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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43295134 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43295134)
Critically ill man 'former Russian spy'
"A man who is critically ill after being exposed to an unknown substance in Wiltshire is a Russian national convicted of spying for Britain, the BBC understands.
Sergei Skripal, who is 66, was granted refuge in the UK following a "spy swap" between the US and Russia in 2010.
Police declared a major incident on Sunday after a man and a woman were reported ill at a shopping centre in Salisbury.
The substance has not been identified.
Police are investigating whether a crime has been committed, following the incident which began at 16:15 GMT on Sunday at the Maltings shopping centre in central Salisbury.
Skripal, who is a retired Russian military intelligence colonel, was jailed for 13 years in 2006 for spying for Britain."
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Ex-Russian double agent Skripal & daughter were exposed to nerve agent, police confirm https://www.rt.com/uk/420740-russia-spy-wiltshire-agent/
Nerve agents? A Policeman in a serious condition?
Not your everyday poisoning
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Now possibly similar to what happened to Kim Jong Un's half-brother.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/928558/Russia-spy-latest-Sergei-Skripal-nerve-agent-poison-salisbury
https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/apos-traitors-kick-bucket-apos-223510326.html
:-\
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"Multiple people have been treated, around 21 people, including the man and woman found on the bench,"
Investigators have identified the nerve agent used on the pair, but are not making it public at this point.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/03/08/uk-officials-say-21-people-treated-in-ex-russian-spy-poisoning.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/nerve-agent-used-to-poison-sergei-skripal-was-extremely-rare-2018-3
https://www.yahoo.com/news/nerve-agents-deadliest-chemical-weapons-194325408.html
Anyone who plays around with WMD material is not going to worry about collateral damages. :evilgrin0002:
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Ex-Russian double agent Skripal & daughter were exposed to nerve agent, police confirm https://www.rt.com/uk/420740-russia-spy-wiltshire-agent/
Nerve agents? A Policeman in a serious condition?
Not your everyday poisoning
Right, but proving it will be another matter. Just like proving who killed Litvinenko. Polonium is not something your average day killer/terrorist/etc. can acquire. It almost screams "state kill" from the start, yet noone proved it was russia yet.
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Ex-Russian double agent Skripal & daughter were exposed to nerve agent, police confirm https://www.rt.com/uk/420740-russia-spy-wiltshire-agent/
Nerve agents? A Policeman in a serious condition?
Not your everyday poisoning
Right, but proving it will be another matter. Just like proving who killed Litvinenko. Polonium is not something your average day killer/terrorist/etc. can acquire. It almost screams "state kill" from the start, yet noone proved it was russia yet.
I read in the papers yesterday (don't know which one as I read them all when I've time), An ex MI5 boss stated that it was most unlikely that Russia was involved, and that the whole thing stinks of a set up to blame Russia...
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Right, but proving it will be another matter. Just like proving who killed Litvinenko. Polonium is not something your average day killer/terrorist/etc. can acquire. It almost screams "state kill" from the start, yet noone proved it was russia yet.
'Sure'
It wasn't a serving member of the Duma..
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I read in the papers yesterday (don't know which one as I read them all when I've time), An ex MI5 boss stated that it was most unlikely that Russia was involved, and that the whole thing stinks of a set up to blame Russia...
That's one theory - but what would be the point? - it's not exactly like UK - RU relations are 'great' and what good does blaming the Kremlin do - other than proving HMG are powerless to prevent such attacks?
Sergey Larov is telling us in Britain that's it's hysterical propaganda ... this isn't Russia ... Maskirovka isn't something the UK are very good at.
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OMG..
No wonder 'we're hysterical' ..
Russian Pervy Kanal News anchor ..
http://www.independent.co.uk/video/News/sergei-skripal-russian-state-tv-anchor-kirill-kleimenov-rare-traitors-live-old-age-a8246666.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/video/News/sergei-skripal-russian-state-tv-anchor-kirill-kleimenov-rare-traitors-live-old-age-a8246666.html)
"it is 'rare that traitors live to old age'
Does that apply to 'patriots', too ? ;)
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Ex-Russian double agent Skripal & daughter were exposed to nerve agent, police confirm https://www.rt.com/uk/420740-russia-spy-wiltshire-agent/
Nerve agents? A Policeman in a serious condition?
Not your everyday poisoning
Right, but proving it will be another matter. Just like proving who killed Litvinenko. Polonium is not something your average day killer/terrorist/etc. can acquire. It almost screams "state kill" from the start, yet noone proved it was russia yet.
I read in the papers yesterday (don't know which one as I read them all when I've time), An ex MI5 boss stated that it was most unlikely that Russia was involved, and that the whole thing stinks of a set up to blame Russia...
As far fetched as that sounds, you could well be right. It's reasonable to ask, why would Russia do something so obvious in the UK, that would lead to an enquiry?
A bit like why would Assad use chemical weapons on his own people, having just been told what would happen if we used chemical weapons on his own people.
I doubt the Russian government or Assad are stupid.
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What we seem to be witnessing is a repeat of a modus operandum of the UK in respect of Russia that we have seen before. If the killing of former 'intelligence operative' turncoats was a policy for Russia then, of course, we would have seen it in other places - we haven't.
Does it make sense for Russia to have one policy for turncoats living in the UK and another for everywhere else in the world?
Does it make sense for Russia to be killing off 'sensitive' targets in the UK, or anywhere else, at this time?
Occam's Razor suggests that whatever happened in the UK it is more likely to be about the UK than Russia.
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What we seem to be witnessing is a repeat of a modus operandum of the UK in respect of Russia that we have seen before. If the killing of former 'intelligence operative' turncoats was a policy for Russia then, of course, we would have seen it in other places - we haven't.
Does it make sense for Russia to have one policy for turncoats living in the UK and another for everywhere else in the world?
Does it make sense for Russia to be killing off 'sensitive' targets in the UK, or anywhere else, at this time?
Occam's Razor suggests that whatever happened in the UK it is more likely to be about the UK than Russia.
I’m no Putin fan but these modus operandi do seem a bit Dr. Evil ish.
On the other hand Putin is a wiley fox, certainly a million times brainier than thicko Trump, so double bluff? He’s ruthless enough that’s for sure.
I think not though...
.
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....certainly a million times brainier than thicko Trump.....
.
:laugh:
Come on buddy, just let that bile calm down and enjoy your weekend.
:8)
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Dr Evilish, yes.
Objectively, it makes no sense for any sensible Russian, in a position to do so, to order the assassination of anyone sensitive at this time.
The only way that such a scenario works is if the authorization came from somebody who was an opponent of the current government and state of Russia and that is pretty circular as it would also mean that such a person was actually an ally of the UK government.
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I doubt the Russian government or Assad are stupid.
History is replete with errors, mistakes, blunders, foolish actions. History always repeats itself.
So who killed Kim Jong Un's half-brother? Obviously the CIA to foment a nuclear war with the DPRK. (:)
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From a historical standpoint one can look at the assassination of Trotsky by Stalin.
This happened elsewhere and it certainly had nothing to do with Mexico.
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A chemical weapons attack on British soil, with a high chance of collateral casualties outside the ‘intended target’, in full view of the public.
It’s just too reduculous. If they wanted the bloke dead, he’d have disappeared or died with pin point precision.
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A chemical weapons attack on British soil, with a high chance of collateral casualties outside the ‘intended target’, in full view of the public.
It’s just too reduculous. If they wanted the bloke dead, he’d have disappeared or died with pin point precision.
Yep, but of course new sanctions against Russia over this 'incident' are being prepared by the UK.
Right, tried, convicted and found guilty without a shred of evidence it was Russia.
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A chemical weapons attack on British soil, with a high chance of collateral casualties outside the ‘intended target’, in full view of the public.
It’s just too reduculous. If they wanted the bloke dead, he’d have disappeared or died with pin point precision.
Yep, but of course new sanctions against Russia over this 'incident' are being prepared by the UK.
Right, tried, convicted and found guilty without a shred of evidence it was Russia.
Exactly that. We can't prove it wasn't Russia but there's no proof it was. But lets just ramp up the hostility and add more sanctions anyway.
I went for a pint after work last night and I heard randoms talking about Russia doing this and Russia doing that. It's sad to see the state of society and shows you the power of the media.
:dh:
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Some suggest it's a message to expats...from Moscow
If so McMafia, was closer to fact than fiction
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Well, it's all kicked off in the UK - with the PM stating on the evidence so far - the poison used was a Russian designed nerve agent - 'Novichok' ( New kind ?)
In combination with RU state-owned media suggesting the 'UK isn't a safe place for traitors' it does rather point to a hit that used the sort of stuff only states control.
The UK isn't well-known for Maskirovka ( deception ) - nor bumping off / taking out opposition.... Moscow does seem to have a large number of unfortunate events befalling opposition folk abroad and even has legislation to allow retribution
On a personal front, I don't want RU - UK visas to be affected for normal folks
Two sides of the coin:
UK.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43381880
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43381880)
Russia: https://www.rt.com/news/421126-lavrov-response-uk-skripal/ (https://www.rt.com/news/421126-lavrov-response-uk-skripal/)
I hardly think Mrs May is 'under pressure' to blame the Kremlin... if the boot was on the other foot - and ( say ) Philby had been killed by a UK brand of nerve agent....
IF Moscow had jumped in and offered help - instead of the state run media talking about traitors 'not growing old' - they'd look a LOT less 'guilty'
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“It came from Russia,” Tillerson said, according to the Associated Press. “I cannot understand why anyone would take such an action. But this is a substance that is known to us and does not exist widely.”
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-ousts-tillerson-will-replace-him-as-secretary-of-state-with-cia-chief-pompeo/ar-BBKaaqF?li=BBnb7Kz
Why do such a thing? To test the biological weapon on a small scale to see its effect and to how to deploy it when you want a higher kill ratio. :evilgrin0002:
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Well, it's all kicked off in the UK - with the PM stating on the evidence so far - the poison used was a Russian designed nerve agent - 'Novichok' ( New kind ?)
In combination with RU state-owned media suggesting the 'UK isn't a safe place for traitors' it does rather point to a hit that used the sort of stuff only states control.
The UK isn't well-known for Maskirovka ( deception ) - nor bumping off / taking out opposition.... Moscow does seem to have a large number of unfortunate events befalling opposition folk abroad and even has legislation to allow retribution
On a personal front, I don't want RU - UK visas to be affected for normal folks
Two sides of the coin:
UK.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43381880
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43381880)
Russia: https://www.rt.com/news/421126-lavrov-response-uk-skripal/ (https://www.rt.com/news/421126-lavrov-response-uk-skripal/)
I hardly think Mrs May is 'under pressure' to blame the Kremlin... if the boot was on the other foot - and ( say ) Philby had been killed by a UK brand of nerve agent....
IF Moscow had jumped in and offered help - instead of the state run media talking about traitors 'not growing old' - they'd look a LOT less 'guilty'
Remember Georgei Markov, the Bulgarian bumped off by some secret service on a London Bridge with some poison on the end of an umbrella? There is past history of the Soviet Bloc doing people with overly complicated methods.
I believe, it was Mr Putin, in the pub, in Salisbury with the poison.....
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In the meantime, the England Football Team prepare for the World Cup this year in Russia....
(https://s5.postimg.org/p00bdyqjr/IMG_0525.jpg)
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He said: "It's a brazen attack. Putin thinks he can use everything to kill enemies. They don't tolerate any opponents.
"They should be punished. It's an open demonstration of this Russian terrorism.
"The Russian government is telling people who are thinking about revealing more secrets that they can expect the same fate."
http://www.businessinsider.com/novichok-scientist-vil-mirzayanov-describes-nerve-agent-used-on-sergei-skripal-2018-3?r=UK&IR=T
http://www.newsweek.com/russia-threatens-attack-us-forces-if-trump-strikes-syria-again-843128
https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-russia-demands-samples-nerve-agent-103334655.html
Who could be behind this? Maybe ISIS to bring about a nuclear war between west and east? But, Putin said that he would destroy the world if Russia is attacked, so ISIS must walk a fine line. But, they still have the 72 virgins in the afterlife, so a destroyed world may not be a bad thing. :chuckle:
The incident was timed to harm Putin in Sunday's election - 'this is the purpose of this provocation', he said
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5492781/Scientist-reveals-horror-lethal-nerve-agent-Novichok.html
Ahh, here we have the real reason. To meddle in Russia's upcoming election. A nuclear war is the only thing to stop a Putin victory. :chuckle:
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In the meantime, the England Football Team prepare for the World Cup this year in Russia....
(https://s5.postimg.org/p00bdyqjr/IMG_0525.jpg)
Anything to take the heat off England getting pumped at the group stage. :)
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But, they still have the 72 virgins in the afterlife, so a destroyed world may not be a bad thing. :chuckle:
1 of the 72... and the other christian nuns don't look any better...
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1365/671655540_59bd444d68.jpg)
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Why has there been hardly any press converage of the Oligarch who was "whacked" at his London home on Sunday night?
Is that just too domestic or was he linked to Salisbury?
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Why has there been hardly any press converage of the Oligarch who was "whacked" at his London home on Sunday night?
Is that just too domestic or was he linked to Salisbury?
I read about it but there was no suggestion of foul play at the time. Has that changed?
Of course, from now on anyone dying in Britain with a name such as Oleg, Ivan, or Vadim, is going to be held up as an assassination by the Russian state!
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I believe, it was Mr Putin, in the pub, in Salisbury with the poison.....
I believe it was Colonel Mustard with the candlestick
in the conservatory.
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Colonel Mustard is more likely to confess to this.
Please jog my memory if needed but I cant remember Browns response to the Litvenyenko murder amounting to much. Sunday nights murder has virtually gone unnoticed so there is clearly some complacency regarding Russian hits on British soil. Therefore, why the fuss about Salisbury?
Is it that the use of Novochok endangered the lives of Wiltshires wider community?...... If the poor Copper handled Polonium he wouldnt be very well now, would he?.......
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This Novochok stuff is pretty poor stuff if it doesn't kill any of the people it comes into contact with and can be neutralized by wiping with a baby wipe!
This level of response to deadly threat seems to be right out of the White Helmet's training manual for dealing with 'sarin gas'!
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A chemical weapons attack on British soil, with a high chance of collateral casualties outside the ‘intended target’, in full view of the public.
It’s just too reduculous. If they wanted the bloke dead, he’d have disappeared or died with pin point precision.
It could have been a false flag operation. Like the Lusitania was. Ask yourself who benefits from making Russia the boogeyman?
Now with 23 Russian diplomats expelled the acrimony is building. As they hope. :coffeeread:
https://jamesperloff.com/2014/05/21/false-flag-at-sea/
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There is a delicious irony here... Certain folks on here (who don't even go to Russia and haven't a scoobie) are in agreement with Jeremy Corbyn !
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What was it Boris said to Lavrov at the end of last year? Britain has "abundant evidence" of Russias interference in democratic processes throughout the world............ including a certain Referendum............. I shant mention its name........... in fact no one has mentioned the "B" word since this attempted murder and its apparently disproportionate "tit for tat" response from Westminster........ How strange.......... :whist11:
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Well, it's all kicked off in the UK - with the PM stating on the evidence so far - the poison used was a Russian designed nerve agent - 'Novichok' ( New kind ?)
Did you listen to the comments and explanations of the Russian Ambassador at the emergency meeting (Yesterday) at the UN, of the Security Council, at the instigation of the UK?
Did you also listen to Mrs May statements at the Parliament and the questions asked by Corbyn?
If yes then, why Mrs May choose to accuse Russia and take measures against, without any credible evidence to prove her accusations and why she did not made an official request to Russia to examine the chemical findings of "Novichok" via the International organisation for Chemical Weapons ?
Anything to do with "Diversion" for her own political survival, because of Brexit ?
The UK isn't well-known for Maskirovka ( deception ) - nor bumping off / taking out opposition....
May I remind you of the Operation Flavius, a controversial military operation in which three members of the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) were shot dead by the British Special Air Service (SAS) in Gibraltar on 6 March 1988.
What about the UK air and drone strikes in Iraq and Syria?
https://dronewars.net/2017/08/30/new-foi-figures-on-uk-air-and-drone-strikes-in-iraq-and-syria/
Two sides of the coin:
UK.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43381880 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43381880)
Russia: https://www.rt.com/news/421126-lavrov-response-uk-skripal/ (https://www.rt.com/news/421126-lavrov-response-uk-skripal/)
I hardly think Mrs May is 'under pressure' to blame the Kremlin...
IF Moscow had jumped in and offered help - instead of the state run media talking about traitors 'not growing old' - they'd look a LOT less 'guilty'
Really? ... How long do you think she will survive with no majority in Parliaments?
Judge and Jury....Guilty verdict without providing any credible evidence! :'(
tiphat
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Moby, I am sure that you already knew, but chose the path less honest, that the Russian government had already offered their assistance but that the British government rejected it.
In addition, the Russian government formally requested that Britain follow its obligations under the OPCW, to which both countries are a signatory. Britain has refused to comply with those obligations rendering it impossible for Russia to be able to comply with the demands of the British government or the normal channels of the OPCW.
It seems rather odd that Britain has chosen to abrogate its treaty obligations whilst making it impossible for Russia to take any action of any kind except to respond to British provocation.
As a mere grammar school chemist, I confess myself somewhat confused as to how a compound, reputedly, so dangerous in handling that many Russian chemists died as a result of merely handling and combining the chemical constituents, so dangerous that it is supposedly 10 times as dangerous as the other bogeyman du jour, VX gas, has not successfully killed the claimed targets and is considered so innocuous that recommendations for those who may have been exposed to the compound are to merely wipe down with baby wipes and launder exposed clothing.
At the same time, one wonders, given that the constiutents of this group of nerve agents are well known in the relevant circles, why are the raw materials not controlled by the OPCW as is normal in such cases? Might it be that the case against these compounds is more myth than reality?
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Moby, I am sure that you already knew, but chose the path less honest, that the Russian government had already offered their assistance but that the British government rejected it.
andrewfi, the irony of your discussing honesty - based on your history for making stuff up .. really ?
As you cannot understand much Russian - I'll remind you - that the most interesting reactions came from the Kremlin owned / controlled by oligarch friendly with the Kremlin... 'traitors will not live to an old age' ...
"Russian government had already offered their assistance" - I'm quite sure you'll understand that neither of us are privy to the earliest findings of the nature of the substance used and I'm interested to note that one would expect death if coming into contact with such an agent - but if the agent is indeed a Novichok are you suggesting the UK risked killing it's own citizens ?
That sort of thing might work in not so democratic nations - but such stunts would not stay a secret in the UK.
Neither you, nor I know in what capacity the victims were co-operating with the UK and who their help might have been 'annoying'.
Now, you might not question then harm that those not supporting the Kremlin encounter - but the evidence that harm is the end result is overwhelming.
In addition, the Russian government formally requested that Britain follow its obligations under the OPCW, to which both countries are a signatory. Britain has refused to comply with those obligations rendering it impossible for Russia to be able to comply with the demands of the British government or the normal channels of the OPCW.
As I understand it, Russia will have a sample of the poison for inspection - it does not preclude the UK taking action to prevent further attacks on it's soil
It seems rather odd that Britain has chosen to abrogate its treaty obligations whilst making it impossible for Russia to take any action of any kind except to respond to British provocation.
'Provocation' would be involvement in encouraging, facilitating or allowing such an attack
As a mere grammar school chemist, I confess myself somewhat confused as to how a compound, reputedly, so dangerous in handling that many Russian chemists died as a result of merely handling and combining the chemical constituents, so dangerous that it is supposedly 10 times as dangerous as the other bogeyman du jour, VX gas, has not successfully killed the claimed targets and is considered so innocuous that recommendations for those who may have been exposed to the compound are to merely wipe down with baby wipes and launder exposed clothing.
At the same time, one wonders, given that the constiutents of this group of nerve agents are well known in the relevant circles, why are the raw materials not controlled by the OPCW as is normal in such cases? Might it be that the case against these compounds is more myth than reality?
This is the only point we both question
Remember, this is a country run by former KGB officers who have had 'differences' and many have met their deaths
If you can't see any correlation it's not only school boy chemistry were you lack the skills to be objective
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Moby's mate Corbyn isn't right about much, but he is right about this.
Its stupid of the UK government to be expelling diplomats when there is no proof.
The Russophobia pedalled by the media and the government is running high at the moment, we are even blaming our weather on Russia. This is part of another agenda I am sure.
Did Russia poison the bloke? The guy was a traitor to Russia, spying for the Brits, now British and hiding out in the UK. Someone was bound to bump him off or have a go at him eventually. Its somewhat of an occupational habit for traitorous spies.
The thing is this: If Russia wanted him dead quietly he would be dead quietly. This sounds more like a false flag operation conducted by the west against a disposable operative that was designed to have the "hallmarks" of what the media imagines a Russian hit is or should be.
The fact the UK government is acting against treaties and without proof shows us something else is going on here.
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Don't be silly. A former Russian spy, viewed by Russia as a traitor, is poisoned by a nerve agent produced only in Russia, and the Russians didn't do it?
It's intended to be very public, so that other "traitors" (and that is how Skripal is viewed, not only in the Kremlin, but by the Russian public at large) think twice before "betraying" their country.
The fact these nerve agents made their way into the UK undetected, though, suggests some agency in the UK is not doing its job.
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How do we know the exact substance and source? Russia hasn't had a chance to investigate it as the UK wouldn't cough up a sample.
Last I read the same stuff was also UK produced at Porta Down.
It's intended to be very public, so that other "traitors" (and that is how Skripal is viewed, not only in the Kremlin, but by the Russian public at large) think twice before "betraying" their country.
That also remains a possibility. And it will likely be quite effective.
We shouldn't be hiding Russian fugitives anyway. :coffeeread:
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How do we know the exact substance and source? Russia hasn't had a chance to investigate it as the UK wouldn't cough up a sample.
Last I read the same stuff was also UK produced at Porta Down.
Skripal was living a quiet life in a sleepy UK town. He was a double agent, arrested in Russia and swapped by the US. Russian double agents who settle in the UK have a nasty habit of dying of poisoning, usually traced to a Russian source.
The mindset of the Russian leadership class is the mindset from which they sprung, the analytic division of the former KGB. I have far more experience with them than anyone here, and this is nothing surprising or innovative.
That also remains a possibility. And it will likely be quite effective.
Depends. Most double spies are double spies for ideological reasons.
We shouldn't be hiding Russian fugitives anyway. :coffeeread:
He's wasn't a fugitive. He was swapped for Russian sleeper agents, caught and arrested largely in the US.
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How do we know the exact substance and source? Russia hasn't had a chance to investigate it as the UK wouldn't cough up a sample.
Last I read the same stuff was also UK produced at Porta Down.
Skripal was living a quiet life in a sleepy UK town. He was a double agent, arrested in Russia and swapped by the US. Russian double agents who settle in the UK have a nasty habit of dying of poisoning, usually traced to a Russian source.
The mindset of the Russian leadership class is the mindset from which they sprung, the analytic division of the former KGB. I have far more experience with them than anyone here, and this is nothing surprising or innovative.
That also remains a possibility. And it will likely be quite effective.
Depends. Most double spies are double spies for ideological reasons.
We shouldn't be hiding Russian fugitives anyway. :coffeeread:
He's wasn't a fugitive. He was swapped for Russian sleeper agents, caught and arrested largely in the US.
Were you Red Sparrow?
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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Just a girl in love with a young man from the wrong ideological class.
Believe me, it wasn’t funny at the time. But I’m happy for the unique experiences now.
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Just a girl in love with a young man from the wrong ideological class.
Believe me, it wasn’t funny at the time. But I’m happy for the unique experiences now.
tiphat Class.
In reference to who may have done this (?)
99.99% it was false flag. Follow the money.
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tiphat Class.
In reference to who may have done this (?)
99.99% it was false flag. Follow the money.
No, the use of a Cold War nerve agent was intended to be very public, and to send a message. If the Russians had wanted to kill Skripal quietly, they would have.
I don’t believe money plays any role here.
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tiphat Class.
In reference to who may have done this (?)
99.99% it was false flag. Follow the money.
No, the use of a Cold War nerve agent was intended to be very public, and to send a message. If the Russians had wanted to kill Skripal quietly, they would have.
I don’t believe money plays any role here.
Because you’re missing the larger picture and focusing on (what appears to be) the obvious.
I posted a link above which takes time and patience to read the whole thing but shows clearly who would profit.
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No, the use of a Cold War nerve agent was intended to be very public, and to send a message. If the Russians had wanted to kill Skripal quietly, they would have.
I don’t believe money plays any role here.
If somebody held a gun to my head and said "who dunnit?"
I would say Russia nobody else makes sense.
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/spyversusspy/images/a/a9/Spy-vs-spy.png/revision/latest?cb=20111219222918)
For those who want to read an conspiracy theory that the
daughter was the real target can follow this link. I don't
think that there is any merit in the theory.
http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/the-daughter-of-former-russian-spy-sergei-skripal-was-the-real-target-of-the-nerve-agent-attack-relative-claims/news-story/5d7bb94389d882b6a41ee4afc5cc5d01
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No, the use of a Cold War nerve agent was intended to be very public, and to send a message. If the Russians had wanted to kill Skripal quietly, they would have.
I don’t believe money plays any role here.
If somebody held a gun to my head and said "who dunnit?"
I would say Russia nobody else makes sense.
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/spyversusspy/images/a/a9/Spy-vs-spy.png/revision/latest?cb=20111219222918)
For those who want to read an conspiracy theory that the
daughter was the real target can follow this link. I don't
think that there is any merit in the theory.
http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/the-daughter-of-former-russian-spy-sergei-skripal-was-the-real-target-of-the-nerve-agent-attack-relative-claims/news-story/5d7bb94389d882b6a41ee4afc5cc5d01
Truth is stranger than fiction!
And relatives are now pointing the finger at the prospective mother-in-law after it was disclosed she was a highly-ranked Russian security official.
The mum, who has not been identified, is said to have been furious that her son was marrying into the family of a man who betrayed 300 Russian agents.
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tiphat Class.
In reference to who may have done this (?)
99.99% it was false flag. Follow the money.
No, the use of a Cold War nerve agent was intended to be very public, and to send a message. If the Russians had wanted to kill Skripal quietly, they would have.
I don’t believe money plays any role here.
I feel that we all need to relax a little and take a GOOD hard look at what has happened, by look, I mean not directly at the situation, but with a very broad width..
First and foremost, trying to kill/harm anyone with a nerve agent is despicable and cowardly, and lets all hope that Skripal, his daughter, and the policeman all regain full good health in the near future.
It is fair to say that this whole fiasco has been handled badly by the UK Govt, they signed up to the OPCW but have failed to follow the guidelines, also they went very quickly to the press/media and blamed Russia without a shred of evidence, Wrong move absolutely..
The USSR was the only place that produced this class of agents, as far as is known. It was reportedly produced at НИИ Радиационной Химической и Биологической Защиты in the town of Shikhany, Saratov oblast.
However, it was stored in various FSU countries as well as Russia, countries including Ukraine, Czechoslovakia, Kazakhstan and Poland.
When Russia decided to "get rid" of its stocks of various chemical agents, all that they held (recorded quantities) were destroyed under US auspices under some agreement, I cannot say about other countries stocks, but would presume that they were also destroyed, but there is always the suspicion that there could have been some miss-calculations of recorded stocks.
One should also consider that the nerve agent is easy to copy and make, given the right lab conditions/materials, the formulae is well reported on wiki.
To go back to Skripal, he was exchanged as has been reported by others in a spy swop, but one has to ask, Was he still working as a Russian spy?
Why did he live near to one, if not the largest military training ground in the Uk, where there is also the largest contingent of the military stationed?
Why did he often visit the Russian consulate in London, and retain contacts with diplomats therefrom?
I'm not saying he was/was not, it could all have been harmless contact with former friends of course.
As someone has already pointed out, it would have been much easier and quicker to have shot him (probably certain death, whereas, now, he hopefully will survive).
Also, as someone else has also pointed out, was he, or was it his daughter who was the main target?
Then we need to look at TM and her handling of the situation, which also raises many questions.
Why didn't she stick to the rules about incidents such as this?
Why has Russia not received/been refused samples for their own tests to be carried out?
Why go so quickly against Russia in the press/media?
Is she trying to cover something up?
Is she trying to use this to unite her own MP's for future Brexit votes?
Is she hiding that she wishes the public to decide to stay in the EU for greater safety in numbers?
If Skripol was still working as a Russian spy, why would Russia remove him from the scene, or, did some other agency find out about it and do the dirty work blaming Russia of course.?
I am not saying that Russia is innocent/guilty, so don't get me wrong, I'm saying that before blaming anyone, a full "cooperated" investigation must first be completed, as per the OPCW rules, then, and only then should blame be attached.
There seems to be more questions than answers I think..
Where is the "Innocent till proven guilty", which is/was the pride of the British legal system..
Please discuss as you wish...
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Putting the conspiracy theories aside I just don't see what is exceptional about this case. Going traitor hunting in Britain every few years is just what Russia does.
May has asked Russia to prove its innocence, which no one is in any doubt is madness and I don't blame Putin for laughing at her for that and yet she has manage to convince France, Germany and the U.S. to pledge their support in contempt of this act.............
So what has May got up her sleeve?
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Gypsy wrote:
There seems to be more questions than answers I think..
Where is the "Innocent till proven guilty", which is/was the pride of the British legal system..
Please discuss as you wish...
In fact Gypsy’s post was very thorough, the most I believe. tiphat
The rush to judgement is as if the West is building a case for war and IMO most foolishly.
I don’t personally care if a traitor got whacked (if in fact that turns out to be factual).
Millions of lives can be lost thru yellow journalism and bold faced lies; propaganda. To be blunt Great Britain was very guilty of yellow journalism about 100 years ago just prior to World War One.
Shame.... :coffeeread:
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How do we know the exact substance and source? Russia hasn't had a chance to investigate it as the UK wouldn't cough up a sample.
Last I read the same stuff was also UK produced at Porta Down.
.... and Porta Down is near ... the little quiet town Salisbury where a Russian Traitor/Double Agent .... was living! ???
The Russian permanent representative to the UN, Vassily Nebenzia, insisted on “material proof” of Russia’s use of a nerve agent on British soil. The UK has a duty to supply this proof. Otherwise it is just a knee-jerk reaction and Theresa May is trying to look strong and decisive and try to divert attention from her Brexit failures.
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It's Porton Down chaps and yes, I've been there! When I was working a place that produced weapons-grade 'stuff' as a by-product. Never saw anything remotely interesting though a boffin working there on the train afterwards told me they had a perpetual-motion machines that was unharness-able and everytime one was started it destroyed itself, sounded like a load of old tosh to me. HE was probably a janitor or something dealing with pesky kids.
Back the programming wrt what Halo said, my better half and here Russian mates say the same, they do it daily obviously not neseccarily to kill people, but to put the fear of God into people in a look-what-we-can-do and imagine-what-we-could-do type thing. And then deny it to give it more creedence, and not in a clearwater revival type way.
WRT to UK not bumping people off, Dr David Kelly?
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And of course the Tory *snip*s have vote through a couple of new rules; the most heartwarming being the removal of free schools meals for even the poorest children.
And what did I read about fining people forced to live on the streets £100 for living on the streets? Mental...
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Frankly, Russia should go away and should shut up.
:chuckle:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/defence-secretary-gavin-williamson-tells-russia-shut-go-away-115926173.html
"The Americans had access not only to the technology, but had access to its development. In all likelihood, their NATO partners from Britain also had this access."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-frances-macron-supports-britain-over-poisoning-093201557.html
Here we now have the true culprit. It is the Americans behind it all. :chuckle:
He said Russia has "developed immunity to all kinds of fake accusations in all deadly sins coming from London."
Did they develop a new vaccine for this? :chuckle:
Russia appears to be following the same scenario as 1980 - Olympics boycott and now maybe the World Cup boycott? (:)
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Actually I've just realised it was Aldermaston I went to, not Porton Down, forget what I said, I was never here.....
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Actually I've just realised it was Aldermaston I went to, not Porton Down, forget what I said, I was never here.....
there ~ where ~ hear ~ near ~ here ~ were ~ bang-on-dear*
*a town in Wales**, so I am told
** According to a Dutch resident of Wales; the Welsh are the Irish who can not swim, (but they can sing)
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May has asked Russia to prove its innocence, which no one is in any doubt is madness and I don't blame Putin for laughing at her for that and yet she has manage to convince France, Germany and the U.S. to pledge their support in contempt of this act.............
Russia did not laugh at the UK, they said: Ok, under treaty X-Y-Z you must now send us the sample of poison used so we can explain it.
They (the UK) refused and therefore Russia has no choice and has to not-respond
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May has asked Russia to prove its innocence, which no one is in any doubt is madness and I don't blame Putin for laughing at her for that and yet she has manage to convince France, Germany and the U.S. to pledge their support in contempt of this act.............
Russia did not laugh at the UK, they said: Ok, under treaty X-Y-Z you must now send us the sample of poison used so we can explain it.
They (the UK) refused and therefore Russia has no choice and has to not-respond
We’re sending one of our new carriers in assuming we can get it started and stop it leaking.
And find some planes that can use it..
Rule Britannia!
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There is a delicious irony here... Certain folks on here (who don't even go to Russia and haven't a scoobie) are in agreement with Jeremy Corbyn !
Even a broken clock, is right twice day.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43433552 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43433552)
UK police have launched a murder investigation after the death of Russian businessman Nikolai Glushkov in south-west London.
Mr Glushkov was found dead at his home in the New Malden area of London on 13 March.
Police say Mr Glushkov, whose family has been informed, died from "compression to the neck".
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Its a good job it was done pretty close to Dorset cos in my parents sleepy village there are a few families who everyone "Knows they committed the crime" Its usually a burglary, car theft or something like that, but its a pretty common occurrence , even the local police "Know who did it" it has been like it for many years I guess just like in any other towns!
I guess the law has changed now? Im just wondering if next time I'm in the Uk all these people will be locked for five years and told , "When you can prove it was not you we will release you" :laugh: :laugh:
Probably its not even safe for me to go back! Most of the gossips in the village thought I sold drugs when I was younger :hidechair:
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The latest toy to hit the shelves...
https://www.facebook.com/ICYMIvideo/videos/171155773442872/?hc_ref=ARRmcDnqhTzn2FKE-zNue_5l1pO5-4UKJGswI5IhNEjRL4W6KGFl5rVdjybAHCnQwH0&pnref=story
:laugh:
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And now for some less biased news:
https://www.rt.com/news/421539-unforgivable-johnson-skripal-kremlin/
https://www.rt.com/uk/421526-skripal-expelled-diplomats-ambassador/
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And now for some Kremlin-sponsored news:
https://www.rt.com/news/421539-unforgivable-johnson-skripal-kremlin/
https://www.rt.com/uk/421526-skripal-expelled-diplomats-ambassador/
FTFY.
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And now for some Kremlin-sponsored news:
https://www.rt.com/news/421539-unforgivable-johnson-skripal-kremlin/
https://www.rt.com/uk/421526-skripal-expelled-diplomats-ambassador/
FTFY.
Strange, all I read are facts whom are not in dispute. If you call it kremlin-sponsored, then I would listen to the kremlin as it refreshingly deals with true facts and not unbased accusations as 'fact'.
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The foreign office has warned Brits in Russia or attending football to be vigilant and watch out for harassment :laugh:
Off out in 45 mins going to wear a flack jacket and helmet out and probably take the semi auto out JUST in case..
:Zzzzsleep:
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I guess we can kiss goodbye to easy visa access to Russia now for the next few decades....
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https://www.rt.com/news/421539-unforgivable-johnson-skripal-kremlin/
While I have not read an actual transcript of B. Johnson's comments, based on reports that I have heard and the above from RT that Boris has committed a diplomatic 'faux pas'.
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I guess we can kiss goodbye to easy visa access to Russia now for the next few decades....
I think it's about time all of us, Europeans.... married to a Russian National, to join forces and petition or better write a nice letter to the "New" Russian President of the RF to make an amendment or variation in the Visa Law, and offer us a FREE Multi entry Visa for 5 Years to Russia. Of course this amendment and visa facilitation... will exclude all divorced EU Husbands/wives........and Russophobes ....like Moby!
What do you say?
I am sure when Manny meets the Ambassador.... could talk him into positive action of such request! In my view such action will be a huge Propaganda tool for Russia's New President!
:)
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I guess we can kiss goodbye to easy visa access to Russia now for the next few decades....
I think it's about time all of us, Europeans.... married to a Russian National, to join forces and petition or better write a nice letter to the "New" Russian President of the RF to make an amendment or variation in the Visa Law, and offer us a FREE Multi entry Visa for 5 Years to Russia. Of course this amendment and visa facilitation... will exclude all divorced EU Husbands/wives........and Russophobes ....like Moby!
What do you say?
I am sure when Manny meets the Ambassador.... could talk him into positive action of such request! In my view such action will be a huge Propaganda tool for Russia's New President!
:)
I don't think Putin will be interested in that! As far as he's concerned "Those little shits stealing our women " comes to mind... :laugh:
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Funny how the supposed leftie biased BBC is currently in hot water for photoshopping Corby with an ushanka on this head and Red Square behind him in a news item about the current spy row..
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180317/99a17c989c79598f1d3c9e3111699253.jpg)
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I am sure when Manny meets the Ambassador.... could talk him into positive action of such request! In my view such action will be a huge Propaganda tool for Russia's New President!
:)
They have no appetite for this. I've been there already.
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[I think it's about time all of us, Europeans.... married to a Russian National, to join forces and petition or better write a nice letter to the "New" Russian President of the RF to make an amendment in the Visa Law, and offer us a FREE Multi entry Visa for 5 Years to Russia. Of course this amendment and visa facilitation... will exclude all divorced EU Husbands/wives........and Russophobes ....like Moby!
What do you say?
I am sure when Manny meets the Ambassador.... could talk him into positive action of such request! In my view such action will be a huge Propaganda tool for Russia's New President!
:)
I'm just off to play Hall and Oates [ out of touch ] and smile
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Funny how the supposed leftie biased BBC is currently in hot water for photoshopping Corby with an ushanka on this head and Red Square behind him in a news item about the current spy row..
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180317/99a17c989c79598f1d3c9e3111699253.jpg)
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It's nice to come home from abroad and see a good humor about Russia.
(https://littlehistoriesdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/d0b2-d0b8-d0bbd0b5d0bdd0b8d0bd-d0bdd0b0-d0b7d0b0d0bad0bbd0b0d0b4d0bad0b5-d0bfd0b0d0bcd18fd182d0bdd0b8d0bad0b0-c2abd0bed181d0b2d0bed0b1.jpg)
This is Lenin's cap. INTERNATIONAL!!! :) :thumbsup: tiphat
Boys, a bit bored without this site. I love clever humor. ;D :chuckle: :ROFL: :thumbsup: tiphat
:innocent: :-X ;D :-*
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I guess we can kiss goodbye to easy visa access to Russia now for the next few decades....
I think it's about time all of us, Europeans.... married to a Russian National, to join forces and petition or better write a nice letter to the "New" Russian President of the RF to make an amendment or variation in the Visa Law, and offer us a FREE Multi entry Visa for 5 Years to Russia. Of course this amendment and visa facilitation... will exclude all divorced EU Husbands/wives........and Russophobes ....like Moby!
What do you say?
I am sure when Manny meets the Ambassador.... could talk him into positive action of such request! In my view such action will be a huge Propaganda tool for Russia's New President!
:)
Workers of the world - unite! :king: :thumbsup: tiphat
(http://www.davno.ru/assets/images/posters/moor/big/poster-57.jpg)
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I am sure when Manny meets the Ambassador.... could talk him into positive action of such request! In my view such action will be a huge Propaganda tool for Russia's New President!
:)
They have no appetite for this. I've been there already.
I don't remember you posting anything about it but thanks for the reply.
Oh well ...after 20 + trips there.... I am tired going to London and applying for a visa, just to go to visit our home and see our family. Instead, I can use the money spent for a visa to go somewhere else for a nice sun.
tiphat
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Funny how the supposed leftie biased BBC is currently in hot water for photoshopping Corby with an ushanka on this head and Red Square behind him in a news item about the current spy row..
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180317/99a17c989c79598f1d3c9e3111699253.jpg)
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This bias isn’t new BTW, it’s just new to you lefties. Can’t believe this stuff just popped up on your radar. The BBC is rotten to the core.
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Funny how the supposed leftie biased BBC is currently in hot water for photoshopping Corby with an ushanka on this head and Red Square behind him in a news item about the current spy row..
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180317/99a17c989c79598f1d3c9e3111699253.jpg)
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This bias isn’t new BTW, it’s just new to you lefties. Can’t believe this stuff just popped up on your radar. The BBC is rotten to the core.
So you are saying the Beeb is biased but not to the left but the the right?
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Funny how the supposed leftie biased BBC is currently in hot water for photoshopping Corby with an ushanka on this head and Red Square behind him in a news item about the current spy row..
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180317/99a17c989c79598f1d3c9e3111699253.jpg)
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This bias isn’t new BTW, it’s just new to you lefties. Can’t believe this stuff just popped up on your radar. The BBC is rotten to the core.
So you are saying the Beeb is biased but not to the left but the the right?
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No. Where did you make that up?
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This is not about left or right. This is a false dichotomy designed to reduce the ability to think. The way it works, in part, is that when we are encouraged, programmed, to choose an allegiance we find it harder to consider viewpoints or narratives that do not fit with what 'our team' tells us.
When we step outside of this artificial paradigm we can more easily consider other viewpoints without allegiance prejudices and thus avoid cognitive dissonance which, itself, serves to reduce our ability to think.
Thus, although, on the whole, I tend to support the general policy direction of the British Conservative Party, I have no problem with seeing that what the Conservative led British government is doing in respect of the manufactured Skripal case is wrong and dishonest. I can see that Corbyn's position is valid and objectively better than the government's.
Interestingly, even though, as leader of the opposition, he will have access to much more information than the general public, his position remains unchanged. That tends to confirm my suspicion that this is a made up, propaganda campaign. The reasoning here is simple: if the narrative we have been told were true then it would be very hard for a rational person to NOT share the stated concerns of the government. The fact that Corbyn disagrees in the terms he does shows me that we are being lied to because Corbyn, no matter what else he might be, no matter his political views, is entirely rational and sensible.
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Its a shame John McDonnell doesn't share Corbyns views..... Could the Labour party be about to become as "Strong and Stable" as the tories?
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This is a guess and perhaps a bit off there is history though.
A while back perhaps 10 plus years ago. A plane carrying lots of precious Russian children of wealthy ogliarchs and miniarchs landed in southern German. All were dead upon impact.
The plane was hit by a Fed-Ex/UPS plane; the fault lay with the air traffic controller as I recall.
A year or two after the accident a parent or relative killed by knife the flight control controller in Germany.
It is possible as suggested up thread that the same motivation is at play in this 'incident'.
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AndrewF
I am sorry for the delay..... but congratulations are due for finding the new partner. Our best wishes from me and my wife.
BTW, she was reading RUA and come over to tell me about it!
At the same time, with ref to the latest episode between UK and Russia..... she reminded me that, a year or so ago, when she was getting annoyed with the doping scandals......that I have told her at the time:
"Wait and see what it will happen to Russia, when next year you will have the World Cup"
Well I was right with my guess.... after seen what happened in Sochi in the Olympics 2014.
;D
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Funny how the supposed leftie biased BBC is currently in hot water for photoshopping Corby with an ushanka on this head and Red Square behind him in a news item about the current spy row..
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180317/99a17c989c79598f1d3c9e3111699253.jpg)
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Fair do’s to the BBC, they evened things up on today’s news..
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180318/276497138789e7a8b11fc14511a64fd0.jpg)
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To be honest I don't see all the hassle over this subject, the guy committed treason.. When my Island is up and running anyone committing treason will kick the bucket at some time or other, they can run, hide do what ever they want. If anyone should give them sanctuary they should be aware that my agents will stop at nothing to bring justice for my Mother island..
:thumbsup:
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So there was no nerve agent then. From the Times.
(https://preview.ibb.co/dZ8szc/times.jpg)
Time for May and Johnson to resign.
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Manny, this was a 'letter to the editor' so, while interesting, I am uncertain as to the provenance, or authority, of the missive. I do know that a person of that name is a consultant at the hospital in question and I assume that the editorial team will have, given the sensitivity of the topic, made at least rudimentary checks on the ID of the letter writer.
My perspective is that this IS a hoax, at least in terms of the narratives offered. It is noticeable how the narrative is altered as various facets of the story are debunked but we still have no idea what the real story is. The changing narrative and the way that older, imperfect versions are memory-holed, much as with the whole Russian 'interference' meme over in the colonies.
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So there was no nerve agent then. From the Times.
(https://preview.ibb.co/dZ8szc/times.jpg)
Time for May and Johnson to resign.
I'm no expert but I believe nerve agents contaminate by contact with the skin. I remember in the USMC we would wear full body chemical suits to be completely protected from a nerve agent.
That said, it doesn't make much sense to me that the Russians would want to take out some guy 10 years removed in a foreign country no less and make it so plausibly traceable to them.
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So there was no nerve agent then. From the Times.
(https://preview.ibb.co/dZ8szc/times.jpg)
Time for May and Johnson to resign.
But but but,
They already stated it was in the backpack of the woman and probably put there when they were still in Moscow.
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I'm no expert but I believe nerve agents contaminate by contact with the skin. I remember in the USMC we would wear full body chemical suits to be completely protected from a nerve agent.
That said, it doesn't make much sense to me that the Russians would want to take out some guy 10 years removed in a foreign country no less and make it so plausibly traceable to them.
Most known nerve agents contaminate by skin contact, however, they can contaminate clothing, meaning that once the clothing is touched by the hands or suchlike, contamination occurs, which is why you were probably taught in the USMC that full De-contamination must take place BEFORE removal of the protective suits, mask, gloves etc.
100% agree with your second paragraph.. (especially if it proves to be correct that he was still working for the RU spy services in some capacity)
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I’m sure Putin is behind this, he’s ex-KGB not an ex-geography teacher.
These things are done as threats to others not to remove them from the fray.
Highly visible slow death certainly Litvinenko and probably these two. Much more effective in dissuading a potential foe from upping the ante.
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I’m sure Putin is behind this, he’s ex-KGB not an ex-geography teacher.
These things are done as threats to others not to remove them from the fray.
Highly visible slow death certainly Litvinenko and probably these two. Much more effective in dissuading a potential foe from upping the ante.
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When I read stuff like this, I seriously question where I'm at? The BBC & Guardian Facebook feeds are littered with what I can only describe as, a generation of brain washed zombies, who think Putin is the devil, the only true danger to humanity and the Russian people are a suppressed, brain dead society who require saving.
I'm fairly certain I'm on the right side of this one but I do worry slightly, that I've evolved into a racist, sexist, right wing extremist who only understands common sense.
Putin isn't an angel but its my opinion that there are individuals and governments far more dangerous, who threaten world stability on a grander scale. Sadly most of them are elected under our watch.
There's too many unanswered questions, hasty decisions, accusations and illogical steps for this simply to be Putin attempting to murder a spy on British soil with chemical weapons. There's far more to this, I'm sure.
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But but but,
They already stated it was in the backpack of the woman and probably put there when they were still in Moscow.
So far we have been told the following:
1) The victims (if they exist) were given the 'nerve agent' in the park, on the park bench.
2) The victims (if they exist) were given the 'nerve agent' in a restaurant.
3) The victims (if they exist) were given the 'nerve agent' in a suitcase carried from Moscow.
4) The victims (if they exist) were given the 'nerve agent' in Skripal's home.
5) The victims (if they exist) were given the 'nerve agent' in the BMW 320 belonging to Skripal.
That tells us a lot. Just as with the Russiagate farrago.
Just one lie is enough to discredit the whole story. One lie is all it takes.
We do not know if anyone has been attacked. If there has been an attack, it might be that the Russian state or people from Russia are involved but we do not know. All we do know is that we are being lied to and that rather serves to discredit any claims about Russian involvement.
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We haven't been "told" anything about how the poisoning occurred. All of this is speculation published to sell newspapers. Unless there is a public inquiry or a declaration in the House of Commons, the general population will only know what occurred based on speculation, or what the intelligence community wants the public to know. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not thinking.
Russia is turning into an autocratic state, ruled by the former rulers of the USSR, who now also have hundreds of billions of dollars at their personal disposals with which to manipulate the West. The difference between then (under communism) and now (autocratic hyper nationalism) is that now, having sent their children to the West to be educated, the Russian elite (the former commie nomenklatura) have figured out the West's weaknesses to a degree Bolsheviks, who viewed everything through the prism of Marxism-Leninism, failed to see or understand.
The danger is not in invasion. It is in manipulating weak minded Westerners into viewing almost fascist ideologies as normal. It is about viewing the rule of law as a weakness. It is about sowing political instability and breaking social cohesion. The Russians don't even attempt to hide this, referring to establishment, in Lavrov's words, of a "post Western world order", which in Russia's perspective, is based on might making right.
I am not suggesting that the neoliberal societies that exist, particularly within the EU, are the ideal, or that many of the weaknesses exploited are not the result of Western elites' policies, or even that the censorship slowly creeping across Germany, France, and, to a lesser extent, the UK, are not pernicious. I don't even question the need for a more balanced world order not dominated by the West. However, most of you are thinking with your d##ks and can't see what is obvious to anyone who does actually think with his/her brain.
I don't blame Russia for any of their actions. It is in the Russian state's strategic interests to influence both public opinion and, therefore, governments around the world. But, to deny this attempt at influence is occurring, or that it has even achieved some success, as many here do, suggests Lenin's "useful idiots" still exist, and many of them are posting here.
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I’m sure Putin is behind this, he’s ex-KGB not an ex-geography teacher.
These things are done as threats to others not to remove them from the fray.
Highly visible slow death certainly Litvinenko and probably these two. Much more effective in dissuading a potential foe from upping the ante.
.
When I read stuff like this, I seriously question where I'm at? The BBC & Guardian Facebook feeds are littered with what I can only describe as, a generation of brain washed zombies, who think Putin is the devil, the only true danger to humanity and the Russian people are a suppressed, brain dead society who require saving.
I'm fairly certain I'm on the right side of this one but I do worry slightly, that I've evolved into a racist, sexist, right wing extremist who only understands common sense.
Putin isn't an angel but its my opinion that there are individuals and governments far more dangerous, who threaten world stability on a grander scale. Sadly most of them are elected under our watch.
There's too many unanswered questions, hasty decisions, accusations and illogical steps for this simply to be Putin attempting to murder a spy on British soil with chemical weapons. There's far more to this, I'm sure.
Don’t get me wrong Putin has been good for Russia on the whole just I don’t think he’s above using his KGB past and cronies to make sure anyone not singing from his hymn sheet is let’s say marginalised.
There was this new kid on the drug supply block some years back, in Dubs trying to muscle in. Kill him and he’d be just another dead criminal, nail him to a table and let him live hardly able to walk again and it sends out a different message. The fear of death is worse the the actual death and a much better way of deterring others.
I think this is what Putin is doing. I don’t think he cares if people reckon he’s the guilty party, he’s Raskolnikov...
I am fully prepared to be wrong on this mind!
.
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We haven't been "told" anything about how the poisoning occurred. All of this is speculation published to sell newspapers. Unless there is a public inquiry or a declaration in the House of Commons, the general population will only know what occurred based on speculation, or what the intelligence community wants the public to know. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not thinking.
Russia is turning into an autocratic state, ruled by the former rulers of the USSR, who now also have hundreds of billions of dollars at their personal disposals with which to manipulate the West. The difference between then (under communism) and now (autocratic hyper nationalism) is that now, having sent their children to the West to be educated, the Russian elite (the former commie nomenklatura) have figured out the West's weaknesses to a degree Bolsheviks, who viewed everything through the prism of Marxism-Leninism, failed to see or understand.
The danger is not in invasion. It is in manipulating weak minded Westerners into viewing almost fascist ideologies as normal. It is about viewing the rule of law as a weakness. It is about sowing political instability and breaking social cohesion. The Russians don't even attempt to hide this, referring to establishment, in Lavrov's words, of a "post Western world order", which in Russia's perspective, is based on might making right.
I am not suggesting that the neoliberal societies that exist, particularly within the EU, are the ideal, or that many of the weaknesses exploited are not the result of Western elites' policies, or even that the censorship slowly creeping across Germany, France, and, to a lesser extent, the UK, are not pernicious. I don't even question the need for a more balanced world order not dominated by the West. However, most of you are thinking with your d##ks and can't see what is obvious to anyone who does actually think with his/her brain.
I don't blame Russia for any of their actions. It is in the Russian state's strategic interests to influence both public opinion and, therefore, governments around the world. But, to deny this attempt at influence is occurring, or that it has even achieved some success, as many here do, suggests Lenin's "useful idiots" still exist, and many of them are posting here.
:thumbsup:
I suspect that the above will make some uncomfortable with this viewpoint. But the actual reality is quite close to what is being described above.
Certainly the 'West' presently is indifferent, indolent and simply lazy. There was a chance to help Russia (almost a generation ago) I think the Russian's correctly see more of an attempt to take material advantage of the country. This is coming back to bite the West.
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I’m sure Putin is behind this, he’s ex-KGB not an ex-geography teacher.
These things are done as threats to others not to remove them from the fray.
Highly visible slow death certainly Litvinenko and probably these two. Much more effective in dissuading a potential foe from upping the ante.
.
When I read stuff like this, I seriously question where I'm at? The BBC & Guardian Facebook feeds are littered with what I can only describe as, a generation of brain washed zombies, who think Putin is the devil, the only true danger to humanity and the Russian people are a suppressed, brain dead society who require saving.
I'm fairly certain I'm on the right side of this one but I do worry slightly, that I've evolved into a racist, sexist, right wing extremist who only understands common sense.
Putin isn't an angel but its my opinion that there are individuals and governments far more dangerous, who threaten world stability on a grander scale. Sadly most of them are elected under our watch.
There's too many unanswered questions, hasty decisions, accusations and illogical steps for this simply to be Putin attempting to murder a spy on British soil with chemical weapons. There's far more to this, I'm sure.
Don’t get me wrong Putin has been good for Russia on the whole just I don’t think he’s above using his KGB past and cronies to make sure anyone not singing from his hymn sheet is let’s say marginalised.
There was this new kid on the drug supply block some years back, in Dubs trying to muscle in. Kill him and he’d be just another dead criminal, nail him to a table and let him live hardly able to walk again and it sends out a different message. The fear of death is worse the the actual death and a much better way of deterring others.
I think this is what Putin is doing. I don’t think he cares if people reckon he’s the guilty party, he’s Raskolnikov...
I am fully prepared to be wrong on this mind!
You certainly could be right Ste and if his actions caused harm to 200 Russian agents there would be a good reason to send such a message. Or a family member of one of those likely harmed agents.
The flip side is the usual sanctimonious behavior in the West. Hillary Clinton didn’t murder Vince Foster in cold blood just gossip. Seth Rich was not just recently murdered on orders from her and Podesta—gossip.
The CIA did not cause a reporter to crash in a car and blow up in LA just gossip.
Hastings died in a single-car accident in Los Angeles in 2013; the circumstances of which left many commentators skeptical. At the time of his death, Hastings was working on an article covering Obama-era CIA director John Brennan.
https://m.benzinga.com/article/9141527
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We do not know if anyone has been attacked. If there has been an attack, it might be that the Russian state or people from Russia are involved but we do not know. All we do know is that we are being lied to and that rather serves to discredit any claims about Russian involvement.
What we DO know is that nerve agents aren't available at the corner chemist shops (drug store for Americans). The possible source of such agents is a rather limited list.
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However, most of you are thinking with your d##ks and can't see what is obvious to anyone who does actually think with his/her brain.
This is not true in my case. My "little guy" has problems "getting up", so the brain further above has to compensate for that. :ROFL: (:) :-[ :pointlaugh:
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We haven't been "told" anything about how the poisoning occurred. All of this is speculation published to sell newspapers. Unless there is a public inquiry or a declaration in the House of Commons, the general population will only know what occurred based on speculation, or what the intelligence community wants the public to know. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not thinking.
Russia is turning into an autocratic state, ruled by the former rulers of the USSR, who now also have hundreds of billions of dollars at their personal disposals with which to manipulate the West. The difference between then (under communism) and now (autocratic hyper nationalism) is that now, having sent their children to the West to be educated, the Russian elite (the former commie nomenklatura) have figured out the West's weaknesses to a degree Bolsheviks, who viewed everything through the prism of Marxism-Leninism, failed to see or understand.
The danger is not in invasion. It is in manipulating weak minded Westerners into viewing almost fascist ideologies as normal. It is about viewing the rule of law as a weakness. It is about sowing political instability and breaking social cohesion. The Russians don't even attempt to hide this, referring to establishment, in Lavrov's words, of a "post Western world order", which in Russia's perspective, is based on might making right.
I am not suggesting that the neoliberal societies that exist, particularly within the EU, are the ideal, or that many of the weaknesses exploited are not the result of Western elites' policies, or even that the censorship slowly creeping across Germany, France, and, to a lesser extent, the UK, are not pernicious. I don't even question the need for a more balanced world order not dominated by the West. However, most of you are thinking with your d##ks and can't see what is obvious to anyone who does actually think with his/her brain.
I don't blame Russia for any of their actions. It is in the Russian state's strategic interests to influence both public opinion and, therefore, governments around the world. But, to deny this attempt at influence is occurring, or that it has even achieved some success, as many here do, suggests Lenin's "useful idiots" still exist, and many of them are posting here.
I agree with some of this, particularly your third paragraph. Russia is being pushed away from the west and they are in survival mode. Putin is too clever to simply start a war, although the sheep are led to believe otherwise, so why not take advantage of our weakness? Currently, the flaws in western society is our constant devision in almost every area. Politically, racially, religiously, the gender divide......
We're almost imploding and its our weakness to be exploited.
However, I think your suggestion that most of us are "thinking with our dicks and can't see the obvious, to anyone who does actually think with his brain", is both ridiculous and derogatory in the broadest sense.
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We do not know if anyone has been attacked. If there has been an attack, it might be that the Russian state or people from Russia are involved but we do not know. All we do know is that we are being lied to and that rather serves to discredit any claims about Russian involvement.
What we DO know is that nerve agents aren't available at the corner chemist shops (drug store for Americans). The possible source of such agents is a rather limited list.
At this point we do not even know that any person was attacked.
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However, I think your suggestion that most of us are "thinking with our dicks and can't see the obvious, to anyone who does actually think with his brain", is both ridiculous and derogatory in the broadest sense.
This is what I observe. It is so obvious as to be humourous.
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Has anybody seen any photos of the victims?
How is their health?
The daughter Yulia is a Russian National but nobody from the Embassy is allowed to visit her.....
The case of this attack is Criminal investigation but the Politicians have taken over.....and running ahead very fast ...... without concrete evidence.
I wonder why?
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Has anybody seen any photos of the victims?
How is their health?
The daughter Yulia is a Russian National but nobody from the Embassy is allowed to visit her.....
The case of this attack is Criminal investigation but the Politicians have taken over.....and running ahead very fast ...... without concrete evidence.
I wonder why?
To the outside observer, there are many odd things about this event.
As Andrew/Halo have noted there is not a full picture of the reality. BUT looking at how it is playing out Putin is doing a admirable job, both on the home and international front.
I am beginning to believe more that this is event is more about personal revenge and the action of a rouge 'agent' who has played in an accidental and masterful way into the Russians chess board.
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Has anybody seen any photos of the victims?
How is their health?
The daughter Yulia is a Russian National but nobody from the Embassy is allowed to visit her.....
The case of this attack is Criminal investigation but the Politicians have taken over.....and running ahead very fast ...... without concrete evidence.
I wonder why?
Now now Wiz - stop thinking with your dick! :-\
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Who would visit them? Everyone in their family, other than the two of them, is dead. Should someone from the Russian embassy be given access to Yulia to finish the job? Even if one believes the Russians are innocent, what would be gained by sending someone to visit a comatose individual?
The child of a traitor to the motherland was dating a Russian security officer whose mother is a high ranking security official, and you deep thinkers find this completely normal, and, apparently, not suspicious.
Give your heads (which one, you decide) a shake.
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Has anybody seen any photos of the victims?
How is their health?
The daughter Yulia is a Russian National but nobody from the Embassy is allowed to visit her.....
The case of this attack is Criminal investigation but the Politicians have taken over.....and running ahead very fast ...... without concrete evidence.
I wonder why?
Ah, Wiz is a also a member of the andrewfi overthinking mob
Do you both seriously believe this is all made up ( including the Policeman )
Come down to Salisbury and suggest it - the folks will ( rightly ) think you are as mad as a box of frogs
If you suspect a third state has ordered the use of a nerve agent on your territory - would YOU let officials near those attacked ?
A theory doing the rounds is that daughter may have brought one part of the binary ingredients necessary and when combined - poison.
I have NO idea of the veracity of such a story
Their health is still critical, but stable - it's freely available in the news
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Has she paid the IHS fee for access to NHS?!
.
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Who would visit them? Everyone in their family, other than the two of them, is dead. Should someone from the Russian embassy be given access to Yulia to finish the job? Even if one believes the Russians are innocent, what would be gained by sending someone to visit a comatose individual?
Lets turn this the other way around: If you believe like Russia, that England is the state-actor that poisoned them, wouldn't you want your ambassy personall to visit them and hear from their own mouths if they are ok, and if they are being cared of allright.
In this case, it is completely logical to me that the Ru-embassy wants to visit their RU-nationals to advise them of their rights. In fact, if I got poisoned abroad, i'd welcome Dutch embassy workers to help me in any way they can and I need.
The child of a traitor to the motherland was dating a Russian security officer whose mother is a high ranking security official, and you deep thinkers find this completely normal, and, apparently, not suspicious.
Give your heads (which one, you decide) a shake.
Can you control whom you fall in love with? I never could.
Also: Yulia skripal worked in the US-embassy in moscow at the time of the fling. Strange place to meet Russian spies, no? Unless this whole story is bogus since I only read it with English-newspapers as the source.
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How are embassy personnel going to interview a comatose woman? Are all hospital personnel treating her in on this as well?
It doesn’t matter where Yulia worked. Planting a spy within a “traitor” family is a standard KGB tactic going back to the 1930’s, now adopted by the FSB. Dismissing it is a sign of naivety, stupidity, or malevolence.
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Just having a read, odd Skripal’s wife died young, his son died aged 43 mysteriously in Piter, and his older brother also died about two years ago.
Could be just coincidence but you do have to wonder...
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How are embassy personnel going to interview a comatose woman? Are all hospital personnel treating her in on this as well?
How do you know they are comatose if you are denied access? And did you talk to the hospital doctors? Do they say the same as the official story? They simply don't know because they have been denied access. So all is rumours right now.
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Has anybody seen any photos of the victims?
How is their health?
The daughter Yulia is a Russian National but nobody from the Embassy is allowed to visit her.....
The case of this attack is Criminal investigation but the Politicians have taken over.....and running ahead very fast ...... without concrete evidence.
I wonder why?
Now now Wiz - stop thinking with your dick! :-\
After posting my previous post that you quote....I went to an appointment with a specialist Doctor who examined my dick .. Error I meant my Brains.... and prostate and he gave me the all clear from Cancer. I am sure you realise that any clouds in my brain has cleared and I can think much better, like a happy bunny in the sun.
Now, it is pretty obvious my brains are working fine........but on my return I read all other posts and I am disappointed that many posters don't use logic to analyse the situation.
An incident took place in Salisbury and 3 people were poisoned by a nasty nerve agent.
As soon as it came to notice of the police the case become a criminal investigation.
So far all we know is what the politicians have told us.
Mrs TM the PM stated that the poisoning was "Highly likely" a criminal act perpetrated by the RUssian Government in British soil. At the same time she gave the Russian Government 48 hrs to admit their criminal action. After that she makes the decision to expel 23 diplomats without irrefutable evidence. Now who in the world would admit guildy with not concrete evidence.?
naturaly the Russians refer the Brits to follow the threat about Chemical weapon...... via the COPW inter. organisation....... but it has taken 10 days before the Brits deliver samples to COPW with supplying sample to the Russian......
and so on and on.
The only think is happening is continuation of propaganda against russia by the Mass western media.........
The politicians do not co-operate and Mrs TM wants to be another Mrs T..... which she is not.
Meanwhile her Government survives on a sting.......while important decisions are made about Brexit. It is very noticeable that not many EU countries support her.........
Well this story is not only clear but will run for a long time without any clear evidence.
Of course now it's Corbyns problem because he asked legitimate questions.
In my view the whole story is another way to avoid scrutiny about the failures of TM's government.
I am bored with al the bullshite.........
MarkJ
There was a statement that an antidote was given to them from the Porton Down lab.... and if that is true..... who can tell me that these people are not sitting in a room having a laugh with all the bull?
Let's not forget the statemnt by the Russian ambassador in the UN, that after the collapse of the USSR many of those people involved in the production of chemical weaponts.... have been taken to the west together with their notes,,,,,,etc.
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How are embassy personnel going to interview a comatose woman? Are all hospital personnel treating her in on this as well?
It doesn’t matter where Yulia worked. Planting a spy within a “traitor” family is a standard KGB tactic going back to the 1930’s, now adopted by the FSB. Dismissing it is a sign of naivety, stupidity, or malevolence.
Irrespective of your self appointed knowledge on the subject, you have no more information than anyone else here. So without thinking with our dicks, lets look for rational possibilities.
You have one take on it and have made that known. Another possibility is that its a UK government job and only they have access to the suspected victims and wont share any intelligence or further info other than it was highly likely Russia.
The head victims may well be unconscious in intensive care but working with your theory, what if the UK are purposely isolating the apparent victims. What if they finish them off if they make a recovery and why haven't Russia been involved at any level?
All a bit secret squirrel.
-
Has anybody seen any photos of the victims?
How is their health?
The daughter Yulia is a Russian National but nobody from the Embassy is allowed to visit her.....
The case of this attack is Criminal investigation but the Politicians have taken over.....and running ahead very fast ...... without concrete evidence.
I wonder why?
Now now Wiz - stop thinking with your dick! :-\
After posting my previous post that you quote....I went to an appointment with a specialist Doctor who examined my dick .. Error I meant my Brains.... and prostate and he gave me the all clear from Cancer. I am sure you realise that any clouds in my brain has cleared and I can think much better, like a happy bunny in the sun.
Now, it is pretty obvious my brains are working fine........but on my return I read all other posts and I am disappointed that many posters don't use logic to analyse the situation.
An incident took place in Salisbury and 3 people were poisoned by a nasty nerve agent.
As soon as it came to notice of the police the case become a criminal investigation.
So far all we know is what the politicians have told us.
Mrs TM the PM stated that the poisoning was "Highly likely" a criminal act perpetrated by the RUssian Government in British soil. At the same time she gave the Russian Government 48 hrs to admit their criminal action. After that she makes the decision to expel 23 diplomats without irrefutable evidence. Now who in the world would admit guildy with not concrete evidence.?
naturaly the Russians refer the Brits to follow the threat about Chemical weapon...... via the COPW inter. organisation....... but it has taken 10 days before the Brits deliver samples to COPW with supplying sample to the Russian......
and so on and on.
The only think is happening is continuation of propaganda against russia by the Mass western media.........
The politicians do not co-operate and Mrs TM wants to be another Mrs T..... which she is not.
Meanwhile her Government survives on a sting.......while important decisions are made about Brexit. It is very noticeable that not many EU countries support her.........
Well this story is not only clear but will run for a long time without any clear evidence.
Of course now it's Corbyns problem because he asked legitimate questions.
In my view the whole story is another way to avoid scrutiny about the failures of TM's government.
I am bored with al the bullshite.........
MarkJ
There was a statement that an antidote was given to them from the Porton Down lab.... and if that is true..... who can tell me that these people are not sitting in a room having a laugh with all the bull?
Let's not forget the statemnt by the Russian ambassador in the UN, that after the collapse of the USSR many of those people involved in the production of chemical weaponts.... have been taken to the west together with their notes,,,,,,etc.
Glad to hear that both your dick and your mind are ok.
Good post btw. Some people wont like it and have already made their mind up without the required evidence and ignoring the strange set of circumstances around the "attack".
I remain open minded but refuse to be a sheep because they told me to think stuff.
:thumbsup:
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How are embassy personnel going to interview a comatose woman? Are all hospital personnel treating her in on this as well?
It doesn’t matter where Yulia worked. Planting a spy within a “traitor” family is a standard KGB tactic going back to the 1930’s, now adopted by the FSB. Dismissing it is a sign of naivety, stupidity, or malevolence.
Irrespective of your self appointed knowledge on the subject, you have no more information than anyone else here. So without thinking with our dicks, lets look for rational possibilities.
You have one take on it and have made that known. Another possibility is that its a UK government job and only they have access to the suspected victims and wont share any intelligence or further info other than it was highly likely Russia.
The head victims may well be unconscious in intensive care but working with your theory, what if the UK are purposely isolating the apparent victims. What if they finish them off if they make a recovery and why haven't Russia been involved at any level?
All a bit secret squirrel.
My knowledge is not "self appointed". I happen to know a bit about the history of the region, as well as Russian culture.
Once a person leaves the motherland, he/she is no longer considered Russian. He/she is no longer a part of "us", he/she is not suffering with "us". That person is a traitor. I assumed this would change, with the millions of Russians in the diaspora, but it hasn't, as recent television programmes have proven to me, the latest, the most popular talk show in Russia, hosted by Vladimir Solovyev.
If you look at the history of Soviet and Soviet bloc defectors, you will note that they have an extremely high preponderance of dying unusually - a poisoned pellet in the leg (on a street in London), a sudden heart attack in a healthy man who was just examined by his physician (in Paris), by cyanide gas (Munich). Then of course, there is the most infamous Soviet "defector", not a spy, but a politician, who died with an ice axe in his head (Coyoacan).
Please point, in its history, to British agents/double agents being killed with a poisoned pellet on a Moscow street, or by cyanide, or polonium, or even an axe.
Sergei Skripal is a British citizen. The Russians have no right to any information about him. Yulia is a Russian citizen. The Russians are not entitled to see her, though they are entitled to information about her health.
Given it is likely the Russians tried to murder these individuals, why would the British government hand them over when they are unable to speak for themselves?
Again, useful idiots, apparently, with no knowledge of history.
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Mrs TM the PM stated that the poisoning was "Highly likely" a criminal act perpetrated by the RUssian Government in British soil. At the same time she gave the Russian Government 48 hrs to admit their criminal action. After that she makes the decision to expel 23 diplomats without irrefutable evidence. Now who in the world would admit guildy with not concrete evidence.?
I was driving and the only thing better to Bach on the radio is a British politician speaking in the House. As I recall T. May gave only 24 hours for a response to there questions regarding this 'matter'.
24 or even 48 hours is Han Solo hyper drive as far as diplomatic matters are concerned. It does appear the British are moving at the speed of sound, but this may infact be based on a prior event where Theresa was involved, that dragged on way to o o o . long. But in the end all the evidence than pointed to Russian involvement and direction.
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Mrs TM the PM stated that the poisoning was "Highly likely" a criminal act perpetrated by the RUssian Government in British soil. At the same time she gave the Russian Government 48 hrs to admit their criminal action. After that she makes the decision to expel 23 diplomats without irrefutable evidence. Now who in the world would admit guildy with not concrete evidence.?
I was driving and the only thing better to Bach on the radio is a British politician speaking in the House. As I recall T. May gave only 24 hours for a response to there questions regarding this 'matter'.
24 or even 48 hours is Han Solo hyper drive as far as diplomatic matters are concerned. It does appear the British are moving at the speed of sound, but this may infact be based on a prior event where Theresa was involved, that dragged on way to o o o . long. But in the end all the evidence than pointed to Russian involvement and direction.
The 'process' was designed such that the Russian government could not possibly reply in a manner that the British government could say was satisfactory. Of course, the British side wanted that the Russians did not answer in the terms set by them; that's why they did it.
The Russian side has tried to get the British government to play by the rules but they are still refusing to do so. At this point, the government is making accusations that the investigators can not support. The police have said as much.
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ot answer in the terms set by them; that's why they did it.
The Russian side has tried to get the British government to play by the rules but they are still refusing to do so. At this point, the government is making accusations that the investigators can not support. The police have said as much.
The Kremlin trying to get Britain to 'play by the rules ' - you can actually write that and wonder why you wouldn't be mocked ?
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Mrs TM the PM stated that the poisoning was "Highly likely" a criminal act perpetrated by the RUssian Government in British soil. At the same time she gave the Russian Government 48 hrs to admit their criminal action. After that she makes the decision to expel 23 diplomats without irrefutable evidence. Now who in the world would admit guildy with not concrete evidence.?
I was driving and the only thing better to Bach on the radio is a British politician speaking in the House. As I recall T. May gave only 24 hours for a response to there questions regarding this 'matter'.
24 or even 48 hours is Han Solo hyper drive as far as diplomatic matters are concerned. It does appear the British are moving at the speed of sound, but this may infact be based on a prior event where Theresa was involved, that dragged on way to o o o . long. But in the end all the evidence than pointed to Russian involvement and direction.
The 'process' was designed such that the Russian government could not possibly reply in a manner that the British government could say was satisfactory. Of course, the British side wanted that the Russians did not answer in the terms set by them; that's why they did it.
The Russian side has tried to get the British government to play by the rules but they are still refusing to do so. At this point, the government is making accusations that the investigators can not support. The police have said as much.
Here is the Latest "bullshit" from Boris Johnson
The British Foreign Minister, Born in USA with Turkish inheritance and clown of British Politics.
President Putin is using the World Cup in Russia as a "PR exercise" akin to how Hitler used the 1936 Olympics, the foreign secretary has agreed.
Boris Johnson said Labour MP Ian Austin was "completely right" to say the Russian president wanted to "gloss over [his] brutal corrupt regime".
Mr Johnson said that he would have an "urgent conversation" with Russia about the safety of fans at the tournament.
A Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman said he was "poisoned with hatred".
A Downing Street spokesman confirmed Mr Johnson was speaking on behalf of the government and that they were working closely with police on plans for the World Cup.
The foreign secretary said it was of "crucial importance" in light of 23 British diplomats being expelled from Russia - including the individual responsible for football fans.
The Foreign Office will produce detailed travel advice closer to the time.
Read More at the Bastion of truth....... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43487948
Mean while you may read this too:
Russian spy: What we know so far
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43315636
I am sure those members who can read, think and articulate their views.... will realise what is the truth and what the incompetent and right wing British Government it is actually doing!
The Cold war is not over...... and may I remind you what happen during the Moscow Olympics in 1980.
Why Thatcher’s attempt to boycott the 1980 Moscow Olympics failed
"Soft power, involving public relations and propaganda, can be a useful means of furthering policy. The notion of soft power, a concept developed by political scientists, such as Joseph S. Nye Jr, from the 1990s, can usefully be applied to the past. For example, it offered a viable means of fighting the Cold War. The absence of direct military conflict in the nuclear era meant that this war became an ideological, economic and cultural battle between 'East' and 'West'. Meanwhile, boycotts of sporting events became a particular form of soft power in the 1970s."
Read the full article: http://www.historyandpolicy.org/opinion-articles/articles/why-thatchers-attempt-to-boycott-the-1980-moscow-olympics-failed
tiphat
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How are embassy personnel going to interview a comatose woman? Are all hospital personnel treating her in on this as well?
It doesn’t matter where Yulia worked. Planting a spy within a “traitor” family is a standard KGB tactic going back to the 1930’s, now adopted by the FSB. Dismissing it is a sign of naivety, stupidity, or malevolence.
Irrespective of your self appointed knowledge on the subject, you have no more information than anyone else here. So without thinking with our dicks, lets look for rational possibilities.
You have one take on it and have made that known. Another possibility is that its a UK government job and only they have access to the suspected victims and wont share any intelligence or further info other than it was highly likely Russia.
The head victims may well be unconscious in intensive care but working with your theory, what if the UK are purposely isolating the apparent victims. What if they finish them off if they make a recovery and why haven't Russia been involved at any level?
All a bit secret squirrel.
My knowledge is not "self appointed". I happen to know a bit about the history of the region, as well as Russian culture.
Once a person leaves the motherland, he/she is no longer considered Russian. He/she is no longer a part of "us", he/she is not suffering with "us". That person is a traitor. I assumed this would change, with the millions of Russians in the diaspora, but it hasn't, as recent television programmes have proven to me, the latest, the most popular talk show in Russia, hosted by Vladimir Solovyev.
If you look at the history of Soviet and Soviet bloc defectors, you will note that they have an extremely high preponderance of dying unusually - a poisoned pellet in the leg (on a street in London), a sudden heart attack in a healthy man who was just examined by his physician (in Paris), by cyanide gas (Munich). Then of course, there is the most infamous Soviet "defector", not a spy, but a politician, who died with an ice axe in his head (Coyoacan).
Please point, in its history, to British agents/double agents being killed with a poisoned pellet on a Moscow street, or by cyanide, or polonium, or even an axe.
Sergei Skripal is a British citizen. The Russians have no right to any information about him. Yulia is a Russian citizen. The Russians are not entitled to see her, though they are entitled to information about her health.
Given it is likely the Russians tried to murder these individuals, why would the British government hand them over when they are unable to speak for themselves?
Again, useful idiots, apparently, with no knowledge of history.
Halo
I am sorry but from your Avatar I don't know what is your Nationality, neither your sex too. Could you please clarify...... reason is that you claim to know a lot about Russian mentality, history etc.
May I suggest you to dare and say face to face to any Russian wife that has acquired British Nationality that she is a "Traitor"?.
Well I could tell you what my wife said when she read your comments..... but it's not printable.... and Manny will have to ban me...... but of course you can guess.
BTW Scripal Had Dual Nationality and he was a traitor... MI6 got the names of 300 Russian agents and took over his retirements expenses....... after he was exchanged.
As we know he went to prison for his treason.
With ref to the case of Litvnienko...... can you tell us what happened at the court and also why Mrs May has closed the file for 100 years?
:smokin:
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Once a person leaves the motherland, he/she is no longer considered Russian. He/she is no longer a part of "us", he/she is not suffering with "us". That person is a traitor....
Sergei Skripal is a British citizen. The Russians have no right to any information about him. Yulia is a Russian citizen. The Russians are not entitled to see her, though they are entitled to information about her health.....
Again, useful idiots, apparently, with no knowledge of history.....
I'm not sure I've read so much rubbish from you in all my life. Are you informing us all that our wives are now traitors and no longer considered Russian - because they live in the west? Are you telling me that our wives are put in the same category as spies now? Utterly ridiculous and embarrasingly out of touch.
Russia is accused of trying to kill Skripal. They have every right to get involved. British citizen or not, the blokes Russian. Sounds to me like you're more of a bitter spouse to a Ukrainian, than a genned up history bore. You do know we're talking about Russia here and not the 1920's Soviet Union?
And finally, another silly little bit of childish insult to wrap up your post. Your history knowledge clearly belongs in the attic because well read or not, you sound like a dinosaur with that tripe. Can you imagine standing up in court trying to build a case against Russia and rambling on about darts in legs and the like, from the communist era? You'd get laughed at.
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Wiz,
Halo is a woman of Ukraine background. She meet during the time that Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union and married a man from there in this period. In prior posts she has depicted this reality.
As a woman she has raised a number of children to be adults and is a practicing lawyer in Canada.
Unfortunately you have either limited research ~ memory abilities or perhaps you need a new doctor.
AvHdB
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Once a person leaves the motherland, he/she is no longer considered Russian. He/she is no longer a part of "us", he/she is not suffering with "us". That person is a traitor....
Sergei Skripal is a British citizen. The Russians have no right to any information about him. Yulia is a Russian citizen. The Russians are not entitled to see her, though they are entitled to information about her health.....
Again, useful idiots, apparently, with no knowledge of history.....
I'm not sure I've read so much rubbish from you in all my life. Are you informing us all that our wives are now traitors and no longer considered Russian - because they live in the west? Are you telling me that our wives are put in the same category as spies now? Utterly ridiculous and embarrasingly out of touch.
Russia is accused of trying to kill Skripal. They have every right to get involved. British citizen or not, the blokes Russian. Sounds to me like you're more of a bitter spouse to a Ukrainian, than a genned up history bore. You do know we're talking about Russia here and not the 1920's Soviet Union?
And finally, another silly little bit of childish insult to wrap up your post. Your history knowledge clearly belongs in the attic because well read or not, you sound like a dinosaur with that tripe.
WRONG! I would learn some manners when posting to a woman - you sound like an ill bred twat and rather stupid.
Oh wait you are in Scotland, I guess you have a get out of jail card.
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Halo,
Heads up.
Curious I just logged out and back in and indeed information to/on your avatar is missing. Both Wiz and Rosco have been present long enough to know better though.
Confederate is a 'newer' member but was present in another guise before. Otherwise it is the regular suspects.
Av
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Wiz,
Halo is a woman of Ukraine background. She meet during the time that Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union and married a man from there in this period. In prior posts she has depicted this reality.
As a woman she has raised a number of children to be adults and is a practicing lawyer in Canada.
Unfortunately you have either limited research ~ memory abilities or perhaps you need a new doctor.
AvHdB
AvHdB
I hope that you have noticed, there is a large difference between you and me.......
You are permanently connected on RUA and pick up all posts, as soon they appear, as part of your duties... where myself, I am busy with other very banal things. Like taking care of my health, my family, garden and few other interests. Meanwhile when I visit this board, I am selective to the subjects that I post and I don't get to know all other posters, as you do. I may appear to be connected all the time and that is because I am not loging off , because I am lazy.
I have a vague suspicion that I have met the lady in question in another board and we had pleasant exchanges. I think she was born in western Ukraine and that explain most of her comments regarding Russia.
Over the years I have visited Ukraine and Russia many times and I have read a lot about their history and love/hate relationship.
Just because I have lived in my adopted country, the UK, for 40+ years and acquired the British Nationality, do you really think the love for my birth place, Greece, has diminished at all or as "Halo" writes I am a "traitor" of my birth country?
I am sorry but my loyalty to both countries is equally shared.
Only people who don't have deep routes to any country are not loyal to them. Only these people can express such views and you know very well who are famous for such traits.
tiphat
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President Putin is using the World Cup in Russia as a "PR exercise" akin to how Hitler used the 1936 Olympics, the foreign secretary has agreed.
It made me feel pretty uncomfortable - if only because I know so many who will be involved and be proud to be part of an event that FIFA will not allow to be politicised outside of Russia
The Kremlin were real smart in their bid .... 'leasing the computers' used - so no evidence of corruption ;)))
With ref to the case of Litvnienko...... can you tell us what happened at the court and also why Mrs May has closed the file for 100 years?
Simple - the UK govt were too weak and the Home Secretary is now the PM and we'll be pushing up the daisies before we know I'm right
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Once a person leaves the motherland, he/she is no longer considered Russian. He/she is no longer a part of "us", he/she is not suffering with "us". That person is a traitor....
Sergei Skripal is a British citizen. The Russians have no right to any information about him. Yulia is a Russian citizen. The Russians are not entitled to see her, though they are entitled to information about her health.....
Again, useful idiots, apparently, with no knowledge of history.....
I'm not sure I've read so much rubbish from you in all my life. Are you informing us all that our wives are now traitors and no longer considered Russian - because they live in the west? Are you telling me that our wives are put in the same category as spies now? Utterly ridiculous and embarrasingly out of touch.
Russia is accused of trying to kill Skripal. They have every right to get involved. British citizen or not, the blokes Russian. Sounds to me like you're more of a bitter spouse to a Ukrainian, than a genned up history bore. You do know we're talking about Russia here and not the 1920's Soviet Union?
And finally, another silly little bit of childish insult to wrap up your post. Your history knowledge clearly belongs in the attic because well read or not, you sound like a dinosaur with that tripe.
WRONG! I would learn some manners when posting to a woman - you sound like an ill bred *snip* and rather stupid.
Oh wait you are in Scotland, I guess you have a get out of jail card.
Eh.....Halo has suggested that my thoughts lack clarity and judgment because I can only think with my dick. My wife is a traitor and carries a similar status to treasonous spies, because she saw it on a movie, and I'm a useful idiot!
Where were you riding over the glen, like a drunken, dyslexic white knight when those less than savoury comments arrived. Silly old man.
Halo has bigger balls than you'll ever have and we have spoken 1 to 1 over the years. However, I disagree with her on this subject and once you sober up, perhaps you can re-read the text, which I've kindly quoted above for your ease, and note the obvious lack of swearing or abuse. In fact the only abuse is you slandering my ethnicity which is quite ironic.
It doesn't matter that Halo is a woman and she wouldn't expect special 17th century privileges either. People are allowed to debate other people this century but if you can't grasp that then ask an adult.
Get over yourself, put your high visibility vest on, crack open another bottle and go play computer monitor on another thread.
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Halo,
Heads up.
Curious I just logged out and back in and indeed information to/on your avatar is missing. Both Wiz and Rosco have been present long enough to know better though.
Confederate is a 'newer' member but was present in another guise before. Otherwise it is the regular suspects.
Av
I'm sure Halo really needed your help here. :'(
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I'm not sure I've read so much rubbish from you in all my life. Are you informing us all that our wives are now traitors and no longer considered Russian - because they live in the west?
Well, firstly yours is a Belarus lass and secondly - although you couldn't feel it - Halo was speaking from the perspective of how many Russians THINK, ..Don't you know of the likes of Zhirinovsky? ( Dowry tax proposal - if taking a Russian wife overseas? )
Russia is accused of trying to kill Skripal. They have every right to get involved. British citizen or not, the blokes Russian. Sounds to me like you're more of a bitter spouse to a Ukrainian, than a genned up history bore. You do know we're talking about Russia here and not the 1920's Soviet Union?
Rosco, you may not be reading people / situations, too well .. The Kremlin has laws to allow those deemed to be threats to national security to be deal with overseas - what we might categorise as threats - would be seen as opposition in the UK - many are people who used to be part of the team running the country and there are personal scores being settled.
And finally, another silly little bit of childish insult to wrap up your post. Your history knowledge clearly belongs in the attic because well read or not, you sound like a dinosaur with that tripe. Can you imagine standing up in court trying to build a case against Russia and rambling on about darts in legs and the like, from the communist era? You'd get laughed at.
You should address the image in your shaving mirror, first - I'd rather take Halo's knowledge / experience of things FSU than yours - given she speaks the lingo..
Russia IS being run by younger elements of what WAS the KGB.. The sinister ways are still clearly visible - if you'd but care to try to look.
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With ref to the case of Litvnienko...... can you tell us what happened at the court and also why Mrs May has closed the file for 100 years?
Simple - the UK govt were too weak and the Home Secretary is now the PM and we'll be pushing up the daisies before we know I'm right
Remember that a Member of Duma was accused been the Assassin?
Well you are right..... "National Security" and you and me will be pushing daisies as you say! :laugh:
Is it coincidence that the same person, TM, was/is at the help of the British side?
"Illusions of Grandeur" comes to mind. She will never be a Thacher
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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I'm not sure I've read so much rubbish from you in all my life. Are you informing us all that our wives are now traitors and no longer considered Russian - because they live in the west?
Well, firstly yours is a Belarus lass and secondly - although you couldn't feel it - Halo was speaking from the perspective of how many Russians THINK, ..Don't you know of the likes of Zhirinovsky? ( Dowry tax proposal - if taking a Russian wife overseas? )
Russia is accused of trying to kill Skripal. They have every right to get involved. British citizen or not, the blokes Russian. Sounds to me like you're more of a bitter spouse to a Ukrainian, than a genned up history bore. You do know we're talking about Russia here and not the 1920's Soviet Union?
Rosco, you may not be reading people / situations, too well .. The Kremlin has laws to allow those deemed to be threats to national security to be deal with overseas - what we might categorise as threats - would be seen as opposition in the UK - many are people who used to be part of the team running the country and there are personal scores being settled.
And finally, another silly little bit of childish insult to wrap up your post. Your history knowledge clearly belongs in the attic because well read or not, you sound like a dinosaur with that tripe. Can you imagine standing up in court trying to build a case against Russia and rambling on about darts in legs and the like, from the communist era? You'd get laughed at.
You should address the image in your shaving mirror, first - I'd rather take Halo's knowledge / experience of things FSU than yours - given she speaks the lingo..
Russia IS being run by younger elements of what WAS the KGB.. The sinister ways are still clearly visible - if you'd but care to try to look.
Whatever Moby, stop being pedantic and address the real issue.
I don't for a minute suggest Halo's knowledge is limited or that Russia is completely innocent. The debate started when I, amongst others suggested that those who have already decided it was Putin, may want to look at it from another angle. Then the insults began to fly.
I have my own opinion on the matter and having a dick doesn't change that. I know what Russia is capable of but I also watched a Kangaroo court decide and the press proclaim, before any real evidence or investigation was carried out.
Sadly I doubt we'll get to the bottom of this one.
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Whatever Moby, stop being pedantic and address the real issue.
Rosco - my 'whatever' did address it ...
I don't for a minute suggest Halo's knowledge is limited or that Russia is completely innocent. The debate started when I, amongst others suggested that those who have already decided it was Putin, may want to look at it from another angle. Then the insults began to fly.
I have my own opinion on the matter and having a dick doesn't change that. I know what Russia is capable of but I also watched a Kangaroo court decide and the press proclaim, before any real evidence or investigation was carried out.
Sadly I doubt we'll get to the bottom of this one.
That's exactly what is wanted, in the west - plausible deniability - within Russia the news is " be a traitor and you won't live to be an old age "..
I forgot you can't understand Russian and don't watch Pevy Kanal news ..
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I forgot you can't understand Russian.....
One cannot forget what one doesn't know.
I don't recall telling you about the series of Russian evening classes at Edin Uni, I took a few years back......so I could communicate with my inlaws and the wife's friends. Must have lost your phone number?
More stabs in the dark. More Moby fails :'(
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Well, it appears some posters are reading with their d##ks as well. :chuckle:
I didn't state Russians abroad are traitors. It's not my personal opinion. This is a common perspective within Russia. It was a perspective that was extremely common in Soviet times, as one was leaving to "serve the interests of the bourgeoisie". I assumed this would change with the collapse of the USSR, but alas, it has not. I have pointed to this attitude being displayed, and discussed, on Russia's most popular talk show. Putin has made comments to this effect in the past, though since about 2010, the Russians started implementing a sort of hyper nationalist perspective, and he now states that the ideal would be for all Russians abroad to return to Russia.
rosco, in addition to misreading what I posted, how does this apply to your Belarussian wife? (That's rhetorical, BTW). I am referring to Russia, not Belarus, and I assume you are aware they are separate countries. ;D
The last conversation I had with someone on this topic was about a month ago. I was talking to a Russian student from Tambov. He hasn't emigrated, he is studying here and is all of 21 years old. I asked him specifically about this attitude, and he confirmed exactly what I described, laughing about it. The next time he comes for dinner (which will be April 8), I'll be certain to let him know he is a dinosaur. This is also is something my husband, who has made 4 trips to Russia in the past 18 months (one, specifically to visit the graves of his ancestors at the Novodevichy and Kazanskaya Cemeteries - I don't expect most will understand the significance of that), has also heard.
Av, I am not offended. But thank you.
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It was more about making a point Halo. That said, both her parents are Russian and there is the old, if a dogs born in a stable, does that make it a horse? If it makes you feel better about yourself, you can believe I don’t know the difference.
I’m glad you have 4 Russian friends who share your opinion. My wife has give or take the same amount with whom she works with. They’re round for coffee tomorrow at lunch.
Halo I read what you wrote and you intended to write it as fact. I believe that once upon a time when the Lord left Ireland, communists probably did think that about leavers. Today however, I doubt that’s the case unless discussing actual traitors or you and your husband associate with villiage types.
I must ask my wife’s colleagues how they feel about this, so I can make sweeping generalisations about Russian attitudes on a forum. :)
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I have dealt with Halo on this forum for years. It is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE that she is wrong about ANYTHING she posts. :thumbsup:
It is important to understand this before engaging her in discussion or argument :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
If you insist on arguing then cut out the personal insults.
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I have dealt with Halo on this forum for years. It is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE that she is wrong about ANYTHING she posts. :thumbsup:
It is important to understand this before engaging her in discussion or argument :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
If you insist on arguing then cut out the personal insults.
Roger that.
I think the moby/halo thing brings out the worst in me.
I should know better. :thumbsup:
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It was more about making a point Halo. That said, both her parents are Russian and there is the old, if a dogs born in a stable, does that make it a horse? If it makes you feel better about yourself, you can believe I don’t know the difference.
I’m glad you have 4 Russian friends who share your opinion. My wife has give or take the same amount with whom she works with. They’re round for coffee tomorrow at lunch.
Halo I read what you wrote and you intended to write it as fact. I believe that once upon a time when the Lord left Ireland, communists probably did think that about leavers. Today however, I doubt that’s the case unless discussing actual traitors or you and your husband associate with villiage types.
I must ask my wife’s colleagues how they feel about this, so I can make sweeping generalisations about Russian attitudes on a forum. :)
So, in other words, she was not born in Russia and never emigrated from Russia. So then why, exactly, would Russians have any view of her?
I have dealt with Halo on this forum for years. It is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE that she is wrong about ANYTHING she posts. :thumbsup:
It is important to understand this before engaging her in discussion or argument
If you insist on arguing then cut out the personal insults.
I have strong opinions. I don't back away from them. I don't really care if others disagree with me, and I/O changed my mind on one issue, as I told him.
I don't post on issues I know nothing about. For example, I have never posted anything about Turkey. Never been there, have zero interest to do so, have no opinion about their government vis a vis their population. I have never posted about dating sites, as I know nothing about them and have no interest. I haven't argued modern art, also something I know little about, with Av (but, Av, I do know a fair bit about icons :)) Thank you for the gratuitous insult.
I have dealt with Halo on this forum for years. It is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE that she is wrong about ANYTHING she posts. :thumbsup:
It is important to understand this before engaging her in discussion or argument :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
If you insist on arguing then cut out the personal insults.
Roger that.
I think the moby/halo thing brings out the worst in me.
I should know better. :thumbsup:
Perhaps you should be examining why you get so worked up over the opinions of strangers online.
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I think the moby/halo thing brings out the worst in me.
I should know better. :thumbsup:
Perhaps you should be examining why you get so worked up over the opinions of strangers online.
I am sure you have noticed that Moby has the kind of style and attitude that annoys everybody.
tiphat
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Only people who don't have deep routes to any country are not loyal to them. Only these people can express such views and you know very well who are famous for such traits.
I guess this would apply to me since I don't have strong ties to my birthplace nor ancestor's birthplace.
Anyway, history always repeats itself. The more things change, the more they stay the same. :chuckle:
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Only people who don't have deep routes to any country are not loyal to them. Only these people can express such views and you know very well who are famous for such traits.
I guess this would apply to me since I don't have strong ties to my birthplace nor ancestor's birthplace.
Anyway, history always repeats itself. The more things change, the more they stay the same. :chuckle:
I don't know where you come from, what is your ancestry etc but if you were born in Greece, a country with 4000 years History, huge historical and cultural inheritance, I am sure you would feel the same as we Greeks do.
The USA is full of Greek immigrants and on Sunday 25th March they will celebrate the anniversary of the revolution of 1821 against the "Ottoman Empire", with big parades in many cities in the US.
"Greek Americans are Americans of full or partial Greek ancestry. About 1.3 million American people are of Greek descent, although there are estimates that raise this number to 3 million, and 321,144 people older than five spoke Greek at home in the census of 2010."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Americans
Keep an Eye on your TV and see what happens on Sunday.
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It was more about making a point Halo. That said, both her parents are Russian and there is the old, if a dogs born in a stable, does that make it a horse? If it makes you feel better about yourself, you can believe I don’t know the difference.
I’m glad you have 4 Russian friends who share your opinion. My wife has give or take the same amount with whom she works with. They’re round for coffee tomorrow at lunch.
Halo I read what you wrote and you intended to write it as fact. I believe that once upon a time when the Lord left Ireland, communists probably did think that about leavers. Today however, I doubt that’s the case unless discussing actual traitors or you and your husband associate with villiage types.
I must ask my wife’s colleagues how they feel about this, so I can make sweeping generalisations about Russian attitudes on a forum. :)
So, in other words, she was not born in Russia and never emigrated from Russia. So then why, exactly, would Russians have any view of her?
I have dealt with Halo on this forum for years. It is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE that she is wrong about ANYTHING she posts. :thumbsup:
It is important to understand this before engaging her in discussion or argument
If you insist on arguing then cut out the personal insults.
I have strong opinions. I don't back away from them. I don't really care if others disagree with me, and I/O changed my mind on one issue, as I told him.
I don't post on issues I know nothing about. For example, I have never posted anything about Turkey. Never been there, have zero interest to do so, have no opinion about their government vis a vis their population. I have never posted about dating sites, as I know nothing about them and have no interest. I haven't argued modern art, also something I know little about, with Av (but, Av, I do know a fair bit about icons :)) Thank you for the gratuitous insult.
I have dealt with Halo on this forum for years. It is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE that she is wrong about ANYTHING she posts. :thumbsup:
It is important to understand this before engaging her in discussion or argument :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
If you insist on arguing then cut out the personal insults.
Roger that.
I think the moby/halo thing brings out the worst in me.
I should know better. :thumbsup:
Perhaps you should be examining why you get so worked up over the opinions of strangers online.
It’s unfortunate our discussion about my wife and seemingly all Russians viewing leavers as traitors, went right over your head. I’m not here to spoon feed you so let’s move along.
You claim that you don’t post on issues you know nothing about but I recall you talking rubbish about the Ukrainian football team at the Euros. You were way off the mark & that’s only one example that springs to mind.
Either way, this little counter has reminded me that you’re similar to Moby, in that you do hold strong opinions and never ever admit that you’re wrong. I find that frustrating but it’s my fault for engaging you in the first place.
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Only people who don't have deep routes to any country are not loyal to them. Only these people can express such views and you know very well who are famous for such traits.
I guess this would apply to me since I don't have strong ties to my birthplace nor ancestor's birthplace.
Anyway, history always repeats itself. The more things change, the more they stay the same. :chuckle:
I don't know where you come from, what is your ancestry etc but if you were born in Greece, a country with 4000 years History, huge historical and cultural inheritance, I am sure you would feel the same as we Greeks do.
The USA is full of Greek immigrants and on Sunday 25th March they will celebrate the anniversary of the revolution of 1821 against the "Ottoman Empire", with big parades in many cities in the US.
"Greek Americans are Americans of full or partial Greek ancestry. About 1.3 million American people are of Greek descent, although there are estimates that raise this number to 3 million, and 321,144 people older than five spoke Greek at home in the census of 2010."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Americans
Keep an Eye on your TV and see what happens on Sunday.
I don't believe that I have Greek ancestry. Haven't tried ancestry.com or 23andme.com :chuckle:
There is a Greek Orthodox church near where I live. They sometimes have those Greek festivals. The TV news will be about covering the "March for our lives" rally this weekend. I think that will overshadow any other gatherings in this country.
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Tomorrow, 25 March Celebration of Greek independence there will take place big parades in 5th Avenue in Manhattan, Washington, Detroit, Chicago etc.
(http://newyork.carpediem.cd/data/afisha/o/66/5c/665c16bcff.jpg)
(https://famousankles.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/20080406-greek-independence-day-parade-21-pittsburgh-olympic-dancers.jpg)
Have fun..
Manny years back I was travelling around Florida and one day we arrived in a town North o Tampa called Tarpor Springs........and was amazed to find shop name etc, almost everything in Greek Language.
Of course they also have a huge Church too.
tiphat
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US to expel 60 Russian diplomats now over this. Always have to go one better!
.
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Tarpon Springs
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Tarpon Springs
Tampon Strings
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Tarpon Springs
Tampon Strings
And who is the dyslexic one?
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It has been celebrated in Tarpon Springs for 112 years.
http://www.bradenton.com/news/local/article193344889.html
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First time most people have listen to Mrs May
Who are those amongst us who STILL think the Kremlin are being hard done by ?
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US to expel 60 Russian diplomats now over this. Always have to go one better!
.
Even Ukraine have thrown four Russian diplomats out along with just about every country in Europe.
So thats Mh17, the annexation of Crimea, the Invasion of East Ukraine, hacking the NHS computers and interferring in UK, EU and US elections. Is this really about the use of Novichok or has everyone just got fed up with Putin throwing his weight around?
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US to expel 60 Russian diplomats now over this. Always have to go one better!
.
Even Ukraine have thrown four Russian diplomats out along with just about every country in Europe.
So thats Mh17, the annexation of Crimea, the Invasion of East Ukraine, hacking the NHS computers and interferring in UK, EU and US elections. Is this really about the use of Novichok or has everyone just got fed up with Putin throwing his weight around?
Crimea... ahh lovely peninsula. People have been so happy since their democratic rights have been allowed & they rejoined Russia.
And Yes, check where my wife is from here on the left. I do know this subject.
The rest: Where's the proof?
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"Where's the proof?"
Isn't that what everyone is asking? So far there isnt much that we know about and yet all these countries do what little they can to support May.
We all know that there is nothing conclusive to support any of the accusations i mentioned, so how has she convinced so many countries to side with her?
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This is a matter of political opportunism.
My feeling is that there is no 'novichok' but that the Skripals did suffer something. The narrative of 'Russian attack' was put forth as an opportunistic attack upon Russia. The inconsistencies, backfilling and memory-holing of the inconsistencies tells me that the story we have been told is untrue.
The larger story is the demonization of Rusia and Putin, the Skripals were just a convenient coincidence that enabled the larger story to be pushed forward. That's why the reactions of British 'allies' was so rapid and similar. They know the story is bogus but it does not matter, given the opportunity presented.
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Here's the full list so far:
United States: 60
Britain: 23
Ukraine: 13
NATO: 7
Canada: 4
France: 4
Germany: 4
Poland: 4
Czech Republic: 3
Lithuania: 3
Moldova: 3
Albania: 2
Australia: 2
Denmark: 2
Italy: 2
The Netherlands: 2
Spain: 2
Belgium: 1
Croatia: 1
Estonia: 1
Hungary: 1
Ireland: 1
Finland: 1
Latvia: 1
FYROM: 1
So which was the country that its PM told T May he is not going to expel anybody until a serious and reliable investigation takes Place
:ROFL:
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How's this for a conspiracy theory? The same group of people taking out the half-brother of Kim Jong Un is also involved with the Skirpal job. DPRK wants to shift the focus to its neighbor so that they will no longer will be target of the UN. As the saying goes, better YOU than ME. :whist11: :thumbsup: :nod:
So who set up the murder of Leon Trotsky? It was FDR of course. :chuckle:
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How's this for a conspiracy theory? The same group of people taking out the half-brother of Kim Jong Un is also involved with the Skirpal job. DPRK wants to shift the focus to its neighbor so that they will no longer will be target of the UN. As the saying goes, better YOU than ME. :whist11: :thumbsup: :nod:
So who set up the murder of Leon Trotsky? It was FDR of course. :chuckle:
You are :offtopic:
The question was:So which was the country that its PM told T May he is not going to expel anybody until a serious and reliable investigation takes Place
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How's this for a conspiracy theory? The same group of people taking out the half-brother of Kim Jong Un is also involved with the Skirpal job. DPRK wants to shift the focus to its neighbor so that they will no longer will be target of the UN. As the saying goes, better YOU than ME. :whist11: :thumbsup: :nod:
So who set up the murder of Leon Trotsky? It was FDR of course. :chuckle:
You are :offtopic:
The question was:So which was the country that its PM told T May he is not going to expel anybody until a serious and reliable investigation takes Place
It was Austria.
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First time most people have listen to Mrs May
Who are those amongst us who STILL think the Kremlin are being hard done by ?
I have my own opinion on the matter but it is exactly that. The U.K. government keeps telling us it’s Russia, the papers are telling us it’s Russia, allied countries have been expelling Russian diplomats in support of the U.K. and it might turn out that Russia is actually to blame.
With that said, I’ve yet to see any shred evidence or proof that it was the Kremlin or even something which suggests that it had to be the Russians and weeks have passed with nothing but finger pointing. Logically, it appears that we are being told what to think, as apposed to being presented with fact, in order to come to our own conclusion. That’s misleading and morally wrong.
I repeat, the Kremlin could be guilty in this instance but shame on anyone who’s decided a guilty verdict based on what we know today. Right now, it only shows how powerful media is and how simple most people are.
And where do we go from here? Let’s say a rape case in the U.K. courts. We have no proof it was Mr X, no evidence but it’s highly likely he did it.....lock him up!! :popcorn:
I’d like to think an investigation will prove beyond doubt who did it, if it did in fact happen but I suspect the outcome will be, we think it was probably Russia.....and the smear campaign will continue without any proof.
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Safe to assume the authorities know more than we do, back in the nineties when I was working at Sellafield, i needed positive vetting and the things they knew...
But don’t tell you until you absolutely need to know.
Thats why I tend to side with the authorities on matters such as these, not Facebook or randomers on internet fora. Certainly not the news not even the leftie/rightie liberal trotsky Zionist (delete as appropriate) Auntie Beeb..
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Safe to assume the authorities know more than we do, back in the nineties when I was working at Sellafield, i needed positive vetting and the things they knew...
But don’t tell you until you absolutely need to know.
Thats why I tend to side with the authorities on matters such as these, not Facebook or randomers on internet fora. Certainly not the news not even the leftie/rightie liberal trotsky Zionist (delete as appropriate) Auntie Beeb..
Even if you want to give the GB-Govt the benefit of the doubt:
A) they violated their agreement with Russia by not taking blood-samples with Russian representatives there.
B) They violated their agreement by not sending the samples to Russia for analysis.
C) They -again this is boring- violated their agreement with Russia by now allowing the embassy access to the victims (russian nationals)... even if you're worried that it was Russia that did this, you can provide access under supervision.
So whats a treaty worth these days? Apparently nothing, since you can be denied of all its rights and still be accused of something without proof.
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What treaty is this? Not being obverse i just dont know.
In any case the matter is a police matter at the moment AIUI - im not sure how that effects any international treaties or conventions.
Also conventions are ignored by all sides frequently when things can lead to compomise.
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How's this for a conspiracy theory? The same group of people taking out the half-brother of Kim Jong Un is also involved with the Skirpal job. DPRK wants to shift the focus to its neighbor so that they will no longer will be target of the UN. As the saying goes, better YOU than ME. :whist11: :thumbsup: :nod:
So who set up the murder of Leon Trotsky? It was FDR of course. :chuckle:
You are :offtopic:
The question was:So which was the country that its PM told T May he is not going to expel anybody until a serious and reliable investigation takes Place
It was Austria.
and surprise surprise little Greece to!
To be honest I was very surprised with the Greek PM Tsipras statement ... :)
Teresa May did not looked happy on the video.....
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A) they violated their agreement with Russia by not taking blood-samples with Russian representatives there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention
B) They violated their agreement by not sending the samples to Russia for analysis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention
C) They -again this is boring- violated their agreement with Russia by now allowing the embassy access to the victims (russian nationals)... even if you're worried that it was Russia that did this, you can provide access under supervision.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Diplomatic_Relations
For ste, with source links.
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A) they violated their agreement with Russia by not taking blood-samples with Russian representatives there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention
B) They violated their agreement by not sending the samples to Russia for analysis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention
C) They -again this is boring- violated their agreement with Russia by now allowing the embassy access to the victims (russian nationals)... even if you're worried that it was Russia that did this, you can provide access under supervision.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Diplomatic_Relations
For ste, with source links.
Links only seem to relate to prohibition, stockpiling and destruction of chemical weapons, and diplomatic immunity, cant see anythibg about taking samples etc
Im on a restricted network though, tight as a drum in UK banks...
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First time most people have listen to Mrs May
Who are those amongst us who STILL think the Kremlin are being hard done by ?
I have my own opinion on the matter but it is exactly that. The U.K. government keeps telling us it’s Russia, the papers are telling us it’s Russia, allied countries have been expelling Russian diplomats in support of the U.K. and it might turn out that Russia is actually to blame.
With that said, I’ve yet to see any shred evidence or proof that it was the Kremlin or even something which suggests that it had to be the Russians and weeks have passed with nothing but finger pointing. Logically, it appears that we are being told what to think, as apposed to being presented with fact, in order to come to our own conclusion. That’s misleading and morally wrong.
I repeat, the Kremlin could be guilty in this instance but shame on anyone who’s decided a guilty verdict based on what we know today. Right now, it only shows how powerful media is and how simple most people are.
And where do we go from here? Let’s say a rape case in the U.K. courts. We have no proof it was Mr X, no evidence but it’s highly likely he did it.....lock him up!! :popcorn:
I’d like to think an investigation will prove beyond doubt who did it, if it did in fact happen but I suspect the outcome will be, we think it was probably Russia.....and the smear campaign will continue without any proof.
The stakes are so much higher than a rape case Rosco however good analogy.
As Gypsy wrote above the U.K. has not followed protocol but instead engaged in a rush to judgement.
Props to Austria for engaging in rational conduct.
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First time most people have listen to Mrs May
Who are those amongst us who STILL think the Kremlin are being hard done by ?
I have my own opinion on the matter but it is exactly that. The U.K. government keeps telling us it’s Russia, the papers are telling us it’s Russia, allied countries have been expelling Russian diplomats in support of the U.K. and it might turn out that Russia is actually to blame.
With that said, I’ve yet to see any shred evidence or proof that it was the Kremlin or even something which suggests that it had to be the Russians and weeks have passed with nothing but finger pointing. Logically, it appears that we are being told what to think, as apposed to being presented with fact, in order to come to our own conclusion. That’s misleading and morally wrong.
I repeat, the Kremlin could be guilty in this instance but shame on anyone who’s decided a guilty verdict based on what we know today. Right now, it only shows how powerful media is and how simple most people are.
And where do we go from here? Let’s say a rape case in the U.K. courts. We have no proof it was Mr X, no evidence but it’s highly likely he did it.....lock him up!! :popcorn:
I’d like to think an investigation will prove beyond doubt who did it, if it did in fact happen but I suspect the outcome will be, we think it was probably Russia.....and the smear campaign will continue without any proof.
The stakes are so much higher than a rape case Rosco however good analogy.
As Gypsy wrote above the U.K. has not followed protocol but instead engaged in a rush to judgement.
Props to Austria for engaging in rational conduct.
The expulsions are a different matter to the alledged nerve agent issue.
I cannot see anywhere in the CWC re blood samples, agent samples or access to be granted to the alledged protagonists, only Russia demanding these in 10 days. Indeed the OPCW will hand over samples to Russia when theyve finished their analysis.
These treaties and conventions seem to be about control and destruction of stockpiled chemical weapons, not the policing of judicial procedure.
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A) they violated their agreement with Russia by not taking blood-samples with Russian representatives there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention
B) They violated their agreement by not sending the samples to Russia for analysis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention
C) They -again this is boring- violated their agreement with Russia by now allowing the embassy access to the victims (russian nationals)... even if you're worried that it was Russia that did this, you can provide access under supervision.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Diplomatic_Relations
For ste, with source links.
Links only seem to relate to prohibition, stockpiling and destruction of chemical weapons, and diplomatic immunity, cant see anythibg about taking samples etc
Im on a restricted network though, tight as a drum in UK banks...
Article 14. https://www.opcw.org/chemical-weapons-convention/articles/article-xiv-settlement-of-disputes/
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A) they violated their agreement with Russia by not taking blood-samples with Russian representatives there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention
B) They violated their agreement by not sending the samples to Russia for analysis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention
C) They -again this is boring- violated their agreement with Russia by now allowing the embassy access to the victims (russian nationals)... even if you're worried that it was Russia that did this, you can provide access under supervision.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Diplomatic_Relations
For ste, with source links.
Links only seem to relate to prohibition, stockpiling and destruction of chemical weapons, and diplomatic immunity, cant see anythibg about taking samples etc
Im on a restricted network though, tight as a drum in UK banks...
Article 14. https://www.opcw.org/chemical-weapons-convention/articles/article-xiv-settlement-of-disputes/
That just outlines the grievance procedure with the terms of the Convention.
If i can see a clause that states accesses and samples as abscribed must be delivered i’ll accept it, just i cant see it!
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A) they violated their agreement with Russia by not taking blood-samples with Russian representatives there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention
B) They violated their agreement by not sending the samples to Russia for analysis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention
C) They -again this is boring- violated their agreement with Russia by now allowing the embassy access to the victims (russian nationals)... even if you're worried that it was Russia that did this, you can provide access under supervision.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Diplomatic_Relations
For ste, with source links.
Links only seem to relate to prohibition, stockpiling and destruction of chemical weapons, and diplomatic immunity, cant see anythibg about taking samples etc
Im on a restricted network though, tight as a drum in UK banks...
Article 14. https://www.opcw.org/chemical-weapons-convention/articles/article-xiv-settlement-of-disputes/
That just outlines the grievance procedure with the terms of the Convention.
If i can see a clause that states accesses and samples as abscribed must be delivered i’ll accept it, just i cant see it!
.
According to this article. What should be gb's first action if they think russia is playing foul with chemical poisons
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If you’re really going to hit Putin’s power base, you have to go beyond the expulsion of some diplomats and spies, who can be replaced,” he added.
http://www.newsweek.com/russia-warns-new-cold-war-after-mass-expulsion-diplomats-863739
Long live the Cold War! :chuckle:
This would be good news to defense contractors. Big money contracts to keep buying and creating more military hardware. Start buying the stocks of the defense industry. :nod:
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The danger is not in invasion. It is in manipulating weak minded Westerners into viewing almost fascist ideologies as normal. It is about viewing the rule of law as a weakness. It is about sowing political instability and breaking social cohesion. The Russians don't even attempt to hide this, referring to establishment, in Lavrov's words, of a "post Western world order", which in Russia's perspective, is based on might making right.
Almost fascist ideologies? Not sure about that one after the Soviet Union gave up 25 million plus souls to defeat fascist ideology.
The rule of law as weakness? I’m at least on Canadian jurisdiction, the state now has the right to remove children from families where the parents are abusing them by questioning the child has made a mature decision about having a sex change. I think the west is doing a fine job turning the rule of law into weakness.
Might makes right? Hasn’t that been the US’ calling card since World War II? If the Russians are now doing it, blame the teacher.
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Well, it appears some posters are reading with their d##ks as well. :chuckle:
I didn't state Russians abroad are traitors. It's not my personal opinion. This is a common perspective within Russia. It was a perspective that was extremely common in Soviet times, as one was leaving to "serve the interests of the bourgeoisie". I assumed this would change with the collapse of the USSR, but alas, it has not. I have pointed to this attitude being displayed, and discussed, on Russia's most popular talk show. Putin has made comments to this effect in the past, though since about 2010, the Russians started implementing a sort of hyper nationalist perspective, and he now states that the ideal would be for all Russians abroad to return to Russia.
rosco, in addition to misreading what I posted, how does this apply to your Belarussian wife? (That's rhetorical, BTW). I am referring to Russia, not Belarus, and I assume you are aware they are separate countries. ;D
The last conversation I had with someone on this topic was about a month ago. I was talking to a Russian student from Tambov. He hasn't emigrated, he is studying here and is all of 21 years old. I asked him specifically about this attitude, and he confirmed exactly what I described, laughing about it. The next time he comes for dinner (which will be April 8), I'll be certain to let him know he is a dinosaur. This is also is something my husband, who has made 4 trips to Russia in the past 18 months (one, specifically to visit the graves of his ancestors at the Novodevichy and Kazanskaya Cemeteries - I don't expect most will understand the significance of that), has also heard.
Av, I am not offended. But thank you.
Have been trying to catch up on this thread and still on page 6 or 7. Just offering the thumbs up here as I understood your original post was describing a certain mentality about Russians living abroad and that they weren’t your own personal thoughts. I was going to clarify this myself when I ran across your post.
Following the thread, at first I was confused by the disconnect and then I started realizing that some people are just showing themselves up as massively stupid, regardless of their point of view. It seems like some are way to eager to post and this prevents them from reading a little more closely. It was pretty bloody obvious what she meant, can’t believe the faux insult about wives not being Russians went on for almost a page in the thread.
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If you’re really going to hit Putin’s power base, you have to go beyond the expulsion of some diplomats and spies, who can be replaced,” he added.
http://www.newsweek.com/russia-warns-new-cold-war-after-mass-expulsion-diplomats-863739
Long live the Cold War! :chuckle:
This would be good news to defense contractors. Big money contracts to keep buying and creating more military hardware. Start buying the stocks of the defense industry. :nod:
This is the story that explains everything, in my opinion.
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I forgot you can't understand Russian.....
One cannot forget what one doesn't know.
I don't recall telling you about the series of Russian evening classes at Edin Uni, I took a few years back......so I could communicate with my inlaws and the wife's friends. Must have lost your phone number?
More stabs in the dark. More Moby fails :'(
Naturally, we can't have moby responding - better to make it LOOK like rosco 'put me in my place' ...
Whilst I'm REALLY pleased you've taking such a course - ( seriously) - I've a pretty good ear for languages and it's taken me YEARS to get the gist of RU lang news
So, I'm saying I KNOW you won't have seen the Pervy Kanal news and listened - in Russian - to the guy making it clear that this was his 'personal opinion' - and that "traitors should know they won't live to old age", when the new broke
Now, I'm certain this WAS his personal opinion - and he won't be fired for telling Russia..
I'm sure your really DO get my drift.....
If not - I'll spoon feed it for you
The Kremlin weren't unhappy for such a message to hit the airwaves and then deny involvement
To me, it's clear that a message was being sent out.
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Following the thread, at first I was confused by the disconnect and then I started realizing that some people are just showing themselves up as massively stupid.....It was pretty bloody obvious what she meant.....
Of course it is. What's been said is said but your little dig is noted.
What I did find out the other week, was that our Russian friends in Scotland (25-38 years old) disagreed that this perspective was common in Russia. They thought that this might have been true during the communist period but not today.
Now I wont be making sweeping generalisations because of the opinion of a few people I discussed it with but it's clear to see that it directly opposes the one described by Halo. Call me stupid at your peril but your post doesn't nothing to raise your own stock matey.
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Long live the Cold War! :chuckle:
This would be good news to defense contractors. Big money contracts to keep buying and creating more military hardware. Start buying the stocks of the defense industry. :nod:
I'm already long NOC and HII
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I forgot you can't understand Russian.....
One cannot forget what one doesn't know.
I don't recall telling you about the series of Russian evening classes at Edin Uni, I took a few years back......so I could communicate with my inlaws and the wife's friends. Must have lost your phone number?
More stabs in the dark. More Moby fails :'(
Naturally, we can't have moby responding - better to make it LOOK like rosco 'put me in my place' ...
Whilst I'm REALLY pleased you've taking such a course - ( seriously) - I've a pretty good ear for languages and it's taken me YEARS to get the gist of RU lang news
So, I'm saying I KNOW you won't have seen the Pervy Kanal news and listened - in Russian - to the guy making it clear that this was his 'personal opinion' - and that "traitors should know they won't live to old age", when the new broke
Now, I'm certain this WAS his personal opinion - and he won't be fired for telling Russia..
I'm sure your really DO get my drift.....
If not - I'll spoon feed it for you
The Kremlin weren't unhappy for such a message to hit the airwaves and then deny involvement
To me, it's clear that a message was being sent out.
Moby, its the easter weekend. Enjoy life!
I simply wanted to put you straight on my abilities to communicate in Russian. It's certainly not native and I doubt I'd get a job at my level but I'm no dummy either.
What was your take on the first race of the season? :)
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Moby, its the easter weekend. Enjoy life!
I'm 'working' - taking a break - it's not Easter for us ;)
I simply wanted to put you straight on my abilities to communicate in Russian. It's certainly not native and I doubt I'd get a job at my level but I'm no dummy either.
Yes, yes, yes [ Kimi mode ] - but let's not deviate from the 'message' ;)
What was your take on the first race of the season? :)
Hmm, it was the 2nd night of our 40th anniversary reunion - my fellow student DID say I was 'mad' to try to watch it live - having only gone to bed at 0400..
I fell asleep just after HAM pitted - woke up to see Ted's post race note book ..Having watched the recording - didn't miss much ((
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Moby, its the easter weekend. Enjoy life!
I'm 'working' - taking a break - it's not Easter for us ;)
I simply wanted to put you straight on my abilities to communicate in Russian. It's certainly not native and I doubt I'd get a job at my level but I'm no dummy either.
Yes, yes, yes [ Kimi mode ] - but let's not deviate from the 'message' ;)
What was your take on the first race of the season? :)
Hmm, it was the 2nd night of our 40th anniversary reunion - my fellow student DID say I was 'mad' to try to watch it live - having only gone to bed at 0400..
I fell asleep just after HAM pitted - woke up to see Ted's post race note book ..Having watched the recording - didn't miss much ((
The sport needs a shake up both on and off the grid.
Too much aero, dislike the Halo, still hate the new gen engines, too much saving of tyres, engines & fuel which hinders the racing, unfair revenue distribution and too expensive. We need more teams on the grid.
I’ll still watch it but I feel sorry for the new fans, not getting to experience F1 for the first time as a kid in the early 90’s. My jaw dropped watching & lisening to these monsters being driven by hero’s.
It’ll never be the same again unless they change what F1 stands for. If it were me, I’d bring back the v10’s with energy recovery, make all non performance parts spec to cap costs, remove fuel flow limits to make drivers push start to finish and remove as much of the aero wake disturbance to get the cars following each other. Fast, noisy, exciting, open cockpit racing with 26 cars on the grid......just the ticket.
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We hereby interupt the politics to remind everybody why we're really here.
https://www.loveme.com/members/women_extraphoto?wid=178144&wname=6_Anastasia
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2018/03/30/russia-tests-worlds-heaviest-ballistic-missile-dubbed-satan/amp/
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Russia expels more British diplomats
Moscow orders diplomatic staff to be reduced
to same level as Russian missions in Britain
Russia has announced a further round of expulsions of British diplomats, escalating the fallout over the poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter.
Britain has pointed the finger firmly at the Kremlin for the Salisbury attack and expelled 23 Russian diplomats, a move swiftly followed in kind by Russia, which also closed down the British Council, the cultural arm of the British government.
The Russians have now ordered Britain to reduce its diplomatic staff in Russia to the same level as Russian diplomatic missions in the UK. It comes after irritation in Moscow that Britain has persuaded so many other countries to expel Russians.
On Thursday, reports emerged that Yulia Skripal, 33, is conscious and talking, having apparently made a surprising recovery from what was considered a grave condition. Her father’s condition is described as critical but stable.
Read the full article Here (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/30/russia-expels-more-british-diplomats-spy-poisoning-row?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=269613&subid=11190449&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2)
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Following the thread, at first I was confused by the disconnect and then I started realizing that some people are just showing themselves up as massively stupid.....It was pretty bloody obvious what she meant.....
Of course it is. What's been said is said but your little dig is noted.
What I did find out the other week, was that our Russian friends in Scotland (25-38 years old) disagreed that this perspective was common in Russia. They thought that this might have been true during the communist period but not today.
Now I wont be making sweeping generalisations because of the opinion of a few people I discussed it with but it's clear to see that it directly opposes the one described by Halo. Call me stupid at your peril but your post doesn't nothing to raise your own stock matey.
I’ve tried to use the multi-quote feature so we could look at the original quote at the same time that I reply to your quote, but it doesn’t seem to be working. I guess I’ll know for sure when I press the “Reply” button.
Looking back at Halo’s original post, it was pretty clear what she meant and pretty obvious that she wasn’t actually casting a slur on Russians who live out of the country.
And to understand that is different than saying I agree with her. I just understood the point she was trying to make. It seems like some of you rushed out of the gates assuming your wives were being attacked.
I found this strange, but I shouldn’t have called people stupid. That was a bit over the top and maybe had something to do with going backwards and forwards on the forum after getting confused as it seemed I had missed something.
Living in Moscow, I have seen that the opinions go across the spectrum and back again. They are always more nuanced than the opinions of outside observers (I include myself in that), and often include things that none of us outsiders would ever even have thought of. So yeah, Rosco, I’m not surprised that your friends have a different view than Halo’s friends. These are the views of Russians, who know their country well. Who’s right and who’s wrong? As for me, I just listen and learn.
For what it’s worth, I knew there was some disconnect in the forum, but I didn’t know who (there was more than one) was all thinking that their wife was being called traitor. So while, I regret saying “stupid”, it was somewhat generalized and not at all personal. Anyway, it wasn’t the right word.
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Jerash, when referring to the views of Russians, it is worth noting that 'Halo' is not Russian and has, in the past, displayed a significant degree of antipathy toward those who live in Russia, or who consider themselves to be Russian. The person behind the Halo avatar is not stupid but does seem to have a rather closed mind.
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Following the thread, at first I was confused by the disconnect and then I started realizing that some people are just showing themselves up as massively stupid.....It was pretty bloody obvious what she meant.....
Of course it is. What's been said is said but your little dig is noted.
What I did find out the other week, was that our Russian friends in Scotland (25-38 years old) disagreed that this perspective was common in Russia. They thought that this might have been true during the communist period but not today.
Now I wont be making sweeping generalisations because of the opinion of a few people I discussed it with but it's clear to see that it directly opposes the one described by Halo. Call me stupid at your peril but your post doesn't nothing to raise your own stock matey.
I’ve tried to use the multi-quote feature so we could look at the original quote at the same time that I reply to your quote, but it doesn’t seem to be working. I guess I’ll know for sure when I press the “Reply” button.
Looking back at Halo’s original post, it was pretty clear what she meant and pretty obvious that she wasn’t actually casting a slur on Russians who live out of the country.
And to understand that is different than saying I agree with her. I just understood the point she was trying to make. It seems like some of you rushed out of the gates assuming your wives were being attacked.
I found this strange, but I shouldn’t have called people stupid. That was a bit over the top and maybe had something to do with going backwards and forwards on the forum after getting confused as it seemed I had missed something.
Living in Moscow, I have seen that the opinions go across the spectrum and back again. They are always more nuanced than the opinions of outside observers (I include myself in that), and often include things that none of us outsiders would ever even have thought of. So yeah, Rosco, I’m not surprised that your friends have a different view than Halo’s friends. These are the views of Russians, who know their country well. Who’s right and who’s wrong? As for me, I just listen and learn.
For what it’s worth, I knew there was some disconnect in the forum, but I didn’t know who (there was more than one) was all thinking that their wife was being called traitor. So while, I regret saying “stupid”, it was somewhat generalized and not at all personal. Anyway, it wasn’t the right word.
Fair enough mate and there's not much else to add to this one.
FWIW, I wasn't mortally offended by the suggestion, but disagreed and made my point. I wasn't rushing anything and merely pointed out how ridiculous it was.
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Jerash, when referring to the views of Russians, it is worth noting that 'Halo' is not Russian and has, in the past, displayed a significant degree of antipathy toward those who live in Russia, or who consider themselves to be Russian. The person behind the Halo avatar is not stupid but does seem to have a rather closed mind.
She fits the description of someone on the other forum.
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Jerash, when referring to the views of Russians, it is worth noting that 'Halo' is not Russian and has, in the past, displayed a significant degree of antipathy toward those who live in Russia, or who consider themselves to be Russian. The person behind the Halo avatar is not stupid but does seem to have a rather closed mind.
She fits the description of someone on the other forum.
Indeed, people often change name between fora.
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Jerash, when referring to the views of Russians, it is worth noting that 'Halo' is not Russian and has, in the past, displayed a significant degree of antipathy toward those who live in Russia, or who consider themselves to be Russian. The person behind the Halo avatar is not stupid but does seem to have a rather closed mind.
She fits the description of someone on the other forum
Seems that you both have missed my post No 127 on this thread.
Wiz,
Halo is a woman of Ukraine background. She meet during the time that Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union and married a man from there in this period. In prior posts she has depicted this reality.
As a woman she has raised a number of children to be adults and is a practicing lawyer in Canada.
AvHdB
AvHdB
I have a vague suspicion that I have met the lady in question in another board and we had pleasant exchanges. I think she was born in western Ukraine and that explain most of her comments regarding Russia.
Over the years I have visited Ukraine and Russia many times and I have read a lot about their history and love/hate relationship.
PS: If I remember well, her Name is Cathy
tiphat
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There is a fair bit of disconnect present.
Jerash, when referring to the views of Russians, it is worth noting that 'Halo' is not Russian and has, in the past, displayed a significant degree of antipathy toward those who live in Russia, or who consider themselves to be Russian. The person behind the Halo avatar is not stupid but does seem to have a rather closed mind.
For what is worth, presently there are only a small minority posters that have direct ties to Russia. Andrewfi/Fifi, visited Russia almost a generation ago, St Petersburg as I recall. It should be also noted Fifi does not speak Russian/Ukraine, Halo does. His disdain to all things North-American and those who reside there is quite evident in his postings.
If one is a biased (or a paid blogger) than one can expect a relevant degree of pro-Russian propaganda from a person such as Fifi.
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There is a fair bit of disconnect present.
Jerash, when referring to the views of Russians, it is worth noting that 'Halo' is not Russian and has, in the past, displayed a significant degree of antipathy toward those who live in Russia, or who consider themselves to be Russian. The person behind the Halo avatar is not stupid but does seem to have a rather closed mind.
For what is worth, presently there are only a small minority posters that have direct ties to Russia. Andrewfi/Fifi, visited Russia almost a generation ago, St Petersburg as I recall. It should be also noted Fifi does not speak Russian/Ukraine, Halo does. His disdain to all things North-American and those who reside there is quite evident in his postings.
If one is a biased (or a paid blogger) than one can expect a relevant degree of pro-Russian propaganda from a person such as Fifi.
her words and behavior have always been hollow and rigid.
-
There is a fair bit of disconnect present.
Jerash, when referring to the views of Russians, it is worth noting that 'Halo' is not Russian and has, in the past, displayed a significant degree of antipathy toward those who live in Russia, or who consider themselves to be Russian. The person behind the Halo avatar is not stupid but does seem to have a rather closed mind.
For what is worth, presently there are only a small minority posters that have direct ties to Russia. Andrewfi/Fifi, visited Russia almost a generation ago, St Petersburg as I recall. It should be also noted Fifi does not speak Russian/Ukraine, Halo does. His disdain to all things North-American and those who reside there is quite evident in his postings.
If one is a biased (or a paid blogger) than one can expect a relevant degree of pro-Russian propaganda from a person such as Fifi.
Jewish "Lion" and paid up Jewish Troll....
Today is PASCHA, EASTER for (most) Christians.
Greek and Russian orthodox churches celebrate Next Sunday.
Have you forgot or deliberately you are bringing decent to the board?
Actually it's the latter because that is what JEWS do all over the World and at any opportunity.
I know AndrewFi for too many years and I understand the reasons of your dislike and enmity towards him. It's his superior intellectual capacity and Knowledge about most countries of the former USSR.
Now Go back to sleep and do not open your mouth again.
>:(
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Amusing how those with no intellect respond to the truth.
Wiz while it is helpful that you have friends for many years that can not see the reality and truth does nothing for you as a person.
And yes when I sing and say 'Praise the Lord he is Risen' as well note your hatred I will open my mouth. Get used to it.
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It is somewhat amusing to see grown men who have been put down...and so often, correctly so...by Halo.
There is so much guff written about life in Russia and what Russians think by folks who do not go there... 'protesting' about visa regulations.
FACT ..when one is afraid to speak one's mind about one's country...what is wrong about it...Or one is encouraged to vote...lest the numbers look too low.....because folks really couldn't be arsed... one has to wonder about the agenda of sycophants who by their posts have Russians shaking their heads in disbelief.
I do not always agree with Halo.. but only a fool would dismiss her knowledge / opinion, so lightly.
-
Amusing how those with no intellect respond to the truth.
Wiz while it is helpful that you have friends for many years that can not see the reality and truth does nothing for you as a person.
And yes when I sing and say 'Praise the Lord he is Risen' as well note your hatred I will open my mouth. Get used to it.
What truth... your enmity against Andrew, in every post he makes?
I have never said that Andrew and I are close friends but always respected his posts, which in comparison to yours are light years ahead.
Be sure, despite I am not an intellectual...... like you :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I will not hesitate to call him to account if he posts any lies.
I have already told you that I never hate anybody.... but don't hesitate to open my mouth and criticise nasty actions by Governments, States and people.
BTW what was the total of dead people (mostly young demonstrators) shot by the Isra(h)el army in Gaza last week?
Shalom shalom >:(
Our first Greek Orthodox Easter in Corfu in 2010 was a fantastic experience.........
Take a look at this short video to get a taste and keep an eye... at 3.59
to See Hanna on the right looking up and behind me in red shirt .... after the priest said
CHRISTOS ANESTI .....Christ is Risen.Checking to find some seats... will be there for our 5th visit at Easter.
tiphat
PS: I lived in the island for 14 years and always was the same atmosphere with 1000's of visitors.
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Things are getting serious now....
(https://s5.postimg.org/px1top7lz/29665260_2025365484380948_7105184851688940383_o.jpg)
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Ok..now we know the truth....
https://news.sky.com/story/russian-foreign-minister-sergey-lavrov-says-britain-could-have-poisoned-spy-11313772 (https://news.sky.com/story/russian-foreign-minister-sergey-lavrov-says-britain-could-have-poisoned-spy-11313772)
''Britain did it to divert attention from the government's failure to deliver on 'brexit...' ''
-
Jerash, when referring to the views of Russians, it is worth noting that 'Halo' is not Russian and has, in the past, displayed a significant degree of antipathy toward those who live in Russia, or who consider themselves to be Russian. The person behind the Halo avatar is not stupid but does seem to have a rather closed mind.
She fits the description of someone on the other forum.
Indeed, people often change name between fora.
I recall back when I got online over 20 years ago and a chat forum that started friendly later degenerated into name calling and rumor mongering. One male avatar was accused of creating a female avatar and just trolling around. Several people used IP tracking to tie the two avatars to each other. The male avatar denied being the other "personality" and then vanished. There are people with schizoid issues and ADHD on the internet. And there are tons of lonely people who have nothing else to do. There are plenty of online reviews, but an estimate indicated that probably 3/4 of them are fakes. There was this guy on TV news item whose name was used on two online reviews that he said that he never used either merchant. His photo was copied and posted on the reviews. :sick0012: :D
-
Jerash, when referring to the views of Russians, it is worth noting that 'Halo' is not Russian and has, in the past, displayed a significant degree of antipathy toward those who live in Russia, or who consider themselves to be Russian. The person behind the Halo avatar is not stupid but does seem to have a rather closed mind.
She fits the description of someone on the other forum.
Indeed, people often change name between fora.
I recall back when I got online over 20 years ago and a chat forum that started friendly later degenerated into name calling and rumor mongering. One male avatar was accused of creating a female avatar and just trolling around. Several people used IP tracking to tie the two avatars to each other. The male avatar denied being the other "personality" and then vanished. There are people with schizoid issues and ADHD on the internet. And there are tons of lonely people who have nothing else to do. There are plenty of online reviews, but an estimate indicated that probably 3/4 of them are fakes. There was this guy on TV news item whose name was used on two online reviews that he said that he never used either merchant. His photo was copied and posted on the reviews. :sick0012: :D
In this case though, Halo just happens to use another name elsewhere. I think there was an innocuous reason for it like a decade ago, but she has been Halo here for many, many years.
-
Ok..now we know the truth....
https://news.sky.com/story/russian-foreign-minister-sergey-lavrov-says-britain-could-have-poisoned-spy-11313772 (https://news.sky.com/story/russian-foreign-minister-sergey-lavrov-says-britain-could-have-poisoned-spy-11313772)
''Britain did it to divert attention from the government's failure to deliver on 'brexit...' ''
President Putin is visiting Turkey and today with Ertogan they gave an interview. Putin was asked to comment regarding the poisoning affair about the Scripals, he said:
"Referring to the poisoning of former double agent Sergei Scripal and his daughter Giulia in Salsbury, UK a month ago, he argued that there are about 20 countries around the world where neuroparathylates can be manufactured worldwide. He also noted that the head of Doctor Down, the British Army's research laboratory, said he was not in a position to prove where the chemical agent with which Scribal was poisoned was being prepared.
The Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta posted on the case of Scrippal: The poisonous substance has been in circulation since the 1990s
tiphat
-
President Putin is visiting Turkey and today with Ertogan they gave an interview. Putin was asked to comment regarding the poisoning affair about the Scripals, he said:
"Referring to the poisoning of former double agent Sergei Scripal and his daughter Giulia in Salsbury, UK a month ago, he argued that there are about 20 countries around the world where neuroparathylates can be manufactured worldwide. He also noted that the head of Doctor Down, the British Army's research laboratory, said he was not in a position to prove where the chemical agent with which Scribal was poisoned was being prepared.
The Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta posted on the case of Scrippal: The poisonous substance has been in circulation since the 1990s
tiphat
Wiz,
1/ In most normal nations military grade nerve agents don't tend to fall into the hands of folks outside the national security services
2/ The PORTON Down person - Gary Aitkenhead - said "It is our job to provide the scientific evidence of what this particular nerve agent is, we identified that it is from this particular family and that it is a military grade, but it is not our job to say where it was manufactured."
https://tinyurl.com/wiz-and-VVP-misquote (https://tinyurl.com/wiz-and-VVP-misquote)
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Oh it gets even better than that,
Dutch MSM headlines: Doubt whether the poison was actually Novichok!
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Oh it gets even better than that,
Dutch MSM headlines: Doubt whether the poison was actually Novichok!
Theresa May and company will be eating crow shortly. U.K. will get yet another black eye for promoting yellow journalism which could lead to war. :coffeeread:
-
Jerash, when referring to the views of Russians, it is worth noting that 'Halo' is not Russian and has, in the past, displayed a significant degree of antipathy toward those who live in Russia, or who consider themselves to be Russian. The person behind the Halo avatar is not stupid but does seem to have a rather closed mind.
She fits the description of someone on the other forum.
Indeed, people often change name between fora.
I recall back when I got online over 20 years ago and a chat forum that started friendly later degenerated into name calling and rumor mongering. One male avatar was accused of creating a female avatar and just trolling around. Several people used IP tracking to tie the two avatars to each other. The male avatar denied being the other "personality" and then vanished. There are people with schizoid issues and ADHD on the internet. And there are tons of lonely people who have nothing else to do. There are plenty of online reviews, but an estimate indicated that probably 3/4 of them are fakes. There was this guy on TV news item whose name was used on two online reviews that he said that he never used either merchant. His photo was copied and posted on the reviews. :sick0012: :D
In this case though, Halo just happens to use another name elsewhere. I think there was an innocuous reason for it like a decade ago, but she has been Halo here for many, many years.
Does she adopt different writing styles, depending on the forum?
-
Oh it gets even better than that,
Dutch MSM headlines: Doubt whether the poison was actually Novichok!
Finally, some of this crap is starting to bubble to the surface. Thanks guys for the update! I swore off news as my New Year's Resolution (April 1st), so the only way for me to be informed is through other means.
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It is somewhat amusing to see grown men who have been put down...and so often, correctly so...by Halo.
There is so much guff written about life in Russia and what Russians think by folks who do not go there... 'protesting' about visa regulations.
FACT ..when one is afraid to speak one's mind about one's country...what is wrong about it...Or one is encouraged to vote...lest the numbers look too low.....because folks really couldn't be arsed... one has to wonder about the agenda of sycophants who by their posts have Russians shaking their heads in disbelief.
I do not always agree with Halo.. but only a fool would dismiss her knowledge / opinion, so lightly.
There are some not so good things about Russia, and I have heard stories and know people too, Moby. How is it, you only meet anti-government Russians? I am in Moscow, the most fertile ground for the opposition. I'm working among the educated classes, yet I meet all sorts. They aren't afraid to speak their mind either.
Do you reject the validity of the views of all the people who did vote for Putin? His margin and the election result has not been called into question, at least not by anyone serious. I'm sure Navalny (who's he again?) has, but.... What happened to his great protest that was supposed to ensue after the election? Never heard a word or saw a thing....
In fact, haven't heard much about him lately. I guess his State Department money has dried up for now.
-
It is somewhat amusing to see grown men who have been put down...and so often, correctly so...by Halo.
There is so much guff written about life in Russia and what Russians think by folks who do not go there... 'protesting' about visa regulations.
FACT ..when one is afraid to speak one's mind about one's country...what is wrong about it...Or one is encouraged to vote...lest the numbers look too low.....because folks really couldn't be arsed... one has to wonder about the agenda of sycophants who by their posts have Russians shaking their heads in disbelief.
I do not always agree with Halo.. but only a fool would dismiss her knowledge / opinion, so lightly.
There are some not so good things about Russia, and I have heard stories and know people too, Moby. How is it, you only meet anti-government Russians? I am in Moscow, the most fertile ground for the opposition. I'm working among the educated classes, yet I meet all sorts. They aren't afraid to speak their mind either.
Do you reject the validity of the views of all the people who did vote for Putin? His margin and the election result has not been called into question, at least not by anyone serious. I'm sure Navalny (who's he again?) has, but.... What happened to his great protest that was supposed to ensue after the election? Never heard a word or saw a thing....
In fact, haven't heard much about him lately. I guess his State Department money has dried up for now.
Radio 2 today said the agent was novichok but were unable to ascertain where it came from.
WRT to Putin none of my better half's family voted for him (but they are educated people) and he seemed to have garnered more votes than the number of people who voted, bit like Crimea.
-
It is somewhat amusing to see grown men who have been put down...and so often, correctly so...by Halo.
There is so much guff written about life in Russia and what Russians think by folks who do not go there... 'protesting' about visa regulations.
FACT ..when one is afraid to speak one's mind about one's country...what is wrong about it...Or one is encouraged to vote...lest the numbers look too low.....because folks really couldn't be arsed... one has to wonder about the agenda of sycophants who by their posts have Russians shaking their heads in disbelief.
I do not always agree with Halo.. but only a fool would dismiss her knowledge / opinion, so lightly.
There are some not so good things about Russia, and I have heard stories and know people too, Moby. How is it, you only meet anti-government Russians? I am in Moscow, the most fertile ground for the opposition. I'm working among the educated classes, yet I meet all sorts. They aren't afraid to speak their mind either.
Do you reject the validity of the views of all the people who did vote for Putin? His margin and the election result has not been called into question, at least not by anyone serious. I'm sure Navalny (who's he again?) has, but.... What happened to his great protest that was supposed to ensue after the election? Never heard a word or saw a thing....
In fact, haven't heard much about him lately. I guess his State Department money has dried up for now.
Radio 2 today said the agent was novichok but were unable to ascertain where it came from.
WRT to Putin none of my better half's family voted for him (but they are educated people) and he seemed to have garnered more votes than the number of people who voted, bit like Crimea.
Strange, the vote was closely monitored, even poll station cameras streaming to internet (which some of my students actually watched). I doubt there's there's the discrepancy you suggest. I never checked out the Crimea results, but I can only imagine. It would have been a waste of resources to try to commit voter fraud there, what with the vast support for the improvements that have taken place there since Russia lifted off the second class citizen status.
And, please, define Novichok. You know, scientifically.
-
It is somewhat amusing to see grown men who have been put down...and so often, correctly so...by Halo.
There is so much guff written about life in Russia and what Russians think by folks who do not go there... 'protesting' about visa regulations.
FACT ..when one is afraid to speak one's mind about one's country...what is wrong about it...Or one is encouraged to vote...lest the numbers look too low.....because folks really couldn't be arsed... one has to wonder about the agenda of sycophants who by their posts have Russians shaking their heads in disbelief.
I do not always agree with Halo.. but only a fool would dismiss her knowledge / opinion, so lightly.
There are some not so good things about Russia, and I have heard stories and know people too, Moby. How is it, you only meet anti-government Russians? I am in Moscow, the most fertile ground for the opposition. I'm working among the educated classes, yet I meet all sorts. They aren't afraid to speak their mind either.
Do you reject the validity of the views of all the people who did vote for Putin? His margin and the election result has not been called into question, at least not by anyone serious. I'm sure Navalny (who's he again?) has, but.... What happened to his great protest that was supposed to ensue after the election? Never heard a word or saw a thing....
In fact, haven't heard much about him lately. I guess his State Department money has dried up for now.
Radio 2 today said the agent was novichok but were unable to ascertain where it came from.
WRT to Putin none of my better half's family voted for him (but they are educated people) and he seemed to have garnered more votes than the number of people who voted, bit like Crimea.
Strange, the vote was closely monitored, even poll station cameras streaming to internet (which some of my students actually watched). I doubt there's there's the discrepancy you suggest. I never checked out the Crimea results, but I can only imagine. It would have been a waste of resources to try to commit voter fraud there, what with the vast support for the improvements that have taken place there since Russia lifted off the second class citizen status.
And, please, define Novichok. You know, scientifically.
I saw a vid of the same person voting several times - was on BBC tho - which is either left or right or zionist. WRT to novichok I've no idea, R2 was relaying what OPWC or whatever it's called had found.
Overall I'd tend to lean toward BBC/UK over RT/RU wrt to getting near the truth, but on the whole I take my feed from people I know if possible. Which is Nadia's Russian family, and not one of them supports Putin, seems to me (anecdotally) that those that do are lower-class thicko's wanting SU back....
-
And, please, define Novichok. You know, scientifically.
It's been a while since my Organic Chemistry class, but the nerve agent is described as such:
These all feature the classical organophosphorus core (sometimes with the P=O replaced with P=S or P=Se), which is most commonly depicted as being a phosphoramidate or phosphonate, usually fluorinated (cf. monofluorophosphate).
The chemical blocks the breakdown of Acetylcholine (chemical used in nerve conduction transmissions) which then builds up and results in involuntary contractions in your nervous system which further leads to cardiac and respiratory seizures.
Many chemicals have similar atomic structures except that alkyl substitutions are used. As long as the chemical bonds and electrons of the chemical interact with substances in your body, it can create a chain reaction inside of you. Such as triple bonded C=N (cyanide) that will grab any available electrons inside your body.
The binding of cyanide to this enzyme prevents transport of electrons from cytochrome c to oxygen. As a result, the electron transport chain is disrupted, meaning that the cell can no longer aerobically produce ATP for energy. Tissues that depend highly on aerobic respiration, such as the central nervous system and the heart, are particularly affected.
:GRAVE:
Note that monofluorophosphate is a common ingredient in toothpaste. :innocent:
-
It is somewhat amusing to see grown men who have been put down...and so often, correctly so...by Halo.
There is so much guff written about life in Russia and what Russians think by folks who do not go there... 'protesting' about visa regulations.
FACT ..when one is afraid to speak one's mind about one's country...what is wrong about it...Or one is encouraged to vote...lest the numbers look too low.....because folks really couldn't be arsed... one has to wonder about the agenda of sycophants who by their posts have Russians shaking their heads in disbelief.
I do not always agree with Halo.. but only a fool would dismiss her knowledge / opinion, so lightly.
There are some not so good things about Russia, and I have heard stories and know people too, Moby. How is it, you only meet anti-government Russians? I am in Moscow, the most fertile ground for the opposition. I'm working among the educated classes, yet I meet all sorts. They aren't afraid to speak their mind either.
Do you reject the validity of the views of all the people who did vote for Putin? His margin and the election result has not been called into question, at least not by anyone serious. I'm sure Navalny (who's he again?) has, but.... What happened to his great protest that was supposed to ensue after the election? Never heard a word or saw a thing....
In fact, haven't heard much about him lately. I guess his State Department money has dried up for now.
Radio 2 today said the agent was novichok but were unable to ascertain where it came from.
WRT to Putin none of my better half's family voted for him (but they are educated people) and he seemed to have garnered more votes than the number of people who voted, bit like Crimea.
Strange, the vote was closely monitored, even poll station cameras streaming to internet (which some of my students actually watched). I doubt there's there's the discrepancy you suggest. I never checked out the Crimea results, but I can only imagine. It would have been a waste of resources to try to commit voter fraud there, what with the vast support for the improvements that have taken place there since Russia lifted off the second class citizen status.
And, please, define Novichok. You know, scientifically.
I saw a vid of the same person voting several times - was on BBC tho - which is either left or right or zionist. WRT to novichok I've no idea, R2 was relaying what OPWC or whatever it's called had found.
Overall I'd tend to lean toward BBC/UK over RT/RU wrt to getting near the truth, but on the whole I take my feed from people I know if possible. Which is Nadia's Russian family, and not one of them supports Putin, seems to me (anecdotally) that those that do are lower-class thicko's wanting SU back....
I recall that "Novichok" was first used by the British government, before OPWC was called in and just as the police had started their investigation.
You saw the vid of the person voting several times because Russia has opened up their elections and made it more transparent than most. That doesn't mean it's perfect. But any mass voter fraud would all be on camera for all to see.
As for getting at the truth, I'd say all media sources are about the same if you come into it with an independent mind. They all lie. The main reason that RT is constantly called the liar while no one else is, is because they provide a completely foreign perspective and give angles that you will never get in the bought out Western Media. I don't rely on one (or I should say, didn't) source. If you have an independent mind, you can read all.
It's good you have a few people in the UK to give you some perspective. I am in contact with quite a few people in Moscow, all from the educated classes. Some of them voted against Putin and some of them voted for. None of them are neanderthals, uninformed, or whatever you would prefer to think of Putin supporters as. I'm sure there are those too - can you name one government that didn't get into power without support from the everyday common man (oh sorry, I should have said, lower-class thickos)? You are building your own truth, my friend....
-
And, please, define Novichok. You know, scientifically.
It's been a while since my Organic Chemistry class, but the nerve agent is described as such:
These all feature the classical organophosphorus core (sometimes with the P=O replaced with P=S or P=Se), which is most commonly depicted as being a phosphoramidate or phosphonate, usually fluorinated (cf. monofluorophosphate).
The chemical blocks the breakdown of Acetylcholine (chemical used in nerve conduction transmissions) which then builds up and results in involuntary contractions in your nervous system which further leads to cardiac and respiratory seizures.
Many chemicals have similar atomic structures except that alkyl substitutions are used. As long as the chemical bonds and electrons of the chemical interact with substances in your body, it can create a chain reaction inside of you. Such as triple bonded C=N (cyanide) that will grab any available electrons inside your body.
The binding of cyanide to this enzyme prevents transport of electrons from cytochrome c to oxygen. As a result, the electron transport chain is disrupted, meaning that the cell can no longer aerobically produce ATP for energy. Tissues that depend highly on aerobic respiration, such as the central nervous system and the heart, are particularly affected.
:GRAVE:
Note that monofluorophosphate is a common ingredient in toothpaste. :innocent:
And the patients are strangely not dead....
-
It is somewhat amusing to see grown men who have been put down...and so often, correctly so...by Halo.
There is so much guff written about life in Russia and what Russians think by folks who do not go there... 'protesting' about visa regulations.
FACT ..when one is afraid to speak one's mind about one's country...what is wrong about it...Or one is encouraged to vote...lest the numbers look too low.....because folks really couldn't be arsed... one has to wonder about the agenda of sycophants who by their posts have Russians shaking their heads in disbelief.
I do not always agree with Halo.. but only a fool would dismiss her knowledge / opinion, so lightly.
There are some not so good things about Russia, and I have heard stories and know people too, Moby. How is it, you only meet anti-government Russians? I am in Moscow, the most fertile ground for the opposition. I'm working among the educated classes, yet I meet all sorts. They aren't afraid to speak their mind either.
Do you reject the validity of the views of all the people who did vote for Putin? His margin and the election result has not been called into question, at least not by anyone serious. I'm sure Navalny (who's he again?) has, but.... What happened to his great protest that was supposed to ensue after the election? Never heard a word or saw a thing....
In fact, haven't heard much about him lately. I guess his State Department money has dried up for now.
Radio 2 today said the agent was novichok but were unable to ascertain where it came from.
WRT to Putin none of my better half's family voted for him (but they are educated people) and he seemed to have garnered more votes than the number of people who voted, bit like Crimea.
Strange, the vote was closely monitored, even poll station cameras streaming to internet (which some of my students actually watched). I doubt there's there's the discrepancy you suggest. I never checked out the Crimea results, but I can only imagine. It would have been a waste of resources to try to commit voter fraud there, what with the vast support for the improvements that have taken place there since Russia lifted off the second class citizen status.
And, please, define Novichok. You know, scientifically.
I saw a vid of the same person voting several times - was on BBC tho - which is either left or right or zionist. WRT to novichok I've no idea, R2 was relaying what OPWC or whatever it's called had found.
Overall I'd tend to lean toward BBC/UK over RT/RU wrt to getting near the truth, but on the whole I take my feed from people I know if possible. Which is Nadia's Russian family, and not one of them supports Putin, seems to me (anecdotally) that those that do are lower-class thicko's wanting SU back....
I recall that "Novichok" was first used by the British government, before OPWC was called in and just as the police had started their investigation.
You saw the vid of the person voting several times because Russia has opened up their elections and made it more transparent than most. That doesn't mean it's perfect. But any mass voter fraud would all be on camera for all to see.
As for getting at the truth, I'd say all media sources are about the same if you come into it with an independent mind. They all lie. The main reason that RT is constantly called the liar while no one else is, is because they provide a completely foreign perspective and give angles that you will never get in the bought out Western Media. I don't rely on one (or I should say, didn't) source. If you have an independent mind, you can read all.
It's good you have a few people in the UK to give you some perspective. I am in contact with quite a few people in Moscow, all from the educated classes. Some of them voted against Putin and some of them voted for. None of them are neanderthals, uninformed, or whatever you would prefer to think of Putin supporters as. I'm sure there are those too - can you name one government that didn't get into power without support from the everyday common man (oh sorry, I should have said, lower-class thickos)? You are building your own truth, my friend....
I should add that a lot of the people I have talked to who voted for or may have voted for Putin, have quite complex reasons for doing so. Something you and your expat friends would never really understand since you won't have to bear the consequences of a bad electoral decision in Russia.
-
And, please, define Novichok. You know, scientifically.
It's been a while since my Organic Chemistry class, but the nerve agent is described as such:
These all feature the classical organophosphorus core (sometimes with the P=O replaced with P=S or P=Se), which is most commonly depicted as being a phosphoramidate or phosphonate, usually fluorinated (cf. monofluorophosphate).
The chemical blocks the breakdown of Acetylcholine (chemical used in nerve conduction transmissions) which then builds up and results in involuntary contractions in your nervous system which further leads to cardiac and respiratory seizures.
Many chemicals have similar atomic structures except that alkyl substitutions are used. As long as the chemical bonds and electrons of the chemical interact with substances in your body, it can create a chain reaction inside of you. Such as triple bonded C=N (cyanide) that will grab any available electrons inside your body.
The binding of cyanide to this enzyme prevents transport of electrons from cytochrome c to oxygen. As a result, the electron transport chain is disrupted, meaning that the cell can no longer aerobically produce ATP for energy. Tissues that depend highly on aerobic respiration, such as the central nervous system and the heart, are particularly affected.
:GRAVE:
Note that monofluorophosphate is a common ingredient in toothpaste. :innocent:
And the patients are strangely not dead....
It depends on how much was ingested into your body. Here is an example quite a few years ago.
Their effect on humans was demonstrated by the accidental exposure of Andrei Zheleznyakov, one of the scientists involved in their development, to the residue of an unspecified Novichok agent while working in a Moscow laboratory in May 1987. He was critically injured and took ten days to recover consciousness after the incident. He lost the ability to walk and was treated at a secret clinic in Leningrad for three months afterwards. The agent caused permanent harm, with effects that included "chronic weakness in his arms, a toxic hepatitis that gave rise to cirrhosis of the liver, epilepsy, spells of severe depression, and an inability to read or concentrate that left him totally disabled and unable to work." He never recovered and died in July 1992 after five years of deteriorating health.
So it took five years to die in this example.
-
First he was smeared, but now that the truth is coming out, he's still waiting for apologies
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/
-
It is somewhat amusing to see grown men who have been put down...and so often, correctly so...by Halo.
There is so much guff written about life in Russia and what Russians think by folks who do not go there... 'protesting' about visa regulations.
FACT ..when one is afraid to speak one's mind about one's country...what is wrong about it...Or one is encouraged to vote...lest the numbers look too low.....because folks really couldn't be arsed... one has to wonder about the agenda of sycophants who by their posts have Russians shaking their heads in disbelief.
I do not always agree with Halo.. but only a fool would dismiss her knowledge / opinion, so lightly.
There are some not so good things about Russia, and I have heard stories and know people too, Moby. How is it, you only meet anti-government Russians? I am in Moscow, the most fertile ground for the opposition. I'm working among the educated classes, yet I meet all sorts. They aren't afraid to speak their mind either.
Do you reject the validity of the views of all the people who did vote for Putin? His margin and the election result has not been called into question, at least not by anyone serious. I'm sure Navalny (who's he again?) has, but.... What happened to his great protest that was supposed to ensue after the election? Never heard a word or saw a thing....
In fact, haven't heard much about him lately. I guess his State Department money has dried up for now.
You finally got something right, bravo!
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First he was smeared, but now that the truth is coming out, he's still waiting for apologies
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/
Those who were thinking with their clits may want to read that link very carefully. :laugh:
Besides the fact that the (((warmongers))) continue to engage in clever #falseflags in yet more nefarious attempts to start a war.
e. My FCO source, like me, remembers the extreme pressure put on FCO staff and other civil servants to sign off the dirty dossier on Iraqi WMD, some of which pressure I recount in my memoir Murder in Samarkand. She volunteered the comparison to what is happening now, particularly at Porton Down, with no prompting from me.
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There are some not so good things about Russia, and I have heard stories and know people too, Moby. How is it, you only meet anti-government Russians?
As you WELL know, I meet / see my fair share of patriots... who might suggest I am brainwashed by western media....))
By 'anti-govt' do you mean people who want to see an end to cronyism and corruption at the highest level?
Do you disagree with what I posted about the measures used to get folks to vote? Do you think I am making it up?
Do you believe the result and turnouts are genuine?
I am in Moscow, the most fertile ground for the opposition. I'm working among the educated classes, yet I meet all sorts. They aren't afraid to speak their mind either.
Do you reject the validity of the views of all the people who did vote for Putin? His margin and the election result has not been called into question, at least not by anyone serious. I'm sure Navalny (who's he again?) has, but.... What happened to his great protest that was supposed to ensue after the election? Never heard a word or saw a thing....
They are and were called into question, but I will happily concede VVP won from the candidates allowed to stand. I certainly question the turnout.
In fact, haven't heard much about him lately. I guess his State Department money has dried up for now.
I am quite sure Navaly receives funding from those seeking to change the leadership, in the same way that the UK and Soviets tried to sponsor opposition throughout the last 100 plus years.
I certainly do not condone these games, nor using ..according to the ECHR using political means to remove opposition candidates from running.
That you heard or hear nothing about the likes of Nalvalny... This is what is intended, perhaps.
Which of us would you say was more objective?
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I am seeing so much nonsense written about Halo..just because she knows more than most on here about Ukraine / Russian / Soviet historical facts than most of us...Many of whom do not even go to the places they profess to be experts about...
I asked her if it was OK to point out that her other half's family were RUSSIAN and would be well known, in Russia ...not in an negative aspect by most.
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As for getting at the truth, I'd say all media sources are about the same if you come into it with an independent mind. They all lie. The main reason that RT is constantly called the liar while no one else is, is because they provide a completely foreign perspective and give angles that you will never get in the bought out Western Media. I don't rely on one (or I should say, didn't) source. If you have an independent mind, you can read all.
Hardly the wisest post given RT are owned and run by the RU govt and their history of 'accuracy' of reporting on Crimea, MH17 or a host of subjects has been demonstrably risible.
It's good you have a few people in the UK to give you some perspective. I am in contact with quite a few people in Moscow, all from the educated classes. Some of them voted against Putin and some of them voted for. None of them are neanderthals, uninformed, or whatever you would prefer to think of Putin supporters as. I'm sure there are those too - can you name one government that didn't get into power without support from the everyday common man (oh sorry, I should have said, lower-class thickos)? You are building your own truth, my friend....
Jerash, would you say you know more about Russia than me or say Mendy? We have spent more time there than you...just in case you thought you were building a case ' that only you could know...'
I should add that a lot of the people I have talked to who voted for or may have voted for Putin, have quite complex reasons for doing so. Something you and your expat friends would never really understand since you won't have to bear the consequences of a bad electoral decision in Russia.
Given that the choices of candidate were limited, I fail to see your point.
Many Russians just couldn't be bothered to vote, believing they can change nothing.
THAT is why the state had to get it's civil servants to be 'encouraged'
Your truth and that of Ste's... I think I made my mind up..
Did you not see the usual stuffing of ballot papers in some polling stations on ghe video feeds you mention?
Now, either this is fake news or an act by a misguided public servant.
In the meantime, I thought it might be wise to apply for my next visa under my Irish passport...but then Ireland has also come out and said they believe the Kremlin is connected. ( That is REALLY something given IRL's long neutrality)
Think I might have to become Cypriot...
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It is somewhat amusing to see grown men who have been put down...and so often, correctly so...by Halo.
There is so much guff written about life in Russia and what Russians think by folks who do not go there... 'protesting' about visa regulations.
FACT ..when one is afraid to speak one's mind about one's country...what is wrong about it...Or one is encouraged to vote...lest the numbers look too low.....because folks really couldn't be arsed... one has to wonder about the agenda of sycophants who by their posts have Russians shaking their heads in disbelief.
I do not always agree with Halo.. but only a fool would dismiss her knowledge / opinion, so lightly.
There are some not so good things about Russia, and I have heard stories and know people too, Moby. How is it, you only meet anti-government Russians? I am in Moscow, the most fertile ground for the opposition. I'm working among the educated classes, yet I meet all sorts. They aren't afraid to speak their mind either.
Do you reject the validity of the views of all the people who did vote for Putin? His margin and the election result has not been called into question, at least not by anyone serious. I'm sure Navalny (who's he again?) has, but.... What happened to his great protest that was supposed to ensue after the election? Never heard a word or saw a thing....
In fact, haven't heard much about him lately. I guess his State Department money has dried up for now.
Radio 2 today said the agent was novichok but were unable to ascertain where it came from.
WRT to Putin none of my better half's family voted for him (but they are educated people) and he seemed to have garnered more votes than the number of people who voted, bit like Crimea.
Strange, the vote was closely monitored, even poll station cameras streaming to internet (which some of my students actually watched). I doubt there's there's the discrepancy you suggest. I never checked out the Crimea results, but I can only imagine. It would have been a waste of resources to try to commit voter fraud there, what with the vast support for the improvements that have taken place there since Russia lifted off the second class citizen status.
And, please, define Novichok. You know, scientifically.
I saw a vid of the same person voting several times - was on BBC tho - which is either left or right or zionist. WRT to novichok I've no idea, R2 was relaying what OPWC or whatever it's called had found.
Overall I'd tend to lean toward BBC/UK over RT/RU wrt to getting near the truth, but on the whole I take my feed from people I know if possible. Which is Nadia's Russian family, and not one of them supports Putin, seems to me (anecdotally) that those that do are lower-class thicko's wanting SU back....
I recall that "Novichok" was first used by the British government, before OPWC was called in and just as the police had started their investigation.
You saw the vid of the person voting several times because Russia has opened up their elections and made it more transparent than most. That doesn't mean it's perfect. But any mass voter fraud would all be on camera for all to see.
As for getting at the truth, I'd say all media sources are about the same if you come into it with an independent mind. They all lie. The main reason that RT is constantly called the liar while no one else is, is because they provide a completely foreign perspective and give angles that you will never get in the bought out Western Media. I don't rely on one (or I should say, didn't) source. If you have an independent mind, you can read all.
It's good you have a few people in the UK to give you some perspective. I am in contact with quite a few people in Moscow, all from the educated classes. Some of them voted against Putin and some of them voted for. None of them are neanderthals, uninformed, or whatever you would prefer to think of Putin supporters as. I'm sure there are those too - can you name one government that didn't get into power without support from the everyday common man (oh sorry, I should have said, lower-class thickos)? You are building your own truth, my friend....
And there are lots of others...
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Every polling station in Russia was set up with live webcam feeds. Whenever fraudulent activity was spotted the results from that location were set aside.
While you use the word 'lots' that's not really true however the opportunity to see these, as you have been able to do, came about as a result of the desire to reduce electoral fraud. These recordings provide the clear evidence of any attempts and they are publically available. I doubt that many people bothered uploading thousands and thousands of hours of problem-free electoral conduct - no story there. :)
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Every polling station in Russia was set up with live webcam feeds. Whenever fraudulent activity was spotted the results from that location were set aside.
While you use the word 'lots' that's not really true however the opportunity to see these, as you have been able to do, came about as a result of the desire to reduce electoral fraud. These recordings provide the clear evidence of any attempts and they are publically available. I doubt that many people bothered uploading thousands and thousands of hours of problem-free electoral conduct - no story there. :)
Not only that, but when the video shows less than 10 ballots for 1 person, they even comply with Dutch law. 1 person can be authorized by 9 other people to vote. So unless you know if the passports with all submitted ballots match (not visible on video) this is a non-story.
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Markje, so, what you are saying, if I understand correctly, is that one person can vote for ten people as long as ten passports are shown to identify the ballots?
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Markje, so, what you are saying, if I understand correctly, is that one person can vote for ten people as long as ten passports are shown to identify the ballots?
Valid passports yes. (Valid means it has not expired more than 5 years so for a 2018-election any passport valid until 2013 will do). And yes, a revocation list for stolen/lost passports is also checked.
I usually vote for myself + wife, because then only 1 person has to leave the house. She notes her vote for me (either vocal or written), and with her caller-signature + passport in my possession i can cast her vote on the official ballot.
The restrictions are:
- You must have all the original passport of all votes you will cast. (your own is also mandatory)
- You must cast all votes in 1 go (so you can't come back later to vote some more)
- No more than 10 for 1 person
- You must also have the original call-to-vote card with the signature already filled in and match to the signature on passport.
Theres 1 more, but I cant recall that one now.
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Now this is embarrassing.
https://news.sky.com/story/foreign-office-deletes-tweet-claiming-salisbury-nerve-agent-made-in-russia-11316445
The foreign office has deleted a tweet saying;
“Analysis by world leading experts at the defence science and technology laboratory at Porton Down made clear that this was a military grade novichok nerve agent produced in Russia.”
So we’ve been lied to by our own government. Heads need to roll for this, starting with Boris who assured us PD were absolutely sure it was Russia, only a day after the event.
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One thing of which I am certain: Russian social media influencers are going to be very busy with both the Boris Johnson and Foreign Office lies.
Even if the British news/entertainment media stays schtum about it, by tomorrow anyone who uses Facebook will know all about the British government's mendacity.
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I am seeing so much nonsense written about Halo..just because she knows more than most on here about Ukraine / Russian / Soviet historical facts than most of us...Many of whom do not even go to the places they profess to be experts about...
So what's the excuse for her behaviour on other matters, not related to her unrivalled knowledge on everything Russian? In my experience this is how she debates but it is somewhat ironic she has sympathy from you mate.
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....and not one of them supports Putin, seems to me (anecdotally) that those that do are lower-class thicko's wanting SU back....
Straight out the smug liberal handbook of blame. If you disagree with our politics, then you are thick.
So most Russians are thick?
:prophead:
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People wanting a return to Soviet times would be very unlikely to choose Putin as their agent of retrogression.
The Communists are nearest to the mark on that issue but very few people voted that way. Whether intelligent or not, most Russian people voted for a Putinesque future.
But Ste knows that and is just trolling.
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Now this is embarrassing.
https://news.sky.com/story/foreign-office-deletes-tweet-claiming-salisbury-nerve-agent-made-in-russia-11316445
The foreign office has deleted a tweet saying;
“Analysis by world leading experts at the defence science and technology laboratory at Porton Down made clear that this was a military grade novichok nerve agent produced in Russia.”
So we’ve been lied to by our own government. Heads need to roll for this, starting with Boris who assured us PD were absolutely sure it was Russia, only a day after the event.
Both Boris and May need to go. They had decided it was Russia almost before it had happened, had a bunch of countries on stand by to export diplomats and still there is no proof that nobody was even ill. The daughter who has now "recovered" was on her vk while she was supposedly at deaths door in hospital. First it was in Zizzi (shit food there anyway), then in a car, then on a front door? It's all a load of bollox. Remember Litvinenko? His mug plastered all over the papers in hospital - but not this bloke. Not ONE photo. Coz he aint there! The story has more holes than swiss cheese.
If Russia wanted to bump this bloke off they could have done it while he was in Russia in jail.
The story has only gained traction due to our bent fake news media and Moby/Ste Russia-bashing types on social media.
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The story has more holes than swiss cheese.
If Russia wanted to bump this bloke off they could have done it while he was in Russia in jail.
The story has only gained traction due to our bent fake news media and Moby/Ste Russia-bashing types on social media.
Are you really telling us that Moby is spreading fake news?
It must be true as he said that now he is thinking of applying with his irish Passport for visa.... or may apply to become Cyprus Citizen
Moby
Who has been misquoting ?
https://news.sky.com/story/foreign-office-deletes-tweet-claiming-salisbury-nerve-agent-made-in-russia-11316445
Watch the video very carefully........and shut your gob with your porkies..
I see it's getting a bit dangerous using the 2 British passports for your errants.
Back where you started....... your Russian adventures...... Cyprus!
:smokin:
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I am seeing so much nonsense written about Halo..just because she knows more than most on here about Ukraine / Russian / Soviet historical facts than most of us...Many of whom do not even go to the places they profess to be experts about...
So what's the excuse for her behaviour on other matters, not related to her unrivalled knowledge on everything Russian? In my experience this is how she debates but it is somewhat ironic she has sympathy from you mate.
I happen to know a Judo instructor placed Nationals in US, he knows Judo guys who travelled to Russia worked out at same gym as Putin, he says they say Putin got thrown hard, not once but allegedly twice by some young Russian stud....
Wank, wank, wank.....
See how entirely meaningless hearsay is?!! :'(
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Now this is embarrassing.
https://news.sky.com/story/foreign-office-deletes-tweet-claiming-salisbury-nerve-agent-made-in-russia-11316445
The foreign office has deleted a tweet saying;
“Analysis by world leading experts at the defence science and technology laboratory at Porton Down made clear that this was a military grade novichok nerve agent produced in Russia.”
So we’ve been lied to by our own government. Heads need to roll for this, starting with Boris who assured us PD were absolutely sure it was Russia, only a day after the event.
Mark and I posted about this upthread.
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I am seeing so much nonsense written about Halo..just because she knows more than most on here about Ukraine / Russian / Soviet historical facts than most of us...Many of whom do not even go to the places they profess to be experts about...
So what's the excuse for her behaviour on other matters, not related to her unrivalled knowledge on everything Russian? In my experience this is how she debates but it is somewhat ironic she has sympathy from you mate.
I happen to know a Judo instructor placed Nationals in US, he knows Judo guys who travelled to Russia worked out at same gym as Putin, he says they say Putin got thrown hard, not once but allegedly twice by some young Russian stud....
Wank, wank, wank.....
See how entirely meaningless hearsay is?!! :'(
A basic knowledge of martial sports practiced in Russia and Ukraine would be helpful.
Judo is all but unknown in Russia.
Most likely Putin was practicing Sambo. Quite a different activity (sport).
But as Confederate notes hearsay has little relation to reality. But this reality cuts both ways.
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I am seeing so much nonsense written about Halo..just because she knows more than most on here about Ukraine / Russian / Soviet historical facts than most of us...Many of whom do not even go to the places they profess to be experts about...
So what's the excuse for her behaviour on other matters, not related to her unrivalled knowledge on everything Russian? In my experience this is how she debates but it is somewhat ironic she has sympathy from you mate.
I happen to know a Judo instructor placed Nationals in US, he knows Judo guys who travelled to Russia worked out at same gym as Putin, he says they say Putin got thrown hard, not once but allegedly twice by some young Russian stud....
Wank, wank, wank.....
See how entirely meaningless hearsay is?!! :'(
A basic knowledge of martial sports practiced in Russia and Ukraine would be helpful.
Judo is all but unknown in Russia.
Most likely Putin was practicing Sambo. Quite a different activity (sport).
But as Confederate notes hearsay has little relation to reality. But this reality cuts both ways.
Not sure if you’ve been drinking again or perhaps you need some coffee.
Putin has been practicing Judo for years and the sport is very popular in Russia.
https://www.rbth.com/sport/2016/08/18/how-judo-became-one-of-russias-main-olympic-sports_622155
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I am seeing so much nonsense written about Halo..just because she knows more than most on here about Ukraine / Russian / Soviet historical facts than most of us...Many of whom do not even go to the places they profess to be experts about...
So what's the excuse for her behaviour on other matters, not related to her unrivalled knowledge on everything Russian? In my experience this is how she debates but it is somewhat ironic she has sympathy from you mate.
I happen to know a Judo instructor placed Nationals in US, he knows Judo guys who travelled to Russia worked out at same gym as Putin, he says they say Putin got thrown hard, not once but allegedly twice by some young Russian stud....
Wank, wank, wank.....
See how entirely meaningless hearsay is?!! :'(
A basic knowledge of martial sports practiced in Russia and Ukraine would be helpful.
Judo is all but unknown in Russia.
Most likely Putin was practicing Sambo. Quite a different activity (sport).
But as Confederate notes hearsay has little relation to reality. But this reality cuts both ways.
Not sure if you’ve been drinking again or perhaps you need some coffee.
Putin has been practicing Judo for years and the sport is very popular in Russia.
https://www.rbth.com/sport/2016/08/18/how-judo-became-one-of-russias-main-olympic-sports_622155
Quite right regarding the sport.
As far as I can see Russia received three medals in Rio, including a gold (men & women). It seems the sport is little known in Ukraine. But the actual numbers practicing this is small.
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BOYS
You are :offtopic: :chuckle:
Obviously you run out of ideas despite the daily new revelations about the poisoning.
Manny was right .... Teresa and Boris have to go..... but.... have no shame or integrity to do it!
tiphat
PS: REad the first line of my signature!
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So what's the excuse for her behaviour on other matters, not related to her unrivalled knowledge on everything Russian? In my experience this is how she debates but it is somewhat ironic she has sympathy from you mate.
Surely, you still aren't referring to your misreading Halo's post re a perspective held by many Russians?
If so, you have had it explained more than once.
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Less than 24 hours since the news broke and we found out that our government has been "misleading" us on the Skripal incident, all is quiet on the western front.
Here's links to the BBC open and news page, as of 10.35 on 5th April. Not a thing.
https://www.bbc.co.uk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news
Now had I been occupied yesterday and only got caught up with the news today, the whole lie about Porton Down being absolutely sure that the Novichok was made in Russia and the government hurriedly deleting their tweets to cover their tracks, would have been completely beyond me.
Yes do some digging and you'll find an article hidden away but surely this is massive? Surely this development should be ringing about our streets and the press (if there are any good journalists left) should be piling the pressure on May & Co?
Sky news still have it on their home page albeit in small font, hidden at the foot.
:'(
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It is fun to note the way in which the various news/entertainment media are keeping quiet about, or misleading their consumers, in respect of the lies from the British government.
Just a thought here, and I think I have made a point in the past about other large-scale narrative lies such as the killing of the passengers in flight MH17, the mass murder of people in the trade union house in Odessa and other similar events.
The point is this: there is nothing to be gained from a discussion or argument about the minutuae of the narrative. We have been lied to and trying to tease out what might be true from a skein of untruths is to fall into the propaganda trap that has been set. We end up accepting the framing chosen for us by those seeking to influence us.
Rather than looking at these silly, inconsequential details, why not look at the bigger picture:
Why are we being lied to about the Skripal case and others?
Who is the beneficiary of those lies?
How are we being controlled and misled?
What can we do about the lies we are being told?
We don't need to know exactly what happened once we know we have been lied to!
Every calorie of energy that is spent on discussing those things that we already know are lies is a calorie that cannot be spent on sorting out the real problems we face.
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Are you living on a different planet, Avhdb???
I am seeing so much nonsense written about Halo..just because she knows more than most on here about Ukraine / Russian / Soviet historical facts than most of us...Many of whom do not even go to the places they profess to be experts about...
So what's the excuse for her behaviour on other matters, not related to her unrivalled knowledge on everything Russian? In my experience this is how she debates but it is somewhat ironic she has sympathy from you mate.
I happen to know a Judo instructor placed Nationals in US, he knows Judo guys who travelled to Russia worked out at same gym as Putin, he says they say Putin got thrown hard, not once but allegedly twice by some young Russian stud....
Wank, wank, wank.....
See how entirely meaningless hearsay is?!! :'(
A basic knowledge of martial sports practiced in Russia and Ukraine would be helpful.
Judo is all but unknown in Russia.
Most likely Putin was practicing Sambo. Quite a different activity (sport).
But as Confederate notes hearsay has little relation to reality. But this reality cuts both ways.
Not sure if you’ve been drinking again or perhaps you need some coffee.
Putin has been practicing Judo for years and the sport is very popular in Russia.
https://www.rbth.com/sport/2016/08/18/how-judo-became-one-of-russias-main-olympic-sports_622155
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Yulya Skripal has phoned her auntie in Russia. Both she and her dad are fine.
https://www.facebook.com/vadimo1977/videos/1804383392951103/
The call was made at about 12:30 Moscow time.
Victoria: Allo? (hello?)
Yulia: Hello! (then a garbled sentence) I've got your number, is this the best one to call?
Yulia: Hello?
Victoria: Hello?
Yulia: Hello, do you hear me?
Victoria: I do
Yulia: This is Yulia Skripal
Victoria: Oh Yul'ka… ! (tender, friendly for Yulia) Dear god this is you! I hear by your voice that this is you, but I can't get it! (her voice stumbles) is this, is this, were you given this phone, is that right?
Yulia: Yes, yes, yes
Victoria: Oh thank heavens…. Dear God… Yulyash (fond name), you are…. is everything ok with you?
Yulia: Everything is ok, all's well
Victoria: Look, if I am granted a visa tomorrow, I'll fly to see you on Monday. So, well
Yulia (interrupting, calmly): No-one will give you a visa, Vika
Victoria: Ah well… well, I was also thinking that. That's it. Whatever. Won't they, yes? Anyway, if I am given a visa I need you to say 'Yes' when you are asked if you wish to see me
Yulia: I think no, here the situation is now…we'll deal with it later
Victoria, at the same time: That's it, I know, yes, I know everything
Yulia: Later, yes, we better sort it all later. Everything is good, and then later we'll see what we see, we'll sort things as we get to them
Victoria: Is this your number?
Yulia: No, it's a temporary one
Victoria: Got it, ok
Yulia: In other words, everything is normal, we'll see it all later as we go along. You know what kind of situation is here.
Victoria: Me… I… I...
Yulia: Everything's fine
Victoria: Ok, yes, ok, ok
Yulia: Everything is fine, everything is solvable, everyone is getting better, everyone is alive
Victoria: Got you. Is papa all ok? Yulia?
Yulia (small pause): Everything is normal, he is resting now, sleeping, everyone's health is normal, no irreversible things happened
Yulia (continues): I am checking out soon. Everything's ok!
Viktoria: That's fine, kisses to you, Zaichik (little hare, a very tender word to address loved ones and dear family members) that's it, see you
Yulia: Yes, see you, bye.
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So what's the excuse for her behaviour on other matters, not related to her unrivalled knowledge on everything Russian? In my experience this is how she debates but it is somewhat ironic she has sympathy from you mate.
Surely, you still aren't referring to your misreading Halo's post re a perspective held by many Russians?
If so, you have had it explained more than once.
You’ve had a million things explained to you a million different ways yet here you are trolling as usual. :coffeeread:
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Well, it's all kicked off in the UK - with the PM stating on the evidence so far - the poison used was a Russian designed nerve agent - 'Novichok' ( New kind ?)
Did you listen to the comments and explanations of the Russian Ambassador at the emergency meeting (Yesterday) at the UN, of the Security Council, at the instigation of the UK?
Did you also listen to Mrs May statements at the Parliament and the questions asked by Corbyn?
If yes then, why Mrs May choose to accuse Russia and take measures against, without any credible evidence to prove her accusations and why she did not made an official request to Russia to examine the chemical findings of "Novichok" via the International organisation for Chemical Weapons ?
Anything to do with "Diversion" for her own political survival, because of Brexit ?
The UK isn't well-known for Maskirovka ( deception ) - nor bumping off / taking out opposition....
May I remind you of the Operation Flavius, a controversial military operation in which three members of the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) were shot dead by the British Special Air Service (SAS) in Gibraltar on 6 March 1988.
What about the UK air and drone strikes in Iraq and Syria?
https://dronewars.net/2017/08/30/new-foi-figures-on-uk-air-and-drone-strikes-in-iraq-and-syria/
Two sides of the coin:
UK.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43381880 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43381880)
Russia: https://www.rt.com/news/421126-lavrov-response-uk-skripal/ (https://www.rt.com/news/421126-lavrov-response-uk-skripal/)
I hardly think Mrs May is 'under pressure' to blame the Kremlin...
IF Moscow had jumped in and offered help - instead of the state run media talking about traitors 'not growing old' - they'd look a LOT less 'guilty'
Really? ... How long do you think she will survive with no majority in Parliaments?
Judge and Jury....Guilty verdict without providing any credible evidence! :'(
MOBY
Remember this old post......... of mine..... at the time you choose to ignore my comments and you replied to Andrew instead.
How do you feel now to have egg in your face from both, Andrew and Me?
Will you ever learn not to jump the gun...... I don't think so.... you enjoy the limelight and even
looking like a fool.... when the truth comes out!
Now start having a go at us, while the revelations continue coming out about Teresa and Boris, the idiots in the pack.
Boris is used to be a clown but I am waiting to see how Teresa May will react........."Russia is highly likely to be the culprit"! I am sure Corbyn and his mates..... having a huge laugh at her expense. :chuckle:
:P :laugh: :ROFL:
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So what's the excuse for her behaviour on other matters, not related to her unrivalled knowledge on everything Russian? In my experience this is how she debates but it is somewhat ironic she has sympathy from you mate.
Surely, you still aren't referring to your misreading Halo's post re a perspective held by many Russians?
If so, you have had it explained more than once.
You’ve had a million things explained to you a million different ways yet here you are trolling as usual. :coffeeread:
Nice one buddy. I ain’t engaging that and wasting honest time on it.
tiphat
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That Gib thing was odd, was an intention to blow up some members of the Anglian Regiment, generally accepted as the decent side of the British Army in NI by all accounts.
It was the Paras who caused all the bother, ud think they’d be the target, ruthless they where (Bloody Sunday).
Chap at last work served with the Anglian’s in NI, and he was actually Irish, though had English accent.
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Yulya Skripal has phoned her auntie in Russia. Both she and her dad are fine.
https://www.facebook.com/vadimo1977/videos/1804383392951103/
The call was made at about 12:30 Moscow time.
Victoria: Allo? (hello?)
Yulia: Hello! (then a garbled sentence) I've got your number, is this the best one to call?
Yulia: Hello?
Victoria: Hello?
Yulia: Hello, do you hear me?
Victoria: I do
Yulia: This is Yulia Skripal
Victoria: Oh Yul'ka… ! (tender, friendly for Yulia) Dear god this is you! I hear by your voice that this is you, but I can't get it! (her voice stumbles) is this, is this, were you given this phone, is that right?
Yulia: Yes, yes, yes
Victoria: Oh thank heavens…. Dear God… Yulyash (fond name), you are…. is everything ok with you?
Yulia: Everything is ok, all's well
Victoria: Look, if I am granted a visa tomorrow, I'll fly to see you on Monday. So, well
Yulia (interrupting, calmly): No-one will give you a visa, Vika
Victoria: Ah well… well, I was also thinking that. That's it. Whatever. Won't they, yes? Anyway, if I am given a visa I need you to say 'Yes' when you are asked if you wish to see me
Yulia: I think no, here the situation is now…we'll deal with it later
Victoria, at the same time: That's it, I know, yes, I know everything
Yulia: Later, yes, we better sort it all later. Everything is good, and then later we'll see what we see, we'll sort things as we get to them
Victoria: Is this your number?
Yulia: No, it's a temporary one
Victoria: Got it, ok
Yulia: In other words, everything is normal, we'll see it all later as we go along. You know what kind of situation is here.
Victoria: Me… I… I...
Yulia: Everything's fine
Victoria: Ok, yes, ok, ok
Yulia: Everything is fine, everything is solvable, everyone is getting better, everyone is alive
Victoria: Got you. Is papa all ok? Yulia?
Yulia (small pause): Everything is normal, he is resting now, sleeping, everyone's health is normal, no irreversible things happened
Yulia (continues): I am checking out soon. Everything's ok!
Viktoria: That's fine, kisses to you, Zaichik (little hare, a very tender word to address loved ones and dear family members) that's it, see you
Yulia: Yes, see you, bye.
I read that even Russian media is questioning the authenticity of the recording. We might have to suspend judgement for a little while yet on the veracity of this call and any associated “revelations”
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And, please, define Novichok. You know, scientifically.
It's been a while since my Organic Chemistry class, but the nerve agent is described as such:
These all feature the classical organophosphorus core (sometimes with the P=O replaced with P=S or P=Se), which is most commonly depicted as being a phosphoramidate or phosphonate, usually fluorinated (cf. monofluorophosphate).
The chemical blocks the breakdown of Acetylcholine (chemical used in nerve conduction transmissions) which then builds up and results in involuntary contractions in your nervous system which further leads to cardiac and respiratory seizures.
Many chemicals have similar atomic structures except that alkyl substitutions are used. As long as the chemical bonds and electrons of the chemical interact with substances in your body, it can create a chain reaction inside of you. Such as triple bonded C=N (cyanide) that will grab any available electrons inside your body.
The binding of cyanide to this enzyme prevents transport of electrons from cytochrome c to oxygen. As a result, the electron transport chain is disrupted, meaning that the cell can no longer aerobically produce ATP for energy. Tissues that depend highly on aerobic respiration, such as the central nervous system and the heart, are particularly affected.
:GRAVE:
Note that monofluorophosphate is a common ingredient in toothpaste. :innocent:
And the patients are strangely not dead....
It depends on how much was ingested into your body. Here is an example quite a few years ago.
Their effect on humans was demonstrated by the accidental exposure of Andrei Zheleznyakov, one of the scientists involved in their development, to the residue of an unspecified Novichok agent while working in a Moscow laboratory in May 1987. He was critically injured and took ten days to recover consciousness after the incident. He lost the ability to walk and was treated at a secret clinic in Leningrad for three months afterwards. The agent caused permanent harm, with effects that included "chronic weakness in his arms, a toxic hepatitis that gave rise to cirrhosis of the liver, epilepsy, spells of severe depression, and an inability to read or concentrate that left him totally disabled and unable to work." He never recovered and died in July 1992 after five years of deteriorating health.
So it took five years to die in this example.
Spasiba! Enlightening :)
.
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And, please, define Novichok. You know, scientifically.
It's been a while since my Organic Chemistry class, but the nerve agent is described as such:
These all feature the classical organophosphorus core (sometimes with the P=O replaced with P=S or P=Se), which is most commonly depicted as being a phosphoramidate or phosphonate, usually fluorinated (cf. monofluorophosphate).
The chemical blocks the breakdown of Acetylcholine (chemical used in nerve conduction transmissions) which then builds up and results in involuntary contractions in your nervous system which further leads to cardiac and respiratory seizures.
Many chemicals have similar atomic structures except that alkyl substitutions are used. As long as the chemical bonds and electrons of the chemical interact with substances in your body, it can create a chain reaction inside of you. Such as triple bonded C=N (cyanide) that will grab any available electrons inside your body.
The binding of cyanide to this enzyme prevents transport of electrons from cytochrome c to oxygen. As a result, the electron transport chain is disrupted, meaning that the cell can no longer aerobically produce ATP for energy. Tissues that depend highly on aerobic respiration, such as the central nervous system and the heart, are particularly affected.
:GRAVE:
Note that monofluorophosphate is a common ingredient in toothpaste. :innocent:
And the patients are strangely not dead....
It depends on how much was ingested into your body. Here is an example quite a few years ago.
Their effect on humans was demonstrated by the accidental exposure of Andrei Zheleznyakov, one of the scientists involved in their development, to the residue of an unspecified Novichok agent while working in a Moscow laboratory in May 1987. He was critically injured and took ten days to recover consciousness after the incident. He lost the ability to walk and was treated at a secret clinic in Leningrad for three months afterwards. The agent caused permanent harm, with effects that included "chronic weakness in his arms, a toxic hepatitis that gave rise to cirrhosis of the liver, epilepsy, spells of severe depression, and an inability to read or concentrate that left him totally disabled and unable to work." He never recovered and died in July 1992 after five years of deteriorating health.
So it took five years to die in this example.
Spasiba! Enlightening :)
.
Death does not occur at the same rate with the same illness. Steve Hawking was supposed to be dead in the 1960s. In the mid-1980s, he contracted pneumonia which should have killed him since was already very incapacitated. So how did he survive for over five decades? :duh:
:bow:
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Chap at last work served with the Anglian’s in NI, and he was actually Irish, though had English accent.
A bit like your mate Mobs.
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Putting the suspicions, confablulations, conspiracy theories, hooplah and plain lies aside for a moment, i sincerely hope the reports of the Skripals recovery are something we can believe.
Tonight im drinking to Sergei and Julias recovery and to the NHS for making it possible.
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I also want to update you on the condition of her father, Sergei Skripal. He is respond well to treatment, improving rapidly and is no longer in a critical condition.
http://time.com/5230645/russian-spy-sergei-skirpal-improving-rapidly/
I thought Novichok devastated the bodies of anyone who managed to survive exposure to it? One article stated that one of the scientists who developed it and was exposed in an accident needed lifelong medical care and still ended up dying a few years later....is there anyone involved in this who can be relied on to give accurate info at all?!!
The people involved with this incident (whoever they are) have not come forth to tell how this all came about. As for accurate information, it seems that to rely on a specific person for that requires the original perpetrator(s) to reveal him/her self. :chuckle:
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Putting the suspicions, confablulations, conspiracy theories, hooplah and plain lies aside for a moment, i sincerely hope the reports of the Skripals recovery are something we can believe.
Tonight im drinking to Sergei and Julias recovery and to the NHS for making it possible.
HEAR ~ HEAR
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And the "Dallas" conspiracy theories..... and saga continue, regarding the Poisoning of the Scripals.
First the "The Times" on Thursday and yesterday the "Guardian" took the "Βατοn" ......
"On Thursday, the Times reported that British intelligence had identified Shikhany as the source of the nerve agent used in the Salisbury attack, during a briefing for the country’s allies.
Kuznetsov said: “If the substance synthesised by Rink and the substance which poisoned Skripal are identical, then that means that the attempted murder of Skirpal was made with the Russian government’s knowledge.”
But with a number of labs producing at least five variants of novichok across Russia, and a lapse of two decades between the cases, the ultimate use of the data from the 1995 murder may be limited in relation to Skripal.
British scientists at Porton Down said this week that they had not determined the country of origin of the nerve agent, explaining it was “not our job to say where it was manufactured”. The Foreign Office subsequently deleted a tweet that said the nerve agent was “produced in Russia”, saying the remarks had been truncated."
Read all about it! https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/06/uk-us-case-file-russian-nerve-agent-shikhany-spy-poisoning
Tonight the Russian Orthodox Church and also the Greek one..... are celebrating Easter
and at middle night, while in church......when the priest say.... "Christ is Risen" I will pray for fast recovery of the Scripal's so we can have a more interesting developments!
HERE IS A COMMENT AT THE GUARDIANS EDITORIAL, on Thursday:
chrisbusby 1d ago Guardian Pick
"I will say a few words about the Russian Nerve Agent issue. I worked for several years at the Wellcome Research laboratories in London as a Senior Scientist in the Department of Physical Chemistry. My job, at the basic level was to help determine the structure and origin of pharmaceutical compounds. So, I am an expert in this area. I also carried out similar work at Queen Mary College London for my first PhD and synthesised complex organic chemicals. From that, I can say that the synthesis of a specific small organic chemical like the supposed Novichoks is not very difficult. Most sythetic organic chemists could knock up small quantities of the 234 compound, given the structure. Mainly, I can say that there is no way that the compound that was detected in the Skripal attack could be traced to a Russian laboratory (or any laboratory) by any lab unless the lab already had a sample known to come from the Russian laboratory (or the source laboratory). The determination and identification methods mainly depend on mass spectrometric fragmentation patterns, and include the spectrum of stray molecular fragments from impurities associated with the synthesis route. This is how we located Patent jumping, and we took this evidence into the courts. All chemists know this, and that is why the Porton head said what he said, as any chemist would have been able to raise this issue and show that he was lying, if he said anything else. It is basic physical chemistry. So, the new headline in the Times, about a secret Russian laboratory is also bogus. What is also clear is that the mass spectrum of the A234 compound was put on the NIST database in 1998 by a worker from the USA chemical warfare laboratory. I therefore conclude that this whole affair is a tissue of lies and misdirection, rather like the WMD Iraq scenario."
Confused?
:reading: tiphat
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While I dislike most people who declare themselves an expert on a topic. I can accept the line of reasoning that Wiz qoutes.
What does concern me is it seems there is a general push to move the West again in a confrontational mode towards Russia. Perhaps we are looking at Cold War 2. Much of the blame of this can be laid at certain governments 'leaders'.
It should be noted that Russia also owns some of this I fear oncoming reality.
The Skripals are just pawns, unfortunately.
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While I dislike most people who declare themselves an expert on a topic. I can accept the line of reasoning that Wiz qoutes.
What does concern me is it seems there is a general push to move the West again in a confrontational mode towards Russia. Perhaps we are looking at Cold War 2. Much of the blame of this can be laid at certain governments 'leaders'.
It should be noted that Russia also owns some of this I fear oncoming reality.
The Skripals are just pawns, unfortunately.
I am not following any body's line neither take sides..... just observe the narrative of this ugly episode. It becomes clear that the Hegemon USA and its lapdog UK are hell bend to create the conditions to attack Russia who has challenged their supremacy and spoiled their plans for energy domination around the world, especially in the Middle east.
Have you noticed that the spat between Trump and Kim NK is off our screens after they met secretly in SK?
With reference to Scripal, it appears that the ugly sisters CIA and MI6 follow the script of the film......
"The Russian House"
Listen to this dialogue:
and here is the latest about Scripals......
Sergei and Yulia Skripal offered new identities with CIA help
Poisoned daughter refuses to meet Russians
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQbM-K-aX5rLAix08BuIf59MGo4B7n3ZBmAFAzt5ca5CSS2djEQ)
"Sergei and Yulia Skripal will be offered new identities and a new life in America in an attempt to protect them from further murder attempts.
Intelligence officials at MI6 have had discussions with their counterparts in the CIA about resettling the victims of the Salisbury poisoning. “They will be offered new identities,” a senior Whitehall figure said.
Senior sources revealed both victims were conscious and would soon begin helping investigators with their inquiries into the nerve agent attack on March 4. Yulia, 33, a Russian citizen, has rejected demands by the Russian embassy in London that it provides her and her father with consular support — a move that has convinced British officials she might move to the West permanently."
Read more here:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/sergei-and-yulia-skripal-offered-new-identities-with-cia-help-ztf896rnj?utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=newsletter_101&utm_medium=email&utm_content=101_08.04.2018%20Best%20of%20ST%20Skripal%20(1)&CMP=TNLEmail_118918_3130359_101
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: tiphat
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While unfortunate for the animals, the reality seems to point towards an outside the home action regarding the Skripals.
https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/981987376674361346/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.yahoo.com%2Fnews%2Fsergei-skripal-apos-cat-guinea-170527841.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/sergei-skripal-apos-cat-guinea-170527841.html
It is rather pathetic that the officials involved could not make the basic efforts to secure the well being of the pets. I wonder if there was a newborn present, what would be the protocol?
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There is a protocol. It is basic and would be known and followed by any police officers. That means that the story we have been told us, once again, untrue.
Think about it, in a case of chemical poisoning the animals would be evidence and tested for traces of contamination. Thus they'd be removed from the home immediately. If there was no suspicion of contamination the animals would be removed and placed into safe care.
What would be the mechanism that would enable pets to be locked in a house to die? In this case that could not have happened. The house was, we have been told, carefully examined to find traces of this fictional chemical. People were going in and out and that's how the purported chemical residues were found on the door furniture.
One way or another the story about the pets is a lie. There's no truthful foundation to the story that can lead to this outcome.
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My take:
1. It was Novichok
2. Only Russia made it (that we know of)
3. Other State's may have it for have cloned it.
4. Cannot be made in the kitchen or by a tinpot country.
5. Objective was not to kill, but to warn 'people' whoever these 'people' are that we can kill you, in the meantime we are gonna make you seriously ill on cusp of death for ages and if you do die, shiit happens.
6. See above - Litvinenko.
7. The RF and/or Putin does seem to be surrounded by mysterious deaths, suciudes and people getting ill and sometimes dying.
8. This is Official Secrets Act stuff, we don't know hardly any of the truth.
Insufficient data....
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7. The RF and/or Putin does seem to be surrounded by mysterious deaths, suciudes and people getting ill and sometimes dying.
Insufficient data....
Does anyone have links, or know , of cases of Russky spies outside of the RF dying, when not on British soil? I recall only cases of the UK, which to me is very odd. Why them and not Netherlands, or Germany, or America.
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7. The RF and/or Putin does seem to be surrounded by mysterious deaths, suciudes and people getting ill and sometimes dying.
Insufficient data....
Does anyone have links, or know , of cases of Russky spies outside of the RF dying, when not on British soil? I recall only cases of the UK, which to me is very odd. Why them and not Netherlands, or Germany, or America.
Good point...
.
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Using the criteria that I apply to my arty farty work I come to three conclusions.
Russia gains nothing by the elimination of the Skripals.
The UK gains nothing by the elimination of the Skripals.
The US gains little by the elimination of the Skripals.
Assuming the Skripals did not have a bad case of food poisoning than most likely an agent on either side of the 'fence' decided to off them as retaliation on behalf of a fallen comrade or agent.
Because of the reality of Russian - West relations this incident has spun out of control of the controllers.
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According to a "City of London" working person, that I know, the problem is not the Russian state or the Russian People.
It's simply Vladimir Putin!.
It appears that the huge amounts of Capital, exported from Russia (legally or Illegally), during the Yeltsin years and the early years of Putin in Power, invested in the City has been gradually dried out...... and some boys.... don't get very fat bonuses ............
It also appears that Vladimir Putin is exerting a lot pressure at the "Bank of Russia" and its President: Elvira Nabiullina, regarding foreign investments and the banking stability in Russia, while building its Gold reserves to unprecedented levels (nearly 2000 tones) and stabilising the Rubble .
https://www.ft.com/content/c1af45ec-e59c-11e7-97e2-916d4fbac0da
It is rumoured that Puting is waiting for the right moment to Nationalise the "Privately Owned" Bank of Russia. I wonder, if that happens, who will be the big looser?
tiphat
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Ste, there's much we do not know but some of your points are simply factually incorrect.
In addition, we can look at what we do know. What we do know tells us that we have been lied to. We do not need to know the whole story to know that we have been lied to. There's no need to discuss and speculate about minutiae because we know that we have been lied to. Because we have been lied to we can know that the purpose of the narrative is also a lie - if it were true there'd be no need to lie.
Thus it follows that the Russians have no input into the 'poisonings' that might have taken place.
Whatever happened the current narratives have been designed to produce a false outcome - to blame the Russian state for something it had no involvement in.
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Using the criteria that I apply to my arty farty work I come to three conclusions.
Russia gains nothing by the elimination of the Skripals.
The UK gains nothing by the elimination of the Skripals.
The US gains little by the elimination of the Skripals.
Assuming the Skripals did not have a bad case of food poisoning than most likely an agent on either side of the 'fence' decided to off them as retaliation on behalf of a fallen comrade or agent.
EDIT: I SHOULD OF ADDED: The picture painted is a forgery.
Because of the reality of Russian - West relations this incident has spun out of control of the controllers.
Ste, there's much we do not know but some of your points are simply factually incorrect.
. . . .
Whatever happened the current narratives have been designed to produce a false outcome - to blame the Russian state for something it had no involvement in.
It is disturbing that the global reality is as Andrew depicts, but Ste is also correct as far as the evidence points towards direct Russian involvement in the murder of A. Litvenenko.
I suspect the execution of S. Magnitsky marked a change in policy and style within the 'new' Russia and we might be seeing this played out on the diplomatic and in the news world currently.
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I'm placing this here and the reason it's being placed here is because I believe this attack on Skripal was a #falseflag operation carried out by the Zionist warmongers who are PO'd that their timeline for creating a "Greater Israel" was slowed down by the election of Trump instead of Hillary.
The continued push in the USA to impeach Trump (at least in the media) and the never ending charade of blaming Russia for all the Worlds ills is just their latest illusion to deflect attention away from what's really going on. Theresa May and Boris were caught red-handed being the lackey's they are for the Zionist cabal.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/syria-says-strike-on-military-base-carried-out-by-israeli-warplanes/ar-AAvF3Et?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp
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Given what we know, it is unlikely that Litvinenko was murdered by the Russian State or its representatives. The 'inquest' did not find such but the final documents were worded such that even though no proof was offered, or available, a set of inferences were drawn which were not supported by the evidence.
If one reads only headlines then the assumption that you made would be taken, that was the expectation of the writers of the documentation.
When analyzing anything it is at least as important to look at what is not present as looking at what is present. That's not an easy trick to pull off if it were easy then magicians, sleight of hand artistes, and analysts, would all be out of jobs. The first tow because they are practitioners and the last because they are trained to look at patterns and understand a picture from incomplete data.
The following report by a former QC is worth a read (warning lots of words, some of them quite long). https://russia-insider.com/en/politics/litvinenko-inquiry-was/ri12452 Here you will see the importance of what is not seen as well as the importance of the way words are used to convince people that something that might be true is definitely true. The people who worked on the judge's report (unlikely to have been penned entirely alone would, just the judge is, be absolutely au fait with how language is used - it is the root and core of how the British legal system works.
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Given what we know, it is unlikely that Litvinenko was murdered by the Russian State or its representatives. The 'inquest' did not find such but the final documents were worded such that even though no proof was offered, or available, a set of inferences were drawn which were not supported by the evidence.
If one reads only headlines then the assumption that you made would be taken, that was the expectation of the writers of the documentation.
When analyzing anything it is at least as important to look at what is not present as looking at what is present. That's not an easy trick to pull off if it were easy then magicians, sleight of hand artistes, and analysts, would all be out of jobs. The first tow because they are practitioners and the last because they are trained to look at patterns and understand a picture from incomplete data.
Okay, the buck stops here. Litvenenko was clearly assassinated by Russia. However that killing gave rise to the ability of those who carry out false flag attacks the ability to frame Russia.
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Confederate, time to do some learning. Read the link in the edited version of my post above. Read the report of the public inquiry and do some thinking.
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Using the criteria that I apply to my arty farty work I come to three conclusions.
Russia gains nothing by the elimination of the Skripals.
The UK gains nothing by the elimination of the Skripals.
The US gains little by the elimination of the Skripals.
Assuming the Skripals did not have a bad case of food poisoning than most likely an agent on either side of the 'fence' decided to off them as retaliation on behalf of a fallen comrade or agent.
EDIT: I SHOULD OF ADDED: The picture painted is a forgery.
Because of the reality of Russian - West relations this incident has spun out of control of the controllers.
Ste, there's much we do not know but some of your points are simply factually incorrect.
. . . .
Whatever happened the current narratives have been designed to produce a false outcome - to blame the Russian state for something it had no involvement in.
It is disturbing that the global reality is as Andrew depicts, but Ste is also correct as far as the evidence points towards direct Russian involvement in the murder of A. Litvenenko.
I suspect the execution of S. Magnitsky marked a change in policy and style within the 'new' Russia and we might be seeing this played out on the diplomatic and in the news world currently.
Are you aware with the court case about the murder of A. Litvenenko and what happen there?
"Taken into account all the evidence available, including a “considerable quantity” of secret intelligence that was not aired in open court, ...... then closed these evidence for 100 years" From the Guardian 21/01/2016
Is it coincidence that william Browder, a Jew, owner of the London-based Hermitage Capital Management fund, was banned from entering Russia in 2005 ?
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An interesting read (lots of words, some of them long): https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/skripal-russian-web-or-rusi-web
Some of what is written by the author fits with stuff that I know, or have insight into. For this reason, his article is credible and convincing. As he himself says, he does not draw conclusions but suggests adding what he has written to one's own knowledge and understanding of the current case (Skripal). If merely scanning, or not bothering to read, the takeaway that we can safely carry is this: there's a hell of a lot more going on than we know. The story is much more complicated and there are powerful forces that most of us have never heard of with interests unknown to us. In large part that is why I understand that for us to blather about minutiae at our level is pointless because we simply do not know enough about what is going on. All that we can be sure of, as rational, thinking (hopefully/sometimes) people, is that we can see when a story is untrue, or deliberately misleading. We do not need to know or understand everything in order to see the inconsistencies, logical missteps, and downright falsehoods that are being forced on us for our acceptance.
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Confederate, time to do some learning. Read the link in the edited version of my post above. Read the report of the public inquiry and do some thinking.
Unlike the hasty U.K. media and politicians I’m willing to take another look see.
Don’t reckon I’ll be changing mind bout Livenenko. Now that killing sent a very strong message.
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Given what we know, it is unlikely that Litvinenko was murdered by the Russian State or its representatives. The 'inquest' did not find such but the final documents were worded such that even though no proof was offered, or available, a set of inferences were drawn which were not supported by the evidence.
If one reads only headlines then the assumption that you made would be taken, that was the expectation of the writers of the documentation.
When analyzing anything it is at least as important to look at what is not present as looking at what is present. That's not an easy trick to pull off if it were easy then magicians, sleight of hand artistes, and analysts, would all be out of jobs. The first tow because they are practitioners and the last because they are trained to look at patterns and understand a picture from incomplete data.
The following report by a former QC is worth a read (warning lots of words, some of them quite long). https://russia-insider.com/en/politics/litvinenko-inquiry-was/ri12452 Here you will see the importance of what is not seen as well as the importance of the way words are used to convince people that something that might be true is definitely true. The people who worked on the judge's report (unlikely to have been penned entirely alone would, just the judge is, be absolutely au fait with how language is used - it is the root and core of how the British legal system works.
It is almost amusing that Andrew can quote a highly biased source of disinformation and declare it definitive. But than again we would expect little else from the likes of Andrew. If I am not mistaken Scotland Yard very clearly stated Russian actors were directly involved in the poisoning and elimination of Litvinenko
Here is a rather long read, it supplies both motive and means in a clear time line.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/19/alexander-litvinenko-the-man-who-solved-his-own-murder
This is not for the faint of heart as it portrays the ugliness of the 'new' Russia. Oddly enough there is a connection between Skripal and Litvinenko, and it not some mole in Moscow but rather T. May, go figure.
. . . The story is much more complicated and there are powerful forces that most of us have never heard of with interests unknown to us. In large part that is why I understand that for us to blather about minutiae at our level is pointless because we simply do not know enough about what is going on. All that we can be sure of, as rational, thinking (hopefully/sometimes) people, is that we can see when a story is untrue, or deliberately misleading. We do not need to know or understand everything in order to see the inconsistencies, logical missteps, and downright falsehoods that are being forced on us for our acceptance. . .
I agree this story is both complicated, filled with contradictions and there are to many unknowns.
It could be that Russia has down a brilliant job covering its tracks. I doubt it.
It could be the English muffed it up. I doubt the English could find a pussy in a cat house.
Perhaps the nasty CIA wanted to create a false flag operation. I doubt though they are that imaginative.
Or did the French want to stop the consumption of smelly green cheese.
Any scenario in this situation could be made to 'fit'.
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It is indeed interesting to read of my political closeness to Ste's viewpoints and other stuff 'we all know.'
Many Russians I know are watching the BBC and express surprise that the UK media is more 'factual' and discusses alternative viewpoints, rather than the Kremlin controlled media, that seems intend on stirring up anti British sentiment and offering up multiple scenarios for the Skripals' poisoning.
It is noted that 20 plus nations have viewed what the British have showed them re Salisbury and concurred
Ireland has always taken a very neutral line and even it has agreed with the UK.
I think Mrs May is weak and wasn't string enough as home sec to deal with the bumping's off in the UK of Russian dissidents and Boris is a buffoon.
I think they will get a spanking in May's local elections and the scary thing is that the Tories will carry on or think replacing May with a Brextremist will help, while simply aiding Corbyn, who is a secret Europhile, but the Brextremist press would rather post jingoistic bollox about him.
This 'russophobe' had a Russian business guest and proudly flew the Ru flag in his honour on the back of the boat.
There is no way I am going to let the antics of our respective representatives effect friendships.
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May I suggest to all of you .... Friends, neutral or Foes of Russia FED to watch events coming to it's pre-designed result.
Keep an eye in Syria and the USA actions.
Would Puting get involved in a proxy war with USA?
The Jews are pushing the provocation.........
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May I suggest to all of you .... Friends, neutral or Foes of Russia FED to watch events coming to it's pre-designed result.
Keep an eye in Syria and the USA actions.
Would Puting get involved in a proxy war with USA?
The Jews are pushing the provocation.........
Certainly Israel has poured enough gas on the embers of Syria.
And yes I fear there is a strong likelyhood of a serious confrontation between the West (USA) and Russia but I suspect it will be closer to Russia's homeland. V. Putin does not want to become involved in a Vietnam/Afghanistan sort of debacle. D. Trump in some of recent appointments has a bunch of idiots who do not understand compromise and are ignorant of history.
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The Jewes are not the men who will be blamed for nothing.
Jack the Ripper
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AvHdB, in the interests of learning and sharing, perhaps you would use your incisive wit and show just how Mr. Mercouris is biased in the piece he wrote? Give it a shot, please.
Please bear in mind that to do so you are going to need to show how his analysis is either flawed on a factual basis or that he chooses to slant, by selection, his analysis. As always, I suggest that in doing so, you consider that which is not said as well as that which is said because it is selection that can most easily demonstrate bias.
By the way, in your rush to write something you missed reading (forgot, didn't actually read, didn't understand - who knows) the point that Mercouris makes: in his opinion, there is a circumstantial case to be made against both Lugovoi and Kovtun. You missed the point that the investigation made it impossible for a criminal case to be made against them - not least because the inquiry refused the assistance of Russia. The core of Mercouris' argument is that the two most likely suspects did not have connections with the Russian state and that it was very unlikely that the murder was an act of the Russian state or government.
But yeah, there were lots of words and some of them were long...
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Let'someone cut through to the conclusion of Mercouris:
WHAT A FAIR DECISION BY THE INQUIRY WOULD HAVE BEEN
If the Inquiry had stopped at this point and had said that
''Litvinenko was poisoned with polonium, which caused his death, and
that this polonium was administered to him intentionally and maliciously in order to cause his death, and
that his death was therefore a murder, and that there is a circumstantial case that Lugovoi and Kovtun are the guilty parties
that would have been a good and proper result, and a worthwhile outcome to the Inquiry.''
The Kremlin stopped key witnesses testifying
You omitted that, too
Spin on
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Good news
The daughter has been released from hospital
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43710126 (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43710126)
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Send in the Atomic Blonde. She'll get to the bottom of this mess!
Warning: Lot's of extremely pleasurable gratuitous violence. :chuckle:
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May I suggest to all of you .... Friends, neutral or Foes of Russia FED to watch events coming to it's pre-designed result.
Keep an eye in Syria and the USA actions.
Would Puting get involved in a proxy war with USA?
The Jews are pushing the provocation.........
Certainly Israel has poured enough gas on the embers of Syria.
And yes I fear there is a strong likelyhood of a serious confrontation between the West (USA) and Russia but I suspect it will be closer to Russia's homeland. V. Putin does not want to become involved in a Vietnam/Afghanistan sort of debacle. D. Trump in some of recent appointments has a bunch of idiots who do not understand compromise and are ignorant of history.
I'm not a fan of uber warmonger Bolton at all. Now watch as Trump is given a choice: Start a war against the Russians on behalf of Israel and we'll drop the bogus allegations of Russian collusion during the election; or the Russia charade will continue as well as efforts to impeach.
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"It's too late. A million Syrians are dead and millions more are refugees,". They want to give Assad a light slap to protect their honour and then let him continue killing the rest of the Free Syrians." "We don't rely on Trump," said Haitham, who asked that his surname not be published. "Trump is not a genuine fighter. The genuine fighter is Putin, who is defending the regime by all available means. If Trump hits the regime it is just to embarrass Putin."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/10/russia-boasts-practising-shooting-missiles-us-considers-air/
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"It's too late. A million Syrians are dead and millions more are refugees,". They want to give Assad a light slap to protect their honour and then let him continue killing the rest of the Free Syrians." "We don't rely on Trump," said Haitham, who asked that his surname not be published. "Trump is not a genuine fighter. The genuine fighter is Putin, who is defending the regime by all available means. If Trump hits the regime it is just to embarrass Putin."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/10/russia-boasts-practising-shooting-missiles-us-considers-air/
I read this article and it's nothing more than crude propaganda against Russia. A 10 year child could do much better collection of unrelated comments.......
It is very clear that the client/suppliers of the US pentagon are desperate of a few billions.....
The Anglo/zionist sisters want a hot war to allow Isra(H)el to control all area from the Suez canal to Iran. Couple of days ago Isra(H)el plane bombed "Holmes" in Syria.
Duma, a stronghold of terrorists. it's now under control of Bashar/Syria and the Russians.
The (Mafia representative) President Trump, needs some kind of excuse/action to keep the Hawks happy and May a war involvement to survive Brexit.
The whole situation is instability everywhere..... keep an eye at the exchange rates.
READ THIS: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/10/israel-russia-syria-netanyahu-iran-middle-east?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=270898&subid=11190449&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2
:rolleye0009: :sick0012:
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"Being on the Russian stock market is like living on a volcano,"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-vows-curb-u-sanctions-fallout-shrugs-off-114425956--finance.html
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"Being on the Russian stock market is like living on a volcano,"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-vows-curb-u-sanctions-fallout-shrugs-off-114425956--finance.html
Cool, cause when a volcano erupts, your stock may soar to unprecedented highs and make you very rich.
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"Being on the Russian stock market is like living on a volcano,"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-vows-curb-u-sanctions-fallout-shrugs-off-114425956--finance.html
Cool, cause when a volcano erupts, your stock may soar to unprecedented highs and make you very rich.
Better whack the dollars on then!! :chuckle:
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"Being on the Russian stock market is like living on a volcano,"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-vows-curb-u-sanctions-fallout-shrugs-off-114425956--finance.html
Cool, cause when a volcano erupts, your stock may soar to unprecedented highs and make you very rich.
Better whack the dollars on then!! :chuckle:
Dollars? Old-fashioned git ... I'm using bitcoins . :laugh:
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AvHdB, in the interests of learning and sharing, perhaps you would use your incisive wit and show just how Mr. Mercouris is biased in the piece he wrote? . . . . Give it a shot, please.
No long words just quotes from the official report. In a very polite way the UK government places blame on Russia for the death of Litvinenko.
"the documents raised an arguable case that the Russian State bore responsibility for Mr Litvinenko’s death."
"Andrey Lugovoy and Dmitri Kovtun, both of whom are wanted by the British authorities for the murder of Mr Litvinenko, declined my invitation to give evidence to the Inquiry. That is a matter of regret to me. Both men took some part in these proceedings. Mr Lugovoy was represented for a time during the preparations for the inquest, but declined to take any further part when the inquest was converted into an Inquiry. Mr Kovtun made contact with the Inquiry towards the end of the scheduled hearings and indicated that he wished to give evidence. He provided a witness statement and arrangements were made for him to give oral evidence by videolink from Moscow. In the end, however, he decided not to do so"
I could quote more but will leave it to others to read. > https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/493860/The-Litvinenko-Inquiry-H-C-695-web.pdf <
I does confirm what others have noted regarding corruption in the 'new' Russia,
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Ms Skripal has used the UK Metropolitan Police to release a statement
https://www.rt.com/uk/423864-yulia-skripal-statement-police/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=push_notifications&utm_campaign=push_notifications (https://www.rt.com/uk/423864-yulia-skripal-statement-police/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=push_notifications&utm_campaign=push_notifications)
Certain sources in have suggested she may have been abducted against her will....
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Interestingly, although the RT news links to it, the wording in Ms Skripal's statement is softer than the RT headline suggests and makes it clear that her cousin's views are somewhat at odds.
http://news.met.police.uk/news/statement-issued-on-behalf-of-yulia-skripal-302508 (http://news.met.police.uk/news/statement-issued-on-behalf-of-yulia-skripal-302508)
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Here is the statement supposedly released by Julia Skripal in full -
Yulia Skripal's statement in full
"I was discharged from Salisbury District Hospital on the 9th April 2018. I was treated there with obvious clinical expertise and with such kindness, that I have found I missed the staff immediately.
"I have left my father in their care, and he is still seriously ill. I too am still suffering with the effects of the nerve agent used against us.
"I find myself in a totally different life than the ordinary one I left just over a month ago, and I am seeking to come to terms with my prospects, whilst also recovering from this attack on me.
"I have specially trained officers available to me, who are helping to take care of me and to explain the investigative processes that are being undertaken. I have access to friends and family, and I have been made aware of my specific contacts at the Russian Embassy who have kindly offered me their assistance in any way they can. At the moment I do not wish to avail myself of their services, but, if I change my mind I know how to contact them.
Now reading this statement I am certain of one thing - it was not written by Julia Skripal !
The complex sentence structure and grammar are not typical of any Russian writing in a second language. This was written by a UK civil servant, the style is unmistakable...
The UK government is never going to allow a public press conference for obvious reasons (:)
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Leslied,
I am quite sure those are not exactly the words of Ms Skripal - but almost certainly the gist...
I get the impression she has decided who to trust and some folks on here would rather dream up 'conspiracy theories' rather than think like a person whose life was threatened
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Further .. If an attempt had been made on your life - from which you were recovering - would you want to do a press conference?
This is not a nation that parades prisoners or intrudes on victims - simples
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Here is the statement supposedly released by Julia Skripal in full -
Yulia Skripal's statement in full
"I was discharged from Salisbury District Hospital on the 9th April 2018. I was treated there with obvious clinical expertise and with such kindness, that I have found I missed the staff immediately.
"I have left my father in their care, and he is still seriously ill. I too am still suffering with the effects of the nerve agent used against us.
"I find myself in a totally different life than the ordinary one I left just over a month ago, and I am seeking to come to terms with my prospects, whilst also recovering from this attack on me.
"I have specially trained officers available to me, who are helping to take care of me and to explain the investigative processes that are being undertaken. I have access to friends and family, and I have been made aware of my specific contacts at the Russian Embassy who have kindly offered me their assistance in any way they can. At the moment I do not wish to avail myself of their services, but, if I change my mind I know how to contact them.
Now reading this statement I am certain of one thing - it was not written by Julia Skripal !
The complex sentence structure and grammar are not typical of any Russian writing in a second language. This was written by a UK civil servant, the style is unmistakable...
The UK government is never going to allow a public press conference for obvious reasons (:)
Well she could have used a Native Russian speaker to check it, I use my better half to tidy up stuff I write myself in crap Russian to folks, so I don’t sound uneducated.
And despite her English being A1 she gets me to look over her’s, Russians especially don’t like to appear prosaically uneducated.
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Salisbury District Hospital condemned what it described as “appalling behaviour” by the Russian TV, accusing it of trespassing and harassing staff in the middle of the night “with no warning and without asking for any permission”.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/11/russian-tv-thrown-salisbury-hospital-trying-undermine-spy-assassination/
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Here is the statement supposedly released by Julia Skripal in full -
Yulia Skripal's statement in full
"I was discharged from Salisbury District Hospital on the 9th April 2018. I was treated there with obvious clinical expertise and with such kindness, that I have found I missed the staff immediately.
"I have left my father in their care, and he is still seriously ill. I too am still suffering with the effects of the nerve agent used against us.
"I find myself in a totally different life than the ordinary one I left just over a month ago, and I am seeking to come to terms with my prospects, whilst also recovering from this attack on me.
"I have specially trained officers available to me, who are helping to take care of me and to explain the investigative processes that are being undertaken. I have access to friends and family, and I have been made aware of my specific contacts at the Russian Embassy who have kindly offered me their assistance in any way they can. At the moment I do not wish to avail myself of their services, but, if I change my mind I know how to contact them.
Now reading this statement I am certain of one thing - it was not written by Julia Skripal !
The complex sentence structure and grammar are not typical of any Russian writing in a second language. This was written by a UK civil servant, the style is unmistakable...
The UK government is never going to allow a public press conference for obvious reasons (:)
Well she could have used a Native Russian speaker to check it, I use my better half to tidy up stuff I write myself in crap Russian to folks, so I don’t sound uneducated.
And despite her English being A1 she gets me to look over her’s, Russians especially don’t like to appear prosaically uneducated.
I saw a rom-com series made in Japan that was translated with English subtitles. It was an atrocious piece of translation (done by some multimedia company in Asia). Wrong words, genders, sentence structures throughout the entire program. Any one with no knowledge of the Japanese audio would be completely clueless of the plot of the series. I saw the same series that was subtitled by another Japanese multimedia translators. Perfect translation as to the meaning behind the words. Correct grammar. The person doing the subtitles knew the language differences between Japanese and English. It was like looking at the same program, but getting a totally different script. ???
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“LET'S PLAY FAKE SYRIAN CHEMICAL ATTACK children's party!”
:chuckle:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-trolls-denied-syrian-gas-attackbefore-it-happened
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While I find the English both formal and sterile, it should be noted Ms Skripal worked in England before as well as worked in Pepsi Co. in Moscow. Most multinational firms conduct meetings in English.
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“LET'S PLAY FAKE SYRIAN CHEMICAL ATTACK children's party!”
:chuckle:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-trolls-denied-syrian-gas-attackbefore-it-happened
Obviously the Russian “trolls” were making light of the gas attack last year which was highly suspicious.
If you knew the history of #falseflags being used as a pretext to go to war perhaps you’d be more circumspect and serious and less flippant.
Please refer to the excellent post by Krassavchick in the other thread.
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While I find the English both formal and sterile, it should be noted Ms Skripal worked in England before as well as worked in Pepsi Co. in Moscow. Most multinational firms conduct meetings in English.
The perfect syntax and grammar is not suspicious. Yulia is an educated 33 year old who lived in the UK for 8 years. I am sure it was checked and tidied before release - heck, if I were making a press statement anywhere in the world subject to extreme scrutiny, I would like it to be flawless, too. Nobody wants to appear a 'bydlo', especially an educated Russian.
There is, of course, a strong human element to this story - how Yulia herself must feel. She must be very hurt, disoriented, and unable to trust anyone. She probably has even less of an idea of the cause of these events than outside observers. If my cousin were making a media circus of herself about deeply damaging and embarrassing events in my life, as Viktoria has done to Yulia, I would also be rather furious, especially if it were apparent that she was collaborating with the FSB (the circumstance around the recorded telephone call was deeply strange).
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I would also be rather furious, especially if it were apparent that she was collaborating with the FSB (the circumstance around the recorded telephone call was deeply strange).
I am sure " MOBY" can help you to understand better your above comments!
:laugh:
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I am sure " MOBY" can help you to understand better your above comments!
:laugh:
I'm sure we'd much rather hear your theory as if it is anything like your constant attempts to suggest who 'sponsors' me or 'safety advice' on where I should not be travelling to - it is always entertaining
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Some children have more worth than others?
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/04/some-dead-children-count-more-than-others/
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I am sure " MOBY" can help you to understand better your above comments!
:laugh:
I'm sure we'd much rather hear your theory as if it is anything like your constant attempts to suggest who 'sponsors' me or 'safety advice' on where I should not be travelling to - it is always entertaining
I never gave you any advice where to travel.....it's your own fertile imagination.
As about who pays your piper.... it's your little secret! :P
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He said, she said. (:)
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia-claims-syria-chemical-attack-was-staged-by-britain
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-us-tensions-latest-updates-073603391.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/04/13/russia-blamed-britain-syria-chemical-attack/514756002/
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-spied-skripal-daughter-least-5-years-uk-125726610.html
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I didn't feel like translating the Dutch MSM, so I will quote RT instead.
Watch the haters burn the message.
https://www.rt.com/news/424149-skripal-poisoning-bz-lavrov/
Lavrov: Swiss lab says ‘BZ toxin’ used in Salisbury, not produced in Russia, was in US & UK service
and :
Lavrov said that the Swiss center that assessed the samples is actually the Spiez Laboratory. This facility is a Swiss state research center controlled by the Swiss Federal Office for Civil Protection and, ultimately, by the country’s defense minister. The lab is also an internationally recognized center of excellence in the field of the nuclear, biological, and chemical protection and is one of the five centers permanently authorized by the OPCW.
Article in Dutch :
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1917925/skripal-mogelijk-vergiftigd-met-ander-middel
Headline reads: Skripal was possibly poisoned with another nerve-agent (than novichok)
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Headline reads: Skripal was possibly poisoned with another nerve-agent (than novichok)
What was used on the Skripal's is only important for the Skripal's and those treating them.
A larger question/mystery is who; there are many theories and assumptions floating about. One that was amusing (but who knows) it was C. Steele on the request of H. Clinton.
We might as well blame Moby or the Zionists.
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What was used on the Skripal's is only important for the Skripal's and those treating them.
A larger question/mystery is who; there are many theories and assumptions floating about.
We might as well blame Moby or the Zionists.
SPOT ON OLD BOY! :thumbsup:
Teresa May told us that was "Likely the Russian State" and of course the Russian state... is the dictator........ VVPutin and he has the power to give such orders. (:)
People forget why this double agent, Sergey Scripal, went to prison in Russia......for giving away 300 names of Russian spies operating in Europe and elsewhere, we were told.
Having read the Litvinenko inquiry document...... where a full description about his life etc, I would have thought that the Russian "friends" in the underworld would have paid him back easily..... for his treachery and not let him be exchanged and come to UK.
Don't blame Noby.... he is on a mission in Cyprus.... who knows with him and his errants.
:laugh:
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Headline reads: Skripal was possibly poisoned with another nerve-agent (than novichok)
What was used on the Skripal's is only important for the Skripal's and those treating them.
A larger question/mystery is who; there are many theories and assumptions floating about. One that was amusing (but who knows) it was C. Steele on the request of H. Clinton.
We might as well blame Moby or the Zionists.
it is also relevant to us, as the alternative is not manufactored in russia. Therefore it eliminates the prime suspect
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Ok let’s have a bit of fun here.
If China for example, decides that it was likely, that the U.K. has been using chemical weapons on its civilians, should they launch an attack on our infrastructure and take out the threats?
And would those who support the Syrian attack feel that this theoretical Chinese attack, be warranted?
:popcorn:
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Ok let’s have a bit of fun here.
If China for example, decides that it was likely, that the U.K. has been using chemical weapons on its civilians, should they launch an attack on our infrastructure and take out the threats?
And would those who support the Syrian attack feel that this theoretical Chinese attack, be warranted?
:popcorn:
Curious ever hear of Tibet? :coffeeread:
-
Ok let’s have a bit of fun here.
If China for example, decides that it was likely, that the U.K. has been using chemical weapons on its civilians, should they launch an attack on our infrastructure and take out the threats?
And would those who support the Syrian attack feel that this theoretical Chinese attack, be warranted?
:popcorn:
I'll do you one better. When the US government used tanks and other assets in a show of overwhelming force which burned citizens alive during the Waco, Texas tragedy, was that a good enough pretext for Russia to bomb the USA as some sort of retaliation?
:popcorn:
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Ok let’s have a bit of fun here.
If China for example, decides that it was likely, that the U.K. has been using chemical weapons on its civilians, should they launch an attack on our infrastructure and take out the threats?
And would those who support the Syrian attack feel that this theoretical Chinese attack, be warranted?
:popcorn:
The whole episode is utterly disgraceful. Teresa May is a coward and war criminal, as was Blair in Iraq, and her other partners, Trump and Macron.
The Tories are on the back foot, Trump is sweating as the FBI is closing in to impeach him and Macron has huge problems.
The whole thing stinks. First the poisoning of the Scripals, without any credible evidence provided. They are still alive......
Then unproven accusations of chemical attack in Duma/Syria and then premature bombing before the inspectors start working.
Obviously the ugly warmonger sisters.... have lost their minds or they pre arranged with Russia, to bomb some places previously cleared and tarmac. I have not heard of ny deaths yet.
Either way it is illegal, criminal under international law, cowardly as well as highly dangerous.
This Tory government has to go. No mandate and too cowardly to debate in Parliament first.
So who wants Syria totally destroyed and who will benefit?
Take a look at this: It may help to understand. The same group of robbers.
https://genieoilgas.com/about-us/strategic-advisory-board
Genie Oil and Gas
Genie Oil and Gas (GOGAS) is an oil and gas exploration company with two active, early stage exploratory and development projects.
Conventional Resources
In Northern Israel, (the occupied Golan heights of Syria) we are characterizing a significant oil and gas resource pursuant to an exploration license from the government of Israel.
:evilgrin0002:
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Ok let’s have a bit of fun here.
If China for example, decides that it was likely, that the U.K. has been using chemical weapons on its civilians, should they launch an attack on our infrastructure and take out the threats?
And would those who support the Syrian attack feel that this theoretical Chinese attack, be warranted?
:popcorn:
Curious ever hear of Tibet? :coffeeread:
Do you remember Clinton bombing and destroying Yugoslavia......?
:evilgrin0002:
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The whole episode is utterly disgraceful. Teresa May is a coward and war criminal, as was Blair in Iraq, and her other partners, Trump and Macron.
The Tories are on the back foot, Trump is sweating as the FBI is closing in to impeach him and Macron has huge problems.
The whole thing stinks. First the poisoning of the Scripals, without any credible evidence provided. They are still alive......
Wiz
From what you write about me, I know you love your 'conspiracy theories' - but did you ever stop to think ?
1/ THE UK might have clever scientists who made an antidote ?
2/ That credible evidence was shown to other nations - some of whom have never 'taken sides' and they believed the data ?
Then unproven accusations of chemical attack in Duma/Syria and then premature bombing before the inspectors start working.
The site of the chemical outrage was not attacked - why are you not questioning why the Russians blocked a UN inspectorate ?
-
Ok let’s have a bit of fun here.
If China for example, decides that it was likely, that the U.K. has been using chemical weapons on its civilians, should they launch an attack on our infrastructure and take out the threats?
And would those who support the Syrian attack feel that this theoretical Chinese attack, be warranted?
:popcorn:
The Chinese would be within their rights in the modern era .. Sadaam wasn't the first to bomb and gas Kurdish villages in Iraq..Churchill was....
-
Ok let’s have a bit of fun here.
If China for example, decides that it was likely, that the U.K. has been using chemical weapons on its civilians, should they launch an attack on our infrastructure and take out the threats?
And would those who support the Syrian attack feel that this theoretical Chinese attack, be warranted?
:popcorn:
Curious ever hear of Tibet? :coffeeread:
Do you remember Clinton bombing and destroying Yugoslavia......?
:evilgrin0002:
My response to the rhetorical question of Rosco was rhetorical. Wiz while I have always wondered how challenged you are; thank you for confirming this.
Lets see currently some of the former Yugoslavia is largely poor but calm. But this has been the reality for centuries. The exception being Slovenia, Croatia (largely Catholic) and Serbia (mostly Christain Orthodox) who have prospered. This is in that they have excepted Western Democratic norms.
Yugoslavia directly post Tito was run by a bunch of Hitler wannabees who had no problem being genocidal to those that opposed them. In reality some comparisions to post Soviet Union would be interesting.
-
Ok let’s have a bit of fun here.
If China for example, decides that it was likely, that the U.K. has been using chemical weapons on its civilians, should they launch an attack on our infrastructure and take out the threats?
And would those who support the Syrian attack feel that this theoretical Chinese attack, be warranted?
:popcorn:
Curious ever hear of Tibet? :coffeeread:
Do you remember Clinton bombing and destroying Yugoslavia......?
:evilgrin0002:
My response to the rhetorical question of Rosco was rhetorical. Wiz while I have always wondered how challenged you are; thank you for confirming this.
Lets see currently some of the former Yugoslavia is largely poor but calm. But this has been the reality for centuries. The exception being Slovenia, Croatia (largely Catholic) and Serbia (mostly Christain Orthodox) who have prospered. This is in that they have excepted Western Democratic norms.
Yugoslavia directly post Tito was run by a bunch of Hitler wannabees who had no problem being genocidal to those that opposed them. In reality some comparisions to post Soviet Union would be interesting.
I suggest you stop reading the false narrative you were advised and read out of your box the alternative history and then we can talk.
In the 1990's the ex Yugoslavia Federation was a very advanced and strong independent country but the US and it's Vassal Germany decided to split it in small parts.......... and finally the US and its allies bombed and completely destroyed Serbia part of the Federation......economically etc.
Remember that the US even bombed the Chinese Embassy?
Now go back search and read the real history and not the crap you were fed. Plenty of objective sources and sites to find out!
As about my intelligence..... don't worry too much.... I bow to your superior education and brains.........
Your insults don't affect me but shows the type of your character LION.
shalom shalom.....
:biggrin:
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. . . In the 1990's the ex Yugoslavia Federation was a very advanced and strong independent country but the US and it's Vassal Germany decided to split it in small parts.......... and finally the US and its allies bombed and completely destroyed Serbia part of the Federation......economically etc.
My excuses, challenged is a compliment, you seem a bit like Pluto~Πλούτων.
Perhaps you can explain your intel prior to the Yugoslavia divorce and afterwards?
Maybe you know something that is not common knowledge? Please feel to share this information.
NB: You can always bring Volshe into the discussion who already has 'dressed you down'.
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You two lovebirds are :offtopic:.
Back on topic this is an interesting looking site.
http://syriapropagandamedia.org/working-papers/doubts-about-novichoks
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Another unlucky Russian journalist who very sadly accudently fell five floors and died.
Russian reporter Borodin dead after mystery fallhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43781351
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Another unlucky Russian journalist who very sadly accudently fell five floors and died.
Russian reporter Borodin dead after mystery fallhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43781351
Apparently he left a suicide note in the form of an article critising the regime...
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Another unlucky Russian journalist who very sadly accudently fell five floors and died.
Russian reporter Borodin dead after mystery fallhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43781351
Russian journalists have a habit of falling out of windows, catching bullets, choking on rope and accidently eating radioactive poisons. The latest journalist died after writing a piece saying hundreds of Russian mercenaries got killed by American forces in Syria.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43781351
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Another unlucky Russian journalist who very sadly accudently fell five floors and died.
Russian reporter Borodin dead after mystery fallhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43781351
Russian journalists have a habit of falling out of windows, catching bullets, choking on rope and accidently eating radioactive poisons. The latest journalist died after writing a piece saying hundreds of Russian mercenaries got killed by American forces in Syria.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43781351
Western journalists never end up dead when they expose illegal gun-running or other crimes of the CIA now do they? (:)
Serena Shim is an American citizen of Lebanese descent who was born near Detroit. Shim worked for Iranian broadcaster Press TV as a foreign correspondent covering wars, legitimate protests and fake uprisings in multiple countries. She reported live from Syria, Iraq, Turkey, and Lebanon during the conflict since 2011, including in the critical region of Daraa during the beginning of protests, which are misrepresented by American media as the reasons for the fake civil war.
Serena Shim was killed two years ago on October 19, 2014, in Turkey while reporting on the intense battle for the Syrian border city of Kobani which was the focus of international media attention. She was 29 when she died.
https://thefreethoughtproject.com/serena-shim-killed-syria-war-conspiracy/
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1/ THE UK might have clever scientists who made an antidote ?
Oh yes, and they kept that secret! :chuckle:
The "poisoning by Novichok" was fake as most sensible people now know.
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Ok let’s have a bit of fun here.
If China for example, decides that it was likely, that the U.K. has been using chemical weapons on its civilians, should they launch an attack on our infrastructure and take out the threats?
And would those who support the Syrian attack feel that this theoretical Chinese attack, be warranted?
:popcorn:
The Chinese would be within their rights in the modern era .. Sadaam wasn't the first to bomb and gas Kurdish villages in Iraq..Churchill was....
You'll be apologising for the Empire next.
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Another unlucky Russian journalist who very sadly accudently fell five floors and died.
Russian reporter Borodin dead after mystery fallhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43781351
Russian journalists have a habit of falling out of windows, catching bullets, choking on rope and accidently eating radioactive poisons. The latest journalist died after writing a piece saying hundreds of Russian mercenaries got killed by American forces in Syria.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43781351
Agreed, it’s brutal stuff.
Google Dr David Kelly, good read but won’t fit your narrative.
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Ok let’s have a bit of fun here.
If China for example, decides that it was likely, that the U.K. has been using chemical weapons on its civilians, should they launch an attack on our infrastructure and take out the threats?
And would those who support the Syrian attack feel that this theoretical Chinese attack, be warranted?
:popcorn:
Yes, China should be able to bomb UK if they are plotting to use chemical weapons on its own populace. But that is presuming, that "all men are created equal". As seen in centuries past, this is not true. The powerful controls the weaklings. The only way for the weaklings to stand up to the powerful is to "level out the playing field". Similar to what DPRK is attempting to do. Might makes right and you all are just temporary inhabitants on this planet.
“God Created Men and Sam Colt Made Them Equal!”
:chuckle: :fighting0025:
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All Wars Are Bankers' Wars
Are you aware that the Bank of Syria is State Owned where the Federal Bank of the US is Private?
The war in Syria is going on for 7 -8 years..... and the state is still functioning..
Have you read about Aleppo and what is happening there, after a year of liberation?
tiphat
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On March 15th I suggested that I had read - via a link from a Russian - from a Russian forum- that 'Novichok' was designed to be transported as two chemicals - that would be hard to detect if travelling by air ( Binary format ) - that when mixed - make the nerve agent
Well, now - The BBC seem to have found the same source ...
Some of the agents are also said to be "binary weapons", meaning the nerve agent is typically stored as two less toxic chemical ingredients that are easier to handle.
When these are mixed, they react to produce the active toxic agent which can cause convulsions, shortness of breath, profuse sweating and nausea.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43798068 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43798068)
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Hmmmm
So a couple days ago, we're told that the 'cleaners' are coming to Salisbury to cleanse and incinerate the area from all the nasty Russian poison even though the pictures showed government 'cleaners' in full chemical gear as the fire & police stood next to them in uniform. :chuckle:
Now the BBC are telling us that the town is actually safe for both residents and visitors. Weird that....which one is it? :'(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43833582
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According to those who might know - as opposed to a random bloke on a forum, the Russian research program had been unable to create a binary form of the agents in the range under discussion. The U.S., on the other hand, HAD done so and, furthermore, had patented the process having previously asked the relevant authorities in Russia whether there was an issue with patenting the process. This was likely to have been about the concept of 'prior art' whereby a patent can be invalidated if the subject of the patent had been developed previously, even if the prior usage had not been patented.
As I recall, the U.S. patent was specifically about some kind of bullet used to deliver the compound. The clear inference from this was that the U.S. had manufactured the chemicals attributed by the UK government only to Russian sources and had succeeded in delivering the compound in a binary format that had evaded the ability of the USSR.
This means that whether or not the Russians had succeeded in manufacturing the specific compound, which is in some dispute, that they were not the only possible source of that agent.
===============
Rosco, it is quite clear that not everything we have been told by the British government is factually correct. All that we do not know is what is true and what is untrue. Clearly, there is some form of pantomime going on. A couple of simple things about truth: generally, the truth is more simple than lies, the truth is also more consistent because one does not need to work to keep the story consistent.
A question that occurs to me is this: given that those who handle dangerous chemicals are highly trained to act in accordance with standardized, risk-reducing, procedures, just who were the people we saw wandering around in hazmat suits who were not following protocols that they should have been trained in?
I can understand ordinary coppers and fire service folks being unaware of all the protocols but the guys in the green moon-suits? They are a different story. Also, if I were a copper or fireman watching the guys in the green suits I'd have been shitting myself because I would have seen that I was unprotected but working with people who seemed to think they needed protection that I did not have.
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Has anybody has seen any photos of the Scripals ...after the poisoning?
this is the only photo I have seen sofar and it's before.......they were poisoned.
(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2018/03/15/TELEMMGLPICT000156867203_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqyuLFFzXshuGqnr8zPdDWXiTUh73-1IAIBaONvUINpkg.jpeg?imwidth=1240)
??? tiphat
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According to those who might know - as opposed to a random bloke on a forum,
:)) The poster was no random Russian - but someone who worked on the project in the 80's.... carry on
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Just watching "Sum of all fears" - loosely based on a Tom Clancy novel
Renegade Russian generals use Novichok - a new binary nerve agent to shell Grozny ...
Couldn't believe it ....
Tom Clancy employed ex- Soviet, US and UK military advisers
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Yulia Skripal: Attempted assassination turned
my world upside down
Yulia Skripal survived an assassination attempt that UK authorities blame on Russia. But the daughter of one of Russia’s most famous spies says she wants to return to her country “in the longer term”, despite the poisoning.
“The fact that a nerve agent was used to do this is shocking,” Skripal told Reuters in an exclusive statement. “My life has been turned upside down.”
Yulia and her father Sergei Skripal, a former colonel in Russian military intelligence who betrayed dozens of agents to Britain’s MI6 foreign spy service, were found unconscious on a public bench in the British city of Salisbury on March 4.
Yulia Skripal, 33, was in a coma for 20 days.
“I woke to the news that we had both been poisoned,” Skripal said in her first media appearance since the poisoning. She contacted Reuters through the British police.
Skripal was speaking from a secret location in London as she is under the protection of the British state. She was discharged from Salisbury District Hospital about five weeks after the poisoning and has not been seen by the media until now.
Read the article and see the video at the Reuters web site, posted 10 minutes ago, with English sutitles.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-russia-skripal-yulia-exclusiv/yulia-skripal-attempted-assassination-turned-my-world-upside-down-idUKKCN1IO2L5
tiphat
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According to those who might know - as opposed to a random bloke on a forum,
:)) The poster was no random Russian - but someone who worked on the project in the 80's.... carry on
Oh, you worked on this project in the 80's. Wow, you really do get about a bit. I thought you were busy impersonating Timmy Mallet back then. :)
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According to those who might know - as opposed to a random bloke on a forum,
:)) The poster was no random Russian - but someone who worked on the project in the 80's.... carry on
Oh, you worked on this project in the 80's. Wow, you really do get about a bit. I thought you were busy impersonating Timmy Mallet back then. :)
Din't you know that he is a man for all seasons? :o
Why he went to Cyprus.... installing antenna's ONLY.....etc? :biggrin:
:ROFL:
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According to those who might know - as opposed to a random bloke on a forum,
:)) The poster was no random Russian - but someone who worked on the project in the 80's.... carry on
Oh, you worked on this project in the 80's. Wow, you really do get about a bit. I thought you were busy impersonating Timmy Mallet back then. :)
He also claims he was in Libya and Syria prior to those conflicts; convenient huh?
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Oh, you worked on this project in the 80's. Wow, you really do get about a bit. I thought you were busy impersonating Timmy Mallet back then. :)
Naturally, I was referring to a third person
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Isn't it great that Ms Skripal is saying that she hopes to return to Russia one day ?
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Another one bites the dust by accidentally very tragically shooting himself in the back of the head...
Anti-Putin Russian journalist shot dead in Ukraine capital - The Telegraph
https://apple.news/Ayu1LSxj8RIO3qGG8b-1HUw
.
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"Putin's regime takes aim at those who cannot be broken or intimidated,"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/prominent-russian-journalist-shot-dead-kiev-police-192352595.html
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Another one bites the dust by accidentally very tragically shooting himself in the back of the head...
Anti-Putin Russian journalist shot dead in Ukraine capital - The Telegraph
https://apple.news/Ayu1LSxj8RIO3qGG8b-1HUw
.
Although I do not find it strange that anti-putin people keep dying, I am however suspicious of this particular one, since it happened in Kiev.
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There's more to this story than the very convenient framing/programming going on right now.
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Another one bites the dust by accidentally very tragically shooting himself in the back of the head...
Anti-Putin Russian journalist shot dead in Ukraine capital - The Telegraph
https://apple.news/Ayu1LSxj8RIO3qGG8b-1HUw
.
Good thing he's not dead then, for all you putin-haters. It was all a ploy by the Ukrainian secret service to catch his would-be killers.
https://www.rt.com/news/428240-babchenko-alive-special-operation/
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The Russian Foreign ministry said on Wednesday it was happy Babchenko had turned out to be alive after all, but said Ukraine has used his story as propaganda.
Happy? Really? (:)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/kremlin-critic-turns-up-alive-on-tv-after-reported-murder/ar-AAy0HzT?li=BBnbfcL
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Very clever!
These Russians are getting really bad at assassinating people.
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Very clever!
These Russians are getting really bad at assassinating people.
I agree and V Putin should get his act together and kick some asses.....for their failures. They can't have so many failures in their course of duties!
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
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Another one bites the dust by accidentally very tragically shooting himself in the back of the head...
Anti-Putin Russian journalist shot dead in Ukraine capital - The Telegraph
https://apple.news/Ayu1LSxj8RIO3qGG8b-1HUw
.
Good thing he's not dead then, for all you putin-haters. It was all a ploy by the Ukrainian secret service to catch his would-be killers.
https://www.rt.com/news/428240-babchenko-alive-special-operation/
It was rather funny watching Ste get a semi over more fake news though. He couldn't post the original quick enough!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44307611
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Looks like a last minute change of plan. The original story just looked wrong. Implausible, not likely to be true. Now we know that it wasn't true.
Claims being made now by the SBU do not seem credible either. I think that something went wrong and the SBU are trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.
So, yes, a faked murder. But the people the SBU claims to have in custody? I rather think that, if they exist, they are not who they are claimed to be.
It seems that fake assassination is now a thing. A new meme for 2018.
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Looks like a last minute change of plan. The original story just looked wrong. Implausible, not likely to be true. Now we know that it wasn't true.
Claims being made now by the SBU do not seem credible either. I think that something went wrong and the SBU are trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.
So, yes, a faked murder. But the people the SBU claims to have in custody? I rather think that, if they exist, they are not who they are claimed to be.
It seems that fake assassination is now a thing. A new meme for 2018.
Rather annoyingly, I think u r right!
And i didn’t get a semi Rosco, I got a full-on lobber!
.
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Hey, don't be annoyed, that's not productive. Much better to just accept that I am usually right about this stuff. Follow my lead and enjoy life. ;)
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OK, here's what happened. Babchenko (nice Ukrainian name) has been saying nasty stuff about the Ukraine regime. As has happened to others he was targeted for hard sanction, an action that would be blamed on Russia. Somehow he found out about it and a deal was made. His assassination would be faked and Russia and blamed. A great propaganda opportunity and he'd go back to living in Israel under a new identity.
But as World leaders started sending condolences somebody realised that it would not go well for the regime if president Trump sent condolences and messages of support for action against Russia just before Babchenko came back to life.
The fake story was very quickly terminated with a press conference before more messages of condolence arrived from important people. Babchenko can now live in Ukraine but I'd lay odds that he will cease his provocative stories about the Poroshenko regime.
Is there a bloke in custody? Possibly, but if so he'll be dead soon enough when he is caught escaping or committing suicide.
Now there'll be less credibility for mass media, fewer people will believe the programming they receive. This might even give Russia a free pass to top a few annoyances in Kiev.
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Very clever!
These Russians are getting really bad at assassinating people.
I agree and V Putin should get his act together and kick some asses.....for their failures. They can't have so many failures in their course of duties!
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
I guess is says something about the quality of the employees.
Wiz give us a good joke. Today was a royal PITA day. I have never had so many things go sequential wrong on a boat in one afternoon!
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Looks like a last minute change of plan. The original story just looked wrong. Implausible, not likely to be true. Now we know that it wasn't true.
Claims being made now by the SBU do not seem credible either. I think that something went wrong and the SBU are trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.
So, yes, a faked murder. But the people the SBU claims to have in custody? I rather think that, if they exist, they are not who they are claimed to be.
It seems that fake assassination is now a thing. A new meme for 2018.
Rather annoyingly, I think u r right!
And i didn’t get a semi Rosco, I got a full-on lobber!
:ROFL:
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Looks like a last minute change of plan. The original story just looked wrong. Implausible, not likely to be true. Now we know that it wasn't true.
Claims being made now by the SBU do not seem credible either. I think that something went wrong and the SBU are trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.
So, yes, a faked murder. But the people the SBU claims to have in custody? I rather think that, if they exist, they are not who they are claimed to be.
It seems that fake assassination is now a thing. A new meme for 2018.
Rather annoyingly, I think u r right!
And i didn’t get a semi Rosco, I got a full-on lobber!
.
:laugh:
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Another one bites the dust by accidentally very tragically shooting himself in the back of the head...
Anti-Putin Russian journalist shot dead in Ukraine capital - The Telegraph
https://apple.news/Ayu1LSxj8RIO3qGG8b-1HUw
It might surprise some people to note that, in Russia, one is less likely to die of murder as a journalist than the general population. That was not always true. During the 1990's it was genuinely a dangerous time for journos but since Putin was elected the number of their deaths has fallen to far less than the average for the general population.
The numbers do not all come from the same source or year but I think we can assume that they will not have changed hugely in the intervening years between the data sets.
OK. the murder rate in Russia was about 15/100,000 in 2011 (http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Russia/United-States/Crime)
There were about 102,000 print media journalists in Russia in 2005 (http://data.un.org/Data.aspx?d=UNESCO&f=series%3aC_N_550095), obviously, the overall number would be swelled by broadcast journos but I don't have numbers for them so let us underestimate hugely by not considering them. Bear in mind that Babchenko is currently a broadcast journalist (if one counts him as a journo).
Given the number of journalists we would expect that about 15 of them would be murdered each year. The number actually murdered each year has not exceeded 3 since Putin was first elected.
(https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/russian%20journos%20murdered.jpg?itok=UG4Iv7vN)
So, we can see that Russian journalists actually live charmed lives. Ordinary people are at least 500% more likely to die by murder than are journalists.
One thing that might be confusing people is this: the number of journalists working in Russia is huge, a result of a very active print and broadcast news media segment. In the United States, a country with over twice the population there are just 33,000 full-time print journalists (https://www.statista.com/topics/2096/journalism/). So, just by accident, one is likely to see more murdered journalists in Russia than the USA because there are so many of them as compared to the United States.
As I was finishing this post I saw an article ranking countries by safety for journalists (https://www.unz.com/akarlin/journalism-security-index/) it is instructive for those who continue to spout bollox about things they know nothing about. At least, now, nobody reading this post can have the excuse of lack of knowledge. :)
Some interesting points made here about the manner in which facts are presented in a way calculated to upset people such as Ste. (http://akarlin.com/2012/05/russian-journalists-are-far-safer-than-mexican-journalists-ordinary-russians-and-their-own-counterparts-under-yeltsin/) As it happens, if I had found this article first I could have saved myself a load of work, the writer has already done, better than I, what I tried to do above.
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What an unfortunate statistic.
Andrew don’t deal with facts please, many people prefer referencing their own feelings as a programmed default, to assign what is right and what is wrong.
You’re not entitled to your own facts but you may have your own opinion....would be my call.
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There are other factors to consider, the nineties was time of turmoil for the former USSR, very factional, And since Putin has taken power the Kremlin controls the press anyway, so far less opportunity to take an anti-government stance.
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Ste, the simple truth is that the Russian government or state is simply not going round topping journalists. Now you know it is untrue.
I note that you have obviously never seen real Russian news media and that you have no concept of the size of the news media in Russian culture however, even that excuse is no longer available to you.
One point worth noting, almost all the unusual deaths of Russian journalists have occurred either within the Caucasus or are connected directly with the terrorist actions there. Indeed, of those killed, most were killed by anti-government terrorists and jihadists.
Ste, I did not know this stuff until I spent a few moments researching and using a calculator. I started out from a simple premise that where facts are missing from accusations that the facts probably do not support those accusations. It is a simple rule of thumb for analysis and I am sure that you know this stuff but choose to ignore it.
It is sad that you and others prefer to stick with prejudiced fantasies rather than taking a few moments to learn stuff for yourself.
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Ste, the simple truth is that the Russian government or state is simply not going round topping journalists. Now you know it is untrue.
I note that you have obviously never seen real Russian news media and that you have no concept of the size of the news media in Russian culture however, even that excuse is no longer available to you.
One point worth noting, almost all the unusual deaths of Russian journalists have occurred either within the Caucasus or are connected directly with the terrorist actions there. Indeed, of those killed, most were killed by anti-government terrorists and jihadists.
Ste, I did not know this stuff until I spent a few moments researching and using a calculator. I started out from a simple premise that where facts are missing from accusations that the facts probably do not support those accusations. It is a simple rule of thumb for analysis and I am sure that you know this stuff but choose to ignore it.
It is sad that you and others prefer to stick with prejudiced fantasies rather than taking a few moments to learn stuff for yourself.
Fair enough, I get my Russian news from Nadia’s family, they are more dissident than most, but they ITK
.
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What an unfortunate statistic.
Andrew don’t deal with facts please, many people prefer referencing their own feelings as a programmed default, to assign what is right and what is wrong.
You’re not entitled to your own facts but you may have your own opinion....would be my call.
Wow! I’ve got to admit that reading Andrew’s post was eye opening.
The West is engaging in the type of yellow journalism that Great Britain used against Germany prior to WWII. This type of dishonest propaganda is very dangerous.
Now turn to the Guardian’s coverage of the sole Russian journalist killed in the past three years – Khadzhimurad Kamalov, in Dagestan, 2011. The difference begins with the titles. What used to be “Four Mexican journalists murdered in last week” or Brazilian journalist and girlfriend kidnapped and murdered” now becomes “Truth is being murdered in Putin’s bloody Russia.” And it continues in the same vein, with rhetoric being substituted for facts: “Crimes against freedom bathed in slothful impunity”;
Can you see the big difference?
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Andrew, Either you being deliberately dishonest or rather slothful.
Here is a link to an article on Wikipedia > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia <
I must note the figure of 33,000 print journalists seems incredibly low.
From another article and I qoute "Print journalists make up 70% of all murdered journalists in Russia since 1992, and their beats cover a lot of ground, ranging from corruption and politics (same thing) to war, crime, and business (again, same thing?). Frighteningly, ‘unknown’ is tied with ‘criminal groups’ to lead the suspected perpetrator list, followed closely by government officials. Murderers of journalists in Russia enjoy a 91% complete impunity rating.
Anastasiya Baburova was a freelance reporter contributing to the Novaya Gazeta, a Moscow newspaper. She was shot at 3pm on a street within walking distance of the Kremlin on January 19, 2009. She had just covered a press conference by noted human rights lawyer Stanislav Markelov, who denounced the early release of a Russian Army officer convicted for abducting and killing a Chechen girl in 2000.
Markelov and Baburova were walking away from the conference when radical nationalists Nikita Tikhonov and Yevgeniya Khasis approached from behind and shot Markelov in the back of the head. Baburov tried to stop the attack but was shot and killed as well. The nationalists were later arrested in November 2009 and convicted soon thereafter. The Novaya Gazeta appreciates the court’s verdict, but calls for Russian law enforcement to pursue all accomplices as well."
The entire article is here > http://listverse.com/2012/12/13/top10-deadliest-countries-for-journalists/ <
And than there the rather shall we say pro Russia German Spiegel "Putin came to office with the declared goal of restoring the Kremlin's political authority. Vladimir Gusinsky, the country's most important media entrepreneur, was arrested about five months later. His media holding company -- including the TV channel NTW -- was taken over by Gazprom, the state-controlled natural gas monopoly.
The Kremlin proceeded to let companies closely associated with the government purchase one publishing house after the other. In September, one such company acquired the Kommersant publishing group, distinguished by its high print runs and -- until then -- its critical stance towards the government."
> http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/russian-journalist-murdered-is-russia-s-press-freedom-dead-a-443543.html <
Reality sucks in some peoples world.
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Read the links I provided. Understand the words written. Read the link you shared, understand what was written about the higher claims made and how they include all forms of premature death. The article itself makes the point quite clearly.
Then get out your calculator and see that even higher numbers still show that journalists have a lower murder rate than the general population.
By the way, if you have an authoritative source that supports a significantly higher number of print journalists in the USA please share. The number I shared fits with my general knowledge of the matter. But then you are probably unaware of the differences between the news media in the USA and Russia which make the disparity in headcount understandable.
Get back to me before you get too drunk and apologise for your intemperacy. It would seem that when you are too far in your cups your ability to understand what you read is severely impaired.
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Andrew, Either you being deliberately dishonest or rather slothful.
Here is a link to an article on Wikipedia > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia <
I must note the figure of 33,000 print journalists seems incredibly low.
From another article and I qoute "Print journalists make up 70% of all murdered journalists in Russia since 1992, and their beats cover a lot of ground, ranging from corruption and politics (same thing) to war, crime, and business (again, same thing?). Frighteningly, ‘unknown’ is tied with ‘criminal groups’ to lead the suspected perpetrator list, followed closely by government officials. Murderers of journalists in Russia enjoy a 91% complete impunity rating.
Anastasiya Baburova was a freelance reporter contributing to the Novaya Gazeta, a Moscow newspaper. She was shot at 3pm on a street within walking distance of the Kremlin on January 19, 2009. She had just covered a press conference by noted human rights lawyer Stanislav Markelov, who denounced the early release of a Russian Army officer convicted for abducting and killing a Chechen girl in 2000.
Markelov and Baburova were walking away from the conference when radical nationalists Nikita Tikhonov and Yevgeniya Khasis approached from behind and shot Markelov in the back of the head. Baburov tried to stop the attack but was shot and killed as well. The nationalists were later arrested in November 2009 and convicted soon thereafter. The Novaya Gazeta appreciates the court’s verdict, but calls for Russian law enforcement to pursue all accomplices as well."
The entire article is here > http://listverse.com/2012/12/13/top10-deadliest-countries-for-journalists/ <
And than there the rather shall we say pro Russia German Spiegel "Putin came to office with the declared goal of restoring the Kremlin's political authority. Vladimir Gusinsky, the country's most important media entrepreneur, was arrested about five months later. His media holding company -- including the TV channel NTW -- was taken over by Gazprom, the state-controlled natural gas monopoly.
The Kremlin proceeded to let companies closely associated with the government purchase one publishing house after the other. In September, one such company acquired the Kommersant publishing group, distinguished by its high print runs and -- until then -- its critical stance towards the government."
> http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/russian-journalist-murdered-is-russia-s-press-freedom-dead-a-443543.html <
Reality sucks in some peoples world.
:offtopic:
Andrew .....isn't just amazing........ from such a long post.... the amount of his own contribution amounts to 3 and 1/2 Lines?
Copy and Paste it's only my speciality and those that claim to be "Holier Than Thou" don't do such things......god bless them! :ROFL:
BTW AvHdB... I agree with your comment:
Reality sucks in some peoples world. :nod: :biggrin:
Sorry for the interruption... but I could not resist to point this out. ;D
BACK ON TOPIC:
May I point out that WikiPedia it's not anymore a reliable source because the Tell Aviv Trolls have been revising many articles to give a different view. Search Jerusalem Post to find out their paid up activities.
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"The contents of any lists, comments or other published content on Listverse Limited’s website(s) are not the views or opinions of Listverse Limited, its related entities, or staff.
Any reliance placed on material posted on Listverse Limited website(s) is done at your own risk."
tiphat
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The West is engaging in the type of yellow journalism that Great Britain used against Germany prior to WWII. This type of dishonest propaganda is very dangerous.
Now turn to the Guardian’s coverage of the sole Russian journalist killed in the past three years – Khadzhimurad Kamalov, in Dagestan, 2011. The difference begins with the titles. What used to be “Four Mexican journalists murdered in last week” or Brazilian journalist and girlfriend kidnapped and murdered” now becomes “Truth is being murdered in Putin’s bloody Russia.” And it continues in the same vein, with rhetoric being substituted for facts: “Crimes against freedom bathed in slothful impunity”;
Can you see the big difference?
The manner in which directly comparable stories is framed is very interesting and, when one understands what is going on, quite enlightening. Well spotted! This was, for me, about the most important part of that article.
I came upon this issue of framing when I was doing my work on IMBRA and the international marriage agency business. It was quite clear that language was being used to manipulate opinion in that context. Since then I have become much more sensitive to this aspect of our news media. It should be remembered that the framing of our news is almost always carried over into non-news references and that is almost certainly the desired effect because in that way the framing becomes the accepted truth and context.
With regard to Wikipedia, I tend to not rely upon Wikipedia except as a jumping off point or to share information with other readers in cases where it is easier to use a Wikipedia link when dealing with people who show signs of knowing almost nothing about a given topic. You'll notice that, as in my post above, I tend to refer to sources as close as possible to the original data. That means one can argue about the data only where one can show a better source. The source that AvHdB used was inappropriate because it was clearly not close to original data and was polluted with irrelevant data points - people dying of heart attacks are rarely homicide victims. :)
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Andrew, How predictable can you be? You will not discuss facts and instead try to rubbish the poster and facts. You are a sad little guy, but feel free to keep on trying.
Quoting from the Wikipedia link are the following names and persons since 2012:
2012
7 July – Journalist Alexander Khodzinsky was stabbed to death by local businessman and former deputy mayor Gennady Zhigarev in Tulun, Irkutsk Oblast. Khodzinsky campaigned against abusive and illegal practices in the construction of a shopping mall in the town center since 2007 and would regular complain to president Dmitry Medvedev and governor Dmitry Mezentsev about the issue.[140]
5 December – Journalist Kazbek Gekkiev was shot dead at a street in Nalchik, Kabardino-Balkaria, after receiving death threats from local extremists. Gekkiev worked for various local TV programs in the republic.
2013
9 July – Journalist Akhmednabi Akhmednabiyev was killed while driving just 50 metres from his house on the outskirts of Makhachkala, Dagestan, after receiving numerous death threats. Akhmednabiyev was the deputy editor of the newspaper Novoe Delo and regularly wrote about the politics of the republic and human rights issues in the North Caucasus. He was previously the victim of an assassination attempt back in January 2013.
2014
1 August – Journalist and human rights activist Timur Kuashev was abducted from his home and later found dead in Nalchik, Kabardino-Balkaria.[146] Kuashev worked for the magazine Dosh and received death threats and was previously stopped by local police a number of times.
2016
March 31 – Journalist Dmitry Tsilikin was stabbed to death in his flat in Saint Petersburg.[148] The suspected killer is neo-nazi Sergey Kosyrev. The murder is attributed to Tsilikin's homosexual orientation.
2017
March 17 – Journalist Yevgeny Khamaganov died of unexplained causes in Ulan-Ude, Buryatia. Khamaganov was known for writing articles that criticized the federal government and was allegedly beaten by unknown assailants on March 10.
April 19 – Journalist and former prisoner of conscience Nikolay Andrushchenko died in Saint Petersburg from wounds that he received from a severe beating by unknown assailants on March 9. Andrushchenko was the co-founder of the newspaper Novy Petersburg and was previously jailed in 2009 by a city court for "libel and extremism".
May 24 – Journalist Dmitry Popkov was found dead from gunshot wounds at a bathhouse close to his home in Minusinsk, Krasnoyarsk Krai. Popkov was the chief editor of the newspaper Ton-M and was known for investigating police corruption.
September 8 - The body of journalist Andrey Ruskov was found in the Bira River in Birobidzhan, Jewish Autonomous Oblast. Ruskov worked for the Bestvideo Broadcasting Studio.
2018
April 15 – Investigative journalist Maksim Borodin died of injuries from falling out of a window at his apartment in Yekaterinburg, Sverdlovsk Oblast, on April 12. Authorities classified the death as suicide while colleagues reject the notion. Borodin regularly wrote on crime, corruption, and the recent involvement of Russian mercenaries in Syria.
Interesting to compare to what you posted. While I also tend to go beyond Wiki for facts there are full links that you can check if you wish not to be indolent. Worth noting no one above mentioned died from a heart attack.
It is not possible to find out the methodology for the 33,000 number you mention and maintain but I still guess in the United States there are allot more journalists working than this number. I suspect allot of this has to do with definitions. As an example I will assume Hunter Thompson would not have been considered a full time journalist. But the criteria are not visible, if you have a subscription please share this info, I am curious.
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AvHdB
You forgot your advice to me... to post my sources....links.....etc :whistle: and of course YOU do not do what you are preaching! :rolleye0009:
To be helpful here is the Link of the favoured site.... of the Zionist Trolls from Tel Aviv. :-X
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia
... intolent .... how quaint of you! :ROFL:
:fighting0025: ;D
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Quoting from the Wikipedia link are the following names and persons since 2012:
AvHdB
You forgot your advice to me... to post my sources....links.....etc :whistle: and of course YOU do not do what you are preaching! :rolleye0009:
To be helpful here is the Link of the favoured site.... of the Zionist Trolls from Tel Aviv. :-X
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia
Dear Wiz,
It is clear you have some deep challenges. I am curious did you read the Wikipedia link that I already noted and quoted up thread. I assume you needed to remove your socks and shoes to see the incongruity with the number of journalists killed compared to the years that Andrew posted on his graph.
As I said there is something pathetic regarding those who decide to rubbish the links (without looking at them) and dismissing the poster. Using there tasteless Avatar avatar to say there thoughts. But it reveals who you are.
By the way I am not sure what intolent means but to assist your English comprehension indolent means: averse to activity, effort, or movement : habitually lazy I think my computer defaults to Merriam-Webster for the dictionary.
Av
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Quoting from the Wikipedia link are the following names and persons since 2012:
Whatever you say does not change the Fact that you did not posted the full link, as you demanded countless time from me! :smokin:
What it's good for the goose ... it's good for the gander, they say in UK!
Practise what you are preaching and demand from all of us!
:fighting0025:
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The English poet E. Sitwell noted.
I am patient with stupidity but not those who are proud of it.
It fits you well.
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The English poet E. Sitwell noted.
I am patient with stupidity but not those who are proud of it.
It fits you well.
In Greece we say:
"The donkey is calling the cock ..... Big head!"
and in the UK say: "It takes one to know one" :ROFL:
Now back to your trolling shift!
tiphat
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The English poet E. Sitwell noted.
I am patient with stupidity but not those who are proud of it.
It fits you well.
In Greece we say:
"The donkey is calling the cock ..... Big head!"
and in the UK say: "It takes one to know one" :ROFL:
Now back to your trolling shift!
tiphat
Wiz, just call him a “ronmo”. That way he’ll understand you. :chuckle: :-X
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It is an interesting question.
Are Sergei Skripal sanctions hitting Russian buying and selling at UK auctions?
Hostile relations between Russia and the West following attempted poisoning of former MI6 spy may dampen bidding at London's Russian sales
Georgina Adam
4th June 2018 13:55 GMT
On 15 May at Christie’s New York, Kazimir Malevich’s Suprematist Composition (1916) sold for a record $86m. Major Malevich paintings of unquestionable provenance, such as Suprematist Composition, are rare, but on 20 June Christie’s London is due to sell a very different kind of Malevich—a landscape from 1911 (est £7m-£10m). As with the Suprematist Composition, Landscape is being offered in the firm’s Impressionist and Modern art sale rather than a Russian auction.
As Jay Vincze, Christie’s international director of Impressionist and Modern, says: “[Malevich] is more established globally than, say, Goncharova or Larionov.” But while the international appeal of Malevich is unquestioned, what about other Russian material? Are hostile relations between Russia and the West having a dampening effect on consigning, and will Russian buyers be shunning the June sales in London? The imposition of sanctions after the invasion of Crimea in 2014 was followed this year by mutual expulsions of diplomats and more sanctions by the UK after the attempted nerve-gas poisoning in Salisbury of the former MI6 spy Sergei Skripal.
“We need to wait to see what happens, but almost certainly there will be a drop in Russian buying,” says James Butterwick, a specialist dealer. “Russians aren’t buying at the moment, partly for psychological reasons—and they aren’t selling either.”
However, a well-known London-based art advisor says: “There are a couple of important clients still active at the top end. But there is a problem in the middle market. Buyers here have disappeared, and I believe the auction-house specialists are really concerned about bringing in the consignments.”
Daria Khristova, a Russian specialist at Bonhams, concurs. “Last year we lost major Ukrainian buyers, and now some of our Russian clients don’t come to London, although they do bid online,” she says, shortly after returning from Moscow. “People feel uncomfortable, and Russian television is recommending not to travel to the UK or Europe. Don’t forget—they don’t believe Russia is responsible for the nerve-gas attack: they have the opposite point of view.” Khristova’s 6 June sale is modest, though in line with previous sessions. Its target is just £1.7m-£2.5m for 125 lots.
All this, she says, has badly “affected the clients for decorative works”. But there are still other buyers—last June, a Chinese and an Indian bidder fought for a 19th-century Russian porcelain service which sold for £112,500, with no Russian under-bidders.
The specialist auctioneer William MacDougall says private treaty sales are “strong” and he is “cautiously optimistic” for his 6 June sale in London, which is estimated at over £10m—“about what we made last November”. “The rise in oil prices, which have doubled in the last 12 months, is definitely benefiting the market,” he says.
Jo Vickery, the leading expert in Russian paintings at Sotheby’s, describes the effect of sanctions as “milder than most people expected”. Sourcing for her 5 June sale was done “at the height of the Salisbury affair”, she says, which made some sellers nervous. But eventually they did consign. “The sale [estimated at £8.2m-£11.9m] is comparable to other years,” Vickery says. [/color]
From the ArtNewspaper > https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/are-sanctions-hitting-russian-buying-and-selling-at-uk-auctions?utm_source=daily_june5_2018&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email_daily&utm_source=The+Art+Newspaper+Newsletters&utm_campaign=d6ebebdedd-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_06_04_05_27&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c459f924d0-d6ebebdedd-60965413 <
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I told her the difference between "Privet" and Zdrastvyuete" in Russian and she didn't even know!! Can you believe it. Someone who says they are fluent in Russian yet can't distinguish the difference.
Basically that told me that she doesn't even use Russian in her daily life.
Zdrastvuyte or better Здраствуйте
It may help you to know that in the West of Ukraine, especially around Lvov, they speak Ukrainian and not Russian.
It may also help if you read a little history and learn about Stalin's actions against the local population, after the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact) and also ... Holodomor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor) then you may understand more about Kathy.... (Boethius - Halo).
tiphat
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Whilst entertaining on a Monday morning, the above has nothing to do with the family Skripal, Novochik and matters regarding relations between Russia/Ukraine and the West.
NB: Halo, Thank you for providing a bit of background on moderating, it would be great if there was more transparency. Sometimes unfortunately moderation is done quite ad hoc as the need arises.
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Recently two more people have been poisoned in the U.K. and Dawn Sturgess has died from it.
LONDON — A 44-year-old British woman who was exposed to a nerve agent died on Sunday, bringing new urgency to a four-month-old diplomatic standoff in which Britain has accused Russia of sending the poison to a small city in southern England in a botched attempt to kill a former spy.
The British authorities have now opened a murder investigation.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2018/07/08/world/europe/uk-dawn-sturgess-novichok-salisbury.amp.html
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Just heard the news about the female victim of what is believed to be the biological weapon exposure dying. First fatality to be linked to the agent. Somebody is responsible for this "leak", so hopefully we can find the "appropriate scapegoat". :chuckle:
Here is a something OT that I just came across about a murder in Georgia (not the US location).
Ryan Smith, his wife, Lora Smith, and their son, Caleb, were pronounced dead when their bodies were found last week, days after the family was killed on July 4
Killed on Independence Day. :snivel:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/07/09/father-toddler-son-shot-dead-in-georgia-mother-falls-into-ravine-while-fleeing-attacker-officials-say.html
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Doesn’t even warrant Area 51, reading post after post from some no mark e-humping another members leg is a maximum turn-off, not forgetting having zero interest in who does what at another forum we shouldn’t give a toss about.
+1,000
You should post more often, Mr. Bruce Lee!
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https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4457110/internet-trolls/ :-*
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Guile and Halo,
Your personal argument has no place on a public board on RUA. All posts are deleted. Further posts will go the same way and moderation action will follow.
If you must argue in this way do so via PM.
Thread locked for cool down period.
Now unlocked. Please stay on topic.
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..and now the UK has issued European Arrest Warrants for two Russian nationals in connection with the Skripal case and murder of a UK citizen ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45421445 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45421445)
There is no extradition treaty between the UK and RF
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OK, here's what happened.
There now follows the andrewfi version of 'fact' - with corrections from me
Babchenko (nice Ukrainian name) has been saying nasty stuff about the Ukraine regime.
Reporting on serial corruption is 'bad' ?
BTW one of his Grandad's was born near Kherson - on the Sea of Azov - having a name ending in 'O' has no significance in Russia ...
As has happened to others he was targeted for hard sanction, an action that would be blamed on Russia.
Andrewfi 'forgets' to inform us that he wrote a book about his time as a soldier in Chechn'ya - THAT did not enamour him with the Kremlin ... Perhaps he is a journo who reports what he is - irrespective of the risk to his health ?
Somehow he found out about it
.. 'he' or the SBU ?
and a deal was made. His assassination would be faked and Russia and blamed. A great propaganda opportunity and he'd go back to living in Israel under a new identity.
or .. his murder would be faked to flush out the team behind the plan....?
The rest is pure afi tosh ...
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Fair play to the two guys who came over and TRIED to assassinate the traitor..
So he should be shot, hung or what ever.. its what every country does if you commit treason..
Im just a bit surprised it was such a bodge job..
I could of done a lot better and cleaner job myself..there would of been no mess .. :laugh:
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Wassup moby, has your latest 'bizniz' venture gone down the tubes? The boredom must be really killing you at the moment and you can't even go camp out in the library with the other dolies, like you could in England - you don't have the requisite skill set to manage that.
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Wassup moby, has your latest 'bizniz' venture gone down the tubes? The boredom must be really killing you at the moment and you can't even go camp out in the library with the other dolies, like you could in England - you don't have the requisite skill set to manage that.
??
I'm sure someone can fathom what andrewfi's latest brainfart moment has got to do with Kremlin away games in third countries ..
1/ I've never been on the Dole - in 'England' or anywhere - you know that - but you being an honest chap - you just 'forgot '...
2/ You haven't the first clue about how wonderfully rosey 'the garden' looks on the biz front .. THAT much is clear ....
3/ Library ...? Who goes there in a digital age ...? It is wonderful to download from the Library's app, though
How about you deal with the thread title and let me 'worry' about looking after loved ones and life.... in spite of my 'failings' ? :coffeeread:
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Yeah, right ..
(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/AC2F/production/_103397044_spy_timeline_overview_v2-nc.png)
They flew in to London - went to a residential area of Salisbury - where Skripal lived and LEFT ...
Two Russian guys on BIZ (?)Visa's ..who did they meet and while such a short a stay and WHY go to a residential Salisbury street..?
BTW: Stonehenge has paths to prevent guests getting muddy
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45509697 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45509697)
Who STILL believes the Kremlin, anymore ?
Who'd fly to Moscow, go to say- Ivanovo - and fly back the next day ? ...
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It is interesting that the boards 'management' are leaving my posts in the awaiting moderation section ..
Well, now even RT's leading lady is finding the seat too hot as she hung up on the BBCs Kirsty Wark
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-45523026/russia-today-editor-in-chief-hangs-up-on-bbc (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-45523026/russia-today-editor-in-chief-hangs-up-on-bbc)
NOW we find that two Russians were expelled from NL over attempts to hack the SWiss labs testing the Noichok agent used in Salisbury..
https://www.expatica.com/nl/news/country-news/Netherlands-Switzerland-espionage-Russia-Britain_2096307.html (https://www.expatica.com/nl/news/country-news/Netherlands-Switzerland-espionage-Russia-Britain_2096307.html)
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They flew in to London - went to a residential area of Salisbury - where Skripal lived and LEFT ...
Two Russian guys on BIZ (?)Visa's ..who did they meet and while such a short a stay and WHY go to a residential Salisbury street..?
BTW: Stonehenge has paths to prevent guests getting muddy
Who STILL believes the Kremlin, anymore ?
Who'd fly to Moscow, go to say- Ivanovo - and fly back the next day ? ...
I'm with you on this one Moby.
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For people like Moby who don't need visas :) it is not uncommon to travel on them. Indeed, many tourists to Russia have used them.
Skripal's home is near the centre of Salisbury. It is a small place with residential areas near to the railway station and tourist attractions. Actually, that feature makes the place more attractive on a short visit. When I was there a few months ago I managed to walk in the wrong direction and past loads of homes while walking in the direction, as I thought, of the cathedral. There has been no credible suggestion that these guys were anywhere near to Skripal's home.
Stonehenge was closed at the time of their visit due to the inclement weather. Public transport was on a reduced service outside of the city.
I am sure that you know this stuff and, of course, you know about business visas because that's the basis of your extended sojourn in Russia, right? You're just killing time again by trying to troll anyone you come across, yes?
As it happens though, for the UK one does not need a business visa to carry out business here. The business visa is for those looking to settle in the UK. I have not seen anything claiming that they had a business visa or that they were planning to settle in the UK - have you, or are you just inventing stuff, yet again?
Is it even possible to claim the dole while you mope around in Russia doing 'bizniz'?
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They flew in to London - went to a residential area of Salisbury - where Skripal lived and LEFT ...
Two Russian guys on BIZ (?)Visa's ..who did they meet and while such a short a stay and WHY go to a residential Salisbury street..?
BTW: Stonehenge has paths to prevent guests getting muddy
Who STILL believes the Kremlin, anymore ?
Who'd fly to Moscow, go to say- Ivanovo - and fly back the next day ? ...
I'm with you on this one Moby.
Fair play to the two guys!! They were just trying to get rid of a guy who committed treason and in fact still was up to a few months back..
Bit of a lousy job though!! I would of just knocked on his door and shot him in the face much less hassle..
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This shoddy job is reminding me less and less of a state actor, let alone a state like Russia that usually has their shit together very well.
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This shoddy job is reminding me less and less of a state actor
Very smart people will do a criminal job in a way to get us to believe stupid people did.
Even if the UK finds the guilty party, What are they going to do? UK is just going to have to get used to radioactive and chemical substances being imported into their country. :GRAVE:
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and now we have the andrewfi's useful idiot playing 'devil's advocate' :laugh:
For people like Moby who don't need visas :) it is not uncommon to travel on them. Indeed, many tourists to Russia have used them.
'Funny thing', andrewfi - I DO travel to Russia on a biz visa and DO take in some tourist - time..
I even manage to do some biz meetings ...What biz meetings did our GRU ( military intelligence ) chaps do ..apart from trying to kill their target and managing to kill someone else with a nerve agent ?
Skripal's home is near the centre of Salisbury. It is a small place with residential areas near to the railway station and tourist attractions. Actually, that feature makes the place more attractive on a short visit. When I was there a few months ago I managed to walk in the wrong direction and past loads of homes while walking in the direction, as I thought, of the cathedral. There has been no credible suggestion that these guys were anywhere near to Skripal's home.
:chuckle:
I suspect andrewfi hasn't actually paid attention to what has been claimed by the 'tourists' who obtained a visa to do 'biz' - reminding you that's EXACTLY the visa status I use in Russia.. I wouldn't use Moscow as a base to visit Yaroslavl on two consecutive days and 'forget' the name of a tourist attraction I wanted to see ( Old Sarum) was 'closed'
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/13/skripal-suspects-account-of-salisbury-trip-does-not-add-up
(https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/13/skripal-suspects-account-of-salisbury-trip-does-not-add-up)
As it happens though, for the UK one does not need a business visa to carry out business here. The business visa is for those looking to settle in the UK. I have not seen anything claiming that they had a business visa or that they were planning to settle in the UK - have you, or are you just inventing stuff, yet again?
Funny that I didn't miss the status of their Visas.. and unlike you - I DO know about UK biz visas and Russians..
I have JUST helped two Russian nationals apply for UK General Visitor Visas (based on a Business trip ) and the reasons for applying for such trips are: businesses meetings, board meetings - if shareholders / directors of UK companies, meetings re prototypes and testing and IF these Russians were planning to settle - I think they'd have stayed in Salisbury - given their' interest'in the place - and longer - like my Russian businessmen..
As ever, it is clear that andrewfi's vision of folks lives are at variance with reality ..
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1846/43968794364_bfc87086c6_z.jpg)
Some of us actually live the life andrewfi can only try to Google ....
'Is it even possible to claim the dole while you mope around in Russia doing 'bizniz'?
So WHO is the guy making stuff up, bearing in mind one of us lives the life you need to Google about?
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This shoddy job is reminding me less and less of a state actor
Very smart people will do a criminal job in a way to get us to believe stupid people did.
Even if the UK finds the guilty party, What are they going to do? UK is just going to have to get used to radioactive and chemical substances being imported into their country. :GRAVE:
The UK will never do anything again whilst they have a spineless government!
Unlike the days when Maggie was in power.. dam Argentinians invaded the Falklands next day the fleet was on the way to kick their asses!
Those days are finished and so is the UK.. :GRAVE:
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I think it is pretty sad that diplomacy and misdirection means that the real info might never come out.
Meanwhile
Bellingcat has been able to confirm the actual identity of one of the two officers. The suspect using the cover identity of “Ruslan Boshirov” is in fact Colonel Anatoliy Chepiga, a highly decorated GRU officer bestowed with Russia’s highest state award, Hero of the Russian Federation. Following Bellingcat’s own identification, multiple sources familiar with the person and/or the investigation have confirmed the suspect’s identity.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/09/26/skripal-suspect-boshirov-identified-gru-colonel-anatoliy-chepiga/ (https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/09/26/skripal-suspect-boshirov-identified-gru-colonel-anatoliy-chepiga/)
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My favourite part of this whole thing has been the humour of course. So much misdirection and incorrect info being thrown around that you see Kremlin trolls everywhere, even here.
Twitter! Now there you can find some good quick politcal humour...a poll on twitter:
Can you help two friends of mine? They’re coming to the UK, but only for 2 days. With time so tight, which two places should they visit?
33% LONDON AND EDINBURGH
06% OXFORD AND CAMBRIDGE
16% MANCHESTER AND LIVERPOOL
45% SALISBURY AND SALISBURY
Hahahaha. Laughable. :)
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This report has photos of 4 Russian spies being evicted by the Dutch, caught redhanded and their laptops examined, from back in April it seems.
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russian-spies-targeted-mh17-files-says-dutch-defence-minister/news-story/8c6f11ca553e51dbd8990231f6f39008
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Moby, while it is sometimes fun to read your deconstruction of the posts of myself and others I am sometimes saddened to see how, in your rush to get a post allowed past our wonderful mod team, you forget to read the post(s) that you are so avidly trying to criticise.
Go back, reread my words with your happy hat affixed to your head. See how you misread or misunderstood what you saw?
Try reading slowly and posting even more so, there's a good forum destitute.
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Try reading slowly and posting even more so, there's a good forum destitute.
Nought was 'misread' ... you posted bolllox and got busted - by someone who knows the thing you only google ..
In the meantime you'll note that the Kremlin seems to be finding it's 'away games' ( and players ) are being increasingly being found out ....
1/ UK
2 /Switzerland
3/ Netherlands ..
4/ Ukraine ...
The same faces that were 'secret heroes' are now unprofessional criminals
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This report has photos of 4 Russian spies being evicted by the Dutch, caught redhanded and their laptops examined, from back in April it seems.
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russian-spies-targeted-mh17-files-says-dutch-defence-minister/news-story/8c6f11ca553e51dbd8990231f6f39008
And impounded their car, that somehow had a complete hackers-wifi outfit in the trunk .
The .au link is pretty complete textwise, but the dutch source has some more piccies:
https://www.ad.nl/dossier-hackaanval-opcw/nederland-verijdelt-hackaanval-russen-op-opcw~a4c7f2c8/
Another dutch article mentioned that these spies made many misstakes its almost like they wanted to be caught.
To err is human, even for spies, the article concludes.
I'm starting to think false-flag instead.
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can't be false flag when they're on Russian Diplomatic passports and put on Planes to Moscow.....just inept
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the "cathedral tourisits" were very quickly unmasked by their neighbours and school classmates.....inept also
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This report has photos of 4 Russian spies being evicted by the Dutch, caught redhanded and their laptops examined, from back in April it seems.
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russian-spies-targeted-mh17-files-says-dutch-defence-minister/news-story/8c6f11ca553e51dbd8990231f6f39008
And impounded their car, that somehow had a complete hackers-wifi outfit in the trunk .
The .au link is pretty complete textwise, but the dutch source has some more piccies:
https://www.ad.nl/dossier-hackaanval-opcw/nederland-verijdelt-hackaanval-russen-op-opcw~a4c7f2c8/
Another dutch article mentioned that these spies made many misstakes its almost like they wanted to be caught.
To err is human, even for spies, the article concludes.
I'm starting to think false-flag instead.
This report has photos of 4 Russian spies being evicted by the Dutch, caught redhanded and their laptops examined, from back in April it seems.
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russian-spies-targeted-mh17-files-says-dutch-defence-minister/news-story/8c6f11ca553e51dbd8990231f6f39008
can't be false flag when they're on Russian Diplomatic passports and put on Planes to Moscow.....just inept
Sort of amusing, but than again it is sort of sad to see 'RUA Team Russia' when the evidence points strongly at Russia being guilty raises a number of standard defenses, 'Russophobia', False-Flag, and no real proof.
Common sense and/or critical thinking is not the strong part of the some posters of RUA.
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Despite claims that they were trying to help, the general prosecutor’s office did everything it could to block the Scotland Yard investigation
Well, he will not be around anymore to block the investigations. (:)
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-official-linked-to-natalia-veselnitskaya-the-trump-tower-lawyer-is-dead
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Despite claims that they were trying to help, the general prosecutor’s office did everything it could to block the Scotland Yard investigation
Well, he will not be around anymore to block the investigations. (:)
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-official-linked-to-natalia-veselnitskaya-the-trump-tower-lawyer-is-dead
That is rather (in)convienyent for the Kremlin.
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the "cathedral tourisits" were very quickly unmasked by their neighbours and school classmates.....inept also
That is simply untrue!
Only one person claimed that she had seen a bloke like Bashirov and was somewhat willing to identify him as having another name when he was a kid but she was absolutely unwilling to be identified by name. Unless I am very much mistaken, nobody around Bashirov has claimed he has a different name.
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can't be false flag when they're on Russian Diplomatic passports and put on Planes to Moscow.....just inept
Why cant it be a false flag. What if they are a diversion while team #2 does something more nefarious.
Today a passport photo of 1 of those 4 russkis was linked to a dating profile in murmansk where he poses before the gru building.
The 'oh come on.....' alarm is in full strength here
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Andrewfi and Markje
Do you realise how hilarious you come across ... you take 'useful idiot' to a whole new level ..
ALL the Kremlin can do is deny and obfuscate when it is clear that the away games in yet another third nation have been busted ...
From shooting down civilian airliners to murder / attempted murders of those that displease it is time to wake up and realise that this is a bunch of former KGB failures trying to 'correct history' and the result is that their own citizens are embarrassed by their resulting howlers
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Sort of amusing, but than again it is sort of sad to see 'RUA Team Russia' when the evidence points strongly at Russia being guilty raises a number of standard defenses, 'Russophobia', False-Flag, and no real proof.
Common sense and/or critical thinking is not the strong part of the some posters of RUA.
Extremely offensive and unsubstantiated comments from the TROLL representative of the IsraHel Defence department in Haifa.
Judging from your post numbers in your avatar, your various incoherent comments and personal rude attacks to other members who don't follow the Haifa Narrative.... or dare to express freely their views, I have to say that you are not paid well or enough to cover the cost of your loyal friend, Vino, at your 24 hours shift........
I am surprised that other active members tolerate your abysmal and atrocious behaviour on this Board, who for many years has been frequented by many very intelligent and "married " people to a Russian/Ukrainian woman, unlike your self.!
>:(
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Extremely offensive and unsubstantiated comments
The truth hurts, Wiz ?
I am surprised that other active members tolerate your abysmal and atrocious behaviour on this Board, who for many years has been frequented by many very intelligent and "married " people to a Russian/Ukrainian woman, unlike your self.!
>:(
??
Under which category does AvHdB fail your 'criteria' ? ;) Coming from a serial plagiarist - in denial - despite links to the original's work - I found this post HILARIOUS
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..and now Bellingcat reveal the second 'Russian Tourist" ..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45791378 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45791378)
Skripal attack: Bellingcat names second Salisbury suspect
"The Bellingcat investigative website says the man who travelled under the alias Alexander Petrov is a military doctor working for Russian intelligence."
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Extremely offensive and unsubstantiated comments
The truth hurts, Wiz ?
What truth.... As usual one mental case comes in support of another one and you both talking Bollocks without credible or any evidence?
I have already told you, that you (both) spent too much time on your own enjoying your selves!
I am surprised that other active members tolerate your abysmal and atrocious behaviour on this Board, who for many years has been frequented by many very intelligent and "married " people to a Russian/Ukrainian woman, unlike your self.!
>:(
??
Under which category does AvHdB fail your 'criteria' ? ;) Coming from a serial plagiarist - in denial - despite links to the original's work - I found this post HILARIOUS
You just proved my comments to AV and also that both of you are TROLLS and a waste of time talking to! If you have a problem understanding simple plain language, I suggest you go back to the asylum you managed to escape temporary!
And that is for you both to watch and enjoy!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRkPU1fKchI :evilgrin0002:
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You just proved my comments to AV and also that both of you are TROLLS and a waste of time talking to! If you have a problem understanding simple plain language, I suggest you go back to the asylum you managed to escape temporary!
Never mind the English usages issues with Wiz, most of us understand him.
Anyone who disagrees with his Lordship Wiz is labelled a troll. If you strongly question or challenge his opinions than there are more labels and slander, just get used to it.
Most present see where Moby and Wiz come from and accept it for what it is.
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You just proved my comments to AV and also that both of you are TROLLS and a waste of time talking to! If you have a problem understanding simple plain language, I suggest you go back to the asylum you managed to escape temporary!
Never mind the English usages issues with Wiz, most of us understand him.
Anyone who disagrees with his Lordship Wiz is labelled a troll. If you strongly question or challenge his opinions than there are more labels and slander, just get used to it.
Most present see where Moby and Wiz come from and accept it for what it is.
I suggest go back and read my post 415 again, then get off the bottle for awhile and answer to my accusations, of no evidence for your comments.
That is what I posted:
"Extremely offensive and unsubstantiated comments from the TROLL representative of the IsraHel Defence department in Haifa."
If you still don't understand.... then wait for a few days.... and stay clear from drinking.... and you may understand what I am talking about!
:8)
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..and now Bellingcat reveal the second 'Russian Tourist" ..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45791378 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45791378)
Skripal attack: Bellingcat names second Salisbury suspect
"The Bellingcat investigative website says the man who travelled under the alias Alexander Petrov is a military doctor working for Russian intelligence."
Why don't you read the following article before referring us to the BellingCat investigation?
https://russia-insider.com/en/british-skripal-narrative-fails-occams-razor-every-step-way/ri24896
and then read the BelingCat article and the comments too?
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/09/26/skripal-suspect-boshirov-identified-gru-colonel-anatoliy-chepiga/
tiphat
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OK, I indulged you, Wiz and I'm left with the conclusion that this song is apt for you ..
What a fool believes ..
Please enlighten us as to how even villagers from the first GRU 'Tourist' have identified him ...
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I suggest go back and read my post 415 again . . .
Since post #415 is written by Moby I have no idea what you are babbling about. Wiz though this is often the case with your posts. :laugh: Please though continue to entertain us.
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I suggest go back and read my post 415 again . . .
Since post #415 is written by Moby I have no idea what you are babbling about. Wiz though this is often the case with your posts. :laugh: Please though continue to entertain us.
You are definitely over your limits and pissed because the post No 415 it's mine and the next one is Noby's!.
That's is what happens to people like you and Noby, without the appropriate company around to entertain them..... then.......they soon go gaga.
Here is another educational video for you .......old boy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqLhPPOEJB4
Mona Lisa even smile at you ......
(https://news.developer.nvidia.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/FaceApp-Feature.png)
:ROFL:
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My bad, I suspect because Moby's posts are moderated this changes the numbering.
EDIT: #415 Now belongs to Markje, no wait it is back to Wiz. tiphat
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Being suggested one is 'gaga' by an 'ol git who cannot remember / admit who's photos / scribes are his / or that of another .... now there's a thing ...
Wiz, that you might still try to suggest the Kremlin is 'innocent' in all these away games really does tell us who's GAGA ....
I particularly get a kick out of 'journalists' who persist in the notion the the Skripals were / dead / held against their will .
Carry on in useful idiot mode - it becomes you - you might get a medal :chuckle:
....
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The Skripals Are an MI6 Hoax
Very convincing. This Israeli expert blows up the UK's narrative in a few well-chosen one-liners.
An Israeli expert on international terrorism, writer Alexander Brass, shared his view on the case of the Skripals poisoning in Salisbury. Brass draws parallels between the work of the special services of Israel and Russia – he believes that if to compare the British version with the practice of the special agents, then the absurdity becomes obvious.
(https://russia-insider.com/sites/insider/files/styles/1200xauto/public/maxresdefault-2_0.jpg?itok=_c-xD07g)
“Alexander, so what, in your opinion, happened in Salisbury?”
"If the GRU acted, both the killers and the other participants in the operation would come to the UK on the passports of other countries that have visa-free relations with it. Here, two alleged GRU officers go to the embassy, leave their fingerprints there, get a visa, stop at the hotel, pass under all the cells. This you will not find even in ladies’ detective novels."
"There was a rough provocation by the British special services. In my opinion, this is obvious"
Why do you think so?
“There’s a lot of stupidity on stupidity.” The story with Petrov and Boshirov does not hold up any professional peer review. According to the Brits, the Skripals were poisoned by GRU agents (this is what the department is called, although this is now the Main Directorate of the RF General Staff).
I want to explain how the special services work. If you need someone to eliminate, then this is a very serious operation, which is being prepared for a long time. A very significant material and human resource is allocated. We are talking about dozens of employees. On the territory of this state, an “advanced command post” is being created.
In the operation, a technical support group, a logistic group, a cover group, an external surveillance group and a group of performers are involved.
The performers themselves appear at the very last moment. They do not go anywhere, lighting up on cameras, do not use public transport, but move on rented cars, which they do not rent themselves. And the more they will not stop in hotels, but will live on safe houses provided by the logistics group.
Such groups do not come under the passport of their country, do not go to the embassy for obtaining a visa, leaving fingerprints. This is complete nonsense. Professionals do not work that way.
If the GRU acted, both the killers and the other participants in the operation would come to the UK on the passports of other countries that have visa-free relations with it. Here, two alleged GRU officers go to the embassy, leave their fingerprints there, get a visa, stop at the hotel, pass under all the cells. This you will not find even in ladies’ detective novels.
Read the original post here: https://en.news-front.info/2018/09/28/skripal-case-israeli-expert-on-the-work-of-the-special-agents/
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WIZZ, these would be the same Israeli "experts" who got BUSTED in the middle east assassinating people on Australian Passports, and had their photos taken all over cctv around their target
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any comments Andrew?
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/10/09/full-report-skripal-poisoning-suspect-dr-alexander-mishkin-hero-russia/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6262055/Did-two-Russian-spies-poisoned-Skripals-accomplice.html
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Up thread I or another poster pondered was the attempt on the Skripal's an attempt by a rogue agent(s) from Russia. Perhaps seeking retribution on behalf of a colleague, parent or partner who was betrayed by Mr. Skripal.
Certainly reading the report of Wiz this incident can be viewed in this light.
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AvHdB
So 'secretly decorated' operatives of the GRU really did decide to fly in to London - travel to Salisbury - not exactly close to big smoke and not a base to visit it - to visit closed tourist destinations :chuckle:
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WIZZ, these would be the same Israeli "experts" who got BUSTED in the middle east assassinating people on Australian Passports, and had their photos taken all over cctv around their target
Redroo
I came across the above article, I have not a clue who is Alexander Brass and if he exists, but I read very carefully his comments and in my view, most of it make sense and blows up all the narrative from the British MI6 and also the police.
Did you had time to read his comments and judge them for it's common sense?
I have also read all the articles by Belingcat (The MI6 propaganda mouth peace ........to spread propaganda.)
AvHdB
I am sure you do realise that MI5 & MI6 as also Mossad and the Russian FSB and GRU are very professional organisations and such silly mistakes as described by Alexander Brass would have been taken care off and not made by the so called assassins Of course from time to time they make mistakes too.
In my view, the whole Scripal episode, is nothing more than a smoke screen by T. May to cover up her ineptitude and abysmal record on the Government, starting with her election where she lost the majority the Cons had already and subsequent Brexit actions or inactions of her government.
Since the end of the WWII, Churchill established the hate feelings and propaganda against Stalin and the USSR. The ex large Empire always needed to have a foreign target to blame...... and the Russian Bear..... was/is an easy one.
Remember that the Anglo-Zionist "Echelon" 5 sisters control the whole world.
tiphat
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Poor Wiz,
Much as I share your 'admiration' for Mrs May, I cn EASILY burst you bubble as the other nations who agree on the culprits aren't minded to prop up Mrs May :chuckle:
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Wiz’s post makes excellent points, all of which are extremely logical. Let’s also remember it was a ‘botched job’ with exotic weapons and they were unable to eliminate their target.
It makes no sense to me, irrespective of the western governments all pointing fingers at not just Russia but Putin himself.
I’m not saying that it had nothing to do with Russia and it definitely wasn’t them, but I’m comply unconvinced by the various stories we’re being fed or the timescales of the accusations which was also bizarre. In my opinion, there’s far more to it than we’re being told.
I’m not sure why Av or Moby won’t even acknowledge this and appreciate why we think it’s not a slam dunk?
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2 decorated GRU operatives as' tourists' in Salisbury when staying in London .... I'm not surprised you can't see what bleeding obvious ... it's a botched op - they're busted ..
Suggestions that the Skripals were 'dead' or 'being held against their will' ...
The only debate is why useful idiots won't / can't see this is another example of 'away games' and unacceptable behaviour ... from attacking the support team after televised fights, state sponsored drug cheating to this debacle VVP and his cronies just keep on demonstrating how out of touch they are with what is normal behaviour
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of course there is more to this than we are being told....
but my point remains that a few different countries (Russians,Israelis, now Saudis) are screwing up covert jobs the last few years. The internet, social media and cctv have changed the world....it seems everything is discoverable now.
"The Australian" newspaper today had an article speculating that this might even be a power struggle between the GRU and FSB, with the FSB false flagging all this ineptitude as a payback.
There is no doubt the "5 eyes" are making a concerted effort to co-ordinate the release of this data to try and embarrass Putin, and set off retribution.
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of course there is more to this than we are being told....
but my point remains that a few different countries (Russians,Israelis, now Saudis) are screwing up covert jobs the last few years. The internet, social media and cctv have changed the world....it seems everything is discoverable now.
"The Australian" newspaper today had an article speculating that this might even be a power struggle between the GRU and FSB, with the FSB false flagging all this ineptitude as a payback.
There is no doubt the "5 eyes" are making a concerted effort to co-ordinate the release of this data to try and embarrass Putin, and set off retribution.
You've got a point about the GRU and FSB trying to play each other off, its a possibility. That however, doesn't give our government or media the right just to sell it as a Russian attack within minutes. There's also no suggestion from the MSM that it was an intended botched job, it's sold simply as an attack by wicked Vova Putin and folk like Moby lap it up without discussion.
The irony is, when a brown Muslim chap gets stabby or blows himself up, they're very quick to distance Islam and the terrorist. I find that very odd. :biggrin:
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I particularly get a kick out of 'journalists' who persist in the notion the the Skripals were / dead / held against their will .
Why can't they be interviewed then?
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2 decorated GRU operatives as' tourists' in Salisbury when staying in London .... I'm not surprised you can't see what bleeding obvious ... it's a botched op - they're busted ..
Suggestions that the Skripals were 'dead' or 'being held against their will' ...
The only debate is why useful idiots won't / can't see this is another example of 'away games' and unacceptable behaviour ... from attacking the support team after televised fights, state sponsored drug cheating to this debacle VVP and his cronies just keep on demonstrating how out of touch they are with what is normal behaviour
Noby
The only useful idiot, in this thread, it's you who thinks everybody else is an idiot by asking questions or dare to dispute all the propaganda emanating from your employers.
When I discovered the above article, all I did was to post it here and said that it's interesting to read. That is all .... but of course you, typical arrogant Mr Know all, you have gone gaga long time ago, as I have pointed out to you that it's time to stop using your pen in the Sahara...........dry land!
Don't you think it's a bit strange that most members over here we are open to any new info and suggestions unlike you who is stuck to one explanation....... It is Russia's/Putin's game and work! Why you don't post that photo of you and your friend Vlad in Sochi to dispel your Russophobia?
That article has gone through various avenues and never arrived to the same result as you and your friends in Bellingcat!, the MI6 Mouthpeace.
Finally answer the question posted by Manny.
Why we have not heard anything new or given an interview by the father, since the day that him and his daughter almost died?
if you do not reply straight to the above question and comeback with the same stupid narrative.... than do not be surprise that I will start calling you useful Idiot!
Any objections or bloody boring answers then..... i refer you to take a look at my avatar.
:coffeeread:
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SCOOP: UK to Demolish Skripal's Home
"I think it abundantly clear that what we have been told about what took place on 4th March in the beautiful city of Salisbury is not, in fact, true. It is clear that something else happened, and much of what we have seen since then has been theatre and an attempt to cover up what actually took place.” John Helmer (Dances with Bears) (https://russia-insider.com/en/john_helmer)
John Helmer is the longest serving foreign correspondent covering Russia. He published his fascinating memoirs in December of 2018. They are full of insights into what has really been going on in Moscow over the past 30 years.
(https://russia-insider.com/sites/insider/files/styles/1200xauto/public/main/2019-Jan-17/2185.jpg?itok=iKEZ_Wz8)
The British state broadcaster BBC and other media have disclosed that the Salisbury house (lead image) owned by Sergei Skripal is to be partially demolished and rebuilt over the next four months.
A Wiltshire Council notice to residents in the neighbourhood of the Skripal home is the source of the news reports. The January 4 notice, a media briefing by the Wiltshire Council, and a press release by a spokesman at the Ministry of Defence do not say how much of the house will be reconstructed. “We are working with the site owner, Wiltshire Council and other partners to ensure that the house will be fully repaired and returned to a fit state to live in,” the anonymous Defence Ministry official was quoted as saying by the Salisbury Journal.
The British Government, London and Wiltshire police, and media reports have claimed that a fast-acting, lethal nerve agent was administered to the handle of the front-door of the Skripal house eleven months ago, on March 4. The alleged attackers have been identified by Prime Minister Theresa May (lead image, left) as two Russians. No allegation nor evidence has been reported to date that they or their poison penetrated inside the Skripal residence.
Two senior Wiltshire Council officials, Tracy Daszkiewicz, Director of Public Health and Protection, and Alistair Cunningham, coordinator of the recovery programme, were asked to clarify how much of the Skripal house will be replaced. Replying today through spokesman David Perrett, they said “there are no plans to demolish the property at 47 Christie Miller Road. The roof and garage roof are being removed and replaced.”
Because the front-door handle was the sole identified site of the attack, and decontamination has been under way for eleven months, the two officials were asked to explain their reason for the reconstruction.
“Every decontamination site is different”, Perrett responded. “Each one has a tailored decontamination plan. As you would expect this site is more complex than others… we are taking a highly precautionary approach and that is why the clean-up work is so extensive and meticulous. It is vitally important we are thorough on all the sites so that local residents can be fully confident that each one is safe when returned to use.”
Perrett added: “In the more contaminated sites some hard surfaces might be removed.”
Angus Macpherson, the Wiltshire police commissioner, told the press on Monday that Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey, who entered the Skripal house on the evening of the poison attack and who was hospitalized later for nerve agent exposure, returned to active duty this week. Bailey has told the BBC he has “lost everything” in his house.
Commissioner Macpherson, together with Daszkiewicz and Cunningham, were asked to say if the Bailey house is also to be demolished and why. Through Perrett, they answered. “Sgt Bailey’s house has been fully cleaned. There are no plans to demolish this property.”
Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia fell ill in the centre of Salisbury town several hours after leaving their home in the afternoon of March 4. They did not return to the house before they were hospitalized. A BBC reconstruction of their departure and the alleged door-handle attack was published on November 22.
The BBC claims the door handle was sprayed with a nerve agent for “a matter of seconds”; and that minutes later Sergei Skripal touched the handle bare-handed, on his way out of the house. In the BBC reconstruction, Yulia Skripal was shown as wearing gloves and as not touching the door-handle.
(https://russia-insider.com/sites/insider/files/styles/1200xauto/public/ri_2-1-768x401.png?itok=UTKzfY0Y)
BBC photographic reconstruction of the Skripal front-door handle at the alleged instant of attack.
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/ -- min.44:54.
Both Skripals have been released from hospital. Public statements, including one filmed appearance and telephone calls, have been made by Yulia. Sergei has made no statement; no telephonic or photographic evidence of his condition has been published.
The Skripal poisoning case, and Prime Minister May’s charge that Russian government agents were to blame, have triggered international concern and sanctions against the Russian state.
According to May’s House of Commons statement on March 14, “there is no alternative conclusion other than that the Russian State was culpable for the attempted murder of Mr Skripal and his daughter – and for threatening the lives of other British citizens in Salisbury, including Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey.” No British prosecution indictment of attempted murder has been presented to a court nor have charges of a criminal conspiracy by the Russians been tested by a British judge.
In September, when decontamination works were under way at the Skripal home, the Guardian reported: “there has been speculation that the house may be knocked down but it is not believed a final decision has been made on its long-term future.” The Wiltshire Council statements this morning suggest the final decision has been made to reconstruct the Skripal house and to “clean” the Bailey house.
In November, during the BBC interview with Bailey, the police detective said that accompanied by at least one, possibly two other police officers, garbed in “full forensic suits” with gloves and face masks, he had inspected the Skripal house late in the evening of March 4. According to Bailey, “the house was in darkness. It just looked normal. There was nothing untoward”. The police trio left the house, took off their forensic gear, “bagged them up”, and returned to the police station.
(https://russia-insider.com/sites/insider/files/styles/1200xauto/public/3-1.png?itok=PkKgf62x)
Left: Wiltshire police stand guard, unprotected, in front of the poisoned door-handle;
Skripal’s study is to the right of the door.
Right: Sgt Bailey’s police car being examined by investigators.
Left: Wiltshire police stand guard, unprotected, in front of the poisoned door-handle; Skripal’s study is to the right of the door. Right: Sgt Bailey’s police car being examined by investigators.
Bailey subsequently reported to the BBC that “everything the kids owned, we lost all that, the cars, we lost everything.”
There has been no report that the Wiltshire police station where Bailey’s forensic suit, gloves and mask were returned before he went home and then developed symptoms requiring hospitalization, has been either decontaminated or demolished.
None of the locations where the Skripals spent time before their collapse, including a car park, pub, and restaurant has been demolished. Local authorities have issued bulletins confirming that following expert checks and decontamination procedures, they are safe for public use.
The London hotel, where the alleged Russian poison attackers stayed together before they travelled to Salisbury for their alleged attack, has also been reported by the police and media to have revealed nerve agent traces. “Novichok was found in bedroom”, reported the Telegraph last September.
(http://johnhelmer.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/4.png)
The newspaper also reported that no part of the hotel has been demolished.
According to Perrett of the Wiltshire Council, at the present time “there are only two remaining sites being cleaned, Mr Skripal’s house at Christie Miller Road, Salisbury, and Charlie Rowley’s residence at Muggleton Road, Amesbury.” Rowley survived later exposure, on June 30, to the poison in a bottle which he found abandoned and took home.
His partner, Dawn Sturgess, to whom Rowley presented the bottle, died following her exposure. “All other sites,” said the Wiltshire Council spokesman, “have been cleaned and handed back to their owners.”
The destruction of the main roof of the Skripal house and of the roof above Skripal’s study is the first evidence that the alleged nerve agent has been found in the interior, far beyond the range which the alleged Russian agents’ spray could have penetrated. The demolition plan also covers areas of the interior which Bailey did not reach in his March 4 inspection.
Forensic sources believe this is circumstantial evidence for two new conclusions. The first is that the poison was inside the Skripal house and inside Sergei Skripal’s study before the alleged attack on the door handle. Until and unless the British authorities explain why they are demolishing the roofs and other interior property, which only Sergei Skripal, not Sgt Bailey, could have contaminated on March 4, the sources believe no other inference is probable.
The second conclusion is that it was Skripal who exposed himself to a poison he was handling inside the house. That he did so by accident is likely; the accident theory was first reported here, on March 25, 2018.
The only independent British investigator of the affair, Rob Slane, has announced that he is retiring from the case. Here is his last word.
“Even as I was finishing this piece off, yet another round of nonsense was unleashed; this time, the news that the roof of 47 Christie Miller Road (including the roof of the study) is to be taken off and replaced.
Remember, we’re talking about a substance that can be cleansed with baby wipes. Remember, we’re talking about a substance that apparently breaks down after 80 minutes of exposure to the air.
But 11 months later, it is again so deadly, that a whole roof needs replacing! Of course the media is not bothering to ask the obvious questions about this action, such as: How exactly could the roof timbers have become contaminated? Who could have contaminated them? D.S. Bailey? But why would he have been in the attic? Why is the ceiling / roof in Zizzis [restaurant] not being replaced?
Why has the roof in The Mill [pub] not been dismantled? What was really in the attic? Obvious questions, yet none of them will be asked.
In conclusion, I think it abundantly clear that what we have been told about what took place on 4th March in the beautiful city of Salisbury is not, in fact, true. It is clear that something else happened, and much of what we have seen since then has been theatre and an attempt to cover up what actually took place.”
Source: Russian Insider - Demolition of Scripals home (https://russia-insider.com/en/scoop-uk-demolish-skripals-home-evidence-mounts-he-poisoned-himself-accident/ri25938)
I will wait to see what the useful idiot has to say for all that!
Meanwhile, here are some photos from the comments at RI.....by franz Kafka.
Huge thanks to John Helmer for nailing this.
(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1232badd7e3451239739ba5acfe28262d4917d91e7c5fa1804e084133acc49b1.jpg?w=480&h=190)
Dead, dead dead... and in heaven.
(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c99eedfb549193b8b614ac000b4ab9e73f63c192a980e58bb37935e18c59c9c2.jpg?w=480&h=263)
tiphat
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"I think it abundantly clear that what we have been told about what took place on 4th March in the beautiful city of Salisbury is not, in fact, true.
'Clear' to who ? You ?
Just to remind you.. Other than Greece - who eventually through out RU 'diplomats' for a different pretext - how many nations as ked RU diplomats to leave - because of Salisbury ?
IF those countries believed they were 'duped' - I believe we'd have heard of it ..... right ?
Wiz, your grasp on reality is not good...your 'predictions' re political outcomes in your home nation .... isn't the penny dropping ?
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I think it's abundantly clear who is the useful idiot and and dishonest person on this board and it is not me but yours truly, Mr Moby!
The words in the statement you quoted and presented in a such way to give the impression that it was my statement, are not mine but of the only independent British investigator of the affair, Rob Slane, according to the article.
My self, made no comments regarding the article. I made comments about the useful idiot title, which you did not failed to claim it!
As usual it is in your dishonest character and you cannot resit to try and play a similar stand, against me, like the one you tried on my Board and you were banned!
The current Greek Government of Tsipras it's not subservient to the British Government, like in the past century, but after 1947 follows instructions from USA administration.
(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1232badd7e3451239739ba5acfe28262d4917d91e7c5fa1804e084133acc49b1.jpg?w=480&h=190)
:censored: :evilgrin0002:
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Wiz,
You failed miserably to offer a riposte to ANY valid point - merely suggesting ''dishonesty' on my part ? ;)
'Useful idiot' is the term *I* use to describe anyone 'soft' enough to believe this wasn't the Kremlin sending a message and then 'feigning surprise / indignation... It originated in Moscow ...
I'm guessing the Goebbels 'reference' was meant to 'insult' ?
:coffeeread:
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And the Russian trolls troll away anyway...
Russian board game makes light of novichok poisoning attack in UK
"Our Guys in Salisbury," which begins Moscow and ends in Salisbury with figures in Hazmat suits.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/25/uk/our-guys-in-salisbury-game-russia-gbr-scli-intl/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/25/uk/our-guys-in-salisbury-game-russia-gbr-scli-intl/index.html)
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Many Russians do have a dark humour.
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Asked about Friday's report, a Trump administration official noted that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo had told Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in a phone call in February that the United States was determined to hold Russia accountable for the attack through sanctions.
https://news.yahoo.com/u-readying-sanctions-russia-retaliation-2018-nerve-agent-152618400.html
I guess they could also combine that with the Venezuelan missile crisis. :chuckle:
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It is clear that the Russian government already incorporates USAian stupidity in its planning and that the economic effects are already priced into both planning and markets.
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But did it incorporate it's popularity at 'home' ..
When VVP isn't popular he creates a problem to solve
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In its statement, EMC said that Khangoshvili had left Georgia and sought asylum in Germany after surviving an assassination attempt in Tbilisi in 2015.
https://news.yahoo.com/possible-political-motive-seen-berlin-154348095.html
Another targeted assassination? :-\
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In its statement, EMC said that Khangoshvili had left Georgia and sought asylum in Germany after surviving an assassination attempt in Tbilisi in 2015.
https://news.yahoo.com/possible-political-motive-seen-berlin-154348095.html
Another targeted assassination? :-\
Possibly, but much more likely to be a gang-related targeted assassination murder than political.
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Possibly, but much more likely to be a gang-related targeted assassination murder than political.
In the 'same way' my posts are regarded as 'russophobic'...one can always rely on our andrew to introduce an element of doubt...
Few 'gangs' exist in Georgia or Russia... other than those allowed to...
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Few 'gangs' exist in Georgia or Russia... other than those allowed to...
The same could be said about the UK but......oh yea. :coffeeread:
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Few 'gangs' exist in Georgia or Russia... other than those allowed to...
The same could be said about the UK but......oh yea. :coffeeread:
Ri-ight
Give us some examples ...
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Whether 'allowed' (whatever that means), makes no difference to the point I made.
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Whether 'allowed' (whatever that means), makes no difference to the point I made.
There is no need to prove you do not want to understand what happens in some nations
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Putin said that Russia had nothing to do with the murder in Germany.
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/reuters/kremlin---russian-state-had-nothing-to-do-with-chechen-s-murder-in-germany/45190434
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Putin said that Russia had nothing to do with the murder in Germany.
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/reuters/kremlin---russian-state-had-nothing-to-do-with-chechen-s-murder-in-germany/45190434
Whilst there is an element of 'they would say that wouldn't they' here, on a practical level, it seems to me that a government-ordered assassination would not be likely to be carried out by a bloke who thinks the best way to evade detection is to chuck his weapon into a nearby waterway in full sight of witnesses.
On the other hand, a bloke hired by a bloke to kill another bloke is hardly likely to be a trained assassin. Such a bloke might well think chucking his weapon in a river to avoid detection was a foolproof way to evade the police. :)
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Our 'expert' on places he's never been to strikes again ..
The FSB and GRU send messages by bumping off folk and simply deny the photos are their boys ..
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It added that his passport number was associated with an interior ministry unit that had in the past issued identity documents for agents of the GRU military intelligence service.
https://news.yahoo.com/suspect-berlin-killing-had-links-113337622.html
Maybe the murder was not random after all? :-\
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It added that his passport number was associated with an interior ministry unit that had in the past issued identity documents for agents of the GRU military intelligence service.
https://news.yahoo.com/suspect-berlin-killing-had-links-113337622.html
Maybe the murder was not random after all? :-\
Just two datapoints in there. A hotel receptionist who says she hadn't seen a man. And Bellingcat claiming that because they couldn't find a name that he doesn't exist.
Not compelling stuff. Notice also how short the piece was and yet there's two editors as well as the writer credited. That all suggests a lot of work for zero real return. A lot of man-hours went into that little piece.
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Andrewfi,
You seem to have to hots for Mr Higgins...
His findings get a lot more attention than your critiques...
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There are also parallels with the 2018 Novichok poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/03/germany-suspects-killing-vladimir-putin-opponent-berlin-skripal/
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Is it Coincidence that the North stream No2 it is near to completion and very soon will start operating providing Germany with the necessary cheap Gas for it's industry?
Is it coincidence that the "Telegraph" is a right wing paper always supporting the Conservative Government and party and where Boris Jonson has been posting his articles and views for many years.?
Is it coincidence that "Bellingcat", the unofficial investigative arm of MI6, who is using the internet to investigate and discover personal information and verification about FSB or GRU Russian operatives to verify and prove that Putin is the one who give the orders to assassinate person who he doesn't like ?
Finnaly, is it coincidence that our friend Moby is always around, disputing, everything that Andrewfi and anybody else for that matter, posts and he seems to know more about such things?
Andrewfi,
You seem to have to hots for Mr Higgins...
His findings get a lot more attention than your critiques...
Obviously he knows from the inside ...... details about Mr Higgins!
tiphat
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Wiz,
I'm in the Republic of Georgia, so if anything happens here - you'll know it was 'me' ...
YAWN ..
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His throat had been slit.
Here we go again.... (:)
https://www.businessinsider.com/anti-putin-blogger-imran-aliev-murdered-in-france-2020-2
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His throat had been slit.
Here we go again.... (:)
https://www.businessinsider.com/anti-putin-blogger-imran-aliev-murdered-in-france-2020-2
I find it interesting to note, that he was equally opposed to Kadyrov, the chechen leadership. He was a chechen national, he travelled with another chechen thats supposedly the killer, yet putin gets blamed :D of course it couldn't have been kadyrov.
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Markje
You DO realise that Mr K rules Chechn'ya because VVP made it so ?
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"We assume that Alexei was poisoned with something mixed into his tea. It was the only thing that he drank in the morning. Doctors say the toxin was absorbed faster through the hot liquid. Alexei is now unconscious,"
https://news.yahoo.com/russian-opposition-leader-navalny-hospital-050040276.html
Another poisoning incident again?? ??? :duh: :evilgrin0002: :sick0012: :whist11:
He endured chemical burns to his eye in 2017 when attackers threw green dye used as a disinfectant at his face outside his office.
In August last year Navalny suffered rashes and his face became swollen while he was in a police detention centre serving a short term for calling for illegal protests.
https://news.yahoo.com/kremlin-critic-navalny-hospitalised-poisoning-060925178.html
Poisoning has long been a technique favored by Putin. In 2008, Russian dissident Alexander Litvinenko was murdered in London by agents who laced his tea with the radioactive isotope polonium-210. Opposition campaigner Vladimir Kara-Murza survived two poisonings, and former Ukraine president Viktor Yushchenko suffered permanent facial scarring after exposure to a contaminant found in Agent Orange.
https://news.yahoo.com/putin-opponent-alexei-navalny-reportedly-041422615.html
If at first you do not succeed, try, try again. (:)
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Another poisoning incident again?? ??? :duh: :evilgrin0002: :sick0012: :whist11:
It's either that or falling out of a 6 story window.