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Information & Chat => Investment & Business Discussion => Topic started by: Ladine on October 07, 2013, 04:26:47 PM

Title: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Ladine on October 07, 2013, 04:26:47 PM
we all know that I have to communicate on the site Tagged. Now I really need to find contacts in China. Not for the search. I was surprised when I watched the Chinese profiles. They not have many contacts. from 2 to 6 maximum.  and Western people have a minimum of 600 and up to 10,000 contacts. What is this? more employment? or yet more realistic attitude to the internet? more than business people? I like that.
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: el_guero on October 07, 2013, 04:43:47 PM
Why do you need contacts?

Is this dating, or business.

What kind of profiles do they have?  Are these business or personal profiles?

Some of the men on the board said they were experts in the Chinese culture.  Maybe they can help you with the Chinese culture.

PS - having few 'friends' is agreeable with the Asian cultures.  Friends have a built in 'debt' in most of the Asian cultures.
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Ladine on October 07, 2013, 04:49:45 PM
Why do you need contacts?

Is this dating, or business.

What kind of profiles do they have?  Are these business or personal profiles?

Some of the men on the board said they were experts in the Chinese culture.  Maybe they can help you with the Chinese culture.

PS - having few 'friends' is agreeable with the Asian cultures.  Friends have a built in 'debt' in most of the Asian cultures.


I need business contacts. but I see a lot of people do not use English. It will be very difficult to make contact. I know of.

there personal profiles. only friendship. But I hope to find the necessary contacts for me.

by the way of friendship. And do not you know that friendship FSU countries there is almost no? are next only while you have money or have something to take. a hundred friends can be only one true
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: el_guero on October 07, 2013, 06:43:45 PM
In most Asian cultures, if you are my friend, you owe me.

You owe me a birthday present.

You owe me a wedding present.

If you go on a vacation trip, you owe me a present.

Because of that, many Asians prefer 'friends' who are not from their culture.

English is easy.

Try Lingq.com .... it is a language site.
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: cufflinks on December 01, 2013, 08:50:41 AM
If it is business contacts you are after put a business profile up on Alibaba - the basic one is free but Gold is about $3K USD +/- ...

Alibaba is the new Export centered Amazon of China - Yahoo has been revitalized by its large stake in Alibaba which will be the next global mega IPO.  Alibaba is shopping IPO venues perhaps the NYSE.

If you put an interesting business profile up on Alibaba you will have more new contacts than you can imagine from China.
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Manny on December 01, 2013, 12:07:01 PM
There are two Alibaba sites I think? One is a kind of eBay type site?
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: ashbyclarke on December 01, 2013, 01:53:39 PM
Alibaba in my opinion pretty useless, it's a market place for the more unsuccessful companies, some of which are looking to make a quick buck here and there.

Generally these firms offer cheap nasty copies or poor workmanship. Often the end products isn't quite as promised.

If you're serious about any trade with China i'd suggest your local chamber of commerce, they can put you in touch with companies right for the type of product and quantity you require whilst also carrying out any due diligence on the company.

Nothing is certain out there, but its a step in the right direction, and remember china in general isn't interested in small orders.

Also you'll need an agent, someone who speaks local talk and can make sure things happen for you, without one you will be screwed!

Last point, if order quantity is small, which i'd imagine the OP's would be, no offence, then perhaps take a trip out there to one of the trade centres, you should be able to purchase wholesale.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: el_guero on December 01, 2013, 01:55:10 PM
Why do you need contacts?

Is this dating, or business.

What kind of profiles do they have?  Are these business or personal profiles?

Some of the men on the board said they were experts in the Chinese culture.  Maybe they can help you with the Chinese culture.

PS - having few 'friends' is agreeable with the Asian cultures.  Friends have a built in 'debt' in most of the Asian cultures.


I need business contacts. but I see a lot of people do not use English. It will be very difficult to make contact. I know of.

there personal profiles. only friendship. But I hope to find the necessary contacts for me.

by the way of friendship. And do not you know that friendship FSU countries there is almost no? are next only while you have money or have something to take. a hundred friends can be only one true

Ladine,

That is like China .... so, you understand why it is difficult to make 'business friends' with Chinese people over the internet ....
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Ladine on December 01, 2013, 02:12:44 PM
Try Lingq.com .... it is a language site.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Ladine on December 01, 2013, 02:22:42 PM
Thanks Guys. I want to say that I learned Sites aliexpress, and many others. also studied Taobao. I only stopped on alibaba. it gives very low prices but wholesale purchases. But this is a very good site. all other sites are intermediaries. I'm not interested. So I already know their attitude towards our people. Slavic  people are very respected. Our Slavic people there are in great demand and success. especially white girls. yes they are very cautious. They do not believe in friendship. it as well as we have. Some people think that our friendship is only gifts and duty.
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Ladine on December 01, 2013, 02:27:39 PM
There are two Alibaba sites I think? One is a kind of eBay type site?

I know Manny but I have a profile on eBay and Amazon. it all sites intermediaries.

Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Manny on February 25, 2014, 03:06:59 PM
Off topic for here perhaps, but you never know: I think its time to develop one or two after-market products that are 'our own' that are sourced from China. Rather than buying from a middle man. The genre bridges home appliances and simple electronics if that matters. Probably a simple appliance filter or a photovoltaic sensor will be the first product, to test the water.

Does anyone have any experience of this? Does anyone do business in China? Specifically, commissioning and sourcing manufactured products from there? From sending an original sample out [and who to] to having a copied 2000 on the doorstep is the learning curve I need.

I have started Googling, ordering a few books on the subject and reading. I get that it is a big subject and not for the faint-hearted. I get that you may lose a few quid to the unscrupulous while learning (same as anything in that regard). And I get that travelling out there is a must - I am not shy of that. My Russian visa place does Chinese ones too. I am up to speed on import duties and what goes on this side of the water from my experience importing cars from the US in the past.

Anyone can find alibaba.com, taobao.com and madeinchina.com - but I need the skinny from folks in the know about letters of credit, finding an arranger, how to source a good factory, quality control, prototypes, and getting a new item into production and making sure that every man and his dog isn't selling it for $1 on Alibaba next week on the back of my tooling.

Is there a specialist forum someplace that covers manufacturing and importing from China?
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: AkMike on February 25, 2014, 04:06:15 PM
No help from this end Boss.

 But I have eaten at Chinese Restraurant's before!  tiphat
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: NS1 on February 25, 2014, 04:31:01 PM
So you no longer want to pay middle men for the junk, you wish to buy and sell the junk directly  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Halo on February 25, 2014, 04:51:22 PM
I have a client who does this, though the manufacturing is not electronics.  You need a Chinese partner.

Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Slumba on February 25, 2014, 04:56:55 PM
Quote
Anyone can find alibaba.com, taobao.com and madeinchina.com - but I need the skinny from folks in the know about letters of credit, finding an arranger, how to source a good factory, quality control, prototypes, and getting a new item into production and making sure that every man and his dog isn't selling it for $1 on Alibaba next week on the back of my tooling.

Good luck with that... the guys that did Crocs http://www.crocs.com/ , ended up realizing that they needed to buy their own factory in China and run it, in order to have 1 or 2 years of runway before the clones came out.  They had to go to court to sue many of the manufacturers making fake Crocs (which they call "croc-offs" as a fun variant of "knock-off").

Cisco wasn't able to stop it, you won't be able to either... so you will need to plan around it in some way.
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: AJ on February 25, 2014, 05:05:26 PM
Quote
Does anyone have any experience of this? Does anyone do business in China? Specifically, commissioning and sourcing manufactured products from there? From sending an original sample out [and who to] to having a copied 2000 on the doorstep is the learning curve I need.

Manny, as a motorcycle manf- I do have some electronic components and other parts made in China, as well as Taiwan.(mostly Taiwan)
(ECM/CDi's, stators, rotors, AC regulators, DC regulator rectifiers, wiring harnesses, silicone rad. hoses ,engine covers,trans gears, etc)
  That said: I'm not sure i can be of all that much assistance, as i have specific vendors established. As such it's as easy as set specifications, send drawings or sample, get quote and a few prototypes, work out any issues,
 place/confirm  order with established quantities and delivery date.
 wire payment,receive product.Customs clearance is easy,,and no issue..

So it really is no  different than using my local vendors.
For what its worth, the vendors I have there, were met through going to related industry international trade shows and directly contacting the company  reps there after reviewing products on display ,and a bit of word of mouth within the specific industry.

It seems your main hurdle is simply finding a manf that already works in the field of what you've interest.
  I did not wish to go the internet route to establish this type of working relationship,so the trade shows were a great resource.

 I receive  emails often from manf in China attempting to gain business, and assume they are proactively searching the net for potential clients/customers.
I am sure there would be a way for you to appear on the net searches for manf of products in you area of interest as one option.


or
 I can forward that spammy mail i get,  and one might just fit the bill? 
 :chuckle:


 
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: AJ on February 25, 2014, 05:08:29 PM
Important note:

 There are many trading companies that specialize as *go betweens*
More than a few seem UK based actually.

I wanted more direct contact, but for someone looking for an easy in, and time saver of tracking all that down , for a fee that's their specialty.

Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: kievstar on February 25, 2014, 05:11:32 PM
Couple risks - you need a JV partner in China otherwise someone will steal your idea and you will be out of the market (even if you have a patent).  Your not an American so you can use a Chinese government tied company - no foreign corrupt practice act to worry about.  I would encourage you to have a JV partner tied in with the government.

The hardest thing is how to find a JV partner.  In the area you live now see if you can find people who are doing this already.  They may give you leads.  You may also consider Indonesia or Malaysia as many companies have or are moving there as better than China on cost. 
 
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: AJ on February 25, 2014, 05:25:21 PM
Intellectual property risks is high ,a concern,
but also realistically the worry about such is overblown.
Way over blown for a small manufacturer in what is typically small quantities (world market wise)

 If you really make and effectively market some innovative product successfully enough to be worth copying.
Nothing would stop any number of Chinese manf. from copying it no matter where you first made it. :D
Actually its the sincerest form of flattery, and generally by that points you've established the branding and name well enough, as well as distribution ,
that if copies become your biggest concern, you wont be asking or need  advice here?  :biggrin:

If anyone actually thinks making it first in China , radically increases that risk, then I  have a bridge to sell them.

The increased risk of being cloned by manf in China,
 comes from the  success of the product,not where it was first manf.
 :hidechair:
 
The real hurdle is generally one of consistency and quality.The QC departments there still seem to  be struggling with the concept.



 

Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: WOVO on February 25, 2014, 07:01:37 PM
I have been buying elegant dresses from China  (I am in the fashion business)  - found them via alibaba.com    It wasn't easy finding the right one, but all the hard work, and research work - was worth it.   Mind you that many of them have lack of customer services skills.
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Dogsoldier on February 26, 2014, 12:19:25 AM
How about contacting the Chinese Embassy commercial section. They should be able to provide info on or links to some business hubs for a start?
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Chris on February 26, 2014, 12:54:44 AM
I like many have bought from China, and have looked into manufacturing there, many moons ago, (its a minefield) I also know people who do it now,  haven't time to go into things now, but one of your first stops might be your local Chamber of Commerce, pick their brains, seek trading partners and facilitators, you will need them/one.
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Manny on February 26, 2014, 01:25:19 AM
So you no longer want to pay middle men for the junk, you wish to buy and sell the junk directly  :chuckle:

Exactly that.  :chuckle:

Thanks for the replies up to now, and the couple of very useful PMs.  :)
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: ECR844 on February 26, 2014, 04:30:01 AM
Get on a plane (just like you did for the FSU). The personal relationships made and first hand knowledge is invaluable.
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Manny on February 26, 2014, 09:05:45 AM
Get on a plane (just like you did for the FSU). The personal relationships made and first hand knowledge is invaluable.

I've been pricing flights this morning actually. Virgin fly direct to Shanghai from London.  :plane:
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Herrie on February 26, 2014, 11:02:27 AM
Get on a plane (just like you did for the FSU). The personal relationships made and first hand knowledge is invaluable.

I've been pricing flights this morning actually. Virgin fly direct to Shanghai from London.  :plane:
Depending what you need you might be better off more south close to Shenzhen (fly to Hong Kong and hop across the border with the proper visa (they might issue 5 day ones on the spot at the border for UK citizens, country list seems to vary quite often though...). In Shenzhen you need at least someone who speaks the language, English won't bring you very far everywhere.... Might ask around in our office to see if they happen to have some contacts in local manuf. plants
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Chris on February 26, 2014, 12:18:33 PM
So you no longer want to pay middle men for the junk, you wish to buy and sell the junk directly  :chuckle:

Exactly that.  :chuckle:

Thanks for the replies up to now, and the couple of very useful PMs.  :)

Don't tell me Vance 'Kitchen Gangster' Miller will be having some competition sometime soon  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: AJ on February 26, 2014, 01:24:49 PM
Get on a plane (just like you did for the FSU). The personal relationships made and first hand knowledge is invaluable.

I did want face to face personal relationships.
and flying there isn't a bad idea,
but you need to have already decided on a few in a given city or cities to visit.

sound familiar? :)

 The international trade shows (in this case Milan and Koln) worked out well for establishing this, since there were so many manf. in attendance and samples on display. After selecting a few i could go to their home country if needed to further things.
 I have ended up with a few scattered around Asia which would have been more difficult and costly to try to do flying in directly to cities/countries of potential manf's.*shrugs*.

I just dint find  WMVM ,or WOVO , as an effective method, in this type pursuit, verses having  an  industrial ,, umm *social* in Europe (or US) with lots of attendees..and name tags
 :chuckle:









Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: AJ on February 26, 2014, 01:34:47 PM
Amusingly from this discussion of worry about Chinese knockoffs,I received an email today showing an infringement on one of my trademarks.(not  patent)
Seems likely made in China ,  but more funny, its listed by a Brit , on UK-ebay.
What the heck, I bought one!  :chuckle:
I'll wait till its shipped to have egay pull the listing. :innocent:
but demonstrates it wouldn't matter where you first made a product ( i did not make this in Asia) if someone sees any value ,they may attempt to  copy /market it.
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Manny on February 26, 2014, 04:56:28 PM
So you no longer want to pay middle men for the junk, you wish to buy and sell the junk directly  :chuckle:

Exactly that.  :chuckle:

Thanks for the replies up to now, and the couple of very useful PMs.  :)

Don't tell me Vance 'Kitchen Gangster' Miller will be having some competition sometime soon  :chuckle:

This guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vance_Miller).

How strange he is almost on my doorstep, I know of the firm, I recall the name mentioned in the local media, I know that mill even. Yet I didnt really know who the bloke is.

I'd have a beer with him. I am sure he knows some stuff.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Manny on February 26, 2014, 05:17:39 PM
What the heck, I bought one!  :chuckle:

Every time I launch a product or market an item that is not manufacturer approved, the trademark rights holder - as they have web crawlers that alert a team to any mention of their name on the net -  knows within moments. The first one always goes to them (so they can have lawyers crawl all over it). To a seemingly innocuous residential address in the Shires, a few miles from their head office.  :coffeeread:

I once launched a website selling a product, turned it on, did the pre-written Twitter, Facebook, PR feed and Google stuff right after in quick succession, and the first sale was within thirty minutes. To that address.  :reading:

The same company told me a few weeks ago that they wouldn't supply me a certain range of stuff. And that they will alert every agent in Europe of their decision. And they have. I cant even buy in Romania or South Africa!

My response was "Well, if you won't supply me, I'll go and have them made someplace and bring the price down to less than half across the board". They were like "Yeah, whatever".

Well, I like a challenge. Especially if there is a few quid in it. So China here we come.   ;D
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: tonton on February 26, 2014, 05:58:13 PM
Depending what you need you might be better off more south close to Shenzhen (fly to Hong Kong and hop across the border with the proper visa (they might issue 5 day ones on the spot at the border for UK citizens, country list seems to vary quite often though...). In Shenzhen you need at least someone who speaks the language, English won't bring you very far everywhere.... Might ask around in our office to see if they happen to have some contacts in local manuf. plants


As Herrie has noted, Shenzhen would be the city to visit for electronics. Having been there a few times, it's choke full of electrical factories, most are not so reliable in providing quality but there are a handful which I know and have used that are reputable.
English assistance is necessary, and while most of the sales staff have a good grasp of English, an independent person who factories rely on to bring business to them is necessary to ensure that the product manufactured is of sound quality; these persons get paid commission by the factory and if the factory was providing shit then no repeat business. There is a guy I met a few times at trade fairs in Europe who does just this, although from our conversations it related to paper products but am sure he does other. He is an Englishman spending 50/50 between London and China, and I'll track his details and send via PM, plus the factory which I've used for USB manufacture.

L/C's are the only way, never give a deposit--too many sharks there.



Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Manny on February 26, 2014, 06:57:05 PM
I took a punt putting this topic here, my reasoning was that from a bunch of chaps who can afford to travel to the FSU, many will be self employed or in senior positions and many might have relevant experience.

I am shocked (in a nice way) at the quality of replies and PM's. I've got some excellent meat to chew on and even a few potential contacts already. Really impressed.  :thumbsup:

Thanks to everyone who replied on the topic or by PM (and three by Skype). If I haven't replied a PM it doesn't mean I didn't appreciate it. I'll catch up (I can be slow at replying PM's).

Keep it coming.  :nod:
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Chris on February 27, 2014, 01:17:54 AM
So you no longer want to pay middle men for the junk, you wish to buy and sell the junk directly  :chuckle:

Exactly that.  :chuckle:

Thanks for the replies up to now, and the couple of very useful PMs.  :)

Don't tell me Vance 'Kitchen Gangster' Miller will be having some competition sometime soon  :chuckle:

This guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vance_Miller).

How strange he is almost on my doorstep, I know of the firm, I recall the name mentioned in the local media, I know that mill even. Yet I didnt really know who the bloke is.

I'd have a beer with him. I am sure he knows some stuff.  :chuckle:

That's the one, if you get chance watch the documentary's made about his adventures in China, Channel 4 I think a few years ago, where he had his tour coach made out with Olympic rings so it made it easier for him to get around, (less questions asked) a bit of a lovable rogue really, but he has big b*+!!s and certainly knows the market over in China, but even he has been ripped off to the tune of over £100k, by the chinkies, he does what he can to recover it, but usually writes it off as a business expense.
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Manny on March 19, 2014, 03:48:10 PM
Some of the stuff I want made are simple plastic parts. Togliatti has many companies that make such stuff for Aftovaz for cars. The machinery and skill is obviously out there. So I thought, why not manufacture in Russia?

I did a Google search and wifey is all over it talking to folks out there now.

There is a possibility we can manufacture in Russia instead of China. No copyright/IP issues there, money stays in Europe, goods arrive faster by road. No language barriers. Seems like a win win.

I'd rather manufacture in my wife's hometown to be honest. I think we'd be better able to keep a lid on QC and if the places know that some of our family live there, and someone can call down to check something out, they will feel they are dealing with locals. So we might avoid the "foreign rip off".

Liking this idea up to now. It might have some mileage.
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: Mikeav8r on March 19, 2014, 03:50:13 PM
Some of the stuff I want made are simple plastic parts. Togliatti has many companies that make such stuff for Aftovaz for cars. The machinery and skill is obviously out there. So I thought, why not manufacture in Russia?

I did a Google search and wifey is all over it talking to folks out there now.

There is a possibility we can manufacture in Russia instead of China. No copyright/IP issues there, money stays in Europe, goods arrive faster by road. No language barriers. Seems like a win win.

I'd rather manufacture in my wife's hometown to be honest. I think we'd be better able to keep a lid on QC and the places know that some of our family live there, someone can call down to check something out and they will feel they are dealing with locals.

Liking this idea up to now.

So stop talking and start doing... :smokin:
Title: Re: Anyone have any China manufacturing/sourcing/importing experience?
Post by: WestCoast on March 19, 2014, 04:12:23 PM
Some of the stuff I want made are simple plastic parts. Togliatti has many companies that make such stuff for Aftovaz for cars. The machinery and skill is obviously out there. So I thought, why not manufacture in Russia?

I did a Google search and wifey is all over it talking to folks out there now.

There is a possibility we can manufacture in Russia instead of China. No copyright/IP issues there, money stays in Europe, goods arrive faster by road. No language barriers. Seems like a win win.

I'd rather manufacture in my wife's hometown to be honest. I think we'd be better able to keep a lid on QC and the places know that some of our family live there, someone can call down to check something out and they will feel they are dealing with locals.

Liking this idea up to now.

While I have no personal experience with outsourcing to China I have plenty of friends who do. I've been to China on a number of trips with them scouting out factories to make their products, mostly clothing for the North American market. What I can say is if you are trying to outsource small batches, under 100,000 units, of low cost, under $1 per unit, of simple to make plastic parts you will find lots of factories in China to fill your orders. You will also find many problems.

As you mention the first problem is the language barrier. Most of the factories have people that speak English, of varying degrees. Some of the Chinese owners are North American born entrepreneurs who are fluent in English. Others not so much. The quality and quantity of English speakers rose rapidly prior to the Beijing Olympics and while still improving has a ways to go before you'd feel comfortable in most meetings at the average factory.

Quality control is always a big issue. My friends who were born and raised in China and now live in Canada (at least part time) are always complaining about having to keep an eye on QC issues. The Chinese factories will cut corners every chance they get, just to save a few pennies. If mega corporations such as Apple have QC issues (http://www.idownloadblog.com/2013/04/22/apple-rejects-iphones-yuck/), what chance does the little guy have?

Plus as you say Russia is far closer than eastern China. Your costs will go through the roof if you have to travel to China every month or two just to consult or hunt for a new factory to manufacture your next batch.