The World's #1 Russian, Ukrainian & Eastern European Discussion & Information Forum - RUA!

This Is the Premier Discussion Forum on the Net for Information and Discussion about Russia, Ukraine, Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union. Discuss Culture, Politics, Travelling, Language, International Relationships and More. Chat with Travellers, Locals, Residents and Expats. Ask and Answer Questions about Travel, Culture, Relationships, Applying for Visas, Translators, Interpreters, and More. Give Advice, Read Trip Reports, Share Experiences and Make Friends.

Author Topic: Usage of Russian and UK Passports at Different Borders  (Read 22866 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15865
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Usage of Russian and UK Passports at Different Borders
« on: December 07, 2009, 04:19:01 PM »
We recently put in wifey's application for Naturalisation. She should get it early next year - all well and good.

Her forthcoming UK passport will be in her married surname. Her Russian passport is in her maiden name. That is how we want it to stay.

So we have read everywhere that its very easy: You travel to Russia using your Russian passport, and you come back using your UK passport.

However, wifey sees an issue with this. Leaving the UK, she can show a Russian passport to demonstrate right of entry to Russia. No problem (differing surname can be explained - we are logical here). However, leaving Russia, bound for the UK, because she was not stamped into Russia on her UK passport and has no visa, and will not have a current UK visa in her Russian passport (because it is in her old one), she is worried.

If she shows both, she feels the difference in surname between the two passports will create problems (because one must register marriage in Russia and she never did because we married in England). She doesn't want the hassle of having to change her internal passport, propiskas etc. It is simpler she stays maiden name in Russia.

Options include: Getting a Russian visa in her UK passport - ludicrous as she is a RU citizen anyway. Paying the Home Office even more money to duplicate her ILR in her new Russian passport (and assume they wont notice she was never stamped out of the UK). Show her old Russian passport with ILR in to demonstrate right of entry - she is wary of doing that even though she read you can.

She thinks making it complicated leaving Russia with multiple travel documents in various names will just leave her open to delays, bribes and general hassle.

Does anyone here have a wife who maintained her Russian surname in her Russian passport and her married name in her UK (or US) passport? How is this best approached?
please tell me where I'm being / have been 'dishonest'? 
Yes, he said that.........

Offline sparky114

  • Supporting Member
  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4184
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Usage of Russian and UK Passports at Different Borders
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2009, 11:46:44 PM »
OK Manny here goes so many questions  :o

Quote
We recently put in wifey's application for Naturalisation. She should get it early next year - all well and good.

Her forthcoming UK passport will be in her married surname. Her Russian passport is in her maiden name. That is how we want it to stay.

Well done this will enable you to travel where you like, and no silly Visa's, But is of no use to travel to Russia :o well a little as you get back to the UK you can go through the returning citizen exit you know the one  ;D

Quote
However, wifey sees an issue with this. Leaving the UK, she can show a Russian passport to demonstrate right of entry to Russia. No problem (differing surname can be explained - we are logical here). However, leaving Russia, bound for the UK, because she was not stamped into Russia on her UK passport and has no visa, and will not have a current UK visa in her Russian passport (because it is in her old one), she is worried.

OK lets get down to it  :sick0012: when you buy Wifey ticket to RUSSIA you buy it in her maiden name she then technically flys HOME then when she returns to the UK she shows her Russian passport with ILR in it and on arrival she shows her UK Passport as they do not check tickets at customs :) or she can just use Russian passport like she has done for last umpteen years :) if it is her old passport she will have to carry this unless you pay for the visa to be put in her new International Passport about £150 if i remember rightly :(

Quote
If she shows both, she feels the difference in surname between the two passports will create problems (because one must register marriage in Russia and she never did because we married in England). She doesn't want the hassle of having to change her internal passport, propiskas etc. It is simpler she stays maiden name in Russia.

All answered above she will never use her UK passport to enter Russia  ::) she is Russian and always will be Russian there is no Joint citizenship allowed in Russia
At this point i will point out that when you get her UK PASSPORT on the line nationality it will state  the following RUSSIAN

Just because she has a UK passport it will not make her English she will be a Russian citizen with UK passport

Quote
Options include: Getting a Russian visa in her UK passport

Think about it now after reading the above statement

You can not have a Russian visa issued to a Russian citizen yes she has a UK passport but she is still Russian. just like giving a UK citizen a UK VISA  ::)

Quote
Paying the Home Office even more money to duplicate her ILR in her new Russian passport (and assume they wont notice she was never stamped out of the UK). Show her old Russian passport with ILR in to demonstrate right of entry - she is wary of doing that even though she read you can.

Already explained above

Quote
She thinks making it complicated leaving Russia with multiple travel documents in various names will just leave her open to delays, bribes and general hassle.

They as far as I am aware do not give hassle or bribes to Russians when travelling correctly  ;D all in her maiden name for every trip to Russia it will now give you as much hassle to do as it always have
Forget using the UK Passport for these trips it has no use  :Zzzzsleep:but then again i would always travel with it safely concealed somewhere just in case :-Xor to use if the UK/EU channel the queue is shorter. :-X

Many of My UK/Russian friends do this and never have any problems it is just the first time fear of the unknown and also you have put the added UK Passport thing in just to confuse it

GOOD LUCK

sorry so long mate give me a call if you want :)

Today is only one day in a life of happiness

Mark

Offline BCKev

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 880
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: Usage of Russian and UK Passports at Different Borders
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2009, 12:27:27 AM »
Something to keep in mind:  the airlines always seem to be interested in you having the correct passport or visa that will allow entry at your destination.

On leaving Russia, I would assume that she would have to show her UK passport to the airline, and the Russian passport to the Russian immigration crew.

In Ukraine, the marriage certificate is also used as a name change document(where wife changes her surname). If it is the same in Russia, wouldn't hurt to carry a copy of the marriage certificate to explain different names.


Offline sparky114

  • Supporting Member
  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4184
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Usage of Russian and UK Passports at Different Borders
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2009, 12:40:38 AM »
Something to keep in mind:  the airlines always seem to be interested in you having the correct passport or visa that will allow entry at your destination.

On leaving Russia, I would assume that she would have to show her UK passport to the airline, and the Russian passport to the Russian immigration crew.

In Ukraine, the marriage certificate is also used as a name change document(where wife changes her surname). If it is the same in Russia, wouldn't hurt to carry a copy of the marriage certificate to explain different names.

kev i agree with some of your post

But the airline will want to see a passport showing the same name as the Ticket says now she will have to show her Russian passport for this and her old one with the ILR Visa in it for entry back to the UK.

And on leaving the UK her Russian passport is proof enough to say she can go to Russia so the UK passport has no part to play in the whole process.


This is the way you will always fly back to Russia if you do not want to change passports in russia to maiden name, and at the end of the day there is no real need unless it is personal preference to change all into married names.

yes i agree it might be a good idea to carry a copy of marriage certificate although if you are flying in your maiden name there should be no problem.
Today is only one day in a life of happiness

Mark

Offline WestCoast

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8832
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
Re: Usage of Russian and UK Passports at Different Borders
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2009, 12:45:10 AM »
We recently put in wifey's application for Naturalisation. She should get it early next year - all well and good.

Her forthcoming UK passport will be in her married surname. Her Russian passport is in her maiden name. That is how we want it to stay.

So we have read everywhere that its very easy: You travel to Russia using your Russian passport, and you come back using your UK passport.

However, wifey sees an issue with this. Leaving the UK, she can show a Russian passport to demonstrate right of entry to Russia. No problem (differing surname can be explained - we are logical here). However, leaving Russia, bound for the UK, because she was not stamped into Russia on her UK passport and has no visa, and will not have a current UK visa in her Russian passport (because it is in her old one), she is worried.

If she shows both, she feels the difference in surname between the two passports will create problems (because one must register marriage in Russia and she never did because we married in England). She doesn't want the hassle of having to change her internal passport, propiskas etc. It is simpler she stays maiden name in Russia.

Options include: Getting a Russian visa in her UK passport - ludicrous as she is a RU citizen anyway. Paying the Home Office even more money to duplicate her ILR in her new Russian passport (and assume they wont notice she was never stamped out of the UK). Show her old Russian passport with ILR in to demonstrate right of entry - she is wary of doing that even though she read you can.

She thinks making it complicated leaving Russia with multiple travel documents in various names will just leave her open to delays, bribes and general hassle.

Does anyone here have a wife who maintained her Russian surname in her Russian passport and her married name in her UK (or US) passport? How is this best approached?

The simplest solution is of course the easiest, don't change her surname. Why is it necessary?  If she doesn't change her surname the same name will appear in both passports.

Ipsa scientia potestas est. Knowledge itself is power.   Sir Francis Bacon

Offline sparky114

  • Supporting Member
  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4184
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Usage of Russian and UK Passports at Different Borders
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2009, 12:51:56 AM »
We recently put in wifey's application for Naturalisation. She should get it early next year - all well and good.

Her forthcoming UK passport will be in her married surname. Her Russian passport is in her maiden name. That is how we want it to stay.

So we have read everywhere that its very easy: You travel to Russia using your Russian passport, and you come back using your UK passport.

However, wifey sees an issue with this. Leaving the UK, she can show a Russian passport to demonstrate right of entry to Russia. No problem (differing surname can be explained - we are logical here). However, leaving Russia, bound for the UK, because she was not stamped into Russia on her UK passport and has no visa, and will not have a current UK visa in her Russian passport (because it is in her old one), she is worried.

If she shows both, she feels the difference in surname between the two passports will create problems (because one must register marriage in Russia and she never did because we married in England). She doesn't want the hassle of having to change her internal passport, propiskas etc. It is simpler she stays maiden name in Russia.

Options include: Getting a Russian visa in her UK passport - ludicrous as she is a RU citizen anyway. Paying the Home Office even more money to duplicate her ILR in her new Russian passport (and assume they wont notice she was never stamped out of the UK). Show her old Russian passport with ILR in to demonstrate right of entry - she is wary of doing that even though she read you can.

She thinks making it complicated leaving Russia with multiple travel documents in various names will just leave her open to delays, bribes and general hassle.

Does anyone here have a wife who maintained her Russian surname in her Russian passport and her married name in her UK (or US) passport? How is this best approached?

The simplest solution is of course the easiest, don't change her surname. Why is it necessary?  If she doesn't change her surname the same name will appear in both passports.



Well we have already changed Elena's internal passport and will change her International when it is due to be renewed

Then we wont get the name not the same problem :)

It is easy and for the right money in Russia can be done quick and save loads of grief  :biggrin:
Today is only one day in a life of happiness

Mark

Offline Chris

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14206
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • CAD Drawing and Surveying for Office and on Site - Point - Shoot - Drawn - Instant Floor Plans
  • Spouses Country: Chernivtsi, Ukraine
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Usage of Russian and UK Passports at Different Borders
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2009, 01:09:08 AM »
We recently put in wifey's application for Naturalisation. She should get it early next year - all well and good.

Her forthcoming UK passport will be in her married surname. Her Russian passport is in her maiden name. That is how we want it to stay.

So we have read everywhere that its very easy: You travel to Russia using your Russian passport, and you come back using your UK passport.

However, wifey sees an issue with this. Leaving the UK, she can show a Russian passport to demonstrate right of entry to Russia. No problem (differing surname can be explained - we are logical here). However, leaving Russia, bound for the UK, because she was not stamped into Russia on her UK passport and has no visa, and will not have a current UK visa in her Russian passport (because it is in her old one), she is worried.

If she shows both, she feels the difference in surname between the two passports will create problems (because one must register marriage in Russia and she never did because we married in England). She doesn't want the hassle of having to change her internal passport, propiskas etc. It is simpler she stays maiden name in Russia.

Options include: Getting a Russian visa in her UK passport - ludicrous as she is a RU citizen anyway. Paying the Home Office even more money to duplicate her ILR in her new Russian passport (and assume they wont notice she was never stamped out of the UK). Show her old Russian passport with ILR in to demonstrate right of entry - she is wary of doing that even though she read you can.

She thinks making it complicated leaving Russia with multiple travel documents in various names will just leave her open to delays, bribes and general hassle.

Does anyone here have a wife who maintained her Russian surname in her Russian passport and her married name in her UK (or US) passport? How is this best approached?

The simplest solution is of course the easiest, don't change her surname. Why is it necessary?  If she doesn't change her surname the same name will appear in both passports.



OR change her name to yours in all passports like we did just after we got married, its no big deal really, if you know the right people it can be pushed through very quickly, if you don't it takes a little longer  :-X   :)

Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15865
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Usage of Russian and UK Passports at Different Borders
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2009, 01:57:01 AM »
Changing an internal passport takes time. Then one must change property documents etc to reflect the new name. More time and money.

There are numerous advantages to having the passports in differing names.
please tell me where I'm being / have been 'dishonest'? 
Yes, he said that.........

Offline Yoshik

  • Member
  • Posts: 146
  • Gender: Male
  • My darling wife a I.
Re: Usage of Russian and UK Passports at Different Borders
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2009, 02:33:49 AM »
All I can say is that I think the changing of names difficulty is being overplayed.

Within 8 days of being married my wife's internal passport was renewed in her married name, and her external within another 7 days. As the Russian translation of her new double barreled surname bears no relation to the correct spelling, the passport issuing authority took a copy of my passport and hand wrote the correct translation into the passport with an official stamp.

All of this was done with no backhanders.

The question of taxation, medical, property etc. was all handled by a notary and cost $300, and was comleted in 10 working days.

I am truly believe that people overstate the difficulties.

To clarify all of these transactions took place in SpB.

Offline AnfieldRiot

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 677
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Engaged
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: Usage of Russian and UK Passports at Different Borders
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2009, 02:44:18 AM »


  While I may not have the exact situation to speak from I come close to your overall situation.  I usually head across the ocean at least twice a year and I frequently switch up my passports on entry and exit, mostly because I enjoy trying to fill the pack back pages with a new stamp.

   I have four passports to use and I honestly can't remember handing the same one in on a trip, I've been questioned on two occassions with one being serious but it was for matters outside of switching passports. Only once have I ever been asked to show the passport I used on entry and it was no problems once they looked it over.  I'd tell the wife to keep the passport that isn't being used on entry/exit in her back pocket and simply produce when/if asked.

   If anyone is tough, it's the English, especially Gatwick, aside from there it's been pretty smooth sailing. Most agents want to see what gives you the right to enter their country... even in Minsk they didn't bother me much. I honestly wouldn't worry about your current situation too much, seems like you're properly covered.

Offline TrevorM

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 618
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
Re: Usage of Russian and UK Passports at Different Borders
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2009, 03:11:44 AM »
Manny I raised the same question is this thread:-

http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=3676.15

I still do not understand how, if the return ticket from Russia is booked in your wife's maiden name, she can show her new British passport (in her new married name) to the airline check-in desk in Russia without there being a lot of awkward questions. All airlines flying to the UK have to check that the passenger is allowed entry into the UK, either by visa or citizenship, or they face a big fine.

It is possible but unlikely that she will get a Russian visa in her UK passport. Probably the Russian Embassy won't recognise her as a UK citizen, "Once a Russian always a Russian". I do know someone who's wife tried this, was refused at the Russian consulate in Scotland and had her UK passport stamped "Not valid for Russia":-

http://waytorussia.net/TalkLounge/conversation5731.html&highlight=

Offline sparky114

  • Supporting Member
  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4184
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Usage of Russian and UK Passports at Different Borders
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2009, 04:20:56 AM »
Trevor,

It is beyond me why after writing at length above what you do not understand.

Quote
I still do not understand how, if the return ticket from Russia is booked in your wife's maiden name, she can show her new British passport (in her new married name) to the airline check-in desk in Russia without there being a lot of awkward questions. All airlines flying to the UK have to check that the passenger is allowed entry into the UK, either by visa or citizenship, or they face a big fine.

YOU DO NOT USE YOUR UK PASSPORT TO LEAVE RUSSIA YOU USE THE RUSSIAN ONE WITH THE ILR VISA IN IT  :


then when your feet are on the ground firmly in the UK can you use it to go through the EU UK gate they do not at the moment log and tie up who goes in to goes out  :biggrin:


What people forget that although your wife now has a UK passport she still needs the ILR Visa to confirm that she has indefinite leave to remain.

A UK passport does not replace or superceed ILR you can live the rest of your days here without having a UK passport it is a bolt on extra  ;D

So do not lose it and use it for travel to her home country it is perfectly legal

An d if you follow the UKBA guidelines when your passport is renewed you should get your ILR transfered but i do not know of many that do

Ohhhh yes one thing to get off my chest before i get down off my box is you will never stop paying :o any thought of this is a misconception you will every 5 years need to renew her International passport (available to be done in the UK) and then at various points through your Wifes life her internal will have to be renewed at 20 / 45  :D

ok off for a coffee
Today is only one day in a life of happiness

Mark

Offline TrevorM

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 618
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
Re: Usage of Russian and UK Passports at Different Borders
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2009, 04:43:00 AM »
Trevor,

It is beyond me why after writing at length above what you do not understand.

YOU DO NOT USE YOUR UK PASSPORT TO LEAVE RUSSIA YOU USE THE RUSSIAN ONE WITH THE ILR VISA IN IT  :

That is fine providing you are prepared to pay to have the ILR visa transferred to any new Russian passport once her existing one has expired, as will happen to my wife in 2011. If the visa is not transferred to a new passport, I somehow doubt that the airline will accept an expired passport with the ILR visa.

The simple method to get around the whole problem is to book the trip as two singles, into Russia in her maiden name (Russian passport) and back to the UK in her married name (UK passport). That sorts out the airline. UK passport control sees the UK passport both out and in and Russian passport control sees the Russian passport both in and out.



Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15865
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Usage of Russian and UK Passports at Different Borders
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2009, 07:54:03 AM »
Sparky and I thrashed this out on the phone earlier today. I think I have my head around it now.

For travel to Russia, disregard the UK passport for all intents and purposes is the answer.

Our wives will have both a UK passport and a Russian passport with ILR in it. Either/both allow entry to the UK.

  • Book flights in the name on Russian passport
  • Leave UK on Russian passport (as that is the only one that allows entry to Russia)
  • Enter Russia on Russian passport.
  • When leaving Russia, this is also done on the Russian passport. The requirement to demonstrate right of entry to the destination (UK) is done using the ILR visa* not the UK passport.
  • Once you have entered the UK, you can either use the Russian passport with ILR and fill in the usual landing card or whip out your shiny UK passport and drift through with the locals. (Border guards do not know what name you flew in.)

From what I have read, an ILR is valid if presented in an expired passport in conjunction with a current passport (that hasnt got ILR in it). ILR is a lifetime visa and Russian passports only last 5 years, so this kinda makes sense.

That said, a cunning Russian border guard would just love to make a big deal out of this IMO. The answer to that is pay the Home Office another £150 to duplicate the ILR in her current Russian passport.

please tell me where I'm being / have been 'dishonest'? 
Yes, he said that.........

Offline sparky114

  • Supporting Member
  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4184
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Usage of Russian and UK Passports at Different Borders
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2009, 08:19:46 AM »
Manny think we should make this a sticky?

Just a few bits to remove but worthwhile UK Visa life after Thread.

As i forget how many times i have seen this come up

Might also be useful if you could write a tool kit for ILR :biggrin:
Today is only one day in a life of happiness

Mark