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Author Topic: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact  (Read 97750 times)

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Offline Larry

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Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« on: November 24, 2013, 04:10:24 PM »
Mod note: Further discussion on this topic can be found at our sister site (some in Russian) here: Ukraine Today

Quote
KIEV, November 24 (RIA Novosti) – Ukraine’s riot police used tear gas and batons against pro-European integration protesters when some of them tried to break through a police cordon to the central entrance of the Cabinet’s building in downtown Kiev, a RIA Novosti correspondent reported from the site Sunday.

Kiev police confirmed the use of tear gas but said they used it selectively against those protesters who also used tear gas or threw smoke bombs at them, Ukrainian media reported.
Tens of thousands of demonstrators backing EU integration and a separate group of protesters against it assembled in the Ukrainian capital on Sunday in reaction to the government’s decision earlier this week to suspend landmark agreements with Brussels and turn to Russia instead.

Police put the number of pro-EU protesters at about 22,000, the Unian news agency reported citing Kiev police. An opposition MP from the Fatherland parliamentary faction, Oleksandr Turchynov, said some 100,000 gathered on European Square. Ukraine’s Interior Ministry said a riot policeman was injured when unknown assailants threw two stones from the crowd.

The Ukrainian government announced November 21 it was halting plans to sign long-discussed trade and association deals with the European Union, because of the damage it would do to trade with Russia. In an announcement that stunned Europe, it said it would seek closer cooperation with Russia and the Moscow-led Customs Union that also comprises Belarus and Kazakhstan. The EU blamed unprecedented Russian pressure on Kiev for the Ukrainian decision, but Moscow denied any strong-arm tactics.

Earlier this year, Moscow suspended imports of some Ukrainian goods and warned that preferential trade agreements with Ukraine would end if it signed the EU deals.

http://en.ria.ru/world/20131124/184938426/Kiev-Police-Use-Tear-Gas-Against-Pro-EU-Integration-Protesters--Report.html


Offline Jeffery

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2013, 07:11:47 PM »
Quote
KIEV, November 24 (RIA Novosti) – Ukraine’s riot police used tear gas and batons against pro-European integration protesters when some of t
that preferential trade agreements with Ukraine would end if it signed the EU deals.

http://en.ria.ru/world/20131124/184938426/Kiev-Police-Use-Tear-Gas-Against-Pro-EU-Integration-Protesters--Report.html

(Attachment Link)

Thanks for the heads up Larry.

I hate to say this but your moving avatar is almost as distracting as 2TallBill's. 
I'm forced to cover it with another box when I read your posts. :(

Offline Larry

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2013, 07:21:00 PM »
Thanks for the heads up Larry.

I hate to say this but your moving avatar is almost as distracting as 2TallBill's. 
I'm forced to cover it with another box when I read your posts. :(

You're welcome.  My avatar shows a FSUW: the world's most beautiful girl, Irina Shayk. 


Offline Manny

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2013, 08:07:09 PM »
the world's most beautiful girl

Jenna Louise Coleman knocks spots off her.  :P
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline lordtiberius

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2013, 08:09:27 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/WiR3atKPc_o" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/WiR3atKPc_o</a>

Offline Larry

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2013, 08:40:15 PM »
the world's most beautiful girl

Jenna Louise Coleman knocks spots off her.  :P

This thread is nothing without pictures.

The beautiful Irina Shayk:




Offline el_guero

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2013, 10:01:01 PM »
So, was this a 'protest,' or another video shoot?

They have rock concerts and video shoots on the 'square.'

So, how much was normal, and how much was actual protest?

Offline Larry

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2013, 06:54:04 AM »
Quote
Ukrainian Protesters Control Landmark Plaza

By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN

Kiev, Ukraine — Thousands of people milled about on Independence Square on Monday morning, as the Ukrainian government effectively ceded control of the landmark plaza to protesters demanding the resignation of President Viktor F. Yanukovich and a revival of accords that would draw the country closer to Europe.

Several thousand people also marched on the Cabinet Ministry to demand the resignation of the government. They carried blue-and-yellow Ukrainian flags and chanted, “Gang, get out!” Many employees could not enter the building and left — aiding the demonstrators’ effort to paralyze the government.

Meanwhile, Parliamentary leaders continued to meet behind closed doors to discuss the political future of the country and to calculate a response, given fractures that have emerged in Mr. Yanukovich’s support, both in the government and, apparently, among the important constituency of Ukraine’s wealthiest businessmen, known as oligarchs.

Volodymyr Rybak, the speaker of Parliament, said Monday that he did not see any basis for declaring a state of emergency — a step that Mr. Yanukovich and his top security advisers appeared to be considering, and one that would almost certainly escalate the confrontation with demonstrators who have already defied court orders and other edicts.

“The issue today is not considered at any level,” Mr. Rybak said at a briefing, according to the Interfax-Ukraine news agency. “I do not see the necessity.”

Mr. Rybak has called for “round-table” meetings to resolve the crisis, employing the same phrase as that used for negotiations that peacefully resolved Ukraine’s Orange Revolution in 2004.

But on Monday morning he refused demands by opposition lawmakers to hold a vote calling for the resignation of Prime Minister Mykola Azarov and the rest of the government.

Several of the opposition leaders in Parliament, including Arseniy P. Yatseniuk of the Fatherland coalition, the boxing champion Vitali Klitschko, of the Udar party, and Oleg Tyagnibok of the nationalist Svoboda Party, are leading the protest movement in partnership with a coalition of civic activists.

Inna Bohoslovska, a member of Parliament who has quit Mr. Yanukovich’s Party of Regions in support of the demonstrators, called on Monday for the government to resign. Demonstrators also continued to occupy City Hall in Kiev, where windows had been smashed and walls covered with graffiti. Under a sign for the Kiev City Council, someone had painted in black: “Revolution Headquarters.”

After a huge rally on Sunday — a crowd estimated at a million or more that observers said exceeded even the largest gatherings of the Orange Revolution nine years ago — the demonstrators overnight blocked city streets, using Christmas decorations and police barricades intended to stop the protest.

The result was an oddly festive, fir-trimmed encampment at the heart of the Ukrainian capital. Protest leaders, sensing that momentum had turned to their advantage, continued to add infrastructure to their operation, bringing in television monitors and erecting a small tent city that included first-aid stations and canteens.

Having occupied the nearby Trade Unions building on Sunday, they seized control of a giant screen mounted on its facade, and replaced the advertising it had carried — first with images of the yellow-starred European Union flag, and by Monday morning with a live video feed of speakers on the protest stage outside.

Mr. Yanukovich’s refusal to sign political and free trade accords with the European Union has now directly shaken the president’s prospects of remaining in power. Cracks have begun to emerge in his political base: His chief of administration was reported to have resigned, and a few members of Parliament have quit his party and have decried the police violence.

Many Ukrainians see the agreements with Europe as crucial steps toward a brighter economic and political future, and as a way to break free from the grip of Russia and from Ukraine’s Soviet past. The outcry over Mr. Yanukovich’s abandonment of the accords is pushing Russia into a corner.

The Kremlin, which has supported Mr. Yanukovich as a geopolitical ally for years despite its frequent annoyance with him, used aggressive pressure to persuade him not to sign the accords. Now the anger over Russia’s role has made it all but impossible for Mr. Yanukovich to take the alternative offered by the Kremlin — joining a customs union with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. Any compromise with the protesters would have to revive the accords with Europe, and reduce Russia’s sway.

The steady escalation of the protests — and the threat of further violent crackdowns — has created a volatile situation that showed no sign of abating.

The authorities reported Sunday night that about a hundred police officers and more than 50 protesters were injured, including some with burns to their eyes from tear gas. Witnesses said that some protesters, including women, had been beaten brutally.

The police made scattered arrests, but did not immediately release a tally.

There were demonstrations in the cities of Lvov and Chernivtsi, in the generally pro-European western part of Ukraine, and also in the predominantly Russian-speaking east, which tends to favor close ties with Moscow and where Mr. Yanukovich has his main base of support. Several thousand people rallied in Dnipropetrovsk in the southeast, defying a court order banning a protest there. Even in Donetsk, Mr. Yanukovich’s hometown in the east, hundreds rallied in favor of European integration.

Serhiy Lyovochkin, the chief of the presidential administration staff, reportedly resigned on Saturday over the crackdown. At least five lawmakers from the Party of Regions spoke out forcefully against the police violence, and at least two, David Zhvania and Ms. Bohoslovska, said they had quit the party. Ms. Bohoslovska sent a text message to a protest leader, Yegor Sobolev, telling him: “If I can be useful, I am here. Let’s go to the rally.”

There were signs that some of Ukraine’s wealthiest business leaders, known as oligarchs, were turning against Mr. Yanukovich as well, or at least were positioning themselves for a major shift in the government. Mr. Sobolev said that a television channel owned by Rinat Akhmetov, Ukraine’s richest man, had invited him to appear in prime time, which he took to be an effort by Mr. Akhmetov to reach out to the opposition.

The Orange Revolution in 2004 also centered on mass protests against Mr. Yanukovich, in response to blatant election fraud that made him the easy winner of the presidential election that year, contradicting early returns and exit polls that showed him losing to Viktor A. Yushchenko. The protests led to a new election that Mr. Yushchenko won, but Mr. Yanukovich made a comeback in 2010, defeating Yulia V. Tymoshenko, the former prime minister. Ms. Tymoshenko has since been prosecuted and imprisoned for abuse of authority.

Although Mr. Yanukovich condemned the police violence on Saturday and promised an investigation, his government drew heavy international criticism, including from the United States.

The chief of the Kiev police, Valery Koryak, submitted his resignation on Sunday, saying that he had given the order to use force, though it was not clear whether he had control over the officers involved. The interior minister, Vitaliy Zakharchenko, did not accept the resignation, but said he was suspending Mr. Koryak pending the investigation.

Mr. Zakharchenko also publicly apologized for the use of excessive force, but his apology did little to ease public outrage.

Unlike the protests of 2004, which focused on installing a particular leader, the current protests stem from the thwarted ambitions of millions of Ukrainians who view integration with Europe as a step toward eliminating rampant corruption, overhauling the justice system and generally improving the standard of living.

“People are not on the street to support exact politicians,” Mr. Sobolev said. “There are even a lot of people who said we don’t need politicians. The general opinion was something closer to the American and European ideal — that the real power should be citizens, not ministers, not presidents, not politicians.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/world/europe/ukraine-unrest.html?hp

I bolded an interesting paragraph.


Offline el_guero

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2013, 09:55:13 AM »
So, was this a 'protest,' or another video shoot?

They have rock concerts and video shoots on the 'square.'

So, how much was normal, and how much was actual protest?


Offline Barbossa

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2013, 10:06:15 AM »
Quote
Putin's Pyrrhic Victory in Ukraine / The Moscow Times
02 December 2013 | Issue 5267
By Yevgeny Kiselyov

Russia's battle for Ukraine has topped headlines in recent weeks and months, and that struggle now nears an end. Kiev did not sign an association agreement with the European Union at its summit in Vilnius last week. That means President Vladimir Putin has scored a huge victory against the West.

It remains unclear exactly which magic words Putin used to convince Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych not to sign the EU agreement, but he apparently promised Yanukovych billions of dollars in low-interest loans that he desperately needs to improve Ukraine's economy and strengthen his own chances for re-election in 16 months.

Moscow has taken a strong lead in this year's geopolitical game of Russia vs. the U.S. Here are the highlights of the match so far:

Washington fails to prevent Russia from granting asylum to U.S. National Security Agency intelligence leaker Edward Snowden. Score: Russia 1, USA 0.

Russia all but forces the U.S., Britain and France to abandon plans for military action against Syria. Russia 2, USA 0.

Russia disrupts plans by the EU to sign the Association Agreement with Armenia, while convincing Yerevan to join the Customs Union with Russia instead. Russia 3, USA 0.

The U.S. edition of Forbes magazine names Putin the most influential politician in the world, surpassing U.S. President Barack Obama. Russia 4, USA 0.

Finally, Moscow wages an unprecedented campaign of pressure against Ukraine, ultimately persuading Yanukovych to cancel plans to sign the Association Agreement with the EU. Russia 5, USA 0. If this were a soccer match, it would be a complete rout.

As Putin likes to say, "The weak get beaten." U.S. President Barack Obama, as many had long suspected, turned out to be weak, and he was beaten. Europe has taken a licking as well. The EU was weakened by the economic crisis and became torn by divisions within the union. Brussels revealed its weakness during the Snowden incident, the showdown over Syria, and now in the situation with Ukraine.

The EU never had proper tactics, much less a strategy concerning Ukraine. One of the European leaders tried to convince the others to remove the requirement that Yanukovych release his arch-rival, former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, as a precondition for signing the Association Agreement with Brussels. Meanwhile, an opposing camp of EU leaders adamantly insisted that no further progress with Ukraine was possible until Tymoshenko was freed.

In public, Western diplomats in Kiev "expressed concern" about the selective justice applied in the Tymoshenko case, but in confidential talks they cynically argued that, for example, German Chancellor Angela Merkel could not afford to risk raising Putin's ire over her attempts to facilitate closer relations between Brussels and Kiev. She understood all too well that Putin could create serious problems for German businesses that have billions of dollars invested in Russia.

At the same time, the EU pompously declared its desire to help Ukraine implement European-style reforms and introduce its Western standards and values, while never admitting that they were primarily motivated by geopolitical considerations. For months, if not years, the talks on closer economic ties between Kiev and the EU never went anywhere. Only at the beginning of the year, when Brussels realized that the anti-Western bias in Russia's foreign policy was reaching a new peak and it started to fear that Ukraine might once again fall under Russia's influence, Europeans hurriedly closed ranks and tried to play catch-up in its bid for Ukraine.

It is surprising that the EU was so completely unprepared for the way Moscow played hardball in the struggle for Ukraine.

It seems that the Europeans were also surprised to discover that Ukraine had never been as interested in signing the Association Agreement as it had led Brussels to believe. Only a handful of European politicians understood that Ukrainian leaders' solemn assurances of their commitment to European integration should be taken with a grain of salt and that the whole thing was a game of political poker in which every player was bluffing.

According to informed sources, Moscow originally placed strict conditions on Kiev and demanded that Ukraine join Russia's Customs Union, which Yanukovych rejected. But at the last moment, Moscow sweetened the deal, not only offering generous financial assistance for Ukraine, but also dropping its ultimatum that it must join the Customs Union as part of the deal. In the end, Russia thought it had won simply by spoiling the game for the EU, denying Europe the chance to claim its "Ukrainian prize."

But the huge turnout of protesters in Kiev — and the subsequently harsh crackdown by the police against them — completely changed the political situation for Yanukovych, Putin and all of Ukraine.  The current political instability in Kiev undoubtedly rivals the 2004 crisis, which led to the Orange Revolution. Putin's seeming victory in convincing Yanukovych to rebuff the EU is looking more ­Pyrrhic with each passing day as an increasing number of Ukrainians express their anger at Yanukovych's decision to table the agreement with the EU.

If the Ukrainian crisis escalates, it could further destabilize this country of nearly 50 million people located in the center of Europe and present a far more urgent challenge for Europe and for its security.

Yevgeny Kiselyov is a political analyst and television journalist.



Read more: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/putins-pyrrhic-victory-in-ukraine/490597.html#ixzz2mL0bMFYi
The Moscow Times
Quote

Found this interesting.  Words reporting to the West from Moscow.....

Offline Barbossa

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2013, 10:17:12 AM »

Offline Slumba

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2013, 11:13:57 AM »
It's all part of the "great game" a/k/a Heartland Theory.  Underneath that, oil/gas and the issue of pipelines from Russia/Ukraine through to other places.

Merkel speaks Russian fluently, and whether she was ever Stasi or not is unknown - her closest professor was Stasi, for instance.  So I doubt that all is as simplistic as LT believes it to be.
Anchors Rewoven

Offline JeanClaude

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2013, 12:58:45 PM »
DO you see a MOB in Poland? ROmania? Bulgaria (all EU countries)

Ukraine joins the EU? the death of the MOB in Ukraine (that is a freakin huge chunk out of the FSU MOB),.., see how these people are willing to fight over a EU worker/residence visa, as soon as Ukraine joins the EU, you can hear the big sucking sound emptying the Ukraine,...
-
Who is going to marry an overweight westener as a mule if jobs and residence are for free,
a day not trolled is a day not lived

Offline Larry

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2013, 01:14:22 PM »
So, was this a 'protest,' or another video shoot?

They have rock concerts and video shoots on the 'square.'

So, how much was normal, and how much was actual protest?


Sorry for not replying earlier. I figured after the extensive publicity these protests have received that your question would be moot.  The people were there to protest rather than to attend a rock concert or watch a video shoot, as evidenced by the following news reports, which describe the scene as a protest and contain no mention of rock concerts or video shoots (in addition to the The New York Times and Moscow Times articles I copied below):

RIA Novosti:

http://en.ria.ru/world/20131202/185205431/Barricades-Erected-Overnight-in-Kiev-after-Weekend-Clashes.html

Another RIA Novosti story:

http://en.ria.ru/world/20131201/185193926/Activists-Storm-Buildings-in-Kiev-as-Protest-Movement-Grows.html

Moscow Times:

"According to varying estimates, between 600,000 and 1.6 million people took to the streets in central Kiev on Sunday to protest Yanukovych's recent decision to suspend a planned association agreement with the EU in favor of closer ties with Russia."

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/kiev-protesters-bring-city-to-standstill/490744.html#ixzz2mLh7CAJL

Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/01/us-ukraine-protest-idUSBRE9AT01Q20131201

Time:

http://world.time.com/2013/12/01/ukraine-tens-of-thousands-march-through-kiev/

The Guardian:

"Hundreds of thousands take to streets in the largest protests the country has seen since since 2004 Orange Revolution"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/01/ukraine-largest-street-protests-orange-revolution

The Telegraph:

"Ukraine is seeing its biggest protests since the 2004 Orange Revolution, as demonstrators vow to topple the government of President Viktor Yanukovych."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10487001/Ukraine-sees-biggest-anti-government-protests-since-Orange-Revolution.html

RT:

http://rt.com/news/kiev-standoff-opposition-authorities-568/

The Moscow News:

http://themoscownews.com/news/20131202/192084023/Barricades-erected-in-Kiev-as-violent-protests-swell-.html

BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25176191

Another BBC article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25174937

UK Independent:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-proeu-protests-police-forced-to-flee-as-demonstrators-take-over-central-kiev-8975954.html

Kiev Post:

http://www.Kievpost.com/content/ukraine/euromaidan-rallies-in-ukraine-live-updates-332341.html

There are lots more articles from various publications. 

Offline el_guero

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2013, 09:04:20 PM »
So, the only data you know anything about is the propaganda war ....


Offline Larry

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2013, 09:11:25 PM »
So, the only data you know anything about is the propaganda war ....

The only info I can get about the protests is from the 15 news stories to which I cited. But I cannot claim to know as much as El Guero, who can, in his infinite wisdom, look beyond these journalists who are on the scene and divine the true story from what, 7,000 miles, 10,000 miles away?   Or are you again a semi-resident of FSU?

Tell us the true story, oh allwise El Guero.

Online mhr7

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2013, 01:18:46 AM »
So, the only data you know anything about is the propaganda war ....
Here's what a Ukrainian friend, from Nikolayiv, had to say;

"Fu_k Yanakovich"

"Fu_k Putin"

"Fu_k Russia"

Seems to be the general attitude.

Offline Manny

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2013, 02:08:32 AM »
DO you see a MOB in Poland? Romania? Bulgaria (all EU countries)

Ukraine joins the EU? the death of the MOB in Ukraine (that is a freakin huge chunk out of the FSU MOB),.., see how these people are willing to fight over a EU worker/residence visa, as soon as Ukraine joins the EU, you can hear the big sucking sound emptying the Ukraine,...
-
Who is going to marry an overweight westerner as a mule if jobs and residence are for free,

This.

PS - Long time no see JC.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Net_Lenka

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2013, 03:00:55 AM »
So, the only data you know anything about is the propaganda war ....
Here's what a Ukrainian friend, from Nikolayiv, had to say;

"Fu_k Yanakovich"

"Fu_k Putin"

"Fu_k Russia"

Seems to be the general attitude.

 Yeah! It's seems internal attitude going for centures among a part of Ukrauina people who wish to be "close to Europa" by any means Even if EU itself has  some different ( soft to day) idea about how it would to what Ukrainian dreamers immage in their minds.
 
So blame Russia for everything - for Yanukovich ( whom they elected because he seemed better than ogange Yushchenko and who tried to bagrain with the Eu for better conditions not for Russia but for Ukraina ) , Putin - who has a blatant desire to provide Russian gas on Russian terms ( indeed how dare he - he has do that that on Ukrainian terms - better for free at all) and Russia in whole

Good luck - just do not say for the whole UKraina because there is also East part as well as Krym
- А Вы кто такой будете?
-Тьфу на Вас
-А фамилия Ваша как?  -Тьфу на Вас еще раз .. а фамилия моя слишком известная, чтобы я её называл

Offline Anteros

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2013, 06:49:41 PM »
DO you see a MOB in Poland? ROmania? Bulgaria (all EU countries)

Ukraine joins the EU? the death of the MOB in Ukraine (that is a freakin huge chunk out of the FSU MOB),.., see how these people are willing to fight over a EU worker/residence visa, as soon as Ukraine joins the EU, you can hear the big sucking sound emptying the Ukraine,...
-
Who is going to marry an overweight westener as a mule if jobs and residence are for free,

 :chuckle:  Welcome back JC.  Are you still living in Ukraine?
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Offline Slumba

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2013, 07:17:44 PM »
see how these people are willing to fight over a EU worker/residence visa, as soon as Ukraine joins the EU, you can hear the big sucking sound emptying the Ukraine,...

Actually, is there currently a path for a Ukrainian to get into the EU?  What are the requirements as of today?  My understanding was, it is very difficult - is that correct?
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Offline sashathecat

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2013, 08:21:04 PM »
see how these people are willing to fight over a EU worker/residence visa, as soon as Ukraine joins the EU, you can hear the big sucking sound emptying the Ukraine,...

Actually, is there currently a path for a Ukrainian to get into the EU?  What are the requirements as of today?  My understanding was, it is very difficult - is that correct?

Through a work VISA to Poland, a hopping off on bus tour stop, or assets.

Offline lordtiberius

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2013, 08:39:25 PM »
I know there is a lot of pro-Russian sentiment on the board.  So even though the people of Ukraine are against you, RT is the only world wide news providing consistent English speaking commentary.  None of this is coming up on drudge, the Daily Caller, Fox or any of the lib news services.  So the rest of the world doesn't care that there's a revolution going on in Ukraine or Thailand or Zimbabwe.  We are morning the loss of the leading man of the Fast and Furious franchise.

Both the opposition and the governing party are in a Mexican stand off and maybe in one for quite some time.  Azarov can't get support to declare a state of emergency which would clear the streets and the opposition has not a vote of no confidence vote YET. 

Inna Bohoslovska said that only a third of the Regionnaires opposed the EU integration.   Bohoslovska believes that Yanokovych who never got along with Putin is Putin's prisoner.  And that Putin intends to use Yanokovych and Azarov as fall guys so he can put his man - the unpopular but pro-Stalinist Viktor Medvedchuk in and its' bend over Ukrainia.

Offline Anteros

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2013, 06:57:03 PM »
I know there is a lot of pro-Russian sentiment on the board.  So even though the people of Ukraine are against you, RT is the only world wide news providing consistent English speaking commentary.  None of this is coming up on drudge, the Daily Caller, Fox or any of the lib news services.  So the rest of the world doesn't care that there's a revolution going on in Ukraine or Thailand or Zimbabwe.  We are mourning the loss of the leading man of the Fast and Furious franchise.


I have nothing against the leading man of Fast and Furious but his death proves two things:

1.  Hollywood movies and stunts are not in any way shape or form based on reality (and neither are most videos) which is why we have millions of young people addicted to mindless violence without any knowledge of the real consequences.

2.  Knowing about the death of this guy is the extent of many AW's education about "the world".
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Offline el_guero

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Re: Huge protest in Kiev over gov. refusal of EU trade pact
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2013, 07:06:39 PM »
So, the only data you know anything about is the propaganda war ....

The only info I can get about the protests is from the 15 news stories to which I cited. But I cannot claim to know as much as El Guero, who can, in his infinite wisdom, look beyond these journalists who are on the scene and divine the true story from what, 7,000 miles, 10,000 miles away?   Or are you again a semi-resident of FSU?

Tell us the true story, oh allwise El Guero.


Larry, I have been a semi-resident of Ukraine for several years ....

Why do you pretend?  Make some FRIENDS from the FSU and then complain if you must ....


 

 

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