The World's #1 Russian, Ukrainian & Eastern European Discussion & Information Forum - RUA!

This Is the Premier Discussion Forum on the Net for Information and Discussion about Russia, Ukraine, Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union. Discuss Culture, Politics, Travelling, Language, International Relationships and More. Chat with Travellers, Locals, Residents and Expats. Ask and Answer Questions about Travel, Culture, Relationships, Applying for Visas, Translators, Interpreters, and More. Give Advice, Read Trip Reports, Share Experiences and Make Friends.

Author Topic: IMBRA Exemptions - What circumstances?  (Read 14491 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19719
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
IMBRA Exemptions - What circumstances?
« on: May 22, 2007, 11:04:45 AM »
Following the debate on the subject of Should a foreign Agency adhere to IMBRA which can be read by clicking the link, I have been asked a few questions by members by PM which I put here so our collective knowledge base may answer definitively for the guys concerned.

Please clarify my understanding of the IMBRA law correctly in so far as people for whom IMBRA would be not applicable is as follows:

*People who did not actually buy a woman's details.
*Clients of 'Free Russian Personals' and similar sites as above.
*People who met their woman walking in a park, street, bar etc - IE, without an agency.

Is my understanding correct that people who fall into these categories (or claim to) can disregard IMBRA as it does not apply in their case?
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Bruno

  • Member
  • Posts: 66
  • Country: 00
  • Gender: Male
Re: IMBRA Exemptions - What circumstances?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2007, 11:18:39 AM »
Please clarify my understanding of the IMBRA law correctly in so far as people for whom IMBRA would be not applicable is as follows:

*People who did not actually buy a woman's details.
*Clients of 'Free Russian Personals' and similar sites as above.
*People who met their woman walking in a park, street, bar etc - IE, without an agency.

Is my understanding correct that people who fall into these categories (or claim to) can disregard IMBRA as it does not apply in their case?

No, Yes, Yes...

It is not about buying woman's details but about pay service... by example, a agency who give free contact to ladies if you buy a tour orginised by them cannot claim to be exempted from the IMBRA... the text exclude free site and religous one... but yet, no juridic history about free site... is it freepersonals.ru really free ? They earn money with publicity, when they send you to other agency by clicking a advert... the law don't give a lot of details... what is a free site, what is a religious site...

If i build a pay site where the name is "Orthodox russian wife", do it mean that IMBRA is not apply to my customer... of course, i will build other site for the "Muslim Russian wife" and "Catholic Russian wife"... is it the site "non-beliver russian wife" a religious site ?

What think a lawer of this... and certainly, what think a judge about it ? And how can US enforce US laws at the international level when they have always refuse to participate in any attempt from international justice ( by example, the La haye tribunal )... for a law to be international, agrement between country is needed... IMBRA is a US law for US agency against US customer !!!

Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19719
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: IMBRA Exemptions - What circumstances?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2007, 11:29:48 AM »
Quote from: Bruno
IMBRA is a US law for US agency against US customer !!!

Yes and no. A reputable non compliant foreign agency needs to be in a position to advise US clients how to circumvent this law. So, although not bound by it themselves, they should be in a position to explain the implications. Also, US men who met women by other means need to know how not to drop themselves in it.

Also, something else has cropped up, part of the same question........

It is alleged, that you dont have to just pay for contact details, if you make any payment to a site and they "otherwise facilitate" communication, ie emails, translations, etc. you will be into the mire which is called IMBRA.

But what of a guy who meets a woman at an exempt site, and uses 3rd party translation or other service facilitating communication?
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.


Offline Bobalouie

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 518
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Names Ash....Housewares
Re: IMBRA Exemptions - What circumstances?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2007, 11:41:03 AM »
Here is the rub though, even though the law is only enforceable against US held entities, the CO could still deny a visa based on the IMB not following the law.  Here is my situation:

I joined Amazingloves in June 2006, which is post the IMBRA enactment date.  I was never asked to submit any information for a background/Nat Sex offender check.  I corresponded with ladies, and went over there to meet them.  Now, what would happen if I decided to tie the knot?  The CO would know that I met the lady thru an IMB because I would have stated it on the I-129F and provided all the pertinent information.  When the CO asks the lady if she received a copy of the background stuff and signed a statement saying that it was ok for us to communicate/meet, she is going to say no.  That COULD be grounds for a denial right there.

I originally posted this on visa journey as well, but only got a response from Turbo who basically said (and I am paraphrasing here) Dont worry about it because they are not enforcing that stuff yet.  But with my luck, I would be the first one who it would be enforced against!

So, as a work around, do I get a background/Nat sex offender check here at home and take it with me if I was to decide to get married?  Do I make up a back dated questionare form for her to sign like some of the bigger IMBs have on their websites?  I am just curious what you guys think.

I would also like to hear from anyone who started corresponding with their lady post IMBRA enactment and have had their interview, but did not have any of the background stuff done beforehand, just to see what the CO's said to thier ladies.  Oh, and for the record, I have nothing to hide, I just want to make sure that if I were to decide to get married, that I would not be giving the "process" a reason to send me an RFE or an Intent to Deny!

Thanks fellas

Edit to clarify: Amazingloves does not give out contact details, you pay a membership fee and write to the ladies thru the agency email, they translate, and pass on to the ladies.  So they definitely fall into the IMB catagory.  This post is also not a knock against Amazingloves, and I am the original person who has been asking Manny all these questions.  Turbo, I think I was clearer in this post than the one on VJ, so if you have something to add, please do, but if not, thats ok.
Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun!

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8552
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: IMBRA Exemptions - What circumstances?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2007, 12:15:39 PM »
But what if neither you nor your new woman ever talk about dating sites on their application.

Just say you traveled for culture and met your woman whilst on-site.

You paid the agency for the tour, not woman.
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline Turboguy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1907
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: IMBRA Exemptions - What circumstances?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2007, 08:52:04 PM »
If they start enforcing it that is the option most will choose.  Lie,  Sad isn't it.

All I can add Bobalouie is that they seem to be cranking up the enforcement of IMBRA.   At some time I would not be surprised to see the agency requirements enforced.   When is anyones guess.  I would say not until the new fees go in and they have a lot more money for fees.    With the fees being tripled they should be able to afford more staff to follow up on things more.

Offline Corp

  • Member
  • Posts: 183
  • Gender: Male
Re: IMBRA Exemptions - What circumstances?
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2007, 11:55:15 PM »
But what if neither you nor your new woman ever talk about dating sites on their application.

Just say you traveled for culture and met your woman whilst on-site.

You paid the agency for the tour, not woman.


Your first suggestions has merrit. To claim you met the lady at random on Yahoo Chat would remove you from the confines of IMBA.
 To say you did not "pay" for the introduction when using a service which is considered under the defintion of IMBA does not get you off the hook.

I met a lady in the "free" section of a site which makes it money by selling addresses, even though I paid nothing, the fact remains the business falls under the catagory IMBA covers because of the nature of it's business, it clientel, it's pricing structure (men only pay).

"Ah Courtship, It Really is Theater..."

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8552
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: IMBRA Exemptions - What circumstances?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2007, 04:19:14 AM »
Thanks for the clarification. I am glad I don't fall under Imbra then, but the NL have other hoops my future beloved has to jump through, as well as a few for me.

For instance: Any person who wishes to immigrate to netherlands have to have a basic understanding of the dutch language before they will allow it. This means you have to pass an exam in dutch at the dutch embassy in your own country before your application is reviewed.
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline Voyager

  • Meмber
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5212
  • Gender: Male
Re: IMBRA Exemptions - What circumstances?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2009, 06:30:23 PM »

For instance: Any person who wishes to immigrate to netherlands have to have a basic understanding of the dutch language before they will allow it. This means you have to pass an exam in dutch at the dutch embassy in your own country before your application is reviewed.


That really should be a requirement for any country, to speak at least basic language?

Offline WestCoast

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9861
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
Re: IMBRA Exemptions - What circumstances?
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2009, 06:51:29 PM »

For instance: Any person who wishes to immigrate to netherlands have to have a basic understanding of the dutch language before they will allow it. This means you have to pass an exam in dutch at the dutch embassy in your own country before your application is reviewed.


That really should be a requirement for any country, to speak at least basic language?

Supposed it is coming to Canada but I really do doubt that the Conservatives can pull it off.  Too many people come to Canada with no understanding of English or French. 
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline rhayes026

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 503
  • Gender: Male
Re: IMBRA Exemptions - What circumstances?
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2009, 01:33:13 PM »
Following the debate on the subject of Should a foreign Agency adhere to IMBRA which can be read by clicking the link, I have been asked a few questions by members by PM which I put here so our collective knowledge base may answer definitively for the guys concerned.

Please clarify my understanding of the IMBRA law correctly in so far as people for whom IMBRA would be not applicable is as follows:

*People who did not actually buy a woman's details.
*Clients of 'Free Russian Personals' and similar sites as above.
*People who met their woman walking in a park, street, bar etc - IE, without an agency.

Is my understanding correct that people who fall into these categories (or claim to) can disregard IMBRA as it does not apply in their case?

Also if you have a medical condition like mine you "might" be exempt, but I am going over just to make sure. I can only have a couple of days though. :(
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.---Benjamin Franklin

Offline hyap

  • Member
  • Posts: 11
  • Gender: Male
Re: IMBRA Exemptions - What circumstances?
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2010, 12:16:26 AM »
advice anyone?

I met a pretty nice girl in Kharkov through the Anastasia site. 
(I've met a bunch of scammers too!)

But I made the unfortunate mistake of obtaining her postal address through the website mail without obtaining the background check, disclosure and consent form.

I've heard all of the warnings about K-1 visa denial on these grounds. 
But has anyone really been denied a visa on these grounds?

I was reading the law carefully and it seems that the consular officer must CONFIRM if the background disclosure was done. But it does not state that the background check, disclosure and consent PRIOR to exchange of personal contact information is  a requirement.

It does state that it is a requirement for the IMBRA, of course, but not necessarily for the VISA PETITIONER. 

So  - has anyone been denied a visa already based on exchange of personal contact information prior to background check, disclosure and consent?

thanks,

-h-bomb
H-bomb