Is Anastasiadate a scam or for real?
It's one of the worst dating websites one can use.Yes the worst, equally with allsinglerussiangirls/datingandmatchmaking.
Is Anastasiadate a scam or for real?
Is Anastasiadate a scam or for real?
Your first post and you asking a question that has been covered repeatedly by previous discussion and comment. Might I politely suggest you do a couple hours of archive research and then come back to this thread with any unanswered questions you might have.
Is Anastasiadate a scam or for real?
It's both.
Is Anastasiadate a scam or for real?
It's both.
Agreed!
For me it was mostly a scam. But I can see how you can luck into a nice lady there.
Here is a general rule that, sadly, holds true more often than not:
If you write to a drop-dead gorgeous girl and she ignores you, she is sincere.
If she responds, she is a scammer.
The moral of this story is that we guarantee our failure by the choices that we make.
Sorry for my English.
Bravo to BeachBum. Bravo for Russianbridereality.
I too have been victim.
!% Percent good, 99% bad. Nice girls not last long at the agency. When they get tired, some deleted their profile, but others leave. These profiles are managed abandoned by others. Sometimes male ..
Personally speaking I checked Eugeni. That was in Nykolaev and he confirmed that charged money for this work.
In situ, it is best to meet Ukrainian women. VK is best if you decide to go later.
In August, I will marry a lovely girl I met by VK.
I'd love to help the thousands of victims of these agencies. Some billed tens of millions of dollars monthly. It is easy to calculate.
Hello desde España...
Anyone knows this email address?
flowerfield@mail.ru
Corresponds to a girl Anastasia.
Her name is Ekaterina Dolgaja Igorevna.
It takes more than 4 years writing letters.
She is restrained. She is writing only 10 to 12 men during that time.
Sorry for my English.
Bravo to BeachBum. Bravo for Russianbridereality.
I too have been victim.
!% Percent good, 99% bad. Nice girls not last long at the agency. When they get tired, some deleted their profile, but others leave. These profiles are managed abandoned by others. Sometimes male ..
Personally speaking I checked Eugeni. That was in Nykolaev and he confirmed that charged money for this work.
In situ, it is best to meet Ukrainian women. VK is best if you decide to go later.
In August, I will marry a lovely girl I met by VK.
I'd love to help the thousands of victims of these agencies. Some billed tens of millions of dollars monthly. It is easy to calculate.
Hello desde España...
Anyone knows this email address?
flowerfield@(removed).ru
Corresponds to a girl Anastasia.
Her name is Ekaterina (last name removed) Igorevna.
It takes more than 4 years writing letters.
She is restrained. She is writing only 10 to 12 men during that time.
It takes more than 4 years writing letters.
Long ago I've healed the wounds that made me Ekaterina.
Now is the time to help others. Thank you.
Dear Avhdb:
I see that you are not very objective.
I also see that you know everything ....
You want to torpedo?
It tries to attack or to collaborate in a discussion to get some education?
Anyway, thanks for bothering to write and give life to this forum.
If you exchange enough messages (I think 15 in total) you can exchange details.
... you can pick as much addresses as you like...
... you can pick as much addresses as you like...
:-\
Do you like to collect addresses?
Email addresses that no one answers
Fake street addresses.
Phone nonexistent.
Forgiveness.
I mean, one person manages the profiles of 10 girls.
The information that become available in this forum is dangerous for the businesses who based on deceiving people, and valuable for the potential victims.
It shouldn't be preserved behind closed doors!
It should bomb any site throughout the web, so many potential victims will not have to fall to this trap just because they didn't know.
It is very laborious to study a range of 0 to $ 20 per card.
Other hotties tend to write about the kind of sex they will be enjoying with you.You name it,they'll be more than happy to participate.They'll delight in telling you the same things when they're on webcam chat too.
On other sites,that are not pay per letter/pay to chat,these kind of smokin hot girls/women won't write to you.
I wonder why that is ?
I'm too young. Find a girlfriend from 18 to 27 years is
more or less normal.
I'm too young. Find a girlfriend from 18 to 27 years is
more or less normal.
How old is "too young?"
I never hide my head under the wings.
I'm too young. Find a girlfriend from 18 to 27 years is
more or less normal.
When I've met a few girls during my several trips to Ukraine, I have demonstrated that they support age differences of up to 15 years.
How old is "too young?"
18 + 15 = 33.
18 + 15 = 33.
27 + 15 = 42 is also possible.
(He didn't write that every girl would accept a 15-year age gap.)
I'm too young. Find a girlfriend from 18 to 27 years is
more or less normal.
Dear Brasscasing,
Making an accusation is very serious.
Everything I write here can be read by the defendants.
So I believe that only speak from what I can prove.
With evidence or witnesses.
I never hide my head under the wings.
Your questions ...
Before, when someone wrote 16 letters to Anastasia, the agency facilitated the personal data of the girl.
From there,
a) Why not arrange a meeting directly with the girl?
b) Why not buy flowers or a gift ODESSA stores?
c) Why not hire an apartment in Kiev or L'VIV?
d) Why not find an interpreter in place of the appointment?
I'm too young. Find a girlfriend from 18 to 27 years is
more or less normal.
Furthermore, I recommend that you set in the profiles of the girls. 99.99% of the candidates seeking exchanges with men 50 to 75 years.
When I've met a few girls during my several trips to Ukraine, I have demonstrated that they support age differences of up to 15 years.
They are mature early.
Sincerely.
I just don't get why some guys are still using this scam agency after being taken. There are more than enough threads here on this forum and many others stating to stay away from pay-per-letter/credit type sites. I used Anastasia for almost 2 years and it was a complete waste of money. I moved over to a monthly pay site and now I'm working on my fiance's K1. Your odds of finding a real lady interested in just you on this site are miniscule. Just move on.....
I just don't get why some guys are still using this scam agency after being taken. There are more than enough threads here on this forum and many others stating to stay away from pay-per-letter/credit type sites. I used Anastasia for almost 2 years and it was a complete waste of money. I moved over to a monthly pay site and now I'm working on my fiance's K1. Your odds of finding a real lady interested in just you on this site are miniscule. Just move on.....
For the same reason that some people can not stay away from a casino.
Source of info?
Ukrainedate.com worked for me! Give it a try. Good luck!!
Skype is the most important thing to use.
If they consistently give you some excuse as to why they cannot talk with you on skype, it's almost always a sign that you should move on to someone else.
I spoke only twice, and clearly that person had nothing in common with the person with whom I had been writing for so long.
Hello Mr. TomT,
Yes, I spoke by phone with Marina. She was really Marina?
I can not insure.
This was possible in the second attempt. With the first number provided by Anastasia I only got to speak with a Ukrainian man very serious voice.
Marina had a very poor English, but enough to understand on the essentials.
I spoke only twice, and clearly that person had nothing in common with the person with whom I had been writing for so long.
Marina's profile is still present in Anastasia. It is very clear that it is consulted by the same person who is handling several other profiles.
A friend of mine lives in Nykolaev. He has been found that in the direction that the agency gave me, there is a store where someone has never lived.
And the owner of that phone number is a lady who works as an official of the state and whose age exceeds 50 years.
Tom, you can give me your opinion on the situation that I have lived with Marina?
regards
So tell us Tom-- how many girls have you tried to meet in teh last 10 years? On Anastasia?In Nikolayev?In Ukraine?
With your expertise you will be able to check with 100% certainty--why dont you do that?
Your happy to hand out insults -- and what--run to moderater/admin when someone challenges you?So tell us Tom-- how many girls have you tried to meet in teh last 10 years? On Anastasia?In Nikolayev?In Ukraine?
With your expertise you will be able to check with 100% certainty--why dont you do that?
I'm not going to write a treatise for every little twit with a personality disorder who thinks that he can bait me. Get your petulent butt back to the other thread and answer Ade's question.
Your happy to hand out insults -- and what--run to moderater/admin when someone challenges you?So tell us Tom-- how many girls have you tried to meet in teh last 10 years? On Anastasia?In Nikolayev?In Ukraine?
With your expertise you will be able to check with 100% certainty--why dont you do that?
I'm not going to write a treatise for every little twit with a personality disorder who thinks that he can bait me. Get your petulent butt back to the other thread and answer Ade's question.
Why dont you answer the question? You hand out advice holding yourself out as an expert--in this specific case--I asked what your expertise actually is? What do you actually know that is relevent?
Please bear in mind that the target demographic (and the greatest source of revenue) consists of imbeciles who will never travel. Given this, they have no motivation to change their method of doing business.
Even though there are normal girls to be found on AD, I suspect that one's odds would be better on a site such as bride.ru where direct contact information is available.
In the letter, put tempting reasons for a Ukrainian girl would accept my invitation,
(On the street, with the third part of the proposals, I had complete success.)
None of them accepted my proposals.
"In Anastasia You will not find a woman. You search for it on the street. "
We already know that they are arguably the worst International Marriage Broker in the world; you don't need to convince us.
Summing it up:
When send expression of interest to a girl of 30 something on Elena's models, you get negative answer nine times out of ten (the tenth confuses with the buttons). But when you add 19 y.o. 20 something hot gorgeous girl to a contact list on Anastasia - you might get letter tomorrow. Would you like to read? :money:
Summing it up:
When send expression of interest to a girl of 30 something on Elena's models, you get negative answer nine times out of ten (the tenth confuses with the buttons). But when you add 19 y.o. 20 something hot gorgeous girl to a contact list on Anastasia - you might get letter tomorrow. Would you like to read? :money:
The time that you spend pursuing Anastasia would be more productively spent searching for a serious girl. We already know that they are arguably the worst International Marriage Broker in the world; you don't need to convince us.
Yes, it's abundantly clear that there are financial ties between companies that share databases. In some cases, they have common ownership. It's also well-known that the large brokers make direct payments to their local affiliates. This is not anything new; agencies have been scamming their clients since day one. It's just much better organized now. The key is to find a strategy to get what you want out of them; anything else is a total failure.
I really prefer not to waste a lot of time dissecting their operation. Doing business with them is very risky for someone who can't tell the difference between a scam and a good opportunity; that's all that readers need to know.
Why have some of these American companies not been pursued through the court system in the US?It is clear that the representations made are flawed. Tom -you give good advice to individual that his time would be better spent trying to achieve his personal original aims--I think most come to that conclusion and lose interest in bigger picture issues.Have there been attempts to sue? Class action?
I also take note here of the connections and vested interests of many-- so I am sure that you will have views on this
Why have some of these American companies not been pursued through the court system in the US?It is clear that the representations made are flawed. Tom -you give good advice to individual that his time would be better spent trying to achieve his personal original aims--I think most come to that conclusion and lose interest in bigger picture issues.Have there been attempts to sue? Class action?
I also take note here of the connections and vested interests of many-- so I am sure that you will have views on this
The Terms of Service for International Marriage Broker sites are written by extremely competent attorneys and the damn fool clients don't read them. Yes, there have been attempts to bring suit and, not surprisingly, they have failed miserably. Half of the reason is that the plaintiffs have been whack-jobs; the other half is that defendants have massive resources for litigation and are well prepared.
The key is to find a strategy to get what you want out of them;'Nuff said'
that's all that readers need to know.
The Terms of Service for International Marriage Broker sites are written by extremely competent attorneys and the damn fool clients don't read them. Yes, there have been attempts to bring suit and, predictably, they have failed miserably. When plaintiffs are whack-jobs who sue for things that they weren't promised and defendants have massive resources for litigation, what other outcome is possible?
The Terms of Service for International Marriage Broker sites are written by extremely competent attorneys and the damn fool clients don't read them. Yes, there have been attempts to bring suit and, predictably, they have failed miserably. When plaintiffs are whack-jobs who sue for things that they weren't promised and defendants have massive resources for litigation, what other outcome is possible?
I think that as you make the presumption on here that many are "whack-jobs" when they arrive here with questions-- and in many cases you are probably correct.
Not all who go and lose their money irrationally are "whack'jobs"-- some choose to spend money on sites in good faith and belief-- so let us suppose someone can pass that non-wacko test.
Given that money is paid in good faith -- and the reality is what they think they are buying is often not as purported -why do they not have a cause of action?
Av -- I think that there are plenty who have spent north of $10,000 . It is very easy to spend more than $200 per week or more-- so the sums are not trivial.I would guess a class action to recover outgoings would easily run into $millions fairly quickly--let alone the damages.?
I think that as you make the presumption on here that many are "whack-jobs" when they arrive here n?
JayH, The damage is usually done to one's self esteem ~ that is hard to monetize. Most men probably spend less than $200,= and I am confident that Anastasia can point to successes. AvHdB
Av -- I think that there are plenty who have spent north of $10,000 . It is very easy to spend more than $200 per week or more-- so the sums are not trivial.I would guess a class action to recover outgoings would easily run into $millions fairly quickly--let alone the damages.?
I think that as you make the presumption on here that many are "whack-jobs" when they arrive here n?
JayH, The damage is usually done to one's self esteem ~ that is hard to monetize. Most men probably spend less than $200,= and I am confident that Anastasia can point to successes. AvHdB
I think that as you make the presumption on here that many are "whack-jobs" when they arrive here with questions-- and in many cases you are probably correct.
Not all who go and lose their money irrationally are "whack'jobs"-- some choose to spend money on sites in good faith and belief-- so let us suppose someone can pass that non-wacko test.
Given that money is paid in good faith -- and the reality is what they think they are buying is often not as purported -why do they not have a cause of action?
The extention to that is that the fundamental premise that induced the "client" to enter that agreement is
a misrepresentation.
Advertising puffery does not constitute a contract. If it did, everyone would be suing toothpaste
companies because their teeth aren't white enough.
I am unaware of a successful suit.
Is there an association of victims of such abuses?
Anastasia has a financial relationship, at least, with the following companies: www.alena-marriage-agency.com,
www.aliceagency.com
www.bestdatingnow.com,
www.drivedating.com,
www.gofreedate.com,
www.lovessa.com,
www.marry-ukrainian-woman.com
www.my-russian-lady.com
www.natasha.com,
www.online-dating-*Unapproved Link*,
www.rupersonal.com,
www.russian brides.club.com.
My suspicion is that, allegedly, Anastasia has financial relationships with other companies engaged in sex drive.
Anyone know anything about this?
Greetings to all
I would like to hear from members who would help me bring Anastasia to the attention of the Maine Attorney General. They should be indicted for fraud in my opinion. Several men need to band together to make this happen. Anyone interested?
Some girls appear on 20 different sites. Sometimes some details are different.
I suppose that that's one advantage of video chat: at least you know that she hasn't moved away yet.
Doesn't mean that she isn't married and just video chatting to earn some money.
One would hope that a guy could tell the difference between a live session and one that was prerecorded. If he can't, then it's probably for the best that he doesn't breed.
Doesn't mean that she isn't married and just video chatting to earn some money.
That's true.
Greetings ..
I returned from Ukraine. There the heat is unbearable.
Never been like this before.
I am very happy to have spent a few days with my love.
Now back to work
Is your love one of the girls whom you previously believed to be part of an Anastasia scam?
Greetings ..
I returned from Ukraine. There the heat is unbearable.
Never been like this before.
I am very happy to have spent a few days with my love.
Now back to work
Is your love one of the girls whom you previously believed to be part of an Anastasia scam?Greetings ..
I returned from Ukraine. There the heat is unbearable.
Never been like this before.
I am very happy to have spent a few days with my love.
Now back to work
Yesterday was warm and about ten days ago it was low 30's but the rest of the time in Western Ukraine it was bearable. If you want the other extreme travel in January or February when there is a cold snap.
We would be curious to see you travel expeirences and how it went with your love.
Is your love one of the girls whom you previously believed to be part of an Anastasia scam?
Is your love one of the girls whom you previously believed to be part of an Anastasia scam?
That is precisely why it will be most interesting to see outcome.
Of all the sites Anastasia is probably the easiest to verify the girl-- that she is real etc. It does not however-- do any more than that.It makes it all the more interesting to hear what did happen in this case.
How would you do that? (without :money: ?)
She is a motherly woman, who wants to have children.
She takes responsibility for the administration of our future home.
She is very jealous, and she loves me.
She has recently finished college and she wants to marry me as soon as possible.
She speaks English well enough.
She is very pretty.
What more could you want from your partner?
Is Anastasiadate a scam or for real?
You think Anastasia is automated?
trei,
Ain't progress grand?
crazy how many men get caught out by this.... I did
marriageagencyscams.com
I just discovered tonight.
The promoter is Jim. It is very interesting.
What do you think of it?
I'm about to revise my opinion of this website from 'some substance' to out-and-out sham.
I gave some more personal details but did not include a single email or url. I referenced a number of things that are useful if anyone wanted to find me on the internet (as I work in computers and have been on the net for over 20 years - i am not hard to find with even basic searches)
The letter I received in response was very short and claimed that the letter she received was essentially hacked to bits by censors rivaling the former KGB and she was given no useful information with which to find me outside of anastasia.
1) this girl is dumb as a post (which I doubt) and doesn't know how to google
2) they did in fact hack the crap out of the message to remove any possible clue that would allow her to contact me (including the postal address that they said was allowable)
3) anastasia saw the critical comments and answered the message themselves and never even sent it to the woman
4) the woman in the pictures has never responded at all and all of the responses are directly from anastasia
There are real & honest women on the site. But guys do not have a tuned in enough sense to know how is legit.
There are few reasons to use this site if you understand the ins and outs (mostly outs from your wallet) to use 1st International/Anastasia.
There are real & honest women on the site. But guys do not have a tuned in enough sense to know how is legit.
There are few reasons to use this site if you understand the ins and outs (mostly outs from your wallet) to use 1st International/Anastasia.
And when you do get her personal info and fly over the soaking really begins. Many times the woman just wants you to take her shopping or pay for her cell phone bill, or go out on your dime. The woman may not be a bad person but has been conditioned to guys spending vast amounts of money on her. There are men who fly over with 10k dollar fur coats (for multiple women). The women who want to can travel all over the world and are pampered in luxury. Is this what you want to compete with or get yourself into?
It can be done. But do yourselves a favor guys and go another route.
There are so many other ways to find her.
Hello AvHdB.
I ask: "There is no form of accountability to the company 1st International?"
Saludos.
I do not like giving advice.
I prefer to have my experiences and each draw their conclusions.
Every morning I wake up I wonder, "What new thing I learn today?"
Saludos.
As an escort it's the worst "service" one can hire in that brothel. Lots of rip off and no sex included.
As an escort it's the worst "service" one can hire in that brothel. Lots of rip off and no sex included.
Such analogy is inappropriate.
As an escort it's the worst "service" one can hire in that brothel. Lots of rip off and no sex included.
Such analogy is inappropriate.
Such an exploitation of humans basic needs to another's self beneficial is inappropriate.
As an escort it's the worst "service" one can hire in that brothel. Lots of rip off and no sex included.
Such analogy is inappropriate.
Such an exploitation of humans basic needs to another's self beneficial is inappropriate.
:o Since when dreaming about marrying and/or sleeping withFSUgirls become humans basic needs?
As an escort it's the worst "service" one can hire in that brothel. Lots of rip off and no sex included.
Such analogy is inappropriate.
Such an exploitation of humans basic needs to another's self beneficial is inappropriate.
:o Since when dreaming about marrying and/or sleeping withFSUgirls become humans basic needs?
Sharon, men have option to fulfill thosebasic needsdreams in their own country, still they choose to look elsewhere and many amongst them make that choice because they would like to exploit youth and beauty of the girls on financial disparity. Not all guys like that but also not all women are scammers.
Oh yea MissA, I meant specifically to the gal (and her kind) that John saw in shopping center fleeced some sucker(s) from his hard earn :money:. Maybe that/those poor guy(s) had hope to have her close... closeness to the girl's body is a male basic need/dream...whatever the country it takes place. It may be the wrong reason to go overseas for that purpose, but it does happen, mainly because they don't have it at home. But is it justify to rip them off like that? What is their crime?
Oh yea MissA, I meant specifically to the gal (and her kind) that John saw in shopping center fleeced some sucker(s) from his hard earn :money:. Maybe that/those poor guy(s) had hope to have her close... closeness to the girl's body is a male basic need/dream...whatever the country it takes place. It may be the wrong reason to go overseas for that purpose, but it does happen, mainly because they don't have it at home. But is it justify to rip them off like that? What is their crime?
missAmeno,
It was stated that two victims were seen plucked within a few days of each other.
Sure sounds like a prodater at work to me,in business with a certain shop. (:)
missAmeno,
It was stated that two victims were seen plucked within a few days of each other.
Sure sounds like a prodater at work to me,in business with a certain shop. (:)
My 4yo confident he seen a monster under his bed too.
My 4yo confident he seen a monster under his bed too.
Did the monster speak Welsh? Can't blame the kid for being frightened!!!
Did the monster speak Welsh? Can't blame the kid for being frightened!!!
What does Welsh sound like with a Russian accent?
Edit: one more question ;D : why on earth prodater have to work with a certain shop? Why she just dont return goods and take money in full?
My wife worked for a large agency
My wife worked for a large agency
Can you address that agency, so new comers and potential victims will avoid them?
My wife worked for a large agency
Can you address that agency, so new comers and potential victims will avoid them?
I never asked my wife the name of the agency but will find out. It is one of the largest in Odessa that feeds into Anastasia. I do not think they even have a website. They just make profit from the affiliate revenue.
I learned quite a bit about agencies while dating my wife. She would tell me about how things worked and the outcomes and reasons for failures of dates between men and women. It was interesting to hear the other side of the story at the time.
I learned quite a bit about agencies while dating my wife. She would tell me about how things worked and the outcomes and reasons for failures of dates between men and women. It was interesting to hear the other side of the story at the time.
While I am not sure it will help the helpless it would be interesting to hear your wife's observations as well as opinions.
Perhaps you can convince her to post them. Maybe with a request of no comment just her observations of foreign guys in Odessa.
Edit: one more question ;D : why on earth prodater have to work with a certain shop? Why she just dont return goods and take money in full?
Maybe she wanted to keep the clothes? :)
My wife worked for a large agency and although never took part of this type of thing has many stories about her coworkers. Not sure this was the case mentioned above as we do not have proof but it is a very common thing. Couple examples below -
When men would send the women perfume they were obligated to show pictures receiving the gift.
The agency would always have an empty box of the perfume on hand for the photo. The agency and girl would split the inflated cost of the perfume and walk away with cash.
Flowers. Girls would just walk over to florist and snap a photo holding a bunch of roses and money would go into their pocket instead. Or one bunch of roses would work for 20 women at the agency that day.
Clothing. Women have deals with certain stores and receive kickbacks or return the dresses to split the profit with the store owner.
Restaurants give kickbacks and incentives to the women and terps for using their establishments.
As an escort it's the worst "service" one can hire in that brothel. Lots of rip off and no sex included.
....I meant specifically to the gal (and her kind) that John saw in shopping center ...
As an escort it's the worst "service" one can hire in that brothel. Lots of rip off and no sex included.....I meant specifically to the gal (and her kind) that John saw in shopping center ...
And "that brothel" been reference to what? A women's clothing store? Anastasia? Ukraine? :-\
Sasha, of course many agencies and many girls scamming guys. But what guys expect? Warm welcome and gratitude for their attention?I think guys (and women) should at least have a fighting chance at finding someone. A little honesty from all sides would be nice.
95% of guys never get on the plane. Are they any better from girls scammers? Those guys scamm girls time and emotions. How many from them dont have intentions to visit FSU in 1st place? How many from them married?So many unique situations. A guy who loses his parents to cancer and can no longer afford to visit a woman in my book is better than a woman who is married and making money chatting while waiting for him to come and buy her $600 shoes. A man who is married (and there are MANY of these) getting his rocks off while wasting an honest woman's time is obviously in the wrong. There are many people who lose in this endeavor unfortunately.
Now those 5% who get on plane still include sex tourists, "damaged" and all sorts of controlling freaks. Lets assume its 50/50. So its 2.5% of decent guys with serious intentions who go to FSU to find a wife.
Anyone would like to give guesstimate how many decent honest FSU girls with serious intentions looking for western husband? I doubt its 2.5% or even close to such low percent. So in the big picture who is getting scammed more?
As of shops/restaurants ... its almost like loyalty cards in western countries ... just instead of discounts and points you get cash rewards ;D
Western style with FSU interpretation :biggrin:
As an escort it's the worst "service" one can hire in that brothel. Lots of rip off and no sex included.....I meant specifically to the gal (and her kind) that John saw in shopping center ...
And "that brothel" been reference to what? A women's clothing store? Anastasia? Ukraine? :-\
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=13031.msg187253#msg187253
As an escort it's the worst "service" one can hire in that brothel. Lots of rip off and no sex included.....I meant specifically to the gal (and her kind) that John saw in shopping center ...
And "that brothel" been reference to what? A women's clothing store? Anastasia? Ukraine? :-\
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=13031.msg187253#msg187253
Oh you are a sex-tourist. Sorry sometimes I am too slow to understand hints, now its more clear. tiphat
From those (5%) guys who write with gals and get on plane, if one writes with more than one (WMVO, WMVM approach) he won't visit all of his correspondents. Most of them will be "dumped" (and vice verse - will dump him) and that adds to the statistic of "not visit". And those who visit and meet one or more girls - what are their chances of success?
And those who visit and meet one or more girls - what are their chances of success?
And those who visit and meet one or more girls - what are their chances of success?
I don't think there is a way to determine these numbers. My wife is not aware of any successful stories from any of the meetings where she acted as an interpreter while we dated. I would guess the number of meetings to be well over a hundred in about two years. Keep in mind this is one of Anastasia's affiliates so the outcome for guys using other services may have been better.
Several women at her agency did find guys, and some of those women were actually the interpreters.
She has friends and we have met couples here in the US who have been successful.
Sometimes it seems the interpreters is more desirable species than the potential spouse they come to translate for.
You should tell your wife that her knowledge can save the man kind ;)
Sometimes it seems the interpreters is more desirable species than the potential spouse they come to translate for.
You should tell your wife that her knowledge can save the man kind ;)
There is an ongoing joke in the agency that the interpreters have the most success in finding a partner.
Not sure about saving mankind, but if we can help just a couple people by sharing our experience it is well worth it.
Sometimes it seems the interpreters is more desirable species than the potential spouse they come to translate for.
You should tell your wife that her knowledge can save the man kind ;)
There is an ongoing joke in the agency that the interpreters have the most success in finding a partner.
Not sure about saving mankind, but if we can help just a couple people by sharing our experience it is well worth it.
Completely understandable; there is a huge advantage to being able to communicate with a guy directly. That's why Elena's Models gives girls so many points for being able to speak various other languages in its formula for predicting a girl's success in this search (see TooTallBill's thread "do you ever wonder what they tell the girls").
Oh, I should also add this. One of the women that I received an automated response from that intrigued me enough to write back despite my not finding her initially on vk or anywhere else apparently (allegedly) wrote back to me. I know not what the letter says as it is one of the notifications I received after I closed the account. However, since I received the reply I was curious and searched one more time using details from her first letter and found multiple tidbits about her online....
... including her vk.com account which shows she was married more than 2 months ago!
Gotta love it!
... and there still appears to be an account although I am unable to actually log into it.
... and there still appears to be an account although I am unable to actually log into it.
I would not waste my time with a formula or trying to navigate the ins and outs of Anastasia guys.
If it is too good to be true it probably is. I asked my wife (who worked there) what the best advice for a guy looking on Anastasia is. Her advice was "don't".
If you are a gambler, have money to spend, and want a challenge then go for it. If you can fly into a city like Miami, Paris, or LA and walk into a nightclub (after shoving a horseshoe up your arse) while speaking very little of the language and chat up a similar women (who are married or has a boyfriend) then go for it and make sure you write an exciting trip report.
One starts to wonder how many of active girls accounts should have been closed after girls requested closing/deleting their accounts. And what for they get lebeled as scammers by some WM if they did nothing wrong to anyone.
Some girls who just start to look for international dating could easily come Anastasia.com and open account without much knowledge/experience about it. After time realising its not what they want asking close account and move to different site. Anastasia uses abandoned accounts and those accounts that should be closed, girls get blamed.
If it is too good to be true it probably is.
I asked my wife (who worked there) what the best advice for a guy looking on Anastasia is. Her advice was "don't".
If you are a gambler, have money to spend, and want a challenge then go for it. If you can fly into a city like Miami, Paris, or LA and walk into a nightclub (after shoving a horseshoe up your arse) while speaking very little of the language and chat up a similar women (who are married or has a boyfriend) then go for it and make sure you write an exciting trip report.
Quote... and there still appears to be an account although I am unable to actually log into it.
Why did you request to close your account when you haven't close it in your mind?
Quote... and there still appears to be an account although I am unable to actually log into it.
Why did you request to close your account when you haven't close it in your mind?
I only tried to log into it to figure out why in the hell it still 'seems' to exist (i.e. I'm still receiving anastasia notices). If I'm going to file an FTC report, or other harassment charges, I prefer to know as much as possible about how little they have adhered to my direct demand to be removed. (I am a web developer for a living. I can surmise various traits that will tell me just what has or hasn't been done)
I only tried to log into it to figure out why in the hell it still 'seems' to exist (i.e. I'm still receiving anastasia notices). If I'm going to file an FTC report, or other harassment charges, I prefer to know as much as possible about how little they have adhered to my direct demand to be removed. (I am a web developer for a living. I can surmise various traits that will tell me just what has or hasn't been done)
Quote... and there still appears to be an account although I am unable to actually log into it.
Why did you request to close your account when you haven't close it in your mind?
I only tried to log into it to figure out why in the hell it still 'seems' to exist (i.e. I'm still receiving anastasia notices). If I'm going to file an FTC report, or other harassment charges, I prefer to know as much as possible about how little they have adhered to my direct demand to be removed. (I am a web developer for a living. I can surmise various traits that will tell me just what has or hasn't been done)
But you are just curious about the content of the letter, aren't you?
What do you care anyway, if you don't do purchases you don't lose money :nod:
(If you don't want the notices you can direct them to the spam)
I only tried to log into it to figure out why in the hell it still 'seems' to exist (i.e. I'm still receiving anastasia notices). If I'm going to file an FTC report, or other harassment charges, I prefer to know as much as possible about how little they have adhered to my direct demand to be removed. (I am a web developer for a living. I can surmise various traits that will tell me just what has or hasn't been done)
It has probably been removed. I cancelled mine and my wife verified the profile had been deleted.
As far as charges, or reporting them, probably not worth your time. Spend your efforts trying to find someone elsewhere instead.
Anastasia is setup with a US office and one located in Russia. These are legally independent from what I was told. Anastasia itself does not really break the laws (that I am aware) or play a part of the fraud directly. It is the agencies. Anastasia is obviously aware and looks the other way. Agencies can just fold their operation like spammers and signup again under a different name if there are fines or they get caught breaking the rules.
I only tried to log into it to figure out why in the hell it still 'seems' to exist (i.e. I'm still receiving anastasia notices). If I'm going to file an FTC report, or other harassment charges, I prefer to know as much as possible about how little they have adhered to my direct demand to be removed. (I am a web developer for a living. I can surmise various traits that will tell me just what has or hasn't been done)
It has probably been removed. I cancelled mine and my wife verified the profile had been deleted.
As far as charges, or reporting them, probably not worth your time. Spend your efforts trying to find someone elsewhere instead.
Anastasia is setup with a US office and one located in Russia. These are legally independent from what I was told. Anastasia itself does not really break the laws (that I am aware) or play a part of the fraud directly. It is the agencies. Anastasia is obviously aware and looks the other way. Agencies can just fold their operation like spammers and signup again under a different name if there are fines or they get caught breaking the rules.
Sascha, I wish to disagree if the attorney general of a state is looking for a semi-soft target and has little to do than I suspect he has a victim.
The more complaints that he can confirm helps to build a case based on attempt of deception. AvHdB
My wife deleted her profile. Several months after she arrived here in the US we noticed she was online and ready to chat on one of Anastasia's sister sites :)
My wife deleted her profile. Several months after she arrived here in the US we noticed she was online and ready to chat on one of Anastasia's sister sites :)
At this moment some blocks might have been chatting with your wife :-X
My wife deleted her profile. Several months after she arrived here in the US we noticed she was online and ready to chat on one of Anastasia's sister sites :)
At this moment some blocks might have been chatting with your wife :-X
At this moment my wife was laying naked in my bed fast asleep while some guy chatted with her overweight male boss :)
My wife deleted her profile. Several months after she arrived here in the US we noticed she was online and ready to chat on one of Anastasia's sister sites :)
At this moment some blocks might have been chatting with your wife :-X
At this moment my wife was laying naked in my bed fast asleep while some guy chatted with her overweight male boss :)
Sorry the Dutch side of me but I have to ask; do you think he got off?
Oh, I should also add this. One of the women that I received an automated response from that intrigued me enough to write back despite my not finding her initially on vk or anywhere else apparently (allegedly) wrote back to me. I know not what the letter says as it is one of the notifications I received after I closed the account. However, since I received the reply I was curious and searched one more time using details from her first letter and found multiple tidbits about her online....
... including her vk.com account which shows she was married more than 2 months ago!
Gotta love it!
One starts to wonder how many of active girls accounts should have been closed after girls requested closing/deleting their accounts. And what for they get lebeled as scammers by some WM if they did nothing wrong to anyone.
Some girls who just start to look for international dating could easily come Anastasia.com and open account without much knowledge/experience about it. After time realising its not what they want asking close account and move to different site. Anastasia uses abandoned accounts and those accounts that should be closed, girls get blamed.... and there still appears to be an account although I am unable to actually log into it.
Your account could be used too :evilgrin0002:
My wife deleted her profile. Several months after she arrived here in the US we noticed she was online and ready to chat on one of Anastasia's sister sites :)
At this moment some blocks might have been chatting with your wife :-X
At this moment my wife was laying naked in my bed fast asleep while some guy chatted with her overweight male boss :)
Oh, I should also add this. One of the women that I received an automated response from that intrigued me enough to write back despite my not finding her initially on vk or anywhere else apparently (allegedly) wrote back to me. I know not what the letter says as it is one of the notifications I received after I closed the account. However, since I received the reply I was curious and searched one more time using details from her first letter and found multiple tidbits about her online....
... including her vk.com account which shows she was married more than 2 months ago!
Gotta love it!
One starts to wonder how many of active girls accounts should have been closed after girls requested closing/deleting their accounts. And what for they get lebeled as scammers by some WM if they did nothing wrong to anyone.
Some girls who just start to look for international dating could easily come Anastasia.com and open account without much knowledge/experience about it. After time realising its not what they want asking close account and move to different site. Anastasia uses abandoned accounts and those accounts that should be closed, girls get blamed.... and there still appears to be an account although I am unable to actually log into it.
Your account could be used too :evilgrin0002:
Good post missA and very correct. I have kept saying that conclusions should not be jumped to about girls.Once they sign up it can take a lot to get a profile deleted-- and--even if it is they can reappear on another site without knowledge of original girl.
My goodness. Sixteen pages of the same thing over and over. (:)
A la verdad es que hay gente que le gusta batir la mierda.
quote]
JayH
I can paste the below on every post you have made but the mods will not be amused.
In any event I was mistaken.Some where I have to apologize for indicating that JayH insulted Vinny - he did not my excuses to the J man.
I can say sorry you can not even accept a simple apology says allot about some.
I recently just turned 33.
This shows that the shit has to remove.
A December, I informed ANASTASIA following:
The profiles 88244, 89544, 99222, 104861, 104871, 110081, 137923 and 166187 are handled by the same person.
Rasmus, Welcome to RUA and it seems you spoke to a real scammer via Anastasia congratulations!
Sorry perhaps you could explain you sensed who she was , you surprised her at work, you spent ten minutes with holding details and she she logged off ~ you disguised. Perhaps she was disgusted.
What does it prove? RUA tries to alert members that Anastasia and the mirror sites are often filled with women who are dishonest in one form or the other. Until you decide to travel to the former Soviet Union to meet women and even than there is no guarantee are you not just waiting your money?
Rasmus, Welcome to RUA and it seems you spoke to a real scammer via Anastasia congratulations!
Sorry perhaps you could explain you sensed who she was , you surprised her at work, you spent ten minutes with holding details and she she logged off ~ you disguised. Perhaps she was disgusted.
What does it prove? RUA tries to alert members that Anastasia and the mirror sites are often filled with women who are dishonest in one form or the other. Until you decide to travel to the former Soviet Union to meet women and even than there is no guarantee are you not just waiting your money?
Thank U for the introduction, AvHdB!
After last night talk i just believe that most of the profiles (without cam chat) are operated by other persons and it's just a rule at Anastasia! As i told i know the real girl from "her" profile, i keep in touch with her for a year, i saw her numerous times on video chat, and i know who she is... and that wasn't that girl yesterday on the chat. I could notice that by the way she was replying, constructing sentences... if u spent hours without someone on chat u pay attention to the smallest details. I do believe actual girl has no idea about her visitors on the chat, same with letters, it's just a way to keep dis-comunication between customers and girls, both ways.... and it was me logging off when she couldn't say my real name... i just saw she was playing on time, without giving me anything real.
If it's true, it has to be extremely sophisticated and advance video software.... i mean people are not dumb, there are many nuances, which can suggest something wrong with the video feed, such as overtime behaviour, u can just simply tell the girl to smile or wave her hand.... and if guy/or any other person operating, can provide this in real time without any signs of on-screen glitch... well, then hats off to programmers from Anastasia.
If it's true, it has to be extremely sophisticated and advance video software.... i mean people are not dumb, there are many nuances, which can suggest something wrong with the video feed, such as overtime behaviour, u can just simply tell the girl to smile or wave her hand.... and if guy/or any other person operating, can provide this in real time without any signs of on-screen glitch... well, then hats off to programmers from Anastasia.
Believe me it is true. I already knew the details and without going into the details why and how--something did go wrong with the system and we actually got the guy on camera himself--it was pretty funny--if it had not been so serious.
You would be amazed at the excuses made not to wave or do anything to confirm-- and you are spending money to have the argument. You also need to take into account that the huge majority of users are never going to have meeting and the video chat is it .
Last point-- some of the operaters are very skilled chatters and conversationalists.Some have good memories and good notes.They are also very motivated to earn a dollar.Put all that together and you start to get it.
Mr. JAYH ,to your question is similar to that made me Mr. Gregory 24 times.
I'm sure you do not have the same intentions.
But I ask my apologies if I do not answer.
Oh, I should also add this. One of the women that I received an automated response from that intrigued me enough to write back despite my not finding her initially on vk or anywhere else apparently (allegedly) wrote back to me. I know not what the letter says as it is one of the notifications I received after I closed the account. However, since I received the reply I was curious and searched one more time using details from her first letter and found multiple tidbits about her online....
... including her vk.com account which shows she was married more than 2 months ago!
Gotta love it!
One starts to wonder how many of active girls accounts should have been closed after girls requested closing/deleting their accounts. And what for they get lebeled as scammers by some WM if they did nothing wrong to anyone.
Some girls who just start to look for international dating could easily come Anastasia.com and open account without much knowledge/experience about it. After time realising its not what they want asking close account and move to different site. Anastasia uses abandoned accounts and those accounts that should be closed, girls get blamed.... and there still appears to be an account although I am unable to actually log into it.
Your account could be used too :evilgrin0002:
Also, for chuckles (I mentioned this earlier also) I sent friend requests on both VK and facebook to any profiles I found from 'any' of the accounts that allegedly sent me messages. I included a very generic, brief message saying only "I no longer use anastasia - if you want to still talk, you can contact me here" - there was close to a dozen, most had active wall content. Not one accept.
I do believe those girls didnt have any clue U were writing to "them" on Anastasia since most of the profiles (if not all) are operated by agency workers, other girls, whatever... so when an anonymous foreigner is sudenly writing to them on their private profiles, they are dumbfound. It's hard to say if they are doing something bad, they are part of the scam, but just a lil piece of the giant machine.
This requires selecting those girls who are recent addition. No more than one month. The courage to open a letter should never be greater than 2 dollars. This means written with 6 men at a time.
It can be seen that the vast majority, initially amounting to $ 5 per letter.
Ie written start with 18 men at once.
This is a slogan that the agency imposes.
This requires selecting those girls who are recent addition. No more than one month. The courage to open a letter should never be greater than 2 dollars. This means written with 6 men at a time.
It can be seen that the vast majority, initially amounting to $ 5 per letter.
Ie written start with 18 men at once.
This is a slogan that the agency imposes.
I'm sorry John, but i dont fully understand this part, my english is propably not that good as i assume it is. :)
... from what i've experienced all letters (opening and sending) is 10 creds per letter. Is this price change-able?
I was aware of the "promotion"... i just didnt know that letters are priced differently, i thought that price is flat - 10creds. Anyway, i wonder if this 2nd month of free corespondance is a sign of bad business for Anastasia... i hope if they wont be stopped with legals methods, at least they will have to call it a day, because of the declining numbers of paying customers.
In ANASTASIA are opening fewer profiles than two years ago.
In relation to the total, the percentage of profiles of women has decreased.
However, turnover has increased.
For that reason and others, they give various instructions to the girls.
- They must maintain communication with a minimum of 18 men. Corresponds to a credit value of 5.
98.6% of turnover corresponds to the profiles from 5 to 20 credits. A profile of 20 credits communicates with 78 men. This is a record!They fight to the death to avoid deleting a profile.
Before deleting them, leave them some time without activity.
And it only erased when they analyze the letters received by that profile during
the downtime.
That's when they decide whether it is advisable to eliminate the "Running Scared".
Therefore, write letters in contact agencies is a privilege.
Hi Tom Cat,
How to get the information is unimportant.
If you are against, I think you have much to contribute so that others know better modus operandi of this company.
How the hell did Dmitry Kovtun get his snout mixed up with Anastasia and is this the same Dmitri Kovtun who got famous back in 2006 for mixing radiation cocktails? (I may have just drank my last safe cup of coffee :chuckle:)
I don't believe there is any connection between the two Dmitri's Brass.
Has there ever been a successful lawsuit filed against Anastasia, Shakey?
Not to my knowledge Brass.
Back in the early 2000's I know one guy who tried to file a class-action suit against Anastasia on behalf of any and all men who felt the company swindled them. He had obtained about 75 hundred dissatisfied customer complaints as his evidence package. I testified as a witness at the class action hearing. He was successful in getting the class certified. After court, in his excitement of winning that first step, he told me he didn't really care about the other men and was only filing this suit to get Anastasia to pay him $100,000 to go away.
I got notice some months later that the case had been dismissed and I never heard from him or the court again so I assume he was successful.
I know in the "early days", many men were successful in getting "chargebacks" from their credit cards; claiming they never received the services they paid for. This really pissed Elena off to no end. She always figured once she had the customer's money it was hers whether she provided satisfactory service or not; and she would throw public fits about how those that did get these chargebacks were now basically stealing money from her. Predictably perverted Russian perspective on the whole thing if you ask me.
I understand she has since hired lawyers and drafted her contracts in such a way to make successfully obtaining a chargeback from a credit card virtually impossible.
On the other hand we give a generous percentage of 5% here at the forum of men who actually get on a plane and somewhere around 2-3% of men who actually finish the race (marriage).
You gotta ask yourself, if say even 10% of the clients catch on after getting their feet wet or are unsuccessful, "Hey, this isn't for me how do I get my money back?" then figure out a charge back on the generic excuse - unsatisfactory service or failure to deliver same - I could see a business owner getting a little peeved.
This isn't to say a customer shouldn't be able to get his money back for unsatisfactory service, however, those that enter into a contract with a marriage broker should probably be aware before they plug in the plastic that this endeavor isn't the same as buying a collectible on ebay (imo).
OK Brass, do these guys deserve a refund?
Back in the days when "snail mail" was the only way to communicate with the FSU, Anastasia advertised an "Express Letter Service" to their male customers. They claimed they send a DAILY DHL package to their Moscow office and for a small fee ($4) they would include your letter in that package. Once in Moscow their staff would put it in a Russian-size envelope, readdress the letter in Cyrillic and mail it with Russian stamps. They claimed this would speed delivery by 2-3 weeks and would increase reliability of delivery since it would not look like a foreign letter and was less likely to be riffled by curious postal workers looking to augment their pitiful government salary.
Sounds like a great deal, right? Literally THOUSANDS of letters came in requesting this service.
What actually happened? There was no DAILY DHL package. Somebody slapped a $0.50 international airmail stamp on them and dropped them in the mailbox at the Winchester post office. Saw it with my own eyes. Nice 700% profit margin.
The basic dishonesty at the core of the owners of this agency came through with every transaction they processed.
Shakey, I'm simply going to state that if these people (the original owners then the second husband) were perpetrating such silly, amaturish hijinks that could be so easily uncovered and traced (not to mention the original envelope with the affixed air mail stamp and postal station identifier being recoverable as evidence) these people wouldn't be in business now. Anastasia would be a long gone or maybe remembered as a footnote to the dumbest, most traceble scam in the history of the MOB industry.
Yet, this isn't the case, Dan Sykes, not running, not hiding, not ducking and dodging the civil suits and law...he's buying heritage buildings at public auctions:
Why isn't any of this stuff sticking?
Shakey, I'm simply going to state that if these people (the original owners then the second husband) were perpetrating such silly, amateurish hijinks's that could be so easily uncovered and traced (not to mention the original envelope with the affixed air mail stamp and postal station identifier being recoverable as evidence) these people wouldn't be in business now. Anastasia would be long gone or maybe remembered as a footnote to the dumbest, most traceable scam in the history of the MOB industry.
My wife tells me Anastasia is set up so there are two independent corps. The US based corp does nothing technically illegal these days and all blame is put on the Moscow corp. I am not versed in international law but would think it hard to sue a Russian company from overseas. Maybe shakespear has more detailed info as he mentioned he worked for them previously.
It is similar to the relationship between advertisers and ad agencies. Anastasia is aware that there is fraud from the agencies and looks the other way. Anastasia will even shut down agencies for fraud and abuse if someone catches them. They have an incentive to do so in fact as they can then fine the agency and keep commissions for itself making even more money. The agency will just reapply or reopen under a different name and is up and running again right away. This can go on for years and years without repercussions in marketing even here in the US.
My wife explained all this to me as she worked for an agency. Fraud was rampant. At one point Anastasia withheld 40k from the agency when they were caught red handed. Blame is shifted to those evil agencies in Ukraine, Anastasia pockets 40k and the agency owner just starts over.
Let's not mix words. Basically you're calling me a liar.
I'm telling you I saw it with my own eyes. I saw them do it HUNDREDS of TIMES. On occasion, I actually deposited the mail in the post box at the Winchester KY post office with my own two hands.
They DIDN'T care if they were discovered. Between them and European Connections they were the only game in town. They were getting hundreds of inquiries from new male customers every week. Lose one, gain 12 more. Screw the new 12, get 144 more. It was a numbers game that involved getting as much money as possible as quickly as possible from each customer. It's the same game they're playing now.
Let's talk about their Gentleman's Catalog. They would charge men $100 to be included in a Gentleman's Catalog that would be distributed to women who attended their socials or were customers of their FSU feeder agencies. The men would have a chance to write a profile and submit a picture. The women would write to Anastasia's Winchester Office with the man's catalog number on the outside of the envelope and Anastasia was supposed to forward the letters on to the man.
Well, most of those reply letters ended up in the trash can. I saw both Elena and David Besuden throw handfulls of them there. Every once in a while a secretary who felt guilty would fish them out and send them on to the gentleman, but not often. When I asked Elena about this she replied, "Why waste the postage? We already have their money".
Something else I witnessed with my own two eyes. Gonna call me a liar again?
It always seems strange to me when someone who has actually worked for Anastasia comes forward and tells people what actually goes on there now,or in the past,that people who have never worked for the company express doubts about what they're being told.
Large companies that are corrupt do survive and prosper,and don't get closed down,because that is the way of the world.
One only has to look at some of the large banks.
Crime pays in the modern world.
But they're not two independent 'corps'. The Moscow office is part of the company not a separate corporate entity so this doesn't hold water.
You do realize how preposterous this reads, don't you? :chuckle: Do you believe a feeder or affiliate agency would just stand for being 'shut down' or Anastasia keeping commissions? How long do you think Anastasia would have any affiliate agencies dealing with them for?
Well, let's run with this scenario for a moment then; How is Anastasia to blame if they're withholding funds from an affiliate who is caught 'red handed' being fraudulant. Seems like good business practice to withhold paying a company you've found being fraudulant, doesn't it?
Anastasia is not a government or police agency. They can't stop someone from restarting or going back into the same business if that person so chooses.
Sasha, these stories abound on the internet as well. They're urban legends. Half truths boiled in a large pot of gossip,sprinkled with a dash of internet crazy and served up on a big plate of forum debate with a side of disgrunteled employee or client.
It's like Shakey's class action lawsuit. I've no doubt he was there and testified but class action lawsuits don't mysteriously go away after a go ahead by a court. They're either dropped or settled.
Do you think that Anastasia's lawyers would be so stupid as to release 7500 some odd petitionors to file their own lawsuits or resubmit for another class action because they paid out just one guy who publically admitted he was doing it to blackmail Anastasia Inc.? Of course not. A court appointed litigation settlement administrator would have ensured that the persons who filed claims were contacted and the entitlement (their portion of the settlement) would have been transferred. Probably with some sort of legal document releasing the respondent from any further civil exposure.
Well, let's run with this scenario for a moment then; How is Anastasia to blame if they're withholding funds from an affiliate who is caught 'red handed' being fraudulant. Seems like good business practice to withhold paying a company you've found being fraudulant, doesn't it?
This happens all the time in marketing and the affiliate world. Anastasia has a monopoly and has positioned themselves very well. I am sure they have the largest payouts. Would you rather make dollars or pennies per letter? If they shut you down do you go to the competition and make 5% of your previous income or sign up under a new name and make the big money again? You are arguing with someone who is very familiar with online marketing and is married to a woman that worked for an agency. She was offered manager position at a new branch in Kiev. But what do I know? ;)
Huh? Not sure you understood my post. Anastasia withholds commissions if the TOS if broken.
Of course the agency can go back into business. And what do you do if you are that agency? Do you send random letters do idiots overseas or do you signup with a company who controls the adwords, glossy pics, and brand recognition all over the web?
Urban legends? HAHAHHA. Did you not read my post? My wife worked for an agency that fed into Anastasia for five years. She was offered a job as manager of a new location in Kiev. She was part reason the agency lost 40k. She and all the girls lost two months salary. She feared for her life. People do not walk away from 40k in Ukraine easily. I don't want to keep arguing but think man, think.
Sure, I suppose it is good practice for Anastasia to keep the funds if there is fraud involved. They sure as hell do not return them to the customers though. Anastasia knows what is occurring. The top reps fly to Odessa and buddy up with the agency owners at events. They know these girls are married. They know many girls personally from parties, etc. "Can you ask so and so to participate in the bikini competition?"
Would someone show me where Anastasia has shut down or even cut loose a feeder or affiliate agency for fraud or any nefarious activity then rehired them?
Yes, I got it. My question was how does Anastasia end up being the bad guy if they've taken action like shutdown or stopped paying an affiliate/feeder for violation of their TOS? I note in your post above you've answered this.
But again, how does your wife's actions or (I'm assuming) illegal activities at this agency equate to Anastasia being the bad guy? Was Anastasia part and parcel of the illegal activities or did they hold back the 40K as a result of the illegal activities?
Who or what made your wife fear for her life - Was it Anastasia Inc or something else?
I dont have the letter from Anastasia, but my wife does. I don't really want to ask her to forward it to me and stir things up again but trust me it happened. The agency owner lost the 40k.
He was only fined in this case and not shut down. He has several companies setup to spread the risks. He loses one every now and then. Anastasia may not knowingly payout a rogue agency that signs up again but it happens. In my wife's agencies case I am sure it is overlooked. They are very large and have gorgeous women.
Anastasia held back the funds because the agency owner in this case was defrauding people. He was chatting with men while signed into different women's accounts. He screwed up a setting in the control panel and was caught. My wife's profile was one of the women.
Anastasia is aware of what is occurring. Like I said in my post above they know certain women, etc. They are in the middle of a menage a trois screwing both ends. They play the game and screw the agencies and terps. A letter has a small error and they fine the woman $10 when she is making half that translating it.
She feared the owner and his buddies. She is Ukrainian and tough as nails though.
By the way, her profile is up once again on one of the sister sites. Anastasia must have just missed that one, huh?
No, I wouldn't bother, I believe you that the letter exists, anyways. However, I think you've hit the nail on the head with this aspect of the argument in that they (being Anastasia) may not knowingly pay out a rogue agency that signs up again. I suspect this is accurate, it makes no sense to do otherwise.
Have you or your wife contacted the agency to have it removed?
Well at least we've clarified it wasn't Anastasia Inc. or their actions she feared.
Sasha, one day (not now of course) when your wife is with you permenantly and safely settled I hope you can share the name of that agency with us. I'd like to know who it is. :)
Brass
It really is a great business idea if you don't mind screwing people.
I have seen smaller operations in Latin America using the same model. I could not do it.
We have not. I had it removed from the site several times already. We cannot keep playing whack-a mole.
My wife has been here in the US since late last year. :)
A forum member asked me to share the name of the agency upthread. I asked my wife and she gave me a curious look. Women from the FSU do not like private details discussed...
She mentioned he had several companies. I will find a way to weasel it out.
I just asked her. She says two of the companies are called Dream Brides and Best Brides in Odessa.
Neither has a web page. They are just local companies setup in order for Anastasia to cut checks.
I showed her the profile of herself and she freaked out. I wonder what my wife will tell me from Odessa?
We already had her profile removed twice. It keeps popping up. Strange huh? Maybe just a sloppy vetting process on Anastasia's end. We cannot fault them if they are running a million dollar business and cannot keep unavailable women out of the database. Simple mistake I am sure. :)
This is what you are up against if you use them guys.
And one more to avoid. It is either owned by her former employer or is one of many Anastasia sites.
edenlady.com
OK, let's not mince words. I wasn't calling you a liar but I will call you a low life scum if you were complicit in these acts as you've related them.
And at the end of the day, why didn't you do something about it then or it's back to my original point why was this never brought forward by clients or staff to the proper authorities/agencies at the time?
Well not quite, Sasha. Both DreamBrides and Best Brides are found on the internet. Granted Best Brides is found on a website amongst a number of other affiliated agencies called 'Letter Order Brides' but it's there (11th company on the list) with an address and phone number...
http://www.letter-order-brides.com/our_affiliates.html
http://www.dreambrides.net/
Again, posting an agency website and advising it needs to be avoided isn't good enough. You need to substantiate the warning, Sasha.
So far a lot of what you've posted is not accurate or it's subjective. In otherwords you just plain don't like Anatasia Inc. It's OK to post an opinion but it's not substantive information.
At the time all this was supposed to be going on it was nowhere near the size it is now. More like a mom and pop small business.
Brass
But again, how does your wife's actions or (I'm assuming) illegal activities at this agency equate to Anastasia being the bad guy? Was Anastasia part and parcel of the illegal activities or did they hold back the 40K as a result of the illegal activities?
Who or what made your wife fear for her life - Was it Anastasia Inc or something else?
But again, how does your wife's actions or (I'm assuming) illegal activities at this agency equate to Anastasia being the bad guy? Was Anastasia part and parcel of the illegal activities or did they hold back the 40K as a result of the illegal activities?I'm not dealing in firsthand knowledge about Anastasia on this topic, but I have been told by several different local agency owners that often times the large international agencies hold their subordinate agencies hostage by their commission checks. The payment is always made several weeks or even months in arrears. It is not an uncommon event for the subordinate agency to get paid much less than what they expected. What do you do? Go to the police? Heck no. You call the person up and try to find out what is going on. Once he tells you, how you were paid and that's all the money you are going to receive, you have two choices, accept it and continue to make money or refuse and get zero money.
Who or what made your wife fear for her life - Was it Anastasia Inc or something else?
OK, let's not mince words. I wasn't calling you a liar but I will call you a low life scum if you were complicit in these acts as you've related them.
And at the end of the day, why didn't you do something about it then or it's back to my original point why was this never brought forward by clients or staff to the proper authorities/agencies at the time?
Yes, I guess you could say I was complicit by association. But I did do something. I quit and became one of the most vocal and outspoken opponents of Anastasia on the internet.
Report to government authorities? Winchester KY is a pretty small town. At the time Anastasia was one of the three biggest sources of tax revenue for the city. They had hired all the right attorneys and made friends with all the right people.
Check the archives of some of the old groups on yahoo or the old St John's group. Elena Besuden threatened to sue me dozens of times because as she claimed, I was spreading lies. Lawsuit never came. Hard to sue somebody you know is telling the truth.
To this day she'll claim she's never heard of me and that I never worked for the company. But the collection of W-9 tax forms I still have in my possession prove otherwise.
I know these people Brass. I've been around them for hundreds of hours. I've stayed as a guest in their homes. I've heard them speak of the disdain they have for their customers. That might have changed in the past 10+ years, but I don't think so . . . . . . . .
Here you go Brass. From one of their Fall 1997 catalogs. How much to you think publicity like this was worth to Anastasia? I spoke with a couple hundred guys who were on the bubble about taking one of their tours about how great everything was. For every one that signed up, I got a financial bonus. I'm a pretty successful salesman.
In the two years I worked there, this "mom & pop" business had NET profit of over $500 thousand each year. That was after paying each Besuden $10,000 per month salary. That would be in 1997 and 1998. Not bad for 15 years ago.
But again, how does your wife's actions or (I'm assuming) illegal activities at this agency equate to Anastasia being the bad guy? Was Anastasia part and parcel of the illegal activities or did they hold back the 40K as a result of the illegal activities?I'm not dealing in firsthand knowledge about Anastasia on this topic, but I have been told by several different local agency owners that often times the large international agencies hold their subordinate agencies hostage by their commission checks. The payment is always made several weeks or even months in arrears. It is not an uncommon event for the subordinate agency to get paid much less than what they expected. What do you do? Go to the police? Heck no. You call the person up and try to find out what is going on. Once he tells you, how you were paid and that's all the money you are going to receive, you have two choices, accept it and continue to make money or refuse and get zero money.
Who or what made your wife fear for her life - Was it Anastasia Inc or something else?
Correct. And the agencies hold the interpreters and women hostage and keep payment several months in arrears. Fines for alleged discrepancies that did not occur is common practice with Anastasia.
But again, how does your wife's actions or (I'm assuming) illegal activities at this agency equate to Anastasia being the bad guy? Was Anastasia part and parcel of the illegal activities or did they hold back the 40K as a result of the illegal activities?I'm not dealing in firsthand knowledge about Anastasia on this topic, but I have been told by several different local agency owners that often times the large international agencies hold their subordinate agencies hostage by their commission checks. The payment is always made several weeks or even months in arrears. It is not an uncommon event for the subordinate agency to get paid much less than what they expected. What do you do? Go to the police? Heck no. You call the person up and try to find out what is going on. Once he tells you, how you were paid and that's all the money you are going to receive, you have two choices, accept it and continue to make money or refuse and get zero money.
Who or what made your wife fear for her life - Was it Anastasia Inc or something else?
Correct. And the agencies hold the interpreters and women hostage and keep payment several months in arrears. Fines for alleged discrepancies that did not occur is common practice with Anastasia.
And this answers my question(s), how?
Brass
Tell you what. You first establish that you infact worked for the company and would have had knowledge of their finances then you can start posting what their net profits and pay scales were or this is just more indictment claimed by another guy with "inside" knowledge and the inet is awash with people claiming to have inside knowledge of Anastasia.
Number eleven in the first link may be the one the the companies.
I do not believe the second link is related in any way. I am sure there is a number of variations and multiple use of that name in Ukraine.
My wife's profile is on the site as well as several of her friends who signed up at one point. They are married or have boyfriends or were never looking. Looks like the top women are used to drive traffic to Anastasia.
I am indifferent to Anastasia, not going to waste my time trying to take them down. Feel free to think what you want. I am married so does not matter to me what agency guys use.
Number eleven in the first link may be the one the the companies.
I do not believe the second link is related in any way. I am sure there is a number of variations and multiple use of that name in Ukraine.
Well Dream Brides is the name you came up with not me. I'm showing you that there is a website called DreamBrides.
Like I posted if you're wife's profile is still being posted then you have a legitimate complaint. However, you keep shifting you're story regarding you're wife's profile and now you've included her friends profiles as well to again tie Anastasia to some alleged nefarious activity. It's getting less credible.
How do agencies hold employees and women hostage? They withhold payments, they pay them less than promised, they keep them starving so they have to keep going. Women are made to do things they may not normally do because they are put in a bad place. It trickles down from the top. Anastasia to agencies to managers, terps, etc.
I'm not buying it.
That does not mean they are the same company. It may be, I am just not certain on that one. Not sure how it works in Canada but here in the US there are many corporations with very similar names. Go to the Florida corporation link below and use the "search our records" feature. Type in a common sounding company name and see how many come up.
Her profile is posted. We looked into the site a bit as she was upset and several of her friends are there as well without consent. There is no shifting story. Anybody can believe what I say or not if they choose.
Lets pretend that what I and the other posters who are informed (shakespear, chelseaboy, etc) are completely fabricating Anastasia's involvement in fraudulent activities.
Should a man use their services to find a wife after all the pitfalls with agencies are shown?
Out of curiosity Brass, are you in any way affiliated with Anastasia or are you just looking for hard evidence? If the latter I understand, I am the same way.
Tell you what. You first establish that you infact worked for the company and would have had knowledge of their finances then you can start posting what their net profits and pay scales were or this is just more indictment claimed by another guy with "inside" knowledge and the inet is awash with people claiming to have inside knowledge of Anastasia.
OK. Here is my original accusation on the old RWL-St John, the original response by Elena Besuden herself and my response to her defense. She didn't reply aftyer that. Wonder why?
You're an old cop Brass. Funny how my story has stayed remarkably consistant over the past 12-13 years. The truth has a habit of behaving that way.
Do you still have the envelopes with the stamps and postmarks you mentioned in your response? You can attach them here. That'd be pretty substantive. Out of curiosity if you were aware that they were messing with the letters (former employee at the time), why'd you send yours through the same system?
There's more but this really doesn't address the issue of you establishing being an employee of Anastasia and Elena denying you worked there, does it?
Do you still have the envelopes with the stamps and postmarks you mentioned in your response? You can attach them here. That'd be pretty substantive. Out of curiosity if you were aware that they were messing with the letters (former employee at the time), why'd you send yours through the same system?
There's more but this really doesn't address the issue of you establishing being an employee of Anastasia and Elena denying you worked there, does it?
Nope. All that stuff went in the trash when I re-married in 2002.
But I'm pretty sure I still do have a couple of the W-9 forms in my old tax records. Can't guarantee after 12-13 years.
Sure, on the backboard if you want (privacy) I'll confirm here.
Brasscasing, It is obvious what those who are posting think of A web.
If you disagree with them, I only have question. Based on your experience here.
Would you recommend this agency to any one beginning this search?
Actually another good question. What would be the top three agency's you would recommend?
- Have you ever you've been a customer of ANASTASIA?
- Have you ever you have had business relationships with ANASTASIA?
- Have you worked in any competitor of ANASTASIA?
- What is the legal structure of 1 International?
- Who is the owner of the databases used by ANASTASIA on their websites?
- What are trade agreements that link with local ANASTASIA?
- What are the exact functions that professionals working for ANASTASIA and who reside in Russia, Ukraine, etc ...?
- Do they appear as directly by ANASTASIA, belong to other companies or independent?
I beg your pardon if too many questions.
Hello BRASSCASING
The brass is obtained from an alloy of copper and zinc.
With copper wires are made. These serve to conduct electrical current.
With zinc coated steel. Prevents oxidation.
Your driver you feel?
Do you protect yourself from oxidation?
You, here present yourself as a tough guy. With much experience and attitude a bit aggressive. Just a little.
Behind the curtain, I think there's another man.
There is probably a sweet and attentive husband. There is a sensitive and loving father. There is a tender grandfather.
From reading your posts, if we separate the wheat from the chaff, I can draw interesting conclusions.
I think we have reason to be pleased to have you.
Sometimes you're too hard on some people on the forum.
They discussed their experiences here. And most times they do in good faith.
Absolute truth does not exist. We each have our truths.
Reading all these truths gives the reader an approximation of the facts.
So no, your not, is absolutely true.
You probably know much more than ANASTASIA that most of us.
Brass teacher, teach your students ....
I'm going to raise some doubts.
I hope that the return of Ukraine, I can read your answers.
- Have you ever you've been a customer of ANASTASIA?
- Have you ever you have had business relationships with ANASTASIA?
- Have you worked in any competitor of ANASTASIA?
- What is the legal structure of 1 International?
- Who is the owner of the databases used by ANASTASIA on their websites?
- What are trade agreements that link with local ANASTASIA?
- What are the exact functions that professionals working for ANASTASIA and who reside in Russia, Ukraine, etc ...?
- Do they appear as directly by ANASTASIA, belong to other companies or independent?
I beg your pardon if too many questions.
See you soon.
John.
NB: John just a bit of common sense while Brass and I have a rather cool relationship, he considers me snarky. It is rather poor form and tact to speculate on some ones nature and character.
Brass you have exceeded yourself again-in reading the thread comments I thought you were simply playing devils advocate-- but it seems not to be the case.
You, here present yourself as a tough guy. With much experience and attitude a bit aggressive. Just a little.
Behind the curtain, I think there's another man.
From reading your posts, if we separate the wheat from the chaff, I can draw interesting conclusions.
I think we have reason to be pleased to have you.
Sometimes you're too hard on some people on the forum.
They discussed their experiences here. And most times they do in good faith.
Absolute truth does not exist. We each have our truths.
Reading all these truths gives the reader an approximation of the facts.
What a load of twaddle.
You (and the others) are the ones making the accusations/allegations towards this agency, not I. Either start substantiating your accusations/allegations or expect them to be questioned by myself or others. In otherwords put up or shut up.
As we've seen over the last three pages or so a good deal of what has been posted on this thread doesn't stand up under scrutiny (Shakey aside if he can produce the W slips he says he's in possession of which would establish first hand knowledge).
The same goes for you. No more free ride, no more sermonizing from the RUA pulpit. Substantiate your adductions towards this agency or expect to have them removed as groundless/malicious speculation.
Brass
John has very valid points and asks some good questions.
I see the same thing across the different forums for Russian women. There are a group of men who like to argue like old babushkas and tell everyone they are wrong, don’t know what they are talking about, or push their own morals on others. There are a few men that are friendly and provide helpful info but many are just here to inflate their ego for whatever reason. Add in the service providers and you are not left with as much diversity and as many experience. It really does a disservice to the site owner as well as many men looking. Most do not bother posting or becoming involved. It begins to become tiresome for those who have better things to do than argue. I have personally met more RW/AM couples since we were married 6 months ago than the regular posters here and I can tell you that they are very different than what the forums portray. The game is changing and it would behoove those involved to evolve with it.
Good luck to those who are looking.
Also, would you clarify for me what years you were working for Anastasia
So many of the questions posed by John have been dealt before this is beginning to sound like a broken record. Perhaps John has a point - fair enough - post some evidence.
AvHdB
Also, would you clarify for me what years you were working for Anastasia
I worked for Anastasia in 1998 and 1999. I was an independent contractor who was paid commission for sales generated. My work was basically part-time.
I found the 1099 I received for income in 1998 but cannot seem to find the one for 1999. The 1099 shows income in 1998 of $600 and if I remember correctly, my income in 1999 was about $2400.
I was in their Winchester KY office between 3-5 days each month. The rest of the work I did from my home.
There is no doubt that the business model for this Agency has changed with the advent of the internet. However, morals and personal ethics generally do not change over time. If they were guilty of bad business practices back when I worked for them, it is likely they are guilty of bad business practices now.
Here you go Brass. From one of their Fall 1997 catalogs. How much to you think publicity like this was worth to Anastasia? I spoke with a couple hundred guys who were on the bubble about taking one of their tours about how great everything was. For every one that signed up, I got a financial bonus. I'm a pretty successful salesman.
Brass you have exceeded yourself again-in reading the thread comments I thought you were simply playing devils advocate-- but it seems not to be the case.
Most of the other bigger names in the business can be substituted for Anastasia in this discussion-- the practices and relationship with the agencies is essentially the same.
What has really irritated me here Brass is that you are demanding proof BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT-- before you are prepared to concede anything at all. Now-- unless you-- and I mean you Brass-- have knowledge beyond the ability to ask questions-- it is totally innappropriate to attack and demand more from other contributors to the threads here.These allegations are not wild personal attacks-- most of this is already known information -- certainly the fundamentals are not new.
The fact that these companies seem to have been able to construct their affairs to avoid legal action( both criminal & civil) does not make their actions legal or moral.
Finally-- you have an approach to being dismissive of posters here that you know nothing of their backgrounds or knowledge -- the way you write says that you are intelligent-- but it also shows me how dumb you can be.
Forgiveness.
I mean, one person manages the profiles of 10 girls.
You don't know this. Even with the language problems I'm starting to get the impression you're making this up as you go along.
I've asked you some questions upthread you've not bothered to answer. Be aware I do not allow unsubstantiated accusations or false allegations towards agencies regardless of reputation.
In time you'll learn that there are those that would try to spread rumours or innuendo about agencies and individual women for no other reason than they feel they've been slighted or are unsatisfied with the results of their association with said agencies or women.
There is a difference between being scammed and being an unsatisfied customer. It is encumbant on the member to substantiate his accusations not the forum.
John has not made his case here. He is avoiding relevant questions and continues posting further allegations without substantiating them.
This whole story of yours is really getting a bit beyond the pale now...
None of this answers anything I've asked you. Further, your English appears to improve or decline as needed.
As I mentioned up thread there is a difference beween an unsuccessful/unsatsfied customer and a scam. You fall into the former and for whatever reason are now trying to suggest that you've been scammed.
You've mentioned helping others. You're going to need to be a lot more forthcoming and truthful with your narratives if helping is your intention.
Source of info?
There is none. This guy is a crusader. Not a prolific one but stuck in the same program loop just the same. I think he may have tried to use Anastasia and for whatever reason was unsuccessful. Based on what he's posting here (even with language which I think is affected) I'm starting to understand why.
Normally these guys come on great guns, we identify them and as long as they're not causing a ruckess are allowed to stay. Once they are identified though members don't pay much attention to them and the readership pretty much gets the idea. I myself have stopped trying to converse with the guy, it's useless.
Regardless of their reputation even Anastasia is bound to run across undesirable clients.
Mr. Brasscing,
I apologize if I did not answered all your questions.
I think you understand I have the right to do so.
You take a lot right about one thing: "I have not succeeded in Anastasia, and therefore I am resentful.
I have the feeling of being cheated. Maybe I'm wrong ...
That's why I expose my experiences and conclusions.
I need answers and silences those who want to participate in this forum. Thus, my opinions may change.
However, Anastasia has the right to defend my claims. Just enough to show them what I set forth here is false.
They probably will not. They are wrong.
In Spain it is said that a lie repeated often can become a truth.
Arguments based on truth, are devastating to the liar.
Do not forget, my goal is to help others in my humble opinion.
And nothing more. The generating discord is not my favorite game.
Greetings to all.
Two very good postings Jay.
Sashathecat,yes you're right.Too many newish members get belittled by certain long-standing forum posters,who believe themselves to be the font of all knowledge.
I can see why certain long-standing forum members are still single :popcorn:
Whilst not everything said by all forum members will be correct,some idiots do come and go,proof is needed that they are incorrect in their assertions,not just that they are correct.
It can be said that without proof otherwise..Anastasia are innocent,whilst equally it can be said that without proof otherwise the belittled posters on here are equally innocent of lying.
Innocent until proven guilty applies both ways.
If they're not careful,these golden oldies of this forum will have no-one making any postings,because of their attitude,which will make them redundant.
As for Anastasia,well my personal experience of them is that i put my profile on their site 18 months ago,witn NO photo.
I was receiving a minimum of 8 letters a day,from the most beautiful girls imaginable.
I bought some credits in order to read some of these letters,without actually replying to them,and these beauties were all anxious to meet this man with no photo,and set up a cozy home with him.
Now,unless Brass can ascertain that model quality women in Ukraine are so desperate for a foreign husband,that they will accept anyone,regardless of his appearance,this smells of a scam to me.
Anastasia is a scam.....period.
Brass can choose to believe me and other people or not,and we can all choose to take any notice of what he says also. :)
Brass,
I just told you my PERSONAL experience of using Anastasia,so you're now calling me a liar also,as you have others on here.
You have a lot to say for yourself,hiding behind your keyboard.
Let me know when you'll be in Ukraine next,and then call me a liar to my face.
Seems to me you have a vested interest in Anastasia.
There is a huge difference between an unsatisfied customer and a swindle, of course. I can't help but think if Anastasia had "swindled" 7,500-/+ customers, a criminal investigation would have been launched much along the lines of the on line pharmacies or get rich quick schemes that you routinely hear and read about in the news and possibly even shut down. They still seem to be running a have a successful business?
I know in the "early days", many men were successful in getting "chargebacks" from their credit cards; claiming they never received the services they paid for. This really pissed Elena off to no end. She always figured once she had the customer's money it was hers whether she provided satisfactory service or not; and she would throw public fits about how those that did get these chargebacks were now basically stealing money from her. Predictably perverted Russian perspective on the whole thing if you ask me.
I understand she has since hired lawyers and drafted her contracts in such a way to make successfully obtaining a chargeback from a credit card virtually impossible.
OK Brass, do these guys deserve a refund?
Back in the days when "snail mail" was the only way to communicate with the FSU, Anastasia advertised an "Express Letter Service" to their male customers. They claimed they send a DAILY DHL package to their Moscow office and for a small fee ($4) they would include your letter in that package. Once in Moscow their staff would put it in a Russian-size envelope, readdress the letter in Cyrillic and mail it with Russian stamps. They claimed this would speed delivery by 2-3 weeks and would increase reliability of delivery since it would not look like a foreign letter and was less likely to be riffled by curious postal workers looking to augment their pitiful government salary.
Sounds like a great deal, right? Literally THOUSANDS of letters came in requesting this service.
What actually happened? There was no DAILY DHL package. Somebody slapped a $0.50 international airmail stamp on them and dropped them in the mailbox at the Winchester post office. Saw it with my own eyes. Nice 700% profit margin.
The basic dishonesty at the core of the owners of this agency came through with every transaction they processed.
Shakey, I'm simply going to state that if these people (the original owners then the second husband) were perpetrating such silly, amaturish hijinks that could be so easily uncovered and traced (not to mention the original envelope with the affixed air mail stamp and postal station identifier being recoverable as evidence) these people wouldn't be in business now. Anastasia would be long gone or maybe remembered as a footnote to the dumbest, most traceble scam in the history of the MOB industry.
Yet, this isn't the case, Dan Sykes, not running, not hiding, not ducking and dodging the civil suits and law...he's buying heritage buildings at public auctions:
http://bangordailynews.com/2010/07/21/news/bangor/whig-and-courier-sells-at-auction-for-355000/
Paneling at international trade shows...
http://img.idate2010.com/2010/LA/photos800/Internet-Dating-Conference-iDate2010-Regulatory-Panel-Los-Angeles-2.jpg
That's Anastasia's Dan Sykes speaking on Regulation of Online Dating
http://idate2010.com/speakers-la-2010.php
... right above the Deputy Director for Public Diplomacy's government emblem speaking on how the State Department Uses Social Networking to Engage U.S. Citizens and Foreigners on Items Related to the U.S. Government, Security & Access
Why isn't any of this stuff sticking?
Brass
Quote from: BrasscasingThere is a huge difference between an unsatisfied customer and a swindle, of course. I can't help but think if Anastasia had "swindled" 7,500-/+ customers, a criminal investigation would have been launched much along the lines of the on line pharmacies or get rich quick schemes that you routinely hear and read about in the news and possibly even shut down. They still seem to be running a have a successful business?
If my recollection does not fail I believe FBI at one point were investigating Anastasiaweb.com but it never panned out in anything probably because the sort of Scam and swindle Anastasia INC. performs is so difficult to prove and effectively win in a court of law. That is probably why Anastasia INC. has not been trialled yet but they should definitely been shut down for poor business conduct ages ago.Quote from: shakespearI know in the "early days", many men were successful in getting "chargebacks" from their credit cards; claiming they never received the services they paid for. This really pissed Elena off to no end. She always figured once she had the customer's money it was hers whether she provided satisfactory service or not; and she would throw public fits about how those that did get these chargebacks were now basically stealing money from her. Predictably perverted Russian perspective on the whole thing if you ask me.
I understand she has since hired lawyers and drafted her contracts in such a way to make successfully obtaining a chargeback from a credit card virtually impossible.
I have successfully made several charge backs from Anastasiweb for phone translations. We are talking about 5 or 6 chargebacks but mind you that was probably 5-6 years ago. Many's wife did actually listen in to the conversations so there is the proof.
Let's not mix words. Basically you're calling me a liar.
Quote from: BrasscasingThere is a huge difference between an unsatisfied customer and a swindle, of course. I can't help but think if Anastasia had "swindled" 7,500-/+ customers, a criminal investigation would have been launched much along the lines of the on line pharmacies or get rich quick schemes that you routinely hear and read about in the news and possibly even shut down. They still seem to be running a have a successful business?
If my recollection does not fail I believe FBI at one point were investigating Anastasiaweb.com but it never panned out in anything probably because the sort of Scam and swindle Anastasia INC. performs is so difficult to prove and effectively win in a court of law. That is probably why Anastasia INC. has not been trialled yet but they should definitely been shut down for poor business conduct ages ago.Quote from: shakespearI know in the "early days", many men were successful in getting "chargebacks" from their credit cards; claiming they never received the services they paid for. This really pissed Elena off to no end. She always figured once she had the customer's money it was hers whether she provided satisfactory service or not; and she would throw public fits about how those that did get these chargebacks were now basically stealing money from her. Predictably perverted Russian perspective on the whole thing if you ask me.
I understand she has since hired lawyers and drafted her contracts in such a way to make successfully obtaining a chargeback from a credit card virtually impossible.
I have successfully made several charge backs from Anastasiweb for phone translations. We are talking about 5 or 6 chargebacks but mind you that was probably 5-6 years ago. Many's wife did actually listen in to the conversations so there is the proof.
Hi Eldanes :)
I assume you mean Manny's wife. Can you tell us what the chargebacks were related to?
Brass
Excuse me but are you by any chance on Anastasia INC.'s payroll? You must be if you continually keep fending off all the shite that rightfully is being thrown at Anastasia INC. I could not imagine anybody taking the rep for the BS that (again rightly) is fired against AW for no pay.
Hence can I assume you are on their payroll?
AW would be phoning me telling oh lady X is not available (she had not been available for the last 2 weeks or so) but we have got Jane Doe on the line which you tried to phone the other day. I would then have a conversation for 10 mins and been told the charges for the next session. However, they would never take my creditcard details and would just charge any of the ones I had used previously. F.ex I could have closed the card or got a new card issued from when I intially made the phone reservation till they actually got hold of the lady. Then when the call was over and I long gone they realised the card they had on file for the phone appontment was no longer valid. Hence they just picked one of the other cards I had used previously. FAULT!! Back charged big time.
However, I sense your interest to this issue is due to the same reasons you are defending them so vigorously.
Correct. And the agencies hold the interpreters and women hostage and keep payment several months in arrears. Fines for alleged discrepancies that did not occur is common practice with Anastasia.
AW would be phoning me telling oh lady X is not available (she had not been available for the last 2 weeks or so) but we have got Jane Doe on the line which you tried to phone the other day. I would then have a conversation for 10 mins and been told the charges for the next session. However, they would never take my creditcard details and would just charge any of the ones I had used previously. F.ex I could have closed the card or got a new card issued from when I intially made the phone reservation till they actually got hold of the lady. Then when the call was over and I long gone they realised the card they had on file for the phone appontment was no longer valid. Hence they just picked one of the other cards I had used previously. FAULT!! Back charged big time.Au contrare, so I assume these were prepay cards then, yes? Explain 'Fault back charged big time' were you getting extra charges because of their trying to bill unvalid cards? I don't understand that reference...
Brass
Next question; did they get their money? Did I offer them using another card? No, they have been scamming me the past 5 years prior to this incident so this was just me taking back some of what they had scammed me for.
Easy Shakespear, I believe he did not mean you are a liar. He calls folks that all the time so I guess this is just the way he address people.
However, a poor way of addressing people as if a first time forum reader sees that the moderators are blatantly calling people liars y other names it may very well discourage them from posting on this forum.
Ways to go brass, I am sure Many will appreciate your effort.
Excuse me but are you by any chance on Anastasia INC.'s payroll? You must be if you continually keep fending off all the shite that rightfully is being thrown at Anastasia INC. I could not imagine anybody taking the rep for the BS that (again rightly) is fired against AW for no pay.
Hence can I assume you are on their payroll?
Rightly, in your opinion. Note that much of what has transpired on this topic has been shown to be false, unsubstantiated or exaggeration over the last few days.
So, what's your story with this agency? Or link it if you've already posted it here.
Am I an employee of Anastasia? No. I'm a mod/admin of this forum. If I see repeated false, exaggerated or unsubstantiated malicious inuendo towards an agency then I'll question them. Yes, this agency has a bad reputation, however, in this Rm we substantiate accusations of wrongdoing. We are not a forum dedicated to the underbelly of the internet where the crazy, diseffected and scam hunters roam. We like to at least have some substatiation for allegations/accusations. RUA is not a pulpit for sermonizing and slander.
I'm well aware that certain members don't like being shown their fantasies, assumptions, what they've read elsewhere and accept as the collective right/knowledge or bitterness because they've failed at an endeavor and need to place the blame elsewhere. I've done it before many times here and the howls, cries of protecting the agency/individual and bleating are expected and are recorded for posterity.
A little substantiation is all that's required if making an accusation, real simple. :)
Brass
No, they were normal debit or credit cards. As you surely know every card has an exp. date.
Many of my cards expire around the same time and sometime I get a better offer and close my card; getting a new with another bank/society.
So because they were so poor in getting hold of a lady my card would either have expired or I could have got a new instead of then one they had on file once they were to charge my card.
This is when they used any of my other cards but as you can imagine that was not auth by me hence I filed for a charge back.
Next question; did they get their money? Did I offer them using another card? No, they have been scamming me the past 5 years prior to this incident so this was just me taking back some of what they had scammed me for.
Just an observation:
You Me
Number of times to FSU 5 18+ (counting my visas and entry stamps in the last to passports)
Used AW Yes
Used Army of Brides Yes
Used Jump4love Yes
Misc agencies in country 10+
Number of ex partners in FSU 2
First Trip to FSU 1995
Last trip to FSA 2009 (too much swindle, scam, dishonest people in UA)
QuoteNext question; did they get their money? Did I offer them using another card? No, they have been scamming me the past 5 years prior to this incident so this was just me taking back some of what they had scammed me for.
Not to take a position regarding this controversy (although I would never use Anastasia.com), but five years is an awfully long time to get scammed by the same agency. Didn't you think of discontinuing things with them, say, after the first year?
I never used them more than 1 year or two in my rookie time. After then I used all other sorts of agencies. As Manny's wife know I used AW to set up phone appointments of ladies on their web site who were also llisted on other agencies websites and where I was actually having my communication.
Only problem was those web sites woudl not provide me with contact details like tel number and I had to catch the ladies off guard from another agency to figure out if she was aware who I was, if she could recognise any reference to previous communication on the other web site etc.
Basically it was a test as to if she was for real and actually the one who wrote the letters. Manny's wife was there listening in to what was said and to confirm what was said were correctly translated as well as to gather her oppinion of the educational level of the lady and personality.
I would then also get the ladies private number and Elena would phone the lady trying to set her up on a scam. This to figure out if the lady was indeed a decent woman or just another scammer.
No, they were normal debit or credit cards. As you surely know every card has an exp. date.
Many of my cards expire around the same time and sometime I get a better offer and close my card; getting a new with another bank/society.
So because they were so poor in getting hold of a lady my card would either have expired or I could have got a new instead of then one they had on file once they were to charge my card.
This is when they used any of my other cards but as you can imagine that was not auth by me hence I filed for a charge back.
Next question; did they get their money? Did I offer them using another card? No, they have been scamming me the past 5 years prior to this incident so this was just me taking back some of what they had scammed me for.
1) Ah.
2) Back to this for a moment; Am I to understand that you were talking to ladies you hadn't booked (to talk to) or you were talking to ladies you had booked/previously booked? If I read your previous post correctly you were ending up talking to ladies you had booked several weeks(?) prior not the lady you thought you were going to talk to at the time (you called), is that correct?
3) OK, I get that now. Did they (Anastasia Inc.) explain why they wouldn't take your new card at the time (you tried to give it to them)?
4) Not my question but a follow up; How were they scamming you for 5 years?
Brass
I never used them more than 1 year or two in my rookie time. After then I used all other sorts of agencies. As Manny's wife know I used AW to set up phone appointments of ladies on their web site who were also llisted on other agencies websites and where I was actually having my communication.
Only problem was those web sites woudl not provide me with contact details like tel number and I had to catch the ladies off guard from another agency to figure out if she was aware who I was, if she could recognise any reference to previous communication on the other web site etc.
Basically it was a test as to if she was for real and actually the one who wrote the letters. Manny's wife was there listening in to what was said and to confirm what was said were correctly translated as well as to gather her oppinion of the educational level of the lady and personality.
I would then also get the ladies private number and Elena would phone the lady trying to set her up on a scam. This to figure out if the lady was indeed a decent woman or just another scammer.
[My bolded] Elena? Elena from Anastasia was setting up her own ladies or are we now talking about ladies from different agencies (outside Anastasia's affiliates/feeders)?
Brass
f me - getting old. Can't remember what happend yesterday. My mistake mannys wife is called Olga sorry for the screw-up.
See my script is so devious that even you can't follow me :)
John has very valid points and asks some good questions.
I see the same thing across the different forums for Russian women. There are a group of men who like to argue like old babushkas and tell everyone they are wrong, don’t know what they are talking about, or push their own morals on others. There are a few men that are friendly and provide helpful info but many are just here to inflate their ego for whatever reason. Add in the service providers and you are not left with as much diversity and as many experience. It really does a disservice to the site owner as well as many men looking. Most do not bother posting or becoming involved. It begins to become tiresome for those who have better things to do than argue. I have personally met more RW/AM couples since we were married 6 months ago than the regular posters here and I can tell you that they are very different than what the forums portray. The game is changing and it would behoove those involved to evolve with it.
Good luck to those who are looking.
Sorry do not want to sound or look like the "old babushka". My impression there is a rather rich and diverse base in RUA, searching for a partner from what was the former Soviet Union. Some even have success! You are correct from my experience the "game" is changing but in fact it might not be in a positive direction.
So many of the questions posed by John have been dealt before this is beginning to sound like a broken record. Perhaps John has a point - fair enough - post some evidence.
AvHdB
f me - getting old. Can't remember what happend yesterday. My mistake mannys wife is called Olga sorry for the screw-up.
See my script is so devious that even you can't follow me :)
:chuckle: No problem. Alright just one more question today as I've been on this computer too long myself and my phone is starting to ring with people wondering where I am. ;D
Within the bounds of confidentiality (with Ladagirl's services) were any of the ladies (Anastasia clients) that you contacted by phone found to be untruthful?
Brass
All of them were full of crap and cheats.
I shall post the communication I had with the customer service of AW later. It relates to a lady that was removed for scamming/being dishonest
I can see why certain long-standing forum members are still single :popcorn:
All of them were full of crap and cheats.
I shall post the communication I had with the customer service of AW later. It relates to a lady that was removed for scamming/being dishonest
...Wow.
Ok.
Now, before the rest of the usual suspects dive in with the We've been vindicated routine...No, you haven't. One member (Eldanes) has been shown to have a credible complaint...Assuming Ladagirl doesn't sign on and contradict him, I'll take her silence as meaning his quote above is correct.
Brass
Woaah, hang fire. This has nothing to do with Lada girl. She was at no point involved in this. That complaint, and later removal of the girl, was after Ladagirl were involved in my business dealings.
I never used them more than 1 year or two in my rookie time. After then I used all other sorts of agencies. As Manny's wife know I used AW to set up phone appointments of ladies on their web site who were also llisted on other agencies websites and where I was actually having my communication.
Only problem was those web sites woudl not provide me with contact details like tel number and I had to catch the ladies off guard from another agency to figure out if she was aware who I was, if she could recognise any reference to previous communication on the other web site etc.
Basically it was a test as to if she was for real and actually the one who wrote the letters. Manny's wife was there listening in to what was said and to confirm what was said were correctly translated as well as to gather her oppinion of the educational level of the lady and personality.
I would then also get the ladies private number and Elena would phone the lady trying to set her up on a scam. This to figure out if the lady was indeed a decent woman or just another scammer.
[My bolded] Elena? Elena from Anastasia was setting up her own ladies or are we now talking about ladies from different agencies (outside Anastasia's affiliates/feeders)?
f me - getting old. Can't remember what happend yesterday. My mistake mannys wife is called Olga sorry for the screw-up.
See my script is so devious that even you can't follow me :)
:chuckle: No problem. Alright just one more question today as I've been on this computer too long myself and my phone is starting to ring with people wondering where I am. ;D
Within the bounds of confidentiality (with Ladagirl's services) were any of the ladies (Anastasia clients) that you contacted by phone found to be untruthful?
All of them were full of crap and cheats.
I shall post the communication I had with the customer service of AW later. It relates to a lady that was removed for scamming/being dishonest
Woaah, hang fire. The girl being kicked off AW has nothing to do with Lada girl. She was at no point involved in this. That complaint, and later removal of the girl, was not related to my business with Ladagirl.
Ladagirl were involved in my business dealings phoning to confirm the ladies sincerity. The only involvement Ladagirl had was to check out the ladies I spoke to on the phone via AW
Woaah, hang fire. This has nothing to do with Lada girl. She was at no point involved in this. That complaint, and later removal of the girl, was after Ladagirl were involved in my business dealings.
I'm not talking about the complaint and removal of the girl.
I'm referring to your post here:I never used them more than 1 year or two in my rookie time. After then I used all other sorts of agencies. As Manny's wife know I used AW to set up phone appointments of ladies on their web site who were also llisted on other agencies websites and where I was actually having my communication.
Only problem was those web sites woudl not provide me with contact details like tel number and I had to catch the ladies off guard from another agency to figure out if she was aware who I was, if she could recognise any reference to previous communication on the other web site etc.
Basically it was a test as to if she was for real and actually the one who wrote the letters. Manny's wife was there listening in to what was said and to confirm what was said were correctly translated as well as to gather her oppinion of the educational level of the lady and personality.
I would then also get the ladies private number and Elena would phone the lady trying to set her up on a scam. This to figure out if the lady was indeed a decent woman or just another scammer.
[My bolded] Elena? Elena from Anastasia was setting up her own ladies or are we now talking about ladies from different agencies (outside Anastasia's affiliates/feeders)?
f me - getting old. Can't remember what happend yesterday. My mistake mannys wife is called Olga sorry for the screw-up.
See my script is so devious that even you can't follow me :)
I then responded::chuckle: No problem. Alright just one more question today as I've been on this computer too long myself and my phone is starting to ring with people wondering where I am. ;D
Within the bounds of confidentiality (with Ladagirl's services) were any of the ladies (Anastasia clients) that you contacted by phone found to be untruthful?
To which you replied:All of them were full of crap and cheats.
I shall post the communication I had with the customer service of AW later. It relates to a lady that was removed for scamming/being dishonest
Am I to now understand that this isn't what happened?
Edit: Alright. I see you've edited to include the following [my bolded]...Woaah, hang fire. The girl being kicked off AW has nothing to do with Lada girl. She was at no point involved in this. That complaint, and later removal of the girl, was not related to my business with Ladagirl.
Ladagirl were involved in my business dealings phoning to confirm the ladies sincerity. The only involvement Ladagirl had was to check out the ladies I spoke to on the phone via AW
...which leads me back to my origianl question...
Did you find any of AW's lady clients (the women you had telephone coversations with) and subsequently had Ladagirl check out for you (as you've mentioned above) to be untruthful? :)
Brass
Yeah, they were lying scum of the worst sort. Would not believe any of them even if I met them in person.
Woaah, hang fire. This has nothing to do with Lada girl. She was at no point involved in this. That complaint, and later removal of the girl, was after Ladagirl were involved in my business dealings.
I'm not talking about the complaint and removal of the girl.
I'm referring to your post here:I never used them more than 1 year or two in my rookie time. After then I used all other sorts of agencies. As Manny's wife know I used AW to set up phone appointments of ladies on their web site who were also llisted on other agencies websites and where I was actually having my communication.
Only problem was those web sites woudl not provide me with contact details like tel number and I had to catch the ladies off guard from another agency to figure out if she was aware who I was, if she could recognise any reference to previous communication on the other web site etc.
Basically it was a test as to if she was for real and actually the one who wrote the letters. Manny's wife was there listening in to what was said and to confirm what was said were correctly translated as well as to gather her oppinion of the educational level of the lady and personality.
I would then also get the ladies private number and Elena would phone the lady trying to set her up on a scam. This to figure out if the lady was indeed a decent woman or just another scammer.
[My bolded] Elena? Elena from Anastasia was setting up her own ladies or are we now talking about ladies from different agencies (outside Anastasia's affiliates/feeders)?
f me - getting old. Can't remember what happend yesterday. My mistake mannys wife is called Olga sorry for the screw-up.
See my script is so devious that even you can't follow me :)
I then responded::chuckle: No problem. Alright just one more question today as I've been on this computer too long myself and my phone is starting to ring with people wondering where I am. ;D
Within the bounds of confidentiality (with Ladagirl's services) were any of the ladies (Anastasia clients) that you contacted by phone found to be untruthful?
To which you replied:All of them were full of crap and cheats.
I shall post the communication I had with the customer service of AW later. It relates to a lady that was removed for scamming/being dishonest
Am I to now understand that this isn't what happened?
Edit: Alright. I see you've edited to include the following [my bolded]...Woaah, hang fire. The girl being kicked off AW has nothing to do with Lada girl. She was at no point involved in this. That complaint, and later removal of the girl, was not related to my business with Ladagirl.
Ladagirl were involved in my business dealings phoning to confirm the ladies sincerity. The only involvement Ladagirl had was to check out the ladies I spoke to on the phone via AW
...which leads me back to my origianl question...
Did you find any of AW's lady clients (the women you had telephone coversations with) and subsequently had Ladagirl check out for you (as you've mentioned above) to be untruthful? :)
Brass
...which leads me back to my origianl question...
. I would rather think that AW's customer services communication with me would be more of a proof to the scam going on. And their confirmation that they removed the lady from the site.
eldanes,CB --you know we are in agreement here on the big picture issues and most of what is being said about the websites( I include most as the agencies feed to many sites).
Not sure i'm the person you should be asking,seeing as how i've been accused of being a liar by Brass.
Clearly,it's us people that accuse Anastasia of being a scam outfit,that are the real dishonest,misleading ones :evilgrin0002:,not those sweet,honest,sincere Ukrainian agency girls,and their agencies,that use Anastasia. :saint:
eldanes,CB --you know we are in agreement here on the big picture issues and most of what is being said about the websites( I include most as the agencies feed to many sites).
Not sure i'm the person you should be asking,seeing as how i've been accused of being a liar by Brass.
Clearly,it's us people that accuse Anastasia of being a scam outfit,that are the real dishonest,misleading ones :evilgrin0002:,not those sweet,honest,sincere Ukrainian agency girls,and their agencies,that use Anastasia. :saint:
The one area that needs some caution is the vilification of all Ukrainians, all the girls motives and attitudes. I do not doubt your experiences in any way-- what I am saying is that not all are guilty as accused. As you can read in this thread-- despite being involved in agencies-- a girl did meet her husband and is now getting on with life.(Sashcat) . As he said-- she now has a much wider understanding of the issues involved.
I have spoken to many in Ukraine-- and no-- I am not going to get to specific ( Sashacat has already touched on how dangerous that could be) --people who do know this business and also many girls,some who no nothing or not much more than their small part. Basically the rationalisation to the girls is that the guys are volunteering to spend their money-- so how can anything be wrong with that. Of course-- it totally misses the point that money is being spent on false premise-- ie that girl is looking for a husband. Short answer-- girl is looking but not for fat 70 WM.
Now-- if you read carefully on forum-- you will see that what is essentially the same rationalisation is made by the defenders of the websites-- ie a fool is soon parted from his money.
What seems to be missed is the fact the US companies have constructed their business in such a way that makes them near imposFromsible to bring to account over the misrepresentations they preside over.
The before mentioned friend of mine who now works on cruse ships tells me every time she is back in Odessa and hear a foreigner sitting at a table with two girls that clearly tells him BS she goes over to his table and tell him she will be his terp for free for the next 10 min. and will then tell what she has overheard and leave.
Eldanés
Alright, just attach the 1099-Miscellaneous showing Anatasia paid you $600. in 1998 on the backboard.
Not impressed Shakey. You've posted a number of times over the years that you were an "employee" "consultant" "independent contractor" or otherwise "worked" or were "employed" for/by Anastasia. A 1099 form is for 'nonemployee' compensation.
...which leads me back to my origianl question...
. I would rather think that AW's customer services communication with me would be more of a proof to the scam going on. And their confirmation that they removed the lady from the site.
I have no doubt that the gist of what you are saying is truthfull.The problem is that when one individual case ( like yours here) is argued it diverts the real issues into a one off personal attack--on you.Those that seek to discredit the critics attempt to pick flaws in the individual and their comments. What can too easily be ignored is that what you are saying is in effect-- another confirmation of the malpractice of these sites-- I include many others-- as they feed from many of the same agencies.
So-- getting involved in a yes/no argument about one case( if you read the forum there must be 1000+ posts saying much the same as you are) is a diversion from a bigger picture issues that have been touched on in this thread.
If you read the thread carefully-- you will see the attempts to keep discussion on the lowest common denominator( ie individual cases)-- think about why those people that are attempting to do that-- now that is something that does interest me-- and then-- what can really be done in real terms( I am not talking about a few chargebacks)
Typical scenario: A 50-year old guy with no game and a big belly (let’s call him “Smith”), who never gets eye contact from a girl back home in say, Georgia, suddenly touches ground in Medellin, Colombia and suddenly 30-year old women are making eye contact with him.
Add to that, Smith hasn’t traveled much before, and being in a new country feels exciting. He feels young again and his testosterone is pumping.
Smith has a date with a MILF that he set up on Amigos.com beforehand, bangs a few hookers, gets some eye contact from the local ladies, and then goes back home to Georgia telling everyone that Colombia has absolutely the hottest women on the planet, and that the U.S. only has ugly “fem- :censored:s” who won’t give him the time of day.
It’s not that your typical 20 year old girl in Colombia is any hotter than your typical 20 year old girl in Miami or Los Angeles. She isn’t.
But to the old guy Smith who hasn’t gotten laid in over ten years, he’s suddenly being validated with eye contact, he’s on a travel high, his ego shoots through the roof, and he thinks he’s in pussy and hot women paradise.
The truth is, his opinions are wrapped up in his own ego. He is in no way objective.
I think I have enough "street credibility" on this forum to get over your failure to be impressed.
Every word I've said is true. Every statement I've made is backed by facts.
I will grant that my experience (from 1998-1999) is certainly dated and there is a possibility that the corporate culture at Anastasia could have changed 180-degrees from then until now. There is also a possibility one can get struck by falling debris from space. I'd calculate the odds for each as virtually identical.
Elena Besuden is a very clever and intelligent woman. As the internet was developing for business use, she conceptualized how this could be applied to international dating. Using her existing contacts in Russia, Anastasia International morphed into AnastasiaWeb and she became a millionaire many times over. You have to respect her for her foresight and management skills to accomplish this task. She is truly an internet millionaire.
That said, the contempt they have for their customers, the way they conduct their business and the way they handle customer complaints makes them a company to avoid if possible.
However, I am not entirely sure why Olga is a major factor in this. I would rather think that AW's customer services communication with me would be more of a proof to the scam going on. And their confirmation that they removed the lady from the site.
Brass,
Why did i join Anastasia 18 months ago ?
Because i was communicating with a girl on another site,who then informed me she was leaving that site,but would be available on Anastasia still.
So,i joined Anastasia to stay in touch with her,leaving my photo off my profile there assuming no-one else would contact me,but they still did,and many of them.
Despite my misgivings about the girl now being an Anastasia girl,i did meet her in Kiev,and she turned out to be a prodater/scammer,the experience of which i've already written about on another thread.
So,you can try and deflect my comments about Anastasia as much as you like,but i know the real truth.
Hello Matt,
I put my profile on there about a year ago,without any photo,to test the reaction.
I was receiving about ten letters a day from drop-dead gorgeous hotties.
Those Anastasia girls sure are desperate to marry a foreign guy,it doesn't even matter what you look like. (:)
Girls on that site are rewarded with prizes,including a new car,for being the most productive chatters on there.
I would give the site a BIG negative.
Still, you gave and have given over the years the impression you were more involved with the agency than what you were compensated for (imo). However, I asked, you produced.
QuoteOK, next...does not removal of this profile lend credence to the idea that they're (Anastasia) trying to do the right thing though?Are you taking the mickey? So the customer back-corner AW, no way to escape, and they are doing the right thing! You must f joking when saying doing the right thing.QuoteFinding and removing a scammer is proactive, no?
Finding scammer/dishonest ladies themself is good but it was actually me who did the finding and had to caugh up for trip, food, gift expenses. No reimbursment there so sorry that was not proactive at all.QuoteDid you receive compensation for your communications with this lady or some sort of credit/refund?Brass, somtimes I am not sure if you are joking or having a laugh. AW gives fuk all back to anybody unless the customer take it back themselves.
Brass,before you start slating me for another unsubstantiated rumour ,you can speak to the interpreter yourself.I think she knows more about what goes on out there than you ever will.
I'm sure you know who i'm talking about.If not i can send you a pm.
Brass, what do you make of this?
#200172953 Customer Support Dear Thomas, Thank you for your letter. I have re-read Elena's ID: 57533 36th letter. I have contacted the agency and have fined them for this inconvenience they have caused. I have also warned them that if this issue is repeated, the interpreter will be requested to be fired. I would like to assure you that the ladies write their letters in English and it is impossible for Elena to replace your name - Thomas with a name Mark. I hope that Elena's daughter will get well soon. Thank you for your understanding in this issue. If you have any other questions, please let me know. Best regards, Anton, AW Customer Service www.anastasiaweb.com 12 Mar 2007
#200217519 Customer Support Dear Tom, Thank you for your letter. Please remember that we can not be responsible for the ladies' correspondence with you. I have tried to settle this situation for more than three months, and I am sure that you will agree with me. However, the lady has continued her inappropriate behavior. I have contacted her local agency and have requested the explanation of this issue. After I receive the lady's reply, I will make the decision about the deletion of thelady from our system. We provide the opportunity to both ladies and gentlemen to comfortably correspond. But we are not able to understand the ladies' intention for joining the site, though we work hard for protecting our customers and maintaining high standards of service. I will keep you informed. Best regards, Anton, AW Customer Service www.anastasiaweb.com 18 May 2007
Customer Support Dear Thomas, We contacted the local agency of Elena (ID: 57533). The matter is that Elena's profile was removed on 4/26/2007, she canceled her membership due to unspecified personal reason. I added 1 credit back to your account for sending this letter. Best regards, Maria, AW Customer Service www.anastasiaweb.com 21 May 2007
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Elana was removed from Anastasia, but I was still able to write her on several other sites.
she ended up on many scam sites and had some very interesting comments from the men that went to meet her.
I would be glad to post the complete exchange with Anastasia as I did call them out on this letter writing scam.
There were many red flags that made clear Elena could not have written her own letters.
she did not even know her own profession for God sake. :nod:
Elana's Profile was removed for personal reason being, this way Anastasia would not need to give a refund.
Google "Enena Alekseenko" you will see she has a colorful past
Still, you gave and have given over the years the impression you were more involved with the agency than what you were compensated for (imo). However, I asked, you produced.
Compensation does not necessarily equal knowledge.
Janitors know much more than they're compensated for because they have access to everything in the building.
I was in their offices enough to know what was going on and to see exactly how the company operated.
I spent several nights in Winchester, KY as a houseguest of David Besuden.
The Office Manager was and still is a good friend of mine.
You're trying to defend the indefensible here Brass.
I haven't been very active on the forum for a while. Maybe there are some personality conflicts that I don't know about. Honestly, I just don't understand Brass's position concerning Anastasia. (shrugs shoulders).
I haven't been very active on the forum for a while. Maybe there are some personality conflicts that I don't know about. Honestly, I just don't understand Brass's position concerning Anastasia. (shrugs shoulders).
OK.
I've cleaned up the topic a bit and will re-open it for discussion.
Let's try to keep this topic about specific experiences with Anastasia International, AnastasiaWeb and any of their affiliates, subchapter corporations or key management personnel.
Thanks in advance.
Shakespear
I suggest we start over for my part. As you say we are discussing specific experiences with AW et al.
Nobody is going to raise a court case and as this is a discussion about experience there is no requirement for proof or evidence.
Yeah, but if some of the people with the 'claimed' side effects had only experienced them after stealing the product.
If some of the people claiming the 'side effects' had also had the same 'side effects' with other different drugs.
If some of the people claiming the 'side effects' displayed the same symptoms of thse claimed side effects in normal life.
In those cases it'd make sense for even a very casually handled forum to want to try to sort out the people who were simply the mentally ill, disaffected, liars and dishonest crowd seekers from those who might, just possibly, have had some kind of extra side effect.
Coz that's what we have here and it is what Brass was trying, I think, to address.
I'd be really interested to see credible people with real stories to tell. The odd thing is that the most credible folks seem to be those who say stuff like 'I hear they (whoever 'they' may be in this context) are a bit hinky and I came across some strange profiles but I ignored those and met up with XYZ person in Kiev last month and we are getting on just great.'
The moaners and whiners are folks who, on the whole, never come to terms with the reality that the very process of MOB stuff is riddled with dishonesty and take actions to minimise the effects and go on to find that which they seek.
Yeah, but if some of the people with the 'claimed' side effects had only experienced them after stealing the product.
If some of the people claiming the 'side effects' had also had the same 'side effects' with other different drugs.
If some of the people claiming the 'side effects' displayed the same symptoms of thse claimed side effects in normal life.
In those cases it'd make sense for even a very casually handled forum to want to try to sort out the people who were simply the mentally ill, disaffected, liars and dishonest crowd seekers from those who might, just possibly, have had some kind of extra side effect.
Coz that's what we have here and it is what Brass was trying, I think, to address.
I'd be really interested to see credible people with real stories to tell. The odd thing is that the most credible folks seem to be those who say stuff like 'I hear they (whoever 'they' may be in this context) are a bit hinky and I came across some strange profiles but I ignored those and met up with XYZ person in Kiev last month and we are getting on just great.'
The moaners and whiners are folks who, on the whole, never come to terms with the reality that the very process of MOB stuff is riddled with dishonesty and take actions to minimise the effects and go on to find that which they seek.
Andrew,
You are a comercial member living of promoting a competitor to AW. Sorry I can take you seriously.
Eldanes:
I've read your communication record and the comments I'm making are not meant to ridicule, but to educate.
Your experience documented upthread is virtually the "textbook" Pro-Dater scam that is being practiced all over Ukraine on unsuspecting western men. You have documented very well how the "plot develops" in this situation and as such, your post does have educational and informative value to others.
I do have say, in hindsight that you ignored virtually every red flag and warning sign that came across your path toward the conclusion of this disaster. A man who is true to himself will examine a bad experience, accept his share of the blame for the bad outcome and do what he can to recognize and eliminate repeating the mistakes he made in the process. It's really wasting energy to flail your arms and shriek about how horrible the people who scammed you are.
I think it is safe to say that most men who have spent time educating themselves about the process of finding a bride in the FSU wouldn't have wasted their time repeatedly trying to make contact and follow through with a meeting with such a lady. She would have been "dismissed" early on the the initial contact phase of the courtship. You really must have fallen for the picture of those boobs.
I've always considered it a fact that western men who claim they were scammed by women in Ukraine bear a large responsibility for "scamming themselves". I think this is unquestionably true in your case. I think your post is not so much of a condemnation of Anastasiaweb as it is a caution to men of the dating reality which is prevalent in an economically depressed country like Ukraine.
I'm hopeful that you emerged from this disaster a bit bruised, but a great deal wiser for the experience. After all, the bruises will heal, but isn't learning from experience what life's all about?
'Yeah, but if some of the people with the 'claimed' side effects had only experienced them after stealing the product.
If some of the people claiming the 'side effects' had also had the same 'side effects' with other different drugs.
If some of the people claiming the 'side effects' displayed the same symptoms of thse claimed side effects in normal life.
In those cases it'd make sense for even a very casually handled forum to want to try to sort out the people who were simply the mentally ill, disaffected, liars and dishonest crowd seekers from those who might, just possibly, have had some kind of extra side effect.
Coz that's what we have here and it is what Brass was trying, I think, to address.
I'd be really interested to see credible people with real stories to tell. The odd thing is that the most credible folks seem to be those who say stuff like 'I hear they (whoever 'they' may be in this context) are a bit hinky and I came across some strange profiles but I ignored those and met up with XYZ person in Kiev last month and we are getting on just great.'
The moaners and whiners are folks who, on the whole, never come to terms with the reality that the very process of MOB stuff is riddled with dishonesty and take actions to minimise the effects and go on to find that which they seek.
Andrew,
You are a comercial member living of promoting a competitor to AW. Sorry I can take you seriously.
1) No I am not. I am labelled as a commercial member because some folks were unhappy that I wrote an independent reprot about the mail order bride industry.
2) If you are unable to read and analyse objectively that which you read then your problems go MUCH MUCH further than how you conduct your relationships with any particular company that is helping you to meet and marry a woman.
Your post illustrates where you might be running into problems. You are not thinking, you are jumping to conclusions and you are, as you told us, unable to read and analyse what you read in an objective fashion. In such circumstances you find yourself in the unhappy position of believing all that you read and not being able to sort out fact from advertising copy which should be fact based but sometimes is not.
Aweb may well not be perfect, indeed I am sure of it, but you are contributing to your own problems here.
My first trip to Colombia took place 2 months after my frist trip to Ukraine and 1 weeks after a Ukainian bird had visited me in Denmark for 2 weeks and I had had my sample of Ukraine mentality.(emphasis added)
Eldames:QuoteMy first trip to Colombia took place 2 months after my frist trip to Ukraine and 1 weeks after a Ukainian bird had visited me in Denmark for 2 weeks and I had had my sample of Ukraine mentality.(emphasis added)
Jumpin' Jehosaphat, you've been at the wrong sites!
Here is what you seem to need:
http://www.birdlist.org/ukraine.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_birds_of_Ukraine
http://avibase.bsc-eoc.org/checklist.jsp?region=UA
Guys, we've isolated the problem here. I think that for all the long discussion about ladies and women we've overlooked what this gentleman has been trying to say. He is after birds, not boobs. Perhaps the agencies should have been more clear in promoting their products. (duh)
Personally I'd think the birds in Columbia to be more exotic anyway. :)
Eldanes, you have been at this stuff long enough to know to avoid Odessa surely?
Observe: Has anyone here actually married a woman from Odessa or Kiev? (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=11208.msg160861#msg160861)
Foreign men are an industry in these places.
Most men don't find success there.
Why not look to Russia and meet normal women?
What is with this Ukraine fixation?
Why members of RUA still flock like lost sheep to Odessa and Kiev is beyond me........ guys are not marrying women from there. That was ten years ago. Hello? Everyone is mostly in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan now.
Stuff changes.
In my view, Ukraine is done. The action now is elsewhere.
Probably a good topic starter. I'll do it tomorrow unless someone beats me to it....
Pain in the arse with all that visa shite.
Manny,...... Long time no hear or see.
Nothing about the promoting of the report or the advertising of the match service has been independent. Your business partnership is completely obvious......lying and denying only keeps bringing more attention to the arrangement.
Both of you need "us" to keep this website popping up on the search engines. Why bother with the hide and seek?
Eldanes, you have been at this stuff long enough to know to avoid Odessa surely?
Observe: Has anyone here actually married a woman from Odessa or Kiev? (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=11208.msg160861#msg160861)
Foreign men are an industry in these places.
Most men don't find success there.
Why not look to Russia and meet normal women?
What is with this Ukraine fixation?
Why members of RUA still flock like lost sheep to Odessa and Kiev is beyond me........ guys are not marrying women from there now. That was ten years ago. Read what people write here. Hello? Everyone is mostly in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan now.
Stuff changes.
In my view, Ukraine is done (apart from far flung villages). The action now is elsewhere.
Probably a good topic starter. I'll do it tomorrow unless someone beats me to it....
Nothing about the promoting of the report or the advertising of the match service has been independent. Your business partnership is completely obvious......lying and denying only keeps bringing more attention to the arrangement.
Both of you need "us" to keep this website popping up on the search engines. Why bother with the hide and seek?
I am not going to back through this crap with you. If you can't be bothered to read then I can't be bothered to pander to your sloth. However I will not accept you impugning me when you can find the matters covered before, suffice it to say that you are wrong and that if you repeat incorrect assertions then it is you who will be spreading untruths.
Apart from anything else you have not even cottoned on to the fact that there is no 'both' of us. I do not advertise on this website, never have done.
There's some stuff you need to catch up on before you go round making accusations that make you look like a bt of a twat.
Of course if you suffer the same issues as Eldanes above then you also need to do some work on the critical reading, it will be a big help to you when you are, at some time in the future, in a position to do that which you fantasise about at the moment.
Foreign men are an industry in these places.
Most men don't find success there.
Why not look to Russia and meet normal women?
What is with this Ukraine fixation?
In my view, Ukraine is done (apart from far flung villages). The action now is elsewhere.
Pain in the arse with all that visa shite.What is a Russian visa? A few days in the mail and £100 or so? Is that so hard?
What is with this Ukraine fixation?
What is with this Ukraine fixation?
In this particular case it seems to be variation of Münchausen syndrome in MOB.
Pain in the arse with all that visa shite.What is a Russian visa? A few days in the mail and £100 or so? Is that so hard?
Manny, you probably forgot the part about filling out all that pesky paperwork? or finding someone to "invite " you? (:)
I suppose you refer to the Münchausen syndrome in regards to this German nobleman, who purportedly told many fantastic and impossible stories about himself (i.e this time not about Münchausen but the MOB) and not the psychiatric factitious disorder. ;D
Münchausen syndrome is a type of factitious disorder, in which a person repeatedly acts as if he has a physical or mental disorder when, in truth, he has caused the symptoms. People with factitious disorders act this way because of an inner need to be seen as scammed or taken adantage by FSU women, not to achieve a concrete benefit, such as marriage or engagement with FSU woman. They are even willing to undergo painful and timewasting membership with Anastasia.com in order to get the sympathy and special attention from people who are truly seeking real realationshp with FSUW. Some will secretively scam themselves to cause signs of financial loss or emotional abuse.
Which mean our primary goal should actually be to crush the hype about FSU in order to make an impact on the ever growing misconception about beauty and these marvellous creatures they promote in FSU.
Bottom line here is this:
Whilst I absolutely do not condone dishonest business practices it is the buyer's choices that lead to the unhappy outcomes. All that you or anyone else has to do to avoid problems is to think about what you are doing.
Münchausen syndrome is a type of factitious disorder, in which a person repeatedly acts as if he has a physical or mental disorder when, in truth, he has caused the symptoms. People with factitious disorders act this way because of an inner need to be seen as scammed or taken adantage by FSU women, not to achieve a concrete benefit, such as marriage or engagement with FSU woman. They are even willing to undergo painful and timewasting membership with Anastasia.com in order to get the sympathy and special attention from people who are truly seeking real realationshp with FSUW. Some will secretively scam themselves to cause signs of financial loss or emotional abuse.
So, if this is your analysis of men (or perhaps this is your anlysis of me) then I suppose you also have step by step instructions of how to understand these mavelous, but complicated, machines and perhaps even access to the wholeseller.
I am sure you could make a few quid if you could introduce us guys to some seriously attractive ladies who were not in it for the adventure but for a serious relationship until dead do us apart and not until the coffer is empty.
Münchausen syndrome is a type of factitious disorder, in which a person repeatedly acts as if he has a physical or mental disorder when, in truth, he has caused the symptoms. People with factitious disorders act this way because of an inner need to be seen as scammed or taken adantage by FSU women, not to achieve a concrete benefit, such as marriage or engagement with FSU woman. They are even willing to undergo painful and timewasting membership with Anastasia.com in order to get the sympathy and special attention from people who are truly seeking real realationshp with FSUW. Some will secretively scam themselves to cause signs of financial loss or emotional abuse.
So, if this is your analysis of men (or perhaps this is your anlysis of me) then I suppose you also have step by step instructions of how to understand these mavelous, but complicated, machines and perhaps even access to the wholeseller.
I am sure you could make a few quid if you could introduce us guys to some seriously attractive ladies who were not in it for the adventure but for a serious relationship until dead do us apart and not until the coffer is empty.
Andrew, I am still a "new guy" here and I figured it all out easily a long time ago.
YOU are PLM and everybody already knows it!
Yeesh!
P.S. Should I post the links to the proof within this website again?
So, if this is your analysis of men (or perhaps this is your anlysis of me) then I suppose you also have step by step instructions of how to understand these mavelous, but complicated, machines and perhaps even access to the wholeseller.
Just you :biggrin: and solely based on what you posted in this thread in last few days.
There is no instructions but basic common sense should intervene with wasting time on Anastasia.I am sure you could make a few quid if you could introduce us guys to some seriously attractive ladies who were not in it for the adventure but for a serious relationship until dead do us apart and not until the coffer is empty.
If after 20+ trips you failed to meet simple minded, uncomplicated and honest girls in FSU then problem is within yourself and unlikely anyone can help you with meeting right girl.
I am terrified. I have been caught out. I thought I hid the fact well enough and hoped that nobody would spot that I am a sex-tourist and human trafficker.Münchausen syndrome is a type of factitious disorder, in which a person repeatedly acts as if he has a physical or mental disorder when, in truth, he has caused the symptoms. People with factitious disorders act this way because of an inner need to be seen as scammed or taken adantage by FSU women, not to achieve a concrete benefit, such as marriage or engagement with FSU woman. They are even willing to undergo painful and timewasting membership with Anastasia.com in order to get the sympathy and special attention from people who are truly seeking real realationshp with FSUW. Some will secretively scam themselves to cause signs of financial loss or emotional abuse.
So, if this is your analysis of men (or perhaps this is your anlysis of me) then I suppose you also have step by step instructions of how to understand these mavelous, but complicated, machines and perhaps even access to the wholeseller.
I am sure you could make a few quid if you could introduce us guys to some seriously attractive ladies who were not in it for the adventure but for a serious relationship until dead do us apart and not until the coffer is empty.
Finding a serious women is not that difficult! Read your own posts, you basically travelled as a sex tourist and are now pissed you could not find a women :duh: It takes work real work. Sometimes even with serious women, its not the right fit. Did you get scammed, maybe so. Life is full of them, most people learn adjust and move on.
It is only as hard as you make it. Feeling sorry for yourself and making excuses for your failures will get you right where you are. No where!
FSU girls know better than Westernes.
She was written off almost before I went to Odessa. I had nothing to loose as I have friends in Odessa and Kherson so I too the chance and was just well prepared from previous trips. See I am no stinggy person and take what ever life has to offer. So if a lady feels happy having "stolen" 500 USD from me by all means bear with her. I look at it as if finding out the lady is a cheat and has bad moral judgement for USD 500 is cheaper than spending mony on passport, language courses, ticket, visas etc.... well, I am sure you know what I mean.
She was written off almost before I went to Odessa. I had nothing to loose as I have friends in Odessa and Kherson so I too the chance and was just well prepared from previous trips. See I am no stinggy person and take what ever life has to offer. So if a lady feels happy having "stolen" 500 USD from me by all means bear with her. I look at it as if finding out the lady is a cheat and has bad moral judgement for USD 500 is cheaper than spending mony on passport, language courses, ticket, visas etc.... well, I am sure you know what I mean.
Elandes I'll spare the PC approach and call BS on the above. It is blatantly obvious you were deeply infatuated with this woman without even stepping foot on the plane. You seen those titties in the photos and fell in "lust" before meeting her. You are not the first and wont be the last.
As for the second statement in bold above, let's be honest, you would have paid for all had she not sent you the "dear john" letter. Even after the making the trip and being taken for a ride your friend was still arranging for this girl, whom you claim was written off before you travelled, to acquire visas and language courses. If she was as evil as you make her out to be she had the opportunity to milk you for much more yet she chose to let you off the hook.
Elandes you honestly come off as an intelligent guy. I am by no means trying to talk down or belittle you. As an outsider with no emotional ties to the matter it does read as though you had a whole lot to do with how this whole scenario played out.
There is a difference between being generous, non stingy as you defined it, and not having the courage to just say NO. After day one it was your choice not to say no. You chose to partake in the festivities. I would say the attached image had a lot more to do with you empowering these women to take you for a ride than anything else.
Elandes your posts are very very educational for a the shy nieve readership planning their first trip. It takes courage to post train wrecks and for sure this qualifies.
Score at the end of this game:
Clever lady using gifts god gave her(home team) +1
Common sense(visiting team) _0
Eldanes, your issues are about how you think (or do not do so) and so you have the same problems wherever you turn.
Learn to think critically, learn to analyse what you read and to fit what you read into the context of your needs and goals and, of course, your existing knowledge and you will do better.
That is why your railing against one or other service providers is pointless.
And yes, because companies who obtain their stock from different parts of the world are selling to the same kind of men, largely in the US but also in other countries, you will see similar offers, similar words, similar fantasies being sold - I can hardly imagine how you could possibly think otherwise.
Everything 'bad' that happened to you happened because you chose for it to do so.
By the way Eldanes, how do you think that RUA covers its costs and pays people to help you come to terms with your issues?
Advertising.
When you block ads on RUA not only are you making kittens cry but you are also stealing from the site's proprietors - yes stealing because the only price for using this forum is that you see ads on the pages. Those ads provide the revenues that enable your activities.
One form and the agency do the rest in with their fee. Falling off a log couldn't be easier. However, penny-watching MOBsters tried to do it all themselves and spend ages collecting stuff, filling forms, and writing people to save a $50 agency fee. I think that's where the rumour came from that a visa to Russia was in some way hard. Give an agency an extra $50, fill in one form, yawn, and watch it drop through your mailbox a few days later.
One thing. The last time I saw the terms 'mongers' it was on a sex tourism site where the term is quite common, along with 'hobbyist'. I have never seen 'monger' used on a site devoted, ostensibly at least, to finding a wife.
Are you entirely sure that you are on the right site?
I earlier on in this thread mentioned I had a lady removed from AW.
I would like to provide some back ground information so things are pu in their right perspective. I am not looking for simpathy or advice. I am here with this matter for educational purposes.
I have stated several times that am I looking for birds with big boobs. In the western world we are talking about a D cup and up, yet still a pair of nicely planted boobs that are not hanging too far down south. A nice looking bird not too pretty; just a 6-8 will do. A bird who is simple minded, uncomplicated and honest.
I am also the sort of person that even if there are some doggy stuf going on I will give the person the bennefit of the doubt until I can prove differently. This may explain my actions to a certain degree.
I found this bird below on Anastasia (These photos are from our meeting in Odessa and one of them has bopth Tatiana and myself on it to prove I did actually meet the bird).
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/98050088/Tati.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/98050088/Tati%20and%20Michael.jpgObviously, interested as at first sight she looked physically as what I was after however as you can see form the following correspondance with the customer service something was not quite right.
Message 1/41 Jun 16, 2009 03:36 p.m. Michael
Hello,
Hope you can resolve this little mystery i have got with 37464 and I hope you can do that in confidence as I do not want to ruin any chances with the lady should the translator be the crook and on the other hand I do not want to spend time and money going to Odessa if this is just yet another girl/agency game making money from men.
1. She gave the following information during our first communication.
65065 Ukraine Odessa
ul. Generala Petrova, X
X Tatiana
8093 90 9XX XX
Now, my interpreter in Ukraine phoned the number and the lady who answered the mobile was very confused when she was asked if she was Tatiana and gave another name only after 10-15 seconds she realised she was Tatiana when my interpreter told who she was.
I suspect the number is not for the lady but for the interpreter and that she did not give the mobile number of the lady when I requested this.
Can you confirm the correct address and mobile number of the lady?
2. In the 2nd answer from Tatiana she mentioned that she had spend the weekend with her parents.
When my interpreter and I phoned the before mentioned telephone number last evening (and I have this conversation recorded if you should which to listen to the conversation) I asked what she had been doing in the weekend. She told she had been to discos with her friends??!! So we got two different occupations durring the weekend.
To me it sounds that either the lady is not serious and honestly interested in finding someone and is just helping a translator friend in the agency "Odessa ladies" because she happens to be attractive or god know what they are up to. Could be another greedy translator wanting to get another translation fee from a quick translation/letter she made up.
Many thanks,
Michael
-----------------------------
Message 2/41 Jun 16, 2009 03:53 p.m. Olga, manager
Hello Michael!
We will check this situation. As soon as we receive any information we will inform you.
Best wishes,
Olga
-----------------------------
Message 3/41 Jun 17, 2009 09:21 a.m. Olga, manager
Hello Michael!
We checked the address and phone number of lady and it's right.
Best wishes,
Olga
-----------------------------
Message 4/41 Aug 14, 2009 11:59 a.m. Michael
Hello,
I know it has been a while with this lady, but I have actually no been able to establish contact with her on the phone number she has given since you confirmed the number to be correct.
In fact for the last two-three weeks the number is no longer in service.
Could you please get the lady to confirm if is is indeed serious and interested before I am going to Odessa and get a telephone number where my translator can arrange our meeting with her?
Many thanks,
Michael
---------------------------------
Message 5/41 Aug 14, 2009 02:24 p.m. Svetlana, manager
Michael,
Number is correct and lady is interested in our service. If you need we can give you phone number of our local agency, staff from the agency will help you to arrange meeting.
Best wishes,
Svetlana, manager.
--------------------------------
Message 6/41 Sep 15, 2009 01:59 p.m. Michael
Hello,
I am honestly very very sorry having to bring this lady to your attention again.
I have now more than 10 times since you confirmed the lady was indeed interested in YOUR services phoned this lady from early morning to early evening and have not even once managed to speak to her.
I have purchased my airline ticket, taken my holiday and arranged accomodation for 12 of October 09 yet I am currently not going as it seems most ladies are not very serious.
Can you please see if you at all can establish why this woman is still on these web pages being quite attractive yet has been on your site for about 8 months and still on your site? It would explain why she is there as never answer her own messages or accepts telephone calls my guess would be she is just an agency teaser.
In fact you have previously given me the telephone number for her agency manager whom I phoned about two weeks ago. May I tell you that this manager is VERY rude and has absolutly no interest in anything but making money which she actually confirmed as well as telling me that I was wasting her time and money speaking to her when I did not have any confirmed date when I would be in Odessa as she would need to plan her time for my translations. She would not hear of I bringing my own translator.
Well, as I said sorry for being a pest.
Michael
-----------------------------------
Message 7/41 Sep 15, 2009 02:49 p.m. Svetlana, manager
Michael,
We will clear this situation and will inform you about any results.
Best wishes,
Svetlana, manager.
------------------------------------
Message 8/41 Sep 17, 2009 01:40 p.m. Svetlana, manager
Michael,
We contacted our local agencies and they told us that you contacted them but you asked to arrange meeting with ladies rom other agencies. One lady was from their agency but you didn't corresponde with her and she is not interested in you.
Best wishes,
Svetlana, manager.
------------------------------------
Message 9/41 Sep 17, 2009 03:19 p.m. Michael
Hello,
That is absolutly not correct.
As you know my telephone system records all my telephone conversations so I will find the recording for the conversation I had with the lady as well as with the profile manager and send to you.
Again more lies.
------------------------------------
Message 10/41 Sep 17, 2009 03:30 p.m. Michael
Your know what....
The information you refer to sounds more like a conversation I had yesterday with KNK Diamonds. That conversation has absolutly nothing to do with the communication I an persuing with the lady 37464 who are with Odessalady
+38063139XXXX
Svetlana, manager.
I think you are refering to the conversation I had with Kate at KNK Diamonds which, by the way, is also wrong. It appears Kate did not understand a word of what I told her in the end of our conversation. I also will forward you that telephone conversation I had with Kate as I will with the two recordings relating to lady 37464.
Or perhaps Odessa ladies and KNK diamonds are one and the same agency?
---------------------------------
Message 11/41 Sep 17, 2009 04:04 p.m. Svetlana, manager
Michael,
No matter what we are clarifying question regarding your meeting with lady 37464 with our local agency.
If you want to meet other ladies write us and we will give you phone number of local agencies they belong to.
Please send us your conversation with Kate at KNK Diamonds.
Odessa ladies and KNK diamonds are not one and the same agency.
Best wishes,
Svetlana, manager.
--------------------------------------
Message 12/41 Sep 17, 2009 04:15 p.m. Michael Lindhardt
Svetlana,
The conversations file is too large for this ticket. I have emailed them to your customer service email address for your attention.
---------------------------------------
Message 15/41 Sep 18, 2009 02:03 p.m. Svetlana, manager
Michael,
We listened your conversations. We will contact our local agency regarding this conversations (Svetlana-Odessa ladies).
--------------------------------------
Message 17/41 Sep 18, 2009 03:30 p.m. Michael
Hello Svetlana,
I believe that after you have listen to the conversations relating to Svetlana/Tatiana that you apriciate my concern regarding this situation. At least I belive you understand why I got very upset and why I have continusley been telling you that Tatiana, and perhaps Odessa ladies, is/are not serious in this business.
You see, when I go to Ukraine for say 1 week I spend money on the trip, meetings, food, accomodation which is all fine but I do also spend 7 days of my holiday and loose my salery for 1 week with is MUCh more than what I am spending by going to Ukraine. The ladies and the agencies has absolutly no understanding that in the West our time is MUCH more worth than the money we spend on a trip. For you going to a restaurent with a western man is for him to show he has got money. But that money is much less than the money he is loosing if he was to coock a meal at home for the lady. So when a western man offers to cook at home for a lady it is in fact worth much more than going to a restaurent and shows MUCh more commitment towards a woman than bringing her to a restaurent - which any man can do with very little effort.
That is what pisses off us western men. Yeah, I know that was a little side track but I think it is important for you and your colleagues to know our way of thinking so you do not mistake "greed", as you call it in FSU, with something which in fact is of much more value in our eyes.
Thanks for listening to me :-)
Michael
--------------------------------------
Message 18/41 Sep 18, 2009 04:19 p.m. Svetlana, manager
Michael,
We understand you and will do our best to solve this problem.
Svetlana, manager.
-------------------------------------
Message 19/41 Sep 20, 2009 03:14 p.m. Svetlana, manager
Michael,
Our local agency wrote us that lady 37464 will be able to talk to you today 9-10 p.m (Kiev time).
Please contact her and inform us about your talk. Were you able to talk to her or not. It will be better if you call her with someone who will translate your conversation.
Best wishes,
Svetlana, manager.
------------------------------------
Message 20/41 Sep 20, 2009 10:45 p.m. Michael
Hello,
You told tatiana would be available between 21:00 and 22:00 on the 20/09/09.
She was however, after aprox. 12 mins of conversation she suddently had an apointment and had to leave. I mean if she had agreed with you to be available for one hour how can she suddently have another angagement in the same laps of time?
Silly excuse in my opinion and another example of that I suspect she is a coy for her agency. Also she did not want to use my translator but only one from the agency which usually is a good sign on co-operation of agency/profile manager and the lady. Hope you agree with me.
I have sent the conversation file as email to your service center email address because it's too big for the ticket for you own judgement.
Michael
-----------------------------------
Message 21/41 Sep 21, 2009 03:37 p.m. Svetlana, manager
Michael,
We will listen your file (conversation) and will decide what to do.
Regards,
Svetlana.
-----------------------------------
Message 23/41 Oct 10, 2009 05:35 p.m. Michael
Hello,
Just want to let you know, that ever since last "arranged telephone conversation" it has been impossible to establish contact. The phone is answered but hung up without anything said.
Many thanks,
Michael
-----------------------------------
Message 24/41 Oct 12, 2009 01:58 p.m. Svetlana, manager
Michael,
What number do you mean? Is it number if the agency?
Svetlana, manager.
-----------------------------------
Message 25/41 Oct 12, 2009 11:57 p.m. Michael
Hi Svetlana,
No, it is not the number for Svetlana the manager I was talking about but the number for Tatiana
8093 90 9XX XX.
I spoke to Svetlana (which is apparently not the person who answered the phone as she told me her name was not Svetlana) and she told that she will set up the appointment with Tatiana. My friends in Kherson did phone 8093 90 9XX XX several times to arrange a meeting but they also did not have any luck and finally they phoned the number I have for the profile manager who apparently was very aware of the problmes that apparently everybody has in getting some sort of contact on the before mentioned number.
Now the profile manager has set up a meeting for tomorrow the 13/10/09 11:00 so lets see what that brings.
Thanks for you help on this matter. I know it is mostly not your companys fault all these things most mostly the satelite agencies who " :censored: up".
Many thanks from Kiev... On the way to Odessa..
Michael
---------------------------------------------
Message 26/41 Oct 13, 2009 02:07 p.m. Svetlana, manager
Ok, Michael.
If you have any problems, please, contact us at one for us to solve problem while you are in lady's city.
Best wishes,
Svetlana, manager.
--------------------------------------------
Message 30/41 Oct 19, 2009 01:35 p.m. Svetlana, manager
Michael,
Thank you for photos. We are glad that everything was fine. Will you continue your relations with lady?
Best wishes,
Svetlana, manager.
--------------------------------------------
Message 31/41 Oct 19, 2009 02:10 p.m. Michael
Hello Svetlana,
Yes, we are working on it. We are currently discussing/arranging to get Tatayana a International passport and she will be taking English lessons starting this week with my friend Elvira (who has been teaching English before) in Odessa.
We are also planning for a trip to Denmark to celebrate Christmas and after Christmas we are planning to go to Great Britain.
I am going to agree with Tatyana this week for us to remove our profiles and will of course in due cause advise you of this.
Best regards and many thanks,
Michael
-----------------------------------------
Message 32/41 Oct 19, 2009 02:21 p.m. Svetlana, manager
Michael,
We wish you good luck!!! If you have any questions or problems you always can write us, we will be glad to help you.
Svetlana.
Eldanes, I met Tatiana about 3 years ago. She was the very first woman I went to meet in Odessa. This girl was nothing more than a pro-dater!!!! I finally got the clue after 4 days of expensive sushi restaurants and Karaoki bars, and her taxi scam that was pulled on me. I finally pulled the plug when she asked me to buy her shoes for $300.00!!!!
Eldanes, I met Tatiana about 3 years ago. She was the very first woman I went to meet in Odessa. This girl was nothing more than a pro-dater!!!! I finally got the clue after 4 days of expensive sushi restaurants and Karaoki bars, and her taxi scam that was pulled on me. I finally pulled the plug when she asked me to buy her shoes for $300.00!!!!
Hammer, Congratulations! It took you 4 days and you can be proud of your education. Hopefully at least you went to some museums and walked down or perhaps up depending on your condition the Potemkin steps. AvHdB
Eldanes, I met Tatiana about 3 years ago. She was the very first woman I went to meet in Odessa. This girl was nothing more than a pro-dater!!!! I finally got the clue after 4 days of expensive sushi restaurants and Karaoki bars, and her taxi scam that was pulled on me. I finally pulled the plug when she asked me to buy her shoes for $300.00!!!!
Hammer, Congratulations! It took you 4 days and you can be proud of your education. Hopefully at least you went to some museums and walked down or perhaps up depending on your condition the Potemkin steps. AvHdB
Yeah, ended up playing tourist and actually had a better time of it than if I had continued with her. LOL
Elandes that would be where we differ in opinion. I agree the problem is generic but not with the agency. IMHO the problem outlined was with a guy ignoring all red flags and falling in love with a picture. You got caught thinking with the little brain. Big titties which you appear to have quite the perversion for we're the ultimate downfall.
Hi welder,
Thanks for the comments. All taken onboard and no bad feelings. Mind you I did, as the very first part of the AW complaint, post mention I was not looking for advice nor sympathy. I was posting this for educational purpose. It does not apply to any particular agency as the problem is generic on any agency.
Elandes that would be where we differ in opinion. I agree the problem is generic but not with the agency. IMHO the problem outlined was with a guy ignoring all red flags and falling in love with a picture. You got caught thinking with the little brain. Big titties which you appear to have quite the perversion for we're the ultimate downfall.
Hi welder,
Thanks for the comments. All taken onboard and no bad feelings. Mind you I did, as the very first part of the AW complaint, post mention I was not looking for advice nor sympathy. I was posting this for educational purpose. It does not apply to any particular agency as the problem is generic on any agency.
Eldanes, I met Tatiana about 3 years ago. She was the very first woman I went to meet in Odessa. This girl was nothing more than a pro-dater!!!! I finally got the clue after 4 days of expensive sushi restaurants and Karaoki bars, and her taxi scam that was pulled on me. I finally pulled the plug when she asked me to buy her shoes for $300.00!!!!
Seems another forum has got the gist of what AnastasiaWeb is all about [Mod edit: forum censors are here for a reason and are not to be circumvented with asterixes]
Interestingly the moderators on this forum totally disagree to what the remaining world thinks.
Seems another forum has got the gist of what AnastasiaWeb is all about [Mod edit: forum censors are here for a reason and are not to be circumvented with asterixes]
Interestingly the moderators on this forum totally disagree to what the remaining world thinks.
There are so many free sites to meet a woman from Russia or Ukraine. Do not spend your money and time for this fake service.
There are so many free sites to meet a woman from Russia or Ukraine. Do not spend your money and time for this fake service.
Kristina, you would be doing many guys a favor by listing these free sites. Either on your blog or here.*
Anastasia no longer lists the age range preferences of the girls. I think its a step in the right direction. Removes some of false hope from those who are out of their league going after a young girl who says she's looking for guys up to age 70.
One thing I noted. A couple of years ago the competition prizes were Ford Fiestas and the like. Now they are on Mercedes.
Looks like even getting girls to chat to guys is getting hard now.
By the way, go look at the profiles of the guys.
You lot look like a bunch of axe murderers and descendents of incestuous marriages.
One thing I noted. A couple of years ago the competition prizes were Ford Fiestas and the like. Now they are on Mercedes.
Looks like even getting girls to chat to guys is getting hard now.
By the way, go look at the profiles of the guys.
You lot look like a bunch of axe murderers and descendents of incestuous marriages.
AJ, at least one of the businesses you note does NOT pay anyone to chat. To the best of my knlwedge Anastasia does not pay, but they DO offer prizes and the inflation there is clear.
Are you sure yo are not getting mixed up with sex chat and webcam stuff? A somewhat different busi´ness.
AJ, at least one of the businesses you note does NOT pay anyone to chat. To the best of my knlwedge Anastasia does not pay, but they DO offer prizes and the inflation there is clear.
I think it's the opposite. The MOB business in Ukraine is so lucrative that it is also extremely competitive. The better funded agencies can afford to give away expensive prizes in order to attract the most beautiful girls to their sites.
Sashathecat it is obvious from the promotional activity that even if some women in some agencies were paid to chat that this is not the generality. If otherwise were true then such promotional effort would not be required or be promoted in this website. One might still question whether incentivising single women in this manner is appropriate but is very different from a general policy to pay women.
It is good that your wife was able to distance herself from working in what she knew was a fraudulent environment.
Sashathecat it is obvious from the promotional activity that even if some women in some agencies were paid to chat that this is not the generality.
Sashathecat it is obvious from the promotional activity that even if some women in some agencies were paid to chat that this is not the generality.
Let me shed a little light on the operation. How do you explain the login for women to chat that is hosted by Anastasia? This is the working login for women.
AJ, at least one of the businesses you note does NOT pay anyone to chat. To the best of my knlwedge Anastasia does not pay, but they DO offer prizes and the inflation there is clear.
Are you sure yo are not getting mixed up with sex chat and webcam stuff? A somewhat different busi´ness.
Sashathecat it is obvious from the promotional activity that even if some women in some agencies were paid to chat that this is not the generality. If otherwise were true then such promotional effort would not be required or be promoted in this website. One might still question whether incentivising single women in this manner is appropriate but is very different from a general policy to pay women.
It is good that your wife was able to distance herself from working in what she knew was a fraudulent environment.
AJ, at least one of the businesses you note does NOT pay anyone to chat. To the best of my knlwedge Anastasia does not pay, but they DO offer prizes and the inflation there is clear.
Are you sure yo are not getting mixed up with sex chat and webcam stuff? A somewhat different busi´ness.
Sashathecat it is obvious from the promotional activity that even if some women in some agencies were paid to chat that this is not the generality. If otherwise were true then such promotional effort would not be required or be promoted in this website. One might still question whether incentivising single women in this manner is appropriate but is very different from a general policy to pay women.
It is good that your wife was able to distance herself from working in what she knew was a fraudulent environment.
Sorry, please go to Ukraine , visit feeder agencies and get back to those of us who know andrew.
Until then ,your expertise is lacking in this one area, and you should be thankful for it?
Instead of telling others *how* things are, when frankly, you simply do not know.
If a girl is chatting she is paid to do so.period.
If you were to find one exception, then that's what it is the one exception.
For you to extrapolate that chat girls are not generally paid to chat,,
because of some promotions by a company that routinely practices cupable deniability in all its practices.. is really amusing. :laugh:
Now do all girls chat? heavens no!!
There are thousands and thousands of profiles per city..
but all girls that chat, are paid to.
They are also paid to write letters and emails when not busy in chat.
Do the agencies have promotions for all kinds of reasons? of course.
Some of which would be to try and show legitimacy where there isn't much.
Or to draw in new talent. or simply more profiles.
but the chat girls are not worried about such promotions, that i can assure you.
I wonder Andrew-
Do you know anybody that won a car? it is Ukraine, you seem to know this was actually a legit promotion that someone won? (that wasn't a cousin, or lover , or connected to some manager?)hahahaha
but i'll give that perhaps a few promotions might be legit?
I have no idea why you'd think the women that pop up, for chat are not paid..but you seem bent on proving its not true.
odd really.
You have several people telling you, that know first hand.
What possible reason could any of us have for telling you inaccurate information?
We have no vested interest.
How about you? :D
AJ I fully understand that some people can only 'know' that which they personally experience. If you are one of those then, sincerely, you have my sympathy for living with a tremendous handicap. Most of us are not so challenged and learn in many different ways.
Personal experience is almost the worst way to learn.
I know that a company advertising a competition for girls who engage with the guys is unlikely to be also paying them-at least not the girls aimed at in the promotion because it makes no sense to do so.
I also know that the value of the offering for the same purpose has increased significantly in a relatively short time; thus I know that it is likely harder to get the girls to engage.
The next step is likely to be a general policy of direct incentives but probably not cash and then will come generally available cash payments.
Are some affiliated agencies paying girls - of course they are we have known that for a decade. Will more Pay? Of course they will.
ANT - if the FSU based mail order bride business was not in its final stages then this discussion would not be taking place. As we know there is no shortage of men wanting to look at at 'chat' with pretty foreign girls. Much fewer mn wanting to get on a plane and almost none who complete the process. On the other side we know very few women want to leave their own country.
If the main output of a business is various scams then I suggest that the business is pretty much finished from the perspective of guys actually seeking a wife as opposed to guys paying for [edit] fodder.
Of course ANT if you are part of the latter group then from your perspective things have never been better. :-)
.... I can confirm myself--I have also seen it first hand --...
... Now I have been in Ukraine( are you ready to concede that yet?) and you have not. On the topic at hand now--I think you will find there are quite a few in chat who will verify that I know plenty on this topic.Most specifically I would point out that my knowledge has not come from meeting one girls or seeing one agency.It was gathered over a period of time(long before I ever came near a forum) in meeting many people-- from girls,interpreters ,agency owners ,photographers ,promoters and others with an interest in the topic..
Sasha and AJ ( and me) have all been at pains to explain our case politely for the benefit of all her now and in the future.
All of us--have been in Ukraine quite a few times-- and I am certain when you need factual advice in the future the help will be there.
MissAmeno, with respect, it does not matter if a bloke even owns a passport, it is about the ability to understand what one sees from ALL sources.
While I DO think that Jay is exaggerating for effect and self aggrandizement I am certain that women are getting paid for chatting with blokes on web cams. It ain't in doubt. ...
That's about it but to suggest that 'a vast majority' are paid fraudsters is simply not correct and is misleading.
It is one thing to tell people that there is an issue with scamming and to point out how to protect against it but it is another thing entirely to tell people that the chances of ever speaking to or meeting a genuine person through an MOB agency is wrong and, IMHO dishonest and I have no idea why folks would try to mislead in this manner.
MissAmeno, as you may recall I was rather unsure that Jay had done as he claimed. Nothing has changed that opinion.
In the end though this site is so full of fantasists that another one more, or less, makes no great difference.
For myself I take folks as I find them and assign credibility based upon actions, or in this more ethereal world the quality of what they say, the accuracy when it can be assessed and the quality of insight bought to the table. In part that is why assigning credibility based upon claimed presence at a general location at some undisclosed time means very little. A few years ago, elsewhere, I wrote a travel report of a visit to the US Antarctic Base - McMurdo Station. It was all a fiction from start to finish and included photos recollections and characters. Nobody queried me. Since then we have read trip reports about guys going to the FSU that turned out to be complete works of fiction.
So, we just look at the quality of the insights, it is about all we can do.
MissAmeno, as you may recall I was rather unsure that Jay had done as he claimed. Nothing has changed that opinion.
In the end though this site is so full of fantasists that another one more, or less, makes no great difference.
For myself I take folks as I find them and assign credibility based upon actions, or in this more ethereal world the quality of what they say, the accuracy when it can be assessed and the quality of insight bought to the table. In part that is why assigning credibility based upon claimed presence at a general location at some undisclosed time means very little. A few years ago, elsewhere, I wrote a travel report of a visit to the US Antarctic Base - McMurdo Station. It was all a fiction from start to finish and included photos recollections and characters. Nobody queried me. Since then we have read trip reports about guys going to the FSU that turned out to be complete works of fiction.
So, we just look at the quality of the insights, it is about all we can do.
MissAmeno, with respect, it does not matter if a bloke even owns a passport, it is about the ability to understand what one sees from ALL sources.
While I DO think that Jay is exaggerating for effect and self aggrandizement I am certain that women are getting paid for chatting with blokes on web cams. It ain't in doubt. ...
Andrew, I am just curious how much he is exaggerating for effect and self aggrandizement :biggrin:
Would I really be that much of the mark suspecting he actually visited Ukraine only once or not at all and all his aggrandizement founded on his keyboard detective agency? :evilgrin0002:
That's about it but to suggest that 'a vast majority' are paid fraudsters is simply not correct and is misleading.
It is one thing to tell people that there is an issue with scamming and to point out how to protect against it but it is another thing entirely to tell people that the chances of ever speaking to or meeting a genuine person through an MOB agency is almost non-existent is wrong and, IMHO dishonest and I have no idea why folks would try to mislead in this manner.
The day that Andrew stops thinking and starts taking advice from Internet wackos, who can't do any better than reposting what they've read, is the day that I'll eat my hat.
to understand why what you are saying is twaddle.
Save yourself some embarrassment, read what I wrote, have a look at some promotional material used by aggregators on their female niche sites and then get back to me. When you have seen the bigger picture you will understand better.
d.
There is in fact much more than has been posted-- as chat regulars will testify --these guys and others who DO KNOW-- have talked extensively about it in chat( contrary to the "fews" opinions the "they" on the forum do not occupy much time in reality-- and never have).
Perhaps we ought to rely more heavily on the "chat regulars," irrespective of whether they've been anywhere or not, are burned out on the Lord, got enough oxygen in utero, are flaming misogynists or even have normal brain wiring.
AJ I fully understand that some people can only 'know' that which they personally experience. If you are one of those then, sincerely, you have my sympathy for living with a tremendous handicap. Most of us are not so challenged and learn in many different ways.
Personal experience is almost the worst way to learn.
That's about it but to suggest that 'a vast majority' are paid fraudsters is simply not correct and is misleading.
It is one thing to tell people that there is an issue with scamming and to point out how to protect against it but it is another thing entirely to tell people that the chances of ever speaking to or meeting a genuine person through an MOB agency is almost non-existent is wrong and, IMHO dishonest and I have no idea why folks would try to mislead in this manner.
Thanks Tom.
Jay. When you tell me that the vast majority of women on MOB sites are getting paid then I know that you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
I don't care what you think you saw or what you think you know because the base proposition is not credible. At the least you are exaggerating at the most you are simply very, very credulous. If that is hard for you to grasp then read about the Pareto Principle, it will help you to understand why what you are saying is twaddle.
Perhaps we ought to rely more heavily on the "chat regulars," irrespective of whether they've been anywhere or not, are burned out on the Lord, got enough oxygen in utero, are flaming misogynists or even have normal brain wiring.There is in fact much more than has been posted-- as chat regulars will testify --these guys and others who DO KNOW-- have talked extensively about it in chat( contrary to the "fews" opinions the "they" on the forum do not occupy much time in reality-- and never have).
You're both welcome to my passport, do you question sashas? my wifes? his wifes?
MissAmeno, as you may recall I was rather unsure that Jay had done as he claimed. Nothing has changed that opinion.
In the end though this site is so full of fantasists that another one more, or less, makes no great difference.
For myself I take folks as I find them and assign credibility based upon actions, or in this more ethereal world the quality of what they say, the accuracy when it can be assessed and the quality of insight bought to the table. In part that is why assigning credibility based upon claimed presence at a general location at some undisclosed time means very little. A few years ago, elsewhere, I wrote a travel report of a visit to the US Antarctic Base - McMurdo Station. It was all a fiction from start to finish and included photos recollections and characters. Nobody queried me. Since then we have read trip reports about guys going to the FSU that turned out to be complete works of fiction.
So, we just look at the quality of the insights, it is about all we can do.
Hi Andrew,
I had not heard about fictitious trip reports before. Can you post the fake ones for the forum?
Thanks,
Lee
As it happens-- it seems that he was ther about 6/7 years ago-- hardly concurrent knowledge.
You're both welcome to my passport, do you question sashas? my wifes? his wifes?
AJ, I did not question your (or Sasha's, or wives) experience, I questioned Jay's experience and for a number of reasons (mainly irony :knit: ). Not that long ago Jay used to troll around forum questioning experience of several members and all because somewhere at the beginning of his participation on this forum his experience was questioned (again for a number of reasons and mainly because his views/opinions at a time made impression that he never been anywhere near Ukraine). His reaction to the fact that some had doubts in his credibility was ... err ... umm .... el_gueroish. He shouted long and loud (still does time to time) and on every possible corner how dare anyone to question his credibility but actually never posting/doing anything to comfirm when and how many times he visited Ukraine. Since those times he got into habit dismissing anything anyone says about Ukraine unless it is either in agreement with his own views/opinions or at least comes from someone who recently visited Ukraine. The amusement in this whole hogwash is how rapidly Jay's experience is growing for those 10 (or so) months that he participated on this forum. He went from someone who was looking for information and advice to an expert with extensive knowledge acquired at first hand from 'girls,interpreters ,agency owners ,photographers ,promoters and others'
Other thing that I find quiet interesting how conveniently he turned from my (his own experience) to our (collective experience between him, you, Sasha and other members that visited Ukraine).
AJ, don't let your attitude towards some members obscure the fact that one fool is attempting to ascribe your experience as his own. Most of his own experience is based not on first hand knowledge but by lifting the experiences of other forum members through reading and chat (AJ, you are one of those members).
You're both welcome to my passport, do you question sashas? my wifes? his wifes?
AJ, I did not question your (or Sasha's, or wives) experience, I questioned Jay's experience and for a number of reasons (mainly irony :knit: ). Not that long ago Jay used to troll around forum questioning experience of several members and all because somewhere at the beginning of his participation on this forum his experience was questioned (again for a number of reasons and mainly because his views/opinions at a time made impression that he never been anywhere near Ukraine). His reaction to the fact that some had doubts in his credibility was ... err ... umm .... el_gueroish. He shouted long and loud (still does time to time) and on every possible corner how dare anyone to question his credibility but actually never posting/doing anything to comfirm when and how many times he visited Ukraine. Since those times he got into habit dismissing anything anyone says about Ukraine unless it is either in agreement with his own views/opinions or at least comes from someone who recently visited Ukraine. The amusement in this whole hogwash is how rapidly Jay's experience is growing for those 10 (or so) months that he participated on this forum. He went from someone who was looking for information and advice to an expert with extensive knowledge acquired at first hand from 'girls,interpreters ,agency owners ,photographers ,promoters and others'
Other thing that I find quiet interesting how conveniently he turned from my (his own experience) to our (collective experience between him, you, Sasha and other members that visited Ukraine).
AJ, don't let your attitude towards some members obscure the fact that one fool is attempting to ascribe your experience as his own. Most of his own experience is based not on first hand knowledge but by lifting the experiences of other forum members through reading and chat (AJ, you are one of those members).
Other thing that I find quiet interesting how conveniently he turned from my (his own experience) to our (collective experience between him, you, Sasha and other members that visited Ukraine).
As it happens-- it seems that he was ther about 6/7 years ago-- hardly concurrent knowledge.
You have no idea when I was in Ukraine, how many times that I visited or the usage of "concurrent." You are very talented at harassing women, though; I will give you that.
You're both welcome to my passport, do you question sashas? my wifes? his wifes?
AJ, I did not question your (or Sasha's, or wives) experience, I questioned Jay's experience and for a number of reasons (mainly irony :knit: ). Not that long ago Jay used to troll around forum questioning experience of several members and all because somewhere at the beginning of his participation on this forum his experience was questioned (again for a number of reasons and mainly because his views/opinions at a time made impression that he never been anywhere near Ukraine). His reaction to the fact that some had doubts in his credibility was ... err ... umm .... el_gueroish. He shouted long and loud (still does time to time) and on every possible corner how dare anyone to question his credibility but actually never posting/doing anything to comfirm when and how many times he visited Ukraine. Since those times he got into habit dismissing anything anyone says about Ukraine unless it is either in agreement with his own views/opinions or at least comes from someone who recently visited Ukraine. The amusement in this whole hogwash is how rapidly Jay's experience is growing for those 10 (or so) months that he participated on this forum. He went from someone who was looking for information and advice to an expert with extensive knowledge acquired at first hand from 'girls,interpreters ,agency owners ,photographers ,promoters and others'
Other thing that I find quiet interesting how conveniently he turned from my (his own experience) to our (collective experience between him, you, Sasha and other members that visited Ukraine).
AJ, don't let your attitude towards some members obscure the fact that one fool is attempting to ascribe your experience as his own. Most of his own experience is based not on first hand knowledge but by lifting the experiences of other forum members through reading and chat (AJ, you are one of those members).
The fact andrew pretends to know about the chat centers set up in Ukraine
,the percentage of women paid to chat ,verse those that do it for free,,
is whats the most amusing.
All from his visit to HRB home office in Florida and other speculation .
(Did they pay for your trip Andrew?)
Listen Andrew, if you can't fathom the most basic of a companies maneuverings ,
and positioning themselves in the best light for marketing..
then there really is no point in this.
Your either just enjoy debate ,or daft.
You keep convincing yourself the economics dont match up..?
that's laughable and frankly I'm bored with your sillyness over this.
Anastasia, who we were discussing, has their home page set up to invite men to vid chat. constant barrage of popups 24/7.
yes or no?
Men logged in their who accept any of the many chat invites , pay per minute by credit card. Anastasia receives that money
yes or no?
The women inviting the men to vid chat are generally in provincial cities all across Ukraine
( a very few in Russia)
Yes or no?
The affiliate agencies the majority (not some andrew, the majority)of these women are at, at all hours of the day..are being compensated by Anastasia?
yes or no?
The majority of women , at these affiliates doing video chat, are compensated by the affiliatetes?
yes or no?
If your presumtion is accurate, yoi asnswred no to most of those qwuestions
and then Anastasia makes tons of money off video chat, without a single dime passing on to Ukraine?
Yes? or no?
Which makes more sense andrew?
Do people in Ukraine work for free? as in the affiliate agencies?
Apply occums razor since you cant seem to take the word of affiliate workers and managers.
and please go visit HRB again, you learned so much the last trip.
Its a huge help to the readers here. (:)
The readership needs to understand without semantics,
that if they log into Anastasia and accept an invite to video chat,
They are without any doubts, chatting with a women who is paid to chat with him.
unlike yourself apparently,
i'm not so daft as to think if i visit Anastasias home office, they will
outline the amount paid to their affiliates in Ukraine, and openly acknowledge their affiliates routinely paying the vid chat girls.
If you want to propose differently, please andrew,
let us all know , to the best of your knowledge,
what percent of the 7 chat invites per minute that pop up at such sites,
are not from women who are paid to chat.
please some good hard numbers from your due diligence on the subject.
:laugh:
It's pretty much a given that something is amiss if gorgeous girls in their early twenties are showing an interest in broken-down old* coots. Whether someone is being compensated directly, indirectly or running a private scam is immaterial. The results are going to be all the same.
* (Anyone over forty)
AJ,
It was Nessi and I who visited HRB's home office.
We all agree?
It's pretty much a given that something is amiss if gorgeous girls in their early twenties are showing an interest in broken-down old* coots. Whether someone is being compensated directly, indirectly or running a private scam is immaterial. The results are going to be all the same.
* (Anyone over forty)
AJ,
It was Nessi and I who visited HRB's home office.
AJ,
It was Nessi and I who visited HRB's home office.
What home office did Andrew visit?
We all agree?
No. I don't think that the less-attractive girls are getting anything more than a cut of the gifts that they "sell."
This debate about *some*, or only under 23,, is all silly
This debate about *some*, or only under 23,, is all silly
The only remarkable point about girls in their early twenties in this discussion is that it should be obvious that the bride-seekers aren't gettin' one of 'em... unless they have Billy's charm, wit, cleverness and sexual prowess.
So put your money where your mouths are AndrewFi,TomT,Brass etc-- or shutup-it is simple.Each of these individuals has called me a liar-- so let everyone see what wimps you really are.
How very true Tom, or as you have previously put it, dating within their 'pool'
Here is one of the things I discovered: AmoLatina, the sister site of AD, has (or had) a direct offer of compensation to women to talk to men on the site. The offer was something like “get paid to chat with men, and, who knows, you may find the love of your life”. That is my poor Spanish translation. I am sure others can do better as I am not a linguist.
Here is one of the things I discovered: AmoLatina, the sister site of AD, has (or had) a direct offer of compensation to women to talk to men on the site. The offer was something like “get paid to chat with men, and, who knows, you may find the love of your life”. That is my poor Spanish translation. I am sure others can do better as I am not a linguist.
Send it to me. I'll be more than happy to give you the exact meaning.
Barbossa, has written eloquently of the pitfalls and possibilities. tiphat
I would add one thing to "increase" your chances, avoid the profiles that are expensieve to read a letter from or who have a large amount of friends.
The two women I met from AD were in fact low priced women (per letter) that were new "members". After two messages we were in direct contact and moved from Skype to meeting directly.
I live in Odessa and I see the cars all the time that where given away , THEY ARE NOT RETURNED TO ANY DEALERSHIP THEY ARE GIVEN TO THE LADIES , One street over from my house the first car they gave away is parked as the girl that won it lives in my neighborhood , the cars had signs painted on them saying anastiadate, Now the streets are full of ads showing the latest lady that one the Mercedes and I have seen it 2 or 3 times this week and that lady was driving it,MissAmeno, with respect, it does not matter if a bloke even owns a passport, it is about the ability to understand what one sees from ALL sources.
While I DO think that Jay is exaggerating for effect and self aggrandizement I am certain that women are getting paid for chatting with blokes on web cams. It ain't in doubt. ...
Andrew, I am just curious how much he is exaggerating for effect and self aggrandizement :biggrin:
Would I really be that much of the mark suspecting he actually visited Ukraine only once or not at all and all his aggrandizement founded on his keyboard detective agency? :evilgrin0002:
How much would andrew exaggerate his speculation to appear *right*?
What about looking at Andrews passport or trips to an agency affiliate?
or a chat center in ukraine perhaps?
no ,that wouldnt give any credibility at all would it?
He just *knows* and all should bow down to his superior ability to read the internet, or
the inner workings and business practices, of businesses he isn't involved with.
(or at least claims not to be)
Wait, maybe if he dated someone from Anastasia affiliates?
nope hasn't done that .
Maybe if well maybe if he actually logged onto such sites and had done some due diligence,
researched where the chat invites come from, the times of day in ukraine etc?
nope he hasnt done that either.
but expresses he knows more than anyone else here on the subject.
is that odd, or just omniscient?
You're both welcome to my passport, do you question sashas? my wifes? his wifes?
oh right'o.. first hand experience working in an agency wouldn't mean anything, Andrew would know more.
but of course who would think differently?
of course an intellectual from Tallin knows more about the extent of agency affiliate shanningans in Ukraine.. than someone who has worked for them.
How silly of us neandrathals to give any credence to anyone else.
It is amusing as hell when a UK man from Tallin, can extrapolate mostly from thin air the facts,
far better than those Ukrainians who have worked in the affiliate agencies and know the extent of things far better than Andrew could ever hope to.
Andrew doesnt even know with any certainty, that any car was ever given away in Ukraine..
certainly doesn't know if anyone legitimate , that was not associated with a manager etc.
Yet bases a great deal of his argument on the *fact* agencies have promotions..
dodgy math be any stretch of the imagination.
Yes everything that is on a website related top MOB and Ukraine is legit..
especially promotions..for the MOB ladies
hahahahahahahahahaha
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
please i've got a stitch in my side, let me rest Andrew.
Really mate, I havnt laughed this hard since your *findings* of nothing, at the home office of HRB, the MOB is dead ebook, and Planet Love coming into play.
Good stuff. I'm greatly amused , keep it up.
It was a couple years back, perhaps 5, but I thought both Anastasia and 1st International had the same ownership and in this time were mirror sites.
Here is one of the things I discovered: AmoLatina, the sister site of AD, has (or had) a direct offer of compensation to women to talk to men on the site. The offer was something like “get paid to chat with men, and, who knows, you may find the love of your life”. That is my poor Spanish translation. I am sure others can do better as I am not a linguist.
Send it to me. I'll be more than happy to give you the exact meaning.
La misma mierda Muzh. Pura tonteria el sitio.
AJ, if you want to claim that your exagerations for effect are true can you suggest to me reasons why Anastasia, who we understand to pay some women would have a promotion giving away cars to their female clients for doing that for which you tell us they are hugely well paid already?
Why would they advertise the promotion on a public facing site as part of a recruitment drive?
Why would AnastasiaDate bother to pay everyone on their books when almost none of them will ever even get contact from male clients?
If you are going to exaggerate for effect then think before you do so, dream up a credible story. Or, more simply stick to the truth and tell us that you have come across one or two people who claim to know people who were paid at some point in the recent past.
AJ I do not have to follow in your footsteps to understand that while you may think you have seen a specific case or two that this does not describe the generality of a phenomenon of which you have seen only a very tiny part. In general it is poor thinking to extrapolate from a specific case to the general - the other way round tends to work better. ;)
Sashathecat, the page you linked to is about setting up an office for translators. Go read it.
If you are going to try to make a point at least read the bloody document before posting about it. :(
It makes perfect sense to have translators who are of similar age to the women who they work with - it enables them to write and think in the same terms as the female clients.
By the way, for those of you having fantasies about huge amounts of money take a look at the testimonials where you will see an agent claiming to be one of the leading agencies is happy to have a revenue of around $5000 derived from a translating team of around 30 women.
I thought AJ had done a pretty good job closing the case on this up thread. For shits and giggles we can keep going? The pdf I posted makes it all pretty obvious even if you do not speak Spanish. Here's a bit of it translated.
Page 9 item #3
La dama esté familiarizada con los requisitos para la correspondencia, que figuran en las Reglas
de Trabajo (Work Rules).
The woman is familiar with the requirements for correspondence according to the rules of employment.
I thought AJ had done a pretty good job closing the case on this up thread. For shits and giggles we can keep going? The pdf I posted makes it all pretty obvious even if you do not speak Spanish. Here's a bit of it translated.
Page 9 item #3
La dama esté familiarizada con los requisitos para la correspondencia, que figuran en las Reglas
de Trabajo (Work Rules).
The woman is familiar with the requirements for correspondence according to the rules of employment.
No hombre, eso no es es lo que dice.
Sasha, what the guy refers to the "Work Rules" apply to the owner of the agency and his employees, not the ladies.
I read through most of the 60 something pages and I really did not get the impression that they are telling the owner to recruit girls for scamming the guys. The scam is up to the owner. But they reiterate that they can make money 'honestly' by letting human nature take its course.
I live in Odessa and I see the cars all the time that where given away , THEY ARE NOT RETURNED TO ANY DEALERSHIP THEY ARE GIVEN TO THE LADIES , One street over from my house the first car they gave away is parked as the girl that won it lives in my neighborhood , the cars had signs painted on them saying anastiadate, Now the streets are full of ads showing the latest lady that one the Mercedes and I have seen it 2 or 3 times this week and that lady was driving it,
AJ, if you want to claim that your exagerations for effect are true can you suggest to me reasons why Anastasia, who we understand to pay some women would have a promotion giving away cars to their female clients for doing that for which you tell us they are hugely well paid already?What am i exaggeratingAndrew? define it please?
Why would they advertise the promotion on a public facing site as part of a recruitment drive?Why not? Many companies do when hiring.
Why would AnastasiaDate bother to pay everyone on their books when almost none of them will ever even get contact from male clients?Misdirect by you with misinformation. nice try,
If you are going to exaggerate for effect then think before you do so, dream up a credible story. Or, more simply stick to the truth and tell us that you have come across one or two people who claim to know people who were paid at some point in the recent past.
describe the generality of a phenomenon of which you have seen only a very tiny part.i have seen a tiny part? :laugh: :laugh:
In general it is poor thinking to extrapolate from a specific case to the general - the other way round tends to work better. ;)In general its incredibly poor thinking for a man with zero credible insight on a subject,
I live in Odessa and I see the cars all the time that where given away , THEY ARE NOT RETURNED TO ANY DEALERSHIP THEY ARE GIVEN TO THE LADIES , One street over from my house the first car they gave away is parked as the girl that won it lives in my neighborhood , the cars had signs painted on them saying anastiadate, Now the streets are full of ads showing the latest lady that one the Mercedes and I have seen it 2 or 3 times this week and that lady was driving it,
Yes, wife says a woman in her agency won the Ford and kept it. She was good friends with the agency owner as AJ implies.
I said, quite clearly, that the affiliates pay the majority of women who would invite you
to vid chat.You know the pop ups made into the software?
AJ, if you want to claim that your exagerations for effect are true can you suggest to me reasons why Anastasia, who we understand to pay some women would have a promotion giving away cars to their female clients for doing that for which you tell us they are hugely well paid already?What am i exaggeratingAndrew? define it please?
You stating i exaggerate is merely more Andrewfi speculation.you have zero evidence to the contrary. Your chief point from afar being a promotion, in ukraine. lol
When you can show any credible proof a car was ever given away?
How about simply a promotion to get more women to sign up initially?
The fact they pay chat girls ,would not keep them from having additional promotions,
I get a salary Andrew, I have lots of bonus opportunities as well.
My company even advertises those when hiring.
you really arnt generally this daft.QuoteWhy would they advertise the promotion on a public facing site as part of a recruitment drive?Why not? Many companies do when hiring.
They need fresh profiles,more photo shoots,,
they may even actually need more chat women ,or women to answer the ghosted profiles.QuoteWhy would AnastasiaDate bother to pay everyone on their books when almost none of them will ever even get contact from male clients?Misdirect by you with misinformation. nice try,
I never said they paid everyone.
Please quote me if so.
I stared the vid chat girls are paid.period.
You foolishly contested it, and assure us one agency, to the best of your knowledge, doesnt pay the vid chat women.
THEN you recanted a bit, :D and stated some women are paid and you've known that for years.(now i'l be nice, and assume here that you surely dint mean that the one agency ,anastasia, you stated doesnt pay, doesnt pay even some,but we both know thats laughable, so i just have to say your daft.)
I notice you dint answer my question on how Anastasia gets to rake in the money from the men paying for video chat, all with out compensating the affiliates?
it makes sense to you andrew?
yes or no questions , i know you hate those.
Andrew, you already stated Anastasia doesn't pay anyone to vid chat ,to the best of your knowledge,
The best of your knowledge is already quite suspect.
but you care to say i exaggerate statistics that you have no evidence of being different than what is directly stated by the workers at the affiliates.
:laugh:
Anyway, we both know there are hundreds of thousands of profiles.
They certainly dont pay everyone, that has a profile.
I never stated that,you tried to introduce that as a misdirect.
I said, quite clearly, that the affiliates pay the majority of women who would invite you
to vid chat.You know the pop ups made into the software?
For the 5th or 6th? time i'l ask the basic question you keep avoiding like the plague,
Do you , Andrewfi, to the best of your knowledge, think the majority of women in the pop ups inviting men to chat are not paid?QuoteIf you are going to exaggerate for effect then think before you do so, dream up a credible story. Or, more simply stick to the truth and tell us that you have come across one or two people who claim to know people who were paid at some point in the recent past.
And if you want to act the pompous jerk, you're doing great at it.
I'm sure its due to lots of practice.
I was playing nice, if you want to act condescending ,
then we will both take the gloves off ok?
a credible story? Are you drinking Andrew?
Why would vid chat girl being paid ,not be credible?
please elaborate.
Then please name one credible source you have?that they are not. one please.
Reminder: interpreting a business promotion to fit your view is not a credible source.
A promotion that could be valid ,but have other uses? or one thats simply smoke and mirrors? it is ukraine!
Find that vid chat chick with that Mercedes Andrew, find her.
then we will talk. then you'll have ONE credible source,
isnt that what you've accused me of?
yet you still have none?
:laugh:
I dint dream up anything up and have no reason to.
I have been going to Ukraine, for about 15 years.
I know several affiliate managers, many interpreters, many vid chat women
You know none. great credibility there and a dine place to come off as condescending to me. :laugh:
Lets get back to the basics? you stated that to the best of your knowledge(really now, where did you base anything off?) that Anastasia, (one agency) does not pay vid chat girls.
Yet in another post admitted know some girls are paid.
You never answered me, what due diligence have you done?
any?
How many of the 7 per minute pop ups on ANastasia , are from women who arnt paid?
Any number andrew.. from 1 to 100 %.
lets hear it?
I have done my due diligence, i have a pretty good grasp despite you thinking otherwise..Quotedescribe the generality of a phenomenon of which you have seen only a very tiny part.i have seen a tiny part? :laugh: :laugh:
what have YOU seen first hand andrew ? or even from afar? a promotion? :laugh:
Why do i need to remind you, of all people, that you havn't seen ANY portion of it in country. at an affiliate agency.
how do you possible propose that you know much of anything about it?QuoteIn general it is poor thinking to extrapolate from a specific case to the general - the other way round tends to work better. ;)In general its incredibly poor thinking for a man with zero credible insight on a subject,
to challenge someone who has looked into this for years.
How many cases do i know about Andrew?
The truth is , you have absolutely no idea.
So why go there?
Want to challenge my credibility? my wifes? Sasha? Sahasa wife?
Yes of course YOU know better sitting in Tallin,
The rest of us are too dense to see the big picture.
The amount of information i have on the subject far exceeds yours,
that is very easy to out distance.
I wouldnt even comment on this topic if i was as ill informed as you Andrew.
I'd be enbarrassed to, I'd have thought you'd know better.
Can you even admit that its a possibilty, that the women who invite men to chat on Anastasia, are all paid, there is actually no good reason they wouldn't be!
and that the affiliate program is far more extensive than you might know about from your remote viewing thru the internet connection in Tallin?
Pompous suits you. you wear it quite well.
One thing that has seldom if ever, been questioned of me, on many years on any forum is my credibility.
You are basing your *belief* on the fact there are a lot of profiles,
or some random promotion or three.
Andrew that has nothing at all to do with the group of women on video chat.
That group is paid.
You think you are the only one who can see the big picture,(God complex anyone?)
and its hysterical because you can't even see the basics of how that part of the business works.
You really believe it works off women in ukraine inviting men to video chat for free?
(while the men pay per minute)
ok you wizard of industry, you are really on the ball on this one..
:laugh:
It was about an average of 7 per minute chat invite pop ups andrew, , 7 per minute.
work it out
common, think man THINK.
7 per minute women are up at all hours ,all over ukraine , to chat for free by youir presumotio9n.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
.
yet you want to dispute what i know, as fact, because they have had a promotion for a car.
:laugh:
Your thinking is terribly flawed.
senility setting in?
Get back to me on how the affiliates are,or are not compensated , by Anastasia.
or admit you are clueless on this subject .
I'm prepared to send a physician to remove your other foot from your mouth ,
if you want to continue this, as its sure to be stuck there soon.
I thought the taste of one would be enough.
but please andrewfi, carry on.carry on!!
With telling me how little i know about the big picture of how the underbelly of the MOB agencies operate, all from your superior and credible pulpit.
I mean as a simple minded neandrathal, i couldnt possible work such a complex business model out.
Why I'd probably need to visit the home office of HRB in Florida, to truly uninderstand that vid chat girls generally arnt paid to vid chat.
:laugh:
I said, quite clearly, that the affiliates pay the majority of women who would invite you
to vid chat.You know the pop ups made into the software?
Do you mean the pop ups where the women must have at least 40 men selected in the interface before it can work?
Para enviar invitaciones a un hombre, debe hacer click en al menos 40
hombres que estén en la lista de la izquierda
And the key to this is to send 40 chat requests per woman per hour? Sounds like normal dating to me. Good looking women usually try to chat up hundreds of men per day so they can meet someone special, right?
La dama puede enviarla nuevamente al mismo hombre o a otro. El punto principal es enviar 40 invitaciones en 1 hora.
I am glad I went to Russia and met a normal woman who wasn't part of this complicated 'industry'.You can talk until you blue in the face, but people just don't or won't listen. Nothing new, happens all the time not only in finding a women in the FSU, but life itself.
Yet men still flock to Ukraine like lemmings rather than Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan where all this "agency" and other funny stuff either never started or finished years ago.
All this funny stuff is *only* in Ukraine now. If men stopped flocking there like sheep we would have fewer of these topics.
Manny,A company that turns a nice profit will always look to expand. Still the majority of MOB agencies and their scams operate in Ukraine.
Krasnodar is the fifth largest market for Anastasia Date. Last time I looked, it is in Russia. And I believe that Sparky might wind up rubbing elbows with some AD girls over near Rostov. It is not, by any means, restricted to Ukraine. Although the first four markets are certainly Ukrainian markets. I believe, to order the size of the AD markets, it would be:
1. Odessa
2. Kharkov
3. Kiev
4. Mikolaev
5. Krasnodar
(Kherson and Poltava also have significant pockets of activity. While Belarus restricts the formation of Agencies for the MOB industry, there is a small pocket of Minsk women serviced by the Kiev AD agencies.)
This company continues to grow as it continues to force out competition. Bride.ru used to populate Krasnodar but AD is pushing them out.
One of the women mentioned in the previous post was from Krasnodar. Her understanding of the system was not as sophisticated as the women from Kharkov and Mikolaev. She had no access to a webcam and the agency she went through was all the way across the city so she never participated in video chat. She became frustrated with me as she had trouble loading Skype on her computer and our relations broke down. We still communicate as friends through email.
I have compared notes, previously, to both Sasha and AJ. I learned much from both of these men (and, indirectly, their wives). It was of great assistance in popping the bubble that AD throws around it's women. Even if the women were not getting paid, it is a difficult nut to crack.
But I believe that the question of payment vs. non-payment to women is significant as it goes directly to motive. What would motivate a woman to be on an MOB site? We know now of four women, three on this forum and one on the other forum, all who were receiving some type of compensation for being on this MOB offering. The men who were successful in 'cracking the nut' to get at the meat inside the shell are valuable to RUA. I would not have had my success without their continued coaching.
I have not heard of anyone who was successful with a woman from this large entity called Anastasia Date where the women was not receiving some type of compensation. If someone knows of anyone, please come forward.
When dealing with MOB sites, no one really wants to read 'gotcha' type rhetoric that pokes at the edges of the issues. I believe that the great number of readers want to know how to interact with a site to have possible success in meeting women and beginning a relationship.
I have not heard of anyone who was successful with a woman from this large entity called Anastasia Date where the women was not receiving some type of compensation.
Gents, please think just a little before making stupid claims. Apart from anything else when you do so and people read your twaddle and exaggerations for effect they might give no credence to more truthful stuff that you have to say and might also tend discount more factual warnings along the lines that SOME women MIGHT get paid in SOME cases and that precautions and due diligence are appropriate.
I doubt that anyone who knows much about the business would say that some women don't get paid. We know they do.yeap we know they do,some of us with much more surety than those with zero experience in the matter.
Suggesting that the vast majority do as is happening here is just silly and makes no sense from a business perspective.
Manny for the record, I have never stated a man couldn't find a women, that wasn't paid by Anastasia, thru Anastasia. There are hundreds of thousands of profiles.I have not heard of anyone who was successful with a woman from this large entity called Anastasia Date where the women was not receiving some type of compensation.Cdrp here married a normal women off AD. Others have too.
Give me proof that a court will accept. Aside from that, you make a compelling argument based on two examples that even paid chat girls were actually looking for husbands.
I doubt that anyone who knows much about the business would say that some women don't get paid. We know they do.
You should know what a stupid assertion is--like your comments on Lugansk previously being made from ignorance and your persistent assertion that you knew best because of what you have read on the internet!!
Gents, please think just a little before making stupid claims. Apart from anything else when you do so and people read your twaddle and exaggerations for effect they might give no credence to more truthful stuff that you have to say and might also tend discount more factual warnings along the lines that SOME women MIGHT get paid in SOME cases and that precautions and due diligence are appropriate.
While realizing that there is and has always been mass corruption in the industry and that at least some of the chat girls are paid, I still see no proof that a majority are paid. Give me proof that a court will accept. Aside from that, you make a compelling argument based on two examples that even paid chat girls were actually looking for husbands.[/i]
While realizing that there is and has always been mass corruption in the industry and that at least some of the chat girls are paid, I still see no proof that a majority are paid. Give me proof that a court will accept. Aside from that, you make a compelling argument based on two examples that even paid chat girls were actually looking for husbands.
While realizing that there is and has always been mass corruption in the industry and that at least some of the chat girls are paid, I still see no proof that a majority are paid. Give me proof that a court will accept. Aside from that, you make a compelling argument based on two examples that even paid chat girls were actually looking for husbands.
AJ alludes to the difficulty of getting girls to admit being paid or to the practices of the agencies above--the reality is that it is very dangerous for any girl to talk about these issues.Even after they have left the FSU it would be dangerous to family and friends.
We might also look into how much business sense it makes for HRB to have andrew wilson, fly to Florida.
It couldn't possibly be so she can simultaneously be chatting with several chat /text windows open at once could it?
Your rhetorical question speculates about girls juggling multiple chat sessions.
CB, you think it is possible to make dishonest women honest?
MISSION IMPOSSIBLE
(unless you are playing a game)
:smokin:
I have to say hats off to you two for managing to get your wives out of that system and making honest women out of them,and it looks like blackknight will soon be joining your ranks.
You must have some game..it's mission impossible for the vast majority of men trying to do that tiphat
And people do not do this on FaceBook every day?
And people do not do this on FaceBook every day?
What happens on facebook has nothing to do with what I observed on the HRB video-chat system.
Taking your comment here in all seriousness-- I gather that was some tine ago?It couldn't possibly be so she can simultaneously be chatting with several chat /text windows open at once could it?
Your rhetorical question speculates about girls juggling multiple chat sessions.
Whilst in Dunedin, I spent a full day on the video chat system control console that displayed every aspect of the sessions, including every open chat window. I didn't notice any ménage à trois, quatre, cinq, etc and asked about whether it was possible. The operator said that it was but, as a practical matter, it would be difficult for a girl to accomplish it in a second language without large gaps that would surely cause complaints from the men.
It couldn't possibly be so she can simultaneously be chatting with several chat /text windows open at once could it?
Your rhetorical question speculates about girls juggling multiple chat sessions.
Whilst in Dunedin, I spent a full day on the video chat system control console that displayed every aspect of the sessions, including every open chat window. I didn't notice any ménage à trois, quatre, cinq, etc and asked about whether it was possible. The operator said that it was but, as a practical matter, it would be difficult for a girl to accomplish it in a second language without large gaps that would surely cause complaints from the men.
At the slightest perceived problem they were quick to scream scam and nothing you could say would appease them.
Agencies are hiring women to chat with men. Lets forget that they also toss in how you can meet men while getting paid. Just getting paid to do this makes it a scam of sorts as long as it is advertised as meeting women interested in marrying a foreign man. But how many agencies are paying and how many women are working it? No proof is no proof and you can say you know one or some or even many or your mother told you, they are not here for questioning.
They are also just as susceptible to embellishing. While I personally am willing to believe a RW who claims that agencies are scamming via chat I also do not hear that woman speaking here. She is not available for questions fear of retribution or no. I hear a second hand voice say she worked there and knew of others and when you take three who know multiple you end up with the truth of everything. I do not know any person on either side of the pond who knows near everything but I am willing to accept without questioning that there are three women with knowledge of twice as many agencies. Even then it appears they have no idea how many women were actually paid
I personally would not use this service for several reasons including the scam angle. For all I know this part of the industry could be 90% scam but... it could also be 10% scam or some agencies 100% and others not at all.
AJ and Sashathecat,
I have to say hats off to you two for managing to get your wives out of that system and making honest women out of them,and it looks like blackknight will soon be joining your ranks.
You must have some game..it's mission impossible for the vast majority of men trying to do that tiphat
Life must suck for men who are so desperate their mission
is to change a dishonest woman into an honest one...
As an aside,personally i've never been convinced by the earnings levels quoted for these video chat girls,although i'm sure they do all get paid.
Why use AD at all? Why not go to Russia, or if going to Ukraine use a different method?Because that is a hunt.
Maybe what is happening here is two things happening at once. We have people who need an excuse for their failure and so being able to blame some outside 'agency' sometimes even in advance gives them a free pass for their own issues. Basically the story is 'I can't succeed and its because of all those nasty horrible women who get paid to talk to me' What that tells us about these men is not good and as I see it a little sad, but blaming external 'others' for one's shortcomings is not healthy and nor is it a way to succeed at anything.
The second wee group we have is men whose wives/girlfriends/penfriends/whatever were involved in scamming blokes at some level and, as is usual, it becomes much easier to accept what one person was doing if we believe that many people were doing the same thing, that this behaviour is somehow normal and thus acceptable. Some might say this is a little childish and I might not argue with them.
The other way of thinking is to understand that as soon as one tries to suggest that all of a group are the same then apart from at the most basic level of 'women are female' it is very rare for all cases of a group to be identical. We need to know no more than this to understand that claims being made here are untrue.
In this case the effect, it seems to me, is that we have a few guys married to or involved with women who were or are involved in the very business doing the very stuff they claim is universal. Apart from the worries I'd have about being hooked up with a person doing stuff that I had ethical concerns about we have another issue: If a person is telling us well I got my woman but all the rest are scheming liars and cheats then they are, by inference, telling other people they have no chance to succeed and that is as untrue as the idea that all these women are getting paid to mislead men.
How do you know if a girl is a local agency employee who is paid to chat?
Log on the site on a week day at 4:00 am Ukraine time and every single one of
the girls who is online with a webcam is paid to be there.
If a pretty 5' 10" 19 year old "linguist model" calls you and says that she wants
to chat with you (a 50 year old man) at 12:43am on a school night because she
can't find a local man then you can pretty much assure yourself that she is being
paid to do so.
(http://www.hotrussianbrides.com/lb_photos/524527/524527_3l.jpg)
Hot FSUW don't approach old men and ask them to chat with them. Hot young
FSUW don't write initial letters to men. They don't need to. They wouldn't do it
unless they are paid to do so.
2tallbill can't speak about MOB dating sites but reality is different from what you're saying about sites such as HRB. I spent 27 months in Moscow and met my wife there. Expats in Moscow have no problem meeting RW 20+ years their junior.
On a number of occasions in Moscow bars I was approached 'hot young RW'. At the time I was in my mid 40's and after a couple of decades in the US Army in far better shape than most men in the bars. Perhaps the lesson is if you want to meet young RW travel to Russia and meet them in person.
And Bill, there's an outside chance that you might be right, but that is a very far cry from what has been claimed by others and, frankly, I don't think that your assessment is correct either if for no other reason than I can sit here at such a time and chat with people I know across the time zones of the FSU. Also, motivated people know that 04:00 in Kiev is 18:00 in Los Angeles and only 22:00 in New York. It'd be odd if a motivated person chose to waste her time chatting when she knew you lot are asleep. A little thought helps Bill. ;)
Not sure if I'd want to be married to someone with principles that are fluid enough to screw over some men just to earn a buck as you'll never know when you'll be next. Who knows what else they'd be happy to do when it fits their agendas.
Bill, there is no comparison with MOB sites and boots on the ground.
Boots on the ground is a thousand times more effective (maybe more).
2tallbill can't speak about MOB dating sites but reality is different from what you're saying about sites such as HRB. I spent 27 months in Moscow and met my wife there. Expats in Moscow have no problem meeting RW 20+ years their junior.
On a number of occasions in Moscow bars I was approached 'hot young RW'. At the time I was in my mid 40's and after a couple of decades in the US Army in far better shape than most men in the bars. Perhaps the lesson is if you want to meet young RW travel to Russia and meet them in person.
Bill, there is no comparison with MOB sites and boots on the ground.
Boots on the ground is a thousand times more effective (maybe more).
Not sure if I'd want to be married to someone with principles that are fluid enough to screw over some men just to earn a buck as you'll never know when you'll be next. Who knows what else they'd be happy to do when it fits their agendas.
Not sure I would want to be married to a woman who approached me first for fear that she would use me for a green card or a leg up in life. But hey, as long as everyone is happy, right? ;)
How do you know if a girl is a local agency employee who is paid to chat?
Log on the site on a week day at 4:00 am Ukraine time and every single one of
the girls who is online with a webcam is paid to be there.
If a pretty 5' 10" 19 year old "linguist model" calls you and says that she wants
to chat with you (a 50 year old man) at 12:43am on a school night because she
can't find a local man then you can pretty much assure yourself that she is being
paid to do so.
(http://www.hotrussianbrides.com/lb_photos/524527/524527_3l.jpg)
Hot FSUW don't approach old men and ask them to chat with them. Hot young
FSUW don't write initial letters to men. They don't need to. They wouldn't do it
unless they are paid to do so.
Not sure if I'd want to be married to someone with principles that are fluid enough to screw over some men just to earn a buck as you'll never know when you'll be next. Who knows what else they'd be happy to do when it fits their agendas.
Not sure I would want to be married to a woman who approached me first for fear that she would use me for a green card or a leg up in life. But hey, as long as everyone is happy, right? ;)
So, you equate method of first contact with deliberate deception, fraud and theft?
Yes, it really is no wonder how you guys get into trouble.
Core values are everything.
How do you know if a girl is a local agency employee who is paid to chat?
Log on the site on a week day at 4:00 am Ukraine time and every single one of
the girls who is online with a webcam is paid to be there.
If a pretty 5' 10" 19 year old "linguist model" calls you and says that she wants
to chat with you (a 50 year old man) at 12:43am on a school night because she
can't find a local man then you can pretty much assure yourself that she is being
paid to do so.
(http://www.hotrussianbrides.com/lb_photos/524527/524527_3l.jpg)
Hot FSUW don't approach old men and ask them to chat with them. Hot young
FSUW don't write initial letters to men. They don't need to. They wouldn't do it
unless they are paid to do so.
I know exactly who this woman is and she does not do chat - in fact she was two weeks ago in Australia and is presently in London. Returning to Ukraine on Thursday. Also for the good order she is 25 years old.
Not sure if I'd want to be married to someone with principles that are fluid enough to screw over some men just to earn a buck as you'll never know when you'll be next. Who knows what else they'd be happy to do when it fits their agendas.
Not sure I would want to be married to a woman who approached me first for fear that she would use me for a green card or a leg up in life. But hey, as long as everyone is happy, right? ;)
So, you equate method of first contact with deliberate deception, fraud and theft?
Yes, it really is no wonder how you guys get into trouble.
Core values are everything.
No, I was trying to show you how silly what you said was. Method of contact shows the man has no cojones.
I agree on the core values, something you appear to be missing at times.
Several of the guys above are correct. My wife worked for an agency that fed into Anastasia. Women can make between $200 and 2k a month. It works like most affiliate programs. Anastasia gets a cut, the agency takes their share, and the girls are left at the agency owners whims.
There are many angles to making money. Gifts, free photo shoots, fees for meeting the guys, prizes in contests, etc.
In Odessa many women get their friends to signup. The women will do it just to help her friend out or for fun.
I know exactly who this woman is and she does not do chat - in fact she was two weeks ago in Australia and is presently in London. Returning to Ukraine on Thursday. Also for the good order she is 25 years old.
Interesting logic you have there. Good luck with that. :ROFL:
Interesting logic you have there. Good luck with that. :ROFL:
Run along and play in a busy street little chihuahua :P
On a serious note, you do bring up some valid points Ade. Every situation is different and in my case I am certainly not worried. I will not go into full details but I think you may be assuming my wife did certain things she did in fact not participate in.
The thing is that if one chooses to paint a picture that is inaccurate in order to serves one's own psychic needs then one is going to make a lot of mistakes.
The thing is that if one chooses to paint a picture that is inaccurate in order to serves one's own psychic needs then one is going to make a lot of mistakes.
Yeap, glad to see you can admit it.
:laugh:
However I am certain that when you think for a while that it makes little sense to suggest as some are doing that not only are all the women (or an overwhelming majority according to some posts) scammers but that the same is true of all MOB businesses
Here is a working woman, who maintains a job for eight hours most days and twelve hours some days. Her profile is prominent on the masthead of Anastasia Date. Her participation in the payment of money is tacit. It was proposed to her that if the agency could increase her exposure and write letters on her behalf, she could reach more men then she could operating by herself.
There is no malice. There is no intent to defraud. That occurs at the agency level. She was very happy that her profile was expanded to more men - and that those men were reviewed and some weeded out by the agency.
The fraud and deception happens at the agency level. The women are simply tacit beneficiaries. Most of them, once you get to them, are, like this woman, good people who cannot worry about the workings of a system that may or may not at some future point in time yield a husband. Does she get remuneration? Yes.
My purpose in posting here was not to draw attention to the ethics but more to the possibility of how to work within this system. All the talk about ethics and should I date a woman who gets paid to talk to men is simply noodles to my ears.
So, are you saying your love interest is either lying or stupid?
Here is a working woman, who maintains a job for eight hours most days and twelve hours some days. Her profile is prominent on the masthead of Anastasia Date. Her participation in the payment of money is tacit. It was proposed to her that if the agency could increase her exposure and write letters on her behalf, she could reach more men then she could operating by herself.
There is no malice. There is no intent to defraud. That occurs at the agency level. She was very happy that her profile was expanded to more men - and that those men were reviewed and some weeded out by the agency.
The fraud and deception happens at the agency level. The women are simply tacit beneficiaries. Most of them, once you get to them, are, like this woman, good people who cannot worry about the workings of a system that may or may not at some future point in time yield a husband. Does she get remuneration? Yes.
My purpose in posting here was not to draw attention to the ethics but more to the possibility of how to work within this system. All the talk about ethics and should I date a woman who gets paid to talk to men is simply noodles to my ears.
So, are you saying your love interest is either lying or stupid?
Ade, It seems you are just tired of the diaper routine (so soon?) or back in your snarky mode.
If one compares the reality of politics and business in Ukraine than what Barabossa describes is (unfortunately) standard operating procedure. This is a woman who was naive of the realites, your judgement seems a bit harsh.
It seems also a bit cheap to discuss a specific woman when we are speaking of a big picture the modus operandi of an industry. There is insight and specific information that has not been shared before.
(untrue story)
I have a girlfriend, we are planning to be married. She works with a mafiya outfit, their main business is selling drugs, her job is to do the accounting for the business, she collects the money and pays the street level dealers.
Nothing wrong with that of course, she is not a drug dealer, she thinks selling drugs is wrong, she promised me she had never sold drugs and I believe her.
It will be good to take her out of that environment and make an honest woman of her.
(untrue story)
I have a girlfriend, we are planning to be married. She works with a mafiya outfit, their main business is selling drugs, her job is to do the accounting for the business, she collects the money and pays the street level dealers.
Nothing wrong with that of course, she is not a drug dealer, she thinks selling drugs is wrong, she promised me she had never sold drugs and I believe her.
It will be good to take her out of that environment and make an honest woman of her.
lol. Precisely.
Of course, there will be many men here that will think that way. In fact, this thread seems to be a case in point.
(untrue story)
I have a girlfriend, we are planning to be married. She works with a mafiya outfit, their main business is selling drugs, her job is to do the accounting for the business, she collects the money and pays the street level dealers.
Nothing wrong with that of course, she is not a drug dealer, she thinks selling drugs is wrong, she promised me she had never sold drugs and I believe her.
It will be good to take her out of that environment and make an honest woman of her.
lol. Precisely.
Of course, there will be many men here that will think that way. In fact, this thread seems to be a case in point.
It seems you two have never been able to love, sort of sad, but it your choice.
(untrue story)
I have a girlfriend, we are planning to be married. She works with a mafiya outfit, their main business is selling drugs, her job is to do the accounting for the business, she collects the money and pays the street level dealers.
Nothing wrong with that of course, she is not a drug dealer, she thinks selling drugs is wrong, she promised me she had never sold drugs and I believe her.
AJ, think a little, understand that absolutes are almost never correct and think also of what you are telling the world - my partner was a scammer and she's OK with me but you lot can f**k off. Is that the message you really want to convey both about her and about your ethical viewpoint?
(untrue story)
I have a girlfriend, we are planning to be married. She works with a mafiya outfit, their main business is selling drugs, her job is to do the accounting for the business, she collects the money and pays the street level dealers.
Nothing wrong with that of course, she is not a drug dealer, she thinks selling drugs is wrong, she promised me she had never sold drugs and I believe her.
It will be good to take her out of that environment and make an honest woman of her.
lol. Precisely.
Of course, there will be many men here that will think that way. In fact, this thread seems to be a case in point.
It seems you two have never been able to love, sort of sad, but it your choice.
Strange conclusion you've drawn.
I'll even say I've dated, sometime in my past, women with dodgy principles, but I never kidded myself to that or made excuses for them.
(untrue story)
I have a girlfriend, we are planning to be married. She works with a mafiya outfit, their main business is selling drugs, her job is to do the accounting for the business, she collects the money and pays the street level dealers.
Nothing wrong with that of course, she is not a drug dealer, she thinks selling drugs is wrong, she promised me she had never sold drugs and I believe her.
True story
There is a corporation, they work with agencies, their main business is scamming western guys, the corporation supplies the software, collects the money, does the advertising, funds the contests, and pays agencies who in turn pay the women.
Nothing wrong with it of course, except they are at the top of the food chain. They are the big fish who will let the middlemen take the fall. They are the ones the feds will go after.
Have any of you geniuses developed a strategy to deal with this situation yet?
In Kalifornia, we have something called the Kalifornia stop. It is the approach to a stop sign, where, upon looking both ways, the driver rolls through the intersection. When I first moved here, I was aghast. Now, I do it as well. I will not judge these women for taking gifts in earnest or money directly from the agency. If I were to judge them for their high moral character, I'd be caught in the same misanthropic state as some of the members here. It reminds me of some of the hoity toity preachers who preach high moral standards and then get busted for soliciting prostitutes. Be careful how sanctimonious you are. For you are casting stones at our wives and girlfriends. In general application as policy, acceptable. But in reality, how would you feel if the table were turned and we were discussing your wife.
(untrue story)
I have a girlfriend, we are planning to be married. She works with a mafiya outfit, their main business is selling drugs, her job is to do the accounting for the business, she collects the money and pays the street level dealers.
Nothing wrong with that of course, she is not a drug dealer, she thinks selling drugs is wrong, she promised me she had never sold drugs and I believe her.
It will be good to take her out of that environment and make an honest woman of her.
lol. Precisely.
Of course, there will be many men here that will think that way. In fact, this thread seems to be a case in point.
It seems you two have never been able to love, sort of sad, but it your choice.
Strange conclusion you've drawn.
I'll even say I've dated, sometime in my past, women with dodgy principles, but I never kidded myself to that or made excuses for them.
Ade, To me you are the one with the dodgy principles. But are conclusions strange or otherwise are based on what you write. Av
Why do you think I have "dodgy principles" exactly? Because I don't scam people? Because I try to point out the flaws in other people's thinking?You make assumptions about other people and hold your self to be some supper arbitrator of any one who considers a dating a woman from another culture. As the most recent example your snide comments directed to Barbossa's partner.
Because I don't lie?I do not think you lie, you are to pompous.
Because I don't scam people?I have never met you or done business with you. I give every one the benefit of doubt with in reason.
Because I try to point out the flaws in other people's thinking? Go on, tell me, I'm truly curious why you think that. Or is it you "exaggerating for effect" again?Your problem, (I do not care how you view it) is your over riding sense of moral superiority and denial of some one else's standpoint that is you Achilles heel in my opinion. You demean and deride those who do not agree with you.
Yes, several pages back.
I don't trust anyone who makes a public claim that they don't lie. Ironic really.
Ya know, I'm beginning to believe that all American men must be required to spend six nights in a domestic strip club before they're allowed to set foot on an airplane bound for the FSU.
I think there would be many positive results from such a requirement:
1) discover that some girls will tell you anything to get possession of your money,
2) discover that some girls will use their sexual attractiveness to get possession of your money,
3) discover that some girls will tell you a true or made up hard luck story about their life to get possession of your money,
4) discover that some girls will try to convince you they prefer older or "bigger" men to get possession of your money,
5) discover that some girls will do whatever they can to dissuade you from seeing other girls so they can be first in line to get possession of your money,
6) discover that the sexual stimulation from a hot body while desireable, is quite fleeting and somehow hollow without emotional attachment,
7) discover that some girls will lie and tell you don't have a boyfriend or husband; when in fact they do, so they can get possession of your money,
Yes, strip clubs can be VERY educational . . . . . . . . . . .
Why do you think I have "dodgy principles" exactly? Because I don't scam people? Because I try to point out the flaws in other people's thinking?You make assumptions about other people and hold your self to be some supper arbitrator of any one who considers a dating a woman from another culture. As the most recent example your snide comments directed to Barbossa's partner.
As answer to your subsequent questions, in order;Because I don't lie?I do not think you lie, you are to pompous.
Because I don't scam people?I have never met you or done business with you. I give every one the benefit of doubt with in reason.
Because I try to point out the flaws in other people's thinking? Go on, tell me, I'm truly curious why you think that. Or is it you "exaggerating for effect" again?Your problem, (I do not care how you view it) is your over riding sense of moral superiority and denial of some one else's standpoint that is you Achilles heel in my opinion. You demean and deride those who do not agree with you.
or these same men could just cut out all the BS and hire a hooker or two and never leave their home town :)
Have any of you geniuses developed a strategy to deal with this situation yet?
Yes, several pages back.
Great! Getting an email address by surreptitious means doesn't rule out the possibility of an agency employee at the other end, though. If she happens to be the girl in the photo/video window, but was previously on the take, now he should know that she isn't reluctant to cheat her partner/boss out of his/her cut of the proceeds. (Hence, Andrew's point: "No honour amongst thieves") I'm not sure that the hidden-email trick accomplishes much of anything except a false sense of confidence.
He is now at exactly the same point, at which he would be, if a girl on the scammer-laden freepersonals.ru passed an email address to him.
Yes, strip clubs can be VERY educational . . . . . . . . . . .
Shakespear, your post indicates that you are a well educated man. Personally, I am intrigued. What a novel idea!
Shakespear, your post indicates that you are a well educated man. Personally, I am intrigued. What a novel idea!
Oh I enjoy a visit to a strip club on occasion.
Not at all ashamed to admit it.
It just surprises me about the naivety of some of the men that post here.
"Investing" a couple hundred dollars in local strip clubs and learning how the game is played by real professionals might "toughen them up" a bit.
Why do you think I have "dodgy principles" exactly? Because I don't scam people? Because I try to point out the flaws in other people's thinking?You make assumptions about other people and hold your self to be some supper arbitrator of any one who considers a dating a woman from another culture. As the most recent example your snide comments directed to Barbossa's partner.
A certain amount of logic dictates certain probabilities. Either she knew and is complicit, therefore a liar, or she didn't know and is just too naive for a Ukrainian girl that isn't a little dim. Those comments were not snide.
AJ, Jone et al,
You are dancing all around this topic but you've disregarded the most important point: the vast majority of the major IMB's customers lack the experience, the intelligence, the social skills and the financial strength to get themselves an FSU bride from any source. Conversely, bride-searchers with experience, intelligence, social skills and financial strength can and do find brides anywhere.
AD has arguably the poorest reputation in the business but a few men have still managed to marry some of their girls. In reality, the reports of shady business practices mean little because their target demographic consists mostly of men who are so challenged that they chat with smoking-hot teens with whom they have no chance. Given this, failure is inevitable. The marriages to AD girls mean little, as well, because these capable men could have found wives anywhere.
At the end of the day, success or failure comes down to what the parties bring to the table, not on which agency takes their money.
Why do you think I have "dodgy principles" exactly? Because I don't scam people? Because I try to point out the flaws in other people's thinking?You make assumptions about other people and hold your self to be some supper arbitrator of any one who considers a dating a woman from another culture. As the most recent example your snide comments directed to Barbossa's partner.
A certain amount of logic dictates certain probabilities. Either she knew and is complicit, therefore a liar, or she didn't know and is just too naive for a Ukrainian girl that isn't a little dim. Those comments were not snide.
Still trying? - Please give it up - do you want me to reference further back to your (all)most ASO comments?
You are so washed up there is an understanding who you are.
Yes you can make positive input but it is limited when you do not think.
Perhaps stop being the parrot?
Ade, My impression you are decent guy (chap) put on thinking boots. Av
(untrue story)
I have a girlfriend, we are planning to be married. She works with a mafiya outfit, their main business is selling drugs, her job is to do the accounting for the business, she collects the money and pays the street level dealers.
Nothing wrong with that of course, she is not a drug dealer, she thinks selling drugs is wrong, she promised me she had never sold drugs and I believe her.
It will be good to take her out of that environment and make an honest woman of her.
lol. Precisely.
Of course, there will be many men here that will think that way. In fact, this thread seems to be a case in point.
WTF are you talking about? Seriously, with the gibberish that those fingers of yours manage to type sometimes, I really have to wonder if you've spent a little too long in one of them Amsterdam Coffee shops sampling smoke, if you know what I mean :-X
WTF are you talking about? Seriously, with the gibberish that those fingers of yours manage to type sometimes, I really have to wonder if you've spent a little too long in one of them Amsterdam Coffee shops sampling smoke, if you know what I mean :-X
Funny thing is when I read about your self styled "RAPIER WIT" the only thing I can see is F....WIT!! :chuckle:
AJ, Jone et al,
You are dancing all around this topic but you've disregarded the most important point: the vast majority of the major IMB's customers lack the experience, the intelligence, the social skills and the financial strength to get themselves an FSU bride from any source. Conversely, bride-searchers with experience, intelligence, social skills and financial strength can and do find brides anywhere.
AD has arguably the poorest reputation in the business but a few men have still managed to marry some of their girls. In reality, the reports of shady business practices mean little because their target demographic consists mostly of men who are so challenged that they chat with smoking-hot teens with whom they have no chance. Given this, failure is inevitable. The marriages to AD girls mean little, as well, because these capable men could have found wives anywhere.
At the end of the day, success or failure comes down to what the parties bring to the table, not on which agency takes their money.
Tom,
Ultimately, I have to agree with you. That is why there are so few examples of men who marry women from Anastasia Date on the website. Those who are socially or financially challenged will probably not win the hand of the woman. And those who are sophisticated enough to beat the system would not want to put their faces with such an endeavor. I was caught by the eye candy, initially. I hunted in this forest because I already had experience here. There are so many different options of where to find women. As my old schoolmate would say 'it's what you know'.
While the men from lower financial strata or lower social sets will come spend their money as if throwing it away at an un-winnable county fair game, the true losers are the women. They are teased with money and pictures and promos. Many of them, in spite of the ethics involved or money received, still want to marry a western man. They will be used up and spit out by the great money machine. Their profiles probably will live on and on unless specifically requested to be removed. And the image online that is shared is much better than reality because it is photo shopped and enhanced.
Why do you think I have "dodgy principles" exactly? Because I don't scam people? Because I try to point out the flaws in other people's thinking?You make assumptions about other people and hold your self to be some supper arbitrator of any one who considers a dating a woman from another culture. As the most recent example your snide comments directed to Barbossa's partner.
A certain amount of logic dictates certain probabilities. Either she knew and is complicit, therefore a liar, or she didn't know and is just too naive for a Ukrainian girl that isn't a little dim. Those comments were not snide.
Still trying? - Please give it up - do you want me to reference further back to your (all)most ASO comments?
You are so washed up there is an understanding who you are.
Yes you can make positive input but it is limited when you do not think.
Perhaps stop being the parrot?
Ade, My impression you are decent guy (chap) put on thinking boots. Av
WTF are you talking about? Seriously, with the gibberish that those fingers of yours manage to type sometimes, I really have to wonder if you've spent a little too long in one of them Amsterdam Coffee shops sampling smoke, if you know what I mean :-X
On reflection I am finding it hard to understand the attitude of some posters here who have 'made an honest woman' of some of these workers. In the context their attitudes seem somewhat conflicted.
I’m finding it hard to understand why guys like you, Ade and TomT even visit this site, let alone contribute. Ya'll ever thought of starting your own forum where you could preen and embellish each other uninterrupted?
I’m finding it hard to understand why guys like you, Ade and TomT even visit this site, let alone contribute. Ya'll ever thought of starting your own forum where you could preen and embellish each other uninterrupted?
Others find it hard to understand why sex tourists take time out from their charitable endeavors to tap out the odd quip.
If I am not mistaken Vinny clearly asked to stop the reference to him as a sex tourist. No one provided any proof when he asked for it so maybe we can try to stay closer to the question of the thread.
My takeaway from those who managed to 'make an honest woman' of these women working in the environment portrayed is this:
The guys would not have met these women if they had not been working in the environment in which they were.
The women were working in the environment and, unless dumb as a box of rocks would have known exactly what they were participating in.
As a result of the womens' paid participation relationships grew up.
If what we are told is correct then it is a GOOD THING for which AnastasisDate should be thanked. They should be encouraged to pay women to work at communicating with blokes because it enables people to meet who would never have otherwise met.
In the context their attitudes seem somewhat conflicted.
Whether any given person would want to be engaged with a person who works in such a manner is a matter best left for those couples involved. I know where I stand on the matter but that's my business and comes down to our own individual moral and ethical perspective. (and maybe how desperate one might be to compromise when driven to attain a given goal).
My view of AD is that they are a company that has very skillfully exploited a market. Undoubtedly, some of the products that they are selling have not been represented correctly.
If I had to give an opinion about whether or not this is a scam, I would have to answer in the affirmative. If I had to give an opinion about whether or not they are "real," I would have to answer in the affirmative also. Based on a guesstimate of a 1% "success" rate, this suggests that there is a whole lot more of the former going on than the latter. The confounding factor, however, is that there is no way to know the percentage of the men that bring/brought failure upon themselves.
Vinny knows where the Report-to-Moderator button is located.
On reflection I am finding it hard to understand the attitude of some posters here who have 'made an honest woman' of some of these workers. In the context their attitudes seem somewhat conflicted.
I’m finding it hard to understand why guys like you, Ade and TomT even visit this site, let alone contribute. Ya'll ever thought of starting your own forum where you could preen and embellish each other uninterrupted?
AJ, Jone et al,
You are dancing all around this topic but you've disregarded the most important point:
....
As a result of the womens' paid participation relationships grew up.
If what we are told is correct then it is a GOOD THING for which AnastasisDate should be thanked. They should be encouraged to pay women to work at communicating with blokes because it enables people to meet who would never have otherwise met.
In the context their attitudes seem somewhat conflicted.
I’m finding it hard to understand why guys like you, Ade and TomT even visit this site, let alone contribute. Ya'll ever thought of starting your own forum where you could preen and embellish each other uninterrupted?
Others find it hard to understand why sex tourists take time out from their charitable endeavors to tap out the odd quip.
Could you 2 please get a private room? To see all this sucking is embarrassing in public.
He doesn't want a beer, he wants a box of krispy kreme donuts! :thumbsup:
He doesn't want a beer, he wants a box of krispy kreme donuts! :thumbsup:
Said the guy who has never used a picture of himself on this website. No bells to ring,HunchAnt? :chuckle:
He doesn't want a beer, he wants a box of krispy kreme donuts! :thumbsup:
Said the guy who has never used a picture of himself on this website. No bells to ring,HunchAnt? :chuckle:
Ant is a physically fit, good looking fella. It's his personality that's the problem.
Ant is a physically fit, good looking fella.So where is a pic? :knit:
QuoteAnt is a physically fit, good looking fella.So where is a pic? :knit:
QuoteAnt is a physically fit, good looking fella.So where is a pic? :knit:
It's one of the worst dating websites one can use.Yes the worst, equally with allsinglerussiangirls/datingandmatchmaking.
He doesn't want a beer, he wants a box of krispy kreme donuts! :thumbsup:
Said the guy who has never used a picture of himself on this website. No bells to ring,HunchAnt? :chuckle:
QuoteAnt is a physically fit, good looking fella.So where is a pic? :knit:
It was passed in confidence but with eyes like that I'm sure he'll be more than happy to provide you with a copy. But you know what they say, don't fall in love with a picture. :)
QuoteAnt is a physically fit, good looking fella.So where is a pic? :knit:
It was passed in confidence but with eyes like that I'm sure he'll be more than happy to provide you with a copy. But you know what they say, don't fall in love with a picture. :)
Who sent you a photo? Are you sure it's me? Could be a photo of a male model I posted. :king: :duh:
QuoteAnt is a physically fit, good looking fella.So where is a pic? :knit:
It was passed in confidence but with eyes like that I'm sure he'll be more than happy to provide you with a copy. But you know what they say, don't fall in love with a picture. :)
Who sent you a photo? Are you sure it's me? Could be a photo of a male model I posted. :king: :duh:
Who said I was sent a photo?
After looking at Adate for a few nights it would seem that Zaporozhye might be a new ( or not) spot for crooked agencies. I seem to get a disproportionate number of chat invites from that city.
After looking at Adate for a few nights it would seem that Zaporozhye might be a new ( or not) spot for crooked agencies. I seem to get a disproportionate number of chat invites from that city.
I dated a girl from that dump once. She admitted to being a pro dater and thought she was only helping out a friends business, whilst she grasped the opportunity to potentially meet Mr Right.
Had a great time but a complete head fcuk trying to manage my feelings for a girl I couldn't trust. We fell for each other but rather predictably it became complicated.
Yea it was a real help on this occasion, I was a fortunate little liar.
Everything alright at home?
Good Lord...Oh, I love it! :ROFL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I52PUKd77ZA#!
Good Lord...Oh, I love it! :ROFL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I52PUKd77ZA#!
CONSUMER ALERT:
Please Avoid AnastasiaDate! - Do Not do any business with these scammers. Anastasia started Foreign International Dating during the early 1990's and these are the very same hucksters that have thrashed this entire Industry now.
CONSUMER ALERT:
Please Avoid AnastasiaDate! - Do Not do any business with these scammers. Anastasia started Foreign International Dating during the early 1990's and these are the very same hucksters that have thrashed this entire Industry now.
What exactly is your experience as a customer of the company?
CONSUMER ALERT:
Please Avoid AnastasiaDate! - Do Not do any business with these scammers. Anastasia started Foreign International Dating during the early 1990's and these are the very same hucksters that have thrashed this entire Industry now.
What exactly is your experience as a customer of the company?
CONSUMER ALERT:
Please Avoid AnastasiaDate! - Do Not do any business with these scammers. Anastasia started Foreign International Dating during the early 1990's and these are the very same hucksters that have thrashed this entire Industry now.
What exactly is your experience as a customer of the company?
Are you implying andrew, that his is the same level as yours?
zero?
Bill, if somebody were to call you an idiot, or something worse, it would not be unreasonable to ask the basis of that person's imputation. It wouldn't much matter whether I agreed with him or not. Same here, and, if I remember correctly, the poster never did tell us the basis for his claim.
Bill, a little thought is a wonderful thing and can often stop us from seeming to be idiots or worse.
The guy spent $25,000 with the company. That was his basis for experience. Perhaps that could also be the source of his imputation? (Why confuse yourself with the facts?)
The guy spent $25,000 with the company. That was his basis for experience. Perhaps that could also be the source of his imputation? (Why confuse yourself with the facts?)
If a man sent $25,000 to a Nigerian scammer, does the experience make him knowledgeable about Africa?
Okay, let's examine Tom's brilliant analogy here.
Okay, let's examine Tom's brilliant analogy here.
If a man shoots himself in the foot, and eventually has it amputated due to gangrene, does this make him knowledgeable about surgery?
I hope that you like that one better.
People ought to take responsibility for their foolish actions, no?
The guy spent $25,000 with the company. That was his basis for experience. Perhaps that could also be the source of his imputation? (Why confuse yourself with the facts?)With the information that member provided the only experience that this guy (BudE) could possibly offer is how to spend a vast amount of money and have nothing to show for it - like a gambler who consistently loses!!
So, on one side, we have a guy who has spent $25,000 as a customer of this agency. And on the other side we have a guy who has never been a customer of theirs questioning what knowledge he has of the company.
but I recovered all!
Here is a general rule that, sadly, holds true more often than not:
If you write to a drop-dead gorgeous girl and she ignores you, she is sincere.
If she responds, she is a scammer.
The moral of this story is that we guarantee our failure by the choices that we make.
Here is a general rule that, sadly, holds true more often than not:Really good post Tom. Succinct yet totally accurate.
If you write to a drop-dead gorgeous girl and she ignores you, she is sincere.
If she responds, she is a scammer.
The moral of this story is that we guarantee our failure by the choices that we make.
Your memory is failing you Tom. Go back and read what I wrote about Alisa (the 9, VS caliber legs and stomach) relative to what I wrote about Marina (the 7) and why right now I am communicating much more with Marina (the 7).
Your memory is failing you Tom. Go back and read what I wrote about Alisa (the 9, VS caliber legs and stomach) relative to what I wrote about Marina (the 7) and why right now I am communicating much more with Marina (the 7).
Your memory is failing you Tom. Go back and read what I wrote about Alisa (the 9, VS caliber legs and stomach) relative to what I wrote about Marina (the 7) and why right now I am communicating much more with Marina (the 7).
Your memory is failing you Tom. Go back and read what I wrote about Alisa (the 9, VS caliber legs and stomach) relative to what I wrote about Marina (the 7) and why right now I am communicating much more with Marina (the 7).
Ladies are NOT numbers, they are human beings just like the rest of us.. :coffeeread:
Not pointing fingers at any site (since I met my fiancee online) but the rule is mainly to stay away from the sites who work with a PPL system (pay per letter).
Every message sent and received will cost credits (expensive ones), the majority of these messages come from operators who manage up to 10 profiles.
The girls on the profiles are being paid for their photo's and won't be in 90% of the cases the ones you are chatting with.
Find-bride is first and Elena's Models is last according to this review list. :-\
https://russiandatingreviews.com/
Find-bride is first and Elena's Models is last according to this review list. :-\
https://russiandatingreviews.com/
That site is probably ran by the pay to play sites.