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Information & Chat => News & Political Discussion => Topic started by: leslied on June 17, 2016, 12:30:21 PM

Title: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: leslied on June 17, 2016, 12:30:21 PM
Lord Coe bows to political pressure and bans the Russian Track and Field team from the Rio Olympics.

https://www.rt.com/sport/347108-russian-athletes-olympics-ban/ (https://www.rt.com/sport/347108-russian-athletes-olympics-ban/)

This decision is entirely political.  If it were about doping then a list of Russian Athletes who have recently failed drugs tests would be banned from competition - not the whole national team!!

I reckon Putin should now withdraw Russia from the Rio Olympics entirely and make it clear that if the 2024 games are handed to Los Angeles then Russia will not attend.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AKA Luke on June 17, 2016, 01:47:47 PM
Lord Coe bows to political pressure and bans the Russian Track and Field team from the Rio Olympics.

https://www.rt.com/sport/347108-russian-athletes-olympics-ban/ (https://www.rt.com/sport/347108-russian-athletes-olympics-ban/)

This decision is entirely political.  If it were about doping then a list of Russian Athletes who have recently failed drugs tests would be banned from competition - not the whole national team!!

I reckon Putin should now withdraw Russia from the Rio Olympics entirely and make it clear that if the 2024 games are handed to Los Angeles then Russia will not attend.

How can you fail a drugs test if you hide from the testing team in a military city? 

Premier league footballers have to allocate a location they will be in for 1 hour every day for potential drug testing.

There must be an endemic of type 2 diabetes in Russia, what with all the young healthy athletes taking meldoniem as well as Sharapova to "prevent diabetes".  :laugh:

Athletics, cycling, bodybuilding all riddled with drugs the world over. But, State sponsored doping schemes take the piss (and swap it for someone else's).

Lord Coe has his arse handed to him on a plate last night by Panorama.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: Gipsy on June 17, 2016, 01:56:37 PM
Lord Coe bows to political pressure and bans the Russian Track and Field team from the Rio Olympics.

https://www.rt.com/sport/347108-russian-athletes-olympics-ban/ (https://www.rt.com/sport/347108-russian-athletes-olympics-ban/)

This decision is entirely political.  If it were about doping then a list of Russian Athletes who have recently failed drugs tests would be banned from competition - not the whole national team!!

I reckon Putin should now withdraw Russia from the Rio Olympics entirely and make it clear that if the 2024 games are handed to Los Angeles then Russia will not attend.

How can you fail a drugs test if you hide from the testing team in a military city? 

Premier league footballers have to allocate a location they will be in for 1 hour every day for potential drug testing.

There must be an endemic of type 2 diabetes in Russia, what with all the young healthy athletes taking meldoniem as well as Sharapova to "prevent diabetes".  :laugh:

Athletics, cycling, bodybuilding all riddled with drugs the world over. But, State sponsored doping schemes take the piss (and swap it for someone else's).

Lord Coe has his arse handed to him on a plate last night by Panorama.

He should be sacked immediately....
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AKA Luke on June 17, 2016, 02:01:50 PM
Lord Coe bows to political pressure and bans the Russian Track and Field team from the Rio Olympics.

https://www.rt.com/sport/347108-russian-athletes-olympics-ban/ (https://www.rt.com/sport/347108-russian-athletes-olympics-ban/)

This decision is entirely political.  If it were about doping then a list of Russian Athletes who have recently failed drugs tests would be banned from competition - not the whole national team!!

I reckon Putin should now withdraw Russia from the Rio Olympics entirely and make it clear that if the 2024 games are handed to Los Angeles then Russia will not attend.

How can you fail a drugs test if you hide from the testing team in a military city? 

Premier league footballers have to allocate a location they will be in for 1 hour every day for potential drug testing.

There must be an endemic of type 2 diabetes in Russia, what with all the young healthy athletes taking meldoniem as well as Sharapova to "prevent diabetes".  :laugh:

Athletics, cycling, bodybuilding all riddled with drugs the world over. But, State sponsored doping schemes take the piss (and swap it for someone else's).

Lord Coe has his arse handed to him on a plate last night by Panorama.

Anna Antseliovich (Russia anti doping agency) has already said in interview with Sky news that Russian track and Field has a major problem with doping.

She's acting interim director....after 4 other senior members of staff were pumped.

I hate Putin and Russia being labelled the boogey man and propaganda nonsense. But they should get Oscar Pistorious involved, he's got more of a leg to stand on.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: Gipsy on June 17, 2016, 02:06:50 PM
Lord Coe bows to political pressure and bans the Russian Track and Field team from the Rio Olympics.

https://www.rt.com/sport/347108-russian-athletes-olympics-ban/ (https://www.rt.com/sport/347108-russian-athletes-olympics-ban/)

This decision is entirely political.  If it were about doping then a list of Russian Athletes who have recently failed drugs tests would be banned from competition - not the whole national team!!

I reckon Putin should now withdraw Russia from the Rio Olympics entirely and make it clear that if the 2024 games are handed to Los Angeles then Russia will not attend.

How can you fail a drugs test if you hide from the testing team in a military city? 

Premier league footballers have to allocate a location they will be in for 1 hour every day for potential drug testing.

There must be an endemic of type 2 diabetes in Russia, what with all the young healthy athletes taking meldoniem as well as Sharapova to "prevent diabetes".  :laugh:

Athletics, cycling, bodybuilding all riddled with drugs the world over. But, State sponsored doping schemes take the piss (and swap it for someone else's).

Lord Coe has his arse handed to him on a plate last night by Panorama.

Anna Antseliovich (Russia anti doping agency) has already said in interview with Sky news that Russian track and Field has a major problem with doping.

She's acting interim director....after 4 other senior members of staff were pumped.

I hate Putin and Russia being labelled the boogey man and propaganda nonsense. But they should get Oscar Pistorious involved, he's got more of a leg to stand on.

oooooooo, that's below the belt knee.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: Tom Cat on June 17, 2016, 06:12:07 PM
It's a dirty shame these athletes devoted their lives to train for the opportunity to complete in the Olympics, and it's taken from them.
Track and field is basically an individual sport, so why not allow all that pass the test to be allowed to complete?
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: yankee on June 17, 2016, 06:17:13 PM
It's a dirty shame these athletes devoted their lives to train for the opportunity to complete in the Olympics, and it's taken from them.
Track and field is basically an individual sport, so why not allow all that pass the test to be allowed to complete?

Let me make a guess at that.  The west wants Russia to look bad?
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AvHdB on June 17, 2016, 11:32:26 PM
Lord Coe bows to political pressure and bans the Russian Track and Field team from the Rio Olympics.

https://www.rt.com/sport/347108-russian-athletes-olympics-ban/ (https://www.rt.com/sport/347108-russian-athletes-olympics-ban/)

This decision is entirely political.  If it were about doping then a list of Russian Athletes who have recently failed drugs tests would be banned from competition - not the whole national team!!

I reckon Putin should now withdraw Russia from the Rio Olympics entirely and make it clear that if the 2024 games are handed to Los Angeles then Russia will not attend.

leslie you do not understand what you are writing about.

This is not politics but sports. Way to many Russian athletes have in detail described the doping program of the Russian sports federation. Please note the entire comittee headed by Lord Coe voted 100% for a ban. This despite rather intense lobbying by Russia for a different decision. This is simply about a fair and equal sports playing field.

What you hint at and is mentioned upthread and is a valid point that I can understand/sympathise with is the point of view there are individual Russian competitors who have said NO to drugs and they are also being banned. But please spare us saying poor Russia is being painted in a bad way. It is now common knowledge that Russia has used and promoted PED's to/for its competitors, on a Federation level. There simply can be no discussion about this. They have tried to hide this from the public and since it has come to light, tried to cheat and manipulate there way into avoiding this scenario of being banned. There attempts to clean up THERE own mess were attempts at duplicity and outright deception.

It came back to bite them and Puttyweaselin did not work.

As for Putin (Russia) withdrawing from the next Olympics I seem to recall many (including Russia) complaining about the Western boycott of the Moscow Olympics after the invasion of Afghanistan. Putin would be an idiot to attempt this. What we are really seeing is an independent body holding Russia accountable for its actions. And what will happen; there will be an appeal by Russia to the IOC and than the ass wipes in Geneva will bow to the pressure from Russia. Though every competitor and the general public will know that a Russian medal given in Rio is tainted.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: bagalia on June 18, 2016, 02:27:46 AM
Finally the voice of sanity.

Big time cheating deserves big time penalty. Put on your big boy pants. As famous murderer Baretta used to say, don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: leslied on June 18, 2016, 03:13:06 AM
Av,

Are you saying that Russia was the ONLY country used Performance enhancing drugs (PED's)? 

What about Belarus, Ukraine, Kenya, Ethiopia??

Granted during the FSU period the CCCP systematically used PED's to enhance their medal tally.  This carried on into the 21st century but Russia was not the only country doing this.

Banning a national team is a political act.  PERIOD. The IAAF is just a western controlled quango.  It is almost as bad as FIFA!

Banning athletes who have tested positive for PED's is just and proper.  Banning all athletes of a given nationality is not.


Though every competitor and the general public will know that a Russian medal given in Rio is tainted.


COMPLETE BULL SHITE

Any woman who wins a pole vault medal will know that it is undeserved because Yelena Isinbaeva was not allowed to compete, despite the fact she has never tested positive for PED's

Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: Bruce Lee on June 18, 2016, 03:27:08 AM

Though every competitor and the general public will know that a Russian medal given in Rio is tainted.


COMPLETE BULL SHITE
Of course its bullshit and just what we need, more anti-Russian bias that wouldn’t look out of place over at the other place – only thing missing is the celebrating smileys from AV’s post!!

Finally the voice of sanity.

Big time cheating deserves big time penalty. Put on your big boy pants.
Of course it’s not a bonus that it was them damn Russkis :Zzzzsleep:
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: Danchik on June 18, 2016, 05:11:00 AM

Though every competitor and the general public will know that a Russian medal given in Rio is tainted.


COMPLETE BULL SHITE
Of course its bullshit and just what we need, more anti-Russian bias that wouldn’t look out of place over at the other place – only thing missing is the celebrating smileys from AV’s post!!

Finally the voice of sanity.

Big time cheating deserves big time penalty. Put on your big boy pants.
Of course it’s not a bonus that it was them damn Russkis :Zzzzsleep:
It is quite obvious that Av has become nothing more than another Ukraine apologist. It's quite evident as his posts have become more and more anti-Russian over time.

To the point, if an athlete tests positive for banned drugs then that athlete should be banned, not the entire team, period. If an athlete refuses to test when called upon they too should be banned from competition. As someone who has competed in organized sports I know that a team always has alternates to fill any void left by anyone who can't, for whatever reason, fulfill their obligations.

Either a team uses an alternate who tests negative or leaves the place on the team void, but banning an entire team from competition because some members tested positive is unheard of ever in the history of the Olympics.

In the past whenever someone asked me about PED's in the Olympics, the first countries that came to mind were Germany and China.

To say this is not political is beyond naive. To think that Russia is the only country involved in juicing their athletes takes the naïveté to a whole other level. 

Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: yankee on June 18, 2016, 05:46:23 AM

Though every competitor and the general public will know that a Russian medal given in Rio is tainted.


COMPLETE BULL SHITE
Of course its bullshit and just what we need, more anti-Russian bias that wouldn’t look out of place over at the other place – only thing missing is the celebrating smileys from AV’s post!!

Finally the voice of sanity.

Big time cheating deserves big time penalty. Put on your big boy pants.
Of course it’s not a bonus that it was them damn Russkis :Zzzzsleep:
It is quite obvious that Av has become nothing more than another Ukraine apologist. It's quite evident as his posts have become more and more anti-Russian over time.

To the point, if an athlete tests positive for banned drugs then that athlete should be banned, not the entire team, period. If an athlete refuses to test when called upon they too should be banned from competition. As someone who has competed in organized sports I know that a team always has alternates to fill any void left by anyone who can't, for whatever reason, fulfill their obligations.

Either a team uses an alternate who tests negative or leaves the place on the team void, but banning an entire team from competition because some members tested positive is unheard of ever in the history of the Olympics.

In the past whenever someone asked me about PED's in the Olympics, the first countries that came to mind were Germany and China.

To say this is not political is beyond naive. To think that Russia is the only country involved in juicing their athletes takes the naïveté to a whole other level.

+ 1
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AvHdB on June 18, 2016, 06:25:49 AM
Av,

Are you saying that Russia was the ONLY country used Performance enhancing drugs (PED's)? 


No


What about Belarus, Ukraine, Kenya, Ethiopia??

Granted during the FSU period the CCCP systematically used PED's to enhance their medal tally.  This carried on into the 21st century but Russia was not the only country doing this.

Banning a national team is a political act.  PERIOD. The IAAF is just a western controlled quango.  It is almost as bad as FIFA!


Yes and no. The practices of the USSR with regards sporting achievements are ongoing and it seems to have never stopped. Regarding the other countries there attempts have been on some cases been amateur hour. About other countries we are discussing Russia, lets stay on one topic or if some are happy to start new topics feel free to do so.

There is another thread regarding this and it has some more background and responses that are enlightening.


Banning athletes who have tested positive for PED's is just and proper.  Banning all athletes of a given nationality is not.


Though every competitor and the general public will know that a Russian medal given in Rio is tainted.


COMPLETE BULL SHITE

Leslie, I relieves me a bit that you can agree about banning those who are using PED's but you fail to understand or acknowledge the Russian federation made a choice to give these drugs to there athletes and than attempted to hide or dismiss the evidence. THIS IS WHY THEY ARE BANNED. Sorry this is so black and white that it sounds like a some posting in a dark room are complaining about the fact the fact they are bumping into objects.

Any woman who wins a pole vault medal will know that it is undeserved because Yelena Isinbaeva was not allowed to compete, despite the fact she has never tested positive for PED's

Regarding clean athletes I have already said my thoughts upthread.

Sorry though the reality makes you guys uncomfortable. The simple facts if some one cares to study them are black and white. A little bit like when the Queen asked who was second and her Admiral replied there is no second. The only difference is those NOT asking questions or looking at facts are a bunch of drama queens.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AvHdB on June 18, 2016, 06:27:57 AM
It is quite obvious that Av has become nothing more than another Ukraine apologist. It's quite evident as his posts have become more and more anti-Russian over time.

Odd, though it is for me water off a ducks back, where do I mention Ukraine? We are discussing PED's and there abuse.

Free Hint: We are not discussing politics or who has bigger weaponilly but sports. Is it so challenging to stay on subject?
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: yankee on June 18, 2016, 06:50:09 AM
Av,

Are you saying that Russia was the ONLY country used Performance enhancing drugs (PED's)? 


No


What about Belarus, Ukraine, Kenya, Ethiopia??

Granted during the FSU period the CCCP systematically used PED's to enhance their medal tally.  This carried on into the 21st century but Russia was not the only country doing this.

Banning a national team is a political act.  PERIOD. The IAAF is just a western controlled quango.  It is almost as bad as FIFA!


Yes and no. The practices of the USSR with regards sporting achievements are ongoing and it seems to have never stopped. Regarding the other countries there attempts have been on some cases been amateur hour. About other countries we are discussing Russia, lets stay on one topic or if some are happy to start new topics feel free to do so.

There is another thread regarding this and it has some more background and responses that are enlightening.


Banning athletes who have tested positive for PED's is just and proper.  Banning all athletes of a given nationality is not.


Though every competitor and the general public will know that a Russian medal given in Rio is tainted.


COMPLETE BULL SHITE

Leslie, I relieves me a bit that you can agree about banning those who are using PED's but you fail to understand or acknowledge the Russian federation made a choice to give these drugs to there athletes and than attempted to hide or dismiss the evidence. THIS IS WHY THEY ARE BANNED. Sorry this is so black and white that it sounds like a some posting in a dark room are complaining about the fact the fact they are bumping into objects.

Any woman who wins a pole vault medal will know that it is undeserved because Yelena Isinbaeva was not allowed to compete, despite the fact she has never tested positive for PED's

Regarding clean athletes I have already said my thoughts upthread.

Sorry though the reality makes you guys uncomfortable. The simple facts if some one cares to study them are black and white. A little bit like when the Queen asked who was second and her Admiral replied there is no second. The only difference is those NOT asking questions or looking at facts are a bunch of drama queens.

I think Russia is lucky considering that Rio is the center of an ongoing epidemic.  The US should pull their team for health safety.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AvHdB on June 18, 2016, 07:05:08 AM
I think Russia is lucky considering that Rio is the center of an ongoing epidemic.  The US should pull their team for health safety.

 :laugh:

There are two sides to this, the post competition parties are often little more than orgies.

But if any other countries were not present in RIO there would be many PED testers, doing obscene things with there thumbs.

As an aside there are still concerns about the regatta waters with one team supposedly running over a butchered animal two weeks ago.  :sick0012:
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: Donhollio on June 18, 2016, 11:42:53 PM
Quote from: Bruce Lee
only thing missing is the celebrating smileys from AV’s post!!


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: pando on June 20, 2016, 06:18:57 AM

Though every competitor and the general public will know that a Russian medal given in Rio is tainted.


COMPLETE BULL SHITE
Of course its bullshit and just what we need, more anti-Russian bias that wouldn’t look out of place over at the other place – only thing missing is the celebrating smileys from AV’s post!!

Finally the voice of sanity.

Big time cheating deserves big time penalty. Put on your big boy pants.
Of course it’s not a bonus that it was them damn Russkis :Zzzzsleep:
It is quite obvious that Av has become nothing more than another Ukraine apologist. It's quite evident as his posts have become more and more anti-Russian over time.

To the point, if an athlete tests positive for banned drugs then that athlete should be banned, not the entire team, period. If an athlete refuses to test when called upon they too should be banned from competition. As someone who has competed in organized sports I know that a team always has alternates to fill any void left by anyone who can't, for whatever reason, fulfill their obligations.

Either a team uses an alternate who tests negative or leaves the place on the team void, but banning an entire team from competition because some members tested positive is unheard of ever in the history of the Olympics.

In the past whenever someone asked me about PED's in the Olympics, the first countries that came to mind were Germany and China.

To say this is not political is beyond naive. To think that Russia is the only country involved in juicing their athletes takes the naïveté to a whole other level.

Danchik, you are completely wrong and your post indicates that you have not made yourself familiar with the background, which is useful when discussing. If it was (only) individual athletes who tested positive, then it would be a different story. In this case however, the Russian sports administration blocked access to sport villages/centers for the WADA-test personnel, intimidated the test personnel, systematically manipulated samples and tests to make the outcomes favourable etc etc. The list is long, and actions from the Russian sport administration are well documented. Therefore, the punishment is not individual, but a collective one. It is 100% appropriate, but I agree with AvHdB that the ban most likely will be lifted by IOC sooner or later. It would be very unfortunate, but I think it will. Clearly, Russia is not the only sinner, and also athletes from other countries take drugs, but the scale of involvement from the official Russian sports administration is unprecedented (well, at least after the death of DDR) and very well documented. That is why action is taken against Russia, but not (for the moment) against other countries.

Of course, for some, this is another example of "everybody is against Russia and the West is only after sabotaging Russia etc".  It is impossible to discuss with such people, as they will spin everything in this direction, much like Putin and his crew.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: Steveboy on June 20, 2016, 06:31:11 AM
I never understand why so many people take these steroids or what ever! Especially the guys. I mean you can have a body like Tarzan .. the problem is it gives you a small Penis!

So you have to out way the advantages with the disadvantages?  personally I would rather have a big penis than big muscles  :laugh:
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: andrewfi on June 20, 2016, 06:48:03 AM
I never understand why so many people take these steroids or what ever! Especially the guys. I mean you can have a body like Tarzan .. the problem is it gives you a small Penis!

So you have to out way the advantages with the disadvantages?  personally I would rather have a big penis than big muscles  :laugh:

For some people, for some things, a big penis is not the most important thing in the world!
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: Steveboy on June 20, 2016, 06:50:08 AM
I never understand why so many people take these steroids or what ever! Especially the guys. I mean you can have a body like Tarzan .. the problem is it gives you a small Penis!

So you have to out way the advantages with the disadvantages?  personally I would rather have a big penis than big muscles  :laugh:

For some people, for some things, a big penis is not the most important thing in the world!


I know  :) But it seriously does shrink it using all that stuff.. And I wouldn't fancy carrying tweezers about with me all day  :laugh:
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: andrewfi on June 20, 2016, 07:07:26 AM
Bear in mind that such effects are not universal, but there are other effects as well. I have no way to know for sure but I'd bet that most folks who use steroids suffer from some adverse effect or other.

Look at it this way, I accept that in my life, doing the work I do, there are constraints; there's always a price to pay for doing that which we enjoy or are good at. I pay the price because I enjoy the work I do and I like being good at it.

If I were an MMA fighter, for example, I might well consider that the price I pay in health terms for the use of the drugs I take was well worth the benefit I receive from having done so. I know fighters who have used such drugs and who certainly consider that the benefits outweigh the costs.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: cufflinks on June 20, 2016, 08:39:14 AM
Rio like any large City in the Americas presents significant risks much greater than say NYC, Atlanta or Los Angeles:

Street Crime, roving bands of children pickpockets swarm people and rob anything they may have on them and 2 man teams on Motorcycles are daily Carjacking and robbing Taxi customers in slow highway traffic - similar and drugs crime is rampant... often with the cooperation of the Taxi Cab drivers.  Riders are warned to keep smarth phones, Notebook PCs and fancy watches or jewelry out of site - a diamond ring can feed a family for a year - and only use licensed cabs - or possibly Uber etc as the drivers must pass a license and background checks.

Drugs gangs are as bad in Rio as they are in Mexico...  fact of life in Latin America and the USA.

Zika is a pernicious form of mosquitoe born contagion as most mosquitoes are active in moist shady or dark air typically after the sun sets like micro vampires - the Zika variant is active in the mid day sun sort of like a supersquitoe.

Pollution in the rivers and ocean shore venues is often uncontrolled...

HIV is prevelent for those with more than sports in mind.

So what is the interepid first Southern Americas Olympics fan to do?

Islamist Extremists are able to easily hide among the crowds in the chaos of South American Cities

http://at-riskinternational.com/rio2016/

PLANNING TO ATTEND RIO 2016?

The Olympic Games operate by their own, unique set of rules—an independent country within the host country. The 2016 Games will be the first Olympics in South America, a part of the world with its own security challenges. An experienced security partner can help you understand what to expect and how to prepare, allowing you and your guests to enjoy the international celebration safely, with peace of mind.
Before heading to the 2016 Olympics in Rio de Janeiro, understand three critical factors:

The Olympic Games are a unique entity—one that follows its own set of rules. Even if you know Rio de Janeiro, you won’t know Rio 2016.

These Olympics, the first in South America, will present security challenges very different from other Olympic host cities. Brazil in particular is known for protests, street crimes and its favelas.

Perceived wealth of American <and European> tourists makes them favorite targets for criminal activity.
Any criminal or group looking for an easy mark or looking to make a statement will flock to Brazil.
AT-RISK International can protect you, your guests or your clients at the Olympics, at Brazilian tourist sites and anywhere in Latin America.

and;

Truly Third World Olympics - Stadiums built between slums... The Maracanã stadium is seen between the Turano (left) and Mangueira shantytowns in Rio de Janeiro. The police presence for the Summer Games will be as elevated in tourist areas of Rio as they were for the 2014 World Cup, but that means less security for the city’s poorer communities during the events.

Notorious incidents that get amplified in the media can create a gap between real and perceived risk. The high-profile killing of a 17-year-old girl in Rio on Saturday led Brazilian soccer star Rivaldo to post an ominous message on his 407,000-follower Instagram account warning foreigners not to come to the Olympics.

"Things are getting uglier here every day," Rivaldo wrote. "I advise everyone with plans to visit Brazil for the Olympics in Rio — to stay home."

Much as Brazil dealt successfully with protecting visitors during the 2014 FIFA World Cup, the government will redeploy police and military from throughout Rio state to guard the tourists. Muggah estimates that more than 80,000 security personnel, including at least 30,000 members of the army and reserves, will be deployed to guard the tourists, media and athletes, making parts of Rio, population 6.3 million, one of the most protected parts of the vast country during the 17-day event that starts Aug. 5.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-official-wary-of-athletes-staying-outside-olympic-village-2016-4
Olympic officials are worried about athletes' safety outside the Olympic Village in Rio

The U.S. men's and women's basketball teams will be staying on a cruise ship in Rio's renovated port area, where increased security is already expected.

3 Days ago:  Things getting worse NOT better:
Rio 2016: Brazil detects Islamic State radical posts in Portuguese
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-18/rio-olympics-brazil-detects-is-radical-posts-in-portuguese/7522512

Security concerns add to recession, political woes

Brazilian authorities are on high alert ahead of the Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro from August 5 to 21.

They say more than 80,000 security personnel will police the Games — twice the number deployed at the last Olympics in London in 2012.

The Islamic State group has claimed responsibility for deadly attacks on civilians in various countries.

Authorities suspect many of its followers are radicalised and recruited online.

"The opening of this new front in the spreading of information for extremist indoctrination, aimed at the Portuguese-speaking public, increases the complexity of the job of tackling terrorism," the intelligence agency said in its statement.

"It represents an additional means of radicalizing Brazilian citizens."

Brazil is already reeling from recession and a political crisis.

President Dilma Rousseff has been suspended to face an impeachment trial.

The Senate is set to vote on whether to impeach her in mid-August, during the Games.

I will be watching on Satellite TV cable channels thank you very much.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: Steveboy on June 20, 2016, 10:25:48 AM
I never understand why so many people take these steroids or what ever! Especially the guys. I mean you can have a body like Tarzan .. the problem is it gives you a small Penis!

So you have to out way the advantages with the disadvantages?  personally I would rather have a big penis than big muscles  :laugh:

For some people, for some things, a big penis is not the most important thing in the world!

Thats a very smart new avatar.. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AKA Luke on June 20, 2016, 10:34:30 AM
Have any other under 18s sporting teams had to pull out of competition recently for taking a banned substance to enhance performance anti diabetes drugs like meldoniem?

A decent Endo might help Russia out. Seems crazy these healthy young people are already pre diabetic/type 2 and being medicated. I thought it was the USandA that was fcuked!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/russias-entire-under-18-hockey-team-replaced-after-failed-drug-tests/article29548447/?service=mobile (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/russias-entire-under-18-hockey-team-replaced-after-failed-drug-tests/article29548447/?service=mobile)

Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: andrewfi on June 20, 2016, 01:58:43 PM

Thats a very smart new avatar.. :thumbsup:

 tiphat
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: Danchik on June 21, 2016, 04:09:17 AM

Though every competitor and the general public will know that a Russian medal given in Rio is tainted.


COMPLETE BULL SHITE
Of course its bullshit and just what we need, more anti-Russian bias that wouldn’t look out of place over at the other place – only thing missing is the celebrating smileys from AV’s post!!

Finally the voice of sanity.

Big time cheating deserves big time penalty. Put on your big boy pants.
Of course it’s not a bonus that it was them damn Russkis :Zzzzsleep:
It is quite obvious that Av has become nothing more than another Ukraine apologist. It's quite evident as his posts have become more and more anti-Russian over time.

To the point, if an athlete tests positive for banned drugs then that athlete should be banned, not the entire team, period. If an athlete refuses to test when called upon they too should be banned from competition. As someone who has competed in organized sports I know that a team always has alternates to fill any void left by anyone who can't, for whatever reason, fulfill their obligations.

Either a team uses an alternate who tests negative or leaves the place on the team void, but banning an entire team from competition because some members tested positive is unheard of ever in the history of the Olympics.

In the past whenever someone asked me about PED's in the Olympics, the first countries that came to mind were Germany and China.

To say this is not political is beyond naive. To think that Russia is the only country involved in juicing their athletes takes the naïveté to a whole other level.

Danchik, you are completely wrong and your post indicates that you have not made yourself familiar with the background, which is useful when discussing. If it was (only) individual athletes who tested positive, then it would be a different story. In this case however, the Russian sports administration blocked access to sport villages/centers for the WADA-test personnel, intimidated the test personnel, systematically manipulated samples and tests to make the outcomes favourable etc etc. The list is long, and actions from the Russian sport administration are well documented. Therefore, the punishment is not individual, but a collective one. It is 100% appropriate, but I agree with AvHdB that the ban most likely will be lifted by IOC sooner or later. It would be very unfortunate, but I think it will. Clearly, Russia is not the only sinner, and also athletes from other countries take drugs, but the scale of involvement from the official Russian sports administration is unprecedented (well, at least after the death of DDR) and very well documented. That is why action is taken against Russia, but not (for the moment) against other countries.

Of course, for some, this is another example of "everybody is against Russia and the West is only after sabotaging Russia etc".  It is impossible to discuss with such people, as they will spin everything in this direction, much like Putin and his crew.
NO, in your opinion I'm completely wrong.

First of all, the governing bodies overseeing these affairs should have taken action much sooner. That they waited until a month before the games is a classic case of the "tail wagging the dog". The IOC, WADA, and the IAAF knew about this years ago. That they knew and did nothing tells me they are just as complicit (i.e. turning a blind eye, taking bribes, not taking strong corrective action at the onset,  etc.) as the people suspected of taking and administering the banned substances. And this is the biggest problem I have with this whole affair; its timing.

Secondly, most the these drugs were created by Western scientists, so that in of itself should tell you how widespread this activity is. Doping has been going on forever and there have been scandals such as this in the past (e.g. The US team after the Salt Lake City Olympics just to name one) where little was made of it, and nothing happened to the athletes involved.

Lastly, IMO, you punish those involved; I am not my brother's keeper. That you disagree with this is just an opinion of yours that holds no more weight than my opinion except in your brainwashed mind. Procedures and protocol could have been established well before things got out of hand, and this issue would have corrected itself much sooner. I'm sure it will correct itself going forward to the degree that any athlete be held accountable. This is not a Russian specific event.

This situation has many layers, many you have failed to address, which is not unusual given anything to do with Russia. Some Russian athletes and trainers are absolutely guilty as charged. Let them deal with the consequences and not others who have trained their entire lives for this. This is a matter of opinion, mine, regardless of what your prejudices hold.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: andrewfi on June 21, 2016, 05:15:53 AM
Here's an interesting article that casts events with the doping shite in a new light. CLICK HERE! (http://pavel-shipilin.livejournal.com/583516.html)

The writer looks at the overall ban in the context of numeric and objective comparisons to the rest of the world. When looking at his evidence it is clear that China and Russia have had a disproportionately large number of drug tests. It would seem, objectively, that these two countries have been targeted as a matter of policy.

What is clearly visible though is that the rate at which Russian athletes, in particular, fail these challenges is very far from being the worst.

There is no doubt that Russia has a problem with PEDs. However that can clearly be seen to be the case for many other countries, including the US and UK. One is forced to wonder how well those two countries would have stood up to a campaign of drug testing as severe as that which has been imposed upon Russia - roughly twice as many tests upon Russian athletes as compared to USAians, for example, where we already know that US sports have a huge problem with PEDs.

As a general principal, in my opinion, the action of banning a whole nation from competition is unjust. It is particularly so when that action is not carried out consistently. I have no doubt that this is a political act and that there will be consequences that will end up weakening international sports.

When reading the article above (probably in translation) ask yourself why it might be that Russia and China would be having drug testing performed at a rate double of that among other large nations and why it might be that nations with much worse records were not then investigated at a similar level to Russia or China. The reasons for the ban do not need much questioning when the numbers are considered.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AKA Luke on June 21, 2016, 10:35:00 AM

Though every competitor and the general public will know that a Russian medal given in Rio is tainted.


COMPLETE BULL SHITE
Of course its bullshit and just what we need, more anti-Russian bias that wouldn’t look out of place over at the other place – only thing missing is the celebrating smileys from AV’s post!!

Finally the voice of sanity.

Big time cheating deserves big time penalty. Put on your big boy pants.
Of course it’s not a bonus that it was them damn Russkis :Zzzzsleep:
It is quite obvious that Av has become nothing more than another Ukraine apologist. It's quite evident as his posts have become more and more anti-Russian over time.

To the point, if an athlete tests positive for banned drugs then that athlete should be banned, not the entire team, period. If an athlete refuses to test when called upon they too should be banned from competition. As someone who has competed in organized sports I know that a team always has alternates to fill any void left by anyone who can't, for whatever reason, fulfill their obligations.

Either a team uses an alternate who tests negative or leaves the place on the team void, but banning an entire team from competition because some members tested positive is unheard of ever in the history of the Olympics.

In the past whenever someone asked me about PED's in the Olympics, the first countries that came to mind were Germany and China.

To say this is not political is beyond naive. To think that Russia is the only country involved in juicing their athletes takes the naïveté to a whole other level.

Danchik, you are completely wrong and your post indicates that you have not made yourself familiar with the background, which is useful when discussing. If it was (only) individual athletes who tested positive, then it would be a different story. In this case however, the Russian sports administration blocked access to sport villages/centers for the WADA-test personnel, intimidated the test personnel, systematically manipulated samples and tests to make the outcomes favourable etc etc. The list is long, and actions from the Russian sport administration are well documented. Therefore, the punishment is not individual, but a collective one. It is 100% appropriate, but I agree with AvHdB that the ban most likely will be lifted by IOC sooner or later. It would be very unfortunate, but I think it will. Clearly, Russia is not the only sinner, and also athletes from other countries take drugs, but the scale of involvement from the official Russian sports administration is unprecedented (well, at least after the death of DDR) and very well documented. That is why action is taken against Russia, but not (for the moment) against other countries.

Of course, for some, this is another example of "everybody is against Russia and the West is only after sabotaging Russia etc".  It is impossible to discuss with such people, as they will spin everything in this direction, much like Putin and his crew.
NO, in your opinion I'm completely wrong.

Secondly, most the these drugs were created by Western scientists

Latvia is in the west?

Teams of 18 year olds failing drugs tests....1 wonders how such wide scale testing of Russia has come about.

Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: Tom Cat on June 21, 2016, 07:12:17 PM


Doping Scandal Yet Another Example of Anti-Russian Double Standards

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/outrage-doping-scandal-yet-another-example-anti-russian-double-standard/ri15087
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: bagalia on June 21, 2016, 10:13:38 PM


Doping Scandal Yet Another Example of Anti-Russian Double Standards

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/outrage-doping-scandal-yet-another-example-anti-russian-double-standard/ri15087

RI seems to wish to create a scandal in regards to Russia getting tested more than other countries. They should instead be asking the specific laboratories that question.

WADA requires independent labs to do a minimum of 3000 tests per year or receive more scrutiny. Countries with larger teams and more entries should also have more testing but in the end it mostly depends on how developed the program is in the country.

So look to your own country for answers on that question.

IMO Russia has more testing because it looks good for Russia. More testing also means more money for some company and more bribery money within countries susceptible to bribery.

The independent council has acknowledged that good people end up with the short stick in their advising a blanket ban however after all the evidence was reviewed they concluded that this was just too massive for state not to know about it. The independent council also acknowledge that doping is a problem all over and they only had a narrow investigative mandate here.

On the good side, the Russian teams will not be banned as long as they can prove they have fixed the problems and get dope free. The criminal aspects to the case is another matter that may take more time.

WADA has a website with a huge question and answer section plus a news section with a 90 minute video of question and answer from international reporters to the independent council related to this particular subject.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: andrewfi on June 22, 2016, 01:42:38 AM
Bagalia, if you look at the numbers you will see that you have been getting confused again. (yeah, it is easily done, numbers are hard!)

The point being made in the link I shared above is that not only are Russia and China being tested in a degree much greater than other countries, but that their 'failure rate' is actually low in comparison to other countries. That is, the testing is not justified by the results of the tests. The chances are that under higher scrutiny other countries' athletes would be expected to fail to a greater degree than they do now.

The examination of athletes from Russia and China is disproportionate to the 'size' of teams and to the level of abuse of PEDs. That is a choice made by those who decide where expensive testing resources are allocated and, because the choices do not reflect the objective situation in respect of PED abuse, demonstrates either incompetent management or a political motivation.

=================

In a seeming return to rationality it seems that the IOC is taking a more nuanced view of the situation. CLICK HERE (http://theduran.com/ioc-says-russia-will-compete-rio-olympics-opens-door-track-field-athletes-well/)! to learn more.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AvHdB on June 22, 2016, 03:04:22 AM
The use of PED's is a problem if you believe in a fair playing field, the abuse of these drugs is an epidemic and no more so than in Russia it seems. But what it sounds like many are saying Russia can continue to cheat.

The situation regarding Russian and PED's is so black and white and that it is little like looking at a plate of food that has fallen to the ground in a barn. Yes you can wipe it up and reserve it, yummy, . . . but. Does any one have common sense? Andrew's new post is little more of the same refuse. Curious though Danchik are you participating on that thread that Andrew posted to, a simple yes or no as an answer is enough.

For the good order this discussion regarding using and abusing PED's has been going on between the Russia sporting federation and both the WADA and Track and Field Federation for over a year. As I recall almost two years now. The Russian's have done nothing to cooperate or come clean. Sure some (Andrew) would spin it in a different light but instead of looking at simple facts and realities, they want to BS or perhaps they are Kremlin trolls.

Much to my surprise the IOC did not reverse the ban and it now is set in stone. As Leslie hinted at individual athletes who have in the past tested clean may compete is Rio so that allows those who have worked for the goal of a gold medal to pursue that dream.

Further Andrew hints that many of the drugs were invented in the US and tries, shift, who is responsible, this is also more Andrew nonsense. While the drugs may indeed may come from the US, there present use in Russia was not what they were formulated for. In fact the same holds true for Viagra which was formulated with an entirely different goal in mind.

My greater curiosity is Andrew why do you this? My read it only further erodes what marginal posting honesty that you have.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: bagalia on June 22, 2016, 03:41:14 AM
Bagalia, if you look at the numbers you will see that you have been getting confused again. (yeah, it is easily done, numbers are hard!)

The point being made in the link I shared above is that not only are Russia and China being tested in a degree much greater than other countries, but that their 'failure rate' is actually low in comparison to other countries. That is, the testing is not justified by the results of the tests. The chances are that under higher scrutiny other countries' athletes would be expected to fail to a greater degree than they do now.

The examination of athletes from Russia and China is disproportionate to the 'size' of teams and to the level of abuse of PEDs. That is a choice made by those who decide where expensive testing resources are allocated and, because the choices do not reflect the objective situation in respect of PED abuse, demonstrates either incompetent management or a political motivation.

=================

In a seeming return to rationality it seems that the IOC is taking a more nuanced view of the situation. CLICK HERE (http://theduran.com/ioc-says-russia-will-compete-rio-olympics-opens-door-track-field-athletes-well/)! to learn more.

No Andrew, I pretty much agree with some of what you wrote. The only problem is that you think there is some higher authority causing more testing in certain countries.

Here, these are just two quotes among many that could be used from the WADA website. If you have a question why there are more tests taken in Russia or China or the USA then you should ask the individual labs. They are meant to work at capacity. The larger more advanced countries should show more testing.


[/quote]
7. Why is there a discrepancy in the number of samples analyzed by the different laboratories?

The number of samples analyzed by any particular laboratory depends primarily on the development of the national anti-doping program in the associated region. The number of international events hosted by the region, as well as the anti-doping programs associated with professional leagues and sports organizations outside of the Olympic movement, also play a role.

9. Do laboratories have to analyze a minimum number of samples?

The ISL requires that a WADA accredited laboratory performs analysis on a minimum of 3,000 (including urine and blood) samples per year. Any accredited laboratory that does not meet this figure is monitored closely by WADA.
[/quote]

Now if one lab is expected to pull 3000 samples a year then it is not so difficult to suggest that an advanced country, perhaps even one that has hosted an Olympics would have several.

The more testing you do the less scrutiny you will receive. It is to your countries benefit to test often.

The system is working just fine in Russia, China and America. We could be doing more though our violations are fewer. Many other countries need to catch up.

You see the countries who test the most and think foul play. I see the countries who test the least and think they need to be worked on. There cannot be too much testing.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: cufflinks on June 22, 2016, 08:29:57 AM
One wonders how many other countries would fail should they be subject to the same extensive protocols used against Russia.  Answer - MANY.

If they are going to use enhanced testing protocols against Russia they should be applied equally to all countries including the lily pure USA - how many of our premier athletes have been busted for doping - many - the allure of endorsement contracts and sponsorships that can make one a multimillionaire are just too great for those that win it all being Olympic Gold.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: andrewfi on June 22, 2016, 08:37:56 AM
Bagalia, look at the numbers I shared, read 'em and then get back to me. Do you honestly think that the US or UK have fewer testing labs than Russia?

REALLY, that's what you think?

Coz that's what you're telling us!

Then tell us why it would be that countries that have higher rates of drug testing failure have not suffered the same fate as Russia.
Do your REALLY think that there's nothing else going on here than a perfectly functioning system?

Coz that's what you're telling us!

Go look at the numbers, get your calculator out if you need it and inform yourself.

Bagalia, in life there's usually a reason for a pattern. There's a reason why, if it rains, it is Putin's fault!
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: bagalia on June 22, 2016, 12:16:07 PM
Bagalia, look at the numbers I shared, read 'em and then get back to me. Do you honestly think that the US or UK have fewer testing labs than Russia?

REALLY, that's what you think?

Coz that's what you're telling us!

Then tell us why it would be that countries that have higher rates of drug testing failure have not suffered the same fate as Russia.
Do your REALLY think that there's nothing else going on here than a perfectly functioning system?

Coz that's what you're telling us!

Go look at the numbers, get your calculator out if you need it and inform yourself.

Bagalia, in life there's usually a reason for a pattern. There's a reason why, if it rains, it is Putin's fault!

Don't know how simple I can make this for you Andrew.

WADA makes the international standards. NADO implements the standards within the individual countries.

From the NADO and WADA webpages:
"National Anti-Doping Organizations (NADOs) are Government-funded organizations responsible for testing national athletes in- and out-of-competition, as well as athletes from other countries competing within that nation’s borders; adjudicating anti-doping rules violations; and anti-doping education."

"governments can facilitate doping controls and support national testing programs; encourage the establishment of “best practice” in the labelling, marketing and distribution of products that might contain prohibited substances; withhold financial support from those who engage in or support doping;"

In simple words Andrew, Russia controls its testing program by funding and establishing the NADO within its borders. If you believe that Russia tests too much then talk to the Russian government about their policy of testing.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AvHdB on June 22, 2016, 08:36:55 PM
Andrew, what I do not understand is you give the impression that using PED's by Russian's is OK. It seems all the other posters on this thread have stated this is not acceptable. Really the big question is do those watching and competing want a level playing field?

If one studies how (in)frequently Russian athletes (but in fact it is not limited to Russia) fail out of country drug tests you might see a light go on. If you have one testing lab or a dozen in country this is not the issue.

And yes other sports are highly suspect, I would say in the United States one has only seen the top of the iceberg when it comes to professional sports, specifically Major League Base Ball. But again we are speaking about the Olympics so no reason to try to do a dodge or shuffle.



As for you new avatar, I cringed, I thought it was Ian Paisley at first. Now I just chuckle  tiphat
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AvHdB on June 28, 2016, 02:26:43 AM
If it were about doping then a list of Russian Athletes who have recently failed drugs tests would be banned from competition - not the whole national team!!

It is about doping. Some 60 plus athletes from Russia will compete in Rio this year. They have repeatedly tested clean.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: andrewfi on June 28, 2016, 03:13:41 AM
Bagalia,  I think you have been forgetting what you were writing about or,  at least,  not bothering to read what I was writing and simply imagining stuff.

The point I was making,  in simple terms,  just for you: the treatment meted out to Russia is not equal to the treatment meted out to other,  more offending, countries. The very fact that Russians are tested more meticulously than others makes exactly the point about this. The country that does more testing than anywhere else and has less failures per test than many other countries is accused of having a faulty testing regime and is banned, en masse from entering under the Russian flag in track and field.

If having a rigorous testing regime is evidence of fault then Russia should follow the US model and test less.

Who orders the tests was never my point,  you chose to invent it because you did not understand how the numbers were presented or what they were telling the numerate reader.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AvHdB on June 28, 2016, 03:23:32 AM
Bagalia,  I think you have been forgetting what you were writing about or,  at least,  not bothering to read what I was writing and simply imagining stuff.

The point I was making,  in simple terms,  just for you: the treatment meted out to Russia is not equal to the treatment meted out to other,  more offending, countries. The very fact that Russians are tested more meticulously than others makes exactly the point about this. The country that does more testing than anywhere else and has less failures per test than many other countries is accused of having a faulty testing regime and is banned, en masse from entering under the Russian flag in track and field.

If having a rigorous testing regime is evidence of fault then Russia should follow the US model and test less.

Who orders the tests was never my point,  you chose to invent it because you did not understand how the numbers were presented or what they were telling the numerate reader.

Andrew, try again or find your crayons.

The testing that has allowed the competitors, Russian, to compete was done out of country. This same standard applies to all other countries.

For the good order if one studies the statics that Andrew posted Russia (for a variety of reasons) fields more competitors. The issues that Andrew refuses to address are drugs, good or bad. Is the in country testing of Russia adequate.

My opinion, drugs are bad and the evidence points to an epic Chernobly failure of the Russian track and field 'federation'. These issues came to light after the Winter Olympics in Socchi and worked there way through the various sporting authorities. If Russia had cleaned up its act the reality today would be different.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: andrewfi on June 28, 2016, 03:44:07 AM
AvHdB, for YOUR assistance, I have not suggested taking drugs was OK. You have made that suggestion for me.

As it is obvious that you, as with Bagalia prefer to have a discussion without benefit of actually reading the primary sources, or if reading, not understanding, it is rather like trying to teach a cat to play fetch. In the short term it is fun, longer term it gets boring really fast.

Let us try this for you, in simple words, without numbers and with simple concepts - as if for a bright 5 year old: It does not really matter where tests are carried out. Bagalia was raising that point, not I. Do you understand? I merely pointed out that, if as he suggested, the testing was at the behest of Russian officials that this is not congruent with a lax testing regime.

Russia is far from being the worst offender in respect of infractions but is treated very differently to all other countries. This suggests that Russia has been targeted for such treatment, otherwise Ukraine, United States and others would be excluded from the event.
Here's a little thought experiment for your 5 year old mind: If two sets of athletes have the same failure rate in testing would it seem reasonable that the outcome of those failures should be the same? Yes, or No?

If you think 'no' then please explain, objectively, why discrimination is appropriate.

Is that easy enough for you?

Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AvHdB on June 28, 2016, 03:51:36 AM
Andrew, easy enough for you?

Andrew, keep on trying, I looked at the sources with some one who particpated first as a competitor and than a coach in Olympic events. And the reality is black and white. Only are trying dodge the reality.

It is about a simple reality Russia had an epic PED meltdown. This has come back to bite them and you are the sore loser. Please move on.

THERE IS NO DISCRIMINATION.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AvHdB on June 28, 2016, 03:59:12 AM
If two sets of athletes have the same failure rate in testing would it seem reasonable that the outcome of those failures should be the same?

You would not reply regarding PED's are acceptable and now this. Please Andrew stop, I respect you but this eroding confidence. The entire discussion is becoming stupid. You can not be so challenged to understand that Russian athletes (and those of other countries) have failed out of country testing repeatedly. Your bull shit and whinging is pathetic.

Please study (add up) the numbers and after you get your socks back on please let RUA know.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: bagalia on June 28, 2016, 02:18:28 PM
The point I was making,  in simple terms,  just for you: the treatment meted out to Russia is not equal to the treatment meted out to other,  more offending, countries.

The whole investigation began with a Russian whistle blower.

The independent council found that doping was state sponsored. If it were only individuals then individuals would be penalized. Nobody said that other countries don't have doping problems. It was in fact said that this is only the tip of the iceberg worldwide. The difference here is that this investigation started with a Russian athlete whistle blower. You can disagree with the result but it is pretty cut and dry.

The very fact that Russians are tested more meticulously than others makes exactly the point about this. The country that does more testing than anywhere else and has less failures per test than many other countries is accused of having a faulty testing regime and is banned, en masse from entering under the Russian flag in track and field.

Russians are tested more often because Russia set up the schedule. It has already been noted that more testing equals less scrutiny. It is to Russia's benefit to test more often but it is assumed that all will be handled honestly.

Russia is a corrupt country. You know this as well as anyone. Russia is corrupt, Moldova, Ukraine and any other country in that sphere is corrupt. The Olympics are extremely important to Russia. You may wish to say this is opinion but I would like to hear from you that it is untrue so I can have a good laugh.

So if a corrupt state wishes to dope say 100 out of 1000 athletes and does 500 tests it will look bad. If it tests 8000 it will look better and at 14000 it will seem minuscule.

If having a rigorous testing regime is evidence of fault then Russia should follow the US model and test less.

That would look rather bad as noted above.

Who orders the tests was never my point,  you chose to invent it because you did not understand how the numbers were presented or what they were telling the numerate reader.

Yes, it was a half of your point. They are tested too much and the penalty is not proportionate is the whole point. You can argue the latter if you wish.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: bagalia on July 18, 2016, 11:11:20 PM
https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/20160718_ip_report_final3.pdf

Just to put things where they belong, the WADA report is out, all 97 pages. It can be repetitious reading but for those who like minutia and the full accounts of what, when and who, it could be the perfect stocking stuffer. For others it will be better than sleepy time tea after a long day.

Liar, Liar, pants on fire. This scam was going a long time and they put a lot of effort into it. The country will be lucky if they only ban half the athletes. All is not lost though as table tennis remains one of the most clean sports of the lot.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: froid on July 20, 2016, 07:02:01 AM
Supposed to be hearing the results of Russia's appeal for the Track and Field ban on Thursday.  And then a final decision on Sunday regarding the whole team.  My wife's take on it all..."Well this is old news why is everyone surprised?".   
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AvHdB on July 20, 2016, 08:33:28 AM
The recent news is not good news.

There are clean Russian athletes, who have passed, international tests with no red flags. To punish this group is sad. They have often devoted more than ten years of there lives to reach this pinnacle.

On the other side there is no more doubt at a lower level the use of PED's was systemic.

When I wrote that I doubted that Russia was on an organized level running a sporting organization that abused PED's I really could not fathom this in early 2016. The reality though there are those who see prestige in Olympic medals even if they are obtained unfairly. Will heads roll in Moscow yes but not at the proper places.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: Cobaka on July 20, 2016, 11:35:01 AM

 I have yet to read story one on how much better prepared Russia was over Rio. Russia was hammered and in my opinion Rio's best day is going to have more health and violence concerns for the athletes and visitors by a factor of probably 100.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: bagalia on July 23, 2016, 12:47:05 AM
You just cannot get better comedy than here. Putin speaking about the whole doping mess. I just pasted the best part below. It is all worth a read. Putin talks of a new doping commission in Russia he is creating.

--------------------------

"Such a commission should be headed by a person with an absolutely unimpeachable reputation, who has the trust and respect of the Olympic family," Putin said. "There is such a person in our country and he is Vitaly Georgievich Smirnov."

Smirnov once served as the Soviet Union's deputy sports minister and helped to organize the 1980 Olympics in Moscow.

Smirnov, a former IOC vice president, was among five IOC members given a "serious warning" in 1999 for their role in the Salt Lake City bid scandal. A total of 10 members resigned or were expelled for receiving cash, gifts and other improper inducements during the city's winning bid for the 2002 Winter Games.

Smirnov suggested in televised comments that the Russian doping scandal was a series of "misunderstandings," and said the new commission would aim to eradicate performance-enhancing drug use from sport entirely. "We will work to eliminate the problem," he said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/putin-orders-creation-anti-doping-commission-133803820--spt.html
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: andrewfi on July 23, 2016, 12:03:23 PM
I have been reading the 'report' upon which the latest silliness is based.

It is a sorry thing. You can read it here: This would not make a plausible movie plot. (https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/20160718_ip_report_final3.pdf)

The story we are supposed to believe is riddled with plot holes, is based upon the 'testimony' of a man who benefited from the provision of that testimony and is entirely unsupported by any kind of documentary evidence.

In addition it presupposes that Sochi athletes were being 'protected' by the scheme without their knowledge. This is ridiculous as this means we are supposed to believe that athletes were taking PEDs but were doing nothing to conceal their effects AND were participating in the Sochi Olympics as well as earlier events. This is just silly because it beggars belief that athletes would be taking PEDs and not taking steps to conceal the action.

There's some practical matters as well. A passage I have just read tells us that an Excel spreadsheet was provided as evidence and that the 'metadata' of that document shows it was created by the liar who has made this report and at a time when he was taking actions that led to him being sanctioned by the Russians.
Setting aside the credibility of such a witness for a moment; as anyone who uses Excel knows, it is the work of a moment to either scrub such metadata or ensure that none is ever associated with the document's creation. It is also trivial to create the same metadata. Anyone who has gone to university in the past 30 or so years and studied a numerate course knows about that feature and will have used that feature. To expect that the person at the heart of this imagined conspiracy, the person who is guilty of doping and its concealment, would have not made sure that his records were clear of metadata is either a fool or a liar.
The only way the document would exist, in a world where such skullduggery was going on, would be if the creator made the document specifically to support a tale of the kind Rodionova has concocted. He'd not have made such a document at the time in the expectation of not being caught.

I am sure that there will never be any evidence of wrong doing in this case ever presented because it does not exist. This is a made up story just as the Americans were fooled by the Iraqi codenamed 'curveball' (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/feb/15/defector-admits-wmd-lies-iraq-war). The Americans believed his lies because it was what they wanted, needed, to believe.

Oddly enough the best way that Russian athletes can prove they were the victims of fraud is now, purposefully denied to them. If the claims made by WADA are true then the Russian team would be expected to perform very badly at Rio, in an environment where, if we believe Rodionova's tale, the same environment to protect Russian athletes will not exist.
There's simply no way that the Russians can be allowed to compete in the Olympics now.

Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: Danchik on July 24, 2016, 02:43:08 AM
You just cannot get better comedy than here.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/putin-orders-creation-anti-doping-commission-133803820--spt.html
You must have missed the Republican National Convention last week.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: leslied on July 24, 2016, 01:21:20 PM
I have just wasted some of my leisure time browsing that report.  It is simply not credible,  I do not think the authors or their principle witness would survive legal cross examination.  I can only surmise that it was concocted for political reasons.

Perhaps the status of this report was considered by the IOC in their decision not to impose a blanket ban on the Russian team.  To impose such a ban on the basis of the evidence offered in that report would have left the IOC subject to ridicule and justified condemnation for making that decision not on evidence but rather on political bias.

The systematic use of PED's must end but not by scapegoating the whole Russian team  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: andrewfi on July 24, 2016, 02:49:18 PM
It is a pitiful creation and,  I believe, written in the expectation that very few people would read it. The design was that it would be used to program the Marching Morons who would never read the original work.

I think that you are right about the IOC's response but I was surprised that they did not give in to the pressure to act upon the 'recommendations' of the political stakeholders. One can note something of the position of the IOC from their comments in respect of the refusal to allow the sanctioned runner Yulia Stepanova to compete. They were not 'kind' to her.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: bagalia on July 24, 2016, 03:52:05 PM
I have similar thoughts when it is claimed that the US was behind Maidan. The proof just isn't there but if it can be linked circumstantially then both can. The Olympics is a really big thing even more in Russia than in America.

But it seemed to have ended on a half decent note. Only those participants deemed to have been part of this will be locked out and that means some bit of proof needs be submitted. No?
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AvHdB on August 05, 2016, 05:46:25 PM
271


That is the number of Russian athletes competing in the Olympics in the coming weeks.

Yes the entire track team is banned with an exception or two. It makes little sense to ban a sailing team, PED's will not get you over the finish line faster, OK maybe in the Finn class.

Reading the report is interesting, not withstanding the protestations and whining of some it is a very damming report. The assertation of some here is pathetic. Most of the arguments are easy to confirm with checking facts and details.

Enjoy the competition, it will be an interesting diversion from stupid versus liar for two weeks.
Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: andrewfi on August 06, 2016, 03:55:07 AM
AvHdB, you are probably unacquainted with the preparation of objective, analytical, reports and are thus easily fooled.

The IOC are less easily fooled and are making it clear that they are not at all convinced by the 'evidence' presented by the work of fiction from WADA. In addition both the WADA and the author of the piece are busy walking back their claims.

Bagalia, once again you miss the facts.  :'(
There are many athletes who are not 'part of this' who are not able to compete. This is not a half decent note.
In point of fact the timing of the report means that NO evidence has actually been submitted. There are now cases before the CAS, 18.

From the BBC:
Quote
But the ROC says another five cases are still pending - three track cyclists, one wrestler and one canoeist.

Additionally, the Court of Arbitration for Sport (Cas) has asked for the cases of another three athletes to be looked at again after they appealed against being banned.

In partially upholding the appeals of rowers Anastasia Karabelshikova and Ivan Podshivalov, and swimmer Yulia Efimova, Cas said the IOC could legitimately block Russian athletes from competing if it had any doubt over whether they had ever doped.

But it said the IOC was wrong to insist Russian athletes who had previously been sanctioned could not go to the Games, calling the decision "unenforceable".

This supports an earlier Cas decision - known as the Osaka rule - which established athletes could not be punished twice for the same doping offence.

And it means athletes banned from Rio because they have previously been sanctioned for doping could now challenge the decision to make them stay at home.

Cas has already heard 18 cases since its division in Rio was opened on 26 July, a record for one Olympics.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/36970627

Because there is no evidence against many of the 'banned' athletes it is likely that there will be legal challenges and claims for damages after the Olympics. This is why the CAS has been busy reinstating athletes and why both the WADA and the report author, Richard Mclaren are toning down their previous claims and walking back their tales. Expect to see some more arse covering and back biting over the next few days and weeks.


Title: Re: Russian Athletes banned from Rio Olympics
Post by: AvHdB on August 06, 2016, 07:09:19 AM
Nice spin Andrew. Basically By inference you are saying the use of PED's is acceptable. The report details the mechanism that the Russian's used & they were caught.

Please get over it.

The hopefully clean athlete will pursue there dreams and goals.