Russian, Ukrainian & FSU Information & Manosphere Discussion Forums

Information & Chat => Former Soviet Union History => Topic started by: Anteros on May 03, 2016, 07:56:42 AM

Title: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Anteros on May 03, 2016, 07:56:42 AM
The notion democracy includes free expressions of one's views, doesn't it? So.
My opinion is as follows.
Anteros has written
Quote
I think you actually probably agree with me that Putin and company use the Great Patriotic War aka WWII as a way to deflect away from bad economy and greed of his inner circle of Oligarchs.

I do not agree with that.
In the FSU 9 May was ALWAYS a great holiday, much has been devoted to celebrate it: concerts, movies, and so on. In Russia and Ukraine it was and is the same. You may call it the tradition to immortalize memories of GRW heroes and those who dead in the war. It was a big, very big tragedy for the country, it was a lesson also, it was times when soviet people presented their strength and unity, it was a kind of examination of humanity, it was an example of existential sense of life, it was examples of sacrifices.
If for example the economy is excellent the day of 9 of May will be celebrated more intensively so to say in the country.
Putin is just a president(just!) . We have here millions of people who waits this Day, and it IS IMPORTANT for them.

Just come here and speak with ordinary people who speak of GPW with eyes full of tears and I am sure you will understand.
But being intelligent lady I understand your way of thinking and I understand why your thought are of that kind. Sometimes we need to penetrate in the subject we analyse ...we must feel the mood of analysed event  to understand this or that in this complicated life. It's not simple...ever...

With all my respect to all members of the forum.  :)

What I wrote was directed at Av, not at you.  I am not surprised at your response. 

Also please understand that my criticism is of the Putin regime, not of the ordinary people who lost family members.  That is much different and on the actual day (May 9th) I will write something which is respectful and not critical.  Hope you understand the delineation of my thoughts.

Czenny was only answering with what many others would like to convey.....but in a more informed, personal and real style. You seem to have a real hatred for anything Putin/Russia and it surprises me that you spend so much time on a forum like this.

You'll also find that the "UK-pro Putin bunch" are only telling it how they see it. A strong man with plenty to be admired, taking decisions for his countries benefit but making some mistakes from a world citizen perspective. The thing is though, Western media do their best to portray Putin as the devil and sadly folk like you lap it up, whereas he's traditionally been less problematic or intrusive than any US president. You just don't like him because he won't roll over like a submissive dog.

It's clear to see why you can't grasp this after all the debates we've had. For us, its about the truth and you, a one sided American isolated mentality.

I don't dislike Russia at all.  If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.  He's taken his country 180 degrees in the wrong direction and it's you who laps up the pro-Kremlin propaganda.

Russia is a beautiful country with tough but beautiful people.  I just think they deserve better.  You should do some research about Putin and his St. Petersburg days and about Putin and his involvement in the apartment bombings which led to Russia getting back in to the Chechen conflict.

Are Russians living in exile also having a "real hatred for Russia" and "lapping up Western media portrayals of Putin"?  No, they love their country very much and they wish to bring changes which would improve the lives of average Russians, not just the elite, wealthy and connected at the top.  I suggest you start to read some alternative sources.  This one might help you.

http://imrussia.org/en/the-rundown/media-must-reads/2549-the-kremlin’s-perpetual-geopolitics,-the-putin-myth,-and-russia’s-long-search-for-freedom


Excerpt of article

"Nevertheless, both experts express regret that the Russian people are still very prone to propaganda. One explanation proposed for this gullibility is that people don’t really think about high-level foreign and domestic policy on a daily basis, and therefore, when it comes to these issues, they simply repeat whatever they have heard on TV. In reality, people are concerned about routine problems—health care, education, grocery shopping, work. Another explanation, then, is that constant evocation of the image of foreign enemies surrounding Russia and promotion of myths of the country’s patriotic past both serve as key instruments of mobilization. At the same time, Alekseeva and Bakhmin argue that propaganda cannot last forever, and eventually common sense will prevail. They also agree that in terms of mentality and culture, Russia is a European country, despite the fact that Soviet attitudes have deep roots in the public mind and “manifest themselves when the opportunity occurs.”
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: AvHdB on May 03, 2016, 08:27:32 AM

I don't dislike Russia at all.  If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.  He's taken his country 180 degrees in the wrong direction and it's you who laps up the pro-Kremlin propaganda.

Russia is a beautiful country with tough but beautiful people.  I just think they deserve better.  You should do some research about Putin and his St. Petersburg days and about Putin and his involvement in the apartment bombings which led to Russia getting back in to the Chechen conflict.

Are Russians living in exile also having a "real hatred for Russia" and "lapping up Western media portrayals of Putin"?  No, they love their country very much and they wish to bring changes which would improve the lives of average Russians, not just the elite, wealthy and connected at the top.  I suggest you start to read some alternative sources.  This one might help you.


OK it is an annoyance that I have with posters of RUA they will move an existing thread in a different direction to suit there opinions and thoughts. It is wrong in my opinion. (I admit I am also guilty) but there are others who seems this is a terminal disease.

Please why is it so challenging to just stay on the topic without injecting opinions, that are often only tagently related.  There are others with agendas, personally I wish they would just shut up.

I use your above quote trying to justify posting history or style, but I can find another bakers dozen from others to show the same behavior on various threads.

PLEASE EVERYONE SHOW AT LEAST SOME RESPECT TO THE CONTEXT OF THE ORIGIONAL THREAD.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: rosco on May 03, 2016, 08:39:17 AM
don't dislike Russia at all.  If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.  He's taken his country 180 degrees in the wrong direction and it's you who laps up the pro-Kremlin propaganda.

Russia is a beautiful country with tough but beautiful people.  I just think they deserve better.  You should do some research about Putin and his St. Petersburg days and about Putin and his involvement in the apartment bombings which led to Russia getting back in to the Chechen conflict.

Are Russians living in exile also having a "real hatred for Russia" and "lapping up Western media portrayals of Putin"?  No, they love their country very much and they wish to bring changes which would improve the lives of average Russians, not just the elite, wealthy and connected at the top.  I suggest you start to read some alternative sources.  This one might help you.


The difference is mate, I comment on that which is happening....not what I've been told is happening.

Putin has a dark past and he's made some decisions which I don't necessarily agree with but he can speak a lot of sense on many a subject. This isn't something I've found myself thinking whilst listening to the usual tripe delivered from Washington on foreign affairs. That idiot John Kirby is a great example....he should have been swallowed.

I'm not a Putin supporter, hating everything American, its just obvious that the Western media can't separate this and only portray a negative. If he were that bad a man, pulling down an entire country then why do statistics not back that up and why does he have such a majority support? Seems strange to me......

Av - Chill out and try to work around your condition. It's only a forum.....
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: yankee on May 03, 2016, 09:14:00 AM
All of this crap should be moved to its own thread.  Maybe something like "for thoes thate Putin but love Russia".
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Anteros on May 03, 2016, 10:31:33 AM
don't dislike Russia at all.  If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.  He's taken his country 180 degrees in the wrong direction and it's you who laps up the pro-Kremlin propaganda.

Russia is a beautiful country with tough but beautiful people.  I just think they deserve better.  You should do some research about Putin and his St. Petersburg days and about Putin and his involvement in the apartment bombings which led to Russia getting back in to the Chechen conflict.

Are Russians living in exile also having a "real hatred for Russia" and "lapping up Western media portrayals of Putin"?  No, they love their country very much and they wish to bring changes which would improve the lives of average Russians, not just the elite, wealthy and connected at the top.  I suggest you start to read some alternative sources.  This one might help you.


If he were that bad a man, pulling down an entire country then why do statistics not back that up and why does he have such a majority support? Seems strange to me......


You claim that you "comment on that which is happening, not what I've (you've) been told is happening", and then your write the gem above.

The irony of it is too much!   

:ROFL:     :ROFL:     :ROFL:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Manny on May 03, 2016, 11:14:40 PM
All of this crap should be moved to its own thread.  Maybe something like "for thoes thate Putin but love Russia".

Now done.

Excerpt of article

"Nevertheless, both experts express regret that the Russian people are still very prone to propaganda. One explanation proposed for this gullibility is that people don’t really think about high-level foreign and domestic policy on a daily basis, and therefore, when it comes to these issues, they simply repeat whatever they have heard on TV. In reality, people are concerned about routine problems—health care, education, grocery shopping, work. Another explanation, then, is that constant evocation of the image of foreign enemies surrounding Russia and promotion of myths of the country’s patriotic past both serve as key instruments of mobilization.

Substitute US for Russia in that and it still works.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Czenny on May 03, 2016, 11:55:17 PM






Substitute US for Russia in that and it still works.

  +1000   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Anteros on May 04, 2016, 12:03:07 AM
All of this crap should be moved to its own thread.  Maybe something like "for thoes thate Putin but love Russia".

Now done.

Excerpt of article

"Nevertheless, both experts express regret that the Russian people are still very prone to propaganda. One explanation proposed for this gullibility is that people don’t really think about high-level foreign and domestic policy on a daily basis, and therefore, when it comes to these issues, they simply repeat whatever they have heard on TV. In reality, people are concerned about routine problems—health care, education, grocery shopping, work. Another explanation, then, is that constant evocation of the image of foreign enemies surrounding Russia and promotion of myths of the country’s patriotic past both serve as key instruments of mobilization.

Substitute US for Russia in that and it still works.

I don't deny that Americans can be prone to believing propaganda.  Right now the left is upset that North Carolina wants men to use the men's bathroom, and women to use the women's.  It's pretty bizarre and I wonder, when will it end?

It was also true that America initially supported GWB and his war in Iraq.  Eventually people woke up and smelled the coffee.

Just like eventually Russians will likely wake up and smell the coffee that their economy is really bad, and why.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Wiz on May 04, 2016, 12:29:03 AM
Are Russians living in exile also having a "real hatred for Russia" and "lapping up Western media portrayals of Putin"?  No, they love their country very much and they wish to bring changes which would improve the lives of average Russians, not just the elite, wealthy and connected at the top.  I suggest you start to read some alternative sources.  This one might help you.

http://imrussia.org/en/the-rundown/media-must-reads/2549-the-kremlin’s-perpetual-geopolitics,-the-putin-myth,-and-russia’s-long-search-for-freedom

Poor Anteros

I really feel sorry for you for your ignorance and inability to recognize a propaganda site from miles away.

Just away for a few days.... and comeback to read the same old trolling crap.

Did you bother to read the about us page of the site you recommended or check the WHOIS?

Quote
About us

The Institute of Modern Russia (IMR) is a public policy think-tank that strives to establish an intellectual framework for building a democratic Russia governed by rule of law. IMR promotes social, economic, and institutional development in Russia through research, analysis, advocacy and outreach. Our goal is to advance Russia’s integration into the community of democracies and to improve its cooperation on the global stage.

PAVEL KHODORKOVSKY, President

Pavel Khodorkovsky is the president of the Institute of Modern Russia, an organization he founded to continue the work his father, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, began through the Open Russia Foundation.

Mikhail Khodorkovsky, isn't that Jewish Russian oligarch, Owner of "Yukos" who went to prison for not paying any taxes and was released and let to travel abroad by Putin?

Isn't he the same chap who before going to prison transferred all his Yukos holdings to the Rothchild's?

Hope you are paid well for your Trolling........ and your intellectual deficiency.

Commenting about the toilets on North Carolina is your level ..... but commenting about financial matters... beyond your simple understandings.

Just like eventually Russians will likely wake up and smell the coffee that their economy is really bad, and why.

When you wake up and smell the coffee .... you may realise finally why the Monkey you have as president came urgently to "eat with her Majesty our Queen..... " and why he went to Germany (your protectorate)  to tell the German people that they must sign the TTIP!

Check your financial STATS....... before opening your mouth and read the latest artcle by Paul Graig Roberts.

Listen what this chap is saying and try to understand.

Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Orchid on May 04, 2016, 12:46:27 AM
don't dislike Russia at all.  If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.  He's taken his country 180 degrees in the wrong direction and it's you who laps up the pro-Kremlin propaganda.

Russia is a beautiful country with tough but beautiful people.  I just think they deserve better.  You should do some research about Putin and his St. Petersburg days and about Putin and his involvement in the apartment bombings which led to Russia getting back in to the Chechen conflict.

Are Russians living in exile also having a "real hatred for Russia" and "lapping up Western media portrayals of Putin"?  No, they love their country very much and they wish to bring changes which would improve the lives of average Russians, not just the elite, wealthy and connected at the top.  I suggest you start to read some alternative sources.  This one might help you.


The difference is mate, I comment on that which is happening....not what I've been told is happening.

Putin has a dark past and he's made some decisions which I don't necessarily agree with but he can speak a lot of sense on many a subject. This isn't something I've found myself thinking whilst listening to the usual tripe delivered from Washington on foreign affairs. That idiot John Kirby is a great example....he should have been swallowed.

I'm not a Putin supporter, hating everything American, its just obvious that the Western media can't separate this and only portray a negative. If he were that bad a man, pulling down an entire country then why do statistics not back that up and why does he have such a majority support? Seems strange to me......

Av - Chill out and try to work around your condition. It's only a forum.....

It does not seem strange to me at all.
Statistics does not work in a country striving on fear.
There was time in Russia, when children thanked Stalin for happy childhood watching their parents being shot by government.
Majority of population supported Stalin creating the Evil Empire.
Putin is not as bad as Stalin, but.......
You can finish this thought for me.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Annushka on May 04, 2016, 02:55:35 AM
ЖитиЕ МоЕ :KISSSS:

Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: msmoby on May 04, 2016, 03:48:21 AM

Poor Anteros

I really feel sorry for you for your ignorance and inability to recognize a propaganda site from miles away.

Just away for a few days.... and comeback to read the same old trolling crap.

Did you bother to read the about us page of the site you recommended or check the WHOIS?

Quote
About us

The Institute of Modern Russia (IMR) is a public policy think-tank that strives to establish an intellectual framework for building a democratic Russia governed by rule of law. IMR promotes social, economic, and institutional development in Russia through research, analysis, advocacy and outreach. Our goal is to advance Russia’s integration into the community of democracies and to improve its cooperation on the global stage.

PAVEL KHODORKOVSKY, President

Pavel Khodorkovsky is the president of the Institute of Modern Russia, an organization he founded to continue the work his father, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, began through the Open Russia Foundation.

Mikhail Khodorkovsky, isn't that Jewish Russian oligarch, Owner of "Yukos" who went to prison for not paying any taxes and was released and let to travel abroad by Putin?

Isn't he the same chap who before going to prison transferred all his Yukos holdings to the Rothchild's?

Yet another Zionists v the world - 'excuse' from Wiz


MK''s mistake was to challenge Putin - to go back on a 'deal' to stay out of politics - and let the Oligarch's make money.

He was made an example of what happens if you take on the regime.

Pure and simple - that my last response - and this probably - will not see the light of day -  suggests that folks have something they need to cover up ...  :chuckle:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Wiz on May 04, 2016, 04:39:27 AM
don't dislike Russia at all.  If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.  He's taken his country 180 degrees in the wrong direction and it's you who laps up the pro-Kremlin propaganda.

Russia is a beautiful country with tough but beautiful people.  I just think they deserve better.  You should do some research about Putin and his St. Petersburg days and about Putin and his involvement in the apartment bombings which led to Russia getting back in to the Chechen conflict.

Are Russians living in exile also having a "real hatred for Russia" and "lapping up Western media portrayals of Putin"?  No, they love their country very much and they wish to bring changes which would improve the lives of average Russians, not just the elite, wealthy and connected at the top.  I suggest you start to read some alternative sources.  This one might help you.


The difference is mate, I comment on that which is happening....not what I've been told is happening.

Putin has a dark past and he's made some decisions which I don't necessarily agree with but he can speak a lot of sense on many a subject. This isn't something I've found myself thinking whilst listening to the usual tripe delivered from Washington on foreign affairs. That idiot John Kirby is a great example....he should have been swallowed.

I'm not a Putin supporter, hating everything American, its just obvious that the Western media can't separate this and only portray a negative. If he were that bad a man, pulling down an entire country then why do statistics not back that up and why does he have such a majority support? Seems strange to me......

Av - Chill out and try to work around your condition. It's only a forum.....

It does not seem strange to me at all.
Statistics does not work in a country striving on fear.
There was time in Russia, when children thanked Stalin for happy childhood watching their parents being shot by government.
Majority of population supported Stalin creating the Evil Empire.

Putin is not as bad as Stalin, but.......
You can finish this thought for me.

...... I would like to know how would you run the country that was near to starvation, after the collapse of the USSR, when he took over and what else would you do differently to reach this state of development?

PS: Don't forget that he has to deal not only with external enemies but also with the internal 5th Phalange of the Neoliberal Atlantists too. Anyway nobody can match the US perfect Democracy especially when they never had one to taste it!
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Anteros on May 04, 2016, 08:22:16 AM
don't dislike Russia at all.  If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.  He's taken his country 180 degrees in the wrong direction and it's you who laps up the pro-Kremlin propaganda.

Russia is a beautiful country with tough but beautiful people.  I just think they deserve better.  You should do some research about Putin and his St. Petersburg days and about Putin and his involvement in the apartment bombings which led to Russia getting back in to the Chechen conflict.

Are Russians living in exile also having a "real hatred for Russia" and "lapping up Western media portrayals of Putin"?  No, they love their country very much and they wish to bring changes which would improve the lives of average Russians, not just the elite, wealthy and connected at the top.  I suggest you start to read some alternative sources.  This one might help you.


The difference is mate, I comment on that which is happening....not what I've been told is happening.

Putin has a dark past and he's made some decisions which I don't necessarily agree with but he can speak a lot of sense on many a subject. This isn't something I've found myself thinking whilst listening to the usual tripe delivered from Washington on foreign affairs. That idiot John Kirby is a great example....he should have been swallowed.

I'm not a Putin supporter, hating everything American, its just obvious that the Western media can't separate this and only portray a negative. If he were that bad a man, pulling down an entire country then why do statistics not back that up and why does he have such a majority support? Seems strange to me......

Av - Chill out and try to work around your condition. It's only a forum.....

It does not seem strange to me at all.
Statistics does not work in a country striving on fear.
There was time in Russia, when children thanked Stalin for happy childhood watching their parents being shot by government.
Majority of population supported Stalin creating the Evil Empire.
Putin is not as bad as Stalin, but.......
You can finish this thought for me.

Thank you.  Some people are so blind that they cannot see the obvious.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Anteros on May 04, 2016, 08:29:25 AM
^It is common knowledge that Mikhail Khodorkovsky was put in prison on trumped up charges because he had the courage to offer the Russian people an alternative to Putin.  While democracy in the USA has peculiarities and is not perfect, at least we don't have a Dictator for life who puts political opponents in prison, or worse, such as the assassination of Boris Nemtsov.

You've got some nerve "wiz" to talk about posting propaganda and trolling.  :GRRRR:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Orchid on May 04, 2016, 09:01:23 AM
Thank you.  Some people are so blind that they cannot see the obvious.

They will have to open their eyes when provocative Putin will cross the last red line.
They will have to openly say they support Putin or their Queen.
I bet It will be Queen.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: AvHdB on May 04, 2016, 09:14:50 AM
It is common knowledge that Mikhail Khodorkovsky was put in prison on trumped up charges because he had the courage to offer the Russian people an alternative to Putin.  While democracy in the USA has peculiarities and is not perfect, at least we don't have a Dictator for life who puts political opponents in prison, or worse, such as the assassination of Boris Nemtsov.

Using the great circle route, Anty gets to the core issue.

The West has a tortured political system where the leaders are usually held accountable.

Russia has a political system where torture is common and there is no accountabilty.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Orchid on May 04, 2016, 09:18:27 AM
It does not seem strange to me at all.
Statistics does not work in a country striving on fear.
There was time in Russia, when children thanked Stalin for happy childhood watching their parents being shot by government.
Majority of population supported Stalin creating the Evil Empire.

Putin is not as bad as Stalin, but.......
You can finish this thought for me.

...... I would like to know how would you run the country that was near to starvation, after the collapse of the USSR, when he took over and what else would you do differently to reach this state of development?

It was not Putin. It was Gorbachov and Eltzin.
It was a time of bazaar economics and politics with hunger and tanks on Moscow streets.
Majority of Russians fell into complete poverty, some of them became incredibly wealthy.


PS: Don't forget that he has to deal not only with external enemies but also with the internal 5th Phalange of the Neoliberal Atlantists too.
 Anyway nobody can match the US perfect Democracy especially when they never had one to taste it!

Exactly!!! Take a look on Russian history. Russia never had a Democracy. Never ever.
Russian people have no idea what is a real Democracy.
That's why a long standing dictatorship is possible there.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: AvHdB on May 04, 2016, 09:29:58 AM
It does not seem strange to me at all.
Statistics does not work in a country striving on fear.
There was time in Russia, when children thanked Stalin for happy childhood watching their parents being shot by government.
Majority of population supported Stalin creating the Evil Empire.

Putin is not as bad as Stalin, but.......
You can finish this thought for me.

...... I would like to know how would you run the country that was near to starvation, after the collapse of the USSR, when he took over and what else would you do differently to reach this state of development?

It was not Putin. It was Gorbachov and Eltzin.
It was a time of bazaar economics and politics with hunger and tanks on Moscow streets.
Majority of Russians fell into complete poverty, some of them became incredibly wealthy.


PS: Don't forget that he has to deal not only with external enemies but also with the internal 5th Phalange of the Neoliberal Atlantists too.
 Anyway nobody can match the US perfect Democracy especially when they never had one to taste it!

Exactly!!! Take a look on Russian history. Russia never had a Democracy. Never ever.
Russian people have no idea what is a real Democracy.
That's why a long standing dictatorship is possible there.

Orchid well put!  tiphat And I thought it was Jason Bourne & James Bond on the streets of Russia

Why is it that a woman can see the reality so clearly and a bunch of pundits can I only come up with brain farts?
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Orchid on May 04, 2016, 09:37:54 AM
Orchid well put!  tiphat

Thank you, sir.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: rosco on May 04, 2016, 09:50:59 AM
Russian people have no idea what is a real Democracy.

Just like the USA then, judging by the circus otherwise known as US elections.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: andrewfi on May 04, 2016, 10:10:50 AM
Orchid, I think that you have absolutely no idea what the word 'dictatorship' actually means and maybe you should check up on the meaning of the word 'democracy' while you are at it. :)
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: andrewfi on May 04, 2016, 10:13:15 AM
Ant and AvhDb, you could both benefit from learning a little for yourselves about recent history in Russia.
Fantasy only gets you so far before your 'analysis' becomes risible and makes it much harder to give credence to that which you tell us in other areas where you might actually know something.

It is common knowledge that Mikhail Khodorkovsky was put in prison on trumped up charges because he had the courage to offer the Russian people an alternative to Putin.  While democracy in the USA has peculiarities and is not perfect, at least we don't have a Dictator for life who puts political opponents in prison, or worse, such as the assassination of Boris Nemtsov.

Using the great circle route, Anty gets to the core issue.

The West has a tortured political system where the leaders are usually held accountable.

Russia has a political system where torture is common and there is no accountabilty.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: AvHdB on May 04, 2016, 10:42:13 AM
Ant and AvhDb, you could both benefit from learning a little for yourselves about recent history in Russia.
Fantasy only gets you so far before your 'analysis' becomes risible and makes it much harder to give credence to that which you tell us in other areas where you might actually know something.

It is common knowledge that Mikhail Khodorkovsky was put in prison on trumped up charges because he had the courage to offer the Russian people an alternative to Putin.  While democracy in the USA has peculiarities and is not perfect, at least we don't have a Dictator for life who puts political opponents in prison, or worse, such as the assassination of Boris Nemtsov.

Using the great circle route, Anty gets to the core issue.

The West has a tortured political system where the leaders are usually held accountable.

Russia has a political system where torture is common and there is no accountabilty.

Andy, Let's just say you are both biased and naive. Perhaps you should live in North Korea? Please let us know how that goes. Av
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Anteros on May 04, 2016, 10:44:47 AM
Russian people have no idea what is a real Democracy.

Just like the USA then, judging by the circus otherwise known as US elections.

It is clearly not perfect yet we see now that if a candidate has courage and big balls speaking bluntly and fighting hard, the will of the people can be honored.

On the Democratic side right now we see Bernie Sanders doing his best to force a contested convention.  He might even get wise and run as a 3rd party candidate; except he knows that would hand the election to Trump.

Furthermore our President's are limited to serving 2 terms.  Putin found a way to change the Russian laws to his benefit.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Anteros on May 04, 2016, 10:45:30 AM
Ant and AvhDb, you could both benefit from learning a little for yourselves about recent history in Russia.
Fantasy only gets you so far before your 'analysis' becomes risible and makes it much harder to give credence to that which you tell us in other areas where you might actually know something.

It is common knowledge that Mikhail Khodorkovsky was put in prison on trumped up charges because he had the courage to offer the Russian people an alternative to Putin.  While democracy in the USA has peculiarities and is not perfect, at least we don't have a Dictator for life who puts political opponents in prison, or worse, such as the assassination of Boris Nemtsov.

Using the great circle route, Anty gets to the core issue.

The West has a tortured political system where the leaders are usually held accountable.

Russia has a political system where torture is common and there is no accountabilty.

Andy, Let's just say you are both biased and naive. Perhaps you should live in North Korea? Please let us know how that goes. Av

His style of endlessly blind propaganda would certainly fit with North Korea!   :ROFL:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Orchid on May 04, 2016, 10:51:04 AM
Ant and AvhDb, you could both benefit from learning a little for yourselves about recent history in Russia.
Fantasy only gets you so far before your 'analysis' becomes risible and makes it much harder to give credence to that which you tell us in other areas where you might actually know something.

It is common knowledge that Mikhail Khodorkovsky was put in prison on trumped up charges because he had the courage to offer the Russian people an alternative to Putin.  While democracy in the USA has peculiarities and is not perfect, at least we don't have a Dictator for life who puts political opponents in prison, or worse, such as the assassination of Boris Nemtsov.

Using the great circle route, Anty gets to the core issue.

The West has a tortured political system where the leaders are usually held accountable.

Russia has a political system where torture is common and there is no accountabilty.

Andy, Let's just say you are both biased and naive. Perhaps you should live in North Korea? Please let us know how that goes. Av

His style of endlessly blind propaganda would certainly fit with North Korea!   :ROFL:

He, probably, has already spent some time in Cambodia.
Never know...
We all have our secrets....   :ROFL:  :ROFL:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Manny on May 04, 2016, 11:08:51 AM
The West has a tortured political system where the leaders are usually held accountable.

Were Blair and GWB held accountable for their war crimes?
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: yankee on May 04, 2016, 11:52:04 AM
The West has a tortured political system where the leaders are usually held accountable.

Were Blair and GWB held accountable for their war crimes?

The winners are never guilty
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Anteros on May 04, 2016, 01:27:19 PM
The West has a tortured political system where the leaders are usually held accountable.

Were Blair and GWB held accountable for their war crimes?

Collateral damage in a war does not meet the definition for war crimes.  George W. Bush made his case for the Iraqi invasion and war in front of the United Nations prior to commencing that war.  With 20/20 hindsight we can see that the evidence was flawed.  Tony Blair IIRC also made his case in front of the British Parliament.  If I get the terms wrong, it's obvious I am not a UK citizen.

The point is that both leaders made their case, both to the public and to governing bodies. 

When George W. Bush had finished serving his two terms as President, he left office.  Tony Blair also left office per the terms of the British Constitution.

Vladimir Putin is still in power more than 16 years later.  Vladimir Putin committed carpet bombing and other real war crimes in Chechnya.  Vladimir Putin did not make his case for war at the United Nations.  He simply did it: in Chechnya, in Georgia, in Ukraine and now in Syria.  In Syria hospitals have been bombed.  His guy Assad used chemical weapons against men, women and children.  His guy Assad used barrel bombs against men, women and children.

There is no evidence that GWB or Tony Blair committed war crimes.  OTOH there is clear evidence that Putin did in Chechnya and Assad did in Syria.

The best proof, again, of one being a regime (Putin) and in the West not a regime, is that in the West they leave office.  They don't put competitors in prison (like Khodorkovsky) or assassinate them (like Nemtsov and the KGB fellow poisoned with Polonium in London).

Yes Putin was a strong leader in the beginning and likely what Russia needed.  He got lucky that Russia had the oil and natural gas boom.  He shot himself in the foot after that and perhaps he's been in power too long.  The Russian economy will likely get worse due to Putin's missteps and hubris.  The Russian people are who is going to suffer, and if you really care about Russia, that's a bad thing.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Wiz on May 04, 2016, 01:43:12 PM
It does not seem strange to me at all.
Statistics does not work in a country striving on fear.
There was time in Russia, when children thanked Stalin for happy childhood watching their parents being shot by government.
Majority of population supported Stalin creating the Evil Empire.

Putin is not as bad as Stalin, but.......
You can finish this thought for me.

...... I would like to know how would you run the country that was near to starvation, after the collapse of the USSR, when he took over and what else would you do differently to reach this state of development?

It was not Putin. It was Gorbachov and Eltzin.
It was a time of bazaar economics and politics with hunger and tanks on Moscow streets.
Majority of Russians fell into complete poverty, some of them became incredibly wealthy.

I completed the point you made about "Putin" and "Stalin" ... I described the situation (at the time,) in two words and asked your opinion of what else you would do in his position?

Like most of the people here, I know the historical events that took place during that time but you decided to ignore my question and instead you gave me a lecture for the same things that I described in two words. Thank you for the education.


PS: Don't forget that he has to deal not only with external enemies but also with the internal 5th Phalange of the Neoliberal Atlantists too.
 Anyway nobody can match the US perfect Democracy especially when they never had one to taste it!

Exactly!!! Take a look on Russian history. Russia never had a Democracy. Never ever.
Russian people have no idea what is a real Democracy.
That's why a long standing dictatorship is possible there.

You seem to have missed my sarcasm about the "US perfect Democracy", obviously your opinions and views are not formulated from the same images and news we watch daily in our screens. The loss of freedoms imposed to the US public and the daily killings of people by your police do not count. In Russia it's a dictatorship, but in America it's the PERFECT DEMOCRACY!
Take a good look at the current elections taking place and you may learn something.

Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Anteros on May 04, 2016, 01:46:48 PM
Thank you.  Some people are so blind that they cannot see the obvious.

They will have to open their eyes when provocative Putin will cross the last red line.
They will have to openly say they support Putin or their Queen.
I bet It will be Queen.

Yes it will be very interesting: if Putin stays in power and he keeps provoking the West until a confrontation ensues, will the members of the board who are UK citizens support the UK or a despotic dictator?   :popcorn:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Wiz on May 04, 2016, 02:13:53 PM
Thank you.  Some people are so blind that they cannot see the obvious.

They will have to open their eyes when provocative Putin will cross the last red line.
They will have to openly say they support Putin or their Queen.
I bet It will be Queen.

Yes it will be very interesting: if Putin stays in power and he keeps provoking the West until a confrontation ensues, will the members of the board who are UK citizens support the UK or a despotic dictator?   :popcorn:

Anteros

Russia and Putin are not those who keep provoking the other side but it is the US and it's NATO Allies who quietly and secretly deploy many 1000's of troops near the Russian frontiers on a daily basis and for what purpose do you think?

Your Neoliberals who running the show they are pushing for a war, they need regime change in Russia as they know that is the only way to save your economy that is going down the pun.

In this country we have a much better democracy than your "F... PERFECT ONE" and we are allowed to demonstrate and express our opposition to government decisions.... without been shot by our police, as it is the case in the US.

Time for you to get out, from your house, have a drink and find some one to have a good fun and a good lay, as AV dreams....... I t will make you the "world of good" and maybe your brain will start working again! The hours you spend on the PC is not healthy!
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Steveboy on May 04, 2016, 02:14:40 PM
Thank you.  Some people are so blind that they cannot see the obvious.

They will have to open their eyes when provocative Putin will cross the last red line.
They will have to openly say they support Putin or their Queen.
I bet It will be Queen.

Yes it will be very interesting: if Putin stays in power and he keeps provoking the West until a confrontation ensues, will the members of the board who are UK citizens support the UK or a despotic dictator?   :popcorn:

I would not support the UK in any way.. If there was a confrontation I will stand with Russia!! :smoking:

So best keep out of my backyard >:( 

That means should you step un invited into our Russian home or Moldovan home , as Liam Neilson said in "Taken" I will find you and I will kill you... :laugh:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Wiz on May 04, 2016, 02:22:13 PM
It does not seem strange to me at all.
Statistics does not work in a country striving on fear.
There was time in Russia, when children thanked Stalin for happy childhood watching their parents being shot by government.
Majority of population supported Stalin creating the Evil Empire.

Putin is not as bad as Stalin, but.......
You can finish this thought for me.

...... I would like to know how would you run the country that was near to starvation, after the collapse of the USSR, when he took over and what else would you do differently to reach this state of development?

It was not Putin. It was Gorbachov and Eltzin.
It was a time of bazaar economics and politics with hunger and tanks on Moscow streets.
Majority of Russians fell into complete poverty, some of them became incredibly wealthy.


PS: Don't forget that he has to deal not only with external enemies but also with the internal 5th Phalange of the Neoliberal Atlantists too.
 Anyway nobody can match the US perfect Democracy especially when they never had one to taste it!

Exactly!!! Take a look on Russian history. Russia never had a Democracy. Never ever.
Russian people have no idea what is a real Democracy.
That's why a long standing dictatorship is possible there.

Orchid well put!  tiphat And I thought it was Jason Bourne & James Bond on the streets of Russia

Why is it that a woman can see the reality so clearly and a bunch of pundits can I only come up with brain farts?

You still have not learn to read correctly our messages. Obviously you need a good taken care instead of dreaming......you are going.... blind.  :laugh:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Orchid on May 04, 2016, 03:09:25 PM
You still have not learn to read correctly our messages. Obviously you need a good taken care instead of dreaming......you are going.... blind.  :laugh:

   :o  What the animal is this?  :o
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Manny on May 04, 2016, 04:01:42 PM
if Putin stays in power and he keeps provoking the West

Wow, that never happened! Clearly a Fox news devotee.  :ROFL:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Anteros on May 04, 2016, 04:31:00 PM
Thank you.  Some people are so blind that they cannot see the obvious.

They will have to open their eyes when provocative Putin will cross the last red line.
They will have to openly say they support Putin or their Queen.
I bet It will be Queen.

Yes it will be very interesting: if Putin stays in power and he keeps provoking the West until a confrontation ensues, will the members of the board who are UK citizens support the UK or a despotic dictator?   :popcorn:

I would not support the UK in any way.. If there was a confrontation I will stand with Russia!! :smoking:

So best keep out of my backyard >:( 

That means should you step un invited into our Russian home or Moldovan home , as Liam Neilson said in "Taken" I will find you and I will kill you... :laugh:

 :laugh:

Let's hope cooler heads prevail.  Last thing the World needs is another war.  (Seriously now)
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: AvHdB on May 04, 2016, 05:00:25 PM
You still have not learn to read correctly our messages. Obviously you need a good taken care instead of dreaming......you are going.... blind.  :laugh:

Wiz,

Not entirely sure who you wish to address a Cloggie or an Orchid?

Perhaps when you have graduated grammar school and spend some time writing in English, you will be able to communicate in this language. If you can take any classes on social skills please do as well. As Andy reminds us English is a tricky language. Do you need any books of H. Potter to assist you, in fact you remind me a naughty bunny.

As for blind since I recognized a previously unknown painting by an important artist, I doubt being blind is an issue for me. As for some being intentionally stupid that seems to be a serious issue for some pundits of RUA.

Perhaps we can move back to issues rather than denial and insults?

Av
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Anteros on May 04, 2016, 09:25:18 PM
If Hillary wins I expect a rough relationship with Putin's Russia.  Thankfully, that's a very big if, as in HUGE.  :laugh:

I expect Trump will do his best to deal with the wiley Putin in a diplomatic and mutually respectful way.  My belief is that either Clinton or Trump will insist Russia get OUT of Eastern Ukraine and pay part of the costs for rebuilding, in exchange for recognizing Crimea as now being part of Russia.

What do the pundits think of this idea?
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Wiz on May 04, 2016, 09:50:00 PM
You still have not learn to read correctly our messages. Obviously you need a good taken care instead of dreaming......you are going.... blind.  :laugh:

   :o  What the animal is this?  :o

That comment was not directed to you........but to AV and his last comment!
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Wiz on May 04, 2016, 10:08:01 PM
You still have not learn to read correctly our messages. Obviously you need a good taken care instead of dreaming......you are going.... blind.  :laugh:

Wiz,

Not entirely sure who you wish to address a Cloggie or an Orchid?

Perhaps when you have graduated grammar school and spend some time writing in English, you will be able to communicate in this language. If you can take any classes on social skills please do as well. As Andy reminds us English is a tricky language. Do you need any books of H. Potter to assist you, in fact you remind me a naughty bunny.

As for blind since I recognized a previously unknown painting by an important artist, I doubt being blind is an issue for me. As for some being intentionally stupid that seems to be a serious issue for some pundits of RUA.

Perhaps we can move back to issues rather than denial and insults?

Av

Well I was right in the first place.... that you don't read our messages correctly.

 :offtopic:
It's becoming boring to come here and daily read the same tripe. Russia is bad, Putin is a dictator and so on and on like a broken record. Watching US TV or the BBC it's the same propaganda.

Don't worry about my education.....worry about you dreaming about.....it!

As to who is stupid on international affairs ... I let the other's to judge.

Time to do something more interesting than argue here with brainwashed people.

Back on Topic. now
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Wiz on May 04, 2016, 10:26:59 PM
If Hillary wins I expect a rough relationship with Putin's Russia.  Thankfully, that's a very big if, as in HUGE.  :laugh:

I expect Trump will do his best to deal with the wiley Putin in a diplomatic and mutually respectful way.  My belief is that either Clinton or Trump will insist Russia get OUT of Eastern Ukraine and pay part of the costs for rebuilding, in exchange for recognizing Crimea as now being part of Russia.

What do the pundits think of this idea?

Whoever becomes a president .... it will be the same old story.

In your comments you forgot to take into consideration the pentagon and the army suppliers that keep the US economy moving!

The Wall Street does not produce any added value for your GDP, only spread debt around the globe.

Why Russia should pay for reparations in East Ukraine when it is your stooge Poroshenko together with the CIA director J. Brennan, who started bombing Dombass and killed 1000's innocent people.

Russia is paying already the price by accepting over a million refuges from that part of Ukraine!

The US create the mess around the world...... invade, bomb and destroy countries but.... never pay.

Watch the NATO deployment in Eastern Europe...... and see what is coming next! :smokin:
 
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Manny on May 05, 2016, 01:16:42 AM
Tony Blair IIRC also made his case in front of the British Parliament.

There are some details here on this: http://www.arrestblair.org/blairs-crimes
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: rosco on May 05, 2016, 02:14:38 AM
The West has a tortured political system where the leaders are usually held accountable.

Were Blair and GWB held accountable for their war crimes?

Collateral damage in a war does not meet the definition for war crimes.  George W. Bush made his case for the Iraqi invasion and war in front of the United Nations prior to commencing that war.  With 20/20 hindsight we can see that the evidence was flawed.  Tony Blair IIRC also made his case in front of the British Parliament.  If I get the terms wrong, it's obvious I am not a UK citizen.

The point is that both leaders made their case, both to the public and to governing bodies. 

When George W. Bush had finished serving his two terms as President, he left office.  Tony Blair also left office per the terms of the British Constitution.

Vladimir Putin is still in power more than 16 years later.  Vladimir Putin committed carpet bombing and other real war crimes in Chechnya.  Vladimir Putin did not make his case for war at the United Nations.  He simply did it: in Chechnya, in Georgia, in Ukraine and now in Syria.  In Syria hospitals have been bombed.  His guy Assad used chemical weapons against men, women and children.  His guy Assad used barrel bombs against men, women and children.

There is no evidence that GWB or Tony Blair committed war crimes.  OTOH there is clear evidence that Putin did in Chechnya and Assad did in Syria.

The best proof, again, of one being a regime (Putin) and in the West not a regime, is that in the West they leave office.  They don't put competitors in prison (like Khodorkovsky) or assassinate them (like Nemtsov and the KGB fellow poisoned with Polonium in London).

Yes Putin was a strong leader in the beginning and likely what Russia needed.  He got lucky that Russia had the oil and natural gas boom.  He shot himself in the foot after that and perhaps he's been in power too long.  The Russian economy will likely get worse due to Putin's missteps and hubris.  The Russian people are who is going to suffer, and if you really care about Russia, that's a bad thing.

Some of what you say is true however;

1) One mans collateral damage is another mans murder. Are 26 middle eastern lives less important than say 1 american life? Collateral damage is a term coined to take the reality out of a horrific situation and used by folks hoping to justify war crimes. "Our drone bombed a building holding a wanted terrorist but 9 women and children were present" - Oh that'll be collateral damage....thats ok because they're not as important as us Americans.

2) You might want to double check who approved sending Libya's sarin gas to Syrian rebels.....your old pal Hilary seems to crop up but thats right....lets blame Assad. Have you also considered why Obama didn't get involved after 'they crossed the line'? Oh yea....those damn facts again. 
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: AvHdB on May 05, 2016, 02:45:10 AM

Whoever becomes a president .... it will be the same old story.

In your comments you forgot to take into consideration the pentagon and the army suppliers that keep the US economy moving!


I suspect you are largely correct, a prior president warned about this.


The Wall Street does not produce any added value for your GDP, only spread debt around the globe.


Amusing stupidity, but some one has to earn some bread. Certainly would not like to see Wall Street types repairing the sewers.


Why Russia should pay for reparations in East Ukraine when it is your stooge Poroshenko together with the CIA director J. Brennan, who started bombing Dombass and killed 1000's innocent people.

Russia is paying already the price by accepting over a million refuges from that part of Ukraine!


This has been discussed elsewhere on RUA, and while I doubt the numbers Mark presented, in total there might be and it is a big might a million who have fled, the majority to Kiev, still the capital of Ukraine. A country that Putin would like to absorb. Since Putin's actions have destroyed this region the Kremlin should indeed pay for the repairs.

It seems your selfish ego is greater than Presidential hopefuls. Why do you not run for Parliment you can rant there. Or RUA can take a collection up and buy you a better soap box for you to moan and groan on. The weather is getting better so enjoy the views.

The US create the mess around the world...... invade, bomb and destroy countries but.... never pay.

If you look at foreign aid and compare Russia's to the United States you will see that the US spends more. In fact just a wee bit more than the rest of the world combined. Because you did not get any change is not my problem. Maybe you can say you are a native of Somalia who is Jewish and are a cross dresser, with gender issues. In fact this would not surprise anyone on RUA if this was the truth & who knows what Uncle Sam might give you.

Watch the NATO deployment in Eastern Europe...... and see what is coming next! :smokin:

4,000 soldiers rotating in and out on a monthly basis in Eastern Europe. What is the problem? I sort of doubt anyone in the Kremlin is worried, but it keeps allot of reporters trolls busy.

This is my attempt at a Cuffy rant, I feel I need to keep on practicing.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Steveboy on May 05, 2016, 06:42:59 AM
Thank you.  Some people are so blind that they cannot see the obvious.

They will have to open their eyes when provocative Putin will cross the last red line.
They will have to openly say they support Putin or their Queen.
I bet It will be Queen.

Yes it will be very interesting: if Putin stays in power and he keeps provoking the West until a confrontation ensues, will the members of the board who are UK citizens support the UK or a despotic dictator?   :popcorn:

I would not support the UK in any way.. If there was a confrontation I will stand with Russia!! :smoking:

So best keep out of my backyard >:( 

That means should you step un invited into our Russian home or Moldovan home , as Liam Neilson said in "Taken" I will find you and I will kill you... :laugh:

 :laugh:

Let's hope cooler heads prevail.  Last thing the World needs is another war.  (Seriously now)

Governments always need wars secretly its a way to cull the population and kind of start again.. As Adolf so many times said "Its good for governments that the people do not think"

History has been repeating it's self for thousands of years I don't see any changes in the near future.. on that basis some time in the future there will probably be another world 3. Maybe not in the next few years but sure at some point..

Im sure as usual it will be the stupid people who pay the ultimate price... its life!

Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: andrewfi on May 05, 2016, 07:45:09 AM
AvHdB, you DO know how US foreign aid works don't you?

No, probably not. You probably have the misinformed notion that it is a form of charity designed to enrich and enlighten people in poorer places. Don't worry, lots of Americans think that and then get a surprise when they do some learning.

By the way, how do you manage to be so misinformed as to think that Russia has any desire to 'take over' Ukraine?

Might I commend you to read about the reunification of East and West Germany and the costs incurred upon the German economy and people. When you have understood the magnitude of such an undertaking you might want to apprise yourself of the basics of the Russian economy so that you can understand how such a feat is entirely outside the envelope of Russian capabilities.

AvHdB, try to think for yourself rather than accept the programming of others :)
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Anteros on May 05, 2016, 07:59:19 AM
AvHdB, you DO know how US foreign aid works don't you?

No, probably not. You probably have the misinformed notion that it is a form of charity designed to enrich and enlighten people in poorer places. Don't worry, lots of Americans think that and then get a surprise when they do some learning.

By the way, how do you manage to be so misinformed as to think that Russia has any desire to 'take over' Ukraine?

Might I commend you to read about the reunification of East and West Germany and the costs incurred upon the German economy and people. When you have understood the magnitude of such an undertaking you might want to apprise yourself of the basics of the Russian economy so that you can understand how such a feat is entirely outside the envelope of Russian capabilities.


That's right it did cost West Germany a ton of money because everything the former Soviet Union and Vlad touches turns to sh*t.

In regards to it being a feat "entirely outside of the envelope of Russian capabilities" maybe Russia should stop invading and destroying their neighbors territories and worry about fixing their own internal problems.  :'(
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Steveboy on May 05, 2016, 08:02:10 AM
AvHdB, you DO know how US foreign aid works don't you?

No, probably not. You probably have the misinformed notion that it is a form of charity designed to enrich and enlighten people in poorer places. Don't worry, lots of Americans think that and then get a surprise when they do some learning.

By the way, how do you manage to be so misinformed as to think that Russia has any desire to 'take over' Ukraine?

Might I commend you to read about the reunification of East and West Germany and the costs incurred upon the German economy and people. When you have understood the magnitude of such an undertaking you might want to apprise yourself of the basics of the Russian economy so that you can understand how such a feat is entirely outside the envelope of Russian capabilities.


That's right it did cost West Germany a ton of money because everything the former Soviet Union and Vlad touches turns to sh*t.

In regards to it being a feat "entirely outside of the envelope of Russian capabilities" maybe Russia should stop invading and destroying their neighbors territories and worry about fixing their own internal problems.  :'(

Do you drink during the day?  ;D
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Anteros on May 05, 2016, 08:03:47 AM
AvHdB, you DO know how US foreign aid works don't you?

No, probably not. You probably have the misinformed notion that it is a form of charity designed to enrich and enlighten people in poorer places. Don't worry, lots of Americans think that and then get a surprise when they do some learning.

By the way, how do you manage to be so misinformed as to think that Russia has any desire to 'take over' Ukraine?

Might I commend you to read about the reunification of East and West Germany and the costs incurred upon the German economy and people. When you have understood the magnitude of such an undertaking you might want to apprise yourself of the basics of the Russian economy so that you can understand how such a feat is entirely outside the envelope of Russian capabilities.


That's right it did cost West Germany a ton of money because everything the former Soviet Union and Vlad touches turns to sh*t.

In regards to it being a feat "entirely outside of the envelope of Russian capabilities" maybe Russia should stop invading and destroying their neighbors territories and worry about fixing their own internal problems.  :'(

Do you drink during the day?  ;D

In all seriousness I don't drink at all.  Last time I had just half a beer was three months ago.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Steveboy on May 05, 2016, 08:06:11 AM
AvHdB, you DO know how US foreign aid works don't you?

No, probably not. You probably have the misinformed notion that it is a form of charity designed to enrich and enlighten people in poorer places. Don't worry, lots of Americans think that and then get a surprise when they do some learning.

By the way, how do you manage to be so misinformed as to think that Russia has any desire to 'take over' Ukraine?

Might I commend you to read about the reunification of East and West Germany and the costs incurred upon the German economy and people. When you have understood the magnitude of such an undertaking you might want to apprise yourself of the basics of the Russian economy so that you can understand how such a feat is entirely outside the envelope of Russian capabilities.


That's right it did cost West Germany a ton of money because everything the former Soviet Union and Vlad touches turns to sh*t.

In regards to it being a feat "entirely outside of the envelope of Russian capabilities" maybe Russia should stop invading and destroying their neighbors territories and worry about fixing their own internal problems.  :'(

Do you drink during the day?  ;D

In all seriousness I don't drink at all.  Last time I had just half a beer was three months ago.

Smoking something then??
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Anteros on May 05, 2016, 08:11:24 AM
AvHdB, you DO know how US foreign aid works don't you?

No, probably not. You probably have the misinformed notion that it is a form of charity designed to enrich and enlighten people in poorer places. Don't worry, lots of Americans think that and then get a surprise when they do some learning.

By the way, how do you manage to be so misinformed as to think that Russia has any desire to 'take over' Ukraine?

Might I commend you to read about the reunification of East and West Germany and the costs incurred upon the German economy and people. When you have understood the magnitude of such an undertaking you might want to apprise yourself of the basics of the Russian economy so that you can understand how such a feat is entirely outside the envelope of Russian capabilities.


That's right it did cost West Germany a ton of money because everything the former Soviet Union and Vlad touches turns to sh*t.

In regards to it being a feat "entirely outside of the envelope of Russian capabilities" maybe Russia should stop invading and destroying their neighbors territories and worry about fixing their own internal problems.  :'(

Do you drink during the day?  ;D

In all seriousness I don't drink at all.  Last time I had just half a beer was three months ago.

Smoking something then??

Nope.  I just speak the truth.  Do you deny that East Germany was in poor shape after nearly 50 years of Russian forced "soviet" communism, under the leadership of Colonel Vladimir Putin in Dresden?

Do you deny that Eastern Ukraine is now a total mess?  Want to F something up?  Just send in the Russians.  :smokin:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: andrewfi on May 05, 2016, 08:12:57 AM
It is clear that the ant has a very tenuous connection with the real world that is for sure. After all, most of us are well aware that the reunification process had been going on for years before Putin was elected to president and also that one thing that can hardly be said is that the East German project has turned out badly - expensive a dead weight, but for the region, it worked out quite well.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Steveboy on May 05, 2016, 08:17:10 AM
AvHdB, you DO know how US foreign aid works don't you?

No, probably not. You probably have the misinformed notion that it is a form of charity designed to enrich and enlighten people in poorer places. Don't worry, lots of Americans think that and then get a surprise when they do some learning.

By the way, how do you manage to be so misinformed as to think that Russia has any desire to 'take over' Ukraine?

Might I commend you to read about the reunification of East and West Germany and the costs incurred upon the German economy and people. When you have understood the magnitude of such an undertaking you might want to apprise yourself of the basics of the Russian economy so that you can understand how such a feat is entirely outside the envelope of Russian capabilities.


That's right it did cost West Germany a ton of money because everything the former Soviet Union and Vlad touches turns to sh*t.

In regards to it being a feat "entirely outside of the envelope of Russian capabilities" maybe Russia should stop invading and destroying their neighbors territories and worry about fixing their own internal problems.  :'(

Do you drink during the day?  ;D

In all seriousness I don't drink at all.  Last time I had just half a beer was three months ago.

Smoking something then??

Nope.  I just speak the truth.  Do you deny that East Germany was in poor shape after nearly 50 years of Russian forced "soviet" communism, under the leadership of Colonel Vladimir Putin in Dresden?

Do you deny that Eastern Ukraine is now a total mess?  Want to F something up?  Just send in the Russians.  :smokin:

Your totally crazy!!! Your government has been murdering people for years! Bush murdered over 100,000 innocent people.. poking his beak in.
If it comes to WW3 Im going to have to shoot you first!!  :8)
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: rosco on May 05, 2016, 08:19:41 AM
AvHdB, you DO know how US foreign aid works don't you?

No, probably not. You probably have the misinformed notion that it is a form of charity designed to enrich and enlighten people in poorer places. Don't worry, lots of Americans think that and then get a surprise when they do some learning.

By the way, how do you manage to be so misinformed as to think that Russia has any desire to 'take over' Ukraine?

Might I commend you to read about the reunification of East and West Germany and the costs incurred upon the German economy and people. When you have understood the magnitude of such an undertaking you might want to apprise yourself of the basics of the Russian economy so that you can understand how such a feat is entirely outside the envelope of Russian capabilities.


That's right it did cost West Germany a ton of money because everything the former Soviet Union and Vlad touches turns to sh*t.

In regards to it being a feat "entirely outside of the envelope of Russian capabilities" maybe Russia should stop invading and destroying their neighbors territories and worry about fixing their own internal problems.  :'(

Surely the irony can't be lost on poor ant.

Some would say that everything the USA touches turns to shit and that the USA should stop invading and destroying territories and concentrate on fixing their own internal problems.

Honestly.....it's so uncanny.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: AvHdB on May 05, 2016, 08:39:38 AM
Your totally crazy!!! Your government has been murdering people for years! Bush murdered over 100,000 innocent people.. poking his beak in.
If it comes to WW3 Im going to have to shoot you first!!  :8)

Do you care to tell us the death toll in and around Grozny of civilians (women and children)?

Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Steveboy on May 05, 2016, 08:44:09 AM
Your totally crazy!!! Your government has been murdering people for years! Bush murdered over 100,000 innocent people.. poking his beak in.
If it comes to WW3 Im going to have to shoot you first!!  :8)

Do you care to tell us the death toll in and around Grozny of civilians (women and children)?

Im not sure about that.. very few in the grand scale of things if you added up all the innocent people including kids the US is responsible for killing in the last few decades. I can remember the exact amount for Vietnam but a few I guess.. Im guessing it would run into the millions??

Grozny ?
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: AvHdB on May 05, 2016, 08:45:44 AM
Your totally crazy!!! Your government has been murdering people for years! Bush murdered over 100,000 innocent people.. poking his beak in.
If it comes to WW3 Im going to have to shoot you first!!  :8)

Do you care to tell us the death toll in and around Grozny of civilians (women and children)?

Im not sure about that.. very few in the grand scale of things if you added up all the innocent people including kids the US is responsible for killing in the last few decades. I can remember the exact amount for Vietnam but a few I guess.. Im guessing it would run into the millions??

Grozny ?

Nice Moby swerve.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Steveboy on May 05, 2016, 08:49:00 AM
Your totally crazy!!! Your government has been murdering people for years! Bush murdered over 100,000 innocent people.. poking his beak in.
If it comes to WW3 Im going to have to shoot you first!!  :8)

Do you care to tell us the death toll in and around Grozny of civilians (women and children)?

Im not sure about that.. very few in the grand scale of things if you added up all the innocent people including kids the US is responsible for killing in the last few decades. I can remember the exact amount for Vietnam but a few I guess.. Im guessing it would run into the millions??

Grozny ?

Nice Moby swerve.  :thumbsup:

http://thevietnamwar.info/how-many-people-died-in-the-vietnam-war/  1.3 million

http://www.countercurrents.org/lucas240407.htm

You think I'm interested in a few deaths down in Grozny ?  :chuckle:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Wiz on May 05, 2016, 10:20:34 AM

Whoever becomes a president .... it will be the same old story.

In your comments you forgot to take into consideration the pentagon and the army suppliers that keep the US economy moving!


I suspect you are largely correct, a prior president warned about this.


The Wall Street does not produce any added value for your GDP, only spread debt around the globe.


Amusing stupidity, but some one has to earn some bread. Certainly would not like to see Wall Street types repairing the sewers.


Why Russia should pay for reparations in East Ukraine when it is your stooge Poroshenko together with the CIA director J. Brennan, who started bombing Dombass and killed 1000's innocent people.

Russia is paying already the price by accepting over a million refuges from that part of Ukraine!


This has been discussed elsewhere on RUA, and while I doubt the numbers Mark presented, in total there might be and it is a big might a million who have fled, the majority to Kiev, still the capital of Ukraine. A country that Putin would like to absorb. Since Putin's actions have destroyed this region the Kremlin should indeed pay for the repairs.

It seems your selfish ego is greater than Presidential hopefuls. Why do you not run for Parliment you can rant there. Or RUA can take a collection up and buy you a better soap box for you to moan and groan on. The weather is getting better so enjoy the views.

The US create the mess around the world...... invade, bomb and destroy countries but.... never pay.

If you look at foreign aid and compare Russia's to the United States you will see that the US spends more. In fact just a wee bit more than the rest of the world combined. Because you did not get any change is not my problem. Maybe you can say you are a native of Somalia who is Jewish and are a cross dresser, with gender issues. In fact this would not surprise anyone on RUA if this was the truth & who knows what Uncle Sam might give you.

Watch the NATO deployment in Eastern Europe...... and see what is coming next! :smokin:

4,000 soldiers rotating in and out on a monthly basis in Eastern Europe. What is the problem? I sort of doubt anyone in the Kremlin is worried, but it keeps allot of reporters trolls busy.

This is my attempt at a Cuffy rant, I feel I need to keep on practicing.

I am sorry but you have not the foggiest idea about economics , so I have no intention wasting my time with your silly comments.

In your effort to ridicule my comments...... you tried to make yourself look "like a clever genius"  BUT with your comments "About amusing stupidity",  you proved your ignorance.

Well those on RUA who understand economics......... told you in a polite way what they think about your comments!

Talking about Trolls, that remind me: "The pot calling the kettle black"...... talking for your self is very amusing!

No Need for me to add anything more. :smokin:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Ste on May 05, 2016, 10:47:03 AM
My MA was partly Economics, a quarter of it, Economics, Accounting, Law and another one I forgot, Sociology I think (boring)

Still don't understand it.....
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Anteros on May 05, 2016, 06:26:10 PM
AvHdB, you DO know how US foreign aid works don't you?

No, probably not. You probably have the misinformed notion that it is a form of charity designed to enrich and enlighten people in poorer places. Don't worry, lots of Americans think that and then get a surprise when they do some learning.

By the way, how do you manage to be so misinformed as to think that Russia has any desire to 'take over' Ukraine?

Might I commend you to read about the reunification of East and West Germany and the costs incurred upon the German economy and people. When you have understood the magnitude of such an undertaking you might want to apprise yourself of the basics of the Russian economy so that you can understand how such a feat is entirely outside the envelope of Russian capabilities.


That's right it did cost West Germany a ton of money because everything the former Soviet Union and Vlad touches turns to sh*t.

In regards to it being a feat "entirely outside of the envelope of Russian capabilities" maybe Russia should stop invading and destroying their neighbors territories and worry about fixing their own internal problems.  :'(

Surely the irony can't be lost on poor Anteros.

Some would say that everything the USA touches turns to shit and that the USA should stop invading and destroying territories and concentrate on fixing their own internal problems.

Honestly.....it's so uncanny.

What is uncanny is that Russia wants to be a super power again and be more like the USA.  :ROFL:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Wiz on May 05, 2016, 11:49:01 PM

What is uncanny is that Russia wants to be a super power again and be more like the USA.  :ROFL:

Russia it is a nuclear power, like it or not, has modernised its army and have shown you what they can do, with minimal numbers in Syria. It was very important the current leadership, when it took over, to modernise its arm forces to be able to protect its people from American aggression.

The USA want to have a monopoly status around the globe but Russia does not accept that anymore and looks that lately you made up your mind that you will have to share influence in certain parts of the world.

It is pretty obvious that in Syria you made a deal with Russia, so they reduced their actions…. But still protecting their friends and own interests. The Pipeline from Qatar to Med…..will never be build.

The US and its allies tried second time to bankrupt Russia and failed because Putin started preparations since 2006. Last time I looked Russia had 1450 tones of gold…. Can you tell us what are the gold reserves of USA?

Finally the Russian bear is not afraid of direct confrontation with the USA and have shown you that many times. Watch the next actions of Putin to clear up the Neoliberal Atlantis's supporters of your type of policies.... and Democracy! :evilgrin0002:
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Manny on May 05, 2016, 11:53:03 PM

What is uncanny is that Russia wants to be a super power again and be more like the USA.  :ROFL:

Russia it is a nuclear power, like it or not, has modernised its army and have shown you what they can do, with minimal numbers in Syria. It was very important the current leadership, when it took over, to modernise its arm forces to be able to protect its people from American aggression.

The USA want to have a monopoly status around the globe but Russia does not accept that anymore and looks that lately you made up your mind that you will have to share influence in certain parts of the world.

It is pretty obvious that in Syria you made a deal with Russia, so they reduced their actions…. But still protecting their friends and own interests. The Pipeline from Qatar to Med…..will never be build.

The US and its allies tried second time to bankrupt Russia and failed because Putin started preparations since 2006. Last time I looked Russia had 1450 tones of gold…. Can you tell us what are the gold reserves of USA?

Finally the Russian bear is not afraid of direct confrontation with the USA and have shown you that many times. Watch the next actions of Putin to clear up the Neoliberal Atlantis's supporters of your type of policies.... and Democracy! :evilgrin0002:

^^ Agree with Wiz.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: msmoby on May 05, 2016, 11:57:26 PM


Russia it is a nuclear power, like it or not, has modernised its army and have shown you what they can do, with minimal numbers in Syria.

 :chuckle: It has the support of a dictator a naval base...and has TOTAL air supremacy... :coffeeread:


Finally the Russian bear is not afraid of direct confrontation with the USA and have shown you that many times. Watch the next actions of Putin to clear up the Neoliberal Atlantis's supporters of your type of policies.... and Democracy! :evilgrin0002:

What is the basis for this funny notion .... ? The fact that Kremlin has shown it will physically interfere in neighbouring nations  ? All that has done is added to the list of nations wishing to join NATO...To me that's a foreign policy FAIL...

Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: AvHdB on May 06, 2016, 04:30:55 AM

so I have no intention wasting my time with your silly comments.

Please will you follow your own advice. (If you need help with a soap box let us know.)


you tried to make yourself look "like a clever genius"  BUT with your comments "About amusing stupidity",  you proved your ignorance.

While some women and other dealers consider me clever, I think it is more due to curiosity. As for genius some have said that about me before. In fact I have one skill that in addition to your amusing stupidity, you lack and that is common sense.


No Need for me to add anything more. :smokin:

Keep on :smokin: but try not to post for 8 about hours after doing this. And maybe you need a new supplier, spend a few quid more I understand the after effects will be less, but you are the knowledgeable one in this area.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Wiz on May 06, 2016, 09:35:40 AM
Russia it is a nuclear power, like it or not, has modernised its army and have shown you what they can do, with minimal numbers in Syria.

 :chuckle: It has the support of a dictator a naval base...and has TOTAL air supremacy... :coffeeread:

Makes no difference, the US knew about it BUT illegally were invading Syrian air space.
Russians were playing fair, stuck to their agreements with Kerry, advising the US in advance for their operations and paid with the lives of two of its pilots. Unlike the devious and dishonest US and Obama who gave permission to their lackey Ertogan in Antalya to shoot the Russian planes, ..... inside Syrian airspace. It is well know fact that the Turkish jets were loitering around the area, where the Russian jets would fly.


Finally the Russian bear is not afraid of direct confrontation with the USA and have shown you that many times. Watch the next actions of Putin to clear up the Neoliberal Atlantis's supporters of your type of policies.... and Democracy! :evilgrin0002:

A). What is the basis for this funny notion .... ?

B).The fact that Kremlin has shown it will physically interfere in neighbouring nations  ?


All that has done is added to the list of nations wishing to join NATO...To me that's a foreign policy FAIL...

NOBY

Your Above comments prove that you are not that knowledgeable about Russia, and its internal affair, as you claim!

A). Putin is the unchallenged and beloved leader of all the Russian people, with a popularity of 85%, unlike any other leader on the world. He is an extremely effective manager, a defender of the simple Russian people everywhere and it is my understanding that he is the last recourse for those who have been wronged by the authorities. Right now, nobody in Russia dares to criticize Putin personally, not because some KGB boys are going to come in the night and take you away, like the Stalin years but simply because bad mouthing Putin is now tantamount to political suicide.

A lot of Russian people are hurting, badly. Not because of the sanctions or the drop in the prices of gas and oil, but because of the corruption, incompetence and ideological blindness of the “economic block of the Russian government”. The economy is a mess due to corrupt governors, lazy government bureaucrats and outright sabotage by a quasi-universally hated “economic block of the government”. Sanctions (especially the denial of credits) and the fall in the price of oil do make things worse, but they are not the real problem or even a major part of the problem.

The individuals responsible for this mess are regularly mentioned on TV, by name. Putin himself who, when directly asked, praises the work of the government’s ministers. Everybody else, however, including all the opposition figures are now openly calling not only for resignations but even for jail terms for the guilty governors and even ministers. While Medvedev himself is rarely the personal target of such denunciations, Arkadii Dvorkovich (Deputy Prime Minister), Igor Shuvalov (First Deputy Prime Minister), Alexei Uliukaev (Minister of Economic Development) and Anton Siluanov (Minister of Finance) are now “openly hated” on Russian TV.

I read the above info at places you will not bother reading as you following the line… of your handlers.

B). Name just a few?

C). Which countries want to join NATO?

The Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland joined NATO in (1999), Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia (2004), and Albania and Croatia (2009). FYROM (Former Republic of Macedonia) there is a Greek Veto. Ukraine forgets it for now ….. and also Moldova too. MonteNegro there is an article on this board... read it!

I forgot Georgia, when the American agent Suck_my_willy was a president, but he escape to a new μισσιον, in Odessa. Big mistake by Putin not to take over Georgia, as many Georgian people wanted at the time. Abkhasia it's in every way connected and supported by Russia, as before their independence.

Where else the US is putting their nose? ..... Tell us please to learn about your mission.
Title: Re: If I disliked Russia I would be an enthusiastic Putin supporter like you.
Post by: Markje on May 06, 2016, 02:33:49 PM
Your totally crazy!!! Your government has been murdering people for years! Bush murdered over 100,000 innocent people.. poking his beak in.
If it comes to WW3 Im going to have to shoot you first!!  :8)

Do you care to tell us the death toll in and around Grozny of civilians (women and children)?

Im not sure about that.. very few in the grand scale of things if you added up all the innocent people including kids the US is responsible for killing in the last few decades. I can remember the exact amount for Vietnam but a few I guess.. Im guessing it would run into the millions??

Grozny ?

Nice Moby swerve.  :thumbsup:

http://thevietnamwar.info/how-many-people-died-in-the-vietnam-war/  1.3 million

http://www.countercurrents.org/lucas240407.htm

You think I'm interested in a few deaths down in Grozny ?  :chuckle:
According to Wikipedia it wasn't even in the 10k region.

1.3k Russian military wounded and 369 casualties. Grozny militia suffered around 700 deaths before surrendering.

The civilian population is assumed to have double death count because of heavy shelling.

Right, so thats about 10k MAX deaths.

Nice swerve though, trying to bring up "grozny" as if its important in the grand scheme of things.
People apparently also keep trying to forget how "grozny" came into being. One cannot keep poking a sleeping bear with a stick and expect it to never hit you because its much, much stronger.

Mark