Dear Moby
You obviously think that you are the only knowledgeable person on the world who knows everything and can express an opinion about everything! :rolleye0009:
All other people here we are idiots and you are the only clever person on the world.
I have visited both parts of Cyprus twice in the past and I do have many relatives as also Turkish Cypriot friends who inform me accordingly. I am also old enough to remember what took place while Cyprus was under the British and what happened later during the invasion.
Now I am not going to give you a history lesson but simply may I remind you what the Brits did under Governor Harding and ask you if you remember how many Greek fighters he hanged for fighting with EOKA for the liberation of the island.
During that period there were no problems between the Greeks and Turkish Cypriots in the north until the British following their usual practice “Divide and Rule” to make sure, what ever was the result of the EOKA gorilla war, the British could keep the 2 bases in Cyprus as British Sovereign land.
At the time of the Independent agreement is Zurich the population was 18% TC and 82% GC and the TC had no problems with the majority of the Greek Cypriots but the next 3 years all problems started with the instigation of the British.
After the invasion by Turkey with British and American help, don’t forget the Radar on Troodos Mountain, blocking the Greek army ships, with your navy to reach Cyprus…. and the “Turkification” of the North, the British and the Americans, via the UN tried to impose the Anan Plan in 2004, which I read and it’s unworkable because it states the minority has the same rights with the majority, rotate the presidency role equally and on top, as a guarantor, a foreign person to make decisions, if they disagree.
Typical British colonial rule, supported by the Americans too and Israel, (involved in the Explorations of Gas and oil.)
For the past 2-3 years tried again to impose this plan ….. but no success,
Russia does not get involved because they know MI6 has created the AKEL, largest party in the south (Communistic party) and before any of its leaders visit Moscow always go there via London!
Now if you think you know better the situation than my relatives and friends from the North, than you must be working for MI6, but I think they don’t employ characters like you ….. maybe/possibly in small errands messenger jobs. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
The fact is simple. Ertogan one’s he becomes a Sultan (Muslim Dictator) for ever, next month, then he will try to incorporate the TRC to Turkey, because nobody recognise it, so he can have rights to the Gas and Oil fields.
Remember that the Greek side in the south, despite all these problems from the double face British and Americans………has developed very well and there is no comparison between the two parts.
Just for your information my TC friends told me that they have no problems acquiring passports and other benefits health education etc from the CR as they are treated the same like the Greeks.
You of course took advantage of CR being a member of the EU and you know it well. :P
It’s good idea we never forget history and the duplicitous behaviour of the British and the USA. That is nothing new in my opinion.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YlxfayMoREU/Ue0SE1nsNeI/AAAAAAAAFR4/KQxzwvXV8do/s1600/Cyprus-etnicity+MAP+1960+vs+today+STOLEN.jpg)
tiphat
The Fallacies of the Cyprus “Problem” -
INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
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ILIAS KOUSKOUVELIS, AUG 12 2017
In the early morning of July 7, 2017, another round of negotiations under the auspices of the United Nations on the so called Cyprus “problem” has ended in Switzerland. Some are trying to understand why. Others, however, have ostensibly entered the “blame game” and/or misinformation, unjustly pointing the finger to the government of the Republic of Cyprus, because, allegedly, it did not make the necessary concessions, so as to satisfy Turkish demands. For those who are trying to understand why, I am arguing, hereinafter, that none should have expected these negotiations (or any previous) to succeed. They were doomed to fail for three reasons, which constitute the fallacies of the so-called Cyprus “problem”.
Fallacy One
The first fallacy is that international actors, international organizations, diplomats, and analysts are trying to understand first and deal then with a “problem”, and not with a case of pure and brutal military invasion perpetrated by Turkey in 1974 and still preserved illegally until today.[1] This is where all starts and all ends: in the thought dominating (our) minds that we are to deal with a “problem” and not with a flagrant violation of almost all fundamental principals of the United Nations Charter and a series of non implemented compulsory decisions of the Security Council.
In fact, Turkey still maintains some 40.000 heavily armed troops on the island, presenting since 1974 an every day threat for the very existence of what is left territorially of the Republic of Cyprus, making us wonder how the Republic of Cyprus’ citizens – EU citizens since 2004 – and its economy may endure such a situation. Turkey, as demonstrated in the negotiations, has not the intention to withdraw its occupation forces from the island (BBC 2017). Most important, even if those troops were to be reduced, Turkey was adamantly against abandoning the status of the guarantor power, contrary to the intention of the other two guarantors (the U.K. and Greece).
Why? The official narrative says in order to guarantee the rights and the security of the Turkish Cypriots (TRTWORLD 2017). Obviously, this is neither the real nor a convincing reason, as Turkey, given its record of human rights, cannot guarantee the rule of law, especially in an EU country. The real motive is the expansionist policy of Turkey, and its tactic to exercise through Cyprus pressure on the Republic, on Greece, on the EU, and more broadly, on the West.
It is clear that Turkey does not want to contribute to “solving” the problem. And this is the second fallacy committed by those who consider Turkey well-intentioned to solve the Cyprus “problem” under the rule of the AKP Party and of Erdogan, and given Turkey’s current and favorable general and regional distribution of power. In fact, Turkey’s position on Cyprus was clearly stated many years ago by Ahmet Davutoglu.[2] The following excerpts from his book are more than explicit:
“It is not possible for a country that neglects Cyprus to have a decisive saying in the global and regional politics. It cannot be active in world politics, because this small island occupies a position which can directly affect the strategic links between Asia and Africa, Europe and Africa, and Europe and Asia. And it cannot be active in regional politics, because Cyprus has its eastern edge resembling an arrow that points to the Middle East, and its western edge establishing the cornerstone of the strategic balance among the eastern Mediterranean, the Balkans and North Africa”. (Davutoğlu 2008, 176)
“(…) Even if there was not one Muslim Turk there, Turkey had to maintain a Cyprus problem. No country can stay indifferent towards such an island, located in the heart of its very own vital space.” (Davutoğlu 2008, 179)
“Turkey needs to see the strategic advantage which it obtained… in the 1970s, not as the component of a Cyprus defence policy, directed towards maintaining the status quo, but as one of the diplomatic main supports of an aggressive maritime strategy”. (Davutoğlu 2008, 180)
Consequent to these views, Turkey not only continues the illegal occupation, but it also increases problems for Cyprus. Most characteristic is the aggressive stance over the issue of energy resources discovered in the Cypriot Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and the prospect of their exploitation.
Since 2010, in the very beginning, Turkey stated that it has rights to the resources, warned the countries of the region that supporting the moves of the Republic of Cyprus will have consequences in the Cyprus negotiations (Hurriyet Daily News, Jan. 5, 2011), and attempted to stop Cyprus and the various international companies to proceed with exploration (Hurriyet Daily News, Aug. 5, 2011). Then it moved on to an illegal agreement of delimiting the continental shelf with the self-proclaimed “Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus”, so as to carry out research into the area between itself and the northern cost of Cyprus (Hurriyet Daily News, Sept. 21, 2011). It has repeatedly sent research and military vessels in the Cypriot EEZ, whenever and wherever surveys were being held out, in order to, according to Erdoğan’s statement, protect the Turkish interests, thus causing tension in the region and reaction on the part of Israel, the U.S.A., and the EU.
Fallacy Three
From time to time Turkey remembers the Turkish Cypriots and declares that it maintains troops on the island and remains a guarantor, in order to protect their rights on the Mediterranean energy resources. Despite the inconsistency of whose rights Turkey is protecting, Turkish or Turkish Cypriot, this raises a question relative to the political importance of the Turkish Cypriots and their ability to negotiate independently from Turkey the solution of the “problem”. It is the answer to this question that constitutes the third reason explaining the failure of negotiations and, at the same time, reveals the third fallacy.
A big part of the negotiations was conducted between the leaders of the two communities, despite the fact that the one is the President of an internationally recognised state and the other the leader of a Community. But protocol, which no doubt matters in international relations, is not the obstacle here. The obstacle is that the Turkish Cypriots are so dependent on and from Turkey that they really do not have the ability to strike any deal if Turkey disagrees. It is therefore a fallacy to think that because the two communities on the island (perhaps genuinely) want to end the division, this is going to happen. And it is lost energy, human resources, political capital, time, money and unfulfilled hopes to have the impotent Turkish Cypriot leader discussing with a democratically elected, internationally recognised and with full power to strike a deal President of the Republic of Cyprus.
It is very nice having the two leaders meeting, taking the customary picture, and trying to solve the details of how a re-unified island and its government may work. But, it is also fallacious! Because, the solution of the Cyprus “problem” is totally dependent on the end of the occupation, which does not depend on the Turkish Cypriots! It depends on the Turkish government and particularly, at this moment, Erdogan.
Conclusion
Thus, if anyone in the future wants genuinely to deal with the “problem”, they should start where all negotiations should have had started since 1974. The place is called Ankara, the country is Turkey, the leader now is Erdogan, and what needs to be done is to end, first, the occupation and, second, the anachronism or the absurdity of a non EU country guaranteeing the rule of law and the security of an EU member state.
Otherwise, we will continue living in our minds with the fallacies of what has been named a “problem”, masking the crucial fact that Turkey is the invader and small Cyprus the victim.
Notes
[1] On the invasion and its consequences see the Historical Review of The Cyprus Question of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Cyprus available at: http://www.mfa.gov.cy/mfa/mfa2016.nsf/mfa08_en/mfa08_en - OpenDocument
[2] He served successively as adviser to Erdogan on foreign affairs, Minister of Foreign Affairs, and Prime Minister.
Source:
http://antifon.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/the-fallacies-of-cyprus-problem-e.html#more
Moby
Your video links.... do not work .... only a toples lady photo appear....... ;D
I am not trying to divert, as you say the subject……neither will ever visit a terrorist nation who is killing people with impunity and does not respect International laws and conventions. You may accept such assignments but not me. At my age, I don’t want to become a hero… You may do!
Before I buy any book, I read the various reviews and then I make up my mind….. if it’s worth paying the price and in this case I am not prepared to pay $40 Dollars for a book with so many different opinions.
Here I copy 2 reviews so different for C. Hitchens book: Hostage to History
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https://www.amazon.com/Hostage-History-Cyprus-Ottomans-Kissinger/dp/1859841899
5 of 5 stars - The turks waded ashore and Christians were massacred
BySeth J. Frantzman HALL OF FAME on September 14, 2003
We all know the story of Cyprus, well actually none of us do. None of us remmmeber what happaned at Famagusta. The Muslims were sieging the city and the indegenous CHristians were praying to god to help them. Then the Muslims lured the christian leader out under flag of truce. In front of the city the muslims cut his skin off him and stuffed it with hay, he was still alive to see his skin hanging on a dummy body. THis is typical 'peaceful' muslim behavior of course but what one forgets is that even with the ottoman victory the christians lived on, and currently occupy half of Cyrpus. THis would not have been the case had Kissinger and the Viscious intolerant anti-minority Tirks had their way(remmember what the turks and other 'peaceful' muslims did to the armenians?). Hitchens tells the story of Cyrpus as it happaned. How the Greek Cypriots were betrayed and how the machinations of foriegn powers brought the island to civil strife and finally turkish invasion. WIth the Turkish invasion the christians were forced to flee or be massacred, but of course like most population exchanges the only people that had to leave were the non muslims, the muslims in christian cyprus stayed put because western powers are always more benevolent(remmember what happened with India/Pakistan in 1948 how all the hindu/sihks were massacred in Pakistan but westerners get mad when one muslim dies in India). Hitchens book is an important work and not biased, it does focus to much on foriengers and does not talk about the day to day violence that overtook Cyprus prior to the invasion.
0 out of 5 stars - Hackneyed History
ByR. Danielson October 20, 2008
As much as I admire Christopher Hitchens, when it comes to Cyprus, he completely loses his mind. With this book, Hitchens falls into the intellectually lazy trap of forming his conclusions before seeking out material to support them. Essentially, he makes an argument, and then asks the reader to take his word for it. Although replete with quotes, the book contains almost no citations that the reader can trace to a source.
Hitchens makes it all seem so simple: the Cypriots and Greece are the virtuous ones, while the Turks, Britain, and the US are the villains. But anyone who has spent any time at all seriously researching this subject knows this just isn't so.
The book also contains so many historical howlers that anyone quoting it does so at his own peril. Because of its formulaic structure it might appeal to a popular audience, but has virtually no scholarly value. I, for one, am waiting for Mr. Hitchens to re-visit this subject, do the actual research, and come back with a book worthy of him.
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyprus-Conspiracy-America-Espionage-Invasion/dp/1860647375
The Cyprus Conspiracy: America, Espionage and the Turkish Invasion
Paperback – 25 Jun 2001
by Brendan O'Malley (Author), Ian Craig (Author) Price £12.99
Top customer reviews
Neon
5.0 out of 5 stars - Exceptionally interesting and impartial - 21 May 2016
Format: Paperback Verified Purchase
One of the fairest and impartial overviews I have read. Of course there are some parts which are omitted, but overall I would definitely recommend this book over nearly all other publications on the matter. The book slightly understates the negative British influence on the events which transpired (and this is coming from a Brit), but it accurately represents the deep conspiracy and the devastating effects of American interference, and its long lasting effects that remain to this day.
A. A. C. Condie
5.0 out of 5 stars - Disturbing reading - 29 May 2012
Format: Paperback Verified Purchase
Having visited Cyprus and with relatives living there, I have always been interested in the politics of the country. I knew about the British colonial rule, EOKA insurgency, and the Turkish invasion in 1974. I thought I knew what it was all about but this book educated me into how murky and complicated the issues are with Cyprus. No one comes out of this well - the British, Greeks, Turkish, Americans, and the Cypriots (Greek and Turkish).
I would not post any more positive reviews but if you want to have a look and check it,
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyprus-Conspiracy-America-Espionage-Invasion/dp/1860647375
you will find 45 positive reviews and only 2 negative.
I bought it, read it and I think it’s an excellent book and more accurate than others I have read. The Authors BTW are not Greeks or Turkish …. Where Christopher Hitchens is British. Give me good reason why I should trust his narrative and not the second one?
BTW I guess you are not in Cyprus anymore….. and you are writing again porkies.
Obviously you enjoy using your fantasy to write lies about Greeks killing Turks and not a word about the British atrocities and responsibility!
It is all “The Greek’s Fault”.. and today around 40 bases/Stations on the island are all Greek and not American and GCHQ!
I asked you to write an honest travel report and you wrote ... Fcuk all!
Well done old chum!
:coffeeread:
The Unsinkable Aircraft Carrier
Cyprus Dispute ExplainedMoby I came across this video and I hope you will watch it
with open mind and tell us your opinion.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHlHnCwFp5cMessage from the producer of the video,
WonderWhy
In this video I look at the controversial topic of the Cyprus dispute, an island split between the Republic of Cyprus and the unrecognised Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, physically separated by a United Nations peacekeeping force, that has been operating for more than half a century.
The island was temporarily divided between the Greek and Turkish communities in 1964 due to inter-ethnic violence, and the divide became more permanent in 1974 when Turkey invaded Cyprus, responding to a coup by the Cyprus National Guard (organised by the Greek military junta in Athens)
I also look at how Cyprus' strategic position in the world of geopolitics often exacerbated the already existing tension on the island, as NATO used Cyprus as a military base to keep Soviet influence at bay.
I tried to be as impartial as possible, let's try to keep the comment section civil!
tiphat
Wiz
just to avoid you wasting your time.
I don't watch the videos you post
As you haven't been to Cyprus in a decade or more - like Russia / Ukraine - nothing you post makes sense.
YOU MAY LIKE THIS VIDEO
About Houses In Limassol Areahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaHBSE-Mt7MNow we have to wait for Stewart to return from Madeira
and approve yours posts!
:P :P :P