The World's #1 Russian, Ukrainian & Eastern European Discussion & Information Forum - RUA!

This Is the Premier Discussion Forum on the Net for Information and Discussion about Russia, Ukraine, Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union. Discuss Culture, Politics, Travelling, Language, International Relationships and More. Chat with Travellers, Locals, Residents and Expats. Ask and Answer Questions about Travel, Culture, Relationships, Applying for Visas, Translators, Interpreters, and More. Give Advice, Read Trip Reports, Share Experiences and Make Friends.

Author Topic: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?  (Read 26006 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 2tallbill

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14573
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #75 on: September 05, 2009, 08:39:46 PM »
Bill...i thought you a kind guy))))

I think you are a sweet to say so

mirror represent here opinion which russian people have 8)...may be the way how she put it you foreigners cant except)))) but when we think deep about topic -she just says all kind of stereotypes which exists in Russia among russian......are you all dont see obvious things and ready to blame for such stereotypes one particular person?))) :'(

anjutka, you don't go out of your way to insult Ukrainian Women. Mirror does,


holodomor is sensitive topic which can create a lot missunderstanding...same as great patriotic war II, soviet army in soviet time in baltics,politic of Russia ......etc etc etc....before start to argue, really all -take mirror's advice and study history :nod: that's will help :)

I don't blame Russians (especially Russians who were not born yet) for things the Soviet Government
did. If you check you will see I didn't say anything about Holodomor.

Telling me I can't comment about Mirrors rudeness because I don't know Russian history, is like
saying I can't comment about how to prepare tasty food dish because I am not a farmer. I can't
grow tomatoes to save my life (I wish I could) but I can prepare at least a couple of dozen tasty
dishes with them.

FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Offline Link

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 586
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #76 on: September 05, 2009, 08:43:04 PM »
Mirror is jealous of Ukrainian women. It's as simple as that. She
feels superior to them for reasons that are apparent only to her.
Men tend to go to Ukraine because of easier visa restrictions and
that really grinds her gears. So....


Could you please elaborate why Mirror is jealous? Because you can go to Ukraine without visa and for that reason she missed out on men like you? I don't think it is her loss. Seriously, if you made your decision only on visa regulations, it says a lot about you.

Personally I have more respect for men who were not stopped by some remote places like Barnaul for example, or Vladivostok, if that is where woman happened to live. If you choose to go the road that thousands before you walked, I don't know who is really missing out . All that situation with attracting foreigners to visit Ukraine without visa reminds me after Christmas sale

Quote
And this elite included all former USSR ethnic groups or as they called it during Soviet time "nationalities". Ukrainians were just as involved in the Soviet movement as Russians


I might visit Barnaul one of these days ...............

Offline Wild Orchid

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3682
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #77 on: September 05, 2009, 08:59:01 PM »


anjutka, you don't go out of your way to insult Ukrainian Women. Mirror does,



Can you please quote alleged Mirror's insults in this thread? Or should we just take your word for that?

Where was she talking about UW? She was talking about men and their reaction to certain Ukrainian word, that is all that I've seen


Offline 2tallbill

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14573
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #78 on: September 05, 2009, 09:03:26 PM »

Could you please elaborate why Mirror is jealous?

Because she uses any and all excuses to accuse UW of everything and anything.

Because you can go to Ukraine without visa and for that reason she missed out on men like you? I don't think it is her loss. Seriously, if you made your decision only on visa regulations, it says a lot about you.


WO, Most men simply write letters and never get on a plane, by stating this does it mean that
I do this?

I said that "Men tend to go to Ukraine because of easier visa restrictions" I didn't say that
I did this or that I recommend this. There are a bunch of "Where should I go?" threads. I have
recommended finding a girl then going to wherever she is. If she is in Odessa go to Odessa if
she is in Siberia then go to Siberia (and bring a hat).

Udachi


Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Offline Voyager

  • Meмber
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5212
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #79 on: September 05, 2009, 09:06:32 PM »


anjutka, you don't go out of your way to insult Ukrainian Women. Mirror does,



Can you please quote alleged Mirror's insults in this thread?

Like these?

When I was telling about stereotypes about Ukrainians that they are all traitors (this attitude  came from II World War)

(if to be honest I think this stereotype about Ukr is right  :nod: but it is just my private opinion) .


The fact that UW are prostitutes is very bright known opinion. :evilgrin0002:

Offline 2tallbill

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14573
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #80 on: September 05, 2009, 09:14:13 PM »


anjutka, you don't go out of your way to insult Ukrainian Women. Mirror does,



Can you please quote alleged Mirror's insults in this thread? Or should we just take your word for that?

Where was she talking about UW? She was talking about men and their reaction to certain Ukrainian word, that is all that I've seen

WO is secretly helping me get better at doing quotes  ;D
I might screw it up (making the quotes)

You could take my word on if you wish or you can see this



When I was telling about stereotypes about Ukrainians that they are all traitors (this attitude  came from II World War)
some men here were very aggresive towards me.


I wasn't the only one who thought it was offensive



I big surprise see this theme. You say all Ukrainian mens its traitor? Are you joke?

Thank you for you spit on all Ukrainian mens who fight in Great Patriotic war.

All my fathers of grandparent fight in Soviet armys, only one not fight and work in train. My grandmother tell how she see father first time when he come home with award from army but without any leg. She scared this man her father without any leg and she hide. He very sad because small daughter run away from him.
Grandfather father not come home from war.

They fight in Soviet army, not nazi army maybe you ask this to.

Sorry for bad english
Sorry for angry feeling

You insult to all Ukrainian mens who fight in Soviet army.
You attitude to me is disgust.

FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Offline Wild Orchid

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3682
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #81 on: September 05, 2009, 09:27:20 PM »


Like these?

When I was telling about stereotypes about Ukrainians that they are all traitors (this attitude  came from II World War)


I've read her original post.

Do we chop as we please now? That question goes to you, Bill, as well

Quote
When I was telling about stereotypes about Ukrainians that they are all traitors (this attitude  came from II World War) some men here were very aggresive towards me. Must I be agreesive towards Manny's words about Tatars now?

And I think she has a point as far as debate on Muslims is concerned.


I wouldn't call Ukrainian traitors, they were almost always against Russians and it ended up with Banderovcy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army.

My mother in law claims that she was forcibly evacuated by Germans in 1944. In that year Germans were loosing a battle and I don't think they would be concerned with evacuation of some secondary race. I think they (Ukrainians/Pols) used Germans to run away from advancing Russian army, and they had a reason to run. Many Ukrainians were accused of war crimes, mind you not by Russians. Some Ukrainians were involved in extermination of Jews on Ukrainian territory. Many of them escaped in all corners of the world - Argentina, Australia, USA etc.. Can you blame Russians that we don't have particularly warm feelings towards to our "brothers" that fought in that war against us?

I don't know why we always talk about this. It is always us RW against yous -  partners of UW. I don't think you men have enough knowledge to argue with us. In any case it is very sensitive matter for us. What is it for you - go figure  ::)
 I was a bit shocked, when during recent commemoration of the anniversary of the beginning of WWII Pols accused Russia not Germany that was present there as well of all wrong doings that happened in 1939-1940. What do they want Russia to do now? Compensate them? Who will compensate us for that war? We lost more lives/resources/everything  than anybody else.


You have your own stereotypes against Muslims, Mirror has against Ukrainians. How are you different to her?

Offline Voyager

  • Meмber
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5212
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #82 on: September 05, 2009, 10:28:33 PM »

I've read her original post.

Do we chop as we please now?

I didn't quote the whole post, in the context it made no difference.  She stated that she believes all Ukrainians are traitors.

Quote
When I was telling about stereotypes about Ukrainians that they are all traitors (this attitude  came from II World War) some men here were very aggresive towards me. Must I be agreesive towards Manny's words about Tatars now?

And I think she has a point as far as debate on Muslims is concerned.

WO, I agree with you there, some of the comments about muslims just make me cringe.

I wouldn't call Ukrainian traitors, they were almost always against Russians and it ended up with Banderovcy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army.

I don't know why we always talk about this. It is always us RW against yous -  partners of UW. I don't think you men have enough knowledge to argue with us.

You are not exactly demonstrating your knowledge with that totally misleading statement.

Since you have cited Wiki, lets see what they have to say:

Quote
The number of Anti-Soviet UPA fighters varied. A German Abwehr report from November 1943 estimated that the UPA had 20,000 soldiers; other estimates at that time placed the number at 40,000. By the summer of 1944, estimates of UPA membership varied from 25-30 thousand fighters up to 100,000 or even 200,000 soldiers

 
Quote
In total, the number of ethnic Ukrainians that fought in the ranks of the Soviet Army is estimated from 4.5 million to 7 million. The pro-Soviet partisan guerilla resistance in Ukraine is estimated to number at 47,800 from the start of occupation to 500,000 at its peak in 1944; with about 50 percent of them being ethnic Ukrainians.

Initially, the Germans were even received as liberators by some western Ukrainians, who had only joined the Soviet Union in 1939. However, brutal German rule in the occupied territories eventually turned its supporters against the occupation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine

So the facts {as stated by Wiki} are that for every 1 anti-Soviet partisan, there were between 25 - 200 times as many ethnic Ukrainians fighting in the Soviet Red Army. Many of them were awarded medals. Millions were wounded or died.

So Mirror's statement that she believes "All Ukrainians are traitors" just looks to be at best woefully misinformed, or at worst asinine.

Online msmoby

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8920
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Committed
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #83 on: September 06, 2009, 01:33:39 AM »

Lets talk instead about who rebuilt Ukraine after WWII and changed her from agricultural country of peasants into industrial country. Did Russian people get any credit for that? Silly question, I know  ::)

YES.. it IS a silly question...given the choice most ethnic Ukrainians didn't WANT the Red Army marching back into Kiev (1920 and 1943) to "save" them from independence !

I often hear Russians express surprise at the hatred still felt towards them by most former European satellites - "we saved Europe from Fascism.." is the standard response - but you forgot to go HOME, afterwards!, I say ;)

Most Ukrainains didn't WANT Stalin's failed collective farming methods that resulted in TWO forced famines..one in 1921 and another in 1932..so not JUST Stalin to blame... and certainly NOT only local Ukrainian Communists...!!! WHO inflicted Communism on the Ukrainians?

The country was already screwed up BEFORE the "Great Patriotic War"..Many Ukrainians fought with the Nazis to be rid of Communism...THAT had nothing to do with being anti Russian..

Why does ANY of this "distrust" still apply when many of the acts of communism have been condemned - by most Russians ? ....Because the "games" STILL continue...because Russia has an agenda to destabilise modern Ukraine. It doesn't WANT UA to join NATO or the EU.

WHY did Putin appear with Yankovich on the hustings in the "elections" that brought about the Orange Revolution?! .. It was an example of the extreme "interference" in another nation's affairs..

Let's be honest about it.. Russia would like a sizeable chunks of UA as part of Russia..


I don't know why we always talk about this. It is always us RW against yous -  partners of UW.

No, WO.. my Wife is from Siberia... she has had the opportunity to meet elderly Poles - who fought to remove Germans and were then shelled / shot at by the Red Army.. and Ukrainian folk ( both ethnic Russian and Ukrainians) who feel Ukraine should be independent of Russian influence.



I don't think you men have enough knowledge to argue with us.


They WHY do you say this?..

I was a bit shocked, when during recent commemoration of the anniversary of the beginning of WWII Pols accused Russia not Germany that was present there as well of all wrong doings that happened in 1939-1940.

..and were you "shocked" when Mr Putin ( btw do you remember EVER seeing a Russian PM appearing so much on TV and having such a pivotal role in Russian affairs !?)  told Poles that the Molotov - Ribbentrop pact was immoral ?

http://www.polskieradio.pl/thenews/international/artykul114967_putin_condemns_molotov_ribbentrop_pact.html

Lest you forget, the allies went to war to SAVE Poland from invasion and "we" LOST.. the Soviet Union - Communism - replaced Fascism.... Lvov and a sizeable part of Eastern Poland ended up under Soviet control under this pact and Stalin murdered 20,000 Polish Officers and large numbers of civilians and "tried" to blame the Germans !!

Germany has apologised MANY times for it's role and it would help relations with former Soviet satellites if Russia could have done the same..  Too many Russians ( you ?) STILL think the former Soviet European satellites should be "grateful" for being occupied and oppressed from 1945 to 1989/90 ?!!!

If you were Ukrainian Polish, Hungarian, Latvian, bla, bla, would YOU have been grateful to have the Russian language *imposed*?

Come on, WO. It's time this "silliness" re simplistic over-generalisations and misconceptions based on historical "fibs" - during the times of oppressive regimes  - stopped.

The line as to what is a Ukrainian is very blurred, anyway...

















Offline Halo

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4547
  • Country: 00
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #84 on: September 06, 2009, 02:17:58 AM »
Ukrs (like a nationality) have dark hair and eyes more light than dark...but you can see too many Ukr with dark eyes  because they have dark color in their genes from Turks. 8)

That is a ridiculous assertion.  Most of the "dark hair/dark eyes" comes from the millions of Germans who settled in Ukraine during Catherine II's reign, and thereafter.  Did you ever see Patriarch Alexei?  Those dark eyes came from German, not Turkic blood.  Moreover, Turks did not settle in Ukraine.  Ukrainians (and to a lesser extent, Russians) were captured and sold into slavery in Turkey, but they stayed there.  Up to 5,000 Cossacks from the Zaporizhian Sich did live under the rule of Turkish rule, but in an autonomous region.  Don Cossacks also lived under Ottoman rulers after a split with Peter the Great.

Offline Halo

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4547
  • Country: 00
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #85 on: September 06, 2009, 02:31:54 AM »
I wouldn't call Ukrainian traitors, they were almost always against Russians and it ended up with Banderovcy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army.

My mother in law claims that she was forcibly evacuated by Germans in 1944. In that year Germans were loosing a battle and I don't think they would be concerned with evacuation of some secondary race. I think they (Ukrainians/Pols) used Germans to run away from advancing Russian army, and they had a reason to run. Many Ukrainians were accused of war crimes, mind you not by Russians. Some Ukrainians were involved in extermination of Jews on Ukrainian territory. Many of them escaped in all corners of the world - Argentina, Australia, USA etc.. Can you blame Russians that we don't have particularly warm feelings towards to our "brothers" that fought in that war against us?

I don't know why we always talk about this. It is always us RW against yous -  partners of UW. I don't think you men have enough knowledge to argue with us. In any case it is very sensitive matter for us. What is it for you - go figure  ::)
 I was a bit shocked, when during recent commemoration of the anniversary of the beginning of WWII Pols accused Russia not Germany that was present there as well of all wrong doings that happened in 1939-1940. What do they want Russia to do now? Compensate them? Who will compensate us for that war? We lost more lives/resources/everything  than anybody else.

You have your own stereotypes against Muslims, Mirror has against Ukrainians. How are you different to her?

UPA was not fighting Russians.  It was fighting the Soviets.   Considering the brutality inflicted on Western Ukrainians after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty, this is not surprising.

UPA has been portrayed in the Russian press as Nazi collaborators.  It is true, Bandera took money from the Germans, and provided them information, but that ended by late 1941/early 1942 (can't recall off the top of my head).  Further, this "Nazi" ended up in a Nazi concentration camp.  Two of his brothers died in a concentration camp.

UPA was comprised almost exclusively of Western Ukrainians and Jews.  It did carry out atrocities, largely against Poles, and it fought Germans as well as the Soviets.

You and mirror have ignored the fact that millions of Ukrainians fought in the Red Army.  Ukrainians were such successful "Nazi collaborators", that 7 million of them died during WWII and another 3 to 4 million were taken as forced labourers to Germany.  Two million Red Army soldiers, mostly Ukrainians who were captured in the earliest days of Operation Barbarossa, were starved to death within spitting distance of their homes, or were the earliest victims at Auschwitz.  You are spitting on the graves of all these Ukrainian victims.

The Galician SS Division was funded by Germany.  However, this was not due to any loyalty to the German cause.  Some of those young men were forced to join, taken against their will by the Germans to fight (I know a couple of them, who were 14 and walking on village roads when they were picked up and taken to Germany).  Others joined willingly, with the sole purpose of defeating the Soviets.  The Galician SS Division was investigated thoroughly by Canada's Deschenes Commission, which investigated war crimes committed in the USSR.  It was determined the Galician SS Division never committed any war crimes.  The Deschenes Commission also investigated war crimes committed across the USSR.  It was also determined, and has, since the collapse of the USSR, been confirmed, that Ukrainains had no more colloboration with the Germans than any other occupied country (less than 0.2% of the population).  Many of those collobators did not escape to the West, but remained in the USSR.  Some, who were auxilliary police, were imprisoned for a few years after the war by the Soviets, and then became Soviet police officers.  Guards in SS camps who were Red Army POW's became guards at the gulags because Stalin stated they were "already trained".




Offline Halo

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4547
  • Country: 00
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #86 on: September 06, 2009, 02:40:15 AM »
Most Ukrainains didn't WANT Stalin's failed collective farming methods that resulted in TWO forced famines..one in 1921 and another in 1932..so not JUST Stalin to blame... and certainly NOT only local Ukrainian Communists...!!! WHO inflicted Communism on the Ukrainians?

The country was already screwed up BEFORE the "Great Patriotic War"..Many Ukrainians fought with the Nazis to be rid of Communism...THAT had nothing to do with being anti Russian..

The famine in 1921 was not a forced famine.  It was based on a number of factors, including a drought, lack of railways the after effects of WWI, etc.  

Stalin was not the architect of collectivization.  That honour goes to Trotsky.  But, the "famine" that followed was indeed communist imposed.  Local communists, half of whom were ethnic Ukrainians, supported collectivization, and were predominantly the ones who physically carried it out.

Offline Halo

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4547
  • Country: 00
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #87 on: September 06, 2009, 02:46:22 AM »
But considering experts can not agree on the cause, I doubt if us Westerners have any clue as to what was the cause. Other then the fact a lot of people died, which can be acknowledge as a tragedy, in any ones mind, including Russians.   :)

Any honest historian who has studied the Holodomor has no doubt about the cause.  I knew victims who witnessed all the food from their homes being carted away.  One said the head of the kolkhoz used to come in everyday and say, almost to himself "Why aren't you dead yet?"  I knew people who ate tree bark and leaves.   Anything  you read which attributed the cause of the Holodomor to anything other than man made causes is either a bold faced lie or written by a Bolshevik apologist.

What has been disputed is the number of dead.  The range is from 4 to 10 million.  I think it is likely a little over 4 million, based on archival census data now available to Western historians.

What is overlooked often in the politics of this is that similar famines were orchestrated in Russia and other republics.  Ukraine's famine is more prominent because Ukraine had more peasants, and hence, had more victims.

Offline Halo

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4547
  • Country: 00
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #88 on: September 06, 2009, 02:48:37 AM »
holodomor is sensitive topic which can create a lot missunderstanding...same as great patriotic war II, soviet army in soviet time in baltics,politic of Russia ......etc etc etc....before start to argue, really all -take mirror's advice and study history :nod: that's will help :)

It is only a sensitive topic among Bolshevik apologists.  If Mirror is advising anyone to read history, she should follow that example herself. 

Offline Halo

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4547
  • Country: 00
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #89 on: September 06, 2009, 03:00:07 AM »
The center of the famine, however, was Ukraine and surrounding regions, including the Don, the Kuban, the Northern Caucasus and Kazakhstan where the toll was one million dead.

How Don and Kuban, Caucasus and Kazakhstan all became parts of Ukraine but not big parts of Russia, Kazakhstan obliviously and other independent regions I don't know. The famine (not proUkrainiane holodomor) happened in Russia as well, it was the result of Soviet government at that time, and I'm tired of stressing out that most of that Government wasn't Russian to start with but it is easier to blame Russia for everything that happened in the past.

this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_the_Soviet_Union explains that there was no area in Soviet Union not affected by those tactics. All nations suffered, not only Ukrainians, but this point of view doesn't suit Ukrainians what so ever.

Lets talk instead about who rebuilt Ukraine after WWII and changed her from agricultural country of peasants into industrial country. Did Russian people get any credit for that? Silly question, I know  ::)

First, Ukraine was disproportionately hit during the famine.  Second, the areas of Kuban and to a lesser extent, the Don, which were affected by collectivization had significant Ukrainian populations.  Third, Ukraine had a significant industrial base during the Tsarist period.  

No part of the Tsarist Empire was as heavily industrialized as Western Europe, but to claim Ukraine was changed into an "industrial country" ignores historical reality.  Further, Russians did not make this change.  It was made by Soviets, and it was done earlier than WWII.  The most significant industrial advances occurred in the interwar period.  Of course, this was done through famine, forcing peasants to cities, making them work under fear of gulags, etc.  It was a swift way to industrialize, but not efficient, either economically, or through the use of human capital.  

Finally, I will point to the fact that the "industrialization" of Ukraine and, indeed, the USSR, was a farce.  The only sectors of the Soviet economy that operated efficiently were the KGB and related party machinery, and the military.  The Soviet economy, by KGB analysis, was in economic decline since about 1960.  So what kind of "industrialization" are you lauding here, exactly?

Offline mirror

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3673
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #90 on: September 06, 2009, 03:36:26 AM »

Could you please elaborate why Mirror is jealous?

Because she uses any and all excuses to accuse UW of everything and anything.



Really? I said from first place in this thread that Chris created this topic and then you got a right to blame me for this discussion.

You don't know a history but you have some bad bias towards Russians.You talk about Ukr history without knowing anything.

Can you deny the fact that Americans think that all Russians-communists and there are a red threat from Russia ?


Offline mirror

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3673
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #91 on: September 06, 2009, 03:43:08 AM »

I didn't quote the whole post, in the context it made no difference.  She stated that she believes all Ukrainians are traitors.



Yes, I said my opinion.Why do you blame me for having my own opinion different from yours? Why should my opinion be same like yours and 2tallball? Just because you have Ukr wife and 2tallball has Ukr girlfriend? Sorry,for me it is not a reason to change my opinion.  

My knowledge about Ukr makes my life easier by avoiding traitors in a reality.  If you want to take a risk why not? Did I say you DON"T?

Offline Halo

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4547
  • Country: 00
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #92 on: September 06, 2009, 03:49:42 AM »
Your knowledge about Ukraine and Ukrainians is limited and ill informed.

Let me guess.  You were a good komsomol member from a "decent sovok family".  Today, you are a good "Russian nationalist". 

Offline mirror

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3673
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #93 on: September 06, 2009, 03:55:08 AM »

You and mirror have ignored the fact that millions of Ukrainians fought in the Red Army.  


It is not we ignore. Your government with Yushenko in a head declares all your famous traitors like national heroes.

Offline mirror

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3673
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #94 on: September 06, 2009, 03:57:26 AM »
 Local communists, half of whom were ethnic Ukrainians, supported collectivization, and were predominantly the ones who physically carried it out.


It is why now you blame all Russians for your poor life.

Offline mirror

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3673
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #95 on: September 06, 2009, 04:00:03 AM »
Your knowledge about Ukraine and Ukrainians is limited and ill informed.

Let me guess.  You were a good komsomol member from a "decent sovok family".  Today, you are a good "Russian nationalist".  

When I was visiting my cousin in the UK I was surprised to see how pupils were collecting food,clothers,money for poor Ukr folk. I just wonder why Ukrs don't want to work to make own money? Why they sit and blame Rusians for their poverty?

Offline Halo

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4547
  • Country: 00
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #96 on: September 06, 2009, 04:00:59 AM »
People fighting for independence from the horrors of communism cannot be considered traitors.  I would not consider General Vlaslov's army traitors either.

Who are the real traitors?  Those who supported the Bolsheviks, the most brutal, backward regime of the twentieth century.  Even the Nazis took lessons from them.  I cannot consider anyone who opposed them a traitor.

Incidentally, Yushchenko is not "my president".  Don't make assumptions about who I am. IMHO,  Yushchenko is yet another mediocre Soviet bureaucrat, raised and groomed by the communist party, with no discernable talent beyond his own ambition.

Offline Halo

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4547
  • Country: 00
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #97 on: September 06, 2009, 04:02:46 AM »
Your knowledge about Ukraine and Ukrainians is limited and ill informed.

Let me guess.  You were a good komsomol member from a "decent sovok family".  Today, you are a good "Russian nationalist".  

When I was visiting my cousin in the UK I was surprised to see how pupils were collecting food,clothers,money for poor Ukr folk. I just wonder why Ukrs don't want to work to make own money?

Well, that answered the question.  

As a former sovok, you hardly worked either, so you are in no position to be casting aspersions or judgment on others.

Why did your cousin leave great Mother Russia, with all its opportunities?

Offline mirror

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3673
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #98 on: September 06, 2009, 04:08:49 AM »

Who are the real traitors?  Those who supported the Bolsheviks, the most brutal, backward regime of the twentieth century.  Even the Nazis took lessons from them.  I cannot consider anyone who opposed them a traitor.


Traitors -who betrays neighbours.

If you try to talk about collectivisation and Prodrasverstka then you should know that in a time of a hunger Soviet government tried to share all bread between all people .Too many people were living in towns not only in agrycultural villages so of course they should get a small piece of bread from kolhozniki.

Offline mirror

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3673
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?
« Reply #99 on: September 06, 2009, 04:10:12 AM »
Why did your cousin leave great Mother Russia, with all its opportunities?

It is non of your business...it was not an internet dating like you want to say.


 

 

Registration