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Author Topic: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women  (Read 51763 times)

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Offline matt

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2009, 03:10:57 PM »
http://www.medindia.com/news/Women-Prefers-Intelligent-and-Attractive-Men-as-Bedmates-42583-1.

htmhttp://hotair.com/archives/2007/07/09/bombshell-women-find-muscular-men-attractive/

Offline Manny

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2009, 03:49:21 PM »
Quote from: matt
I'm saying many women forego sexual attraction for security. It's not uncommon for a woman to marry a much older man for security and then screw around with the poolboy, personal trainer,kids coach. Ironically, most of the guys they fool around with have 2 things in common. Youth and looks.

Those are women who "settled" and later became unhappy. Western women do that too. What has this to do with black men?
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Offline matt

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2009, 04:44:53 PM »
Quote from: matt
I'm saying many women forego sexual attraction for security. It's not uncommon for a woman to marry a much older man for security and then screw around with the poolboy, personal trainer,kids coach. Ironically, most of the guys they fool around with have 2 things in common. Youth and looks.

Those are women who "settled" and later became unhappy. Western women do that too. What has this to do with black men?


 jack stated RW would not marry black men because it is not socially acceptable. Some have said they will have sex with black men out of curiosity of sexual attraction, but nothing more.

 I say there are a lot of people who should not be too happy RW will marry a man who is much older or not physically appealing to them as I think that is not a good marriage in the long run.

   Given a choice  I would rather be a black man who was thought as sexually exotic or appealing then a man who married a beautiful woman who has no sexual hunger for me. But rather for my wallet and the security I offer. For some people that works. As long as there is 1 person in the union who looks at sex as a pleasure. It matters not if the other sees it as her duty and a chore.

   As with someone accusing me of not knowing women, that is not the case. I have dated many women foreign and otherwise and currently involved with a Czech girl in the U.S.

 Women do want it all. Security  a man who they find sexually appealing and one who is financially secure. The more beautiful she is, the higher her expectations.. Women want men other women want. As one women I know stated, A woman who wants a man other women do not find appealing either has low self esteem, or she cannot attract that kind of man. That is why O go to the gym. tiphat


Offline matt

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2009, 06:48:52 PM »
Quote
Truth is women are shallow.

Don't think you've traveled much yet.  Certainly haven't met my wife and she's typical RW in many ways.  I know of other men's wives on this forum and elsewhere, and "shallow" is not even on the same planet with many of these ladies.

If you think that doing what is best for children, securing your financial future, etc is shallow then you're on very different track than most men.  If a man works hard and provides a decent retirement for he and his wife, raises his children to be responsible and honest, and serves his community, do you think he's shallow because he didn't spend that time off chasing every skirt that came down the street?

I think that would be more along the definition of "shallow."

 Shallow to me also means marrying for financial security and putting your sexual preference on the side. A woman or man who has to make love to a husband or wife they find sexually not to their taste is pretty shallow.

 If not what do you call men who are in Spain or Egypt or Mexico or whereever who marry women old enough to be their grandmothers for  security. Should we not think those men are being shallow or greedy when they forego sexual chemistry for security.

   Sexuality is a very human emotion. Both men and women need to have a strong sexual attraction to the person who they marry. Financial security should not be the only aim. You can get both.

 Reminds me of the song

"Lying eyes" A rich old man,she won't have to worry"


Same for a woman by the way.



Offline iheartrw

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2009, 07:56:40 PM »
Quote
Truth is women are shallow.

Don't think you've traveled much yet.  Certainly haven't met my wife and she's typical RW in many ways.  I know of other men's wives on this forum and elsewhere, and "shallow" is not even on the same planet with many of these ladies.

If you think that doing what is best for children, securing your financial future, etc is shallow then you're on very different track than most men.  If a man works hard and provides a decent retirement for he and his wife, raises his children to be responsible and honest, and serves his community, do you think he's shallow because he didn't spend that time off chasing every skirt that came down the street?

I think that would be more along the definition of "shallow."

 Shallow to me also means marrying for financial security and putting your sexual preference on the side. A woman or man who has to make love to a husband or wife they find sexually not to their taste is pretty shallow.

 If not what do you call men who are in Spain or Egypt or Mexico or whereever who marry women old enough to be their grandmothers for  security. Should we not think those men are being shallow or greedy when they forego sexual chemistry for security.

   Sexuality is a very human emotion. Both men and women need to have a strong sexual attraction to the person who they marry. Financial security should not be the only aim. You can get both.

 Reminds me of the song

"Lying eyes" A rich old man,she won't have to worry"


Same for a woman by the way.



Your argument is too shallow :D  You put forth beauty vs. wealth and argue that women want both and should get both.  If we lived in Lake Wobegon, perhaps.  But we all make compromises and adults usually realize that those two criteria are not the end all to relationships. 

Is money important?  Yes!  Is being attracted to your spouse important?  Yes! 

How about loyalty?  Faithfulness?  Commitment?  Support?  Traditional values?  Believing in the institution of marriage?

Your world is a valueless one, where adults wander like spoiled children looking for perfection in their spouses.  In the real world, people age and become less physically attractive.  Should a man of wealth divorce his wife because she's no longer a hotty? 

I do agree with the underlying current of your posts though, AW have ruined relationships in America.  Where as you take a wealth-beauty trade off, I assume that has always existed.  What's changed in the last two generations is not the wealth-beauty trade off but is instead a change of values.  Our biology hasn't changed, our society has.  Specifically, women have rejected the traditional family and destroyed the institution of marriage for the sake of 'Having it all'.  They've followed your prescription...

Is it no wonder that the majority of men searching for women abroad say they're looking for a 'traditional woman'? 




Online andrewfi

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2009, 03:16:12 AM »
iheartrw ~ Hmmm... let's see.

So, why is it that women in foreign facing marriage agancies are there?
After all, they can find 'love' anywhere, right?

Women and men are seeking a package, as much as they can get for as little as they can offer. The package contains many things, security, money, respect, freedom to grow, standard of living, sexual attraction and out of those things love might be expected to grow. Love does not exist in a vacuum, there are reasons why we love and some of those reasons are in my list.

The balance of the list may change from person to person and both men and women will compromise upon both the balance and value of the package. All the airyfairy feather up the arse words you used in your post flow from having the things in my list.

Of course women (and men) make bad choices, we think we will be happy with our choice and find afterward that we are not. Marriage is not like a shop, we can not take our new dress back and get a refund or exchange so we needs must find other solutions. When a man (or woman) indulges in an affair it is ALWAYS to replace something missing in the relationship. I do not think anyone has a covert affair for no reason at all.

Remember that among most of the women you meet in agencies, at least the ones actually planning to marry some relatively unknown foreign dude, you are the rich guy, even if you do not think you are. YOU are why they are in the agency, to make their lives better, more comfortable, more secure and if everything goes well she will come to love you.
Rich people fall in love faster than poor people because love is a self actualisation aspect of our personality. We rich folks already have the rest of the stuff: food, housing, education, satisfying work, leisure and the ability to use it. Poor folks do not, so they must be satisfied that these needs are met and then love can grow.

Anyway, as to black blokes, and white birds, all I can say is when you are in these parts, take a look. Take some time (whoops, sorry almost none of you have that resource!)
You will see a willingness on the part of some to experiment and an unwillingness to form long term bonds.
And most importantly we should remember that this is not a black/white thing. In truth msot women in any country are not really interested in marriage to a foreign bloke, especially if they must move country and the bloke speaks not their lingo.
We foreign blokes are attractive to a very small slice of our host community and black guys simply have a harder time of it. I'd suggest the same situation if one were in black Africa seeking a woman. Only a few women would want to be seen with a white foreigner and even fewer would marry one and I'll lay good money that only the poorest would actually export themselves in marriage.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline iheartrw

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2009, 07:20:41 AM »

Of course women (and men) make bad choices, we think we will be happy with our choice and find afterward that we are not. Marriage is not like a shop, we can not take our new dress back and get a refund or exchange so we needs must find other solutions. When a man (or woman) indulges in an affair it is ALWAYS to replace something missing in the relationship. I do not think anyone has a covert affair for no reason at all.


I'm uncertain as to what your point is in the first few paragraphs.  As I read it, we are in agreement.  If you reread my previous post, it was about the fact that we, as adults, learn to compromise.  For most people we don't "Have it all", and that this attitude is both childish and destructive.  In addition, I introduced other factors for choosing a mate and pointed out that the spouse we choose is not only on a beauty or wealth criteria.

I am under no illusion that wealth is an important driver for women in their mate selection.  I also think it is biological and agree with you in that men from the west do have an advantage in FSU marriage markets due to that wealth.   

As to the quote, if one has large numbers of divorce, marriage is in fact like a shop.  That has been and is the concern of many.  One can not make a successful society from a serial monogamy mating culture.  What point is there of marriage if either party can unilaterally end the contract for any reason?  Why would either party invest into a 4 year marriage the same as what one would if they were in a 20 year marriage?  Would they have children if they expected to divorce in 4 years?  What would one expect in such an environment?  Well we have had decreasing marriage trends and increasing cohabitation trends...

I would also point out that affairs are 'natural'.  What is referred to as Extra Pair Coupling is common enough.  But again, values come to play and affairs are nearly universally condemned.   I do not know if a beauty mismatch between spouses would increase or decrease the probabilities of an affair.  Ceteris paribus I would agree, but that would only be true if you had a mono factor mating criteria.  Consider the large numbers of women who claim to have had an affair coupled with 1/10 children not being their fathers and one can see why societies try to minimize and shame those who 'cheat'.  After all jealousy is a biological adaptation as well.   Interesting enough, women cheat more and are attracted to higher 'beauty' men when they are ovulating. 


Offline matt

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2009, 08:57:03 AM »



[/quote]
[/quote]

Your argument is too shallow :D  You put forth beauty vs. wealth and argue that women want both and should get both.  If we lived in Lake Wobegon, perhaps.  But we all make compromises and adults usually realize that those two criteria are not the end all to relationships. 

Is money important?  Yes!  Is being attracted to your spouse important?  Yes! 

How about loyalty?  Faithfulness?  Commitment?  Support?  Traditional values?  Believing in the institution of marriage?

Your world is a valueless one, where adults wander like spoiled children looking for perfection in their spouses.  In the real world, people age and become less physically attractive.  Should a man of wealth divorce his wife because she's no longer a hotty? 

I do agree with the underlying current of your posts though, AW have ruined relationships in America.  Where as you take a wealth-beauty trade off, I assume that has always existed.  What's changed in the last two generations is not the wealth-beauty trade off but is instead a change of values.  Our biology hasn't changed, our society has.  Specifically, women have rejected the traditional family and destroyed the institution of marriage for the sake of 'Having it all'.  They've followed your prescription...

Is it no wonder that the majority of men searching for women abroad say they're looking for a 'traditional woman'? 




[/quote]

 My world is not a shallow one. It is realistic. Most men do not travel to get traditional women. Their reasons are shallow. The majority will go for beauty and youth. There are plenty of traditional women in the U.S.

  Beauty and youth does attract us to foreign countries. But many men overstep their league and expect love.

 I am saying 1st and foremost women fall in love with their ears. When there is no common language that makes it much more difficult. Beautiful young women also have expectations. I have spoken to many foreign women who are sick of agencies and the type of American men who write to them. many much older,obese or just plain players or nuts.

    This endeavor would be very good if there was not so much shallowness involved. men who are delusional and want Barbies. Women who are delusional and want Donald Trump. Like goes to like.


  I have traveled extensively and know many foreign women. I also have remained friends with a few. 2 here who married for "security" also.

 A friend of mine came to visit over the Christmas Holidays. He married a girl from the Philippines who never had a bathroom before. Now 2 years later she is complaining they need to move out of their house because it only has 1 bathroom. SHOCKER! But her expectations are higher now and I see her head reeling. She never said "thank you" when I paid for our dinner even though I took them to a nice restaurant in Beverly Hills. All she couls say about Los Angeles was it was dirty and not as pretty as her neighborhood.

   Women are women everywhere. Everyone wants the whole enchilada. The older she is, the more realistic she will be(that is unless you are some of the grandma's searching for young blood in foreign countries). Most men lose their ability to be realistic as they age. Their ego takes over and they believe their accomplishments will be a great substitute for sexual attraction. They then look at a women who can be their daughters age and think they can give her a great life. She may see that too. But like many young PEOPLE married to much older people sacrificing their sexual attraction for security gets old. I would say most will be apt to cheat after a few years as you cannot control attraction and it will be difficult for a beautiful young woman married to a much older man to resist a young man with a great smile and great body. Perfect example,Larry King's wife and Hugh Hefner's girls. The lure of money made them want to be involved with the older man. But the lure of sexuality with younger man was their downfall.
 

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2009, 08:57:44 AM »
Quote
Most men do not travel to get traditional women. Their reasons are shallow. The majority will go for beauty and youth.


Matt, something we agree on.  Generally WM have no idea of what makes a "traditional" Russian woman and upon meeting one, if so lucky, quickly move on to a lady more liberal/Western.  The courtship period would be too long for most Western men and the waiting for sex too long for most WM also.

But it sure sounds nice back in the West when explaining to friends and family why they traveled halfway around the world for a wife.   :)

I don't always agree with our friend Andrew's dirty barrel theory, but will admit that most truly "traditional" RW don't sign up at marriage agencies either, so when agencies speak of coming to the FSU to get a traditional wife, they're selling something which is really not on the menu.

OTOH, I know lots of WM, including many here, who have found excellent wives and so neither does that discount the value of a Russian wife.  If they find shared values, true love and compatability, who cares about how truly "traditional" they are?

Offline iheartrw

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2009, 03:32:45 PM »



[/quote]

Your argument is too shallow :D  You put forth beauty vs. wealth and argue that women want both and should get both.  If we lived in Lake Wobegon, perhaps.  But we all make compromises and adults usually realize that those two criteria are not the end all to relationships. 

Is money important?  Yes!  Is being attracted to your spouse important?  Yes! 

How about loyalty?  Faithfulness?  Commitment?  Support?  Traditional values?  Believing in the institution of marriage?

Your world is a valueless one, where adults wander like spoiled children looking for perfection in their spouses.  In the real world, people age and become less physically attractive.  Should a man of wealth divorce his wife because she's no longer a hotty? 

I do agree with the underlying current of your posts though, AW have ruined relationships in America.  Where as you take a wealth-beauty trade off, I assume that has always existed.  What's changed in the last two generations is not the wealth-beauty trade off but is instead a change of values.  Our biology hasn't changed, our society has.  Specifically, women have rejected the traditional family and destroyed the institution of marriage for the sake of 'Having it all'.  They've followed your prescription...

Is it no wonder that the majority of men searching for women abroad say they're looking for a 'traditional woman'? 




[/quote]

 My world is not a shallow one. It is realistic. Most men do not travel to get traditional women. Their reasons are shallow. The majority will go for beauty and youth. There are plenty of traditional women in the U.S.

  Beauty and youth does attract us to foreign countries. But many men overstep their league and expect love.

 I am saying 1st and foremost women fall in love with their ears. When there is no common language that makes it much more difficult. Beautiful young women also have expectations. I have spoken to many foreign women who are sick of agencies and the type of American men who write to them. many much older,obese or just plain players or nuts.

    This endeavor would be very good if there was not so much shallowness involved. men who are delusional and want Barbies. Women who are delusional and want Donald Trump. Like goes to like.


  I have traveled extensively and know many foreign women. I also have remained friends with a few. 2 here who married for "security" also.

 A friend of mine came to visit over the Christmas Holidays. He married a girl from the Philippines who never had a bathroom before. Now 2 years later she is complaining they need to move out of their house because it only has 1 bathroom. SHOCKER! But her expectations are higher now and I see her head reeling. She never said "thank you" when I paid for our dinner even though I took them to a nice restaurant in Beverly Hills. All she couls say about Los Angeles was it was dirty and not as pretty as her neighborhood.

   Women are women everywhere. Everyone wants the whole enchilada. The older she is, the more realistic she will be(that is unless you are some of the grandma's searching for young blood in foreign countries). Most men lose their ability to be realistic as they age. Their ego takes over and they believe their accomplishments will be a great substitute for sexual attraction. They then look at a women who can be their daughters age and think they can give her a great life. She may see that too. But like many young PEOPLE married to much older people sacrificing their sexual attraction for security gets old. I would say most will be apt to cheat after a few years as you cannot control attraction and it will be difficult for a beautiful young woman married to a much older man to resist a young man with a great smile and great body. Perfect example,Larry King's wife and Hugh Hefner's girls. The lure of money made them want to be involved with the older man. But the lure of sexuality with younger man was their downfall.
 
[/quote]


It doesn't have to be beauty vs. traditional, it can be both.  Everything else being equal, I do believe that beauty is the initial primary interest.   In the study I referenced before on speed dating, what people say is the most important things they are looking for are not necessarily how they actually behave.

But you need to take that with a grain of salt.  Yes beauty is important for men, but it does not mean that other factors do not come to play outside of the few minutes given to speed date.

I think one can argue that there is a self selection bias in the men who even consider this.  Whether we take into account the 'sales literature' from agencies or we look at the discussion forums, the men do appear to be from the right side of the political spectrum.  For those who are not familiar with American politics, the right is associated with Republicans, Libertarians and Social Conservatives.  The left is associated with Democrats, Socialists and Green movements.  I think it would be safe to say that international marriage would be considered as human trafficking by the left and in fact one sees the most aggressive legislation on this subject by Democrats.

But who knows?  I don't have any concrete evidence, only circumstantial.  I don't see where one can argue though that the men seeking foreign brides are more liberal in their notions of family formation.

It does sound like there are a fair number of misfits but I don't know if this is just a stereo type or if it's true.  Nor do I know if the rate of misfits is more than the general population.

I would point out that Elena's statistics showing that the men are better educated and in normal physical shape; unlike the the stereotype of the 'loser' that is engaged in this.   Also, one hears about these huge age differences but i've seen different polls suggesting it's less than 10 years, which is completely normal.  Other polls show the average income is much higher than the general population.  Other polls indicate relatively similar divorce rates and some much lower.  I think there is a lot of self selection bias in these polls but one thing I think is certain is that one can not catagorically say that this is a case of losers buying wives.  In fact, if one goes by the success stories posted by agencies, I think one would be hard pressed to be able to spot those couples from the general population.


Offline Manny

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2009, 04:29:55 PM »
IheartRW, I see you struggling with quote boxes. They work like this:

Code: [Select]
[quote=NAMEOFPOSTERHERE]
Text you want to quote here
[/quote]

Which would then look like this:

Quote from: NAMEOFPOSTERHERE

Text you want to quote here
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline matt

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2009, 06:32:22 PM »

 



It does sound like there are a fair number of misfits but I don't know if this is just a stereo type or if it's true.  Nor do I know if the rate of misfits is more than the general population.

I would point out that Elena's statistics showing that the men are better educated and in normal physical shape; unlike the the stereotype of the 'loser' that is engaged in this.   Also, one hears about these huge age differences but i've seen different polls suggesting it's less than 10 years, which is completely normal.  Other polls show the average income is much higher than the general population.  Other polls indicate relatively similar divorce rates and some much lower.  I think there is a lot of self selection bias in these polls but one thing I think is certain is that one can not catagorically say that this is a case of losers buying wives.  In fact, if one goes by the success stories posted by agencies, I think one would be hard pressed to be able to spot those couples from the general population.



  On paper the type of men you have said are Elena's statistics look great. But this is not the type I have encountered traveling. Better educated,maybe? Normal physical shape? compared to what? 10 years difference? i think a minority stay within that range. But majority goes beyond. Especially the older they are.  Dunno.It would be interesting to ask the women who have been doing this and have met many AM  if a majority  the men really are "above average" as in Elena's models profile of AM.

 This would be a great topic to bring up on a RW board and ask their opinion of AM they have met.

 Belle,Mirror or any of the RW here. This is a challenge. Can you post this question on RW board and ask women what their opinion of AM who they have met are. Does it fit the Elena's models views? Are they above average?

   Perhaps the women I speak with have too high expectations of American men. Therefore were let down by the qulaity of men who visited.


 

Online andrewfi

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2009, 02:57:48 AM »
This is going waaaay off topic but nevermind.

Ten years ago almost every man seeking a Russian bride would have been relatively wealthy in his own country, he had to be in order to manage the process as it stood then. He would therefore, in all likelihood have been older than the average man seeking to marry in his own country and certainly older than the women he was meeting.
This is because back then the market for foreign brides was different, the marriage agencies were small and often used snail mail to send out printed catalogues of their offerings. There was little or no support for travellers when they went on a wife hunt  but there were many, many young women who, often with the support and connivance of their families sought a more secure and better life with the 'rich foreign man'.

Since then the market has opened up. The internet is more widely used and the mail order bride industry is accessible to more guys and thus the clients tend to move toward the mean in various aspects of their nature. They are likely to be younger now than a few years ago, likely to be less rich, but I'd suggest also less capabale of finding a wife in their own peer group. My recollection of the guys seeking a Russian bride when I first hit upon the community back in 1999 was that they were pretty well sorted, not all the kind of guy you'd want to have as best friend, but usually pretty strong and self starting blokes who would be expected to sort out their own relationships.
Now, well, just look around...
As the market is made easier to enter for the men and as the agencies seek to cast their net ever wider in search of fresh blood the results seem not to happy and that is without considering the women who are now, it seems getting as rare as hens teeth.

Losers buying wives?
No, not any more.
Now they never get that far, there are vastly fewer women willing to sell themselves and those that do want to sell themselves through an agency are much more aware of their market value. Just consider how rarely we see stories of green card scams? In almost every case now the scams are of the 'girl not present' variety - where a man might, with luck, actually get so far as to meet a woman but she finds some reason why the man will not be hers. More often the man never even travels to meet the object of his desire.
Nowadays, losers pay subscription fees to agencies to scan images of pretty girls and to 'communicate' with them. They get to indulge their fantasies without getting on a plane, some even end up on discussion forums with great stories of derring-do and their huge personalities, but for some reason, getting a passport is beyind them...

Today, I think the guys, by and large, who actually manage to get a woman to export herself to their home country are not 'losers' in personality terms. They may end up as losers when their relationship turns out to be not quite as advertised when mediated by an interpreter on a sales commission but that is another story.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline jb

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2009, 09:12:58 AM »
Andrew,

You and I have been around this patch for more years than most here can remember.  We are, perhaps, as different as night and day,  but let's think for a moment about some things not included in the "dirty barrel".

While I can agree that many men here will never get on a plane, (for whatever reason), we should not exempt those men who do have game.  And many men that do make the trip will fall victim to scams and/or to women with agendas not conducive to a happy family.  The internet dating scheme is an equal opportunity for dummies.   We've both seem plenty of that.

Even so,,, there are still ample numbers of good FSU women who will seek to expand their dating pool to include foreigners.    If a woman is bright enough to think outside the box, if she has enough to offer in the looks department, as well as the savvy, holds herself in high esteem, she can usually "sell" the deal to a pretty good guy.   Men, regardless of their social status and wealth, are easy.

For a man with above average good looks, intelligence, education, and income, there is the above average possibility he can cash in on those attributes and win for himself a much better mate in the FSU than he could hope for amongst the local bovine beauties.  It's been shown to happen more often than not if you disregard the obvious train wrecks.  Here I am specifically referring to the educated, professional, divorced man over 35-40, with a bad AW marriage or two well behind him.

As we debate this, there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of beautiful FSU women already happily married to such westerners.  They are raising families, enjoying careers, having Christmas parties, making friends,  and are not at all concerned with forums of this nature, it probably never enters their mind to join such a group.  They are (I think, mostly,,,) pretty happy with their decision to move abroad.  They have improved their life possibilities immeasurably.

Predominantly, here we read of problems and trials, and/or, even some braggarts showing their ignorance, but not successes.  Success stories don't breed long and hotly debated threads.  Therefore, it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.  There seems to be an enormous supply of chaff on these boards and very little real grain. 

Just some randon thoughts.
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Offline Manny

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2009, 09:34:49 AM »
I just wanted to comment that the two posts above - despite being penned by two very different coves with differing life experiences - are right on the money and are definitely the "real grain" that jb refers to.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

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Offline jb

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2009, 09:51:12 AM »
Manny,

I was seeking to add a positive to Andrew's negative, you shouldn't make more of it than that.
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Offline matt

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2009, 12:30:54 PM »


For a man with above average good looks, intelligence, education, and income, there is the above average possibility he can cash in on those attributes and win for himself a much better mate in the FSU than he could hope for amongst the local bovine beauties.  It's been shown to happen more often than not if you disregard the obvious train wrecks.  Here I am specifically referring to the educated, professional, divorced man over 35-40, with a bad AW marriage or two well behind him.



  Such a man as you describe will always have an over abundance of women available in the U.S.  I know men if that caliber who date RW,European women, latins, Brazilians. they don't need to go too far to find a foreign woman as foreign women living in the U.S. are pretty smart and maker a beeline to those types of men. The top 5% of men will attract the top 20% of women. That is just human nature. The amount of Eastern European lovelies and other foreign women is in endless supply for the man you have described. The only reason that sort of man would even be in a foreign country is for work or travel. Bride searching is rarely what the top 5% of men do. If it happens it happens but they aren't going halfway across the world to look for it.

  Again, I would love to hear from RW about the caliber of AM they have encountered. Are they of higher caliber than they expected? As Elena's model profile says. Are they mostly above average in search of 10 year age difference? this should be posted on the women's forum as we men tend to think we know how women think and what they want. Would be interesting to see women's point of view.

 

Offline jb

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2009, 02:02:54 PM »
But, Matt,,,

Aren't we the top 5% you speak of???
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2009, 02:36:45 PM »
jb, sadly though as so often happens you don't read the posts.
Note I was specifically referring to the mail order bride industry, it was clear from the words I wrote - go back and check, this time with benefit of eyeglasses. Then tell me that any of what I wrote is factually incorrect and point out how and why, we can all learn. ;)

Getting a wife from a foreign facing mail order bride agency is NOT akin to dating. One does not 'expand one's dating pool' either as a man or a woman by using the services of such enterprises to mediate the business of getting a spouse.

Frankly, an above average man will be able to get an above average mate ANYWHERE and frankly, if one thinks otherwise, due to one's own personal experience, then one might just want to reconsider one's own self image.

However, even if a foreign man is 'above average' in a foreign land, finding a woman willing to meet and move country is NOT easy. Most women average or not simply have no interest in foreign men. Back when you snagged your bride Russia was on the brink of bankruptcy and even a noddle brain could see that one might do better abroad. Situations and attitudes are different now.
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Offline DarkMatter

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2009, 02:53:32 PM »
I'm sorry, but this is laughable... :laugh:

Quote
There are plenty of traditional women in the U.S.
and
Quote
Such a man as you describe will always have an over abundance of women available in the U.S.

Traditional huh? So tell me, why is it that more than 50% of divorces in America, and on top of that, 70-90% is initiated by the woman? To top it off, they have all the rights, and act like men, talk like men, and in many cases dress like men. Traditional has been thrown out the window when feminism took over this country and the Western world. I'm sure there are 'traditional women' (Foreign and Domestic) in the U.S; however, its like finding a tootsie roll in a sea of turd. Better yet, those women are most likely taken because they are the women most men seek out. I'd rather take my chances in an area where men are still men, and ladies are still ladies.

About abundance. Even if a guy in America has looks, money, etc, there is the, Nice Guy Syndrome. Only way he gets around that is if he becomes a player. But why would you want a woman for a long term relationship if she goes with a player? It just shows shes no good to begin with. :D

Besides, if there was an over abundance of women available in the U.S, why aren't there foreign men coming over here in droves looking for a wife? Maybe its because they know what most men on this forum already know...... :fighting0004:

I don't know what it is, but there has been a discouragement on going abroad, on an abroad forum. The line of thinking in this thread in particular sounds like your typical American Woman who hears that an American Man is going overseas to meet his girlfriend...

"Hmph, why is he going to ( insert country )! Those women over there are whores, and want only a green card! He can't handle independent women like me! What a loser! I bet he has a small penis as well!  ::)"

Quote
But, Matt,,,

Aren't we the top 5% you speak of???

I would say we are!  :party0031:

Why? It takes courage to go to the unknown, and only those who have ballz will go out and explore it. Heck, most men wouldn't even dare touch a "How to learn Russian" book because they feel its too hard. Well it is, but you know what, its worth it because I get to learn a new language!  :party0031:

Quote
Predominantly, here we read of problems and trials, and/or, even some braggarts showing their ignorance, but not successes.  Success stories don't breed long and hotly debated threads.  Therefore, it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.  There seems to be an enormous supply of chaff on these boards and very little real grain

 :THUB:

As for black men with Russian/Ukrainian women, I guess there are some that would go with them, but the only problem is trying to win over the parents. As an Asian guy, I'm kinda worried about that as well once I get over there!  :sick0002:
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Offline iheartrw

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2009, 04:39:47 PM »

 Men, regardless of their social status and wealth, are easy.

 with a bad AW marriage or two well behind him.



I'm sorry, but this is laughable... :laugh:

Quote
There are plenty of traditional women in the U.S.
and
Quote
Such a man as you describe will always have an over abundance of women available in the U.S.

Traditional huh? So tell me, why is it that more than 50% of divorces in America,



I agree with these sentiments. 

*  I've posted before that men are pretty 'easy'.  As long as you don't have a third foot growing from your forehead and show the man a little interest, he's in the bag.

*  A contributing factor for seeking outside of one's local population could be bad experiences with that local population; ie divorce.  Rightly or wrongly, many men believe that women in the US are too hard to please.  This affects divorce rates as well as the dating market.

*  Our marriage market is broken.  We have huge numbers of single women and a large number of them have effectively taken themselves out of the market. 

Consider:

http://www.aarpmagazine.org/lifestyle/single_women.html


" of the 57 million American women 45 and up, nearly half—25 million—are unmarried "


"It finds that 31 percent of single women 40 through 69 are in an exclusive relationship, and another 32 percent are dating nonexclusively. But it also finds that a surprising number couldn't care less. About one in 10 have no desire to date at all, and another 14 percent say that while they'd date the right guy if he came along, they aren't going to knock themselves out trying to find him. (The remaining 13 percent are, indeed, looking.)"


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/16/us/16census.html

"In 2005, 51 percent of women said they were living without a spouse, up from 35 percent in 1950 and 49 percent in 2000."

"“Since women continue to outlive men, they have reached the nonmarital tipping point — more nonmarried than married,” Dr. Frey said. “This suggests that most girls growing up today can look forward to spending more of their lives outside of a traditional marriage.”"


More men would be married to a US woman if there were more traditional US women.   Women are opting out of marriage effectively creating an imbalance between men and women in the US.  DM is correct to point out that there is a scarcity of women and especially traditional women in the US.

On another issue others have touched on indirectly, I think that when looking at the international marriage phenomena, it would be helpful to look at it in comparison to local markets.  Are there a lot of keyboard romeo's?  I hear that there are but it's tough to quantify.  If twenty men write to the same 100 women and each visited a different woman then it would appear from each of the ladies' view points that there were 19 or 20 keyboard romeos.  In addition the cost associated with sites I would think would increase the odds of sincerety.  I don't know if this lack of seriousness could be better or worse than in the US.  Consider that one study estimated 30% of men on domestic sites like eharmony and match.com are married men  :chuckle:


In regards to the Nice Guy Syndrom:
Here is a very funny satirical piece:  http://www.ladderwiki.com/w/index.php/Are_You_Beta

The site is really funny because so much of it is true  :laugh:  The rest of the site is a lot cleaner and doesn't use so much profanity.

I don't think that FSUW are going to be all that much different but perhaps we can get more threads on this.   



Offline matt

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2009, 04:51:35 PM »
I'm sorry, but this is laughable... :laugh:

Quote
There are plenty of traditional women in the U.S.
and
Quote
Such a man as you describe will always have an over abundance of women available in the U.S.

  YES THERE ARE. DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU LOOK. THERE ARE PLENTY OF WOMEN WHO WANT TO STAY HOME AND RAISE TRADITIONAL FAMILIES.

Traditional huh? So tell me, why is it that more than 50% of divorces in America, and on top of that, 70-90% is initiated by the woman? To top it off, they have all the rights, and act like men, talk like men, and in many cases dress like men. Traditional has been thrown out the window when feminism took over this country and the Western world. I'm sure there are 'traditional women' (Foreign and Domestic) in the U.S; however, its like finding a tootsie roll in a sea of turd. Better yet, those women are most likely taken because they are the women most men seek out. I'd rather take my chances in an area where men are still men, and ladies are still ladies.

  RUSSIANS HAVE AN EVEN HIGHER DIVORCE RATE. LOOK IT UP. DIVORCE IS USUALLY INITIATED BECAUSE OF CHEATING OR FINANCIAL PROBLEMS. I"M SURE IF WE LOOKED AT THE DIVORCES BETWEEN AM?RW A MAJORITY OF WOMEN ARE THE INITIATORS TOO. SOME BECAUSE OF FINANCIAL REASONS OR CHEATING.

   IF YOU THINK FINDING A TRADITIONAL FW IN THE U.S. IS LIKE FINDING TOOTSIE ROOL IN A SEA OF TURDS,WHAT DO U THINK YOUR SPOUSE WILL BE LIKE AFTER LIVING HERE A FEW YEARS? AFTER ALL AS U CLAIM HER FOREIGN SISTERS ARE NOW FEMINIST TOO.

About abundance. Even if a guy in America has looks, money, etc, there is the, Nice Guy Syndrome. Only way he gets around that is if he becomes a player. But why would you want a woman for a long term relationship if she goes with a player? It just shows shes no good to begin with. :D


 I KMNOW GUYS WHO HAVE IT ALL AND BELIEVE ME,THEY HAVE PLENTY OF WOMEN CHASING THEM. DOES NOT MEAN HE'S A BAD GUY. JUST MEANS HE IS VERY MUCH WANTED. MOST ALL ABOVE AVERAGE WOMEN ARE SEARCHING FOR ABOVE AVERAGE GUY. THING IS HE'S A RARITY AND THERE ARE LOTS OF WOMEN COMPETING FOR HIM. THAT ALONE MAY GIVE HIM A "BAD BOY' image as we all know woman want men other women want.''

Besides, if there was an over abundance of women available in the U.S, why aren't there foreign men coming over here in droves looking for a wife? Maybe its because they know what most men on this forum already know...... :fighting0004:

  OVERABUNDANCE OF WOMEN AVAILABLE TO TOP 5% OF MEN. ARE  NOT FOR EVERYONE. LIKE IN RUSSIA OR ANYWHERE WHERE RICH GUY HAS 5 GIRLFRIENDS POOR GUY BARELY HAS 1.  AS FOR WHY FM DON'T COME HERE. WE KNOW MOST WOMEN PREFER TO HAVE MEN WHO CAN FINANCIALLY TAKE CARE OF THEM. MOST FM ARE NOT IN THAT POSITION. BUT THEY DO WAIT FOR SOME GULLIBLE AW TO COME TO THEIR COUNTRY AND ROMANCE. A LARGE MAJORITY OF VISAS ARE FM/AW. THAT IS JUST NOT TALKED ABOUT. . COINCIDENTALLY WHEN WESTERN WOMEN TRAVEL THE GLOBE TO GO HUSBAND HUNTING HE IS USUALLY HALF THEIR AGE AND SO "MASCULINE,ROMANTIC AND TRADITIONAL". DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR? I'M SURE THERE ARE AW FORUMS JUST LIKE THIS ONE COMPLAINING ABOUT FAT,WIMPY AM. AND THE NEED TO GO TO X COUNTRY BECAUSE ALL MEN THERE ARE MAGICALLY PERFECT.

I don't know what it is, but there has been a discouragement on going abroad, on an abroad forum. The line of thinking in this thread in particular sounds like your typical American Woman who hears that an American Man is going overseas to meet his girlfriend...

"Hmph, why is he going to ( insert country )! Those women over there are whores, and want only a green card! He can't handle independent women like me! What a loser! I bet he has a small penis as well!  ::)"

Quote
But, Matt,,,

Aren't we the top 5% you speak of???

I would say we are!  :party0031:

Why? It takes courage to go to the unknown, and only those who have ballz will go out and explore it. Heck, most men wouldn't even dare touch a "How to learn Russian" book because they feel its too hard. Well it is, but you know what, its worth it because I get to learn a new language!  :party0031:


 I GUESS IT TAKES COURAGE FOR "STELLA TO GET HER GROOVE BACK"  AND TRAVEL TO AFRICA,TURKEY,DOMINICAN REPUBLIC. ETC. IT DOES NOT TAKE COURAGE. IT TAKES A FANTASY OF GETTING YOUR DREAM GIRL OR GUY.


Quote
Predominantly, here we read of problems and trials, and/or, even some braggarts showing their ignorance, but not successes.  Success stories don't breed long and hotly debated threads.  Therefore, it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.  There seems to be an enormous supply of chaff on these boards and very little real grain

 TRUE SUCCESS STORIES ARE NOT TOLD. I KNOW 2 VERY HAPPY AM/RW COUPLES. BUT THEY ARE CLOSE IN AGE SO AND NOT THE NORM. SO THAT DOES NOT COUNT. THE OTHER GUYS I KNOW MARRIED TO FW ARE NOT SUCCESS STORIES. BUT MORE THE NORM.
 :THUB:

As for black men with Russian/Ukrainian women, I guess there are some that would go with them, but the only problem is trying to win over the parents. As an Asian guy, I'm kinda worried about that as well once I get over there!  :sick0002:


   IF A WOMAN REALLY LOVES YOU HER PARENTS WILL NOT MATTER. I HAVE SEEN MANY RW INVOLVED WITH RUSSIAN AND AMERICAN MEN WHO ARE LESS THAN SPECTACULAR. I HIGHLY DOUBT THE PARENTS WERE THRILLED.

Offline DarkMatter

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2009, 07:18:19 PM »
Hmmm.......why the Caps?

Haha~~  :party0031:

Quote
YES THERE ARE. DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU LOOK. THERE ARE PLENTY OF WOMEN WHO WANT TO STAY HOME AND RAISE TRADITIONAL FAMILIES.

I guess you didn't read the paragraph correctly. Here let me paraphrase it:

"Not enough of those women. Men go look elsewhere."  :fighting0004:

Quote
  RUSSIANS HAVE AN EVEN HIGHER DIVORCE RATE. LOOK IT UP. DIVORCE IS USUALLY INITIATED BECAUSE OF CHEATING OR FINANCIAL PROBLEMS. I"M SURE IF WE LOOKED AT THE DIVORCES BETWEEN AM?RW A MAJORITY OF WOMEN ARE THE INITIATORS TOO. SOME BECAUSE OF FINANCIAL REASONS OR CHEATING.

Yes, I am quite aware of the high divorce rate in Russia. At the same time, one cannot say that both Russia and America have high divorce rates for the same reasons. Russia has abusive, alcoholic men, and its usually the men that initiate the divorce.

America on the other hand is usually initiated by the female because of ulterior motives.

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Financial problems for divorce in America? I'm sorry, its a huge financial gain for a female in America if one gets a divorce, its called Alimony. On top of that, if there are children under 18, the woman 95% of the time will get the children, and get child support because the court system favors the female.

I'm sure there may be AM/RW divorces, but lets take a look, are they in America? If they are, I'm more inclined to believe that because once she enters the country, she now has all the rights.

Quote
IF YOU THINK FINDING A TRADITIONAL FW IN THE U.S. IS LIKE FINDING TOOTSIE ROOL IN A SEA OF TURDS,WHAT DO U THINK YOUR SPOUSE WILL BE LIKE AFTER LIVING HERE A FEW YEARS? AFTER ALL AS U CLAIM HER FOREIGN SISTERS ARE NOW FEMINIST TOO.

She will most likely become as bad as a typical American Female.  :fighting0025:

Her foreign sisters are feminists? What, in the US? Back in her country? That last sentence really confused me.... :'(

Quote
OVERABUNDANCE OF WOMEN AVAILABLE TO TOP 5% OF MEN. ARE  NOT FOR EVERYONE. LIKE IN RUSSIA OR ANYWHERE WHERE RICH GUY HAS 5 GIRLFRIENDS POOR GUY BARELY HAS 1.  AS FOR WHY FM DON'T COME HERE. WE KNOW MOST WOMEN PREFER TO HAVE MEN WHO CAN FINANCIALLY TAKE CARE OF THEM. MOST FM ARE NOT IN THAT POSITION. BUT THEY DO WAIT FOR SOME GULLIBLE AW TO COME TO THEIR COUNTRY AND ROMANCE. A LARGE MAJORITY OF VISAS ARE FM/AW. THAT IS JUST NOT TALKED ABOUT. . COINCIDENTALLY WHEN WESTERN WOMEN TRAVEL THE GLOBE TO GO HUSBAND HUNTING HE IS USUALLY HALF THEIR AGE AND SO "MASCULINE,ROMANTIC AND TRADITIONAL". DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR? I'M SURE THERE ARE AW FORUMS JUST LIKE THIS ONE COMPLAINING ABOUT FAT,WIMPY AM. AND THE NEED TO GO TO X COUNTRY BECAUSE ALL MEN THERE ARE MAGICALLY PERFECT.

Yes, we know that only the top 5% are allowed to have access to great women, while everyone else gets crumbs... ::)

I do agree that many American Women are duped by Foreign men if those women go to their country. They should know better, however, little do they know almost all FM/AW relationships are mainly based on the man getting into America. The ratio of AM/FW to FM/AW are really small. Like I stated before, an American Female can land Alimony through divorce court, so why does she need to go elsewhere when she can dupe an AM to marry her, and then rape him in divorce court? Its like winning the lottery :-[

 :laugh: :laugh: I know there are sites that complain about AM, its called the N.O.W :o.

Quote
I GUESS IT TAKES COURAGE FOR "STELLA TO GET HER GROOVE BACK"  AND TRAVEL TO AFRICA,TURKEY,DOMINICAN REPUBLIC. ETC. IT DOES NOT TAKE COURAGE. IT TAKES A FANTASY OF GETTING YOUR DREAM GIRL OR GUY.

LOL Its takes fantasy? No it takes work, guts, and time. You act like he/she will fall in your lap.  :laugh:

Haha~~ Most people don't like getting out of their comfort zones. Going to a place where you can't even read the street signs is pretty scary. Heck, a lot of people still stay in their home city.

Quote
TRUE SUCCESS STORIES ARE NOT TOLD. I KNOW 2 VERY HAPPY AM/RW COUPLES. BUT THEY ARE CLOSE IN AGE SO AND NOT THE NORM. SO THAT DOES NOT COUNT. THE OTHER GUYS I KNOW MARRIED TO FW ARE NOT SUCCESS STORIES. BUT MORE THE NORM.

If success stories aren't told, how are more and more people getting the idea that AM are happier somewhere else? Hmmm...BlackMajik maybe?  :laugh:

I dunno what it is, it seems you're trying so hard to find faults within a WM/FSUW relationship, and if you do find one, (even if obscure) you jump up and down and yell, "See! See! I told you they were bad!!!"  ::)

I also don't understand the shaming tactics used, such as "losers" because they aren't successful in their own area. That wordage and character resembles what American Women do to men. Maybe I am arguing with one.......








Exposed.. :laugh:
The grass is greener on the other side!

Offline matt

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2009, 08:01:28 PM »
Hmmm.......why the Caps?

Haha~~  :party0031:

Quote
YES THERE ARE. DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU LOOK. THERE ARE PLENTY OF WOMEN WHO WANT TO STAY HOME AND RAISE TRADITIONAL FAMILIES.

I guess you didn't read the paragraph correctly. Here let me paraphrase it:

"Not enough of those women. Men go look elsewhere."  :fighting0004:

Quote
  RUSSIANS HAVE AN EVEN HIGHER DIVORCE RATE. LOOK IT UP. DIVORCE IS USUALLY INITIATED BECAUSE OF CHEATING OR FINANCIAL PROBLEMS. I"M SURE IF WE LOOKED AT THE DIVORCES BETWEEN AM?RW A MAJORITY OF WOMEN ARE THE INITIATORS TOO. SOME BECAUSE OF FINANCIAL REASONS OR CHEATING.

Yes, I am quite aware of the high divorce rate in Russia. At the same time, one cannot say that both Russia and America have high divorce rates for the same reasons. Russia has abusive, alcoholic men, and its usually the men that initiate the divorce.

America on the other hand is usually initiated by the female because of ulterior motives.


I'm sure there may be AM/RW divorces, but lets take a look, are they in America? If they are, I'm more inclined to believe that because once she enters the country, she now has all the rights.
   

  MATT:
Many AM/RW do not have a high success rate either. Yes, most will live in America as that is where a majority of AM will take their bride. But women change especially when they have more options.That has nothing to do with being a feminist. Just human nature. A woman who may marry an American man she meets in her country who stood out as a great commodity and a "Rich American" to her friends and comes to the realization he is a "average guy" here may feel duped as she did not leave her country and familly to settle for "average". The younger she is, the more likely she will feel that way.
 


Her foreign sisters are feminists? What, in the US? Back in her country? That last sentence really confused me.... :'(

 MATT:
 What I's saying is there are a lot of foreign women already in the U.S. who are datable( I am presently dating a beautiful Czech girl who works as a stylist) . You said FW in the U.S. become feminist. I say if you believe that to be true than any FW you bring here will become the same. As for my Czech girlfriend she's very sweet.

[[/i][/u]

Yes, we know that only the top 5% are allowed to have access to great women, while everyone else gets crumbs... ::)


  MATT:
No top 5% are not the only ones who deserve anything. I'm saying women, like men ESPECIALLY Beautiful women want it all and the men who are the top percent will have his choice of women. Just replying to post who said handsome,young rich men can get better girl in Russia. I say they never need to step foot outside the U.S. to get high caliber women as they are sought after.


I do agree that many American Women are duped by Foreign men if those women go to their country. They should know better, however, little do they know almost all FM/AW relationships are mainly based on the man getting into America. The ratio of AM/FW to FM/AW are really small. Like I stated before, an American Female can land Alimony through divorce court, so why does she need to go elsewhere when she can dupe an AM to marry her, and then rape him in divorce court? Its like winning the lottery :-[

MATT:
 "And men are immune to getting duped? I think it's easier. have you ever heard of the poll taken where almost 100% of AM married to FW were in love. While a small percentage of FW could say the same, hoping to fall in love after the marriage. Human beings all fall in love for a reason. Men with their eyes,women with their ears. Unless you are both fluent in one language what exactly will she fall in love with? The man she thinks you are or perhaps the life she thinks you can give her? As for negative, look around. make friends with men who marry foreign women and join some groups. Being realistic about this helps.

  Yes, there are good women in Russia as well as anywhere in the world. But as a Russian friend has said. It is getting harder and harder to find a good RW under 30 as the younger generation love money and what they can buy above all. This is coming from a RM  not me."


 :laugh: :laugh: I know there are sites that complain about AM, its called the N.O.W :o.

Quote
]

LOL Its takes fantasy? No it takes work, guts, and time. You act like he/she will fall in your lap.  :laugh:

Haha~~ Most people don't like getting out of their comfort zones. Going to a place where you can't even read the street signs is pretty scary. Heck, a lot of people still stay in their home city.

[[/quote]

If success stories aren't told, how are more and more people getting the idea that AM are happier somewhere else? Hmmm...BlackMajik maybe?  :laugh:


 "Success stories are usually the minority who keeps it real. Age and within their league. If you take it  too far out of your league or age you have better have cash to back it up as that is a great equalizer."

I dunno what it is, it seems you're trying so hard to find faults within a WM/FSUW relationship, and if you do find one, (even if obscure) you jump up and down and yell, "See! See! I told you they were bad!!!"  ::)

I also don't understand the shaming tactics used, such as "losers" because they aren't successful in their own area. That wordage and character resembles what American Women do to men. Maybe I am arguing with one.......








Exposed.. :laugh:

[/quote]

  MATT:
    Spoke with a friend Today who married a Filipina. He was in Los Angeles during the Christmas holidays. His wife has been here about a year. she also has many Filipina friends who have married American men. Apparently there is a big network and they all get-together. He says Filipinas that come here become very competitive and money hungry. They all compete for who'se husband has the most. He equates it to a child who never had candy now getting an abundance of it and trying to hog it all up. He jas spoken with other American husbands about this. Most marvel at how little their wives had before. Some even had no bathroom. But how quickly they adapt to the good life and expectations.

Offline matt

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Re: Black Men and Their Prospects With Russian and/or Ukrainian Women
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2009, 08:15:23 PM »
Read this story. There are many like it on the  internet proving guys can be duped.
This guy is just honest enough to post it.Page 1 of 7   1   2   3   >   Last »
 
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 06-01-2006, 04:19 PM      #1
skinsfan 
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: north carolina usa
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surprising story
i don't know if this will be helpful to anyone when their wife/fiance will arrive...but here is my recent story...hope it doesn't bore you too much...

about 3 months ago, my wife and i along with our daughter were shopping in the Mall...my daughter heard two women speaking in Russian, so we went and introduced ourselves...they were from the Ukraine, and had been in the USA for 6 years...my wife and the women exchanged phone numbers, and we went on our way.

these women and my wife spoke on the telephone several times, they invited us for a party, and then cancelled at the last minute....that was the last we heard from them ......

recently (within the last month) my wife and i went to a restaurant, and one of the Ukrainian women saw us...it turns out she was asst manager of this restaurant.......after this meeting, these Ukranian women began to call and stop by our home frequently....they would spend much time at the mall with my wife....i thought it was great for my wife to have friends from the FSU, and encouraged it very much.

two weeks ago, they invited us to another party, and wanted us to arrive several hours before the other guests to help them...we were happy to help....everything was great, and all seemed to have a good time.

now is where the insanity begins.......

my wifes birthday was approaching, and i planned a long weekend at the ocean for my wife as a surprise...(she loves the water)...i never spoke to anyone about the surprise......

my wife takes ESL classes at night...one night, the Ukranian ladies stopped at my home unannounced.....i have a very protective dog, so i had to speak with them outside.....

they came with a book about time shares, and said that they could receive an ocean front 3 bedroom for a very low price at Daytona Beach Florida...they wanted to make it a surprise birthday gift for my wife....they wanted to go with us as well and stay in one of the three bedrooms. .....

i was hesitant at first, but they insisted.....my original plans were to Myrtle Beach South Carolina, approximately a five hour drive(i had taken my wife there before)....the drive to Florida was an eight hour drive...i also have very close friends that live in south Florida, and was relatively certain that if i called they would come and meet us at Daytona Beach.......so, i said okay.

the plans were that we would leave at 3.00am sunday morning, and come back on thursday morning...i simply had to adjust my calender which was difficult, but not impossible....this new plan was presented on the wednesday before my wifes birthday on friday, and the trip would be on very early sunday morning...not much time, but workable......

on the following day, i contacted my friends in florida, and they began to try and find a room short notice in Daytona Beach...this was thursday....my friend called me early friday (my wifes birthday) and said they were successful with the room and would meet us at the beach on monday morning......all was working out great untill ......!!!!!

i own a construction company, and of all days, my wifes birthday (friday) things took longer, i called my wife and told her i would be very late for dinner...she told me not to worry...she really is wonderful.....i arrived home at 8.00pm loaded with flowers...we had a nice dinner, but i was exhausted...my wife and i wanted to imply go to bed...but then, we received the call...it was the Ukranian women saying that they would arrive at our home in one hour for my wifes birthday......neither my wife or i was excited about this turn of events, but we made the Russian table and broke out the vodka.

at 11.00pm the ladies arrived....they ate, and we all made many toasts for health,etc. one lady smokes, so she went outside on the deck for a cigarette...my wife went along for company leaving me alone with the other women....i had small talk with this woman, and then i told her of my friends from florida meeting us also as a surprise for my wife....this woman became anxious...she wanted to go outside on the deck and hurry her friend along...this was about 12.45am, and i was ready for bed, so i didn't think too much about it. everyone left with smiles and took photo's......

saturday morning, i recieved a call from one of the women concerned about where my friends from florida would sleep..hoping it wasn't in the condo...i assured the lady that they had their own hotel, and not to worry.......all was understood and okay......so i thought......

later that afternoon, my wife and children went to the grocery store and to blockbuster video to get a film for the night and some food.....while they were away, i received a call from one of the women.......

this woman sounded so somber.....she told me that my wife accused her of trying to take her husband (me) from her...she told me that she was no prostitute and did not need any man.....she told me that the trip was off, and that she did not want to be friends anymore.....i was shocked, and caught completely off guard...all i could tell this woman was that i was shocked by what she was saying, and that was that.....

soon after, my wife arrived home...i told her what the woman said....i could see absolute surprise and shock in my wifes face......she told me that she never said anything such as this, and had not spoken to this woman since the night before. she began to cry and went up to bed....i felt so bad for her.

not long after, this Ukranian woman called me again asking for my wife...i said that she became upset when i told her about what she said and went up to bed...this woman said that she needed to speak with my wife very much, and would call again in 5 minutes to give me time to alert my wife of her call.....

i went to our bedroom, and my wife said she had nothing to say to this crazy woman...i said okay.......this Ukranian woman begn to call......she called several times to my wifes cell, then she called me back....i answered simply to tell this woman that my wife had no intentions of speaking with her at this time.....but....

before i could get it out...this woman told me that my wife was only looking for a green card...wanted to divorce me, and bring her ex boyfriend from Russia...move to California where his friends would set them up in business...she said that she knew i loved my wife, but that i was a big boy, and she knew i could handle it.....i said i had heard enough, and goodbye...she said that she would never speak to my wife again.....i said okay..goodbye........

i was pissed...i didn't know these women.......all i knew was that i had a great and loving relationship with my wife...but i was still extremely angry...it was about 10.30pm on saturday night, i decided to wait until morning to speak about this to my wife.......

sunday morning arrives, i make coffee and tell my wife all that had happened the night before....she could not believe what she heard...she then began to tell me about these women....these women asked many questions about my job, how much money i made, and many what i consider personal questions about my previous marriage etc.....

my wife said these women in the past 2 weeks had begun to question my love and committment to my wife and children...they said that i was holding back documents for my wifes AOS, social security number,etc....they told my wife to check all the mail that came to my house, and look at all possible hiding places.....they told my wife maybe i was tired of the children, and i was a good looking man that maybe wanted a new woman and i would send my wife back to Russia.......

i remember in the last week, i was home early and saw my son looking through the mail....i joked and said....there is nothing for you...give me the mail......he continued looking....i thought it odd, but said nothing.....

my wife and i have a strong bond, we talked it out....my wife is always very loving and attentive towards me.....i could not be happier with my life....my wife told me that she thought maybe this woman wanted me, and tried to break our marriage so that she could take my wifes place....i don't know...it is all too crazy to me........remember, all of this happened in less than 30 days....

i guess i wrote this long drawn out experience to alert others.....just because your wife/fiance may meet other people from their homeland, it doesn't mean that they are looking out for her best interest, i don't, and maybe never will understand their motive.....the only thing i can think of is that i was going to be set up by these women in someway in florida...but when they knew my friends were coming, maybe their plan was foiled, and they just wanted to unleash poison to possibly cause problems in our marriage........

i truely hope this made sense to all, and that i did not bore everyone too much.........


 
UPDATE
 coninued 12/08
i

t has been a while since i posted..i promised any updates, so here goes..

i had hoped for a more favorable result, but ... immigration is slow to respond... my Russian bride used the courts, her friends, the church and even her Georgian boyfriend, to accomplish her goals of reuniting in california with her armanian boyfriend from russia.

she never went to the immigration court in Atlanta where she was ordered to appear. she never did recieve her green card...she is simply on the run.

this woman. because she accused me of DV, (never happened) caused me to leave my company in NC and move to Fla. this never worked out, and now i am in Ga.... i am living day to day just trying to survive...no money, and maybe soon, no place to live.

i thought i did everything right in marrying my Russian bride...visiting russia many times, and writing and speaking on the phone daily.

i truely have lost everything in my life..... i tell my story only to try and warn people to be ABSOLUTELY SURE if that is possible, in your decisions.

for all of you that have a successful marriage to fsu women, God Bless you all !! i am truely happy for your joy, and wish all of you eternal happiness.
     







 

 

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