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Author Topic: Chernobyl - Чернобыль - При́пять - Pripyat  (Read 15412 times)

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Offline mirror

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Chernobyl - Чернобыль - При́пять - Pripyat
« on: August 29, 2009, 08:02:56 AM »
Maybe I missed a thread about Chernobyl (at При́пять/Pripyat) but I think it is important to tell to newbies about it again.

I hope you know that Kiev was in a zone of radiating defeat.



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Offline TwoBitBandit

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Re: Chernobil (Чернобыль).
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2009, 11:19:04 AM »
This is a great site from a woman who likes to ride her motorcycle through the Chernobyl zone and take pictures:

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/chapter1.html

Online Herrie

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Re: Chernobil (Чернобыль).
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2009, 11:58:30 AM »
This is a great site from a woman who likes to ride her motorcycle through the Chernobyl zone and take pictures:

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/chapter1.html
Yes that site is very interesting!


Offline alenika

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Re: Chernobil (Чернобыль).
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2009, 12:20:14 PM »
Yes, very interesting. Thanks TwoBit.
I close eyes to see better

Offline 2tallbill

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Re: Chernobil (Чернобыль).
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2009, 12:22:23 PM »
This is a great site from a woman who likes to ride her motorcycle through the Chernobyl zone and take pictures:

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/chapter1.html

Good info two bit

I like the way she writes and describes things example:

"All of this happy horseshit was for the May 1st Labor Day parade."

FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Offline Manny

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Re: Chernobil (Чернобыль).
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2009, 02:15:44 PM »
I read that site a couple of months ago.

I have driven nearby that area, and it is quite chilling even today. Wiki says this:

Quote
The Chernobyl Disaster was a nuclear reactor accident at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant in Ukraine, then part of the Soviet Union. It is considered to be the worst nuclear power plant disaster in history and the only level 7 instance on the International Nuclear Event Scale. It resulted in a severe release of radioactivity following a massive power excursion which destroyed the reactor. Two people died in the initial steam explosion, but most deaths from the accident were attributed to radiation.

On 26 April 1986 01:23:45 a.m. (UTC+3) reactor number four at the Chernobyl plant, near Pripyat in the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, exploded. Further explosions and the resulting fire sent a plume of highly radioactive fallout into the atmosphere and over an extensive geographical area. Four hundred times more fallout was released than had been by the atomic bombing of Hiroshima.

The plume drifted over extensive parts of the western Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, Western Europe,and Northern Europe, with light nuclear rain falling as far as Ireland. Large areas in Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia were badly contaminated, resulting in the evacuation and resettlement of over 336,000 people. According to official post-Soviet data,[3] about 60% of the radioactive fallout landed in Belarus.
please tell me where I'm being / have been 'dishonest'? 
Yes, he said that.........

Offline skiingandrunning

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Re: Chernobil (Чернобыль).
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2009, 04:03:07 PM »
OK, I have a man who works for me who is a big game addict and he mentioned the following game "STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl" and he said that it's very accurate in regards to what you'll see in the exclusion zone based on what he's seen from the actual imagery. 

Also, there is a very good documentary on this: 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e5f_1201032645

I think there is another one as well, but I do not have the link for it.


Offline skiingandrunning

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Re: Chernobil (Чернобыль).
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2009, 05:21:23 PM »
The post explosion is called "Battle for Chenobyl" and it's a little more riveting.  Unfortunately, these are only clips from them.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5ab_1178102816

Offline Boris

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Re: Chernobil (Чернобыль).
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2009, 07:01:24 PM »
My driver for my first trip to Kharkov was a physics student when the disaster hit. He was rousted out at 3AM from his university to work at the site. Now he has a special Chernobyl veteran parking pass that allowed him to park almost anywhere. Some fringe benefit....

Offline mirror

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Re: Chernobil (Чернобыль).
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2009, 08:08:41 PM »
Infection zone radioactive caesium-137.
You can see there Belarus (Homel,Mogilev,Bryansk) also.
Have a look where does your girl live.
I hope everybody knows that a radiation is the biggest factor for a genetic anomalies.

Offline TwoBitBandit

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Re: Chernobil (Чернобыль).
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2009, 01:12:27 AM »
Infection zone radioactive caesium-137.
You can see there Belarus (Homel,Mogilev,Bryansk) also.
Have a look where does your girl live.
I hope everybody knows that a radiation is the biggest factor for a genetic anomalies.

I always make sure I pay careful attention to FSU girls the first time I'm alone with them in the dark if I think she may have ever lived near the Chernobyl zone.  If they glow in the dark, that's it: the relationship is over.  I don't date radioactive girls!

Offline mirror

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Re: Chernobil (Чернобыль).
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2009, 03:40:31 AM »
Good for you.

It is interesting that there some more anomaly natural zones.If you see trees like that then you ,maybe,know that it is anomaly zone.



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Offline Boris

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Online Markje

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Re: Chernobil (Чернобыль).
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2009, 03:24:17 PM »
Infection zone radioactive caesium-137.
You can see there Belarus (Homel,Mogilev,Bryansk) also.
Have a look where does your girl live.
I hope everybody knows that a radiation is the biggest factor for a genetic anomalies.

The winds blew most of the Radioactive cloud towards western Europe. In Netherlands it was forbidden to grow spinach due to the high iron content up until 2002!!!
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Offline skiingandrunning

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Re: Chernobyl - Чернобыль
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2009, 05:29:17 PM »
Quote
nfection zone radioactive caesium-137.  You can see there Belarus (Homel,Mogilev,Bryansk) also.
Have a look where does your girl live..

True, and I remember a lady I went to see a couple of times (she lived in Minsk in 1986 and now living in Moscow) telling me a story of how everyone in Minsk was dusting off shoot falling from the air that came from the reactor accident.  But, I'll be honest, as it came to her health I was more concerned about the fact that she was a heavy smoker for most of her life. 

Mirror, I'll also say that it's not just the fallout zone, but other areas you need to be concerned with as I visited Karabash which has an active population living in a valley where nothing grows and the drinking water for the city of Chelyabinsk is fed from a stream that flows through that city (tributary of the Mias River).  Even Perm (I think that is your city)  has problems with Hydrogenic Heavy Metals Pollution in the soils.  And lastly, I have been told by a Russian that American reliance on genetically modified food will cause huge portions of the population to become sterile in a few generations (my response to her was, "with the levels of pollution in Russia, do you not think the food supply is becoming mutated without science").  Anyways, I think most people going to the former FSU realize that the environment is not always pristine, but I do not think it should keep anyone from deciding to visit or meet someone from there as the human race has used the world as a trash can for a long time and it's not just a Russian problem (e.g. I was in Hong Kong last in 2006 and I was amazed at how bad the smog (from the industrial plants in China) had become since my first visit in 1995). 


Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Chernobyl - Чернобыль
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2009, 09:59:56 PM »
The small closed city of Chernobyl sits next to При́пять (Pripyat), a city formerly of about 50,000 built to house power plant and military families. Chernobyl was also home to a large military radar station for the Soviet Union.


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Nuclear power stations were presented as being an achievement of Soviet engineering, where nuclear power was harnessed for peaceful projects. The slogan мирный атом (peaceful atom) was popular during those times.

Initially the plant was intended to be built only 25 km from Kiev, but the Ukrainian Academy of Sciences, among other bodies, expressed concern about the station being too close to the city, and so the station, together with Prypiat, were built in their current location — about 100 km from Kiev. After the disaster was reluctantly admitted by the Soviets, the Soviets claimed that the city of Pripyat had been evacuated in two days.

Well not really in two days. It was five days after the accident before local residents were evacuated. But one must count the five days of inaction. If we're willing to accept the truth that residents were evacuated on days 6 and 7, then I guess one could claim that it only took 2 days for the evacuation.

Truth: only after radiation levels set off alarms at the Forsmark Nuclear Power Plant in Sweden did the Soviet Union admit that an accident had occurred, but authorities attempted to conceal the scale of the disaster. To evacuate the city of Pripyat, the following warning message was reported on local radio: "An accident has occurred at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant. One of the atomic reactors has been damaged. Aid will be given to those affected and a committee of government inquiry has been set up."

The government committee formed to investigate the accident, led by Valeri Legasov, arrived at Chernobyl in the evening of 26 April. By that time two people were dead and 52 were in hospital. Nobody had yet been evacuated.


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Evac vehicles left because of radiation.


The local firemen and power plant crew who took the lead in fighting the fire were sick within hours. Two men died of smoke inhalation at the scene. The others were first treated by the medical officer of the plant, then the only Pripyat ambulance was called to the station. After the examination the staff members were sent to the city hospital where the first "liquidator" died. The Soviets gave the name "liquidators" to those who responded and worked at the disaster site.


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The majority of the firefighters were soon sent to a special clinic in Moscow via Kiev. Most of them died in the month of May and are buried in Moscow (Mitino cemetery). The first casualty died at Pripyat hospital and was kept in the hospital morgue for some time after the evacuation.

Several safety zones have been set up, but the main one is now called the "Zone Alienation." There are zones marking the Kilometer Zone, The Exclusion Zone, The Fourth Zone, or simply The Zone around the disaster site.


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The radiation danger zone today in 2009 still includes the northernmost parts of Kyiv and Zhytomyr and adjoins the country's border with Belarus. A separately administered Belarusian zone continues across the border.

Surprisingly people still live in Chernobly! Most of the residents are elderly with no families elsewhere. One Orthodox church remains active with a priest from Kyiv coming each Sunday. The remaining inhabitants reside in houses marked with signs stating that the "Owner of this house lives here". Workers on watch and administrative personnel of the Zone of Alienation are stationed in the city on a long term basis.


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Chernobyl church still functions.

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Chernobyl - Чернобыль
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2009, 10:04:54 PM »
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Jeremy Page from Moscow, The Times (UK)
London, United Kingdom, Saturday, April 22, 2006

20 years on, the first firefighter at the scene says the human cost is
being whitewashed, writes Jeremy Page from Moscow...

It was 1.40am when Viktor Birkun woke to the sound of his doorbell ringing.

He knew that something serious had happened as soon as he opened the door
and saw one of his colleagues from the fire station. But it was only as
they drove out of his home town of Pripyat, Ukraine, that he realised the
scale of what is still considered the worst man-made disaster in history.

Fourteen minutes earlier, at 1.26am on April 26, 1986 -20 years to the day
on Wednesday -Reactor 4 at the Chernobyl nuclear plant had exploded,
releasing 100 times the radiation of the atomic bomb that had exploded over
Hiroshima.

"There was only the light from the fire -black and red flames and lumps of
molten material everywhere," Mr Birkun said.

"The reactor's roof had blown off, throwing asphalt, concrete and graphite
upwards and outwards. Where the graphite landed it turned everything to lava."

As the plant managers and technicians fled or frantically tried to contact
Moscow, the firefighters rushed straight into the inferno. With only a
cotton uniform to protect him, Mr Birkun drove his fire truck over the
reactor's metal roof, now lying on the ground, and up to 15m (50ft) from
Reactor 4.

Using his bare hands he lowered the engine's siphon into the nearest
cooling pool to suck up water for his colleagues as they battled 300 fires
around the complex.

Within seconds he began to feel the effects of the gamma rays that were
bombarding his internal organs.

He started vomiting about every 30 seconds. He grew dizzy and weak. After
two hours he could not stand.

Doctors later gave him a certificate indicating that he had received 260
ber (biological equivalents of roentgen), equivalent to 1,000 years of
background radiation.

But experts estimate that the radiation that he absorbed was even higher,
and enough to cause acute radiation sickness (ARS).

"I'm amazed he survived," Michael Repacholi, the top radiation expert at
the World Health Organisation, said.

"It was a hugely heroic effort, and I suspect anyone who understood how
much radiation was there would never have gone in."

Twenty years on Mr Birkun knows he is lucky to be alive and living in
Moscow with his wife, Nadezhda, and his daughters, Lyudmila and Valentina.

Of the 134 "liquidators" with a diagnosis of ARS, 28 died in 1986,
including at least six firefighters. Mr Birkun, now 56, is proud of the
sacrifice that his team made to reduce the cloud of smoke that spread
radioactive particles across Europe and even as far as Japan.

"These were the people who saved Europe," he said, fingering a
black-and-white photograph of his former colleagues. "If they had not done
what they did, the fire would have spread to Reactors 1, 2 and 3."

But he and many others among the 600,000 liquidators who cleaned up
Chernobyl are infuriated by what they see as official attempts to whitewash
the human cost of the disaster.

Last year the United Nations issued a report saying that the number of
deaths caused by Chernobyl was fewer than 50 -far lower than previous
estimates. The report by the UN's Chernobyl Forum said that the eventual
number of radiation- related deaths among the 600,000 liquidators would be
about 4,000.

In the West the report has restarted a bitter debate over the dangers of
the nuclear industry. Greenpeace, the environmental group, accused the UN
this week of whitewashing the disaster.

It issued its own report, based on statistics from Belarus, predicting that
the number of terminal cancer cases caused directly by Chernobyl would be
93,000.

And it extrapolated from demographic statistics that 200,000 people had
already died of radiation-related illnesses in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus.
Nuclear power is now far less controversial in those countries; Russia is
planning to build 40 reactors by 2030.



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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Chernobyl - Чернобыль
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2009, 10:12:36 PM »
Interview with Mikhail Gorbachev
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BBC NEWS, United Kingdom, Saturday, April 22, 2006

Mikhail Gorbachev had been Soviet leader for only 13 months when the
Chernobyl nuclear accident happened. He describes how the authorities
responded and reflects on the lessons from the disaster.

I received a call at 0500 on 26 April 1986, informing me that a major
accident, followed by a fire, had just occurred in the fourth block of the
Chernobyl nuclear power station, but that the reactor was still intact.

In those early hours, until the evening of 26 April, we had not yet realised
that the reactor had actually exploded and that there had been a huge
discharge of radioactive materials into the atmosphere.

Nobody had any idea that we were facing a major nuclear disaster. Naturally,
we can regret, today, after the fact, that we did not grasp everything more
quickly.

[At the time], I was astounded: how was such a thing possible? Nuclear
scientists had always assured the country's leadership that our nuclear
reactors were completely safe.
                                  
Immediately after the accident, the management of the station gave the order
to flood the reactor with water, because they were not aware that the
reactor had exploded and there was nothing left to extinguish. Finally, the
pool under the reactor and some underground locations were filled up with
water.

Scientists were afraid that if the hot mass of nuclear fuel and graphite
were to rupture the bottom of the reactor's tank and fall into radioactive
water, this would create the conditions for a further nuclear explosion.

We were not panicking... but we urgently needed to pump out this water. This
was completed at the beginning of May. In this way, such an explosion,
however slight its probability, was effectively prevented. There were other
threats that needed to be eliminated with the utmost urgency.

Firstly, there remained the danger that the mass at the heart of the reactor
would rupture its tank and even blast through the foundations of the
building housing the reactor, so coming into contact with the soil and
leading to a major contamination of groundwater.

We also had to prevent the radioactive waste and debris from around the
plant from contaminating the waters of the Dnieper and Desna rivers. This
required operations on a massive scale...

But, of course, our main concern was to evacuate the population from the
most contaminated areas.

On 27 April we performed an exemplary operation: in just three hours the
entire population of Pripyat, located very close to the power station, was
evacuated.

And in the early days of May, we evacuated everybody living within a 30km
radius of the power station, in dozens of localities: a total of 116,000
people.
                                    
Quite simply, in the beginning even the top experts did not realise the
gravity of the situation.

We needed several weeks to obtain precise evaluations and to draw up maps
of the contamination. Certainly, I will not exclude the possibility that
certain functionaries, who were afraid of being accused of not having taken
the correct measures, had a tendency to embellish their reports.

But, for the most part, I believe that I was kept informed in good faith by
my representatives. We did not cancel the May Day parades [in Kiev and
Minsk] because we still did not have information on the full extent of the
disaster.

I confess that we were afraid of panic - you can imagine for yourselves the
consequences of a terrible panic in a town of several million inhabitants. I
admit that it was a grave mistake.

We published the first information on the accident on 28 April, in Pravda,
but to speak to the people, I needed a more substantial and precise
analysis. That is why I waited almost three weeks before speaking on
television.
                                  
Nowadays, experts think that our fears over the possible contamination of
groundwater were exaggerated, and that it was not worth the trouble of
installing a "cushion" [concrete slab] underneath the reactor.

The construction of the sarcophagus, all the measures for aquatic
protection, most of the measures aimed at decontamination - these were good
decisions, even though some of the deactivation did ultimately prove to be
superfluous.

We decontaminated areas which were later evacuated. Nobody knew, for
instance, that Pripyat, that beautiful modern city, would find itself
forever uninhabitable.At first, scientists thought that the population of
Pripyat would be able to return to the city around the end of May or
beginning of June. People left leaving their fridges full of food, without
even unplugging them, since they expected to return quickly.
                                  
The explosion at Chernobyl showed that we are capable of contaminating the
planet for the long term, and of leaving a terrible legacy for future
generations.

Today, mankind faces a challenge so huge that, by comparison, the Cold
War appears like an incongruous vestige from the past.

Chernobyl clearly demonstrated that each disaster is unique and that no
country can be prepared for every eventuality. That is why we must deploy
the maximum amount of effort to prevent disasters. One must not compromise
on nuclear safety. The social, ecological and economic consequences of these
kind of disasters are much too heavy in every sense of the word.



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Mendeleyev note:
The account as related by Mr Gorbachev don't quite match the facts as revealed by reality, especially in the long delay in announcing to the Soviet people what had happened, in warning neighboring countries, and in evacuation times.

There are many things to admire about this former Soviet leader. The actions of the government during the crisis in no manner matches anything close to admiration.

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Chernobyl - Чернобыль
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2009, 10:19:26 PM »
In addition to the deer, wolves and small animals enjoying the area, fish are spawning in the former cooling channels.


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Some fish are really big!



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Old bottled water dispenser.



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Old Kvas kiosk.



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Chernobyl memorial square.



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Tulips in spring.



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Area tourists use for photos.


Offline mirror

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Re: Chernobyl - Чернобыль
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2009, 03:57:54 AM »
skiingandrunning ,

You can't compare Chernobyl with any other Environmental contaminations.In this competition Chernobyl is a number one in a meaning of a danger.

I think we need an expert opinion in this question.Maybe some experts-here?

(I don't live in Perm by the way).

Offline mirror

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Re: Chernobil (Чернобыль).
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2009, 04:07:16 AM »

The winds blew most of the Radioactive cloud towards western Europe. In Netherlands it was forbidden to grow spinach due to the high iron content up until 2002!!!


Because of Chernobyl?

Offline mirror

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Re: Chernobyl - Чернобыль
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2009, 04:09:52 AM »
I wrote several lines that would make a longshoreman
run away blushing but then I deleted them.

Mirror isn't going to change because I write a scathing
post pointing out her various short comings.



What would you like to know more about? Chernobyl? Anomaly zones?

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Re: Chernobil (Чернобыль).
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2009, 08:30:37 AM »

The winds blew most of the Radioactive cloud towards western Europe. In Netherlands it was forbidden to grow spinach due to the high iron content up until 2002!!!


Because of Chernobyl?

Yep, background radiation was upto 20 times higher 2 days after the explosion. Spinach absorbs much iron and therefore caught much more radiation than was safe to consume.
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Offline skiingandrunning

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Re: Chernobyl - Чернобыль
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2009, 09:45:15 AM »
Quote
You can't compare Chernobyl with any other Environmental contaminations
.

This is very true and your comments are valid!  I talked to a doctor about a year ago who worked in Chenigov and her comments supported everything you have said and wanted others to become aware of. 

Still we are altering our world in such ways that we'll be dealing with the consequences well into the future and these much smaller environmental contamination's are spiking cancer rates and other diseases in the affected areas (I think you probably know this much better than myself).   So my comment was not to say you are wrong, more to say that we should not use where a person grew up (e.g. in the area affected by radiation) as a basis of suitability as we can find similar worrisome anomalies all over our world today.

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Re: Chernobyl - Чернобыль
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2009, 07:27:19 PM »
skiingandrunning,

don't say that your lady is from Chernobyl ,pls.You will break my heart.