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General Discussion => General Chat => Topic started by: Maxx on July 22, 2017, 03:49:11 AM

Title: Not so good to be German
Post by: Maxx on July 22, 2017, 03:49:11 AM
I found this article interesting. As Johnny Carson used to say, "I didn't know that."

Why is everything so cheap in Germany?
Kai Melling
Kai Melling, studied at Saarland University
Updated Jun 8

(http://i65.tinypic.com/2ch9r9h.jpg)

It is one of the most persistent myths that Germans are rich. Germany is a rich country - alas, with poor inhabitants. Although our economy is the biggest in Europe, the Germans are the poorest people in Western Europe. Even the Irish and the Italians are richer than we are. It stops at Spain and Portugal.

We are taxed to death.

Wages in Germany came under severe pressure due to the labour market reforms by the Schröder administration. Wages in most G20 countries increased 2000 - 2009, but in Germany they plummeted.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/3506xi1.jpg)

Despite the strong economy, the number of impoverished Germans has been steadily increasing. Figures from a European-wide study released in 2012 show one in six people are at risk of poverty.


That is considerably more than in Germany’s neighbouring countries, the Czech Republic and France.

The figures from the German Office of National Statistics (Destatis) and Eurostat, showed 16.1 percent of Germans were at risk of falling into relative poverty, compared to 9.6 percent in the Czech Republic, 10.1 percent in the Netherlands and 14.1 percent in France.

It also suggested that relative poverty in Germany has been rising in spite of the robust economy and falling unemployment. Back in 2005, the number of people at risk of poverty was 12.2 percent. That figure had risen to 16.1 percent in 2011.

The study defined people earning less than 60 percent of the median income as at risk of poverty. By that measure a single person earning less than €980 a month and a family with two children on less than €2,058 a month were at risk of poverty in Germany.

Average (blue) and median (red) distribution of wealth per household:

(http://i63.tinypic.com/29yqbeh.jpg)

Germany has the lowest rate of houseowners in Europe.

Considering the wealth per household, the German modell looks even worse than before. Now even the Spaniards overtake us.

And just to be sure, one more time the median distribution of wealth per household:

(http://i68.tinypic.com/2ikxfo5.jpg)

Quorans complaining that the Germans get things in return, like free health care, defense, infrastructure, school, reirement plans etc miss the point. The French enjoy the same good health as the Germans. They also enjoy the same amount of security and their infrastructure is in better shape.

The number of German pensioners working “mini-jobs” to supplement their income has risen by 60 percent from 2000 to 2012. The figures prompted warnings of an old-age poverty epidemic.

In 2000, 280,000 pensioners had the €400-a-month jobs, which are exempt from taxes and national insurance contributions. This figure has risen to around 761,000 in 2012.

And of these, 120,000 were 75 and older. A further 154,000 people of pensionable age are working in more lucrative positions – twice as many as since then end of 1999 – and 80,000 of these are working full time.

When it comes to employed over-75s, they are rarely university professors who fancy keeping up their job, rather pensioners who are delivering papers, stacking supermarket shelves and doing other unattractive jobs to subsidise their measly pension.

The average monthly pension payment is dropping. In 2000, an average person who took retirement after paying into the system for 35 years would have been set to receive €1,021 a month. By 2011, this had sunk to €953.

Retirement income is in fact further evidence how Germans get dispossessed by their own government. In this respect, Germany lags not only behind the European Union average, but also behind the OECD average. In fact, with a net replacement rate of 50%, it even lags behind Poland.

Net pension replacement rates:

(http://i63.tinypic.com/6fp9aw.jpg)

Pensions - Net pension replacement rates - OECD Data

The net replacement rate is defined as the individual net pension entitlement divided by net pre-retirement earnings, taking into account personal income taxes and social security contributions paid by workers and pensioners. It measures how effectively a pension system provides a retirement income to replace earnings, the main source of income before retirement. This indicator is measured in percentage of pre-retirement earnings and can be used to determine the effectiveness of the pension system.
85.6k Views · 523 Upvotes
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Ste on July 22, 2017, 05:26:14 AM
Just shows that there are lies, damn lies and statistics...

I've worked and lived in UK, Ireland, Germany, Switzerland and Denmark in the last few years (go where the work is, me!).

Of all those places I'd say, in terms of just how 'rich' people seem, Denmark was the most well-off, followed by Switzerland and Germany, UK then Ireland. Ireland is just about the most taxed place I've ever lived, the UK most debt-ridden, DE/CH more less work/life separate, but for me Denmark was the happiest/nicest/most worry free place. Boring though. Oddly enough here in Ireland despite tax/tax/tax and it being similar in feel to UK, it's not boring!

Fair to say also that in most European countries renting is normal, certainly in Germany, the UK and Ireland (still suffering with the fallout of the Celtic Tiger crash) has followed USA in creating a world of wealth and debt in owning a house. I was brought up in the 70's when a house was where you lived, not an asset who's value you gloat over and brag about.

Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Maxx on July 22, 2017, 05:50:09 AM
Just shows that there are lies, damn lies and statistics...

I've worked and lived in UK, Ireland, Germany, Switzerland and Denmark in the last few years (go where the work is, me!).

Of all those places I'd say, in terms of just how 'rich' people seem, Denmark was the most well-off, followed by Switzerland and Germany, UK then Ireland. Ireland is just about the most taxed place I've ever lived, the UK most debt-ridden, DE/CH more less work/life separate, but for me Denmark was the happiest/nicest/most worry free place. Boring though. Oddly enough here in Ireland despite tax/tax/tax and it being similar in feel to UK, it's not boring!

Fair to say also that in most European countries renting is normal, certainly in Germany, the UK and Ireland (still suffering with the fallout of the Celtic Tiger crash) has followed USA in creating a world of wealth and debt in owning a house. I was brought up in the 70's when a house was where you lived, not an asset who's value you gloat over and brag about.

Thanks Ste. Yesterday I was shopping in a Tbilisi mall. Lots of those micro shops there. I went to this shop to buy some clothes and they realized I only knew English went and got an interpreter. She was a 13 year old girl about to enter 8th grade. While everyone was out fetching clothes for me throughout the mall we sat out in the lobby and talked about the pluses and minuses of living in America. She told me her greatest dream was to live in America. I told her about the high prices and how people can be poor making $3000 a month in income. Super smart kid but I could tell she just didn't get it.

You know Ste when I read this article I thought of the US. So many poor people struggling to live. Yet like Germany we let in people take the welfare benefits while we deny our own. I know this is true because I have family member affected. Why isn't there pressure on Saudi Arabia and other rich Muslim counties to provide for their own?
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Ste on July 22, 2017, 06:03:27 AM
Just shows that there are lies, damn lies and statistics...

I've worked and lived in UK, Ireland, Germany, Switzerland and Denmark in the last few years (go where the work is, me!).

Of all those places I'd say, in terms of just how 'rich' people seem, Denmark was the most well-off, followed by Switzerland and Germany, UK then Ireland. Ireland is just about the most taxed place I've ever lived, the UK most debt-ridden, DE/CH more less work/life separate, but for me Denmark was the happiest/nicest/most worry free place. Boring though. Oddly enough here in Ireland despite tax/tax/tax and it being similar in feel to UK, it's not boring!

Fair to say also that in most European countries renting is normal, certainly in Germany, the UK and Ireland (still suffering with the fallout of the Celtic Tiger crash) has followed USA in creating a world of wealth and debt in owning a house. I was brought up in the 70's when a house was where you lived, not an asset who's value you gloat over and brag about.

Thanks Ste. Yesterday I was shopping in a Tbilisi mall. Lots of those micro shops there. I went to this shop to buy some clothes and they realized I only knew English went and got an interpreter. She was a 13 year old girl about to enter 8th grade. While everyone was out fetching clothes for me throughout the mall we sat out in the lobby and talked about the pluses and minuses of living in America. She told me her greatest dream was to live in America. I told her about the high prices and how people can be poor making $3000 a month in income. Super smart kid but I could tell she just didn't get it.

I know what you mean, babushka whilst no Stalinist, very much preferred life under USSR, she said she had flat, health, holiday time, utilities, transport etc all free, her salary was just for food and to spend, no worries about putting aside, pension provisions, medical insurance, etc.

That's an ideal for living, but unfortunately takes no account of material desires, natural competitiveness, etc, but it's a way of life worth considering. People assume because I'm socialist I want to just share everything out equally, but it's not about that, it's about people having the same opportunities, either they succeed or fail, but they shouldn't be thrown on the scrapheap at one end or vilified at the other.

Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Contrarian on July 22, 2017, 10:51:49 AM
The goal of Globalists is to bring all wages down to the level of the BRICS, so if German wages have been falling and become more in line with other european nations it shouldn't be a big surprise.

The more obvious way that Germans have suffered is that they've had their national identity and cultural identity co-opted by others with an agenda to inflict guilt on Germans and to profit from it.



quote
"Although the speech was well-received by young patriots, some remarks did not go over well with the ruling class. Höcke had been bold enough to suggest that

Instead of focusing primarily on those twelve dark years of the country’s history, German youth should be allowed to develop a positive identity by remembering and honoring the achievements of Germany’s numerous composers, poets and philosophers, of which the country had produced perhaps more than any other.
Germany was the only country in the world that had decided to plant a ‘monument of shame’ in the heart of its capital, and had made the most horrible event in its history the foundation of its national identity.
The Allied fire-bombing of Dresden was a war crime comparable to the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The guilt cult, however, allowed for a portrayal of Germans as perpetrators only, preventing them from mourning their own victims.
The press reacted “with disgust and horror” — as if Höcke had denied the Holocaust (which he didn’t). Although Höcke had remained rather factual in his description of the status quo without attacking anyone in particular, vocabulary from the familiar arsenal of curses was hurled at him: “Nazi”, “right-wing extremist”, “Goebbels”, “hard right”, “populist”, “nationalist”, “national Romantic”, and so on and so forth. In an article by Amanda Taub and Max Fischer in the New York Times, his brownish-grey hair suddenly turned blonde, more or less subtly conjuring up images of the blonde Germanic beast, familiar from countless anti-German Hollywood productions and books."

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2017/01/31/bjorn-hocke-and-the-potential-return-of-sanity-in-german-politics/
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: AvHdB on July 22, 2017, 03:44:44 PM
The goal of Globalists is to bring all wages down to the level of the BRICS, so if German wages have been falling and become more in line with other european nations it shouldn't be a big surprise.

The more obvious way that Germans have suffered is that they've had their national identity and cultural identity co-opted by others with an agenda to inflict guilt on Germans and to profit from it.

quote
"Although the speech was well-received by young patriots, some remarks did not go over well with the ruling class. Höcke had been bold enough to suggest that

Instead of focusing primarily on those twelve dark years of the country’s history, German youth should be allowed to develop a positive identity by remembering and honoring the achievements of Germany’s numerous composers, poets and philosophers, of which the country had produced perhaps more than any other.
Germany was the only country in the world that had decided to plant a ‘monument of shame’ in the heart of its capital, and had made the most horrible event in its history the foundation of its national identity.
The Allied fire-bombing of Dresden was a war crime comparable to the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The guilt cult, however, allowed for a portrayal of Germans as perpetrators only, preventing them from mourning their own victims.
The press reacted “with disgust and horror” — as if Höcke had denied the Holocaust (which he didn’t). Although Höcke had remained rather factual in his description of the status quo without attacking anyone in particular, vocabulary from the familiar arsenal of curses was hurled at him: “Nazi”, “right-wing extremist”, “Goebbels”, “hard right”, “populist”, “nationalist”, “national Romantic”, and so on and so forth. In an article by Amanda Taub and Max Fischer in the New York Times, his brownish-grey hair suddenly turned blonde, more or less subtly conjuring up images of the blonde Germanic beast, familiar from countless anti-German Hollywood productions and books."

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2017/01/31/bjorn-hocke-and-the-potential-return-of-sanity-in-german-politics/

For a number of decades products from Germany were superior to those from the United States, Japan or China. This disparity has largely eroded in the last ten or so years, the rest of the world has caught up. The economy of Germany which largely drives the Euro zone has and is suffering. But Germans are pragmatic and realistic and they are adjusting.

On the other side from my perspective I am very much opposed to any attempt to ignore German murder, mayhem or genocide for 12 years. And with the same breath I think the attempts to whitewash Stalin are repulsive. On the other side the march of Sherman left too much civilian devastation and death.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Slumba on July 22, 2017, 03:51:22 PM
Unfortunately, due to Merkel's treason, you have to drop out the the ne'er-do-well Turks and the more recent Muslim and African arrivals. 

How well are ethnic Germans doing? They are being tossed by the wayside due to the society-destroying behavior of the new arrivals.

My understanding is that if you are the equivalent of a "Boomer" in Germany and were born in West Germany, you are doing OK. East Germans, no matter the age, did not have the same abilities to create and store wealth.  Younger Germans are also getting shafted.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: AvHdB on July 22, 2017, 03:56:54 PM
Unfortunately, due to Merkel's treason, you have to drop out the the ne'er-do-well Turks and the more recent Muslim and African arrivals. 

How well are ethnic Germans doing? They are being tossed by the wayside due to the society-destroying behavior of the new arrivals.

My understanding is that if you are the equivalent of a "Boomer" in Germany and were born in West Germany, you are doing OK. East Germans, no matter the age, did not have the same abilities to create and store wealth.  Younger Germans are also getting shafted.

Curious when were you the last in Germany; East, West, South or North?
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Ste on July 22, 2017, 04:35:44 PM
The goal of Globalists is to bring all wages down to the level of the BRICS, so if German wages have been falling and become more in line with other european nations it shouldn't be a big surprise.

The more obvious way that Germans have suffered is that they've had their national identity and cultural identity co-opted by others with an agenda to inflict guilt on Germans and to profit from it.

quote
"Although the speech was well-received by young patriots, some remarks did not go over well with the ruling class. Höcke had been bold enough to suggest that

Instead of focusing primarily on those twelve dark years of the country’s history, German youth should be allowed to develop a positive identity by remembering and honoring the achievements of Germany’s numerous composers, poets and philosophers, of which the country had produced perhaps more than any other.
Germany was the only country in the world that had decided to plant a ‘monument of shame’ in the heart of its capital, and had made the most horrible event in its history the foundation of its national identity.
The Allied fire-bombing of Dresden was a war crime comparable to the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The guilt cult, however, allowed for a portrayal of Germans as perpetrators only, preventing them from mourning their own victims.
The press reacted “with disgust and horror” — as if Höcke had denied the Holocaust (which he didn’t). Although Höcke had remained rather factual in his description of the status quo without attacking anyone in particular, vocabulary from the familiar arsenal of curses was hurled at him: “Nazi”, “right-wing extremist”, “Goebbels”, “hard right”, “populist”, “nationalist”, “national Romantic”, and so on and so forth. In an article by Amanda Taub and Max Fischer in the New York Times, his brownish-grey hair suddenly turned blonde, more or less subtly conjuring up images of the blonde Germanic beast, familiar from countless anti-German Hollywood productions and books."

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2017/01/31/bjorn-hocke-and-the-potential-return-of-sanity-in-german-politics/

For a number of decades products from Germany were superior to those from the United States, Japan or China. This disparity has largely eroded in the last ten or so years, the rest of the world has caught up. The economy of Germany which largely drives the Euro zone has and is suffering. But Germans are pragmatic and realistic and they are adjusting.

On the other side from my perspective I am very much opposed to any attempt to ignore German murder, mayhem or genocide for 12 years. And with the same breath I think the attempts to whitewash Stalin are repulsive. On the other side the march of Sherman left too much civilian devastation and death.

Should also mention Churchill, a monstrous war criminal.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Slumba on July 22, 2017, 04:56:15 PM
The goal of Globalists is to bring all wages down to the level of the BRICS, so if German wages have been falling and become more in line with other european nations it shouldn't be a big surprise.

The more obvious way that Germans have suffered is that they've had their national identity and cultural identity co-opted by others with an agenda to inflict guilt on Germans and to profit from it.

quote
"Although the speech was well-received by young patriots, some remarks did not go over well with the ruling class. Höcke had been bold enough to suggest that

Instead of focusing primarily on those twelve dark years of the country’s history, German youth should be allowed to develop a positive identity by remembering and honoring the achievements of Germany’s numerous composers, poets and philosophers, of which the country had produced perhaps more than any other.
Germany was the only country in the world that had decided to plant a ‘monument of shame’ in the heart of its capital, and had made the most horrible event in its history the foundation of its national identity.
The Allied fire-bombing of Dresden was a war crime comparable to the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The guilt cult, however, allowed for a portrayal of Germans as perpetrators only, preventing them from mourning their own victims.
The press reacted “with disgust and horror” — as if Höcke had denied the Holocaust (which he didn’t). Although Höcke had remained rather factual in his description of the status quo without attacking anyone in particular, vocabulary from the familiar arsenal of curses was hurled at him: “Nazi”, “right-wing extremist”, “Goebbels”, “hard right”, “populist”, “nationalist”, “national Romantic”, and so on and so forth. In an article by Amanda Taub and Max Fischer in the New York Times, his brownish-grey hair suddenly turned blonde, more or less subtly conjuring up images of the blonde Germanic beast, familiar from countless anti-German Hollywood productions and books."

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2017/01/31/bjorn-hocke-and-the-potential-return-of-sanity-in-german-politics/

For a number of decades products from Germany were superior to those from the United States, Japan or China. This disparity has largely eroded in the last ten or so years, the rest of the world has caught up. The economy of Germany which largely drives the Euro zone has and is suffering. But Germans are pragmatic and realistic and they are adjusting.

On the other side from my perspective I am very much opposed to any attempt to ignore German murder, mayhem or genocide for 12 years. And with the same breath I think the attempts to whitewash Stalin are repulsive. On the other side the march of Sherman left too much civilian devastation and death.

Should also mention Churchill, a monstrous war criminal.

When you realize that:

1. exactly zero of the perpetrators of the Dresden bombing faced a Nuremberg war trial, despite building an exact replica of the houses in Dresden and figuring out how best to ignite a firestorm among the houses (not warehouses and factories)

and

2. Julius Streicher, who never served in the military, never engaged in anything other than newspaper and book publishing during the Nazi years, and was hanged (but we are constantly told of Nazi book burnings, hmmm?)

Then you realize that Nuremberg was not justice and law, but simply politics.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Ste on July 22, 2017, 05:27:01 PM
The goal of Globalists is to bring all wages down to the level of the BRICS, so if German wages have been falling and become more in line with other european nations it shouldn't be a big surprise.

The more obvious way that Germans have suffered is that they've had their national identity and cultural identity co-opted by others with an agenda to inflict guilt on Germans and to profit from it.

quote
"Although the speech was well-received by young patriots, some remarks did not go over well with the ruling class. Höcke had been bold enough to suggest that

Instead of focusing primarily on those twelve dark years of the country’s history, German youth should be allowed to develop a positive identity by remembering and honoring the achievements of Germany’s numerous composers, poets and philosophers, of which the country had produced perhaps more than any other.
Germany was the only country in the world that had decided to plant a ‘monument of shame’ in the heart of its capital, and had made the most horrible event in its history the foundation of its national identity.
The Allied fire-bombing of Dresden was a war crime comparable to the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The guilt cult, however, allowed for a portrayal of Germans as perpetrators only, preventing them from mourning their own victims.
The press reacted “with disgust and horror” — as if Höcke had denied the Holocaust (which he didn’t). Although Höcke had remained rather factual in his description of the status quo without attacking anyone in particular, vocabulary from the familiar arsenal of curses was hurled at him: “Nazi”, “right-wing extremist”, “Goebbels”, “hard right”, “populist”, “nationalist”, “national Romantic”, and so on and so forth. In an article by Amanda Taub and Max Fischer in the New York Times, his brownish-grey hair suddenly turned blonde, more or less subtly conjuring up images of the blonde Germanic beast, familiar from countless anti-German Hollywood productions and books."

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2017/01/31/bjorn-hocke-and-the-potential-return-of-sanity-in-german-politics/

For a number of decades products from Germany were superior to those from the United States, Japan or China. This disparity has largely eroded in the last ten or so years, the rest of the world has caught up. The economy of Germany which largely drives the Euro zone has and is suffering. But Germans are pragmatic and realistic and they are adjusting.

On the other side from my perspective I am very much opposed to any attempt to ignore German murder, mayhem or genocide for 12 years. And with the same breath I think the attempts to whitewash Stalin are repulsive. On the other side the march of Sherman left too much civilian devastation and death.

Should also mention Churchill, a monstrous war criminal.

When you realize that:

1. exactly zero of the perpetrators of the Dresden bombing faced a Nuremberg war trial, despite building an exact replica of the houses in Dresden and figuring out how best to ignite a firestorm among the houses (not warehouses and factories)

and

2. Julius Streicher, who never served in the military, never engaged in anything other than newspaper and book publishing during the Nazi years, and was hanged (but we are constantly told of Nazi book burnings, hmmm?)

Then you realize that Nuremberg was not justice and law, but simply politics.

You sure about that? I've read quite a few books on the Dresden bombings and WW2 bombing in general and bombing accuracy right to the end was woeful, can't remember the stats but it was something like 80% of bombs missed the city or town completely die to port sights, weather and 'creep'. Pathfinders helped though later in the war and you could well be correct in what you say. I've been to Dresden too, saw the Frauenkirche, Semper Opern and the Palace thing...

I think Hamburg was more comprehensively firebombed in 1943, in the books I read though the consensus is that it was more luck (for the RAF, back luck for the locals) that were the main factor here.

Going back to Dresden I think whilst the RAF send over more planes, it was the USAAF that did most of the damage in the daylight raid the morning after, most refresh my memory with a quick pre-bed time Google!

Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: AvHdB on July 22, 2017, 05:44:36 PM
Perhaps I should mention the bombing of Rotterdam, by the Nazis.

Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Ste on July 22, 2017, 05:56:37 PM
Perhaps I should mention the bombing of Rotterdam, by the Nazis.

And Coventry, even gave rise to a verb in German, coventrieren - to devaste by bombing.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Slumba on July 22, 2017, 05:56:49 PM

You sure about that? I've read quite a few books on the Dresden bombings and WW2 bombing in general and bombing accuracy right to the end was woeful, can't remember the stats but it was something like 80% of bombs missed the city or town completely die to port sights, weather and 'creep'. Pathfinders helped though later in the war and you could well be correct in what you say. I've been to Dresden too, saw the Frauenkirche, Semper Opern and the Palace thing...

I think Hamburg was more comprehensively firebombed in 1943, in the books I read though the consensus is that it was more luck (for the RAF, back luck for the locals) that were the main factor here.

Going back to Dresden I think whilst the RAF send over more planes, it was the USAAF that did most of the damage in the daylight raid the morning after, most refresh my memory with a quick pre-bed time Google!

This describes it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Village_(Dugway_proving_ground)

They hired emigre Germans, familiar with this kind of housing, to design and build the replicas. They even replicated the interiors, complete with typical furnishings, trying to ensure that a firestorm effect would be achieved.  Note that this was specifically a plan to bomb residential buildings, not factories.  Deliberate targeting of civilians even during wartime is what occurred in this instance.

You could make a case that FDR was a war criminal IMHO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_bombardment_and_international_law#International_law_up_to_1945
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: rw_recruiter on July 22, 2017, 07:26:21 PM
The atrocities from the Russian side were some of the worst. Forcing German troops to dance like Cossacks is beyond unforgivable.

(https://i.imgur.com/JjRGehi.png)
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Contrarian on July 22, 2017, 09:28:33 PM
The atrocities from the Russian side were some of the worst. Forcing German troops to dance like Cossacks is beyond unforgivable.

(https://i.imgur.com/JjRGehi.png)

That photo is from WWI, but yeah.... :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Ste on July 23, 2017, 03:16:00 AM

You sure about that? I've read quite a few books on the Dresden bombings and WW2 bombing in general and bombing accuracy right to the end was woeful, can't remember the stats but it was something like 80% of bombs missed the city or town completely die to port sights, weather and 'creep'. Pathfinders helped though later in the war and you could well be correct in what you say. I've been to Dresden too, saw the Frauenkirche, Semper Opern and the Palace thing...

I think Hamburg was more comprehensively firebombed in 1943, in the books I read though the consensus is that it was more luck (for the RAF, back luck for the locals) that were the main factor here.

Going back to Dresden I think whilst the RAF send over more planes, it was the USAAF that did most of the damage in the daylight raid the morning after, most refresh my memory with a quick pre-bed time Google!

This describes it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Village_(Dugway_proving_ground)

They hired emigre Germans, familiar with this kind of housing, to design and build the replicas. They even replicated the interiors, complete with typical furnishings, trying to ensure that a firestorm effect would be achieved.  Note that this was specifically a plan to bomb residential buildings, not factories.  Deliberate targeting of civilians even during wartime is what occurred in this instance.

You could make a case that FDR was a war criminal IMHO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_bombardment_and_international_law#International_law_up_to_1945

Ahh this is in USA. I think the British realised pretty early on that even getting the bomb to hit hit the city was a laudable task, especially considering we bombed at night, which the Yanks thought was crazy, The Americans bombed at day, which the Brits though was crazy, having endured heavy losses trying it, as did the USAAF until fighter escort was possible.

But even the super accurate Norden sight was useless in the European weather, indeed some of the USAAF planes on the Dresden raid missed Dresden altogether and bombed Prague.

Interesting link but I still think both the Hamburg and Dresden firestorms were flukes.

When I was in Dresden went to see the fountain the people dived into to escape the firestorm, only to be boiled alive instead. Can't actually picture it now though, they were doing a lot of digging in the city centre then for archeological remains and everything had been moved around.

The bombing of Dresden was done at the behest of Stalin, as it was agreed that as the war was being won, and to appease the Russians, they'd be allowed to enter Berlin first, and needed a clear run, the objective being, as Dresden was a rail hub on he Eastern side, to stop German troop movements.

Not a lot to be proud of in this.


Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: AvHdB on July 23, 2017, 04:05:30 AM
Not a lot to be proud of in this.

That is the truth, in hindsight.

I also have a number of times been to Dresden and Liepzig, I wanted to walk around the same streets that had the 'footprints' of J. S. Bach. The first time the Fraeunkirche was not rebuilt. It was a sobering walk. The book by K. Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse Five is based on the Dresden Fire bombing.

There are two other comments, there was a civil legal trial in California against the US government that attempted to declare the bombing a war crime. It was as I understand found that the United States acted legally. I met in Kiev one of the principal lawyers who was gathering evidence in Ukraine. The United States via an Allied (American) base in what is now Ukraine used to fly bombing missions over Europe.

If any one wants to know more about Dresden, do some research of C. D. Friedrich, L. Beethoven and W. v. Goethe and the so-called Romantic period. What I did not know Dresden & Liepzig were part of the Slavic region, being the Western edge.


Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Contrarian on July 23, 2017, 07:46:09 AM
There are plenty of meme's about bankers financing both sides of war; which they may do. However this seems to be an oversimplification of the problem.

Europeans were warring against each other for hundreds if not a thousand years. They've finally had peace in Europe, for the most part for the past 77 years.

They now face a new type of invader, one which treasonous pols like Merkel and Macron have invited in to their fair shores.

This is an interesting article about Prescott Bush and his affiliation with Hitler. This usually gets more notice than say a famous family supporting Communism.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Contrarian on July 23, 2017, 07:59:02 AM
Did the Treaty of Versailles cause the rise of Hitler?

https://www.thoughtco.com/treaty-of-versailles-hitlers-rise-power-1221351
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: ?ManyQuestions? on July 23, 2017, 09:14:42 AM
Did the Treaty of Versailles cause the rise of Hitler?

https://www.thoughtco.com/treaty-of-versailles-hitlers-rise-power-1221351

I would argue that yes, it did cause the rise of Hitler. Germany was broke and the people were starving after World War 1. Plus the Germans were hoping that Woodrow Wilson was going to be fair with them. Instead they got the Treaty of Versailles, whiched forced Germany to pay huge amounts of reparations, which left them even more broke and humiliated. Then when Hitler rose to power, he promised to make Germany a prosperous and proud nation again. Then he delivered on his promise, with food and an improved economy. This allowed Hitler to cement his power in Germany.

Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Contrarian on July 23, 2017, 10:49:40 AM
Did the Treaty of Versailles cause the rise of Hitler?

https://www.thoughtco.com/treaty-of-versailles-hitlers-rise-power-1221351

I would argue that yes, it did cause the rise of Hitler. Germany was broke and the people were starving after World War 1. Plus the Germans were hoping that Woodrow Wilson was going to be fair with them. Instead they got the Treaty of Versailles, whiched forced Germany to pay huge amounts of reparations, which left them even more broke and humiliated. Then when Hitler rose to power, he promised to make Germany a prosperous and proud nation again. Then he delivered on his promise, with food and an improved economy. This allowed Hitler to cement his power in Germany.

Don't tell Av, he thinks the Germans are evil and should be punished. Never mind the elites who wanted to deliberately punish Germany and never mind the treachery of the British and others throughout WWI but especially at the end of it which gave rise to what some call "endless wars" around the World.  :-X
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Slumba on July 23, 2017, 02:44:46 PM
Did the Treaty of Versailles cause the rise of Hitler?

https://www.thoughtco.com/treaty-of-versailles-hitlers-rise-power-1221351

Essentially, yes.  The treaty was too harsh on Germans, caused widespread economic and social problems, which led to political changes.

Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: AvHdB on July 23, 2017, 03:02:04 PM
Did the Treaty of Versailles cause the rise of Hitler?

https://www.thoughtco.com/treaty-of-versailles-hitlers-rise-power-1221351

Essentially, yes.  The treaty was too harsh on Germans, caused widespread economic and social problems, which led to political changes.

Yes the Versailles Treaty certainly added to the woes of Germany, in fact it could very well be the stick that broke the proverbial camels back. During the same time there was a world wide depression which slowed every countries economy. There was rising Nationalism around the world and this added fuel to the fire.

Oddly enough I have seen on RUA posts that have railed against the Marshall Plan and the Truman Doctrine.

I guess the simpletons will post away, yet again.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: AvHdB on July 23, 2017, 03:48:56 PM
Don't tell Av, he thinks the Germans are evil and should be punished. Never mind the elites who wanted to deliberately punish Germany and never mind the treachery of the British and others throughout WWI but especially at the end of it which gave rise to what some call "endless wars" around the World.  :-X

While I have no patience for the fanaticism of some and the ignorance of others.

I thought this might help. > <

"Alle Menschen werden Brüder"
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Contrarian on July 23, 2017, 04:36:20 PM
Don't tell Av, he thinks the Germans are evil and should be punished. Never mind the elites who wanted to deliberately punish Germany and never mind the treachery of the British and others throughout WWI but especially at the end of it which gave rise to what some call "endless wars" around the World.  :-X
While I have no patience for the fanaticism of some and the ignorance of others.

You're off topic as usual and that's not a complete sentence either.

The point of the speech I linked to and why I linked to it is that Germany has done penance for long enough and it's time for Germans to reclaim their culture and move on. Soon enough if Germans are wise they will vote Merkel out of office and begin to reclaim their country from Muslims and others who only wish to destroy it from within.

This place looks very promising; don't be afraid.  :)

https://www.newenglandtreatmentcenter.com
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: AvHdB on July 23, 2017, 05:18:51 PM
Don't tell Av, he thinks the Germans are evil and should be punished. Never mind the elites who wanted to deliberately punish Germany and never mind the treachery of the British and others throughout WWI but especially at the end of it which gave rise to what some call "endless wars" around the World.  :-X
While I have no patience for the fanaticism of some and the ignorance of others.

You're off topic as usual and that's not a complete sentence either.

The point of the speech I linked to and why I linked to it is that Germany has done penance for long enough and it's time for Germans to reclaim their culture and move on. Soon enough if Germans are wise they will vote Merkel out of office and begin to reclaim their country from Muslims and others who only wish to destroy it from within.

This place looks very promising; don't be afraid.  :)

https://www.newenglandtreatmentcenter.com

Just so you know Germans do not do penance, & they have not lost there culture.

Please keep posting.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Contrarian on July 23, 2017, 05:31:24 PM
Don't tell Av, he thinks the Germans are evil and should be punished. Never mind the elites who wanted to deliberately punish Germany and never mind the treachery of the British and others throughout WWI but especially at the end of it which gave rise to what some call "endless wars" around the World.  :-X
While I have no patience for the fanaticism of some and the ignorance of others.

You're off topic as usual and that's not a complete sentence either.

The point of the speech I linked to and why I linked to it is that Germany has done penance for long enough and it's time for Germans to reclaim their culture and move on. Soon enough if Germans are wise they will vote Merkel out of office and begin to reclaim their country from Muslims and others who only wish to destroy it from within.

This place looks very promising; don't be afraid.  :)

https://www.newenglandtreatmentcenter.com

Just so you know Germans do not do penance, they have not lost there culture.

Please keep posting.

They've been doing penance for a long time. Some have not lost their culture; most actually have.

Please post allot, it's always entertaining.  :-*
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: andrewfi on July 24, 2017, 03:05:38 AM
Nicely done!
Well bowled Sir, well bowled!

The batsman looks disconsolately at his stumps in disarray, notes the bails scattered a good six feet behind his wicket, turns, and with heavy steps, walks slowly back to the club house where a hot cup of tea and a cucumber sandwich awaits him - small consolation for having been bowled out for a duck - again.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: AvHdB on July 24, 2017, 03:41:42 AM
Nicely done!
Well bowled Sir, well bowled!

The batsman looks disconsolately at his stumps in disarray, notes the bails scattered a good six feet behind his wicket, turns, and with heavy steps, walks slowly back to the club house where a hot cup of tea and a cucumber sandwich awaits him - small consolation for having been bowled out for a duck - again.

 :chuckle:
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Ste on July 24, 2017, 03:51:30 AM
Nicely done!
Well bowled Sir, well bowled!

The batsman looks disconsolately at his stumps in disarray, notes the bails scattered a good six feet behind his wicket, turns, and with heavy steps, walks slowly back to the club house where a hot cup of tea and a cucumber sandwich awaits him - small consolation for having been bowled out for a duck - again.

Cricket is one of the few games you actually do have a drinks break. And lunch.

Very civilised.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: andrewfi on July 24, 2017, 04:41:55 AM
Perhaps I should have made clear who the disconsolate batsman was though. It wasn't Confederate.

But, yes, clicky-ba, very civilised game. A great tool of control. Could only have been popularised by a self confident people with a clear view of their supremacy in the world order.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: AvHdB on July 24, 2017, 06:13:32 AM
Seems to describe some posters more than adequately.

"By all which, instead of being discouraged, they are fifty times more violently bent upon prosecuting their schemes, driven equally on by hope and despair; that as for himself, being not of an enterprising spirit, he was content to go on in the old forms, to live in the houses his ancestors had built, and act as they did in every part of life without innovation. That, some few other persons of quality and gentry had done the same, but were looked on with an eye of contempt and ill-will, as enemies to art, ignorant, and ill commonwealth's-men, preferring their own ease and sloth before the general improvement of their country."

Gulliver's Travels, by J. Swift. (Some consider him Irish others English) For myself his writings still are accurate.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Ste on July 24, 2017, 06:45:41 AM
Seems to describe some posters more than adequately.

"By all which, instead of being discouraged, they are fifty times more violently bent upon prosecuting their schemes, driven equally on by hope and despair; that as for himself, being not of an enterprising spirit, he was content to go on in the old forms, to live in the houses his ancestors had built, and act as they did in every part of life without innovation. That, some few other persons of quality and gentry had done the same, but were looked on with an eye of contempt and ill-will, as enemies to art, ignorant, and ill commonwealth's-men, preferring their own ease and sloth before the general improvement of their country."

Gulliver's Travels, by J. Swift. (Some consider him Irish others English) For myself his writings still are accurate.

Definitely not English, a Dubliner, but an Irish citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland as it was until 1922.

As were Wilde, Yeats, Shaw, Stoker and drummer from U2.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Contrarian on July 24, 2017, 10:04:36 AM
Did the Treaty of Versailles cause the rise of Hitler?

https://www.thoughtco.com/treaty-of-versailles-hitlers-rise-power-1221351

I would argue that yes, it did cause the rise of Hitler. Germany was broke and the people were starving after World War 1. Plus the Germans were hoping that Woodrow Wilson was going to be fair with them. Instead they got the Treaty of Versailles, whiched forced Germany to pay huge amounts of reparations, which left them even more broke and humiliated. Then when Hitler rose to power, he promised to make Germany a prosperous and proud nation again. Then he delivered on his promise, with food and an improved economy. This allowed Hitler to cement his power in Germany.

This is a very lengthy PDF and the other part of the equation which I alluded to. This is the main reason which Germans in the military felt they had been betrayed and stabbed in the back not only by the British but by their own politicians who gave them no other choice but to accept the Treaty of Versaille. I will also post a counter-point to this as I believe it's important for the reader to be able to make their own decisions.

RELATIVE HUMANITY IN ZIONIST THOUGHT AND
PRACTICE
To kill the children they fractured their heads with sticks. There was not
one house without corpses. The men and women of the villages were
pushed into houses without food or water. Then the saboteurs came to
dynamite the houses. One commander ordered a soldier to bring two
women into a house he was about to blow up. [. . .] Another soldier
prided himself upon having raped an Arab woman before shooting her
to death. Another Arab woman with her newborn baby was made to
clean the place for a couple of days, and then they shot her and the
baby. Educated and well-mannered commanders who were considered
"good guys" [. . .] became base murderers, and this not in the storm of
battle, but as a method of expulsion and extermination. The fewer the
Arabs who remain, the better. 4
This is part of a testimony of an Israeli soldier who witnessed a
massacre in a Palestinian village in 1948.


http://www.plands.org/en/articles-speeches/speeches/2005/balfours-odyssey-from-betrayal-to-expulsion-and-quest-for-return/pdfs/balfour_conference

Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Contrarian on July 24, 2017, 10:08:18 AM
This is from a Jewish source on the Treaty of Versaille.

http://www.jewishhistory.org/the-treaty-of-versailles/
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Contrarian on July 24, 2017, 10:12:40 AM
Haddington Declaration
"We, who gathered here today in the home town of Arthur James
Balfour and all those who accept this Declaration,
Cognizant of the inherent injustice of the infamous Balfour
Declaration of 2 November 1917 and its utter disregard for the
fundamental rights of the indigenous national Palestinian majority
in Palestine,
Aware of the consequential tragedies of loss of life and property,
destitution and dispersion of millions of people for over half a
century in Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan,
Distressed particularly at the execution of the largest, longest
ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from hundreds of towns and
villages in their homeland which resulted in the long exile of 6
million Palestinian refugees until today,
Mindful of the unforgivable failure of the British Mandate to fulfil
its obligations towards the protection, welfare and selfgovernment
of the Palestinians and the territorial integrity of
Palestine,
Hereby declare that,
The Balfour Declaration and its consequences are legally invalid
and morally wrong and must be reversed,
The suffering of the Palestinians till this day is an evil, the
continuation of which must be stopped and amends be made,
The restoration of Palestinian rights, particularly the Right of
Return and Self-Determination and respect for human rights and
international law must be implemented, this being the only basis
for permanent peace,
We further call upon,
The British Government to atone for Balfour sins by adopting and
implementing a clear and strong policy for the support of the
 vii
Palestinians’ Inalienable Rights and by making reparations for the
suffering and damages to the Palestinians,
The European Union and the US to accept responsibility
for the Palestinian catastrophe, support Palestinian rights, cease
and desist from aiding Israel in all aspects and impose penalties on
Israel as long as it continues in violation of international law
The international community, particularly Human Rights
NGO’s, to condemn Israel’s racist and Apartheid policies,
boycott dealing with it and fully support the Palestinians rights,
particularly the Right of Return,
All human beings of free conscience to help end the
century-long evil which befell the Palestinians, restore their rights
in Palestine and establish in Palestine a free democratic country
free from racism, Apartheid and discrimination on any grounds."

Haddington, East Lothian 12, 13 November 2005 In the 88th year after
Balfour Declaration

http://www.plands.org/en/articles-speeches/speeches/2005/balfours-odyssey-from-betrayal-to-expulsion-and-quest-for-return/pdfs/balfour_conference
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Wiz on July 25, 2017, 12:18:03 PM
And here are the results of the "Balfur Declaration",
a Zionist project still in progress!


(http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Palestinian-Land-Loss-1948-2014-640x459.jpg)

Well done to the previously old "Grand World British Empire", where out of a population of around 66 million people, a group of 269,568 Jewish people are controlling and running completely the country with Nathaniel, Charles, Jacob Rothschild at the helm of the Zionists.

Our current Government of Theresa May told us that Britain will celebrate the centenary of the Balfour Declaration this summer with “pride”.

Theresa May wants British people to feel 'pride' in the Balfour Declaration. What exactly is there to be proud of? (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/balfour-declaration-israel-palestine-theresa-may-government-centenary-arabs-jewish-settlements-a7607491.html)

Regarding  Hitler's German policy towards the Jews....I read the following interesting study but I am not a historian therefore I will not express any views, only will point out what is written there.

http://vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres5/harwoodeng.pdf  (http://vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres5/harwoodeng.pdf)

GERMAN POLICY TOWARDS THE JEWS PRIOR TO THE WAR

"Rightly or wrongly, the Germany of Adolf Hitler considered the Jews to be a disloyal and
avaricious element within the national community, as well as a force of decadence in Germany's
cultural life. This was held to be particularly unhealthy since, during the Weimar period, the
Jews had risen to a position of remarkable strength and influence in the nation, particularly in
law, finance and the mass media, even though they constituted only 5 per cent of the population."


"By 1939, the great majority of German Jews had emigrated, all of them with
a sizeable proportion of their assets."


GERMAN POLICY TOWARD THE JEWS AFTER THE OUTBREAK OF WAR

"With the coming of the war, the situation regarding the Jews altered drastically. It is not
widely known that world Jewry declared itself to be a belligerent party in the Second World
War, and there was therefore ample basis under international law for the Germans to intern the
Jewish population as a hostile force. On September 5, 1939 Chaim Weizmann, the principle
Zionist leader, had declared war against Germany on behalf of the world's Jews, stating that "the Jews stand by Great Britain and will fight on the side of the democracies... The Jewish Agency is ready to enter into immediate arrangements for utilizing Jewish manpower, technical ability, resources etc … "
(Jewish Chronicle, September 8, 1939).

Better read the whole study and then make up your own opinion.

 tiphat
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Wiz on July 25, 2017, 12:24:41 PM
Don't tell Av, he thinks the Germans are evil and should be punished. Never mind the elites who wanted to deliberately punish Germany and never mind the treachery of the British and others throughout WWI but especially at the end of it which gave rise to what some call "endless wars" around the World.  :-X

While I have no patience for the fanaticism of some and the ignorance of others.

I thought this might help. > <

"Alle Menschen werden Brüder"

While this was a good planned video of "Ode to Joy" .... I am sure you would agree this spontaneous flash mob had a better fun!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvEIMrqZCjc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvEIMrqZCjc)

or this one.....more near to our home.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U2bdXZzel0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U2bdXZzel0)

 :nod: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Contrarian on July 25, 2017, 01:16:51 PM
Interning the Jews after rounding them up and putting stars on them was a huge mistake and actually played into the Zionists hands. It's no secret that the wealthy ones left and the poor ones who couldn't get out suffered. One of hundreds of mistakes Hitler made during WWII.

Moving on, when looking at that map of Palestine, I wonder if Av will demand that the Israeli's put up a Holocaust memorial to their Palestinian victims, most of whom the Israeli's committed genocide against the first 20 years or so.

See this is the problem when only the victors get to write history and only they get to enforce punitive actions; now over 80 years from the end of WWII.

The reason history keeps repeating itself is easy to see if one isn't deliberately blind and uncaring.   :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Slumba on July 25, 2017, 05:35:36 PM
Two quick points:

1. Oded Yinon's plan written in the early 1980s (called the Yinon Plan) is what is really going on here - with much much greater scope than kicking around a few million Palestinians.

2. Balfour did not write the Balfour Declaration: it was written by Viscount Alfred Milner.  Milner made his reputation despite his incompetency at politics, being the reason the Second Boer War (which killed tens of thousands) was fought.  Milner made his fortune as chairman of Rio Tinto Zinc.  Rio Tinto was owned by ... the Rothschilds. 

So the Balfour Declaration addressed to Rothschild was written, basically, by one of his former employees.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Contrarian on July 25, 2017, 05:45:52 PM
Two quick points:

1. Oded Yinon's plan written in the early 1980s (called the Yinon Plan) is what is really going on here - with much much greater scope than kicking around a few million Palestinians.

2. Balfour did not write the Balfour Declaration: it was written by Viscount Alfred Milner.  Milner made his reputation despite his incompetency at politics, being the reason the Second Boer War (which killed tens of thousands) was fought.  Milner made his fortune as chairman of Rio Tinto Zinc.  Rio Tinto was owned by ... the Rothschilds. 

So the Balfour Declaration addressed to Rothschild was written, basically, by one of his former employees.

I've seen it before and all the propaganda coming out of DC and Hollywood is clearly pushing in that direction.

Read my review of Wonder Woman -- what a piece of crap!! The whole push about alleged gas attacks in Syria-- more than likely false flags. Just read some of the actual comments coming from Israeli military commanders, etc. -- they're involved in that whole mess.

Back to the thread title -- how long is Germany supposed to do penance for WWII, when certain scoundrels are doing their very best to start WWIII? This is what I want to know. Germans need to reject Merkel and reject outsiders as well who do their best to profit from the past.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: dcguyusa on July 29, 2017, 01:05:09 AM

See this is the problem when only the victors get to write history and only they get to enforce punitive actions; now over 80 years from the end of WWII.

The reason history keeps repeating itself is easy to see if one isn't deliberately blind and uncaring.   :coffeeread:

Might always makes right.  Consider the Native Americans who were shoved into reservations (treaty after treaty being disregarded) and the Opium War in the 1840s that came about all because UK liked to drink tea and Imperial China wanted nothing from the UK.   :GRRRR: :king: :fighting0004: :antagonize:
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: AvHdB on July 29, 2017, 01:31:14 AM

This takes place in Berlin.

The conductor is Dutch.

The 'musical' instrument of torture is popular in Scotland.

The tune has an interesting background, written by an Englishman, who had a remarkable journey in life. The tune and lyrics only became popular in the United States.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Wiz on July 29, 2017, 05:16:00 AM

This takes place in Berlin.

The conductor is Dutch.

The 'musical' instrument of torture is popular in Scotland.

The tune has an interesting background, written by an Englishman, who had a remarkable journey in life. The tune and lyrics only became popular in the United States.

So what the above video and comments in your post has to do with the title of this Threat?

Your are totally  :offtopic:

This is another effort on your trolling shift to derail this thread and avoid allowing or having to answer  comments that rationally criticise the actions of the Zionists, Government and the state of Israel!

It's that simple.

 (:)
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: AvHdB on July 29, 2017, 05:24:28 AM

This takes place in Berlin.

The conductor is Dutch.

The 'musical' instrument of torture is popular in Scotland.

The tune has an interesting background, written by an Englishman, who had a remarkable journey in life. The tune and lyrics only became popular in the United States.

So what the above video and comments in your post has to do with the title of this Threat?

Your are totally

This is another effort on your trolling shift to derail this thread and avoid allowing or having to answer  comments that rationally criticise the actions of the Zionists, Government and the state of Israel!

It's that simple.

 (:)

Let's see the concert takes place in Berlin, the last time I was there it was part of Germany. The concert goers (I assume mostly German) are enjoying themselves listening to a Dutchman conduct an ensemble that uses an musical instrument popular in Scotland. They play a song written by an Englishman that became popular in America. 

Deleted.  Leslied Stop the personal insults.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Contrarian on July 29, 2017, 08:17:47 AM

This takes place in Berlin.

The conductor is Dutch.

The 'musical' instrument of torture is popular in Scotland.

The tune has an interesting background, written by an Englishman, who had a remarkable journey in life. The tune and lyrics only became popular in the United States.

So what the above video and comments in your post has to do with the title of this Threat?

Your are totally

This is another effort on your trolling shift to derail this thread and avoid allowing or having to answer  comments that rationally criticise the actions of the Zionists, Government and the state of Israel!

It's that simple.

 (:)

Let's see the concert takes place in Berlin, the last time I was there it was part of Germany. The concert goers (I assume mostly German) are enjoying themselves listening to a Dutchman conduct an ensemble that uses an musical instrument popular in Scotland. They play a song written by an Englishman that became popular in America. 



Wiz, as you can see AvHdb has no argument, zero. So he resorts to making a personal attack. You are a "challenged hate filled sour puss or a grumpy old man".

And those of us who spoke truth to power are "simpleton's....posting a version of "stupidity and hate".

In other words he had no counter argument to the simple truths posted, so he waited, posted something insignificant and off topic, and rained down the insults.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: AvHdB on July 29, 2017, 08:30:13 AM
Wiz, as you can see AvHdb has no argument, zero. So he resorts to making a personal attack. You are a "challenged hate filled sour puss or a grumpy old man".

And those of us who spoke truth to power are "simpleton's....posting a version of "stupidity and hate".

In other words he had no counter argument to the simple truths posted, so he waited, posted something insignificant and off topic, and rained down the insults.

Confederate,

Let us try to read the title of the thread "Not so good to be a German" I did not bring Zionism, Israel or Jewish, into the thread

Cut out the personal insults or moderation action will follow.  Leslied.

Av
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Contrarian on July 29, 2017, 09:25:40 AM
Threads wander as they should. No discussion of Germany is ever complete without discussing their antagonist.

You seem more angry than normal little man. Were you bitten by a rabid dog? Better get that checked out soon!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Wiz on July 29, 2017, 07:32:22 PM
Confederate

When you see somebody attacking a poster personally then you know he cannot discuss any subject rationally and have nothing much to offer in a public discussion. One of their other cover  is to criticise typing or grammatical mistakes then they expose themselves for their inability to add objective comments to the discussion.

The word Hate, is not part of my vocabulary because I don't hate anybody, including AV and only people with inferiority complexes hate other people. Of course I don't tolerate anybody who tries to impose rules in my views or my democratic right to express them freely.

That's for the record from a grumpy old man.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Contrarian on July 29, 2017, 10:39:13 PM
Confederate

When you see somebody attacking a poster personally then you know he cannot discuss any subject rationally and have nothing much to offer in a public discussion. One of their other cover  is to criticise typing or grammatical mistakes then they expose themselves for their inability to add objective comments to the discussion.

The word Hate, is not part of my vocabulary because I don't hate anybody, including AV and only people with inferiority complexes hate other people. Of course I don't tolerate anybody who tries to impose rules in my views or my democratic right to express them freely.

That's for the record from a grumpy old man.

 tiphat  :laugh:

Sometimes I get upset with AvHdb yet normally he is a worthy debater. The comments I added might not have seemed to be on topic to Av however I believe they are when looking at the big picture. There are always two sides to a story and history does not happen in a vacuum. There is clearly cause and effect. There were many events prior to WWII and Germans have a right to have their actions looked at objectively.

Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Maxx on July 30, 2017, 08:27:44 AM

Let us try to read the title of the thread "Not so good to be a German" I did not bring Zionism, Israel or Jewish, into the thread


This thread has wandered all over the place and I don't mind. What was the back of my mind when I posted it was, "It is not so good to be American." People here in the Republic of Georgia think that because the average American family makes 50K plus dollars a year they are rich. When discussing this with them I have to remind them of the high cost of living and the huge credit card and mortgage debt most Americans and families carry. You can come from country that has a reputation of being rich, but doesn't mean you are, especially if you live there.
Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: Wiz on July 31, 2017, 01:28:32 AM
Let us try to read the title of the thread "Not so good to be a German" I did not bring Zionism, Israel or Jewish, into the thread
This thread has wandered all over the place and I don't mind. What was the back of my mind when I posted it was, "It is not so good to be American." People here in the Republic of Georgia think that because the average American family makes 50K plus dollars a year they are rich. When discussing this with them I have to remind them of the high cost of living and the huge credit card and mortgage debt most Americans and families carry. You can come from country that has a reputation of being rich, but doesn't mean you are, especially if you live there.
Maxx

We know each other, on these boards, for many years and you must remember that I always avoid to make personal attacks or rude remarks for any person.

What I do not tolerate, as mentioned previously, is to have somebody to stop me expressing my views for any subject I get interested.

If somebody does not like any post or feels offended, there is a button under the post: Report to Moderator and it is up to the Moderator to decide, if a post is  :offtopic:, rude, personal attacks or delete it.

It is not down to the poster, like AV, to instruct us what we can talk or not, which he frequently does and that is why I refer to him as Troll on shift....... Mention the words,  Zionism, Israel or Jewish and he starts personally attacking the poster and also been Personally rude. How many times we have seen the Moderator edit his posts and warn him?

When did he ever got involved in any real good debate?

All I have seen is that he always tries to derail our posts, with reference to Zionism, Israel or Jewish........ and most of the time it is hard to understand what he talking about and gets comments.....get off the bottle...etc.

That is for the record from a grumpy old man!



Title: Re: Not so good to be German
Post by: msmoby on August 02, 2017, 01:48:33 AM
Confederate

When you see somebody attacking a poster personally then you know he cannot discuss any subject rationally and have nothing much to offer in a public discussion. One of their other cover  is to criticise typing or grammatical mistakes then they expose themselves for their inability to add objective comments to the discussion.

The word Hate, is not part of my vocabulary because I don't hate anybody, including AV and only people with inferiority complexes hate other people. Of course I don't tolerate anybody who tries to impose rules in my views or my democratic right to express them freely.

That's for the record from a grumpy old man.

Quote of the week material - the irony will go over BOTH their heads ...