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Author Topic: "TheBat!" programme and its use.  (Read 52999 times)

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Offline Manny

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"TheBat!" programme and its use.
« on: July 17, 2008, 02:26:17 AM »
The Bat! (also known as TB! And TB) is an e-mail client application (a program that runs on a computer) that is marketed towards companies and individuals that need to manage large volumes of e-mail.

"The Bat!" is often associated with scammers. The product itself is legitimate and is a valuable tool for many businesses; unfortunately, the same features that make it effective and efficient for companies, also provide a similar benefit to scammers.

Fay Yuri or Hairy Boris is quite fond of "The Bat!", you will see it mentioned often when e-mail headers from potential scammers are discussed. This is why scammers use it:

  • The Scammer needs an e-mail client that can manage large amounts of e-mail from many different e-mail accounts (using the same e-mail account for communicating with many victims can be problematic since once identified as a Scammer, there are enough Blacklists that the e-mail account will be readily recognisable).
  • The Scammer needs an e-mail client that can sort messages from different e-mail accounts into threads do that the dialogue over time can be managed – this allows "customization" of the communication with the victim to help avoid suspicion (not answering questions or ignoring important information can tip off a victim that something is wrong.)
  • The Scammer needs a way to reduce the amount of effort required to communicate with all their victims.

Some people will tell you that whenever you see a "The Bat!" marker in e-mail headers it is always a scam. Not always so. If you suspect you are in correspondence with a scammer, check the e-mail headers, look for a reference to "The Bat!" in there, it can be an indicator of skulduggery and it is often found in the e-mails from scammers.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline mobyone

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2008, 03:04:48 AM »
look for a reference to "The Bat!" in there. That can also be an indicator of skulduggery.

I think your advice is spot on re the "signs" but would just like to point out that many FSU IT folk use "the bat" and recommend it to their clients ...

I "courted" a lady that used it and she was no scammer .. Many folk I know in Cyprus use it .. it's sort of a "up yours" to Microsoft ..

So, use of "the bat" doesn't NECESSARILY point to being a scammer ;)

Offline Chris

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2008, 03:16:11 AM »
look for a reference to "The Bat!" in there. That can also be an indicator of skulduggery.
I think your advice to justme is spot on re the "signs" but would just like to point out that many FSU IT folk use "the bat" and recommend it to their clients ...

I "courted" a lady that used it and she was no scammer .. Many folk I know in Cyprus use it .. it's sort of a "up yours" to Microsoft ..

So, use of "the bat" doesn't NECESSARILY point to being a scammer ;)

I agree MS but The Bat is a shareware e-mail client hosted out of Moldova and is well known for being a spamming tool used by scammers, so much so that some ISP's block messages containing the Bat x-mailer header. Many spam messages have the X-Mailer header field set to The Bat!, but this is because it is one of the default settings in the Advanced Mass Sender program, which is frequently used for sending spam mail.

Although of course there are plenty of legitimate users of it too, so it is not necessarily a spammer using it, but there is a good chance of a spammer using it for unsavoury reasons, if that makes sense  ;)
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Offline mobyone

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2008, 03:49:26 AM »
look for a reference to "The Bat!" in there. That can also be an indicator of skulduggery.

Quote from: msmoby
I think your advice is spot on re the "signs" but would just like to point out that many FSU IT folk use "the bat" and recommend it to their clients ...

I "courted" a lady that used it and she was no scammer .. Many folk I know in Cyprus use it .. it's sort of a "up yours" to Microsoft ..

So, use of "the bat" doesn't NECESSARILY point to being a scammer ;)

Quote from: Chris
I agree MS but The Bat is a shareware e-mail client hosted out of Moldova and is well known for being a spamming tool used by scammers, so much so that some ISP's block messages containing the Bat x-mailer header. Many spam messages have the X-Mailer header field set to The Bat!, but this is because it is one of the default settings in the Advanced Mass Sender program, which is frequently used for sending spam mail.

Although of course there are plenty of legitimate users of it too, so it is not necessarily a spammer using it, but there is a good chance of a spammer using it for unsavoury reasons, if that makes sense  ;)

Yep, it does make sense .. ! ;)


If you follow this link .. http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/prizes.php .. you'll see how many awards the product has .. including my fav pc mag, PCPRO.

So, I hope you'll see that it is a shame that a lady might be excluded because her IT advisor has read good reports about an email client :)

YES, it could be "sign".. and in this case the content of the mail doesn't ring true...

BTW My wife's son uses the Bat! and she wrote to me first...;)


Offline Manny

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2008, 09:13:43 AM »
I did qualify my statement with "can" in the sentence "can be an indicator of skulduggery." Can meaning perhaps. IMO "The Bat!" is merely a piece of the jigsaw that can be considered with other info to form an opinion, not as a decider in and of itself.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline mobyone

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2008, 10:33:12 AM »
I did qualify my statement with "can" in the sentence "can be an indicator of skulduggery." Can meaning perhaps. IMO "The Bat!" is merely a piece of the jigsaw that can be considered with other info to form an opinion, not as a decider in and of itself.

I knew that, but I keep hearing the Bat! = scammer and I know SO many folk using it  ...

Offline siberia

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2008, 06:51:34 PM »
Well, I am so happy someone else brought up about the bat! if you know anything about FSU IT, you will know it has been the favored mail program for all FSU computer geeks for years since it came out. I can tell you that if you girl has internet at home that a friend might have set up for her, (for ex. a friend who is an IT person for their job) they could very well set up the bat. Or if your girl goes to an internet cafe for emailing you, they more than likely will have the bat also!! As msmoby says, its a finger up to M$, which ALL FSU IT people hate, and also, back in the day, it was found by someone, who gave it their friend, who gave it their friend, etc.
My point is, it does not indicate scammer without other things to indicate scammer.

I will use a controversial analogy. All drug addicts smoke pot but not all pot smokers are drug addicts. All scammers use the bat but not all the bat users are scammers!

IMHO (as someone involved in FSU IT since 1994)

Offline robertjay

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2008, 03:15:50 AM »
My future sister in-law also has "bat" account at her work with a large company she works for. Sometimes my future wife's ISP goes down on her home computer and I send my letters to her sister and she prints my mail and takes it home to her at the end of the day.
I asked her how many people in her company have a "bat" account and she thought everyone had one but wasn't sure.
I agree with Manny to be a little careful, but also be aware that many of the women may only have this type of account to make contact.
robertjay

Offline LuganskUkraine

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2008, 02:23:29 AM »
TheBat in Full Headers = SCAM if the girl says that she is using the Internet Club, because they only have it at personal computers at offices or homes. Computers at computer clubs are public.

Offline msmoby

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2009, 05:47:37 PM »
TheBat in Full Headers = SCAM if the girl says that she is using the Internet Club, because they only have it at personal computers at offices or homes. Computers at computer clubs are public.

Hi !

I didn't understand what you were trying to say, at first  :-[

Naturally, if a person is using a public pc - at an internet cafe, they would be using a webmail interface - NOT an email client ( such as 'the Bat!', Outlook, etc., )


I found this piece on the company that sells 'the Bat'

http://www.ritlabs.com/ru/products/thebat/advice_detail.php?ID=189



Советы

The Bat! and The Spammer

A number of ISPs, sites and organisations are claiming that The Bat! is a spamming tool and, on that basis, are blocking messages containing "The Bat!" in an x-mailer header.

The Bat! is not spamware. Far from it. The same spamware that can (poorly) impersonate The Bat! also can and does routinely impersonate Outlook and other software.

Blocking messages with the X-Mailer: The Bat! header, is preventing free communication by The Bat! users and is very unfair.

Any ISPs that are doing that should be pointed to this web page.

The reason some people think that The Bat! is responsible for sending spam is that a spam tool called Advanced Mass Sender (AMS) by Max Terentiev will allow you to choose a fake X-Mailer header to obfuscate, confound and incriminate. It comes with four pre-programmed fake headers as follows:

Advanced Mass Sender
Outlook Express 4.72
X-Mailer
The Bat! (v1.52f) Business
There are clues that make it obvious that the spam message didn't come from The Bat!. For one thing, it has an "X-MSMail-Priority: Normal" header. The Bat! doesn't use this.

It may be possible for his ISPs to filter on the bogus The Bat! header (as well as some of the known bogus Outlook mailer spam signatures) while ensuring that legitimate Bat X-Mailer signatures are not filtered.

We are all for filtering on the spamware Bat! signatures and are happy to assist in that effort.

We are a victim of these spamware purveyors. Spammers harm the viability of email as a communications medium... and the more ISPs harm legitimate companies like users of The Bat! the more they help the spammers harm everyone.

The licence for The Bat! includes very clear anti-spamming rules:

The supply or promotion of the program for the purpose of sending bulk, unsolicited e-mail is incompatible with the basic aims of the program, which revolve around the free provision of a service that enhances the quality of communication between people.
The program may not be used for the purpose of sending bulk Unsolicited Commercial Electronic Mail. For the purposes of this section, this shall be construed to mean electronic mail sent to a total of more than 50 recipients for the purpose of advertising a commercial product or service, where the recipient has not explicitly expressed interest in receiving such advertisements.
The program may not be included in any package designed for sending bulk unsolicited e-mail, whether free or otherwise, nor may vendors of such packages use "The Bat!" trademark or other related material in the promotion of their package. The senders of bulk unsolicited e-mail are prohibited from using "The Bat!" trademark in either body or headers of such unsolicited e-mail messages.
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Offline JohnnyBGoode

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2009, 10:58:55 PM »
I have corresponded with 12-15 ladies over the past couple years using email as one medium of communication.  I always moved quickly to email so I could check the headers and track their IP to see if they were legit. Of all of these ladies, only one was a scammer, the first 'Russian Lady" who ever contacted me, and "she"used "The Bat!"

I don't think "The Bat!" is as widely used by ordinary folks in the FSU as one poster suggested. If you see this in the header of the email, and she mentions the word "love" in the first few emails, you can rest assured she is a scammer.

Offline msmoby

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2009, 12:52:50 AM »

I don't think "The Bat!" is as widely used by ordinary folks in the FSU as one poster suggested.


I see... so you work in comms and have worked with FSU IT folk for the last 7 years and would know better than me....  :ROFL:  .. my 'bad'..!


If you see this in the header of the email, and she mentions the word "love" in the first few emails, you can rest assured she is a scammer.

Mentioning love, in the first few mails would be a better clue....    Horses and water come to  mind... ;)

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Offline WestCoast

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2009, 01:27:54 AM »
Johnny and Moby I know more than a little about IT however I've never been to the FSU but I have been to China.  In China the one thing I learned about IT and software is that everything is copied from what's available at work, legal or illegal everything is copied. 

I would imagine that software piracy is just as rampant in the FSU.  So if someone is familiar with the Bat from work then they are likely to just copy it at the office and take it home and use it. Also neither of you mentioned that the Bat is available in other flavors.  There is also the Bat Home Edition, http://the-bat.en.softonic.com/compare/windows-live-mail-desktop,incredimail,reach-a-mail-pro . A free 30-day trial which as everyone knows can usually be extended if you know how. http://download.cnet.com/The-Bat-Professional-Edition/3000-2367_4-10010888.html .  There is also The Bat! Voyager an email client version designed to be used on a USB flash drive. http://www.softpedia.com/get/PORTABLE-SOFTWARE/Internet/E-mail/Windows-Portable-Applications-The-Bat-Voyager.shtml
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline msmoby

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2009, 06:20:16 AM »
Hi WC,

WHAT has software  piracy got to do with spooling email headers in'The Bat!' ? You may work in IT, but we are talking email client header info..and what it tells us....

..software piracy ? .. YES, folk in the FSU don't like to pay for s/w and even though Outlook Express/  windows mail is free - they prefer to use a prog that 'cocks a snoop' at Mr Gates..

'The Bat!' was extremely popular in the first part of this decade - as the email client of choice - for many FSU IT professionals.. the variant of 'The Bat! 'used isn't  relavent

The professional variant was invariably the one 'cloned'

Again, we are missing the point.. use of 'The Bat!', in isolation, does NOT indicate 'scammer' .. it prob just means the pc was loaded with software an IT professional prefers.


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Offline JohnnyBGoode

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2009, 09:49:08 AM »
I see... so you work in comms and have worked with FSU IT folk for the last 7 years and would know better than me....  :ROFL:  .. my 'bad'..!

IT people are not ordinary users (I work in IT too)...but I agree, you would know better than me (and everyone else on every subject)  :laugh:

Offline msmoby

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2009, 09:59:15 AM »


IT people are not ordinary users (I work in IT too)...but I agree, you would know better than me (and everyone else on every subject)  :laugh:

It would be 'funny' if your so called 'expertise' in the use of FSU derived s/w might not be read by someone who thought you knew what you were talking about....

Please feel free to join in on any thread where you feel I have 'erred'
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Offline JohnnyBGoode

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2009, 10:11:00 AM »
It would be 'funny' if your so called 'expertise' in the use of FSU derived s/w might not be read by someone who thought you knew what you were talking about....

I never said I was an expert  ::)

but I will be glad to share my thoughts on subjects, even when people know more than me. Perhaps you should start your own board called "Ask 1Msmoby"    :coffeeread:

Offline msmoby

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2009, 10:26:14 AM »

I never said I was an expert  ::)

Then why post misleading nonsense re 'The Bat!'? !



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Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

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Offline Manny

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2009, 11:17:30 AM »
Perhaps you should start your own board called "Ask 1Msmoby"    :coffeeread:

 :laugh:

It remains a fact that many scammers communications have The Bat! in the headers. It is logical to use that marker as an identifier of a potential scam despite the fact Moby thinks every Smokinhotkova from Barnaul to Vladivostok just happens to use a pirated copy of it for entirely legitimate purposes.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline msmoby

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2009, 11:58:35 AM »

It remains a fact that many scammers communications have The Bat! in the headers. It is logical to use that marker as an identifier of a potential scam despite the fact Moby thinks every Smokinhotkova from Barnaul to Vladivostok just happens to use a pirated copy of it for entirely legitimate purposes.


The 'fact' that you would continue to quote it AS a 'fact' when there is a PERFECTLY sound technical explanation from the company that wrote 'The Bat!'  is EXTREMELY worrying.. and even how to identify the false header..

I must tell my Mother-in-law / Step-son that they are scammers - 'coz Manny says so...   :laugh:


I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline Manny

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2009, 12:01:48 PM »
If your step son was emailing guys seeking women, he would be a scammer eh?  :coffeeread:
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline JohnnyBGoode

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2009, 12:03:20 PM »
Then why post misleading nonsense re 'The Bat!'? !

It's not nonsense...it's my experience and my opinion  8)

Offline msmoby

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2009, 12:24:05 PM »
If your step son was emailing guys seeking women, he would be a scammer eh?  :coffeeread:

Hmm.. who just said.. It is logical to use that marker ['The Bat!'  headers ] as an identifier of a potential scam ..? .. despite a VERY clear explanation form the folk who wrote the prog., and how to detect the insertion of false email headers.....  :(

The way you suggest it, anyone one using 'The Bat!' is MORE likely to be a scammer - when that just ain't a 'fact' ....





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Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline msmoby

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2009, 12:28:40 PM »

It's not nonsense...it's my experience and my opinion  8)

Continuing to compound one's lack of comprehension ( re the misuse of email client headers from a popular FSU email client ) isn't expressing an 'opinion'...  it is more than a little worrying considering this is your field of expertise..

Could I suggest you THINK the 'scammer was using 'The Bat!' .. ?! .. if indeed the persons were 'scammers' at all..



 
I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline JohnnyBGoode

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Re: "TheBat!" programme and its use.
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2009, 01:29:32 PM »
Could I suggest you THINK the 'scammer was using 'The Bat!' .. ?! .. if indeed the persons were 'scammers' at all..

If it will make you happy  tiphat

But lets just say you are corresponding with beautiful Natasha from Krasnoyarsk. Her email is nat48693@mail.ru (fictitious email). Her mother is in the hospital, she was mugged last night walking home from her job as a hairdresser, and she used the last of her money to send you a long, detailed email of these events from the internet cafe. You receive the email and read with great curiosity of these events and her peculiar life in a far away Siberian city. She expresses her gratitude toward you for being so kind, understanding and handsome. She now feels that she just cannot live without you. You smile, touched by her kind words toward you and so intrigued by the thoughts of this gorgeous Siberian lady. You check the email headers and they look like this:

X-Apparently-To:   xxxxxxxx@yahoo.com Mon, 03 Mar 2008 09:57:59 -0800
X-Originating-IP:   [68.142.237.91]
Return-Path:   <nat48693@mail.ru>
Authentication-Results:   mta216.mail.re3.yahoo.com from=yahoo.com; domainkeys=pass (ok)
Received:   from 68.142.237.91 (HELO n6.bullet.re3.yahoo.com) (68.142.237.91) by mta216.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; Mon, 03 Mar 2008 09:57:59 -0800
Received:   from [68.142.237.89] by n6.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2008 17:57:58 -0000
Received:   from [69.147.75.183] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2008 17:57:58 -0000
Received:   from [127.0.0.1] by omp104.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:   245207.32258.bm@omp104.mail.re1.yahoo.com
Received:   (qmail 40509 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2008 17:57:58 -0000
Received:   from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.4?) (nat48693@mail.ru with plain) by smtp115.plus.mail.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2008 17:57:57 -0000
X-YMail-OSG:   
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:   ymail-3
Date:   Mon, 3 Mar 2008 20:57:58 +0300
From:   This sender is DomainKeys verified nat48693@mail.ru  Add sender to Contacts
X-Mailer:   The Bat! (v3.0.1.33) Professional
Reply-To:   nat48693@mail.ru
X-Priority:   3 (Normal)
Subject:   Hello my dear!!!
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 :snivel:


 

 

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