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Author Topic: The Original "Tablets of Stone"  (Read 26209 times)

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Offline leslied

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The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« on: April 24, 2008, 04:24:41 PM »
I published this article in back in September 2002 on the old RWG.  The scene has moved on in the last 6 years but the arguments are still relevant.  It should be taken as a set of ideas which should be considered by every newcomer.  Feel free to add any discussion.  Times change...

_____________________________________________________________________

SCAM ADVICE FOR NEWBIES

I am getting weary of posting advice on every thread opened by a newbie that basically asks the same question  “Am I being scammed???”  I know the other old hands are suffering from “advice fatigue” too.  Occasionally BB wields his “clue bat”, particularly when the newbie is particularly gormless….  Ron (witchdoctor) offers terse to the point advice.  BB’s catch phrase “Run Forrest, RUN!!” is heard.  Some of the newer members are pitching in – “Lets make fun of the gomer!!”  Newbies  don’t read the archived posts.  They pitch in and ask questions that an evening reading would answer.  There is a problem here though, the archived threads do contain very wide ranging advice which will cover maybe 80% of newbie queries, but you have to read a lot of threads to gain this knowledge.  Most newbies don’t bother. 

This thread is designed to concentrate the Scam advice in one place.

I have spent 3 years looking for my woman.  I might have found her now.  I have written to HUNDREDS of FSU women, been involved with several agencies.  I have made LOTS of mistakes.  I have lined Fat Yuri’s pockets.  I have also learned a thing or three…..

The Fat Yuri demon manifests itself in thousands of ways.  He is getting much smarter,  the scams are getting slower, more sophisticated.  The business plans of many agencies cover scammers trails.  Many agencies have scam business practices.  I could go on and on……

There is one common theme to all of this – MONEY.  Period.  It is as simple as that.

STAGE ONE - INTERNET MARRIGE & DATING AGENCIES

This business has really taken off.  Do a Yahoo or Google search.  You get THOUSANDS of sites.  Sad to say it but since I started my search back in 1999, the number of scam agencies has grown exponentially.  When I started out the most usual business practice was to buy addresses.  Now the agencies try to “lock you in”  make you spend more $$ with them. 

The most obvious scam is the agency will not let you have the women’s address and telephone number.  You have to use their expensive e-mail and translation service. Or match making. Or book an expensive trip.  Yada, Yada, Yada….  Here is my first rule;

TABLET OF STONE  1 – DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH ANY AGENCY WHICH WILL NOT LET THE LADY SEND YOU HER FULL CONTACT DETAILS.

If you progress beyond a couple of exchanges of letters ask for the ladies full name, address and telephone number (or the number of a friend where you can ring her).

TABLET OF STONE 2 – IF THE LADY WILL NOT GIVE YOU HER FULL CONTACT DETAILS – RUN FORREST, RUN!!

This is so obvious! But so many newbies get caught at this point.  If your woman will not give you this information she is either an internet spook, a scammer, or not interested in you. Maybe she is all three. You are wasting your time, move on.

STAGE TWO – WRITING AND WISH FULFILLMENT

At this stage nearly all guys start to entertain “wish fulfillment fantasies”  They stare at her photos, read the love letters and begin to wish their “red-hot-kova” is won!   The lady enters their dreams (and maybe their masturbation fantasies!).  In this state many guys are vulnerable, they think they can buy their dreams and in the process often fill the purses of scam women.  I know this is true.  Been there, done that and come back to reality wearing the  humiliated tee shirt…

Experience has taught me a few things.

TABLET OF STONE 3 – VERIFY YOU ARE WRITING TO A REAL WOMAN WHO IS INTERESTED IN YOU

Again this is obvious, but I have made this mistake and so do lots of other guys! If you are getting attached to a woman you MUST do two things.

1.  You must verify she is who she says she is.  The best way to do this is to have a gift (Flowers?)  hand delivered  to her home address and get photos of her receiving your gift.  I think it is a good idea to have this done independently (i.e. not through the agency where you met)  Newbies  - If you are uncertain how to do this post a thread saying how do I send flowers to my girl in “Kiev” (insert the name of her city here).  One of the services here will post a reply to your request.  This will cost around $50.  It is money well spent.  It checks your ladies address and you get photos of her as she really is (Not the professional photos which could have been taken years ago)

2. You must talk with her on the telephone.  If she speaks good English this is easy.  If not organize 3 way calls with an interpreter.  Newbies – Look in the classified ads section.  Several good interpreters can help you with this.  Talk with your lady, reality check – does she sound honest and genuine?  Is she interested in you?


OK so now you know you are talking to a real person who appears to like you.  Do not make the common mistake of offering her money.  You cannot buy her love or affection. You can fill her purse though! (Fat Yuri says Thanks!) The next problem that arises when your “girl friend” asks for money.  There is a golden rule here.

TABLET OF STONE 4 – NEVER SEND MONEY TO A WOMAN YOU HAVE NOT MET

This is very obvious, simple, but we get lots of newbie posts on this.  Fat Yuri is getting smarter.  Scams are getting more sophisticated and slow burning.  The strategy of;  Slowly, Slowly,  Catchee Monkey! is becoming much more common   It is this simple.  If you do not send money Fat Yuri is not interested.  You avoid him by obeying this rule.  If you do send money, it is a gift.  You are not paying for anything so there is no "money back" guarantee.


TABLET OF STONE 5 – IF A WOMAN ASKS YOU FOR MONEY, IT’S A SCAM

I you have checked the lady out as above I will make a single exception to this.  If she is using an internet café allow her $25 a month max to cover costs (exchange of 2 e-mails a week).  No more. 

Any other request for money is a HUGE RED FLAG.  Decent women do not ask for money. The scammers are getting very smart.  They want to have their fish securely hooked before they ask for money.  The guy is vulnerable.  My Natasha (insert your woman’s name here) a scammer NO! (insert wish fulfillment fantasy here)  It cannot be true!  BUT IT IS.  Period.  Scammers are very inventive!

$350 for tourist visa so she can visit you.
$1500 for Visa and air tickets to visit you
$500 for emergency dental work.
$3000 for hospital expenses to cover car accident.

Yada, Yada, Yada.  The list is endless.  Guys are scammed all the time.  Most are so embarrassed they keep quite about it.  Some post details of the scam here or on other sites. 

I have learnt that we train the FSU witches.  We create the sharks.  Sending money feeds them, causes them to breed, multiply….  DO NOT SEND MONEY.

If you get this far with your internet girl friend you are doing well.  Now you just have to contain your wish fulfillment fantasies and remember this rule;

TABLET OF STONE 6 – YOU CANNOT FALL IN LOVE UNTIL YOU MEET

Do not fall in love with photos.  Expressions of love in letters are not grounded in reality.  You have to get on a plane and go and meet your lady.  You have to see if this relationship is real.

TABLET OF STONE 7 – PLAN A TRIP TO FSU

 Sometimes “the write one, visit one” (WOVO) strategy works.  There are happy endings! Other times it does not.  I wrote to a teacher in Samara.  Wonderful letters.  I lived my wish fulfillment fantasy.  I went to visit her ($3000 trip).  At the first meeting the chemistry between us was negative.  I never saw or spoke to her again.  Four months of hopes and dreams smashed in two hours.  Many other experienced guys have had this experience.  This is why I favor the “Write many Visit many” (WMVM) strategy.  If you use the WOVO strategy remember my final rule;

TABLET OF STONE – 8  ALWAYS HAVE BACK UP PLANS FOR YOUR TRIP

You have lots of choices here.  Just make sure that your vacation plan does not restrict you to being with a single woman.  You might hate each other!  Visiting a woman in her home town is best.  You can really check things out then.  Meet her family and friends.  Make sure you have an exit strategy if things don’t work out.  Always have a back up plan to meet other women or to be a tourist.

OK guys Moses had 10 commandments on his “Tablets of Stone”  Add your ideas and thoughts. Your 2 cents.   I hope this thread will become a  first stop for newbies. 

_______________________________________________________________________

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Offline froid

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2008, 06:58:26 AM »
Where is the article for the women on "How to avoid THOSE guys"?  Would only be fair to write up one of those too. 
Look, we're gonna spend half the night driving around the Hills looking for this one party and you're going to say it sucks and we're all gonna leave and then we're gonna go look for this other party. But all the parties and all the bars, they all suck. <-Same goes for forums!

Offline Simoni

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2008, 07:22:31 AM »
Excellent thougts, Leslie.  :party0011:

Your eary work has become the standard on many sites today...

Don't fall in love with a picure
Never send money to a girl you don't know
Run at the first sign of a scam

You are a pioneer, my friend.  BTW--that does not make you OLD  ;) LOL
And I think it's going to be a long, long time...


Offline Manny

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2008, 04:12:49 PM »
Quote from: tablets of stone
TABLET OF STONE 4 – NEVER SEND MONEY TO A WOMAN YOU HAVE NOT MET

This is very obvious, simple, but we get lots of newbie posts on this.  Fat Yuri is getting smarter.  Scams are getting more sophisticated and slow burning.  The strategy of;  Slowly, Slowly,  Catchee Monkey! is becoming much more common   It is this simple.  If you do not send money Fat Yuri is not interested.  You avoid him by obeying this rule.  If you do send money, it is a gift.  You are not paying for anything so there is no "money back" guarantee.

I would like to explore this.

There is a world of difference between sending money to an e-mail correspondent who is probably Fat Yuri after a few Cozy Home letters, and a man, having validated the woman is indeed a woman and who she says she is, sending a few hundred to facilitate something useful for the developing relationship. (Maybe an internet connection etc)

Allow me to expand on this - after I first met my [now] wife for a few days, I had validated she was indeed a woman but not that she was not a scammer. Our next meeting was to be Paris then driving up to Holland. Of course, I was paying (I invited her) so when we got around to paying for her Schengen Visa and ticket from a Russian Travel Agent, the travel agent could only accept money by Western Union.  :duh:

Around this time I had found the old RWG forum, and everywhere I read "Dont send money" and "Fat Yuri and Western Union" - Whilst nowadays I can tell the wheat from the chaff (I hope!) - back then, I argued about Western Union and extolled the virtues of Expedia e-tickets until the cows came home. Eventually, my [now] wife said "OK, dont send the money - I wont come" - I decided to risk it, it was maybe $1000 flights and Visa etc. I am now glad I sent that Western Union!  :duh:

Since then, as most here know, my wife started a small agency website. We have had four or five times when it has been necessary for a guy to send money to a woman he has not met, one time (As we knew the woman) I even said to the guy (as he had read forums and was worried) I would underwrite his payment, if he got scammed I would refund him from my pocket. He is now married to that girl. His WU was to pay for her Internet connection.

A guy she worked for from the US decided to fund an Internet connection recently, to a woman he had not met, (my wife had validated her as best she could by telephone prior of course) - with my wifes help, that girl got Internet, then Skype, and she and the guy were speaking daily. That guy as we speak is on his second visit and doing K1 paperwork in Ukraine - it would never had been possible had he not have sent money.

A guy we all know, [who shall remain nameless unless he identifies himself] recently sent some money to a girl to facilitate again an Internet connection, that girl got Skype also, they now speak on webcam every day. He visits her for the first time very soon. My wife had to argue with her on the phone to get her to accept his money for an Internet connection. She did, but it wasnt easy. She didnt want cash from some guy she had never met.

There are many valid reasons for a guy to send money in certain circumstances. Sometimes to a woman he has not met. I quote below from my forthcoming book:

The main lesson here is never send money to someone you have never actually met for healthcare, visas, tickets, flights, unforeseen emergencies, rent or anything of that nature. Never send any money for anything unless the woman has been verified as totally genuine, preferably by a native Russian speaker (Your independent interpreter/translator perhaps) and you are in serious communication, by which I mean are in frequent telephone contact with and whom you have all contact information for. Never send money to people who are only e-mail correspondents. A genuine woman will never ask you for money, at least not until you have met face to face."

I maintain there are sometimes good reasons to send money to a woman you have not met. I quote further from said book.

I know many situations where sensible well informed men have sent money to women they haven’t yet physically met; I don’t recall any I know of being scammed in this way. There is a big difference between sending money to a photograph of Hairy Boris after a few “I want to make the cozy home” e-mails and a sensible man, having established without doubt that the woman is genuine and having opened up all lines of communication, to send some money to facilitate something that will be beneficial to the developing relationship.
Most men that do send money do so to facilitate an internet connection or in order for the woman to commence English lessons without delay or some other useful thing. Perhaps she has to pay a deposit for the flat you rent when you visit or some other advance visit related expense. Such an amount will not be very much in the grand scheme of things, it will be a few hundred rather than a couple of thousand.


The sending money situation is not entirely black and white.

Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline leslied

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2008, 03:16:57 PM »
Manny

I welcome the opportunity for discussion.  First let us define what we mean by a commandment (or a Tablet of Stone). My definition is “A simple statement of a guiding principle”  For example let us consider Moses 6th Commandment (or 5th if you are Catholic)

“Thou Shalt not kill” 

If you are a strict Quaker there is no circumstance which will cause you to break this rule.  A maniac could break into your house, kill your kids and be raping your wife but you still would not kill him.  Well, I am not a Quaker and I can assure you that in this circumstance the maniac would die - horribly.  I agree with the general rule but there are situations where I would disregard it.

I penned this article in the same spirit.  I set out eight general guiding principles.  Of course you can disregard any of them depending on circumstance.  I have done so myself.  I sent travel money to women to meet me in Kiev.  My personal judgement was good.  They all turned up.  However if one had not,  it would have been no big deal.  So I lost a couple of  $100 - Never mind...

The article is dated Manny.   Back when it was written Skype was not invented.  Maybe one woman in 20 had access to the internet at home or work.  We had only recently moved on from snail mail.  Internet cafes were the way to go then – hence my amplification on that subject in the article.  Nowadays help with setting up Skype etc. falls into the same category.  Most women now have a home internet connection and this has done much to level the playing field in my humble opinion.

My personal view is that you should not engage in long correspondence before meeting.  It is based on my personal experience.  Other people (particularly those who like writing) may have different views.  That is fine.  My opinion is it is better to get your ass on a plane and go see if the relationship is real. 

I presume you have read the “scam sites” they make pitiful reading.  Nearly all the scam listings have the same theme.  A guy tries to buy his dreams and then turns bitter when it does not work out as he planned. 

Anything you give to a woman is a gift.  She is not obligated to you because she accepts your gifts.  You do not have ANY right to demand their return.  You cannot buy a women’s love so don’t begin by trying to!  

You recommend that a guy checks out that the woman is real and has a genuine interest.  We agree on that.  Andrew and Jooky don’t share that opinion.  We have had several long discussions on the boards.  My views have changed over the years.  I still think that you should do some basic checking.  A gift is a good idea.  However going beyond that and getting someone “checked out”  by Elena’s  models (or another agency’s) “detectives” is going too far.  Akin to stalking.  If someone is not prepared to be honest with you, simply move on.  Scam obsessed people will always fail.  Beginning a bicultural relationship is a leap in the dark.  You have to be able to trust in order to succeed...


Offline MBS01

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2008, 04:59:20 PM »
Follow Up re: Leslied and Manny:
Generally I agree with what you are saying about sending money perhaps only for Internet Connection and Travel arrangements. 

My difference would be that there is an important 3rd. for the seriously minded and that of course is language training.  For most of this it would be English, but some may be from other locations too.  This can be inexpensive and certainly aids in establishing ongoing communications for both parties.

As to timelines I usually wrote WMVO style and waited around 3 or 4 months before flying off to meet.  The exception was my wife who I met after about one 1 month's writing.  Likewise I disagree with many who seek out only English Speaking ladies.  Most I wrote and met had very limited English skills and my Russian remains very basic.  Yet I managed to meet my wife of close to 5 years and communicate with her through using a dictionary of English/Russian. 

Hint to Newbie's:  A good softcover English/Russian dictionary is potentially the best gift you can leave with your new friend and is a great parting gift on that all important first visit.

Offline Olga_Mouse

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2008, 03:24:02 AM »

A guy we all know, [who shall remain nameless unless he identifies himself] recently sent some money to a girl to facilitate again an Internet connection, that girl got Skype also, they now speak on webcam every day. He visits her for the first time very soon. My wife had to argue with her on the phone to get her to accept his money for an Internet connection. She did, but it wasnt easy. She didnt want cash from some guy she had never met.


Markje?  ???
Leaving Russia is not an emigration, rather an evacuation.

Offline Manny

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2008, 04:49:55 AM »
The article is dated Manny.   Back when it was written Skype was not invented.  Maybe one woman in 20 had access to the internet at home or work.  We had only recently moved on from snail mail.  Internet cafes were the way to go then – hence my amplification on that subject in the article.  Nowadays help with setting up Skype etc. falls into the same category.  Most women now have a home internet connection and this has done much to level the playing field in my humble opinion.

I had overlooked it was first written in 2002 and had not considered changes since then in context. Certainly internet is becoming more common in homes, but as little as 3/4 years ago I seldom encountered a woman in Russia who had it. This is changing fast, now many women in Ukrainian backwaters have a net connection.

The problem with any guy sending money is if his head is screwed on by doing so. He may think he is sensible and thinking straight, as outsiders we may see he is not. I would generally only recommend a guy sends any money if it was his idea, not the womans.

Quote from: Leslied
My personal view is that you should not engage in long correspondence before meeting.  It is based on my personal experience.  Other people (particularly those who like writing) may have different views.  That is fine.  My opinion is it is better to get your ass on a plane and go see if the relationship is real. 

I wholeheartedly agree.

 
Quote from: Leslied
You recommend that a guy checks out that the woman is real and has a genuine interest.  We agree on that.  Andrew and Jooky don’t share that opinion.  We have had several long discussions on the boards. 

You and I are married, Andrew and Jooky are not.  ;D

Quote from: Leslied
My views have changed over the years.  I still think that you should do some basic checking.  A gift is a good idea.  However going beyond that and getting someone “checked out”  by Elena’s  models (or another agency’s) “detectives” is going too far.  Akin to stalking.  If someone is not prepared to be honest with you, simply move on.  Scam obsessed people will always fail.  Beginning a bicultural relationship is a leap in the dark.  You have to be able to trust in order to succeed...

I have never had cause to use a detective outfit, I could not visualise a situation [if I were single] where I would need to. I think there is a good use for a service that will do a basic phone check with a woman and save a guy some time.

A guy contacted my wife last week, and gave her three numbers and profile links of women he had encountered on Anastasiaweb [I told him about them but he wouldnt listen].

She called all three women, just to sound them out about him and suss them out generally. One said "I dont really remember the guy, have I seen his photo? When will he come here?" My wife suggested he may like some correspondence prior and maybe a three way call to break the ice. The woman refused a three way and said "I dont always answer my phone, it depends what I am doing, I have many men visiting me, when will he come?" - Pro-dater flushed out at first base.

The second woman she declared as 'brainless, too young and not serious' - The third one seemed OK, quite nice sounding, educated etc, she was very interested in a three way call and getting to know the guy better, so much so he was hooked in for a brief ice breaker straight away. I gather the guy and this woman are now communicating.

The guy, by arranging a little verification, had flushed out a pro-dater and a brainless bimbo at first base, and moved swiftly on to contact with a seemingly more suitable woman. To find this out otherwise may have taken him months and maybe even a pocket draining visit to the first one. In that circumstance, checking the women out paid off.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Chillidog

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2008, 05:34:54 PM »
I do agree with the checking out the woman, but do not feel you have to go into the expense of paying for some private eye detective, that some dating sites are now pushing but using a flower service (not affliated with the agency you write the woman) is an effective way to do this and on one occasion I did just that, I could not for the life of me tell if the woman was legit or Hairy Yuri, so I used a flower delivery w/photo and found out it was Hairy Yuri. This sending of a gift can be used as a way to show a woman you are serious about her, but also used to 'smoke out' Hairy Yuri if you are having any doubts.
 I do not buy into the sending of gifts on a whole, because I think too many men look at it as this sendin gifts will gaurantee a successful first meeting---you cannot buy love! Or look how generous I am/what a great guy I am, when what the woman really wants is to learn of the person to see for herself the mans character and heart.
I also think using an independent translator/interpreter is also a good way of checking out a woman but also a good way of advancing the relationship in a positive way. I have not used this method before, but see good merits in it.
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Offline mirror

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2008, 07:22:49 PM »
Quote
Chillidog

I do agree with the checking out the woman, but do not feel you have to go into the expense of paying for some private eye detective, that some dating sites are now pushing but using a flower service (not affliated with the agency you write the woman) is an effective way to do this and on one occasion I did just that, I could not for the life of me tell if the woman was legit or Hairy Yuri, so I used a flower delivery w/photo and found out it was Hairy Yuri. This sending of a gift can be used as a way to show a woman you are serious about her, but also used to 'smoke out' Hairy Yuri if you are having any doubts.
 

Some RW know your WM habbit to check out by using private eye detective.

I think it is not good idea for a relationship at all.For example I prefer to know everything what a man makes towards me.Why not to ask me personally about your doubts for example?Why to check? I can not understand what a reason to spend money for similar silly thing. Yes,I think it is silly.

And when a man sends me a flower I am not too happy now by knowing this WM's habbit to check out,it doesn't mean he is serious to me.It means he wants to find out ONLY I am  a scammer or not! I feel myself not comfortable with it,sorry.

My suggestion is to talk girl,to try to learn by using your own brain,to observe and you will receive all answers. But to watch after her by using private detective,to check out etc. -no no...not good idea.

Offline Rasputin

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2008, 07:50:29 PM »
This sending of a gift can be used as a way to show a woman you are serious about her, but also used to 'smoke out' Hairy Yuri if you are having any doubts.

Why? Don't you think he can find a woman willing to pose with a bouquet of photos if necessary? Yuri will have women in his life (sisters, cousins, girlfriends) and he can find a woman off the street if necessary. Then, he just finds an apartment to have the flowers delivered. It would not be too hard to dupe a gullible foreigner.
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Offline Chillidog

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2008, 11:09:02 AM »
This sending of a gift can be used as a way to show a woman you are serious about her, but also used to 'smoke out' Hairy Yuri if you are having any doubts.

Why? Don't you think he can find a woman willing to pose with a bouquet of photos if necessary? Yuri will have women in his life (sisters, cousins, girlfriends) and he can find a woman off the street if necessary. Then, he just finds an apartment to have the flowers delivered. It would not be too hard to dupe a gullible foreigner.
all I can write about is my own experience, I have sent flowers 'just once' before meeting a woman, because I agree with MIRROR that to do this before meeting her, to me does not make the man look generous it makes him look cheap, like he is trying to buy her love.
In this one and only situation, (without writing a whole novel) I had some strong suspicions, but nothing concrete, and did not want to let on in letters of these because I did not want to 'smarten Hairy Yuri up' I had her postal address and sent flowers, with email confirmation and email pictures provided by the delivery company (prior to receiving hard copies) I got my email confirmation of the delivery and the pictures of the 'true girl' who lived at this address, these pictures were absolutely nothing even remotely close to the pictures 'hairy Yuri' had been sending me,and you could tell this was this flower delivery came totally out of the blue for this girl and she had no idea who I was, or was part of any 'scammer operation', and actually 2 weeks went by in emails and 'hairy yuri' did not even acknowledge receiving flowers or thanking me for them. The girl who did recieve them was 'innocent' she was not aware of anything. obviously this "Hairy Yuri' must have just used an arbitrary address, that they had no connection with. So in my case this flower delivory was well justified. I have never had the occasion or need to use this method again, but think for 'smoking out Yuri' it can be effective.
I do not believe that a person should use this method to 'check out the truth' with every woman they communicate with. Maybe if you are not certain, just walk away and end all comunication would be the better method?
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion."

-Dalai Lama-

Offline Chillidog

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2008, 11:10:44 AM »
This sending of a gift can be used as a way to show a woman you are serious about her, but also used to 'smoke out' Hairy Yuri if you are having any doubts.

Why? Don't you think he can find a woman willing to pose with a bouquet of photos if necessary? Yuri will have women in his life (sisters, cousins, girlfriends) and he can find a woman off the street if necessary. Then, he just finds an apartment to have the flowers delivered. It would not be too hard to dupe a gullible foreigner.
but will these woman look like the pictures "hairy Yuri' is sending to you in his emails? and would you even consider writing to these woman they may all look like 'miss piggy'?
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion."

-Dalai Lama-

Offline Chillidog

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2008, 11:22:16 AM »
Quote
Chillidog

I do agree with the checking out the woman, but do not feel you have to go into the expense of paying for some private eye detective, that some dating sites are now pushing but using a flower service (not affliated with the agency you write the woman) is an effective way to do this and on one occasion I did just that, I could not for the life of me tell if the woman was legit or Hairy Yuri, so I used a flower delivery w/photo and found out it was Hairy Yuri. This sending of a gift can be used as a way to show a woman you are serious about her, but also used to 'smoke out' Hairy Yuri if you are having any doubts.
 

Some RW know your WM habbit to check out by using private eye detective.

I think it is not good idea for a relationship at all.For example I prefer to know everything what a man makes towards me.Why not to ask me personally about your doubts for example?Why to check? I can not understand what a reason to spend money for similar silly thing. Yes,I think it is silly.

And when a man sends me a flower I am not too happy now by knowing this WM's habbit to check out,it doesn't mean he is serious to me.It means he wants to find out ONLY I am  a scammer or not! I feel myself not comfortable with it,sorry.

My suggestion is to talk girl,to try to learn by using your own brain,to observe and you will receive all answers. But to watch after her by using private detective,to check out etc. -no no...not good idea.

Mirror,
I agree with you, a person should be able to tell thru their correspondence if the girl in 'real' but to ask and raise this question to the person you communicate with has draw backs.
1) if she is 'real' and 'sincere' about finding a man, asking her this question will inevitably upset her greatly and she will end her correspondence with the man (and in her defence she should), and now the man has lost a good chance at find a good woman.
2) if she is 'Hairy Yuri' she will go to great lengths to show and confirm to the man the she is honest and sincere, and in this playing on the man's hopes that she does in fact 'love' him, and increase the chance of this man being scammed

There are an over abundance of 'Hairy Yuris' on the internet or else the 'scammer' subject would not be so highly discussed. But there are also many many sincere and honest women who are using the internet to find a good man to love, sometimes it is tricky in know who is who

You are correct, that using a 'detective' at least in my eyes is just down right 'wrong' if a person is that suspicious of this woman or all women he should just walk away and also this man will always be the 'suspicious type' and if he marries he will have difficulties in not letting his suspicious nature ruin the marriage
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion."

-Dalai Lama-

Offline leslied

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2008, 11:49:09 AM »
Mirror, I am aware that your views are shared by many FSU women.  This is why I have reconsidered the advice I gave in this article which I wrote in 2002.

There is a line to be drawn on the activities you should engage in to “check out” that the woman you are writing to is real.  My guiding principle is :-

Would I be happy if  someone I had never met did this to me?

A simple hand delivered gift is NOT offensive from this point of view.  I would be perfectly content if my potential squeeze sent me a gift.  Check the address I gave is real? Huh??  Every time I buy something on the internet vendors ask me for more than this level of information.  Take a photo of me receiving a gift?  I have no problem with this either.  I did not send out 10 year old photos or photos of someone else...

Now this process cannot prove the presence of Fat Yuri (Hairy Boris).  You would have to go much further than a simple gift.  I would not be happy if my potential squeeze employed detectives to check me out. (Employment, credit reference etc, etc)  That is going too far.   It is weird.   

The women are aware of the scamming that goes on.  If a woman has a genuine interest in you there should be no problem with receiving a simple gift.  If there is a problem then quite frankly I would say Bye Bye!  There are lots of genuine women to date.  Why waste time on someone who is is not prepared to be open and honest??

NEXT!!

Offline alenika

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2008, 12:01:32 PM »
I agree with you, a person should be able to tell thru their correspondence if the girl in 'real' but to ask and raise this question to the person you communicate with has draw backs.
1) if she is 'real' and 'sincere' about finding a man, asking her this question will inevitably upset her greatly and she will end her correspondence with the man (and in her defence she should), and now the man has lost a good chance at find a good woman.
2) if she is 'Hairy Yuri' she will go to great lengths to show and confirm to the man the she is honest and sincere, and in this playing on the man's hopes that she does in fact 'love' him, and increase the chance of this man being scammed
If one doens't have bad intentions asking questions, if he is the one who respect the woman he communicates to then he'll find a way to ask the question sin the right way not to offend her.
Actually it's not necessary to ask if she is a scammer. Question about woman being scammer or no arises from some signs men get right? Then ask questions about the sign. For example woman tells she doesn't have phone and that's why cannot talk. Ask questions why she doesn't have phone, if it is common for her place, if she can speak from other phone, if it's ok for her to speak from other phone. When woman replies all this man can see also if she is sincere. And it will not be some accusing questions but questions which show the intrest which man sincerely has.

You know.. I think men have problems with trust when they don't have sincere interest in woman as a human. They only make tests for future wife vacancy. Otherwise they'll know how to talk to the woman. And isncere interest is always seen and that's why people either like you or dislike you. If you are really interesting in people you can ask anything you wish and your attitude will be seen and words will be right and nobody will be offended because of any questions.
I close eyes to see better

Offline alenika

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2008, 12:06:49 PM »
The women are aware of the scamming that goes on.  If a woman has a genuine interest in you there should be no problem with receiving a simple gift.  If there is a problem then quite frankly I would say Bye Bye!  There are lots of genuine women to date.  Why waste time on someone who is is not prepared to be open and honest??

NEXT!!
Some are aware, others - are not. If I didn't come to forums like this I wouldn't be aware about scamming. I learn a lot from the forums when read about scammers - mostly about the men who become the victims of scam.
And it's not about being open and honest if don't want to prove you are not "pig".

I did other choice - if someone has hesistations in me he has blind soul. Therefore NEXT!!
It's better to live with the really blind person than with one who has blind soul. Live and prove everything all the time because he can see nothing himself.

And .. some men even use agency to get recommendations about women they want to marry... Maybe if agency does that much then agency should marry those women, not the man?
I close eyes to see better

Offline Chillidog

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2008, 03:29:30 PM »
I agree with you, a person should be able to tell thru their correspondence if the girl in 'real' but to ask and raise this question to the person you communicate with has draw backs.
1) if she is 'real' and 'sincere' about finding a man, asking her this question will inevitably upset her greatly and she will end her correspondence with the man (and in her defence she should), and now the man has lost a good chance at find a good woman.
2) if she is 'Hairy Yuri' she will go to great lengths to show and confirm to the man the she is honest and sincere, and in this playing on the man's hopes that she does in fact 'love' him, and increase the chance of this man being scammed
If one doens't have bad intentions asking questions, if he is the one who respect the woman he communicates to then he'll find a way to ask the question sin the right way not to offend her.
Actually it's not necessary to ask if she is a scammer. Question about woman being scammer or no arises from some signs men get right? Then ask questions about the sign. For example woman tells she doesn't have phone and that's why cannot talk. Ask questions why she doesn't have phone, if it is common for her place, if she can speak from other phone, if it's ok for her to speak from other phone. When woman replies all this man can see also if she is sincere. And it will not be some accusing questions but questions which show the intrest which man sincerely has.

You know.. I think men have problems with trust when they don't have sincere interest in woman as a human. They only make tests for future wife vacancy. Otherwise they'll know how to talk to the woman. And isncere interest is always seen and that's why people either like you or dislike you. If you are really interesting in people you can ask anything you wish and your attitude will be seen and words will be right and nobody will be offended because of any questions.

Alenika,
I agree with you on asking questions, like the ones you state about not having a phone or others that are similar. In my post I should have made myself more clear. In fact the women I have visited did know and have experienced my sincere interest in them, and I also knew that they were sincere and honest in wanting to find a man, there was never any trust issues or concerns from me or from them on each person's sincerity (if there was I would never have visited them). In fact it is my very nature to trust people and for me the true and only 'test' for a future wife is spending time with her and understanding her as a person.
The situation I wrote about actually happend back at the end of 2005 beginning of 2006 when I was brand new to this experience, and really had no experience in the International dating area.
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion."

-Dalai Lama-

Offline FreeRabbit

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2012, 08:12:27 AM »
I just want to point out a valuable tool that everyone here has, and was born with: your sense for impending danger. Being born in a hospital and lived with electricity and blockbuster movie sequels all your life may have dulled it, but it's still there.

I've noticed over the years, that my positive intuition about women, i.e. "I'm not gonna get screwed this time!" or "yes! I'm gonna get screwed this time!", has occasionally been wrong...but my negative intuition, even when my reasonable mind tells me it defies the logic I see before me, has never turned out to be wrong.

Trust your fur when it stands up and tells you there's a tornado on the horizon!
We know why the wolves talk, do we not, Mr Renfield? And we know how we can make them stop.

Offline Fianchetto

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Re: The Original "Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2013, 04:54:55 PM »
I have personally sent flowers twice (two different ladies) via agencies, not to certify the ladies' veracity (that had already been done by video chat), and certainly not to "buy her love" but as a gesture intended to:

1. show her that I am delighted to have met her
2. in gratitude for the lovely time we spent in chat
3. demonstrate my sincere desire to get to know her better (I am REALLY seeking a wife, and want to show her)
4. in attempt to start the relationship on a good foot

So, have I made some relationship-killing violation of flower etiquette? ( I am not the most socially "ept" guy in the world, but certainly not completely inept either )

If so, my only defense is that my heart was in the right place, and besides, hey - it's only money - I will make more next week.

Hmmmm.... Perhaps I start an "office pool" and split the proceeds with the winner to recoup my $50.

Place your bets now - wedding bells at the altar, or smoke and ashes at the train wreck?

LOL!


 - Fianchetto
I am addicted to placebos.

I could quit, but it wouldn't matter.

Online 2tallbill

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"Tablets of Stone"
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2024, 11:12:11 AM »
There should be a nominating process to pin various threads.

FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls


 

 

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