Russian, Ukrainian & FSU Information & Manosphere Discussion Forums
Dating & Marriage With Women From Russia, Ukraine, Belarus & FSU => Dating in the FSU and Other Countries => Topic started by: andrewfi on October 01, 2015, 04:23:02 AM
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As we know, being Russian is not just a matter of where one is born. Of course, as Putin notes, the voluntary ending of the Soviet Union left many millions of Russians now stranded in places not Russia.
Kazakhstan has many who consider themselves Russian and quite many of them look more asiatic than slavic.
Being Russian is at least in part a cultural thing. One can not be American in the same way that one can be Russian. I guess that quite a few English people might recognise something akin to what we call Russian Soul. That which makes a Russian Russian, rather than just someone who happens to have a Russian passport is the same kind of cultural experience and lineage that makes the Englishman English.
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As we know, being Russian is not just a matter of where one is born. Of course, as Putin notes, the voluntary ending of the Soviet Union left many millions of Russians now stranded in places not Russia.
Kazakhstan has many who consider themselves Russian and quite many of them look more asiatic than slavic.
Being Russian is at least in part a cultural thing. One can not be American in the same way that one can be Russian. I guess that quite a few English people might recognise something akin to what we call Russian Soul. That which makes a Russian Russian, rather than just someone who happens to have a Russian passport is the same kind of cultural experience and lineage that makes the Englishman English.
Great wording :) (And, agreed 100% ;) )
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As we know, being Russian is not just a matter of where one is born. Of course, as Putin notes, the voluntary ending of the Soviet Union left many millions of Russians now stranded in places not Russia.
Kazakhstan has many who consider themselves Russian and quite many of them look more asiatic than slavic.
Being Russian is at least in part a cultural thing. One can not be American in the same way that one can be Russian. I guess that quite a few English people might recognise something akin to what we call Russian Soul. That which makes a Russian Russian, rather than just someone who happens to have a Russian passport is the same kind of cultural experience and lineage that makes the Englishman English.
Being Russian is not a part of a cultural thing...it is being a Russian who was born in Kazakhstan from Russian parents who moved to Kazakhstan because the USSR decided this is where her family would go to work for the better meant of the motherland....just saying.
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As we know, being Russian is not just a matter of where one is born. Of course, as Putin notes, the voluntary ending of the Soviet Union left many millions of Russians now stranded in places not Russia.
Kazakhstan has many who consider themselves Russian and quite many of them look more asiatic than slavic.
Being Russian is at least in part a cultural thing. One can not be American in the same way that one can be Russian. I guess that quite a few English people might recognise something akin to what we call Russian Soul. That which makes a Russian Russian, rather than just someone who happens to have a Russian passport is the same kind of cultural experience and lineage that makes the Englishman English.
Great wording :) (And, agreed 100% ;) )
Why did you agree with this post 100% ?
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Being Russian is not a part of a cultural thing...it is being a Russian who was born in Kazakhstan from Russian parents who moved to Kazakhstan because the USSR decided this is where her family would go to work for the better meant of the motherland....just saying.
Putin commented in his US interview that the break up of the USSR left 25 million Russians living outside the Russian Federation. My wife, like yours was was affected in this way. She was a "military brat" who lived where her father's orders took him, first in East Germany, later in Ukraine. Both her parents were Russian. She identifies herself as Russian, though she has never lived there.
Her brothers eldest daughter identifies herself as Ukrainian even though she is entirely from Russian stock. Nationality is a mixture of genetics and culture. I have worked with Azeri's who look Turkish but regard themselves as ethnically Russian. There are people in New England who regard themselves as Irish, though their genetic links to celtic stock are weak or even non existent.
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Being Russian is not a part of a cultural thing...it is being a Russian who was born in Kazakhstan from Russian parents who moved to Kazakhstan because the USSR decided this is where her family would go to work for the better meant of the motherland....just saying.
Putin commented in his US interview that the break up of the USSR left 25 million Russians living outside the Russian Federation. My wife, like yours was was affected in this way. She was a "military brat" who lived where her father's orders took him, first in East Germany, later in Ukraine. Both her parents were Russian. She identifies herself as Russian, though she has never lived there.
Her brothers eldest daughter identifies herself as Ukrainian even though she is entirely from Russian stock. Nationality is a mixture of genetics and culture. I have worked with Azeri's who look Turkish but regard themselves as ethnically Russian. There are people in New England who regard themselves as Irish, though their genetic links to celtic stock are weak or even non existent.
My wife is one who does not like to discuss much about her past life in Kazakhstan under the former USSR rule as a young girl, she will only say at times standing in long lines at the market for the chance of a loaf of bread or maybe toilet paper? Guess is it the true Russian way to not complain...I have nothing but love and respect for her.
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Being Russian is not a part of a cultural thing...it is being a Russian who was born in Kazakhstan from Russian parents who moved to Kazakhstan because the USSR decided this is where her family would go to work for the better meant of the motherland....just saying.
Putin commented in his US interview that the break up of the USSR left 25 million Russians living outside the Russian Federation. My wife, like yours was was affected in this way. She was a "military brat" who lived where her father's orders took him, first in East Germany, later in Ukraine. Both her parents were Russian. She identifies herself as Russian, though she has never lived there.
Her brothers eldest daughter identifies herself as Ukrainian even though she is entirely from Russian stock. Nationality is a mixture of genetics and culture. I have worked with Azeri's who look Turkish but regard themselves as ethnically Russian. There are people in New England who regard themselves as Irish, though their genetic links to celtic stock are weak or even non existent.
Our son has his 6 month check up next week...not sure if he could have a better mother! my family and friends agree.
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Being Russian is not a part of a cultural thing...it is being a Russian who was born in Kazakhstan from Russian parents who moved to Kazakhstan because the USSR decided this is where her family would go to work for the better meant of the motherland....just saying.
Putin commented in his US interview that the break up of the USSR left 25 million Russians living outside the Russian Federation. My wife, like yours was was affected in this way. She was a "military brat" who lived where her father's orders took him, first in East Germany, later in Ukraine. Both her parents were Russian. She identifies herself as Russian, though she has never lived there.
Her brothers eldest daughter identifies herself as Ukrainian even though she is entirely from Russian stock. Nationality is a mixture of genetics and culture. I have worked with Azeri's who look Turkish but regard themselves as ethnically Russian. There are people in New England who regard themselves as Irish, though their genetic links to celtic stock are weak or even non existent.
My wife is one who does not like to discuss much about her past life in Kazakhstan under the former USSR rule as a young girl, she will only say at times standing in long lines at the market for the chance of a loaf of bread or maybe toilet paper? Guess is it the true Russian way to not complain...I have nothing but love and respect for her.
Precisely my recollections of living in a former Soviet Bloc country. Unfortunately, the bottom line comes to this:
The current president's actions and mentality only bring the country in question closer to this rather than further away.
Not that I defend my own president's communist mentality.
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I suppose she probably doesn't like to speak of the extreme caution one had to exercise in public regarding speaking out against the government either. Not knowing who was an informant and all....
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I suppose she probably doesn't like to speak of the extreme caution one had to exercise in public regarding speaking out against the government either. Not knowing who was an informant and all....
I doubt she is old enough to remember that time.
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I doubt she is old enough to remember that time.
:ROFL:
The likes of Pussy Riot prove that you aren't on the page...
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I doubt she is old enough to remember that time.
:ROFL:
The likes of Pussy Riot prove that you aren't on the page...
Read it again and elaborate?
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I suppose she probably doesn't like to speak of the extreme caution one had to exercise in public regarding speaking out against the government either. Not knowing who was an informant and all....
I doubt she is old enough to remember that time.
She remebers clearly as a young girl having to wear a red scarf everyday to school,how the military personal was always well feed but her family struggled just have the basic's to survive and how her parents worked harsh hours for little pay with no choice...and taking turns in market lines with her sister,mother.
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She remebers clearly as a young girl having to wear a red scarf everyday to school,how the military personal was always well feed but her family struggled just have the basic's to survive and how her parents worked harsh hours for little pay with no choice...and taking turns in market lines with her sister,mother.
We all know the USSR it was hard times back then. Thats why it collapsed in 1990/1991. Not sure what that had to do with the gov't though, as nobody back then was rich, after the collaps, thats when Oligarch became present.
My own parents also had it rough back then and they lived in Netherlands, not the USSR.
Mark.
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JustMD, the chances are that she is remembering the times AFTER the Soviet Union closed down. Things were really shitty until the end of the 20th century and certainly worse than before the end of the SU.
Yes, there was queuing for stuff, but stuff there was (usually). The reason for queues was more that the stuff was the right stuff at the wrong time. That's why folks carried little net bags all the time. Today you might see pork on sale, tomorrow soap. That was a failing of central planning.
After the end of the Soviet Union there were times when there was nothing. The pics you see of empty shelves? Very often they were from the early years of independence for the countries that had been part of the Soviet Union.
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We all know the USSR it was hard times back then. Thats why it collapsed in 1990/1991. Not sure what that had to do with the gov't though, as nobody back then was rich, after the collaps, thats when Oligarch became present.
Mark.
Hi Markje..
From 1989 to 92 Cyprus Banks received suitcases of cash from citizens of the Soviet Union.
The aparchniks did very well from being more equal than others..!)
.
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As we know, being Russian is not just a matter of where one is born. Of course, as Putin notes, the voluntary ending of the Soviet Union left many millions of Russians now stranded in places not Russia.
Kazakhstan has many who consider themselves Russian and quite many of them look more asiatic than slavic.
Being Russian is at least in part a cultural thing. One can not be American in the same way that one can be Russian. I guess that quite a few English people might recognise something akin to what we call Russian Soul. That which makes a Russian Russian, rather than just someone who happens to have a Russian passport is the same kind of cultural experience and lineage that makes the Englishman English.
Great wording :) (And, agreed 100% ;) )
Why did you agree with this post 100% ?
Why are you asking? And how could you possibly participate in the discussion, besides sharing stories of your significant other waiting in line for toilet paper?
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I suppose she probably doesn't like to speak of the extreme caution one had to exercise in public regarding speaking out against the government either. Not knowing who was an informant and all....
I doubt she is old enough to remember that time.
She remebers clearly as a young girl having to wear a red scarf everyday to school,how the military personal was always well feed but her family struggled just have the basic's to survive and how her parents worked harsh hours for little pay with no choice...and taking turns in market lines with her sister,mother.
Suggest her she writes a memoir, i bet it would be a best seller :)
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Read it again and elaborate?
I believe you may have understood... The Former Soviet Union is being re invented
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I suppose she probably doesn't like to speak of the extreme caution one had to exercise in public regarding speaking out against the government either. Not knowing who was an informant and all....
I doubt she is old enough to remember that time.
I have a better idea for a best seller Volshe. You can make a photo calendar of yourself. We can call it twelve months with Stefanovich. Shall we provide the audience with an illustration?
Maybe you should stop picking on members of the forum. Justmd just happens to be a nice guy that found true happiness.
She remebers clearly as a young girl having to wear a red scarf everyday to school,how the military personal was always well feed but her family struggled just have the basic's to survive and how her parents worked harsh hours for little pay with no choice...and taking turns in market lines with her sister,mother.
Suggest her she writes a memoir, i bet it would be a best seller :)
I have a better idea for a best seller Volshe. You can make a photo calendar of yourself. We can call it twelve months with Stefanovich. Shall we provide the audience with an illustration?
Maybe you should stop picking on members of the forum. Justmd just happens to be a nice guy that found true happiness.
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I suppose she probably doesn't like to speak of the extreme caution one had to exercise in public regarding speaking out against the government either. Not knowing who was an informant and all....
I doubt she is old enough to remember that time.
I have a better idea for a best seller Volshe. You can make a photo calendar of yourself. We can call it twelve months with Stefanovich. Shall we provide the audience with an illustration?
Maybe you should stop picking on members of the forum. Justmd just happens to be a nice guy that found true happiness.
She remebers clearly as a young girl having to wear a red scarf everyday to school,how the military personal was always well feed but her family struggled just have the basic's to survive and how her parents worked harsh hours for little pay with no choice...and taking turns in market lines with her sister,mother.
Suggest her she writes a memoir, i bet it would be a best seller :)
I have a better idea for a best seller Volshe. You can make a photo calendar of yourself. We can call it twelve months with Stefanovich. Shall we provide the audience with an illustration?
Maybe you should stop picking on members of the forum. Justmd just happens to be a nice guy that found true happiness.
Volshe, Omega1982 and Justmd have valid points. If you want to include only those who have personal experience of Russia/FSU (and satellites) past than that would include you and Guppy Captain. Andrew has no personal experience, not even a significant other so he literally, like myself, has no personal experience with Russia/FSU's past. Manny, Moby, leslied and Markje are all connected to Russia/FSU only by wives or significant others. Again they can't speak from personal experience about Russia/FSU's past.
So by all means lets restrict the conversation to just those with personal experience of Russia/FSU's past. Everyone will leave you and GuppyCaptain alone to speak. Perhaps Orchid will drop by, or has it been decided she's not from Russia or the FSU (discussion from another thread)?
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As we know, being Russian is not just a matter of where one is born. Of course, as Putin notes, the voluntary ending of the Soviet Union left many millions of Russians now stranded in places not Russia.
Kazakhstan has many who consider themselves Russian and quite many of them look more asiatic than slavic.
Being Russian is at least in part a cultural thing. One can not be American in the same way that one can be Russian. I guess that quite a few English people might recognise something akin to what we call Russian Soul. That which makes a Russian Russian, rather than just someone who happens to have a Russian passport is the same kind of cultural experience and lineage that makes the Englishman English.
Great wording :) (And, agreed 100% ;) )
Why did you agree with this post 100% ?
Why are you asking? And how could you possibly participate in the discussion, besides sharing stories of your significant other waiting in line for toilet paper?
My wife and I have a very close personal relationship that we built together,she shares many stories of her past life only when I ask....wrote this while trying to get our 5 month old son to sleep....and we have 6 rolls of toilet paper in our bathroom
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JustMD, the chances are that she is remembering the times AFTER the Soviet Union closed down. Things were really shitty until the end of the 20th century and certainly worse than before the end of the SU.
Yes, there was queuing for stuff, but stuff there was (usually). The reason for queues was more that the stuff was the right stuff at the wrong time. That's why folks carried little net bags all the time. Today you might see pork on sale, tomorrow soap. That was a failing of central planning.
After the end of the Soviet Union there were times when there was nothing. The pics you see of empty shelves? Very often they were from the early years of independence for the countries that had been part of the Soviet Union.
No she remembers her life DURING and after the Soviet Union closed down.
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No she remembers her life DURING and after the Soviet Union closed down.
Even if she does, she can't remember what Russia was like during the real communist times.
Try watching a movie like 'heart of dog' to get a small feel of what it was truly like.
I have an english-subtitled copy.
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JustMD, in that case I doubt she is the mother of your child. ;)
She'd be in perimenopause by now. :laugh:
Memories are funny things. Usually not to be trusted. For example, how could a kid of pre-school age and just after have been aware enough of the world to understand that some kids were slightly, just slightly, heavier than her and the reason was because they got more food at home due to their parents' work?
However, after the Soviet Union closed shop there were plenty of people who DID go hungry. The military would have been likely slightly better fed and she'd have been old enough to understand if her parents talked about this stuff. But it'd be unlikely to have been HER memories - it was what she was told.
Do you honestly think, as a kid, that she would have been politically aware enough to understand that there was a Soviet Union and that it had just come to an end? REALLY?
Before you get all snippy with me and start ranting about me calling your darling wife a liar, let me reassure you, I am not. But, just as you have false recall about matters you don't understand (your little problem understanding what TomT writes is a decent example) so too do the rest of us. it is normal and that goes double for ankle biters who have yet to even learn the difference between the real world and the world of the imagination.
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Well my wife CERTAINLY remembers life in the Soviet union - she grew up in it ! (She is now 40's).
Oddly enough she remembers that times were very good. Her father was a senior officer in the Red Army. The whole family were members of the Communist Party. She attended special schools. Teachers called her by her full Patronymic. the family went on holiday twice a year. Basically she wanted for nothing...
When the Soviet Union collapsed, times changed. Life was much harder, especially after her father retired. There were fewer new things, no holidays at health spars. Life was still OK though, they had a large apartment and a dacha. Food not flowers were grown at the dacha though. As time went on though life got tougher.
My wife talks about times around the great patriotic war as if she has personal memory of them. Of course she does not but she had talked about these times extensively with her father, mother and older relatives. This of course is "oral history" I think Justmd's wife is talking in a similar way. No need to denigrate this as invention. My father told me of his personal experiences in WW11. If asked I can talk about them. You won't find any such tales in history books...
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You make my point Les. Your wife is in her 40's!
She was already in her mid to late teens when the Soviet Union shut up shop. I'd be very surprised if she was NOT able to recall what was going on, she was among the youngest part of the generation for whom the social contract was broken, many of the slightly older ones never recovered fully, lives blighted even today.
But also, she is telling you the stuff that was true for most folks at the time. Friends of mine of that age recall the Soviet times with fondness because, for most people, quality of life was good. One did not have to work too hard, there was food, housing, health care, education and the opportunity for advancement if one wanted it. Folks remembered being able to take time out to go fishing, to enjoy the countryside with friends, shared cultural activities.
For most the shitty stuff came later, after society broke down. Albeit that during the final stages things were no longer as they had been in the mid 80's and earlier, but they still were not shitty, just not as good.
Funny thing though, our memories get programmed. We see that all the time - there's a good reason why eye witnesses are, as any copper will tell you, about the worst kind of witness.
I was not suggesting Justmd's wife invented anything. Please read what I wrote and compare to what you just wrote about yourself.
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Time for the other side of the coin..
All too many Russians looked down their noses at 'Russians' who aren't 'true Russians' ..By this this meant Baltic State and Southern Republic 'Russians' who hadn't been born in Russia and never been there.
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My wife is in her late 50s (dont let her know I said this!). She has nothing but good memories of Soviet time.
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My wife is in her late 50s (dont let her know I said this!). She has nothing but good memories of Soviet time.
Here's the hidden secret. The one that you're not supposed to know about!
For most people, most of the time, life in the Soviet Union was not at all bad. For almost everyone their lives were significantly better than their parents or grandparents. That improvement is what is important - that improvement (or lack thereof) is why the Mail Order Bride Business sprang up and later died out!
There was not the western concentration upon 'stuff'.
The people who ended up in 'Gulags' were there because they deserved to be there. People had very little sympathy for them.
Most people are interested in HOME, FAMILY, WORK - not much else.
Of course there is a tendency to see the past through rose coloured spectacles, but that's universal.
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Memory is fickle. Bad stuff gets filtered often. What's left are 'the good old days'.
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Memory is fickle. Bad stuff gets filtered often. What's left are 'the good old days'.
Andrew and Dogsoldier,
You should feel lucky you did not make your comments regarding my wife’s comments about Soviet times.
Let’s just say you would not like to go where she suggested.
I believe she also made reference to your lack of intelligence.
nuff said.
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Memory is fickle. Bad stuff gets filtered often. What's left are 'the good old days'.
Andrew and Dogsoldier,
You should feel lucky you did not make your comments regarding my wife’s comments about Soviet times.
Let’s just say you would not like to go where she suggested.
I believe she also made reference to your lack of intelligence.
nuff said.
Perhaps your good lady did not quite understand what I was referring to?
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Memory is fickle. Bad stuff gets filtered often. What's left are 'the good old days'.
Andrew and Dogsoldier,
You should feel lucky you did not make your comments regarding my wife’s comments about Soviet times.
Let’s just say you would not like to go where she suggested.
I believe she also made reference to your lack of intelligence.
nuff said.
Perhaps your good lady did not quite understand what I was referring to?
What you said was not in very good taste. My wife remembers not only "the good old days" but also the "bad old days".
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Memory is fickle. Bad stuff gets filtered often. What's left are 'the good old days'.
Andrew and Dogsoldier,
You should feel lucky you did not make your comments regarding my wife’s comments about Soviet times.
Let’s just say you would not like to go where she suggested.
I believe she also made reference to your lack of intelligence.
nuff said.
Perhaps your good lady did not quite understand what I was referring to?
What you said was not in very good taste. My wife remembers not only "the good old days" but also the "bad old days".
I really don't get why your wife would have a problem. It wasn't aimed at her or her recollections. My comment was a general one expressing quite a well accepted truism.
People usually talk about 'the good old days' not 'the bad old days'.
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Having the Communist Party of the Old Soviet Union allowed to be the only political party to field candidates during elections is a manifestation not only of crudity but also tyranny. Even a 7 year old Russian would succeed in arguing that 'the commissars do not allow any party to run except CPSU because they know they will lose'. Any comment like this during those days would surely merit exile to Siberia even for a 12 year old. :saint: Yes, being Russian is not a matter of where you're born but being Russian is not being CPSU, the most ruthless political party in the history of Russia.
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Yankee, when making up a story take care to be consistent.
Telling us that your wife has nothing but good memories is not consistent with remembering bad times as well as good when the time context is the same.
Do you want to have a do over and tell us the truth this time?
There is no earthly reason why your wife should be upset about what was written by Dogsoldier or I given what you reported to us.
Consistency is the mark of an honest man.
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For most people, most of the time, life in the Soviet Union was not at all bad. For almost everyone their lives were significantly better than their parents or grandparents.
V would regale how awful the last five years of the FSU were ..the queuing because it must be something worth queuing for.
That improvement is what is important - that improvement (or lack thereof) is why the Mail Order Bride Business sprang up and later died out!
it sprang up just as much because of a broadening of choice and the certain 'something' that those who have shared lives with a FSU partner experience ... the demand moved away from marriage brokers and to international dating sites.
There was not the western concentration upon 'stuff'.
You forgot the craze for Levi jeans ?..That smoking western cigarette brands suggested 'status' ?
The people who ended up in 'Gulags' were there because they deserved to be there.
are you being serious - hardly 'honest' ...
People had very little sympathy for them.
Most people are interested in HOME, FAMILY, WORK - not much else.
Keeping their heads down - more like - the apathy desired by the regime
Of course there is a tendency to see the past through rose coloured spectacles, but that's universal.
Suggest members pick up 'One day in the life of Ivan Denisovich' - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn... Then we can discuss andrewfi's contentions
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Yankee, when making up a story take care to be consistent.
Telling us that your wife has nothing but good memories is not consistent with remembering bad times as well as good when the time context is the same.
Do you want to have a do over and tell us the truth this time?
There is no earthly reason why your wife should be upset about what was written by Dogsoldier or I given what you reported to us.
Consistency is the mark of an honest man.
Sorry boys, my wife stands by what she said. She does not need to “prove anything” to either one of you gentlemen.
I will repeat for you “She has nothing but good memories of Soviet time.”
Now what part of that do you disagree with?
For both of you to disagree with her is laughable.
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Consistency is the mark of an honest man.
I disagree. We remember things differently at times. I can look back at times of my life with nostalgia like childhood and then later remember some dark event that happened then that came and went. It doesn't mean I am being dishonest by presenting that time as wonderful and happy. I imagine during the Soviet era there were people who were quite content with the system. Just as veterans are about the military at the Foreign Legion (I bet didn't feel that way during boot camp). Now in the rough and tumble world of capitalism these same people long for the time when things were simpler and more "secure" and forget about the little things that weren't so nice.
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Just like how pro-capitalists were forced to fit in during Stalin, so must communists endeavor to fit in during these days. A pro-capitalist has no recourse under Stalin but a communist has recourse during these days. Russian Bill of Rights: right to association, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom to vote, non-discrimination based on political belief, non-discrimination based on sexual orientation, freedom from frisking, freedom not to be indicted if evidence was obtained without warrant, and so many many rights and guarantees not afforded to them by Stalin. If the people do not want to vote for your party you must be satisfied you can field communist candidates under the new system. And now you say...etc. etc. :)
When a person can eat only once or twice a day and still votes for Putin, then there must really be something wrong with communism. As the Lord Prayer says, " ..give us this DAY our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses,..." From my 22 year old nephew: "Why would I go Stalin when I go hungry, when it was Stalin's god who made me hungry" and the hungrier I get when he gets into power..." True and logical!
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Consistency is the mark of an honest man.
I disagree. We remember things differently at times. I can look back at times of my life with nostalgia like childhood and then later remember some dark event that happened then that came and went. It doesn't mean I am being dishonest by presenting that time as wonderful and happy. I imagine during the Soviet era there were people who were quite content with the system. Just as veterans are about the military at the Foreign Legion (I bet didn't feel that way during boot camp). Now in the rough and tumble world of capitalism these same people long for the time when things were simpler and more "secure" and forget about the little things that weren't so nice.
I was not referring to what any other person was writing except Yankee. Yankee made two claims reporting his wife's situation that were not consistent and that could not both exist, truthfully, in the same context.
An honest man can, and will, be consistent in what he says over a period of decades because he does not have to remember his story. Each time it comes from his lips fresh, and yet the same as before.
One can not at the same time 'remember only good things' and also 'remember good and bad' when referring to the same period of time. The first statement precludes the second from being true and the second the first.
That is why consistency is important.
it is a little thing, such a little thing that it makes no difference to my life - or anyone else's I guess, so why did Yankee choose to be inconsistent? What was his motivation?
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Yankee, when making up a story take care to be consistent.
Telling us that your wife has nothing but good memories is not consistent with remembering bad times as well as good when the time context is the same.
Do you want to have a do over and tell us the truth this time?
There is no earthly reason why your wife should be upset about what was written by Dogsoldier or I given what you reported to us.
Consistency is the mark of an honest man.
Sorry boys, my wife stands by what she said. She does not need to “prove anything” to either one of you gentlemen.
I will repeat for you “She has nothing but good memories of Soviet time.”
Now what part of that do you disagree with?
For both of you to disagree with her is laughable.
Well, sadly, she is being dishonest here and so are you. We need not expand on why.
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Yankee, I have no reason to doubt your wife! Please read what YOU wrote. You told us both that she only remembers good things and then you told us she remembers both good and bad things from those days. What you told us can not be true.
Nothing to do with your wife.
Frankly I think you are making stuff up to suit your narrative. I have no idea why you'd do so. It seems to me that your first report of your wife's words fully accords with my understanding of how things were at the time. Also, given that your wife is not young it is reasonable to assume that she was aware of the environment in which she lived.
Why you chose to attribute to your wife statements that can not both be true is a mystery to me. But that's where consistency becomes an issue, you forgot what you had previously written.
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The way I see it is she chooses to remember the good times. She chooses to present them to yankee that way. But she probably can recall standing in a line for T.P.
I am about make a trip report (in 5 weeks 5 days). I am thinking of making two. One that emphases all the good aspects of Georgia and the other that gets into the nitty gritty of the negative aspects of the place. I wouldn't see that the later makes the former dishonest. Frankly it makes for good mental heath to concentrate on the good and push off the bad and keep them separate in mind and word.
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The way I see it is she chooses to remember the good times. She chooses to present them to yankee that way. But she probably can recall standing in a line for T.P.
I am about make a trip report (in 5 weeks 5 days). I am thinking of making two. One that emphases all the good aspects of Georgia and the other that gets into the nitty gritty of the negative aspects of the place. I wouldn't see that the later makes the former dishonest. Frankly it makes for good mental heath to concentrate on the good and push off the bad and keep them separate in mind and word.
She never had to stand in line nor her mother.
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Ya, it was really a genuine dictatorship of the proletariat, 'led by the Party'. If it were the other way around, the bourgeoisie would not also fall in line while Yankee would fall in line. But how come the lumpen proletariat were taken for granted, sir yankee. If Stalin and Lenin did really have 'souls', the lowest strata of the classless society must also be accommodated. Marx said, 'property hath no rights'. With the same vigor, the lumpen thief and beggar must have really said that and that there were reasons for them. They went hungry because of 'capitalism'. :)Same crude behaviour as the capitalist, sir yankee.
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The way I see it is she chooses to remember the good times. She chooses to present them to yankee that way. But she probably can recall standing in a line for T.P.
I am about make a trip report (in 5 weeks 5 days). I am thinking of making two. One that emphases all the good aspects of Georgia and the other that gets into the nitty gritty of the negative aspects of the place. I wouldn't see that the later makes the former dishonest. Frankly it makes for good mental heath to concentrate on the good and push off the bad and keep them separate in mind and word.
She never had to stand in line nor her mother.
And that represents the good old times? Or is that her recollection of the bad old times?
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To reduce the common folk to beggary can be gleaned by the way the Americans vote Conservative majority and the Russians vote social democratic. "You do not want to vote for us in CPSU, then I will punish you. No consumer goods nor wet markets for you"- Josef Stalin and Politburo. Logical and true! Vindictiveness is a sin laid down in the Bible. :laugh: :chuckle:
"Anybody who does know how to forgive is worse than a murderer and I will not forgive"- God, Bible. :saint:
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Gentlemen,
We have a "storm in a teacup" here. Please treat it as such...
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The way I see it is she chooses to remember the good times. She chooses to present them to yankee that way. But she probably can recall standing in a line for T.P.
I am about make a trip report (in 5 weeks 5 days). I am thinking of making two. One that emphases all the good aspects of Georgia and the other that gets into the nitty gritty of the negative aspects of the place. I wouldn't see that the later makes the former dishonest. Frankly it makes for good mental heath to concentrate on the good and push off the bad and keep them separate in mind and word.
She never had to stand in line nor her mother.
Then her family was part of the very small "elite" minority. For most of us under communism the situation was vastly different. Certainly my family's was.
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Finally you will agree that other people may have life experiences that are different than you. You seem to have modified your opinion from "very small "elite" minority" to "the upper echelon of society". Still don't know what you define as the upper echelon is. Perhaps you mean educated?
He definitely knows what he is talking about. I understand him clearly.
"Very small "elite" minority" and "the upper echelon of society" was a top of communist's party throughout the country .
They had special food delivery when the rest of SU was spending a half of day(every day!) in line for one kg of "kolbasa".
They had separate hospitals and rehabilitation centers in the South when the rest was struggling to get "free" healthcare.
They had government cars when the majority could not afford it.
For example, to apply for MD program you would need to have local Communist party approval. The same was for lawyers and historians.
Many books were prohibited. They were in special section in libraries. To get permission from communists to read them was almost impossible.
For reading those books without permission you would be in jail.
Scientists were in poverty with exception who worked for space and military purpose.
I could continue this list, but I was afraid you would get tired.....
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Finally you will agree that other people may have life experiences that are different than you. You seem to have modified your opinion from "very small "elite" minority" to "the upper echelon of society". Still don't know what you define as the upper echelon is. Perhaps you mean educated?
He definitely knows what he is talking about. I understand him clearly.
"Very small "elite" minority" and "the upper echelon of society" was a top of communist's party throughout the country .
They had special food delivery when the rest of SU was spending a half of day(every day!) in line for one kg of "kolbasa".
They had separate hospitals and rehabilitation centers in the South when the rest was struggling to get "free" healthcare.
They had government cars when the majority could not afford it.
For example, to apply for MD program you would need to have local Communist party approval. The same was for lawyers and historians.
Many books were prohibited. They were in special section in libraries. To get permission from communists to read them was almost impossible.
For reading those books without permission you would be in jail.
Scientists were in poverty with exception who worked for space and military purpose.
I could continue this list, but I was afraid you would get tired.....
I don't argue with what you say nor do I deny it. It is from your experiences that you relate to. So you should allow other people to express their opinions even if they differ from yours.
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I don't argue with what you say nor do I deny it. It is from your experiences that you relate to. So you should allow other people to express their opinions even if they differ from yours.
I am not a moderator. You can say what ever you want.
I have no power to remove your posts or words from your post.
But, like GC, I'm not holding my breathe anymore.
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I have a better idea for a best seller Volshe. You can make a photo calendar of yourself. We can call it twelve months with Stefanovich. Shall we provide the audience with an illustration?
Thanks for following me on social media (i guess) :)
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Volshe, Omega1982 and Justmd have valid points. If you want to include only those who have personal experience of Russia/FSU (and satellites) past than that would include you and Guppy Captain. Andrew has no personal experience, not even a significant other so he literally, like myself, has no personal experience with Russia/FSU's past. Manny, Moby, leslied and Markje are all connected to Russia/FSU only by wives or significant others. Again they can't speak from personal experience about Russia/FSU's past.
So by all means lets restrict the conversation to just those with personal experience of Russia/FSU's past. Everyone will leave you and GuppyCaptain alone to speak. Perhaps Orchid will drop by, or has it been decided she's not from Russia or the FSU (discussion from another thread)?
I stood in lines in FSU. I didn't mind. (My first long stay there without my family, as an exchange student was during those times when there were lines.)
You know, Westy, life is mostly NOT a 70+ y old coffee brake, at least not for majority of humanity. And? So, i stood in lines on -20 C to get to post office or to buy something or whatever the line was for. I could have opted out, very simply (by calling anyone from our Embassy to get me to diplomatic shops, i had dipl. passport and enough money), but i didn't want to, i wanted to live as an average student from FSU... Guess what, it didn't kill me, it gave me stuff to think about and to write about. You are right though, it's one person's experience, i believe a single mother of 2-3 with full time job wasn't so keen on social experimenting, but, i can only speak for myself and of my own experience. :biggrin:
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Finally you will agree that other people may have life experiences that are different than you. You seem to have modified your opinion from "very small "elite" minority" to "the upper echelon of society". Still don't know what you define as the upper echelon is. Perhaps you mean educated?
He definitely knows what he is talking about. I understand him clearly.
"Very small "elite" minority" and "the upper echelon of society" was a top of communist's party throughout the country .
Not only. Everyone who was well-positioned. It could be anyone working at warehouse, a butcher, a doctor, an actor/actress... Anyone whose services were in demand by many and who could in return ask those others for favors of all kinds. If you extract money from any given today's society - the principle is the same. Some sell/ trade looks, some sell books... I guess an ideal society would be different, but such society would require (almost) ideal people :biggrin:
Also, Orchid, i get it that probably you compare FSU with modern-day USA... Not to forget that the former was the last country in Europe to abolish slavery/serfdom, and we are speaking in that discourse, where a female grand-child of a (literally) slave with zero rights in tzarist Russia in SSSR had right to education, work, free medicine and so on... It is a giant leap forward. I think it was far from perfect, but in those terms, for majority, it was progress. One more generation and you are pretty much free to do whatever you want, including relocating to USA :biggrin: (And i get it that everyone is fixated on whatever they individually perceive as their personal lack, but if we look at things from philosophical distance... It ain't that bad, to the contrary ;))
p.s. люблю тебя, не обижайся, что у меня немного другое мнение, ладно?
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MODERATOR COMMENT
I tried a gentle approach to bring civility to this thread. It did not work.
Now the offensive posts since my last comment are deleted.
People have different recollections of life in Soviet times. ALL those recollections are valid.
Please post on topic from now on and no personal insults.
Otherwise I will close this thread.
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One evening while in Kazakhstan having dinner with my wife and her Russian mother, I asked her what it was like for her to live under the former USSR (my wife had to translate since she spoke no english) I told her I only asked because history is interesting to me....she said it was very difficult. I asked again why (the wife translated) she said food and work was hard to find but the military had the best of everything. She then said to me that I should not ask such questions and concern myself with taking care of her oldest daughter and her grandson.
True Russian reply. :)
They both made Meatball soup that evening...was crazy good!
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Totally agree with the above points. My girlfriend was born in Almaty but she's more Russian than Kazakh. [attach=1][attach=2]
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Sadly, all too often Russians can be heard to observe that 'Russians' from the Stans and even Baltic states are not truly Russian - I suspect the tide of nationalistic fervour has reduced this - especially if you look Slavic...