This will be exciting!

[Scampo]

Hello :-)

Not quite sure what kind of input I am expecting from the forum on my story so far, just hoping for an understanding audience I suppose. 

Out of curiosity I joined a free Russian dating site a while back (two years or more).  I split with a girlfriend in the UK at the start of 2012 so I activated the profile again and starting chatting to various girls online with a vague idea of sincerity, but not really expecting to meet someone in real life.

A couple of months ago one particular girl caught my attention and we communicated more and more through Skype and telephone, and established what I feel is a genuine and sincere connection.  We're now planning to meet.

Her: 26, from Novosibirsk, divorced, no children.  Physically, she is a slender beauty and in the UK I would rate her a knockout 9 or so.  She lives with her mother and is university educated and works in a white collar profession.  Her English is pretty decent and she has picked up on quite a few new words in the months we have been talking.  I think she is intelligent and she is certainly well-read.

Me: 31, reasonably successful IT sales consultant from London.  Athletic and not bad looking, I have had beautiful girlfriends in the UK in the past and lived in various countries.  I have a high income but little savings.  A pretty decent catch for most girls as a good 'bet'.  She is more beautiful than I of course :-) but we would not raise eyebrows as a mismatch.

In the time that we have been talking I haven't picked on the slightest red flag.  She is a sweet natured, sincere, slightly naive but extremely kind girl.  She's been to a few countries but not to the USA or Europe.  When we speak on Skype I quite often see the comings and goings at her family home, her family and mother, and they seem a good class of people and a very normal family.  Things haven't moved too fast, we would no way consider anything silly like professions of love, but it's clear that we are attracted and want to meet each other.  Her previous marriage seemed to end for understandable reasons; they married too young, basically, at age 19.  He now lives in Moscow but they are civil on the few occasions they speak.

Naturally the conversation turned to how this could happen.  London to Novosibirsk is a long way and with winter coming we decided that Thailand is a mutually convenient place.  I lived there for a year and know the coastline well - she visited before with her ex-husband.   

So here we have it - she is booked up and we're meeting in Phuket in a couple of months.  She paid for her ticket.  I'll spoil her a bit of course but I was impressed about her attitude to putting a lot of money down to meet me.  We'll go island hopping down the coast.  It should be a a lot of fun.

So there we have it - I never expected this to happen and I'm not quite sure how to proceed if we want to carry on with it.  If I fell in love with her I would marry her and I could offer her a good life here - but one step at a time.  It will take many months to get to that stage.

Any advice for a newbie who appears to be pleasantly in at the deep end? 

[shakespear]

So here we have it - she is booked up and we're meeting in Phuket in a couple of months.  She paid for her ticket.  I'll spoil her a bit of course but I was impressed about her attitude to putting a lot of money down to meet me.  We'll go island hopping down the coast.  It should be a a lot of fun. 

Huge mistake.  Absolutely huge.  H U G E !

I can count on one hand the number of successful WM/FSU woman marriages I know about where the first meeting was at some romantic tropical venue.

What do you expect to learn about this lady in a romantic tropical paradise environment that will help you make a logical decision about whether this is somebody you would want to share the rest of your life with?  Don't you think you might be establishing some pretty high first impression expectations?  Don't you think you'd be better served going to her home city, meeting her friends and family and watching (learning) how she reacts to everyday life situations?

Plenty of time for romantic vacations AFTER you've made a mutual commitment to each other. 

You might not like to hear it, but that's my opinion.  Have a nice vacation.

[Muzh_1]

Phuket man, you are doing good, so what else can I add?

First, welcome.

You seem to have a firm grasp on reality, considering that dealing with emotions it can turn illogical.

Go out and have some fun. Get to know her better.

And good luck.

[Manny]

So here we have it - she is booked up and we're meeting in Phuket in a couple of months.  She paid for her ticket.  I'll spoil her a bit of course but I was impressed about her attitude to putting a lot of money down to meet me.  We'll go island hopping down the coast.  It should be a a lot of fun. 

Huge mistake.  Absolutely huge.  H U G E !

I can count on one hand the number of successful WM/FSU woman marriages I know about where the first meeting was at some romantic tropical venue.

What do you expect to learn about this lady in a romantic tropical paradise environment that will help you make a logical decision about whether this is somebody you would want to share the rest of your life with?  Don't you think you might be establishing some pretty high first impression expectations?  Don't you think you'd be better served going to her home city, meeting her friends and family and watching (learning) how she reacts to everyday life situations?

Plenty of time for romantic vacations AFTER you've made a mutual commitment to each other. 

You might not like to hear it, but that's my opinion.  Have a nice vacation.

Ordinarily, I would agree with you Shakes.

However, look at their respective ages, the validation he has performed already, the fact that she has paid her own way and asked for nothing. In this case, I think it quite harmless as a first meet. Its not like he is an American who will arrive with a K1 form in his hand on a one shot deal.

He can go to her hometown later. If he doesn't intend to rush, I see no harm in it.

I met my wife abroad the first time. She also paid her own way. 

Scampo: My advice is don't do anything rash like proposing. Also, the ticket likely cost her a few quid, especially from a Russian salary. Make sure she pays for nothing else while you are there. That is pretty much a cultural expectation anyway. Enjoy the holiday with the nice lady and keep us tuned in on developments. 

[shakespear]

I met my wife abroad the first time. She also paid her own way. 

Where "abroad" Stuart?

Shakey

[Scampo]

Thanks for the input.  I have mulled over the holiday-romance-syndrome thing.  Thing is, I'm not looking for short term nuptials.  I am sincerely meeting someone I have taken an interest in with a view to seeing if there is chemistry.  No way would I propose on a first or even a third meeting.  If we like each other, I will meet her in Russia and soon thereafter.

Meeting on neutral turf 'feels' okay to me in this situation.  I would be more uncomfortable going straight to Novosibirsk and staying in her hometown with family the first time I ever met her - that would definitely not be a normal way of doing things if I was dating a girl at the other end of the UK, for example.

As far as emotions go, I think both of us would be horrified to think that there could be any strong meaningful emotions yet.  At the moment we are pen friends who want to meet.

I will make sure that I treat her over there and she won't need to get her purse out out of course :-) I think I'll take her down to Koh Lipe and Koh Lanta, I have nice friends who live down on the islands and it's much more lovely than Phuket.   

[Chris]

Meeting on neutral turf 'feels' okay to me in this situation.  I would be more uncomfortable going straight to Novosibirsk and staying in her hometown with family the first time I ever met her - that would definitely not be a normal way of doing things if I was dating a girl at the other end of the UK, for example.

But you probably wouldn't you would rent an apartment (preferable) or stay in a Hotel.

As far as emotions go, I think both of us would be horrified to think that there could be any strong meaningful emotions yet.  At the moment we are pen friends who want to meet.

That's the attitude, nothing more at this time. Keep it in mind and don't let the holiday mood allow you to make decisions you don't want too.


Maybe not the ideal way to meet first time, but others have done it and you seem to know what you are doing, have things weighed up seemingly, so have a great time.

[B.B.]

Ordinarily, I would agree with you Shakes.

However, look at their respective ages, the validation he has performed already, the fact that she has paid her own way and asked for nothing. In this case, I think it quite harmless as a first meet. Its not like he is an American who will arrive with a K1 form in his hand on a one shot deal.

He can go to her hometown later. If he doesn't intend to rush, I see no harm in it.

I met my wife abroad the first time. She also paid her own way. 

Scampo: My advice is don't do anything rash like proposing. Also, the ticket likely cost her a few quid, especially from a Russian salary. Make sure she pays for nothing else while you are there. That is pretty much a cultural expectation anyway. Enjoy the holiday with the nice lady and keep us tuned in on developments. 

+1 

Based on the fact pattern presented (lots of direct communication, she's paying her own way, his knowledge of the region, etc.)

I hope things go well.  The only danger is "Disneyland" syndrome, which sometimes happens with long distance relationships (whether domestic or foreign). 

Go, have fun, see how it goes.  Next visit should be to Novosibirsk, under better weather conditions, I think.

Best of luck,

B/B

[shakespear]

I would be more uncomfortable going straight to Novosibirsk and staying in her hometown with family the first time I ever met her - that would definitely not be a normal way of doing things if I was dating a girl at the other end of the UK, for example. 

I agree that your situation is somewhat different than the story we normally hear in this regard.

But I have to ask you, would putting a lady on an airplane and jetting her off for several weeks to a tropical paradise be your normal first date in the UK?  Of course not.

And what do you think her parents REALLY think about a young man who is so presumptuous to invite their daughter to visit him without first meeting him themselves?   

There is no rule that you have to stay in her parents apartment with her on your first visit.  Apartments for short term rent (7-10 days) are plentiful in Novosibirsk.

I'd STRONGLY advise a quick trip to Novosibirsk BEFORE you embark on your romantic holiday.   Wouldn't that provide proof that your intentions are legitimate?  It would also be a pleasant surprise and perhaps answer some lingering questions (like why doesn't she want me to go to Novosibirsk but is willing to go to Thailand?)

[Olga_Mouse]

Where "abroad" Stuart?

I'm not Stuart, but IIRC it was Malta? 

[Muzh_1]

I would be more uncomfortable going straight to Novosibirsk and staying in her hometown with family the first time I ever met her - that would definitely not be a normal way of doing things if I was dating a girl at the other end of the UK, for example. 

I agree that your situation is somewhat different than the story we normally hear in this regard.

But I have to ask you, would putting a lady on an airplane and jetting her off for several weeks to a tropical paradise be your normal first date in the UK?  Of course not.


And what do you think her parents REALLY think about a young man who is so presumptuous to invite their daughter to visit him without first meeting him themselves?   

There is no rule that you have to stay in her parents apartment with her on your first visit.  Apartments for short term rent (7-10 days) are plentiful in Novosibirsk.

I'd STRONGLY advise a quick trip to Novosibirsk BEFORE you embark on your romantic holiday.   

One more time, she is putting herself on a plane. I guess her parents will say "Bon Voyage."

[leslied]

+1 

Based on the fact pattern presented (lots of direct communication, she's paying her own way, his knowledge of the region, etc.)

I hope things go well.  The only danger is "Disneyland" syndrome, which sometimes happens with long distance relationships (whether domestic or foreign). 

Go, have fun, see how it goes.  Next visit should be to Novosibirsk, under better weather conditions, I think.

Best of luck,

B/B

Precisely !

I am not meaning to rain on your parade Scampo but you should have contingency plans should things not work out. 

A few years ago a guy I knew organised a trip like yours to a resort hotel in Egypt.  Big bust up on day 3.  Unfortunately this place was in the middle of nowhere so they had to spend the rest of the trip together - which was hell...

Plan an exit strategy which will take you out of this situation and leave the lady to enjoy a comfortable vacation on her own.  I sincerely hope you won't need to action this plan but it is like insurance.  Having it does not make an accident more likely.

Secondly it is not a good idea to push the sleeping arrangements.  Two rooms to start or a twin bedded room.  Discuss this with your lady before you make the booking. 

I think you will have a fine adventure.  Best of luck!

[shakespear]

One more time, she is putting herself on a plane. I guess her parents will say "Bon Voyage."

You're being obtuse as usual Muzh.

Is the typical western first date a mutual airplane ride away?

[Scampo]

Totally agree with leslied's two points - totally agree.  First night will be in Phuket and I'm booking two rooms.  Thereafter it will be beach hut things going down the coast so I'll make sure to offer to book her a separate boudoir as we go.  If I was going to Thailand just for a sex tour then I would probably travel there alone ;-) if she wants my company at night, it will be dealt with tactfully.

The Andaman coast is very easy to get around and there are many parties of tourists including lone female travellers.  The speedboats go several times a day up and down the coast.  It's very safe and if she wants to go her own way, she will have plenty of people to meet and talk to and I would not need to be concerned about leaving her in an unsafe place.

[Brasscasing]

He's living la vida loca, baby....and someone bloody well clean up this thread, couple mods almost hijacked it.

Brass

shakey edit:  Done Brass.  I thought I was the only one with fat fingers 

[shakespear]

Totally agree with leslied's two points - totally agree.  First night will be in Phuket and I'm booking two rooms.  Thereafter it will be beach hut things going down the coast so I'll make sure to offer to book her a separate boudoir as we go.  If I was going to Thailand just for a sex tour then I would probably travel there alone ;-) if she wants my company at night, it will be dealt with tactfully.

The Andaman coast is very easy to get around and there are many parties of tourists including lone female travellers.  The speedboats go several times a day up and down the coast.  It's very safe and if she wants to go her own way, she will have plenty of people to meet and talk to and I would not need to be concerned about leaving her in an unsafe place.

Can I be frank Scampo?

It sounds to me like you think a romantic getaway with an exotic beauty in Thailand will be much more fun and appealing FOR YOU that an early winter cold weather visit to a Stalinist holdover city like Novosibirsk.

And you have the cash to pull it off. 

But are you being fair to the lady.

I remember in boot camp, my D.I. teaching me "Always choose the "hard" right instead of the "easy" wrong."

Just something to think about . . . . . . . . . 

[Vinnvinny]

Can I be frank Scampo?

It sounds to me like you think a romantic getaway with an exotic beauty in Thailand will be much more fun and appealing FOR YOU that an early winter cold weather visit to a Stalinist holdover city like Novosibirsk.

And you have the cash to pull it off. 

But are you being fair to the lady.

Yep, seems fair to me. I'm liking this man already ..... 

[NS1]

I agree with manny, you got your head screwed on straight and are not looking for anymore than to see if there is physical connection. go have fun and ask lots of hard questions if good, you can see her expressions and answers live, is good sign. if alls good go to her home town and see her and family, friends etc.

[Manny]

I met my wife abroad the first time. She also paid her own way. 

Where "abroad" Stuart?

Shakey

Where "abroad" Stuart?

I'm not Stuart, but IIRC it was Malta? 

Ms Mouse has good recall. Yes, it was Malta Bradley.

FWIW, our second meet was in Paris and on to Holland. Our third was in Estonia IIRC. After that, I finally dragged my arse to Russia, and then she visited the UK.

For sure, I didn't do it textbook, but then again, I had a similar view to Scampo here, and had no need to rush. I was just meeting a girl to see how it went, as he intends to do.

[Olga_Mouse]

Ms Mouse has good recall.

...and IIRC, we've had a looooooooooooong "meeting in 3rd country" discussion already? Somewhere back in 2008 or 2009...

If some forum tech wizard could find that link & re-post it, it might be useful for Scampo... 

[shakespear]

Ms Mouse has good recall. Yes, it was Malta Bradley.

FWIW, our second meet was in Paris and on to Holland. Our third was in Estonia IIRC. After that, I finally dragged my arse to Russia, and then she visited the UK.

For sure, I didn't do it textbook, but then again, I had a similar view to Scampo here, and had no need to rush. I was just meeting a girl to see how it went, as he intends to do.

OK.  I was counting you in my handful of validated success stories using the meet in other country first strategy Manny. 

Do you think it would be a good idea for Scampo to give the lady say $2500 in cash the moment she gets off the airplane - just to hold in case she decides she wants to get away from him but doesn't have the resources herself to do so?  She of course will be expected to return the money to him before she goes home if she doesn't need it.

[Scampo]

Quite grateful for shakespear's counterpoint :-) you make valid arguments.  I fully admit that -35 Novosibirsk in the winter doesn't appeal. 

However, maybe I'm being naive about cultural differences here but this is a fairly sophisticated city girl from downtown in what, let's face it, is not a small village...a divorcee with a fairly senior white collar job and top-quartile earnings...I hardly feel like I'm subjugating an innocent young thing.  Am I being fair to her?  I think she can make up her own mind, and besides, she needs a holiday as she's not been out of the city since last NY.

On the subject of meeting in third country, I was talking to another girl a few months back who was determined that I was going to take her on an all-expenses trip to Turkey.  She was most brazen in her quid-pro-quo attitude to what we each may get out of the trip.  I politely declined that one ;-) 

[Ste]

Is Manny's first TR not on another forum?

[Manny]

Do you think it would be a good idea for Scampo to give the lady say $2500 in cash the moment she gets off the airplane - just to hold in case she decides she wants to get away from him but doesn't have the resources herself to do so?  She of course can return the money to him before she goes home if she doesn't need it.

If he were a 20 years older American, probably. Different generation and mindset. Much potential for disaster.

In his case, probably not.

They got to know each other pretty naturally (as much as one can over Skype). He appears well socialised with a sensible outlook. They are similar in age, both modern European mentality from what we can tell.

Assuming her folks know where she is going, they will have taken care of that I reckon. When my [now] wife and I were first in France and Holland, she had a few thousand dollars (yes, it was still dollars back then - now more likely Euros) that her Dad had given her just in case she had to get herself out of shit street fast.

I think they are doing what a bunch of Facebook generation folks do every day now.

[Olga_Mouse]

OK.  I was counting you in my handful of validated success stories using the meet in other country first strategy Manny. 

Anyone remembers Gorky Guy from the previous forum? IIRC, he has first met his wife in Prague...