Links banned at ukraine. Fresh information and maps online (in English).
http://en.voicesevas.ru/
http://cassad.net/?do=warmarker
It can't be considered as government propaganda, people work for free at this resource.
It can't be considered as government propaganda, people work for free at this resource.
I would hazard a guess those links aren't banned in Ukraine. Unlike Russia, Ukraine does not have "government friendly" media sources. Report what you want when you want.Ukraine just bans Russian TV channels, kills and kidnaps "alien" journalists and used to post a lot of "facts" said by officials not bothering to provide any proves Otherwise that - "report what you want"
It can't be considered as government propaganda, people work for free at this resource.
No, but a non-government owned site can parrot government propaganda and use the same narratives of government propaganda serving as an echo chamber tiphat
It can't be considered as government propaganda, people work for free at this resource.
No, but a non-government owned site can parrot government propaganda and use the same narratives of government propaganda serving as an echo chamber tiphat
Ты можешь повторять эту мантру про пропаганду до посинения, но факты - вещь упрямая.
Да, убери наконец подпись под своим профайлом, у тебя нет ничего общего с моей Россией.
I would hazard a guess those links aren't banned in Ukraine. Unlike Russia, Ukraine does not have "government friendly" media sources. Report what you want when you want.Ukraine just bans Russian TV channels, kills and kidnaps "alien" journalists and used to post a lot of "facts" said by officials not bothering to provide any proves Otherwise that - "report what you want"
Information portal of Donetsk Republic http://dnrespublika.info
wish to know what's going on in South West of the Ukraina - let see what people who live exactly THERE think
Even Manny agrees............
Even Manny agrees............
Doesnt matter what I agree with or not.
I'd prefer you didn't keep broadcasting what you imagine to be my opinion though. You habitually distort what you read and then repeat it in a form beyond recognition.
Where did my post go?
Links banned at ukraine. Fresh information and maps online (in English).
http://en.voicesevas.ru/
http://cassad.net/?do=warmarker
It can't be considered as government propaganda, people work for free at this resource.
Where did my post go?
And mine! Seems we have mods from RT....
Links banned at ukraine. Fresh information and maps online (in English).
http://en.voicesevas.ru/
http://cassad.net/?do=warmarker
It can't be considered as government propaganda, people work for free at this resource.
I asked my nephew to try your links. He could access them, notwithstanding the fact he lives in the fascist capital.
Links banned at ukraine. Fresh information and maps online (in English).
http://en.voicesevas.ru/
http://cassad.net/?do=warmarker
It can't be considered as government propaganda, people work for free at this resource.
I asked my nephew to try your links. He could access them, notwithstanding the fact he lives in the fascist capital.
(T)hey think that because the Russian government is bad (beyond dispute) . . .
Russia meanwhile tells its own lies, not of exaggeration but of what might politely be called understatement. Russia maintains, quite incredibly, that none of its soldiers are in Ukraine and that it is not arming the rebels. Of course Russian soldiers are in Ukraine, and of course Russia is helping with supplies and training. To the extent that all its operations are technically deniable, this may well be true. But it is obvious that the GRU is giving powerful aid to the rebels. Quite rightly, the western media recover their proper scepticism when confronted by these claims, and sneer at them.
Ukrainian police shoot unarmed member of the public.
Forward to 3:30.
Articles like this don't help creating Russian support....
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/how_to_solve_the_putin_problem.html
No wonder Putin's popularity is increasing, even within the younger citizens.
Articles like this don't help creating Russian support....
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/how_to_solve_the_putin_problem.html
No wonder Putin's popularity is increasing, even within the younger citizens.
Probably true almost the chivvy elements, just like here when in 1982 when everyone was loving us sinking a ship and drowning 300 men. Gotcha!!
Articles like this don't help creating Russian support....
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/how_to_solve_the_putin_problem.html
No wonder Putin's popularity is increasing, even within the younger citizens.
Articles like this don't help creating Russian support....
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/how_to_solve_the_putin_problem.html
No wonder Putin's popularity is increasing, even within the younger citizens.
Articles like this don't help creating Russian support....
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/how_to_solve_the_putin_problem.html
No wonder Putin's popularity is increasing, even within the younger citizens.
Isn't Putin doing exactly what you're accusing the Americans of doing? Putin has already said "Russia's partners...should understand it's best not to mess with us...", Putin then said "I want to remind you that Russia is one of the leading nuclear powers." (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/29/russia-putin-conflict-idUKL5N0QZ3HC20140829) That certainly is cowboy diplomacy at its best.
There's little doubt Putin wants Ukraine to stay in Russia's sphere of influence. The only real debate is can he take and keep all of Ukraine or will he have to settle for only that part of Ukraine east of the Dnieper?
Articles like this don't help creating Russian support....
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/how_to_solve_the_putin_problem.html
No wonder Putin's popularity is increasing, even within the younger citizens.
Isn't Putin doing exactly what you're accusing the Americans of doing? Putin has already said "Russia's partners...should understand it's best not to mess with us...", Putin then said "I want to remind you that Russia is one of the leading nuclear powers." (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/29/russia-putin-conflict-idUKL5N0QZ3HC20140829) That certainly is cowboy diplomacy at its best.
There's little doubt Putin wants Ukraine to stay in Russia's sphere of influence. The only real debate is can he take and keep all of Ukraine or will he have to settle for only that part of Ukraine east of the Dnieper?
Perhaps let the East Ukies vote on it like in Crimea...
Articles like this don't help creating Russian support....
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/how_to_solve_the_putin_problem.html
No wonder Putin's popularity is increasing, even within the younger citizens.
Isn't Putin doing exactly what you're accusing the Americans of doing? Putin has already said "Russia's partners...should understand it's best not to mess with us...", Putin then said "I want to remind you that Russia is one of the leading nuclear powers." (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/29/russia-putin-conflict-idUKL5N0QZ3HC20140829) That certainly is cowboy diplomacy at its best.
There's little doubt Putin wants Ukraine to stay in Russia's sphere of influence. The only real debate is can he take and keep all of Ukraine or will he have to settle for only that part of Ukraine east of the Dnieper?
Besides I have not accused the US of doing anything, I have said they shouldn't be poking their nose in where its not wanted.
Besides I have not accused the US of doing anything, I have said they shouldn't be poking their nose in where its not wanted.
Would you say that Russia shouldn't be poking its nose into another country (Ukraine) where it was not wanted?
I'm sure you'll agree, in the interests of total transparency the identity of the individual(s) being interviewed and the owners of the media should be revealed as much as possible.
For example in Manny's example it's obvious that Sergei Lavrov is the Russian foreign minister. He's identified as such in the article. What readers might not realize is that RBTH - Russia Beyond The Headlines - is a Russian government owned and operated media outlet. In Manny's example a Russian government owned and operated media outlet is interviewing a Russian government official.
Even Manny agrees that most if not all government officials, no matter the country, are corrupt and/or incompetent. The same can be said for government owned and operated enterprises. This is why total transparency is necessary.
Without total transparency readers might think they're reading news when in fact all they're reading is government propaganda.
This wont be popular with some here: http://dearputin.com/
Discussion on this topic (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=21499.30) please.
Ukraine must be cleansed of idiots, which points to one solution: the genocide of cretins – malicious, deaf to the voice of Logos, deadly dangerous and on top of that immeasurably stupid.
Most Europeans in poll think Ukraine should be offered EU membership.QuoteA majority of Europeans think Ukraine should be offered membership of the European Union but they are divided about whether it should be admitted to NATO, according to a major public opinion survey published on Wednesday.
http://news.yahoo.com/most-europeans-poll-think-eu-offer-ukraine-membership-183628706.html
QuoteThe “we must stand up to Putin as we did to Hitler” line is pure schoolboy politics. Putin, of whom I saw a fair amount as UK ambassador to Moscow, is not an ideologically driven fanatic, but much closer to Talleyrand – the calculating, pragmatic rebuilder of his country’s status in the world. Certainly the seizure of Crimea was illegal and destabilising. But it was a panicky response to a unique set of circumstances, not the start of an attempt to rebuild the USSR. Of course we are right to reassure those who feel most threatened – as Nato has done with its decision to create a “spearhead force”. We are right to condemn the destruction of MH17, which a report confirmed yesterday was almost certainly shot down. But the idea that sabre-rattling is necessary to convince Russia of Nato’s seriousness is ridiculous. If the Russians didn’t take the Nato security guarantee seriously, why would they be so worried about Ukraine joining?
The second false premise is that economic sanctions can stop Russia. We have deployed sanctions six times against Russia since the Second World War; they have never worked, and won’t this time. There was an air of desperation around claims at last weekend’s Nato summit in Newport that sanctions pushed Russia into the current ceasefire. In reality the US, UK and Ukraine resisted a ceasefire that left Russia in command of the field in East Ukraine. Ukraine only moved to accept the ceasefire because it suddenly started losing the war.
It’s time to back away from the Russian wolf (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/11084600/Its-time-to-back-away-from-the-Russian-wolf.html)
----------------------------------
Discussion is here (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=21499.msg378748#msg378748)
Ukraine, Russia and the EU should of been dealing with this, US involvement wasn't needed.
Interesting article. Full of holes. Thought a professional diplomat, knighted for his service to Queen and country, would have done a better job.
If Strelkov is in any manner speaking for the Kremlin then surely this is a warning to the EU and other countries that Russia wants its former empire back.
However, dawn of the Russian Spring broke on the horizon; and our country started – not in words, but in reality – to rise from its knees. But as soon as Russia attempted to rethink the results of Gorbachev’s capitulation and to regain the rights and the territories that belonged to it from ancient times – to achieve real independence – the Fifth Column mobilized all the forces available to it. The return of Crimea to Russia shocked it, and the uprising in Novorossiya caused true panic, and forced it to manifest once again its true face.
No one has challenged Russia's right to Novgorod or Moscow.
Neither Putin nor Strelkov get to decide what happens to Ukraine. That right belongs to Ukrainians.
Yet. Another attempted colour revolution will come soon enough. Putin's recent comments shows he sees that too. He isn't dumb. The American foreign policy dream is for Putin to be overthrown, probably killed like Gaddafi and Hussein, and Russia dismantled and looted.
People came to power through the use of armed force and by unconstitutional means.
Yet. Another attempted colour revolution will come soon enough. Putin's recent comments shows he sees that too. He isn't dumb. The American foreign policy dream is for Putin to be overthrown, probably killed like Gaddafi and Hussein, and Russia dismantled and looted.
Makes perfect sense! America is on the verge of financial collapse and they are going after Russia who has had over 20 years to recover and become a world power again.... instead of doing it in the 90's when Russia was on it's knees and the American economy was booming. Is this what you are trying to tell us? :chuckle:
C'mon Manny, America had plenty of opportunity to loot Russia when they were weak, it makes absolutely no sense to go after them now. You poor innocent victim Mr Putin is just doing what he is best at... deflecting people's attention so he can take what he wants from Ukraine. Pity so many people fall for it!
An interesting article on an interesting site I encountered today. It is more of an overview of what is happening in Ukraine and why.
http://www.russiaotherpointsofview.com/2014/09/reality-check-from-russia.html#
Discussion is here (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=21499.45).
Yet. Another attempted colour revolution will come soon enough. Putin's recent comments shows he sees that too. He isn't dumb. The American foreign policy dream is for Putin to be overthrown, probably killed like Gaddafi and Hussein, and Russia dismantled and looted.
Makes perfect sense! America is on the verge of financial collapse and they are going after Russia who has had over 20 years to recover and become a world power again.... instead of doing it in the 90's when Russia was on it's knees and the American economy was booming. Is this what you are trying to tell us? :chuckle:
C'mon Manny, America had plenty of opportunity to loot Russia when they were weak, it makes absolutely no sense to go after them now. You poor innocent victim Mr Putin is just doing what he is best at... deflecting people's attention so he can take what he wants from Ukraine. Pity so many people fall for it!
I think the article I just posted (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=21492.msg379259#msg379259) points out why now.
As for America being on the verge of financial collapse, that doesn't stop war.
And I have to agree with Halo above, especially about the part where the author talks about how split the society in Ukraine is between Ukrainian and Russian speakers. I haven't been to western Ukraine so I can't give an opinion on what it is like there, but anywhere I have been (including in Crimea) I have never seen or heard about any friction between the two groups. In fact the first time I heard of any problems is when the pro Russians started these accusations. :-X
Have you heard anything about Ukrainians being so divided here on RUA in the past? Because if it was such a big issue I'm sure it would popped up in discussion here sometime in the past few years. I'd be interested in hearing if any RUA members who have actually been to Ukraine have witnessed this problem, I can't recall talking to anyone here who has mentioned this.
So can you honestly tell me that I should take this article seriously and that it is solid evidence that supports your theory that the US wants to loot and pillage Russia? Sorry, but you'll have to do better than that! Like I said, if that was what the US was really after they would have done it in the 90's when Russia was on its knees, they would make sure Russia could never become a world power again. Putin knows there are enough Ameriphobes in the world that he can come up with these wild accusations and leave enough doubt in people's minds that it gives him time to make the moves he wants before anyone will act.
Like I said, pity so many people fall for it.
Ex-tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky, who spent a decade in jail after challenging the Kremlin, openly stated his political ambitions on Saturday by announcing he would be ready, if called upon, to lead Russia in times of crisis.
He didn't learn anything in prison did he?QuoteEx-tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky, who spent a decade in jail after challenging the Kremlin, openly stated his political ambitions on Saturday by announcing he would be ready, if called upon, to lead Russia in times of crisis.
Translation: "If there is to be an American funded colour revolution in Russia, can I be Obama's puppet president?"
He didn't learn anything in prison did he?QuoteEx-tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky, who spent a decade in jail after challenging the Kremlin, openly stated his political ambitions on Saturday by announcing he would be ready, if called upon, to lead Russia in times of crisis.
Translation: "If there is to be an American funded colour revolution in Russia, can I be Obama's puppet president?"
The West has made somewhat of a hero out of Khodorkovsky when in reality the guy was nothing more than a common thief; albeit a smart, connected one.
I think you'll find that people/governments in the West have a far greater respect for him than most in Russia.
FYI, all the oligarchs in Russia knew the rules when they became oligarchs during privitazation. They also knew that not playing by the rules afterwards would have consequences. As smart as Khodorkovsky was/is, his ego got in the way. And while some of his intentions were legit and honest after he "earned" his money, his rise to the fiscal mountaintop was anything but.
Getting in bed (or trying to) with the West was his downfall.
He has no future in Russia and Russians sure and the hell don't trust him, despite the protests from his relatively few followers.
Ukrainian army accused of using cluster bombs on civillian areas :'(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29702522
A Downing St Petition:QuoteNo to Nato military exercises in Ukraine
Responsible department: Ministry of Defence
We note with great concern that UK and US troops are scheduled to participate in joint military exercises in Ukraine in July as part of NATO’s Rapid Trident manoeuvres. Ukraine is not a member of NATO. Its participation in military exercises by a nuclear-armed alliance with a first-strike policy can only further destabilise the country.
We call on the British government to urge the US and other NATO governments to cancel the Rapid Trident exercise, and to give a plain and public undertaking that Britain will not participate.
Initial signatories:
Lindsey German, convenor of Stop the War Coalition
Kate Hudson, general secretary of CND
Caroline Lucas MP
Jeremy Corbyn MP
John Rees, Stop the War Coalition
Baroness Jenny Tonge
Ken Loach, film and TV director
Mark Rylance, actor
Miriam Margolyes OBE actor
Michael Rosen, author and broadcaster
Salma Yaqoob, former leader of the Respect Party
Andrew Murray, chief of staff for Unite union
Anyone that wants to sign it can do so here: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/64756
I agree with what you say here.Ukrainian army accused of using cluster bombs on civillian areas :'(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29702522
It is good that this is finally getting out into the wider world. Hopefully soon awareness of the use of phosphorous munitions and the use of ballistic missiles against civilian targets.
It is certainly true that as in any war things happen that are wrong, evil and gross. Atrocities committed by all conflicting parties, but to be targeting civilians, their housing and infrastructure as a consistent policy is a whole different level of malice.
Ukrainian army accused of using cluster bombs on civillian areas :'(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29702522
A Downing St Petition:QuoteNo to Nato military exercises in Ukraine
Responsible department: Ministry of Defence
We note with great concern that UK and US troops are scheduled to participate in joint military exercises in Ukraine in July as part of NATO’s Rapid Trident manoeuvres. Ukraine is not a member of NATO. Its participation in military exercises by a nuclear-armed alliance with a first-strike policy can only further destabilise the country.
We call on the British government to urge the US and other NATO governments to cancel the Rapid Trident exercise, and to give a plain and public undertaking that Britain will not participate.
Initial signatories:
Lindsey German, convenor of Stop the War Coalition
Kate Hudson, general secretary of CND
Caroline Lucas MP
Jeremy Corbyn MP
John Rees, Stop the War Coalition
Baroness Jenny Tonge
Ken Loach, film and TV director
Mark Rylance, actor
Miriam Margolyes OBE actor
Michael Rosen, author and broadcaster
Salma Yaqoob, former leader of the Respect Party
Andrew Murray, chief of staff for Unite union
Anyone that wants to sign it can do so here: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/64756
12 signatures? They need a better PR team.
Manny I am curious, they are bringing aid? what are they taking back to Russia, seems to be a normal routine,
bring 3/4 empty trucks, take them back full.
NS1: Are they going back with loads?
I kinda doubt it - are you sure that you are not just passing on somebody else's fantasies again? I kinda think you are. ;) :'(
"The People's Court of Novorossiya" sentences a man to death.
http://tvrain.ru/articles/v_seti_pojavilos_video_pervogo_narodnogo_suda_novorossii-377382/
The full version of the video is "coming soon", apparently.
http://vk.com/id265927036?w=wall265927036_10488
So imagine the headlines the Western media, Russia supports the executioners.
,QuoteIn reality, Germany is not a hugely enthusiastic partner because a large section of Berlin’s political class is extremely skeptical of US power. Significant numbers of the German intelligentsia feel that Moscow is their natural ally – not Washington.QuotePutin is often misunderstood in the West. His public statements, aimed more at a domestic audience than an international one, come across as aggressive, almost chauvinistic. But observers would do well to remember that he is a judo master whose moves are calculated to confuse and wrong-foot an opponent. Reading between the lines, the Russian president is seeking engagement - not isolation.
The Russian president envisages his country as part of a new international alternative, joining with the other BRIC nations to restrain US aggression wherever possible. Putin sees this as the path to stability. Adenauer and Macmillan would have understood this perfectly but modern European and North American leaders do not get it. Drunk on the dominance they have enjoyed over the past 20 years, the penny has yet to drop that the global order is rapidly changing.
How the US reacts to the new reality will be vital. In an almost cartoon-like way, Washington discourse is now focused on the NSA, spooks, shadow governments, a lost and pathetic fourth estate, squandered militaristic might, and rampant, terrifying nationalism. This juvenility requires a bad guy. In a decade, it has moved from Bin Laden, Saddam, and 'Freedom Fries' to Russophobia. If the American elite maintain the same behavior, the transition to a multi-polar world might not be peaceful. That's the fear, and that fear is real.
Article here: http://rt.com/op-edge/201563-time-new-world-order/
I wonder how this electron is going to effect the electric power in Lugansk?
The time of reckoning draws closer
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30025138
So , seeing the map in Andrews link it appears kramatorsk is once again inside the territory of the rebels. Slovjansk will probably be the next target.
English version. LNR ask Kiev to restore benefits for elderly. Also Residents in Rebel held area are no longer consider citizens of the Ukraine. This is a big deal as most of the none millitary people in Rebel controled areas are elderly and need pensions. Everybody else left. The voted with their feet.
The trouble with rebel held elections is no opposition is aloud to have a place in the debate. How many voters would voted differently if they knew they were going to lose their pensions. They thought they were just voting for free food.
http://lifeinua.info/lnr-asks-Kiev-pay-social-benefits-recognizes-donbas-residents-citizens-ukraine/
So what they are basicly saying is they are giving up on that part of Ukraine. No more citizens and government benefits / bureaucracy in that part of Ukraine.
Great. Hopefully the murdering will stop now.
Quotehttp://www.1tv.ru/news/leontiev/271824
Those are pretty darn high-resolution pictures in this webpage... Some people will deny this proof as propaganda of course.
The interesting part is that they claim it is coming from a foreign satellite (USA? Europe??? else?)
The screws are being turned on the US here.
The screws are being turned on the US here.
They had a satellite there at the time. They know what happened but chose not to share. Why is that? :innocent:
Russia also knows what happened. They gave the US months to come clean on what they knew.
... why have the Americans pushed for sanctions against Russia with such force. Why have the Americans pressured other countries, as you've repeated many times, to follow the US on sanctions?
To try to counter the Russian military build-up, Kiev has redeployed more forces eastward.
https://www.youtube.com//v/DVIDR9JSPFs
"president" tells himself with whom he is fighting. It's not Russia, it's Donbass people. Fascist.
Not what he told me, but maybe I lost something in translation?
Not what he told me, but maybe I lost something in translation?
"У нас работа будет - у них нет. У нас пенсии будут - у них нет. У нас поддержка людей - детей и пенсионеров - будет, у них нет. У нас дети пойдут в школы и детские сады, а у них они будут сидеть по подвалам. Потому что они ничего не умеют делать! Вот так, именно так мы выиграем эту войну".
Вообще-то это называется геноцидом.
Speaking of lost in translation this is sad considering the co founder of Google was born in Russia...
"We will work - they do not have. We will be retired - they do not have. We have the support of people - children and seniors - will, they do not. We will go to children in schools and kindergartens, and they they will sit the cellars. because they do not know how to do! so, this is how we will win this war. "
Actually, it is called genocide.
I have no idea what this means... just a bunch of illogical snippets of English words - good old Google mis-translation.
... and Russian kids will sit in the cellars during the bombing...
....
However what the Russians are doing in the sea near to Australia is directly analogous to the actions of the US in the Black Sea during the winter Olympics. The connection wil not have gone unnoticed. At the same time it is historically normal for both Russia and the US to station a naval force within reach of heads of state at meetings of this kind, Russia stopped doing it for a while.
When Poroshenko focuses on the business side of this stupid war, Russia will lose hands down.
When Poroshenko focuses on the business side of this stupid war, Russia will lose hands down.
Wayne,
I'll remind you of what you posted when the time is right.
The screws are being turned on the US here.
They had a satellite there at the time. They know what happened but chose not to share. Why is that? :innocent:
Russia also knows what happened. They gave the US months to come clean on what they knew.
The screws are being turned on the US here.
They had a satellite there at the time. They know what happened but chose not to share. Why is that? :innocent:
Russia also knows what happened. They gave the US months to come clean on what they knew.
That's right.
I can understand why the Russians are handling the matter in this way. Given that any evidence the US has from the satellite(s) they had up in place at the time th US face the problem that non disclosure demonstrates their complicity and for global security that is a very dangerous think - you don't poke a cornered rat with a stick, even if the rat is tired and wounded.
The very presence of the satellite the Russians indicated was present shows that the US was complicit because those things do not have stable orbits, they are driven around the sky so being at a place, at a time is a pre-planned event. If the US knew in advance of the event, which they had to do in order to position the equipment in place, why did they not stop the murders when they had the opportunity?
Back in July the Russians were giving the US a chance to cover their tracks without being forced to admit what was obvious, As time goes by the Russians have less incentive to spare the 'blushes' of the US.
You couldn't make it up. Oh, my bad, it just was. Please, you need to start taking your meds.The screws are being turned on the US here.
They had a satellite there at the time. They know what happened but chose not to share. Why is that? :innocent:
Russia also knows what happened. They gave the US months to come clean on what they knew.
That's right.
I can understand why the Russians are handling the matter in this way. Given that any evidence the US has from the satellite(s) they had up in place at the time th US face the problem that non disclosure demonstrates their complicity and for global security that is a very dangerous think - you don't poke a cornered rat with a stick, even if the rat is tired and wounded.
The very presence of the satellite the Russians indicated was present shows that the US was complicit because those things do not have stable orbits, they are driven around the sky so being at a place, at a time is a pre-planned event. If the US knew in advance of the event, which they had to do in order to position the equipment in place, why did they not stop the murders when they had the opportunity?
Back in July the Russians were giving the US a chance to cover their tracks without being forced to admit what was obvious, As time goes by the Russians have less incentive to spare the 'blushes' of the US.
You couldn't make it up. Oh, my bad, it just was. Please, you need to start taking your meds.The screws are being turned on the US here.
They had a satellite there at the time. They know what happened but chose not to share. Why is that? :innocent:
Russia also knows what happened. They gave the US months to come clean on what they knew.
That's right.
I can understand why the Russians are handling the matter in this way. Given that any evidence the US has from the satellite(s) they had up in place at the time th US face the problem that non disclosure demonstrates their complicity and for global security that is a very dangerous think - you don't poke a cornered rat with a stick, even if the rat is tired and wounded.
The very presence of the satellite the Russians indicated was present shows that the US was complicit because those things do not have stable orbits, they are driven around the sky so being at a place, at a time is a pre-planned event. If the US knew in advance of the event, which they had to do in order to position the equipment in place, why did they not stop the murders when they had the opportunity?
Back in July the Russians were giving the US a chance to cover their tracks without being forced to admit what was obvious, As time goes by the Russians have less incentive to spare the 'blushes' of the US.
Dogsoldier, yes, Sparky is right. Automatic gainsaying of the words of another does not make for a sensible discussion.
So, in the spirit of learning, given that the US moved one of their latest spy satellites into position above the particular area of the MH17 shooting down and thus had prior knowledge of an event, why would you excuse the US from culpability in the crime given that they took no action to stop the event, choosing to, if we are charitable, to simply sit and watch?
Given that, at the time, NATO were on electronic warfare and surveillance exercises in the region and had AWACS planes in the air with this part of Ukraine within their purview, why did NATO take no action to warn the ATC staff in Kiev or Rostock, or the pilots directly of what they were seeing? Or not even provide the data that they'd have had to hand covering the area?
Tell us Dogsoldier about these things. I don't know about anyone else, but I am keen to learn from you.
D672, yes, exactly this! You may not know about this stuff but there's an area of statecraft called 'diplomacy' practiced by 'diplomats'. In many cases politicians and military men are engaged in diplomacy. Their job is to attain the goals of their employing state without going to war.
There is a well understood principle that embarrassing a counterpart tends to be counterproductive in attaining positive outcomes. Publicising US involvement in the shooting down of MH17 would be very embarrassing to the US and would tend to reduce the possible options that the US would have available for its dealings in Ukraine and with Russia - just the same as between two individuals.
However, if the US chooses to ignore the diplomatic courtesies offered then, at some point, it is possible that Russia could cast aside those courtesies and make clear what really happened, removing from the US the option to cast their murderous actions or malign neglect in a less negative light.
Dogsoldier, yes, Sparky is right. Automatic gainsaying of the words of another does not make for a sensible discussion.
So, in the spirit of learning, given that the US moved one of their latest spy satellites into position above the particular area of the MH17 shooting down and thus had prior knowledge of an event, why would you excuse the US from culpability in the crime given that they took no action to stop the event, choosing to, if we are charitable, to simply sit and watch?
Given that, at the time, NATO were on electronic warfare and surveillance exercises in the region and had AWACS planes in the air with this part of Ukraine within their purview, why did NATO take no action to warn the ATC staff in Kiev or Rostock, or the pilots directly of what they were seeing? Or not even provide the data that they'd have had to hand covering the area?
Tell us Dogsoldier about these things. I don't know about anyone else, but I am keen to learn
Putin is getting closer to admitting the truth.
http://www.mail.com/int/news/europe/3212544-putin-sides-abiding-peace-deal-ukraine.html#.1258-stage-hero1-2
Here we go again, in one hand he says we are going to remove all your state services and hospital /school funding, pensions, banks, c/cards so your nothing to do with us or a drain on our economy!
Then with the other hand he says you can not be self governing so withdraws that law ???
Come on Povertyshenko make your mind up for gods sake. do you want this area or not?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30072483
As this thread was suppose to be for links only, I did one line, then all can read for themselves, take from it what you will.Putin is getting closer to admitting the truth.
http://www.mail.com/int/news/europe/3212544-putin-sides-abiding-peace-deal-ukraine.html#.1258-stage-hero1-2
Are you sure that English is your native tongue?
What truth is he getting closer to admitting? There's nothing concealed in those words which are from an interview he recorded before going to the G20 meeting and which reflect the reality of what is happening in Ukraine.
Neither the rebels or the junta are fully implementing the cease fire, neither side has withdrawn to demarcation lines. Peace is still possible.
The reasons why the rebels are not wanting to fall back in every case is clear, sensible and in the context reasonable - Putin made that clear, nothing hidden. He was also clear, and reiterated this from previous occasions, that Russia would not allow Ukraine to perform an ethnic cleaning operation in the region. Nothing new, nothing hidden. He was right to note that fighters can always find weapons - as we already know the rebels have taken over military bases and arms caches in the region they have also captured huge amounts of materiel from the Ukrainian forces and they receive a huge amount of support from the Russian people. Nothing new here.
I can see that you were unable to grasp the context of what you were reading and thus picked upon a couple of words that you thought might be important - if you knew what you were reading about you'd understand just how you'd been misled. To be charitable to you, here's a bone for you: there's a world of difference between Canada the state and Canada the nation and, again, between Canada the society (people). Think about how that works and place that into the context of what you read and were misled by here. ;)
As this thread was suppose to be for links only, I did one line, then all can read for themselves, take from it what you will.
I really don't need or want your help, thanks :)
As this thread was suppose to be for links only, I did one line, then all can read for themselves, take from it what you will.
I really don't need or want your help, thanks :)
The title does not indicate that this thread is for links only.
As this thread was suppose to be for links only, I did one line, then all can read for themselves, take from it what you will.
I really don't need or want your help, thanks :)
The title does not indicate that this thread is for links only.
Conversation on the links topic gets moved to this one.
Andrew you are making a lot of assumptions & accusations, do you have any proof of any of this?
Or is this you rambling along, projecting on others what you believe?
I realize you are handicapped, as noted elsewhere I am not qualified to help you with this tiphat
Andrew you are making a lot of assumptions & accusations, do you have any proof of any of this?
Or is this you rambling along, projecting on others what you believe?
To which assumptions and accusations do you refer?
Don't make the mistake of assuming that everyone's knowledge of the world is as limited as yours is. In life, in many areas, there is a body of knowledge that is assumed to be known and shared by all. To not have possession of that body of knowledge can be a real handicap.
D672, yes, exactly this! You may not know about this stuff but there's an area of statecraft called 'diplomacy' practiced by 'diplomats'. In many cases politicians and military men are engaged in diplomacy. Their job is to attain the goals of their employing state without going to war.
There is a well understood principle that embarrassing a counterpart tends to be counterproductive in attaining positive outcomes. Publicising US involvement in the shooting down of MH17 would be very embarrassing to the US and would tend to reduce the possible options that the US would have available for its dealings in Ukraine and with Russia - just the same as between two individuals.
However, if the US chooses to ignore the diplomatic courtesies offered then, at some point, it is possible that Russia could cast aside those courtesies and make clear what really happened, removing from the US the option to cast their murderous actions or malign neglect in a less negative light.
Poroshenko: Crowds chant "fascist" when he arrived in Bratislava, the capital of Slovakia in the EU.
Yea All fifty of them. Every head of state has that type of problem some place in the world. So what is the big deal???
Here we go again, in one hand he says we are going to remove all your state services and hospital /school funding, pensions, banks, c/cards so your nothing to do with us or a drain on our economy!
Then with the other hand he says you can not be self governing so withdraws that law ???
Come on Povertyshenko make your mind up for gods sake. do you want this area or not?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30072483
No wonder China wants to repopulate Siberia with energy/natural resources technicians and workers (Red Chinese Army Reservists).
http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/09/01/putin-demands-federalization-for-ukraine-but-declares-it-off-limits-for-siberia/
Even the tiniest and most innocuous of federalization movements keeps Putin awake at night, but none more than Siberia. Consider what would happen to Putin’s power vertical if the Federal District of Siberia, which accounts for twenty percent of the Russian population and more than three quarters of oil and gas production, decided to “federalize” itself along the lines Putin demands for Ukraine.
Let’s say, for purposes of illustration, that Siberian separatists force Putin’s federal government to split taxes and fees from Siberian oil and gas fifty-fifty. Oil and gas taxes of all kinds currently account for 53 percent of all federal revenues. Regions and municipalities currently get a tiny one tenth of one percent of oil and gas taxes, and Putin returns only five percent of federal revenues to regions and municipalities as grants. I doubt if these one-sided arrangements make Siberian oil, mineral, and timber workers happy. They contribute about half of state revenues and get virtually nothing back.
Westy, you are confusingChina/Russia with the west.ChinaRussia isnota warring expansionist nation. Itisn'tdropping bombs on the other side of the world like some we know.
Russia andChinaUkrainehavehad a business relationship, they were brothers. Why should either seek to change it? Using your thinking, because I draw money from the ATM of a bank, it will incline me to rob said bank. Not the case.
Westy, you are confusingChina/Russia with the west.ChinaRussia isnota warring expansionist nation. Itisn'tdropping bombs on the other side of the world like some we know.
Russia andChinaUkrainehavehad a business relationship, they were brothers. Why should either seek to change it? Using your thinking, because I draw money from the ATM of a bank, it will incline me to rob said bank. Not the case.
Putin is getting closer to admitting the truth.
http://www.mail.com/int/news/europe/3212544-putin-sides-abiding-peace-deal-ukraine.html#.1258-stage-hero1-2
Are you sure that English is your native tongue?
What truth is he getting closer to admitting? There's nothing concealed in those words which are from an interview he recorded before going to the G20 meeting and which reflect the reality of what is happening in Ukraine.
Neither the rebels or the junta are fully implementing the cease fire, neither side has withdrawn to demarcation lines. Peace is still possible.
The reasons why the rebels are not wanting to fall back in every case is clear, sensible and in the context reasonable - Putin made that clear, nothing hidden. He was also clear, and reiterated this from previous occasions, that Russia would not allow Ukraine to perform an ethnic cleaning operation in the region. Nothing new, nothing hidden. He was right to note that fighters can always find weapons - as we already know the rebels have taken over military bases and arms caches in the region they have also captured huge amounts of materiel from the Ukrainian forces and they receive a huge amount of support from the Russian people. Nothing new here.
I can see that you were unable to grasp the context of what you were reading and thus picked upon a couple of words that you thought might be important - if you knew what you were reading about you'd understand just how you'd been misled. To be charitable to you, here's a bone for you: there's a world of difference between Canada the state and Canada the nation and, again, between Canada the society (people). Think about how that works and place that into the context of what you read and were misled by here. ;)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-18/ukraine-admits-its-gold-gone
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-18/ukraine-admits-its-gold-gone
According to the World Gold Council, the source quoted at the start of that article, Ukraine has a very similar amount of gold now as it did in February (40.4 tonnes / 9.6% of reserves versus 42.3 tonnes / 8% of reserves).
http://www.rts.ch/la-1ere/programmes/factuel/6305528.html/BINARY/World_Official_Gold_Holdings_as_of_November2014_IFS.pdf
It’s worth pointing out here that when NATO sacked Libya in 2011, one of the first items that came into question was the gold in Libya’s state-run central bank. Prior to the NATO takeover of that country, Libya had one of the highest per capita gold reserves in the world, alongside Lebanon, giving Libya a distinct advantage should it carry out former Libyan leader Muammar Muhammad al-Gaddafi’s long-term financial transition to a gold-backed Libyan Dinar. As you can imagine, this is no longer the case in Tripoli.
Additionally, like Libya, both Syria and Iran are two of the world’s last remaining nation states who both have state-run central banks and gold reserves which fall outside of the world’s private central banking syndicate.
Needless to say, you can see an obvious pattern emerging here.
QuoteIt’s worth pointing out here that when NATO sacked Libya in 2011, one of the first items that came into question was the gold in Libya’s state-run central bank. Prior to the NATO takeover of that country, Libya had one of the highest per capita gold reserves in the world, alongside Lebanon, giving Libya a distinct advantage should it carry out former Libyan leader Muammar Muhammad al-Gaddafi’s long-term financial transition to a gold-backed Libyan Dinar. As you can imagine, this is no longer the case in Tripoli.
Additionally, like Libya, both Syria and Iran are two of the world’s last remaining nation states who both have state-run central banks and gold reserves which fall outside of the world’s private central banking syndicate.
Needless to say, you can see an obvious pattern emerging here.
Another interesting related article on gold here: http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/03/21/the-latest-heist-us-quietly-snatches-the-ukraines-gold-reserves/
Keep going Westy and you can accuse Russia of taking everyones gold. :chuckle:
Keep going Westy and you can accuse Russia of taking everyones gold. :chuckle:
I never mentioned Russia took any country's gold. I'm saying your sources are getting worse and I didn't think that was possible.
Iskra seems to be the main source used by most websites.
A curious story, and one which should be taken with a mine of salt, has surfaced out of the pro-Russian newspaper Iskra, which reports - so far on an entirely unsubstantiated basis - that last Friday, in a mysterious operation under the cover of night, Ukraine's gold reserves were promptly loaded onboard an unmarked plane, which subsequently took the gold to the US.
Keep going Westy and you can accuse Russia of taking everyones gold. :chuckle:
I never mentioned Russia took any country's gold. I'm saying your sources are getting worse and I didn't think that was possible.
Go Google "Ukraine missing gold" and you will find a plethora of stories. All point to convenient invasions and/or gold sent to the US for safekeeping that is not returned. All point the finger in one direction.
Example: http://rt.com/op-edge/170948-germany-gold-us-sovereignty/
Keep going Westy and you can accuse Russia of taking everyones gold. :chuckle:
I never mentioned Russia took any country's gold. I'm saying your sources are getting worse and I didn't think that was possible.
Go Google "Ukraine missing gold" and you will find a plethora of stories. All point to convenient invasions and/or gold sent to the US for safekeeping that is not returned. All point the finger in one direction.
Example: http://rt.com/op-edge/170948-germany-gold-us-sovereignty/
The Libya, Iran, Syria angle is an interesting one though.
QuoteIt’s worth pointing out here that when NATO sacked Libya in 2011, one of the first items that came into question was the gold in Libya’s state-run central bank. Prior to the NATO takeover of that country, Libya had one of the highest per capita gold reserves in the world, alongside Lebanon, giving Libya a distinct advantage should it carry out former Libyan leader Muammar Muhammad al-Gaddafi’s long-term financial transition to a gold-backed Libyan Dinar. As you can imagine, this is no longer the case in Tripoli.
Additionally, like Libya, both Syria and Iran are two of the world’s last remaining nation states who both have state-run central banks and gold reserves which fall outside of the world’s private central banking syndicate.
Needless to say, you can see an obvious pattern emerging here.
Another interesting related article on gold here: http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/03/21/the-latest-heist-us-quietly-snatches-the-ukraines-gold-reserves/
A most interesting article that I think is quite well written and reasonably factual: All-Out War in Ukraine: NATO’s ‘Final Offensive’ (http://www.globalresearch.ca/all-out-war-in-ukraine-natos-final-offensive/5415354)
Jews are controlling the US government
A most interesting article that I think is quite well written and reasonably factual: All-Out War in Ukraine: NATO’s ‘Final Offensive’ (http://www.globalresearch.ca/all-out-war-in-ukraine-natos-final-offensive/5415354)
A most interesting article that I think is quite well written and reasonably factual: All-Out War in Ukraine: NATO’s ‘Final Offensive’ (http://www.globalresearch.ca/all-out-war-in-ukraine-natos-final-offensive/5415354)
This scenario would virtually guarantee a nuclear attack on K'yiv.
A most interesting article that I think is quite well written and reasonably factual: All-Out War in Ukraine: NATO’s ‘Final Offensive’ (http://www.globalresearch.ca/all-out-war-in-ukraine-natos-final-offensive/5415354)
Odd how many here obsess about the source when they disagree with the content, but are more than happy to claim something they support as valid even when it comes from a very questionable source. Everyone is happy to quote the Moscow Times that pretends to be a proper newspaper but in fact is a foreign funded propaganda website.
I rely less on the authors of an article or site and more on the actual content. One is free to agree or disagree or ignore. If one questioned the source of each link posted here, especially by the fanatical anti-Russian inclined, one would discount most links on the site.
All media has its own slant, all writers write from their own viewpoint. The view of some here seems to be if the source is pro-Russian, then its automatically invalid. But any mutterings they can find that happens to be anti-Russian suddenly has validity.
Doesnt work like that, why we have a no comment topic where people can post links to content they find interesting without being drowned out by a baying mob creating white noise. If a link I post doesn't happen to suit your viewpoint, how sad. You are free to post content you happen to agree with and the authors of which you personally approve of and have vetted extensively. :biggrin:QuoteJews are controlling the US government
That is a topic all on its own really.
Whilst I think much of the article lays out some interesting factual accuracies in an easy-to-swallow manner, I doubt the main thrust that NATO is planning a war there as suggested. That would inevitably inveigle Russia which they don't want yet.
I think the wet dream is regime change in Russia funded from outside and disguised as another "colour revolution", and for that to be attempted, Putin must be first painted as the enemy to the west which the article lays out well how that is happening.
This is why, in my opinion, that Russia has secured the statement from China (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=21492.msg387478#msg387478) that it and Russia should fight together to protect the interests of their countries and prevent the US driving a wedge between them.
Today, Lavrov has laid out that the dream of regime change is far from a secret (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30158978). I wrote about it here many times also.
Putin is paranoid about regime change.
Regarding Ukraine, Putin cannot afford for a popular uprising so close to home to be seen as successful. This is why Russia is arming and helping the separatists, to ensure that the country remains unsettled and unsuccessful.
This is also why Putin is opposed to any international action in Syria (although in addition to the regime change issue, Syria accounts for 10% of Russia's international arms sales and Russian intelligence is currently operating in Syria to support al-Assad).
I think this statement is farcical :ROFL:
If a presidential election was held now, Putin would win very easily - no need to cheat.
What western observers cannot credit is his popularity, instead they give credence to an opposition which in reality has little popular support...
Russia is a long time supporter (20+ years) of the Al Assad regime.
Russia is a long time supporter (20+ years) of the Al Assad regime.
The support goes back much further than that, Russia and the USSR before that were strong supporters of his father's regime.
Four more interesting links:
Russia has no intention of building a new Iron Curtain, says Putin (http://rbth.co.uk/politics/2014/11/24/russia_has_no_intention_of_building_a_new_iron_curtain_says_putin_41637.html?code=841f997f5bab63b23e4d216a99516b9a)
MH17: Malaysia’s Barring from Investigation Reeks of Cover-up (http://journal-neo.org/2014/11/28/mh17-malaysia-s-barring-from-investigation-reeks-of-cover-up/)
Top German Editor: CIA Bribing Journalists (http://russia-insider.com/en/tv_politics_media_watch/2014/11/05/04-27-30pm/top_german_editor_cia_bribing_journalists)
Is the CIA Running a Defamation Campaign Against Putin? (http://russia-insider.com/en/politics_media_watch/2014/11/04/02-02-59pm/cia_running_defamation_campaign_against_putin)
Manny that's impressive!! All Russian websites.
And this makes the content wrong?
And this makes the content wrong?
Manny that's impressive!! All Russian websites.And this makes the content wrong?
Aha, by default (if you ask West that is). ;D
And this makes the content wrong?
He did not refute the content yet...
This seems to admit that Russian units started this war in the ukraine.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-s-igor-strelkov-claims-responsibility-for-unleashing-war-in-ukraine/511584.html :biggrin:
http://www.mail.com/int/business/markets/3240274-western-sanctions-ruble-crash-hit-russians-hard.html#.1258-stage-hero1-6
http://www.mail.com/int/business/markets/3240274-western-sanctions-ruble-crash-hit-russians-hard.html#.1258-stage-hero1-6
Thanks for the laugh, NS1
"Western sanctions, ruble crash hit Russians hard"
An image speaks louder than 1000lieswords: illustration which "proves" the above is that of a lady in 10.000 USD fur coat, checking out the 5000+ USD designer dress...
Нам бы так жить!
;D ;D ;D
http://www.mail.com/int/business/markets/3240274-western-sanctions-ruble-crash-hit-russians-hard.html#.1258-stage-hero1-6
Thanks for the laugh, NS1
"Western sanctions, ruble crash hit Russians hard"
An image speaks louder than 1000lieswords: illustration which "proves" the above is that of a lady in 10.000 USD fur coat, checking out the 5000+ USD designer dress...
Нам бы так жить!
;D ;D ;D
Нет!
Think of how many dead animals she wears :(
There is 5 photos with the story, I thought it interesting, I posted it. I have never been to Moscow, so have no idea.http://www.mail.com/int/business/markets/3240274-western-sanctions-ruble-crash-hit-russians-hard.html#.1258-stage-hero1-6
Thanks for the laugh, NS1
"Western sanctions, ruble crash hit Russians hard"
An image speaks louder than 1000lieswords: illustration which "proves" the above is that of a lady in 10.000 USD fur coat, checking out the 5000+ USD designer dress...
Нам бы так жить!
;D ;D ;D
First bit of sense i have read for a while
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30278606
This is a well written article however it is intentionally misleading because I am sure that the writer knows these the points I mentioned above.
A survey among the Russian public about the allegation of Russian troops in Ukraine.
http://www.levada.ru/eng/volunteer-fighters
And a survey on Crimea.
http://www.levada.ru/eng/crimea
As for the first survey I would say "it is difficult to say" because I simply don't know what is going on there, and not because I'm not interested.
As for the second: "because otherwise Crimean people could have been subjected to violence by Ukrainian right-wing radicals" - that sounds quite possible. But on the other hand I saw some reports here of Russian troops riding businesses across the peninsula, who have been subjected to violence by Russiangangstroops.
Putin: Talking to Russia from position of strength is meaningless
[Bill's note: don't worry Obama never will]
As for the first survey I would say "it is difficult to say" because I simply don't know what is going on there, and not because I'm not interested.
As for the second: "because otherwise Crimean people could have been subjected to violence by Ukrainian right-wing radicals" - that sounds quite possible. But on the other hand I saw some reports here of Russian troops riding businesses across the peninsula, who have been subjected to violence by Russiangangstroops.
1. I haven't met a single Russian who was against unification (from hundreds of people i interacted with in the same period when the survey was conducted.)
2. After the initial excitement about the unification, i've heard many complaints - that refugees from Crimea are being positively discriminated, that they are overtaking jobs etc.
As for the first survey I would say "it is difficult to say" because I simply don't know what is going on there, and not because I'm not interested.
As for the second: "because otherwise Crimean people could have been subjected to violence by Ukrainian right-wing radicals" - that sounds quite possible. But on the other hand I saw some reports here of Russian troops riding businesses across the peninsula, who have been subjected to violence by Russiangangstroops.
1. I haven't met a single Russian who was against unification (from hundreds of people i interacted with in the same period when the survey was conducted.)
2. After the initial excitement about the unification, i've heard many complaints - that refugees from Crimea are being positively discriminated, that they are overtaking jobs etc.
That's not clear to me. Who they are (Tatars?), from whom they were escaped and why, and where do they live now?
As for the first survey I would say "it is difficult to say" because I simply don't know what is going on there, and not because I'm not interested.
As for the second: "because otherwise Crimean people could have been subjected to violence by Ukrainian right-wing radicals" - that sounds quite possible. But on the other hand I saw some reports here of Russian troops riding businesses across the peninsula, who have been subjected to violence by Russiangangstroops.
1. I haven't met a single Russian who was against unification (from hundreds of people i interacted with in the same period when the survey was conducted.)
2. After the initial excitement about the unification, i've heard many complaints - that refugees from Crimea are being positively discriminated, that they are overtaking jobs etc.
That's not clear to me. Who they are (Tatars?), from whom they were escaped and why, and where do they live now?
Russians from Crimea who moved to mainland.
As for the first survey I would say "it is difficult to say" because I simply don't know what is going on there, and not because I'm not interested.
As for the second: "because otherwise Crimean people could have been subjected to violence by Ukrainian right-wing radicals" - that sounds quite possible. But on the other hand I saw some reports here of Russian troops riding businesses across the peninsula, who have been subjected to violence by Russiangangstroops.
1. I haven't met a single Russian who was against unification (from hundreds of people i interacted with in the same period when the survey was conducted.)
2. After the initial excitement about the unification, i've heard many complaints - that refugees from Crimea are being positively discriminated, that they are overtaking jobs etc.
That's not clear to me. Who they are (Tatars?), from whom they were escaped and why, and where do they live now?
Russians from Crimea who moved to mainland.
So "refugees" is not the right word, is it? Did they move before the occupation or afterward?
That would be the literal translation from Russian, it is the right word. Not sure to what you refer as occupation though.
That would be the literal translation from Russian, it is the right word. Not sure to what you refer as occupation though.
Since this discussion is in English, refugee is: a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.
Occupation: the action, state, or period of occupying or being occupied by military force.
i.e. the action of taking over territory by force.
That would be the literal translation from Russian, it is the right word. Not sure to what you refer as occupation though.
Since this discussion is in English, refugee is: a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.
Occupation: the action, state, or period of occupying or being occupied by military force.
i.e. the action of taking over territory by force.
I think that in the given context you might have confused the terms "occupation" and "re-unification".
unification
[yoo-nuh-fi-key-shuh n]
noun
the process of unifying or uniting; union:
the unification of the 13 original colonies.
Whatever :)
No. I refer to the action of a government taking over territory from neighbor country by using force.
Whatever you call it, it doesn't change the fact that the region was given to Ukraine in 1991. And now they reclaim it back by force. If you give something to someone, it means you shall not reclaim it back later. Minos by using force.
Besides, tell it to the tourists that abandoned the resorts. Even much of those who visited the last summer stated they will not return. So there your "re-unification" goes...
No. I refer to the action of a government taking over territory from neighbor country by using force.
Whatever you call it, it doesn't change the fact that the region was given to Ukraine in 1991. And now they reclaim it back by force. If you give something to someone, it means you shall not reclaim it back later. Minos by using force.
Besides, tell it to the tourists that abandoned the resorts. Even much of those who visited the last summer stated they will not return. So there your "re-unification" goes...
The logical fallacies in the above text make any further comment unnecessary.
No. I refer to the action of a government taking over territory from neighbor country by using force.
Whatever you call it, it doesn't change the fact that the region was given to Ukraine in 1991. And now they reclaim it back by force. If you give something to someone, it means you shall not reclaim it back later. Minos by using force.
Besides, tell it to the tourists that abandoned the resorts. Even much of those who visited the last summer stated they will not return. So there your "re-unification" goes...
The logical fallacies in the above text make any further comment unnecessary.
That is an arrogant comment.
Sharon, my take on the situation differs from that which is held by some on this forum, which does not mean i don't like and respect them, or the other way around, no? A statement can be presumptuous, which doesn't mean i am, and i can dislike an opinion, while i like the person who posts it. (I thought that goes without saying.)
ETA: given that you edited your post - the same goes for you, my friend: Would be more appropriate to provide reference to support your claims. But I don't expect it. :)
Sharon, my take on the situation differs from that which is held by some on this forum, which does not mean i don't like and respect them, or the other way around, no? A statement can be presumptuous, which doesn't mean i am, and i can dislike an opinion, while i like the person who posts it. (I thought that goes without saying.)
Volshe,
Usually I form an opinion based on the information that is available for me at the moment. You definitely know better than me about the history and the complexity of the region. Perhaps if I new what you know, we would not differ in opinions.
If you find contradiction or inaccuracy in my comment above, you are welcome to enlighten me (by posting link to articles, reference and the like).
Sharon, my take on the situation differs from that which is held by some on this forum, which does not mean i don't like and respect them, or the other way around, no? A statement can be presumptuous, which doesn't mean i am, and i can dislike an opinion, while i like the person who posts it. (I thought that goes without saying.)
Volshe,
Usually I form an opinion based on the information that is available for me at the moment. You definitely know better than me about the history and the complexity of the region. Perhaps if I new what you know, we would not differ in opinions.
If you find contradiction or inaccuracy in my comment above, you are welcome to enlighten me (by posting link to articles, reference and the like).
My comments in red:
Sharon, i think we are all equally (dis)informed.
Not sure. My only source of information comes from here.
I've posted it before - i do not think that facts convince anyone,
Perhaps I'm an exception. Some stuff who is shared here shifted my perception.
after all there are very few Socrates on this board (and i am certainly not one.) We find facts which suit our pre-held opinions, and the latter are formed by personal preferences.
I don't have pre-held opinions. I wanna know the truth, believe it or not.
I realize that many of you have ties with Ukraine, which influences your take on the situation, and ditto that my view is influenced by my own ties to Russia.
Fortunately I'm not one of them.
It's pretty clear that i won't change your opinion, even if i conducted a phd-worth research and shared it with you.
Why not? If we are not open minded how can we learn? Can be different opinions but still facts are facts, not opinions.
(Even that, a phd-worth research, would be a part of some paradigm, and paradigm is nothing else but summary of opinions of people who agreed to agree.)
If you and i can discuss things from different perspectives impersonally - good, if not, i choose to have a friend.
Ok then :)
According to UN International Court ruling of July 22, 2010, pursuant to Article 2, Chapter 1 of the United Nations Charter: "General international law contains no prohibition on declarations of independence."
Crimeans voted to join Russia in referendum. Russia officially recognized the results of the Crimean referendum on the base of Kosovo-precedent.
Ok then :)
According to UN International Court ruling of July 22, 2010, pursuant to Article 2, Chapter 1 of the United Nations Charter: "General international law contains no prohibition on declarations of independence."
Crimeans voted to join Russia in referendum. Russia officially recognized the results of the Crimean referendum on the base of Kosovo-precedent.
No problem. My claim is against some aggression of Russian authorities/troops towards some people and businesses. At least this is what has been reported by some sources who shared here.
A survey among the Russian public about the allegation of Russian troops in Ukraine.
http://www.levada.ru/eng/volunteer-fighters
And a survey on Crimea.
http://www.levada.ru/eng/crimea
Ok then :)
According to UN International Court ruling of July 22, 2010, pursuant to Article 2, Chapter 1 of the United Nations Charter: "General international law contains no prohibition on declarations of independence."
Crimeans voted to join Russia in referendum. Russia officially recognized the results of the Crimean referendum on the base of Kosovo-precedent.
No problem. My claim is against some aggression of Russian authorities/troops towards some people and businesses. At least this is what has been reported by some sources who shared here.
That i've heard too. Not being there, i can't claim with certainty, but knowing what was going on here - sadly, it wouldn't surprise me.
A survey among the Russian public about the allegation of Russian troops in Ukraine.
http://www.levada.ru/eng/volunteer-fighters
And a survey on Crimea.
http://www.levada.ru/eng/crimea
The survay is flawed. There are ten percent of the population in Crimea are tarters and they are surely unhappy with being in Russia. Then there are gays and Ukrainains that Russian is a second language to are also not as happy. The hand picked a part of the population that did not include them and others that would not be happy with Russia if they even bothered to collected any data at all. I understand that in Russia most people do not believe their troops are in Ukraine but try taking that survay in Lugansk where everybody knows the Russians army is involved.
Yea no body in Russia think Crimea should not be part of Russia. What is new about this?
Perhaps those who are making these claims might want to share just who the targets are. let me help with one: Privatbank, owned by a thief and murderer by the name of Kolmoisky.
The survay is flawed. There are ten percent of the population in Crimea are tarters and they are surely unhappy with being in Russia. Then there are gays and Ukrainains that Russian is a second language to are also not as happy. The hand picked a part of the population that did not include them and others that would not be happy with Russia if they even bothered to collected any data at all. I understand that in Russia most people do not believe their troops are in Ukraine but try taking that survay in Lugansk where everybody knows the Russians army is involved.
Congrats to the Krim population for the unification. Now they have the fair share of rights andbeing screwedduties :nod:
Yea no body in Russia think Crimea should not be part of Russia. What is new about this?
Penny dropped has it? Wipe the egg off your chin. Better to read it and the source next time before leaping in with your propaganda.
I have never been to Russia, maybe a good question or questions.
How many Russian's are up to date on current events such as these?
How much of this is even a concern to the average Russian?
Considering the average person in Russia or most countries for that matter are trying to just survive.
I know here, the number one response to government polls over issues in last few years.
Is Jobs and economy. How much is this the same or different in Russia?
Also looked on a few questions, answer was not sure, this normally indicated, they don't know
or not up to date on issues.
I realize that, but as you will admit, many locals in your country or mine, don't care and don't have a clue about many currentAlso looked on a few questions, answer was not sure, this normally indicated, they don't know
or not up to date on issues.
How is "not sure" not up to date? Not the same thing.
I am up to date on UK politics, we have a general election next year. I like Farage, but will he make a good PM? The honest answer is "not sure". But he wont win anyway. Milliband? No chance he will be a good PM even though (god help us) he may win. Cameron? He is no Thatcher but he is trying, but needs to grow a pair.
Point being, "not sure" doesn't mean "have no clue".
............... but try taking that survay in Lugansk where everybody knows the Russians army is involved.
Interesting view from a small faction in EU, the pirate party. Its leader said:
http://falkvinge.net/2015/01/17/putins-unreported-genius-on-ukraine-currency-warfare/
Interesting view from a small faction in EU, the pirate party. Its leader said:
http://falkvinge.net/2015/01/17/putins-unreported-genius-on-ukraine-currency-warfare/
Interesting view from a small faction in EU, the pirate party. Its leader said:
http://falkvinge.net/2015/01/17/putins-unreported-genius-on-ukraine-currency-warfare/
Having met him for work, i can only say his views (didn't have time to read this one yet, will do later in the day, in general) are very interesting and worth pondering on. Small faction, but quite influential, mind you. :)
Interesting view from a small faction in EU, the pirate party. Its leader said:
http://falkvinge.net/2015/01/17/putins-unreported-genius-on-ukraine-currency-warfare/
Having met him for work, i can only say his views (didn't have time to read this one yet, will do later in the day, in general) are very interesting and worth pondering on. Small faction, but quite influential, mind you. :)
The article was interesting, one of those where one can agree with almost every point except the overarching point of the piece.
http://www.1tv.ru/
Don't know how long this item will remain front-page, but the current item is talking about the attack on Mariupol.
Noteworthy according to 1tv.ru is that the soldiers of the Ukrainian army cannot speak russian but only English.
http://www.1tv.ru/
Don't know how long this item will remain front-page, but the current item is talking about the attack on Mariupol.
Noteworthy according to 1tv.ru is that the soldiers of the Ukrainian army cannot speak russian but only English.
http://www.1tv.ru/
Don't know how long this item will remain front-page, but the current item is talking about the attack on Mariupol.
Noteworthy according to 1tv.ru is that the soldiers of the Ukrainian army cannot speak russian but only English.
That's an obvious lie. If they said "some" of the soldiers only spoke English
it might be somewhat credible, but if ALL the Army personnel spoke English then
the results in the field would be quite a bit different wouldn't they.
They didn't mention "some" or "all" or whatever. They pointed out that Ukrainian military officers spoke only English and not Russian/Ukrainian.
They highlighted 3 cases.
Where is the lie?
News about training Ukrainian national guard.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/land/army/2015/01/21/ukraine-us-army-russia/22119315/
News about training Ukrainian national guard.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/land/army/2015/01/21/ukraine-us-army-russia/22119315/
Excellent :thumbsup:
If Russia can send in troops and military equipment into Ukraine UNINVITED then surely us doing the same INVITED shouldn't be an issue, now should it?
They said "The" soldiers of the Ukrainian army cannot speak Russian
but only English. Which means the soldiers of the Ukrainian army can
only speak English.
News about training Ukrainian national guard.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/land/army/2015/01/21/ukraine-us-army-russia/22119315/
Excellent :thumbsup:
If Russia can send in troops and military equipment into Ukraine UNINVITED then surely us doing the same INVITED shouldn't be an issue, now should it?
Much like trying to put out a fire with gasoline
Let me amend that for you:
They said "The" soldiers of the Ukrainian army (shown in this video) cannot speak Russian
but only English.
Sorry if my omission created a false illusion that 1tv.ru lied.
Watching the 1tv.ru site this was immediately clear to me, and my Russian is not even passable.
Can't make this stuff up:And this right here is the sad part. Namely that the average Igor & Marina Russian will suffer because of Putin's land grab. Certainly Vlad and his rich cronies will not have to worry about having enough money to put food on the table for their families.
http://news.yahoo.com/not-bread-alone-russians-urged-without-putin-143533875.html
EAT LESS FOR PUTIN:
Moscow (AFP) - Eat less, use beetroot instead of lipstick, swap French lingerie for Russian-made cotton panties and remember that hardships are a test from God.
These and other tips are being offered to Russians by lawmakers, top policy makers and the Russian Orthodox Church as the gravity of the economic crisis sinks in and prices soar.
The country pulled through great hardships before, officials say, and people should tighten their belts for their leader Vladimir Putin and a great Russia amid the confrontation with the West over Ukraine.
"I lived both under Gorbachev and Yeltsin but Putin is the first president for whom I am being asked to eat less," one Russian, Andrey Kozenko, said on Twitter.
His quip would be funny if it were not sad.
Government members openly admit they lack a plan to tackle the crisis brought on by falling oil prices and Western sanctions and warn it may last for years.
From affluent Moscow to the far-flung regions, Russians are feeling the pain: with some foregoing foreign travel while others pinch pennies to buy food.
Last week lawmaker Ilya Gaffner was monitoring price hikes at a grocery store in the Urals city of Yekaterinburg when an elderly woman told him she could no longer afford sugar for her disabled son.
His advice to her? Eat less.
People queue to buy tokens at an underground station in St. Petersburg, on December 26, 2014 (AFP Ph …
"If there is not enough money you have to remember that we are Russians, we survived hunger and cold, we have to think about our health and eat less," said the deputy in the Sverdlovsk region legislative chamber, who sports a double chin.
His remarks caused outrage -- and a barrage of unprintable online comments -- forcing a senior ruling party lawmaker to recommend that Gaffner think twice before speaking next time.
- 'Eat less for Putin' -
The deputy had no sooner apologised for his faux pas than a top Putin ally told the world Russians indeed were ready for sacrifices, especially when their leader was under pressure.
"We will withstand all hardships in this country, eat less food, use less electricity," First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov told Davos elites at the World Economic Forum.
"If a Russian feels external pressure, he will never give his leader up," said Shuvalov, who is believed to be one of the wealthiest government officials.
Patriarch Kirill also called for modesty as he addressed millions on January 7 when Orthodox Christians celebrate Christmas.
"During crisis we overcome evil," the powerful head of the Russian Orthodox Church said in televised remarks. He added that those who are thinking of starting a family should not put their plans on hold due to the crisis because Russians were never rich.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has warned the ecoomic crisis may last for several years (AFP Photo …
"This prosperity brought on by the froth of petrodollars, it really came just recently."
A senator from the parliament's upper house also chimed in, suggesting that women can use natural colours from vegetables to paint their faces like their foremothers did in ancient times.
"If they must use makeup on their lips -- no problem there is beet, it's natural and chemicals would not enter the body," Igor Chernyshev, deputy head of the social policies committee, said in December.
"And our women look better in lingerie made at a Moscow factory than that made in France."
I have found Manny's Russian twin!
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other/the-blame-game-in-ukraine/vp-AA8E23Z?ocid=BDT5DHP
A 25 minute program with 3 panel guests. One is an American formally with the NATO, another is a Ukrainian, and the final guest is a guy from Voice of Russia.
Click on the link and it will take you to the Aljazeera program
Don't forget that on the 'invasion' issue that the Ukrainian military have once again said, at the highest level, that there are no Russian armed forces in Ukraine.
Don't forget that on the 'invasion' issue that the Ukrainian military have once again said, at the highest level, that there are no Russian armed forces in Ukraine.
In Don's programme, the Ukrainian bloke said there were 12,000 of them. Hence the question from the Russian as to why have none been captured bar five on leave who strayed over the border by a km.
Even better, with all these American satellites everywhere, strange that they not only missed MH17 but cant seem to find 12k Russian soldiers and their kit flowing over the border into Novorossiya. Maybe they need to invest in some Russian satellites as the American ones don't seem to work.
The Dmitry guy in Moscow is on the money indeed.
The Dmitry guy in Moscow is on the money indeed.
Yes its not surprising you would say that. Dmitry basically says everything you have been going on about here at RUA for several months. He works for 'Voice of Russia.' I'm too lazy to search what that is, although I have an idea, but I'll wait for Westy to get off the back 9 to fill us in. Unless you would like to tell us?
Ironically, it did not take long before the low-resolution images had been discredited as a propaganda stunt. The images were from the commercial satellite image provider Digital Globe. Moreover, the images showed a joint Russian – Ukrainian military exercise which had been held eight months earlier. The Russian General Staff responded, saying that “the images were taken some eight months before the stated date”. RIA Novosti quotes the General Staff official as saying:
“These shots, which were distributed by NATO, show Russian Armed Forces units in the Southern Military District, which in the summer of last year, were taking part in various drills, including near the Ukrainian border”.
This begs a number of questions, like why didn’t the U.S. State Department refute the statement that was issued by the Russian General Staff, but instead continued repeating the narrative that was based on the Digital Globe, commercial satellite images.
Hasn’t the USA access to better satellite images than those commercial, low-resolution photos? Or were low-resolution photos exactly what NATO’s and the Pentagon’s war planners had in mind as perfect, for pulling the wool over the eyes of the public?
Wasn't someone here trying to convince us of the same shit with MH17 using similar photos only with a fighter jet placed on the photo?
Oh Westy, Digital Globe? Really? Does the US not have its own satellites? :chuckle:
QuoteIronically, it did not take long before the low-resolution images had been discredited as a propaganda stunt. The images were from the commercial satellite image provider Digital Globe. Moreover, the images showed a joint Russian – Ukrainian military exercise which had been held eight months earlier. The Russian General Staff responded, saying that “the images were taken some eight months before the stated date”. RIA Novosti quotes the General Staff official as saying:
“These shots, which were distributed by NATO, show Russian Armed Forces units in the Southern Military District, which in the summer of last year, were taking part in various drills, including near the Ukrainian border”.
This begs a number of questions, like why didn’t the U.S. State Department refute the statement that was issued by the Russian General Staff, but instead continued repeating the narrative that was based on the Digital Globe, commercial satellite images.
Hasn’t the USA access to better satellite images than those commercial, low-resolution photos? Or were low-resolution photos exactly what NATO’s and the Pentagon’s war planners had in mind as perfect, for pulling the wool over the eyes of the public?
http://nsnbc.me/2014/09/21/open-skies-vs-fakes-documenting-russian-troops-at-ukraines-borders-a-piece-of-cake/
Some of you lot will swallow any old tripe your government feeds you. >>Here<< (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Winnipeg,+MB,+Canada/@49.8528925,-97.1458681,227a,20y,270h,41.64t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x52ea73fbf91a2b11:0x2b2a1afac6b9ca64) is a random Google earth shot in Winnipeg. See the difference between that and the "NATO" images? Do you think NATO might be able to do better?
Take your time........
Some of you lot will swallow any old tripe your government feeds you. >>Here<< (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Winnipeg,+MB,+Canada/@49.8528925,-97.1458681,227a,20y,270h,41.64t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x52ea73fbf91a2b11:0x2b2a1afac6b9ca64) is a random Google earth shot in Winnipeg. See the difference between that and the "NATO" images? Do you think NATO might be able to do better?
Wasn't someone here trying to convince us of the same shit with MH17 using similar photos only with a fighter jet placed on the photo?
Changing the subject?
The US doesn't use photos from its own satellites because it doesn't want to show Russia, China, etc its satellite capabilities.
The US doesn't use photos from its own satellites because it doesn't want to show Russia, China, etc its satellite capabilities.
Oh, that will be it then. :ROFL:
So the debate here is whether or not there are Russian troops in eastern Ukraine. Is this matter?And ultimately what is the point of all this finger pointing? Is there a definitive answer we can arrive at?
Perhaps more important to ask who have started the conflict? i.e. the first move towards the disaster. i.e. the Maiden thing? That's beyond satellite capabilities, no?
Interesting article in Slate on Putin's plan in Ukraine. The author seems to be saying that Putin is planning on a long term war and will continue gobbling up pieces of Ukraine no matter what the west does.
One interesting part seems particularly relevant:
The point of the war is not to achieve a victory. The point is to prevent the emergence of anything resembling a prosperous, European Ukraine, because such a state would pose an ideological threat to Putinism.
In this part of the article the author is saying pretty much what I've been saying all along, Putin wants Ukraine under Russian control. Failing that Ukraine must not become part of the EU which would be an insult to Putin.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/02/saving_ukraine_and_stopping_vladimir_putin_the_west_needs_a_long_term_strategy.html
The US doesn't use photos from its own satellites because it doesn't want to show Russia, China, etc its satellite capabilities.
Oh, that will be it then. :ROFL:
... Russia obviously has an extraordinarily powerful military and given the length of the Russian border with Ukraine, given the history between Russia and Ukraine, expecting that if Russia is determined that Ukraine can fully rebuff a Russian army has always been unlikely.
The US doesn't use photos from its own satellites because it doesn't want to show Russia, China, etc its satellite capabilities.
Oh, that will be it then. :ROFL:
Interesting that rubbish about 'classified' images.
NATO and the US know what is, or is not, present in Ukraine but they can not show what is not there.
Something half sensible on the BBC for a change: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30278606
Something half sensible on the BBC for a change: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30278606
Something half sensible on the BBC for a change: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30278606
The framing of the piece is well off but some of that factual underpinning is OK.
One thought though, there is constant reference to the gap of Ukraine falling by a figure as small as just 7%. I wonder what it'd be absent services provided in respect of the civil war?
Based upon what is happening on the ground with real businesses the figure, at that level, seems way too low.
"The Ukrainian military has said it cannot start withdrawing heavy weapons from the front line in the east until the rebels stop shelling its positions (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31583413)."
This is not a problem; the separatists are always happy to receive donations of heavy weapons from K'yiv.
Putin: Ukrainian army is a NATO legion
Russian President Vladimir Putin said that the Ukrainian army was a NATO legion, the goal of which was not to pursue national interests of Ukraine, but to contain Russia geopolitically.
"We often say: the Ukrainian army, the Ukrainian army. In fact, who is fighting there? There are official units of the armed forces there indeed, partly, but largely, there are so-called nationalist volunteer battalions," Putin said while interacting with students at the National Mineral University in St. Petersburg.
"In fact, this is not an army, but a foreign legion, in this case, a NATO foreign legion, which, of course, does not pursue to protect Ukraine's national interests. They have different goals, and they are connected with objectives of geopolitical containment of Russia, which does not coincide with the national interests of the Ukrainian people," Russian President Vladimir Putin said.
read all about it here
http://english.pravda.ru/news/russia/26-01-2015/129617-putin_ukraine_nato_legion-0/
Financial war: USA tries to trigger wave of bankruptcies of Russian companies
The US government is trying all possible means of putting the pressure of sanctions on Russia. The US authorities do not stop at workaround ways to weaken the Russian currency and economy.
To achieve this goal and take advantage of the plunged ruble, the US government intends to resort to a technical trick to shorten the duration of existing loans and credits, which Russian banks, energy companies and arms companies have in European and American banks.
Washington tries to establish its lobby in the EU - in Brussels in particular. The USA will again discuss Russia's exclusion from the SWIFT payment system. The Americans had tried this step before, but the independent SWIFT organization refused to obey Washington. However, if the USA succeeds on this, the cash flow to Russian companies will be suppressed, Pravda.Ru reports.
read more here
http://english.pravda.ru/
Financial war: USA tries to trigger wave of bankruptcies of Russian companies
The US government is trying all possible means of putting the pressure of sanctions on Russia. The US authorities do not stop at workaround ways to weaken the Russian currency and economy.
To achieve this goal and take advantage of the plunged ruble, the US government intends to resort to a technical trick to shorten the duration of existing loans and credits, which Russian banks, energy companies and arms companies have in European and American banks.
Washington tries to establish its lobby in the EU - in Brussels in particular. The USA will again discuss Russia's exclusion from the SWIFT payment system. The Americans had tried this step before, but the independent SWIFT organization refused to obey Washington. However, if the USA succeeds on this, the cash flow to Russian companies will be suppressed, Pravda.Ru reports.
read more here
http://english.pravda.ru/
That will set in a new Cold War for decades. We all assume the troubles at the moment to be temporary, but Russia's economy will come back, there will be fight back against American companies (Bye bye McDonalds and Google for a start). If after the map in Ukraine is redrawn and sanctions are done America has pulled strokes like that, the retaliation will not stop, and a new long-term Cold War will be born. Which is what America seems to want.
(Bye bye McDonalds and Google for a start)
Quote(Bye bye McDonalds and Google for a start)
Not likely. Both are very popular and widely used here.
Manny which country do you think is going to win an economic Cold War? The Russian economy was, before the current sanctions, about 1/8th the size of the American economy. Add in the EU economy, plus the economies of Canada, Japan, Australia, NZ and a few others and that makes the Russian economy about 1/20th the size of its adversary.
McDonalds already got its ass kicked in Moscow, which I think was a taster.
Quote(Bye bye McDonalds and Google for a start)
Not likely. Both are very popular and widely used here.
Google is miles behind Yandex as a search engine in Russia (60+% v 20+% I recall). McDonalds already got its ass kicked in Moscow, which I think was a taster.Manny which country do you think is going to win an economic Cold War? The Russian economy was, before the current sanctions, about 1/8th the size of the American economy. Add in the EU economy, plus the economies of Canada, Japan, Australia, NZ and a few others and that makes the Russian economy about 1/20th the size of its adversary.
Why try to tag along Japan and Oz? The discussion is America.
Size isn't everything. Russia has way less debt and a lot of business with the BRICS in the pipeline. Yes it can be damaged short term, but Russia is already diversifying. Russia wont be bankrupted so easily, especially not when oil goes back up.
My point was, its not a one way street. A lot of American companies want a market share of Russia's 140m people. A lot of companies from elsewhere will happily step in and fill in voids, as we saw with food sanctions.
Sanctions cut both ways. Russia has a low debt economy. The people have low debt too. If America doesn't want to do business in Russia others will. America has a large, but high debt and weak economy. It is not as simple as you paint it Westy. If you knew more about business, you would know this.
Quote(Bye bye McDonalds and Google for a start)
Not likely. Both are very popular and widely used here.
Google is miles behind Yandex as a search engine in Russia (60+% v 20+% I recall). McDonalds already got its ass kicked in Moscow, which I think was a taster.Manny which country do you think is going to win an economic Cold War? The Russian economy was, before the current sanctions, about 1/8th the size of the American economy. Add in the EU economy, plus the economies of Canada, Japan, Australia, NZ and a few others and that makes the Russian economy about 1/20th the size of its adversary.
Why try to tag along Japan and Oz? The discussion is America.
Size isn't everything.
Russia has way less debt
a lot of business with the BRICS in the pipeline.
Yes it can be damaged short term, but Russia is already diversifying. Russia wont be bankrupted so easily, especially not when oil goes back up.
My point was, its not a one way street. A lot of American companies want a market share of Russia's 140m people. A lot of companies from elsewhere will happily step in and fill in voids, as we saw with food sanctions.
Sanctions cut both ways. Russia has a low debt economy. The people have low debt too. If America doesn't want to do business in Russia others will. America has a large, but high debt and weak economy. It is not as simple as you paint it Westy. If you knew more about business, you would know this.
The point about size has eluded you Westy. Huge companies with multi million dollar turnovers go broke. The underlying fundamentals are important. Ask yourself a question: Is the dollar currently where it is because the US suddenly started exporting more? More people abroad suddenly buying Buicks, Wrangler Jeans or other American products to drive this? Not that I see.
Now, given a choice between backing a huge economy/currency that is manipulated by QE and other fakery, and saddled with huge debt, or one that has low debt, money flowing from the ground but is smaller, most businessmen would favour the latter.
The point about size has eluded you Westy. Huge companies with multi million dollar turnovers go broke. The underlying fundamentals are important. Ask yourself a question: Is the dollar currently where it is because the US suddenly started exporting more?
Now, given a choice between backing a huge economy/currency that is manipulated by QE and other fakery, and saddled with huge debt, or one that has low debt, money flowing from the ground but is smaller, most businessmen would favour the latter.
A well-written article by a lady called Jennifer Cohagen. Well worth a read as it delves into some areas not yet discussed here: >> The Real Reason for War in Ukraine << (http://www.thicktoast.com/real-reason-for-war-in-ukraine/)
As usual, discussion on the article >>here<< (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=21499.msg399704#msg399704)
The US finally admits that Russia has invaded Ukraine. Despite what many in the media, western and Russian, say official US government spokespersons have seldom used the word 'invasion' to describe Russia's efforts in Ukraine.
Obama administration officials across departments have strenuously avoided calling the conflict an invasion for months, instead performing verbal contortions to describe an “incursion”, “violation of territorial sovereignty” and an “escalation of aggression”.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/04/victoria-nuland-russia-actions-ukraine-invasion
Remember if you want to discuss informative articles like this it must be done, for some strange reason, >>here<< (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=21499.msg399704#msg399704)
The US finally admits that Russia has invaded Ukraine. Despite what many in the media, western and Russian, say official US government spokespersons have seldom used the word 'invasion' to describe Russia's efforts in Ukraine.
Obama administration officials across departments have strenuously avoided calling the conflict an invasion for months, instead performing verbal contortions to describe an “incursion”, “violation of territorial sovereignty” and an “escalation of aggression”.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/04/victoria-nuland-russia-actions-ukraine-invasion
Remember if you want to discuss informative articles like this it must be done, for some strange reason, >>here<< (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=21499.msg399704#msg399704)
Except nobody actually cares what Nuland or the US thinks in Europe. :biggrin:
The US finally admits that Russia has invaded Ukraine.
Oil is no longer $100 a barrel
The US finally admits that Russia has invaded Ukraine. Despite what many in the media, western and Russian, say official US government spokespersons have seldom used the word 'invasion' to describe Russia's efforts in Ukraine.
Obama administration officials across departments have strenuously avoided calling the conflict an invasion for months, instead performing verbal contortions to describe an “incursion”, “violation of territorial sovereignty” and an “escalation of aggression”.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/04/victoria-nuland-russia-actions-ukraine-invasion
Remember if you want to discuss informative articles like this it must be done, for some strange reason, >>here<< (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=21499.msg399704#msg399704)
Except nobody actually cares what Nuland or the US thinks in Europe. :biggrin:
And yet you keep claiming that the only reason Europe is imposing sanctions on Russia is because of pressure from the US. So Europe must very much care what the US thinks.
Also if Europe didn't care what the US thinks it would tell the US to take all its military equipment and go back home but that doesn't happen so again those in power in Europe must very much care what the US thinks. It's just common sense. :coffeeread:
Oil is no longer $100 a barrel
That's because of the US production, also even with falling Rig count on a monthly basis US production is at it's highest for decades.
It's either a bad case of mismanagement or there's a little more behind it, mismanagement with natural resources isn't something normally attributed to the US, least not it's own.
Still, I hear Putin has his culprits for the shooting in Moscow, surely something positive, no doubt these guys will get a fair trial :chuckle:
Russia will not be kicked out of the SWIFT system, much to the dismay of the US. It seems SWIFT have given Russia a seat on the board.QuoteNow, SWIFT is technically organized as a ‘Cooperative Society’ and governed by a board of directors.
There are 25 available board seats, and each seat is allocated for a three-year term to a specific country.
The United States, Belgium, France, Germany, UK, and Switzerland each hold two seats. A handful of other countries hold just one seat. And of course, most countries don’t hold any seats at all.
Here’s what’s utterly hilarious—
On Monday afternoon, not only did SWIFT NOT kick Russia out… but they announced that they were actually giving a BOARD SEAT to Russia.
This is basically the exact opposite of what the US government was pushing for.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-12/wests-plan-drop-russia-swift-hilariously-backfires
Two days after China announced they were within months of implementing their own version of SWIFT to compete and perhaps overtake the U.S. dollar as the globally recognized reserve currency, the West does a U-Turn and has accepted Russia as a voting member of their financial messaging and interchange system. This move on March 11 comes just months after the U.S. threatened the Eurasian oil giant with being locked out of SWIFT over the Ukraine conflict, and appears now to be an act of desperation as the dollar becomes less and less of a factor in global trade.
This article (http://www.blacklistednews.com/Currency_Wars%3A_In_desperate_move,_SWIFT_adds_Russia_to_its_board_as_a_voting_member/42611/0/38/38/Y/M.html) says this:QuoteTwo days after China announced they were within months of implementing their own version of SWIFT to compete and perhaps overtake the U.S. dollar as the globally recognized reserve currency, the West does a U-Turn and has accepted Russia as a voting member of their financial messaging and interchange system. This move on March 11 comes just months after the U.S. threatened the Eurasian oil giant with being locked out of SWIFT over the Ukraine conflict, and appears now to be an act of desperation as the dollar becomes less and less of a factor in global trade.
This article (http://www.blacklistednews.com/Currency_Wars%3A_In_desperate_move,_SWIFT_adds_Russia_to_its_board_as_a_voting_member/42611/0/38/38/Y/M.html) says this:QuoteTwo days after China announced they were within months of implementing their own version of SWIFT to compete and perhaps overtake the U.S. dollar as the globally recognized reserve currency, the West does a U-Turn and has accepted Russia as a voting member of their financial messaging and interchange system. This move on March 11 comes just months after the U.S. threatened the Eurasian oil giant with being locked out of SWIFT over the Ukraine conflict, and appears now to be an act of desperation as the dollar becomes less and less of a factor in global trade.
OK so what is the actual difference, in real terms, of USD capital flows? Those stats are readily available, so, why does the article not quote it.
Russia will not be kicked out of the SWIFT system, much to the dismay of the US. It seems SWIFT have given Russia a seat on the board.QuoteNow, SWIFT is technically organized as a ‘Cooperative Society’ and governed by a board of directors.
There are 25 available board seats, and each seat is allocated for a three-year term to a specific country.
The United States, Belgium, France, Germany, UK, and Switzerland each hold two seats. A handful of other countries hold just one seat. And of course, most countries don’t hold any seats at all.
Here’s what’s utterly hilarious—
On Monday afternoon, not only did SWIFT NOT kick Russia out… but they announced that they were actually giving a BOARD SEAT to Russia.
This is basically the exact opposite of what the US government was pushing for.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-12/wests-plan-drop-russia-swift-hilariously-backfires
I wonder who it was voted Russia in and who the competitors for the seat were. There would have been 24 votes and I expect that most of the 2 vote members would have voted against Russia, that suggests that most of the 1 vote members would have voted for Russia.
Swift’s board is reconfigured about every three years with shares, and subsequently, seats allocated on the basis of network usage. On this basis, in 2015, Russia gains a seat and Hong Kong loses one; Belgium gains an additional seat giving it two and the Netherlands loses a seat giving it one.
Changes in traffic volumes could be due to a change of business hub by an international bank or the location of infrastructure, such as Euroclear in Belgium. But mostly, it reflects changes in economic growth and trade. Unsurprisingly, China gained a board seat in the last reallocation back in 2012.
As economic power shifts to the east, more such changes can be expected. As long as institutions such as Swift can continue to provide a framework with open access and even treatment, all parties will benefit. The alternative is to misuse the global financial architecture as a sanctions tool and end up with a more factional and divided world economy.
America's Coup Machine: Destroying Democracy Since 1953
U.S. efforts to overthrow foreign governments leave the world less peaceful, less just and less hopeful.
Ukraine's former security chief, Aleksandr Yakimenko, has reported that the coup-plotters who overthrew the elected government in Ukraine, "basically lived in the (U.S.) Embassy. They were there every day." We also know from a leaked Russian intercept that they were in close contact with Ambassador Pyatt and the senior U.S. official in charge of the coup, former Dick Cheney aide Victoria Nuland, officially the U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs. And we can assume that many of their days in the Embassy were spent in strategy and training sessions with their individual CIA case officers.
To place the coup in Ukraine in historical context, this is at least the 80th time the United States has organized a coup or a failed coup in a foreign country since 1953........
http://www.alternet.org/world/americas-coup-machine-destroying-democracy-1953
America's Coup Machine: Destroying Democracy Since 1953
U.S. efforts to overthrow foreign governments leave the world less peaceful, less just and less hopeful.
Ukraine's former security chief, Aleksandr Yakimenko, has reported that the coup-plotters who overthrew the elected government in Ukraine, "basically lived in the (U.S.) Embassy. They were there every day." We also know from a leaked Russian intercept that they were in close contact with Ambassador Pyatt and the senior U.S. official in charge of the coup, former Dick Cheney aide Victoria Nuland, officially the U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs. And we can assume that many of their days in the Embassy were spent in strategy and training sessions with their individual CIA case officers.
To place the coup in Ukraine in historical context, this is at least the 80th time the United States has organized a coup or a failed coup in a foreign country since 1953........
http://www.alternet.org/world/americas-coup-machine-destroying-democracy-1953
Please be advised UK allied Coup Plotters remain unnamed so as to provide plausible deniability cover for #10 Downing Street. Good Cop Bad Cop team what Oh Hip Hip Cheerio carry on.
I missed this little gem, but other Russian-couples in Netherlands pointed me to this little gem:
http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-eus-russia-sanctions-extended-to-end-2015-tusk-2015-3?IR=T
It appears the sanctions are now tied to the implementation of Minsk-II , so if Kiev does NOT do its part, the sanctions will end towards Russia.
The basis for the start of the sanctions yes.I missed this little gem, but other Russian-couples in Netherlands pointed me to this little gem:
http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-eus-russia-sanctions-extended-to-end-2015-tusk-2015-3?IR=T
It appears the sanctions are now tied to the implementation of Minsk-II , so if Kiev does NOT do its part, the sanctions will end towards Russia.
NAUGHTY, Markje,
You know VERY well the basis for the sanctions - I posted the European Commission's reasoning and specifics
Why to you persist in 'ignoring' what is in black and white and quoting from the press - rather than the horses mouth.
The basis for the start of the sanctions yes.
But it appears an END of the sanctions is now tied to Ukraine's performance as well.
And I think quoting Donald "The president" Tusk of the EU is pretty much the horses mouth.
Crimea is NOT 'forgotten' and is considered legally still part of Ukraine by the VAST majority of the UN.
Crimea is in Russia now. Who thinks what about that doesn't really matter now does it? Its done. It wont change.
Sanctions aside, the important point about Minsk 2, unmentioned by most mass media outlets and those who feed them with 'news' and 'analysis' in the west is that much, indeed most, of the outcome of the Minsk 2 agreement is predicated upon actions taken by Ukraine.
The Novorossians were called upon to withdraw weapons and create their side of a zone of lower activity. This they have done. The next stages are down to the Kievans and those deadlines are already being broken.
As for sanctions, in one form or another they will continue for the indefinite future. The events in Ukraine were merely an excuse to impose them with the aim of weakening the Russian economy and the position of the government. Both those goals have failed. In any case they are now fully factored into the Russian economy and the economy is developing in a positive manner. More sanctions though are very unlikely, while the costs to the US are low there is a very significant cost to the EU and while this may well have been a part of US policy the EU is no longer minded to play beggar my neighbour when they can see that the game does not work.
Crimea is in Russia now. Who thinks what about that doesn't really matter now does it? Its done. It wont change.
You are deluded as Markje. How many places - where the status is internationally unrecognised - have you been to...
The people voted.
They chose overwhelmingly to join Russia..
in the face of a Ukraine puppet junta that is still bombing civilians a year later, supported by the EU and the US.
The people in Crimea were saved from war by Russia. No wonder they celebrated a year ago.
moby, now that you seem to have taken up westcoast's role as Googleexpert,
perhaps you'd care to show us in just what manner Kiev has been forwarding its obligations under the Minsk 2 agreement?
Show us how they kept to their agreed deadline in respect of withdrawal of heavy weapons, show us how they have given unfettered access to OSCE monitors, show us how deadlines for opening of face to face negotiations in respect of the special status of Novorossia have been met by Kiev, show us how Kiev is once again meeting its obligations in respect of pensions and other social transfers to people living in Novorossia and as refugees in other countries.
Please show us these things.
Sadly, it is not possible because none of these commitments have been held to.
Moby, I understand that your current blitz of posting is likely a displacement activity for your current lack of gainful employment but do you really think that misleading people, or trying to do so, is productive or helpful?
Utter BS.. if you've ever been to Crimea - you'd know that the RU military vastly outnumbered the UA presence and the UA military is no match for the Russians.I've been there every year, Your statement is bullshit.
You DID watch how easy it was to surround the UA bases and negate any 'threat'...It was easy because they never got orders to fight off the russians. Please read the news, it was plastered all over back then how the military complained they got 0 orders from kiev.
Crimea was NEVER at 'risk'
I my wildest Imagination I never thought I would have ever said this but Gawd how I love having Moby back. Life has molded you into a real conservative Russophile raconteur.Sorry, Cuffy... you couldn't be more mistaken.
Could you please be specific as to how it could be BS ? It was a combination of fact and opinion and a lot more realistic than your one-sided stance.Utter BS.. if you've ever been to Crimea - you'd know that the RU military vastly outnumbered the UA presence and the UA military is no match for the Russians.I've been there every year, Your statement is bullshit.You DID watch how easy it was to surround the UA bases and negate any 'threat'...It was easy because they never got orders to fight off the russians. Please read the news, it was plastered all over back then how the military complained they got 0 orders from kiev.
Crimea was NEVER at 'risk'
It was easy because they never got orders to fight off the russians. Please read the news, it was plastered all over back then how the military complained they got 0 orders from kiev.
Show us how they kept to their agreed deadline in respect of withdrawal of heavy weapons, show us how they have given unfettered access to OSCE monitors, show us how deadlines for opening of face to face negotiations in respect of the special status of Novorossia have been met by Kiev, show us how Kiev is once again meeting its obligations in respect of pensions and other social transfers to people living in Novorossia and as refugees in other countries.
Please show us these things.
Sadly, it is not possible because none of these commitments have been held to.
Moby, I understand that your current blitz of posting is likely a displacement activity for your current lack of gainful employment but do you really think that misleading people, or trying to do so, is productive or helpful?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/war-with-russia-now-much-likelier-ukraines-leading-nazi-dimitri-yarosh-gets-american-weapons-and-support/5441152
There's a possibility things may take a turn for the worst in eastern Ukraine.
I was reading today Russia is getting ready their 24th humanitarian aid convoy.http://www.globalresearch.ca/war-with-russia-now-much-likelier-ukraines-leading-nazi-dimitri-yarosh-gets-american-weapons-and-support/5441152
There's a possibility things may take a turn for the worst in eastern Ukraine.
Seems only fair. Putin has right wing militias in Ukraine under the auspices of the Russian government.
I was reading today Russia is getting ready their 24th humanitarian aid convoy.http://www.globalresearch.ca/war-with-russia-now-much-likelier-ukraines-leading-nazi-dimitri-yarosh-gets-american-weapons-and-support/5441152
There's a possibility things may take a turn for the worst in eastern Ukraine.
Seems only fair. Putin has right wing militias in Ukraine under the auspices of the Russian government.
Usually there is an escalation of activity shortly after.
Most predictions are for the fighting to resume in late April.
Some areas the fighting hasn't stopped
http://m.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/on-anniversary-of-ukraine-war-shelling-still-shattering-lives/articleshow/46828234.cms
I missed this little gem, but other Russian-couples in Netherlands pointed me to this little gem:
http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-eus-russia-sanctions-extended-to-end-2015-tusk-2015-3?IR=T
It appears the sanctions are now tied to the implementation of Minsk-II , so if Kiev does NOT do its part, the sanctions will end towards Russia.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32332433
Putin condemns Kiev over 'blockade' of east Ukraine
An excellent article found by Tom Cat and posted in another topic: http://novorossia.today/us-training-nazis-western-media-providing-cover-2/
Manny, this one's for your enjoyment.
It's as if the author read your posts, and wrote this article. :nod:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/04/u-s-train-nazi-troops-ukraine-starting-april-20th.html
U.S. to Start Training Nazi Troops in Ukraine, on April 20th, Hitler’s Birthday
QuoteJust hold your territory, don’t go on offensive. There’s no help for the Russians there, no support – the locals hate them. Civilians have no jobs and no peace because of them. Everybody is dying from idleness and even from hunger. This is yet another Holodomor. Both in Lugansk and Donetsk. All this made me stutter for a couple of weeks. Now I’d like to fight for the other side. Against these people, not against the civilians. This is banditry, I can’t find no other name for it.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/war/1072016-latvian-rebel-tells-of-banditry-in-the-donbas.html
http://www.unian.info/war/1072016-latvian-rebel-tells-of-banditry-in-the-donbas.html
QuoteThere's really no way to sugarcoat it: The rest of world believes that the United States is the country that poses the greatest threat to world peace, beating out all challengers by a wide margin.
This is the conclusion of a massive world opinion poll conducted by Win/Gallup International and released at the close of 2013. The poll, which was first conducted in 1977, asked over 66,000 thousand people across 65 countries this year a variety of questions about the world, including which country they would most like to call home, whether or not the world is becoming a generally better place and which country poses the greatest threat to world peace.
The U.S. was voted the biggest threat by far, garnering 24 percent of the vote. Pakistan was a very distant second with 8 percent, followed by China (6 percent) and Afghanistan (5 percent).
Perhaps not surprisingly, Americans had a slightly different view of the international troublemakers, naming Iran the top threat. Yet while Afghanistan garnered the second-most votes among American respondents, they also voted the U.S. among the most threatening nations -- in an unenviable veritable tie for third place with North Korea.
Poll source: http://www.wingia.com/en/services/about_the_end_of_year_survey/global_results/7/33/
Article source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/02/greatest-threat-world-peace-country_n_4531824.html
The world will be overrun by ISIS sponsored by Saudi and Gulf Oil wealth anyway so the "world" can all go fook off and die.
The USA will always defend its and its allies interests - most of Manny's country men are happy that an extremely powerful USA considers Great Britain not only an ally but its moral authority so Manny's treasonous rants to his own crowns best interests not withstanding when Saudis and ISIS over run the EU and UK by 5 kids to each of 4 wives replacement birth rate (The Euros and Ukains will eventually be replaced - already happening in Moscow when calls to prayers shut down half the city's streets) well we still have plenty of nukes to take care of the problem. Unfortunately mid east oil is a natural radiation shield.
There's still plenty of Islamic nations where women go topless- and nearly 'bottomless' on the beach...
There's still plenty of Islamic nations where women go topless- and nearly 'bottomless' on the beach...
Tell us five.
I am told it is ONE wife and her three Sisters (sister wives that is)... more than one way to skin a cat or EU, UK, USA and Oh Canada Immigration Regulations...
There's still plenty of Islamic nations where women go topless- and nearly 'bottomless' on the beach...
Tell us five.
1) is a secular country, not muslim, no matter how much Erdogan wants it to be.
1/ Turkey - taken less than two weeks ago
2/ Egypt
3/ Bali...part of Indonesia
4/ Jordan
5/ Morocco
3/ Bali...part of Indonesia
Sorry but Bali is not muslem they are hindu.
I am told it is ONE wife and her three Sisters (sister wives that is)... more than one way to skin a cat or EU, UK, USA and Oh Canada Immigration Regulations...
'I was told' - by a 'reliable source' is so often the 'excuse' of the idiot, Cuffy :chuckle:
1) is a secular country, not muslim, no matter how much Erdogan wants it to be.
1/ Turkey - taken less than two weeks ago
2/ Egypt
3/ Bali...part of Indonesia
4/ Jordan
5/ Morocco
2) Since Mubarak is gone there, the government is obviously too much in tatters to care about nude sunbathing by tourists.
3) Not muslim either, mentioned by others.
4) I can't comment, not been here.
5) Tripadvisor advises against it, as it is strictly forbidden. Never been here either.
So even if i have to forgo 2 as I have 0 experience, your list is deemed 'wanting'.
3/ Bali...part of Indonesia
Sorry but Bali is not muslem they are hindu.
Bali itself may be Hindu but Bali is part of Indonesia and Indonesia is by far the most populous Islamic nation. Bali is rather famous for its nude beaches, especially with the Aussies. There was a bombing there a few years back, blamed on, what else Muslim terrorists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombings
1/ Turkey - is a secular country, not muslim, no matter how much Erdogan wants it to be.
2/ Egypt - Since Mubarak is gone there, the government is obviously too much in tatters to care about nude sunbathing by tourists.
3/ Bali...part of Indonesia
Sorry but Bali is not muslem they are hindu.
4/ Jordan - I can't comment, not been here.
5/ Morocco - Tripadvisor advises against it, as it is strictly forbidden. Never been here either.
So even if i have to forgo 2 as I have 0 experience, your list is deemed 'wanting'.
Now that you have crossed the line to name calling
3/ Bali...part of Indonesia
Sorry but Bali is not muslem they are hindu.
Bali itself may be Hindu but Bali is part of Indonesia and Indonesia is by far the most populous Islamic nation. Bali is rather famous for its nude beaches, especially with the Aussies. There was a bombing there a few years back, blamed on, what else Muslim terrorists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombings
Let me guess. You have never been to Indonesia?
3/ Bali...part of Indonesia
Sorry but Bali is not muslem they are hindu.
))) Yankee, last time I checked Bali was very much part of Indonesia - which is without question - prominently Islam
A side note for you. In Indonesia there are four recognized religions. As such, it is not a muslim country.
You will also see women breast feeding on the streets. This is not an uncommon site.
I'm shoked. :chuckle:A side note for you. In Indonesia there are four recognized religions. As such, it is not a muslim country.
You will also see women breast feeding on the streets. This is not an uncommon site.
On pornhub* there's loads of muslim, arab, etc porn, they do it as well!!
* err, so I've heard......
It's 'sight' btw in this context!
I'm shoked. :chuckle:A side note for you. In Indonesia there are four recognized religions. As such, it is not a muslim country.
You will also see women breast feeding on the streets. This is not an uncommon site.
On pornhub* there's loads of muslim, arab, etc porn, they do it as well!!
* err, so I've heard......
It's 'sight' btw in this context!
Indonesia is a secular country and has the largest muslim population in the world. Bali is an exception and is not muslim. You should spend some time there and you will learn.
Does Nadia know of your......um, fetish? ;DI'm shoked. :chuckle:A side note for you. In Indonesia there are four recognized religions. As such, it is not a muslim country.
You will also see women breast feeding on the streets. This is not an uncommon site.
On pornhub* there's loads of muslim, arab, etc porn, they do it as well!!
* err, so I've heard......
It's 'sight' btw in this context!
Burka Blowjobs and Niquab nudes.....
Does Nadia know of your......um, fetish? ;DI'm shoked. :chuckle:A side note for you. In Indonesia there are four recognized religions. As such, it is not a muslim country.
You will also see women breast feeding on the streets. This is not an uncommon site.
On pornhub* there's loads of muslim, arab, etc porn, they do it as well!!
* err, so I've heard......
It's 'sight' btw in this context!
Burka Blowjobs and Niquab nudes.....
Indonesia is a secular country and has the largest muslim population in the world. Bali is an exception and is not muslim. You should spend some time there and you will learn.
Sighs, I did say I had the photos to prove it .... nothing to 'learn' and Bali is still part of Indonesia - a province of - Indonesia had a 87.2 percent of Islamic population - source 2010 Indonesian census..granted Bali, is majority Hindu.
As Bali is proving controversial I'll add Maldives to the list, too... Markje will point out that you can find Tripadvisor reports saying it's a 'no, no' but in secure resorts it's not ....
Point being.. Manny asked for five nations and I've named more than five where I have personal proof that such pastimes are not uncommon .
Stay ignorant if you want to.
Now that you have crossed the line to name calling
Mike,
1/ 'idiot' was in parentheses
2/ My point was aimed at posters who quote second hand gossip
3/ did you note the chuckle ?
Chillax, bro
'I was told' - by a 'reliable source' is so often the 'excuse' of the idiot, Cuffy :chuckle:
Now that you have crossed the line to name calling
Mike,
1/ 'idiot' was in parentheses
2/ My point was aimed at posters who quote second hand gossip
3/ did you note the chuckle ?
Chillax, bro
You are as honest as you are literate.'I was told' - by a 'reliable source' is so often the 'excuse' of the idiot, Cuffy :chuckle:
I'm pretty sure that Cuffy knows what parentheses are, but you don't.
Research, every morning at 8:30.....
Indonesia is a secular country and has the largest muslim population in the world. Bali is an exception and is not muslim. You should spend some time there and you will learn.
Sighs, I did say I had the photos to prove it .... nothing to 'learn' and Bali is still part of Indonesia - a province of - Indonesia had a 87.2 percent of Islamic population - source 2010 Indonesian census..granted Bali, is majority Hindu.
As Bali is proving controversial I'll add Maldives to the list, too... Markje will point out that you can find Tripadvisor reports saying it's a 'no, no' but in secure resorts it's not ....
Point being.. Manny asked for five nations and I've named more than five RESORTS where I have personal proof that such pastimes are not uncommon .
Moby named more than five RESORTS ]
There's still plenty of Islamic nations wHere women go topless- and nearly 'bottomless' on the beach...
Point being.. Manny asked for five nations and I've named more than five where I have personal proof that such pastimes are not uncommon .
Senile old buggers are welcome in Ukraine.
http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-appoints-us-senator-mccain-presidential-aide-003503382.html
Kiev (AFP) - Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has appointed John McCain, a hawkish US senator who has pressed Washington to send lethal weapons to war-torn Ukraine, as his advisor, his administration said.
Senile old buggers are welcome in Ukraine.
http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-appoints-us-senator-mccain-presidential-aide-003503382.html
You couldn't make that up!QuoteKiev (AFP) - Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has appointed John McCain, a hawkish US senator who has pressed Washington to send lethal weapons to war-torn Ukraine, as his advisor, his administration said.
With the Hunter Biden bloke in the gas company, and two of his pals (one being John Kerry’s stepson) installed nearby, the takeover of the country and its assets is almost complete. Some sites put a Jewish spin (http://www.texemarrs.com/082014/biden_kerry_ukrain_gas.htm) on it, but Jewish or not, why are most people pretending such things are irrelevant?
These people are only involved for personal enrichment. Does anyone here believe they are there for the good of Ukraine?
There is no EU for Ukraine. Did you not grasp that?
How does appointing relatives of pro war American politicians to a gas company assist "credibility with corruption issues"?
You lot will swallow any shite you are fed.
Do you need a photo of them with their hand in the cookie jar? Oh, forget that, you saw that already and thought it normal. :coffeeread:
Imagine Putin and Lavrov turned up in Baltimore having a lot to say and talking about arming rioters? You would be all like "WTF are these people doing here?", yes?
Yet you imagine American interference and war in Europe is somehow credible? :'(
You will see even more stupidity in the coming months.
Video with Texas, he's a real Texan fighting with the pro Russians.
http://novorossia.today/the-militia-texas-odessa-will-be-our-city-the-novorossia-s-army-is-going/
Video with Texas, he's a real Texan fighting with the pro Russians.
http://novorossia.today/the-militia-texas-odessa-will-be-our-city-the-novorossia-s-army-is-going/
If he survives will he face prosecution when he returns to the US like those going to the Middle East to join ISIS?
Video with Texas, he's a real Texan fighting with the pro Russians.
http://novorossia.today/the-militia-texas-odessa-will-be-our-city-the-novorossia-s-army-is-going/
If he survives will he face prosecution when he returns to the US like those going to the Middle East to join ISIS?
Doubtful this guy has the brain capacity to have ever thought about consequences.
The minsk agreement as long as it's in force, would protect him from criminal prosecution.
Westy, this would most likely clear all participants, after all both sides have hired guns.
5 Provide pardon and amnesty by way of enacting a law that forbids persecution and punishment of persons in relation to events that took place in particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts of Ukraine.
Westy, this would most likely clear all participants, after all both sides have hired guns.
5 Provide pardon and amnesty by way of enacting a law that forbids persecution and punishment of persons in relation to events that took place in particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts of Ukraine.
Westy, this would most likely clear all participants, after all both sides have hired guns.
5 Provide pardon and amnesty by way of enacting a law that forbids persecution and punishment of persons in relation to events that took place in particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts of Ukraine.
You are being silly. You can be damn sure that if the Obama administration captures this Texas guy, provided he lives and makes it back to the USA, he will spend a good deal of time in prison.
Interview with Texas, he came to Ukraine thru Russia, using Facebook for contacts.
Surprising he's not speaking English in this interview.
This has to be some propaganda :censored:
I posted this article here the other day, but was moved to western propaganda thread.
The novorossiya response is the other link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2015/05/25/what-people-in-southeast-ukraine-really-think-of-novorossiya/
http://novorossia.today/the-washington-post-what-people-in-southeast-ukraine-really-think-of-novorossiya/
I posted this article here the other day, but was moved to western propaganda thread.
The novorossiya response is the other link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2015/05/25/what-people-in-southeast-ukraine-really-think-of-novorossiya/
http://novorossia.today/the-washington-post-what-people-in-southeast-ukraine-really-think-of-novorossiya/
Read the topic title, this topic is for discussion on links posted here: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=21492.0
It is not for other stuff. Other stuff is liable to be moved to a more appropriate topic.
Ukrainian president visits Donetsk region
on: May 30, 2015Petr Poroshenko has pledged to pay $240,000 to the areas controlled by Kiev in the Donetsk region, the 112.ua TV channel has reported.Ukrainian President Petr Poroshenko has arrived on a working visit to Donbass, the Ukrainian leader’s press service said on Friday.“Ukrainian President Petr Poroshenko has begun a working trip to the Donetsk region,” the statement said.Poroshenko has pledged to pay 5 million hryvnia ($240,000) to the areas controlled by Kiev in the Donetsk region, the 112.ua TV channel has reported.Speaking to the employees of a machine-building plant in Kramatorsk, in eastern Ukraine, Poroshenko reiterated that he would hold a dialogue “only with those persons who will be elected by the Donetsk region citizens at the upcoming local polls.”Poroshenko told the 8th Kiev security forum on Thursday that he would hold a dialogue only with “the other Donbas.” Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk also said Kiev was ready to talk to the DPR and LPR leaders “only when they are behind bars.”The Donetsk republic’s envoy at the Minsk talks, Denis Pushilin, expressed concerns over this Ukrainian leader’s statement saying it comes ahead of the June 2 meeting of the Contact Group.“Poroshenko by his statements denounces his signature that he put in Minsk upon the guarantees of Germany and France and announced plans to comply with the Minsk agreements. Now he says that he is not going to do this,” Pushilin said.
http://novorossia.today/ukrainian-president-visits-donetsk-region/
Tom Cat, this is just more of the same. The same ideas and almost identical words have been used before. The Minsk 2 agreement has already failed because the Kievan administration is not following their commitments under the accord. I am sure that the timing is no accident.
Get the derisory amount of money mentioned, enough to build a decent house, no more.
Poroshenko appointed a governor for Odessa who has considerable experience in losing land to Russia.
http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-president-appoints-ex-georgia-leader-saakashvili-governor-131316539.html
Tom Cat, this is just more of the same. The same ideas and almost identical words have been used before. The Minsk 2 agreement has already failed because the Kievan administration is not following their commitments under the accord. I am sure that the timing is no accident.
Get the derisory amount of money mentioned, enough to build a decent house, no more.
IMHO, Poroshenko wants the war to resume. There's been ample time to negotiate for a peaceful settlement. Instead Poroshenko seems insistent on provoking, and escalating the situation to portray Ukraine as the victim
The minsk 2 , has not been a total failure. It's given both sides time to regroup, and prepare for the next offensive.
Poroshenko appointed a governor for Odessa who has considerable experience in losing land to Russia.
http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-president-appoints-ex-georgia-leader-saakashvili-governor-131316539.html
To be perfectly honest
I think that Poroshenko would follow through on Minsk 2 if he were allowed to do so. Remember he does not run the country, Yatseniuk as premier does. In addition I think that the power behind the throne is the US and it does not suit the US to allow matters to cool down.
I doubt that the. Kiev regime can mount a convincing offensive at this time. We will move to a model where the Novorossians will remain within the current borders and will be forced to strengthen the foundations of statehood. Ukraine, as a whole will be a costly thorn in the foot for Russia and that'll suit the US for the next few years.
I still think we will see a devolution to warlordism and local fiefdoms of which Novorossia will be the largest and most successful. Ask me why and I will say 'its about economics'.
With Kerry in Sochi and Nuland in Moscow, Bryan MacDonald on RT suggests the US is dumping Poroshenko Nuland in Moscow: Squeaky bum time for Kiev? (http://rt.com/op-edge/260485-nuland-moscow-ukraine-poroshenko/)
With Kerry in Sochi and Nuland in Moscow, Bryan MacDonald on RT suggests the US is dumping Poroshenko Nuland in Moscow: Squeaky bum time for Kiev? (http://rt.com/op-edge/260485-nuland-moscow-ukraine-poroshenko/)
I doubt Nuland, and Poroshenko are in agreement, as to what direction Ukraine is heading.
The Ukrainian military has become more aggressive in the last couple weeks. Every day there are accusations of the Ukrainian military violating the treaty. But then there are accusations from the other side as well.
Victoria Nuland proffered Russia a surprising turnabout settlement to end the Ukrainian hostilities. The proposal includes complete autonomy for eastern Ukraine, allowing eastern Ukraine to secede from Ukraine as a self ruled, nation. Further, Nuland proposed to remove Petro Poroshenko as Ukraine’s president by backing a new president that both Russia and the United States would agree upon.
It is expected by both Russia and the United States that efforts to remove Petro Poroshenko from office is currently underway. As long as the civil war prolongs the EU, Russia, and the United States will continue to lose money in the tune of billions of dollars.
Publicly the United States is telling the world that Russia is the aggressor and to put an end to Russian sanctions depends on Russia reigning in the Russian Freedom Fighters. Privately the United States gives a rat’s ass about eastern Ukraine. A quick settlement to the Ukraine civil war is in the West’ favor, and the US is proposing to Russia a way for the West and Russia to save face with Russia occupying troops in eastern Ukraine.
Petro Poroshenko will be forced to accept the deal under threat of facing crimes against humanity in the International Criminal Court in the Netherlands. Further meetings between Russia and the United States are expected to flourish through out 2015. It appears that Petro Poroshenko’s days as a wannabe Nazi dictator is rapidly approaching an end.
Victoria Nuland proffered Russia a surprising turnabout settlement to end the Ukrainian hostilities. The proposal includes complete autonomy for eastern Ukraine, allowing eastern Ukraine to secede from Ukraine as a self ruled, nation. Further, Nuland proposed to remove Petro Poroshenko as Ukraine’s president by backing a new president that both Russia and the United States would agree upon.
Publicly the United States is telling the world that Russia is the aggressor and to put an end to Russian sanctions depends on Russia reigning in the Russian Freedom Fighters. Privately the United States gives a rat’s ass about eastern Ukraine.Ummm... publicly the US gives a rat's ass about Ukraine. The situation there is last page news unless you get your 'news' from entertainment news channels like CNN or Fox. Most Americans I know believe Russia was justified in reclaiming Crimea and fully understand how this situation will end. Of course, they don't get their information from shows geared towards fanatics and old fogies who think the cold war is still going on.
QuoteVictoria Nuland proffered Russia a surprising turnabout settlement to end the Ukrainian hostilities. The proposal includes complete autonomy for eastern Ukraine, allowing eastern Ukraine to secede from Ukraine as a self ruled, nation. Further, Nuland proposed to remove Petro Poroshenko as Ukraine’s president by backing a new president that both Russia and the United States would agree upon.
No surprise here. Were you expecting a different outcome?
You don't seem to realise that the US and Russia are allies in this. Nuland assisted Russia to create the situation that Putin needed and now the plans are coming to a close.
Most Americans I know believe Russia was justified in reclaiming Crimea and fully understand how this situation will end.
LOL about Obama caring about his image over the situation in Ukraine though. The goofball is a clown and politician-entertainer, not a man of power. He's more concerned with sitting between two ferns, his golf handicap and reading mean tweets than he is with Ukraine. He knows the US isn't watching that.
Other than lip service how can you dumped (sic) someone we never really helped?
That is an interesting comment. I'd be interested to read more of your thoughts on that?Well, I'll try to be brief. I grew up around politicians in the US. My wife grew up around businessmen,'roof' and local politicians in Russia. They're all about the same.
Most Americans here seem to think the opposite. Perhaps our contributors are not typical. Or perhaps you move in different circles.By here do you mean the UK or a small group of dudes chasing Ukrainian tail that post on this forum? Sorry to say, the situation in Ukraine is just not hot news in the US unless you're watching 24 hour propaganda channels from your rest home.
Other than lip service how can you dumped (sic) someone we never really helped?
According to Victoria Nuland, the U.S. invested $5B in that shithole.
Yes, Obama is just the figure head of a machine. The machine wants us peasants to believe that the US, Russia and China are in conflict. We all need an enemy. US needs ISIS. Russia needs the US. Conflict, fear and confusion lines the pockets of the machine world wide and the machine will keep on rolling.
I agree with the :sick0012:, but that's reality as I see it. Do you disagree with my statement?
As I said many, many months before we were never going to fight over Ukraine. The average American could give a crap less about Ukraine and Crimea--most have no idea where they are located on a map and most that can just consider them an historic part of greater Russia anyway. Just the usual posturing against someone we see as competing with our interests. Any money we have given Ukraine is just throw away money on non-lethal aid. Russia has spent and lost much more relatively than we have on this issue.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c50e4c1e-0936-11e5-8534-00144feabdc0.html
Russia missile maker blames Ukraine for MH17 plane attack
Russian weapons manufacturer Almaz-Antey has confirmed that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by a Buk missile system as suggested by the West, but said the rocket came from Ukrainian military stocks.
Poroshenko was installed in Ukraine to do a job. He had targets. He hasn't met them. His cohorts have applied the usual imaginative virement to incoming funds.
Roshen chocolate bar anyone?
Poroshenko was installed in Ukraine to do a job. He had targets. He hasn't met them. His cohorts have applied the usual imaginative virement to incoming funds.
Roshen chocolate bar anyone?
'Funny' I didn't realise that Ukraine's Presidential election result was challenged ... so WHO 'installed' Poroshenko ....?
Good of you to mention his Chocolate... 'funny' how it had been sold and made in Russia without a problem until he 'dared' stand as a candidate and his RU assets were seized for 'copyright infringements' . :chuckle:
As you well know, Victoria Nuland and the State Dept chose the current leadership in Ukraine.
Good of you to mention his Chocolate... 'funny' how it had been sold and made in Russia without a problem until he 'dared' stand as a candidate and his RU assets were seized for 'copyright infringements' . :chuckle:
I think anyone bombing ethnic Russians on a daily basis for over a year is quite likely to lose some assets if any are in Russia. Not rocket science is it?
Is Roshen still available in Russia? There was talk of it being pulled off the shelves. In any event, I doubt too many Russians will be queuing up to buy it now.
Is Roshen still available in Russia? There was talk of it being pulled off the shelves. In any event, I doubt too many Russians will be queuing up to buy it now.
http://www.roshen.com/en/in-the-world/ (http://www.roshen.com/en/in-the-world/) - still have a Moscow office ... give 'em a call.
I didn't see Russians - who can still afford it - stop buying iphones, Range Rovers, Mercs, French Champagne,Italian clothes or sending their kids to school in sanctioning nations....
Well, there are plenty of Youtube videos of Russians smashing up iphones. But the rest of those countries have no part in Americas war on Russia in Ukraine.
(Attachment Link)
http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/06/10/nato-publics-blame-russia-for-ukrainian-crisis-but-reluctant-to-provide-military-aid/russia-ukraine-report-44/
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin's confrontation with the West is "artificial" and aimed at protecting Russia's ruling elite and distracting attention from a corrupt system, a former Russian oil tycoon said on Wednesday."The current confrontation with the West is absolutely artificial," Mikhail Khodorkovsky told the Atlantic Council think tank."The cooling of relations has been inspired by those Russian elites who want to hold on to power."Speaking through a translator, Khodorkovsky, once Russia's richest man, said, "They desperately need an image of an enemy who would distract the attention of the populace from the corruption and inefficiency that exists in the power."Khodorkovsky's empire, which included now defunct Russian oil company Yukos, produced more crude than Qatar before he ran afoul of Putin and was jailed for fraud and tax evasion. Putin pardoned him in December 2013.Khodorkovsky, one of Putin's most outspoken critics, lives in Switzerland."Unfortunately, there can be no talk of any new strategic rapprochement while Putin remains in power," Khodorkovsky said."In Russia such a system has been built under which any decision can be suddenly changed at the whim of one person, who is not controlled by any internal political mechanisms," he said.Asked whether he would run for president of Russia, Khodorkovsky replied, "I don't want to waste questions that have no practical value right now."But, he said, "sooner or later" a power change would occur in Russia and the West should be prepared to help Russia quickly reintegrate into the global system.That could happen by making Russia a member of NATO and the European Union.Khodorkovsky said it would be in Putin's interest to "freeze" the conflict in eastern Ukraine.He cautioned Washington over sending weapons to Ukraine, and said most Russians already believed the conflict there was between Russia and the United States."This situation is going to keep on developing in this direction if arms start being shipped to Ukraine," he said."Then you have the question whether the United States is ready to step into the conflict and to win because if it is not ready for that this will be interpreted as America having lost
Representatives of the European Union have confirmed that Brussels’ position regarding the special status of Donbass areas currently under control of Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics is that it should be permanent.
The European Union representatives have confirmed that Brussels favors a permanent special status for areas of Donbass currently under control of Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150624/1023791343.html#ixzz3e1SIcwni
‘Yankee go home!’ Hundreds stage anti-US protest in front of embassy in Kiev
(Attachment Link)
Demonstrators have gathered in front of the US embassy in Kiev to protest against what they call US meddling in Ukraine’s internal affairs, including the military conflict in eastern Ukraine.
Several hundred protesters held a rally in front of the US embassy in Kiev on Wednesday, Ruptly reports. The demonstrators held placards with signs: “Shame on the US” and “Yankees go away from Ukraine.”
Some carried photos depicting the destruction and casualties in the country’s restive east, while others held signs reading “The blood of Donbass kids is on Obama’s hands.”
A similar protest in front of the US embassy in Kiev was held last Thursday. The demonstrators staged a performance during which a protester portraying a US soldier soaked in pig blood tried to hand out dollars to the embassy’s security. The rally included an installation consisting of bottles with flags of the countries in which, according to the protesters, the so-called “color revolutions” took place.
Read the rest here (http://rt.com/news/271087-protest-anti-us-ukraine/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome).
Comments and debate here (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=21499.405;last_msg=409880) please.
‘Yankee go home!’ Hundreds stage anti-US protest in front of embassy in Kiev
(Attachment Link)
Demonstrators have gathered in front of the US embassy in Kiev to protest against what they call US meddling in Ukraine’s internal affairs, including the military conflict in eastern Ukraine.
Several hundred protesters held a rally in front of the US embassy in Kiev on Wednesday, Ruptly reports. The demonstrators held placards with signs: “Shame on the US” and “Yankees go away from Ukraine.”
Some carried photos depicting the destruction and casualties in the country’s restive east, while others held signs reading “The blood of Donbass kids is on Obama’s hands.”
A similar protest in front of the US embassy in Kiev was held last Thursday. The demonstrators staged a performance during which a protester portraying a US soldier soaked in pig blood tried to hand out dollars to the embassy’s security. The rally included an installation consisting of bottles with flags of the countries in which, according to the protesters, the so-called “color revolutions” took place.
Read the rest here (http://rt.com/news/271087-protest-anti-us-ukraine/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome).
Comments and debate here (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=21499.405;last_msg=409880) please.
Just another Russian staged event for Russian news. Maybe 20 protesters. Then they try to used the people standing in line like they are protesters. Hell those are the people who want visas to come to USA.
‘Yankee go home!’ Hundreds stage anti-US protest in front of embassy in Kiev
(Attachment Link)
Demonstrators have gathered in front of the US embassy in Kiev to protest against what they call US meddling in Ukraine’s internal affairs, including the military conflict in eastern Ukraine.
Several hundred protesters held a rally in front of the US embassy in Kiev on Wednesday, Ruptly reports. The demonstrators held placards with signs: “Shame on the US” and “Yankees go away from Ukraine.”
Some carried photos depicting the destruction and casualties in the country’s restive east, while others held signs reading “The blood of Donbass kids is on Obama’s hands.”
A similar protest in front of the US embassy in Kiev was held last Thursday. The demonstrators staged a performance during which a protester portraying a US soldier soaked in pig blood tried to hand out dollars to the embassy’s security. The rally included an installation consisting of bottles with flags of the countries in which, according to the protesters, the so-called “color revolutions” took place.
Read the rest here (http://rt.com/news/271087-protest-anti-us-ukraine/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome).
Comments and debate here (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=21499.405;last_msg=409880) please.
Just another Russian staged event for Russian news. Maybe 20 protesters. Then they try to used the people standing in line like they are protesters. Hell those are the people who want visas to come to USA.
Only 20 protesters?
Keep watching that CNN........
I wonder why there are not any Ukrainians protesting anything in Moscow?
I wonder why there are not any Ukrainians protesting anything in Moscow? Oh that's right, they would end up in prison like the Ukrainian female pilot.
Here we go with the inability to think again.
Here we go with the inability to think again.
said the guy, addressing the mirror ?
I'm glad those who are unhappy about any US involvement feel free TO protest... RT didn't run stories about those who lived in refugee camps in UA, when they fled Donbass..
But 1tv.ru did, many times. And also showed the 1.2 Million that fled to Russia. We saw refugees in Evpatoria by busloads last year.
But 1tv.ru did, many times. And also showed the 1.2 Million that fled to Russia. We saw refugees in Evpatoria by busloads last year.
I apologise, Markje. I watch pervy kanal / RU24 - daily -and must have missed them..
Then you must not have watched when the news was online, perhaps you like the other shows. (We are talking about the same? there is more than 1 pervy)
US Presidential Candidate Called McCain an Idiot and Asked for Forgiveness from Russia
"US presidential candidate of the Republican Party and Governor John Kasich of Ohio, in his speech at the socio-political organization Ripon Society conference, said that in case of victory, he will not allow the various idiots, like John McCain, to intervene in the foreign policy of the United States and spoil the already difficult relationship with Russia."
(Attachment Link)
Source (http://oppps.ru/kandidat-v-prezidenty-ssha-nazval-makkejna-idiotom-i-poprosil-proshheniya-u-rossii.html?_utl_t=tw)
Here we go with the inability to think again.
said the guy, addressing the mirror ?
I'm glad those who are unhappy about any US involvement feel free TO protest... RT didn't run stories about those who lived in refugee camps in UA, when they fled Donbass..
Here we go with the inability to think again.
said the guy, addressing the mirror ?
I'm glad those who are unhappy about any US involvement feel free TO protest... RT didn't run stories about those who lived in refugee camps in UA, when they fled Donbass..
What on earth are you going on about?
Been at the barley pop again? :'(
Far-right stage huge march in Kiev, call for military action in E. Ukraine
http://rt.com/news/271585-ukraine-right-war-protest/
It is RT news. Who know what they are portesting. You got to know what ever it is RT news surely put a slant to it to make Russians as up set as possibile and do everything possibile to get Russians to continue to support the war.
Consider the fact [sic] that there would not have been a war had the separatists not took arms against the Ukrainian government.
Do you remember who made the following statement and the consequences?
"The anti-terrorist operation will not and cannot last for months, it will last just for hours."
A paragraph from an article I wanted to share as I thought it well-written.QuoteOr, more recently, backed and participated in the coup that deposed democratically-elected Viktor Yanukovych in Ukraine and installed a self-appointed junta, which promptly banned opposition parties and brought to power candy king Petro Poroshenko, who has presided over the complete collapse of Ukraine while ignoring his campaign promise to divest himself of his personal business connections.
There is no evidence thus far that Russia has “invaded Ukraine”. None. Oh, Kiev sends the western media its talking points every week, and the western media dutifully reports that Russia invaded yet again, sometimes using photos of bearded cossacks from Georgia in 2008 or idling columns of Russian armor waiting on some road that is not even in Ukraine, or squeals that Russian forces are massing on the other side of the Ukrainian border – which just happens to be Russia, surely an odd place to find the Russian army. The United States Ambassador to Ukraine fires off satellite photographs from Digital Globe on Twitter, showing blurry holes in the ground which he claims were made by Russian artillery, and maybe you can tell a hole made by Russian-fired artillery from one made by Ukrainian-fired Russian artillery of the same caliber, but I’m damned if I can see how. The U.S. State Department claims to have tons of proof, but it can’t show it to the public because – sorry – it’s all classified. You should just believe them because of their track record for timely, accurate information. Ha, ha; sorry, I tried to say that without laughing, I really did, but I just couldn’t do it.
Source (http://russia-insider.com/en/n/6205)
Does your new Squeeze not keep you busy enough? or are you bluffing her by telling this is work?She was on the beach and I was staying out of the sun...8)
I watch satellite news daily here, both from Russia, and the west. Strange that the Russian news have at least 15 minutes of coverage from Ukraine, Donbass and Kiev, while the western press in mute. Completely mute. Even the western internet press is silent.
Strange to me. :-X
I watch satellite news daily here, both from Russia, and the west. Strange that the Russian news have at least 15 minutes of coverage from Ukraine, Donbass and Kiev, while the western press in mute. Completely mute. Even the western internet press is silent.
Strange to me. :-X
It would seem eastern Ukraine is now nothing more than an welfare state.
It would seem eastern Ukraine is now nothing more than an welfare state.
The whole of Ukraine is nothing more than a welfare state.
Everyone is telling us, how easygoing the governments of the world are, concerning journalists.
So, lets get back a few on those that disobey the party line:
Assange -> Whistleblower -> Stuck permanently in some embassy of a small country.
Edward Snowden -> Whistleblower -> should have been the publics hero, instead had to flee to Russia.
Laura Poitras -> Journalist -> Stopped and detained every time she flies, even domesticly within america for at least 4 hours.
Glenn Greenwald -> Journalist -> "detaining my (gay) partner was a failed attempt at intimidation"
A quick google search is even more appalling. So in Russia you might get killed, but the other countries sure as hell are not better. Imagining having to fear for your loved partners safety because of your work (Glenn) , or that you have to calculate 4 hours travel time for planes, during which you will get interrogated aggressivly (Laura) or having to emigrate for showing the public exactly what your personal rights are worth these days (Assange, Snowden).
Assange is wanted for questing re a sex offence and doesn't trust the Swedes not to extradite him to the USAAnd rightly so, if they bring out such big guns for not wearing a condom (because thats the actual charge!!!!!)
Snowden released operation secrets - which considering his position was either brave or stupid .... he wants to go home and I think a deal should and could be worked out.Snowden told everyone the massive scale of operations of the NSA-spying. Something the KGB had wet dreams about.
Assange could and should cut a deal with the Swedes and I would condemn any third party or UK involvement in his being extradited to the US.He tried & failed, he was more than willing to be 'interviewed' by Swedish police on neutral ground such as the embassy where he is now.
Markje, it seems that charges have been drawn up against Assange by the US, supposedly some kind of secret.
I have to say that in his position I'd have exactly the same concerns as he has. The US is simply not trustworthy in this regard - look at what they were up to in respect of Snowden where, among other trust building exercises, they forced a plane carrying, IIRC, the Ecuadorian president to land so that his plane could be checked to see if Snowden was aboard.
Assange is wanted for questing re a sex offence and doesn't trust the Swedes not to extradite him to the USA
And rightly so, if they bring out such big guns for not wearing a condom (because thats the actual charge!!!!!)
Snowden released operation secrets - which considering his position was either brave or stupid .... he wants to go home and I think a deal should and could be worked out.
Snowden told everyone the massive scale of operations of the NSA-spying. Something the KGB had wet dreams about.
Assange could and should cut a deal with the Swedes and I would condemn any third party or UK involvement in his being extradited to the US.
He tried & failed, he was more than willing to be 'interviewed' by Swedish police on neutral ground such as the embassy where he is now.
Since thats why he is on interpol , for failing to show up on a police inquiry regarding not wearing a condom.
You obviously have not read up on this story when it hit the news. Because of the law of Sweden saying 'rape' when the technical fact is 'not wearing a condom'.And rightly so, if they bring out such big guns for not wearing a condom (because thats the actual charge!!!!!)untrue, Markje
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-swedenSo , not officially charged but stuck in an embassy for 5 years. Reallly now, Moby you're grasping at straws.
Assange, who was released on bail on Thursday, denies the Swedish allegations and has not formally been charged with any offence. The two Swedish women behind the charges have been accused by his supporters of making malicious complaints or being "honeytraps" in a wider conspiracy to discredit him.
According to her statement she "tried to put on some articles of clothing as it was going too quickly and uncomfortably but Assange ripped them off again". Miss A told police that she didn't want to go any further "but that it was too late to stop Assange as she had gone along with it so far", and so she allowed him to undress her.So first she wouldn't , but then felt sorry apparently because she had allowed him to go 'this far' and then cried foul to the police. (should have been thrown out from day 1).
According to the statement, Miss A then realised he was trying to have unprotected sex with her. She told police that she had tried a number of times to reach for a condom but Assange had stopped her by holding her arms and pinning her legs. The statement records Miss A describing how Assange then released her arms and agreed to use a condom, but she told the police that at some stage Assange had "done something" with the condom that resulted in it becoming ripped, and ejaculated without withdrawing.
When he was later interviewed by police in Stockholm, Assange agreed that he had had sex with Miss A but said he did not tear the condom, and that he was not aware that it had been torn. He told police that he had continued to sleep in Miss A's bed for the following week and she had never mentioned a torn condom.
Assange's supporters point out that, despite her complaints against him, Miss A held a party for him on that evening and continued to allow him to stay in her flat.
"We understand that both complainants admit to having initiated consensual sexual relations with Mr Assange. They do not complain of any physical injury. The first complainant did not make a complaint for six days (in which she hosted the respondent in her flat [actually her bed] and spoke in the warmest terms about him to her friends) until she discovered he had spent the night with the other complainant.
Basically what we have is a case of jealousy that has been spun to political advantage.
I wonder what the unguarded position of these women would be today? My guess would be that they'd have preferred to never have made these silly complaints.
I have seen at first hand the effect of spurious rape claims upon families. What seems, at first, to be an easy out becomes a divisive torment for families and friends. In this case the obvious political manipulation will have made matters much, much worse for the complainants, not to mention the uncharged accused. In the case that I saw the accused became an outcast in his community, but so too did the woman.
MarkjeThis a case of jealous girl, nothing more , nothing less.
NOTHING in your quotes changes the charges - wanting to have sex - if the other party doesn't - including refusing to wear a condom is a NO... from one party - not a preference...
Try to 'rip' a condom.
These things are made to stop drunken, stupid people, from making babies. They do not 'break' or 'rip' easily. They are designed to be quite literally foolproof.
Go, try it.
CAN PUTIN AFFORD TO KEEP EAST UKRAINE?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/25/can-putin-afford-to-keep-east-ukraine.html
I'd not go so far as to suggest this as a winner, or even a runner up for bollox article of the week, but it was in contention for a while. ;)[/i]
Interesting for its reality lite and uninformed writing.
CAN PUTIN AFFORD TO KEEP EAST UKRAINE?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/25/can-putin-afford-to-keep-east-ukraine.html
Posted by TomCat.
Interesting for its reality lite and uninformed writing.
I liked the manner in which the writer wove her supposed discussion with some folks who were, from their reported words, showing off hugely to a slack jawed scribe in Donetsk with invented stuff about the Russian economy and Ukraine's responsibility, or lack of it, for transfer payments.
Well found Tom! I'd not go so far as to suggest this as a winner, or even a runner up for bollox article of the week, but it was in contention for a while. ;)
After the assassination of Russian opposition politician Boris Nemtsov in February 2015, condolence messages from around the world poured to Anna Nemtsova's Facebook page because of the assumption that she and the Russian politician were somehow related. The common family name, however, was just a coincidence, although she and Nemtsov were born and raised in the same hometown of Nizhny Novgorod, a city which was closed for foreign visitors during Soviet times. Anna remembers Nemtsov as a curly-haired, charismatic scholar during her teenage years. She calls him the “first democrat” she had ever seen.https://globalvoicesonline.org/2015/03/30/an-interview-with-anna-nemtsova-about-being-a-russian-journalist/
Today, Nemtsova works as an independent journalist in two directions:
CAN PUTIN AFFORD TO KEEP EAST UKRAINE?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/25/can-putin-afford-to-keep-east-ukraine.html
Good article. I hope more people read it. This is the realities Russia and the DPR and LPR face while the Ukraine collapses.
Yes, I looked at her provenance too. I tend to do so when I see a piece like this because there has to be a reason why such a piece is allowed through the normal editorial process.
A part of me wonders how much of the writing was actually by the named writer and how much was an external creation passed off under her imprimatur.
CAN PUTIN AFFORD TO KEEP EAST UKRAINE?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/25/can-putin-afford-to-keep-east-ukraine.html
Posted by TomCat.
Interesting for its reality lite and uninformed writing.
I liked the manner in which the writer wove her supposed discussion with some folks who were, from their reported words, showing off hugely to a slack jawed scribe in Donetsk with invented stuff about the Russian economy and Ukraine's responsibility, or lack of it, for transfer payments.
Well found Tom! I'd not go so far as to suggest this as a winner, or even a runner up for bollox article of the week, but it was in contention for a while. ;)
A while back I posted a brief guide to enable ordinary folks to be able to consume 'news' media in an objective manner. I commend you to find it and read it.
journalist ain't it.
For Tom Cat and others, the use of a diminutive (or an 'ochka') can be affectionate or a way of poking fun at someone. In this case the latter, it suggests that she is not a 'proper' journalist and, for sure, judging by her writing, whatever she may be, journalist ain't it.
already had Volshe turned off
For Tom Cat and others, the use of a diminutive (or an 'ochka') can be affectionate or a way of poking fun at someone. In this case the latter, it suggests that she is not a 'proper' journalist and, for sure, judging by her writing, whatever she may be, journalist ain't it.
I've read your DORAB, articles and could say the same for your writing expertise. :)
It's time to enhance the RUA experience, already had Volshe turned off might as well add Andrew. :coffeeread:
For Tom Cat and others, the use of a diminutive (or an 'ochka') can be affectionate or a way of poking fun at someone. In this case the latter, it suggests that she is not a 'proper' journalist and, for sure, judging by her writing, whatever she may be, journalist ain't it.
I am not a journalist, never claimed otherwise.
Is it normal for USAians to run and hide from that which they do not understand or from that with which they do not agree?
Taking into consideration, English is not her first language, you may think her lexicon is not to your standard.
One should also keep in mind, those who dare to criticize the Kremlin, might not what to publicly go on record.
You might not agree with her views, or feel she didn't have proof to back up what she wrote.
But it's doubtful she is making up lies, because for Russian journalists, it can be hazardous to their health.
Anyone, man or woman, that risks their life to bring the events to the masses, should be given some respect.
Does not matter what news agency, or journalists, all seem to be biased towards one side or the other.
if you were in disagreement with the article, then post a better article you feel was more adequately written to disclaim what Anna had published.
Well, based on your criteria - there must be a lot of illiterate people in Russia :chuckle: I cannot mean that as an insult - as my former partner and current partner had forgotten most of their English - I encounter plenty of IT literate young people - on a daily basis - who's English is lousy - I do not consider them illiterate, either. I understand your criteria may be different based on your stds. or 'eastern Europe' being the Balkans.
Certainly, I found more young e.europeans speak English
I believe you forget that I grew up in a nation where civil war was happening - I looked out over Belfast - then I lived in the South of Ireland for a year and lived amongst refugees from Cyprus' strife....
I have seen bullets/ shells fly and ethnic cleansing - that my Father lived in the north of Ireland was a direct result of his Father's family - 'relocating' ... I try to see things from all perspectives..
I thought this rather interesting, especially the first video: The complete historical timeline of how the US plotted & engineered the Coup in Kiev, starting in March 2013 (http://ian56.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/how-february-coup-in-kiev-was-plotted.html)
If this is true then it would be a severe blow to the Ukrainian military.
8,000 Ukrainian Security Personnel Side With Donbass Forces
http://m.sputniknews.com/europe/20150814/1025747781.html
Truth lives in Russia’ says Deep Purple’s ex-vocalist Turner on visit to Crimea
American rock star Joe Lynn Turner, ex-vocalist for Deep Purple and Rainbow, has arrived in Crimea to give a number of concerts. At a press-conference given for the Russian media, he claimed that “sanctions do not apply to music.”Quote“I was warned I could be banned in Europe [for giving concerts in Crimea]… but I am a rebel, I have always been a rebel and I will always stay a rebel. I do not care what they say,” he added.
“I know the truth lives here. And I believe right now, this time Russia is going to be the great power that it already has been and that good always overcomes evil,” Joe Turner told reporters.
http://www.rt.com/news/312310-crimea-truth-joe-lynn-turner/
Comment by John Pilger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Pilger) on Ukraine and how it is reported in the west.
If I go the an average Supper market here in Texas as ask the cashier what she thinks about Ukraine. She will just look at me funny and say something like, " What? Where is that?
If I go the an average Supper market here in Texas as ask the cashier what she thinks about Ukraine. She will just look at me funny and say something like, " What? Where is that?
That would be because she is stupid and knows nothing of the world around her. Personally, I wouldn't canvass supermarket cashiers for their opinion on many things. When you meet someone whose working day consists of sliding toilet rolls over a red beam of light, these would not typically be the people you discuss world affairs with. The contents of Hello Magazine, perhaps. If that floats your boat.
More stand-up comedy from Petro:Quote from: PoroshenkoVisit of Putin to the Ukrainian Crimea without the consent of the Ukrainian authorities is a continuation of the scenario of worsening of the situation.
https://twitter.com/poroshenko/status/633248453364199425
The American embassy in Ukraine has asked US citizens not to visit a jazz festival in Crimea in late August, the embassy’s press service said on Thursday.
“Russian organizers will hold a ‘Koktebel Jazz Party”’ August 28-30 in Crimea. Crimea remains Ukrainian territory and this event is being conducted without the permission of the Government of Ukraine,” the embassy said.
Thar same person will, when told to do so, just like you do, accept the programming of your thought leaders. The conditioning has already been done by limiting the language and thus thoughts that you are able to use.
That is how acceptance of the enemy of the day transpires and along with it the conditioned hatred and fear.
I found this strange link in the odnoklassniki links my wife browses:
http://mianews.ru/ru/2015/07/28/agent-cru-rukovodil-unichtozheniem-samolyota-boing-777-v-novorossii-audiozapis/
Apparenty 2 agents chatting about preparing the buk-attack on MH17
I found this strange link in the odnoklassniki links my wife browses:
http://mianews.ru/ru/2015/07/28/agent-cru-rukovodil-unichtozheniem-samolyota-boing-777-v-novorossii-audiozapis/
Apparenty 2 agents chatting about preparing the buk-attack on MH17
Yes, I came across this a few weeks ago. It was quite convincing not because of the story itself but rather that the elements around the story voice, person, place were all 'right'. If it isn't genuine then somebody knows a lot more about this bloke than would be normal.
If a fake it is on a whole different level to the kind of stuff that the US staff working out of the SBU offices in Kiev is able to produce. Fake or not, it is of the same level as the Nuland/Pyatt or the Paet/Ashton leaks and both of those are accepted by all parties as being genuine.
Kinda difficult to understand what Poroshenko is trying to accomplish?
He seems to take a different stance each,and every day.
IF the Minsk 2 agreement is fine, then why the hell hasn't the fighting stopped?
Ukraine’s Poroshenko says ‘no Minsk-3’ as Moscow hopes for ceasefire
https://www.rt.com/news/313646-poroshenko-ukraine-minsk-agreement/
It's doubtful, but would be beneficial for all involved. :coffeeread:And in the picture they show a Ukrainian army man with a crying woman (his gf)... but where are the dead children, women from the other side.
Hollande, Merkel, Putin back ceasefire plan for eastern Ukraine: France
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0QY0HY20150829
You are showing your own bias. There are dead children on both sides. .So where are the dead from the other side? They show only kiev's.
You are showing your own bias. There are dead children on both sides. .So where are the dead from the other side? They show only kiev's.
Thats not my bias, thats a simple fact I stated.
And yes , my own bias is very, very clear. Anti-war.
All in dutch, but too long for me to translate.
Suffice it to say that there isn't much to disagree with here and it shows the western antirussian atmosphere through proof so strong, you have to wonder.
The author is community-funded by asking sponsors to donate for his 'quality journalism' work.
http://politiek.tpo.nl/2015/08/21/hoe-het-westen-een-oorlog-dreigt-te-wandelen/Quote from: putin 2005Putin has since 1999 made his ideas on the future of the Russian state clear to his audience. For many years, and at numerous international meetings, he also warned the West to continue not to interfere in Russia's backyard. In 2005, at a summit in Bratislava, he exploded to US President George W. Bush. His tirade came down to this: "We have done everything we could to satisfy you. We have supported the war on terror, we have closed military bases, we have allowed you to unilaterally terminate the ABM Treaty, even Iraq was not really a problem and what did we get in return? Nothing. "
Meanwhile, the Crimea is Russian, eastern and southern Ukraine on fire, more than 2500 people have been slain, including many civilians - nearly 200 of them Dutch - and despite today a ceasefire to take effect, but few people have confidence in a peaceful solution.
This senseless tragedy, because that's it, could have been avoided. The West, Ukraine and Russia in recent months to find a solution in negotiations. The West had, instead of sticking to its ritual expansion fetishism, Russia's objections to the expansion of the EU and must take seriously the NATO and to convince the rulers in Kiev sure that it is in the interest of Kiev is when no more former Soviet republics joined the EU and NATO are. At least not in the foreseeable future.
You are showing your own bias. There are dead children on both sides. .So where are the dead from the other side? They show only kiev's.
Thats not my bias, thats a simple fact I stated.
And yes , my own bias is very, very clear. Anti-war.
Not at all, re read the second paragraph of the article you referenced:
"Daily clashes between the two forces killing civilians, Ukrainian soldiers and separatists".
Quote
War Waged Against Russia Now Being Waged Against China - Russian ex-Spy
An ex-Russian spy who worked in the United States for more than 20 years shares his forecast for Russia and its closest allies, from where should we expect the next “Orange revolution”, to what the relationship between Europe and the US is going to look like.
For many years, Donald Heathfield was a model American citizen. He owned a successful company specializing in strategic forecasting, held a Harvard degree, and had a wife and two kids.
It couldn't have occurred to any of his friends or colleagues that his real name was Andrei Bezrukov and that he was the head of a Russian spy network.
Since the end of the last century until several years ago, Bezurkov worked as a covert Russian agent abroad and during that time, did not utter a single word in Russian.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150906/1026663159/russia-china-geopolitics-forecast.html#ixzz3l28va2b5
A very interesting and well-written article here on Putin. I don't agree with all, but its more right than wrong. The writing is good and the thinking logical.
The writer has done his best to be quite objective, and despite what the title suggests, the article is not a pro-Putin piece - see what you think: PUTIN’S STRATEGY IS FAR BETTER THAN YOU THINK (http://warontherocks.com/2015/09/putin-is-a-far-better-strategist-than-you-think/)
A very interesting and well-written article here on Putin. I don't agree with all, but its more right than wrong. The writing is good and the thinking logical.
The writer has done his best to be quite objective, and despite what the title suggests, the article is not a pro-Putin piece - see what you think: PUTIN’S STRATEGY IS FAR BETTER THAN YOU THINK (http://warontherocks.com/2015/09/putin-is-a-far-better-strategist-than-you-think/)
Manny, do tell us where you disagree. The article is the nearest thinfg to a perfect summation of the situation and Putin's MO
At that point, only overt use of force would accomplish what Moscow wanted, hence it openly invaded.
. Putin had warned in the past that he saw the country as largely artificial and might not respect its integrity if it was pulled so sharply to the West.
Moscow then launched a campaign in eastern Ukraine designed to neutralize the post-Maidan government, prevent Western integration, and retain Russian influence in the country.
By August of 2014, the conflict in the Donbas had escalated into a limited conventional war in which Russia had almost complete operational control and the ability force Ukraine to sign the Minsk protocol. The initial deal only gave the parties breathing space; Ukraine rearmed while Russia consolidated. In February of 2015, Russia inflicted a more strategically costly defeat for Ukraine and imposed another ceasefire agreement that was highly favorable to its interests.
but is still calibrating the use of military force to get the political concessions it wants from Kiev
The invasion of Ukraine may have even saved Putin’s presidency.
Putin made NATO’s eastern members worry about their security guarantees
European nations did not impose damaging economic sanctions on Russia when it annexed Crimea, but only after the shooting down of MH17.
a collective European belief in the need to face down Russia.
his dishonesty in recent dealings has permanently damaged Russia’s credibility
No surprise that Vladimir Putin, who does not believe in rule of law
Martial law is not going to happen. The president knows, because his office has already, last year clarified, that if martial law were to be declared that IMF funding would cease as would supply of most military equipment.
The junta needs to pretend that there is a war, rather than an ethnic cleansing, but will not ever take the step of placing the government in the hands of the military. Although the stated target is the border between the punishment forces and the civilians of the DPR/LPR the real target of these threats is likely the Romanian and Hungarian regions which have been getting a little bit too uppity recently.
Also note the UN and EU and well as most of the world does not consider the government of Ukraine a Junta.
I sometimes refer to the Kievan administration as a junta because, well, it is. The word, in this context, has little to do with legitimacy, after all, in the end the man with the gun has the power - nothing else matters.
There's several reasons for using the term, not the least because it is used by the people in the LPR/DPR to distinguish between the previous obviously legitimate government and this administration that they regard as temporary and not legitimate.
However, Texan, until you actually know what you are going on about why not hang fire on criticising the words used by others. ;)
You could have asked why I used the term - it would have gotten you further.
Russia has chose to recognise the current administration because they have to work with them, that says nothing of the Russian government and state's opinion of their legality. The current Kievan administration should not be there - but they are there and they have the gun.
Oh, Texan, is it possible for a man to know less about the topic he expounds upon than you?
Do you know how many people have fled from the Donbas region into Russia alone?
Do you know how many non-combatant people in the region have been killed?
Do you know anything of the law passed by the Rada that empowers the administration to remove those deemed as 'not Ukrainian enough' by force from their homes?
Ethnic cleansing is a nice, fluffy, cleaned up, phrase for folks whose sensibilities are hurt by the word genocide. It means to kill or remove people from their living place on the basis of their ethnicity.
If you don't think that is what is going on in Ukraine then, sunshine, you have not got the faintest idea of what you are burbling on about.
Also note the UN and EU and well as most of the world does not consider the government of Ukraine a Junta.
You are confusing the past with the present.
Yanukovich government : Legally chosen into office.
Yanokovich's outing : ILLEGAL , all of the russian sphere (including Poroshenko) says so.
Current government : LEGAL! Even Putin/Russia agrees on that.
This is so true with Putin., No mater what it is if Putin does it is it legal. If someone else does it and Putin does not like it then it is not.My wife was a lawyer and knows a hell of a lot more than either of us about Ukrainian Laws. She said its illegal so I go with her opinion.
If you knew anything about law like you claim you would realized how stupid this argument is.
Even in basic History classes in the US we learn that a government must do what is need to keep the government running even if the Constitution needs to be read differently. Even so they found away of doing it with in the frame work of the constitution only Putin will not recognized it because it does not befit him and his ability to get support for this war.Thats total bullshit, the government cannot ignore the law, until they stop being a democracy and become a dictatorship.
Also this is an internal problem in the Ukraine why is Russia so concern? Just think if some other country was treating Russia the same way Russia is treating the internal problem in the Ukraine and telling Russia what was legal inside Russia, how Putin would scream and hell, maybe attacked someone. In the West many of us, with Putin's control over the news and his ability to close down any opposing parties, do not feel any election in is legal.It is not Russia Concerned, it is simply Russia commenting on the change of power. It is their god-given right to do so!
Who is Putin or for that matter you to say what is Legal inside the Ukraine????He probably knows a lot more than either of us on Slavic Lawsystems or has advisors he trusts more than our opinion, therefore it is completely relevant.
My wife was a lawyer and knows a hell of a lot more than either of us about Ukrainian Laws. She said its illegal so I go with her.Would've been better if you left my quote intact, this was a bit hard to decipher. My wife has the Ukrainian constitution in schoolbooks right here at home. The english version is online. It all says the same: This was an illegal move to depose yanukovich.
gee get a life. I bet you have never been around any real ligation and have no idea how the real system works. There many ways to look at the most legal cases and often lawyers have different opinions. It does not mean that any of them is right when the case is decided. Just because your wife is a lawyer does not mean she is right. It means she can practice law.
I do not know of a single president that has ever been impeached legally in the way your wife means it. The process takes too long and the government can not function. In the real world what the Ukraine did is what is always done in some form because it has to be.If they would have followed the law of Ukraine, they should have named the 2nd in command (premier in Ukraine's case) in command, however they ALSO replaced him. That makes this no less than a coup and the following government between feb-may 100% illegal. Imagine if a small armed force of about 20.000 men suddenly replaced obama and his second in command. They do not represent the rest of the country and California + Texas start to riot and want to "break away" into a new america, novomerica. A strong ally sets them up with military and a bloody civil war starts.
If the real impeachment process would have been followed then the local governments would take over and with the corruption soon break down. Before the case was decided it would be anarchy. There would be no police, no fire departments, no utilities, all because of some stupid idea that it was the law. No country has ever done that. It has always some form of what Ukraine did. This is part why is the real world it is called legal.
The Lawyers at the UN who study the case know better than you wife. They said it is legal.IF they did, they understood nothing of Ukrainian law. It is not splitting hairs, it is not worded flowery and blustery. It is crystal-clear in just 2-3 sentences what can and cannot happen. ILLEGAL is what hapened. It was worded exactly like that so ordinary people without law degrees can judge themselves what happened. Read up on the law of Ukraine, it is clear and unambigious. You will understand yourself.
Since the process was done with a parliament who was elected by the people and the parliament remained in power after new president was installed it was in no way a junta.Nope, the parliament in power was a small 8% representing the people (pravi sektor / svoboda) , thats why a civil war started!
This whole story about Junta and illegal government is because Putin wants to destroy Ukraine with this war and all of this is part of the war is the propaganda war against Ukraine. It is not just Putin's opinion it is how he get Russians to volunteer to go to eastern Ukraine and fight. Many people are dead because of Putin's knowing misleading people to believe the government is illegal government. That is why it matters.Read up on the law. Putin is right.
A Media Primer on the Art of Writing Russian Scare Stories
http://russia-insider.com/en/media-criticism/media-primer-art-writing-russian-scare-stories/ri9725
The many gullible (or just crudely and ignorantly anti-Russia) journalists and politicians who sided with the Kiev putsch of February 2014 really ought to be more interested in the latest news from Ukraine.
The supposedly heroic new President of the supposedly free and uncorrupt and generally wonderful new Ukraine, the oligarch who doesn’t like being called an oligarch, Petro Poroshenko, has announced a ban on lots of journalists (and indeed other individuals).
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/16/ukraine-president-bans-journalists-from-country?CMP=ema_546
These people are accused of promoting ‘terrorist activities’ ( a charge very similar to catch-all offences under the Blairite Terrorism Act which are still, shamefully on our own statute book) or of being a ‘threat to national interests’.
The decree is barmy and self-defeating, and in a way laughable. But can you imagine the enormous fuss that would be made if Vladimir Putin were to do the same? Compare, then, and contrast the minimal coverage it has received, because it issues from Ukraine.
Moby, you posted on a no-comment topic where people post snippets and links, so I moved it for you - again. (:)
You also attributed the quotes to me, when in fact they were Peter Hitchens's words. Clearly denoted in the post by the link to the article (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,21492.msg420102.html#msg420102). I have corrected your erroneous quotes as well.
Please read better.
As it goes, I agree with Peter's comments there. You are free to debate him @ClarkeMicah or on his blog if so inclined.
A surprising burst of common sense from the British media.QuoteOverall, it is better to have Russia fully involved in Syria than on the sidelines so it has the opportunity to help regain control over a situation that long ago spun out of control. It can keep Assad in power in Damascus, but the power to do so means that it can also modify his behaviour and force movement towards reducing violence, local ceasefires and sharing power regionally. It was always absurd for Washington and its allies to frame the problem as one of “Assad in or Assad out”, when an end to the Assad leadership would lead either to the disintegration of the Syrian state, as in Iraq and Libya, or would have limited impact because participants in the Syrian civil war would simply go on fighting.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-crisis-lets-welcome-russias-entry-into-this-war-a6678526.html
end to the Assad leadership would lead either to the disintegration of the Syrian state,Why I believe thats a direct quote from Putin, even if they didn't credit him in the article.
US Satellites Work In Syria, But Not Ukraine
http://russia-insider.com/en/us-satellites-work-syria-not-ukraine/ri10106
A surprising burst of common sense from the British media.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-crisis-lets-welcome-russias-entry-into-this-war-a6678526.html
Oh, the irony cup runneth over................QuoteThe U.S. government has condemned this plan as a genuine threat and protested sharply against it. Washington has announced that it will immediately take corresponding defensive measures against a military encirclement of the United States. It will likewise put a stop to attempts to destabilize the United States through subversion, of which it had been aware for quite some time.
Their first action will be to deport the representatives of several nongovernmental organizations that are accused of constantly interfering in domestic affairs. U.S. authorities also report acts of espionage on behalf of foreign powers, as well as attempts to instigate the separation of Alaska, California, Florida, and Hawaii from the United States.
http://russia-insider.com/en/alarming-chinese-missile-defense-mexicos-border/ri5930
When the USA was putting ballistic missiles in Turkey, Russia countered with missiles in Cuba.
This caused the Cuban missile crisis. End result? No missiles in Turkey and no missiles in Cuba.
Poroshenko can claim a small victory, but these elections were not without the usual scandals.
Poroshenko hobbles on
President bloodied but unbowed after Sunday’s local elections
http://www.politico.eu/article/petro-poroshenko-hobbles-on-ukraine-local-election-vote-rigging/
Poroshenko can claim a small victory, but these elections were not without the usual scandals.
Poroshenko hobbles on
President bloodied but unbowed after Sunday’s local elections
http://www.politico.eu/article/petro-poroshenko-hobbles-on-ukraine-local-election-vote-rigging/
Ukrainian newspapers are falling all over themselves calling out these elections as being fraudulant, but.....
Despite the huge inconsistencies, western media and the osce reports everything was hanky-doody... Right ,so much for the impartial osce... Moby??? where art thou, the OSCE is misbehaving badly here.
MArk.
Shock News: Western Media Suddenly Decides Russia is the Good Guy
When a propaganda channel like Fox News begins to make positive noises about Russia, we must wonder why the narrative has changed so fast and who is pulling the strings.
http://russia-insider.com/en/media-criticism/shock-news-western-media-suddenly-decides-russia-good-guy/ri11375
If the Russian people in Donbass are issued Russian passports, would Russia be financially responsible? Could Russia afford the financial burden?
With Russian Passports, Citizens Of Donbass Can Be Free From The Kiev Junta Regime
http://novorossia.today/with-russian-passports-citizens-of-donbass-can-be-free-from-the-kiev-junta-regime/
Khodorkovsky alleges Putin is a secret Muslim. :chuckle:
https://openrussia.org/post/view/11010/
Link in Russian, translated version here:QuoteInvestigation: Is a Muslim, Vladimir Putin?
Share
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After two references to God in his address to the Federal Assembly, Vladimir Putin, has led many to think about their relationship to Islam. There were versions that Vladimir Vladimirovich has for some time is a Muslim. Few Russians have the opportunity to test the president of the presence of primary Islamic signs, namely, traces of circumcision. We'll have to use indirect information - data about the behavior in everyday life, everyday habits. It is known that Vladimir Putin is to avoid alcohol. Unfortunately, less is known about the use of their pork. Therefore it is a good indicator can not serve. But there is another indirect sign by which you can make in the pursuit of human norms of the Muslim religion. This is a perfect prayer, prayer five times daily - one of the pillars of Islam. Pray to be on schedule, which for each area of their own. Strict adherence to schedules prayers leads to many problems in daily life. And perhaps this explains the famous late. Consider the following examples. November 30, in Paris, at the international climate conference, Putin was late for half an hour. As a result, he came shortly before the break, which was announced in 13-45. See schedule of prayer for Paris and find that the noon prayer on that day - at 12:40. While prayer, going, drive - time has passed. In the same year happened to another famous late - a meeting with the Pope. Holy See on June 10, Putin waited more than an hour. Around 7 pm, reporters noted the belated arrival of the Russian president to the Vatican. Again, it all comes down - time late afternoon (the third day of prayer) was at 18:25 local time. Yesterday's message seemed to be knocked out of this rut. It began punctually at 12:00. Although the second prayer - 12:21. But here there is no contradiction. Here is what writes the distinguished theological site: "But being at the place of permanent residence and unable to timely perform the prayer, the believer can combine the second with the third and fourth with the fifth, although it has no right to cut fourfold prayer to two." The third prayer in That day it was 13:47. Having finished his speech at 13:00, Vladimir Putin could easily catch on his prayer mat. Of course, the information presented does not give absolute certainty in the matter of religion our president. Like everything else in his personal life, it's a mystery. Although much of what he did to Russia, can not be explained except as a jihad against the infidel people.
When the United states was involved, you know things ain't gonna be for the better.
Donbass: a region nobody wants?
https://euobserver.com/investigations/131431
Tom Cat where in the article you linked to did you see any substantive mention of the United States? The article mentioned 'Russian-backed separatists' and Russia's involvement in the war with Ukraine and therefore of Donbass. What I didn't see was the mention of US control in Ukraine.
Are you now just making stuff up and linking it to any article even if said article doesn't support your comments?
When the United states was involved, you know things ain't gonna be for the better.
Donbass: a region nobody wants?
https://euobserver.com/investigations/131431
Tom Cat where in the article you linked to did you see any substantive mention of the United States? The article mentioned 'Russian-backed separatists' and Russia's involvement in the war with Ukraine and therefore of Donbass. What I didn't see was the mention of US control in Ukraine.
Are you now just making stuff up and linking it to any article even if said article doesn't support your comments?
Westy, did you have problems all through life with what goes on in the world?
Most people know who were the players involved in Ukraine, and would not question as you do.
He's bored. He doesn't get meals on wheels any longer.
Most people know who were the players involved in Ukraine, and would not question as you do.
He's bored. He doesn't get meals on wheels any longer.
This from a man who admits he can't push himself away from the table till he's had 3 or 4 servings? Run Andy run.
Perhaps walk slowly Andy would be more appropriate. :laugh:
A good article on Ukraine as long as you can overlook the irritating use of "the" before Ukraine throughout.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43793.htm
It isn't an insult to use 'the', the usage is a stylistic choice and is valid, even if some Ukrainians would prefer otherwise.
He is also right about the language or, at the least, is making a justifiable point. A little knowledge of history would help you here Westcoast. You might want to learn something about languages and the 19th century nationalist movements in Europe. Ukrainian along with Finnish and Estonian were first formalised and created as written languages at this time. Up until then they had been informal argots. Language was used as a tool of identity and so these languages were created from their informal forbears in order to enable those who wanted to start identifying themselves as Ukrainian, Finnish or Estonian to differentiate themselves from Russians, Swedes etc. Even today Russian is the language used within the Ukraine when it is necessary for all participants in discussion to be understood.
So, Westcoast, perhaps in relation to Orlov's credibility you could tell us if he is slim or overweight? Or have you now chosen a different way to apportion credibility?
It is, we understand, hard for somebody who knows very little to ascertain credibility. An ongoing issue for you, as we know.
It isn't an insult to use 'the', the usage is a stylistic choice and is valid, even if some Ukrainians would prefer otherwise.
He is also right about the language or, at the least, is making a justifiable point. A little knowledge of history would help you here Westcoast. You might want to learn something about languages and the 19th century nationalist movements in Europe. Ukrainian along with Finnish and Estonian were first formalised and created as written languages at this time. Up until then they had been informal argots. Language was used as a tool of identity and so these languages were created from their informal forbears in order to enable those who wanted to start identifying themselves as Ukrainian, Finnish or Estonian to differentiate themselves from Russians, Swedes etc. Even today Russian is the language used within the Ukraine when it is necessary for all participants in discussion to be understood.
So, Westcoast, perhaps in relation to Orlov's credibility you could tell us if he is slim or overweight? Or have you now chosen a different way to apportion credibility?
Even inas important country asthe US, people using British spellings of words are noted and corrected
Even inas important country asthe US, people using British spellings of words are noted and corrected
Don't be idiotic. English is from England. British English is the only correct version (hint - because it came from here); others are variants. Thus it is not possible to correct British English. One may remind a foreign user that another variant is more common locally, but correct? No.
I recall once being in the US, and with my accent, a woman said "Do you speak English?" I replied, "Love, I AM English". She was quite surprised to hear English spoken properly.
As you are not a native English speaker, I suppose its an easy mistake.
Don't be idiotic. English is from England. British English is the only correct version (hint - because it came from here); others are variants. Thus it is not possible to correct British English. One may remind a foreign user that another variant is more common locally, but correct? No.
I recall once being in the US, and with my accent, a woman said "Do you speak English?" I replied, "Love, I AM English". She was quite surprised to hear English spoken properly.
As you are not a native English speaker, I suppose its an easy mistake.
Russia and Ukraine Finally Break UpThis article has 'wishful' thinking in that Ukraine will get visa-free travel with EU in 2016.
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-12-30/russia-and-ukraine-finally-break-up
This article does raise some good questions. Would be Interesting to hear from the pro Russian side.
2015 THE YEAR IN REVIEW
Why Russia Spent 2015 Half-Assing It in Ukraine
https://news.vice.com/article/why-russia-spent-2015-half-assing-it-in-ukraine1
This article does raise some good questions. Would be Interesting to hear from the pro Russian side.
2015 THE YEAR IN REVIEW
Why Russia Spent 2015 Half-Assing It in Ukraine
https://news.vice.com/article/why-russia-spent-2015-half-assing-it-in-ukraine1
The Russians probably look at Ukraine as not being worth the extra headache of defeating outright, because it would require making a serious military commitment and probably earn Russia a nasty insurgency problem. But if the Russians outlast the Ukrainians (which they almost certainly can do) and simply wait for Ukraine to cry uncle, then it makes all the relevant political points, domestically and internationally, far more persuasively than a pure smash-and-grab would.
The writer assumes there is a war; that some kind of invasion took place.
What we saw was a response to the usual US led destabilisation and regime change.
Had Russia wanted a war there would have been one. Had Russia wanted to occupy Ukraine, it would have done so. Allowing Crimea to reunify was of course a no brainer long debated here.
The writers questions might be more correctly aimed at how can Russia distance itself from a sticky situation on its borders that it never asked for? To that question, the article isnt a million miles away.
The Russians probably look at Ukraine as not being worth the extra headache of defeating outright, because it would require making a serious military commitment and probably earn Russia a nasty insurgency problem.
2/ Ukraine - part of it is occupied
No, several bits of it broke away. What is left of Ukraine is not occupied; unless you count America who is actually running it. Badly.
No, several bits of it broke away. What is left of Ukraine is not occupied; unless you count America who is actually running it. Badly.
Remind us, again, what happens if parts of the RF try to break away ..... :coffeeread:
Remind us, again, what happens if parts of the RF try to break away ..... :coffeeread:
But they generally don't, do they? :-\
OPINION
PUTIN MOVES TO DIRECT RULE IN THE DONBASS
http://www.newsweek.com/putin-moves-direct-rule-donbas-412411
OPINION
PUTIN MOVES TO DIRECT RULE IN THE DONBASS
http://www.newsweek.com/putin-moves-direct-rule-donbas-412411
OPINION
PUTIN MOVES TO DIRECT RULE IN THE DONBASS
http://www.newsweek.com/putin-moves-direct-rule-donbas-412411
Sounds like Russia has totally annexed the Donbass. Might as well refer to it as part of Russia, just like Crimea. I'll bet Putin is really upset that he hasn't been able to complete his plans for a land bridge to Crimea and a corridor to Moldova.
OPINION
PUTIN MOVES TO DIRECT RULE IN THE DONBASS
http://www.newsweek.com/putin-moves-direct-rule-donbas-412411
Sounds like Russia has totally annexed the Donbass. Might as well refer to it as part of Russia, just like Crimea. I'll bet Putin is really upset that he hasn't been able to complete his plans for a land bridge to Crimea and a corridor to Moldova.
A "corridor to Moldova" ? What is that about then?
SOLVED: Opposition Shot Victims on Kiev's Maidan
http://russia-insider.com/en/snipers-massacre-exposes-real-plan-behind-eu-ukraine-association-agreement/ri12155
For those who don't know what is happening (that's anyone who believed the balderdash in the article on the Newsweek site), the lead negotiator has been changed. It was formerly the Russian ambassador to Ukraine, now it is another Russian bureaucrat.
Problem is that the Ukrainian ambassador does not cut a very impressive figure in his role in Kiev. Of course, until recently that task was something of a sinecure. The fellow is not really up to carrying out his current job, hence the re-shuffle.
For those at a loss here, thing about this:
How does changing the Russian representative for a series of meetings which Ukraine studiously ignores and takes no part in mean that Russia has decided to take over running the LPR/DPR?
And for those who wonder how it is the Ukraine takes no part in the meetings, it is worth noting that the 'contact person' for the Kievan regime is former president of Ukraine Leonid Kuchma who has no official connection to the regime at all - the reason he was chosen. He can agree nothing, make no undertakings, all he does is turn up and fly away.
Gotta wonder if Poroshenko actually believes what he says?
Ukraine's Poroshenko seeks EU, US help to get Crimea back
http://news.yahoo.com/poroshenko-wants-help-crimea-back-140750897.html
That is almost as aged as "Russia poised to invade the Baltics" that the US media still recycle once a month. :-\
moby, here's a thing for you to try:
Post links to three credible, verifiable, Russian sourced articles in which the current Russian ambassador to Ukraine is referred to in glowing positive terms, in that role. Don't worry about the language, Russian will do fine.
moby, here's a thing, those of us who are honest don't need to mess about, jump through hoops, try to divine new meanings for old words. We certainly do not need to act as you do.
Now though, I am giving you a chance to prove yourself, show us that you actually know something, that you can be honest.
I know that you can't do this for two reasons:
Firstly, you are inherently dishonest, dishonesty is always your first choice in all interactions. Telling the truth is a measure you employ only in extremis, when all else has failed.
Secondly, you will not be able to support the idea that the replacement of Russia's lead negotiator is due to anything other than the previous incumbent's lack of skill because the guy is lacking in skill.
But go on, give it a whirl, links to three credible articles, from Russia, praising the current ambassador to Ukraine for his skills in that role. Show us what you're made of. :dh:
Post links to three credible, verifiable, Russian sourced articles in which the current Russian ambassador to Ukraine is referred to in glowing positive terms, in that role. Don't worry about the language, Russian will do fine.
There were many war crimes committed by both sides.
But it's doubtful anyone will be convicted.
Former separatist leader brags of executions, challenges Hague court
http://www.Kievpost.com/article/content/Kiev-post-plus/former-separatist-leader-brags-of-executions-challenges-hague-court-406227.html
Ukraine might not have a say in how this will be resolved.
Russia Pushing for An Endgame in Ukraine
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/news/article/russia-pushing-for-an-endgame-in-ukraine/556437.html
Ukraine might not have a say in how this will be resolved.
Russia Pushing for An Endgame in Ukraine
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/news/article/russia-pushing-for-an-endgame-in-ukraine/556437.html
Article pulled already.........
Ukraine might not have a say in how this will be resolved.
Russia Pushing for An Endgame in Ukraine
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/news/article/russia-pushing-for-an-endgame-in-ukraine/556437.html
Article pulled already.........
Here
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-pushing-for-an-endgame-in-ukraine/556437.html
More and More Ukrainians Waking Up from Maidan-Induced Stupor
http://russia-insider.com/en/ukraine-not-all-lost-common-sense/ri12450
More and More Ukrainians Waking Up from Maidan-Induced Stupor
http://russia-insider.com/en/ukraine-not-all-lost-common-sense/ri12450
I just posted this to show you the quality of some of your sources. This is from the same people that wrote the article above.
http://russia-insider.com/en/putin-secretly-alien-us-official-reveals/ri12493
Texan77, do you hear noise above your head quite frequently?
News of Ukraine army operation in Syria debunked as fake
http://uatoday.tv/politics/news-of-ukraine-army-operation-in-syria-debunked-as-fake-582545.html
News of Ukraine army operation in Syria debunked as fake
http://uatoday.tv/politics/news-of-ukraine-army-operation-in-syria-debunked-as-fake-582545.html
Nice catch.
British media busted making stuff up again!
,
Nice catch.
British media busted making stuff up again!
The Independent owned and run by Alexander Yevgenievich Lebedev, a Russian oligarch. Now the only question is was he following Putin's orders or was he trying to piss Putin off?
Donetsk Blog Feb 9: Shelling - Equipment Moving to Front - Kiev Non-Combat Losses
http://russia-insider.com/en/donetsk-blog-feb-9-shelling-continue-kiev-equipment-massing-heavy-ukrainian-non-combat-losses
Kiev keeps moving equipment and personnel to the front. According to DPR intelligence, this included 3 motorised artillery systems, 2 armoured personnel carriers and 7 vehicles with the personnel and ammunition (photos and description of this equipment at end of article).
DPR intelligence claims that the Ukrainian army is incurring heavy non-combat losses caused by conflicts between the military and nationalist volunteer battalions, as well as awful living conditions, diseases and careless handling of weapons and heating devices. In the field, the Ukrainian military has to use open flame for cooking and heating, which results in numerous fires.
During the weekend 11 Ukrainian soldiers died of carbon monoxide poisoning and another 27 were brought to military hospitals with skin burns.
Donetsk Blog Feb 9: Shelling - Equipment Moving to Front - Kiev Non-Combat Losses
http://russia-insider.com/en/donetsk-blog-feb-9-shelling-continue-kiev-equipment-massing-heavy-ukrainian-non-combat-lossesQuoteKiev keeps moving equipment and personnel to the front. According to DPR intelligence, this included 3 motorised artillery systems, 2 armoured personnel carriers and 7 vehicles with the personnel and ammunition (photos and description of this equipment at end of article).
DPR intelligence claims that the Ukrainian army is incurring heavy non-combat losses caused by conflicts between the military and nationalist volunteer battalions, as well as awful living conditions, diseases and careless handling of weapons and heating devices. In the field, the Ukrainian military has to use open flame for cooking and heating, which results in numerous fires.
During the weekend 11 Ukrainian soldiers died of carbon monoxide poisoning and another 27 were brought to military hospitals with skin burns.
Dear god, next time, they may want to send some women along, who know how to cook and use a stove!
'White Book of crimes’: Report on war crimes by pro-Kiev forces in Donbass released in English
https://www.rt.com/news/332047-war-crimes-ukraine-book/
To clarify, the report is compiled by Russia in respect of war crimes committed by Kievan forces, yes?
There's a link in the article, in Russian that might be more accurate, haven't read it yet.Another 5 minutes of my life spoiled by reading that idiot. I should've checked the author before reading it.
Why Russia Stopped at Crimea
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-02-22/why-russia-stopped-at-crimea
Hadn't seen this before, in 2013, the coup was already coming and this guy claimed he had proof.
He also tried to run for president but personal attacks made him also flee to Russia. (house burned down, beaten to an inch of his life, etc.).
Ukraine's Tymoshenko Makes Her Play: Calls for New Elections, Americans Be Damned
Soon Tymoshenko may be causing Victoria Nuland sleepless nights.
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/ukraines-tymoshenko-makes-her-play-calls-new-elections-americans-be-damned/ri13126
In short: As long as the militia remained unidentified, the right thing to do would have been to attack AND ask Russia for help.
In short: As long as the militia remained unidentified, the right thing to do would have been to attack AND ask Russia for help.
Rubbish, who the 'eck had the resources on the peninsula to pull such a stunt .. using Russian forces vehicles.. ?
I think I have spend more than five minutes, countering your 'mantra' about the 'non invasion, peaceful' take-over' of Crimea.
The article is bang on ..
French Government Blames Kiev for Sabotaging Peace in Donbass
The French are now laying the blame on Kiev for failure to implement the Minsk peace agreement
http://russia-insider.com/en/french-fm-ayrault-blames-kiev-sabotaging-peace-donbass/ri14001
Pierre Lellouche: ...Même les plus fidèles soutiens de l'Ukraine indépendante, dont je suis depuis le début de la révolution orange, doivent reconnaître aujourd'hui que le processus de Minsk est bloqué, non pas à cause de la Russie mais du fait de l'incapacité d'une classe politique ukrainienne totalement divisée et corrompue à appliquer l'accord, et en particulier à voter les textes sur la décentralisation nécessaire au règlement de la question du Donbass. En clair, nous sommes devenus les otages de notre propre embargo. Tant qu'il dure, les dirigeants ukrainiens n'ont aucun intérêt à adopter les décisions difficiles qu'ils se sont pourtant engagés à prendre. …ORIGINAL (http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/cri/2015-2016/20160176.asp#P770118)
Pierre Lellouche: ...Even the most loyal supporters of independent Ukraine, which I am since the start of the Orange Revolution, must recognize today that the Minsk process is blocked, not because of Russia but due to the inability a Ukrainian political class completely divided and corrupt to implement the agreement, and in particular to vote the texts on decentralization required to settle the question of Donbass. in short, we have become hostages of our own embargo. While it lasts, Ukrainian leaders have no incentive to take the difficult decisions they are nevertheless committed to take...
The West Looks on as Corruption and Bigotry Rule in the 'New Ukraine'
http://russia-insider.com/en/west-looks-corruption-and-bigotry-rule-new-ukraine/ri16658
i am only missing grozny from my sept. Bingo lingo. Kindly mention it before friday in an offtopic fashion or it wont countThe West Looks on as Corruption and Bigotry Rule in the 'New Ukraine'
http://russia-insider.com/en/west-looks-corruption-and-bigotry-rule-new-ukraine/ri16658
Is this RI and you deflecting from the far more serious situation in Syria ?
Corruption was and is rife in the regions controlled by the rebels - lets not kid ourselves...
The mods kindly moved my reply to the correct topic.......
The mods kindly moved my reply to the correct topic.......
Kiev, Donetsk, Lugansk -- Which Governs Best?
http://russia-insider.com/en/kiev-donetsk-lugansk-which-governs-best/ri16656
DonetskIf true, that is promising for the locals there.
The streets are quiet, cozy, and clean: the locals say the city has never been so well-kept, not even before the war. … The main boulevard is packed with glamorous coffee shops. … A private entrepreneur named Roman … says that some residents have even regained their cars, which were seized two years ago. ‘The courts are overloaded with cases, but rulings are being made and implemented,’
The wicked witch of the west is taking her broom to Moscow. If you read the comments following this article you can see how much she is loved and respected. :chuckle:
Victoria Nuland Heading to Moscow for Ukraine Talks on Oct 5th
Everybody's favorite diplomat will arrive in Moscow tonighthttp://russia-insider.com/en/politics/us-assistant-secretary-nuland-arrive-moscow-late-oct-4/ri16803
Attached to one an email, allegedly sent by the separatist leader Denis Pushilin in January of this year, is a map of Ukraine carved up into three regions. The eastern part is marked as "Novorossiya" (New Russia). The central region is labelled "Malorossiya" (Lesser Russia).
Crashing Down: Saakashvili Resigns as Governor of Odessa. Washington Has Lost Control
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/saakashvili-resigns-governor-odessa-get-ready-another-kiev-coup/ri17440
Excellent news! :thumbsup:
Wonder what her qualifications are exactly? :coffeeread:
Ukraine appoints 24-year-old female minister
http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/11/ukraine-appoints-24-year-old-female-minister/
Wonder what her qualifications are exactly? :coffeeread:
Ukraine appoints 24-year-old female minister
http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/11/ukraine-appoints-24-year-old-female-minister/
She also posted naked pictures of herself on social media sites and later worked
I see that you are expanding your range of sources Tom!
How on earth did you come to be scanning a Nigerian news site? Not knocking it, there's some interesting stories there. The one about how massive breasts can't support themselves unless they're fake stood out for me. ;)
Wonder what her qualifications are exactly? :coffeeread:
Ukraine appoints 24-year-old female minister
http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/11/ukraine-appoints-24-year-old-female-minister/
Its right there in the Article:QuoteShe also posted naked pictures of herself on social media sites and later worked
Have to wonder what is going on, with these young women being placed in a position they most likely are not qualified for
Ukraine names woman, 23, anti-corruption head
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38075466
Fugitive Ukrainian MP says he handed proof of Poroshenko ‘buying votes’ to US Justice Dept
https://www.rt.com/news/369083-poroshenko-buying-votes-leak-onyshchenko/
Ironic, since it was corruption that got her appointed :chuckle:Have to wonder what is going on, with these young women being placed in a position they most likely are not qualified for
Ukraine names woman, 23, anti-corruption head
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38075466
You mean, putting someone in charge who believes in fighting corruption ?
Ironic, since it was corruption that got her appointed :chuckle:Have to wonder what is going on, with these young women being placed in a position they most likely are not qualified for
Ukraine names woman, 23, anti-corruption head
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38075466
You mean, putting someone in charge who believes in fighting corruption ?
Court of Auditors unable to say how EU money was spent in Ukraine
https://www.euractiv.com/section/europe-s-east/news/court-of-auditors-unable-to-say-how-eu-money-was-spent-in-ukraine/
Russian court to decide if Euromaidan was a coup d'etat in UkraineThat'll be a quicky. It was, according to Ukrainian law.
http://uatoday.tv/politics/russian-court-to-decide-if-euromaidan-was-a-coup-d-etat-in-ukraine-847448.html
Russian court to decide if Euromaidan was a coup d'etat in Ukraine
http://uatoday.tv/politics/russian-court-to-decide-if-euromaidan-was-a-coup-d-etat-in-ukraine-847448.html
The military? no, but the other elites, most certainly.Russian court to decide if Euromaidan was a coup d'etat in Ukraine
http://uatoday.tv/politics/russian-court-to-decide-if-euromaidan-was-a-coup-d-etat-in-ukraine-847448.html
: coups d'état, (pronounced like the singular form), also known simply as a coup (/ˌkuː/), putsch or an overthrow, is the illegal and overt seizure of a state by the military or other elites within the state apparatus.[1]
The military or other elites did not size power in Ukraine. Just Russia trying to explain its invasion of the Ukraine after the fact.
Does anyone see the logic of this?
Kiev Pays 20% More for 'French' Gas to Spite Russia as Ukraine Faces Cold WinterRead more:
https://sputniknews.com/business/201701131049558874-ukraine-european-russian-gas-deliveries/
I was wondering when TC would bring his 'messenger' style 'news' on this subject
TC - can you explain how 'Kiev' started a fight to potentially lose control of Avdiivka and it's key industrial facilities ?
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/ukraine-fighting-flares-eastern-town-avdiivka-170131152755966.html (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/ukraine-fighting-flares-eastern-town-avdiivka-170131152755966.html)
If anyone is interested in the OSCE reports on the breaches of the ceasefire ..
http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports (http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports)
I was wondering when TC would bring his 'messenger' style 'news' on this subject
TC - can you explain how 'Kiev' started a fight to potentially lose control of Avdiivka and it's key industrial facilities ?
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/ukraine-fighting-flares-eastern-town-avdiivka-170131152755966.html (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/ukraine-fighting-flares-eastern-town-avdiivka-170131152755966.html)
If anyone is interested in the OSCE reports on the breaches of the ceasefire ..
http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports (http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports)
Kiev has been the aggressor in most of the fighting. Can you tell us what the separatists have to gain with continued fighting?
Here's a fairly good source of what is actually happening in eastern Ukraine.
https://dninews.com/
If you mean prior to the Minsk accords - it's hard not to mock your assertion that the national forces are the aggressors when the rebels were taking UA territory - and the insurrection was aided and abetted by Moscow - even using the term 'novorossiya' was provocative ....
Kiev has been the aggressor in most of the fighting.
Can you tell us what the separatists have to gain with continued fighting?
Here's a fairly good source of what is actually happening in eastern Ukraine.
https://dninews.com/
When reading the reports on the link to the OSCE website, they do not place the blame to the recent "Flare up" on the "Rebel forces".
I think that the current fighting was started by Ukrainian military on direct orders from the president, possibly acting upon advice from Merkel, in order to push Trump into supporting the Ukrainian government when his obvious desire is to extract the US from the issue..
:censored: ing politics.
Trump Admin Declines to Blame Russia for Fighting in East Ukraine
Which would have been truly absurd, but that never stopped Obama
http://russia-insider.com/en/white-house-unfazed-recent-bout-fighting-east-ukraine/ri18777
Ukraine declares state of energy emergencyAnd they dont even have to supply crimea anymore
http://www.enca.com/world/ukraine-declares-state-of-energy-emergency
That situation is absolutely insane!
The 'Nazis' are blockading energy (coal) deliveries from the east of the country and because the government is scared of the nazis they are doing nothing to stop the blockade and, as a result they are having to run rolling blackouts.
Government probably figures that it is safer (for them) to continue to kneecap the national economy than have the nazis rioting in Kiev again.
Don't ANYONE try to tell us that things are not totally to shit in Ukraine. If you do then you are showing yourself to be stupidly uninformed or a purposeful liar.
Churchill said it at the end of ww2. The future Nazi government will be the one calling everyone else Nazi. Putin fits this very well. All of this is being fought in Ukraine so why is Russia involved? Because they are the NAZIS! They say and do things like Hitler and justified the war based on the people being ethnic Russians. This is a Nazi concept.You mean the USA democrats here, don't you. Russia / Putin never called anyone else Nazi, so the first already doesn't apply. Russia is involved because the War is less than 0km (actually on!) located south/west of the Russian border. Such a thing can spill over very easily into Russia and they don't want that. So they are not nazi's. They are patriots, but apparently patriots == nazi unless you're american, then patriots are cool.
My ethnic Russian girl with many ten of thousands of other ethnic Russians lives very well in western Ukraine with no problems.Except they can't speak Russian by law, with huge fines. Russians are harassed and they are afraid to tell anyone they are Russian. You're not being truthful here.
In Ukraine rolling black out are no big deal. They had a lot of them during the war. If they became a big problem I will simply bring the girl a few solar panels. They have become very cheap and efficient now. Remember most homes in Ukraine use very little power. Mainly a few lights and the refrigerator. Even refrigerators are smaller and they are less dependent on them than we are in the west.Rolling blackouts were non-existent back when I was dating in Ukraine. So its become much, much worse since then.
The people of Ukraine are some of the most adaptable people in the world. Compared to what has already happened to them this will likely not be any big deal. Most likely this problem will be solved in a couple of months without there being much of an effect in Ukraine.This conflict has been going on for 2 years already, the only way it will be solved, is if diplomacy will do its job and the military is pulled out of the Donbass region. What makes you think it will be solved in a couple of months?
Gunboat Diplomacy: Donetsk Forces Prep for Amphibious Attacks by Ukraine's Navy
https://sputniknews.com/military/201703081051379873-ukraine-navy-probing-attacks-donetsk/
Ever notice how the western media and western governments as well seem to think it's acceptable for Poroshenko and the Ukrainian government to alienate a large percentage of its citizens?
If Trump was to do the same to Muslims, Mexicans, or any group of individuals the liberals bleeding hearts would be screaming.
Why is it acceptable to treat Russians in this manner?
Banning all things Russian: Ukraine's 'special' path
https://www.rbth.com/international/2017/05/29/banning-all-things-russian-ukraines-special-path_772350
Ever notice how the western media and western governments as well seem to think it's acceptable for Poroshenko and the Ukrainian government to alienate a large percentage of its citizens?As long as people (Even on this board) keep denying nazi's are part of the government, then these things are possible.
If Trump was to do the same to Muslims, Mexicans, or any group of individuals the liberals bleeding hearts would be screaming.
Why is it acceptable to treat Russians in this manner?
Banning all things Russian: Ukraine's 'special' path
https://www.rbth.com/international/2017/05/29/banning-all-things-russian-ukraines-special-path_772350
Ever notice how the western media and western governments as well seem to think it's acceptable for Poroshenko and the Ukrainian government to alienate a large percentage of its citizens?
If Trump was to do the same to Muslims, Mexicans, or any group of individuals the liberals bleeding hearts would be screaming.
Why is it acceptable to treat Russians in this manner?
Banning all things Russian: Ukraine's 'special' path
https://www.rbth.com/international/2017/05/29/banning-all-things-russian-ukraines-special-path_772350
I think asking ISPs to block certain Russian social media, email providers and access to RU TV via the net is short -sighted - no matter what 'games' the Kremlin have encouraged in Ukraine.
Loads of folks have family / friends in the other country.
'Nazis' - far right nationalists are present in both governments....
Ever notice how the western media and western governments as well seem to think it's acceptable for Poroshenko and the Ukrainian government to alienate a large percentage of its citizens?As long as people (Even on this board) keep denying nazi's are part of the government, then these things are possible.
If Trump was to do the same to Muslims, Mexicans, or any group of individuals the liberals bleeding hearts would be screaming.
Why is it acceptable to treat Russians in this manner?
Banning all things Russian: Ukraine's 'special' path
https://www.rbth.com/international/2017/05/29/banning-all-things-russian-ukraines-special-path_772350
- Nazi trinkets
- Nazi salute
- Nazi flags and symbols
Yep, nazis.
Ah and they worship bandera now, despite the horrors for which he was responsible.
Ever notice how the western media and western governments as well seem to think it's acceptable for Poroshenko and the Ukrainian government to alienate a large percentage of its citizens?As long as people (Even on this board) keep denying nazi's are part of the government, then these things are possible.
If Trump was to do the same to Muslims, Mexicans, or any group of individuals the liberals bleeding hearts would be screaming.
Why is it acceptable to treat Russians in this manner?
Banning all things Russian: Ukraine's 'special' path
https://www.rbth.com/international/2017/05/29/banning-all-things-russian-ukraines-special-path_772350
- Nazi trinkets
- Nazi salute
- Nazi flags and symbols
Yep, nazis.
Ah and they worship bandera now, despite the horrors for which he was responsible.
While Banderra, is at best a distasteful figure so was Stalin and Beria. I would venture a substantial percentage of Russians revere these 'leaders'.
If one goes onto US eBay or even mainstream live auctions one can find both new and used Nazi flags and symbols. If one visits Ukraine they are not visible, I just walked DOWN the Andriyivskyy Descent, even here zippo. In the West of the country the support for the extremeists or nationalists (far Right/Left) is a small hard core group, perhaps not even 5%. At one point this group controlled 40 or so seats in the Rada now they have less than 7 out of 450.
Please stop this nonsense, Russian is used on a daily and regular basis in Kiev and elsewhere in the country. One sees the occasional Russian license plate on cars in Kiev. In the United States there have been attempts to ban Spanish usage in the government, they all have come to naught.
The only ones in hysterics are some who have not been to Ukraine, recently or never.
Ever notice how the western media and western governments as well seem to think it's acceptable for Poroshenko and the Ukrainian government to alienate a large percentage of its citizens?As long as people (Even on this board) keep denying nazi's are part of the government, then these things are possible.
If Trump was to do the same to Muslims, Mexicans, or any group of individuals the liberals bleeding hearts would be screaming.
Why is it acceptable to treat Russians in this manner?
Banning all things Russian: Ukraine's 'special' path
https://www.rbth.com/international/2017/05/29/banning-all-things-russian-ukraines-special-path_772350
- Nazi trinkets
- Nazi salute
- Nazi flags and symbols
Yep, nazis.
Ah and they worship bandera now, despite the horrors for which he was responsible.
While Banderra, is at best a distasteful figure so was Stalin and Beria. I would venture a substantial percentage of Russians revere these 'leaders'.
If one goes onto US eBay or even mainstream live auctions one can find both new and used Nazi flags and symbols. If one visits Ukraine they are not visible, I just walked DOWN the Andriyivskyy Descent, even here zippo. In the West of the country the support for the extremeists or nationalists (far Right/Left) is a small hard core group, perhaps not even 5%. At one point this group controlled 40 or so seats in the Rada now they have less than 7 out of 450.
Please stop this nonsense, Russian is used on a daily and regular basis in Kiev and elsewhere in the country. One sees the occasional Russian license plate on cars in Kiev. In the United States there have been attempts to ban Spanish usage in the government, they all have come to naught.
The only ones in hysterics are some who have not been to Ukraine, recently or never.
Isn't the Communist party still a force in Russia? With all due respect to those on both sides I believe Communism murdered more people than the Nazi's. Not that either group are to be emulated. :coffeeread:
Ever notice how the western media and western governments as well seem to think it's acceptable for Poroshenko and the Ukrainian government to alienate a large percentage of its citizens?As long as people (Even on this board) keep denying nazi's are part of the government, then these things are possible.
If Trump was to do the same to Muslims, Mexicans, or any group of individuals the liberals bleeding hearts would be screaming.
Why is it acceptable to treat Russians in this manner?
Banning all things Russian: Ukraine's 'special' path
https://www.rbth.com/international/2017/05/29/banning-all-things-russian-ukraines-special-path_772350
- Nazi trinkets
- Nazi salute
- Nazi flags and symbols
Yep, nazis.
Ah and they worship bandera now, despite the horrors for which he was responsible.
While Banderra, is at best a distasteful figure so was Stalin and Beria. I would venture a substantial percentage of Russians revere these 'leaders'.
If one goes onto US eBay or even mainstream live auctions one can find both new and used Nazi flags and symbols. If one visits Ukraine they are not visible, I just walked DOWN the Andriyivskyy Descent, even here zippo. In the West of the country the support for the extremeists or nationalists (far Right/Left) is a small hard core group, perhaps not even 5%. At one point this group controlled 40 or so seats in the Rada now they have less than 7 out of 450.
Please stop this nonsense, Russian is used on a daily and regular basis in Kiev and elsewhere in the country. One sees the occasional Russian license plate on cars in Kiev. In the United States there have been attempts to ban Spanish usage in the government, they all have come to naught.
The only ones in hysterics are some who have not been to Ukraine, recently or never.
Isn't the Communist party still a force in Russia? With all due respect to those on both sides I believe Communism murdered more people than the Nazi's. Not that either group are to be emulated. :coffeeread:
Both in Russia and Ukraine the Communist party rebranded and are a voting block to be considered. They control seats in the Duma and Rada.
I said: there are nazi's in Ukrain's government.
Please stop this nonsense, Russian is used on a daily and regular basis in Kiev and elsewhere in the country. One sees the occasional Russian license plate on cars in Kiev. In the United States there have been attempts to ban Spanish usage in the government, they all have come to naught.
The only ones in hysterics are some who have not been to Ukraine, recently or never.
US Seeks to Keep Ukraine as 'Minimum Wage' Vassal
https://sputniknews.com/world/201706071054394870-ukraine-us-aid/
US Seeks to Keep Ukraine as 'Minimum Wage' Vassal
https://sputniknews.com/world/201706071054394870-ukraine-us-aid/
I said: there are nazi's in Ukrain's government.
Please stop this nonsense, Russian is used on a daily and regular basis in Kiev and elsewhere in the country. One sees the occasional Russian license plate on cars in Kiev. In the United States there have been attempts to ban Spanish usage in the government, they all have come to naught.
The only ones in hysterics are some who have not been to Ukraine, recently or never.
You said: 7 out of 450.
Thanks for agreeing with me.
Ukrainian Lawmakers Prepare Impeachment Proceedings Against President Poroshenko
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201706231054911890-poroshenko-impeachment-proceedings/
Ukrainian Lawmakers Prepare Impeachment Proceedings Against President Poroshenko
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201706231054911890-poroshenko-impeachment-proceedings/
There is in fact another thread regarding this. What was odd in Kiev one could see attempts by Tymoschenko loyalists at gathering signatures. It seemed most of the public wanted little to do with this attempt at impeachment.
Many In Eastern Ukraine Want To Join RussiaThey've wanted that since 2014. But Russia refused them. Only Crimea was accepted.
http://www.npr.org/2017/06/24/534207470/many-in-eastern-ukraine-want-to-join-russia
Many In Eastern Ukraine Want To Join RussiaThey've wanted that since 2014. But Russia refused them. Only Crimea was accepted.
http://www.npr.org/2017/06/24/534207470/many-in-eastern-ukraine-want-to-join-russia
First hit on google:Many In Eastern Ukraine Want To Join RussiaThey've wanted that since 2014. But Russia refused them. Only Crimea was accepted.
http://www.npr.org/2017/06/24/534207470/many-in-eastern-ukraine-want-to-join-russia
Russian's from Moscow across a broad swath of southern Ukraine tried to attempt what was a success on the Krim. The local population rejected them and they failed.
From a neutral source.No, wikipedia is not neutral, anyone can edit pages and link to a few sources (True or not) and they will accept it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine_(2014%E2%80%93present)
let me add another
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine
From a neutral source.No, wikipedia is not neutral, anyone can edit pages and link to a few sources (True or not) and they will accept it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine_(2014%E2%80%93present)
let me add another
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine
Since very little Ukrainians/Russians speak english, we will have to assume this to be propaganda.
(+ the first link has a Ukrainian language page, but not Russian.... yeah right).
Kiev's Coal Blockade: Wreaking Havoc on Ukraine but Great Business for US
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/kievs-coal-blockade-wreaking-havoc-ukraine-great-business-us/ri20252
From a neutral source.No, wikipedia is not neutral, anyone can edit pages and link to a few sources (True or not) and they will accept it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine_(2014%E2%80%93present)
let me add another
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine
Since very little Ukrainians/Russians speak english, we will have to assume this to be propaganda.
(+ the first link has a Ukrainian language page, but not Russian.... yeah right).
There Is a Suicide Epidemic of Ukrainian Soliders and Veterans of Staggering
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/there-suicide-epidemic-ukrainian-soliders-and-veterans-staggering-proportions/ri20271
You trust Google, but not Wiki?If you must know, I trust neither Wiki nor Google.
Yeah right.
You trust Google, but not Wiki?If you must know, I trust neither Wiki nor Google.
Yeah right.
I saw Wiki lie too often in area's where I'm the expert. And "yourself" apparently is not a good source even if others quote you on the subject.
Its like saying Linus Torvalds is not a good source for commenting on the Linux Kernel.
As to google:
They are the worst search-engine you can find, because they target your "profile" and "adjust" their search results according to various attributes like: what you searched before, location, advertisement agencies and a few other things. This means you will become trapped in a 'search bubble' you don't even know exists, until you try something like duckduckgo.com
Mark.
Is Wikipedia perfect no way, but it does give a foundation to study further. It tends to be neutral and the time lines are accurate.Yes, Wikipedia is an excellent source to begin your search for knowledge, but I don't agree that it tends to be neutral.
In my opinion, it is only neutral on well-established facts (like science, mathematics, etc.) , history over 5-10 years old and such knowledge. But especially politically sensitive information is often colored to a pro-west (EU/USA) view and does not necessarily reflect the truth.
Mark.
US appoints ex-NATO envoy to handle Ukraine crisis
https://www.rt.com/news/395604-us-ukraine-crisis-envoy/
EU and US caused Ukraine crisis - Russia lashes out over Crimea
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/828784/Russia-Ukraine-crisis-crimea-Russian-Foreign-Minister-Sergei-Lavrov-EU-USA
Since Russia annexed Crimea in March 2014, the Ukrainian peninsula has become something akin to a “black box,” with little verifiable data on conditions available to counterbalance the official Russian narrativeThere is little data that things are getting worse yeah, but there is an abundance of data that people are still happy, life is slowly improving, the infrastructure is getting repaired. Corruption is going down and overall the isle of Crimea is doing well.
that all is well in the Kremlin’s newest territorial holding. Now, however, a new study has provided perhaps the most detailed look to date on the true state of political and economic play on the peninsula. Published by the Ukrainian Institute for the Future, a new but well-connected think tank based in Kiev, the report—entitled “Crimea: Three Years of Occupation”—draws on data from local sources and the analysis of seasoned specialists to paint a damning picture of the human and economic costs of Russian rule, and to make a compelling case that the Kremlin’s Crimean project is a threat to Crimeans themselves, as well as to everyone else.Ah a Ukrainian think thank, one that does well by giving reports favorable to the Kiev Administration. So lets continue.
Russia’s control of Crimea, the report notes, represents a massive social engineering initiative. Under Moscow’s administration, Crimea has seen the imposition of a raft of draconian new laws governing everything from military conscription to alcohol consumption,Russia as a whole is trying to combat alcohol abuse. New laws are there for everybody, from Moscow to sakhalin to -yes- Crimea. Military Conscription was always there, both in Ukraine and Russia. Nothing new there.
a surge in human rights abuses, and the “systemic persecution” of the region’s indigenous Tatar population (whose governing body, the mejlis, has been formally banned as a “terrorist organization.”) The goal of this effort is twofold: to subjugate the region’s native population and to tether it more closely to Moscow.I didn't see that, if anything the amount of Muslim interference in Crimea has grown 10-fold under Russia's rule because the Tatars have been prosecuted -less- under Russia, not more.
The results are striking. To date, some 10 percent of Crimea’s total population (over two million in 2014) has fled.Really? and how would you know that. Perhaps 10% died because of the kiev-imposed electric & water shortage. Or perhaps Ethnic Ukrainian people simply went back to Ukraine because of their heritage. In fact, if you believe the latter, the outcome of the referendum suddenly becomes much more honest.
These people have been replaced through an influx of Russians—mostly civil servants, military personnel, or retirees—who have been given significant economic perks by the Russian government for resettling there. And this population shift is still a work in progress. As the study notes, Russia’s official plans for the area envisions an increase in the Crimean population by another one million Russians in the next five years.Yes, the population is hopeful and thus booming, birthrates are up as well from 1.67 to 1.82.
To date, some 10 percent of Crimea’s total population has fled.So first they didn't know how and now its 'fled' ... See above as to why.
Economic conditions on the peninsula, meanwhile, have deteriorated markedly under Russian rule. Agriculture, once the mainstay of the local economy, has collapsed, with production of staples such as rice, soy, and corn now “almost fully destroyed,” and a surge in the once largely self-sufficient region’s need to import commodities like milk, meat, and eggs.It had to, kiev shut off the main water supply and crops withered. Nothing to do with Russia but everything with Ukraine and the wests stupid sanctions. They're killing the Crimea region, not Russia.
(In just one example, Crimean meat production fell by an estimated 84 percent over the course of 2016.) The region’s banking sector, meanwhile, has cratered, ravaged by Western sanctions and an exodus of Ukrainian financial institutions that has led to an increasingly cash-intensive economy.No water, no plants, no livestock... Still no surprise here.
What has grown, however, is the size of the state. Crimea’s annexation in 2014 was followed by an infusion of Kremlin funding intended to bring conditions in the territory (such as infrastructure and pensions) up to par with those of Russia’s other regions. According to Ukraine’s Razumkov Centre, Russia now foots the bill for approximately three-quarters of Crimea’s budgetary expenditures—accounting for a whopping $1.4 billion in 2016.Tourism was the trade of Crimea , in order to help the region Moscow created jobs there by gov't workers. Although not ideal, its better than being in a gutter without money.
(By contrast, the Kremlin has progressively tightened its fiscal belt in relation to Russia’s other federal subjects—resulting in increasingly dire economic conditions in those places.) All this has come at a high cost; Moscow has been forced to cancel a string of high-profile projects in other regions in order to pay for its Crimean adventure. None of this appears to have prompted Russian officials to rethink their policies, however.You mean nobody paid taxes before and Russia does enforce taxation. So yes, it has tightened its fiscal grip on Crimea as people learn that tax-evation under Russian rule will not work.
For the Kremlin, control of Crimea is also a distinctly military project. The Crimean city of Sevastopol has long served as the home port for Russia’s Black Sea Fleet (via a long-term lease from the Ukrainian government), and the region is vital to Russia’s ability to project naval might. Moscow’s annexation of the territory has been followed by a major, systematic expansion of Russia’s military presence there—and, by extension, in the Black Sea region.From a leased base to a friendly base.... makes sense but I fail to see how the extra sailors there spending money is bad for Crimea.
Since the annexation, the study notes, Russia has reinforced its existing fleet of ships in the Black Sea with the deployment of at least six new vessels, as well as new land-based missile battalions. At the same time, it has doubled the number of naval personnel it has stationed in Sevastopol (from 12,500 in 2014 to over 25,000 today). In other words, “the annexation of Crimea allowed [Russian President Vladimir] Putin not only to ‘save’ its Black Sea Navy, but to transform it into a threat… for the whole region.”
Russia has attempted to portray its annexation of the peninsula in historic terms, as a reclamation of lost lands and a culmination of its destiny. The data, however, suggest that Crimea has become a tremendous economic millstone for the Kremlin—one that the Russia, still languishing under the weight of multilateral sanctions and low world oil prices, can ill afford. As Taras Beresovets, the study’s editor, puts it, “Crimea is a time bomb for Russia”—one that could, sooner or later, threaten its society and put its “neo-imperial project” in jeopardy by depleting the country’s already-taxed national resources.Crimea is Russian, always was, always will be. Someone made a misstake giving away Crimea and in 1990/1991 people became aware they were not with Russia anymore.
For the former Soviet republics, meanwhile, Crimea’s situation should serve as a cautionary tale. The Russian government has consistently pushed an expansionist narrative throughout the territory of the former Soviet Union, seeking to entice ethnic “compatriots” (a term it uses very loosely) in countries such as Kazakhstan and Moldova to rejoin the Russian Federation. Crimea shows what it looks like to be part of the new Russia—and provides yet another reminder of why, having fought so hard to gain their independence from Moscow a quarter century ago, those nations should want nothing of the sort.Perhaps if Ukraine had governed Crimea better in from say 1990-2012 , Repaired infrastructure, kept its promises and fought corruption then Crimea wouldn't have wanted to break away. Good government = loyal people, everyone knows that.
British Man Who Joined East Ukraine Rebels Sentenced to Five Years for "Terrorism"
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/british-man-who-joined-east-ukraine-rebels-sentenced-five-years-terrorism/ri20408
Yes it seems about right, if you think about it. I for one do not have any sympathy for Mr. Stimson.
Please understand from my point of view and the rest of the world Donbass is a Russian fantasy.Don't tell that to the people fighting a very bloody civil war there.
Please understand from my point of view and the rest of the world Donbass is a Russian fantasy.Don't tell that to the people fighting a very bloody civil war there.
Donbass becomes more real every day that this conflict continues. The best thing that Kiev can do here, is end the hostilities and start to care and govern these people. When their life gets better instead of worse, they will have no wish to return to Russia anymore.
Please understand from my point of view and the rest of the world Donbass is a Russian fantasy.Don't tell that to the people fighting a very bloody civil war there.
Donbass becomes more real every day that this conflict continues. The best thing that Kiev can do here, is end the hostilities and start to care and govern these people. When their life gets better instead of worse, they will have no wish to return to Russia anymore.
Can I remind you Kiev is the capital of Ukraine.
The actions of Russia have done more to polarize opinion and feeling in Ukraine than anything else. The leaders in Kiev are not going to allow any centimeter of land to be occupied by Russia any time soon.
Yes, thats why I wrote Kiev.Please understand from my point of view and the rest of the world Donbass is a Russian fantasy.Don't tell that to the people fighting a very bloody civil war there.
Donbass becomes more real every day that this conflict continues. The best thing that Kiev can do here, is end the hostilities and start to care and govern these people. When their life gets better instead of worse, they will have no wish to return to Russia anymore.
Can I remind you Kiev is the capital of Ukraine.
Significant Accomplishment': US Starts Building Major Naval Facility in Ukraine
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201708071056259724-us-naval-canter-ukraine/
Mattis is a strategic genius. Leave Western Europe to their own demise and gain control of Eastern Europe. I smell a Ford Class Carrier in that port within 2 years.
Significant Accomplishment': US Starts Building Major Naval Facility in Ukraine
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201708071056259724-us-naval-canter-ukraine/
Mattis is a strategic genius. Leave Western Europe to their own demise and gain control of Eastern Europe. I smell a Ford Class Carrier in that port within 2 years.
More likely a Boston Whaler. It seems to be in an area of shallow water. It is though the confluence of the Southern Bug and Dnieper into the Black Sea.
Significant Accomplishment': US Starts Building Major Naval Facility in Ukraine
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201708071056259724-us-naval-canter-ukraine/
Mattis is a strategic genius. Leave Western Europe to their own demise and gain control of Eastern Europe. I smell a Ford Class Carrier in that port within 2 years.
More likely a Boston Whaler. It seems to be in an area of shallow water. It is though the confluence of the Southern Bug and Dnieper into the Black Sea.
Not that shallow. There is a 114 footer docked in the commercial port next door.
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/index/ships/range/port_id:18504/port_name:OCHAKOV (http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/index/ships/range/port_id:18504/port_name:OCHAKOV)
But yes, the draft on a Ford Class is about double that. There is a small airport at the military port as well though.
Significant Accomplishment': US Starts Building Major Naval Facility in UkraineAh, so the USA is building a major communications/operations hub on a stones-throw of Sevastopol.
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201708071056259724-us-naval-canter-ukraine/
Significant Accomplishment': US Starts Building Major Naval Facility in UkraineAh, so the USA is building a major communications/operations hub on a stones-throw of Sevastopol.
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201708071056259724-us-naval-canter-ukraine/
How is this not American Agression.....
Saboteurs Are Being Trained By CIA To Be Sent To Crimea And Donbass
http://www.globalresearch.ca/saboteurs-are-being-trained-by-cia-to-be-sent-to-crimea-and-donbass/5604398
Saboteurs Are Being Trained By CIA To Be Sent To Crimea And Donbass
Saboteurs Are Being Trained By CIA To Be Sent To Crimea And Donbass
Just more fake news because some of you guys will believe anything.
Saboteurs Are Being Trained By CIA To Be Sent To Crimea And Donbass
Just more fake news because some of you guys will believe anything.
The CIA part is fake I am sure, but they just caught a guy in Crimea trying to disable the electrical grid.
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d2d_1502786484 (https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d2d_1502786484)
Yet buying cheaper gas from Russia is not an option.
Ukraine's Trade With Russia Is Rapidly Increasing
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/ukraines-trade-russia-rapidly-increasing/ri20699
Gee Is Putin going to give up on Donbas? He is going to lose not because of any bodies army but because the place is depopulating. So now he is considering UN peace keepers. It seems to me like the first step to the end of Russian control of the region.As said before, Russia never wanted the region, fairly early in this conflict, putin out-right said so and maintained that stance ever since (officially)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-germany/ukraine-gives-cautious-welcome-to-putins-peacekeepers-offer-idUSKCN1BP1YM
As said before, Russia never wanted the region, fairly early in this conflict, putin out-right said so and maintained that stance ever since (officially)
Russia official position and realities on the ground are sometimes very different. Russia ruin the lives of millions of people in Donbas just so the could ruin the lives of the rest of the Ukraine by spreading poverty where ever they could in the country with this war they officially were never in.You mean Poroshenko does a good job there.
You mean Poroshenko does a good job there.
No need to involve putin, he is stellar in making his country hurt all by himself.
A godwin, really ? :o
You mean Poroshenko does a good job there.
No need to involve putin, he is stellar in making his country hurt all by himself.
A classic peace of deflection ... bit like blaming the Dutch govt in exile for allowing the Germans to run the Netherlands
Poroshenko is in control of Ukraine
If Porky pig had taken better care for his people (You know, the civilians in Donbass) , they wouldn't have wanted to seperate and all the other stuff goes away. Its not too late to actually start doing that. Poroshenko is also blocking any minsk-agreement and not living up to his side of the resolution whilst Donbass has done their part.
Beware, some images of dead russian military below.
Poroshenko should be removed from office, and sooner rather than later.
Where's the western outcry over this? Oh yeah thats right, we signed an association agreement and visa-free travel.
I would welcome these refugees, as they are REALLY fleeing a war... but they haven't flocked to Europe, they fled to Russia!
Poroshenko is in control of Ukraine
No he isn't ..esp the parts where the Russian army is either openly ( Crimea)
Crimea is Russia. Buy a new atlas.
No it wasn't. And if you fail to see that, there is nothing more to say.QuotePoroshenko is in control of Ukraine
No he isn't ..esp the parts where the Russian army is either openly ( Crimea) or parts of Donbas where they helped out and they won't admit it and you can't ...
The analogy re 'blame' was spot-on..
1/ Was Poroshenko leader when Moscow was spreading the seeds of discontent ? ...No ( Remembering it is illegal to do the same in Russia- but 'ok' to do it in neighbouring nations )Who is exactly spreading seeds? I would think that Kiev with its out-of-touch leadership was. Malcontent needs feeding grounds, all Russia could do was encourage what is already there.
2/ Indeed they are his people - you got THAT part right .. You would be aware of the make up of the population before and why I certainly don't believe any 'referendum' result from there. You should check out the peoples' feelings from places that were liberated from the 'separatists' ..Sloviyansk being a good example...As moscow has no obligations under Minsk two, other than try to encourage the DPR, thats laughable.
3/ Both Kiev and Moscow are breaking Minsk 2 agreements - don't you read the daily reports from the Observers ?
You might want to ask people in Donbass that, they want this situation or theyd have kicked out Zakarchenko long ago.Beware, some images of dead russian military below.
You post pictures of dead civilians - YES - we know - innocents are losing their lives... for a war they didn't ask for and mostly they don't care who rules them - as long as they can live safely ..
Yes, the only thing we agree on.Poroshenko should be removed from office, and sooner rather than later.
Ukraine has a habit of removing unpopular leaders - don't worry ....
Why would the EU want to send a FU to Moscow over this? Its Kiev thats killing its own civilians.Where's the western outcry over this? Oh yeah thats right, we signed an association agreement and visa-free travel.
Probably the biggest FU to Moscow that the EU was capable of .. ? I know the news in Russia is all about how bad things are in Ukraine ..
Many wise folks got out before the sh!t hit the fan ..settling in Kiev, Odesa, and areas in Donbas where the govt still exercises control .... They weren't welcome and got the hint - such was the bully boy tactics employed ... 'Sorry' to introduce a little reality into your one-sided tale.Right, where are the numbers? Oh thats right, there aren't any that you believe. Especially not the 1.000.000+ that fled to Russia instead. The ones fleeing towards kiev's regime isn't even half that.
No it wasn't. And if you fail to see that, there is nothing more to say.
1/ Was Poroshenko leader when Moscow was spreading the seeds of discontent ? ...No ( Remembering it is illegal to do the same in Russia- but 'ok' to do it in neighbouring nations )
Who is exactly spreading seeds? I would think that Kiev with its out-of-touch leadership was. Malcontent needs feeding grounds, all Russia could do was encourage what is already there.
2/ Indeed they are his people - you got THAT part right .. You would be aware of the make up of the population before and why I certainly don't believe any 'referendum' result from there. You should check out the peoples' feelings from places that were liberated from the 'separatists' ..Sloviyansk being a good example...
3/ Both Kiev and Moscow are breaking Minsk 2 agreements - don't you read the daily reports from the Observers ?
As moscow has no obligations under Minsk two, other than try to encourage the DPR, thats laughable.
Beware, some images of dead russian military below.
You post pictures of dead civilians - YES - we know - innocents are losing their lives... for a war they didn't ask for and mostly they don't care who rules them - as long as they can live safely ..
You might want to ask people in Donbass that, they want this situation or theyd have kicked out Zakarchenko long ago.
Poroshenko should be removed from office, and sooner rather than later.
Ukraine has a habit of removing unpopular leaders - don't worry ....
Yes, the only thing we agree on.
Where's the western outcry over this? Oh yeah thats right, we signed an association agreement and visa-free travel.
Probably the biggest FU to Moscow that the EU was capable of .. ? I know the news in Russia is all about how bad things are in Ukraine ..
Why would the EU want to send a FU to Moscow over this?
Its Kiev thats killing its own civilians.
Ah and how bad things are in Ukraine, one needs only to check the news once a week or so... There is some real economic disaster going on outside the whole Donbass FU.
Many wise folks got out before the sh!t hit the fan ..settling in Kiev, Odesa, and areas in Donbas where the govt still exercises control .... They weren't welcome and got the hint - such was the bully boy tactics employed ... 'Sorry' to introduce a little reality into your one-sided tale.
Right, where are the numbers? Oh thats right, there aren't any that you believe. Especially not the 1.000.000+ that fled to Russia instead. The ones fleeing towards kiev's regime isn't even half that.
Crimea is Russia. Buy a new atlas.
I'll pop down to Waterstone's to check your advice ;)
I'd check a Russian one if I were you.
Right, you're deluded so I can't even respond to the rest without a huge caveat emptor, the reply is from deluded you.
No it wasn't. And if you fail to see that, there is nothing more to say.
A bit like 'no shots fired' in Crimea ... you will continue to delude yourself .. but not others
You missed 'anti-maidan' ... ?! The 'Nazi protesters' - how bizarre .... the fear / uncertainty was being pushed when it was clear the writing was on the wall for Yanu' ..... You DO have a short memory ... Me posting UN hum rights reports warning of polarisation and risk of civil violence on a massive scale...The nazi's were very real, that you put them inside quotation marks again show how deluded you were. In fact, the whole fascism angle is why Crimea decided to quit Ukraine in the first place. (Before joining Russia on a referendum later)
Debated before... Andrew quite nicely nipped these kinds of replies in the butt. You are talking nonsense again.As moscow has no obligations under Minsk two, other than try to encourage the DPR, thats laughable.
THANKS - for demonstrating your 'knowledge' of Minsk-2..
Meanwhile in the real world military kit - that can only be from Russia - apparently keeps appearing in the field - and the presence is denied by those seen using it. .... What that the sort of encouragement you mean ?Yet never photographed in this high-camera-presence world.
I'm not in favour of the west giving UA legal arms, btw . It will result in an upsurge of casualties and Russia will simply send in more men and kit - like August 2015 and acquire more UA territory.No it won't , there will simply be more blown up army bases on the Ukrainian side.
Where's the western outcry over this? Oh yeah thats right, we signed an association agreement and visa-free travel.No response? typical. You must find it 100% approved that Porky is shooting civilians, not even as collateral damage but straight shooting at civilian buildings with mortars and other heavy weaponry.
Probably the biggest FU to Moscow that the EU was capable of .. ? I know the news in Russia is all about how bad things are in Ukraine ..Ah yeah that was the reply to above.... sad.
Riiiiight. Perhaps I need to quote someone: Please put down the wine and talk some sense. This makes no sense at all. Russia isn't killing any civilians. Nowhere. And Ukraine is free to do as it wish, but it was always a deeply divided east/west country. They ignored that and guess what happened.Quote from: MarkjeWhy would the EU want to send a FU to Moscow over this?
Let's think...? Constant undermining of the - overall in Ukraine - decision to have closer ties with Europe - whilst - originally - not wishing to lose 'em with Moscow and certainly no dream to join NATO .... Now the population is polarised with starkly differing expectations and even killing each other... that's why the next quote of yours is somewhat ironic ...
You call firing mortars into civilian buildings because maybe there are separatists there propaganda? Thanks for showing your true colors.Quote from: MarkjeIts Kiev thats killing its own civilians.
There is no doubt that in fighting the 'separatists' that Kiev is killing innocents - just as the 'separatists' were doing ... So often old folk who just can't move and get caught in the cross-fire .... Let's not do the 'propaganda bollox' .... Both sides have been criticised -and rightly so. What is a joke is Moscow talks about the 'killing civilians' and 'right of self-determination ' whilst having done EXACTLY that in a 'part' of Russia that hadn't even agreed to BE part of Russia and bans any media discussion of self-determination - leaving the R.F. THAT's what is SO galling ....
Yet here you are - blind to the irony ....No, i see real human suffering and real dead people. You apparently only see Russian soldiers everywhere.
No need to , they are in the doghouse just like the rest of Ukraine. Why is it suddenly not part of Ukraine? Why on earth do you suddenly switch to it being a separate area?Quote from: MarkjeAh and how bad things are in Ukraine, one needs only to check the news once a week or so... There is some real economic disaster going on outside the whole Donbass FU.
Not that you will read the 'games' going on in the 'separatist' controlled parts of Donbas....
...How do you know that your 'numbers' are accurate - when there is so much bollox being printed as propaganda by both sides?Because the facts line up. Russia's population grew 1million people over night. Where did you think those came from?
I know folks from Donbas and Lugansk .... some fled to Russia - some to other parts of Ukraine - or further afield WAY before this really kicked off -they saw what was comingRight. My uncle's nephew who's friends housekeeper had a son that lived in poland whom had a girlfriend from Ukraine who's grandmama lived in donbass.
Why did you not quote my asking you about what folks think in 'liberated' parts of Ukraine - run for a time by 'separatists' back under Kiev control ... ?Yes, very.... I am not answering any questions that you think are smart but in fact, aren't.
VERY telling ......
Hint: Sloyiyansk was a key town and if you read some reports Kiev was shelling residents... when the 'truth' - according to Kiev - was somewhat different .... the 'rebels' fired OUT from flats - inviting incoming fire - moving on they fired OUT from Schools and Hospitals ...Ah right.... again those poor people from Kiev, shooting with mortars at buildings because they said someone is shooting from them. No that won't invite any collateral damage at all :sick0012:
On RU tv much was made of the plight of the residents - who are now -seemingly - living quite peaceably - and western journos have free access.
On a scale of say, 0 to 20.000 (thats not much) how many casualties were directly related to the Crimean release from Ukraine?
Where 0 = no casualties and 20.000 = 20.000 casualties.
You'd be hard pressed to get to even 1 promille. (20 people). I call such a thing no shots fired, but you seem to want to take all literally when everybody else gets the true meaning of the words.
I chose 20.000 as that would mean 10.000 Russian troops (you said that was the max under Ukraine/Russia's lease agreement) and 10.000 from the other side.
You missed 'anti-maidan' ... ?! The 'Nazi protesters' - how bizarre .... the fear / uncertainty was being pushed when it was clear the writing was on the wall for Yanu' ..... You DO have a short memory ... Me posting UN hum rights reports warning of polarisation and risk of civil violence on a massive scale...
The nazi's were very real, that you put them inside quotation marks again show how deluded you were. In fact, the whole fascism angle is why Crimea decided to quit Ukraine in the first place. (Before joining Russia on a referendum later)
As moscow has no obligations under Minsk two, other than try to encourage the DPR, thats laughable.
THANKS - for demonstrating your 'knowledge' of Minsk-2..
Debated before...
Andrew quite nicely nipped these kinds of replies in the butt. You are talking nonsense again.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11408266/Minsk-agreement-on-Ukraine-crisis-text-in-full.html
Kindly point me to where Putin's responsibilities are.
Meanwhile in the real world military kit - that can only be from Russia - apparently keeps appearing in the field - and the presence is denied by those seen using it. .... Whatas that the sort of encouragement you mean ?
Yet never photographed in this high-camera-presence world.
I got youtube vids and photo's of all asteroids , strange UFO's and other crap in Russia, but not these mysterious forces you keep talking of.
I'm not in favour of the west giving UA legal arms, btw . It will result in an upsurge of casualties and Russia will simply send in more men and kit - like August 2015 and acquire more UA territory.
No it won't , there will simply be more blown up army bases on the Ukrainian side.
Where's the western outcry over this? Oh yeah thats right, we signed an association agreement and visa-free travel.No response? typical. You must find it 100% approved that Porky is shooting civilians, not even as collateral damage but straight shooting at civilian buildings with mortars and other heavy weaponry.
Probably the biggest FU to Moscow that the EU was capable of .. ? I know the news in Russia is all about how bad things are in Ukraine ..
Ah yeah that was the reply to above.... sad.
Why would the EU want to send a FU to Moscow over this?
Let's think...? Constant undermining of the - overall in Ukraine - decision to have closer ties with Europe - whilst - originally - not wishing to lose 'em with Moscow and certainly no dream to join NATO .... Now the population is polarised with starkly differing expectations and even killing each other... that's why the next quote of yours is somewhat ironic ...
Riiiiight. Perhaps I need to quote someone: Please put down the wine
This makes no sense at all. Russia isn't killing any civilians. Nowhere. And Ukraine is free to do as it wish, but it was always a deeply divided east/west country. They ignored that and guess what happened.
Its Kiev thats killing its own civilians.
There is no doubt that in fighting the 'separatists' that Kiev is killing innocents - just as the 'separatists' were doing ... So often old folk who just can't move and get caught in the cross-fire .... Let's not do the 'propaganda bollox' .... Both sides have been criticised -and rightly so. What is a joke is Moscow talks about the 'killing civilians' and 'right of self-determination ' whilst having done EXACTLY that in a 'part' of Russia that hadn't even agreed to BE part of Russia and bans any media discussion of self-determination - leaving the R.F. THAT's what is SO galling ....
You call firing mortars into civilian buildings because maybe there are separatists there propaganda? Thanks for showing your true colors.
Yet here you are - blind to the irony ....
No, i see real human suffering and real dead people. You apparently only see Russian soldiers everywhere.
Ah and how bad things are in Ukraine, one needs only to check the news once a week or so... There is some real economic disaster going on outside the whole Donbass FU.
Not that you will read the 'games' going on in the 'separatist' controlled parts of Donbas....
No need to , they are in the doghouse just like the rest of Ukraine. Why is it suddenly not part of Ukraine? Why on earth do you suddenly switch to it being a separate area?
...How do you know that your 'numbers' are accurate - when there is so much bollox being printed as propaganda by both sides?
Because the facts line up. Russia's population grew 1million people over night. Where did you think those came from?
I know folks from Donbas and Lugansk .... some fled to Russia - some to other parts of Ukraine - or further afield WAY before this really kicked off -they saw what was coming
Right. My uncle's nephew who's friends housekeeper had a son that lived in poland whom had a girlfriend from Ukraine who's grandmama lived in donbass.
Something like that?
I know someone from Donbass too, he's living in Evpatoria, he talked about the organization of fleeing people and how the Russians did it. Counting busses with 50 people, the quota for each city etc. etc. adding up the numbers makes me come to a million.... just like reported in the news.
Why did you not quote my asking you about what folks think in 'liberated' parts of Ukraine - run for a time by 'separatists' back under Kiev control ... ?
VERY telling ......
Yes, very.... I am not answering any questions that you think are smart but in fact, aren't.
Hint: Sloyiyansk was a key town and if you read some reports Kiev was shelling residents... when the 'truth' - according to Kiev - was somewhat different .... the 'rebels' fired OUT from flats - inviting incoming fire - moving on they fired OUT from Schools and Hospitals ...
On RU tv much was made of the plight of the residents - who are now -seemingly - living quite peaceably - and western journos have free access.
Ah right.... again those poor people from Kiev, shooting with mortars at buildings because they said someone is shooting from them. No that won't invite any collateral damage at all :sick0012:
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/2019-could-be-very-bad-year-ukraine-22567
At least in the short term, it costs less to steal natural gas than to buy it. It amazes me that Russia continues to give Ukraine this opportunity; it amazes me more that other gas suppliers think that they will actually get paid; it amazes me most of all that thieves believe that their thievery can continue forever.
Movie hardman Steven Seagal banned from Ukraine as he’s deemed a ‘security threat’I am sure his top-notch martial arts skills make him a force to be reckon'd with.
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/celebrities-gone-bad/movie-hardman-steven-seagal-banned-from-ukraine-as-hes-deemed-a-security-threat/news-story/a3955760f24decd23b1426f027b39524
20,000 Nazis March in Kiev. The Western Media Somehow Fails to Notice
http://russia-insider.com/en/20000-nazis-march-kiev-western-media-somehow-fails-notice/ri21294
20,000 Nazis March in Kiev. The Western Media Somehow Fails to Notice
http://russia-insider.com/en/20000-nazis-march-kiev-western-media-somehow-fails-notice/ri21294
Try like perhaps, maybe 2,000.
A few streets are closed off and there are police, more than normal in the area. Seeing that different interests protest on an almost daily basis in an around the Rada and Government buildings one can guess what is the agenda of the Russian Insider. :pointlaugh:
20,000 Nazis March in Kiev. The Western Media Somehow Fails to Notice
http://russia-insider.com/en/20000-nazis-march-kiev-western-media-somehow-fails-notice/ri21294
Try like perhaps, maybe 2,000.
A few streets are closed off and there are police, more than normal in the area. Seeing that different interests protest on an almost daily basis in an around the Rada and Government buildings one can guess what is the agenda of the Russian Insider. :pointlaugh:
Watched a couple videos and I do doubt twenty thousand, but looked to be bit more than you suggest.
Protests like this would definitely be blamed on Trump if it took place in the United states.
Poroshenko Vows Push To Create Anticorruption Court By Year's End
https://www.rferl.org/a/poroshenko-vows-push-create-anticorruption-court-by-yearend/28807413.html
U.S. Urges Russia To Free Jailed Ukrainian Pilot
Washington has called on Russia to immediately release Nadiya Savchenko, the Ukrainian pilot who was captured in eastern Ukraine and later handed over to Russia, where she is charged with killing two Russian journalists.
In a statement on October 29, Ban said the November 2 ballots in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions would breach the Ukrainian Constitution and national law.
read all about it here
http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-russia-us-savchenko/26664997.html
It’s out of the fire and into the frying pan for so-called Ukrainian ‘Joan of Arc’ Nadia Savchenko, who has just now been arrested by Ukraine, for allegedly planning a terrorist attack inside the parliament of which she is a member.
Over the weekend elections for local officials and it seems some of the seats in the Rada were held. It seems turnout was low (I guess average). But part of the process were questions from (and paid by) Servant of the People party. The text is below.
Citizens were asked to answer the following five questions:
- Do you support the idea of life imprisonment for corruption on a particularly large scale?
- Do you support the creation of a free economic zone in Donetsk and Lugansk regions?
- Do you support a reduction in the number of Members of Parliament to 300?
- Do you support the legalization of marijuana for medical use, i.e. to reduce pain in critically ill patients?
- Do you support Ukraine's right to use the security guarantees stipulated in the Budapest Memorandum to restore its state sovereignty and territorial integrity?
From UNIAN: https://www.unian.info/society/osce-odihr-says-zelensky-s-poll-on-election-day-creates-undue-political-advantage-11195780.html
The questions give some indication of the thinking of President V Zelensky and perhaps by inference the direction he wants the country to move towards.
Compared to elections in Belarus it is refreshing.
Are you in Ukraine now?
I'm not too worried about Putin because we got our own problems at home but Putin accuses Ukraine of provocations in Ukraine. Sounds like a good reason to invade. Merkel doesn't think this mass mobilization is going to be a training exercise.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-says-could-forced-protect-122250495.html
It appears Russia might be thinking of making east Ukraine part of Russia. It has more to do with he needs some fake excuse to invade the Ukraine. What does a country do with outdated fifty year old military equipment to stop an Russian invasion? How does such a country cause Russia any problems. It does not. He needs to do something with Donbas as almost no one lives there any more except a few old people. Over the next ten years they will die off and its population will collapse. If he makes Donbas part of Russia maybe someone will want to live there.
Not entirely sure why posting in the relevant thread is such a challenge for some.
Russia and China wants more real estate. The question is when is the best time to get this real estate and it's best they do it at the same time. Both Russia and China has bribed Biden and family and have compromising video and photo evidence of their crimes. They expect Biden to be soft against anything they do.
Cuffi..... I am surprised!
Obviously you wake up from a bad dream when you come to realise the actual international state of affairs....maybe by reading again the comments of Paul Craig Roberts!
Those Neoliberal fascists who are running your country.....do not understand that the Russians will have to protect their country again........from aggressive threatening Enemies. and of course have every right to do so........and I wonder, what are the benefits for USA and their NATO allies to fight Russia under any circumstances?
Wizz what are you bloody banging on about "Neoliberal fascists who are running your country" - Who the bloody phooking 'ell do you think is running YOUR lovely spots of the Earth both UK and EU/Greek? The City of London Rothschild's of course - the Ultimate Zionists.
Rather than hurl Molotov cocktails at the USA Maidan style - research the City of London, the Rothschild's relationship to JP Morgan's London Bond dealing father - the folks who actually engineered the Fed in 1913 as part of their ongoing Zionist plot to rule the world by Subduing all the planet's Central Bank's including that of the last free people on the planet - the Moscow Rossiya and their independent Russian Banks and Central Bank not owned Fed style by the CoL Rothschilds.
I can understand adopting a UK British Air of Superiority Lord Afi of Tallinn style - it's just the British way - - it is the blatant intentional boat job ignorance to the real TRUTH that I abhor.
An excellent article on the history of the current conflict in Ukraine: When Fanatical Ideology Bumps up Against Stone Cold Reality (https://www.theblogmire.com/when-fanatical-ideology-bumps-up-against-stone-cold-reality/)Manny he choose a side.
An excellent article on the history of the current conflict in Ukraine: When Fanatical Ideology Bumps up Against Stone Cold Reality (https://www.theblogmire.com/when-fanatical-ideology-bumps-up-against-stone-cold-reality/)
An excellent article on the history of the current conflict in Ukraine: When Fanatical Ideology Bumps up Against Stone Cold Reality (https://www.theblogmire.com/when-fanatical-ideology-bumps-up-against-stone-cold-reality/)
Also this:QuoteDoes Russia have a right to invade Ukraine?
According to Christopher Black, an international criminal lawyer based in Toronto who is known for a number of high-profile war crimes cases, yes.
Article here: The Legality Of War (https://christopher-black.com/the-legality-of-war/)
A slightly hysterical New York Times Article:The Hitchen lads always do stun the opposing view with the last sensible word. "That's a wrap!"QuoteIf we believe that Ukraine will one day become a member of the European Union and NATO, then we should be ready to arm it. We must face the fact that the costs of unlimited European Union and NATO expansion have meant war with Russia by proxy — and then fight the war. Having reignited the hottest moments of the Cold War, we must deal with the consequences of encouraging democratization in Eastern Europe.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/opinion/arm-ukraine-or-surrender.html?_r=0
Peter Hitchen's Reply:QuoteSupporters of this policy always pretend that they are acting against corruption and in favour of democracy. But this is just foolish boasting. The substantive difference between the pre-Maidan Ukraine and the post-Maidan Ukraine is purely one of foreign policy orientation. The rest continues pretty much as before . Claims of improved democracy are self-evidently ludicrous. The existing Kiev government (which has sought to ban at least one legitimate political party) came to power through extra-constitutional means and cannot possibly claim to speak for democracy. A for corruption, do we see any evidence that it has ceased? Is Ukraine’s government, or indeed any part of that country, currently in the hands of poor men, of practitioners of the career open to all the talents who have worked their way to the top purely on merit? It doesn’t look that way to me..
Above are of course snippets, full articles are on the links.
Discussion >>here<< (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=21499.msg377542#msg377542).
Yes, "the first 3:30 minutes is enough to understand his point" but nowhere in the whole 10 minutes does he substantiate his claim nor does he provide any legitimate insight into what Russia considers "security". It seems to me that his "knowledge" is based solely upon playing simpleton table games and watching John Wayne war films. "Gaps" he says! Jesus in heaven, what a twat! :chuckle:An excellent article on the history of the current conflict in Ukraine: When Fanatical Ideology Bumps up Against Stone Cold Reality (https://www.theblogmire.com/when-fanatical-ideology-bumps-up-against-stone-cold-reality/)
Also this:QuoteDoes Russia have a right to invade Ukraine?
According to Christopher Black, an international criminal lawyer based in Toronto who is known for a number of high-profile war crimes cases, yes.
Article here: The Legality Of War (https://christopher-black.com/the-legality-of-war/)
a vid labeled the 'myth of NATO provocations' Peter Zeihan
his contention that Russia is trying to form a defensive perimeter to protect it self from attack. he says that this desire has nothing to do with NATOs actions.
the first 3:30 minutes is enough to understand his point
Yes, "the first 3:30 minutes is enough to understand his point" but nowhere in the whole 10 minutes does he substantiate his claim nor does he provide any legitimate insight into what Russia considers "security". It seems to me that his "knowledge" is based solely upon playing simpleton table games and watching John Wayne war films. "Gaps" he says! Jesus in heaven, what a twat! :chuckle:
His point early on is well put. Many in the west think that "a country should do whatever it wants to do". Many not from the west think, "try to get along with the local 66 lb gorilla". It's not nice, but it's realpolitik.
His point early on is well put. Many in the west think that "a country should do whatever it wants to do". Many not from the west think, "try to get along with the local 66 lb gorilla". It's not nice, but it's realpolitik.
Thats one skinny-ass sickly gorilla there :8)
Wild male gorillas weigh 136 to 227 kg (300 to 500 lb) (source: Wikipedia)
Turkey will not let more Russian ships on the Black Sea. Russia will not be able to replace the ship.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Ukraine-war/Turkey-rejects-Russia-s-request-for-navy-ships-to-pass-Bosporus
His article is a must-read in my opinion:
The Military Situation In Ukraine (https://www.thepostil.com/the-military-situation-in-the-ukraine/)
Turkey will not let more Russian ships on the Black Sea. Russia will not be able to replace the ship.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Ukraine-war/Turkey-rejects-Russia-s-request-for-navy-ships-to-pass-Bosporus
Predictable. But the dead of night will always prove otherwise.
Turkey will not let more Russian ships on the Black Sea. Russia will not be able to replace the ship.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Ukraine-war/Turkey-rejects-Russia-s-request-for-navy-ships-to-pass-Bosporus
As it happens the war in Ukraine is not an official war but a family argument.......and Russia has plenty of boats in its bases in Crimea.......Sevatoupol etc.
While Turkey is offering to help with talks between the 2 warring parties, Ertogan and his government is aware of history. Turkey over the centuries has never won an army war against RUSSIA.
4) More importantly Turkey know that on the Middle and EAST SIDE OF tURKEY there are around 25 million Kourdish people, who are well trained fighters......and they want to create an independent Kourdish Nation as promised by the English government of John Major and don't want to upset Russia who has direct access with them. and supply them arms.
5) If they start a war for Leberation from Turkey then The "country Turkey" will be devided in 2 large nations.[/b]
As it happens the war in Ukraine is not an official war but a family argument.......and Russia has plenty of boats in its bases in Crimea.......Sevatoupol etc.
While Turkey is offering to help with talks between the 2 warring parties, Ertogan and his government is aware of history. Turkey over the centuries has never won an army war against RUSSIA.
4) More importantly Turkey know that on the Middle and EAST SIDE OF tURKEY there are around 25 million Kourdish people, who are well trained fighters......and they want to create an independent Kourdish Nation as promised by the English government of John Major and don't want to upset Russia who has direct access with them. and supply them arms.
5) If they start a war for Leberation from Turkey then The "country Turkey" will be devided in 2 large nations.[/b]
1) family argument??? actually, it will be whatever Turkey will defines "the special operation" as being whether the straits stay open
2) as for Russia having plenty of boats, you do realize that it was a ship sunk? a very large ship, 12,000 some tons. it is/was defined as a missile cruiser. in world navies, the 2nd largest naval ship, only smaller than an aircraft carrier. the Moskva and her sister ships were designed to attack aircraft carriers during the cold war. which is why her 16 largest missiles (telephone pole sized) are all facing forward.
3) are you going to trust that the previous centuries are going to dictate a modern conflict between Turkey and Russia? Russia is having such a great showing in Ukraine (in your opinion?).
4) you act as if this little family squabble is operating in a vacuum. Russia and Ukraine...Turkey and Russia...what about the Kuril islands, Russia and Japan? I have been reading/watching several articles/persons whose opinions are that there is no way that Russia could do 2 fronts simultaneously, let alone 3 or more. Russia is threatening Finland and Sweden also?
5) such a war monger you are, Wiz :biggrin:
6) 25 million Kurds in Turkey that are great fighters, come on Wiz :chuckle:
per wiki...estimated 30-45 million Kurds world wide. only 18-25% in Turkey. what is that total....(avg.)37mil * 21% = 8mil Kurds ( a spread of 5.4-11.2) . Wiz, do you have a different reference? all of them great fighters? how young are you, Wiz, arming? 11 year olds? maybe as soon as the child can reach it's ear over the top of his head, 5yo? are you going to be arming the girls also? that will double the numbers. how many great fighters are there now?
7) your opinion that Turkey would be divided in two? my opinion is that there will be a lot of dead people, mostly more women and children again
Well, FWIW, an American citizen, Gonzalo Lira, a pro-Russia blogger, according to report (if true) was kidnapped, tortured and murdered by the Azov battalion's Kraken Unit. Is being a pro-Russia make Mr. Lira any less a 'citizen' of the US that made him dispensable and deprived of any human rights protection. The US is arming the Azov battalion, which them makes the US complicit to this unlawful act?
https://kawsachunnews.com/chilean-and-us-authorities-silent-on-gonzalo-lira
Well, FWIW, an American citizen, Gonzalo Lira, a pro-Russia blogger, according to report (if true) was kidnapped, tortured and murdered by the Azov battalion's Kraken Unit. Is being a pro-Russia make Mr. Lira any less a 'citizen' of the US that made him dispensable and deprived of any human rights protection. The US is arming the Azov battalion, which them makes the US complicit to this unlawful act?
https://kawsachunnews.com/chilean-and-us-authorities-silent-on-gonzalo-lira
Was he part of the war like a spy? Whether yes or no how was Azov battalion supposed to know that. Was he helping Russia by contribution to the information war against Ukraine? A pro-Russian blogger where Russia is killing Ukrainians. Not smart. What would happen to a Pro USA blogger behind Russian lines? I am sure it would not have been pretty. Actually, this was pretty dumb on his part.
Maybe many, or some of you, are already aware of this. But for some who aren't...I've been watching this lady off and on for several years. It seems she is suffering some YOUTUBE blocks here and there.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEIFwLKlq1Q
Bodine, and others Gonzalo Lira is alive. He has been held by the SBU (and maybe others) for the past week. He now appears to be under some form of house arrest in what looks like his apartment. Looking groggy as hell and obviously in a bit of a state.
He is, however, not dead - yet.
It seems like the fairly large scale public outcry may have worked in his favour, although we are unlikely to ever know the truth of that. But lower profile cases have not had such a positive (for now) outcome.
Maybe many, or some of you, are already aware of this. But for some who aren't...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEIFwLKlq1Q
Russia just cannot wait to invade next country for supposing depression Russian speaking people. This is the same line Hitler use. I have traveled to this country and meet Russia speakers there. No body I talked to felt persecuted by the government.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-general-announces-plan-to-invade-moldova-after-ukraine/ar-AAWuvVI?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7c79c87474224ec49e6b188593b01c9a
Well, FWIW, an American citizen, Gonzalo Lira, a pro-Russia blogger, according to report (if true) was kidnapped, tortured and murdered by the Azov battalion's Kraken Unit. Is being a pro-Russia make Mr. Lira any less a 'citizen' of the US that made him dispensable and deprived of any human rights protection. The US is arming the Azov battalion, which them makes the US complicit to this unlawful act?
https://kawsachunnews.com/chilean-and-us-authorities-silent-on-gonzalo-lira
I read yesterday that Israel is now working with CHINA using their RMB while dumping the dollar. I thought that was surprising as Israel is generally an ally of the US. That dovetails into what this lady is stating in the video (She stated this BEFORE the Israeli move) so the pieces are falling into place.
Israel adds China's yuan for the first time ever while cutting its dollar holdings in biggest currency reshuffle in a decade
Israel's central bank added yuan to its reserve holdings for the first time ever.
Previously, the bank only held US dollars, euros, and the British pound.
According to the IMF, the dollar's share of the total global currency reserves has fallen to its lowest point in over two decades.
Israel's central bank will add Chinese yuan while slashing its dollar and euro holdings in a move to diversify its reserve allocations and lengthen its investment horizon, Bloomberg reported.
https://news.yahoo.com/israel-adds-chinas-yuan-first-133259326.html (https://news.yahoo.com/israel-adds-chinas-yuan-first-133259326.html)
Jonas!
Russia just cannot wait to invade next country for supposing depression Russian speaking people. This is the same line Hitler use. I have traveled to this country and meet Russia speakers there. No body I talked to felt persecuted by the government.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-general-announces-plan-to-invade-moldova-after-ukraine/ar-AAWuvVI?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7c79c87474224ec49e6b188593b01c9a
Tex, Perhaps you can explain how Russia intends to do this? The Russian Air Force can not even control the air over Ukraine after 6 weeks of war.
Moldova is land locked between Ukraine and Romania. More likely the inhabitants of TransDneister rebel against Russian occupation and reunite with Moldova.
Well, FWIW, an American citizen, Gonzalo Lira, a pro-Russia blogger, according to report (if true) was kidnapped, tortured and murdered by the Azov battalion's Kraken Unit. Is being a pro-Russia make Mr. Lira any less a 'citizen' of the US that made him dispensable and deprived of any human rights protection. The US is arming the Azov battalion, which them makes the US complicit to this unlawful act?
https://kawsachunnews.com/chilean-and-us-authorities-silent-on-gonzalo-lira
He is alive... but shaken a little from the treatment he received from the NAZI Great Patriots... who confiscated all his equipment including his mobile ..... but he manage to get away???? and spoke live to one of his connections on the Free world.
No more details because he is still in the danger zone! ...Sorry
He is alive... but shaken a little from the treatment he received from the NAZI Great Patriots... who confiscated all his equipment including his mobile ..... but he manage to get away???? and spoke live to one of his connections on the Free world.
No more details because he is still in the danger zone! ...Sorry
WADR, he needs to leave Ukraine if he cares about his familt at all. :8)
He is alive... but shaken a little from the treatment he received from the NAZI Great Patriots... who confiscated all his equipment including his mobile ..... but he manage to get away???? and spoke live to one of his connections on the Free world.
No more details because he is still in the danger zone! ...Sorry
WADR, he needs to leave Ukraine if he cares about his familt at all. :8)
Yes, he is likely given a warning to leave then aloud to escaped. The Nazi in Russia not so kind.
Curious Number Of Russian Oligarchs Have Died Since Invasion Of Ukraine :fighting0025:
I came upon this document today.
https://osce.org/files/f/documents/e/7/233896.pdf
What do you guys think?
I think it's foolish to think of denying these idiots will hesitate to use civilians as human shields.
I think it's foolish to think of denying these idiots will hesitate to use civilians as human shields.
Like I said in another thread, all 1,500-2,000 (if the estimate is correct) that locked themselves in below the steel plant should not be bothered with an opportunity for their surrender. Instead, give them what they sought to do, die fighting for their cause. Shut all power down, stop any water delivery, block all septic system but make sure ventilation is open.
Once that's done, weld all exits shut tight - then forget they ever existed. Let them die for their cause v-e-r-y-s-l-o-w-l-y in the dark, never given the chance to ever see the light of day ever again.
They all deserve to be buried alive.
Everybody in Ukraine has a video camera. If Russian soldiers are mowing down civilians and bombers are carpet bombing cities, where's the video evidence? We only see well positioned bodies after an event takes place. I've even seen excavators cleaning up a bombed apartment building days after the bombing took place. Who in their right mind would begin a clean up operation if the enemy is close by?
Everybody in Ukraine has a video camera. If Russian soldiers are mowing down civilians and bombers are carpet bombing cities, where's the video evidence? We only see well positioned bodies after an event takes place. I've even seen excavators cleaning up a bombed apartment building days after the bombing took place. Who in their right mind would begin a clean up operation if the enemy is close by?
Satellite images from numerous sources show the bodies long before the Ukraine forces were near. Your just a pro Trump Nazi. So you take up for the Russian Nazis.
I think it's foolish to think of denying these idiots will hesitate to use civilians as human shields.
Like I said in another thread, all 1,500-2,000 (if the estimate is correct) that locked themselves in below the steel plant should not be bothered with an opportunity for their surrender. Instead, give them what they sought to do, die fighting for their cause. Shut all power down, stop any water delivery, block all septic system but make sure ventilation is open.
Once that's done, weld all exits shut tight - then forget they ever existed. Let them die for their cause v-e-r-y-s-l-o-w-l-y in the dark, never given the chance to ever see the light of day ever again.
They all deserve to be buried alive.
Yes, you are completely sick.
Who are the numerous sources? CNN and Yahoo news? They've lied to us so many times and only tell the truth when it's blatantly clear lies won't work anymore. For example, the NY Times had to admit the Hunter laptop was real and not Russian disinformation as they previously claimed. They also admitted Ashley Biden's diary was real. So if you believe the laptop and diary are real, then that means Joe Biden took showers with his daughter and Hunter shared a bank account with his father in which Joe took 50% according to Hunter's admission in a text to his daughter. Do you think Hunter and Joe paid taxes on that dirty pay to play money? And you're worried about Trump not paying his fair share due to sweet tax breaks given to the rich by Bush, Clinton, and Obama?
I see a lot of Americans bitching about Ukrainians getting slaughtered and want a real solution to the problem but you're never going to get a solution to this problem from a corrupt American government.
2/3rds of Americans now believe there was major election fraud. What took them so long to understand this? The other 1/3rd are still brainwashed by propaganda media to believe Biden is legitimate.
Tex, if you want to make a difference, get involved in fixing our elections and getting rid of corrupt politicians. Nothing else in this world matters with a corrupt cartel in power that is responsible for endless wars with the excuse that we're bringing democracy to those nations. They're lying. When will you get it? It didn't work in Iraq, Libya, Syria, or Afghanistan and you're dreaming if you think it will happen in Ukraine.
It's mind boggling to me that so many Americans think peace in Ukraine can be achieved by the corrupt people who stole our country. Has it ever occurred to you those corrupt people want endless war and particularly wanted this current war? You want Ukraine and other problems fixed? Fix our country first. You and your children and your children's children have no future if you and I don't take action to save our nation. Man up. Grow a pair and let's be on the same team to fix America and the rest of the world will benefit greatly.
Everybody in Ukraine has a video camera. If Russian soldiers are mowing down civilians and bombers are carpet bombing cities, where's the video evidence? We only see well positioned bodies after an event takes place. I've even seen excavators cleaning up a bombed apartment building days after the bombing took place. Who in their right mind would begin a clean up operation if the enemy is close by?
Satellite images from numerous sources show the bodies long before the Ukraine forces were near. Your just a pro Trump Nazi. So you take up for the Russian Nazis.
Who are the numerous sources? CNN and Yahoo news?
previously I posted one of Peter Zeihan's vids about the routes into Russia that they wanted to block.
this is about the importance of Ukraine's rivers to Russia.
most info in the first 5 minutes
the last part of vid has some comments about oil production and how it will be declining over the next few months and year or so
Halo seldom posts here now-
But this is a very interesting article
she shared,
from a former chinese ambasador regarding the conflict.
https://gaodawei.wordpress.com/2022/05/10/fmr-prc-amb-to-ukraine-on-russias-impending-defeat-and-international-relations/
[/quote
The post, in his official version, had been suppressed. Fortunately, you can read it here.
The analysis is very interesting and very accurate IMHO. However, I know some other posters here will disagree.
But this guy has spent a lot of time in Russia and Ukraine and doesn't belong to the Western media (SMI).
That's why it's quite unique.
The Daily Star isn't known for it's super accurate, unbiased reporting of the News.Despite perhaps a dubious source a couple naysayers here, I believe nuclear weapons may be used if certain events were to occur in Ukraine. Russia shows no signs of relenting, escalating is definitely a possibility.
Putin 'has given order for Russia to deploy nukes in Ukraine' claims Kremlin insider
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/putin-has-given-order-russia-27686367
The Daily Star isn't known for it's super accurate, unbiased reporting of the News.Despite perhaps a dubious source a couple naysayers here, I believe nuclear weapons may be used if certain events were to occur in Ukraine. Russia shows no signs of relenting, escalating is definitely a possibility.
Putin 'has given order for Russia to deploy nukes in Ukraine' claims Kremlin insider
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/putin-has-given-order-russia-27686367
Jonas!
I'd classify that unnecessary comment as a being a troll. I was merely stating my opinion on topic, and you want to make a silly comment to distort the truth. The US should submit to Russian demands not because of the nuke issue, but because Russia is correct in what they have been essentially forced to do, by the aggressive interloping US. The nuclear issue is a reality as well.The Daily Star isn't known for it's super accurate, unbiased reporting of the News.Despite perhaps a dubious source a couple naysayers here, I believe nuclear weapons may be used if certain events were to occur in Ukraine. Russia shows no signs of relenting, escalating is definitely a possibility.
Putin 'has given order for Russia to deploy nukes in Ukraine' claims Kremlin insider
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/putin-has-given-order-russia-27686367
Jonas!
Jonas perhaps you, Manny and others could start a group telling the rest of world to submit to Russia's demands to avoid WW3?
The US should submit to Russian demands ..... because Russia is correct in what they have been essentially forced to do, by the aggressive interloping US.Well said, Jonas! :thumbsup:
Jonas!