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Author Topic: Starting over  (Read 5097 times)

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Offline workedforme

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2009, 07:26:22 PM »
Then I read Manny's book where he advised against going to Ukraine. I see his point. Ukraine has zillion of women wanting to leave, and another gazillion of WM chasing them.

I'm surprised you say that Tallman. I have never met any lady in Ukraine who had the slightest desire to leave her country (expect if they met Mr Right). It's true that a lot of the hot agency ladies have many WM 'chasing' them but beyond Kiev, Odessa, Kharkov & Nikolaev you dont see too many WM walking the walk.

:D Read my post above!

I will add when I was registered with global ladies probably 90% of the letters I received were from ladies in Ukraine!

Offline Eduard

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2009, 07:54:54 PM »
I started like every other AM does, in Ukraine. Made three trips there and had fairly close relationships with two UW.
Then I read Manny's book where he advised against going to Ukraine. I see his point. Ukraine has zillion of women wanting to leave, and another gazillion of WM chasing them.

I started over in Russia, completely different country, different attitudes. Stiff visa requirements for Americans leave only the most diligent to pursue.

I have come to the conclusion that anyone who looks for a wife in Ukraine does so at his own peril, one of the perils being that the women are shopping for ever better offers. It is no sweat for the UW, she gets the trips, vacations etc. and moves on. This has absolutely nothing to do with any sensitivity. Only someone incredibly naive would believe that.
The WM gets some action, so you can say it is an even exchange.
The situation would be the same in the Baltics; I have heard that there are hordes of Englishmen going to Latvia for some action. There are agencies who are willing to help, of course for a price.

I wish I knew then what I know now, at least I would have saved myself three trips, precious vacation time and over ten grands.
Tallman, I completely agree with you in regard to the situation in Ukraine. I've been saying this since I joined this board by the way.
The only thing I have to ask you is why are you saying that a visa to Russia is a challenge? It's been as easy as filling out an application and sending it in with your passport and the fee. We never had any problems getting it in a timely manner. Was your experience different?

Offline RG

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2009, 07:59:02 PM »
Bill,

Sorry to hear this, but here's hoping a happier future lies ahead. :)


Offline Eduard

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2009, 08:02:51 PM »
This is just an announcement.

It didn't work out between me and Miss Dnepro. I have tickets to Kiev but
probably won't be going, I very possibly will go somewhere else instead.

I am not going to explain all any of the details it is between her and me.

I don't want a pity party,

I feel better already. I am moving on

Udachi !


Bill
Beeel, very sorry to hear that. You are a good guy and I know you will find a good lady. And remember: "It's always darkest before dawn". Just don't jump back to searching again until you feel like you are over this relationship and your heart is healed. Then start fresh and if you need to talk, I'm here for you, bud.
Ed

Offline Donhollio

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2009, 11:27:56 PM »
  :offtopic:


 ohh boy Tallman !   :chuckle:  What kind of a search have you been doing in Ukraine ? :chuckle:  

  I get a kick out of this overfished market mantra.  Tell me is it any different then dating a hot chick locally ?  Not really, you only had to drive further to meet her. The only thing that screws this up is when the western misfit/ social loser tosses his wallet at her to cover his own inadequacy's.   So your not the first to date her, doesn't mean you have to be just like the others. If you stand your ground very early on, you may just wind up on her cutting the date short, and if so who cares , you have gotten rid of a girl you don't need.
 SRM's do whatever it takes to keep the girl beside him never wanting to be a man, and tell her no, or express his opinion. So she goes after that wallet like a lion chasing a baby wildebeest ! Can you fault her ?  Yeah somewhat, but you have to remember she is living in poverty, you don't.
 And unless you are as impoverished to the point of not being able to buy imported foods, or have that beef on the table, you really can't blame her for trying to improve herself either financially or emotionally.  The guys an idiot,and shes thinking of herself.
 You can show up, be a man ,tell her no, and you may earn her respect. Cower and your dead!


Second Rate Mutha


 
Quote from:  Vin
I'm surprised you say that Tallman. I have never met any lady in Ukraine who had the slightest desire to leave her country (expect if they met Mr Right). It's true that a lot of the hot agency ladies have many WM 'chasing' them but beyond Kiev, Odessa, Kharkov & Nikolaev you dont see too many WM walking the walk.

 100% in full agreement


Quote from:  Ed
The only thing I have to ask you is why are you saying that a visa to Russia is a challenge? It's been as easy as filling out an application and sending it in with your passport and the fee. We never had any problems getting it in a timely manner. Was your experience different?

 Ed the Ukraine visas were a breeze to get. All one needed was some UA name & address on the one page form, $60 CAD and you mailed it off with a 1 photo and your passport.
 The Russian one takes photo's, registration within 3 days upon arrival (more money)
 Travel voucher sponsorship ( more money), and that all costs more then when UA had the visa requirement. You and anyone else can't tell me a Russian visa does not have its challenges to file for one. :)

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2009, 04:21:02 AM »
I started like every other AM does, in Ukraine. Made three trips there and had fairly close relationships with two UW.
Then I read Manny's book where he advised against going to Ukraine. I see his point. Ukraine has zillion of women wanting to leave, and another gazillion of WM chasing them.
Thats true, but same goes for Russia. I saw more Loosers on the plane to Petersburg than on the plane to Simferopol. Kiev however, was again busy with them fat-too-old-suckers.. Seems those loosers stick more to the big cities and popular places than to some Dumpsk (be it ukraine or russia).

Quote
I started over in Russia, completely different country, different attitudes. Stiff visa requirements for Americans leave only the most diligent to pursue.
I have to disagree. Just book a hotel and ask them to arrange your visa once you check-in. No pain at all. And if they think your date is "working" so to speak, then you should take the hint and bail out. I never had ANY problems with my dates in hotels.

Quote
I have come to the conclusion that anyone who looks for a wife in Ukraine does so at his own peril, one of the perils being that the women are shopping for ever better offers. It is no sweat for the UW, she gets the trips, vacations etc. and moves on. This has absolutely nothing to do with any sensitivity. Only someone incredibly naive would believe that.
Congratulations you just insulted half of the married board here. I know there are numerous of happy couples here with an Ukrainian woman.

Quote
I wish I knew then what I know now, at least I would have saved myself three trips, precious vacation time and over ten grands.
Seems your problems are not related to any country, but you are either betting out of your league, or you are simply attracted to the wrong type of women.
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline Eduard

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2009, 04:49:30 AM »
Don, I really don't find the visa thing challenging. I don't even deal with a consulate here. I just send the app, the photo and the fee to my travel agency and they take care of all that for a few extra bucks. They also send me the vouchers back with the visa. And when in Russia, yes we have to register but it can now be done at a post office, really not that of a big deal. There are much harder things than this in this whole venture.
As I stated before, there are some wonderful women in Ukraine, but relatively they are much harder to find than in Russia in my experience.
Surely if one has the time and enough resources to spend enough time in Ukraine it's doable, but GENERALLY Tallman's description of the situation is pretty similar to my own experience.

Offline Boris

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2009, 05:10:19 AM »
Looking back, if I had found Miss Right at the first attempt then in a macabre sort of way I would somehow have felt cheated. The travel, the excitement, the apprehensions, the disappointments …. all part of life’s rich tapestry as they say who ever ‘they’ may be. They also say everything happens for a reason but I’m not so sure where they get their knowledge from.

Good luck Billy! tiphat


I agree, Vinny. Even though my other relationships in the FSU didn't end the way I wanted to the experience was invaluable. I enjoyed every minute of it.

Bill, I hope things work out for you. I have been in your position a couple of times now. I know exactly how you feel. You are a man of strong character. I am sure you will bounce back.

Barry from Kherson.

Offline Tallman

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2009, 05:43:05 AM »
I described my experiences, take it for whatever it is worth. I learnt my lessons after wasting upwards of 10K. Had I read Manny's book before that and followed his advice, I would have saved it by bypassing Ukraine. In the scheme of things 10K may not be a lot of money, but for me it is, and perhaps more important is the wasted precious vacation time.

Eduard, Russian visa is not very difficult, it just adds another layer to the costs and efforts, which may be a good thing, since it brings down the WM going there. I will also state that it is my impression that in general, the Ukrainians are more friendly than Russians towards Americans.

I met with seven women in Ekaterinburg, none had ever met a Western suitor before. None asked for " taxi fare"; none asked for any " gifts" or any trips to whereever. Except the one we had mutual connection, none would even accept a dinner invitation. Those who have been to Ukraine know the routine the UW have mastered in fleecing the WM.
 
The RW and UW are completely different, leaving Russia was not a priority for any RW that I met with. It did not appear to me that I was a dollar pit to RW, at least not short term.
From what I can gather, BBD( bigger, better deal) is the mantra of UW, and that does not stop after they come here. Again that is my impression and I apologize to those who have UW as their wives.

As I stated, that I have known two UW well, and currenty involved with a RW, so I am not someone without experience.

Offline Chris

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2009, 08:08:40 AM »
I described my experiences, take it for whatever it is worth. I learnt my lessons after wasting upwards of 10K. Had I read Manny's book before that and followed his advice, I would have saved it by bypassing Ukraine.

Then you obviously went to the wrong places, probably the cities most other Western men go too and followed the sheep mentality and missed out on hundreds/thousands of great women.

Quote from: Tallman
In the scheme of things 10K may not be a lot of money, but for me it is, and perhaps more important is the wasted precious vacation time.

Put it down to experience, it will serve you well whether that be in Ukraine or Russia.

Quote from: Tallman
I met with seven women in Ekaterinburg, none had ever met a Western suitor before. None asked for " taxi fare"; none asked for any " gifts" or any trips to whereever. Except the one we had mutual connection, none would even accept a dinner invitation. Those who have been to Ukraine know the routine the UW have mastered in fleecing the WM.


A massive over generalisation,  only if you meet the wrong ones, I've been many times to both countries, and see little if any difference in women between the too.

Quote from: Tallman
The RW and UW are completely different,

Not in my experience

Quote from: Tallman
leaving Russia was not a priority for any RW that I met with. It did not appear to me that I was a dollar pit to RW, at least not short term.
From what I can gather, BBD( bigger, better deal) is the mantra of UW, and that does not stop after they come here. Again that is my impression and I apologize to those who have UW as their wives.

As I stated, that I have known two UW well, and currently involved with a RW, so I am not someone without experience.

Again a massive over generalisation, you obviously met some bad apples, there are bad apples everywhere and not just in Russia and Ukraine. Meeting only two women and basing the character of the whole Ukrainian female population on that is pretty feeble IMHO


Offline Tallman

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2009, 08:33:17 AM »
Chris, to clarify, I met with well over a dozen UW; there are two UW I had a relationship with, and we were almost ready to start the immigration process in both cases. I can empathize with OP here. I don't know all his circumstances but I would assume not much different than mine.
In one case we met again in Kemer, Turkey, for one week, at my expense of course, she was good to go; the only problem is that she was telling the same to two other WM, as I found out.

Why Russian women are different? For one thing they don't have such an opportunity. As I stated, there are no WM in Ekaterinburg.

The OP has chosen not to disclose the details, the trauma is more than money, it is being taken for a ride.

Furthermore, I get my women from Elena's Model and Russian Euro websites; where the women specifically interested in WM post. It is my impression that UW get most of the action, and RW not much. The reason? Visa, ease of travel, general friendliness of Ukrainians, and of course the economic advantage WM have in Ukraine.

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2009, 08:47:45 AM »
In one case we met again in Kemer, Turkey, for one week, at my expense of course, she was good to go; the only problem is that she was telling the same to two other WM, as I found out.

Interesting point.

I know of a few men who have reported the same outcome.  Seems that it's not uncommon for some FSU women to pursue late-stage courtship/relationships with multiple western men postponing a final decision on who to marry as long as possible. 

I want to believe that the lady in this situation is simply torn with indecision and needs the extra time to decide which man/situation is best for her.  However the realist in me understand that such a tactic is is really nothing more than a "pro-dater" who is selfish and totally self-consumed. 

One situation I know of is where a friend of mine apparently was the "back-up-plan" for a RW.  She kept hosting him during several visits to her home city; even having sex with him.   However she kept putting him off about completing the K-1 paperwork until one day she informing him that she'd decided to marry someone else; who she was courting at the same time as my friend and who made a bit more money than my friend did. 

In hindsight Tallman, you were fortunate she didn't choose you.  Wonder if the guy she did pick knows about the other suitors? 

 
"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" - Katharine Hepburn

Offline Vinnvinny

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2009, 09:47:21 AM »
Looking back, if I had found Miss Right at the first attempt then in a macabre sort of way I would somehow have felt cheated. The travel, the excitement, the apprehensions, the disappointments …. all part of life’s rich tapestry as they say who ever ‘they’ may be. They also say everything happens for a reason but I’m not so sure where they get their knowledge from.

Good luck Billy! tiphat


I agree, Vinny. Even though my other relationships in the FSU didn't end the way I wanted to the experience was invaluable. I enjoyed every minute of it.

Bill, I hope things work out for you. I have been in your position a couple of times now. I know exactly how you feel. You are a man of strong character. I am sure you will bounce back.

Barry from Kherson.

How do you find Kherson Barry? Personally I found the place quite depressing even before the crisis that seemed to have affected many people there with job losses etc. Also, I found it amazing that during the 10 or 12 times I went there I never once saw or met any WM. Has that been your experience?

Offline Donhollio

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2009, 10:30:07 AM »
  Tallman could you give us the cities you met these girls in ?  From what I'm reading you seem to attract only the pro daters.  I have met enough UW and to say they all have their hands out looking for cash and trips is not true. I know it's been your experience,but I have had a handful of  girls who refused to take a taxi back home after the sun had set.
 Even mini bus fare was refused by some.

 I'd say you aren't picking up on the girls vibe early enough. Or maybe you are moving way to fast. ( 2 K-1 apps)  Had you spent many weeks with these girls before wanting to fill out the K-1 ?  I somewhat doubt it,as she was dating 2 others without you knowing it.
 

Offline Chris

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2009, 10:36:38 AM »
Quote from: Tallman
As I stated, there are no WM in Ekaterinburg.

I don't agree with this either, there are at least 4 or 5 agencies probably more in that city or that are affiliated to that city, that means there must also be at least some Western men there at on time or another  :)

Offline Tallman

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2009, 10:38:22 AM »
To clarify, I did not actually file the K-1; though we got close to it.
One from Kiev, the other from Lviv, I met her in Kiev.
This is a behaviour of opportunity; you can argue that RW will act the same way if they had the opportunity; they just don't get the action UW get, so they don't have the opportunity.

Offline Chris

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2009, 10:39:08 AM »
Quote from: Donholio
I'd say you aren't picking up on the girls vibe early enough. Or maybe you are moving way to fast. ( 2 K-1 apps)  Had you spent many weeks with these girls before wanting to fill out the K-1 ?  I somewhat doubt it,as she was dating 2 others without you knowing it.

There is more to this Don, if someone had got to the point where they were applying for marriage Visas etc and didn't know there were other men in the frame, then the two were not ready to get married IMHO

Offline Tallman

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2009, 10:39:57 AM »
Chris, care to name the agencies in Ekaterinburg? When I was looking I tried to find one, I could not.

Offline Chris

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2009, 10:53:36 AM »
Chris, care to name the agencies in Ekaterinburg? When I was looking I tried to find one, I could not.

I can, but only to show there are some that are based in that city or have affiliates there, I want to point out that I have never used any of these (apart from Elenas) and cannot verify how good or bad any of them are, do your own DD on them:-


Well the first and easiest is one you already use Elena's Models, did you know Elena Petrova is from Ekaterinburg  :-X
Elenas Models
Ryerose International
Candy Brides
A Pretty Women
Scanna
City of Brides
Heavenly Hearts

There are plenty more if you do some searching.

Offline Tallman

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2009, 12:02:20 PM »
Chris none of the agencies you mentioned are located in Ekaterinburg; these are mega websites who have ladies everywhere in Ukraine, Russia and many other countries including United States.

I looked at every one of the wbsites you mentioned. My seven contacts came from Elena's Models and Russian Euro  probably best of the bunch

There is not one agency located in Ekaterinburg, I know if for a fact because I  looked. Kiev has at least twenty agenices, located in or near Independance Square. No appointment necessary. They show you photos, and off you go. The only result is that you lose weight, from getting your wallet lighter. Though that was not the method I used, but I did visit one of them.
I sticked to EM and Russian Euro even in Ukraine.

Offline anjutka

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2009, 12:28:13 PM »

 
 
 
 
A massive over generalisation,  .........
 
 
 
 
Again a massive over generalisation.......

 


well...does not massive generalisation based any way on something what come up from reality?)))))))))

example....generalisation- all Russian men like drink vodka)))))) :)...and of course when we go deeper ,we find out that not at really everyone drink and like it))),....but when it comes to some statistic and some %  etc etc etc...,then -yes.....Russian men do drink vodka and like it;-))) :) :popcorn:....
1 Life is not rehearsal... 2 sorry for my english;-)) 3 Thinking only always positive way=be healthy and happy))))) 4yes, and I am 41 yo ;-))))))))))))) 5 In life there are no rules!!! 6 but he should not be older 45 yo )))) 7...? ;-)

Offline Chris

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2009, 01:21:28 PM »
Chris none of the agencies you mentioned are located in Ekaterinburg; these are mega websites who have ladies everywhere in Ukraine, Russia and many other countries including United States.

I looked at every one of the wbsites you mentioned. My seven contacts came from Elena's Models and Russian Euro  probably best of the bunch

There is not one agency located in Ekaterinburg, I know if for a fact because I  looked. Kiev has at least twenty agenices, located in or near Independance Square. No appointment necessary. They show you photos, and off you go. The only result is that you lose weight, from getting your wallet lighter. Though that was not the method I used, but I did visit one of them.
I sticked to EM and Russian Euro even in Ukraine.

Tallman

Here is one of them

Candy-Brides

Dating club Veronica" - Sverdlovsk Regional Public Organization.

Director: Mitkina Tatyana Vitalievna;
Office address:
per.Krasny 10-4 Ekaterinburg, Russian Federation, 620027
Tel.: +7-3432-70-33-71

Sorry don't have time ot check anymore at the moment.

Offline Tallman

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2009, 02:42:59 PM »
Thanks Chris; for me personally I have found what I was looking for. I am meeting her again in Punta Cana next month, and if everything works out fine, she would be visiting me in January, provided she gets the visa. I hope they give her the visa for six months so she can stay the whole time. Though I am concerned that she may get bored with nothing to do for six months; she is upbeat at the prospect and she would " rest ". She is a doctor, a gynecologist. She can't work on tourist visa. The plan is to file the K-1 while she is here, she would return per her tourist visa and pick up the K-1 in Moscow.

She has never asked a single question about my finances; other than what I do( I own a business, and live comfortably) This is not the same as the UW who grilled me on my financial conditions from early on.

I have tried to warn her that her first months up to at least one year would be difficult, she does not seem to be too much worried.

We are both enamoured with each other, and always connected even though far apart physically. It happened almost immediately for both of us when we first met. Like they say either it happens from the get go, or does not happen at all.

My search has ended, for now. For the record this was my first and only trip to Russia.
I have known both UW and RW, in my experience they may be next to each other and even look similar, they are world's apart.
In all fairness, I never looked into Ukrainian hinterland like I did in Russia, may be I would have found the same in Ukraine if I went outside the beaten path.

Offline Vinnvinny

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2009, 03:02:37 PM »
Kiev has at least twenty agenices, located in or near Independance Square. No appointment necessary. They show you photos, and off you go. The only result is that you lose weight, from getting your wallet lighter.

I think that statement applies to certain types of dating in any international capital city.

Good luck and all the best for the future.  :)

Offline Rasputin

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Re: Starting over
« Reply #49 on: November 15, 2009, 06:48:48 PM »
Chris, care to name the agencies in Ekaterinburg? When I was looking I tried to find one, I could not.

You can meet women without agencies. Simply sign up and create a profile on singles.ru and do a search for women living in Ekaterinburg.
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