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General Discussion => General Chat => Topic started by: Steveboy on May 14, 2017, 02:22:52 AM

Title: Eurovision..
Post by: Steveboy on May 14, 2017, 02:22:52 AM
Thats the last time I watch that stupid show..

last year Ukraine got the sympathy vote because they were invaded ... :chuckle:

This year is a guy waiting for a heart operation...

Next year? Some guy who lost both legs ?

I was trying to work out why all the presenters have those stupid hair styles  :laugh:
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Jerash on May 14, 2017, 02:53:14 AM
Thats the last time I watch that stupid show..

last year Ukraine got the sympathy vote because they were invaded ... :chuckle:

This year is a guy waiting for a heart operation...

Next year? Some guy who lost both legs ?

I was trying to work out why all the presenters have those stupid hair styles  :laugh:

You were supposed to be boycotting it!))))


.
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Steveboy on May 14, 2017, 02:55:49 AM
Thats the last time I watch that stupid show..

last year Ukraine got the sympathy vote because they were invaded ... :chuckle:

This year is a guy waiting for a heart operation...

Next year? Some guy who lost both legs ?

I was trying to work out why all the presenters have those stupid hair styles  :laugh:

You were supposed to be boycotting it!))))


.

No we cheered Moldova on  :party0011:

Moldova is the closest thing to Russia now anyway :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Jerash on May 14, 2017, 02:58:50 AM
Thats the last time I watch that stupid show..

last year Ukraine got the sympathy vote because they were invaded ... :chuckle:

This year is a guy waiting for a heart operation...

Next year? Some guy who lost both legs ?

I was trying to work out why all the presenters have those stupid hair styles  :laugh:

You were supposed to be boycotting it!))))


.

No we cheered Moldova on  :party0011:

Moldova is the closest thing to Russia now anyway :thumbsup:

I lost my appetite after last year - Russia came in as the favourite and then lost to Ukraine's illegal song entry. But I was more or less done the year before when the victory went to a bearded "woman".


.
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Steveboy on May 14, 2017, 03:03:28 AM
Yes its finished , the liberals have taken the show over! They can't keep their noses out of anything!
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: msmoby on May 14, 2017, 03:06:04 AM
Loved it ...  Shame Russia's entry wasn't allowed by Ukraine and we'd never have heard Steveboy 'sympathy vote' crap ...

Think 'we' should allow in the US and Canada;)

We certainly had diversity....

Romania's entry was 'different' - a yodaling lass ..


Lots of this years entrance were found on their nations' flavour of The Voice

Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: AvHdB on May 14, 2017, 06:20:01 AM
Like allot of other things it is about money, big money.

If one looks at things with this perspective than one can understand why countries such as Australia and Israel participate in Eurovisionless.

I sort of wonder if there is a YouTube version of Abba winning or the failed attempt of Celine Dion performing for Switzerland (I think)?
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Markje on May 14, 2017, 08:08:57 AM
How many of the last 10 year winners had a lasting successful musical career? How many from say 80s to 90s? I think that sums it up for me
Title: Eurovision..
Post by: Jerash on May 14, 2017, 08:30:16 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170514/8c3d0f53af9c50f36ce73fe11bd2b71c.jpg)

Celebrating diversity.... As long as it doesn't include Russia.
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: msmoby on May 14, 2017, 08:39:47 AM
How many of the last 10 year winners had a lasting successful musical career? How many from say 80s to 90s? I think that sums it up for me

UK

Buck's Fizz '81

Katrina and  the Waves '97  - still doing the rounds

IRL

Johnny Logan 80, 87 as a singer and 92 as a composer -still doing the rounds








Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: msmoby on May 14, 2017, 08:47:51 AM
Celebrating diversity.... As long as it doesn't include Russia.

Russia entered at the last possible moment and quite clearly sought a 'fight' by entering a 'wheel-chair' bound lass - who had toured Crimea...    They played her and UA were daft enough to 'bite'...

Result ? Russia now mocks the competition they've tried so hard to win :(  I hope Portugal 2018 will enjoy a Russian entry - otherwise they are cutting off their noses to spite themselves   

Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Manny on May 14, 2017, 09:05:10 AM
Celebrating diversity.... As long as it doesn't include Russia.

I didn't watch it. Political nonsense.

Usual BBC nonsense too: https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/863514162923700224
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Contrarian on May 14, 2017, 09:31:12 AM
How many of the last 10 year winners had a lasting successful musical career? How many from say 80s to 90s? I think that sums it up for me

You forgot the 70's.

http://www.youtube.com/v/3FsVeMz1F5c 
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: B.B. on May 14, 2017, 11:54:24 AM
Celebrating diversity.... As long as it doesn't include Russia.

Russia invades and annexes Crimea...and now they don't get to be in Eurovision in Kiev.  Boo, hoo, hoo.

I'm sure Russia will get its shot next year ... provided it can manage not to invade Portugal in the interim.   :chuckle:

B/B
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: B.B. on May 14, 2017, 11:57:38 AM
This year is a guy waiting for a heart operation...

That was widely regarded as lame.  I am actually in Kiev at the moment, and visited the Ukr Folk Fan Zone in Sophia Square which was far better than the competition in general, IMO, although it wasn't limited to folk.  There was an orchestra playing Beethoven's Fifth earlier today, demonstrating that Beethoven WAS Metal Before There Was Electricity.  :chuckle: 

They have a rock band playing there right now.  Much better than the crapola yodeling and warbling etc.

B/B
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Contrarian on May 14, 2017, 02:05:05 PM
Celebrating diversity.... As long as it doesn't include Russia.

Russia invades and annexes Crimea...and now they don't get to be in Eurovision in Kiev.  Boo, hoo, hoo.

I'm sure Russia will get its shot next year ... provided it can manage not to invade Portugal in the interim.   :chuckle:

B/B

Invading Portugal might require assault ships for that purpose.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Manny on May 15, 2017, 12:00:14 PM
Russia invades

It was not really an invasion. They were merely protecting their assets before the yobs paid by you lot, the EU and Soros got a grip of them. It was more defensive. Democratic really as it followed the will of the people and corrected a historical anomaly at the same time.
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Jerash on May 15, 2017, 01:09:16 PM
Based on several reports from multiple sources, people in Krimea are happy with the change. No more Ukrainian chaos.


.
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Markje on May 15, 2017, 01:21:45 PM
Based on several reports from multiple sources, people in Krimea are happy with the change. No more Ukrainian chaos.


.

Im hearing the same things.
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: B.B. on May 16, 2017, 03:00:26 AM
It was not really an invasion.

Lulz, then what was it 'really'?  C'mon, dude.  Just stop.  There is no credible "oh, but it really wasn't an invasion" story, here.

They were merely protecting their assets before the yobs paid by you lot, the EU and Soros got a grip of them.

Imagine if Brussels dispatched EU troops - er, or some soldiers from EU countries went 'on vacation' - to Scotland and then seized it before that Teresa May woman could implement Brexit.  Or to Little Baghdad London.  You'd be dialed-up to 11....

It was more defensive.

Staahp, before your credibility goes full hemorrhage. 

Democratic really as it followed the will of the people and corrected a historical anomaly at the same time.

Russia agreed, via international treaty obligations (see Memorandum on Security Assurances in connection with Ukraine's accession to the Treaty on the NPT (http://www.cfr.org/nonproliferation-arms-control-and-disarmament/budapest-memorandums-security-assurances-1994/p32484)), to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine, to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

Thus the need for the tiniest of fig leaves with the slow-motion invasion of Ukraine via false flag operation, in which they managed to forget or not bother to take the Russian license plates off of the trucks.  Oops.

Based on several reports from multiple sources, people in Krimea are happy with the change. No more Ukrainian chaos.

Let's assume that it true.  It was still and invasion and a violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and Russia's treaty obligations (see above).  Furthermore, while Ukraine does permit secession, it is to be voted on by the entire country, not administered by an occupying foreign power that somehow managed to not include a "stay in Ukraine" option on the "referendum" the result of which was a foregone conclusion.

Bear in mind that I don't particularly care whether Crimea is part of Ukr or Rus, but let's stop with the attempted gaslighting about how it went down. 

B/B

Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Markje on May 16, 2017, 03:36:07 AM
Let's assume that it true.  It was still and invasion and a violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and Russia's treaty obligations (see above).  Furthermore, while Ukraine does permit secession, it is to be voted on by the entire country, not administered by an occupying foreign power that somehow managed to not include a "stay in Ukraine" option on the "referendum" the result of which was a foregone conclusion.

Crimea was already a republic of their own which deferred some authority to Ukraine. Law-wise speaking it was a difficult contraption. Crimea did have the authority to secede from Ukraine all by its own without Ukraine's approval. Ukraine had in its laws indeed a probition which would need the entire country to vote, but that was not in Crimea's law.

Russia provided troops and means to make sure the Ukrainian army would not interfere with this process. That they claimed they were unrelated green men at first, was lying through their teeth and everyone knew that. They were Russian soldiers.

If California were to vote to leave the USA, would the USA need to agree on that?
If Scotland were to leave the UK, would the UK need to agree on that?

Kosovo was handled much the same, although that process did have the UN's approval and Moscow moved on Crimea far too swiftly for anyone to respond.

However all that doesnt change 1 fact:

Crimea was happy with their choice, and now 2 years later they are still happy with their choice. The majority is happy. Therefore the only sane thing to do was to acknowledge it and stop these silly sanction-games.

Ukraine lost , because it made the people unhappy. If Crimea was a happy camper, they'd have never voted to leave.
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: B.B. on May 16, 2017, 06:26:00 AM
Crimea was already a republic of their own which deferred some authority to Ukraine. Law-wise speaking it was a difficult contraption. Crimea did have the authority to secede from Ukraine all by its own without Ukraine's approval. Ukraine had in its laws indeed a probition which would need the entire country to vote, but that was not in Crimea's law.

According to article 73 of the 1996 Constitution of Ukraine and article 3 of the 2012 Ukrainian law "On all-Ukrainian referendum", territorial changes can only be approved via a referendum where all the citizens of Ukraine are allowed to vote, including those that do not reside in Crimea.

You are also failing to account for Russia's obligations under the Memorandum on Security Assurances in connection with Ukraine's accession to the Treaty on the NPT. 

Russia provided troops and means to make sure the Ukrainian army would not interfere with this process. That they claimed they were unrelated green men at first, was lying through their teeth and everyone knew that. They were Russian soldiers.

The fix was in from the beginning.  Can we just stop pretending?

If California were to vote to leave the USA, would the USA need to agree on that?

Actually, it would require the USA to agree.  We fought a war about such things, and the matter was decided in the affirmative.  There's actually a SCOTUS case on the subject as well, "Texas v White", that says no.  So basically it would require a constitutional amendment.

If Scotland were to leave the UK, would the UK need to agree on that?

As I understand it, Scotland would need permission from Parliament

However all that doesnt change 1 fact:

Crimea was happy with their choice, and now 2 years later they are still happy with their choice. The majority is happy. Therefore the only sane thing to do was to acknowledge it and stop these silly sanction-games.

There was never a free choice.  You are welcome to point to the 'status quo' option on the referendum ballot to stay in Ukraine.  It was a fraud from the beginning. 

Ukraine lost , because it made the people unhappy.

Ukraine lost because Russia is and was a much stronger nation, and able to impose its will.

If Crimea was a happy camper, they'd have never voted to leave.

There was never a "stay" option.

B/B
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Texan77 on May 16, 2017, 07:51:55 PM
Let's assume that it true.  It was still and invasion and a violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and Russia's treaty obligations (see above).  Furthermore, while Ukraine does permit secession, it is to be voted on by the entire country, not administered by an occupying foreign power that somehow managed to not include a "stay in Ukraine" option on the "referendum" the result of which was a foregone conclusion.

Crimea was already a republic of their own which deferred some authority to Ukraine. Law-wise speaking it was a difficult contraption. Crimea did have the authority to secede from Ukraine all by its own without Ukraine's approval. Ukraine had in its laws indeed a probition which would need the entire country to vote, but that was not in Crimea's law.

Russia provided troops and means to make sure the Ukrainian army would not interfere with this process. That they claimed they were unrelated green men at first, was lying through their teeth and everyone knew that. They were Russian soldiers.

If California were to vote to leave the USA, would the USA need to agree on that?
If Scotland were to leave the UK, would the UK need to agree on that?

Kosovo was handled much the same, although that process did have the UN's approval and Moscow moved on Crimea far too swiftly for anyone to respond.

However all that doesnt change 1 fact:

Crimea was happy with their choice, and now 2 years later they are still happy with their choice. The majority is happy. Therefore the only sane thing to do was to acknowledge it and stop these silly sanction-games.

Ukraine lost , because it made the people unhappy. If Crimea was a happy camper, they'd have never voted to leave.

I guess this would be consider a fair and normal election in Russia.

First the opposition was not aloud to organized and many were jailed and some never seen again.

Second voting groups that would of likely voted against it were intimated into not voting.

Third from what can be determines by any poling the Russian never bother to count the votes they just made up the numbers.

You are right about the way Russia came in fast for any body to react. This was a huge surprise and no plans were made in advance of Russia doing this nor were any materials in place for this. So why do you now complain about nato's reaction to Russia by placing thousands of troops near the Russian border. If Russia chooses to behave this way there is no choice. 
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Markje on May 18, 2017, 02:39:28 AM
B.B. ,
First nice to have a real discussion about Crimea, however I would have thought better of you.

According to article 73 of the 1996 Constitution of Ukraine and article 3 of the 2012 Ukrainian law "On all-Ukrainian referendum", territorial changes can only be approved via a referendum where all the citizens of Ukraine are allowed to vote, including those that do not reside in Crimea.
But Like I said, it wasn't in Crimea's law, and Crimea under the Ukrainian constitution was a seperate republic (country) with its own laws and privileges. According to their law, it was within their right to leave Ukraine and take back their sovereignty. (Much like the UK is doing with Brexit... it was for some people all about getting a say back on their own country).

You are also failing to account for Russia's obligations under the Memorandum on Security Assurances in connection with Ukraine's accession to the Treaty on the NPT. 
Since I don't know anything about that, I will concede this point to you.

The fix was in from the beginning.  Can we just stop pretending?
Because of the people, the fix was in from the beginning, not because of Russia. Russia just made the "unofficial" situation "official".

Actually, it would require the USA to agree.  We fought a war about such things, and the matter was decided in the affirmative.  There's actually a SCOTUS case on the subject as well, "Texas v White", that says no.  So basically it would require a constitutional amendment.
Ok, thanks for the information.

If Scotland were to leave the UK, would the UK need to agree on that?

As I understand it, Scotland would need permission from Parliament
Perhaps my examples were unclear. so would the UK require (absolutely require, by law) article 50 of the EU to leave? Or can they just declare it all null and void and return to day X -1 just before signing the article to join the EU.

However all that doesnt change 1 fact:

Crimea was happy with their choice, and now 2 years later they are still happy with their choice. The majority is happy. Therefore the only sane thing to do was to acknowledge it and stop these silly sanction-games.

There was never a free choice.  You are welcome to point to the 'status quo' option on the referendum ballot to stay in Ukraine.  It was a fraud from the beginning. 
If you think that having a 3d option to return to ukraine (because Crimea was already an independent country when the referendum took place, they left Ukraine 3 days prior.) would change the outcome you'd be dead-wrong.
 
Ukraine lost , because it made the people unhappy.

Ukraine lost because Russia is and was a much stronger nation, and able to impose its will.
The public in Crimea: We're going home, we're going home, huuuuuge fireworks and vodka-party.... yeah right.

If Crimea was a happy camper, they'd have never voted to leave.

There was never a "stay" option.

B/B
See above, it wouldn't have mattered. The people wanted to return to Russia since 1991, when the USSR fell apart. Many Crimeans didn't even know they were with Ukraine until that year.

Mark.
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Markje on May 18, 2017, 03:06:27 AM
I guess this would be consider a fair and normal election in Russia.
One of the very few yes. Thats the problem if you "fix" the results all the time, the one time it is normal you aren't believed, especially because of the numbers (96% pro-russia and 80% of voters).

Quote
First the opposition was not aloud to organized and many were jailed and some never seen again.
The opposition was there, they were simply ignored by most of the people.

Quote
Second voting groups that would of likely voted against it were intimated into not voting.

They weren't they simply didn't vote as they realised it was useless. otherwise it would have been 78% pro-russia with a 100% turnout of voters.

Quote
Third from what can be determines by any poling the Russian never bother to count the votes they just made up the numbers.
Thats simply western-media lies. I can't say this any nicer, the western media lied to you.

Quote
You are right about the way Russia came in fast for any body to react. This was a huge surprise and no plans were made in advance of Russia doing this nor were any materials in place for this. So why do you now complain about nato's reaction to Russia by placing thousands of troops near the Russian border. If Russia chooses to behave this way there is no choice.
Russia did the same that we did in Kosovo with the UN help. I think they reacted much faster, more helpful to the locals and the general feelz in Crimea was that this all went excellent and there wasn't much to complain about.

- Tatars got their language back, instead of UKR only.
- Russians were "allowed" to speak Russian again (they always did and noone reported to kiev that they weren't speaking Ukr).
- Everyone's assets got re-evaluated and noted in the Russian logs, corruption went down hugely.
- NONE of the government employees lost their jobs.... the only ones that got replaced quit voluntary and moved back to Ukraine because they felt at home in Ukraine.

- Noone died because of this proceedings. (Despite msmoby's claim otherwise).

As far as coups go, this must've been one of the most friendliest in history. Even friendlier than the replacing of Yanukovich.

Crimea's view on the matter was like this:  OMG WERE GOING HOME!
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: msmoby on May 18, 2017, 03:07:13 AM
The people wanted to return to Russia since 1991, when the USSR fell apart. Many Crimeans didn't even know they were with Ukraine until that year.

Mark.

Oh Ple_EASE ..

1/ Whilst I fully accept that the majority of folk planted in Crimea wanted to be Russia - it was only after a bollox campaign  re Nazis in Kiev and the 'risk' of being attacked ...  Yeah right with 25K plus RU service personnel on the peninsula

2/ Please check your 'facts' - There were plenty of polls that showed the Crimeans enjoyed their status as a self-governing off-shoot

3/ 2011 - the then Russian Consulate General - representing Russian interests .... " Those discussing ceding from Ukraine are criminal subversives" ....   

We have covered this MANY times ... All facts ... perhaps uncomfortable for you - but facts, nevertheless
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Contrarian on May 18, 2017, 12:58:38 PM
I consider Crimea to be more or less quid pro quo for US actions in Kosovo.

It's over and done and while force was used it is clear a majority wanted to be part of Russia.

So the question remaining is what is going to happen with Donbas?  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: d672 on May 18, 2017, 06:11:40 PM
Many Crimeans didn't even know they were with Ukraine until that year.

Mark.

 So are you saying that having Ukrainian license plates on their vehicles didn't give them a hint?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: msmoby on May 19, 2017, 01:04:53 AM
I consider Crimea to be more or less quid pro quo for US actions in Kosovo.

No... that was 'Abkhazia' ... Do read up and check ...   

Crimea was a 'let's divert folks attention from the harsh economic situation'

Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Markje on May 19, 2017, 01:20:02 AM
Many Crimeans didn't even know they were with Ukraine until that year.

Mark.

 So are you saying that having Ukrainian license plates on their vehicles didn't give them a hint?  :laugh:
Before 1991, were there ukrainian license plates?

I'd think everyone would have an USSR license plate.
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Markje on May 19, 2017, 01:27:03 AM
Oh Ple_EASE ..

1/ Whilst I fully accept that the majority of folk planted in Crimea wanted to be Russia - it was only after a bollox campaign  re Nazis in Kiev and the 'risk' of being attacked ...  Yeah right with 25K plus RU service personnel on the peninsula
Yeah lets talk about facts ..... The men in charge directly during and the first month (or 2) after the removal of yanukovich were neo-nazi's complete with video/photo evidence of them bringing the hitler-salute, ss-badges, big nazi-swastikas and other nazi symbols. How are they not nazi's ??? Take a look at ukraine today, Their fears were very justified. The corruption has gone up, not down, there is a full-scale civil war going on against the primarily pro-russian population and the economics have gone to hell. No I think this was definately the reason and in hindsight they were right on the money.


Quote
2/ Please check your 'facts' - There were plenty of polls that showed the Crimeans enjoyed their status as a self-governing off-shoot
Under yanukovich yes, had they not started that little maidan it all wouldn't have happend. Glad we agree on something. Most Crimeans now are happy with events and how the future turned out since then.

Quote
3/ 2011 - the then Russian Consulate General - representing Russian interests .... " Those discussing ceding from Ukraine are criminal subversives" ....   
And he has progressed his insights. Now I think they will claim something completely different.

Quote
We have covered this MANY times ... All facts ... perhaps uncomfortable for you - but facts, nevertheless

You again do not bring facts to the table. Only innuendo that does not match the facts, especially on point one. You can argue it was the 'so-called' reason, but considering how everything turned out, it could very well be the real reason even if it started as a 'so-called' reason.


Mark.
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: msmoby on May 19, 2017, 01:37:22 AM

Before 1991, were there ukrainian license plates?

I'd think everyone would have an USSR license plate.

And they would have indicated a region part of Ukraine SSR ..... 
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: rosco on May 19, 2017, 03:11:10 AM

You are also failing to account for Russia's obligations under the Memorandum on Security Assurances in connection with Ukraine's accession to the Treaty on the NPT. 
Since I don't know anything about that, I will concede this point to you.

Mark.

Moby - here's a big hint for you. This is how adults debate with each other.  tiphat
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: redroo on May 19, 2017, 05:03:11 AM
Anyway......
Back to Eurovision.

Steve you would not have complained about the sympathy vote if a wheelchair lass from Russia would have won, would you.  :fighting0025:
It was clear from the outset that the Russian committee deliberately picked a fight over this knowing Ukraines law about performers that "illegally" peform in Crimea. Russia expected that the EBC would make Ukraine backdown, but they didn't. Russia could have provided another performer but refused. End of story for this year, take your bat and ball and go home to sulk. Better luck next year unless Vlad takes part of Portugal as well.

I flew in for the competition, but missed the semis after a plane cancellation, that led to multiple missed connections.
The friday night full rehearsal was not what I expected, as I kind of expected to be disappointed after all the resignations and finance issues. I wasn't, in fact I thought it was impressive, being actually in the arena. So much so that we went back for the Saturday afternoon runthrough as well.

The Final on Saturday night had great atmosphere. The security to get in had been extremely tight, understandably. The President must have thought it was going to get bombed since he didn't arrive (and later claimed it was in sympathy to those 4 extra lives lost that day).

What I did find having to watch the show for now the 3rd time, that some songs I wasn't in to the first round, had grown on me. The spectacle of lighting, videos, special effects....and yes even running machines was fun and enjoyable. There were no thugs harrasing the gays down on the main floor, who, as always, enjoy themselves in an over the top manner  :party0011:

The mood in the room, in terms of cheering etc, gave no prewarning of the subsequent voting of the Juries. That Portugal was in front at this point was a surprise. During the public voting period was where the local past winners strutted their stuff and that UKRAINIAN idiot wearing an Aussie flag dropped his pants on the stage.  :censored:
After that the young lad from Oz was never going to get any public votes, and the Australian invitation for next year sliped into the bin....who knows now we know who he is.

Anyway, Portugal got the sympathy vote we can agree on that and Steve can dream about what would have happened in a test of who could get the MOST sympathy  :biggrin:
I kinda enjoyed the "yodarapping", the Roma lad, the Brit girl had a great voice and song. The Swedes had every rocking along. Our lad was just ok nothing as good as Dami last year.

And to address the "why is Australia in it" questions. The original invitation a few years back was because Australian TV have broadcast it for so many years, and live. It has a huge following in Australia because we are all migrants from other countries (mainly in Europe) except for the aboriginies. After the "guest" role we were asked to join in the voting part. It seems the only people who complain about Eurovision becoming Worldvision are people who support countries that get less votes  :biggrin:

I predict China (where it is also huge to watch) will get an invite one day  :hidechair:

We raced off to the EuroClub after party held next to Chic night club. This ran all night and we went home at dawn for breakfast. My Ukrainian girl friends that were with me were shocked at the afterparty by all the open "gayness", never having experienced that in public before. Probably about 75% of the males seemed to be from that population grouping and the girls constantly were grimmacing, and expressing their displeasure at not being the usual objects of male attention  :ROFL: Can't say I minded being one of the few straight men there.

About 0300 my phone buzzes with a Messager note saying "are you by any chance standing in the EuroClub right now?"
Turns out to be a young lady I had never met in person although we had chatted about 6 years ago and become each others facebook friend at that time. I could not believe she could recognise me after so long, and with much greyer hair in a crowded nightclub, but up she came to say hullo. A real great surprise, and just a reminder of how small the world can be.

Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: d672 on May 19, 2017, 04:53:48 PM

Before 1991, were there ukrainian license plates?

I'd think everyone would have an USSR license plate.

And they would have indicated a region part of Ukraine SSR .....

 That's what I would think, they wouldn't have the same license plates throughout the whole Soviet Union would they? Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Russia, etc.... surely they would have regional indicators.
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: msmoby on May 19, 2017, 08:41:10 PM


 That's what I would think, they wouldn't have the same license plates throughout the whole Soviet Union would they? Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Russia, etc.... surely they would have regional indicators.

There is a Wiki page on it. I am rather anal about car number ( licence) plates and like to understand where a car is registered.

BTW, Romania and Bulgaria were not part of the USSR.and used different  number plate formats.

In Crimea - residents had to change their car number plates to Russia ones - despite a Federal law stating that Ukraine docs would be valid indefinitely and the Ukrainians didn't recognise these car plates as legal and refused to let them on 'rump' Ukrainian roads ! ( info as of 2016)

http://crimeahrg.org/en/crimean-citizens-are-forced-for-the-replacement-of-ukrainian-car-number-plates-under-the-threat-of-fines/ (http://crimeahrg.org/en/crimean-citizens-are-forced-for-the-replacement-of-ukrainian-car-number-plates-under-the-threat-of-fines/)




 


Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Markje on May 20, 2017, 01:31:00 AM
There is a Wiki page on it. I am rather anal about car number ( licence) plates and like to understand where a car is registered.
Rather than trust the untrustworthy wiki, here's an actual USSR license plate:

For sale on Ebay for $30 or so, but it proves the point . No regional markers , nothing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1990s-USSR-VINTAGE-UKRAINE-OLD-CAR-LICENSE-PLATE-NUMBER-SING-/162365364623


Quote
In Crimea - residents had to change their car number plates to Russia ones - despite a Federal law stating that Ukraine docs would be valid indefinitely and the Ukrainians didn't recognise these car plates as legal and refused to let them on 'rump' Ukrainian roads ! ( info as of 2016)
Again, these are the really known Ukrainian plates post 1991 and in no way invalidate my argument.

And of course some crimeans might have known, but a lot of them didnt. And from, 1954 to 1991 , even owning a car was very expensive. Most people were struggling to buy food, a car would be the last thing on their mind.
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: msmoby on May 20, 2017, 02:42:08 AM
Markje,

I DID say I was anal about car number plates and you are plain wrong .  Wiki and the other sites are bang on.

May be you'd have to have been a little nerdish, but the 'clue' as to an SSR region lay in the last two letters of the number plate from '58 ...   

It was in Cyryllic, e.g EA = Estonia, AZ= Azerbaijan...

http://www.worldlicenseplates.com/world/EU_USSR.html (http://www.worldlicenseplates.com/world/EU_USSR.html)


So much for folks not even realising that Crimea wasn't part of Russia in '91...   




Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Jerash on May 20, 2017, 09:17:21 AM
Markje,

I DID say I was anal about car number plates and you are plain wrong .  Wiki and the other sites are bang on.

May be you'd have to have been a little nerdish, but the 'clue' as to an SSR region lay in the last two letters of the number plate from '58 ...   

It was in Cyryllic, e.g EA = Estonia, AZ= Azerbaijan...

http://www.worldlicenseplates.com/world/EU_USSR.html (http://www.worldlicenseplates.com/world/EU_USSR.html)


So much for folks not even realising that Crimea wasn't part of Russia in '91...   

Pretty sure there's lots of people in Krimea that have never owned a car.


.
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Jerash on May 20, 2017, 09:20:27 AM
Anyway......
Back to Eurovision.

Steve you would not have complained about the sympathy vote if a wheelchair lass from Russia would have won, would you.  :fighting0025:
It was clear from the outset that the Russian committee deliberately picked a fight over this knowing Ukraines law about performers that "illegally" peform in Crimea. Russia expected that the EBC would make Ukraine backdown, but they didn't. Russia could have provided another performer but refused. End of story for this year, take your bat and ball and go home to sulk. Better luck next year unless Vlad takes part of Portugal as well.

I flew in for the competition, but missed the semis after a plane cancellation, that led to multiple missed connections.
The friday night full rehearsal was not what I expected, as I kind of expected to be disappointed after all the resignations and finance issues. I wasn't, in fact I thought it was impressive, being actually in the arena. So much so that we went back for the Saturday afternoon runthrough as well.

The Final on Saturday night had great atmosphere. The security to get in had been extremely tight, understandably. The President must have thought it was going to get bombed since he didn't arrive (and later claimed it was in sympathy to those 4 extra lives lost that day).

What I did find having to watch the show for now the 3rd time, that some songs I wasn't in to the first round, had grown on me. The spectacle of lighting, videos, special effects....and yes even running machines was fun and enjoyable. There were no thugs harrasing the gays down on the main floor, who, as always, enjoy themselves in an over the top manner  :party0011:

The mood in the room, in terms of cheering etc, gave no prewarning of the subsequent voting of the Juries. That Portugal was in front at this point was a surprise. During the public voting period was where the local past winners strutted their stuff and that UKRAINIAN idiot wearing an Aussie flag dropped his pants on the stage.  :censored:
After that the young lad from Oz was never going to get any public votes, and the Australian invitation for next year sliped into the bin....who knows now we know who he is.

Anyway, Portugal got the sympathy vote we can agree on that and Steve can dream about what would have happened in a test of who could get the MOST sympathy  :biggrin:
I kinda enjoyed the "yodarapping", the Roma lad, the Brit girl had a great voice and song. The Swedes had every rocking along. Our lad was just ok nothing as good as Dami last year.

And to address the "why is Australia in it" questions. The original invitation a few years back was because Australian TV have broadcast it for so many years, and live. It has a huge following in Australia because we are all migrants from other countries (mainly in Europe) except for the aboriginies. After the "guest" role we were asked to join in the voting part. It seems the only people who complain about Eurovision becoming Worldvision are people who support countries that get less votes  :biggrin:

I predict China (where it is also huge to watch) will get an invite one day  :hidechair:

We raced off to the EuroClub after party held next to Chic night club. This ran all night and we went home at dawn for breakfast. My Ukrainian girl friends that were with me were shocked at the afterparty by all the open "gayness", never having experienced that in public before. Probably about 75% of the males seemed to be from that population grouping and the girls constantly were grimmacing, and expressing their displeasure at not being the usual objects of male attention  :ROFL: Can't say I minded being one of the few straight men there.

About 0300 my phone buzzes with a Messager note saying "are you by any chance standing in the EuroClub right now?"
Turns out to be a young lady I had never met in person although we had chatted about 6 years ago and become each others facebook friend at that time. I could not believe she could recognise me after so long, and with much greyer hair in a crowded nightclub, but up she came to say hullo. A real great surprise, and just a reminder of how small the world can be.

Cool ending to your story, but really, a straight guy?


.
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Markje on May 20, 2017, 02:57:22 PM
Markje,

I DID say I was anal about car number plates and you are plain wrong .  Wiki and the other sites are bang on.

May be you'd have to have been a little nerdish, but the 'clue' as to an SSR region lay in the last two letters of the number plate from '58 ...   

It was in Cyryllic, e.g EA = Estonia, AZ= Azerbaijan...

http://www.worldlicenseplates.com/world/EU_USSR.html (http://www.worldlicenseplates.com/world/EU_USSR.html)


So much for folks not even realising that Crimea wasn't part of Russia in '91...   

Ah right.... Unfortunately for you, you are wrong. (again).

Any plates on Crimea didn't list Ukraine, I am 99% sure about that because I (obviously) know what was on the plates. I will leave it to you to find it yourself, please use the google.
Wikipedia has a long way to go, but this page will put you on the right direction:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_Soviet_Union#Civilian_vehicles

Some googling knowing what is there, will land you all the way.

Plus even if you do somehow prove this (which after you read above page is impossible), it still wouldn't matter. Most Crimeans didnt know they were part of Ukraine until 1991. Perhaps some well-read people in the upper class knew, perhaps some who actually could spend money on cars and the majority didn't.

Mark.
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: msmoby on May 20, 2017, 10:34:07 PM

Ah right.... Unfortunately for you, you are wrong. (again).

I recall only ONE time when I has been mistaken ...  How interesting

Any plates on Crimea didn't list Ukraine, I am 99% sure about that because I (obviously) know what was on the plates. I will leave it to you to find it yourself, please use the google.
Wikipedia has a long way to go, but this page will put you on the right direction:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_Soviet_Union#Civilian_vehicles

Some googling knowing what is there, will land you all the way.

Plus even if you do somehow prove this (which after you read above page is impossible), it still wouldn't matter. Most Crimeans didnt know they were part of Ukraine until 1991. Perhaps some well-read people in the upper class knew, perhaps some who actually could spend money on cars and the majority didn't.

Mark.
:chuckle:

Markje,

1/ I'm really sorry, but Pravda announced it - and confirmed the Supreme Soviet  confirmation a few days later ... May be given Pravda's reputation for 'fact; it wasn't taken seriously. But are you telling me Soviet People didn't read Pravda or listen to the radio?

2/ I really DID give you plenty of hints as to the folly of arguing with a bloke who is anally retentive re car number plates.... 

The link you used doesn't even include Ukraine SSR plate formats

Can you name me ONE Крымская область code from the Soviet era - when part of Ukraine SSR?

Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: Markje on May 28, 2017, 02:22:18 AM

Ah right.... Unfortunately for you, you are wrong. (again).

I recall only ONE time when I has been mistaken ...  How interesting

Any plates on Crimea didn't list Ukraine, I am 99% sure about that because I (obviously) know what was on the plates. I will leave it to you to find it yourself, please use the google.
Wikipedia has a long way to go, but this page will put you on the right direction:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_Soviet_Union#Civilian_vehicles

Some googling knowing what is there, will land you all the way.

Plus even if you do somehow prove this (which after you read above page is impossible), it still wouldn't matter. Most Crimeans didnt know they were part of Ukraine until 1991. Perhaps some well-read people in the upper class knew, perhaps some who actually could spend money on cars and the majority didn't.

Mark.
:chuckle:

Markje,

1/ I'm really sorry, but Pravda announced it - and confirmed the Supreme Soviet  confirmation a few days later ... May be given Pravda's reputation for 'fact; it wasn't taken seriously. But are you telling me Soviet People didn't read Pravda or listen to the radio?

2/ I really DID give you plenty of hints as to the folly of arguing with a bloke who is anally retentive re car number plates.... 

The link you used doesn't even include Ukraine SSR plate formats

Can you name me ONE Крымская область code from the Soviet era - when part of Ukraine SSR?
Sure I can, and that you are anal about license plates is fine, however you didn't put up any proof of your claims and I already said that it in no way invalidates the claim which you're trying to prove.

I also said that the wiki link didn't put all of it in one easy to digest format, you had to google yourself.

Please stop the bollox now and admit your defeat.
Title: Re: Eurovision..
Post by: msmoby on May 28, 2017, 03:33:33 AM

Sure I can, and that you are anal about license plates is fine, however you didn't put up any proof of your claims and I already said that it in no way invalidates the claim which you're trying to prove.

and yet you didn't post one to demonstrate ....   We BOTH know it will prove something .... as demonstrate your 'assertion' re "not realising they were in Ukraine SSR" was nonsense


I also said that the wiki link didn't put all of it in one easy to digest format, you had to google yourself.

Please stop the bollox now and admit your defeat.
[/quote

It was a VERY simple to digest format in the period I suggested that you check...  Why write lots of words when a simple - you got me - again - would do ?