Buicks, Chevys, Caddys in World Markets

[Manny]

Buick (coveted in China),

I never saw a Buick in China.

Chevrolet (sold in Russia),

Chevy is badge engineering in Europe. The ones sold in Europe are mostly re-badged Daewoos. They are nothing to be proud of, I wouldn't keep chickens in one. I assume US market Chevys are different models on the whole.

many Japanese cars such as Honda and Toyota are made in the USA so certainly no need to import them.

Assembled in is not the same as made in. Same as here, it merely avoids import duty on finished products. Why MB assembled some cars in Alabama, it was because they knew the US market would accept a build quality less than German and save tax. US assembled Mercs that were shipped to Europe once upon a time damaged the brand the build quality was so bad. They stopped doing it for that reason.

If US cars are as good as you think, you lot would buy them over Japanese. And you don't if my recollection of the stats are correct.

[Ste]

Buick (coveted in China),

I never saw a Buick in China.

Chevrolet (sold in Russia),

Chevy is badge engineering in Europe. The ones sold in Europe are mostly re-badged Daewoos. They are nothing to be proud of, I wouldn't keep chickens in one. I assume US market Chevys are different models on the whole.

many Japanese cars such as Honda and Toyota are made in the USA so certainly no need to import them.

Assembled in is not the same as made in. Same as here, it merely avoids import duty on finished products. Why MB assembled some cars in Alabama, it was because they knew the US market would accept a build quality less than German and save tax. US assembled Mercs that were shipped to Europe once upon a time damaged the brand the build quality was so bad. They stopped doing it for that reason.

If US cars are as good as you think, you lot would buy them over Japanese. And you don't if my recollection of the stats are correct.

My 2006 UK-spec Cadillac CTS was 'assembled' in Kaliningrad, RU WTF does that mean?

[Manny]

My 2006 UK-spec Cadillac CTS was 'assembled' in Kaliningrad, RU WTF does that mean?

It means assembled badly by someone who is drunk if Clarkson is to be believed. 

[andrewfi]

My 2006 UK-spec Cadillac CTS was 'assembled' in Kaliningrad, RU WTF does that mean?

It means assembled badly by someone who is drunk if Clarkson is to be believed. 

I did not realise they were building them there.
Manny, you may have more recent experience than I do but my experience of US made cars was that the build quality was nothing to shout about. Your car is a European build of a US model IIRC, is the quality of the plastics and fit the same as the US models or do we get an even worse version?

There's a bloke has a Cadillac CTS estate parked next to mine. It can't be very old but it sure as hell looks tatty compared to the rest of the car park.

[Manny]

Manny, you may have more recent experience than I do but my experience of US made cars was that the build quality was nothing to shout about. Your car is a European build of a US model IIRC, is the quality of the plastics and fit the same as the US models or do we get an even worse version?

You mean wifey's car. Although American, they were built on the MB line in Germany and are mechanically a 300D 210 series Merc. Interior spec/plastics are totally different to US spec ones. Still no Merc, but not bad for the money that they were. Not sure if mechanicals/switchgear on US models were the same. I recall seeing a US one and it was acres of grey plastic and pleblon inside. 

[Anteros]

Buick (coveted in China),

I never saw a Buick in China.

It might be that you did not realize it was a Buick you were looking at as their style has improved, or it may be that you simply were not paying attention. 

Your claim that Japanese cars are better quality in the USA is not true.  For several years Buick for example has rated higher than Lexus in initial quality according to JD Powers.  Many other American cars rate very high as well.

Americans still buy more American cars than Japanese as well, so not sure where you come up with your claims except for your usual anti-American bias.

article

"For the second time in its 110-year history, Buick has topped one million sales in a year--and set a new overall record in the process. Last year saw the marque shift 1,032,056 vehicles, beating the company's last million-sale year in 1984, when it sold 1,003,345 cars. Whereas that 1984 volume was largely down to North America, Buick's current prosperity is largely influenced by a different country: China. Of those million-plus sales, a full 809,918 cars were sold in the Chinese market, nearly four times as many cars as the 205,509 units sold in the U.S. market".


http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1089550_buick-sells-four-times-as-many-cars-in-china-as-in-u-s

[Manny]

Americans still buy more American cars than Japanese as well, so not sure where you come up with your claims except for your usual anti-American bias.

http://dailykanban.com/2015/02/americas-best-selling-car-brand-not-american/

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2015/03/usa-20-best-selling-cars-february-2015-sales-figures.html

I never saw a Buick in China.

It might be that you did not realize it was a Buick you were looking at as their style has improved, or it may be that you simply were not paying attention. 

That may be true. I just looked up which Buick the Chinese buy and it is the GL8, which looks more Japanese than American. So I probably didn't notice them. Its not a model I am familiar with.

[Ste]

Have to say my CTS is quality build wise, top notch wherever it was made.


.

[Manny]

Have to say my CTS is quality build wise, top notch wherever it was made.

They were quite well regarded generally I think, although the styling didn't really take off here. They are a bit Marmite aren't they? I recall Chris had one for a while too.

[Anteros]

Americans still buy more American cars than Japanese as well, so not sure where you come up with your claims except for your usual anti-American bias.

http://dailykanban.com/2015/02/americas-best-selling-car-brand-not-american/

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2015/03/usa-20-best-selling-cars-february-2015-sales-figures.html

When I say Americans still buy more American cars than Japanese cars, I am lumping trucks in with those overall figures.  Many Americans consider a truck to be far more important than a car, so I think that it is a valid way to make the comparison.

Also both Honda Accord and Toyota Camry have 80% or more domestic content, so they are not just "assembled" in the USA, they truly are "made" in the USA.

Buick actually has an advertising campaign right now on TV where the valet cannot find the Buick, even though he is standing right next to it, because their styling has been greatly improved.

[Anteros]

This is the highest rated SUV for it's size in Initial Quality for the year 2014, according to JD Powers.

http://autos.jdpower.com/research/GMC/Terrain/2014/SUV/index.htm


This 2012 Buick Lacrosse a large sedan, was highest rated for reliability by JD Powers.

http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Buick/LaCrosse/2012/Sedan/index.htm


According to this source, the number one selling passenger car in China, is actually the Buick Excelle.

article
"It's unfathomable for most American consumers that a Buick can be the #1 selling passenger car in the world's largest car market... but it is. The honor of the top selling passenger car goes to a vehicle called the Buick Excelle and I can vouch that you see plenty of them on the streets of Beijing. It's in the compact car segment, which has grown tremendously in China and has made up nearly half of car sales last year."

http://www.edmunds.com/industry-center/analysis/drive-by-numbers-buick-excelling-in-china.html

A great photo of the Buick Excelle:

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/30/new-buick-excelle-debuts-in-china-sedan-coming-to-america-soon/

[Manny]

When I say Americans still buy more American cars than Japanese cars, I am lumping trucks in with those overall figures.  Many Americans consider a truck to be far more important than a car, so I think that it is a valid way to make the comparison.

If you include trucks (and I see why you would in the US) then I can take that on board. I recall reading that someone buys a Ford F Series there every few seconds.

My so called 'anti-American bias' doesn't extend to vehicles you may recall. 

Last time I was in the US I rented a gargantuan Chevy Suburban. It was so big that it made my Range Rover seem like a Mini. Great fun on big US roads though. The plastics were a bit naff, but I put that down to it being a rental spec. That is another car you seldom see outside of the US.

[Anteros]

When I say Americans still buy more American cars than Japanese cars, I am lumping trucks in with those overall figures.  Many Americans consider a truck to be far more important than a car, so I think that it is a valid way to make the comparison.

If you include trucks (and I see why you would in the US) then I can take that on board. I recall reading that someone buys a Ford F Series there every few seconds.

My so called 'anti-American bias' doesn't extend to vehicles you may recall. 

Last time I was in the US I rented a gargantuan Chevy Suburban. It was so big that it made my Range Rover seem like a Mini. Great fun on big US roads though. The plastics were a bit naff, but I put that down to it being a rental spec. That is another car you seldom see outside of the US.

YES!!  Isn't it fun to occasionally look for the good in the USA?   

Here is my lottery fantasy truck and RV combo, a 2015 GMC Yukon Denali with an Airstream trailer.

[AvHdB]

The Ford lineup is quite impressive at present. And unlike GM Ford did not rip off the US taxpayer or destroy Saab.

Having said this the Corvette is ass kicking impressive.

Than again there was that marquee vehicle of the UK with a Norse Longboat on the hood. When it was sold off it first went to the Japanese with I think help from Germany, who only lost money, than the Germans alone tried to revive it, bankrupt it is now owned by an Indian firm. 

[cufflinks]

When it comes to the USA the small gas frugal vehicles can't really compete with countries paying $8USD per gallon and have to focus their engineering resources on frugal vehicles - toyota and lexus have one of the largest hybrid fleets going along with Honda - Ford Hybrid now popular UBER black sedans as they run electric in most City traffic.

Analysts reports suggest a USA national fleet of Plugin Hybrids over the next 20 years. would bankrupt OPEC.  Many UBER drivers driving PRIUS cars by Toyota and though smaller they have plenty of Head Room due to a lack of front to rear Drive Train the floors are basically flat.

[Anteros]

The Ford lineup is quite impressive at present. And unlike GM Ford did not rip off the US taxpayer or destroy Saab.

Having said this the Corvette is ass kicking impressive.

Than again there was that marquee vehicle of the UK with a Norse Longboat on the hood. When it was sold off it first went to the Japanese with I think help from Germany, who only lost money, than the Germans alone tried to revive it, bankrupt it is now owned by an Indian firm. 

I am one of the only persons I ever knew who loved Saabs and owned one (the maintenance bill was a real sob story though  .  I actually tried to sell them after High School and sold one to Charlie Sheen back in the day (he had bleached blonde hair and I'm pretty sure he was stoned even back in '82).  Shortly after that I got fired for not selling enough of the damn cars, went in the military, was stationed in Germany and bought a Saab and drove it all over Europe.   

[Chris]

Have to say my CTS is quality build wise, top notch wherever it was made.

They were quite well regarded generally I think, although the styling didn't really take off here. They are a bit Marmite aren't they? I recall Chris had one for a while too.

I've had two Caddy's the first back in 1999 when they were first sold in the UK was a Cadillac Seville STS, I bought it brand new from a dealer in Newcastle, very few dealers were selling them at the time,  it was a great car, I loved it, it was very heavy on juice though, and lost half its value in just over a year    and the second was one you rode in Manny back in 2008 was a CTS, bought nearly new.

Yes very much like marmite 

[AvHdB]

The Ford lineup is quite impressive at present. And unlike GM Ford did not rip off the US taxpayer or destroy Saab.

Having said this the Corvette is ass kicking impressive.

Than again there was that marquee vehicle of the UK with a Norse Longboat on the hood. When it was sold off it first went to the Japanese with I think help from Germany, who only lost money, than the Germans alone tried to revive it, bankrupt it is now owned by an Indian firm. 

I am one of the only persons I ever knew who loved Saabs and owned one (the maintenance bill was a real sob story though  .  I actually tried to sell them after High School and sold one to Charlie Sheen back in the day (he had bleached blonde hair and I'm pretty sure he was stoned even back in '82).  Shortly after that I got fired for not selling enough of the damn cars, went in the military, was stationed in Germany and bought a Saab and drove it all over Europe.   

With the exception of two nightmare stories with Japanese cars in the States I have always owned Saab's. Presently I have a 1999 93 5 "door", stick. This is the last year that Saab actually did the enginering, the 2000 year model more or less a full GM vehicle is sluggish. I bought my present vehicle a couple years ago with 75,000 miles it is now at 135,000. A great car to drive, economical on the road and pricey in the garage.

I have always owned Rover's in Europe, I realize there is a moral to this story. I should not own a car as the firm goes bankrupt.

[Chris]

The Ford lineup is quite impressive at present. And unlike GM Ford did not rip off the US taxpayer or destroy Saab.

Whatever happened to SAAB, I have owned two of them, great cars, very reliable, but you never hear of them now over here following the restructuring and so on that went on.

[AvHdB]

The Ford lineup is quite impressive at present. And unlike GM Ford did not rip off the US taxpayer or destroy Saab.

Whatever happened to SAAB, I have owned two of them, great cars, very reliable, but you never hear of them now over here following the restructuring and so on that went on.

In the North East of America they had a loyal following for a variety of reasons. GM acquired them and decided that with Saab they could slay BMW. Guess what BMW is a profitable firm and GM except for a MASSIVE cash injection from America, Inc. would be bankrupt.

Saab was shuttered after a Dutch group tried to take it over from GM and failed. It is a pity, but in reality there is overcapacity of car manufacturing producers.

[Anteros]

The Ford lineup is quite impressive at present. And unlike GM Ford did not rip off the US taxpayer or destroy Saab.

Having said this the Corvette is ass kicking impressive.

Than again there was that marquee vehicle of the UK with a Norse Longboat on the hood. When it was sold off it first went to the Japanese with I think help from Germany, who only lost money, than the Germans alone tried to revive it, bankrupt it is now owned by an Indian firm. 

I am one of the only persons I ever knew who loved Saabs and owned one (the maintenance bill was a real sob story though  .  I actually tried to sell them after High School and sold one to Charlie Sheen back in the day (he had bleached blonde hair and I'm pretty sure he was stoned even back in '82).  Shortly after that I got fired for not selling enough of the damn cars, went in the military, was stationed in Germany and bought a Saab and drove it all over Europe.   

With the exception of two nightmare stories with Japanese cars in the States I have always owned Saab's. Presently I have a 1999 93 5 "door", stick. This is the last year that Saab actually did the enginering, the 2000 year model more or less a full GM vehicle is sluggish. I bought my present vehicle a couple years ago with 75,000 miles it is now at 135,000. A great car to drive, economical on the road and pricey in the garage.

I have always owned Rover's in Europe, I realize there is a moral to this story. I should not own a car as the firm goes bankrupt.

I would love to have an older Saab 900 Turbo 3 door (2 door with the hatchback) 5 speed stick-shift and restore it and stiffen the suspension up a bit.  Lots of fun to drive a Saab Turbo, I always liked the sounds they make and the rush in acceleration as the turbo kicked in.  I think the only other car I enjoyed driving as much was a Porsche 911, which I only had the chance to drive once.

Too bad that they were purchased by such a large corporation as GM.  If they had been purchased by Ford or Chrysler I suspect they would still be around.

[Manny]

I would love to have an older Saab 900 Turbo 3 door (2 door with the hatchback) 5 speed stick-shift

Complete with three spoke alloys aka Paradise Club.

[Ste]

My CTS has LPG - 42p a litre in Brum a while back, not to be sniffed at. 54p at Morrison's in Kirkstall now, still not bad...

Fitted from new, proper job, not some dodgy hack, lose some boot space but no biggie - 99% of the time it;s just me in the car, if I need space - there's three spare seats.

Performance, can't honestly tell the difference but my boy racer days are well and truly over.

Outlets, have to plan ahead to refill but so long as you have petrol in the other tanks, no biggie.

Engine, like new, 100k on it now and it's silent apart from LPG injector clicking - u can hear that with bonnet up.

[AvHdB]

I would love to have an older Saab 900 Turbo 3 door (2 door with the hatchback) 5 speed stick-shift

Complete with three spoke alloys aka Paradise Club.

I had one of those (of course the steering was on the correct side) - One night on Route 17 going through the Catskills I blew by a parked State Trooper at the side. I stopped at a safe spot and waited for him to catch up. He was amused, especially when I realized he was as black as the night and as tall as Paul Bunyan. We exchanged "documents" through the sunroof. He cut the ticket to a far lower amount and than wanted to know if I thought he would fit in the car.

I told him there was only one way to find out. I exited the car and as he adjusted the seat he told me "a fine car, I want one, just not in white"

[Anteros]

I looked at the JD Power survey of reliability based on 3 years and Lexus was actually number 1, whereas Buick had climbed to number 2.  Cadillac was rated number 4.

These cars were top rated for "initial quality" which is a different survey.

http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Lincoln/MKX/2014/SUV/index.htm

The Lincoln MKZ is one of my favorite mid sized SUV's.  Not too many Europeans know about this vehicle, IIRC.

http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Buick/Encore/2014/SUV/index.htm

The Buick small SUV is a newer vehicle which I've never seen before.

http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Ford/F-150/2014/Truck/index.htm

Not surprisingly the Ford F150 Truck is top rated.