Newbie's First Impressions & Proposed Plan of Attack

[Gideonzsword]

Also I haven't been to Europe in a while and I haven't had a vacation since 2004, so I dont mind going on an exploratory trip that might be a wash as far as the three ladies are concerned.

Was focused on the darned Middle East for so long..gave that region the best ten years of my life. I need to reconnect with Europe in a sense. Get over that lost decade in the sandbox

[Manny]

Finances allowing, better to go and get your feet wet. Expect nothing substantive to come of a first trip. Just sniff around, meet a few women, get ripped off by a local taxi driver, all that......

Its a learning curve. May as well get started.

[Gideonzsword]

Finances allowing, better to go and get your feet wet. Expect nothing substantive to come of a first trip. Just sniff around, meet a few women, get ripped off by a local taxi driver, all that......

Its a learning curve. May as well get started.

Sounds good. Yeah airfare is pretty affordable. Round trip on a safe airline for less than $1000 is a hell of a deal (plus I can travel standby for free ).

That Bride Guide come in a kindle/e-book version?

[luke]

C. 2 or 3 dates are awesome both insist that we hang out more. At this point I think I'd want to be honest and say I am meeting several ladies through the agency and I'd like to hang out more to see if we have a connection. This risks burning all three bridges but honesty is the best policy and considering that I am not going to be getting "lovey dovey" via email and skype I am comfortable being honest with these acquaintances. The key is doing this in a respectful manner, I'm not trying to be a player I'm just meeting for coffee and getting to know them. Also in the run up to the visit if I am asked whether I am writing another girl or not I will say yes as I am trying to get to know people.

Never volunteer that you are seeing other women... if they ask what you are doing just be honest tell them you are busy those days, if they ask if you are seeing other women then say "a few" and change the subject immediately. Of course, like you said to pull this off you can't get too lovey dovey or they will flip their shit when you say "a few" haha. Another tactic would be to blame it all on the agency, just say the agency is forcing me to meet these other women, blah blah, just pass the buck..

[Manny]

That Bride Guide come in a kindle/e-book version?

Not yet. We are kinda old fashioned this side of the pond. However, people found it useful even in the antiquated paper format. 

[patagonie]

I have to admit this has me stumped. Trying to attack it from a different angle.

1. Moving visit up to mid-end January for starters. This cuts my contact-to-meet time frame down to around 90 days.
2. Over the next 90 days I take the time to know the girls. I believe that at a distance and with comms regulated through the agency this is a realistic time frame.
3. Fly over and meet for coffee on day 1 & 2. Now here's where things diverge:
A. All the dates are disasters. I would then ask my agency handler (we have great rapport) to send out my pics and letter again stating that I am in town and able to meet for coffee.
B. 1 date is awesome the rest not so much. Rest of trip is focused on hanging out with that lady.
C. 2 or 3 dates are awesome both insist that we hang out more. At this point I think I'd want to be honest and say I am meeting several ladies through the agency and I'd like to hang out more to see if we have a connection. This risks burning all three bridges but honesty is the best policy and considering that I am not going to be getting "lovey dovey" via email and skype I am comfortable being honest with these acquaintances. The key is doing this in a respectful manner, I'm not trying to be a player I'm just meeting for coffee and getting to know them. Also in the run up to the visit if I am asked whether I am writing another girl or not I will say yes as I am trying to get to know people.

All that being said if one of these three just "goes for it" as I've seen FSU girls do before if I sense she is genuine I am going to put up no resistance at all.

I don't want things getting out of hand and I'm willing to risk "burning" a trip if all three fall through when I arrive. If that happens, I'm confident though that I can do well on my own with the services of my agency and translator there and a little bit of prudence regarding cops, cultural norms, etc.

Either way. These women are worth the money and the time.

It is where you are wrong.
Each girl after three or more months of huge correspondance will make plan you coming ONLY for her.
 It is why you are going to manage yourself a lot of problems and loose some eggs in the basket, and the ones you will not loose entirely will loose some interest in you.
And how are you taking care of different girls in  differents locations ?
It is why you should avoid too much emotional investissment for BOTH. Because all professionals will tell you that a REAL relationship starts ONLY when people meet. The only way to prevent too much emotional investissment is to shorten your  correspondance.
And believe me you will meet tons of girls in FSU, with whom you will not spend time on blabla, because those girls want a real life and not a blabla life.

[GuppyCaptain]

Finances allowing, better to go and get your feet wet. Expect nothing substantive to come of a first trip. Just sniff around, meet a few women, get ripped off by a local taxi driver, all that......

Its a learning curve. May as well get started.

Exactly what I'm doing at the present time here in Kharkov. I actually am trying NOT to meet any women as I'm not ready to start yet, but GOOD GOD...........I'll need some muscle relaxer for my neck after Kiev first and now here. 

[GuppyCaptain]

Now here's my proposed plan of attack for choosing Ms. right out of the ladies I am currently communicating with:

I am going to keep with the four women that responded to me for the next few months. In March I am going to take a 10 day sojourn to the country on an agency trip to meet whoever's still in the running.

Following that I will return to the country in 90 days to narrow down the list further, I will return 90 days after that to get the final lady set up on her fiancee visa. At that point we will start getting her qualifications sorted and I will be getting a new lease etc ready for when she arrives.

The total timeline from first communication to filing for her fiancee visa is projected at 1 year. (This includes 3 visits to her, along with a visit from her to me as well as a vacation meetup somewhere in western Europe).

What do people think of that timeline? I'd love to hear your feedback. I am planning on several visits over the course of this time.

Well . . . . . . . . .

Being black makes the process more difficult, not impossible. 

Your search pattern has the form of a "classic WMVM" approach which I personally believe is the best plan.  Your flaw is that you need to meet many more than 4 ladies on the initial visit.  The second flaw is that 5 months from first contact too initial meeting is too long.  I would suggest 60 days maximum.

What happens if you've got no chemistry with any of the 4 you are currently communicating with?  You have to start all over again, right? 

I'd try to have an even dozen on the line when I stepped on the airplane.  Meet all 12 in the first three days you are in country.  Short 1-2 hour coffee meetings are perfect for the initial personal meeting.  DO NOT STOP MEETING GIRLS BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU LIKE ONE!  This is a critical mistake many neophytes make.  Do not make any eliminations until you meet all 12.  Then whittle it down until at the end of the trip, you have one favorite and one runner-up. 

Schedule the second trip to spend time only with the favorite.  The runner-up can be useful if something happens between trips that causes you and the favorite to part ways.     

That's all well and good when it works. Except that some women will refuse to meet a guy who is there meeting other women.

Now see that completely  me off. If any of them pulled that $(*_  on me, I'd ask that they stop dating altogether as well. What a bunch of horsesh!t. I know they're used to men over here that will split up with them at the drop of a hat, but they really need to get over their insecurities if that's actually the way they think. Gimme a break.

[GuppyCaptain]

C. 2 or 3 dates are awesome both insist that we hang out more. At this point I think I'd want to be honest and say I am meeting several ladies through the agency and I'd like to hang out more to see if we have a connection. This risks burning all three bridges but honesty is the best policy and considering that I am not going to be getting "lovey dovey" via email and skype I am comfortable being honest with these acquaintances. The key is doing this in a respectful manner, I'm not trying to be a player I'm just meeting for coffee and getting to know them. Also in the run up to the visit if I am asked whether I am writing another girl or not I will say yes as I am trying to get to know people.

Never volunteer that you are seeing other women... if they ask what you are doing just be honest tell them you are busy those days, if they ask if you are seeing other women then say "a few" and change the subject immediately. Of course, like you said to pull this off you can't get too lovey dovey or they will flip their shit when you say "a few" haha. Another tactic would be to blame it all on the agency, just say the agency is forcing me to meet these other women, blah blah, just pass the buck..

How about just being honest from the start and if they can't handle it, well then they might not be meant to be. My ex-wife was a good looking woman, but boy was she insecure. That trait manifests itself in so many negative ways down the road in a relationship.

I think I'll just go into it being completely honest from the get go. If they have themselves convinced that even though we barely know each other, I'm supposed to travel 5,000 miles and spend some sizable coin "just to see them", well then they need to grow a little more self-confidence.

Now if we've already seen each other once, hit it off and it's now a return trip we're talking about, well then I can understand that stance, but not until that point in the relationship. I need a woman secure in herself, not a repeat of my first marriage.

[Gideonzsword]

True, True.

Great thread gents. Gonna have to start cranking off the day's letters here in a sec though.

Guppy check your PM's when you have a moment bud, I've been trying to touch base with you

[luke]

How about just being honest from the start and if they can't handle it, well then they might not be meant to be. My ex-wife was a good looking woman, but boy was she insecure. That trait manifests itself in so many negative ways down the road in a relationship.

I think I'll just go into it being completely honest from the get go. If they can't handle the thought that we barely know each other, yet I'm supposed to travel 5,000 miles and spend some sizable coin "just to see them", well then they need to grow a little more self-confidence.

Now if we've already seen each other once, hit it off and it's now a return trip we're talking about, well then I can understand that stance, but not until that point in the relationship. I need a woman secure in herself, not a repeat of last of my first marriage.

There is nothing dis-honest about what I suggested; it's just not volunteering information that can do nothing but hurt you. However in your particular case if insecurity is something that is a deal-breaker for you then sure why not, I guess that's one way to weed those girls out... but some good, confident girls are also going to be mixed in and accidentally weeded out in that process

[GuppyCaptain]

True, True.

Great thread gents. Gonna have to start cranking off the day's letters here in a sec though.

Guppy check your PM's when you have a moment bud, I've been trying to touch base with you

Got your PM Gideon. I'll write back as I can. Had dinner with Michael tonight. As you get older you start to put more and more faith in your gut feelings. We had an extensive and genuine conversation and he's a good guy. Tomorrow I'm going over to the office to shoot the breeze with him some more. Let's hope I don't' run into any of the ladies while there.

Btw, don't worry about visiting here and getting around w/o getting into trouble. Just brush up on some basic Russian. If you have a good sense of your surroundings, can read people and their intentions pretty well, and use common sense......you'll be completely fine (especially since you have extensive Middle Eastern experience).

As for getting ripped off by the cab, let's put it into perspective. On the train over from Kiev today (phenomenal express train btw. I'm thoroughly impressed. 4:35 mins and $42 U.S. for a first class txt), I met an Australian chap who was going to visit a local woman he met while she was working in Australia. We agreed to split the cab fare as his hotel is in the same general area (the Square) as my apartment. Michael asked me to call him on his cell when I got to the taxi so he could speak to the driver which is exactly what I did. 70 UAH for both of us. We tipped him 10 to bring the fare up to 80. That's $10 U.S. dollars split two ways! Exceedingly cheap. Even if they charged you the tourist rate and you paid double it still wouldn't be that exorbitant.

I went to dinner with my host to a nice Georgian restaurant (as I'm a fan of their wines). Four appetizers, two glasses of wine, grilled fish main course, and a tomato juice drink for 300 UAH with tip. That's about $38. It would have cost $60 easy for us back in the States.

Also, what I noticed in Kiev and I'm sure it'll be the same here in Kharkov tomorrow is that street food from street vendors is ridiculous affordable. Anyway my point is that if you can fly standby for free (as I'm fortunate enough to do as well), you can pull off a trip for a very reasonable price. Go for it man.

[Realpainterguy]

Well,
Before I left to meet my wife for the first time I already new she loved me very much.. WOW!! yes and we got married in Ukraine on my second trip 6 months later..

I am 52 she is 39 looks 30 and very very nice lady..
Want to know how I did it???

[GuppyCaptain]

How about just being honest from the start and if they can't handle it, well then they might not be meant to be. My ex-wife was a good looking woman, but boy was she insecure. That trait manifests itself in so many negative ways down the road in a relationship.

I think I'll just go into it being completely honest from the get go. If they can't handle the thought that we barely know each other, yet I'm supposed to travel 5,000 miles and spend some sizable coin "just to see them", well then they need to grow a little more self-confidence.

Now if we've already seen each other once, hit it off and it's now a return trip we're talking about, well then I can understand that stance, but not until that point in the relationship. I need a woman secure in herself, not a repeat of last of my first marriage.

There is nothing dis-honest about what I suggested; it's just not volunteering information that can do nothing but hurt you. However in your particular case if insecurity is something that is a deal-breaker for you then sure why not, I guess that's one way to weed those girls out... but some good, confident girls are also going to be mixed in and accidentally weeded out in that process

Food for thought, Luke. Thanks. I certainly wouldn't throw it in their face that I'm in their city to date others as well, but if pressed I'd refuse to lie about.

[Realpainterguy]

Food for thought, Luke. Thanks. I certainly wouldn't throw it in their face that I'm in their city to date others as well, but if pressed I'd refuse to lie about.
[/quote]

Very well stated...
Date one.. write one... see one.. (well almost)
I made 3 trips 2 to Ukraine 1 to Kazakhstan,, each trip just to see one girl ... no castings no multiple dates..none of that nonsense...
I know it sounds expensive but.. I truly believe my concept on focusing on just one girl to visit each trip help me be more selective in the beginning.. no sense on spinning your wheels and wasting time..
dave

[luke]

Food for thought, Luke. Thanks. I certainly wouldn't throw it in their face that I'm in their city to date others as well, but if pressed I'd refuse to lie about.

I would definitely be honest if asked directly. It's really a pretty loaded question because so much would depend on how "lovey dovey" as Gideon said that you get with them. If your talking seriously about the future and practically negotiating marriage or something, then yeah you better be up front about it. In order to pull off what I was saying you probably wouldn't want to get too serious without them knowing that little tidbit... and maybe the agency has some advice for you on this too. Either way, good luck out there.

[luke]

I made 3 trips 2 to Ukraine 1 to Kazakhstan,, each trip just to see one girl ... no castings no multiple dates..none of that nonsense...
I know it sounds expensive but.. I truly believe my concept on focusing on just one girl to visit each trip help me be more selective in the beginning.. no sense on spinning your wheels and wasting time..
dave

I'm curious, was the last trip Kazakhstan or first trip? What's your impression vs the Ukraine?

[shakespear]

Now see that completely  me off. If any of them pulled that $(*_  on me, I'd ask that they stop dating altogether as well. What a bunch of horsesh!t. I know they're used to men over here that will split up with them at the drop of a hat, but they really need to get over their insecurities if that's actually the way they think. Gimme a break.

Absolutely the correct response. 

Don't lie.  Don't volunteer any information.  Provide evasive answers if directly questioned.  Change the subject as soon as possible.  If they're upset that you are meeting other ladies, let 'em go.  Their loss not yours. 

You're dating.  They have no right to expect exclusivity unless it is MUTUALLY agreed.   

[GuppyCaptain]

Food for thought, Luke. Thanks. I certainly wouldn't throw it in their face that I'm in their city to date others as well, but if pressed I'd refuse to lie about.

I would definitely be honest if asked directly. It's really a pretty loaded question because so much would depend on how "lovey dovey" as Gideon said that you get with them. If your talking seriously about the future and practically negotiating marriage or something, then yeah you better be up front about it. In order to pull off what I was saying you probably wouldn't want to get too serious without them knowing that little tidbit... and maybe the agency has some advice for you on this too. Either way, good luck out there.

Oh definitely be upfront about it before it gets too serious. Then after answering immediately ask them if they're dating others as well...........because you know they are at that point in the game.

The whole thing seems childish. Like high school jealous BS. Isn't this whole pursuit supposed to be between grown ups?

[shakespear]

Very well stated...
Date one.. write one... see one.. (well almost)
I made 3 trips 2 to Ukraine 1 to Kazakhstan,, each trip just to see one girl ... no castings no multiple dates..none of that nonsense...
I know it sounds expensive but.. I truly believe my concept on focusing on just one girl to visit each trip help me be more selective in the beginning.. no sense on spinning your wheels and wasting time..
dave

Sounds to me like your strategy involved LOTS of wasting time.  One trip, one girl. One failure.  Kazakhstan is a long way to travel without any back up plan.   

I know quite a few people who have done the WMVM strategy successfully.  With 100% consistency, their "pre-trip" ranking of the girls changed when they actually met them face to face. 

[GuppyCaptain]

Now see that completely  me off. If any of them pulled that $(*_  on me, I'd ask that they stop dating altogether as well. What a bunch of horsesh!t. I know they're used to men over here that will split up with them at the drop of a hat, but they really need to get over their insecurities if that's actually the way they think. Gimme a break.

Absolutely the correct response. 

Don't lie.  Don't volunteer any information.  Provide evasive answers if directly questioned.  Change the subject as soon as possible.  If they're upset that you are meeting other ladies, let 'em go.  Their loss not yours. 

You're dating.  They have no right to expect exclusivity unless it is MUTUALLY agreed.   

Badda bing. Badda boom. Right on, brother. 

[Boris]

I think you'll do ok. Read here and keep a level head. Don't be afraid to walk away of something doesn't feel right...


. - now Free

[Boris]

Food for thought, Luke. Thanks. I certainly wouldn't throw it in their face that I'm in their city to date others as well, but if pressed I'd refuse to lie about.

I would definitely be honest if asked directly. It's really a pretty loaded question because so much would depend on how "lovey dovey" as Gideon said that you get with them. If your talking seriously about the future and practically negotiating marriage or something, then yeah you better be up front about it. In order to pull off what I was saying you probably wouldn't want to get too serious without them knowing that little tidbit... and maybe the agency has some advice for you on this too. Either way, good luck out there.

Oh definitely be upfront about it before it gets too serious. Then after answering immediately ask them if they're dating others as well...........because you know they are at that point in the game.

The whole thing seems childish. Like high school jealous BS. Isn't this whole pursuit supposed to be between grown ups?

"Supposed to be between grown ups?" Good luck with that....:-))))


. - now Free

[luke]

Oh definitely be upfront about it before it gets too serious. Then after answering immediately ask them if they're dating others as well...........because you know they are at that point in the game.

The whole thing seems childish. Like high school jealous BS. Isn't this whole pursuit supposed to be between grown ups?

If they want to know they will ask, they are smart girls. I had a girl ask me the other night who I have had fairly serious conversations with and I told her "a few." Volunteering your dating life is simply rubbing it in their face. That's the dynamic you are missing, men and women on the dating scene simply don't talk about these things until they want exclusivity... otherwise it's don't ask don't tell

Furthermore, the part I bolded above may make you look like the insecure one in her eyes at least... if she asks you if you are seeing other women then answer briefly and deflect to a different subject, don't ask her who she is dating, what is to be gained? why do you even care?

[Mikeav8r]

Very well stated...
Date one.. write one... see one.. (well almost)
I made 3 trips 2 to Ukraine 1 to Kazakhstan,, each trip just to see one girl ... no castings no multiple dates..none of that nonsense...
I know it sounds expensive but.. I truly believe my concept on focusing on just one girl to visit each trip help me be more selective in the beginning.. no sense on spinning your wheels and wasting time..
dave

Sounds to me like your strategy involved LOTS of wasting time.  One trip, one girl. One failure.  Kazakhstan is a long way to travel without any back up plan.   

I know quite a few people who have done the WMVM strategy successfully.  With 100% consistency, their "pre-trip" ranking of the girls changed when they actually met them face to face.

I am one of those that went over on a WOVO strategy without a Plan B.  Big mistake....twice.  I vowed never to do it again.  I was also using the services of one of the Big 3 "um..not so honest" IMB sites so alternatives were not exactly easy to come by and being a rookie to the adventure, I was ill prepared for salvaging the trip other than being a tourist. 

Having only 22 days of vacation and considering each trip is 40+ hours of traveling round trip (for most of us on this side of the pond), this can be a very expensive and time consuming lesson learned...and it was.