The World's #1 Russian, Ukrainian & Eastern European Discussion & Information Forum - RUA!

This Is the Premier Discussion Forum on the Net for Information and Discussion about Russia, Ukraine, Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union. Discuss Culture, Politics, Travelling, Language, International Relationships and More. Chat with Travellers, Locals, Residents and Expats. Ask and Answer Questions about Travel, Culture, Relationships, Applying for Visas, Translators, Interpreters, and More. Give Advice, Read Trip Reports, Share Experiences and Make Friends.

Author Topic: How to be a Guest  (Read 43399 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline ECR844

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7142
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Searching for the word I will become
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: Resident
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2009, 09:49:16 AM »
"Mendy, and JB,"

Thanks for the thoughts. I had a bit of an atypical situation the last time around and I treated it as such. Additionally over the years I've heard of a wide variation of thoughts on it but rarely from those who have spent a lot of time there. I think the insight you both have provided has been invaluable.
Thanks

 

Offline mendeleyev

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12846
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2009, 10:27:18 AM »
JB, we had a similar experience in that I had been forewarned about can openers to took one (manual, but nice) in my things for moving. My first landlord provided a once per week housekeeper who did 3 things for me:

1- Cleaned the apartment.
2- The laundry. I would have done it myself but she refused to show me how to use the confusing washing machine.
3- Steal anything not nailed down.

It wasn't long before the can opener had disappeared and of course the housekeeper had no idea what had happened to it. So for a short time I had to endure the kind you mentioned until a replacement could be sent. The replacement was discovered by my future wife and so new replacements needed to be acquired!  :chuckle:

I ended up having to repack all loose small items like batteries, medicines, books, etc, back in suitcases and putting the little locks back on just in order to keep my things from walking out each week.

About a year or so later I did find some nice kitchen things at a very nice shop along Kutuzovskiy Prospect.

Offline mendeleyev

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12846
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2009, 10:37:26 AM »
Eric, glad to have been of service my friend.

Of course as a relationship progresses the level of gift giving can change, but I usually caution against it changing too much because there must always be the ability for her family to contribute back your direction in order to feel like this is a equal effort with you in making their daughter happy.

This is one of the reasons why I'm personally against engagement rings for FSU ladies. They aren't expected as her culture doesn't do it, and as such it could be seen as flaunting wealth. Mrs. Mendeleyeva didn't want one and so after marriage I ended up a few years later surprising her with a nice anniversary diamond.

I know your situation more fully and you did some pretty cool things with taking foods and helping make the meal preparations more of an "international" event. That is both thoughtful and fun.


Offline fireeater

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3712
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Dating
  • Trips: None Yet
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2009, 12:33:32 PM »
Mendy

I see some similar items that could be found in both countires concerning visiting, as well as a lot of usefull information for those not accustomed to another country.   :)

A question on Dacha's or in our word cottages, you have mentioned them twice now. From a search it seems they are more country homes with fruit and vegetable gardens people tend. Here I would naturally assume a place on the water, when I hear someone mention one.  Are these Dacha's on the water, or more likely to be just located in the countryside, and may or may not have water near them. ?


Offline mendeleyev

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12846
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2009, 07:29:08 PM »
We've moved the Dacha posts, very interesting, over to the Russian Life 101 thread.

http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,7356.msg109050.html#msg109050

Offline mendeleyev

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12846
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2009, 08:12:53 PM »
Footnote on Smiling.

A true East meets West story about smiling:
When the Canadian unit of McDonalds first began to open the first restaurants in Russia, the staff was taught to smile and warmly greet customers.  Needless to say, this was a disaster and the Canadian and American McDonalds trainers had to quickly rethink that strategy. 

Step into a McD today and your cashier will likely skip the smile and hello to look you straight in the eye and ask for your order.  Polite, but sans smile.

Those trainers also made note of how difficult it was to train their new Russian employees about good customer service. One Russian young male employee could finally hold it no longer. It seemed that he'd had enough of being nice to customers, treating customers with respect, etc. That was a new concept coming out of the old Soviet system.

Exasperated he exclaimed, "why do we have to be nice to the customers. After all, we're the ones with the hamburgers!"

Today McDonalds is the largest private landowner in Russia, McDonalds has revitalized the beef farming industry and Russia is in some years an exporter of beef, and McDonald's now operates 103 restaurants in Moscow, Moscow Region, St. Petersburg, Nizhny Novgorod, Yaroslavl, Samara, and Kazan.

Not only does McDonald's in Russia serve more than 200,000 customers every day, but, since opening on January 31, 1990, McDonald's has served more than 66 million Russian Big Mac sandwiches.

Offline patman67

  • Member
  • Posts: 141
  • Gender: Male
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2009, 08:25:18 PM »
Not only does McDonald's in Russia serve more than 200,000 customers every day, but, since opening on January 31, 1990, McDonald's has served more than 66 million Russian Big Mac sandwiches.

Ok, so, I guess you're saying that the lack of obesity in Russia is a temporary situation... ::)

Offline patman67

  • Member
  • Posts: 141
  • Gender: Male
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2009, 08:26:12 PM »
And do they REALLY have McBorscht?

Offline mendeleyev

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12846
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2009, 09:07:14 PM »
- A valued guest is served a great meal!

In the west we mark special occasions by taking family members to a nice restaurant.  Eating out is part of western culture.

In Russia, eating out for a special occasion could be a sign of disrespect.  After all, if a guest is important, why wouldn't we want to prepare a bountiful meal and invite family and friends over to enjoy the meal, the tea afterward, and the hours of laughter and conversation following the meal in the most warm and intimate setting of all--a home?

They key to understanding this concept is the word дом (home). The concept of дома, "at home" is the most cherished way a Russian can entertain a guest.

You need to understand this: WHERE you entertain a UW/RW will mean something. Whether convenient or not, where you eat with her sends a message.

Now obviously at first you may wish to meet somewhere for tea for her and coffee for you. That is understandable. But if you are spending time on a daily basis with her and don't soon receive an invitation to a home meal with other members of her family present (to check you out), then she's being a cordial and polite tour guide and once you return home she might either taper off contact or send a "Dear John" email.

Professor Anna Pavlovskaya reminds us that for Russians, "the celebration of a family meal is a specific and important ritual (family meal = home meal).  Eating together is a sign of friendship which takes your relationships onto a new level."  

She goes on to write that, "a well laid table is a sign of respect for guests." Even in times of hardship Russians will find a way to provide a well provisioned table even if it meant they might go hungry after guests have departed. "That is why a Russian host will be offended if a guest eats only a little....as if their admiration and respect is being turned down."






Once you've established a relationship with a lady be sure to invite her along with MEMBERS OF HER FAMILY to your apartment. I know you want to be alone. Its just not as romantic to gaze across the candlelight, holding a glass of wine, while looking into her father's eyes.  :chuckle:

It's not romantic for you, that is. But to her, you have bestowed a great honour on her family. You have become the man! You have scored BIG POINTS, more points than you'd have scored by having her alone....by a multiplier of thousands.

Why go part way when you can hit a home run? Get the whole family involved in your courtship. They will be anyway, so why not get them on your side!







- Having guests is important to a Russian host.  

An ultimate sign of endearing friendship is the presence of others who are willing to gather in your home for tea, a meal, etc. It is a great honour to have a foreigner in your home.  That is why I worry when a man returns with what he thinks is a good trip report, but he either never met her family at all, or did so under only the most brief of circumstances.

Remember that there are benchmarks here which make it normal that over a short period of time you will be invited into her home with family present.

1- Its a sign of taking a friendship into the next level of a relationship.
2- A foreign guest is a sign of prestige. Its something her family will talk about for months to neighbors, at work, other relatives, friends, etc.
3- Guests in the home is a premier Russian/Ukrainian source of friendship and entertainment.

In summary, taking her out to nice restaurants might seem like fun, and you should do it, but not at the peril of missing the opportunity to participate in, and host in your temporary apartment, some home meals.


Lucky you, fish for dinner!



In any situation going out to eat is fun, but when in comes to courtship it doesn't have the same impact as you would expect back home.

Offline mendeleyev

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12846
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
how to be a guest continued
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2009, 02:21:10 AM »
- Show your pleasure at getting to meet the family.

When you are invited to a Russian home the way apartments are often situated on side streets off main streets/avenues, it's likely you'll be met outside at the street level or at the closest bus stop. Someone from the home will greet you and bring you into the metal doors at the main entrance.


Double doors outside


Don't be too shocked at the entry condition. One thing you'll learn while in Russia and Ukraine is that the outside of the building and the main interior often have nothing to say about the condition of an apartment once inside.


Elegant old hall entry ceiling


You'll likely go thru at least two sets of steel doors, using either a pin keypad or buzzer intercom to pass through. Most apartments are on upper floors and you can take the stairs or use the лифт (lift = elevator). Once at the front door of the apartment you'll buzz the doorbell.

Step inside immediately. No hugs or handshakes across a threshold. After a brief greeting remove your outdoor shoes. You will be given slippers to wear. It is impolite to walk in a Russian home only in socks or in bare feet. It's okay to take along your own slippers if that makes you comfortable. I generally do.

Once seated in the living area of the largest bedroom (all rooms are multi purpose), offer to help the hostess with the preparation or clearing up after a meal is served. With the first request you will be turned down out of politeness. Asking a second time allows the hostess to accept your offer...or she may not, especially if this is the first time to their home.

Do not cross your legs with the ankle on the knee and it's impolite to show people the soles of your feet. There will be a lot to learn about Russian apartments so try not to stare too much. Likely the things you see will be more older than what you experience at home.

If asked if you are thirsty, go for water before the meal. First it shows that you are not a heavy drinker, something in men most RW wish to avoid. Second, because there will be toasts later, and plenty of them, you'll need the water in your system plus some food before trying to manage alcohol.
 


- Regarding table manners...

There are some differences and you don't need to convert to new manners. But knowing the differences will help. You'll see that Europeans hold the fork in the left hand and the knife in the right while eating.  This is European Continential style.  Unless you are at a very formal function, you may hold utensils like you do back home.

The oldest or most honoured guest is served first and in Russian politeness its important that you do not rest your elbows on the table, and your hands should be visible at all times.

You will often be urged to take second helpings. Take them. It is okay to use bread to soak up gravy or sauce.

Men pour drinks for women seated next to them...you already know stuff like this.

Leaving a small amount of food on your plate indicates that your hosts have provided ample hospitality. It is improper to look into another's plate or saucer.

Remember to say "Thanks, everything was very tasty" to the one who made the dish upon leaving the table.  If a translator is present the phrase "very tasty" is probably better to use than "delicious."  Very tasty in Russian sounds something like "oh-chen koos-nah."  




- Enjoy the time around the table.

Often a table is unfolded and positioned next to the sofa. That way the sofa becomes a "row" for 2-3 people to sit on one side. Then chairs are placed around the rest of the table.

Likely this meal will be called ужин (ooh-zhin = Dinner) and the first course of an evening meal are salads.

Russian салат (sah-lat = salad) probably bears little resemblence to a typical American salad, for example. It might contain lettuce, but more than likely would not. Russia is a cold northern climate and salads are usually made of things like beets and potatoes, hearty root crops.


Herring in beets/sourcream


Russians tend to love mayonnaise or sour cream in a salad, and what you may be accustomed to for salad dressings, while not unknown, aren’t used that often. At dinner, especially on special occasions or when guests are present, a Russian table will be loaded with a variety of tasty salads—usually none will contain lettuce.


Salad "Olivie"


Many Russian salads are topped with salted meats or poached fish or a combination of the two. If fresh vegetables are not available, as typically are not throughout the harsh Russian winter, pickled vegetables, such as cabbage, are used.


Mimosa (Layered Fish Salad)



Dressings are usually майонез (may-ah-neze = mayonnaise) or сметана (smee-tana = sour cream).








In a Russian meal the bountiful salads are considered as appetizers and the next serving is the суп (sueph) soup. Generally soup is referred to in Russian as первое блюдо (pear-vah blu-dah) which means “the first dish.”


Fish soup


In the summertime cold soups are served and in the winter few things can compete with a bowl of piping hot Russian soup. The soup course is followed by meat, especially fish, and more vegetables. Soup is a very important component to Russian cuisine and sometimes doubles as the main entree in harder times.

You'll discover that the main dish, really isn't. Its sort of tacked on near the end because in a real celebration the salad will take front and center on the table and most of the time the fascinating taste experiences happen during the salad course.



Salmon and rice.


Russians love fish. In any form--from raw to smoked to marinated to pickled to baked to boiled to fried to steamed and any other way you could think to fix it. Fish is number one, followed closely by chicken. Beef finds it way on the table once in a while, but not very often.


Chicken cutlets & mushrooms


Offline shakespear

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8136
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
Re: how to be a guest continued
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2009, 09:39:22 AM »
- Regarding table manners...


You forgot to mention the rule about "fallen soldiers"

If you finish the last bit in a bottle of vodka, wine or cognac IT IS CONSIDERED RUDE to put the empty bottle back on the table.  Place it on the floor next to you.   
"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" - Katharine Hepburn

Offline Donhollio

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6193
  • Country: 00
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2009, 08:18:03 PM »
Quote from: Shakey
~to that end I bought a nice KitchenAid geared can opener at WalMart before I left home. (prolly less than $10).  One evening I was entertaining my lady, (now wife) and she saw me open a can of something with the Kitchen Aid.  

 ~Between the can opener, and the large double pack of Skippy Extra Crunchy peanut butter

 I have heard about the joy of gifting a can opener that cuts the side of the can , and keeps the lid from falling in.
 I don't eat peanut butter, but is it not available in the FSU ?

BTW I'd like to nominate this topic for sticky status  :THUB:

Offline mendeleyev

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12846
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2009, 12:06:17 AM »
Quote
You forgot to mention the rule about "fallen soldiers"

If you finish the last bit in a bottle of vodka, wine or cognac IT IS CONSIDERED RUDE to put the empty bottle back on the table.  Place it on the floor next to you.


Thank you, Shakespear!

Yes, never place an empty drink container, especially if it's alcohol, back on the table. Just set it on the floor beside you.

A possible exception might be bottles which will be re-used. A milk bottle or water bottle for example. Sometimes these (ask the hostess) are handed back and taken to the kitchen. In some homes they might go on the floor too.





Check out several things in this small kitchen (usually you'll be served in the largest bedroom which serves at living room/dining room by day). Do you see the lone bottle on the table. That looks like a KVAS bottle. Now, take you eyes to the floor near the lady. Do you see the empty bottles on the floor?



Of interest: Just in case you wondered, on the wall just to the right of the stove is a wire holder with dishes. See it? In this tiny apartment, that is this family's "dish cabinet." All her dishes, not many, will be put on that wire shelf after being washed. Her small sink is just to the right, only the corner is visible.

Offline mendeleyev

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12846
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2009, 12:09:59 AM »
Don, peanut butter is more widely available these days. We usually take some because the smooth/creamy kind is not always on shelves. But yes, peanut butter is available generally.

Offline mendeleyev

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12846
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2009, 01:58:24 AM »
- Don't leave the table:

Do not get up until you are invited to leave the table. Normally the guest of honour is the first to get up from the table.  If you are the guest of honour the hostess will suggest when to leave the table--in most cases it will be a couple of hours, or more, from the moment you sat down.  Tea and conversation is done at the table after the meal.

As mentioned before you'll be at the table in many cases, for several hours. As time progresses the age old honour of drinking tea will be observed. This is a must to most Russians!





Think of tea in the same way Indians and settlers would sit after a meal and smoke peace pipes. In attitude, these are very similar.

While the media popularizes drinking of vodka in Russia, truth is, Russian tea is consumed in much greater quantities. Drinking coffee is not much of a Russian tradition and tea drinking is a very important part of Slavic hospitality.

чай is the word for tea and you're probably already familiar with this word: "Chai."

In tea making often the family uses a samovar.  In Cyrillic it looks like this, самовар, and sounds like "sahm-ah-VAR."






Very often you'll be served a dessert such as торт (cake) along with the tea. Russian cakes are going to be quite different from the soft American styles especially. Not always, but usually there is a decorative fruit or jelled topping or center.


Fruit jelled tort



The enjoyment of tea can go on for a long time. As long as someone can make hot water and put in tea leaves, it'll just keep on coming.



Ukrainian Grape pie



To understand more about Russian tea drinkiing follow this RUA link: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,7356.msg106868.html#msg106868

Offline TrevorM

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 618
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
Re: how to be a guest continued
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2009, 02:51:36 AM »
- Regarding table manners...


You forgot to mention the rule about "fallen soldiers"

If you finish the last bit in a bottle of vodka, wine or cognac IT IS CONSIDERED RUDE to put the empty bottle back on the table.  Place it on the floor next to you.   

I have never got to the bottom of this one. I understood it to be a strongly held superstition but no one can explain what it is about.  ???  Mendy?

The first summer Irina was here, we were invited to dinner at a neighbour's house. After pouring drinks, they left the empty bottle on the table; Irina immediately got up, grabbed the bottle and rushed into the kitchen with it and then returned to her seat. I assumed that if she hadn't done this, the house would have been in imminent danger of being struck by a thunderbolt from some vengeful god/spirit.   :evilgrin0002:

Offline mendeleyev

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12846
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2009, 10:33:04 AM »
Trevor, there seems to be two (maybe even more?) opinions on how this came into being. I have gotten two different versions and since there is a superstition against asking about Russian superstitions, apparently my very life was at stake when inquiring about it!  :chuckle:

Version 1 came from my Mother-in-Law:
Empty bottles are a sign of poverty as when you display a lack of something, poverty and need will come true in your life. Therefore bottles go on the floor, out of sight where they are not seen publically on the table.



Version 2 came from Sasha, a friend:
Empty bottles invite death into the home and are a sign of a pending funeral in your house.

Okay....why?

He wasn't sure. As he is almost 60 years old I didn't want to press the issue--after all why cause him stress and then he might have a heart attack and since he has no children, I'd probably be responsible for planning his funeral. Come to think of it, I'd also be responsible for all those empty bottles in his home left by his friends drinking away their sorrows because of his demise.

Gosh, just the thought makes me depressed.


So, where did the nickname "fallen soldiers" for empty bottles come from?
I've heard it but am not able to pin it down. Could it be an honorary descripton given as appreciation for the good effort this bottle has made to our life's pleasure? That is a good question.

Perhaps one of our very astute members has the info on it which would be nice to hear!

Offline patman67

  • Member
  • Posts: 141
  • Gender: Male
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2009, 11:11:01 AM »

So, where did the nickname "fallen soldiers" for empty bottles come from?
I've heard it but am not able to pin it down. Could it be an honorary descripton given as appreciation for the good effort this bottle has made to our life's pleasure? That is a good question.

Perhaps one of our very astute members has the info on it which would be nice to hear!

That may not be Russian, per se....it is common in the Americas, as well as some European countries (though it usually applies to bottles of beer). I think your definition is as good as any I have heard.

Offline shakespear

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8136
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2009, 11:19:19 AM »
So, where did the nickname "fallen soldiers" for empty bottles come from?
I've heard it but am not able to pin it down. Could it be an honorary description given as appreciation for the good effort this bottle has made to our life's pleasure? That is a good question.

Perhaps one of our very astute members has the info on it which would be nice to hear!

As a former US Marine I'm happy to share the origin of this slang with pride.  It's something all Marines are taught in their history, customs and traditions class at Boot Camp or at Quantico -

"Why is an empty bottle of wine called a dead soldier? This is one of the few Sailor Talk that we can actually trace to a specific person on a specific date.

William IV was known as the 'Sailor King'. As the third son of George III, he was born Prince William Henry. In 1789 he became Duke of Clarence. As a youth he joined the navy as a midshipman and rose through the ranks. Someone in his social position might expect to become rear admiral through patronage. The Duke of Clarence made rear admiral through true merit.

Shortly after receiving his promotion to rear admiral in 1790, His Highness was at dinner on board one of his fleet's ships. He ordered the steward to remove the 'dead marines' to make room for new bottles. A marine officer at the table complained. His Highness responded that no offense was intended. The expression was used in the sense "...that, like marines, the bottle had given its life nobly and, given the chance, would do it again."

"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" - Katharine Hepburn

Offline alenika

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2346
  • Country: ge
  • Gender: Female
Re: how to be a guest continued
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2009, 01:39:23 PM »
I have never got to the bottom of this one. I understood it to be a strongly held superstition but no one can explain what it is about.  ???  Mendy?
Here in Georgia we also always put empty bottles on the floor. But I always thought that this is done because of lack of space on the table (and it is always lack of space when it is table for guest dinner) to keep there something none needs anymore.

On normal tables without guests (that is, normal amount of food) it is ok to keep for example empty bottle of champagne for a while.
I close eyes to see better

Offline patman67

  • Member
  • Posts: 141
  • Gender: Male
Re: how to be a guest continued
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2009, 02:05:27 PM »
Here in Georgia we also always put empty bottles on the floor. But I always thought that this is done because of lack of space on the table (and it is always lack of space when it is table for guest dinner) to keep there something none needs anymore.

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one...many customs are based on the practical, rather then the superstitious... :)

Offline MND

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1476
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2009, 06:08:49 AM »
Trevor, there seems to be two (maybe even more?) opinions on how this came into being. I have gotten two different versions and since there is a superstition against asking about Russian superstitions, apparently my very life was at stake when inquiring about it!  :chuckle:

Version 1 came from my Mother-in-Law:
Empty bottles are a sign of poverty as when you display a lack of something, poverty and need will come true in your life. Therefore bottles go on the floor, out of sight where they are not seen publically on the table.



Version 2 came from Sasha, a friend:
Empty bottles invite death into the home and are a sign of a pending funeral in your house.

Okay....why?

He wasn't sure. As he is almost 60 years old I didn't want to press the issue--after all why cause him stress and then he might have a heart attack and since he has no children, I'd probably be responsible for planning his funeral. Come to think of it, I'd also be responsible for all those empty bottles in his home left by his friends drinking away their sorrows because of his demise.

Gosh, just the thought makes me depressed.


So, where did the nickname "fallen soldiers" for empty bottles come from?
I've heard it but am not able to pin it down. Could it be an honorary descripton given as appreciation for the good effort this bottle has made to our life's pleasure? That is a good question.

Perhaps one of our very astute members has the info on it which would be nice to hear!

He!!He!! My wife says the same there is a superstition against asking about Russian superstitions

Her take on the bottle thing is this

Never place an empty bottle back on the table, it is unlucky. The table should be plentiful, to encourage plenty of everything.


Offline MND

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1476
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2009, 06:34:00 AM »
hey Mend has she hit you with this one yet when shopping

Money should be placed on the counter and then picked up by the recipient. Not everybody minds of course, but it is a general rule.

He!!He!! How did i ever survive before without knowing all these superstitions

Offline mendeleyev

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12846
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2009, 10:07:48 AM »
Schastlivyj, yes, the giving and receiving of money was a habit I had to break at first. It didn't take long.

In Russia and Ukraine you are expected to pay the cashier for your purchases by placing your money on the counter. Usually there is a little pad (about the size of a mouse pad) there for that purpose.

The cashier then makes your change and places it on the pad for you to pick up. Money should never be handed directly to someone.

My mother in law even practices this tradition in our home. If she asks me to stop by a market to pick up something for herself, I've learned that she will place the money on a table or counter and I will pick it up. I've also learned to return change to her the same way. She does that with everyone.

Mrs Mendeleyeva however, has become fully Westernized in this area. She and I pass money back and forth by hand with no problem.  :laugh:

Not long ago the very lovely Mrs Mendeleyeva came up at my side, blew in my ear while placing some money in my shirt pocket, being way too friendly around my pocket I might add, while saying "hurry home with those tomatoes because I have plans for you after dinner."

I probably set a new record time in getting to the market and back!  ;D

Offline mendeleyev

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12846
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: How to be a Guest
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2009, 11:03:39 AM »
- How to make toasts.

Here are some general guidelines when as a guest you are expected to take part in toasts:





If you accept alcohol, the liquid in your glass must be completely emptied.
 
One should not put a glass with alcohol back on the table.
 
Traditionally alcohol is poured out to all the people present, though they are not required to drink (women and children).
 
There should not be a long waiting period between first and second wine glasses.

A latecomer must drink a full glass (so-called "penal" shot) in addition to the regular shots.

A departing guest must drink last glass, so-called "na pososhok" (На посошок). Loosely translated as "for good luck."
 
As a rule, every portion of spirit is accompanied by a touch of glasses and a toast. (Funeral and memorial commemorations are exceptions; there the touch of glasses is forbidden.)
 
You should never pour a drink while holding a bottle at the bottom.

It is not allowed to fill a glass being held in the air. Your host/hostess will insist that you sit the glass on the table before wine, etc is poured. This however is not the rule for vodka toasts.


Your hosts will make toasts to honour your presence. Make certain to make one or two (generally 3 max) to wish the host and hostess these things: happiness-health-wealth-good luck.

Soon after you propose a toast to the host/hostess, make one regarding your special lady friend. Be careful here and do it as I outline because there are some missteps you don't wish to make: BE CERTAIN to make this toast "on behalf of your relatives and friends back home who send their greetings and wishes of happiness-health-wealth-good luck to (her name) and this family." Don't stray on this one--keep it to what I've outlined.

Toasts should always compliment, but never use a toast to say "thank you" directly. If you wish to make a toast to show appreciation it's okay to mention gratefulness but that should not be the object of the toast.

Here is an example of saying thank you in a toast without saying it directly: "I propose a toast to Sasha, who has been a good tour guide this week, and has shown me the greatness of Russia and opened my eyes to to the beauty of (name of this city). I wish Sasha much happiness-health-wealth-good luck in the future. (You said thank you but couched it so it wasn't a direct toast as the thank you.)

Likely a translator will be present. Sometimes the translator is your lady. Keep in mind that they've not lived in the West and have not encountered the full force of the English language. Nobody can be truly "fluent" in a language without being a part of the culture of a language--a University degree notwithstanding. So, avoid excess words (even if it sounds stilted to you), speak slowly and directly. This gives the translator the best chance at hearing and saying what you wish to convey.

Example of doing it badly: "I, ah, well, in thinking of all the fun we've had this evening, I'd like to make a toast as a goodwill expression of all that has, ahem, transpired here tonight and this past week. Svetlana and I have grown to be really attached and I, well, hope to come back soon and, ah, perhaps this relationship can go to the next level...at least I'd like for it to go to the next level and I think that she feels the same. Ah, well what I'm trying to say it that I thank you for a great time and hope that you experience many happy things in the future. I'm not good at making these toasts so I hope that Igor the translator can make sense of what I'm saying and here is a toast to everyone in the room and to friends and loved ones not present, and also to everyone we will meet in the future. Yes, it's been a good week and I hope to come back soon and enjoy this wonderful experience again. Ah, okay, that is my toast I guess."

Holy crap, what is Igor the translator supposed to do with that rambling? If you need to write it before hand, there is no law or tradition against doing so. Write it down, use easy and direct words and keep it short.

Lets recraft that toast: "Tonight has been a wonderful evening. Meeting Svetlana's family has been very special for me. I will cherish this dinner in my heart because of this family. I hope you understand that Svetlana and I are happy to have found each other. It is my plan to return soon to visit your wonderful daughter. I bring warm greetings to you from my family and friends in Canada and they with me propose this toast to wish this family and this home. We wish you much happiness, good health and good luck."

Igor the translator can handle that much better.

It is also in "good form" to toast any of her close friends who have come to this dinner. In fact, don't forget to do it. Simply propose a toast which compliments her choice of friends and your pleasure at meeting them. (Remember they are there because she values their opinions about her choice of a mate--they would not be present if she didn't plan on giving them a "vote" in the matter. So butter up the jury if you catch my drift.)

Any outside relative or family friend who has been invited, whether you realized it or not, has been invited as a member of the "jury." They will, after you have returned home, be allowed to voice their opinion and give counsel on whether or not this lady and you should "move to the next level." Their presence wasn't accidential--they were included for a reason.

Be a good diplomat on your own behalf.






Here is something copied and from a blogger named Konstantin:

(Mendeleyev disclaimer: Read and try at your own risk. Neither RUA nor myself can guarantee any results from reading this article.)

Russians are renowned for drinking a lot of vodka staying sober. That’s not something to do with biological inheritance but with the way we drink.

Russians believe that foreigners don’t know how to drink. They don’t eat while drinking. They mix cocktails. They sip vodka instead of taking shots. They drink vodka with highly carbonated sodas. In short, they do everything to get drunk from the minimum amount of alcohol. May be it has something to do with innate Western avidity or expensiveness of alcohol.

Russians, on the other hand, do everything to stay sober while drinking as much alcohol as possible. How do we do it? We try to neutralize alcohol as long as possible. I try to outline the basic principles of vodka drinking for uninitiated.

One hour before the party.

1. Eat a couple of boiled potatoes.
2. Drink one or two raw eggs.
3. Drink one or two table-spoons of olive oil. Sunflower oil will also do.
Thus it’s guaranteed that you will stay sober for at least one bottle of vodka. I’m not kidding. Raw eggs are the most important part of Russian pre-party preparations.

At the party:

1. If you start drinking vodka – drink only vodka. No beer or wine. No water or juice. Carbonated drinks are taboo.
2. Drink vodka only in shots. Never sip.
3. Eat immediately after taking a shot. Russian zakuskis are often translated as appetizers. That’s not quite correct. Zakuskis are something you ‘zakusyvayesh’ with after taking a shot of vodka. They are very important to neutralize alcohol. That’s why they all contain two most important alcohol neutralizers – acid and salt. I recommend taking the following sequence:
- immediately after taking a shot – two slices of lemon;
- then some salted cucumbers, pickles, marinated tomatoes or caviar.
- then something with a lot of oil: herring (traditionally with cold boiled potatoes and onion), sardines, or shproty (small smoked sprats in olive oil);
- then traditional Russian salads, like Oliviye or Herring with boiled beet and mayonnaise. Almost all Russian salads come under heavy mayonnaise dressing. Remember – acid, salt, eggs and oil. Ukrainians and Southern Russians prefer smoked lard with garlic but it’s a zakuska for professionals.

4. Only three first vodka shots at a Russian party are ‘obligatory’ so to say. That means you have to take them if you want to show you’re a friendly person but not an unsociable person. After that you can ‘miss’ one or two shots. Just say, “Ya propuskayu” (Literally, I make it slip) and cover your glass with your palm. That doesn’t mean you can abstain from drinking till the end of the party. It means (excusing yourself that you’re a foreigner) can take one shot out of two your Russian guests take.

I think, some Russian party traditions need to be explained here. In Russia we party around a big table with bottles and zakuskis. We drink only when someone makes a toast and we drink all together. The person who makes a toast usually pours vodka to all glasses. Taking a bottle yourself and drinking vodka without others is a faux pas. Actually you (and all others) are ordered to drink after a toast. Everyone at the party is supposed to make a toast – being a foreigner is not an excuse. So be prepared – buy yourself a book on party toasts (there are a lot of them on sale in Russia) and learn some by heart.

5. Zakuskis part of the party take about an hour – or something like 200 grams (4 shots) of vodka. Then comes “goryacheye” (hot dishes). Even though zakuskis could be very filling – you should eat goryacheye if you want not be become drunk.
6. Actively participate in intellectual talks around the table. Mental activity is probably the best method to keep you excited but sober. Try, for example, to drink two pints of beer while reading a philosophical book and see the result.
7. At the end of the party come tea and cakes. Don’t miss it too. This way you show your hosts that you’re survived the party without dire consequences.

Now in the course of 4 or 5 hours you drunk a bottle of vodka (500 grams) and you’re only slightly tight.

After the party.

1. Keep a small bottle of beer in refrigerator. Wake up at about 5 in the morning, drink your beer and go back to bed. It prevents hang-over in the morning.
2. If the early morning beer didn’t help (it usually does), drink a glass of brine from the jar you kept you pickles in.

Many Russians recommend taking a shot of vodka in the morning to fight hang-over. Don’t do it. It helps only alcoholics. If you’re not, it will make things worse.

Link: http://konstantin2005.blogspot.com/2005/09/how-to-drink-vodka-and-stay-sober.html