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Author Topic: Property Investment in the FSU  (Read 5519 times)

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Offline Manny

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Property Investment in the FSU
« on: April 12, 2007, 11:39:58 AM »
I was hoping to start a conversation about property investment in the FSU/Eastern Europe, and moreover, where the current opportunities lie. My general thoughts are below, feel free to disagree/argue or add other ideas, assuming of course that you have actually been!

Russia - Risky due to the government, the corruption, and land title problems. Rental income low so capital appreciation would be the factor you would be looking for rather than income. Mortgages only beginning there so all cash deals are necessary.

Baltics - Estonia & Latvia it seems you needed to be on the bandwagon a while ago, if you are not in now it is risky to start there. Lithuiania however seems to be the poor relation in the Baltics, the EU FSU member in the shadows, I think opportunity may lie there.

Ukraine - I have never been but I hear prices have doubled in a year so clarification on the scene there would be nice from anyone with info?

Poland - I think is seldom considered, all the attention goes to surrounding countries, as with Lithuiania. Anyone any thoughts on Poland?

Bulgaria/Romania/Croatia/Czech - The UK papers have been shouting about investment there for a while, when everyone is in a place the smart money is selling so too late I think.

Slovakia/Hungary - I dont know - does anyone else?

Belorus - I would suspect is a similar business enviroment to Russia, anyone know?

I am thinking of Lithuania or Poland as the places where may be worthy of a speculative foray, they look like the lower priced seldom touted investment places.

Kaliningrad may be worth a look, although Russian territory, they do have a coastline and presumeably beaches. Anyone know?
I apologise.
And so he should.........

Offline PlumberMan

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Re: Property Investment in the FSU
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2007, 05:05:13 PM »
Manny Interesting subject! We that have an effection for the FSU and financial resources useally want to invest in our second homeland. I belive  all the countrys listed have pros and cons, the key is to have someone you can trust locally that is savey to the local scene. Easyer said than done.

Offline Manny

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Re: Property Investment in the FSU
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2007, 03:55:18 AM »
We are thinking of a piece of land in Russia, just as an investment, something to buy and leave for a couple of years while it doubles in price. Anyone experience of buying land in Russia?

I apologise.
And so he should.........


Offline Chris

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Re: Property Investment in the FSU
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2007, 04:16:08 AM »
OK I am not asking about buying, but does anyone have any experience of selling a property in Russia, I would like to know what the situation is.

General Info and Items I need Help on asap.

Apartment to sell is in Ufa

Need Russian legal speaking lawyer preferably UK based who knows about Russian property law

Transfer of funds from Russia to UK ( Bank to Bank is OK but fees seem rather exhorbitant) does anyone know any other totally legal ways?

Any advice on  possible Russian Tax liabilities

Any other advice from someone who has experience in these matters.

Early enquiries have indicated to me that the legal documents can be signed and notorised at the Russian Embassy in London, which saves a trip to Russia, this is a help as a trip to Russia to sort this out is out of the question at this time.

I have UK based accountants already working on some of this, but it is not their speciality, I can find the information myself, but I could do with it quickly, so any help is appreciated.

Manny, just so you are aware, prices of property in Ufa (specifically) are dropping, they have dropped nearly 30% in the last few months and have now slowed down but are still going down by a couple of percent a month, the advice given by local Real Estate Agents is to sell in the next few months. This is advice given by trusted REA's that have been known to the owner for many many years and also by relations still living locally.

Thanks for anyones help
Chris

PS if someone wants to split this off into a separate thread, please do so.

Offline Chris

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Re: Property Investment in the FSU
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2007, 04:37:52 AM »
I have some opportunities which I can pass on, but I have done no DD on these personally and not invested myself at present. However, they come from respected people in the International Property Investment Arena. I can give you more information if anyone is interested, but NOTE! it is up to you whether you invest or not and I am not linked to any of the facilitators of these investments and cannot be held responsible for any investments you may decide to make.

This is a syndicate type property investment and is actually run and administered by Scott Huggins of BBC TV fame.

Brief Details...if you want to know more I can give you more info, or the contact details of Scott.

  • Land and villas in Island off the coast of Croatia, average return 49% over 6 months
  • Seed capital deal in Argentina with 100% return in 12 months, plus a percentage shareholding
  • A co- branded deal in Morrocco building a Hotel and resort complex with a 200% projected return in 18 months

There are others also, the minimum investment to get in on this syndicate is under £50k

This is not normally something I would discuss on an open forum, but they are looking for people and the take up rate is normally very quick and I do know of the track record of this group which is very good.

Offline marine53

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Re: Property Investment in the FSU
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2007, 09:09:03 PM »
I have talked to my Elena about property in the Moscow Region.  She bought her flat about 7 years ago at a price of $13,000.   Now is is worth about $140,000.  I think a good investment she made.  BUT, after talking to her, she has told me that she feels that there is going to be another  collapse very soon.  Many of the New rich russians are spending money like crazy.   I think I would stay away from Moscow at this time.  It would be better to buy after the collapse.   If it really happens!!!

Offline Chris

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Re: Property Investment in the FSU
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2007, 02:29:15 AM »
I have talked to my Elena about property in the Moscow Region.  She bought her flat about 7 years ago at a price of $13,000.   Now is is worth about $140,000.  I think a good investment she made.  BUT, after talking to her, she has told me that she feels that there is going to be another  collapse very soon.  Many of the New rich russians are spending money like crazy.   I think I would stay away from Moscow at this time.  It would be better to buy after the collapse.   If it really happens!!!

I was in Moscow a few weeks ago and a 2 room apartment is going for around $120K to $150K so her figure is bang on. I was also told by a number of locals etc that there is a collapse on the way and it is already happening in other cities, Ufa being one example.

A slump of possibly 30% in a matter of months is a big loss!  It may not be as large as this in Moscow, but it still could be significant and any loss is still a loss!

Offline Manny

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Re: Property Investment in the FSU
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2007, 12:56:19 PM »
Quote from: chrismc
Any advice on  possible Russian Tax liabilities

There is a guy on another forum who is well clued up on this, I shot him a link to this conversation.
I apologise.
And so he should.........

Offline Chris

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Re: Property Investment in the FSU
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2007, 01:01:08 PM »
Quote from: chrismc
Any advice on  possible Russian Tax liabilities

There is a guy on another forum who is well clued up on this, I shot him a link to this conversation.

Thanks Manny...any help is appreciated.

Offline vox11

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Re: Property Investment in the FSU
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2007, 09:47:38 AM »
OK I am not asking about buying, but does anyone have any experience of selling a property in Russia, I would like to know what the situation is.

General Info and Items I need Help on asap.

Apartment to sell is in Ufa

Need Russian legal speaking lawyer preferably UK based who knows about Russian property law

Transfer of funds from Russia to UK ( Bank to Bank is OK but fees seem rather exhorbitant) does anyone know any other totally legal ways?


If you sell it in 2007,  and the owner of it will not be a taxation resident of Russian Federation
as of  2007 year,  he will be taxed at 30% rate. To become a resident, and pay 13% ( or 0, if flat was possessed for more that 3 years) , flat owner should live in Russia for more than 183 days during 2007.

I don't if HM decide to charge you additionally ( http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pdfs/ir20.htm )

What are charges for bank transfers?

If you open an account in Russian bank, and withdraw money from an ATM in UK,
what will be the fees? Even in infamous Citibank it is free( $5000 daily withdrawal max ), and bank to bank fee is $300 max.

Offline Chris

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Re: Property Investment in the FSU
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2007, 12:07:49 PM »
Thanks Vox for that, some of it certainly helps and gives me a bit to work on.

Offline IresQ U

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Re: Property Investment in the FSU
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2007, 11:36:17 PM »
I have considered making an investment in a smaller city.  Funny thing is it appears to me that a similar thing is happening in this city as what happend in the US.  Suburb land prices are rising faster than inner city.  I did get the feeling that there is some "irrational exuberance" in the real estate market there.  The general answer I received when talking to REA and investors there is that since the mortgage market is just beginning it will fuel further escalation in prices.  These people have a hard time believing prices could decline, hope they are not in for a big surprise.  I would be interested to know why insiders in Ufa feel is the reason for the recent decline?  Also is the land just outside the city declining?

Offline Manny

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Re: Property Investment in the FSU
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2007, 12:54:26 AM »
Going back to Lithuania for a moment.............

I was looking at this: http://arc-property.co.uk/BajoraHills.php?email or something similar.

Comments welcome.
I apologise.
And so he should.........

Offline lordtiberius

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Re: Property Investment in the FSU
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2012, 01:52:20 AM »
We are thinking of a piece of land in Russia, just as an investment, something to buy and leave for a couple of years while it doubles in price. Anyone experience of buying land in Russia?

Did you ever buy it?

Offline nicknick

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Re: Property Investment in the FSU
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2012, 03:34:15 AM »
We are thinking of a piece of land in Russia, just as an investment, something to buy and leave for a couple of years while it doubles in price. Anyone experience of buying land in Russia?

Did you ever buy it?


I notice that you've asked this question on a couple of different threads.

There are no problems with purchasing particular types of land.  There was a thread about this earlier:-

However, as long as land isn't designated as agricultural land then you're free to own it yourself.

There are various types of land designation in Russia.  If you are looking to buy land to build a house then you really need to look for land that's designated as ИЖС «для индивидуального жилищного строительства» - for Individual Housing Construction.

There are other ways, for example some agricultural land can be designated for the building of dachas but, I really would suggest, that if you're looking to buy land in Russia that you stick to ИЖС land and leave all the bothers of trying to change land registration from one type to another type to the locals.