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Author Topic: For better or worse, in my case worse  (Read 38936 times)

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Offline downhearted

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For better or worse, in my case worse
« on: June 29, 2009, 02:48:44 AM »
Hi everyone,

I feel the need to tell my story. It’s the story of my marriage to a Russian lady. A marriage I thought was perfect which has descended into a futile exercise of tolerance on my part of a woman so pig headed, manipulative and selfish I can’t believe.

It’s a bit of a read but in order to get an idea of from where we started to where we are today I thought it best to include our full history.

Anyway, it was 4 years ago and I met my now wife through an agency. Right away I felt a special connection with her. She was charming, funny and sweet. We had a number of dates and within a week I knew she was the one for me. However I did not rush in and propose straight away. Instead I returned home and we would correspond with each other for another six months until I flew over to see her again.

When I flew over to see her I met with her family. I didn’t do this the first time around and I wanted to do this to get her mothers blessing before I proposed to her. Knowing that her mother approved I proposed to her. She accepted and we went off and organized the visa for her to come live with me.

Six months later she got her visa and arrived in my country. It was great having her with me at last and everything was brilliant in my life. I took a couple of weeks off and showed her around, getting her acquainted with where I live and introducing her to my friends. Everybody loved her and the general comment was how sweet she was. We were both inseparable.

About 3 weeks after arriving she had a conversation with her mother. Both her mother and her were devout Orthodox Christians. Her mother told her that it was sinful for her to be sleeping with me while we were not husband and wife. So she told me we could not have sex again until we got married and we should get married as soon as possible. Instead of having a well planned wedding a few months later we got married in a rush a week later. None of my family was able to attend as they all live overseas and it was on far too short notice.

Anyway, we got married and things were going well apart from the occasional bouts of homesickness she would have. I would always be there to comfort her through this. We were very much in love and things seemed perfect. About four months into our marriage I lost my job and decided to move to another city were the job prospects were better. However it took about 6 weeks to find a job and the move and period of unemployment drained our savings. Throughout this period she was very supportive and I thought what a brilliant wife I have. Eventually found a job and the money I was on was significantly higher than I was at my previous role and things started picking up for us.

The wife was adapting well to the new city and they had excellent services for immigrants. She found one place that found her employment if she wanted it. She decided to take the job offer just to get something on her resume. It wasn’t much of a job. Just a factory job but the money was reasonable. It would last for 6 weeks. For the first week she was not too bad but a habit of coming home and moaning and complaining about her day started and gradually got worse. She would complain up to 2 or 3 hours about her day. It was the first signs of a personality she had kept well hidden but I didn’t think too much of it at the time because I have had horrible jobs myself and done my share of bitching in the past.

Eventually she quit the job. I had been telling her for a few weeks beforehand that we didn’t need the money and if you don’t like it leave and eventually she did. We managed to save all the money she made and put it aside for a holiday. However she had a family tragedy and needed to return to Russia. So we decided she would use this money to return to Russia which she did for 7 weeks.

It was tough being apart for 7 weeks and I really missed her. I managed to meet some other western men-russian women couples while she was away and when she returned I introduced her to them.

We had been together for a little over a year now. The wife had now established a network of friends through the Russian church she attended and also through the couples we met. She had begun language classes to improve her grammar and spelling and was adjusting really well. For the next few months things were great then she started getting a little homesick. She would begin to get a little irritable then a little more and a little more. It was a pattern which would repeat. She said she needed a break and to return home so I agreed and off she went back to Russia for 4 weeks.

She returned from Russia all fresh and renewed. Things were fine but she wasn’t happy living where we were. I lived a suburban lifestyle and she didn’t like the suburbs much. They were way too quiet and she likened it to living in a dacha. So we moved to a more busier cosmopolitan suburb as there were only the two of us and no children. The travel was less to my work so it worked out well.

Shortly after I moved my job finished up and because of the time of year (Christmas) it took 2 months to find a new job. With the recent trip to Russia and the cost of the move our savings had been depleted. To compound things my parents were visiting. They had yet to meet the wife as both my parents lived abroad, although they were separated. The plan was for them to attend the wedding and meet her there but the marriage was done so hastily this never happened.

First my father visited and then my mother. Despite the tough times we were going through the wife was a perfect hostess. She was kind, helpful, polite and charming. Both parents loved her to bits and congratulated me on finding such wonderful woman. It couldn’t have gone better. I started a new job while the mum visited and everything was back on track or so I thought.


Soon after the parents left, the wife decided she wanted a trip home again. This was despite the fact our savings were depleted. I explained this to her but she didn’t seem to care. Then I suggested that maybe she find a job to help pay for her trip. Not an unreasonable request by any means but the reaction I got was astonishing. She tore shreds out of me, told me how it was the mans job to provide the income and to never ask that she find a job again. She also had a go at me about my credit card debt. Most of which was for the trips to Russia.

After the job episode and being told I couldn’t afford to send her to Russia, a change in attitude begun. She would be more argumentative and moody than I had seen her before. She even threatened to divorce me and return to Russia a few times. If I knew what I do now I would have bought her a one way ticket gladly. Eventually I bought her a ticket with my credit card going further into debt. We had agreed a long time before to not use the credit cards at all unless absolutely necessary but she insisted we go into further debt to send her home.

During this time one key incident did happen. She was volunteering at church and one of the ladies there gave her a verbal spraying. This woman had her back turned to the wife and didn’t realise who she was talking to. When she did she was shocked and apologetic for her behaviour because she thought of my wife like a daughter but the wife was taken back by this and didn’t forgive her. I spent a week comforting her. She would stop volunteering for the church after that. I discovered from this how unforgiving she could be.

Finally she had her trip to Russia. She went for 6 weeks. To be honest half of me was glad to see her gone. I saw a side in her in the two to three months leading up to the trip I did not like. It was a pattern that would get worse. She would be great when she came from Russia. First 4 months nice as can be then she would gradually get worse and worse to live with.     

She came back from Russia and things were sweet again. About a month after she came back my contract finished but I had a new job lined up. However fate was not kind and the two days before I was to start my new job AIG collapsed. Suddenly my new job disappeared and I was left looking for a job at the start of the financial crisis.

It would take 7 weeks to find a new job. During this time I registered for unemployment and the wife was now eligible as well to register. Part of the registration process was to register with a job agency and after the wife done this within 24 hours they found a part time job for her just 10 minutes walk from home.

She started this job and like before the first week was fine but the bitching would begin gradually. About 3 weeks into her job I got offered a job. As soon as I started the wife made a decision to quit her role. No consultation whatsoever with me was made despite the fact at the time we could have really used the cash and I was still a month off receiving my first pay check. Her reason for quitting was that they took a shift day off her.

Around this same time she made a decision to start trimming her friend list. Slowly I saw her blow friends off one by one. Some of the reasons she used for ending the friendships were completely trivial. I was seeing a nasty side of her which would become more commonplace. In the space of two months she went from having around a dozen good friends to having no friends. She would get around 3-4 calls a day from friends. By the end of the year nobody would ring her. She would have me answer the calls and say whatever excuse she could think of.

Offline downhearted

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2009, 02:49:43 AM »
New Years Eve came around. The previous year we had a house full of guests. This year there was nobody and it was just the way the wife wanted it and she was happy to tell me this. Later that evening an argument would happen over something trivial. She had developed a habit of nagging and boy, could she nag. Most times in the past I just sat there and copped it but this time I let rip and told her how much of a bitch she was being. She said it was the worst New Years she had ever had and I told her the same. At midnight I wished her a happy new year. She didn’t bother to do the same and I called it a night.

Next day my father arrived for a week. I pre-warned him at the airport the wife was in a bitchy mood but she turned on the charm for him, pretending everything was happy families. She apologised to me for her behaviour the previous night and the week while the father was there was pleasant and incident free. My father decided to give us $4,000 as a late wedding present for the both of us. The wife had wanted to invite her mother over and my father gave her the money for this. However this money was not used for this. The wife decided to use most of it for herself.

As soon as the father left, it was like turning a switch. She went from nice to bitch. She had now alienated herself from all her friends. Now her focus was my family. She wanted to drive a wedge between my mum and us. The mum would regularly call on skype twice a week. We would always have nice conversations. But Christmas had just gone and the wife decided she was pissed off with my mum because they didn’t send me a Christmas present.

My mum and I never do Christmas, just Birthdays, but the wife insisted this was a big insult. I just looked at her stunned when she said she did not want to speak with my mum again because of this. This was a woman who had been nothing but kind to her, sent her jewellery and movies and thought the world of her. She would not speak to my mum for three months. My mum knows why now but while this was going on she was constantly getting me to make excuses. First thing my mum would do when she rung is ask if the wife was there and for three months I had to lie to her.

Anyway, it was February now and the wife started a course at a local college. She said she would be busy with studies and that I should help out more around the house. I had no objection and I started cooking and doing the dishes a bit more. However the more I offered to do the more she expected that I did. Also a lot of what I did was not appreciated and criticised. With her there was two ways of doing something. Her way and the wrong way. Nothing was ever good enough. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

It was March now and my father came to visit for 5 days on his way back from an overseas trip to his brother’s funeral. This time though she didn’t put the charm on. My dad got to see some of her not so charming qualities. My dad organized to meet a friend of his for lunch and that they would meet at our place first the wife went off at him. However my dad doesn’t have the passive temperament I do and stood his ground. We had organized the meeting the night before and told her about it but she had forgot and pretended like we never told her. She was also studying for exams over this weekend and when she failed one of her exams she blamed the Dad for it, despite the fact she deliberately skipped 5 of the classes on the subject she failed because as she said she didn’t like it. She wouldn’t talk to him for a month after this and this was the person who again had been nothing but kind and generous with her.

After the Dad left things quickly descended with arguments commonplace. She would bitch and moan at me about the littlest things and pick fights. She would constantly criticise me for not doing enough housework, despite the fact I was doing close to 30% of it and being the sole income earner. It was in this period she flat out refused to do my laundry. For the last 9 months I had been ironing my own clothes but now it was my responsibility to wash and dry them as well. 

It was April and the wife had not been in Russia for 7 months. From past history I knew she would just get worse and worse until she went back home. Now with enough money in our savings, she was demanding a trip back to Russia in June. I agreed and deep down wished she could fly sooner. I needed a break from her and I needed to address our issues.

The next week the Dad rang up and said he was going in hospital in June. I told the wife I wanted to go see him and make sure things were ok with him. The objection and fuss she kicked up stunned me. First she was insulted that I would consider taking a trip overseas to see my Dad without asking her and then when I stated she would be in Russia at the time she started saying we couldn’t afford it. The trip was costing me less than 20% of what her trip was. I was amazed at just how selfish she was.

May went by and the fights continued. Another ugly characteristic she had was that she was a control freak. It was something she was not in the first two years. I mentioned earlier there were two ways of doing something - her way or the wrong way. This did not apply to just housework. She was trying to control every aspect of my life now. She would tell me what I could or could not wear. If she didn’t like something I was watching on the TV she would turn it off. She even tried to control the speed I ate because she didn’t like how I would finish my meal before her.

My mum had organized a visit from overseas a few months earlier and I was expecting her and a few relatives for my birthday. They had planned to come from 10 days but the wife said because she might be doing exams at the time that they come for only 5 days. For up to 4 weeks prior to her visit the wife would constantly complain to me how inconvenient their visit was. The day before she was to arrive we had a big fight. The fight was because I did not wear a scarf to work that day and she decided to scold me for that. She threatened to make my mum feel unwelcome while she was her. Sure enough, she did not disappoint. 

Next morning I picked up my mum and relatives from the airport and took them around home. We got back around 10am and the wife was not there to greet them. She was still in bed. I offered them some tea or coffee and then went to look for some. There was no tea or coffee to be found so I headed down the shops to get some. Eventually the wife woke up and greeted everyone. The wife had an exam later in the week so I organized it so everybody would be out doing things all day so she would get some peace and quiet. So we all headed out until 5pm.

After this we went home. I had offered to prepare dinner for everyone and the wife was fine with this except she wanted to make the meat. So she prepared the meat and I prepared the rest. During the dinner everyone complimented the wife on the meat she had made. My mum then mentioned that my cousin was an excellent cook as well. I was to get nagged for an hour about this comment a few days later because my wife thought complimenting someone else’s cooking skills in her presence was a way of saying her skills were not good. It’s the sort of bizarre logic she used with a number of things. After dinner I took all the plates to the kitchen and in front of everyone she barked at me I hope you don’t expect me to do the dishes.

Next day not much was seen of the wife. She would lock herself away in the bedroom studying, barely acknowledging our guests. When she would talk to them it was usually short, sharp and terse.

My birthday rolled around and we all went out on a boat cruise. The night went down without incident or so I thought. During the night I was sitting next to the wife and said to her if she minded if I go talk with the guys as you do at such gatherings. She said it was ok. So all of us guys gathered and talked about sports and stuff. All the girls did the same thing. Next morning I would cop an earful from the wife for doing this. I was to find out later she had a very interesting conversation with the cousin which would explain why they didn’t bother contacting us in their final two days before they left. We all met at a restaurant the next day on my birthday proper to exchange gifts. Everybody had a gift and card for me except guess who. That’s right, the wife could not even be bothered getting me a lousy card.

Next day my mum put through a wash and decided to wash all my clothes at the same time. When the wife saw this she told the mum off and said that I was to wash my own clothes. Mum said if she chose to wash my clothes she would. I wasn’t there to witness this as I was down the supermarket but it would have been interesting. When I got back mum suggested to me we go out and leave the wife alone to study. While out the mum asked me if everything was ok between me and the wife and told me about the laundry incident. I said it wasn’t and just opened up. I had not opened up to anyone and suppressed so much and it was a relief to have someone to get everything off my chest with and did I unload. I would have spent about 2 hours with issue after issue with the wife, and the mum, while disgusted at the way the wife had been and was treating me, wasn’t really surprised by what she had witnessed in the last few days.

I went back to work the next day and the mum and aunt were due to fly out that afternoon. The wife had arranged to meet at lunchtime so we could buy a present for my mum’s birthday. It was a $250 necklace but when we went to draw the money out of savings she insisted we take $700 so she had some spending money in Russia. Didn’t feel like getting into a fight so I took the money out and gave it to her. She got the gift and we gave it to her at home just before they were due to go to the airport. The mum also had a gift for the wife. She gave the wife some very expensive perfume she bought going through the airport. When she gave it to her the first thing the wife said was “Is it fake?” My mum looked shocked and said of course not and the wife asked again, “No really, is it fake?”

With the mum now pissed off, she turned her focus onto my aunt. My aunt and my dad don’t get on and the aunt and she got stuck into her saying she was not allowed to say anything bad about my dad in mine or her presence again. After a little argument the aunt said she would never say anything bad about my dad again to her. The aunt though had made up her mind to never speak to the wife ever again after this trip. I headed back to work and the wife headed to the airport in a taxi.

When I got home that night, the wife told me the aunt started arguing with her in the taxi and she thought she was going to hit her. I said I would speak to the aunt and see what happened and she said I didn’t need to and should trust her. She then said we are family, just me and her, and that relatives are not a true part of your family. Later that evening I told her that I would not accompany her to the airport when she flew out on later that week because I had a flight 5 hours later. Her flight was at midnight and mine at 5am. Not an unreasonable request but to her it was disgusting to even consider this. We argued about this and she would not talk to me for 2 days until I said I would go to the airport with her.

It was the night before she was due to fly and the mum was home. I was interested to speak with the aunt and get her side however the wife intervened so they hung up. Once again an argument followed and another charming evening of silence followed. I decided I couldn’t even be bothered sleeping in the same bed as her so I went to sleep on the sofa. When she realised I was not coming to bed, she came in the lounge and barked at me to come to bed. I couldn’t be bothered arguing any more so I did. In bed, she started trying to be all sweet. She said darling, will you miss me when I am overseas, expecting me to say I will miss her heaps. I said to her straight out, “No. We need time apart” and she started sobbing expecting sympathy. At this point I was sick of her games so I just turned away and fell asleep.

Her day of departure came. There was no sense of sadness in the air from either of us that we would be separated for a month - just relief. I took her to the airport and I wished her a safe trip at the departure gate. I told her I placed a letter in her large luggage she should read when she gets to Russia. First thing she said is it isn’t going to upset me and ruin my holiday. I rolled my eyes and said to her just read it. The letter is not to upset you but to try and fix our marriage. The contents of the letter are below.

Offline downhearted

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2009, 02:51:39 AM »
Privet Dorogaya,

I am writing this letter to you to discuss our marriage and its future. Rather than confront you face to face with this I have written everything down here I wish to speak to you about. I have done this for a number of reasons. The first being I do not want this to turn into a yelling match. If I bought this up with you all we would do is end up screaming and yelling at each other and nothing would get resolved. The second is because it is written you can reflect upon what is written and things are not lost in translation. This will give you time to form a rational response instead of some quick nasty reply.

Darling, first off I want to say I love you and this is not supposed to be an attack on you. It is an attempt to save our marriage. We both know things have not been good between us lately. It has gotten so bad that if it continues like it has been then I cannot see a future together.

Things need to change in our marriage and there needs to be some major changes. When we spoke recently you pointed out how you had changed me in many ways for the better. When I mentioned I had changed you what you said is you have not changed at all. This is the problem. You need to make changes as well. It is hard to progress without change.

I have identified a number of areas I feel that need to change if we are to move forward in our marriage. I have listed them below.


Respect

I asked you around a month ago when we were arguing if you respected me and you went silent. I have suspected for a long time you have little respect for me and you proved that to me on this day. I am your husband and I expect your respect. I house, clothe and feed you and provide support for your mother. I show you respect and treat you with respect in the things you do. I expect the same in return.

If I say something I expect you to respect my decision. Not disregard it like you do now. I am a grown man and I can make decisions on my own. Decisions like choosing what I want to wear to the gym. You might have noticed I never go to the gym any more. It is because I do not like being told what to wear and being told I have to dress up in a jacket and long pants to walk for 15 seconds outside to the gym. This is one example of many. I know you think what you are doing is caring for me but some things you do are excessive and when I say I want to do something a different way I expect that decision to be respected. You may not agree with me in some decisions but you need to learn to live with this. I don’t agree with some things you do but I live with it because I respect your right to make your own decisions. I want you to respect my right to make my decisions going forward because I am sick of being dictated to. I managed to survive perfectly ok before I met you so I am capable of make my own decisions.

 
Household Chores

You have been gradually doing less and less and getting me to do more and more in this area. Despite this you still constantly complain I do not do enough. I would just like to clarify one point for you here. We are a single income family. A single income family consists of one person who earns all the money and pays all the bills and the other who looks after the house. My role is that of the breadwinner. Your role is that of the housewife. Like it or not this is your role.

Now I have sat back and copped a lot from you in this area. It seems a source of constant fighting between us and it needs to be resolved. Just because you may be busy it does not mean I am not. I spend 50 hours per week working to provide all of our finances. To expect me to come home from work and then have to wash, dry and iron all of my clothes is unreasonable and completely disrespectful to me. Should I demand you go out and work for 4 hours to contribute to our finances? I will help out from time to time with this but don’t expect it of me like a chore.

When it comes to cooking and the dishes, the fact you fail to acknowledge I contribute in this area at all is disgraceful. I do my fair share here and when you are busy getting ready for an exam or something I offer to cook and clean for you.

Going forward I will contribute to the cooking and cleaning in the same capacity I do now. I do a lot in this area despite you giving me no credit for what I do. I will not be doing my own laundry. It is disrespectful expecting me to do this. If you think this is unfair then find somebody who will house, clothe and feed you and do his own laundry. No Russian man would and you know this.


Egoism

I have sat back and copped a lot from you in this area. I am sick of you calling me an egoist. I am anything but. Would an egoist send your mum more than $10,000 over the last three and a half years? Would an egoist pay for 3 trips to Russia for you?

Every time our savings reach enough to buy a ticket to Russia, you insist on spending all that money for you and only you for a trip to Russia. That is being an egoist and thinking only of you. You complain we never go on holiday. Its not we, it is I. It is I who never goes on holiday. I have not had a decent holiday in the entire time we have been married. You have had four decent holidays of a month or more though. When I wanted to book a trip to see my Dad for four days your response to me was nothing short of disgusting. We had a big argument before you finally agreed to let me spend some of my tax bonus on my first overseas trip in 4 years. I found that extremely rude from someone who I just spent 5 times that amount for a trip to Russia a week earlier without any protest whatsoever. 

After that display I have made a decision that our savings will be spent on something for the both of us in future. There will be no more egoism in the way we spend our savings. The money I put into savings is for us, not you. It will be used for something for us, not you. If you wish to take trips to Russia for yourself then you can go out and find a part time job to pay for your trip.
 
Intimacy

We seem to be getting less and less intimate. I always seem to be the initiator as well. I am the one kissing you, not vice versa. Basically I am losing interest in intimacy because not much interest is being shown from your end. You might have noticed that I am going to bed later and we go to bed at different times as well. Basically I can’t be bothered trying to be intimate with you. It is because after constantly trying and having excuses thrown at me constantly eventually I just cant be bothered as I know I will most likely be ignored in my requests.

There is a saying, you can go to a well but if it is always dry, eventually you will stop going to it. You are the well and you have been dry for a long time. If you want a sex life in our marriage then I suggest you start showing some interest in this area. I suggest you start showing the initiative a lot more..


Where we live

You live abroad. You need to learn to accept this. After three years together you still have not fully embraced the country we live in. You tell me the only reason you are here is because of me. This is not good enough. You need to be in this country because of me and because you would like to be here and make a life abroad.

Yes, you are Russian and will always be Russian but you have chosen to live abroad. If we have children they will grow up in this country. I don’t want them to have a mother who is complaining all the time about how awful living abroad is and who thinks she need to return home every 6 to 9 months. This is something that really annoys me.

I would like to see you try and adjust better. Find groups or activities where you might like to participate. Trust me, it is for your own good. When you stopped helping out in Church and participating in the group things, if affected you in more ways than you seem to realise.


Attitude

This is one of the main things that bugs me about you now. If you would have displayed the attitude you have in the last 6 months four years ago I would have dropped you like a hot potato. I would have never married you. Lately you are forever moody. You can go from warm and loving to complete bitch in a blink of an eye. The way you scream at me over trivial things pisses me off. The way you will not talk to me for days when I don’t respond the way you like pisses me off. You are sulky, moody and bitchy when you don’t get things your own way. Life isn’t about getting everything you want all the time but you seem to think it is. You need to think more about others rather than yourself. 

Also you need to realise everyone is not out to get you. If someone praises someone else in your presence they are not saying you are bad. You try to read far too much into everything and are always looking at a negative angle. Try giving people the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming the worst and making baseless assumptions.

 
Summary

I want to start by saying that I love you. I have since we first met and still do to this day. If I didn’t love you I wouldn’t be making this attempt to save our marriage. I would just quit it. You have a lot of wonderful qualities and a number of aspects of my life have improved a lot from having you in it. However you have some qualities that are not so wonderful that seem to be getting worse with you.

You asked me why we don’t talk much any more. Well I have never been much of a talker  and you know this. However what I have found is in the conversations we have in the last six months we usually end up having an argument. The less I talk the less the likelihood of an argument. You have been very volatile these last few months so I have avoided talking with you because of this.

Dorogaya, I have sat back and let you walk all over me in a number of aspects in our relationship so I am partly to blame because of this but now is the time where changes must be made by you if we are to survive as a couple. Is there a future in our relationship? If the person I married 3 years ago returns there is. If the person who I have lived with these last 6 months returns there is no future. The ball is in your court. I have done what I can and been as patient as I possibly can but you just seem to get worse and become more bossy and demanding. The time for patience is over and it is time you changed your outlook on things and the way you treat me. 

I want you to spend the next month deciding what you really want in your life. Do you want to remain married to me and live abroad or do you want to remain in Russia? I know you love me but can you fully embrace life outside of Russia? Maybe you are someone who cannot live away from Russia and will always be conflicted living away from Russia. When we have children you will not be able to go running to Russia every 6-9 months. I hope you realise this. Sooner or later you are going to have to let go of Russia and embrace your new country.

I love you but things cannot continue to go on as they have been going on. Our marriage is self destructing and major changes need to be made to save it. They need to be made by you because whether you like it or not you are the main reason it is failing.

If you are willing to make these changes then I look forward to seeing you in July when you fly back home. If you decide your future is in Russia then I will understand. I will respect your decision whatever you choose.

I know this letter will upset you but the intention of it is not to upset you. It is an attempt to save a marriage which is failing. If things continue as they have in the last 6 months without change I see no future for us. I will speak to you regarding this after I get back from seeing Dad. Take that time to reflect on what I have written here.


Offline downhearted

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2009, 02:53:00 AM »
When she got the letter she sent me a text message. It went:

Hi Darling, how are you? I read your letter. You are right in many things. I would like to change myself. I don’t want to lose you and live without you. You are deeply in my heart. I LOVE YOU. Forgive me, I cant sleep or eat second night. I hope we can work things for better to go through this difficult time. I hold you tight.

I replied:

Dobra utra Dorogaya. I am back from overseas. My flight was good and so is Dad. My Dad says hello. I hope your flight went well. I am happy to hear you agree with most of what I wrote. I would like to talk to you tonight if possible about this. What time will you be home tonight?

She replied:

Darling, hi I am glad you arrived safe and everything is alright with you. I am having medical assistance for physical and emotional exhaustion and not able to talk at the present time because of my condition. If you want call me in about 2 weeks time.


This was 12 days ago and we have not spoken or texted each other since.

Since then I have discovered some more damning things. I discovered what was said between my wife and cousin. First off, my cousin is married to a man shorter than her. So the wife commented how could you marry someone shorter than you in a manner to suggest that because he was short he was inferior. She was insulted by this. The cousin asked the wife if she planned to have children and the wife said she never planned to have children. She did not want children because she did not want to move from where we live. She never wants to live in the suburbs again and she knows if we have a family I will move to the suburbs.

For me, the children thing came as a shock. The wife knows I want children and it was one of the key points about marrying her. To find out for 3 years she has never wanted children pisses me off no end.

So now I am left with the dilemma, give her a second chance or cut her loose 




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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2009, 03:24:58 AM »
A man marries a woman, hoping she never changes. But she always does.
A woman marries a man, hoping to change him, but he never does.

Its an old cliche, I agree. I see many good qualities in her, what you need to find out is where the bad mood + arguments are coming from. Is it simply an aversion to the new country or missing her friends, since a visit to Mother Russia seems to clear the air.

I suspect that if she starts to feel "at home" in her new country, without homesickness.. you will get your lovely wife back in a good mood. But if it stays like this any longer your marriage will come to an (ugly) end.

The not-wanting-children is a real deal-breaker. I think you must refresh her memory you will never live without children and expect her to be pregnant someday. I suspect that she does not want children NOW or WITH YOU. All women want children, but her instincs tell her to hold off now.

OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline Manny

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2009, 03:46:33 AM »
A well written tale.  tiphat

Do you want member input and feedback on this DH?
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline downhearted

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2009, 03:47:48 AM »
A well written tale.  tiphat

Do you want member input and feedback on this DH?

Yes Manny. Thats why I posted it here

Offline SimonUK

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2009, 03:54:50 AM »
A man marries a woman, hoping she never changes. But she always does.
A woman marries a man, hoping to change him, but he never does.

Very true! But usually very wrong.. people changes all the time, whether though circumstances, changes in those around them which spread like a ripple in a pond, or just because they are still growing.

To Downhearted -

I sympathise with your situation, I really do. You have summed up your choices perfectly; cut her loose or work at it. Whatever you choose to do, one of three things will happen;

You cut her loose and it's all over bar the shouting right now.
You work at it, give yourself a deadline, and if you can see no progress by that time, cut her loose.
You work at it, give yourself a deadline, she improves and you continue your marriage.

The option of ignoring what is going on you have obviously already discounted.  :)

In your situation I do not know what I would do. While I can sympathise with your situation, I cannot empathise with it as I have never been where you are now. I would suggest you give yourself a deadline, and try to work it out with her and see what happens. Whether that deadline is a year or 6 months is down to whatever you feel comfortable with, but it is very obvious you cannot continue for much longer the way you have been, and you know this already. You are already taking steps to resolve the situation one way or the other.

I believe you posted here as much to write it all down and get it off your chest as to ask for advice. That I have done in the past, and found it helps, in some way, to clarify the problem.

Markje has offered what I believe to be good advice; try to discover the root cause of her bad moods.

I wish you luck.

Offline anjutka

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2009, 04:20:05 AM »
hi....very interesting thoughts...,meaning-very open and goes from deep soul.....

first of all ,i always thinking-everything to the best :biggrin:with  that our life became more easy,at least for me  ;-))))and life always proves it

what is obvious for me(based on your story)
-she  dont love you - when woman love man everything what you missing and to what you paid attention are not exists(example with relatives,etc)
-when she married you ,probably she was under common impression that foreigners men are more reach (compare to her local))-from that comes demanding money for trip ,etc.....

About children.....dont expect from women that she ll tell to people around the real thoughts about it... she will tell it to her man,just man should ask  and discuss  deeper......


To my understanding -your letter is very good action....Only I worry that she  worry not about you and your marriage, but just about her future......

what else....i have a feeling that your marriage dont have future.....this your letter is mostly like a last  provment(?) .....meaning that  you ll expect big changes from her  after that and it never  happends.....    life.....

everyone deserve to be happy....but how difficult sometimes to make a next step...... :biggrin:

good luck!

1 Life is not rehearsal... 2 sorry for my english;-)) 3 Thinking only always positive way=be healthy and happy))))) 4yes, and I am 41 yo ;-))))))))))))) 5 In life there are no rules!!! 6 but he should not be older 45 yo )))) 7...? ;-)

Offline downhearted

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2009, 04:21:46 AM »
I suspect that if she starts to feel "at home" in her new country, without homesickness.. you will get your lovely wife back in a good mood. But if it stays like this any longer your marriage will come to an (ugly) end.

How long do you give someone before they accept their new home? Is 3 years an acceptable period?


The not-wanting-children is a real deal-breaker. I think you must refresh her memory you will never live without children and expect her to be pregnant someday. I suspect that she does not want children NOW or WITH YOU. All women want children, but her instincs tell her to hold off now.

Here-in lies the dilemma. Do I force an ultimatum on her to have a child with me when she doesnt want to have a child. I think what you suspect is also what I do

Offline downhearted

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2009, 04:29:51 AM »
hi....very interesting thoughts...,meaning-very open and goes from deep soul.....

first of all ,i always thinking-everything to the best :biggrin:with  that our life became more easy,at least for me  ;-))))and life always proves it

what is obvious for me(based on your story)
-she  dont love you - when woman love man everything what you missing and to what you paid attention are not exists(example with relatives,etc)
-when she married you ,probably she was under common impression that foreigners men are more reach (compare to her local))-from that comes demanding money for trip ,etc.....

About children.....dont expect from women that she ll tell to people around the real thoughts about it... she will tell it to her man,just man should ask  and discuss  deeper......


To my understanding -your letter is very good action....Only I worry that she  worry not about you and your marriage, but just about her future......

what else....i have a feeling that your marriage dont have future.....this your letter is mostly like a last  provment(?) .....meaning that  you ll expect big changes from her  after that and it never  happends.....    life.....

everyone deserve to be happy....but how difficult sometimes to make a next step...... :biggrin:

good luck!



Thanks Anjutka. Very good to get the perpective of a Russian woman. Interesting what you said about not loving me. My mum and aunt share the same opinion.

Offline anjutka

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2009, 04:33:14 AM »
yes,sometimes our mum can be  right :)i noticed that with my mum at least ;-))))  :biggrin:
1 Life is not rehearsal... 2 sorry for my english;-)) 3 Thinking only always positive way=be healthy and happy))))) 4yes, and I am 41 yo ;-))))))))))))) 5 In life there are no rules!!! 6 but he should not be older 45 yo )))) 7...? ;-)

Offline Manny

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2009, 04:34:59 AM »
I suspect that if she starts to feel "at home" in her new country, without homesickness.. you will get your lovely wife back in a good mood. But if it stays like this any longer your marriage will come to an (ugly) end.

How long do you give someone before they accept their new home? Is 3 years an acceptable period?

I would suggest three years is ample. I don't think this is so much about your country.

I want to read it all again tonight and give it some thought before proffering a substantive reply.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2009, 06:50:02 AM »

Here-in lies the dilemma. Do I force an ultimatum on her to have a child with me when she doesn't want to have a child. I think what you suspect is also what I do

DH,

I think you have handled this very well, if anything you have been far to lenient with her, but you have given her more than enough chances. If there are problems with your marriage now, and there obviously are, having a child is not the answer or a way of solving those problems, a child will probably only add to them infact.

Sadly I think it is obvious here that she does not love you, the fact that she has now sort of disappeared for 12 days+ without any contact whatsoever does not bode well too, no wife who loved their husband would do that without telling him upfront why she would be incommunicado.

I think the writing is on the wall here and I think you know that, will that leopard every change her spots, I doubt it very much.

Good luck
Chris
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Offline Jaime70068

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2009, 06:53:11 AM »
Downhearted

Cut your losses bro...

The signs have always been there, you just didn't pick up on them soon enough.

This same thing happened to me, only with an AW.
I was sad because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet. So I said: Got any shoes you're not using?

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2009, 07:23:25 AM »
DH,

It is impossible to give advice with confidence from merely reading a letter. So you should take all advice with a "grain of salt."

I would not give up so fast.  Any time trying to save a marriage is good time invested.  Here are some ideas:

~ Do try counseling
~ Become involved with her in the church
~ Realize that culture shock is a powerful force and yes, three years is just the beginning of adjustment
~ Try to make friends outside of the Russian community

I don't think your letter in the luggage was a good idea at all.  It came across as overly harsh to me, and something that should have been discussed face to face.  And it came after this:

She said darling, will you miss me when I am overseas, expecting me to say I will miss her heaps. I said to her straight out, “No. We need time apart” and she started sobbing expecting sympathy. At this point I was sick of her games so I just turned away and fell asleep.

That was NOT your finest moments, and makes me wonder if you understand women?  I can certainly understand the silent treatment she is giving you now after that parting episode from you.

Realize that she has experiences and perspectives on your relationship that differ from yours.  I suspect neither side is exactly the truth.   Marriage is difficult and takes hard work.  I think your MIL got you started off on a bad track, and I advise all men to beware of MILs who have indue influence on their daughters.

I think your chances of recovery are slim, but are still worth the time.

Good luck!
And I think it's going to be a long, long time...

Offline Jaime70068

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2009, 07:34:10 AM »
Once the sex life goes, it's all down hill from there.

This is what an American Woman would tell you in this situation....."I love you, but I'm not in love with you"

She will dump your ass as soon as a better prospect comes a calling.  That might be why she is "homesick".
I was sad because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet. So I said: Got any shoes you're not using?

Offline shakespear

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2009, 07:49:22 AM »
I want to read it all again tonight and give it some thought before proffering a substantive reply.

I think it's important to note we're only getting one side of the story here.  Her narrative of the last three years of marriage could read quite differently.
"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" - Katharine Hepburn

Offline Jaime70068

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2009, 07:55:20 AM »
I want to read it all again tonight and give it some thought before proffering a substantive reply.

I think it's important to note we're only getting one side of the story here.  Her narrative of the last three years of marriage could read quite differently.

I think y'all are giving her too much credit.

She cut off contact with friends...why?  Preparation for leaving.  It's easier to not have to say goodbye

She is starting conflict with his parents...why?  She's projecting

She get's homesick...why?  She probably has a man back in the homeland.

She doesn't initiate intimacy....why?  This is the one that hurts....she doesn't love you.

I was sad because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet. So I said: Got any shoes you're not using?

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2009, 08:10:23 AM »
I want to read it all again tonight and give it some thought before proffering a substantive reply.

I think it's important to note we're only getting one side of the story here.  Her narrative of the last three years of marriage could read quite differently.

She doesn't initiate intimacy....why?  This is the one that hurts....she doesn't love you.


this last one isn't neccessarily true. I've been with AW and RW (probably more RW than any of you) and I can say that there is a difference. AW in general are more aggressive in sex and will initiate it when they are in the mood. In contrast, RW (on average) are more submissive in bed and will wait for a man to initiate intimacy and just "be a man and take them" so to speak.

Offline Jaime70068

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2009, 08:22:54 AM »
I want to read it all again tonight and give it some thought before proffering a substantive reply.

I think it's important to note we're only getting one side of the story here.  Her narrative of the last three years of marriage could read quite differently.

She doesn't initiate intimacy....why?  This is the one that hurts....she doesn't love you.




this last one isn't neccessarily true. I've been with AW and RW (probably more RW than any of you) and I can say that there is a difference. AW in general are more aggressive in sex and will initiate it when they are in the mood. In contrast, RW (on average) are more submissive in bed and will wait for a man to initiate intimacy and just "be a man and take them" so to speak.

That's why I didn't write SEX, and wrote intimacy.  She doesn't even KISS him.

Genuine intimacy in human relationships requires dialogue, transparency, vulnerability and reciprocity.
I was sad because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet. So I said: Got any shoes you're not using?

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2009, 08:38:27 AM »
Unsteady job situation, financial stresses, relocation.  Keeping a relationship together is tough enough without all these, maybe the opposite of what she expected, not to mention adding kids into the mix.  OTOH RW don't seem to be like puppies at all, blowing WM expectations right out of the water.

Maybe she is finding out that things aren't that different 'elsewhere'?

Look at the positives:
she did work when necessary.
she did come back after her visits home with a good mindset,
a desire for children expressed,
acceptance that many things need to be resolved.

At the very bottom of the pile sounds like you simply don't trust her and she feels it.  Almost all relationship issues start with trust issues.

A letter in her luggage does seem to indicate communication problems.

A lot of 'me' on both sides.

All in all a tough cat to skin.

Offline Jaime70068

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2009, 08:54:46 AM »
She worked at a job for 9 weeks

She has spent more time back in Russia than she has working

This is a bad apple

Quote
Darling, hi I am glad you arrived safe and everything is alright with you. I am having medical assistance for physical and emotional exhaustion and not able to talk at the present time because of my condition. If you want call me in about 2 weeks time.


This was 12 days ago and we have not spoken or texted each other since
.

Does this sound like a woman that gives a rat's ass about her marriage or husband?

Quit being apologists for this woman.

I was sad because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet. So I said: Got any shoes you're not using?

Offline b.j.

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2009, 08:56:07 AM »
Unsteady job situation, financial stresses, relocation.  Keeping a relationship together is tough enough without all these, maybe the opposite of what she expected, not to mention adding kids into the mix.  OTOH RW don't seem to be like puppies at all, blowing WM expectations right out of the water.

Maybe she is finding out that things aren't that different 'elsewhere'?

Look at the positives:
she did work when necessary.
she did come back after her visits home with a good mindset,
a desire for children expressed,
acceptance that many things need to be resolved.

At the very bottom of the pile sounds like you simply don't trust her and she feels it.  Almost all relationship issues start with trust issues.

A letter in her luggage does seem to indicate communication problems.

A lot of 'me' on both sides.


All in all a tough cat to skin.


My feelings, exactly.  This is not a one sided issue.  The guy needs to look at himself in the mirror.

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Re: For better or worse, in my case worse
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2009, 09:56:51 AM »
She worked at a job for 9 weeks

She has spent more time back in Russia than she has working

This is a bad apple

Quote
Darling, hi I am glad you arrived safe and everything is alright with you. I am having medical assistance for physical and emotional exhaustion and not able to talk at the present time because of my condition. If you want call me in about 2 weeks time.


This was 12 days ago and we have not spoken or texted each other since
.

Does this sound like a woman that gives a rat's ass about her marriage or husband?

Quit being apologists for this woman.


In the end we can all only stab in the dark.

Quote
I decided I couldn’t even be bothered sleeping in the same bed as her so I went to sleep on the sofa. When she realised I was not coming to bed, she came in the lounge and barked at me to come to bed. I couldn’t be bothered arguing any more so I did. In bed, she started trying to be all sweet. She said darling, will you miss me when I am overseas, expecting me to say I will miss her heaps. I said to her straight out, “No. We need time apart” and she started sobbing expecting sympathy. At this point I was sick of her games so I just turned away and fell asleep.

Her day of departure came. There was no sense of sadness in the air from either of us that we would be separated for a month - just relief.

Patience obviously ran out, (ask jb about patience). 

Apologies? -naa.. maybe instead maybe the flip side of the coin.

He wanted time apart, she agreed and said call me in a couple weeks when I'm maybe feeling better about this whole deal and have had some time to reflect.  Clearly it's up to him to make the first step.


 

 

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