATT:
What I's saying is there are a lot of foreign women already in the U.S. who are datable( I am presently dating a beautiful Czech girl who works as a stylist) . You said FW in the U.S. become feminist. I say if you believe that to be true than any FW you bring here will become the same. As for my Czech girlfriend she's very sweet.
[[/i][/u]
Yes, we know that only the top 5% are allowed to have access to great women, while everyone else gets crumbs... ::)
MATT:
No top 5% are not the only ones who deserve anything. I'm saying women, like men ESPECIALLY Beautiful women want it all and the men who are the top percent will have his choice of women. Just replying to post who said handsome,young rich men can get better girl in Russia. I say they never need to step foot outside the U.S. to get high caliber women as they are sought after.
I do agree that many American Women are duped by Foreign men if those women go to their country. They should know better, however, little do they know almost all FM/AW relationships are mainly based on the man getting into America. The ratio of AM/FW to FM/AW are really small. Like I stated before, an American Female can land Alimony through divorce court, so why does she need to go elsewhere when she can dupe an AM to marry her, and then rape him in divorce court? Its like winning the lottery :-[
MATT:
"And men are immune to getting duped? I think it's easier. have you ever heard of the poll taken where almost 100% of AM married to FW were in love. While a small percentage of FW could say the same, hoping to fall in love after the marriage. Human beings all fall in love for a reason. Men with their eyes,women with their ears. Unless you are both fluent in one language what exactly will she fall in love with? The man she thinks you are or perhaps the life she thinks you can give her? As for negative, look around. make friends with men who marry foreign women and join some groups. Being realistic about this helps.
Yes, there are good women in Russia as well as anywhere in the world. But as a Russian friend has said. It is getting harder and harder to find a good RW under 30 as the younger generation love money and what they can buy above all. This is coming from a RM not me."
:laugh: :laugh: I know there are sites that complain about AM, its called the N.O.W :o.
]
LOL Its takes fantasy? No it takes work, guts, and time. You act like he/she will fall in your lap. :laugh:
Haha~~ Most people don't like getting out of their comfort zones. Going to a place where you can't even read the street signs is pretty scary. Heck, a lot of people still stay in their home city.
[[/quote]
If success stories aren't told, how are more and more people getting the idea that AM are happier somewhere else? Hmmm...BlackMajik maybe? :laugh:
"Success stories are usually the minority who keeps it real. Age and within their league. If you take it too far out of your league or age you have better have cash to back it up as that is a great equalizer."
I dunno what it is, it seems you're trying so hard to find faults within a WM/FSUW relationship, and if you do find one, (even if obscure) you jump up and down and yell, "See! See! I told you they were bad!!!" ::)
I also don't understand the shaming tactics used, such as "losers" because they aren't successful in their own area. That wordage and character resembles what American Women do to men. Maybe I am arguing with one.......
Exposed.. :laugh:
[/quote]
MATT:
Spoke with a friend Today who married a Filipina. He was in Los Angeles during the Christmas holidays. His wife has been here about a year. she also has many Filipina friends who have married American men. Apparently there is a big network and they all get-together. He says Filipinas that come here become very competitive and money hungry. They all compete for who'se husband has the most. He equates it to a child who never had candy now getting an abundance of it and trying to hog it all up. He jas spoken with other American husbands about this. Most marvel at how little their wives had before. Some even had no bathroom. But how quickly they adapt to the good life and expectations.
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Read this story. There are many like it on the internet proving guys can be duped.
This guy is just honest enough to post it.Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 > Last »
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06-01-2006, 04:19 PM #1
skinsfan
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surprising story
i don't know if this will be helpful to anyone when their wife/fiance will arrive...but here is my recent story...hope it doesn't bore you too much...
about 3 months ago, my wife and i along with our daughter were shopping in the Mall...my daughter heard two women speaking in Russian, so we went and introduced ourselves...they were from the Ukraine, and had been in the USA for 6 years...my wife and the women exchanged phone numbers, and we went on our way.
these women and my wife spoke on the telephone several times, they invited us for a party, and then cancelled at the last minute....that was the last we heard from them ......
recently (within the last month) my wife and i went to a restaurant, and one of the Ukrainian women saw us...it turns out she was asst manager of this restaurant.......after this meeting, these Ukranian women began to call and stop by our home frequently....they would spend much time at the mall with my wife....i thought it was great for my wife to have friends from the FSU, and encouraged it very much.
two weeks ago, they invited us to another party, and wanted us to arrive several hours before the other guests to help them...we were happy to help....everything was great, and all seemed to have a good time.
now is where the insanity begins.......
my wifes birthday was approaching, and i planned a long weekend at the ocean for my wife as a surprise...(she loves the water)...i never spoke to anyone about the surprise......
my wife takes ESL classes at night...one night, the Ukranian ladies stopped at my home unannounced.....i have a very protective dog, so i had to speak with them outside.....
they came with a book about time shares, and said that they could receive an ocean front 3 bedroom for a very low price at Daytona Beach Florida...they wanted to make it a surprise birthday gift for my wife....they wanted to go with us as well and stay in one of the three bedrooms. .....
i was hesitant at first, but they insisted.....my original plans were to Myrtle Beach South Carolina, approximately a five hour drive(i had taken my wife there before)....the drive to Florida was an eight hour drive...i also have very close friends that live in south Florida, and was relatively certain that if i called they would come and meet us at Daytona Beach.......so, i said okay.
the plans were that we would leave at 3.00am sunday morning, and come back on thursday morning...i simply had to adjust my calender which was difficult, but not impossible....this new plan was presented on the wednesday before my wifes birthday on friday, and the trip would be on very early sunday morning...not much time, but workable......
on the following day, i contacted my friends in florida, and they began to try and find a room short notice in Daytona Beach...this was thursday....my friend called me early friday (my wifes birthday) and said they were successful with the room and would meet us at the beach on monday morning......all was working out great untill ......!!!!!
i own a construction company, and of all days, my wifes birthday (friday) things took longer, i called my wife and told her i would be very late for dinner...she told me not to worry...she really is wonderful.....i arrived home at 8.00pm loaded with flowers...we had a nice dinner, but i was exhausted...my wife and i wanted to imply go to bed...but then, we received the call...it was the Ukranian women saying that they would arrive at our home in one hour for my wifes birthday......neither my wife or i was excited about this turn of events, but we made the Russian table and broke out the vodka.
at 11.00pm the ladies arrived....they ate, and we all made many toasts for health,etc. one lady smokes, so she went outside on the deck for a cigarette...my wife went along for company leaving me alone with the other women....i had small talk with this woman, and then i told her of my friends from florida meeting us also as a surprise for my wife....this woman became anxious...she wanted to go outside on the deck and hurry her friend along...this was about 12.45am, and i was ready for bed, so i didn't think too much about it. everyone left with smiles and took photo's......
saturday morning, i recieved a call from one of the women concerned about where my friends from florida would sleep..hoping it wasn't in the condo...i assured the lady that they had their own hotel, and not to worry.......all was understood and okay......so i thought......
later that afternoon, my wife and children went to the grocery store and to blockbuster video to get a film for the night and some food.....while they were away, i received a call from one of the women.......
this woman sounded so somber.....she told me that my wife accused her of trying to take her husband (me) from her...she told me that she was no prostitute and did not need any man.....she told me that the trip was off, and that she did not want to be friends anymore.....i was shocked, and caught completely off guard...all i could tell this woman was that i was shocked by what she was saying, and that was that.....
soon after, my wife arrived home...i told her what the woman said....i could see absolute surprise and shock in my wifes face......she told me that she never said anything such as this, and had not spoken to this woman since the night before. she began to cry and went up to bed....i felt so bad for her.
not long after, this Ukranian woman called me again asking for my wife...i said that she became upset when i told her about what she said and went up to bed...this woman said that she needed to speak with my wife very much, and would call again in 5 minutes to give me time to alert my wife of her call.....
i went to our bedroom, and my wife said she had nothing to say to this crazy woman...i said okay.......this Ukranian woman begn to call......she called several times to my wifes cell, then she called me back....i answered simply to tell this woman that my wife had no intentions of speaking with her at this time.....but....
before i could get it out...this woman told me that my wife was only looking for a green card...wanted to divorce me, and bring her ex boyfriend from Russia...move to California where his friends would set them up in business...she said that she knew i loved my wife, but that i was a big boy, and she knew i could handle it.....i said i had heard enough, and goodbye...she said that she would never speak to my wife again.....i said okay..goodbye........
i was pissed...i didn't know these women.......all i knew was that i had a great and loving relationship with my wife...but i was still extremely angry...it was about 10.30pm on saturday night, i decided to wait until morning to speak about this to my wife.......
sunday morning arrives, i make coffee and tell my wife all that had happened the night before....she could not believe what she heard...she then began to tell me about these women....these women asked many questions about my job, how much money i made, and many what i consider personal questions about my previous marriage etc.....
my wife said these women in the past 2 weeks had begun to question my love and committment to my wife and children...they said that i was holding back documents for my wifes AOS, social security number,etc....they told my wife to check all the mail that came to my house, and look at all possible hiding places.....they told my wife maybe i was tired of the children, and i was a good looking man that maybe wanted a new woman and i would send my wife back to Russia.......
i remember in the last week, i was home early and saw my son looking through the mail....i joked and said....there is nothing for you...give me the mail......he continued looking....i thought it odd, but said nothing.....
my wife and i have a strong bond, we talked it out....my wife is always very loving and attentive towards me.....i could not be happier with my life....my wife told me that she thought maybe this woman wanted me, and tried to break our marriage so that she could take my wifes place....i don't know...it is all too crazy to me........remember, all of this happened in less than 30 days....
i guess i wrote this long drawn out experience to alert others.....just because your wife/fiance may meet other people from their homeland, it doesn't mean that they are looking out for her best interest, i don't, and maybe never will understand their motive.....the only thing i can think of is that i was going to be set up by these women in someway in florida...but when they knew my friends were coming, maybe their plan was foiled, and they just wanted to unleash poison to possibly cause problems in our marriage........
i truely hope this made sense to all, and that i did not bore everyone too much.........
UPDATE
coninued 12/08
i
t has been a while since i posted..i promised any updates, so here goes..
i had hoped for a more favorable result, but ... immigration is slow to respond... my Russian bride used the courts, her friends, the church and even her Georgian boyfriend, to accomplish her goals of reuniting in california with her armanian boyfriend from russia.
she never went to the immigration court in Atlanta where she was ordered to appear. she never did recieve her green card...she is simply on the run.
this woman. because she accused me of DV, (never happened) caused me to leave my company in NC and move to Fla. this never worked out, and now i am in Ga.... i am living day to day just trying to survive...no money, and maybe soon, no place to live.
i thought i did everything right in marrying my Russian bride...visiting russia many times, and writing and speaking on the phone daily.
i truely have lost everything in my life..... i tell my story only to try and warn people to be ABSOLUTELY SURE if that is possible, in your decisions.
for all of you that have a successful marriage to fsu women, God Bless you all !! i am truely happy for your joy, and wish all of you eternal happiness.
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surprising story
i don't know if this will be helpful to anyone when their wife/fiance will arrive...but here is my recent story...hope it doesn't bore you too much...
Great story. It seems like a natural thing to do; trying to find people your wife can meet that speak her native language so your wife will not be so lonely when she arrives in her new home country. But such a plan can certainly backfire on you, as the story clearly relates.
There is a whole strata of social levels in Russia based on parents occupation and person's education that most western men will not understand. Just because they speak Russian doesn't mean you need to go out of your way to introduce her to your newly arrived wife or finance's. Best to let the lady pick and select her own friends and acquaintances.
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Shakespear,
I didn't post the all of this man's post. Apparently the Russian new friends were not the bad ones. The woman called the poster to warn him about his wife's plans. He just did not want to believe her. Instead believing his wife who claimed the new friend was just jealous of her. He shot the messenger like many men do. Wanting so badly to believe in true love and think jealousy is the only reason for anyone to want to help you out..
I think international marriages are great. But I also believe many men get into this in search of a "dream girl" who may not exist.
They feel they can beat human nature and along with language barrier not fully being able to communicate in common language,age-gaps,league,not understanding culture etc. They will find a beautiful young woman willing to give him her life. Not realizing women are human and all humans search for what is best for them. The idea of what is best for her in her country may drastically change when she comes here and her perceptions of life change.
Being realistic in this endeavor helps. This is not a put-down or in any way trying to change anyone's mind. It's a warning to be realistic.Average guys who imagine they will find a young Claudia Schiffer to fall in love with them have to understand ,you may be seen as a man who can give her an above average lifestyle she has dreamed of. The reality of an "average" lifestyle in the U.S. may not cut it. RW, especially "young beautiful" RW know their value. They are also very competitive with each other once they are in the U.S. Who has the nicer car,lives in a better house,can afford Channel,Gucci etc is important.
A man who believes he will get a young beauty who will be happy to stay home,cook, clean, feed him,live on an average income, spend money wisely,not expect to go on vacations,nice restaurants or whatever is living in fantasy land. She can simply look around( especially as she starts to drive,make friends) and see there are lots of people who live very well out there . Some more than willing to give her that "high class" lifestyle. Some may even be RM who unlike in Russia, can now make just as good a living if not better than her AM. She can also communicate well with a RW and we all know about women and communication. They thrive on that. Which is why you should at least try to learn her language.
By the way Darkmatter, what exactly do you mean by "traditional". I would love to know that. I looked it up and over 40% of AW want to be able to stay home and raise their children. They are not all fat as the exercise industry,pilates,yoga is big . There are wedding shows on tv and all sorts of books catering to women who are looking for a man,so they are not all anti men.. The make-up industry is huge. So who is buying these ? There are places aoround my area that give cooking classes,who fills these classes? Mainly women. So the myth all women in the U.S. women foreign or otherwise are fat feminist who hate men is just that.
Just like the myth I hear from bitter AW who couldn't get a decent man on their worst days that AM don't want to get married( yes we do, but not to those bitter women) ,look old,are out of shape,lazy or wimps,watch porn all day, need viagra to get it up,pay more attention to sports then their wives or whatever other negativity pops up in their heads. This is just a cover for their lack of attractiveness and their inability to attract a "good guy".. You see we all make our own reality. Because AM happen to be some of the best guys around. These are the same women who will go to a foreign country and wear rose colored glasses when those FM are giving them BS lines because they have already made up their minds all AM are bad(because they ignore her) and all FM are great because they don't. Therefore not allowing themselves to truly make an objective choice when choosing a FM.
If someone wants to go to a different country to search for a woman because of a sense of adventure and he knows a lot about the language and culture, that's great. But if he's under the illusion these women are something ultra special and are only searching for a great guy who loves them to come along without a list of wants and needs in their heads then there will be trouble. Women are women. They may settle but not for long. Probably the reason why many RW/AM marriages do fail within the first 5 years or shortly after GC.
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Shakespear,
I didn't post the all of this man's post. Apparently the Russian new friends were not the bad ones. The woman called the poster to warn him about his wife's plans. He just did not want to believe her. Instead believing his wife who claimed the new friend was just jealous of her. He shot the messenger like many men do. Wanting so badly to believe in true love and think jealousy is the only reason for anyone to want to help you out..
I think international marriages are great. But I also believe many men get into this in search of a "dream girl" who may not exist.
They feel they can beat human nature and along with language barrier not fully being able to communicate in common language,age-gaps,league,not understanding culture etc. They will find a beautiful young woman willing to give him her life. Not realizing women are human and all humans search for what is best for them. The idea of what is best for her in her country may drastically change when she comes here and her perceptions of life change.
Being realistic in this endeavor helps. This is not a put-down or in any way trying to change anyone's mind. It's a warning to be realistic.Average guys who imagine they will find a young Claudia Schiffer to fall in love with them have to understand ,you may be seen as a man who can give her an above average lifestyle she has dreamed of. The reality of an "average" lifestyle in the U.S. may not cut it. RW, especially "young beautiful" RW know their value. They are also very competitive with each other once they are in the U.S. Who has the nicer car,lives in a better house,can afford Channel,Gucci etc is important.
A man who believes he will get a young beauty who will be happy to stay home,cook, clean, feed him,live on an average income, spend money wisely,not expect to go on vacations,nice restaurants or whatever is living in fantasy land. She can simply look around( especially as she starts to drive,make friends) and see there are lots of people who live very well out there . Some more than willing to give her that "high class" lifestyle. Some may even be RM who unlike in Russia, can now make just as good a living if not better than her AM. She can also communicate well with a RW and we all know about women and communication. They thrive on that. Which is why you should at least try to learn her language.
By the way Darkmatter, what exactly do you mean by "traditional". I would love to know that. I looked it up and over 40% of AW want to be able to stay home and raise their children. They are not all fat as the exercise industry,pilates,yoga is big . There are wedding shows on tv and all sorts of books catering to women who are looking for a man,so they are not all anti men.. The make-up industry is huge. So who is buying these ? There are places aoround my area that give cooking classes,who fills these classes? Mainly women. So the myth all women in the U.S. women foreign or otherwise are fat feminist who hate men is just that.
Just like the myth I hear from bitter AW who couldn't get a decent man on their worst days that AM don't want to get married( yes we do, but not to those bitter women) ,look old,are out of shape,lazy or wimps,watch porn all day, need viagra to get it up,pay more attention to sports then their wives or whatever other negativity pops up in their heads. This is just a cover for their lack of attractiveness and their inability to attract a "good guy".. You see we all make our own reality. Because AM happen to be some of the best guys around. These are the same women who will go to a foreign country and wear rose colored glasses when those FM are giving them BS lines because they have already made up their minds all AM are bad(because they ignore her) and all FM are great because they don't. Therefore not allowing themselves to truly make an objective choice when choosing a FM.
If someone wants to go to a different country to search for a woman because of a sense of adventure and he knows a lot about the language and culture, that's great. But if he's under the illusion these women are something ultra special and are only searching for a great guy who loves them to come along without a list of wants and needs in their heads then there will be trouble. Women are women. They may settle but not for long. Probably the reason why many RW/AM marriages do fail within the first 5 years or shortly after GC.
Matt I have some news for you my friend, ALL WOMEN CHANGE when you get married. It doesn't matter where they are from. :)
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Read this story. There are many like it on the internet proving guys can be duped.
All... these... ellipsis....instead...of...periods.... and no caps for sure.
mi i's hurt aint your?
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There is a whole strata of social levels in Russia based on parents occupation and person's education that most western men will not understand.
Amen. SS, we could write about this one at length it's so important.
Just because they speak Russian doesn't mean you need to go out of your way to introduce her to your newly arrived wife or finance's. Best to let the lady pick and select her own friends and acquaintances.
Amen, Amen.
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There is a whole strata of social levels in Russia based on parents occupation and person's education that most western men will not understand.
Amen. SS, we could write about this one at length it's so important.
I'd be happy to participate if you'd get it started. However in the stratum of FSU women topics, this one would be what I'd call "graduate school level" compared to many of the "introductory level" topics covered on this board. Perhaps it should be in a new thread and in a different board topic? Perhaps we could keep it in "The Adventure Continues" or move it to "Married".
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On the topic of Black men and white women - what about white men and black women - I have a Nigerian business associate who keeps pushing me to visit his home town of Port Harcourt Nigeria. He insists that there are a tribe of light skinned African women who due to centuries of trading with Europe are stunningly beautiful and very traditional - they expect their man to take at least 5 to 10 wives and enjoy the work sharing.
I told him I do not have his natural stamina and pleasing more than one wife would probably kill me :o
He is a past NAACP local chapter president and a decent enough guy - he has a US passport now which he is quite proud of - but is surprisingly dismissive of US black women - when I ask why he says they have way to much BWA (Black Woman's Attitude) and do not respect their men the way real African women do. He says that is why 80% of US Black Women are single. He only has a little local Hareem of white women that he services on a rotating basis. He says its not natural for an African warrior to be bound to only one woman!
He does not smile when I say look I am an old fashioned guy and just want any future kids to resemble me and so I want one of my own kind - an educated Celtic-Nordic-Germanic-Slavic Christian woman with family values.
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I couldn't say what the ratio of ladies who would accept a Black in Russia would be, when I was over there and even in communications it was not really a topic I recall talking about to many people.
I can say, my Wife .. while nice to individual people, really does not care for blacks as a group and she is very surprised at the number of white American girls that will date them.
We have gotten to know a number (but not a lot) of Russians since my wife moved here and this seems to be a common sentiment among most Russians we have met.
Some of the observations are Blacks are Loud in public, their manor of dress is often cartoonish, usually have a cell phone to their ear, sensitive to cold as often they wear more clothing than needed... given the temp.
She is amazed the way black girls can make their Pupka stick out. (even a little envious)
Within the first month or so she was here, we stopped at a gas station to get coffee, in a black part of town and her purse was stolen. Thankfully her passport or nothing important was in it but after that wasn't a good start for her.
I think the problem is (and I'll just be honest) the worst of Blacks are often the most visible.
What I mean, is, every shiftless black guy, is on the street for everyone to see, parading around with their pants half down as we drive by.
The majority of normal working black folks are either at work, driving in their car or at home, not quite as visible so it creates I think a little bit of a false perception of what the typical Afro American is like.
When I explain this to her, she asks "where are all the shiftless white people at"?
It's tuff to debate a RW.
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LMAO @ "where are all the shiftless white people at"? :ROFL: :ROFL:
Bring her to most places of employment, I'll show her a large segment of them .... lol
"When time is lunch break ?"
"How long are breaks ?"
"When is payday?"
"Dude, do they drug test here?"
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Well pf course there ARE shiftless white People, but thats a different subject.
You suggested we "Go" to "places of unemployment" to find them.
Your suggesting that we must go to some place special or specific to find them seems to agree with my point.
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surprising story
i don't know if this will be helpful to anyone when their wife/fiance will arrive...but here is my recent story...hope it doesn't bore you too much...
Great story. It seems like a natural thing to do; trying to find people your wife can meet that speak her native language so your wife will not be so lonely when she arrives in her new home country. But such a plan can certainly backfire on you, as the story clearly relates.
There is a whole strata of social levels in Russia based on parents occupation and person's education that most western men will not understand. Just because they speak Russian doesn't mean you need to go out of your way to introduce her to your newly arrived wife or finance's. Best to let the lady pick and select her own friends and acquaintances.
Um...how did these friends backfire on the guy? They actually told him the truth but he believed his wife and now he's barely eking out a living after moving twice and losing his job.
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:offtopic: :D :D :D :D I dont understand such unions :biggrin:
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:offtopic: :D :D :D :D I dont understand such unions :biggrin:
Well it seems to be quite the rage here now - all the single ladies want to be Obama mamas!
The majority of young working class Lily White Moo Hampshire white girls buying into the section 8 wic medicare foodstamps culture (Why not - they would have to earn $50K+ to have similar benefits if working)... Most have a mixed Race child in the stroller now - and their Obama daddy by their side - makes applying for the dole programs go so much easier!
It truly has become an Obama mamma nation :smokin:
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My own experience and conversations in Russian and Ukraine indicates to me that very few, if any, UW and RW are interested or would even consider a black man at all either for dating or marriage. Not to say it doesn't happen, I remember a great story a number of years back on the St John's list from a black man who seemed to find happiness but I never heard what happened after his first trip to meet his lady. I'm sure it can and does happen and there will, like in any society, a small percentage of women who will seek outside the norm and be open to it. It's just not the norm, nor even close. I've talked with RW and UW and heard them openly make fun of such unions. I've asked friends of my wife and ex's there and all have said that they would *never* consider it. I've heard women make fun of mixed race (half black, half white) children in restaurants. It's openly known that there is a lot of racist hate crimes against blacks in Russia and to a lesser extent in Ukraine.
Those here who think otherwise with singular examples are IMHO kidding themselves. We may be a forward thinking country but eastern Europe is not at this time. I'm completely with Jack on this, he's 100% right.
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I've asked friends of my wife and ex's there and all have said that they would *never* consider it.
I have heard this many times also, however, a coupe of years ago I met and spent some time with a black guy (English) in Kiev and his then gf, who are now happily married and living in the UK with her son and their a new born baby, as far as I know they are all very happy, I have not spoken to him for some time now but last I heard everyone was doing well. I do agree though that this is not the norm, there is still a lot of prejudice in the FSU from what I have seen myself.
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Hi, well i am a colored guy from the Netherlands, (Dutch father, Biafran mother) and have been to the FSU on three trips (as of this writing). I must say there were no problems meeting girls at all, even the extreemly hot ones (That was kindof unexpected).
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I am surprised some people are making a big deal out of this, -- gives me red flags--, I have a Russian female collega from the FSU (she is married to a guy 43 and she is 26 and has been living here for three years in Belgium). I found out she checked my biodata in the HR-system, "she found me interesting" (her quote). I was pleasently surprised but also kindof creeped out....(stalker alert).
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The fact is i dont care about all of this, racism or etnocentrism in Nigeria/Lagos (where i was born and grew up) is very bad. Father had to hire bodygards to protect me and my mother whenever we ventured out into the city. I have never been to Russia, but i cannot imagine it being worse then the country i was born.
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If 90% ( is this a guess?) of the Russians would NOT consider me as a potential mate thats their free choice i do not have an opinion about that nor do i care about what supposidly 90% thinks. Life is to short for me to worry about any of that.
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My own experience and conversations in Russian and Ukraine indicates to me that very few, if any, UW and RW are interested or would even consider a black man at all either for dating or marriage.
I know there was a time in Moscow between 2001-2004 where it was considered quite "stylish" for women in the club scene in Moscow to experiment with dating black men. It went along with the "stylish" trend between 2002-2006 for women in the Moscow club scene to experiment with lesbian relationships.
In either case, I don't think this experimentation was a percursor toward a permanent relationship.
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Hey shakespeare i read this thread and you are re-hasing the sexual experimentation argument.
copy-paste..., i like those keystrokes!
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Hey shakespeare i read this thread and you are re-hasing the sexual experimentation argument.
copy-paste..., i like those keystrokes!
Thought you might have missed the original post some month ago. So I re-posted since it seemed on point with the discussion and your questions. My, you're a hard one to please aren't you?
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No i didnt shakespeare i read all messages, i dont think what happened in 2001/2002 is really relevent. Especially the club scene is not the scene to look for i wife (can be wrong about the club scene in Moscow as i have never been there). Were there any colored people in large enough numbers in Russia to make "dating black men" that a sub-culture? Anyway,..., what happens in Moscow stays in Moscow i guess!
My, you're a hard one to please aren't you?
I have high standards... shoot me!, lol :fighting0025:
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Leo, I believe you will find this interesting:
Some years ago I had traveled out to the very end of the Moscow Metro. That evening it was a long ride back in toward Moscow by bus and finally back on the Metro. Life is far different out that far and at the first station I boarded the Metro along with 4 young black teen/adults. That is not common.
They were not from Africa to my thinking because they weren't as darkskinned as most Africans. They looked more like African Americans to me and its certainly possible as there were some black families who moved to the Soviet Union not long after the Revolution in hopes of finding a more equitable society. Sadly, those folks jumped from the frying pan into the fire so to speak.
These four young adults were very quiet. More so than usual. It was clear that they were at once both familiar with the surroundings but at the same time uncomfortable. They spoke Russian to each other but avoided eye contact with everyone else. While possible that they were foreign students, I had the sense from their clothing, etc, that they were part of the general population.
As it was the beginning of the line, there was lots of room in the car. I noticed that everyone else sat at the front half and these 4 sat at the back. I sat down across from them because these things are interesting to me, not to mention good documentation for news and human interest features. It would have been really fascinating to learn whether they spoke any English too.
Heads down except for when looking at each other it had been my intention on opening some sort of a conversation but a mere 3 minutes later at the next stop they jumped up and disappeared into the night.
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Leo, I believe you will find this interesting:
Some years ago I had traveled out to the very end of the Moscow Metro. That evening it was a long ride back in toward Moscow by bus and finally back on the Metro. Life is far different out that far and at the first station I boarded the Metro along with 4 young black teen/adults. That is not common.
They were not from Africa to my thinking because they weren't as darkskinned as most Africans. They looked more like African Americans to me and its certainly possible as there were some black families who moved to the Soviet Union not long after the Revolution in hopes of finding a more equitable society. Sadly, those folks jumped from the frying pan into the fire so to speak.
These four young adults were very quiet. More so than usual. It was clear that they were at once both familiar with the surroundings but at the same time uncomfortable. They spoke Russian to each other but avoided eye contact with everyone else. While possible that they were foreign students, I had the sense from their clothing, etc, that they were part of the general population.
As it was the beginning of the line, there was lots of room in the car. I noticed that everyone else sat at the front half and these 4 sat at the back. I sat down across from them because these things are interesting to me, not to mention good documentation for news and human interest features. It would have been really fascinating to learn whether they spoke any English too.
Heads down except for when looking at each other it had been my intention on opening some sort of a conversation but a mere 3 minutes later at the next stop they jumped up and disappeared into the night.
That's very interesting Mendy. I'll see what I can dig up from the archives.
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I've moved the last four pages of utter nonsense from this topic to Heated Discussion where it belongs. Continue your discussion there if you wish.
Brass
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Is Sankt Petr really the "capital of Russian racism?"
Watch this video and decide for yourself:
This documentary is also helpful in telling how foreign visitors to St P have arranged their schedules daily in order to practice safety while in the city.
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Thanks Brass!!!
Again, as a colored (i am mixed race myself) guy living in Brussels persuing an FSU wife (for now), i dont see why such a topic is important, people in Western Europe have freedom of choice, but you dont a lot of "mixing" going on at all (although they like to think otherwise, lol). Anyway, if Russian are more upfront about it, i like that, cuts through all the BS.
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Couple of years back i put my profile on Elena models (must have been 2004/2005) halfhartedly to see what my responses would be (not even thinking my race would be an issue at all) and was plesently awash in messages and adds. At that time i was not serious in my search so i didnt pay for a membership to open and read those letters. If these were the small section of women who would (accourding to some here) see me as a total mate that would have been more then enough for me, i dont think i can handle corresponding to more then 10 ladies a week.
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There is a difference between Ukraine and Russia, the Ukrainian responses are far more in Number,..., could have been the sites i use. I havent been to Russia yet, but the Ukranians are very very down to earth.
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Illegal Immigration comments have been moved. Please post responses to those issues at this address: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=2204.0
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Leo, I would suggest you watch some of the videos if you haven't already. I was vague on my above post, because I was writing it as if everyone had seen the same videos as I did. The issues are like Med says in big cities, where the economy is doing well, (prior to recession). As one Russian man states, "Companies are bringing in migrant workers and paying them 1 dollar a day, instead of paying a Russian 10 dollars a day". Like I said, if a man can't make a decent salary for himself, and is being under bid on jobs from migrant workers, you can expect animosity.
For the record, I think Obama is full of crap, therefore I do not listen to a word he says or should I say reads.
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I never said Moscow.
If you are interested watch the videos. They explain it better than I ever could.
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We're going to reopen this topic under the provision that it stays on topic.
Immigration comments are here: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=2204.0
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I guess i am th eonly "black" guy in the group
My first American girlffriend who was also my fiancee ( i was 29 at the time) lost some good friends because of me, so nothing new for me, my father (who is Dutch) hired personal ex military bodygards 24/7 to protect me and my mother. So i understand this topic is initiated by white men having issues with people like me dating FSu women. (Because we are not talking about Asians here are we?), that is less of an issue with the average poster , i guess. That being said, i respect women choice if they do not want to date me, i respect that, its called personal freedom.
Altough i do wonder is why the women in Odessa , Kiev/Minsk were checking me out (only the women , not the men mind you..) Was it my 600 USD shoes? my 4000 USD leather coat? Or my "beautyfull eyes" as one lady stated to me in Odessa?
Why do white men on this forum care anyway?? really, can someone answer me this?
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Why do white men on this forum care anyway?? really, can someone answer me this?
I don't. I firmly believe that you do not have to satisfy all RW, just the one that you will marry. True, given racism, it might be a bit harder, but there are plenty of women who are not and will marry the man they love, no matter how much or how little melanin is visible in their skin :popcorn:
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Why do white men on this forum care anyway?? really, can someone answer me this?
I don't. I firmly believe that you do not have to satisfy all RW, just the one that you will marry. True, given racism, it might be a bit harder, but there are plenty of women who are not and will marry the man they love, no matter how much or how little melanin is visible in their skin :popcorn:
No it isnt harder at all, i lot of posters have personal problems believing this, but i cannot handle more attention then i am getting now. It is a numbers game like for anyone else, but if some folks would like to believe it is harder for me then for the average caucasian, if that makes them feel better somehow, who am i to take that "fuzzy" feeling away from them (lol). Go with that. I have my hands full as it is. It at makes you mad, tuff luck,..thats my reality
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but if some folks would like to believe it is harder for me then for the average caucasian, if that makes them feel better somehow, who am i to take that "fuzzy" feeling away from them (lol). Go with that.
I don't know, since I haven't experience it personally. I have just heard the second-hand accounts from a friend who is African, immigrated to the Soviet Union and is now married to a woman from Belarus. His wife told us about the challenges she faced getting her husband accepted by her family. One of the reasons why they immigrated was because of racism: the wife worried for the well-being of her husband and children. Should I believe her? Again, the sample is limited, so I do not know. Racism does exist, what is debatable is to what extent it is prevalent.
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They left Belarus, or they is still living in Belarus?
Belarus is low on selfprotection and personal liberty...it is still a dictarotship and an all powerfull state, but these have nothing to do with racism , as the ability to counter it is of the individual freedom to pretect himself against it.,
So the problem (as i see it) wasnt racism but the lack of the individual , in said country, to protect hilmself against racism,
By the way, i believe the right to discriminate is someones inalianable right, the problem is that those people believe that everybody shoudl adhere to their dogma,...imposed by force of course...
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They left Belarus, or they is still living in Belarus?
They left Belarus.
So the problem (as i see it) wasnt racism but the lack of the individual , in said country, to protect hilmself against racism,
Well, in that case, my friends decided that it was easier to protect themselves against racism in Canada.
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Leo, this topic is about "Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women" not about gun laws and anything else you might have dreamed up within the dozen or so posts that have just been deleted. This topic is not your personal blog.
Please try to stay on topic - think before you post (and use the spell check button).
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The last time I was in Moscow (end of June) the lady I was with pointed out an interracial couple getting their wedding pictures taken as she thought it was so unusual (I did not even notice as it's pretty common here). So, based on my travels and the people I have interacted with, most are still not too accepting to outright racist and attitudes are well behind what you have in western Europe or America.
Probably the best example is portrayed in a Russian movie I watched (sorry I do not remember the name) where there was interaction amongst low level gangsters of which one was black. They were always calling him the Ethiopian and he would always reply, "but I was born in Russia". So in a way, a black person is still somewhat an oddity in Russia in 2009, especially outside of Moscow.
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So in a way, a black person is still somewhat an oddity in Russia in 2009, especially outside of Moscow.
...if we talking about how often you can meet black person in Russia ,then of course answer-not offten)))...for example compare Saint Petersburg and Helsinki, in Helsinki- you can meet them much more often)))))......if we talking about attitude.....we are very friendly in general :biggrin: ,and dont pay attention to nationality..... or to colour of the skin :biggrin:....
and we did had some baby boom after Summer Olympic Games , in Moscow in 1980)))))After that very often we can see(especially in Moscow) Russian kids with black skin :biggrin:
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Anjutka,
On the surface I would agree with you, but the same could be true where I used to live in Alabama (a state that has been known to have strong racist attitudes in the past). People were always very friendly when they met you on the street, but their true feelings were sometimes much different. Also, I will admit that my experience comes from a small sample of people over the last few years, all of which would have no problem talking to a person of color (supporting what you have said), but almost all had few positive things to say about minorities and seemed to be discouraged when they found out that I lived in a city with a large black population. So my views have been influenced by these opinions and they might be totally wrong, so I appreciate you correction.
Now, I'll leave this topic alone after quoting something I heard in the past year from a Russian which might sum things up. They said, "someday people are going to be moving back to Russia as it'll be the last white country left", nothing really harmful meant by it, but it does differentiates people by race and in my pretty open-mind, that's racist.
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They were always calling him the Ethiopian and he would always reply, "but I was born in Russia". So in a way, a black person is still somewhat an oddity in Russia in 2009, especially outside of Moscow.
The enitire European continent is like that, not especially Russia,
i know, i live here!
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People were always very friendly when they met you on the street, but their true feelings were sometimes much different.
thats not about Russia))))))...it can suites very well to Latvian mentality for example))...but not to Russian one :biggrin:
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I consider threads such as this to be race baiting. Blacks love to start such non-threads, hoping that some white dudes will tell him he doesn't have a chance with the white girls, that way he feels justified in labeling everyone a racist.
They get off on this shit.
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I consider threads such as this to be race baiting. Blacks love to start such non-threads, hoping that some white dudes will tell him he doesn't have a chance with the white girls, that way he feels justified in labeling everyone a racist.
They get off on this shit.
jb....i think its normal when for example fat person ask is it ok to find slim women in russia?)))for example)))...and i dont care why he/she asking that.....but i do accept that its important question for them.......for me its no diffirence compare those 2 question :biggrin: people are different... :popcorn:
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Hi Anjutka, isnt Latvia a member of the European union? cant keep track who is in and who is not (yet) in. things move fast.
Anyway, let me explain the term "race baiting". It is actually used by black people to enforce a certain behavour (usually political correct dribbel).
A good example would be "Operah Winfrey" (black women) accusing "Tiger woods" (also colored, and a very famous successfull golfer) of being not "sensitive" enough to he background.
So it is race baiting is a black on black thing primarily so jb has it backwards on this one.
By the way this thread was forked from the "Obama presidential" thread and was not started by "a black guy" jb, if you are looking to blame a race for this thread why not look in the mirror.
By the way i was first to claim this is a non issue, what people do in the privacy of their own bedroom and with who is nobodies bizz, so why even care?
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jb has nothing backwards here.
Race baiting is a black guy saying to a white father, "it is racist to not want your white daughter to date a black guy". Kinda like trying to prove a negative. A white man that might like for his grandchildren to look a little like him is certainly a racist view.
Of course,,, this is your back door method of saying I am a racist.
Good luck with that.
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Leo,
You are a black man.
Go to Africa and find a woman who fits your needs and wants,,, to say you can only be happy with a white woman,,, is quite racist, in itself. By doing this, it says you are unhappy with, and feel inferior with, your own race.
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Just in case you are wondering,,, I'm pretty much an equal opportunity racist. I don't like anybody very much.
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Leo,
You are a black man.
Go to Africa and find a woman who fits your needs and wants,,, to say you can only be happy with a white woman,,, is quite racist, in itself. By doing this, it says you are unhappy with, and feel inferior with, your own race.
Temper temper, its "the one drop" theory again,
your saying i must hate the white race of my father or the black race of my mother? Or are people like me just messing up your simple "black"="white" viewpoint of the world by merely existing? We had a guy in europe while back in the 30's and 40's who just removed people who messed up his equations.
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your saying i must hate the white race of my father or the black race of my mother?
None of the above. I'm saying you have to/should identify yourself, by race, by color, by intellectuality, and then perhaps pick a suitable mate,,, not by skin color alone.
But to come onto this forum and discuss finding a girl on the basis of racism, as you did, is pretty thin.
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By the way, ON TOPIC remark
Since i am a "black" guy and this is a thread about "black" guys lets do an real world update,..my world.
1. Meeting a lady on 1st aug , she is from Kehrson, now all the girls i have ever met were into me, no problem if your half way looking and in shape compared to the chubby middleaged men i see populating the plane to Odessa or Kiev international.
Why not spend a fraction of airfair on a some dumbbells and get into shape...
2. She choose my profile, and thats how it should be, its the women who chooses the man.
3. Exchanged some more pictures,..., talking on the phone, every other day, not even for a month now, this could be the one.
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Hi Anjutka, isnt Latvia a member of the European union? cant keep track who is in and who is not (yet) in. things move fast.
hi ..yes, from may 2004 :popcorn:
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I'm saying you have to/should identify yourself, by race, by color, by intellectuality, and then perhaps pick a suitable mate,,, not by skin color alone.
Sorry, no Jon Crow laws in Europe, keep that in the USA, ok?
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Hi Anjutka, isnt Latvia a member of the European union? cant keep track who is in and who is not (yet) in. things move fast.
hi ..yes, from may 2004 :popcorn:
But dear Anjutka, all EU members can travel and work within the length and breath of the European Union.
So may i ask why ,...., are you looking for a Western man, since you are ,..part of the West already.
Maybe its a dumb question since i dont know the Latvian situation,
Ps, how old are you?
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But to come onto this forum and discuss finding a girl on the basis of racism, as you did,
Never did that , and thats for all to read and check up on.
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Leo, all my infor in some my introduction thread in introduction section,try to find it :) Shortly - i m not looking for western man, i m looking for love :biggrin:
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But to come onto this forum and discuss finding a girl on the basis of racism, as you did, is pretty thin.
"Jb,"
It's part of the newfangled dyslexic mediocre meritocracy that is springing up everywhere.
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Leo, all my infor in some my introduction thread,try to find it :) Shortly - i m not looking for western man, i m looking for love :biggrin:
Mmmm, ok , fair enough, and be honest WHERE (yes capital letters) are you looking for love. Is this one of the many places, you frequent?
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;-))))))
well..to be honest -here i dont looking for love , because its forum...which interesting for me from such point of view that i can read mens opinion about everything,and hopefully someday it ll help me in understading the mens :) or may be not :popcorn:
and yes....on the question WHERE,answer is EVERYWHERE ;D
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;-))))))
well..to be honest -here i dont looking for love , because its forum...which interesting for me from such point of view that i can read mens opinion about everything,and hopefully someday it ll help me in understading the mens :) or may be not :popcorn:
and yes....on the question WHERE,answer is EVERYWHERE ;D
I'm from there!!!! :loving:
I don't think black men would have much trouble finding women in the FSU. When I lived in Japan, there were groups of women that only dated black men, groups that only dated white men, groups that dated both, and some that wouldn't date any gaijin.
If you are clean, wear nice clothes, decent looking and have a bit of charm, it's hard not to attract ladies.
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;-))))))
well..to be honest -here i dont looking for love , because its forum...which interesting for me from such point of view that i can read mens opinion about everything,and hopefully someday it ll help me in understading the mens :) or may be not :popcorn:
and yes....on the question WHERE,answer is EVERYWHERE ;D
Jame, stop cutting into my game here, lol.
Anjutka , HA HA
you remind me of the time i read the magazines my little sister read, so i could "understand her" better.
Well you have women and REAL women and you have men and REAL men. Most men are not real men, they are weak and lazy and do what is easy, not was is right!! A real man is that "simple"...
So tell me about mmm "real women"? 8)
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I don't think black men would have much trouble finding women in the FSU.
Many people in this thread wouldnt like to believe it (but sectetly know it), if you have a decent personality , witty, cocky , funny, down to earth...its dead easy.
And so it should be.
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So tell me about mmm "real women"? 8)
Send her a PM or do it on her topic Leo. You are off topic as usual.
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[off topic removed] Leo - read this (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=7688.0). Do not troll here please.
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:offtopic: :D :D :D :D I dont understand such unions :biggrin:
Well it seems to be quite the rage here now - all the single ladies want to be Obama mamas!
The majority of young working class Lily White Moo Hampshire white girls buying into the section 8 wic medicare foodstamps culture (Why not - they would have to earn $50K+ to have similar benefits if working)... Most have a mixed Race child in the stroller now - and their Obama daddy by their side - makes applying for the dole programs go so much easier!
It truly has become an Obama mamma nation :smokin:
I have to give a real response to that. that simply not true. and that stereotype you just provided is simply not the reality for most black people. the whole depending on the goverment assistance thing also isnt true if you really look at the numbers.its nice to know that you just put down a whole race of people.btw im a nice hardworking upper middle class black person. lol
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I will answer the original question.
I have been to FSU multiple times, and am engaged to be married.
For a black/ Asian/ Latino man, it is possible, not easy but possible. He has to work very hard, send his photo up front. The response may be 5% of the letters he sends, but that is 25 positive answers to 500 letters. Majority would not be interested, but some would be.
I think just because it is difficult, that should never sway a man.
When she comes over here, if they live in a major liberal city, like New York, or San Francisco, no problems.
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When she comes over here, if they live in a major liberal city, like New York, or San Francisco, no problems.
Or Ray Nagin's NO as the case maybe.
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I see posts are disappearing again oh yeah must be a software glitch... :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:
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I see posts are disappearing again oh yeah must be a software glitch... :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:
If they were yours, and they were off topic, they will have been moved to an appropriate topic. Try searching the last posts. :-X
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Russia has more skinheads and white power organizations than any other country in the world.
Black students get told by the police to stay indoors for the days leading up to Hitlers birthday, as groups of skinheads will spend this day (and the days leading up to it) searching the streets for non-whites to attack, and even kill, with knives, base ball bats etc.
No country in the world has such a large number of racially motivated murders as Russia, except maybe South Africa or Zimbwe (but then again, the racially motivated murders in these countries don't seem to count when statistics of "hate crime" is being made, as it never seem to be a hate crime for a black person to kill a white person, only the other way around).
I remember reading a forum about russians in Norway and this Russian guy wrote in broken Norwegian that he couldn't understand the passive Norwegian mentality: "for example, in this country a pakistani or a black man can walk arm in arm with a blond and nothing happens. In Moscow he would be beaten up before taking three steps".
I've never been to Russia myself, but If I had been black I'd stay the hell out of Russia, especially St.Pete, aka the skinhead capitol of the world. Just my two cents.
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I'm surprised you didn't know this as you seemed to have looked into my trip to Volzhky and my relationship with Olesya...our big fight in Moscow was directly related to this issue....she was mesmerized by 50 Cent on TV and began telling me she loves criminals :o
That's enough to pound the "NEXT" button until your knuckles starst bleeding in my book!! :o
Criminals are, basically, people who must be locked up as they do so much more damage than good to society that they can't be allowed to get in contact with decent people. There are, by all means, the bottle of the f-ing barrel! I can never, ever, understand this idea of women being turned on by criminals. Bad boys, OK, but criminals? *shakes head in disbelief*
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Russia has more skinheads and white power organizations than any other country in the world.
..............................
I've never been to Russia myself, but If I had been black I'd stay the hell out of Russia, especially St.Pete, aka the skinhead capitol of the world. Just my two cents.
.......provide first any statistic for Russia and others countrys as well first 8)
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He does not need to go to Russia or Ukraine.
He can go to Central Asia, there are plenty of Slavic women in Kyrgystan, Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan. Very friendly territory for non whites.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_nationalism_in_Russia
http://sova-center.ru/194F418/
http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/8/0/3/3/p180332_index.html
Russia: Hate-Crime Deaths Mounting, As Nationalists Close Ranks
June 11, 2008
By Claire Bigg
(I question the sense of running around Moscow with "dark skin" chasing "their" women - a modern form of Russian Roulette - just a matter of time till your luck runs out - interesting how the egos of those with Dark skin persist in DENIAL - Even AndrewFI a white UKer took a mugging and severe beating with a stay in the hospital in Tallin Estonia - Russia I am sure is far more nationalistic and who can blame them???).
Kamola, a 36-year-old ethnic-Uzbek woman living in Moscow, was stepping out of a metro carriage on her way to work last month when a blow sent her tumbling to the station's marble floor.
The punch came without warning, dealt by a young man wearing brass knuckles. A second assailant then picked up the woman's limp body while his friend struck her repeatedly in the face and stomach.
"Two men came up from behind and hit me," she recalls. "First they hit my right eye and then broke my nose and cheekbone. I fainted immediately. I hadn't done anything wrong, they attacked me because I was veiled."
Kamola doesn't remember being rushed to a nearby hospital. She regained consciousness four days later with injuries so severe that she now faces major brain surgery and facial reconstruction work.
But the mother of two considers herself lucky to be alive. Like most foreigners and ethnic minorities in Russia, she is painfully aware that dozens of people die every year in racially motivated assaults.
According to Sova, a Moscow-based organization that monitors such crimes, extremists have already killed 57 people and wounded another 117 this year in Russia. Only six months into the year, hate-crime figures already look set to exceed those of 2007, when a total of 80 people were murdered.
The real number of victims, however, is probably much higher.
"The figure of 57 is much lower than some estimates; gathering solid information has become very difficult," says Galina Kozhevnikova, Sova's deputy director. "We already wrote last year about our serious difficulties in obtaining information, and this year I can't even describe how difficult it has become. Such cases are not reported in the media, and law-enforcement agencies don't give us anything at all."
Climate Of Impunity
The intensity of the assaults is also on the rise, evolving from simple beatings to torture and mutilation.
The cruelty hit a horrifying peak in August 2007, when a video was posted on ultranationalist websites showing a group of masked men killing two dark-skinned captives execution-style.
Russia's Interior Ministry and secret services at first dismissed the grisly footage -- in which one of the bound men is beheaded, and the other shot in the head -- as a fake.
Some hate-crime experts had also cast doubt on the video's authenticity until a man in Daghestan recognized the beheading victim as his brother. The Russian Prosecutor-General's Office on June 5 publicly confirmed the video was genuine.
Racism was an unspoken fact of life during the Soviet era, even as the USSR publicly celebrated the utopian harmony of its myriad ethnicities and cultures.
Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, however, once-dormant prejudices have been allowed to devolve into active racism -- particularly in Russia, where resurgent national pride and heavy labor migration from neighboring states have proven an explosive combination.
The Kremlin has done little to curb the problem. Critics say the government has even poured fuel on the fire with nationalist measures such as the mass deportation of ethnic Georgians in retaliation for the 2006 arrest of Russian officers in Tbilisi, or the ban on all foreign traders in retail markets -- a move then-President Vladimir Putin said was intended to protect the interests of "native Russians."
Russia's judicial system has been equally reluctant to combat hate crimes. Although the number of prosecutions for racially motivated attacks has increased in recent years, many assailants continue to get away with little more than a slap on the wrist.
At the same time, Russian skinheads and neo-Nazis are seeking to organize their ranks. On June 8, at least four large nationalist groups signed a pact to unite forces in order to better address the problems of "migration and corruption." An estimated 70,000 Russians are believed to be members of nationalist organizations.
It is undeniable that hate crimes are on the rise. The question is why. Some experts say neo-Nazis and other assailants are reacting to a rare police crackdown earlier this year. Others believe that increasing numbers of young Russians, frustrated by poor educational and professional opportunities, are taking their anger out on migrant workers.
Shift Of Target
Desire Deffo came from Cameroon to St. Petersburg almost two decades ago to study hydrology. Africans, who once flowed into the country to pursue higher education studies, were a primary target of hate crimes in St. Petersburg. But Deffo says assaults against Africans have dropped sharply over the past year -- and that Central Asian migrants now appear to be the bearing the brunt of the city's racist attacks.
"The growing number of arriving Tajiks and Uzbeks work on building sites, in markets, and young Russians are not pleased about that," he says. "The majority [of Africans] are students, and the attitude toward us has improved. If before dark skin was the main factor, today the migrants' occupation also plays a role."
Groups like Sova say Central Asians, the vast majority of whom come to Russia in search of work, have replaced dark-skinned foreigners and people from the North Caucasus as the main victims of racist attacks. Of the 57 people killed this year, 31 are from Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and Kyrgyzstan.
Veteran rights activist Svetlana Gannushkina says deep-running ties between government authorities and the construction industry, which depends on cheap Central Asian labor, may help explain the official laxness in combating racist violence.
"Now the main victims are people from Central Asia. Authorities allow this to happen because Central Asians are currently the chief resource for slave labor," she says. "Their vulnerability is profitable to those who exploit them, it's profitable to have workers who are frightened and broken-spirited. Authorities profit from this because they are closely connected to these structures."
Rampant discrimination, combined with the threat of attacks, have contributed to an atmosphere of fear that puts immigrants under severe emotional and psychological stress.
Gavkhar Dzhuraeva, who heads a Moscow-based support group for migrants, says this anxiety is pushing many to suicide. Other migrants, bent on revenge, have begun to resort to vigilante justice.
Dzhuraeva, who herself is an ethnic Tajik, has lived in Moscow for the past 15 years. She speaks flawless Russian and holds a Russian passport. But she feels just as victimized as newcomers.
"To feel comfortable," she sighs, "I'd have to stop looking at myself in the mirror."
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well....all figures have a value when possible to compare :popcorn:
soooo...statistic of others country as well, pls))) :popcorn:
ps cufflinks, dont go deep in that)))you always write too much))))could read only begining and the end of yours posts :)
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Anjutka.....I like your attention to detail :ROFL:
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well....all figures have a value when possible to compare :popcorn:
soooo...statistic of others country as well, pls))) :popcorn:
ps cufflinks, dont go deep in that)))you always write too much))))could read only begining and the end of yours posts :)
LOL - perhaps you wish to KNOW too little... 8)
For the record this trend among Russian MEN will be what keeps the invaders from turning Russia into an extension of Eurabia!
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He does not need to go to Russia or Ukraine.
He can go to Central Asia, there are plenty of Slavic women in Kyrgystan, Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan. Very friendly territory for non whites.
Oh my God, who is "he" LOL, is that ...."me", lol
What i do is my bizz[deleted - Brass]
Oh by the way flying to Ukriane (Nikolayev) on 1 aug, i think she is the one. And ....i dont believe it, she lookes like a model,...then again, i am not bad lookin either!!
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He has to work very hard, send his photo up front.
Ok, i am a bit confused here,
what do whites do? they dont send their photos upfront?
Please elaborate
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Three posts removed, one modified. - Trolling.
Brass
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He has to work very hard, send his photo up front.
Ok, i am a bit confused here,
what do whites do? they dont send their photos upfront?
Please elaborate
I like to start off showing them that there is a little competition for my heart...and my skills with paint.
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Russia has more skinheads and white power organizations than any other country in the world.
..............................
I've never been to Russia myself, but If I had been black I'd stay the hell out of Russia, especially St.Pete, aka the skinhead capitol of the world. Just my two cents.
.......provide first any statistic for Russia and others countrys as well first 8)
I did some comparative studies while writing my master thesis on anti-racism laws and came across these statistics then, but haven't got the thesis here.
Wikipedia gives some numbers, though:
"The number of Russian neo-Nazis is estimated at 50,000 to 70,000, "half of the world's total."[5][4]. The director of the Human Rights Bureau, Alexander Brod, stated that surveys show xenophobia and other racist expressions affect 50 percent of Russians.[6]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Russia_during_the_2000s
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I will answer the original question.
I have been to FSU multiple times, and am engaged to be married.
For a black/ Asian/ Latino man, it is possible, not easy but possible. He has to work very hard, send his photo up front. The response may be 5% of the letters he sends, but that is 25 positive answers to 500 letters. Majority would not be interested, but some would be.
I think just because it is difficult, that should never sway a man.
When she comes over here, if they live in a major liberal city, like New York, or San Francisco, no problems.
Regarding "Latin men" from the Western Hemisphere, I know it's difficult for some to understand (mainly to US and Canada folks) because they have the negative stereotype of the media of illegal immigrants going to the US who are from Amerindian descent thus non white. BUT it is important to note the ones who look for FSU or Eastern European women (or which are already married to such type of women) belong to the middle or upper classes (they have the money to travel to the FSU or Eastern Europe in a regular basis) thus they are going to be white Latin men or predominantly white in the majority of the cases (there can be exceptions of course) so they are NOT at disadvantage in comparison with the Anglos in a racial aspect. They might be in disadvantage in other factors (social or economic) but not in a racial one. I know is hard to understand the racial mess in Latin America but let's say the more up you are in the socioeconomic ladder the whiter you are, that's why the illegal ones in the US are from Amerindian ancestry and are non white. It's a was an unfair and racist system inherited from Spain and Portugal and unfortunately it is still applied within the borders of Latin America (not only in Mexico).
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I found an excellent article wrote by a US pundit which explains what's going on in Mexico's racial and socioeconomic system, it's quite long but I will put only the part which is of interest to explain my point:
Part 3: US Imported Caste System
After almost twenty generations of intermarriage between whites and Indians, Mexico has ended up with an almost wholly white elite, a vast mixed race (mestizo) working class, and at least 10 million extremely impoverished pure Indians who have never assimilated into Hispanic culture. And the ruling class is becoming ever whiter. How did this happen? And what does it portend for America's dream of colorblind equality?
The first column in this series described the corruption of Mexico's white rulers. The second outlined race in Mexico. This will explain the mechanism through which Latin America's seemingly anti-racist freedom to marry across color lines produces such racially hierarchical societies - and what this implies for the U.S.
In Mexico, white conquistadors interbred with Indian women to produce mestizos. Let's assume that in 1519 the Spaniards and the Mexican Indians were equal in IQ and other significantly heritable traits that aid economic success. I'll follow Jared Diamond (Guns, Germs & Steel: The Fates of Human Societies) in stipulating that the conquistadors won solely because by luck they had the guns, germs, and steel on their side, and that the only reason they had superior technology was because Spain was less isolated than Mexico.
Now, imagine a conquistador and his Indian woman have two sons in the 1520s. These two mestizo brothers grow up and go out in the world to seek their fortunes. One is smarter, and he strikes it rich. The other wasn't so lucky in the genetic lottery, and he becomes poor. The rich son has a wide variety of potential wives to choose from. Like most men, and like almost all Mexican men, he is more attracted to blonde women, and thus marries one. (If you aren't familiar with the depths of Mexico's blonde obsession, try watching Spanish-language TV shows. Almost all the women on Mexican TV look like Finns.) His impoverished brother, in contrast, cannot attract a blonde wife. So he marries an Indian girl.
Then, the brothers have children. On average, the smarter, richer brother's kids, who are 3/4 white, are smarter than their underprivileged 1/4 white cousins. They're smarter not because they are whiter, but because their father had more smartness genes than their uncle. This trend continues: in both families, the smartest, most energetic, and most ruthless sons marry the blondest wives, while the blondest daughters marry the husbands with the most Right Stuff. Repeat for another dozen and a half generations. By 2000, this pattern could lead to the most European-looking people being the most naturally formidable, even if they weren't when they arrived in 1519.
Now, in Mexico every century or so, there is a massive upheaval like the Revolution of 1910. The white monopoly is fractured. Up through the cracks come the most talented mestizos and Indians. They start dynasties that persist to this day … but their grandsons and great-grandsons are notably whiter than they were, since the men of the family have been exploiting their social ascendancy to marry white women. (Of course, many rich Mexican men father second families with their lower-ranking mistresses. But these kids seldom get the breaks in life that the legitimate children do.)
Whites have also dominated even Leftist guerilla movements. For example, Subcommandante Marcos, who led the Chiapas guerilla uprising in 1994, is a white college professor from Mexico City. The reason he calls himself a Subcommandante instead of a Commandante is because he supposedly answers to the real Commandantes, who are all Mayan Indians. In fact, Marcos was not originally the spokesman for the rebels—a Mayan named Commandante Felipe made the initial statements to the press on January 1, 1994. But he proved insufficiently charismatic and articulate in Spanish, so Marcos elbowed him aside a few hours later. But of course, Marcos is today the real Supercommandante and the Indians do what he says.
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They might be in disadvantage in other factors (social or economic) but not in a racial one.
Believe me Link, nobody is at a disatvantage in the FSU because of race, I can fly to the FSU whenever i please. Russians dont have that racial baggage that Americans seem to have, (Europe to a lesser extent but not much lesser). The women pretty much dont care. They find mixed babies quite beautyfull though!!!
The cast systems stuff is a bit off-topic, this is about men of color dating FSU women.
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Guys, i am flying to the Ukraine to meet my "Elena".
This topic is actually about people like me dating FSU women, and believe me i would LOVE to post her picture here so yall can get an idea what kind of women i attract...Not only beauty but also strong character.
If 1 august works i out i will certainly, post pictures of her, "it" is going to happen real quick though , online we are totally into each other...
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There's a Brazilian phrase that sums it all:
You must have a white woman for marriage, a black woman as a maid and a mulatto woman (mixture of black and white but still predominantly black) for sex.
In the case of Mexico just change "black woman" for "Indigenous woman"
Even though some of the Spanish and Portuguese Conquistadors married white women in order to have a higher socioeconomic status they had mulatto women as lovers as those type of women were the ones they preferred for sex. Nature was very generous with the bodies of mulatto women (if you get my point) that's why Spaniards and later Mexican Spaniards or Brazilian Portuguese preferred them as lovers but they had to marry white women (preferently natural blondes) so they could achieve an important socioeconomic status which distinguished from Indians or Mestizos who were predominantly Indigenous. In modern times this behavior is still present throughout Latin America.
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I will answer the original question.
I have been to FSU multiple times, and am engaged to be married.
For a black/ Asian/ Latino man, it is possible, not easy but possible. He has to work very hard, send his photo up front. The response may be 5% of the letters he sends, but that is 25 positive answers to 500 letters. Majority would not be interested, but some would be.
I think just because it is difficult, that should never sway a man.
When she comes over here, if they live in a major liberal city, like New York, or San Francisco, no problems.
Regarding "Latin men" from the Western Hemisphere, I know it's difficult for some to understand (mainly to US and Canada folks) because they have the negative stereotype of the media of illegal immigrants going to the US who are from Amerindian descent thus non white. BUT it is important to note the ones who look for FSU or Eastern European women (or which are already married to such type of women) belong to the middle or upper classes (they have the money to travel to the FSU or Eastern Europe in a regular basis) thus they are going to be white Latin men or predominantly white in the majority of the cases (there can be exceptions of course) so they are NOT at disadvantage in comparison with the Anglos in a racial aspect. They might be in disadvantage in other factors (social or economic) but not in a racial one. I know is hard to understand the racial mess in Latin America but let's say the more up you are in the socioeconomic ladder the whiter you are, that's why the illegal ones in the US are from Amerindian ancestry and are non white. It's a was an unfair and racist system inherited from Spain and Portugal and unfortunately it is still applied within the borders of Latin America (not only in Mexico).
Link
Mixed marriages are not as uncommon as you may think in this country. Some of our politicans are even married to others of a different colour. So Canada has a much open attitude to this then other places. Our laws also forbid discrimination on the basis of race, which include mixed marriages. I think nothing of it when I see a couple who is of different colors together here. Canada is considered a multicultural country, and where I would not say all would accept such a union here, the majority have no problem with it from what I can see. We have no negative thoughts on the normal people of another country, only those who are not law abiding. Where Latin America may have a caste system, we do not. We have all nationalties here, so we judge the person, not from where they came. :nod:
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I will answer the original question.
I have been to FSU multiple times, and am engaged to be married.
For a black/ Asian/ Latino man, it is possible, not easy but possible. He has to work very hard, send his photo up front. The response may be 5% of the letters he sends, but that is 25 positive answers to 500 letters. Majority would not be interested, but some would be.
I think just because it is difficult, that should never sway a man.
When she comes over here, if they live in a major liberal city, like New York, or San Francisco, no problems.
Regarding "Latin men" from the Western Hemisphere, I know it's difficult for some to understand (mainly to US and Canada folks) because they have the negative stereotype of the media of illegal immigrants going to the US who are from Amerindian descent thus non white. BUT it is important to note the ones who look for FSU or Eastern European women (or which are already married to such type of women) belong to the middle or upper classes (they have the money to travel to the FSU or Eastern Europe in a regular basis) thus they are going to be white Latin men or predominantly white in the majority of the cases (there can be exceptions of course) so they are NOT at disadvantage in comparison with the Anglos in a racial aspect. They might be in disadvantage in other factors (social or economic) but not in a racial one. I know is hard to understand the racial mess in Latin America but let's say the more up you are in the socioeconomic ladder the whiter you are, that's why the illegal ones in the US are from Amerindian ancestry and are non white. It's a was an unfair and racist system inherited from Spain and Portugal and unfortunately it is still applied within the borders of Latin America (not only in Mexico).
Link
Mixed marriages are not as uncommon as you may think in this country. Some of our politicans are even married to others of a different colour. So Canada has a much open attitude to this then other places. Our laws also forbid discrimination on the basis of race, which include mixed marriages. I think nothing of it when I see a couple who is of different colors together here. Canada is considered a multicultural country, and where I would not say all would accept such a union here, the majority have no problem with it from what I can see. We have no negative thoughts on the normal people of another country, only those who are not law abiding. Where Latin America may have a caste system, we do not. We have all nationalties here, so we judge the person, not from where they came. :nod:
Fireeater, I know, I used to live in Canada (Montreal) :) before moving to Monterrey. So being fluent in both French and English besides the fact once there I assimilated quite well you can consider me a former French Canadian somehow. :) lol
When I was in Quebec I read about of case a black man sued the owner of a bar or restaurant because he did not allowed the black guy to enter. The black man recorded everything in a tape (or CD) and presented it as a prove so the owner of the bar had to pay a large amount of money to this black guy for the racist behavior and discrimination he displayed against the black man. I am familiar with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms as well with some local "charms" of Quebec such as the Loi 101 or the Margarine color and many others aspects. :)
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Believe me Link, nobody is at a disadvantage in the FSU because of race, I can fly to the FSU whenever i please. Russians don't have that racial baggage that Americans seem to have,
Leo, based on my experience, I'd say your statements may have some validity when it comes to dating. Many younger Russian or Ukrainian girls consider dating a man of color a type of social experiment, a way to rebel against local mores and norms and to gain attention and respect amongst her peers. I see it in the club scene in Moscow quite often.
But there is a BIG difference between being able to date a woman from the FSU for a week or two and making the permanent commitment of marriage. In the later, men of color have a very difficult task.
And your statement that Russians are less racially prejudice than Americans is just plain outright wrong.
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Guys, i am flying to the Ukraine to meet my "Elena".
And I hope she scams your pants off.
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I just came back from a 5 day trip in Ukraine. I saw many black men but none under the age of 50 with RW. But the number of black men is increasing. This was Kharkov area and the 55 year old black man I met was with a girl from a tour. He is taking her to turkey. Very nice guy and in great shape. Plus he was with a mid 40 year old RW.
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Believe me Link, nobody is at a disadvantage in the FSU because of race, I can fly to the FSU whenever i please. Russians don't have that racial baggage that Americans seem to have,
Leo, based on my experience, I'd say your statements may have some validity when it comes to dating. Many younger Russian or Ukrainian girls consider dating a man of color a type of social experiment, a way to rebel against local mores and norms and to gain attention and respect amongst her peers. I see it in the club scene in Moscow quite often.
But there is a BIG difference between being able to date a woman from the FSU for a week or two and making the permanent commitment of marriage. In the later, men of color have a very difficult task.
And your statement that Russians are less racially prejudice than Americans is just plain outright wrong.
Shakespear is correct. And if the woman is not part of the "club scene", she may not even be comfortable with dating.
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Believe me Link, nobody is at a disadvantage in the FSU because of race, I can fly to the FSU whenever i please. Russians don't have that racial baggage that Americans seem to have,
Leo, based on my experience, I'd say your statements may have some validity when it comes to dating. Many younger Russian or Ukrainian girls consider dating a man of color a type of social experiment, a way to rebel against local mores and norms and to gain attention and respect amongst her peers. I see it in the club scene in Moscow quite often.
But there is a BIG difference between being able to date a woman from the FSU for a week or two and making the permanent commitment of marriage. In the later, men of color have a very difficult task.
And your statement that Russians are less racially prejudice than Americans is just plain outright wrong.
You really rufuse to read what i write, but if you want to delude yourself black men are not MARRY material (note the capitals) for FSU women, then thats your free will.
In feb 2009 i refused a proposal by a girl (read again P-R-O-P-O-S-A-L). And what is (quote) "your experience" anyway? Are you black? anyone can parrot the idea that "they date blacks but wouldnt marry them" mantra.
At this moment i am persued by a moscow girl aswell, i dont know how to brake it off yet, its gonna hurt though...cant be helped...thats life.
Elena, she is georgeous, she is 27 and i am 41 (since 22 july). She is the most traditional girl i have ever met.
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And your statement that Russians are less racially prejudice than Americans is just plain outright wrong.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but i was engaged to two American women, one from tennessee and one from Virginia, (both white, german irish heritage).
The first lost a lot of friends because she was engaged to me, eventually it didnt work out, because she couldnt get used to living in Europa, midwesterners just love the rural life to much i guess....
Again talking from experience (twice)
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I just came back from a 5 day trip in Ukraine. I saw many black men but none under the age of 50 with RW. But the number of black men is increasing. This was Kharkov area and the 55 year old black man I met was with a girl from a tour. He is taking her to turkey. Very nice guy and in great shape. Plus he was with a mid 40 year old RW.
Hey Kievstar, check me out on meetup.com in the Brussels area, we have the best social networking and lifestyle thread, co-managed by my American friend (immigrant from Karkov) living in Brussels, we have like 240 plus signups since we went live 2 days ago and climbing...
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Elena, she is georgeous, she is 27 and i am 41 (since 22 july). She is the most traditional girl i have ever met.
congratulations with your birthday ;D be healthy and happy :nod:!and good luck :)
and yes....if woman already start to date with man(what ever race)))....its means if man is correct one- marriage is possible :nod:.....to my understanding women never date with a men, if they are not see him as a husband...i dont talk here about one night stand :)...and i do talk here about fsu/russian mentality..... :biggrin:
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Guys, i am flying to the Ukraine to meet my "Elena".
And I hope she scams your pants off.
I am buying the engagement ring tomorrow, (demn that rock is big). After reading jb's good wishes i will make sure i post a link to flickr of her photos. (I am not kidding she could easily be a model, easily...).
About the myth of 'it being hard to find a RW women for a colored guy to marry', ...,
@anjutka
Thanks, for your good wishes, i hope you find love like will likely find...
Consedering some here have made 10 plus trips to the FSU and are still searching, i am not doing bad , this being my third trip to the Ukraine..
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I see a couple who is of different colors together here. Canada is considered a multicultural country,
The Knee jurk, if i may say so, we have that in Europe a lot, leftist people saying multiracial=muticultural. If you think long and hard what they are actually saying is that if you are a certain biology (race) you have to act and think a certain way (cultural norms and vices). A lil "Nurenberg" racethink sneeked in here i guess.
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Leo,
I will say that I do not agree with some of what you write or should I say how you deliver your message at times (something about usng a sledge hammer in a glass house getting attention but distracting people from the true message), but I hope you find happiness with Elena. I look forward to seeing those pictures of both of your together as happy endings are always cool.
Related to easily finding someone to marry in the FSU, I think it's true no matter what your color is as there are still far too many ladies wanting to get out for economic reasons (if my goal was just to get married I could have accomplished that many times over). Anyways, I added my comment to this thread a few days ago, just to say that it's possible (I witnessed it) but I still think attitudes will make it more difficult. I agree with what Tallman said in his post, when he mentioned it's a numbers game. Now finding the right person, especially if you take the time to really get to know a person, will take more time as marriage is not the same as a business transaction (I've read and heard about too many train wrecks with the common denominator being, they did not take the time to get to know the person); sorry as this is a little off topic but it's my advice to you, don't rush it.
Now where I disagree with you is the comment that Russia has a more relaxed attitude towards race than western Europe (yes, I know you live there) or N. America. I think you might have thought otherwise if you ran into the same group of skinheads I did on the Moscow subway last year (my thoughts at that time was "this is going to get real interesting"). Interracial dating almost everywhere is tolerated, and I'll admit that I have crossed the color line a few times, but based on my observations (being one of those 10+ trip people) and accumulated knowledge :reading: I politely disagree with your comments that make the FSU seem like an island of understanding when it comes to race.
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Have a good trip Leo. When it comes to race with this type of relationship, The destination is more important than where you find her. If you live in an area that is accepting, I don't think you will have any more problems than any other couple.
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I think you might have thought otherwise if you ran into the same group of skinheads I did on the Moscow subway last year (my thoughts at that time was "this is going to get real interesting").
A skinhead went on a Rampage in Belgium two years ago shooting colored people at random or white people who were holding hands with their colored boyfriends/girlfriends, i think i know racism or related danger more then you do, but again if you think you know better then me, thats your free will too. For example, Maybe you know more about sexual herrasment perpurtrated towards women because you have seen a youtube movie about it.
Now i am having private Russians lessons by a Russian girl (from St Petersburg) who lives in Belgium, every other day for one hour. We talked today about her city and she asked if I ever visited Moscow or St Petersburg, i...brought up the danger angle, and she says that it is no better or worse then any other major city, well those were her words i am repeating now so i will believe a native over an American who wants to believe he/she is liberal by pointing the finger at "racist" white people. (And i have seen a lot of those liberals believe you me).
I think you might have thought otherwise if you ran into the same group of skinheads I did on the Moscow subway last year (my thoughts at that time was "this is going to get real interesting").
A skinhead went on a Rampage in Belgium two years ago shooting colored people at random or white people who were holding hands with their colored boyfriends/girlfriends, i think i know racism or related danger more then you do, but again if you think you know better then me, thats your free will too. For example, Maybe you know more about sexual herrasment perpurtrated towards women because you have seen a youtube movie about it.
Now i am having private Russians lessons by a Russian girl (from St Petersburg) who lives in Belgium ( dont tell Elena), every other day for one hour. We talked today about her city and she asked if I ever visited Moscow or St Petersburg, i...brought up the danger angle, and she says that it is no better or worse then any other major city, well those were her words i am repeating now so i will believe a native Russian over an American who wants to believe he/she is liberal by pointing the finger at OTHER "racist" white people. (And i have seen a lot of those kind of liberals believe you me)
Interracial dating almost everywhere is tolerated,
Thats not true, and i know it being a son of a white father and a black mother, but why would anyone care what other people think of how you live your life? They pay your rent?
and I'll admit that I have crossed the color line a few times,
Funny you say you are a "liberal" and at the same time you see "line". a TRUE liberal would say "what line?". Correct?
but based on my observations (being one of those 10+ trip people) and accumulated knowledge I politely disagree with your comments that make the FSU seem like an island of understanding when it comes to race.
Island of understanding? Excuse me, but i never never made that comment or even implied that indirectly. Please quote me.. what i DID say was that Russian women are not more or less racist then their Western female counterparts.
I am not trying to date male skinheads am i?
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Have a good trip Leo. When it comes to race with this type of relationship, The destination is more important than where you find her. If you live in an area that is accepting, I don't think you will have any more problems than any other couple.
Thanks Jamie70068, i see "Elena" as "Elena" and she sees me as "Leo", (goddamn she is beautyfull, freaks me out sometimes). Style, grace, really a high status women,
Oh and about the "safe haven" theory Jamie, i have lived in Nigeria during the Biafran conflict and it wasnt taken kindly that my father was obveously white, but that didnt bother us much as we had armed bodyguards ex-military protecting us. Thats why i have understood that the only way to counter hate is ...guns...love the 2nd.
(ok a lil offtopic, but i was just trying to make apoint about your safe havens) you create those yourself.
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good point :fighting0025: sometimes you gotta drop the hammer on a few
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Please quote me.. what i DID say was that Russian women are not more or less racist then their Western female counterparts.
No, this is what you said
Russians dont have that racial baggage that Americans seem to have.
Just to clarify, having never been to Russia, you came up with this comparison by talking {?} to a couple of girls from Russia? And what is the basis for your vast knowledge of US society? :D
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That is indeed true, but i was talking about the population in general (men and women). Americans have a history of racism... just look at "jb"'s comments on mixed marriages (strange that those remarks are never edited, but hey, its not my forum, so non of my bizz). Russians dont have the same historical "development" although there is a skinhead problem, those views are not carried by a majority of the Russian population.
Just to clarify, having never been to Russia, you came up with this comparison by talking {?} to a couple of girls from Russia? And what is the basis for your vast knowledge of US society?
Was engaged to two American women, and the first from Tennessee lost a lot of friends being engaged to me!
My Russian experience is. (very very short version)
1. Minsk women was a professional dater
2. Odessa girl nr 1 wanted to sleep with me after the first meeting , but i wasnt into her
3. Dated my translator (was only fun, and was upfront about it)
4. Translator introduced me to her cousin and she proposed to me, but i declined
5. A Moscow girl , who is a great traveller (on her own cost) wants to meet me up in Amsterdam, but i have Elena now
6. Elena (woooot!)
Nuff said!
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what i DID say was that Russian women are not more or less racist then their Western female counterparts.
I disagree that this is the case. However you may choose to project EU cozy ideals onto Russia (or is it Ukraine since you haven't been to Russia I recall?), what you are spouting here is simply not the truth.
Because you spoke to a woman from St Petersburg, this does not reflect all of Russia (or the rest of the FSU).
From my experience - as a semi resident of the FSU - a great majority of women would not touch a black guy with a barge pole. Some will "try" one for fun. A few will consider one for marriage. Your pool is that latter few. You only want one (we think) so you will do OK eventually.
Andrewfi has a dark skinned friend who is part resident in Estonia. I have met him; nice chap. Ask him how his pal did with the local women. Shall we say they were hardly falling all over him.
Because you met a woman in Ukraine that claims to want matrimony (after three trips ::) ), this does not qualify you to pontificate about the attitude of women across a sixth of the worlds surface.
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Just to clarify, having never been to Russia, you came up with this comparison by talking {?} to a couple of girls from Russia? And what is the basis for your vast knowledge of US society?
Was engaged to two American women, and the first from Tennessee lost a lot of friends being engaged to me!
And how much time have you spent in the US?
My Russian experience is. (very very short version)
1. Minsk women was a professional dater - Minsk is not in Russia
2. Odessa girl nr 1 wanted to sleep with me after the first meeting , but i wasnt into her
Odessa is not part of Russia either {And Pro Daters are hardly a reliable source for information :D}
3. Dated my translator (was only fun, and was upfront about it)
4. Translator introduced me to her cousin and she proposed to me, but i declined
Two Russian girls that you dated, but never went to their country or met their friends & relatives back home?
5. A Moscow girl , who is a great traveller (on her own cost) wants to meet me up in Amsterdam, but i have Elena now
Whom you have never met? {Fat Yuri? :chuckle:}
6. i am flying to the Ukraine to meet my Elena (woooot!) Ukraine - also not part of Russia. Another girl who you have not met yet... ::)
Nuff said! :D
Surprisingly enough Leo, most girls don't talk about race relations or societal norms on a date, and if they did they may not be entirely candid {My experience anyways}
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It seems "Leo512," fancies himself as the forums new Mistress Cleo. Of course that logic chain leads to penology statistics and that road would be so fitting. We can only hope the posters experience will gain alot more width, depth, and breadth before we read his story in the train wreck room..... Choo...Choo... Good luck on your trip, "Leo512," may you find exactly what you deserve.
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still not clear for me why you guys arguing with Leo?)))))) :popcorn:
1 as he wrote, he not going to marriage with guy, right? :knit:
2 how many girls you know belong to skinheads in Russia(if you started to discuss Russia)))? :popcorn:
3 does anyone count my opinion? :chuckle: as a 3d girl from stp))))))))))))
4 does it possible what Leo wants -yes,it is
5 does guy with some race less popular then others- yes,and he knows that....
nu??what else?as he always remains you -you cant know exactly the situation because you are not same race as he is :popcorn:, so...you can visit Russia 30 times, and still could know nothing about that.... :biggrin:...life :)
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I see a couple who is of different colors together here. Canada is considered a multicultural country,
The Knee jurk, if i may say so, we have that in Europe a lot, leftist people saying multiracial=muticultural. If you think long and hard what they are actually saying is that if you are a certain biology (race) you have to act and think a certain way (cultural norms and vices). A lil "Nurenberg" racethink sneeked in here i guess.
Leo
No leftest thinking here. Only reality. Not all people here like anyone else, and that would include some Ukrainians who do not like Russians, and the opposite . But the majority of people here do not care who your partner is. They only care who you are, and if you have the right attitude towards others. If you have never been here or lived here, you have no idea if what you have said is correct. Europe is not Canada, we are our own country with our own beliefs and structure. We also differ from the USA, yet we also have similar things as well with them. Cultures, religions flourish here. No one has to becomes the same, or act or think, the same way. Come on, we have all nationalities here, you do not think we have lot of different mixes. We actually enjoy our diversity here, where else can you experience another culture without ever leaving your home. :)
Caribana hits the streets and stages of Toronto this summer for its 42nd year, featuring events that celebrate the music, cuisine and arts of the Caribbean region. How many countries do you know have such an event, and it will attract thousands of all races to it. It goes on for two weeks. The parade at the end of it is considered one of the best.
And who are the people who are the most featured in it.
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still not clear for me why you guys arguing with Leo?)))))) :popcorn:
With the utmost of respect Anjutka, I am not "arguing" with Leo, ;D I am pointing out that it is laughable for him to be pontificating on Russian & American attitudes to race, when he has never been to Russia, and his experience in the US is dating a couple of American women. :duh:
3 does anyone count my opinion? :chuckle: as a 3d girl from stp))))))))))))
I would be very interested to hear your opinion. :) Do you agree with his statement as the opinion of most Russian women?
Believe me, nobody is at a disatvantage in the FSU because of race. The women pretty much dont care. <about race>
They find mixed babies quite beautyfull though!!!
5 does guy with some race less popular then others- yes,and he knows that....
Actually no, he does not, just the opposite. He has stated that race makes no difference to a Russian woman.
Believe me Link, nobody is at a disatvantage in the FSU because of race. The women pretty much dont care.
Almost every Russian girl that I have spoken to that has expressed an opinion on inter-racial unions has a negative opinion of them.
:D :D :D :D I dont understand such unions
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Believe me, nobody is at a disatvantage in the FSU because of race. The women pretty much dont care. <about race>
They find mixed babies quite beautyfull though!!
I missed that! Who is teaching him this crap? :ROFL:
Clearly the previous ten pages he overlooked.
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Voyager, when you ll teach me how to quote more then once i ll do it also,but at the moment without quotes )))))) ;D
so, he says "Believe me, nobody is at a disatvantage in the FSU because of race. The women pretty much dont care. <about race> " - and with this i agree :) in big sense :biggrin: :P
when i say -"5 does guy with some race less popular then others- yes,and he knows that...." its not goes opposite statement above :P
as you know, we dont have sooo much people with black skin or with narrow eyes (japans for example ))))),etc etc etc so.....of course for those ll be more difficult to find soulmate, then to local guy.....its in my theory ::)...but may be they even can be more lucky and meet their soulmate much more quickly then some among us :biggrin:...... ::)....life :reading: ...
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Believe me, nobody is at a disatvantage in the FSU because of race. The women pretty much dont care. <about race>
They find mixed babies quite beautyfull though!!
I missed that! Who is teaching him this crap? :ROFL:
Clearly the previous ten pages he overlooked.
Manny?))) soul of Russian women is still secret for you, i guess ;D :popcorn:
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Believe me, nobody is at a disatvantage in the FSU because of race. The women pretty much dont care. <about race>
They find mixed babies quite beautyfull though!!
I missed that! Who is teaching him this crap? :ROFL:
Clearly the previous ten pages he overlooked.
AMEN TO THAT - Lets face it - Leo's only purpose here is to be like the little boy who takes a big stick and shoves it into a hornets nest and rattles it around really hard to piss them all off then run away and watch and laugh as all of his buddies get stung - No sense arguing with a man who has convinced himself that all FSU men have the same PC diversity brainwashed mindset as EU and NA Men have been indoctrinated with and that FSUW really do not worry about what FSUM think even though the men are firmly in control in the FSU countries.
Just look at the tapes of Chairman Putin of Russia Inc., lecturing the "newbie" G8 member president Obama - the contempt was evident to anyone with eyes to see and the US Media glossed right over it. Putin will be in power long after Obama is gone and the odds are higher that a man of color will only be a residency mule for a FSUW desperate to better her economic situation - but some like to go against the odds and tell everyone else see I told you so - has no effect on the odds just that they are the exception rather than the Rule.
Who knows if he brings her back to Belgium they might live a long and happy life - or they may both just decide to cheat on each other for the next better deal - life is funny that way in a 50% 50% sort of way.
If he stays with her in the FSU eventually the odds would catch up to him.
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I wish the "ignore" feature worked on this board.
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still not clear for me why you guys arguing with Leo?)))))) :popcorn:
I totally agree
I don't read his posts, I simply go on to the next one.
Reading his posts is similar to hitting myself in the head with a hammer.
It feels so good when I stop.
Udachi!
Bill
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I am not trying to date male skinheads am i?
Now that would make for an awsome reality show!
"One negro, 20 Russian skinheads, who will walk away with the grand prize in the next season of the interracial, skinhead bachelor? Only on NBC!"
Sorry, couldn't help it. It would be an awsome show, though. ::)
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although there is a skinhead problem, those views are not carried by a majority of the Russian population.
I read a news article saying that over 50% of Russians support the idea of "Russia for Russians" and about 33% said that they sympatized with the skinhead movement.
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.
I am not trying to date male skinheads am i?
Now that would make for an awsome reality show!
"One negro, 20 Russian skinheads, who will walk away with the grand prize in the next season of the interracial, skinhead bachelor? Only on NBC!"
Sorry, couldn't help it. It would be an awsome show, though. ::)
Its not about numbers, its about who is better armed :party0031:
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although there is a skinhead problem, those views are not carried by a majority of the Russian population.
I read a news article saying that over 50% of Russians support the idea of "Russia for Russians" and about 33% said that they sympatized with the skinhead movement.
33% is a majority?
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No, but 83% is. Read it again. tiphat
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Andrewfi has a dark skinned friend who is part resident in Estonia. I have met him; nice chap. Ask him how his pal did with the local women. Shall we say they were hardly falling all over him.
You cant blame your bad looks on race, doesnt work that way!
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No, but 83% is. Read it again. tiphat
Where does it say that to two samples dont overlap?
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I see a couple who is of different colors together here. Canada is considered a multicultural country,
The Knee jurk, if i may say so, we have that in Europe a lot, leftist people saying multiracial=muticultural. If you think long and hard what they are actually saying is that if you are a certain biology (race) you have to act and think a certain way (cultural norms and vices). A lil "Nurenberg" racethink sneeked in here i guess.
Leo
No leftest thinking here. Only reality. Not all people here like anyone else, and that would include some Ukrainians who do not like Russians, and the opposite . But the majority of people here do not care who your partner is. They only care who you are, and if you have the right attitude towards others. If you have never been here or lived here, you have no idea if what you have said is correct. Europe is not Canada, we are our own country with our own beliefs and structure. We also differ from the USA, yet we also have similar things as well with them. Cultures, religions flourish here. No one has to becomes the same, or act or think, the same way. Come on, we have all nationalities here, you do not think we have lot of different mixes. We actually enjoy our diversity here, where else can you experience another culture without ever leaving your home. :)
Caribana hits the streets and stages of Toronto this summer for its 42nd year, featuring events that celebrate the music, cuisine and arts of the Caribbean region. How many countries do you know have such an event, and it will attract thousands of all races to it. It goes on for two weeks. The parade at the end of it is considered one of the best.
And who are the people who are the most featured in it.
I am not talking about canada, so strange you bring that up, i was talking about the guy who travelled 10+ times to the FSU and his personal views. I dont know if he is Candadian , but i wasnt making a broad stroke comment about Canadians either directly or implied, so a lil strange argumentation!
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Two Russian girls that you dated, but never went to their country or met their friends & relatives back home?
huh? i met them personally on my second trip to the Ukraine.
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still not clear for me why you guys arguing with Leo?)))))) :popcorn:
1 as he wrote, he not going to marriage with guy, right? :knit:
2 how many girls you know belong to skinheads in Russia(if you started to discuss Russia)))? :popcorn:
3 does anyone count my opinion? :chuckle: as a 3d girl from stp))))))))))))
4 does it possible what Leo wants -yes,it is
5 does guy with some race less popular then others- yes,and he knows that....
nu??what else?as he always remains you -you cant know exactly the situation because you are not same race as he is :popcorn:, so...you can visit Russia 30 times, and still could know nothing about that.... :biggrin:...life :)
Anjutka, since you are original of St Petersburg (your profile), whats up with that city since every white males on this board all have become a hate crime expert on this situation. I am really interested to hear from a native Russian.
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Voyager, when you ll teach me how to quote more then once i ll do it also,but at the moment without quotes )))))) ;D
so, he says "Believe me, nobody is at a disatvantage in the FSU because of race. The women pretty much dont care. <about race> " - and with this i agree :) in big sense :biggrin: :P
when i say -"5 does guy with some race less popular then others- yes,and he knows that...." its not goes opposite statement above :P
as you know, we dont have sooo much people with black skin or with narrow eyes (japans for example ))))),etc etc etc so.....of course for those ll be more difficult to find soulmate, then to local guy.....its in my theory ::)...but may be they even can be more lucky and meet their soulmate much more quickly then some among us :biggrin:...... ::)....life :reading: ...
You are a smart and wise women Anjutka , for this reason it will be hard for you to find a man who will be compatible with you, i wish you very much luck in that endevour.
PS, whe have some nice Belgiums here who would to know you!
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although there is a skinhead problem, those views are not carried by a majority of the Russian population.
I read a news article saying that over 50% of Russians support the idea of "Russia for Russians" and about 33% said that they sympatized with the skinhead movement.
again...Andreas, could be good if you ll post link here as well, where you read this infor :)....
could explain little bit why people could answer this way:
-may be they have relative in Baltics or Ukraine, or in some others FSU countries ,where goes politic against russian, and they want pay back to those who easy can come to Russia and live and work and etc.etc etc
-may be they just patriot of their country :)
-personally,when last summer I visited my city and find out that almost in each marshrutka(some kind of small bus) driver from Tajikistan or Uzbekistan, who even dont speak in russian, and cant tell me which stops has ion the way, etc etc -i was really in shock....to be honest i was even afraid to be in this marshrutka because was not sure does he a good driver ::)...But that can be answers from moscow and saint petersburg.i think mostly ...now, when we have crises, most of this people go to criminal areas, ...and they dont go back to their countries......but i m sure some day my country will have more better laws concerning this question....
-and yes, i will answer same ....russia for russians))))....BUT it does not mean that i m nationalist,or against some race..... :biggrin: and any way it will never happends :) the world lose "boardes" very quickly.)))) :biggrin:
Leo, thx))...about Saint Petersburg especially i cant answer....to my understanding its the same as in each city,but of course we north"capital" and its probably normal rate for this size of city ....
I would agree that to live for example in Latvia much more save,then in Russia)))))life :biggrin:
And yes.....smart is my problem on dating scene :biggrin:
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.
I am not trying to date male skinheads am i?
Now that would make for an awsome reality show!
"One negro, 20 Russian skinheads, who will walk away with the grand prize in the next season of the interracial, skinhead bachelor? Only on NBC!"
Sorry, couldn't help it. It would be an awsome show, though. ::)
Its not about numbers, its about who is better armed :party0031:
Its a dating show , and you are going to win the heart of one lucky skinhead, dude! There are no weapons involved in this one. :laugh:
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although there is a skinhead problem, those views are not carried by a majority of the Russian population.
I read a news article saying that over 50% of Russians support the idea of "Russia for Russians" and about 33% said that they sympatized with the skinhead movement.
33% is a majority?
No, the majority think that "Russia for Russians" is a good idea, and 33% goes even further and support the extremely violent skin head groups.
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Andreas what is your source?
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@anjutka
-may be they just patriot of their country
Yes, Anjutka , countries have borders, they have them for a reason, doesnt mean your a racist if you want to maintain your cultural identity.
Funny how some male whites try to mix that up.
Wow it is going to be hard for you to find a man, (i am already taken, lol). Ok away with the funny stuff, but IF you do, you will be magneticly attracted to him because he is so special and rare. And i know how it feels!!!
Good luck!
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again...Andreas, could be good if you ll post link here as well, where you read this infor :)....
I can't find the exact same article, but here is another one from Time magazine:
As repugnant as that may sound, it is becoming an increasingly popular view in today's Russia. Which is why even if the two suspects arrested are indeed guilty, they might get away with the crime. With 52% Russians supporting the slogan "Russia for Russians," and with many increasingly sympathetic to those who attack immigrants, the courts may well be lenient.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1304096,00.html
I think I read the original article in a Norwegian Student news paper a few years ago.
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Its a dating show , and you are going to win the heart of one lucky skinhead, dude! There are no weapons involved in this one.
But i am not gay... :king:
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again...Andreas, could be good if you ll post link here as well, where you read this infor :)....
I can't find the exact same article, but here is another one from Time magazine:
As repugnant as that may sound, it is becoming an increasingly popular view in today's Russia. Which is why even if the two suspects arrested are indeed guilty, they might get away with the crime. With 52% Russians supporting the slogan "Russia for Russians," and with many increasingly sympathetic to those who attack immigrants, the courts may well be lenient.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1304096,00.html
I think I read the original article in a Norwegian Student news paper a few years ago.
Your quoteing kind of selectivly
Except that most of those who were killed are Uzbeks, Tajiks, Chinese and Vietnamese — the "blacks" or "churki" (wooden stubs), as Russian Nationalists derogatively call non-white foreigners, and as the increasing number of average Russians casually echo them. On Tuesday, law enforcement officials said they identified the bombers as three young ethnic Russian students of Moscow colleges. The suspects believed, Moscow's Prosecutor Yuri Demin told the press, that "There are too many Asians" here.
So its about Asians, where is the black angle?
(The MSM in Europe/America would shout knee-jurk "racism" but it seems more like a inter Russian tribal thing)
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again...Andreas, could be good if you ll post link here as well, where you read this infor :)....
I can't find the exact same article, but here is another one from Time magazine:
As repugnant as that may sound, it is becoming an increasingly popular view in today's Russia. Which is why even if the two suspects arrested are indeed guilty, they might get away with the crime. With 52% Russians supporting the slogan "Russia for Russians," and with many increasingly sympathetic to those who attack immigrants, the courts may well be lenient.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1304096,00.html
I think I read the original article in a Norwegian Student news paper a few years ago.
Probably find that nationalism is everywhere.
Especially as the worlds economy will begin to tighten more...
anyway here is some more reading for you Andreas
http://www.alli.fi/nuorisotutkimus/julkaisut/virtanen/3/2.html
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I hear Norway is rape capital of Europe, (moslim problem). http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/?pagina=245
But the population is ok with that since they keep voting the multiculturalist into goverment. I am understanding your position on the subject of this thread Andreas.
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I hear Norway is rape capital of Europe, (moslim problem). http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/?pagina=245
But the population is ok with that since they keep voting the multiculturalist into goverment. I am understanding your position on the subject of this thread Andreas.
i hear america and europe have more rapes than saudi arabia... real islam capital...but thats not what its about here.... :offtopic:
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Andrewfi has a dark skinned friend who is part resident in Estonia. I have met him; nice chap. Ask him how his pal did with the local women. Shall we say they were hardly falling all over him.
You cant blame your bad looks on race, doesnt work that way!
You are missing the point Leo.
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I hear Norway is rape capital of Europe, (moslim problem). http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/?pagina=245
But the population is ok with that since they keep voting the multiculturalist into goverment. I am understanding your position on the subject of this thread Andreas.
i hear america and europe have more rapes than saudi arabia... real islam capital...but thats not what its about here.... :offtopic:
I am looking at the perpetrators, 90% of them are Muslim immigrants in Europe, last time i looked on the map Norway was not in the United States.
Rape is legalized in SA because you can marry from 6 your old onwards.
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Andrewfi has a dark skinned friend who is part resident in Estonia. I have met him; nice chap. Ask him how his pal did with the local women. Shall we say they were hardly falling all over him.
You cant blame your bad looks on race, doesnt work that way!
You are missing the point Leo.
I dont think so, i hear a lot of wining from colored folk, but if i see how they look or how they act, it kindof makes sense...
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Its a dating show , and you are going to win the heart of one lucky skinhead, dude! There are no weapons involved in this one.
But i am not gay... :king:
Yeah, I know. But it would still make one hell of a reality show, though. Hypotethically. :laugh:
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again...Andreas, could be good if you ll post link here as well, where you read this infor :)....
I can't find the exact same article, but here is another one from Time magazine:
As repugnant as that may sound, it is becoming an increasingly popular view in today's Russia. Which is why even if the two suspects arrested are indeed guilty, they might get away with the crime. With 52% Russians supporting the slogan "Russia for Russians," and with many increasingly sympathetic to those who attack immigrants, the courts may well be lenient.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1304096,00.html
I think I read the original article in a Norwegian Student news paper a few years ago.
Your quoteing kind of selectivly
Except that most of those who were killed are Uzbeks, Tajiks, Chinese and Vietnamese — the "blacks" or "churki" (wooden stubs), as Russian Nationalists derogatively call non-white foreigners, and as the increasing number of average Russians casually echo them. On Tuesday, law enforcement officials said they identified the bombers as three young ethnic Russian students of Moscow colleges. The suspects believed, Moscow's Prosecutor Yuri Demin told the press, that "There are too many Asians" here.
So its about Asians, where is the black angle?
(The MSM in Europe/America would shout knee-jurk "racism" but it seems more like a inter Russian tribal thing)
There have been a lot of attacks on black (African) students also, but the vast majority of non-whites living in Russia seem to be Asians especially from the -stans.
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again...Andreas, could be good if you ll post link here as well, where you read this infor :)....
I can't find the exact same article, but here is another one from Time magazine:
As repugnant as that may sound, it is becoming an increasingly popular view in today's Russia. Which is why even if the two suspects arrested are indeed guilty, they might get away with the crime. With 52% Russians supporting the slogan "Russia for Russians," and with many increasingly sympathetic to those who attack immigrants, the courts may well be lenient.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1304096,00.html
I think I read the original article in a Norwegian Student news paper a few years ago.
Probably find that nationalism is everywhere.
Especially as the worlds economy will begin to tighten more...
anyway here is some more reading for you Andreas
http://www.alli.fi/nuorisotutkimus/julkaisut/virtanen/3/2.html
Interesting link. Thanks!
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I hear Norway is rape capital of Europe, (moslim problem). http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/?pagina=245
But the population is ok with that since they keep voting the multiculturalist into goverment. I am understanding your position on the subject of this thread Andreas.
Yeah, I read somewhere that 60-70% of all reported rapes in Norway were committed by immigrants, which is an absurd over representation.
My position on the subject is that Africa belongs to the black man, and we whites had no rights to colonize their continent. The areas of Africa that were not inhabited were "up for grabs", though, and that includes most (?) of South Africa.
I feel that whites have the same right of ownership to Europe, and that we should focus on helping non-whites in their own regions rather than import them to Europe. Helping them in their own region is much more cost effective, and will cause a lot less conflicts than having them immigrate to Europe.
Good fences create good neighbours.
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I hear Norway is rape capital of Europe, (moslim problem). http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/?pagina=245
But the population is ok with that since they keep voting the multiculturalist into goverment. I am understanding your position on the subject of this thread Andreas.
i hear america and europe have more rapes than saudi arabia... real islam capital...but thats not what its about here.... :offtopic:
I am looking at the perpetrators, 90% of them are Muslim immigrants in Europe, last time i looked on the map Norway was not in the United States.
Rape is legalized in SA because you can marry from 6 your old onwards.
"coloured folk"?
are you in alabama?
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I hear Norway is rape capital of Europe, (moslim problem). http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/?pagina=245
But the population is ok with that since they keep voting the multiculturalist into goverment. I am understanding your position on the subject of this thread Andreas.
Yeah, I read somewhere that 60-70% of all reported rapes in Norway were committed by immigrants, which is an absurd over representation.
My position on the subject is that Africa belongs to the black man, and we whites had no rights to colonize their continent. The areas of Africa that were not inhabited were "up for grabs", though, and that includes most (?) of South Africa.
I feel that whites have the same right of ownership to Europe, and that we should focus on helping non-whites in their own regions rather than import them to Europe. Helping them in their own region is much more cost effective, and will cause a lot less conflicts than having them immigrate to Europe.
Good fences create good neighbours.
Your emotions are easy to read Andreus, so i guessed right,...
Apartheid on a global scale, cool!! Mixed children we kill off , they dont fit in the model of that perfect world.
Ps, why help Africans? I dont get that,
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"coloured folk"?
are you in alabama?
Europeans cant use "jive" talk? ;D
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rather than import them to Europe.
Well your countrymen totally disagree, but there are solutions to black on white crime,..let the suicidal whites seceede in thier own state and they can do whatever they want (its their freedom) without hurtin the rest of the normal folk.
Now that would be a good reality show seeing those utopianist make a run for it.
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I hear Norway is rape capital of Europe, (moslim problem). http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/?pagina=245
But the population is ok with that since they keep voting the multiculturalist into goverment. I am understanding your position on the subject of this thread Andreas.
Yeah, I read somewhere that 60-70% of all reported rapes in Norway were committed by immigrants, which is an absurd over representation.
My position on the subject is that Africa belongs to the black man, and we whites had no rights to colonize their continent. The areas of Africa that were not inhabited were "up for grabs", though, and that includes most (?) of South Africa.
I feel that whites have the same right of ownership to Europe, and that we should focus on helping non-whites in their own regions rather than import them to Europe. Helping them in their own region is much more cost effective, and will cause a lot less conflicts than having them immigrate to Europe.
Good fences create good neighbours.
Your emotions are easy to read Andreus, so i guessed right,...
Apartheid on a global scale, cool!! Mixed children we kill off , they dont fit in the model of that perfect world.
Ps, why help Africans? I dont get that,
Well, apartheid was a regime where blacks and whites lived togheter, so no it would not be like apartheid. It would be more like the way human kind has lived for its entire existence minus the last 30 years.
As for killing mulattos, I live that to the hutus and tutsis in Rwanda to sort out.
Helping Africans is a act of good will towards mankind. Its possible to be a strong opponent of a multi-racial society and a great humaniterian at the same time. A good example is the neo-fascist Fritjof Nansen who won the "Norwegian of the Century" award recently. He is credited for being of the utmost importance in the founding of the Armenian state and ending the ethnic slaughter of the Armenians at the hands of the Turks:
"In 1921 the Red Cross asked Nansen, to organize a relief program for the millions of Russians dying in the Russian Famine of 1921-1922. Western nations suspected that the Russian famine was created by government mismanagement of the economy and it was hard to obtain funding, but Nansen found enough supplies to help between 7,000,000 and 22,000,000 Russians. For the next few years, Nansen undertook further humanitarian work, and in 1922 he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. He was involved in the negotiations between the Greek and Turkish governments that lead to the Treaty of Lausanne.[12] In the latter half of the 1920s he worked to solve the crisis starting as the Armenian Genocide of 1915 and involving the Armenians in Turkey. In present Armenia he is regarded as both a true humanitarian and a hero. [13]
....
In 1921 the Red Cross asked Nansen, to organize a relief program for the millions of Russians dying in the Russian Famine of 1921-1922. Western nations suspected that the Russian famine was created by government mismanagement of the economy and it was hard to obtain funding, but Nansen found enough supplies to help between 7,000,000 and 22,000,000 Russians. For the next few years, Nansen undertook further humanitarian work, and in 1922 he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. He was involved in the negotiations between the Greek and Turkish governments that lead to the Treaty of Lausanne.[12] In the latter half of the 1920s he worked to solve the crisis starting as the Armenian Genocide of 1915 and involving the Armenians in Turkey. In present Armenia he is regarded as both a true humanitarian and a hero. [13]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fridtjof_Nansen
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Well, apartheid was a regime where blacks and whites lived togheter, so no it would not be like apartheid. It would be more like the way human kind has lived for its entire existence minus the last 30 years.
World history is kindof different, but i guess Norway was to cold to be visited by the exotics.
As for killing mulattos, I live that to the hutus and tutsis in Rwanda to sort out.
I am just wondering if Elena and me (if it works out) have kids, what is going to happen to them, or what you would do with me (as i am "multi" aswell) or the family of my Sister.
I am just making sure my guns are oiled up incase some crazy Norwagian Viking wants to ethnicly cleanse Holland.
Helping Africans is a act of good will towards mankind.
Aid to Africa doesnt work, it harms actually. And its actually a way of liberal whites (worst racist) to feel better about themselves,
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Aid-Working-Better-Africa/dp/0374139563. I am not surprised you see yourself as one of them.
Its possible to be a strong opponent of a multi-racial society and a great humaniterian at the same time.
Yup, look at me.
A good example is the neo-fascist Fritjof Nansen who won the "Norwegian of the Century" award recently. He is credited for being of the utmost importance in the founding of the Armenian state and ending the ethnic slaughter of the Armenians at the hands of the Turks
There are many neo-nazis/fascist who saved a lot of people (my favourites are Rommel and John Rabe), that doesnt mean their dispicable ideology is ok.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/15/international/asia/15letter.html
But 69 years ago the courtyard was filled with hundreds of Chinese seeking refuge from Japanese troops who were rampaging through the city, then China's capital. The invaders subjected Nanjing to a six-week reign of terror, killing large numbers of Chinese soldiers who had thrown down their weapons and murdering and raping thousands of civilians.
The property was the home of John Rabe, a Nazi Party member and employee of Siemens. In addition to sheltering people in his own compound, Mr. Rabe led a score of other foreigners in the city to form an international safety zone that shielded more than 200,000 Chinese from the Japanese.
Not bad, saving 200.000 civilians,
Ok i gatto go back to work, lets agree to disagree,[deleted, personal attack-Brass]
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Its possible to be a strong opponent of a multi-racial society and a great humaniterian at the same time.
Yup, look at me.
Correction, i thought i saw the words "multicultural" but infact it states "multiracial" , so i that that "Yup, look ta me" back.
Race purity is the way to go, :ROFL:
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So we can get back to the topic in hand now can we?
Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
Leo, being black, that does not make this topic your blog. Please try to stay on topic.
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So we can get back to the topic in hand now can we?
Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
Leo, being black, that does not make this topic your blog. Please try to stay on topic.
We touched race purity, "mixed" marraiges, safety of raising said "mixed" families I think they are kindof related to the subject?. We didnt talk about how to cook an egg, that would be really off topic Manny, dont you agree?
Anyway Manny, i am leaving sat 1 aug, and will post a link to a pic here if all goes well.
Thanks for having me tiphat
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There are RW who prefer dark skinned men over white skinned men.
Most of them don't but some do. If you seek, you will find.
Here is a profile below as an example
http://www.myspace.com/dasha_trueglow
I am NOT going to participate in the rest of the CRAP that this thread has
deteriorated into.
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I am NOT going to participate in the rest of the CRAP that this thread has
deteriorated into.
But you just did, by saying what had been said before,
Try to understand that having a race fetish is not the same as being able to date colored and white people and having no problem with them. Personally I stay away from women like that. But i am really wondering if you can "get" what i mean!
Clishe's are easy, you dont have to think when using them!
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I think this whole thread has gone down the gutter.
As an individual who is about to take a 46 year old black fireman from Oklahoma, a 28 year old Pakistani software Engineer from San Francisco and a 42 year old Asian doctor from North Carolina on a tour with several white American's, Canadian's, Englishmen and a guy from Belgium, I know what prejudice exist in the FSU as I have seen it first hand over the last 14 years.
The African American and American man born in Pakistan are going to have a more difficult time than the Asian. The Asian will not suffer quite the amount of prejudice that the other two will.
I am very upfront and honest with these men. Where as all the white men will have a response rate from the women who interest them in the 28 to 34% range, the African American and Pakistan American will have about an 8% reply rate and 10% if their damn lucky. But things are changing, in the late 90's, very earlier 2000's, these minorities were dealing with about a 5% response rate. And these are based on Ukraine figures, Russian figures are even lower.
This whole process is a numbers game. Most of us have to write a lot of ladies who interest us to be able to meet a third of those ladies. Minorities will have to write a lot of women in hopes of getting close to a 10% response rate.
Their is NO sugar coating the amount of prejudice that exist today. It is there and is going to be there for some time, although with each passing year the percentages of women willing to meet minorities rise a little.
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Same numbers for Western Europe, again same numbers, the amount of intermarriages is very low in the west, single digits percentage wise!! No different then Russia, ask an average Dutch girl if she would MARRY a Moroccan guy. I am guessing 99% says NO! (dating is something else)
As a "minority" you can easily date (i mean date seriously) European ladies, but it requires that you do not sink into tribal etno centrism. (A lot of minorities do that unfortunately)
Interesting nunya, from personal experience, i don't write women, i just put my profile up and see what comes in, pretty simple really and if I had to reply to every mail i got, let alone entertain conversations with them,..there wouldn't be enough seconds in the day.
As you know nunya, i came back from Nikolayev from a short 3 day trip (one day fly in, one day fly out including). And it was my 3rd trip to the Ukraine,
bullseye, i am planning more face2face time right now, but on an emotional level everything feels right.
Her profile is off the board where i found her (cuteonly.com) we stopped looking.
Am i the exception? Statistics doesn't work that way!
Again, let the women choose you, ..., and you have to be a tad handsome and charming and your OK!
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I think this whole thread has gone down the gutter.
As an individual who is about to take a 46 year old black fireman from Oklahoma, a 28 year old Pakistani software Engineer from San Francisco and a 42 year old Asian doctor from North Carolina on a tour with several white American's, Canadian's, Englishmen and a guy from Belgium, I know what prejudice exist in the FSU as I have seen it first hand over the last 14 years.
The African American and American man born in Pakistan are going to have a more difficult time than the Asian. The Asian will not suffer quite the amount of prejudice that the other two will.
I am very upfront and honest with these men. Where as all the white men will have a response rate from the women who interest them in the 28 to 34% range, the African American and Pakistan American will have about an 8% reply rate and 10% if their damn lucky. But things are changing, in the late 90's, very earlier 2000's, these minorities were dealing with about a 5% response rate. And these are based on Ukraine figures, Russian figures are even lower.
This whole process is a numbers game. Most of us have to write a lot of ladies who interest us to be able to meet a third of those ladies. Minorities will have to write a lot of women in hopes of getting close to a 10% response rate.
Their is NO sugar coating the amount of prejudice that exist today. It is there and is going to be there for some time, although with each passing year the percentages of women willing to meet minorities rise a little.
How is that prejudice? ??? Just because you disagree with their choices? Anyone preferring only White/European or Hispanic is a bigot? Maybe the bigotry is with a person who constantly protests about some perceived bigotry...when in fact, it is merely people using their freedom of choice. That's all I have to say on this one. tiphat
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I think this whole thread has gone down the gutter.
As an individual who is about to take a 46 year old black fireman from Oklahoma, a 28 year old Pakistani software Engineer from San Francisco and a 42 year old Asian doctor from North Carolina on a tour with several white American's, Canadian's, Englishmen and a guy from Belgium, I know what prejudice exist in the FSU as I have seen it first hand over the last 14 years.
The African American and American man born in Pakistan are going to have a more difficult time than the Asian. The Asian will not suffer quite the amount of prejudice that the other two will.
I am very upfront and honest with these men. Where as all the white men will have a response rate from the women who interest them in the 28 to 34% range, the African American and Pakistan American will have about an 8% reply rate and 10% if their damn lucky. But things are changing, in the late 90's, very earlier 2000's, these minorities were dealing with about a 5% response rate. And these are based on Ukraine figures, Russian figures are even lower.
This whole process is a numbers game. Most of us have to write a lot of ladies who interest us to be able to meet a third of those ladies. Minorities will have to write a lot of women in hopes of getting close to a 10% response rate.
Their is NO sugar coating the amount of prejudice that exist today. It is there and is going to be there for some time, although with each passing year the percentages of women willing to meet minorities rise a little.
How is that prejudice? ??? Just because you disagree with their choices? Anyone preferring only White/European or Hispanic is a bigot? Maybe the bigotry is with a person who constantly protests about some perceived bigotry...when in fact, it is merely people using their freedom of choice. That's all I have to say on this one. tiphat
By definition it is prejudice. Look it up. Trying to fit your American concept of prejudice with an FSU woman's "preferences" is not going to be very productive.
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Without devolving into the racist aspect of racial identity, those of us who are married to RW perhaps have a better yardstick with which to measure. With this thread in mind I asked Mrs. jb how she felt about meeting a black man for dating.
Hypothetically, mind you, I suggested she imagine herself at age +/-30, single, and wishing to start a family, would she consider meeting with a foreign black man. Her answer was a resounding; "Are you crazy?!!" I asked a few more questions designed to root out the nature of her prejudice and she finally said it boiled down to the following,,, "I wanted children that looked like me and my family, not a 'coconut' ". Russian families take great pride in the grandchildren and such "odd" looking children would be an embarrassment that could not be borne. Her mother, father, aunt's, uncles, cousins, etc., would have disowned her if that were the case.
I took the question a bit farther and asked about middle-eastern men and Asians, same answer, this time with the added emphasis on culture. Most Russians identify themselves as white Europeans, and by extension, culturally aligned with America, Canada, Australia, and other sorts of similar euro-stemmed cultures. Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Indian, Pakistani, and Arabs in general are too far off in matters of culture and religion to be contenders for marriage consideration.
My wife may be the exception to the multicultural rule, but I doubt it. I think she speaks for the majority. When I asked about these black men finding some success, she allowed that there were probably some women so hungry for a bit of betterment, they would take whatever was placed before them.
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Jb, as usual nothing added,
If your wife wants to do racial identity, great for her, i really mean it, its "freedom of choice".
But the people who nag constantly about this,...,why do they care? Big red flag here!
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Russian families take great pride in the grandchildren and such "odd" looking children would be an embarrassment that could not be borne.
Donno, although your own preferences on this subject have been made very clear by you! :king:
So i tend to take your generalisations with a grain of salt, the salt being "wishfull thinking"
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And you, sir, are a train wreck looking for a place to happen.
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Boris Definition of prejudice
–noun 1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
3. unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.
4. such attitudes considered collectively: The war against prejudice is never-ending.
5. damage or injury; detriment: a law that operated to the prejudice of the majority.
Number two is interesting since it actually states both ways, positive and negative. Hence looking exclusively for an FSU wife is also being prejudice.
Since I meet and talk to all races at some point here, if you are not attracted to some, for a partner, is that prejudice or just normal behavior. You will not be attracted to every women you meet, all for different reasons. Yet I would not call that prejudice either. If you find the majority of a certain race do not attract your interest, is that prejudice or just nature at work. Now you may have nothing against the person, as a friend, or to talk to, but if they do not interest you as a partner, then it is nature who is at work, not prejudice.
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I think this whole thread has gone down the gutter.
As an individual who is about to take a 46 year old black fireman from Oklahoma, a 28 year old Pakistani software Engineer from San Francisco and a 42 year old Asian doctor from North Carolina on a tour with several white American's, Canadian's, Englishmen and a guy from Belgium, I know what prejudice exist in the FSU as I have seen it first hand over the last 14 years.
The African American and American man born in Pakistan are going to have a more difficult time than the Asian. The Asian will not suffer quite the amount of prejudice that the other two will.
I am very upfront and honest with these men. Where as all the white men will have a response rate from the women who interest them in the 28 to 34% range, the African American and Pakistan American will have about an 8% reply rate and 10% if their damn lucky. But things are changing, in the late 90's, very earlier 2000's, these minorities were dealing with about a 5% response rate. And these are based on Ukraine figures, Russian figures are even lower.
This whole process is a numbers game. Most of us have to write a lot of ladies who interest us to be able to meet a third of those ladies. Minorities will have to write a lot of women in hopes of getting close to a 10% response rate.
Their is NO sugar coating the amount of prejudice that exist today. It is there and is going to be there for some time, although with each passing year the percentages of women willing to meet minorities rise a little.
How is that prejudice? ??? Just because you disagree with their choices? Anyone preferring only White/European or Hispanic is a bigot? Maybe the bigotry is with a person who constantly protests about some perceived bigotry...when in fact, it is merely people using their freedom of choice. That's all I have to say on this one. tiphat
May I add some "Hispanics" are indeed white European. Hispanic was a cultural definition that has been distorsioned into an ethnic one. Hispanics came in all colours: brown (Amerindian Hispanics), white (European Hispanics), black (African Hispanics), yellow (Asian Hispanics) etc.
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Without devolving into the racist aspect of racial identity, those of us who are married to RW perhaps have a better yardstick with which to measure. With this thread in mind I asked Mrs. jb how she felt about meeting a black man for dating.
Hypothetically, mind you, I suggested she imagine herself at age +/-30, single, and wishing to start a family, would she consider meeting with a foreign black man. Her answer was a resounding; "Are you crazy?!!" I asked a few more questions designed to root out the nature of her prejudice and she finally said it boiled down to the following,,, "I wanted children that looked like me and my family, not a 'coconut' ". Russian families take great pride in the grandchildren and such "odd" looking children would be an embarrassment that could not be borne. Her mother, father, aunt's, uncles, cousins, etc., would have disowned her if that were the case.
I took the question a bit farther and asked about middle-eastern men and Asians, same answer, this time with the added emphasis on culture. Most Russians identify themselves as white Europeans, and by extension, culturally aligned with America, Canada, Australia, and other sorts of similar euro-stemmed cultures. Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Indian, Pakistani, and Arabs in general are too far off in matters of culture and religion to be contenders for marriage consideration.
My wife may be the exception to the multicultural rule, but I doubt it. I think she speaks for the majority. When I asked about these black men finding some success, she allowed that there were probably some women so hungry for a bit of betterment, they would take whatever was placed before them.
Starting from the premise that Arab is the ethnicity and Muslim is the religion, there are some Arabs that tend to be light skinned so then; if a light skinned Arab born in the west (or has emmigrated there and completely assimilated to western culture) seeks a Russian woman, then what are his chances? If he is light skinned and has assimilated to western culture he will be regarded in a much positive way, or still will find some prejudices in the Former Soviet Union because of his cultural background?
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Number two is interesting since it actually states both ways, positive and negative. Hence looking exclusively for an FSU wife is also being prejudice.
Since I meet and talk to all races at some point here, if you are not attracted to some, for a partner, is that prejudice or just normal behavior. You will not be attracted to every women you meet, all for different reasons. Yet I would not call that prejudice either. If you find the majority of a certain race do not attract your interest, is that prejudice or just nature at work. Now you may have nothing against the person, as a friend, or to talk to, but if they do not interest you as a partner, then it is nature who is at work, not prejudice.
You hit the nail on the head on this
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I think this whole thread has gone down the gutter.
As an individual who is about to take a 46 year old black fireman from Oklahoma, a 28 year old Pakistani software Engineer from San Francisco and a 42 year old Asian doctor from North Carolina on a tour with several white American's, Canadian's, Englishmen and a guy from Belgium, I know what prejudice exist in the FSU as I have seen it first hand over the last 14 years.
The African American and American man born in Pakistan are going to have a more difficult time than the Asian. The Asian will not suffer quite the amount of prejudice that the other two will.
I am very upfront and honest with these men. Where as all the white men will have a response rate from the women who interest them in the 28 to 34% range, the African American and Pakistan American will have about an 8% reply rate and 10% if their damn lucky. But things are changing, in the late 90's, very earlier 2000's, these minorities were dealing with about a 5% response rate. And these are based on Ukraine figures, Russian figures are even lower.
This whole process is a numbers game. Most of us have to write a lot of ladies who interest us to be able to meet a third of those ladies. Minorities will have to write a lot of women in hopes of getting close to a 10% response rate.
Their is NO sugar coating the amount of prejudice that exist today. It is there and is going to be there for some time, although with each passing year the percentages of women willing to meet minorities rise a little.
How is that prejudice? ??? Just because you disagree with their choices? Anyone preferring only White/European or Hispanic is a bigot? Maybe the bigotry is with a person who constantly protests about some perceived bigotry...when in fact, it is merely people using their freedom of choice. That's all I have to say on this one. tiphat
May I add some "Hispanics" are indeed white European. Hispanic was a cultural definition that has been distorsioned into an ethnic one. Hispanics came in all colours: brown (Amerindian Hispanics), white (European Hispanics), black (African Hispanics), yellow (Asian Hispanics) etc.
Nope, People from Spain we call Spanjards,its that simple! Never met a white "Hispanic"
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Starting from the premise that Arab is the ethnicity and Muslim is the religion, there are some Arabs that tend to be light skinned so then; if a light skinned Arab born in the west
Wrong again, the population of Northern Africa was caucasion (and was part of Europe) before the jihad invasions starting from the 7th century.
My first girlfriend was a blond egyption Kopt (Christian) girl. Nuff said
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I think this whole thread has gone down the gutter.
As an individual who is about to take a 46 year old black fireman from Oklahoma, a 28 year old Pakistani software Engineer from San Francisco and a 42 year old Asian doctor from North Carolina on a tour with several white American's, Canadian's, Englishmen and a guy from Belgium, I know what prejudice exist in the FSU as I have seen it first hand over the last 14 years.
The African American and American man born in Pakistan are going to have a more difficult time than the Asian. The Asian will not suffer quite the amount of prejudice that the other two will.
I am very upfront and honest with these men. Where as all the white men will have a response rate from the women who interest them in the 28 to 34% range, the African American and Pakistan American will have about an 8% reply rate and 10% if their damn lucky. But things are changing, in the late 90's, very earlier 2000's, these minorities were dealing with about a 5% response rate. And these are based on Ukraine figures, Russian figures are even lower.
This whole process is a numbers game. Most of us have to write a lot of ladies who interest us to be able to meet a third of those ladies. Minorities will have to write a lot of women in hopes of getting close to a 10% response rate.
Their is NO sugar coating the amount of prejudice that exist today. It is there and is going to be there for some time, although with each passing year the percentages of women willing to meet minorities rise a little.
How is that prejudice? ??? Just because you disagree with their choices? Anyone preferring only White/European or Hispanic is a bigot? Maybe the bigotry is with a person who constantly protests about some perceived bigotry...when in fact, it is merely people using their freedom of choice. That's all I have to say on this one. tiphat
May I add some "Hispanics" are indeed white European. Hispanic was a cultural definition that has been distorsioned into an ethnic one. Hispanics came in all colours: brown (Amerindian Hispanics), white (European Hispanics), black (African Hispanics), yellow (Asian Hispanics) etc.
Nope, People from Spain we call Spanjards,its that simple! Never met a white "Hispanic"
Yeah right sure..... whatever you said.....I should paint my face of black then ......
By the way when I said "European Hispanics" I was referring to all white Hispanics from European ancestry not only to Spaniards.
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Starting from the premise that Arab is the ethnicity and Muslim is the religion, there are some Arabs that tend to be light skinned so then; if a light skinned Arab born in the west
Wrong again, the population of Northern Africa was caucasion (and was part of Europe) before the jihad invasions starting from the 7th century.
My first girlfriend was a blond egyption Kopt (Christian) girl. Nuff said
You have some reading comprehension issues, read what I said again; "there are some Arabs that tend to be light skinned"
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They are not Arabs, a lof of Kopts (live in Egypt) are actually partly decendents of caucasians, So the "light" part is not arabic.
What did i read wrong? Just disagreeing, i dated one "light" "arab"(lol) girl.
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They are not Arabs, a lof of Kopts (live in Egypt) are actually partly decendents of caucasians, So the "light" part is not arabic.
What did i read wrong? Just disagreeing, i dated one "light" "arab"(lol) girl.
When I mentioned Egypt in particular? The Arab world is not only Egypt
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This topic has been cleaned once more of off topic posts and trolling.
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I think this whole thread has gone down the gutter.
As an individual who is about to take a 46 year old black fireman from Oklahoma, a 28 year old Pakistani software Engineer from San Francisco and a 42 year old Asian doctor from North Carolina on a tour with several white American's, Canadian's, Englishmen and a guy from Belgium, I know what prejudice exist in the FSU as I have seen it first hand over the last 14 years.
The African American and American man born in Pakistan are going to have a more difficult time than the Asian. The Asian will not suffer quite the amount of prejudice that the other two will.
I am very upfront and honest with these men. Where as all the white men will have a response rate from the women who interest them in the 28 to 34% range, the African American and Pakistan American will have about an 8% reply rate and 10% if their damn lucky. But things are changing, in the late 90's, very earlier 2000's, these minorities were dealing with about a 5% response rate. And these are based on Ukraine figures, Russian figures are even lower.
This whole process is a numbers game. Most of us have to write a lot of ladies who interest us to be able to meet a third of those ladies. Minorities will have to write a lot of women in hopes of getting close to a 10% response rate.
Their is NO sugar coating the amount of prejudice that exist today. It is there and is going to be there for some time, although with each passing year the percentages of women willing to meet minorities rise a little.
How is that prejudice? ??? Just because you disagree with their choices? Anyone preferring only White/European or Hispanic is a bigot? Maybe the bigotry is with a person who constantly protests about some perceived bigotry...when in fact, it is merely people using their freedom of choice. That's all I have to say on this one. tiphat
May I add some "Hispanics" are indeed white European. Hispanic was a cultural definition that has been distorsioned into an ethnic one. Hispanics came in all colours: brown (Amerindian Hispanics), white (European Hispanics), black (African Hispanics), yellow (Asian Hispanics) etc.
Nope, People from Spain we call Spanjards,its that simple! Never met a white "Hispanic"
Leo you seem to have a rather limited understanding of the different peoples of the world. Hispanics, like Arabs can be blue eyed blondes. In some cases Hispanic and Arab has more to do with culture than skin colour.
Then you have people like Salma Hayek, a Mexican born actress who has become quite successful in Hollywood and who also happens to be of Lebanese descent. How she is viewed in Mexico I would have to leave that up to someone who lives in Mexico.
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blue eyes, sure race purity doesnt exist,
Look at the children of my sister, blue eyes and blond curly hair with some "nappiness" at the back, to funny, sure they are Dutch but that is the result of "race"mixing, note the quotes , so it goes for all peoples as well,
So what do i dont know?
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Leo,
You don't have to worry about "racial purity",,, somebody pee'ed in your gene pool a long time ago.
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blue eyes, sure race purity doesnt exist,
Look at the children of my sister, blue eyes and blond curly hair with some "nappiness" at the back, to funny, sure they are Dutch but that is the result of "race"mixing, note the quotes , so it goes for all peoples as well,
So what do i dont know?
Leo "racial purity" doesn't exist. Science says all people came from Africa somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 years ago.
As for JB's comment about peeing in the gene pool in some ways it's true. All blue eyed people are genetically related, they all evolved from the same single person somewhere between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080130170343.htm
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Kopts (live in Egypt)
Are you referring to the Copts (Coptic Christians) who live primarily in Egypt and Syria?
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blue eyes, sure race purity doesnt exist,
Look at the children of my sister, blue eyes and blond curly hair with some "nappiness" at the back, to funny, sure they are Dutch but that is the result of "race"mixing, note the quotes , so it goes for all peoples as well,
So what do i dont know?
Leo "racial purity" doesn't exist. Science says all people came from Africa somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 years ago.
As for JB's comment about peeing in the gene pool in some ways it's true. All blue eyed people are genetically related, they all evolved from the same single person somewhere between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080130170343.htm
Thanks for repeating my claim, blue eyes is a combination of 5 recessive fenotypes, i dont know about a "single" person, its a recessesive fenotype, so you need some very selective breeding for it to "pop up".
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Kopts (live in Egypt)
Are you referring to the Copts (Coptic Christians) who live primarily in Egypt and Syria?
Ok, in English it is a "C" not a "K" (Dutch),
Anyway, Kopts are now more of a religeous group who refuse to convert to islam and hence there gene pool is a bit isolated,..,
You will see more caucasionism in Kopts then the surrounding population;
jb
You don't have to worry about "racial purity",,, somebody pee'ed in your gene pool a long time ago.
]
I can trace my lineage back to 1620, the capitalist area , the United Provinces of the Dutch Republic. I dont think you can do the same, as for compitence, i know that although people, like you jb, try to hold me back, i have succeeded above and beyond, without any goverment handout, setaside or otherwise.
And "E.D" knows this, women feel this!!! That is the attraction!!
(Crap, i have to tell "E.D" how i spent last night wasted with 3 french chicks under 23, mmm probably not :sick0012:).
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Leo "racial purity" doesn't exist. Science says all people came from Africa somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 years ago.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080130170343.htm
Cool link though,my father has blue eyes, but i dont, i have don't even have brown eyes, they are "manga" black , like you see in Japanese mange movies. "E.D" has black hair and deep blue aqua eyes, i havent seen this kind of blue before. Hypnotising!
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Leo "racial purity" doesn't exist. Science says all people came from Africa somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 years ago.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080130170343.htm
Cool link though,my father has blue eyes, but i dont, i have don't even have brown eyes, they are "manga" black , like you see in Japanese mange movies. "E.D" has black hair and deep blue aqua eyes, i havent seen this kind of blue before. Hypnotising!
No such thing as black colored eyes. Only dark brown eyes. Blue eyes can be light blue to dark blue and even grey eyes.
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Some people have so much melanin in their skin they look "blue" (as in very black). Why wouldnt that work for eyes? Again, i see them every day in the mirror.
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Ok, situation update, yesterday a big scene on the phone, "E.D." is such a scared little girl, so much unknown for her moving here, Brussels is not that far from her family though, its not like it is a transatlantic flight if she wants to see her family. I was calm, sturdy and explaining. I guess finding an FSU wife was the easy part (for me atleast), lol. Keeping her is a different ballgame. I am flying back on the 10th to meet her family. If remember correctly i have to win her parents over, get their blessing (or it is over!).
Her father is not a problem, strong men "feel" each others presence, the mother is a different story.
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Yes, acquiring a target is easy and can be done, for ill or good, as rapidly as you suggested. Keeping - or in your case, starting, the relationship takes more work and time and is one reason why most guys do not go round boasting of their success quite so soon, we understand this as a given. ;)
You did not find a wife yet.
You found a target.
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Some people have so much melanin in their skin they look "blue" (as in very black). Why wouldnt that work for eyes? Again, i see them every day in the mirror.
I am not an expert on this, all my knowledge comes from a couple of university anthropology courses on human evolution that I took several years ago. The professor explained human evolution and differences like skin and eye colour as very minor differences between different individuals. According to that prof there really is no such thing as black people in the same way as there is no such thing as white people.
Just like the average Swedish person living in the far north of Sweden may be very pale he is not white. An African person may appear to be black, say someone like the entertainer Seal, but when a skin sample is taken and looked at under a microscope it is identifiable as dark brown. It is just that all the skin cells placed close together creating the illusion of black.
So when you look in the mirror and see black eyes it is just the large amount of melanin within the iris that creates the illusion of black. That being said it actually is possible to have black eyes due to some medical problems that you may have experienced, but that is not genetic inheritance.
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So when you look in the mirror and see black eyes it is just the large amount of melanin within the iris that creates the illusion of black. That being said it actually is possible to have black eyes due to some medical problems that you may have experienced, but that is not genetic inheritance.
?? thanks for telling me that black color comes from Melanin, i didnt know that,... :Zzzzsleep:
Lets stay on topic shall we?
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Yes, acquiring a target is easy and can be done, for ill or good, as rapidly as you suggested. Keeping - or in your case, starting, the relationship takes more work and time and is one reason why most guys do not go round boasting of their success quite so soon, we understand this as a given. ;)
You did not find a wife yet.
You found a target.
Get a high status women like "E.D" is a huge feat of accomplishment in itself, she is an Angel. I wasnt boasting, although my enemies here who would not like to see someone like me getting children with an Ukranian would state otherwise.
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Hi Leo,
Just be careful with this girl. I have not read much on the race discussion as it is not interesting to me. But it appears you met this girl for first time and now are engaged within 2-3 days? Where you speaking by phone and skype for long? You probably have mentioned this but I did not read all the posts. You do seem to have a nice fan club. ;D
I am not back in Brussels yet but maybe this Sunday.
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Ok, situation update, yesterday a big scene on the phone, "E.D." is such a scared little girl, so much unknown for her moving here, Brussels is not that far from her family though, its not like it is a transatlantic flight if she wants to see her family. I was calm, sturdy and explaining. I guess finding an FSU wife was the easy part (for me atleast), lol. Keeping her is a different ballgame. I am flying back on the 10th to meet her family. If remember correctly i have to win her parents over, get their blessing (or it is over!).
Her father is not a problem, strong men "feel" each others presence, the mother is a different story.
Hmmmm.............Not your wife yet...................If i know Ukrainian women.............................Lots of work ahead................Boastings out otherwise trainwreck.
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Kievstar,
Yeah, if your not famous be infamous, :)
I am like you, a consultant, i also am part owner of a firm in the Netherlands , so my time has value, i work at the HR department for the EU where we manage all 70.000+ careers of the EC and EP. Its very easy for me to spot a womens character who would complement me. The same way we judge someones fittness for a certain "administrative level". It's my job!
Short story:
"E.D" and I have been talking since 2 jun actually. But she didnt pop up on my radar as i was interested in a couple of other ladies at the time and partying my ass off in Brussels, (last summer for me being single :saint:).
One of her emails got my attention as her character is dominated by "lover" archetype. My exact opposite. I am not a keyboard Romeo. So i pretty much just flew over to meet her, i stayed for 1 full day , (3 days total including 2 flying). The background checks were very good, especially the extensive ones where the detectives get to talk to their neighbours etc.
This Monday i am flying back to meet her parents, i dont know about Sunday, i have a shitload of paperwork to do for Shengen visa.
Is your wife staying in the Ukraine or moving to Belgium?
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Get a high status women....
Yes that's the most thing to look for in a marriage, make sure the girl is high status. :D
Ok, situation update, yesterday a big scene on the phone, "
Hmmmm.............Not your wife yet...................If i know Ukrainian women.............................Lots of work ahead................Boastings out otherwise trainwreck.
Oh, no worries Mark, when he told her how virile he was, banging 3 french chicks in the same night, I'm sure she was right impressed! :sick0012:
:o
Crap, i have to tell "E.D" how i spent last night wasted with 3 french chicks under 23,
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Get a high status women....
Yes that's the most thing to look for in a marriage, make sure the girl is high status. :D
Ok, situation update, yesterday a big scene on the phone, "
Hmmmm.............Not your wife yet...................If i know Ukrainian women.............................Lots of work ahead................Boastings out otherwise trainwreck.
Oh, no worries Mark, when he told her how virile he was, banging 3 french chicks in the same night, I'm sure she was right impressed! :sick0012:
:o
Crap, i have to tell "E.D" how i spent last night wasted with 3 french chicks under 23,
Now that would really win the future mum inlaw over :fighting0004:
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"The background checks were very good, especially the extensive ones where the detectives get to talk to their neighbours etc."
Love is in the air....I just picture three Ukrainian "detectives" counting Leo's money and drinking beer having never got off their arse to check anything. :chuckle:
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"The background checks were very good, especially the extensive ones where the detectives get to talk to their neighbours etc."
Love is the air....I just picture three Ukrainian "detectives" counting Leo's money and drinking beer having never got off their arse to check anything. :chuckle:
:laugh: yes you can just picture it can't you :ROFL: shall we have another beer Yuri or go visit that neighbour, no lets have a beer Dima, Leoski won't know any different anyway :chuckle:
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Now that would really win the future mum inlaw over :fighting0004:
Yes, I'm sure M.I.L. was thrilled when he told her how many "billable hours" it cost him to fly over and bed her daughter :fighting0025:
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You forgot how many "billable hours" it would have cost him to acquire the three French girls, plus booze. :laugh:
Perfect marriage material here. Just picture this scene, little wifey home making dinner, while he is out, with other women. :coffeeread:
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Ok, in English it is a "C" not a "K" (Dutch),
Anyway, Kopts are now more of a religeous group who refuse to convert to islam and hence there gene pool is a bit isolated,..,
You will see more caucasionism in Kopts then the surrounding population;
Sorry, this is hogwash.
Coptic Christians are Egyptians and Syrians by ethnicity. They just happen to follow Christianity, part of Oriental Orthodoxy, instead of Islam.
Their choice of faith has nothing to do with skin colour or purity of gene pool, they look just like their neighbors.
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Lol, i can feel the rancor in the air, :ROFL: :ROFL:
Yes that's the most thing to look for in a marriage, make sure the girl is high status.
Why would i go for a "normal" Ukranian women if i can get the same thing here next door here in Europe?
Sorry to burst your bubble fellas, but i didnt pay for the French girls at all (they were students). Nor did i have sex with all of them. :). They liked my house though ;D ;D
Everytime i step on a plane to Odessa, i cant help but almost break up in laughter seeing men who wouldnt be touched back home by a 10 yard dipstick. Fat, old, out of shape. brown teeth sometimes (one [insulting comment deleted - Voyager] from the UK).
I am trying a different carrier this time instead of LOT airlines, their planes to Odessa are too small and they have no actual bussnissclass seats. I cant stomache sitting next to these people.
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Sorry, this is hogwash.
Coptic Christians are Egyptians and Syrians by ethnicity. They just happen to follow Christianity, part of Oriental Orthodoxy, instead of Islam.
Their choice of faith has nothing to do with skin colour or purity of gene pool, they look just like their neighbors.
Thank you for proving my point, and now go look how a "typical" Egyptian looks like, (Nefertitti statue has blue eyes). Oh, now they look like....arabs....kindof....weird...or not.
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Now that would really win the future mum inlaw over :fighting0004:
Yes, I'm sure M.I.L. was thrilled when he told her how many "billable hours" it cost him to fly over and bed her daughter :fighting0025:
Wasnt about money, but if you have to know, its about half a days work
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Thank you for proving my point, and now go look how a "typical" Egyptian looks like, (Nefertitti statue has blue eyes). Oh, now they look like....arabs....kindof....weird...or not.
Leo, you are either on drugs are seriously delusional. I said nothing to either "prove your point" and certainly said nothing about how a supposedly "typical" Egyptian looks.
I simply pointed out that you don't know what you are talking about regarding Coptic Egyptian Christains. Nothing more.
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Mendel,
I dated one who was blonde with gray eyes, its offtopic, but you are jumping into a discussion with link about "light" arabs. The point i was making to Link was that original population of Northern Africa was caucasian! But that was a long time ago.
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Lol, i can feel the rancor in the air, :ROFL: :ROFL:
Yes that's the most thing to look for in a marriage, make sure the girl is high status.
Why would i go for a "normal" Ukranian women if i can get the same thing here next door here in Europe?
Sorry to burst your bubble fellas, but i didnt pay for the French girls at all (they were students). Nor did i have sex with all of them. :). They liked my house though ;D ;D
Everytime i step on a plane to Odessa, i cant help but almost break up in laughter seeing men who wouldnt be touched back home by a 10 yard dipstick. Fat, old, out of shape. brown teeth sometimes (one fat greecy arab from the UK).
I am trying a different carrier this time instead of LOT airlines, their planes to Odessa are too small and they have no actual bussnissclass seats. I cant stomache sitting next to these p
I found some Frenchwomen tend to prefer black men or dark skinned men, in France I saw a high rate of success of black men among white Frenchwomen, even the kids produced from blonde Frenchwomen and a black men were used as advertising promoting products designed for babies. Such babies were a curiosity and were called the cappuccinos because of their exoticism. A couple of local students which were dark skinned went to France into a student exchange and they returned with a local white Frenchwomen as a girlfriends. One Frenchman from Calais had a baby with a mulatto girl here (mixture of black and white, but still black) after leaving the mother, he was still having relations with heavy dark skinned woman, asked him why did not looked for a gf in Germany for example, and his answer was: too many blondes there, I prefer girls in this particular area. In Quebec I've witnessed a similar behaviour with some French Canadian women.
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I didnt know you lived in France Link or next to France, which city in France did you visit?
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(mixture of black and white, but still black)
Ah, the "one drop rule", they still do that in the USA?
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Lol, i can feel the rancor in the air, :ROFL: :ROFL:
Yes that's the most thing to look for in a marriage, make sure the girl is high status.
Why would i go for a "normal" Ukranian women if i can get the same thing here next door here in Europe?
Sorry to burst your bubble fellas, but i didnt pay for the French girls at all (they were students). Nor did i have sex with all of them. :). They liked my house though ;D ;D
Everytime i step on a plane to Odessa, i cant help but almost break up in laughter seeing men who wouldnt be touched back home by a 10 yard dipstick. Fat, old, out of shape. brown teeth sometimes (one fat greecy arab from the UK).
I am trying a different carrier this time instead of LOT airlines, their planes to Odessa are too small and they have no actual bussnissclass seats. I cant stomache sitting next to these people.
Do you ever listen to the bullshit that comes out of your mouth
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Schastlivyj ,
I live the life i live the way i want it, why should i feel shame? I hurt no-one.
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I found some Frenchwomen tend to prefer black men or dark skinned men, in France a saw a high rate of success of black men among white Frenchwomen, even the kids produced from blonde Frenchwomen and a black men were used as advertising promoting products designed for babies. Such babies were a curiosity and were called the cappuccinos because of their exoticism. A couple of local students which were dark skinned went to France into a student exchange and they returned with a local white Frenchwomen as a girlfriends. One Frenchman from Calais had a baby with a mulatto girl here (mixture of black and white, but still black) after leaving the mother, he was still having relations with heavy dark skinned woman, asked him why did not looked for a gf in Germany for example, and his answer was: too many blondes there, I prefer girls in this particular area. In Quebec I've witnessed a similar behaviour with some French Canadian women.
Link, let me tell you a secret, the Swiss are up there with the French, and about the French, it has been going on for some time, because last year i had a relationship with an ex-co-worker here at the EU and i think she was about 4 years younger and a total mix of everything, beautyfull women with "golden" eyes.
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Leo,
Earlier, you promised to post a photo of you and your girlfriend. Are you going to take time out from your stories about the white women that you have bedded and keep your word?
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Leo,
Earlier, you promised to post a photo of you and your girlfriend. Are you going to take time out from your stories about the white women that you have bedded and keep your word?
Better yet invite Leo's subordinatrix to join here and see what her opionions of his posts about "the ladies" are and her gut reaction???
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Ironic that Jinx started this thread 9 months ago and will probably never see where it has gone. ::)
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Leo,
Earlier, you promised to post a photo of you and your girlfriend. Are you going to take time out from your stories about the white women that you have bedded and keep your word?
Strange sentence, i "bedded" a lot of women from a lot of etnicities, why are "white women" sp special? (Ok, they are kindof a majority in Europe so its hard to miss, so statistics works in their favor from my perspective).
But to answer your question, sure , if she agrees, its her photo too.
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... why are "white women" sp special?
That is an excellent question; why are white women so special, Leo?
But to answer your question, sure , if she agrees, its her photo too.
You didn't mention anything about the need for her permission when you made your earlier promise. Do her parents have to sign off on this as well?
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Ironic that Jinx started this thread 9 months ago and will probably never see where it has gone. ::)
Yes, he's probably going to have a good laugh at all the havoc the thread has caused... :P
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Ironic that Jinx started this thread 9 months ago and will probably never see where it has gone. ::)
Yes, he's probably going to have a good laugh at all the havoc the thread has caused... :P
Ignore actually works !!!!
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u149/2tallbill/celebrate.jpg)
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I am not an expert on this, all my knowledge comes from a couple of university anthropology courses on human evolution that I took several years ago. The professor explained human evolution and differences like skin and eye colour as very minor differences between different individuals.
Yeah, but these differences are just the tip of the ice berg.
The Norwegian gouvernment has a web page called "forskning.no" (meaning science.no) it posted refreshingly non-PC article saying that defeating raciscm is quite OK, but not lying about science in order to do so. The article then picked apart every so-called argument used by the left side to prove that there are not significant genetic differences between human races.
If you look at the medical, mental and physiological differences between the races, you'd see that there are big differences between the races.
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I am not an expert on this, all my knowledge comes from a couple of university anthropology courses on human evolution that I took several years ago. The professor explained human evolution and differences like skin and eye colour as very minor differences between different individuals.
Yeah, but these differences are just the tip of the ice berg.
The Norwegian gouvernment has a web page called "forskning.no" (meaning science.no) it posted refreshingly non-PC article saying that defeating raciscm is quite OK, but not lying about science in order to do so. The article then picked apart every so-called argument used by the left side to prove that there are not significant genetic differences between human races.
If you look at the medical, mental and physiological differences between the races, you'd see that there are big differences between the races.
I took a look at the Norwegian language website "forskning.no" and found no English language option. When I had Google translate it into English I couldn't find any link that talked about the genetic differences between races, although I did find an interesting article on global warming. If you would care to post a more direct link, preferably in English, I'll look at it.
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I am not an expert on this, all my knowledge comes from a couple of university anthropology courses on human evolution that I took several years ago. The professor explained human evolution and differences like skin and eye colour as very minor differences between different individuals.
Yeah, but these differences are just the tip of the ice berg.
The Norwegian gouvernment has a web page called "forskning.no" (meaning science.no) it posted refreshingly non-PC article saying that defeating raciscm is quite OK, but not lying about science in order to do so. The article then picked apart every so-called argument used by the left side to prove that there are not significant genetic differences between human races.
If you look at the medical, mental and physiological differences between the races, you'd see that there are big differences between the races.
I took a look at the Norwegian language website "forskning.no" and found no English language option. When I had Google translate it into English I couldn't find any link that talked about the genetic differences between races, although I did find an interesting article on global warming. If you would care to post a more direct link, preferably in English, I'll look at it.
http://www.forskning.no/artikler/2006/januar/1136203217.86
Its in Norwegian, though. Try translating it through google.
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I am not an expert on this, all my knowledge comes from a couple of university anthropology courses on human evolution that I took several years ago. The professor explained human evolution and differences like skin and eye colour as very minor differences between different individuals.
Yeah, but these differences are just the tip of the ice berg.
The Norwegian gouvernment has a web page called "forskning.no" (meaning science.no) it posted refreshingly non-PC article saying that defeating raciscm is quite OK, but not lying about science in order to do so. The article then picked apart every so-called argument used by the left side to prove that there are not significant genetic differences between human races.
If you look at the medical, mental and physiological differences between the races, you'd see that there are big differences between the races.
I took a look at the Norwegian language website "forskning.no" and found no English language option. When I had Google translate it into English I couldn't find any link that talked about the genetic differences between races, although I did find an interesting article on global warming. If you would care to post a more direct link, preferably in English, I'll look at it.
http://www.forskning.no/artikler/2006/januar/1136203217.86
Its in Norwegian, though. Try translating it through google.
Andreas I read your new link. For some reason Google wouldn't translate the entire webpage so I had to copy and paste it into Google language tools and translate it, even then some phrases wouldn't translate.
Overall the article didn't say anything that hasn't been said before. Things like why do particular groups of Kenyans dominate long distance running? Why do certain groups of Asians seem to be overly represented in higher education? Why do blacks dominate in basketball and baseball? The development of ethnic medicine that treats people via their ethnic origin.
I certainly don't know the answer to any of these questions but and there have been alternative answers proposed to the questions that do not involve different human races. For instance that certain groups of Kenyans dominate long distance running because their lifestyle has developed their bodies over generations to a body type that is the best developed to handle long distance running. Combine that with state of the art training and diet and you have a prototype long distance runner but not a different race.
Personally I adhere to the philosophy that race is the group of people that can produce progeny repeatedly over untold generations.
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Overall the article didn't say anything that hasn't been said before.
Its nothing new, more of a summary, really. But since its published on a gouvernmental home page it is a (relatively) credible source and as such its hard to just dismiss it as "right wing propaganda", something the lefties/loonies are so fond of doing. :)
I certainly don't know the answer to any of these questions but and there have been alternative answers proposed to the questions that do not involve different human races. For instance that certain groups of Kenyans dominate long distance running because their lifestyle has developed their bodies over generations to a body type that is the best developed to handle long distance running. Combine that with state of the art training and diet and you have a prototype long distance runner but not a different race.
Well, if their life style has made their bodies adapt, and thus change genetically, it means that they are a race of their own (by the very definition of the word "race").
Personally I adhere to the philosophy that race is the group of people that can produce progeny repeatedly over untold generations.
No, that would be "species".
The word "race" is used to describe a group within a specie that has certain genetical traits in common that seperate them from other members of the specie.
A doberman and a rottweiler can mate, this makes them members of the same specie (dogs), but all dobermans have certain genetic traits in common that seperates them from rottweilers, which makes the group "doberman" a race within the specie (dog).
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I probably shouldn't write this here. :evilgrin0002:
Mod note: And you are quite correct in that assessment WFM. ;D
I'm snipping that comment, as it won't help this thread that has gotten ugly already. Sorry.
Voyager
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Westcoast
INeteresting, i read the article too, but the interpretation of "Andreas-Norway" is nowhere to be found, i know he is all for race purity and such, but it would have been nice to see an article from a goverment website supporting his views.
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Overall the article didn't say anything that hasn't been said before.
Its nothing new, more of a summary, really. But since its published on a gouvernmental home page it is a (relatively) credible source and as such its hard to just dismiss it as "right wing propaganda", something the lefties/loonies are so fond of doing. :)
I certainly don't know the answer to any of these questions but and there have been alternative answers proposed to the questions that do not involve different human races. For instance that certain groups of Kenyans dominate long distance running because their lifestyle has developed their bodies over generations to a body type that is the best developed to handle long distance running. Combine that with state of the art training and diet and you have a prototype long distance runner but not a different race.
Well, if their life style has made their bodies adapt, and thus change genetically, it means that they are a race of their own (by the very definition of the word "race").
Personally I adhere to the philosophy that race is the group of people that can produce progeny repeatedly over untold generations.
No, that would be "species".
The word "race" is used to describe a group within a specie that has certain genetical traits in common that seperate them from other members of the specie.
A doberman and a rottweiler can mate, this makes them members of the same specie (dogs), but all dobermans have certain genetic traits in common that seperates them from rottweilers, which makes the group "doberman" a race within the specie (dog).
Your statement about the difference between species and race is exactly the point my professor was trying to make about anthropology. Early anthropologists only had the outside of the human to compare and so based their differences of people on such things as skin colour, eye colour, hair, size and shape of the head and other physical traits.
Now that we have DNA, anthropologists have discovered that visible physical traits account for very little of the DNA makeup of a person. You could be standing beside a person that was physically so similar to you that he could pass for your brother, however, on the inside his DNA could be so different that Dwayne Johnson (aka "The Rock" - African-Canadian and Samoan descent) is a closer genetic match. Does this mean that he is a different race from you because his DNA is so much different from yours?
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Your statement about the difference between species and race is exactly the point my professor was trying to make about anthropology. Early anthropologists only had the outside of the human to compare and so based their differences of people on such things as skin colour, eye colour, hair, size and shape of the head and other physical traits.
Now that we have DNA, anthropologists have discovered that visible physical traits account for very little of the DNA makeup of a person. You could be standing beside a person that was physically so similar to you that he could pass for your brother, however, on the inside his DNA could be so different that Dwayne Johnson (aka "The Rock" - African-Canadian and Samoan descent) is a closer genetic match. Does this mean that he is a different race from you because his DNA is so much different from yours?
Let me quote from the article I linked to:
"Mer likhet enn forskjell - men hva så?
Og finnes det forskjeller, så kan man si som Jared Diamond, da han tidlig på 1990-tallet ga oss et av de mest brukte argumentene i debatten: Begrepet rase er meningløst, ettersom de genetiske forskjeller innen for eksempel gruppen etniske nordmenn er større enn forskjellene mellom nordmenn og for eksempel San ("buskmenn").
Diamonds argument er først og fremst irrelevant fordi han ser på variasjoner i arvestoffet som helhet og som sådan, og ikke på variasjoner i genetikken der det betyr noe i det enkelte tilfelle - for eksempel i evnen til å sprinte 100 meter på under ti sekunder. Ser vi det slik, ser vi klare forskjeller, som kan forklares ut fra menneskets evolusjonære historie."
OK, for those of you who don't speak Norwegian (weirdos! ;D):
"More similarites than differences - so what?
If there are differences [genetic differences between different populations], you can say the same thing Jared Diamond did in the early 1990s when he gave us one of the most used argument in the debate: the word "race" is meaningless, because the genetic differences within a group, say ethnic Norwegians, are bigger than the differences between Noregian and the ethnic group "San" (bushmen).
Diamonds argument is first and foremost irrelevant, because he looks at the variation in the DNA as such and not at the variation in the DNA that matters in a given case, for example in the ability to do a 100 meter sprint in less than 10 seconds. If we look at it like that, we'll see clear differences that can be expained from the human evolutionary history."
The point is that you can't just lump all DNA into one big pile and say "ah, there is so much overlapping in the DNA that there is really no point in seperating negroes and whites into two different racial groups". A lot of our DNA is junk DNA, that is DNA that no longer has any purpose (for example DNA that has stuck with us from when we were apes and had body parts we no longer have), and a lot of it is irrelevant for other reasons (for example a baboon shares about 99% of its DNA with the members of this board. An insect can share about 50% of its DNA with you and me. This shows why counting DNA like its a "hard currency" where $1 = $1 is meaningless.
What you must do is look at a given group, for example negroes, and ask if there is a statistical and significant difference between blacks and whites, and if so, does this difference have a genetic component.
Take sprinting for example: there are white people who are fast (like the wide receiver Matt Jones) and black people who are slow. That doesn't change the fact that when looking at elite sprinters, black are overrepresented and this overrepresentation is definitely a result of blacks being born with a higher potential for extreme speed.
If you do the same thing with IQ and publish it in a book, like the Bell Curve, and show how certain ethnic groups are very overrepresented when it comes to having a high IQ whereas other ethnic groups tend to have a very low IQ then shit hits the fan and controversy goes rampant.
Because this type of research might shatter the marxist PC ideology completely, there are an extreme political aversion against the word "race" and everything that has to do with ethnic research.
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Westcoast
INeteresting, i read the article too, but the interpretation of "Andreas-Norway" is nowhere to be found, i know he is all for race purity and such, but it would have been nice to see an article from a goverment website supporting his views.
This article simply says that there are genetic differences between different human races. I found that to be rather interesting, especially since it comes from a PC source (the sosial democratic Norwegian gouvernment).
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Because this type of research might shatter the marxist PC ideology completely, there are an extreme political aversion against the word "race" and everything that has to do with ethnic research
Above quote was translated from the article into English,and actually worded as such in said article? I dont speak Norwegian so therefore i ask.
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Hi Andreas-Norway;
As you have promoted race purity before, how do you think you can accomplish said policy without eeh "deleting" mixed 'race' children?
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This article simply says that there are genetic differences between different human races.
Well of course there are, that much is obveous, but are these differences that actually matter? Everybody can say that Negros can run fast, so what? I dont know about intellectual capacity, if i look at the first cities on eath (Yericho 8000 BC ) i would say i took a look time for the Norwagion tribes to even begin building cities like the Persians or Indians (from India, not native Americans) does it mean that Norwegians are lower on the bell-curve?
Ok, i am off attending to "E.D". (no.. not that way, lol)
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Because this type of research might shatter the marxist PC ideology completely, there are an extreme political aversion against the word "race" and everything that has to do with ethnic research
Above quote was translated from the article into English,and actually worded as such in said article? I dont speak Norwegian so therefore i ask.
Yes, I translated it from in English, and this is how it was worded.
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Hi Andreas-Norway;
As you have promoted race purity before, how do you think you can accomplish said policy without eeh "deleting" mixed 'race' children?
I don't think a handfull of mixed children will destroy the homogenity of Europe. What I'm sceptical to is the extreme amounts of non-white immigrants being let into Europe, combined with the low birth rates of ethnic europeans.
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Your statement about the difference between species and race is exactly the point my professor was trying to make about anthropology. Early anthropologists only had the outside of the human to compare and so based their differences of people on such things as skin colour, eye colour, hair, size and shape of the head and other physical traits.
Now that we have DNA, anthropologists have discovered that visible physical traits account for very little of the DNA makeup of a person. You could be standing beside a person that was physically so similar to you that he could pass for your brother, however, on the inside his DNA could be so different that Dwayne Johnson (aka "The Rock" - African-Canadian and Samoan descent) is a closer genetic match. Does this mean that he is a different race from you because his DNA is so much different from yours?
Let me quote from the article I linked to:
"Mer likhet enn forskjell - men hva så?
Og finnes det forskjeller, så kan man si som Jared Diamond, da han tidlig på 1990-tallet ga oss et av de mest brukte argumentene i debatten: Begrepet rase er meningløst, ettersom de genetiske forskjeller innen for eksempel gruppen etniske nordmenn er større enn forskjellene mellom nordmenn og for eksempel San ("buskmenn").
Diamonds argument er først og fremst irrelevant fordi han ser på variasjoner i arvestoffet som helhet og som sådan, og ikke på variasjoner i genetikken der det betyr noe i det enkelte tilfelle - for eksempel i evnen til å sprinte 100 meter på under ti sekunder. Ser vi det slik, ser vi klare forskjeller, som kan forklares ut fra menneskets evolusjonære historie."
OK, for those of you who don't speak Norwegian (weirdos! ;D):
"More similarites than differences - so what?
If there are differences [genetic differences between different populations], you can say the same thing Jared Diamond did in the early 1990s when he gave us one of the most used argument in the debate: the word "race" is meaningless, because the genetic differences within a group, say ethnic Norwegians, are bigger than the differences between Noregian and the ethnic group "San" (bushmen).
Diamonds argument is first and foremost irrelevant, because he looks at the variation in the DNA as such and not at the variation in the DNA that matters in a given case, for example in the ability to do a 100 meter sprint in less than 10 seconds. If we look at it like that, we'll see clear differences that can be expained from the human evolutionary history."
The point is that you can't just lump all DNA into one big pile and say "ah, there is so much overlapping in the DNA that there is really no point in seperating negroes and whites into two different racial groups". A lot of our DNA is junk DNA, that is DNA that no longer has any purpose (for example DNA that has stuck with us from when we were apes and had body parts we no longer have), and a lot of it is irrelevant for other reasons (for example a baboon shares about 99% of its DNA with the members of this board. An insect can share about 50% of its DNA with you and me. This shows why counting DNA like its a "hard currency" where $1 = $1 is meaningless.
What you must do is look at a given group, for example negroes, and ask if there is a statistical and significant difference between blacks and whites, and if so, does this difference have a genetic component.
Take sprinting for example: there are white people who are fast (like the wide receiver Matt Jones) and black people who are slow. That doesn't change the fact that when looking at elite sprinters, black are overrepresented and this overrepresentation is definitely a result of blacks being born with a higher potential for extreme speed.
If you do the same thing with IQ and publish it in a book, like the Bell Curve, and show how certain ethnic groups are very overrepresented when it comes to having a high IQ whereas other ethnic groups tend to have a very low IQ then shit hits the fan and controversy goes rampant.
Because this type of research might shatter the marxist PC ideology completely, there are an extreme political aversion against the word "race" and everything that has to do with ethnic research.
The problem with relating IQ/intelligence to race is that how do you sample for it. With something like elite sprinters there is a very easy way to sample, events like the high school and college athletics, national and international track events and of course the Olympics are perfect for determining who are the top sprinters.
With IQ and intelligence just because most of the guys with PHds are white or Asian doesn't mean that they are the smart races. Questions like did every person have an equal opportunity in school? Did everyone have the same opportunity to get into an elite university? How does family life affect intellectual development? An endless number of questions can enter into the equation for intellectual development.
The questions may seem like socialist PC but there is no visible attributes for genius, there's no way to visibly filter out anyone when looking for intellect. For a pro basketball centre a mandatory visible attribute is height. A six foot basketball player is never going to be a centre on any NBA team. With sprinters the visible attributes are tall and slim so you know that a 5'4" 200 lbs person is never going to be an elite sprinter, even if he loses the weight he is still too short. However, with intelligence it could literally be anyone.
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With IQ and intelligence just because most of the guys with PHds are white or Asian doesn't mean that they are the smart races. Questions like did every person have an equal opportunity in school? Did everyone have the same opportunity to get into an elite university? How does family life affect intellectual development? An endless number of questions can enter into the equation for intellectual development. .
IQ is supposed to be independant of schooling & upbringing though, is it not?
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With IQ and intelligence just because most of the guys with PHds are white or Asian doesn't mean that they are the smart races. Questions like did every person have an equal opportunity in school? Did everyone have the same opportunity to get into an elite university? How does family life affect intellectual development? An endless number of questions can enter into the equation for intellectual development. .
IQ is supposed to be independant of schooling & upbringing though, is it not?
How do you determine if someone is born with a high IQ. Talks early, walks early, can read before preschool? Even if someone is born with a high IQ it still must be developed. Having good teachers and a good family life so that an individual can discover their strengths just like a natural born athlete still needs training to be the best.
It seems to me that it is far easier to discover the next great sprinter than the next great intellect.
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Ok, i am off attending to "E.D".
You're off attending to erectile dysfunction? Good luck with that!
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Ok, i am off attending to "E.D".
You're off attending to erectile dysfunction? Good luck with that!
Mmm, perhaps attending to the literary incontinence will be next on the agenda... ::)
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If not for comic relief, this thread would be as useless as a discussion of the seduction value of a 4000 USD jacket.
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If not for comic relief, this thread would be as useless as a discussion of the seduction value of a 4000 USD jacket.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:That's a valiant point! :popcorn: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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With IQ and intelligence just because most of the guys with PHds are white or Asian doesn't mean that they are the smart races. Questions like did every person have an equal opportunity in school? Did everyone have the same opportunity to get into an elite university? How does family life affect intellectual development? An endless number of questions can enter into the equation for intellectual development. .
IQ is supposed to be independant of schooling & upbringing though, is it not?
IQ might be independent of external influences but the measurement of it most certainly is not. That is why organisations such as Mensa use psychologists to assist in the assessment process. The goal being to attempt to reduce the bias introduced by cultural, social, language and educational assumptions.
For example, my girfriend is very bright - a treasure - her English is very good indeed but if she took the same assessment as I might, in English and designed for a UK audience, then she would do less well than a woman of similar intellectual capcity who was an English native speaker but otherwise equally well schooled and cultured. Same for me, give me a Russian language IQ assessment and I'd appear to be a maroon.
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To the bigots reading this thread:
As to DNA and difference well, what do you want to look at?
Are you so scared of people who have a differnet skin colour that you'd want to discriminate on that basis? The difference is tiny.
Are you so scared of other people that you'd discriminate upon the basis of religion? But religion is not racially based, it is a cultural choce and not controlled by our genetic makeup.
Are you so scared of people who have different beliefs than you that you'd discriminate against them? I have very different beliefs to the many bigots reading this but how would you discriminate against the different thinkers?
In the end racist bigots are left with only one tool - skin colour, a tiny, tiny difference between one person and another. The 'modern' racist such as our Nordic bigot try to claim they are afriad of issues other than skin colour but in truth that is EXACTLY what they are afraid of.
BTW, I choose the word 'afraid' knowingly. These people are afraid, they are scared, frightened little people and they are afraind of an insignificant issue - the amount of melanin in a person's skin. How silly is that?
I mean, Andreas, do you believe in religious freedom - the freedom to believe in whichever deity you choose (or none at all) - the freedom to worship that deity in whatever generally socially acceptable ways that the religion chooses?
If not then say so and be honest with yourself and us but then just which religions do you choose to excoriate?
In the end discrimination on the basis of arbitrary criteria is non-productive and, upon reflection, nonsensical. Discrimination is practiced by the slow of thought and/or those who would seek to take power from others. Hardly admirable traits (although being stupid is probably, in part, an inherited condition, eh Andrea? )
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An intelligence test sometimes shows a man how smart he would have been not to have taken it tiphat
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Hi Andreas-Norway;
As you have promoted race purity before, how do you think you can accomplish said policy without eeh "deleting" mixed 'race' children?
I don't think a handfull of mixed children will destroy the homogenity of Europe. What I'm sceptical to is the extreme amounts of non-white immigrants being let into Europe, combined with the low birth rates of ethnic europeans.
What about the amount of white emigration from Europe destroying the homogenity of other continents and cultures?
J
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Ok, i am off attending to "E.D".
You're off attending to erectile dysfunction? Good luck with that!
:laugh: :laugh:
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To the bigots reading this thread:
As to DNA and difference well, what do you want to look at?
Are you so scared of people who have a differnet skin colour that you'd want to discriminate on that basis? The difference is tiny.
Are you so scared of other people that you'd discriminate upon the basis of religion? But religion is not racially based, it is a cultural choce and not controlled by our genetic makeup.
Are you so scared of people who have different beliefs than you that you'd discriminate against them? I have very different beliefs to the many bigots reading this but how would you discriminate against the different thinkers?
In the end racist bigots are left with only one tool - skin colour, a tiny, tiny difference between one person and another. The 'modern' racist such as our Nordic bigot try to claim they are afriad of issues other than skin colour but in truth that is EXACTLY what they are afraid of.
BTW, I choose the word 'afraid' knowingly. These people are afraid, they are scared, frightened little people and they are afraind of an insignificant issue - the amount of melanin in a person's skin. How silly is that?
I'll leave this one for the bigots to answer, as I'm not one of them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigot
I mean, Andreas, do you believe in religious freedom - the freedom to believe in whichever deity you choose (or none at all) - the freedom to worship that deity in whatever generally socially acceptable ways that the religion chooses?
If not then say so and be honest with yourself and us but then just which religions do you choose to excoriate?
People can believe in little green trolls for all I care. That doesn't mean I would welcome a culture and religion into my neighbourhood that makes me feel like a complete stranger in my own country.
Protecting ones own culture, ethnic group and homogenity is not bigotry.
In the end discrimination on the basis of arbitrary criteria is non-productive and, upon reflection, nonsensical. Discrimination is practiced by the slow of thought and/or those who would seek to take power from others. Hardly admirable traits (although being stupid is probably, in part, an inherited condition, eh Andrea? )
If one were to believe that there are no other differences between human groups than skin, I'd agree, but this idea is absurd.
It is common evolutionary knowledge that organisms adapt to their enviroment. If the differene between the enviroment in Africa and in Europe had been very small, then one would expect very small differences in human DNA. That is not the case at all. Common sense and basic biology shows us that we can expect large genetic differences between (for example) Africans and Europeans.
Studies of IQ has also shown a very significant difference in IQ between different human populations, and this fact is so clear that it can only be trivialized by people with a left wing agenda. Even my psychology curriculum stated that IQ-testing of Americans show that blacks have a significantly lower IQ (about 12-15% lower) IQ than whites. It also stated that about 50% of all variation in IQ is hereditary and the other 50% is assumed to be due to enviroment.
Since IQ-tests of blacks in Africa show a difference of about 30% between blacks and whites, its safe to assume that this 15% gap between whites and blacks are hard to do anything about (as most of it is propably hereditary).
If you feel that areas of the USA such as the darkest areas of Baltimore or Detroit (or maybe Congo or Nigeria) seem like great places for you to live and raise a family, then go right ahead. Personally I prefer the "better safe than sorry" approach and help the third world in the third world rather than turning my own country into an ethnic experiment that can never be reversed.
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Hi Andreas-Norway;
As you have promoted race purity before, how do you think you can accomplish said policy without eeh "deleting" mixed 'race' children?
I don't think a handfull of mixed children will destroy the homogenity of Europe. What I'm sceptical to is the extreme amounts of non-white immigrants being let into Europe, combined with the low birth rates of ethnic europeans.
What about the amount of white emigration from Europe destroying the homogenity of other continents and cultures?
J
I belive that the natives of these countries are within their right to set their foot down and close their borders.
One example is Japan.
Japan is a very rich country, and it accepts an extremely low amount of non-asian immigrants. Of those immigrants they do accept most are Koreans. The small amount of Koreans living in Japan (about 2% of the population, I believe) has had several politicans being very concerned about the genetic future of Japan. Imagine if a Western country had closed its borders almost completely off and been paranoid about the genetic influence of a small minority from a neighbouring country.
The fact is that Mugabe and Mandela can kill of whites in record numbers without much fuss being raised about it. Japan can close its borders and send the immigrants to Europe without sanctions or boycotts.
.....But how DARE those dirty, filthy, Austrians elect Jörg Haider's nationalistic party into parliament!!??
This might cause a SLIGHT decrease in multi-culturalism in Europe, so lets just boycott the country and let the EU raise all sorts of hell (like threatening to expel Austria from the Union) in order to nullify the democratic choice if the Austrian people.
Am I the only one who sees the obvious discrimination, hypocracy and devaluation of whites as a group here????
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One example is Japan.
Japan is a very rich country, and it accepts an extremely low amount of non-asian immigrants. Of those immigrants they do accept most are Koreans. The small amount of Koreans living in Japan (about 2% of the population, I believe) has had several politicans being very concerned about the genetic future of Japan. Imagine if a Western country had closed its borders almost completely off and been paranoid about the genetic influence of a small minority from a neighbouring country.
This has absolutely nothing to do with bigotry; they are simply terrified that their women will discover the benefits of a normal-sized penis.
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Since Andreas-Norway so prominently displays the Norwegian flag and uses Norway in his nickname I feel obligated to say that his views on racial purity are not shared by most norwegians, and I hope all you friendly forum members not form any opinions about Norway or about norwegians in general based on his posts. TIA.
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Since Andreas-Norway so prominently displays the Norwegian flag and uses Norway in his nickname I feel obligated to say that his views on racial purity are not shared by most norwegians, and I hope all you friendly forum members not form any opinions about Norway or about norwegians in general based on his posts. TIA.
Welcome to the Foum. :)
Yes we understand that it is his opinion, and not country oriented, :chuckle:
Andre would be a moron if redeposited in the Congo, and the Congo person the same if put in Norway. A Congo person has the needed skills to live there, Andre would not. Hence the Congo person is more intelligent in his own environment.
There are too many factors that effect IQ, to actually compare one area of the world to another. And there are other factors that combined with intelligence (IQ) that spell out all the capabilities of a person, and define their true intelligence. :nod:
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One example is Japan.
Japan is a very rich country, and it accepts an extremely low amount of non-asian immigrants. Of those immigrants they do accept most are Koreans. The small amount of Koreans living in Japan (about 2% of the population, I believe) has had several politicans being very concerned about the genetic future of Japan. Imagine if a Western country had closed its borders almost completely off and been paranoid about the genetic influence of a small minority from a neighbouring country.
This has absolutely nothing to do with bigotry; they are simply terrified that their women will discover the benefits of a normal-sized penis.
Or put it in the other way; they are simply terrified that Western men will discover the benefits of the tight Asian female genitals .......................... (which many did already anyway)
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One example is Japan.
Japan is a very rich country, and it accepts an extremely low amount of non-asian immigrants. Of those immigrants they do accept most are Koreans. The small amount of Koreans living in Japan (about 2% of the population, I believe) has had several politicans being very concerned about the genetic future of Japan. Imagine if a Western country had closed its borders almost completely off and been paranoid about the genetic influence of a small minority from a neighbouring country.
This has absolutely nothing to do with bigotry; they are simply terrified that their women will discover the benefits of a normal-sized penis.
You are hell-bent on stearing this entire thread towards a penis related discussion, aren't you? :laugh:
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Since Andreas-Norway so prominently displays the Norwegian flag and uses Norway in his nickname I feel obligated to say that his views on racial purity are not shared by most norwegians, and I hope all you friendly forum members not form any opinions about Norway or about norwegians in general based on his posts. TIA.
1) I didn't find any other avatar that suited in the list provided by ruadventures (and I'm just too lazy to find one of my own :) ).
2) The nick "Andreas" was already taken (or I couldn't use it for some other reason, can't remember).
3) Most people outside of Norway know that our country is run by naive, social democrats and its not something to be proud of, nor something you need to advertise.
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Since Andreas-Norway so prominently displays the Norwegian flag and uses Norway in his nickname I feel obligated to say that his views on racial purity are not shared by most norwegians, and I hope all you friendly forum members not form any opinions about Norway or about norwegians in general based on his posts. TIA.
Welcome to the Foum. :)
Yes we understand that it is his opinion, and not country oriented, :chuckle:
Yeah, I'm not in a position to speak on behalf of my entire country......yet! :laugh:
Andre would be a moron if redeposited in the Congo, and the Congo person the same if put in Norway. A Congo person has the needed skills to live there, Andre would not. Hence the Congo person is more intelligent in his own environment.
YES!!! Just look at how the white man was unable to create wealthy, functioning and advanced societies in places like Australia and South Africa, while black people simply sky rocketed towards the nuclear age after the colonies in Tahiti were handed back to them.......oh, wait. ::)
(I do believe that handing back the STOLEN territories of Africa to the Negroes was the only morally correct thing to do, but the development of black societies after the de-colonisation has not exactly strengthen the claim that there are no IQ differences between the races, to put it mildly.)
There are too many factors that effect IQ, to actually compare one area of the world to another. And there are other factors that combined with intelligence (IQ) that spell out all the capabilities of a person, and define their true intelligence. :nod:
What a perfectly politically correct thing to say! The fact that the entire human history, vast amounts of studies (and meta studies) plus biological knowledge all point to a different answer should not persuade you from blind obiedience towards the "religion" of political correctness!
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To the bigots reading this thread:
As to DNA and difference well, what do you want to look at?
Are you so scared of people who have a differnet skin colour that you'd want to discriminate on that basis? The difference is tiny.
Are you so scared of other people that you'd discriminate upon the basis of religion? But religion is not racially based, it is a cultural choce and not controlled by our genetic makeup.
Are you so scared of people who have different beliefs than you that you'd discriminate against them? I have very different beliefs to the many bigots reading this but how would you discriminate against the different thinkers?
As I'm sure you consider me to be one of the bigots reading this thread; consider this:
I am not "scared" of people who have different skin color at all. I simply find them generally unattractive, sexually unappealing, and usually downright ugly. I wouldn't want to breed with them, preferring any possible offspring to look like myself.
Religion is completely unimportant to me, unless of course someone wants to cut off my head over it. Then be prepared to see me at my worst. This is the main reason I keep my guns clean, oiled, and loaded.
By saying "different beliefs", I'm assuming you are referring to Conservative vs Progressive liberal. My personal thought is that liberalism is a mental disorder, and I do not choose to associate with crazy people.
Andrew,
I must say to you; name calling is not your strong suit.
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Hi Andreas-Norway;
As you have promoted race purity before, how do you think you can accomplish said policy without eeh "deleting" mixed 'race' children?
I don't think a handfull of mixed children will destroy the homogenity of Europe. What I'm sceptical to is the extreme amounts of non-white immigrants being let into Europe, combined with the low birth rates of ethnic europeans.
What about the amount of white emigration from Europe destroying the homogenity of other continents and cultures?
J
I belive that the natives of these countries are within their right to set their foot down and close their borders.
One example is Japan.
Japan is a very rich country, and it accepts an extremely low amount of non-asian immigrants. Of those immigrants they do accept most are Koreans. The small amount of Koreans living in Japan (about 2% of the population, I believe) has had several politicans being very concerned about the genetic future of Japan. Imagine if a Western country had closed its borders almost completely off and been paranoid about the genetic influence of a small minority from a neighbouring country.
The fact is that Mugabe and Mandela can kill of whites in record numbers without much fuss being raised about it. Japan can close its borders and send the immigrants to Europe without sanctions or boycotts.
.....But how DARE those dirty, filthy, Austrians elect Jörg Haider's nationalistic party into parliament!!??
This might cause a SLIGHT decrease in multi-culturalism in Europe, so lets just boycott the country and let the EU raise all sorts of hell (like threatening to expel Austria from the Union) in order to nullify the democratic choice if the Austrian people.
Am I the only one who sees the obvious discrimination, hypocracy and devaluation of whites as a group here????
Japan's indigineous culture has not been ruined by European immigration whatsoever.
How about...
I know...
Australia and New Zealand? Africa? South America?
Say we kicked out every African and Asian out of Europe and we brought back every settler of European descent back from outisde of Europe - thats a good 10 million Norwegian Americans for a start. 8)
As for Mugabe - do you not think he is a product of British racial supremacy in Africa - this is what happens when you lose a civil war to a bunch of psychopaths? Ian Smith and his UDI tried to uphold a vicious, racist regime whilst trampling over the native, indigineous population (does this sound familiar?) they lost a war and the present state of Zimbabwe/Rhodesia is of what we have now - lets not kid ourselves that Mugabe isn't anything other than a product of war and a product of disgusting racist colonialism.
As for Mandela - killing whites? You mean during the times when he had no political voice whatsoever? no rights? no vote? no say? A dog had more rights than him during 1960s apartheid South Africa!
So how do you expect his voice to be heard? By fighting the people who upheld the system? Do you think that is understandable? The upholders of apartheid happened to be white - Mandela is not a racist and neither was the ANC who had white members like Braam Fischer, Breyten Breytenbach, Joe Slovo etc. To say Mandela went around killing 'whites' rather than the purveyors of apartheid is absurd.
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Since Andreas-Norway so prominently displays the Norwegian flag and uses Norway in his nickname I feel obligated to say that his views on racial purity are not shared by most norwegians, and I hope all you friendly forum members not form any opinions about Norway or about norwegians in general based on his posts. TIA.
Welcome to the Foum. :)
Yes we understand that it is his opinion, and not country oriented, :chuckle:
Yeah, I'm not in a position to speak on behalf of my entire country......yet! :laugh:
Andre would be a moron if redeposited in the Congo, and the Congo person the same if put in Norway. A Congo person has the needed skills to live there, Andre would not. Hence the Congo person is more intelligent in his own environment.
YES!!! Just look at how the white man was unable to create wealthy, functioning and advanced societies in places like Australia and South Africa, while black people simply sky rocketed towards the nuclear age after the colonies in Tahiti were handed back to them.......oh, wait. ::)
(I do believe that handing back the STOLEN territories of Africa to the Negroes was the only morally correct thing to do, but the development of black societies after the de-colonisation has not exactly strengthen the claim that there are no IQ differences between the races, to put it mildly.)
There are too many factors that effect IQ, to actually compare one area of the world to another. And there are other factors that combined with intelligence (IQ) that spell out all the capabilities of a person, and define their true intelligence. :nod:
What a perfectly politically correct thing to say! The fact that the entire human history, vast amounts of studies (and meta studies) plus biological knowledge all point to a different answer should not persuade you from blind obiedience towards the "religion" of political correctness!
Now who says, that the white man, who has produced such a wonderfull advance society, vs those that live a more simpler life are more intelligent. It could be that those who live a more simple life are actually more intelligent then those who do not. Could be why so many here, in my city will flee to that more simple life at a cottage, or park, this weekend. rather then stay in the advanced society we call home. :chuckle: But then we must be less intelligent since we seek both in our lives. :D
Not political correctness, for my statement. More then your IQ is required for anything you do to be accomplished in this life. A man with a high IQ, could learn everything he needs to be a brain surgeon, but without the dexterity, or other skills required, to use that knowledge, would be considered a incompetent moron for even attempting it. That man living in the wilds of the Congo, knows everything he needs to to survive and prosper, and I would consider him intelligent for that. tiphat But he has no need of nuclear power either for that simple life he prefers to live. That mechanic who fixes your car, may actually be more intelligent then you, he just choose a job he prefers and likes to do, rather then one his IQ would
indicate he could do.
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Since Andreas-Norway so prominently displays the Norwegian flag and uses Norway in his nickname I feel obligated to say that his views on racial purity are not shared by most norwegians, and I hope all you friendly forum members not form any opinions about Norway or about norwegians in general based on his posts. TIA.
Welcome to the Foum. :)
Yes we understand that it is his opinion, and not country oriented, :chuckle:
Yeah, I'm not in a position to speak on behalf of my entire country......yet! :laugh:
Andre would be a moron if redeposited in the Congo, and the Congo person the same if put in Norway. A Congo person has the needed skills to live there, Andre would not. Hence the Congo person is more intelligent in his own environment.
YES!!! Just look at how the white man was unable to create wealthy, functioning and advanced societies in places like Australia and South Africa, while black people simply sky rocketed towards the nuclear age after the colonies in Tahiti were handed back to them.......oh, wait. ::)
(I do believe that handing back the STOLEN territories of Africa to the Negroes was the only morally correct thing to do, but the development of black societies after the de-colonisation has not exactly strengthen the claim that there are no IQ differences between the races, to put it mildly.)
There are too many factors that effect IQ, to actually compare one area of the world to another. And there are other factors that combined with intelligence (IQ) that spell out all the capabilities of a person, and define their true intelligence. :nod:
What a perfectly politically correct thing to say! The fact that the entire human history, vast amounts of studies (and meta studies) plus biological knowledge all point to a different answer should not persuade you from blind obiedience towards the "religion" of political correctness!
Now who says, that the white man, who has produced such a wonderfull advance society, vs those that live a more simpler life are more intelligent. It could be that those who live a more simple life are actually more intelligent then those who do not. Could be why so many here, in my city will flee to that more simple life at a cottage, or park, this weekend. rather then stay in the advanced society we call home. :chuckle: But then we must be less intelligent since we seek both in our lives. :D
Not political correctness, for my statement. More then your IQ is required for anything you do to be accomplished in this life. A man with a high IQ, could learn everything he needs to be a brain surgeon, but without the dexterity, or other skills required, to use that knowledge, would be considered a incompetent moron for even attempting it. That man living in the wilds of the Congo, knows everything he needs to to survive and prosper, and I would consider him intelligent for that. tiphat But he has no need of nuclear power either for that simple life he prefers to live. That mechanic who fixes your car, may actually be more intelligent then you, he just choose a job he prefers and likes to do, rather then one his IQ would
indicate he could do.
Good post fireeater. I will go even one better. If it wasn't for the natives of the Americas and the Africas - the white man wouldn't have survived five years in their new homes - it was the native Americans who helped feed the new settlers and helped them farm their new crops and tend their cattle - but of course - according to Andreas - being white should have been enough for the pilgrims to survive and probably teach the Indians how to survive in their land! :laugh:
Same with the Welsh in Patagonia - they were dying like flies until the local Indians helped them plane their crops and irrigate their land. And it could be said for the French in Canada, the British in Australia etc etc - they were helped massively by the local people on how to survive in their new homes - and how did the native people get repaid with their kindness?By a hail of bullets!
I love it when the likes of Andreas try to claim the achievements of others because they share a skin pigmentation with them? Tell me oh white man with the high IQ - what have you ever invented eh? :party0011:
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bejarano Thanks
One correction, with those native Indians here they did help the settlers quite a bit, including showing us that Maple syrup we like so much here. :party0031: But not the same history as in the USA with them. Most bullets that hit them, would have been fired by the opposing force, when the British and French were at it. They usually joined in one side or the other, usually attacking from the flank, while the other two stood up face to face, in the usual manner of that time. :chuckle: They were usually allies of one side or the other, sometimes different tribes, for different sides. French were in Quebec, British in Ontario. When the Americans tried it, guess who was there as well. ;D
There are times when they only way I know I am on reservation land here, is by looking at the map. Have no clue from looking around. Some of those helpless people even lease land so the advance white man can build cottages on them. :laugh: Now that Niagara Falls, New York, side of the US, that very tall casino is owned by what tribe again. :chuckle:
Does not matter what race you are talking about , you have your dumbs one, and your intelligent ones in each. tiphat
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Since Andreas-Norway so prominently displays the Norwegian flag and uses Norway in his nickname I feel obligated to say that his views on racial purity are not shared by most norwegians, and I hope all you friendly forum members not form any opinions about Norway or about norwegians in general based on his posts. TIA.
1) I didn't find any other avatar that suited in the list provided by ruadventures (and I'm just too lazy to find one of my own :) ).
2) The nick "Andreas" was already taken (or I couldn't use it for some other reason, can't remember).
3) Most people outside of Norway know that our country is run by naive, social democrats and its not something to be proud of, nor something you need to advertise.
Andreas for Chieftain er ah um Prime Minister or ah um better yet King! :king:
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We have moved far beyond the intent of this topic now.
As we are descending into the realms of racial supremacy and the tightness or otherwise of female genitalia, its probably time this topic was put to bed. :coffeeread: